The Birthers of a Nation

The long hunt for the new leader of the Republican Party has at last come to an end, and the winner isn't Rush Limbaugh, Mitt Romney, or even Sarah Palin, but this woman in a red T-shirt:

If you're going to lead a low-tech lynch mob, you've got to be able to get that Gilbert Gottfried screech into your voice like the Lady in Red does when she says, "I want my country back!" That's leadership for you, ever so much more forceful than poor Delaware Rep. Mike Castle, a GOP moderate (one of eight who voted for the House climate change bill), who seems to be ducking a personal Oxbow Incident by meekly asking the crowd if they'd like him to "lead" the Pledge of Allegiance. By then the crowd is already on its feet, one hand on their hearts and the other on an imaginary holster, insisting, like their dimestore-flag-waving leader, that they "don't want this flag to change!"

It's paranoid, it's deranged, and it's as American as Andrew Jackson and the rebel yell. What's different now is that the nativist right has finally had their bluff called by the landslide election of a black man as president, and their centuries-old legitimacy is in question as it never has been since Appomattox. So they are desperately projecting that self-doubt onto reality itself.

Of course, the Lady in Red couldn't scream the N-word in a townhall meeting (which, by the way, was called to discuss healthcare reform), so she screamed about his birth certificate. Karl Rove mentor Lee Atwater called this shot nearly three decades ago, when he explained how the Republican Party should parse its racism for the 20th century and beyond:

You start out in 1954 by saying, `Nigger, nigger, nigger.' By 1968 you can't say `nigger'--that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights, and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.

And now, finally, things have become so algebraic that the base goes totally into denial, refusing to see a notarized public document as it's waved right under their noses, and the whole nativist scheme falls into ridicule.

The Birthers go beyond simple conspiracy theories--they're cast members of the ongoing American denying-reality show, not unlike the folks who deny the moonlanding or the Holocaust (like James von Brunn, the octogenarian who killed a guard at the Washington, D.C., Holocaust Museum and who had earlier posted a screed entitled "WHO SENT YOU???," charging that Obama is utterly undocumented), and very much like the Creationists who insist that the Earth is but 6,000 years old, the Teabaggers who refuse to believe they must pay taxes, the 9/11 Truthers who say the government attacked the Twin Towers, and, as we might call them, the Inhofers who believe global warming is a hoax.

The word Birther itself comes trailing clouds of associative fog. It's unclear who minted the term, but for the true believers themselves, it can have a positive ring. When I first heard of Birthers I thought maybe they were subscribers to some sub-catechism about the birth of Christ or an offshoot of the anti-abortion movement--pro-life, pro-birth. Which makes sense: The Bircher, er, Birther movement is born from the same psychology that can trace social unease to a single issue--if we could only stop abortion, we could turn the clock back to Father Knows Best; if we could abolish all gun control, we could restore the eye-for-an-eye justice of the Old West; if we could only prove that Barack Obama was "born in Kenya," his presidency would go away and White Power would be restored.

It's great to dream the American Dream, and the right of an individual to pursue whatever fantasy he or she wants is what makes America so admired around the world. There's nothing wrong with dressing up in Confederate grey and re-enacting your defeat--you just can't impose such a monoculture on the rest of us.

What has been so polluting about the GOP's Southern Strategy over the past 50 years is the winking at racism by supposedly mainstream pols and pundits for short-term votes and ratings. It's the cynicism of a Liz Cheney or a Lou Dobbs doling out MSM legitimacy with each Birther encouragement that really opens a rent in the social contract. Occasionally, you might trip up such media figures with factual arguments, as Chris Matthews did this week with both an addled G. Gordon Liddy and a Republican congressman pushing a bill that would force presidential candidates (i.e., Obama in 2012) to pony up their birth certificates.

But with Birthers and others in the fantasy-based community themselves, no amount of argument or evidence will knock some sense into them. Their lives are defined in significant part by the strength of their denial. Maybe the only way to effectively respond is the way a real American hero, like Buzz Aldrin, did a few years ago when confronted by one of those crazies who insist the moonlanding was faked:

Comments (222)

1. Whatever it is the Repubs are, or are NOT doing, seems to be working!

   That's it, you've got my 30 seconds this morning!

   Posted by Happy at 07/24/2009 @ 11:18am

2. happy-You mean that the GOP wants to be viewed as a party of paranoid loons?Why?

   Posted by i'm nobody at 07/24/2009 @ 11:24am

3. "Whatever it is the Repubs are, or are NOT doing, seems to be working! "---Posted by Happy at 07/24/2009 @ 11:18am

   Yes...working for Democrats.

   Moderate Repubs either getting harassed by the Fringe (above) or pushed out of the Party (Specter).

   Lowest Republican Party identification since 1983.

   Congressional "leaders" like Eric Cantor who attack stimulus money...then demand it for "pork projects" in his state.

   And of the leading contenders for 2012, you have a "hiker" who likes Argentinian babes....an ex-beauty queen who can't remember if she reads TV Guide or National Review...a rich guy who couldn't buy a GOP primary....and an ex-Speaker who can't decide if a Supreme Court nominee is a "racist"..."that's too strong"...or a "racialist".

   Posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 11:32am

4. BTW, check out the G. Gordon Liddy "Hardball" video.

   Some say it's sad and pathetic...I don't think he deserves that kind of sympathy.

   Posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 11:45am

5. So wait; if I'm reading this article correctly, cutting taxes = 'nigger'?

   There are good ways to take on Republicans, but trying to twist legitimate policy differences as underhanded racism just exacerbates the problems we are trying to solve.

   Posted by liberalcorner at 07/24/2009 @ 11:48am

6. Posted by liberalcorner at 07/24/2009 @ 11:48am

   I believe she was QUOTING Lee Atwater....a REPUBLICAN strategist.

   Posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 12:40pm

7. What did the Lady in Red actually say? What was her point?

   Posted by pjcasey at 07/24/2009 @ 12:41pm

8. Looks like this Leslie Savan SCREED is the "flip side"! Instead of a woman in Red, its a feminist in leftwing drag!

   Posted by BigPasture at 07/24/2009 @ 12:58pm

9. This post was so satisfying - the Lady in Red & her supporters just kinda make you want to punch somebody, and in the end (if you watch the little video) Buzz Aldrin - punches somebody. I guess Barack Obama can't punch a "birther" but maybe he'd get a little smile if he read & watched this post.

   Posted by cdlepthien at 07/24/2009 @ 1:15pm

10. "I know you are, but what am I? I know you are, but what am I?"---Posted by BigPasture at 07/24/2009 @ 12:58pm

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 1:16pm

11. posted by BigPasture 07/24/2009 @12:58pm

    I didn't get it. Usually the phrase "a _____ in _____ drag" used as a metaphor would mean something like "a wolf in sheep's clothing" (drag meaning women's clothes on a guy). Anyway the general meaning would be something dressed as its opposite. So I am having a hard time understanding the phrase "a feminist in leftwing drag". Were you under the impression that most feminists are right wing? I suppose maybe in your circles they are.

    Just curious.

    Posted by cdlepthien at 07/24/2009 @ 1:30pm

12. Posted by cdlepthien at 07/24/2009 @ 1:30pm

    cdle, I'm sorry. You're obviously mistaking RIO/Big Posture for somebody who makes sense.

    He thinks the Soviet Union still exists and California has a $42 TRILLION debt- (and yes, "comanche" is his other nick)

    "We know about california and its $42,000,000,000,000. debt caused by its socialist style entitlements!"---Posted by comancheamerican at 03/30/2009 @ 11:01pm

    How Much Does It Cost? posted by Robert Dreyfuss on 03/30/2009 @ 3:52pm

    "Soviets will be BIG contributors on this one replentant with thousands of their imbedded agents..uhhhh...followers!"--------Posted by comancheamerican at 03/30/2009 @ 11:26pm

    No to War, No to NATO posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel on 03/30/2009 @ 8:27pm

    Posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 1:35pm

13. posted by Mask at 07/24/2009 @ 1:35pm

    Mask, I was being sarcastic. Anyway, are you saying that this guy goes under multiple names? I already have comancheamerican on my ignore list.

    Posted by cdlepthien at 07/24/2009 @ 1:47pm

14. Mask, I see you already answered that last question. I'd better get my nose out of this computer & do something productive.

    Posted by cdlepthien at 07/24/2009 @ 1:52pm

15. Shouting in someone's face that he is a coward and a liar would qualify as fighting words to me, Ilya, especially when the best evidence is that the gentleman is neither.

    Posted by cka2nd at 07/24/2009 @ 4:33pm

16. Whether you like it or not, those are the undisputed Facts. But, whatever: it wouldn't make ANY difference anyway.

    Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 07/24/2009 @ 3:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Facts? Sounds more like the ravings of the mentally unsound. You provided NO undisputed facts or any facts for that matter.

    Faked moon landing? So by that reasoning is the entire space program a fraud? Maybe there really is no space station or sattelites, its all a conspiracy. They sure have done a good job, with the thousands of people invovled to all keep quiet for 50yrs, to keep the lie propagated. Amazing.

    Do you believe every conspiracy theory? Probably, since you appear by all acounts to be a raving lunatic.

    Posted by Extraneous at 07/24/2009 @ 4:38pm

17. Southern Poverty Law Center calls on CNN to remove Lou Dobbs from the air over "birther" comments

    Lou Dobbs has nice company in his bigoted birther lies:

    "As he has in several other instances, Mr. Dobbs, in taking up the birthers' claims, is adopting an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory that originated on the radical racist right. As Gawker.com has reported, this particular conspiracy theory was first developed by an open anti-Semite and circulated by right-wing extremists who cannot accept the fact that a black man has been elected president of the United States. Among its adherents was neo-Nazi James von Brunn, the alleged murderer of a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., this June. Von Brunn had helped spread the birthers' claims on the Internet and attacked the "dishonest & conspiratorial Media" for not taking them up."

    This is not the first time Mr. Dobbs has pushed racist conspiracy theories or defamatory falsehoods about immigrants...his utterly false claim that 7,000 new cases of leprosy had appeared in the United States in a recent three-year period, due at least in part to immigrants. (The real number, according to official statistics, was about 400. Mr. Dobbs took his spurious information from the late right-wing extremist, Madeleine Cosman.) "

    http://tinyurl.com/lngfk6

    Jon Stewart also calls out the birthers in his incisive and hilarious report:

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 5:25pm

18. The moon landing faked?

    Gee, then I guess my father -- an engineer in rocket testing -- went to work for 8-10 hours a day for 15 years (and almost lost his life during one test) to create a film set?

    I'm in Hollywood now and believe me it doesn't take 15 years to make a movie.

    But my father worked in rocket engine testing from the 1950s (X-10, X-15) right on past the moon landings, along with thousands of other workers in the space program to create an awesome reality that apparently was too much for tiny minds.

    I was there every night he came home from work in New Jersey, tired, but often exhilerated.

    My father is proud to have been a part of that revolutionary step for mankind, and I'm proud of him -- whereas the relatives of the moon landing conspiracy freaks have to remind them to take their crazy pills.

    By the way, Buzz Aldrin daily risked his life for his country in the military, then as a test pilot, before becoming an astronaut -- anyone who calls him a coward, or my father a fake, deserves to get a shot in the nose.

    But how else can those morons get attention? Certainly not for actual acheivements that changed the world, like Buzz Aldrin's or my father's.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 5:40pm

19. Article II of our Constitution has a lot to say about how a would-be President is born. "Natural born Citizen" status requires not only birth on U.S. soil but also birth to parents who are both U.S. citizens by birth or naturalization. This unity of jus soli (soil) and jus sanguinis (descent) in the child at the time of birth assures that the child is born with sole allegiance (obligation of fidelity and obedience to government in consideration for protection that government gives (U.S. v. Kuhn, 49 F.Supp.407, 414 (D.C.N.Y)) and loyalty to the United States and that no other nation can lay any claim to the child's (later an adult) allegiance and loyalty. Indeed, under such birth circumstances, no other nation can legally or morally demand any military or political obligations from that person. The child, as he/she grows, will also have a better chance of not psychologically struggling with conflicted allegiance and loyalty to any other nation.

    Posted by MIAMIMAN at 07/24/2009 @ 5:54pm

20. Posted by MIAMIMAN at 07/24/2009 @ 5:54pm

    Could you provide the citation in the constitution for "jus sanguinis" claim. I keep a pocket constitution on my desk, and can't find that, my suspicion is that it is not there.

    Just 1 sentence in Article 2, sec 1 - "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of the President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five years, and been fourteen years a Resident within the United States."

    Posted by Extraneous at 07/24/2009 @ 6:07pm

21. Umm, no crazy person: only one of the parents need be a U.S. citizen for the child to be a citizen.

    And the child need not be born in the United States, for that matter (McCain in born in Panama, for one.)

    That's a real nifty paranoid rant about "allegiance" and what not: but the United States also allows dual citizenship with some nations: England and Canada, are two, I believe, so apparently that's not much of an official, actual worry.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 6:09pm

22. Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 07/24/2009 @ 3:25pm |

    "TheNation (of idiots) speaks!"

    And Ilya is their messenger!

    "Anyone with an IQ above George Bush's - i.e. 85 -"

    i.e. not Ilya.

    "Knows for a fact the moon landing was faked."

    So do 100% of people wearing tinfoil hats (you should switch to lead: stronger neck muscles and better protection from incident gamma rays).

    You've got to admit that blowing up the Challenger was a dramatic moment in hoaxing.

    "Watch the film that the two "myth-busting" bubbleheads berate (without ANY proofs whatsoever) and it will be evident to you."

    ...that Ilya is a hungry, hungry troll.

    "BTW, Buzz Aldrin SHOULD have gone to PRISON for ASSAULT in the first degree."

    As should you; I'll ask your caps key if it wants to press charges.

    "Whether you like it or not, those are the undisputed Facts. But, whatever: it wouldn't make ANY difference anyway."

    Au contraire, mon frere...without your posts, we'd have to pay to fertilize our lawns.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/24/2009 @ 6:09pm

23. "Under the American system, any person born within the United States (including the overseas territories of Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands) and subject to its jurisdiction is automatically granted U.S. citizenship, [1] as are many (though not all) children born to American citizens overseas."

    There is an asymmetry in the way children born overseas to unmarried parents, only one of whom is a U.S. citizen, are treated. Children born abroad to unmarried American mothers are automatically considered natural-born citizens, as long as the mother has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year, anytime prior to the birth. But children born to American fathers unmarried to the children's non-American mothers are not considered natural-born citizens (or citizens at all) unless the father takes several actions:

    According to the Constitution of the United States only natural born citizens are eligible to serve as President of the United States or as Vice President. No attempt is made, however, to define what is meant by natural born -- specifically if there is any distinction to be made between persons whose claim to citizenship is based on jus soli (birthplace) and those whose claim is based on jus sanguinis (parentage). As a result, controversies have erupted over the eligibility of a number of candidates for the office. These questions arise particularly when a candidate is an American citizen by jus sanguinis birthright, but was born outside of the territory of the United States.

    A person who is a citizen by birthright but not born on American soil has also been legally considered to be natural born, as in the case of 2008 Republican Presidential candidate John McCain, who was born in Panama.

    http://en.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 6:18pm

24. U.S. Code:

    TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401Prev | Next § 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 6:25pm

25. When I want predictions about the future, the last person I'll go to is someone who wasn't even able to correctly predict the past.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 7:54pm

26. What? No moon-faked-landing frothings to the woman whose father worked 15 years in the space program?

    Dad is retired and living in Florida, but even at 85 he'd be happy to poke you in the snout, if he can drive to you before dark.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/24/2009 @ 7:59pm

27. <i>Posted by snowball777 at 07/24/2009 @ 6:09pm </i>

    A masterpiece, sir; I tip my cap.

