The Rhetoric on Iran

"The world is watching," President Obama said yesterday about the confrontation currently unfolding on the streets of Tehran, where demonstrators are clashing with riot police in an extraordinary display of courage and defiance. Depending on how harsh the crackdown gets – and it looks, as of this moment, that it will be harsh indeed – Obama can and should issue a forceful condemnation. A policy of restraint should not be confused with a policy of cold-eyed indifference, particularly when ordinary people are risking their lives to challenge a brutal regime that claims its repressive conduct is divinely sanctioned.

But let's not forget, as the unrest spills into a second week and the popular uprising continues, how much good has come from the restraint that Obama has exhibited thus far, contrary to the claims of critics like Robert Kagan, who took to the Washington Post on Wednesday to argue that the abandonment of Bush-era "idealism" has somehow undermined the Iranian opposition and benefited the regime.

The opposite is the case. Imagine if, since assuming office, Obama had revived the "axis of evil" rhetoric, indicated he would never consider engagement with Iran, and made grandstanding speeches about spreading freedom and democracy to the Muslim world. Or imagine if, instead of Obama, John McCain were in charge, and in recent months had been calling for tough action, perhaps hinting at regime change. This would have discomfited Iran's supreme leader? To the contrary, what has discomfited the regime has been the shift away from the blend of belligerence, righteousness and aggression that characterized the Bush era and was so easy to dismiss and caricature. Fareed Zakaria explains why here, in an interview that is very worth reading:

By reaching out to Iran, publicly and repeatedly, President Obama has made it extremely difficult for the Iranian regime to claim that they are battling an aggressive America bent on attacking Iran. In his inaugural address, his New Year greetings, and his Cairo speech, there is a consistent effort to convey respect and friendship for Iranians. That is why Khamenei reacted so angrily to the New Year greeting. It undermined the image of the Great Satan that he routinely paints in his sermons. In his Friday sermon, Khamenei said that the United States, Israel, and especially the United Kingdom were behind the street protests, an accusation that will surely sound ridiculous to most Iranians. The fact that Obama has been cautious in his reaction makes it all the harder for Khamenei and Ahmadinejad to wrap themselves in a nationalist flag.

Fortunately, the Kagan's of the world are no longer setting the tone of US foreign policy. This hasn't damaged the cause of freedom - it has boosted it.

Comments (48)

1. The neocons like McCain and others have been trying to push the administration to condemn the government of Iran and support the protesters. Fortunately the Obama administration has not fallen into this trap. The repugs would like nothing better than to exacerbate the situation in Iran.

   They want a slaughter of the Iranian protesters so that they can advance their fascist agenda to destabilize the situation for their own personal gain. Some Democrats are along for the ride.

   Those people who want to do this are traitors to our country and want to take this to the next level. They are Terrorists and should be detained and interrogated under the "Patriot Act".

   Posted by chaoszen at 06/20/2009 @ 1:19pm

2. It's difficult to imagine any official US condemnation of what's happening in Iran as being other than seriously hypocritical. The us includes in it's closest friends in the region the brutal regimes in Israel and Saudi Arabia. The US respects democracy in the region so much that it condemned the Palestinian election that put hamas in power. The us toppled the last Iranian democracy. The Us went to war in Iraq to restore a monarchy.

   Posted by syfriendly at 06/20/2009 @ 1:27pm

3. <i>Posted by syfriendly at 06/20/2009 @ 1:27pm </i>

   Went to war in Iraq to restore a monarchy? I assume you're talking about Iraq I? That certainly doesn't apply to Iraq II.

   Moreover...I always think hypocrisy is misunderstood, and let me clarify that. It's said that "hypocrisy is the tribute vice pays to virtue." Why is that? Because a statement that someone is hypocritical can be broken down into two statements:

   A: That person says X

   B: That person does not-X

   There's an inconsistency between what they say and what they do. But that's not an indictment of what they say; it's a statement that they don't do the right thing enough. They fall short, in other words. However, falling short is not an argument against doing the right thing; that makes the perfect the enemy of the good. Assuming that supporting dictatorships is always wrong, having done so in the past is no argument for not doing so now.

