Killer Economics

We don't need a 100-day reckoning to know the score: war, recession, violence in Pakistan and now a global epidemic.

The landscape before us is a pretty tense: more than thirteen million unemployed, falling prospects, rising gun sales, not to mention the foreclosure of probably an additional ten million homes. Many are fearing a long hot summer, the implications of which will be felt across the land. And now there's Swine Flu. 

It's funny that when it comes to Swine flu, we get it.  When we're talking about the human body, we seem to understand that vulnerable parts put the whole body politic at risk.

In the face of a virus it makes perfect sense: germs don't discriminate. Poisons spread.  Switch to the topic of poverty and predatory lending,  and we have a problem grasping the basics. Yet exploitation and corruption  jump fences too. The epidemic of predatory lending, for example, began by targeting Black, Latino (especially female) borrowers, but predatory practices didn't stay in the 'hood. 

On Sunday, as 20 cases of swine flu were confirmed, American health officials declared a public health emergency. After scares from SARS and bird flu a few years ago, international protocols were put in place to deal with global pandemics.  At a news conference in DC, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano called the flu emergency declaration "standard operating procedure." 

Imagine if we'd declared an Economic Health Emergency after Enron, and the Asian financial crisis of 1997 and the collapse and devaluation of the Russian ruble?

What we need are some standard operating procedures to deal with a plague of killer economics. Reading today's New York Times about the Treasury Secretary's cosy professional and personal relationship with the very industry he was supposed to regulate, it's clear that quarantine would have served us well. 

In the case of epidemics, we investigate the causes and isolate the carriers. On the economic front, so far, we've forged forward without virtually no diagnosis -- and promoted the virus-carriers to high office.

So what, now?  Well, we'll need more than a face mask to protect us from Geithneritis. And no amount of Theraflu will do.

Laura Flanders is the host of GRITtv which broadcasts weekdays on Free Speech TV (Dish Network Ch. 9415) on cable (8 pm ET on Channel 67 in Manhattan and other cities) and online daily at GRITtv.org and TheNation.com.

Comments (44)

1. Excellent points, Ms. Flanders.

   It seems that we've been infected for so long and to such a debilitating degree we now find that simply addressing the root cause of the illness is apparently beyond our capabilities.

   Here's a fine synopsis of the situation I think:

   tinyurl.com/cfcsgo

   Excerpt:

   About a month before Barack Obama announced his candidacy for the presidency of the United States, former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski appeared on PBS's Charlie Rose Show and was asked whether he thought Obama would be a good choice for president. Brzezinski paused for a minute, peered at Rose out of the corner of his eye, and answered, "Just think of the symbolism." As soon as he said that, Brzezinski and Rose broke out into laughter as though they were sharing a private joke.

   Brzezinski was right, of course. Obama was the perfect choice for president. Not because of his experience. He had none. He was a two year senator with a resume' small enough to fit on the back of a matchbox. Still Obama had what Brzezinski and Co. were looking for, symbolism; the kind of symbolism that connected him to people around the world and made them feel like one of their own had finally clawed their way to the top. Even better, Obama was a charismatic populist who could fill stadiums with adoring fans and put a benign face on America's interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq. What more could Brzezinski hope for? After 8 years of dragging "Brand America" through the mud, the country would finally get the emergency facelift it needed and begin to restore its battered image as the world's indispensable nation.

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 5:00pm

2. cont.

   For leftists, Obama has been a total bust. He's escalated the war in Afghanistan, increased the cross-border bombings of Pakistan, hemmed and hawed about prosecuting war crimes, refused to actively lobby House members to make it easier for workers to organize (EFCA), and surrounded himself with bank industry reps who've committed $12.8 trillion to sinking financial institutions with no assurance that the money would be repaid. Apart from a trifling bill on stem cells, Obama has done absolutely zero to confirm his bona fides as a liberal. The truth is, Obama is neither liberal nor conservative; he's simply an inspiring orator and a skillful politician who has no strong convictions about anything. If he achieves greatness, it will be because he was thrust into a crisis he couldn't avoid and reluctantly acted in the best interests of the American people. That possibility still exists, although it seems more unlikely by the day.

   End quote

   I highly recommend the full column by Mike Whitney at Counterpunch today.

   tinyurl.com/cfcsgo

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 5:00pm

3. geithner is summers' pawn.....

   Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 5:36pm

4. by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 5:00pm...

   Downer... I don't agree.

   Obama is integrating... both at home and around the world. Change comes from within... and requires a complicit acceptance of 'what is' in order to be able to access 'what ought to be'.