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/24/2009 @ 9:26pm

28. The ONLY reason the republicans get ANY mention anymore is because of the democrats pathetic attempts at policy.

    They are ALL politicians first and foremost.

    Follow the money.

    Posted by bleedingheart at 07/24/2009 @ 9:40pm

29. Well, if the President is the First Citizen of the United States, these creepy birthers loathe the idea that they are far down the list of Americans compared to him. There is a solution. Deport them, if someone has the stomach to take them. What was the name of that island in the Indian Ocean that is sinking, again?

    Posted by ciotog17 at 07/24/2009 @ 10:07pm

30. I'm glad Buzz socked that assh*le.

    Imagine, calling the guy who sat on top of a rocket loaded with tons of explosive fuel a coward.

    As far as the neoconspiracy theorist kool-aid induced crackpots...

    It's just more unsightly desperation.

    Is there much difference between this bullsh*t and the crap they slung during the campaign; making allusions that Obama was a terrorist?

    Pathetic.

    Posted by koroviev at 07/24/2009 @ 10:26pm

31. "BTW, Buzz Aldrin SHOULD have gone to PRISON for ASSAULT in the first degree." As should you; I'll ask your caps key if it wants to press charges.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/24/2009 @ 6:09pm

    Nothing like a good laugh to start out the weekend.....

    Posted by twillie at 07/24/2009 @ 10:44pm

32. Do you know the BEST part of this Story??

    Head Birthist Lou Dobbs was born in - wait for it - MEXICO!!! Yes, that's right - rabid anti-immigration freak Dobbs was born in Delicias, Chihuaha!

    (Go see HIS birth certificate on Shorts and Pants.)

    And his Pappy was a propane salesman, just like Hank Hill! Of King of the Hill? It's too delicious (or should I say, Delicias?) for words!

    It's almost like all those Family Values Redumbicans who are diddling Argentinians, staff aides, hookers, "fellow travelers" in airports, male interns - and don't recognize the hypocrisy!

    Thanks, Lou, for the Laugh of the Day!

    Posted by sjduskin at 07/25/2009 @ 01:34am

33. I think this comment sums up the birthers perfectly:

    "I agree that, overall, the craziness is not because Obama is black. Nevertheless, the birther nonsense is absolutely because he is black. Its a classic case of resorting to psychological euphemism. The fringe wingnuts are thinking they know what real America looks like. It looks like ‘Leave it to Beaver.' And maybe on the ear front, Obama shares some characteristics with Eddie, but he doesn't look anything lke a real American. Accordingly, as I read on a Ta-Nehisis Coates blog recently, quoting Kate Stone, "There must be some mistake." Unsavory black and white Yankees couldn't have defeated Texas Confederates at Vicksburg, and this pretender cannot possibly be an American. Unable to admit to their racism, they repress and misdirect it, but it still looks and walks like a duck. -- Russ Bailey"

    http://tinyurl.com/mlmfyk

    On one point I disagree: I believe some of the birthers are well aware of their racism, and using the "birther" movement to cloak their bigotry in a (relatively) more acceptable format.

    Posted by judybrowni at 07/25/2009 @ 02:39am

34. Don't let the birther fool you. This is the same mentality that declared blacks were not human. It's a form of possession, imho. It's a sickness, but dangerous for ethnics. Charlotte Iserbyt wrote a book called "The Dumbing Down of America", in which she proposes that the government or corporations have been deliberately dumbing down the schools and teaching for some time now. This is done to "normalize" and destroy critical thinking. If you add drugs and chemicals in the foods we eat, it's not long before we get a zombie culture that the corporations can mold to their whims.

    Ignorance is the Devils playground and irrational racism is ignorance. Thus, you have a wide population of zombie racists that all you need to do is cast a spell, an incantation or hypnotic suggestion. This birther crap is just that. The walking dead are subject to this conjuring from people like Rush Limbaugh. They get their cues from Fox Noise, and right wing, dark magic.

    It's very dangerous because these mindless zoids will act upon it just like a black man can be targeted by a mob mentality just because someone asserts he transgressed upon one of the sacred children of the corn. It's the reason unarmed, innocent black men catch 40 rounds of bullets from cops possessed by these spells. You know the scenario. But really, the right wing knows it's only way to win elections is to steal them through subterfuge, coupled with blatant race baiting, hatred politics. It's been going on for decades. Now the entire Republican party and right wing zealots are ramping up a dangerous mood in the country. The puppet masters behind this are the mafia banks who control the corporations. There are tons of Manchurian, mind controlled zoids out there possessed and aimed at ethnics.

    Posted by Opinionated at 07/25/2009 @ 04:57am

35. these luddite morons are precisely the type of mean spirited ignoramuses who burned witches in the old days and imprisoned scientists for telling the truth.

    and who lynched who knows how many blacks for who knows why...

    i consider them a primary example of homo inferior - the rapture dreaming pack of angry, marching morons for whom reality is too harsh and trying to understand the world as it is is just too hard as well as disturbing.

    ironically their stupidity drags down the entire country, the human race. at a time when we need to understand and take into account verifiable reality, homo superior must tolerate homo inferior, which is ironic...

    in that homo superior's tolerance of homo inferior is an inherent aspect of homo superior's superiority just as homo inferior's murderous rage directed at his/her intellectual/moral superiors is an inherent and defining condition of homo inferior...

    something of a catch 22.

    Posted by dexter666 at 07/25/2009 @ 08:53am

36. We all know if John McCain had won the election it wouldn't be an issue of where he was born. But, Obama is a Democrat and a black man to boot. So it's killing these people to have a black President. They have to discredit him anyway they can. It's gutter politics at it's absolute worst. These are the same people who accused Clinton of having murdered Vince Foster and then covered it up in the 90's and made his terms in office a living hell. They have become a staple of the paranoid Republican Party. And why they are eventually going to self-destruct if they don't start distancing themselves from these fringe lunatics. Because they are coming off to normal people as being refuges from the loony bin. Sick people who spend their days and nights sucking conspiracies out of their thumbs. It was why a lot of us quit voting Republican in the 80's because of the radical extremist element that was taking them over. About all the Republican Party is doing in not repudiating these people is to prove to those of us who left we were right in leaving. I will not vote for any Republican these days because of that extremist element that has the party by the b....! If a Republican candidate wants elected. They cater to this element.

    Posted by ganddw42 at 07/25/2009 @ 09:25am

37. OBAMA'S LESSON ON RACE

    Obama loses when he plays a Jessie Jackson. What would matter most to Blacks is not what he says but what he does--better in the context of general poverty. The radical right wants to deconstruct Obama and place upon him, variously, a vaudevillian Black face and an anti-white label. It's most outspoken henchmen--Limbaugh, Gingrich, Dick and Liz Cheney, Buchanan, Sessions are not interested in facts or truth. They simply don't like the fact that a Blackman is President, though the people have spoken. They figure they score best by stirring up raw premordial negative emotions. Ironically known racists are now shouting racism, wildly, against others. They accuse Obama of being a racist, although the optics shows otherwise. Look at white dominance at Obama's White House. They question Obama's American origin, ignoring his birth registry in Hawaii. They imply he is unfit to be President no matter how hard he works. They paint Obama as a reckless spender ignoring the fact that he is correcting the errors of the previous Republican administration. Then Dick Cheney said that "deficit don't matter." Cheney and his daughter are re-fighting the war they lost under Bush some of whose policies Obama is up-holding. Buchanan volubly asserts the "ineliable rights of white men,"deliberately ignoring the contributions of all others in America's nation-building. Theirs is a losing model: It ignores and maginalizes the new democratic coalition of young people, the educated, women, independents, unions, Blacks, Latinos and other minorities. Dr. Sam

    Posted by drsam8 at 07/25/2009 @ 09:32am

38. How long until one of these 'birthers' has a slip of their forked tongue and says what they really mean, "He can't be our president...because...he's black"?

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/25/2009 @ 09:49am

39. I love the birthers. while they prattle on and on and yes, on, Obama sets about to change the country for the better.

    I'm sorry that the issue of the ironed crease in his jeans was dropped so prematurely. That and not health care should be the talking point.

    Posted by emile duBois at 07/25/2009 @ 10:02am

40. I have always been looking for a metaphor to describe how I feel about the slew of right wing neo-tards who post here.

    I have always mused at how they bare a striking resemblance to extremist right to lifers, moon landing denier's, global warming denier's, anti-evolution nut's and now "Birthers".

    And when a true American hero like Buzz Aldrin, the second man to ever set foot on the moon, hit that dumbass with a nice straight right, I was elated and relieved. I feek much better now.

    Thanks Buzz!

    Maybe we need to go the nearest gym! LOL!

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 10:21am

41. feek=feel in the galactic common tongue...

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 10:25am

42. The "Birthers" are a bunch of demented and probably racist weirdos on par with "The Minutemen" and the Flat Earth Society. It is amazing to me how American society coddles all these various Village Idiot movements and associations.

    Posted by syfriendly at 07/25/2009 @ 10:30am

43. Posted by ganddw42 at 07/25/2009 @ 09:25am

    Posted by drsam8 at 07/25/2009 @ 09:32am

    I don't know about anyone else, but I usually bypass posts that are not broken up into a paragraph or two.

    Those one paragraph novels always strike me as being the rant of a lunatic..

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 10:35am

44. The "Birthers" are a bunch of demented and probably racist weirdos Posted by syfriendly at 07/25/2009 @ 10:30am

    Probably? "Birthers" racist? Naw! Ya think??

    I thought I saw Larry and Happy holding up their hands there.

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 10:42am

45. Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 07/25/2009 @ 10:25am

    Ilya! I found a couple of the marbles that fell out of your head a few posts ago.

    Would you like them sent back to you Fed-Ex or UPS?

    The quicker the better, I would say..

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 10:52am

46. it's called the market place of ideas. it was always so. check de Toqueville

    Posted by emile duBois at 07/25/2009 @ 10:55am

47. posted by syfriendly at 07/25/2009 @ 10:30pm

    Not to mention some ridiculously large percentage of Americans who think that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, though they acknowledge that it is, in fact, round.

    Posted by cdlepthien at 07/25/2009 @ 11:37am

48. Not to mention some ridiculously large percentage of Americans who think that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, though they acknowledge that it is, in fact, round.

    Posted by cdlepthien at 07/25/2009 @ 11:37am

    Amazing isn't it? I have found a few miscreants that say that you can tell from the satellite pictures from space that the Earth is obviously a flat disc.

    And yet they deny space travel. I'm not kidding!

    Listen to the Alan Colme's show on XM or Sirius Radio sometime. Or peruse the internet.

    Now wonder our population is the laughing stock of the world. It is embarrassing..

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 11:55am

49. Since when were we the butt of a joke and dersion?

    Since about 30 years ago when Reagan was serving his time as the Devil incarnate. 30 plus years of Repug policies have brought this Nation to it's knees.

    Free Trade and unfettered rogue capitalism along with the destruction of public education has led us to this degraded state.

    And now these same people in the form of Goulman Sachs are strip mining the last tidbits of American treasure before they take their booty and run for their lives to the secure enclaves that untold Wealth can provide.

    We have been had...

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 1:30pm

50. And meanwhile a bunch of wimpy "liberals" sit there at their keyboards and type.

    Jesus H Christ! The house is on fire! And the inhabitants are sitting in the living room debating who started it...

    Buffoons. We deserve what we get. Like the fools we are.

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 1:38pm

51. Savan seems troubled by the term "birther". Probably because that's not the term, it's "birfer". You east coasters try to Anglicize pronunciations and the beauty of the word gets lost in translation!

    Posted by TexasFilly at 07/25/2009 @ 2:35pm

52. We have been had...

    Posted by chaoszen at 07/25/2009 @ 1:30pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    You bet we've been had...conservative dems and liberal dems without a backbone, take a long look in the mirror and congratulate yourselves for your crowning achievements.

    Posted by jarshadow at 07/25/2009 @ 3:55pm

53. Do you guys have any idea what goes on in countries that truly have the levels of racism that you claim exists here in America?

    My fiance emigrated from a country where the elections really are decided by race, and usually accompanied by riots and murders. She emigrated TO this horrible country.

    What is it that you need from these people? To stop breathing? Any chance you get, you use it portray millions of people as bloodthirsty nazis-in-waiting. Real tribal violence, the kind that you couldn't help tripping over on your way to the diversity rally in say, Africa, the Mideast, Eastern Europe, India, the Caribbean is inexplicably sparse in this land of the racist zombies, so you have to engage in creative interpretation.

    Well, what can you possibly do with such people? The only moral thing to do is destroy them. Maybe with an enlightened health care system you could correctly diagnose terminal political illnesses and "treat" them.

    One question for you righteous white protectors of the blacks. When the n-word is spoken on the streets of our nation as a preface to gunfire, what do you suppose the ratio is on pronunciation, the variation that ends with a vowel, to the one with an "er"? 1,000 to 1? 100,000 to 1?

    Now, if a person actually gave a fuck about the persons on receiving end of both the epithet and the hot lead, I doubt that they would be outraged about the 1 and mum about the much larger number.

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 4:08pm

54. "The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative. Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro's friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political "football game" that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives."

    Malcolm X

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 4:10pm

55. "What's different now is that the nativist right has finally had their bluff called by the landslide election of a black man as president..."

    What does that mean, bluff called?

    It conjures the image of a scruffy caricature from Darkest Alabama of yesteryear proclaiming, (bluffing I guess), "If the scalliwags elect a n*@#* to the presuhdency, we shall wave tiny american flags at them and challenge the authenticity of his documentation, and there shall be tea parties throughout the land!"

    Yeah, these people are really dangerous. Can you guys just draw up a map of the regions that you would like to depopulate.

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 4:46pm

56. Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 4:46pm | Posted by syfriendly at 07/25/2009 @ 10:30am |

    I'm currently reading "Idiot America: How Stupidity Became a Virtue in the Land of the Free", by Charles P. Pierce...really funny stuff.

    I needed some antidote to the venomous rantings of the Red State demonoids that frequent these parts which would help me see that they're vocal, but relatively harmless, in their lunacy and TeaParty(tm)-ing.

    People who believe a dinosaur qualifies as a 'Behemoth' and could be fitted with a saddle can't be all that dangerous.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/25/2009 @ 5:29pm

57. Regardless, the only real Winners of any US election since at least the early 1800's, are the robber baron class.

    Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 07/24/2009 @ 7:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    like 1932?

    Posted by dexter666 at 07/25/2009 @ 6:11pm

58. Posted by snowball777 at 07/25/2009 @ 5:29pm

    Anti-intellectualism is unfortunately, very American. And ethnocentrisms of all kinds are anti-intellectual.

    Walk down 125th Street in Harlem. Among the outdoor book vendors, I bet you don't find any Hughes, Hurston, or Baldwin, what you will find is second-rate "race" lit: racially steretyped novel-length cliches for black people with titles like "Da Bitch is Back." (actual title)

    People who see the world through the 2D Viewmaster of race, stamped w/ approval by the elitist hunky vanguard, live sad lives of intellectual stasis.

    The Dems have become a collection of competing tribalist entities with a complex divide-the-spoils system that will inevitably splinter. I don't even know what moral reason the repubs would have for not casting themselves as an Anglo supremacy party. Why not? The melting pot is gone. Then wait for this or that grouping to break from the dems as arguments over what group is more entitled to what turn sour.