   Posted by Thrawn at 06/20/2009 @ 2:11pm

4. Sorry, got the negatives in that last sentence messed up. It should read "Having done so in the past is no argument for doing so now."

   Posted by Thrawn at 06/20/2009 @ 2:12pm

5. Facts about the election are still hard to verify. And as Syfriendly says, our condemnation would be hypocritical.

   The main question, for me, is 'How many votes were cast?', and then 'How did millions of votes get accurately counted in just a few hours?'

   But this information should be used for only one purpose: For the Iranians THEMSELVES to bolster their case for a more democratic society, which they seem to want. Not totally democratic (we don't even have that), but a possible move forward from the religious and somewhat fanatical system that they now have. Clearly, there are many people in Iran who want change. I think that we can go so far as to champion that. If only Americans were as involved with the process.

   Posted by ficheye at 06/20/2009 @ 2:13pm

6. The Iran demos remind one very much of Chicago '68. If you don't remember that little exercise in US democracy (surrounding the Dem convention), rent the DVD of Haskell Wexler's MEDIUM COOL &/or google the occasion.

   Then there's FL '00 & OH '04.

   Meanwhile, keeping White House pronouncements medium cool, the US continues to channel hundreds of million$ in Special Ops incursions into Iran. But those evil ones deserve it, don't they now.

   What if, say, China (our No. 1 bankers), were running similar ops into FL & LA out of, say, Cuba.

   Posted by sloper at 06/20/2009 @ 2:27pm

7. They want a slaughter of the Iranian protesters so that they can advance their fascist agenda to destabilize the situation for their own personal gain. Some Democrats are along for the ride.

   Those people who want to do this are traitors to our country and want to take this to the next level. They are Terrorists and should be detained and interrogated under the "Patriot Act".

   Posted by chaoszen at 06/20/2009 @ 1:19pm

   Your hatred of others with differing views is so great that you literally don't have a clue what we think.

   Posted by antisocialist at 06/20/2009 @ 7:27pm

8. President Barack Obama is challenging Iran's government to halt "all violent and unjust actions against its own people."

   His comments Saturday came as a postelection crackdown against protesters in Tehran grew more violent.

   Police in the Iranian capital beat protesters and fired tear gas and water cannons at thousands who rallied in open defiance of Iran's clerical government. At least seven people have died since the unrest began days ago.

   Obama said in a statement that the universal rights to assembly and free speech must be respected. He said the U.S. "stands with all who seek to exercise those rights."

   At least now I know what a "neocon" is since the Obamanation that makes desolation seems now to represent the perfect example with his Iranian decree!!!!

   Posted by BigPasture at 06/20/2009 @ 10:27pm

9. How about this:

   "The United States finds the present republican regime's intransigent refusal to deviate from its avowed objective of eliminating the legitimate government of Iran to be inconsistent with the accepted norms of behavior among nations and the moral and religious basis which it claims"

   If Iraq had a legitimate government in 1985....??

   Hey, wait a minute!!!

   I thought the Iraq war was going to cause the Iranians to see the error of their ways and open up their "democracy"? Big Pasture, what happened to this domino theory?

   Would like me to answer my own question?

   Hamas won elections in Palestine

   Muslim Brotherhood won elections in Egypt.

   Achimidinijaed won "elections" in Iran, twice

   Qaddafi get's US taxpayer money to support his regime

   Hezzbollah did good in Lebanon.

   Kyrgistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are still ruled with iron fists.

   Heckuva job!

   Posted by crabwalk at 06/21/2009 @ 07:58am

10. I thought the Iraq war was going to cause the Iranians to see the error of their ways and open up their "democracy"? Big Pasture, what happened to this domino theory

    It appears to be working even now even thought we have a puppet President who is waiting for the oppositions success so he can claim it as his own genius!