   Armed insurrection... whether it be with guns, words or money... can't give us lasting success, and is morally questionable... not to mention undemocratic...;^)

   Remember that ol' pendulum? Adding to its momentum now can lead to backlash down the road...

   Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 5:52pm

5. ttr,

   your support of prime minister obama is "nice".

   may i kindly suggest, however, taking a more detached view of events.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 6:00pm

6. Aw, Frosty... that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day!

   Really though... I think you are trying to eat a cake that isn't baked yet. Obama's just pulling all the ingredients out of the cupboards, and reading recipes...

   Heck... he's only now starting to get the mess put away and cleaned up from the massive food fight mess left over from the last shift...;^)

   Or... would you rather eat your cake while you make it? It'll be a cake walk...;^)

   Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 6:20pm

7. ttr,

   I'm not sure what it is precisely that you're saying, dude. And I didn't mention or imply anything about "armed insurrection" --with or without guns, words or money. Although I would add as an aside that "armed" implies with weapons.

   In any case, if you took a moment to actually read the entire Mike Whitney column --perhaps ten minutes at most-- the excerpts from Harold Pinter's Nobel acceptance speech alone are worth the expenditure of your time and attention.

   Barack Obama seems like a nice enough guy. Unfortunately, the fundamental circumstances that have developed in the American political scene going back at least as far as WWII are not going to simply disappear. It's going to take a very deliberate and concerted effort to break the spell we are under.

   If anything, it saddens me that so few of my fellow citizens --regardless of where they lie on the so called left-right spectrum-- seem to have a soundly based grasp of how profound a headlock this nation is under.

   In any case, if Barack Obama is as sharp as we hope he is, he's going to need some serious help from the citizenry in order to pull off the practical miracle of saving this nearly doomed behemoth of nation.

   You can help by getting on board, ttr.

   P.S. William Blum's now classic, "Killing Hope", is a virtual encyclopedia of past U.S. global transgressions. It can be found in many libraries or at Amazon. It's worth your perusal as well.

   Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 6:55pm

8. K, B cool... I read it... nice overview. Kind of a hodge-podge of leftist criterion and labeling though...

   Like...

   "It's highly unlikely that a black man with a background in community organizing really believes that expanding the war in Afghanistan is the right thing to do. Nor is it likely that he supports wiretapping, the crackdown on immigrants, penalizing sellers of medical marijuana, trillion dollar bank bailouts or "enhanced" interrogation. He is merely reading from the script that he has been given. But as the economic crisis deepens and the country becomes more radicalized and politically unstable, that script will have to be tossed aside. Obama will have plenty of opportunities to shrug off his handlers and show what he's really made of. Perhaps he is a great man after all."

   ...isn't a racial slur... or an acknowledgment of Obama's undisturbed potential for unprecedented positive change...

   Methinks you fail to question your own cynicism... and consequentially... its qualitative effects on the world around you... like so many of us mistakenly do.

   Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 7:40pm

9. ttr:

   the problem is that mr. obama has hired bakers who insist on using Acesulfame K, BHA & BHT, and Olestra.

   if only he'd get some whole grain specialists....

   Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 7:54pm

10. "Methinks you fail to question your own cynicism..."

    ~Ned "ttr" Flanders

    Okee-dokee, ttr.

    *Cynicism has an interesting history, but it's not really my bag, dude. I'm more an enthusiast of, for example, David Hume/J.S. Mill/Friedrich Nietzsche/John Dewey/William James/Bertrand Russell/and a little Sartre/Camus for good measure.

    And the popular science writing of Carl Sagan has been a favorite influence as well, but I'm still a work in progress.

    But more to the point, ttr, perhaps it's you that need to question your own attitude(s)?

    * The name Cynic derives from the Greek word κυνικός, kunikos, "dog-like" and that from κύων, kuôn, "dog". One explanation offered in ancient times for why the Cynics were called dogs was because the first Cynic, Antisthenes, taught in the Cynosarges gymnasium at Athens. The word Cynosarges means the place of the white dog. It seems certain, however, that the word dog was also thrown at the first Cynics as an insult for their shameless rejection of conventional manners, and their decision to live on the streets. Diogenes, in particular, was referred to as the Dog, a distinction he seems to have revelled in, stating that "other dogs bite their enemies, I bite my friends to save them." --from Wiki.

    I can honestly say I haven't gotten to the point of biting anyone just yet, ttr.