    I understand that traditional white anglos are the "uncool" that white leftists sometimes glimpse in the mirror darkly and then lay crying about, but seriously.

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 6:46pm

59. Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 6:46pm |

    "Anti-intellectualism is unfortunately, very American."

    As book-burnin'-lady taught us, we've indeed tested positive for a retro-viral affliction, of this I do not dispute.

    "And ethnocentrisms of all kinds are anti-intellectual."

    True...ugly across the entire spectrum, though fascinating, as evidenced by digital music sales and torrent bandwidth in a variety of media formats, some more productive than others; my lagrange point has me hovering midway between Deep Cover and Black Star's Re:Definition.

    "Walk down 125th Street in Harlem. Among the outdoor book vendors, I bet you don't find any Hughes, Hurston, or Baldwin,..."

    I was told a tree grows near there, but if you say Langston ain't tryin' to hear about hangin out on no stoop, I'll write a native condolence, son.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/25/2009 @ 8:04pm

60. Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 6:46pm |

    "People who see the world through the 2D Viewmaster of race, stamped w/ approval by the elitist hunky vanguard, live sad lives of intellectual stasis."

    To trade Hughes for the Hughleys seems retrograde, yes.

    "The Dems have become a collection of competing tribalist entities with a complex divide-the-spoils system that will inevitably splinter."

    It's a pendulum, and when the distribution of income swings to one side, strange bedfellows find each other to be ports in a storm again.

    "I don't even know what moral reason the repubs would have for not casting themselves as an Anglo supremacy party. Why not? The melting pot is gone. Then wait for this or that grouping to break from the dems as arguments over what group is more entitled to what turn sour."

    You don't think they remember Nixon getting beat by Kennedy? Their shining, racist star...beat by that poser playboy (who turned out to be more of a leader than we thought)?

    "I understand that traditional white anglos are the 'uncool' that white leftists sometimes glimpse in the mirror darkly and then lay crying about, but seriously."

    Or across the family reunion picnic table, but the things I see in the mirror are no more who I am than are strangers in a sense...I share more with a caged bird than them, most days.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/25/2009 @ 8:10pm

61. Can we ever fashion a uniquely american intellectualism, where ethnic pride is acceptable but not required, where people are not pigeon-holed by race, where eclecticism is not the exclusive province of cosmo whites, where racial authenticity can sync with crimes against humanity, but never crimes against ethnic aesthetics?

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 11:47pm

62. correction: not one where racial authenticity can sync w/ crimes against humanity, but never crimes against ethnic aesthetics.

    Posted by gangpapist at 07/26/2009 @ 12:02am

63. OK, so two things should be reasonable apparent:

    1) The birthers are wrong...and make really dumb arguments.

    2) The argument "birther clearly just means 'racist in disguise'" is also dumb. And has never been warranted in any meaningful fashion. Except to say "but aren't all birthers just racists?" No, and stating something definitively doesn't make it true.

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 12:08am

64. Chris Mathews had Congressman, John Campbell on his show last week and asked him if he though Obama was an American citizen and it was like drawing an eyetooth to get the guy to say yes.

    This whole thing isn't about truth or concerns about the next election or anything other than ginning up the wackos.

    Campbell tried to duck the question because he knows there's hay to be made from this crap.

    Posted by koroviev at 07/26/2009 @ 01:49am

65. Why the outrage over Obama's credentials? We just spent 8 years with a Nazi from the Skull and Bones academy who opened up the portals of hell and let the legions of demons feast upon us for fun and profit.

    It amazes me how the Anglo shows its discomfort with the much needed discussion on race as if to deny the obvious. Perhaps he/she travels in a carpool lane while blacks have to sit, stuck in stagnant traffic.

    Oh, what a luxury to ponder the lack of progress of others, while whizzing by in your own, private lanes, without obstruction.

    Isn't it counterproductive to fixate on race? Wouldn't you be better off if you just ignored it and simply worked harder to blend in to our society? Things will go more smoothly for you. Just try it.

    The reality is that even if blacks click their brains forward, would the Anglos do the same? But the broader question is, can they?

    My conclusion is that they cannot. Maybe a handful are willing to, but far too many just can't. Since their numbers are so much greater, it's extremely difficult for blacks to pick up but so much speed as you try to run through terrain littered with unmapped, live mines.

    I've stepped on so many of these mines, that I feel like I'm wheelchair bound, with no momentum to speak of.

    Obama, fleet of foot, graceful and agile -- is navigating the treacherous landscape I could never get to. Bush had a private jet. His feet never hit the ground, just like he avoided contact during the Viet Nam war.

    The birthers represent the cluster bombs of mindless, vengeful ignorance. But they are kinetic.

    Obama may or may not be successful in avoiding these mines. He's getting carpet bombed by a deeply ingrained racism that has amputated the best of us because the Devil knows war oh so well.

    Posted by Opinionated at 07/26/2009 @ 05:17am

66. Posted by gangpapist at 07/25/2009 @ 11:47pm |

    "Can we ever fashion a uniquely american intellectualism, where ethnic pride is acceptable but not required, where people are not pigeon-holed by race, where eclecticism is not the exclusive province of cosmo whites, where racial authenticity can sync with crimes against humanity, but never crimes against ethnic aesthetics?"

    Certainly...my wife and I discuss it all the time, but we'll have to get us 'politan crackers to give up on being politically correct; making everything taboo means losing one of the primary means of conveying culture from which ethnic pride may spring (for better or worse).

    Politically correct discussion of intimate topics like race and culture is like trying to have a relationship without ever having a fight.

    We feel the secret is appreciating different cultures, as they are, while respecting that your impressions of same can never add up to a whole person, so you'd better talk to people instead of making assumptions, even if it means making people blush and offering apologies upon occasion.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 07:27am

67. Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 12:08am |

    "1) The birthers are wrong...and make really dumb arguments."

    D'ac.

    "2) The argument "birther clearly just means 'racist in disguise'" is also dumb. And has never been warranted in any meaningful fashion. Except to say "but aren't all birthers just racists?" No, and stating something definitively doesn't make it true."

    How about a telling statistical correlation? I suppose some of them could be just 'plain nuts', or like Larry, anti-marxist/leftist/socialist/quick-gimme-an-ist, and not oriented (pun!) in a specific fashion against Obama.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 08:05am

68. Wish you wouldn't lump those who doubt the official story of 9/11 in with the racist loons. To believe that the government lied in order to wage an oil war isn't really that far a stretch, is it?

    Posted by pzoslov at 07/26/2009 @ 08:12am

69. The Cooling of a Nation....and indisputable evidence of Global Warming for the devout, on Sundays and everyday....take this to the bank, solid gold stuff:

    http://www.accuweather.com/mt-news-

    blogs.asp?blog=weathermatrix&partner=&

    pgUrl=/mtweb/content/weathermatrix/archives

    /2009/07 1000_low_temp_records_set_this_july.asp

    Saturday, July 25, 2009 12:06 AM

    3,000 Low Temp Records Set This July!

    UPDATE: It's not just the surface land temps -- Blog reader Tim points out "Water temps at Frying Pan Shoals (off Cape Fear) fell to 78 degrees a few days ago; NDBC historical data shows this occurs only 0.3% of the time in July!" Here's a look at the weekly departure from normal sea-surface temperatures....

    Posted by Happy at 07/26/2009 @ 10:34am

70. Wish you wouldn't lump those who doubt the official story of 9/11 in with the racist loons. To believe that the government lied in order to wage an oil war isn't really that far a stretch, is it?

    Posted by pzoslov at 07/26/2009 @ 08:12am | ignore this person | warn this person

    i've come to discount "false flag" notions and the sinister stuff. the "let it happen" theories even seem hard to swallow, as the history comes out over time.

    perhaps "criminal negligence", but one would have to apply that to almost every endeavor those incompetent ideologues touched...

    still believe in some kind of sinister kennedy conspiracy. nothing about the official story makes much sense.

    Posted by dexter666 at 07/26/2009 @ 11:45am

71. <i>Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 08:05am </i>

    Precisely what statistical correlation are you citing? The regions of the country from which most birthers come? I feel like an accusation like the one you're making needs a lot more foundation than this.

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 4:11pm

72. Leslie Savan provides several solid points for consideration. However well stated, the major flaw in her Op-Ed is that she, and the "Tabloid" reaching MSM/Press/Cable News networks, insist on providing a platform for the Birther fruitcakes and their ilk. By doing so, she...and the others...give legitimacy to crackpot ideas. The warped causes, promoted by the Birthers, Palin, Liz Cheney, Dobbs, Limbaugh, and, sadly, many others, would die a natural death if we could just learn to ignore them. I'm not holding my breath.

    On another point, Ms. Savan places the 9-11 Truth movement alongside the Birthers, Holocaust deniers, and Moon Landing skeptics. Obviously, she has not taken the time to inform herself of the growing body of highly-legitimate scientific data...and a 9-11 Commission Report filled with errors and omissions...that refute the off-handed "conspiracy theory" dismissal of those who have applied intelligent and credible methods placing considerable doubt on the "accepted" mainstream belief of events leading up to, during and after, that horrendous day. As starters, she might avail herself of a recent report that provides irrefutable evidence of high tech explosive/pyrotechnic materials (thermite) intermingled with dust collected from areas around Ground Zero. Also, Ms. Savan could improve her level of understanding by reading peer-reviewed mainstream articles, that support and build to these new findings. Links to these reports may be found at: www.ae911truth.org/ which provides a massive array of background information on 9-11.

    Thank you.

    Posted by porzelH at 07/26/2009 @ 4:43pm

73. Precisely what statistical correlation are you citing? The regions of the country from which most birthers come? I feel like an accusation like the one you're making needs a lot more foundation than this. Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 4:11pm |

    An inverse relationship between birther belief strength and Wechsler performance, if you will.

    Perhaps an overly broad generation, but true for the limited sample set of birthers that have been allowed camera time, in my experience.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 5:22pm

74. The "fake moon landing" myth is easily disproven by any ham radio operator who listened in on apollo in the sixties. Back then there was no encryption, anyone who could (and did) fabricate a parabolic dish antenna (or any number of other LARGE homemade types could hear the astronouts DIRECTLY. If you moved your dish away from the moon, you lost the signal. Kind of hard to fake that, Unless you think NASA landed a repeater on the moon and put one in orbit around it just to fake the radio transmissions for a few hams!

    Posted by n5pgo at 07/26/2009 @ 6:45pm

75. <i>Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 5:22pm </i>

    This isn't nearly good enough. Intelligence or lack thereof, even if your statistical claim is true, doesn't prove racism. Your argument linking birthers to racism still lacks any coherent warrant.

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 7:13pm

76. Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 7:13pm |

    Can we agree that racism is less than intelligent behavior?

    Can we agree that the Venn diagram of racists, stupid folk, and birthers is not completely empty?

    I've copped to the generalization being overly broad; there are certainly some non-racists, uneducated loons who believe this tripe, but the few people I've seen, on TV, espousing this particular form of tinfoil-hattery, seem to have all been fairly good candidates for that triangle shaped piece of overlap in the center.

    Do you claim it is beyond the scope of racists to couch their beliefs in coded form, for the benefit of wider audience? Consider certain campaign speeches during Reagan's run in '80 and where he made those speeches from under the guise of discussing `state's rights'.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 8:36pm

77. As easy as they accept this "6,000 year Earth History from Creation" these guys reject moon landing and so many other scientifically proven events. Where have these Reps gotten their education? Did they ever take Science and Math? How did they get to pass the Critical Thinking levels required in English?

    "Give me my country back" is a short word expression to their inability to accept change. Their vision of America - and the world - is stagnant and full of stereotypes. They are only open to ideas that will reinforce this rebel vision of them in where: "Everybody hates and envies America, therefore we must reject everything from the outside." (including France, for example).

    This is very dangerous for our health as a nation because it will drive us sooner or later to internal and external confrontations with other nations and cultures and persons. I hold responsible for this people like Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly and the real stupid Lou Dobbs. Only one phrase can define them: SS-like criminals playing with people passing on their propaganda.

    We can have all sorts of discrepancies with the people from the right, but going into cultural issues of supremacy of our culture, our nation, our race over the others including legal immigrants already Americans....this is just too much!

    Posted by Frank42 at 07/26/2009 @ 8:40pm

78. In the context that people like Alan Keyes or Michael Steele would chime in and support birthers, I guess it attempts to throw a wrench in the racism claim. However, from the context that Obama, who is 1/2 black, is the one being scrutinized, then the claim does hold some merit. Many, self loathing blacks support white, racist strategies. It doesn't make the strategy void of a racially motivated component. Keyes and Steele are ringers. They're exploited. They are clowns.

    It's more from a right wing, "stra-te-ger-y", execution of politics designed to rally those of a particular ilk. It plays into a lynch mob mentality that blacks are all too familiar with. Example: Just start a lie that Obama raped a white woman from a small, hick town, and it doesn't take much to have the towns men (and women) rallying to go after Obama to exact vengeance on that "rogue" Negro.

    We'll teach "them" a lesson for stepping out of their "place". We'll use him to set an "example". It's all the same tactic. Try as you might, you can never erase the true sense of victimization blacks feel because of this phenomenon. And, try as you might, you'll never convince me that racism is a "black fixation" that holds people of color back from achievement.

    The barrier to equality is more likely an aggressive imposition of institutional racism that consists of a plethora of tried and true strategies from overt to subliminal. Some can overcome that depending on their resources and support systems. Too many never have a chance unless exceptionally gifted in some form. No doubt there are negative forces "aimed" at black people -- black men in particular. Their legitimacy is constantly scrutinized and the birther movement is yet another ploy to discredit another, feared, black man.

    Posted by Opinionated at 07/26/2009 @ 9:18pm

79. <i>Posted by snowball777 at 07/26/2009 @ 8:36pm </i>

    First off, and I know I may draw some flak for this...I don't believe Reagan was a racist. Some of what he did in that area disturbs me, but I don't believe that he was a racist individual. Second, your argument is logically backwards (I mean that literally, not in the sense of "neanderthal")

    <<Can we agree that racism is less than intelligent behavior? >>

    Many racists are not intelligent. It doesn't remotely follow that many non-intelligent people are racists.

    Are there some birthers who are racists? Probably. However, I think a lot of it is just speculation. I'd rather not level that kind of accusation with a whole lot more than mere guesswork.

    I guess that's really my problem here. The harsher the accusation being leveled, the higher the burden of proof. When you're accusing someone (or a whole generalized group) of being a racist, you're making a pretty harsh accusation, and therefore the burden is on you to back it up. I don't think you've done anything to justify any conclusion beyond "probably, at least a couple of birthers are racist." I guess that conclusion means something...but not much.

    And on that note...

    <i>Posted by Opinionated at 07/26/2009 @ 9:18pm </i>

    Do you have anything other than theory taped around giant assertions?

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 9:32pm

80. Also, while we're on the topic, I saw a curious Nation poll, which asked "What's the most obvious indication that America still has a way to go on race?" One of the choices was "the racially charged questioning of Sotomayor."

    My question is...what racially-charged questioning of Sotomayor? Unless the Nation editors are arguing that the "wise Latina" criticisms were meant to prevent a Latina from getting on the Court (a really dumb argument), I don't know what possible support there is for this.

    Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 9:35pm

81. Let's face it. The KKK took off their sheets, and went to college. Some became lawyers and many went into politics. They're probably top heavy in the Republican party, but they're also in the Democratic party. They are in finance, banking and corporations.