    Posted by BigPasture at 06/21/2009 @ 09:59am

11. What I read here is like reading the Left's excuses for Stalin's pact with Hitler. If the US screwed Iran in the past then now is the opportunity to make things right. In the '60's and 70's the student mantra of the day was "regime change". They US, they carped, was on the side of oppression and oppressive regimes had to go. Well, here we are with an oppressive regime stomping on it's own people and the US attitude is...what? What comes next may be no better. But we don't know that. We do know that people are dying and you all stand on the side of a thugocracy. No wonder you're always on the fringe.

    Posted by leopold1 at 06/21/2009 @ 6:35pm

12. I have a clear visual memory of the testosterone moment we had in Iraq and then watched passively while Sadam gassed millions. It seems clear that the Iranians have more courage than we have. We sat timidly by and watched our precious supreme court hand a fraudulent election over.Now we are having those same double speak moments. Unless we are willing to put boots in there and kick ass we should keep our friggin mouths shut. And how about Kent and Ohio state and the daily abuse by some of the gestapo tactics of our own law enforcement sop

    Posted by julien38 at 06/21/2009 @ 9:55pm

13. Author and foreign policy expert Michael Ledeen has published a letter reportedly from the office of Mir Hossein Mousavi, in which the Iranian opposition leader criticizes President Barack Obama for saying Mousavi and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad are "two of a kind."

    The letter, addressed to Obama, takes the president to task for the remark, calling it "a grave and deep insult, not just to Mr. Mousavi but especially against the judgment of the Iranian people, against our moral conviction and intelligence, especially those of the young generation that comprises a population of 31 million.

    "It is a specially grave insult for those who are now fighting for democracy and freedom, and an unwarranted gift and even praise for [Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali] Khamenei, whose security forces are now killing peaceful Iranians in the streets of every major city in the country.

    "Your statement misled the people of the world."

    Wow!!! Way to go Obamanation that makes desolation, it looks like your masterful foriegn policy is raking in its JUST dividends! What was that old saying about "sending a boy to do a man's job"? (I'm sure leftist fools will somehow idiotically assume the use of boy is racist)

    Posted by BigPasture at 06/21/2009 @ 10:36pm

14. Posted by BigPasture at 06/21/2009 @ 10:36pm

    RIO's pretty funny sometimes.

    If there are changes in Iran, he'll attack Obama for "taking credit for it".

    If there are NO changes in Iran, he'll attack Obama for not supporting Mousavi.

    If RIO gets a flat tire, he'll blame it on Obama.

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 06/22/2009 @ 08:03am

15. What if, say, China (our No. 1 bankers), were running similar ops into FL & LA out of, say, Cuba. Posted by sloper

    How do we know that the Chinese aren't doing that?

    Posted by abell12ct at 06/22/2009 @ 10:52am

16. How do we know that the Chinese aren't doing that?----Posted by abell12ct at 06/22/2009 @ 10:52am

    Cuz...it's bad for business???

    Posted by Mask at 06/22/2009 @ 12:22pm

17. Excerpt from the Fareed Zakaria quote:

    "In his Friday sermon, Khamenei said that the United States, Israel, and especially the United Kingdom were behind the street protests, an accusation that will surely sound ridiculous to most Iranians."

    End quote.

    Certainly, when phrased this way it is an absurd accusation.

    Yet, if Americans can stretch their memories way back to the run-up to the Iraq invasion they may just catch a fleeting glimpse of recognition.

    In Iran, as everywhere in the modern world, television is the omnipresent perveyor of visually compelling information --some of it useful, and some of it less so. One of the compelling questions yet to be answered in the wake of the Tehran street protests is, "What sort of information was being beamed into Tehran's houses before, during and after the June 12 election?"

    I'd wager a princely sum that the ever popular BBC broadcasts into Tehran were instrumental in first raising expectations for a Moussavi victory, and subsequently spreading the fanciful virus that the election was "stolen". Make no mistake, the ruling regime has certainly been its own worst enemy in the ham-handed way the elections, election results, and post-election squabbling unfolded.