    In closing....a classic meditation from Flanders:

    Why me, Lord? I've always been good. I don't drink or dance or swear. I've even kept kosher just to be on the safe side. I've done everything the Bible says! Even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff! What more can I do? I...I..I feel like I wanna yell out, but I just can't dang-darn-diddly-darn-dang-ding-dong-diddly-darned do it! I just...I...*sigh*

    Come on, ttr, let it out, man!

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 8:54pm

11. well folks, as i've said before many times...

    THE DYSTOPIC FUTURE IS NOW!!!!!

    and i feeeeelllll fiiinnneee!

    time for shaved apes to wake up and smell the funk. hooooey! just wait til the ice starts REALLY melting and sea levels rise. coming sooner than we think!

    i think it IS time to purchase another weapon. ww2 vintage M1 has always been a fave of mine. them krauts may have had the edge in tank technology, but nobody made a better rifle than the m1...

    but of course thats all just crazy talk. everything's gonna be alright!

    wonder why so many people have trouble understanding ecological catasstrophe and malthusian nightmares as well as "ekomonics"?

    oh yeah! decades of spoiled, trivialized, "good amurikin livin'"!

    offer me solutions, offer me alternatives and I DE-CLINE!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/27/2009 @ 9:29pm

12. by b_kool_66 at 04/27/2009 @ 8:54pm...

    Whatever, Dude...;^)

    Yeah... I did the Diogenes web thing too... and theres a dog on his monument... I did Camus and Sartre... and Neitzsche and Dostoyevski... Shopenhauer and Kant... Plato and Socrates... 'Be Here Now' and the Old Testament... Blue Cheer and Mozart's 'Jupiter'... Ayn Rand and Annie Bessant... Anias Ninn and Krishnamurti... Adam Smith and Marx... Keynes and Galbraith...

    Been there... done that... and I'm still doing it and more.

    Life is rich. A cynic is a dead man walking... and there is a mysterious healing force enhanced by the teachings of Jesus.

    The head forms and gathers tools.

    The heart can heal the soul.

    The body does what it is told.

    Who does yours listen to?

    Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 11:05pm

13. The body does what it is told.

    Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 11:05pm

    perhaps cynicism could be viewed as pain -- if you didn't feel it, you would not know you were bleeding.

    or to better an earlier metaphor,

    if your cake had not been baked with toxic additives, perhaps you would not have such bad gas...

    remember,

    it was mr. bush's (et al.!) flatulence that knocked over the house of cards.

    <i>Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil, Going with the flow, it's all a game to me, Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you, Double up or quit, double stakes or splits, The Ace Of Spades The Ace Of Spades

    You know I'm born to lose, and gambling's for fools, But that's the way I like it baby, I don't wanna live forever, And Don't Forget The Joker</i>

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 11:12pm

14. spring sure is nice, though.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 11:13pm

15. nothing personal, mr. winter.

    hey ttr,

    i'm gonna be a zillionaire with my new karma off ray!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 11:14pm

16. Sure, frosty... cynicism is probably a symptom... and it is certainly not the cure... and most certainly, a cry for help...

    How shall we be worthy of the peaceful world we long to be a part of... when the slings and arrows of our foolish despair weighs so corrosively upon our personal affections?

    Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 11:30pm

17. I already patented my new Karma stun gun... it's solar powered, and never needs ironing!

    Just ask your local Karma dealership for details...

    Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 11:34pm

18. blasted!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 12:11am

19. How shall we be worthy of the peaceful world we long to be a part of... when the slings and arrows of our foolish despair weighs so corrosively upon our personal affections?

    Posted by ttr at 04/27/2009 @ 11:30pm

    i'm more worried about the slings and arrows of our tax dollars.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 12:12am

20. You win. Worry away... 'cause you're worrying for two now...;^)

    End Karma Now!

    Posted by ttr at 04/28/2009 @ 12:25am

21. careful, teeter.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 12:33am

22. "Regulators have told Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. that the banks may need to raise more capital based on early results of the government's so-called stress tests of lenders, according to people familiar with the situation."

    open up that pocketbook, mr. satisfied voter.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 01:23am

23. maybe mr. obama really does want the money back:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn0tMMYEkQU&&fmt=18

    (Air Force One Flyby Of Goldman Sachs Tower)

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 01:35am

24. is this your house, happy:

    http://www.beercanhouse.org/gallery.php

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 01:50am

25. Speaking of Karma, dudes, here's a haunting, lilting and somewhat cryptic little masterpiece:

    tinyurl.com/2dvuxo

    Unmistakable shades of the shovel scene in "Blood Simple". The entire record is one of the great ones in my opinion, "OK Computer".