    The agenda is dominance and exploitation. I think they still have an agenda to reverse the clock to a time when blacks were either in slavery again, or targeted for execution. Admittedly, I feel we're regressing rapidly towards conflict. I also feel the media is a tool of this machine and used to ramp up the hate.

    The aim is to run interference to protect the theft of our money by the banks and to distract us from the motives of a global, one world agenda that will imprison free thought, free movement, etc. They are aimed at killing America through a million cuts, and it's working. Not only blacks, but whites are slipping through the cracks while immigrants of all persuasions are replacing us in the workplace.

    It's no accident. But the powers that be knows how venomous and powerful racism is against blacks, who've been scapegoated for societal ills since slavery.

    Of course blacks would feel this encroachment more. But it's now getting tight for the white community. So, it's more than likely a military styled strategy to inflame age old conflicts between blacks and whites.

    It's obvious the Government, controlled by the Banks and corporations, is making a substantial move against freedoms. With diminishing resources, they'll press and instigate until the powder keg erupts.

    Then comes Martial law, mass viruses, fake terrorist attacks and a complete and total crackdown on liberty. The Patriot Act already shows you the plan.

    The media is stroking the match, ready to throw it on the first flame.

    Posted by Opinionated at 07/26/2009 @ 9:50pm

82. Posted by Thrawn at 07/26/2009 @ 9:32pm |

    I actually agree on Reagan not being a personal racist; his was marriage of Ayers-like convenience which allowed the GOP to grab back the reins even after Nixon, a real racist, dropped the ball.

    I also agree that I shouldn't level a charge at all birthers, not even those with provably low intellectual capacity, but I meant to level a charge at the representative cases that were presented to me by the media, whom I believe are both of those and racists to boot.

    Call it an instinct about the way they pronounce Ken-ya, as if in disbelief, when stating Obama's fathers origins, in a cadence all too familiar for anyone who knows racists, call it speculation if you must, but that 3-way intersection isn't an empty set.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgfRUtMVu0o

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/27/2009 @ 06:44am

83. Leave it to the progressives to play the race card.

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 07:08am

84. SNOWBALL:

    What exactly did Richard Nixon do or say that causes you to say he was a racist?

    Posted by william.harry13 at 07/27/2009 @ 07:23am

85. "There are times when an abortion is necessary. I know that: when you have a black and a white," he said, adding that,"rape was also such a situation."

    Posted by AlexWaverlyNumber1Section1 at 07/27/2009 @ 07:41am

86. Posted by AlexWaverlyNumber1Section1 at 07/27/2009 @ 07:41am |

    That's one...may be able to find the audio archive link for the MP3 of that one...he wasn't being very considered as it was recorded; it was 'obvious' that an abortion is required.

    Leave it to the progressives to play the race card. Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 07:08am |

    Just calling you on it.

    Posted by snowball777 at 07/27/2009 @ 07:45am

87. From the article

    Of course, the Lady in Red couldn't scream the N-word in a townhall meeting (which, by the way, was called to discuss healthcare reform), so she screamed about his birth certificate.

    Just calling you on it. Posted by snowball777

    Just calling you on it

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 07:50am

88. The conspiracy and the cover-up are evident in plain sight for all who wish to gaze upon The Revealed Truth.

    THE CLINTONS savagely killed VINCE FOSTER adding some necrophlia and canibalistic touches to their grimly evil handiwork because...

    ...VINCE FOSTER had uncovered and secured then social worker BARACK HUSEIN OBAMA'S real birth certificate from Kenya, as well as his diploma from the Indonesian madras that was signed in blood by UBL.

    Thus, VINCE FOSTER was the bottle-neck that stood in the way of the continued, post-Clintonoid communist hegemony over the highest reaches of the US government through an arc leading from Clinton to Gore* to Obama...to the gates of commie hell, enhanced library budgets to stimulate uncompromising commie thinking, solar panels to sap America's will to fight in the middle eaat's sandboxes, and health care cards to pulverize the hapless population into submission to the hell on earth of vegan diets devised by government paper-pushers.

    * Gore's ascension to the throne of the newly (de-)formed Commie States & Socialist Republics of Amerika was only halted by the uber-manly poet warrior who had faught so valiently in hand-to-hand combat with Ho Chi Minh on the wing of his National Guard fighter jet as he flew simulated patrols over endangered Galveston: yes, that's our George W GoldBrickingMetrosexualLoser!!!

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 08:31am

89. Posted by Opinionated at 07/26/2009 @ 9:50pm

    RESE?...is that you???

    Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 08:38am

90. That's what I thought.

    Posted by william.harry13 at 07/27/2009 @ 08:39am

91. A correction:

    Leave it to the JIM CROW RIGHTISTS AND THEIR INHERITORS to play the race card OR THE "GAYS ARE OUT OF HAND" CARD, OR THE LATINO/A CARD ...

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 07:08am

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 09:12am

92. I never posted that

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 09:18am

93. --abell12ct at 07/27@7:08am

    Just wondering, ABELL, if you have a moment to put down whatever version of the "Defense of Marriage" referendum that you've been studying & that Karl Rove targetted for your district, to answer a couple of questions.

    Just wondering if you find the passage below, composed in February by your fellow traveller JOAMMA to be an instance of--how did you say it?--"playing the race card". Or, let us guess, JOMAMMA is just telling it staright (just as when JOMAMA insisted very indignantly that he "saw" the non-existent video of Oliver North "warning" Al Gore in '87 about OBL, a fabrication North was very quick to douse). And if you do find it to be a case of playing the race card, will you confront JO about it? You know, 'cuz you so detest that hideous pratice of (drum roll) "playing the race card".

    JOMAMMA: They "enter the country or live there and breed like crazy...Europe is hitting 25% Islamic soon, and US is hitting 35% Hispanic..they are draining the social system of cash and resources while putting nothing back in of equal or greater values...plus being illiterate in their own language, the added pressure of the host country to "help" them is over bearing...add to this the fact that the liberals in the host country actually sue in court to give the invaders(un resticted and illegal immigrants) more rights than the host citizens, like push 1 for English and native language voting ballots, in state tuition...learn from the Muslims in Europe and the Mexicans in the US how to invaded, destroy and take over a more sophisticated and wealthy society using their own wealth, productivity, generosity, and the local liberals against the locals in their own country, combined with the gigantic birth rates...victory with out a shot being fired.."

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 09:24am

94. Leave it to the progressives to play the race card.

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 07:08am

    In the rightwing universe -- where the bear does not shit in the woods, but VINCE FOSTER does right before Hillary assassinates him -- it kind of works in this way....

    You hang up a sign that says "Whites Only" and that writ is in turn enforced by the local trigger-happy sherrif and..and, hey, what's the big deal anyway, huh? "White's Only" is just a statement comemmerating, as Pat Buchanan recently alleged, only white people died at Gettysberg. Just celebreting our accomplishments here in our little space. Get over it.

    However, anyone who questions or tries to remove that sign? That's different, yes, that is a very, very different case. That constitutes, in ABELL's smart phrase, "progressives (who yearn) to play the race card". Right, ABELL?

    Case closed.

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 09:56am

95. Go talk to KKK member senator Byrd

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:17am

96. Also you assume a lot Phil. I am not for the "Defense of Marriage Act" That is just plain discrimination. But to Progressives any questioning of Obama is considered racist. That is wrong

    Case closed.

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:20am

97. "I am not for the "Defense of Marriage Act" That is just plain discrimination."

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:20am

    Good for you! You did not take The Rover's bait.

    Not that one certain US party does not keep trying, though, from one decade to the next, to lay out the bait for the BIG PASTURE-JOMAMMARIES-CRAPPY set; your seedy and deranged fellow CroMag travellors on the right. Whether that party is carrying on about "State's Rights", fleets of "Welfare Queens in Cadillacs", weekend rapist passes doled out personally by the guv, Silent Majorities (contrast with "Loud Minorities"), Jesse Helm's "White Hands" or playing that tenacious "D" for marriage, the bait is brazenly laid where the CroMags can find and grunt excitedly over it. But all just to unite the US populace in greater ecumen, of course...

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 10:30am

98. Ummm ok. One more for the ignore list

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:37am

99. No evidence exists for this claim although it would be child's play to prove if generally true:

    "But to Progressives any questioning of Obama is considered racist..."

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:20am

    ...So let's do some cosmetic surgery and get the wording into the spectrum of being a beautiful undisupted truth:

    "But to RIGHTWING AMERICA-HATER ANTISOCIAL any questioning of MICHAEL STEELE is considered racist AS ANTI'S ENDLESS VAPID COMMENTARIES ON THE TOPIC ATTEST, ALTHOUGH WRITING STUPIDLY ABOUT RACE IS OFTEN JUST ANTI'S EXCUSE TO DWELL ON HOW MUCH HE DESIRES, DOGGY-LIKE, TO BUTT-SNIFF WOMEN OF COLOR..."

    Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:20am

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 10:38am

100. Phil, you must give abell the credit he deserves...

     he is NOT a "fundey/evangey Christian" conservative-

     "I've never read the bible and believe it to be just an old book with fairy tales in it. I'll stick with Darwin on this issue."----Posted by abell12ct at 09/29/2008 @ 09:37am---Why Vote No? posted by Christopher Hayes on 09/28/2008 @ 6:53pm

     Nor one who believes that "Fox is fair and balanced"--

     "Either we have MSNBC (the current mouthpiece for this administration) or Fox (the mouthpiece for the last administration.) The days of true journalism are dead."----Posted by abell12ct at 03/26/2009 @ 07:22am-----Zombie Media Still Fighting the Last Gotcha War posted by Leslie Savan on 03/25/2009 @ 5:21p

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 10:50am

101. uh, phil,

     larry's wife is black.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/27/2009 @ 10:59am

102. Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 10:38am

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/27/2009 @ 10:59am

     Yeah, again, Phil...you're jumping the gun to ONE "right-wing" stereotype.

     There are more than one....heheh

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 11:06am

103. Posted by frosty zoom at 07/27/2009 @ 10:59am

     Moreover, following the weird rightwing penchant for internet exhibitionism, ANTI-SOCIAL has said that he has always had a stiffy for women of color. Wonder what this meant back in his ostensible 1960s junkets through 'Nam and, one supposes, Thailand.

     Thus, above, I astutely phrased the matter as follows: "ALTHOUGH WRITING STUPIDLY ABOUT RACE IS OFTEN JUST ANTI'S EXCUSE TO DWELL ON HOW MUCH HE DESIRES, DOGGY-LIKE, TO BUTT-SNIFF WOMEN OF COLOR..."

     Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 11:16am

104. "BIRTHERS!", A Movie by New Line Cinema that explores the depths of human depravity and extremeism! "BIRTHERS!", A film by John Carpenter that will take you on a roller coaster ride through the darkest, deepest black waters of the human psyche! "BIRTHERS!", an experience you will never forget as you sit on the edge of your seat! Trembling with anticipation as you prepare to leave the theatre. "Birthers!", Coming Soon To A Theatre Near You! Don't Miss It!

     Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 11:20am

105. Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 10:50am

     MASK,

     Point is well-taken that ABELL may not be as egregiously batshit crazy nor as owlshit dumb as the flagging, lice-laden legions of his fellow travellors...but notice how the whole matter of commenting on JOMAMMA's outburst was entirely glossed over by ABELL, despite an explcit call for commentary.

     One would think that ABELL would fall over himself trying to distance himself from JOMAMMA's sickening tirade which is 200 proof prejudicial (Mel) Gibsonian Helmsism.

     One would think...

     Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 11:22am

106. You are the one who incorrectly connected me to Jomamma's screed. One would think you would be falling over yourself to apologize.

     I'll wait....

     Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 11:43am

107. Obama's mother was an American citizen.

     Therefore, wherever he was born, he still is an American citizen by birthright.

     So why is anyone talking about him not being an American citizen?

     What am I missing here?

     Posted by ficheye at 07/27/2009 @ 11:44am

108. Obama's mother was an American citizen. Therefore, wherever he was born, he still is an American citizen by birthright.

     Posted by ficheye

     I don't believe that is correct. One must be born in the United states or its territories to be eligible to become President.

     Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 11:51am

109. But to Progressives any questioning of Obama is considered racist. That is wrong Case closed. Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 10:20am |

     For the record, I'm only impuning the well-debunked, throughly idiotic questioning.

     If you all want to waggle fingers at him for coddling Goldman, being opaque, or running up some deficits, be my guest.

     Posted by snowball777 at 07/27/2009 @ 11:53am

110. One would think that ABELL would fall over himself trying to distance himself from JOMAMMA's sickening tirade which is 200 proof prejudicial (Mel) Gibsonian Helmsism. One would think... Posted by PhilMcCrevice

     Oh and thank you for proving my point that some progressives believe that anyone who criticizes Obama must be a racist.

     Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 11:53am

111. throughly: adj

     thoroughly transparent

     Posted by snowball777 at 07/27/2009 @ 12:09pm

112. So... am I to assume from this piece that it's somehow news that there are delusional, infantile citizens at large in the United States? I was operating under the belief that the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 had already abundantly established that.

     But her comic waving of some "birth certificate" papers as evidence of her claim to in some way be a legitimate owner of the country must have caused a few chuckles out on the Native American reservations!

     Posted by lumenpro at 07/27/2009 @ 12:18pm

113. Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 11:20am

     Wish Don La Fontaine was still alive...

     "In a world...where racial politics no longer works for the Republican Party....and chaos rules the Right-wing Land....one group has taken upon itself to fight the good fight against an usurper radical Marxist President who wasn't even born in their country...

     (Cue C. Thomas Howell---"WOLVERINES!!!!")"

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 12:42pm

114. Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/27/2009 @ 11:22am

     Sure...of course it's also true that THE most famous "Birther"...

     shot up a Holocaust Museum.

     Odd to see anybody still wanting to "hang out" with that sort.

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 12:44pm

115. Didn't Native Americans come from Europe across the land bridge up by the Bering Sea? The "I was here first" mentality sounds kinda silly. Now hold on. For the record I don't support the killing of Indians or Settlers. On the last census when it asked about race or ethnicity I asked a question: How far back do you want me to go. I mean if Humans came from the African plains, aren't we all African Americans?

     Posted by abell12ct at 07/27/2009 @ 12:46pm

116. I think the Lady in Red's speech has to be regarded as a symptom of the disconnect between ordinary Americans and their government. They no longer feel that the government or the mainstream political parties represent their interests or those of the country. When you outsource their jobs overseas, lower wages, and will not provide a decedent social safety net, you are going to get reactions like her demonstration. "Promote the general welfare and provide for the common defense" of Americans, and you won't see such outbursts.

     Posted by pjcasey at 07/27/2009 @ 12:49pm

117. BTW....

     Anybody ever seen Ronald Reagan's birth certificate?...the original now, none of your Liberal Media photo-copies!!!

     heheh

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 12:55pm

118. Yes, I agree it does sound kind of silly..... as long as you're a member of the class that benefits from the conquering of the prior inhabitants. And the Native American people's trek is alleged to have originated in Asia across the Bering.

     The extension of the premise to the origins of homo sapiens is entirely accurate, as demonstrated by the roughly 98% shared genetics of all humans presently in existence.

     Posted by lumenpro at 07/27/2009 @ 1:11pm

119. "Birthers!"...In a World, where people are born, comes a new definition of citizenship! "Birthers!", a twisted tale of citizenship that will hollow your brain and make you wonder if "Anyone" is a citizen! "Birthers!", a torrid tale of a Black Man born in the pseudo state of Hawaii to mixed parents! "Birthers!" A Constitutional morass of lies, deceit, distortions and whitey's angst! "Birthers!" A story that could only be written in the U.S.A.!

     Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 2:08pm

120. Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 12:42pm

     Thank's, I missed the lead in, "In A World."

     My question is: Is Lou Dobbs a CNN News Anchor a citizen? I haven't seen his Birth Certificate!

     I have seen mine however. And the Los Angeles County copy I have says "Certificate of Live Birth", just like Obama's! In fact every Birth Certificate I know of that is not a Hospital issued Certificate says "Certificated of Live Birth".

     Imagine that! I must be from Kenya.

     Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 2:16pm

121. Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 2:16pm

     Told ya....and I'll bet that Reagan wasn't born in Tampico, Illinois. I'll bet it was Tampico, MEXICO...and he was here illegally!!!!

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 3:00pm

122. Republican Congressmen Run from the question, "Do you believe President Obama was born in the United States?"

     Both very funny and sad:

     http://tinyurl.com/ny27u6

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 3:45pm

123. Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 3:45pm

     It's the dilemma the GOP is in...can't dive head first into the base's nuttiness....but can't seem to dismiss it or face a bitchslap at the next "town hall meeting" and some guy threatening them in the primaries.

     Almost sad......

     almost...heheh

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 3:54pm

124. lol....I thought these people disappered after the smear tactic didn't work...Moon landing faked...lol...thank the almighty Spaghetti Monster that lives on the moon for keeping these people entertaining our news sources...Britney must be taking vacation....

     Posted by MplsStyme at 07/27/2009 @ 4:27pm

125. House To Consider 'Counter-Birther' Resolution Noting Obama's Hawaiian Birth

     "The House of Representatives is poised to consider legislation that will flush out any Obama "birther" conspiracy theorists in Congress.

     Rep. Neil Abercrombie, (D-Hawaii), has introduced a resolution "Recognizing and celebrating the 50th Anniversary of the entry of Hawaii into the Union as the 50th State." It's one of the typical non-controversial obligatory matters that so often show up on the congressional agenda.

     Only in this case, the implications of the resolution are much further reaching. That's because, as part of the 456-word resolution, Abercrombie is including the following line: "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii..."

     http://tinyurl.com/nymc83

     I'm praying to comedy heaven that this happens. It's always fun to see Republican politicians caught in a trap of their own hypocrisy while pandering to the wack job contingent of their base.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 4:29pm

126. Posted by chaoszen at 07/27/2009 @ 2:16pm

     Told ya....and I'll bet that Reagan wasn't born in Tampico, Illinois. I'll bet it was Tampico, MEXICO...and he was here illegally!!!!

     Posted by Mask at 07/27/2009 @ 3:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Well....I do remember hearing some "theorists" remark as to his dark features....LOL

     Bottom line: if the growth wing of the Repubs is the birthers, it's not a good outlook for them.

     Posted by schnellerheinz at 07/27/2009 @ 4:56pm

127. I think Romney had it in for Tim Russert (even while I let some Mormons baptise me).

     Posted by TharonChandler at 07/27/2009 @ 5:04pm

128. "But with Birthers and others in the fantasy-based community themselves, no amount of argument or evidence will knock some sense into them. "

     To what "evidence" are you referring? While this is not an issue I have followed with any intensity, my understanding is that Barack Obama's birth was recorded with the authorities in Hawaii something like six weeks or so after his birth. And his mother had recently been in Kenya. Furthermore, there are many (Black) people in Nairobi who can indicate the specific wing of the hospital where they are certain Barack Obama was born. I suppose they are all racists too, eh?

     I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that Barack Obama was born in either Kenya or Hawaii. There simply isn't sufficient evidence to indicate either one or the other. With that said, he was issued a Birth Certificate from the State of Hawaii, which states he was born there, albeit based solely on his mother's word. While that Birth Certificate perhaps shouldn't have been issued as it was, without Barack Obama's mother providing some evidentiary record of her son's having been born in Hawaii, the Birth Certificate never-the-less was issued, and so barring absolute, conclusive evidence its issuance was fraudulent, we have to take Barack Obama's Birth Certificate at face value.

     What so-called "Birthers" do not understand is that one needn't prove a Birth Certificate is valid. Its validity is taken as a given. The "Birthers" need to prove it isn't valid, and they apparently can not. That doesn't mean they're wrong in their belief he was born in Kenya, however. Its one of those Presidential mysteries we'll probably never be certain about, much like James Buchanan's alleged homosexuality, or why Vince Foster's body was moved after his death.

     Posted by KevinRiley at 07/27/2009 @ 6:15pm

129. "The Politico informs us that the birthers are giving the GOP "headaches." Like I said last week, I don't see why fringe crazies like should worry too much about fringe crazies making them look like fringe crazies, and what isn't crazy about the GOP nowadays?

     ...The only reason the birthers might cause serious problems for the GOP is that the birthers are such obvious rubes.

     Apart from that, though, what will probably end up happening is that the GOP bigwigs will keep up with the doubletalk until a more exciting and ever so slightly more plausible nutty conspiracy theory comes along that the whole moron gang can cheerfully get behind and bray about endlessly, all family troubles in the past buried and forgotten..."

     Yup, that sounds about right (extreme right, that is.)

     http://tinyurl.com/l4qpfa

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 6:22pm

130. "Can we agree that racism is less than intelligent behavior?"

     How is it even "behavior" at all?

     I think most astute observers are well aware that there would exist a much larger body of academic work supporting the contentions of those who, for example, believe that persons of European descent are, on average, substantially more intelligent than persons of sub-Saharan African descent, if it weren't for the fact that the social conformity & ideological tabus of the day make any work in that direction a form of career suicide. The mere fact that the dominant culture exhibits the intellectual equivalent of a monkey flinging its own feces at a rival, whenever any person expresses an opinion about racial issues which is outside the boundaries of orthodox discourse, does not actually validate the stereotype of all such persons being toothless rednecks in rural Mississippi, who are much enamored with sexual congress with livestock and their closest female relations. I know that many liberals wish it were so, but it is not.

     Just as many ignorant Klansman-types took great pride in knowing they held an innately superior social station as compared to (particularly Southern) Blacks, so too do many contemporary American White liberals, replete with post-graduate degrees and six-figure incomes (and usually, the disproportionately advantageous socio-economic background that allowed them to achieve such a station in life), take enormous pride in their superiority to those awful, tobacco-smoking, tea-bagging (so to speak), GOP-voting, working class Whites in "fly-over country." Remember, it isn't bigotry, as long as your contempt isn't explicitly based on race, sexuality, etc. On second thought, do you direct such contempt at even explicitly ignorant, working class Blacks? Hmmm.

     Posted by KevinRiley at 07/27/2009 @ 6:53pm

131. BREAKING: House just passed H.Res 593, which says "the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii." It passed 378-0, with 55 not voting. Michelle Bachman, who earlier tried to block the resolution, voted "aye."

     So birthers, no Congresspeople crazy enough to go along with your craziness, officially, not even the most crazy Republicans (Michelle Bachman, cough, cough.)

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 6:57pm

132. Birthers "refuse to see"? -- Lets make that: Proofers "refuse to show". (real birth certificate, as opposed to certificate of live birth -- never close up enough, on TV, to identify or study.)

     I'm sure the point has been made above, forcefully, repeatedly, authoritatively.

     It remains to be pointed out that proofers are pathological liars, supporters of black flag operations if the means justifies ends that are 'good for the Jews,' like the total hush-up of the Syrian connection to Deal, New Jersey (New Deal, get it?)(and the 911 antrax, but no one brings that up, either).

     I would say it is obvious, also, that this flap about Louie Gates and cop Crowley's mamma has been staged as part of a larger strategy to heat up race tension to displace tension arising from justified hatred of Jews who do the AIPAC "what's yours is ours" infocrat routine, with Rosenbaum-Dwek using the "everybody does it" defense for treason; make that a kidney wrap with and balls to the face from BRUNO.

     I don't mind generalizing from this smearing insult above -- probably extended mentally to 911 Truthers -- since it is clear they hear only Michael Jackson singing "I'll Be There", looking deep into little Barak Hussein's eyes. sigh.

     I'll tell you, we've got G-d on our side now.

     Posted by jones at 07/27/2009 @ 7:14pm

133. Posted by KevinRiley at 07/27/2009 @ 6:53pm |

     I detest ignorance, regardless of color, and whatever-ism, whenever I see it, and try to keep myself from doing it, but you should read my post above about political correctness before launching into a tirade about how I'm limiting the terms of debate.

     Posted by snowball777 at 07/27/2009 @ 7:32pm

134. Here we go again, KevinRiley hasn't seen "the evidence" of Obama's birth in Hawaii.

     Sigh. KevinRiley also hasn't seen evidence of the nose on his face.

     (I don't believe Riley and the birthers can possibly be this stupid; they're throwing up mud in hope they won't be called on their racism.)

     But for the one millionth time, factcheck.org has the facts, which they've checked (and rechecked.)

     http://tinyurl.com/6n9zka

     Including:

     "The director of Hawaii's Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31,(2008) that Obama was born in Honolulu."

     "The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate..."

     "Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday ..."

     "Fukino said she has "personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

     Evidence on factcheck.org includes one of the two birth announcements printed in the local papers in 1961 (and yessssss, there are hard copies, original newspapers bound into annuals, of these announcements.)

     In the end, factcheck can't resist some snark (and who can blame them?): "Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday."

     "We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A."

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 7:35pm

135. I'll tell you, we've got G-d on our side now.

     Posted by jones at 07/27/2009 @ 7:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     If this is whom God is; if this is the way he works, you can have him.

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/27/2009 @ 7:37pm

136. Yeah, mine says "Certificate of Live Birth" also (for the County of Los Angeles)....wouldn't it be something if on the certificates for Newt, Rush, Billo, et.al. it says, "Certificate of Dead Birth?"

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/27/2009 @ 8:02pm

137. Nice company you birthers keep: Domestic terrorism

     "The root of the "forged Obama birth certificate" idea is that Obama was created as part of a SATANIC Jewish-Communist conspiracy to take over the United States..."

     "...the "Birther" conspiracy theory is based in apocalyptic Christian conspiracy narratives claiming that an antichrist figure will soon arise to lead an evil, bloody, tyrannical 'New World Order' police state."

     "...The thrust is an attempt to de-legitimate the federal government. Such conspiricism often leads to veiled or even blatant threats against federal government officials, and one purveyor of Christian apocalyptic anti-government conspiracy theory with high-level connections in the Pentagon and Congress (who claims Senator Lindsay Graham as a "point man") recently issued a veiled threat against the life of Barack Obama."

     "...Tens of millions of Americans are intimately familiar with interwoven New World Order / Christian apocalyptic end-time narratives, which have been preached from megachurch pulpits, by Texas megachurch pastor John Hagee and other prominent evangelists.... GodTV, headquartered in Jerusalem, claims its broadcasts can reach four hundred million people worldwide."

     "Under the rubric of a religious narrative, clad in thinly coded "Biblical prophecy" form, opponents of the current presidential administration are able to undercut and demonize Barack Obama, associating the president with absolute evil."

     "During the Clinton Administration, such NWO demonizing played a substantial, and some would say primary, role in motivating those American citizens who formed independent militias and even carried out acts of domestic and anti-government terrorism."

     http://tinyurl.com/lxyzl8

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 8:48pm

138. Well, jarshadow, there does in fact appear to be a difference between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth", or there wouldn't be a question. The original document, signed and certified, could simply be produced, examined, and installed under krieg lights in the Smithsonian, heheheh?? and all could bow down. So why?

     The word games, such as played on the U.S. House of Representatives to subsume predication on wording recognizing Obama as "born in the U.S.A" (really true of the Boss-- remember "Moon Over Hoboken"?)-- whisking something under your eyes, then whisking it away..next frame will tell you what you say, and the third next will tell you what to call it, .. and silly silly you if you don't belierve...are refutations in themselves. Remember, if you demand proof from the proofers, they'll spit on you. Balls to the face of the Nation, ladyjane.

     It's too late for proofers to prove anything now, anyway, whatever proof they come up with, it could all be backfilled as a PR stunt.

     No, this presidency is not legitimate; neither was the '08 election, and all that "wooing of the Jews" by Obama on issues never voted on. NO VOTE ON SUPPORT OF ISRAEL HAS EVER BEEN TAKEN IN THE UNITED STATES, AND IT IS A LIE TO SAY THERE IS DEMOCRATIC APPROVAL OF THIS GOVERNMENT'S POLICY TOWARD THE ZIONIST ENTITY. IF IT ATTACKS SYRIA ON THE PRETEXT OF KILLING BIO-CHEMICAL LAB WORKERS, LIKE THEY DID IN '07, LYING ABOUT N. KOREA BUILDING NUKES THERE, EVERY JEWISH ORGANIZATION AND OFFICIAL WILL BECOME IPSO FACTO PRIMA FACIE ENEMIES OF THE STATE, SUBJECT TO ARREST, DETENTION ON SUSPICION OF SEDITION AND EXPULSION, IF GUILTY. LET THEM GO TO ISRAEL.

     Posted by jones at 07/27/2009 @ 9:15pm

139. And they crawl out of the woodwork, tin foil hats intact.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 9:19pm

140. What a surprise: a birther is not only racist, he's an anti-semite!

     And a crazy racist, anti-semite, bigoty bigot stupid nutball, to boot.

     What a surprise.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 9:29pm

141. the woodwork won't have them

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/27/2009 @ 9:30pm

142. Uncle Joe Biden as an asset? Well, uncle Joe's always truthful on his mind. That's, if (big IF) the Russians are sober they better take Joe's words than Obama's about reset.

     ---------

     Monday, July 27, 2009 White House Defends Biden as 'Asset' After Controversy Over Russia Remarks Vice President Biden stirred controversy when he suggested that Russia would cooperate with the United States because the country is in a state of sharp decline.

     Posted by HelenDAO at 07/27/2009 @ 9:40pm

143. Also anti-Catholic. Sotomayor would make 6 out of 9 members of the other off shore old world old war old religion front, along with international Jewry aka West Bank Likud settlers-for-Emanuel. The Sandinistas have hooked up with the Catholics in Nicaragua to impose 100% ban on abortions of all kinds. Pragmatic progressives, eh wot. We've got worse here.

     Catholics, Jews and homos rule the news

     Truthers, Birthers and Teabag Twitters God I need a Baby Sitter.

     kirk out U R lulz 2

     Posted by jones at 07/27/2009 @ 9:43pm

144. Wow! I'm always amazed at those proud of their ignorance, glorying in hatred, showing off the point in their head.

     I'm just happy I don't have to live in their heads, or thankfully, in their America.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/27/2009 @ 10:11pm

145. No, this presidency is not legitimate; neither was the '08 election.

     Posted by jones at 07/27/2009 @ 9:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Sorry, didn't see Shrub's Certificate of Live Birth, thus 2000 election wasn't legitimate.

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/27/2009 @ 10:21pm

146. It's too bad the author included those who believe that the events of 911 were a false flag operation with the other list of "conspiracy" theorists. Evidence of the false flag operation of 9/11 can be found in many places, and has been researched by many scholars and others who are not "nuts". See David Ray Griffin's several books, and/or several research papers by Professor Steven E. Jones, and/or papers by Dr. Frank Legge, and/or papers by Kevin Ryan, all on the subject. Anyone who believes the U.S. Government's shifting stor(ies) has not really looked closely at the facts available, and indeed, is him/herself a "conspiracy nut", believing that a man in cave in Afghanistan and others with box cutters conspired to cause the events of that fateful day, despite all the evidence to the contrary. The Nation, and indeed, most lefty news sources, have decided that the only time G.W. Bush's Government revealed the actual truth during his reign was about the events of 9/11, but lied about everything else. Unfortunate for us all.