    I'm still waiting for a quality, in-depth analysis from The Nation or elsewhere that acknowledges the most critical factor that very likely led to the current showdown --namely a massive media-driven misinformation campaign.

    Let's hope that something very fruitful as well as peaceful will result from the tension filled circumstances currently unfolding in Tehran. But let's not at the same time be naïve about what our own government has up its own sleeve in all of this. Wiser minds can be quite certain that democracy in Iran is not a central aim.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/22/2009 @ 3:26pm

18. There is one thing I do want to say about what is happening in Iran: the "Basij" deserve a special treatment in Hell. Anyone who takes up arms against his own people during a time of simple electoral crisis is repugnant in more than one way. On the one hand, he is repugnant because he is not just assassinating a fellow national, he is assassinating his nation's political process. On the other hand, he is repugnant because he a loathsome murderer who pretends his violence has political value.

    We should all watch these "Basij" in action, and when we look to our own political disputes, stamp out any nascent sign of such an entity ever appearing.

    Posted by syfriendly at 06/22/2009 @ 5:16pm

19. Posted by BigPasture at 06/21/2009 @ 10:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    A lot of dung in them dar fields.

    Posted by julien38 at 06/22/2009 @ 7:22pm

20. Iran is in a state of flux, and it would be wise not to comment on the nature of the opposition. While most of the internet comments may be legitimate, I suspect some of them are trying to instigate an American intervention in Iran. Except for CNNI and the BBC, the cable news outlets are going nuts with suppositions. I don't trust anyone! We need to wait and see how things shake out!

    Posted by pjcasey at 06/22/2009 @ 8:03pm

21. "Author and foreign policy expert Michael Ledeen has published a letter reportedly from the office of Mir Hossein Mousavi, Posted by BigPasture at 06/21/2009 @ 10:50pm

    We've already dealt with this slice of comedy BigPasture.

    What else do you expect from, Michael "faster please" Ledeen, Iran-Contra criminal who on 3 sperate occasions reported that the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was dead.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2007/01/im_enjoying_thi.html

    Some foreign policy expert he turned out to be.

    Then again, considering what we had during the Bush years, he was an expert of sorts, though probably not in foreign policy.

    So pooor Mousavi's feelings are hurt. Awe shucks. I wonder how he felt about his entire country being labelled the axis of evil?

    It looks like Mousavi has proven Obama's point about him and Ahmadenijad being "two of a kind." After all, both of them seem to have mastered the capacity to defacate out of every orifice.

    As always, Thanks for the laughs BigPasture . Keep em coming.

    Posted by Shingo at 06/22/2009 @ 10:20pm

22. Where is my post?

    Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 06/23/2009 @ 05:33am

23. I agree with Pjcasey that no one can be trusted. That is because of the already mentioned hypocricy contaminating politics as a whole. But we should also know that the massmedia(except a few) predictate our terminology and our opinions. Politics only describe two options of action against dictatorships:first one is the confrontation with war and secondly diplomacy, whatever that means.Diplomacy mostly means to cuddle up with tyrannic regimes and making big business behind the medial facade and on the other side tell everyone in the corrupt medias that there are sanctions imposed against the regime, which only weakens the people and not the rulers and dictators. In none of these options one could experience throughout the history a GOOD WILL from the western politicians to the people of the third world, no matter Iran or Zimbabwe. But the people of the third world also know about real conspiracies, not only conspiracy theories, which do not brainwash the so called democratic world. As Roosevelt said: "Nothing in the politics occurs coincidentally." And he was and is damn right.Everything is forced by the secret services, megalomaniac societies like the Bilderberger or Skull and Bones and global players, in a frame of a masterplan being made for longer periods for the whole planet. In order to discuss sanely in the real frame of facts,we should rethink the whole system being introduced to us by the media. This system which is terminologically euphemistic and tries to pull the wool over our eyes contains the categories:Nations(mostly all Nations are forced to follow the masterplan and are playing roles as enemies or friends, but behind the medial facade they are controlled by the already mentioned megalomaniacs); To be continued

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/23/2009 @ 07:22am

24. Polticians(who would you think is the most powerful man in the world? Did you say Barack Obama? Well I do not think so.); Terms: Democracy, Free World, Civilization, Nation, Development ...( its about euphemism which means wrapping something evil in a well sounding term, one could also call this Hypocricy)

    It is time for the mankind to rethink the whole system. Without being threatful, I have to admit if the powerful men of this planet soon do not rethink their inner values and do not come to their senses for a better and sounder living in a paradise called the Earth, then the Earth herself is going to strike back and the tiny man, no matter how powerful or destructive he can be, has lost again. It is also time to free the mankind from the mass-slavery which they are put into for centuries. The only chance these men have is this momentum and the only light being spread to brighten the path are these thoughts or similar ones being thought by the real children of the Earth

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/23/2009 @ 07:55am

25. Occam's Razor presents this analysis: The necons are Likud lackies and they are manipulating through such organs as AIPAC the debate in the US to the extent that we would abandon our attack against a band of psychos who had attacked us in pursuit of nations which threaten Israel. It's like George governing Lenny in Of Mice and Men with the exception that this particular George is using Lenny for an offstage sponsor. The wonders of campaign finance and the sole interest of politicians combine to assure we have no effective debate on Israel - until Obama.

    The Repugnants are split between Policy and Pandering, with the more thoughtful among that sad outpost in the former camp. Those who bleat their bombastic battle cries have no interest in cause or effect beyond the echo chambers of their hollow little bases.

    It is ridiculous to give old man Magoo and his ilk so much attention, but, then, they are effective as wrang-wrangs in close support of reason by demonstrating the eerie irrational other side.

    Posted by Tremonius at 06/23/2009 @ 09:42am

26. Gaischild,

    You say it is time for mankind to rethink the whole system.

    You don't need to worry...2 people already have.

    Algore and Obama.....they have the answers and are the shining lights....all we need to do is see their wisdom and follow them to save ourselves and save the earth....

    As they lead the way, the day will be here shortly when the Imperialist American and Zionist Israeli militaries will be disarmed and disbanded and from that moment on there will be total world peace....

    Obama will visit each country on earth and deliver a hearfelt apology for all the past wrongs committed by America, a recognition of all the crimes from past to present that we are guilty of, with an acknowlegement that Americans will wear a scarlet letter of shame for the rest of recorded time to recognize and show remorse for all the damage we have done.

    It will be a beautiful world.....

    No woman will ever have to fear that her right to choose will ever be taken away from her.

    There will be no more pollution on the planet, our mother ship Earth will be save and secure once we follow Algore's advice.

    There will be world peace, there will be no weapons, no crime, no war, no guns, just peace and love.

    Everything will be fair and equal and totally free....all people will have all things equally...and totally free...completely free....

    Except automobiles, which won't exist anyway, they are the greatest threat to civilization, and Algore will rid us of this horrible menace for once and all.

    The yoke of opression at the hands of capitalists, neocons, imperialists, right-wing extremists will be lifted for once and for all....

    It just brings tears to your eyes how wonderful and beautiful it will be..........

    Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 09:47am

27. Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 09:47am

    SJ's cynicism is well-placed.

    After all, HIS guys controlled everything from 2003-2006 and promised endless prosperity from tax cuts for the top 2%...and wars that were "in their last throes" (for 4+ years)...and look how miserably THEY failed.

    Anybody who buys into Utopia brought to you by a political party, is buying a pig in a poke....just ask the conservatives!

    Posted by Mask at 06/23/2009 @ 11:06am

28. Mask,

    Who promised endless prosperity? The tax cuts pulled the economy out of the recession that started at the end of Clinton's term and that took a huge hit as a result of September 11. The tax cuts enabled economic recovery.

    Who said the "wars were in their last throes"? You will mention the "mission accomplished" thing, but you forget we were told that we were going to be fighting the War on Terror for a long time, that it would be a long stuggle.

    And we will be, Obama seems to have declared it over, but it is not over, hopefully in private he realizes that.