     Posted by nicksoter at 07/27/2009 @ 11:00pm

147. this "birther" movement lacks the underlying common sense in questioning Barack Obama about where he was born:

     does anyone alive ever know for sure where they were born? my furthest memory goes back to 5, maybe 6 years old. barack has shown a birth certificate proving he was born in Hawaii. It was a state when he was born. the only people who know for sure where he was born are his mother and anyone who witnessed the birth.

     i'll give what i think is an illustrative example. my mother was born on march 14th. she needed to get her birth certificate for prove her birthday for the gov't (for the purpose of collecting social security when she retires). the birth certificate she got from the texas vital statistics office says she was born on march 21st. how is she to prove she was born on march 14th? my grandmother and grandfather (her parents) are dead; as is the doctor who delivered her. the social security office said they have to go with the 21st as her birthday.

     not a huge deal, it's only a week off. but what if that ceritificate listed her birth year incorrectly as 1951 instead of 1950. she'd have to wait an extra year to collect social security unless she could somehow prove she was born in 1950.

     these "birther people" are being completely unfair. barack can't prove his birth except to show a document saying where he was born. unless he has knowledge that his birth certificate is false, what is he suppose to do?

     Posted by urmygyro at 07/27/2009 @ 11:37pm

148. It seems as though the question of whether BHO is a U.S. citizen was put to rest months ago. At least the document provided from Hawaii said so. I think that what has people a little nervous is whether or not the president has America's best interests at heart.

     A President simply cannot go all over the world and apologize for his country which is exactly what Obama has done. A President can not move as quickly as BHO has done to plunge the country into more debt than all of the other Presidents combined. He's done this in six months!

     A President cannot go in front of a national television audience and use a word like 'stupid' in describing an incident that he knew little about except for what he heard from his 'friend'. This is worse than Clinton's finger pointing 'that woman' speech. Much, much worse.

     A President cannot walk back from such an incendiary remark by having a beer with the two principals involved and think that somehow he's going to cure the racial problem that he previously exascerbated with his own 'stupid' remark.

     A President should be bringing Israel and Iran together instead of Professor Gates and Sgt. Crowley.

     A President cannot claim that he is a uniter and so obviously widen the gap of racial relations and not offer any sort of apology for two days until he realized the fallout. How dangerous to his Presidency and moreso to racial relations in this country. He relit the match that his election almost extinguished.

     A President should bring some experience to the Oval Office. This one has not. So much for change we can believe in. Who's 'we' and 'what' change was he talking about? What a disappointment.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 12:03am

149. The 9/11 "truthers" belong in the same nutbag as the birthers.

     My father was an aeronautical engineer for 15 years in the space program specializing in rocket engine testing.

     Since retirement, he's built a number of small, private planes for himself and friends, and gotten his pilot's license to fly the planes he's built.

     Basically, my Dad is an engineer with a specialized knowledge of aviation fuel -- over decades, starting with the rocket jets X-10 and X-15 up through the moon launches, and then private planes -- so when I asked him why the Twin Towers fell, he could explain it easily.

     The Twin Towers had steel supports holding up the floors, and steel eventually bends at the temperature which the amount of jet fuel in those planes would burn.

     The Towers were built to withstand a hit from the smaller jets of the 1970s, but to an aeronautical engineer (especially with my father's experience of aviation fuel) it was obvious that the towers would fall, and fairly soon after impact.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 12:57am

150. Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 12:57am

     You were doing so well up to that point. I don't think your dad really wanted to accept the fact that this country is so close to the edge.

     All three buildings falling in exactly the same manner is almost a mathematical impossibility. Especially since one was never hit by a jet.

     Those terrorists were geniuses, I suppose.

     Something happened, and it may be explained by gross incompetence.

     Posted by ficheye at 07/28/2009 @ 01:27am

151. Nutty Birthers Get Played by Their Own Republican "Birther" Congress Critters

     "The Birther movement got body-slammed today by Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI), who submitted H. Res. 593 on the floor of the House to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Hawaii's statehood . . . oh, and also identifies Hawaii as the place where Barack Obama was born."

     "The resolution (not only) passed unanimously: those who think this whole birth certificate foofaraw is legitimate, take note -- six out of the nine members of Bill Posey's 'Birther' caucus voted "aye."

     http://tinyurl.com/mko7vt

     Ha, ha, ha! ROFLMAO -- how much you wanna bet THAT isn't covered by Fox News?

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 01:28am

152. Like Sarah Palin, what makes these fools tick? Really? They sound like human bumper stickers, like a myriad of empty slogans and rhetoric. Is that what their conviction is? It's sounds like a psychosis of paranoia. Bush screwed all in the a$$ for 8 years and their bung must be so numb, they didn't feel a thing. What we are experiencing now is as a result of what Bush/Cheney did. But somehow, the black man is the danger.

     Now, if Obama works for the same banking mafia that Bush worked for, and the probability is that he does, what you'll see is a continuation of the massive theft -- redistribution of wealth. But Obama didn't conceive it nor is he its author. Amazing how racism clouds their thinking.

     My theory is that we're all screwed. Obama and Bush, both surrounded by criminals. The international banks run it all. If you're stupid enough to think it's Republican or Democrat, then your just stupid.

     Obama didn't bring endless, contrived wars. How much do these wars cost, both in money and our standing around the world? Obama didn't bring the first bank bailouts. The second, so called, stimulus package is a continuation of the first. They both steal trillions from the treasury. That is what the banks want. Obama is a puppet. Bush was a puppet, although Bush has a really creepy and criminal family that spans really deep and goes back beyond Prescott.

     Obama doesn't have that deep connection. As far as Obama's experience. He doesn't need much. He's managed by those that do. Bush had neither experience or intelligence. So what's the difference? Money will continue to drain from America like blood from a slaughtered pig. That's what the plan is, fool. If you get another Republican in office it will only go to appease tribalism and racism.

     Posted by Opinionated at 07/28/2009 @ 01:45am

153. "Those terrorists were geniuses, I suppose. "

     Not necessarily, and neither is my father. But most engineers would know the temperature at which steel bends (or could look it up in a trice), and be able to advise on how to blow up the Towers with jet impact. (Some reports suggest Osama bin Laden himself earned a degree in civil engineering in 1979.)

     It was common knowlege that the Towers were built to withstand the smaller jet planes of the 1970s, with smaller fuel tanks.

     You're also forgetting the terrorists' first attempt to blow up the Twin Towers in the 1990s-- they not only learned from their mistakes (trying to take the Towers down from a basement explosion), but had years in which to consult a variety of experts on a more efficient manner with which to destroy their target.

     I've also read common sense reasons for the damage to other nearby buildings (I'll dumb it down for truthers and birthers:very big Twin Towers fall down and go boom on, or or too close to, smaller buildings.)

     But facts don't get hold sway way over nutball consiracy theories, and I'm tired so can't be bothered to truck with wackos any further this evening.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 01:51am

154. But "gross incompetence" could describe Bush ignoring memos like "Bin Laden Poised to Strike in U.S." and the hard work that had been done by the Clinton administration on terrorism.

     If you insist on malfeaseance, I'll grant you that Bush and Cheney used 9/11 as a reason to pursue what they'd wanted all along: Iraq's oil for Halliburton.

     Anything to distract from Saudi Arabia, where again Bush and Cheney had friends in oil, and from which a goodly number of that day's terrorist sprang.

     There is plent of evidence of Bush and Cheney deliberately or arrogantly fucking up before and after the fact: to manufacture illogical and false conspiracies detracts from legitimate (and logical) very real crime.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 02:10am

155. judybrowni--you mention your father a lot. are you or have you ever been married?

     Posted by urmygyro at 07/28/2009 @ 02:22am

156. But facts don't get hold sway way over nutball consiracy theories, and I'm tired so can't be bothered to truck with wackos any further this evening. Posted by judybrowni

     I'll grant you that Bush and Cheney used 9/11 as a reason to pursue what they'd wanted all along: Iraq's oil for Halliburton.

     Posted by judybrowni

     You must have a hard time dealing with yourself.

     Posted by abell12ct at 07/28/2009 @ 06:28am

157. Say, just how do we salute the "Racist in Chief" the Obamanation that makes desolation? I'm beginning to get confused about our national identity with all the black nationalist racist remarks about law officers fulfilling their sworn duty by the supposed head law enforcement official!

     Is Seig Heil now the appropriate response or are we supposed to have a beer in our hand when we as we stiff arm salute?

     Posted by BigPasture at 07/28/2009 @ 07:53am

158. Oh judy judy, judy...just hit me you were a trollee.

     U R OLD MAN DOESN'T KNOW FROM SHINOLA. iF YOU HAVE BELIEVED THE OFFICIAL STORY all along, you have lived with a lie. So blatant, irrefutable (forget the absurd floor clamp shearing across 130 floors theory)and absurd on the face of it ... such people --I don't want to pick on just one little pea in the pod -- they've brainwashed or intimidated massive numbers. A LOT OF PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS KNOWINGLY HELPED CHENEY & TENNANT, all of whom are guilty of making lying war and the blood of every victim, and that would easily approach 6,000,000, refugees still flowing into caskets made in China, filled by neocons (Catholics and Jews, basically -- using blacks and homosexuals (who like it! tee hee -- balls to the face of Hitler! tee hee) to front their observant "G-d" causes.

     Me, I worship God, when it comes to talking American -- in the same sense used by the Founding Fathers, 98% Protestant, you can look it up. NOT: Catholics or Jews (who use women and blacks for facebook status fronts)-- who couldn't own property or vote, in the original American idea. That is, God in the same sense as desecrated and blasphemed by everybody who followed Ronald Reagan, Cheney, McCain and Bushsquatees. This, continuing the disruption of not just the social, but sacred contract between fathers and sons by those who ordered U.S. soldiers to kill Communists in Vietnam -- substituting Kennedy's Catholic Zeus.Deus for Washington's. That was the existential/metaphysical glitch in this Nation's history that brought these old world old war, old hate religions into my native country and by God I'll pick up a gun to defend it.

     American, not Christian, unhuman shape shifting reptiles.

     May I hear Amen .. and not from the queers.

     Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 08:31am

159. Freudian typoslip: "Not" should proceed "American", 2nd line from bottom.

     "Not American, not Christian, unhuman snake brain hulu commercial lizards".

     They know who they are and what they have done, which is what John Calvin knew and why he was right.

     Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 09:06am

160. Posted by BigPasture at 07/28/2009 @ 07:53am

     This is atleast the second "Obama is Hitler" ref by RIO/Big Posture.

     "Obama "Can" Govern as a Progressive" No arguement with that statement as the his policies should resemble those of the "third reich" and "totalitarian communism" which are embrace by the highly selective authoritative minority rule so favored by "regressives"!

     The only questions any voter should have is "Who gets to play the part of the Jews and other society undesirables this time around?" Maybe conservatives and christians?"---Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/28/2008 @ 4:20pm

     Naturally, he also is a complete hypocrite, as well as a certifible wacko-

     "This must be a game for complete fools who exist merely to HATE BUSH to the exclusion of all other subjects?"----Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 10:37pm

     Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 09:12am

161. Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 09:12am | ignore this person | warn this person

     Can't answer the question eh mAsKed fool?

     Posted by BigPasture at 07/28/2009 @ 09:21am

162. Yeah, right. My father -- a working engineer for 45 years, specializing in rocket engine testing (and aviation fuel) for 15 of those years, who, in his retirement years earned a pilot's license and built private planes would know less than a wingnut who can't spell, about the effect of jets hitting the Twin Towers, and about when the temperature of the burning fuel would buckle the steel supports of those towers.

     Uh huh.

     This is one reason the 9-11 "truthers" are despised far and wide as dangerous, despicable fools.

     The actual conspiracies of Bush and Cheney are evil and illegal enough, but to have tinfoil hatters claiming the illogical and unreasonable muddies the picture and discredits rational arguments.

     You should be ashamed of yourselves.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 10:17am

163. Oh dear lord in heaven, I finally waded into the rest of the spew of Jones, which includes anti-semetic, anti-Catholic hate speech, and God knows what other incoherent, paranoid bigotry.

     They let you out of your cage at night?

     Talk about trolls, stupid me for trying to talk sense to someone apparently off his meds.

     But don't worry, I'll ignore you from here on in -- it's difficult, if not impossible, to cut through paranoid delusions.

     And what a poster boy for 9/11 "truthers!"

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 10:25am

164. Posted by BigPasture at 07/28/2009 @ 09:21am

     What IS the question, RIO?

     "Is Obama Hitler?" as you like to "hint" at?

     If so the anawer is...

     you're a wackadoodle!....LOL

     Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 10:52am

165. Judy,

     While I'm no fan of any particular news or opinion show, I think you'll find that Fox News' Bill O'Reilly has castigated the 'birthers' while CNN's Lou Dobbs is demanding that the Obama people produce a legitimate birth certificate. Anyway, his grandmother, who swore that he was born in Kenya and that his birth was merely reported in Hawaiian newspapers, must either have an ax to grind or is senile and has a faulty memory. It's a moot point in any case.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 11:26am

166. Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 11:26am

     How fringey is a group of right-wingers when the likes of..Ann Coulter...Michelle Malkin...O'Reilly...and Limbaugh won't support them???

     Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 12:17pm

167. Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 10:25am

     Too many holes in the official theory, Judy.

     I'm not sure that there was a conspiracy, but to ignore the many, many problems with the official story is almost as bad as being a 'birther', especially the name calling and derogatory inferences. Your vehemence in supporting your view just points to the possibility that you have doubts as well, but you cannot voice them.

     Yes, I'm sure that your dad was a great man. He meant a lot to you and you listened to every word.

     By the way, MOST of the jet fuel burned in the initial explosion. It burns at 800 to 1500 degrees, not hot enough to melt steel (2750). But I want you to have a secure outlook on life. Please continue to ignore the laws of physics and the lack of physical evidence to completely support the official theory. Have a donut.

     By the way, I believe Obama was born in Hawaii. And the tinfoil hat reference is being used by both sides now... I switched to copper!

     Posted by ficheye at 07/28/2009 @ 12:25pm

168. It seems like those most interested in the Birthers are those on the left, not conservatives. I've heard very little on mainstream media outlets, not surprisingly -- they're loopy. The only others I've really seen paying attention to them are the folks on MSNBC like Rachel Maddow and Olbermann.

     But that's a tried and true tactic -- try and marginalize your opponents by tying them to some wacky fringe group and say there's no real difference between economic conservatives or pro-life individuals and loons who screech at townhall meetings.

     Some conservatives do the same, though the left gives them a lot of help by allowing folks like MoveOn.org and Code Pink to help fashion policy. But generally liberal folks don't all wear pink hats and yell at Congressional Committee hearings, either.

     Posted by J. Saxon at 07/28/2009 @ 12:38pm

169. "try and marginalize your opponents by tying them to some wacky fringe group and say there's no real difference between economic conservatives or pro-life individuals and loons who screech at townhall meetings."----Posted by J. Saxon at 07/28/2009 @ 12:38pm

     So, in your view, is Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota a "wacky fringer" or a mainstream conservative?

     Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 1:12pm

170. Posted by ficheye at 07/28/2009 @ 12:25pm

     Anyone who knows anything about high rise construction knows full well exactly why the towers came down. The steel didn't have to melt in order for the weight of the floors above impacting to collapse onto the fire floors. All the steel had to do was to warp to weaken the fire floors and become unstable enough for the floors above to begin coming down like a stack of pancakes.

     As each floor collapsed, the weight of each additional floor caused the next floor and the next to collapse until the buildings rested in a pile of rubble at ground level. Note that the video of the collapse shows the towers collapsing straight down. Terrorists or government would never have been able to set charges for a controlled demolition and gone unnoticed. Also if bombs were involved we would have seen lateral explosive trauma to the building where there was none. The jet fuel did indeed burn hot enough to warp the steel causing the collapse of both buildings.

     As for the third building coming down, that was simply caused by a weakening of it's foundation as a result of the earthquake like rumbling of the towers.

     Firefighters have witness many buildings collapse under much less stress.

     By the way, Elvis is still dead.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 2:59pm

171. Steel doesn't have to actually melt to lose a great deal of its tensile strength, and jet fuel was certainly not the only fuel involved. The fire load of a building that size with furniture, walls, papers, and dog knows what else would be absolutely incredible. If you want a conspiracy, go with the somewhat more plausible notion that powerful people in the administraion knew an attack was coming but did nothing to stop it. And please, stop impugning the good name of physics by dragging it into your fuckery. You people sound exactly like the kennedy conspiracy nuts- wow, there are holes in the warren commission report and the senate hearing!!!! Imagine that, a thousand page dissertation written by the government that has mistakes! The horror! It must be a nefarious conspiracy involving thousands rather than human frailty. And those jew al qaeda mossad agents just lied about flying fucking jets into the goddamn buildings.

     Posted by entropy at 07/28/2009 @ 3:09pm

172. wow, gunslinger's quick draw beat me to the punch!

     Posted by entropy at 07/28/2009 @ 3:10pm

173. I've won every argument about this since '04, when Popular Mechanics came out to explain things to little judy trollgirl's dads everywhere -- who knows nothing about this particular case unless he has studied Stephen Jones, others. Group discussions of factual issues always degenerate to the lowest common denominator of absurdity, usually with some judy judy judy trollee at the bottom, distorting everything as a front for Jews, Catholics, homosexuals and other types of parasitic disease carriers. All sweet and innocent. What do they need top know?

     I liked this one from Salon today: "Immigrants should be eligible for the presidency..." Giving up the argument, apparently, knowing it is lost. But wait. That's not the story at all. It's this. ""Birthers" say Obama isn't "natural born" and can't be president. Let's make their whole delusional argument moot." So Michael Lind argues. " during the campaign, some conservatives raised questions about whether Obama was born on U.S. soil. Since Obama's election as president, those critics have spawned an entire movement of "birthers" who have displaced "tea-baggers" on the wingnut right."

     Delusional? Wingnuts? Loony "teabaggers"? --sopping up Bruno's balls to the face. heheheh

     Boy these MSM types really catch on quick.

     These people are psychotic and deserve to be treated as swine with flu.

     The dark side of this is has to be taken all the way back to Vietnam, where American fathers killed American sons for Kennedy's Pope; then Beirut, where Reagan killed 250 U.S. Marines for the Zionist butcher of Sabra and Shatilla -- Ariel Sharon.

     Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 4:21pm

174. Monday, July 27, 2009 White House Defends Biden as 'Asset' After Controversy Over Russia Remarks Vice President Biden stirred controversy when he suggested that Russia would cooperate with the United States because the country is in a state of sharp decline.

     Posted by HelenDAO at 07/27/2009 @ 9:40pm

     Wait a minute... I thought a favorable role for any U.S. President was to cheese off the commie pinko Russians.

     Oh wait, Reagan "won" the Cold War...

     Etc.

     Etc.

     Posted by schnellerheinz at 07/28/2009 @ 4:33pm

175. "So, in your view, is Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota a 'wacky fringer' or a mainstream conservative?"

     Largely mainstream; not sure how she relates to the Birthers. She's not even a cosponsor of the bill this article mentions.

     Certainly not as extreme to the conservative side than Dennis Kucinich or Barbara Lee is to the left.

     A distraction in any event -- one backbench Representative saying some unfortunate things doesn't negate the central point. The left is making more of this than it's worth, obviously to score political points. Most GOP'ers would like the whole thing to go away.

     Posted by J. Saxon at 07/28/2009 @ 4:53pm

176. "jones", you are a truly disgusting human being. I'm sure that hitler would be quite proud that daddy's big boy can type in complete sentences though. Crawl into a catholic , jew and homosexual free hole and die please.

     Posted by entropy at 07/28/2009 @ 5:12pm

177. I guarantee that mr. saxon is correct in his assertion that most in the GOP just want this to go away. That is a pretty standard reaction when something like this makes your "base" show their true raving lunatic colors. I can identify somewhat with the libertarian right just wanting to be left alone by government, but these racist loons and the fundy christians get so much batshit on sensible rightists that any salient points are buried in the guano.

     Posted by entropy at 07/28/2009 @ 5:26pm

178. Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 4:21pm

     You, of course are entitled to your opinion as is anyone else here but you're dead wrong about 'tea-baggers'. This is a growing movement of people who are productive citizens who want nothing more than to stop paying for people who are unproductive. The poor are the poor and do need help, as well as the infirm. But we all know what we're referring to when we cite unproductive people so let's not play games here. The tea-baggers, who are of all races but predominately white are fed up with working one, two and even three jobs to support a family of four while they are forced to pay for someone who sits home and collects a check every month. And I'm not talking about pension checks or social security either.

     Back in the sixties, Rap Brown used to shout "We want our RAP-arations!" Well he got them in the form of welfare, food stamps and affirmative action, all paid for by productive people of all colors. People like Professor Gates and Barack and Michelle Obama got where they are because of affirmative action. Now they want to socialize medicine. People who voted for Obama will be getting buyers remorse very soon now. The tea-bagger movement is just getting started and they are completely in the right to feel indignant. Enough is enough already.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 5:43pm

179. I absolutely agree with much of what you say, gunslingerz -- I knew people that spoke and participated in the April 15 "tea bag" rally here, which was real people, doing real things WHICH I DID AND DO SUPPORT. bUT ARE YOU NOT AWARE OF THE MANIPULATION? -- Fox newz Glenn Beck/ Bill O'Reilley and all Townhall righties except Paul Craig Roberts and a handful of Paleoconservatives like AntiYuppie at Texas Dissedent's Original Dissent Forum "Neocon Watch". The people cranking out the news blogs for the MSM are so far behind what we did then, for all time, documenting mass treason transpiring in real time.

     However, this pure 'right wingism', which I avow as my own version, naturally -- and no others -- had no metaphysics, theology, much of anything except knowledge we were right and neoconism would inevitably run toward "worse before it could get better" -- as in a black man and a woman running against an enfeebled old fucker and Alaskan female moose hunter. As the I-Man would say, you couldn't make it up.

     But 'tea bagging', along with everything "right wing extremists" are credited with doing (Quote: "If we were to identify the extreme conspiracy theorists of the Bush era, the 9/11 Truthers would surely come out on top" tpmcafe.) has been framed out of their reality picture ...'crazy' They are robotic drone killers, locked inside their own psychosis.

     Roosevelt's New Deal, however: and social security. Don't touch that, anybody. Those who do the work should have the most say -- old leftist principle of mine.

     Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 6:21pm

180. You, of course are entitled to your opinion as is anyone else here but you're dead wrong about 'tea-baggers'. This is a growing movement of people Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 5:43pm

     The tea-bagger movement is dead. One weekend and they were done. But the KKK is still around...I think you two would fit right in.

     Posted by Balrog at 07/28/2009 @ 7:14pm

181. Belrog ...tea bag movement is dead but the KKK is still around?

     Well, that brings back Leo Frank, Marietta Ga. Jew convicted of brutalizing and killing little 12 yr old Mary Phagan, 'way back in 1913; later hanged by good citizens of the county as big NYC lawyers were about to get him sprung. The KKK was sparked up by the ADL then because the killing was blamed on a black man, James Conley, I believe, who interrupted the crime in progress. Then agents provocateurs from the FBI were always black-flagging or fake-hating some incident to give white race conscious citizens a bad name, just like they have done with von Brunn. There were no eyewitnesses to him shooting the black man guarding the holocaust museum, and one of the first to glimpse the scene, a "Maria", quoted by CNN, saw a scene consistent with him as victim. So I think the old dude was offed for the PR. But I don't think he was KKK. Certainly if they retained pride of racial identity, as I do, they would be superior people to be around than multicultural mixtures of the nothings America ever was.

     So here's pretty perky Rachel Maddow tonight commenting on birthers and tweaking Lou Dobbs for calling her "tea bag queen", as if she got the inner ball-to-the-face meaning of that but he didn't (for how could she be that? yuk yuk) Ah, subtlety abounds, I tell you. Irony upon paradox. And she just could say "crazy" enough for birthers. Crazy crazy

     Well, somebody is, all right all right.

     Posted by jones at 07/28/2009 @ 9:33pm

182. Hey Jonesie: I like the fact that you love to hear yourself talk and read whatever blather you spew and the reactions thereof. How wonderful is it to be in your fortunate family. I find it great sport myself to read people like you and no matter what crap I have to put up with during the day I can always come on here and get a good laugh from you. You seem to really, I mean really, care and yet all you do is nothing but rant. It is great fun to watch you - you have that special type of self-unaware insanity that is so hard to find. My hope is that each night when you go to bed and say your prayers and kiss your best friend under your pillow that you never accidentally release the safety. I sincerely mean that. It is people like you that give me hope in this world. Thank you so much.

     Posted by vaguelyinterested at 07/28/2009 @ 11:21pm

183. By the way, Elvis is still dead. Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 2:59pm

     ...fucking jets into the goddamn buildings. Posted by entropy at 07/28/2009 @ 3:09pm

     Gee fellas, I don't really have a beef with you, but you should read the post before you go flying off.

     All I said was " I don't really think there was a conspiracy..." closely followed by the fact that most of the jet fuel burned up shortly after impact in the initial fireball. That's all I said.

     No explosions, no bad guys, no Dick Cheney sitting in my armchair.

     As I said... I don't think there was a conspiracy. Dig?

     Posted by ficheye at 07/28/2009 @ 11:29pm

184. Posted by Balrog at 07/28/2009 @ 7:14pm

     I wasn't trying to offend anyone so if you took offense at my remarks it may be because I touched a raw nerve. I deal in reality. The reality in America right now is that people are sick and tired of paying for their neighbors mortgage, food, health care and just about everything else in the form of outdated welfare payments which were originally provided to actually take care of the poorest among us.

     But we all know the system was seriously abused and soon some people found that the more children you had, the bigger the check, to the tune of eight or nine kids and more, most with deadbeat dads who were never held accountable. This has been a plague on our country and has fomented deep resentment quite on a par with the resentment blacks have because of their slave heritage.

     I don't believe in letting children starve. I do , however, believe that people who are unable to provide for their own children should not be having baby after baby with the full knowledge that someone else will be paying for their care and housing.

     The tea-bagger movement is very much alive and is growing more rapidly than move-on did in it's infancy. These are people who are very angry and have the clout to channel their anger into action. Time will tell.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:28am

185. Also, I did not appreciate the KKK reference. At some point, the truth needs to be told.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:30am

186. Posted by J. Saxon at 07/28/2009 @ 4:53pm

     Oh, well, as long as you're being objective.....

     heheh

     Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 08:03am

187. RE: Birthers, Truthers and other wackjobs:

     Schizophrenia (SCZ) (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. Distortions in perception may affect all five senses, including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, but most commonly manifest as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood,[1] with approximately 0.4–0.6%[2][3] of the population affected. Diagnosis is based on the patient's self-reported experiences and observed behavior.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_schizophrenia

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 08:23am

188. "The tea-bagger movement is very much alive and is growing more rapidly than move-on did in it's infancy. These are people who are very angry and have the clout to channel their anger into action. Time will tell."----Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:28am

     Uh, gun....friendly advice. I don't think you want to try to praise them by calling them "tea-baggers". Google that term.

     Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 08:38am

189. Walk down 125th Street in Harlem. Among the outdoor book vendors, I bet you don't find any Hughes, Hurston, or Baldwin, what you will find is second-rate "race" lit: racially steretyped novel-length cliches for black people with titles like "Da Bitch is Back." (actual title)

     walk down any street in america and look at the book tables. you won't find any nobel prize winning literature there either.

     you Sir, are a racist.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/29/2009 @ 09:04am

190. Obama birthers ate my love child! The president is an alien!

     The Republican nutball fringe wants you! Apply now!

     http://tinyurl.com/klqxjv

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 2:25pm

191. Too many holes in my head

     Posted by ficheye at 07/28/2009 @ 12:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     9/11 conspiracy nuts begone, begone.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/29/2009 @ 2:42pm

192. The tea-baggers, who are of all races but predominately white... Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 5:43pm

     Also, I did not appreciate the KKK reference. Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009

     You seem so enamored of the radical white people groups, I simply thought...

     Posted by Balrog at 07/29/2009 @ 3:21pm

193. "The president is an alien!"

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 2:25pm

     I KNEW it! The way those towers went down said 'photon torpedo' all over it.

     Frikkin' Hawaiitians.

     Posted by Malcontent at 07/29/2009 @ 3:26pm

194. I pointed out some odd discrepancies, but I distinctly remember saying...

     " I don't think there was a conspiracy."

     I know everyone here can type, but can they read? Great shades of Glen Beck.

     Remember the test 'Read everything before doing anything?' Apparently not.

     Posted by ficheye at 07/29/2009 @ 4:09pm

195. I'm not sure that there was a conspiracy,

     this is what you stated.

     "I don't think there was a conspiracy." this is something else entirely.

     " but I distinctly remember saying..."

     your memory is obviously faulty. see above.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/29/2009 @ 4:50pm

196. MORE CONGRESSMEN RUNNING FROM THE BIRTHER NONSENSE

     And yes, crazy birthers, even some Republicans disavow you.

     http://tinyurl.com/nwhvqk

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 5:10pm

197. More independent evidence that the "birthers" are full of shit:

     "The placement of Obama's birth announcement in two Hawaii newspapers contained information that, by law, had to come from the health department, not phoned in from Kenya, as birthers suggest.

     "Take a second and think about that," wrote Robert Farley of the St. Petersburg (Fla.) Times' Pulitzer Prize winning Web site PoliticFact.com on July 1. "In order to phony those notices up, it would have required the complicity of the state Health Department and two independent newspapers -- on the off chance this unnamed child might want to one day be president of the United States."

     But this was never about evidence, was it? The so-called birthers are racists, and the Republicans are allowing them to foment racism through this sorry excuse of a lie.

     http://tinyurl.com/l64enh

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 5:56pm

198. A point about evidence occurred to me: Was Obama's biological father supposed to have been present at his birth in Hawaii? If not, then there is no evidence he even had one, is there -- except word of mouth by the mother, who would have as much reason to lie -- had she slept with anyone else? -- as the two of them (whoever the 'donor' was), would have to get him certified. Just a logical point. Who at the hospital, if they were ever there, saw and checked out and filled in the "paternity" line?

     But proofers are so totally irrational about this, as if you were taking away THEIR black-white father, if you point out this one could be a reptile -- tacitly making you Children of McCain, from the womb of Sarah Palin, after all.