    No conservative promised Utopia. It is not up to politicans to provide people Utopia. Most people do not want Utopia. They want opportunity so they can strive for and achieve success on their own, and then be in a position to help others do the same.

    Only one side of the political fence promises Utopia, and that Utopia never happens. We are being promised it again.

    I am reading a book about Lyndon B. Johnson right now, the book is at home and I am not home right now so I do not remember the title. I have read quite a few books about President Johnson.

    There was a lot of starry eyed idealism about the hoped-for results of the Great Society.....but that fell apart in a big way, didn't it?

    Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 11:55am

29. Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 11:55am

    Really, sjcher.....conservatism isn't the one and ONLY answer for prosperity, peace, partridges in pear trees, etc.?

    You mean it's NOT 100% practically perfect in every way (Mary Poppins?)?????

    Posted by Mask at 06/23/2009 @ 1:15pm

30. Mask,

    You are opening up a pandora's box there by mentioning Mary Poppins......because

    She did say that "Just a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down..."

    and if some people in these threads see the name Mary Poppins and her advice from the movie.......

    They will be posting in and screaming how cruel Mary Poppins was to tell people that sugar will help their medicine go down when they of course do not have medicine because.....

    of the wicked insurance companies, George W. Bush, the neocons, probably Israel, Dick Cheney, etc etc etc etc......

    and they will say how good it is that residents of Windsor, Ontario are driving to Buffalo, New York to get the medicine and how smart and cost effective that is......

    and how Mary Poppins really should have been singing "Just a spoonful of sugar and a dollop of single-payer will help the medicine (that you now have because of Obama) go down, in the most delightful way!"

    .....I am just mentioning Mask that you bring up one thing and it may kick off other unexpected conversations on these threads....

    Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 1:35pm

31. All these tears for the Iranian protesters. Is this the same country whose secretary of state said the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth the price of maintaining the sanctions against Iraq? The same country that has bombed 3 Muslim countries (Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan)? That refused to recognize the election of Hamas (in Palestine) and FIS (Algeria). Who's president, the one who walks on water, visited the two most repressive Muslim countries (Saudi, Egypt) and said not a word about the repression and human rights abuses in those countries? Need I go on....

    Posted by lingum at 06/23/2009 @ 2:28pm

32. Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 1:35pm

    I notice you didn't deny what I said, SJ.

    Isn't conservatism the "answer to it all"?

    Just like that "magical liberal land Utopia scenario" you concocted....except it's TRUE when it comes to conservatism, right?

    Once we get "real conservatives" in the White House, Congress, all 9 seats on the Supreme Court, all the governors and state houses, mayorships, etc....

    best of all possible worlds....no?

    (BTW, others...watch how SJ still won't answer...cuz he knows he'll look like...what he mocked "at 06/23/2009 @ 09:47am".)

    Posted by Mask at 06/23/2009 @ 2:56pm

33. Dear Mask and dear Sjchermak, your argue or fight is a prime example of what politics can do to us human beings, namely:to split. And I dont think that any politician has any power to bring us peace. This task has to be done by the industries and the secret societies like Bilderberger. The effect of the mass media on both of you and the cultivation of ideals which actually are NOT yours and belong to those puppet- politicians like Obama or McCain and their bosses, is obvious and sad alike. Please understand once for all that PEACE starts within. And if you guys want to work for peace you can start with not selling your intellect to wrong ideals being sold by the media. I do not want to dictate to you what to do or not, but it is actually me and not Obama who is carrying the light. I am like a sign: You can read and adopt or read and ignore. Its up to you. www.erdkind.multiply.com

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/23/2009 @ 3:02pm

34. Gaiaschild,

    1. Who said I was in an argument or fight with Mask?

    I honestly do not know what one would call a conversation with Mask, what definition one would apply to that. And it is probably better not to try and figure that out.

    2. You say that you are the one carrying the light, not Obama....

    Comment: You had better get the word out, maybe you have started doing that, because right now a lot of people are following Obama.

    3. On your blog you say "By Entering this blog you are also entering my head"

    Comment: Should I eat dinner first, or do you have concession stands and snack bars in there if one gets hungry during the journey?