     What Chris Hayes, Arianna Huffington and MSNBC's snob squad don't get -- and I wouldn't explain it to them for nothing, after the fools they've become -- is THE SCREAMING OF 'BIRTHERS' -- YOUR TERM -- IS FETAL RAGE FROM THE REGRESSED, UNBORN FETAL ORIGINS OF COMMON EXPERIENCE -- MOCKED; LOST THEIR WOMB-SURROUND, COUNTRY, LIVELIHOODs, EACG OTHER, AND WITNESS YOUNG WOMEN AND CHILDREN GETTING LINED UP BY THE CDC FOR POISONOUS RED-PILL BLUE-PILL VACCINE INJECTIONS SHOVED IN FACE AND ARMS AS OBAMA'S "HEALTH CARE BILL". And there is no relief, and cannot be, even if this is removed, because America is in the grip of group psychosis. It is driven entirely by unconscious group fantasy, projection-reversal, and 'heroic' child sacrifice foe rebirth. And it is rejecting this substitute/surrogate mixed-race 'father' as "made in Israel."

     Posted by jones at 07/29/2009 @ 5:56pm

199. What?

     You, Sir, are nuggen futz!

     Into the ignore bin with the rest of the nutballs...

     Posted by Balrog at 07/29/2009 @ 7:28pm

200. What I wrote earlier now seems a prophecy, after having read Jones above:

     Schizophrenia (SCZ) (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. Distortions in perception may affect all five senses, including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, but most commonly manifest as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood,[1] with approximately 0.4–0.6%[2][3] of the population affected. Diagnosis is based on the patient's self-reported experiences and observed behavior.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_schizophrenia

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 7:32pm

201. Posted by Balrog at 07/29/2009 @ 3:21pm

     You consider the tea-baggers a 'radical white people group'? Take a good look in the mirror.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 10:01pm

202. your memory is obviously faulty. see above. Posted by emile duBois at 07/29/2009 @ 4:50pm

     You win, Emile. It's such a niggling point, the placement of one word. But it's true... I said it. You have beaten me.

     No conspiracy. I hope that is clear enough. That is what I meant.

     Gross negligence, perhaps.

     Posted by ficheye at 07/29/2009 @ 10:05pm

203. Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:28am

     Where were the tea baggers when Bush was running up the national debt? Where were they when he committed the nation to nearly a trillion dollars to be spent rebuilding Iraq? Where were they when Bush committed billions to prop up the banks?

     the tea baggers showed up when a black man got elected president. The rise in tea bagging correlates closely with the rise in gun sales and "panic room" sales.

     He comin for yo white women, and he ain't gonna use a tea bag on 'em!

     Be afraid.

     Posted by crabwalk at 07/30/2009 @ 06:52am

204. Posted by jones at 07/29/2009 @ 5:56pm |

     You, Sir, are nuggen futz! Posted by Balrog at 07/29/2009 @ 7:28pm |

     Shine On You Crazy Diamond!

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqgjCKm9nQ

     Posted by snowball777 at 07/30/2009 @ 07:15am

205. Couple of observations...

     1. Just flushed the ignomious JONES to the ignore bin where he joins other useless entitites (HAPPY, ILYA, GANGPAPIST) that cannot grunt through a paragraph without some kind of dull expression of chauvinism. They are not the only chauvinists, of course, but the highly kinetic paranoia and stupidity of permanent resdents BIG P, ANTI, and JOMAMMA prove occasionally, laughably amusing & present some insight into these how highly indoctrinated America-haters pull rationalizations of what they are from their sorry asses.

     2. On the other hand, got to heap praise on JUDYBROWNI for her recent advent onto this webpage as she has been kicking ass.

     3. Why do we know that consrvatives are inferior to us normal people in their reasoning capacities? Why do we believe that, when blogging, conservaLosers hook the keyboard up with their anuses and then let rip with a drippy, runny stream of disgusting fecal soup? Well, it's shit like this. Stand back a yard or 2 from the screen and take a whiff of this smokin' doozie:

     "It seems like those most interested in the Birthers are those on the left, not conservatives"-J. Saxon, 7/28@12:38pm

     That's right, J: RAHM EMMANUEL gets on national televison, CNN, and starts talking up the profound doubts that he has about his boss's nationality, pushing LOU DOBBS aside & elbowing his way to the mike in order to deliver a stinging denunciation. He then summons HARRY REID, NANCY P, the staff of DAILY KOS, TPM & HUFFPO to give agitated expression to their convictions about where Obama was born and how they gamed the Hawaii newspapers and bureacracies to fake BHO's birth! And they just won't stop it!

     Same for the Dem caucus. Non-stop bills calling for birth certs, designed to harrass the hated POTUS!!!

     Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/30/2009 @ 08:29am

206. "I'm beginning to get confused about our national identity with all the black nationalist racist remarks about law officers fulfilling their sworn duty by the supposed head law enforcement official!

     Is Seig Heil now the appropriate response or are we supposed to have a beer in our hand when we as we stiff arm salute?"

     -BigPasture, 07/28@7:53am

     In case anyone missed it, conservaCirucsFreaks believe that being anti-big guv means harboring vast approval of a cop entering someone's home and then arresting that person despite the proof of their residency in said dwelling. Criticism of such actions is pure Hitlerism!

     But wait! It gets worse than that! In fact, it is standard conservaCircusFreak-ism for them to be supreme relativists with regard to every position that they take.

     BIG P belives that while Skip Gates needs to be criminalized for entering his house, he is quite the liberatarian about what goes on in WARREN JEFFS's dwelling, the fundy compound.

     As a hardcore conservCircusFreak, BIG P believes that WARREN JEFFS & his most holy lieutenants should marry, molest, have whoppee with (etc, etc) whatever minors they want to do onto. They are the authorities in the compound! It is their right to be child molesters, in BIG P's sick and diseased head.

     Think I'm being harsh? I have spent years, literally, begging BIG P to denounce WARREN JEFFS & what he stands for. BIG P has never uttered a peep, even a sylable against WARREN JEFFS in his sporadic responses.

     I invite others to query BIG P on why he belives it is Hitlerian to criticize an officer escalating a situation in what was known to be the resident's home into an arrest; but why throbbing support for WARREN JEFFS's compound echoes through every corner of BIG's mind and every fiber of his heart.

     Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/30/2009 @ 08:47am

207. Is Seig Heil now the appropriate response or are we supposed to have a beer in our hand when we as we stiff arm salute?" -BigPasture, 07/28@7:53am

     from our Deutsche Sprach, schwere Sprach department:

     it's "Sieg Heil"

     the release of the 911 call shows that the cop presumed black and therefore was prejudiced.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:21am

208. Posted by ficheye at 07/29/2009 @ 10:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     I have not won, nor have I beaten you. the most that can perhaps be said is that I have kept you honest.

     the placement of one word does alter the meaning of a sentence.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:26am

209. I'm not sure that there was a conspiracy,

     this is an agnostic.

     "I don't think there was a conspiracy."

     this is an atheist.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:31am

210. ...the placement of one word does alter the meaning of a sentence.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:26am

     I believe that I acknowledged that error.

     Anything else?

     Posted by ficheye at 07/30/2009 @ 11:40am

211. I'll go slower over key points, invoking grace for mercy, but looking at a bunch of insane f-tards

     1. The American collective unconscious no longer accepts Obama. That is the 'plunging polls' subtext.

     2. The symbolic role of President is Father of His Country, that would be like Washington, HItler, Mussolini,and wannabe Reagan.

     3. Nixon sacrificed American youth/lives continuing a war in Vietnam begun by J.F.Kennedy for the Catholics, using anti-communism as a front to ingratriate loathsome and inferior Joe McCarthy mindset as "God" protected.

     4. This cut the inner historical group fantasy thread of the social contract, through Fathers as Presidents.

     5. With Reagan,the Jewish side of pro-Vietnam war zealots emerged as 'neocons' to take over the rhetoric and organization of what was later -- now -- called "conservartism" -- The Jew (AIPAC)-Catholic (institutional) power configuration controlling the MSM and global discourse (through union of homosexual translators, apparently).

     6. The dark side of this mixed race black-white president is a continuation on the symbolic side, of the dark, child-sacrificing Nixon-Reagan-neocon-McCain-Palin snake brain, easily gaining entry into his nice, well-shaped accomodating skull. The Son of some Man (an Archetype, really)from the Black Continent, as if absorbed into the bosom of predominantly white America without a valid birth certificate?

     7. U R fucking crazy

     8. When "BIRTHERS!" scream 'I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!" that is the sound of abused children -- see visuals of how they hate their abusers -- "Assault On Truth" ... overlaying the sound of Fetal rage -- visuals of fetuses in womb threshing wildly, swirling head in great anger-reaction to mother's discomfort - flashback to that-)<=(-:

     Posted by jones at 07/30/2009 @ 12:06pm

212. The Birthers: A Short Play by Hunter Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 08:00:04 AM PDT In my new tradition of summarizing major political stories in the form of short plays, may I present: The Birthers...

     Conservative: I don't believe you were born in the United States. I demand you show me your birth certificate.

     Liberal: OK, here it is.

     Conservative: I'm not going away, damn it. I demand to see your real birth certificate.

     Liberal: I told you, it's right here.

     Conservative: I demand you put it on the web, so everyone can see it.

     Liberal: I already did. You can see it right here. Just look at it.

     Conservative: Some guy in Mississippi says it looks fake. I demand you show me your secret birth certificate.

     Liberal: I don't have a secret birth certificate. This is it. I put it on the web.

     Conservative: Conspiracy! Conspiracy! I can see now you're hiding something! I demand to see your birth certificate!

     Liberal: It's Right. F---ing. Here. Ten thousand people across the planet have printed it out.

     Conservative: Those are copies. I want to see the original.

     Liberal: Lots of reporters have seen the original. I can't bloody send it around to every conservative nutcase in America, one at a time, like a birth certificate chain letter.

     (long pause)

     Conservative: I don't believe you have a checking account. I demand to know your account number, routing number, pin number, and that you give me a blank check made out to "cash".

     Liberal: Go to hell.

     and, SCENE.

     Thank you. I am happy to announce that Lou Dobbs has agreed to attend the off-Broadway premiere.

     http://tinyurl.com/l8jtfp

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 12:36pm

213. Tell CNN to Stop Peddling Racist Propaganda

     Lou Dobbs is once again peddling extremist propaganda on CNN. This time, he's giving legitimacy to the discredited, conspiratorial claims that President Obama was born outside the U.S. and is ineligible to be president.

     Bill O'Reilly says we shouldn't take Dobbs seriously – that his "bloviating" is just a ratings game. But it's a dangerous game.

     By lending credence to this bogus story, Dobbs is pandering to a segment of society that is not ready to accept a black man in the White House. He bears a degree of moral responsibility for pouring fuel -- in the form of baseless accusations -- on a raging fire of racism that has already resulted in a wave of violence since Obama was elected.

     This is not just about Dobbs. It's about standing up against the mainstreaming of hate and extremism. It's about the news media's responsibility to tell the truth.

     Enough is enough. O'Reilly says CNN won't care what the public thinks about Dobbs' irresponsible reporting. Let's show he's wrong. Please join our call for CNN to remove Dobbs from the air. We'll compile and forward your comments to CNN.

     http://www.splcenter.org/blog/stop-propaganda/

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 12:59pm

214. what you did not acknowledge was the churlish defensiveness of your reply, comparing me to Glen Beck for instance.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 1:36pm

215. From comments on FireDogLake, more reality:

     "It would be funny if it weren't so tragically stupid how many of these nutsos try to make out that "Certificate of Live Birth" means something other than "Birth Certificate." Unbelievable.

     And, of course, I've had to produce certified copies of my WVa birth certificate for a number of official occasions. That's what you get; a certified copy. No records official is going to send out the original.

     And I haven't heard anyone address the horseshit about not being from the hospital with doctor's name, time of birth, etc.

     As a matter of fact, that's not the official birth certificate; that's the evidence used by the state vital stats bureau (whatever it may be called) to create the official original birth certificate, which is then filed in the official records. Jesus H. Christ on a f'g crutch - as my creatively profane ex used to say.

     edit: In fact, I've had to get certified copies of lots of official documents for various legal cases. You NEVER get the original because the officials are obliged by law to keep orginals. Among other reasons, if it went out, it wouldn't be there the NEXT time a certified copy was needed. Sheesh.

     (Also) Hawaii law limits access to vital records (birth, death, marriage and divorce) to persons with a legitimate interest in the matter.

     No one other than researchers has access to the detailed record, that's true in every State that I know about.

     http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/30/roy-blunt-on-the-birthers-unedited/

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 2:13pm

216. I will acknowledge this about Glenn Beck: he is no racist....but he certainly is a bigot.

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/30/2009 @ 4:11pm

217. This is not just about Dobbs. It's about standing up against the mainstreaming of hate and extremism. It's about the news media's responsibility to tell the truth.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 12:59pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     I must admit, Dobbs certainly surprised me with his narrowmindedness...he has one less viewer here.

     Posted by jarshadow at 07/30/2009 @ 5:39pm

218. comparing me to Glen Beck for instance. Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 1:36pm

     More sarcasm than reality, emile. There were three people, at least, boxing me in and calling me a conspiracy nut, you included. A very sensitive issue here.

     So, I do not believe in the conspiracy. So you (and others) were typecasting me without more than a couple of sentences to go on. That makes one churlish.

     So be it. You are not like Glen Beck. Finis.

     Posted by ficheye at 07/30/2009 @ 6:25pm

219. you were surprised?

     after all his demagoguery about the immigration issue?

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 6:27pm

220. On one point I disagree: I believe some of the birthers are well aware of their racism, and using the "birther" movement to cloak their bigotry in a (relatively) more acceptable format.

     Posted by judybrowni at 07/25/2009 @ 02:39am

     These people are desperate. Their tea bagging demonstrations fizzed out like cheap champagne and now they're trying a new stunt.

     These poor schmucks really can't get their heads around a black president with a funny name can they?

     Posted by Shingo at 07/30/2009 @ 7:10pm

221. I just LOVE the birthers. just love 'em. talk about lunatic fringe.

     Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 7:27pm

222. That breakthrough I communicated earlier -- it's all about the Father (the proofers lack) -- has done it again. Now I see the connection between Sotomayor and the Birther movement --slap-on-the-forehead irridescently. It's the abortion issue, obviously.

     It wouldn't be Catholics, holding a tight crupper until they get a 2/3 SC majority nailed down, who would be leading the Birther movement! Think of it.. Show me one. And they wouldn't be Jews. Would they.

     No, the Birthers, like the honest tax protestors "tea bagged'-- smeared with hate and Brumo dung by the MSM, pusses like Beck mostly oblivious to it -- are your Protestants, or descendants: 90%, I'll wager. They are essentially clean in spirit and unafraid to demand what a Father of Our Nation must have: proof they qualify as citizens as required by law, which in this case cannot be satisfied by anything less than full disclosure of all original documents -- and, in addition, now that it has come up, and is of the essence of the sense of national identity, proof of male parentage, in particular. We have the right to know what DNA this individual descended from, I aver. Every other President had one. *** I anticipate some borderline situation where ambiguity in a single word or phrase in the description of an alleged crime can be turned into something "threatening the unborn" -- the way the psychopaths call mothers who want to abort "murderers" (killer mommie/Palin complex); seeking to get some precedent legislation predicating on "the unborn". They've got to "Rescue the Unborn" to feel born themselves -- that's the "papal umbilicus". The pope is the Maternal Male; Jesus is the fetal Hero; "members of the Church" identify wit siblings), so institutional Cathos, lacking Protestant inner rebirth...

     Posted by jones at 07/30/2009 @ 8:13pm