    4. You say on your blog you are looking for friends.

    Comment: Which is it? In the blog you are looking for friends, in your post above you say people should be looking for you.

    5. You say your hometown is Berlin/Tehran/San Francisco

    Comment: Looks like you are spread pretty thin. I have lived near Oakland, in the East Bay, but I have never been anywhere near Berlin or Tehran.

    6. It doesn't say (upon quick inspection) how old you are....since you are from Berlin were you there for JFK's Ich Bin Ein Berliner speech, one of the greatest speeches in history and 180 degrees opposite what a current day Democrat would say?

    7. It says one of your interests is basketball. I am a Sacramento Kings fan and also a Philadelphia 76ers fan. How about you? Do you follow the Golden State Warriors? I hope not, I don't think anybody cares about them, and of course right now the Lakers are the world champs so they are currently California's team. (Unfortunately for the Kings they always have been).

    .... just some things I was wondering about if I am to follow you and not Obama....I already know about him.

    Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 3:35pm

35. The tax cuts pulled the economy out of the recession that started at the end of Clinton's term...

    Posted by sjchermak at 06/23/2009 @ 11:55am

    First, the housing bubble is was staved of economic downturn, nto tax cuts.

    Secondly, a recession is 2 consecutive quarters of economic growth. Please provide the proof that there were 2 2 consecutive quarters of economic growth before 2007.

    Also, the war on Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror, because Saddam had no connection with the terrorists that attacked us.

    Posted by Shingo at 06/23/2009 @ 6:51pm

36. To Sjchermak: Are you serious? Is THAT your answer to my comment? to ridicule and to deflect?! Is it on purpse, that you are not talking about the core subject? I really dont know what to say...with your last statements you are not only discrediting yourself but also your so called colleagues...this is my last question: Are you a child who is writing in the web, because he is bored? Please understand that I am not replying to you anymore, because you have proven, that you cant carry out a dialogue seriously.

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 04:36am

37. Elections in Iran (By Rafey Habib)

    The state totters.

    A colour revolution.

    This time, green. The colour of reason, Moderate faith, Against the rotting Roots, black and red, Out of season, Ready for death.

    And you have shown Your true colour, you Who send your men Into your people, To beat with batons, Water, tear-gas; Who hide, like all Cowards, your fear Behind your flag.

    Tears will find you out.

    And you too, show Your colour, you Fake lovers of freedom, Who smile as tyrants Old or new Play your cards for you.

    Tears will cloud your grins.

    You who love your people, Let your colour thrive: The colour of earth, growth, life, Let your good give birth To your true nation.

    Let your past of splendour Now return, to fill Your future, to waken To its new legacy Your tottering state, Your green faith, Your democracy, Dreaming to be Born.

    Posted by mhabib at 06/24/2009 @ 08:23am

38. "This task has to be done by the industries and the secret societies like Bilderberger."---Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/23/2009 @ 3:02pm

    Gaia, SJCHER and I may disagree on matters of politics. And I may think him simplistic, even hypocritical on occasion...

    but he is not a complete wacko who thinks "secret societies run everything."

    So on that, he and I are in congenial agreement.

    Posted by Mask at 06/24/2009 @ 11:03am

39. To mhabib: A Poem is a message from above A Poet is the medium of heaven Poetry for the GOOD is genius

    Thank you for this wonderful poem and the best wishes for you mhabib :)

    P.S: may I put this poem on my blog?

    www.erdkind.multiply.com

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 11:07am

40. to mask: Do you mean I am a wacko ;)? Well the conspiracy analysts(NOT theorists) are being insulted in many ways by the brainwashed-mediahypnotized majority, which would sell the own mother for dollars, but thanx anyways, because wacko isnt that bad.

    Republican or democrat they just want them bellies fat Now who YOU votin for? Who's your bloodsucker? Dont you know you're supportin a big ...?

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 11:18am

41. Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 11:18am

    Me?....why Ron Paul of course.

    Oh, wait, he's a Republican, so evil and tainted.

    How about Ralph Nader?....but he's been around a lot and may have connections to the CFR.

    Paul Craig Roberts?....hmmm? But he worked for REAGAN!?!?!?

    Art Bell?....nope, voted for Obama.

    I know...David Icke. No, he's not a citizen.

    Okay, who should I vote for that "knows the Truth about the Fed, the Mossad agents at the Twin Towers, and Roswell"???

    Posted by Mask at 06/24/2009 @ 12:19pm

42. You are so right...cant trust anyone anymore in the politics...cuz politics has no sense and meaning anymore because of the euphemism and hypocrism throughout the history. exactly this is one of the biggest questions i am asking: How come that after so many betrayals Human beings couldnt build an alternative concept for Politics like "global selforganization" maybe? I think it is because there were always monsters in the skin of human beings who had no principles and ethics and did EVERYTHING to gain power and money? Is this what its all about? Power and money? And I can see through you, mask! I know every one of your tactics, which is pickin up a piece of ones statement and bullridin on it...its tiring and boring alike. Please give me a more hollistic and integrated answer, not as sjchermak did:pointin out 7 topics and sayin absolutely nothing...please do it better or let it be...thx

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 12:40pm

43. Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 12:40pm

    Okay, here's a "hollistic and integrated" answer...

    folks like you, really don't add much to the discussion...yet you insist on inserting yourself.

    Since you "remain above it all" and poo-poo EVERYTHING, not just a modicum of cynicism (which I respect and do myself), but these wide-spanning "It's all crap...all of it...and A Cabal runs the show anyway so what's the point" self-indulgences...are just that...self-indulgent.

    What exactly do you expect to be engendered by your attitude? "Yeah! You tell 'em, Gaia. Everything is pointless, just meditate and eat tofu"? Not likely, since I think you know that's not what most people's attitude would be, even very cynical Left.

    No, mostly people like you just want to feel superior and "No longer blinded by the illusions that you poor unfiormed types are"....and who needs that kind of crap really???

    Posted by Mask at 06/24/2009 @ 2:12pm

44. Are you mad? Didnt I advised you to 'let it be', if you have not a reasonable and holistic answer? Well if you, as your colleague did, try to ridicule my spiritual way of life, then I would say:non of my business:)this is your karma.and that is the point: Believe in your humane ethical consciousness and you will be happy with what you got. These so called eager people running from one place to other, speculating on wall street,destroying our nature because of money,beating and torturing in iranian or chinese prisons or spreading lies around the globe from the white house or from the friday mass-prayer in Tehran, do NOT have any clue what is life all about. Life is not a jungle, where you wipe out others in order to survive. This is not a survive-thing anymore. This is lunatic, where one megalomaniac tries to become even bigger and thinks he has to rule over the world. Life is a test, where these guys have failed and have to come back to this place again in order to balance out everything, what they have brought to disequilibrium. And those who strive for real humane values and are really GOOD people are going to the next dimension with much better conditions than here. This is the meaning of heaven and hell. Heaven is right here, but are you grown ups enchanted as a child to SEE heaven? Or are you empoisoned with cupidity and greed where you can not even wish the good for your fellow brother and sister.

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 5:01pm

45. Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 5:01pm

    Have you turned 15 yet?

    Posted by winyahn at 06/24/2009 @ 9:10pm

46. Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/24/2009 @ 5:01pm

    Have you turned 15 yet?

    Posted by winyahn at 06/24/2009 @ 9:10pm

    ROFLMAO....I WAS going to say something...but winy, that pretty much summed it all up. Thanks!

    Posted by Mask at 06/25/2009 @ 07:46am

47. Could it be that the elections in Iran actually were fair? Esam Al-Amin has an interesting perspective at

    http://www.counterpunch.org/amin06222009.html

    Posted by Mistral at 06/25/2009 @ 08:10am

48. Thanx for discrediting yourselves guys. By the way I mislike tofu too:) Gaias Child

    Posted by Gaiaschild at 06/25/2009 @ 08:45am