    By the way, I got a kick out of the fact that FZ remembered my fondness for Motorhead's "Ace of Spades". I just wish the kick-ass puppet video was still available at youtube.

    Oh well.

    ~Peace out.... and best karma to you all, BK

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/28/2009 @ 02:18am

26. The 'healthy kind' of cynicism?

    The up-side of injury is its general encouragement to those who sustain it to be more careful... and to pay stricter attention.

    Don't be trying to assimilate the petty cynic into the high realm of consciousness. The cynic places huge stakes on a self fulfilling prophesy, and wraps up a world with out healing it.

    Just like you folks who constantly gibe me with 'what you know about me'... without being able to extend the understanding to the realities of kindness. It inspires pity... but only 'infects' others with universally undeserved suffering.

    Maybe empathize a bit more... and project a little less... K?

    Posted by ttr at 04/28/2009 @ 09:39am

27. Lack of cynicism (the healthy kind) is just as dangerous as wallowing in it...sadly, I think there's enough around that FZ can't make a dent worrying alone.

    Posted by snowball666 at 04/28/2009 @ 07:12am | ignore this person | warn this person

    'US home prices post 18.6 pct annual drop in Feb.

    Index shows US housing prices falling by 18.6 percent in February, but no annual record

    On Tuesday April 28, 2009, 9:29 am EDT

    NEW YORK (AP) -- Home prices dropped sharply in February, but for the first time in 25 months the decline was not a record, another sign the housing crisis could be bottoming.'

    Every Cloud Has a Silver Lining!

    The rate of price decline appears to be slowing - a sure sign that the housing crisis is bottoming (yeah right).....this is not to say that prices won't decline more, just not so rapidly.

    Look on the bright side!

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 09:50am

28. open up that pocketbook, mr. satisfied voter.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 01:23am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Can't wait to see the results of the upcoming Treasury Auctions in May. Wonder if the Federal Reserve is going to be the biggest buyer? Debt buying debt. Sounds a little Madoffian.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 09:54am

29. And why won't we admit that economic prevention is worth a pound of TARP/PPIP?

    Posted by snowball666 at 04/28/2009 @ 10:02am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Well said!

    You are right that much of the housing price data may be skewed by vulture buying rather than your "typical" buyer seeking shelter. It is of interest to note that speculative buyers did constitute approximately 30% of the market in the heyday of the boom.

    When housing prices fall to level where people can actually afford them based on their annual incomes, and factoring in that low mortgage rates generally can not be assumed on resale of the property, I think we may find a bottom. Subsidized interest rates such as the Fed Funds rates should be great concern to potential buyers. Anyone anticipating purchasing a home and a mortgage ought to be running the amortization table using at least 7-8% interest as a test of what future monthly payments will be for a prospective purchaser. How long the Gov can keep this economy from the ravages from inflation is uncertain. Given that real and nominal incomes haven't kept pace with asset appreciation for some time, and the likely prospect that this trend will continue, residential housing doesn't look like a barn burning investment idea for the foreseeable future. The pendulum does swing, however. Creative financing and tax loopholes have shown a remarkable ability to be resistant to eradication - like many infectious diseases and illnesses.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 10:21am

30. is this your house, happy:

    http://www.beercanhouse.org/gallery.php

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 01:50am

    I have never actually visited that house even though I have seen photos of it many times over the years. Wonder how it sounds inside when the sky is pouring rain or wind is really blowing...hehehehe!

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 10:35am

31. Yep - consider $200,000 loan at 5% interest 30 years fixed versus $200,000 at 8%, 30 year fixed. Monthly payment differential is $1073/mo. versus $1467/mo. To maintain the same monthly payment at 8%, the loan value must fall to $150,000 for a prospective purchaser of your home. That is $50,000 off the purchase price, assuming similar downpayment and term scenarios. Interest rate risk is something alot of people don't understand, but is very real.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 10:41am

32. ......risk is something alot of people don't understand, but is very real.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 10:41am

    The `what one doesn't know, can't hurt' mentality....works great most of the times.

    I know I've mentioned it....but in recent weeks, I've been busy looking at properties for my older First-Time Buyer son to buy....got the target narrowed down to a few and just waiting to see if prices get lower....especially the vacant ones. He's Pre-Approved at 7% but lower in amount than I'd wanted.....rather it had been for $20k more (more firepower and leverage :~) at a more likely <6% rate.

    Not much time to pull the trigger....he'll quit his job in July to get ready for Med School.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 10:59am

33. Not much time to pull the trigger....he'll quit his job in July to get ready for Med School.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 10:59am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Look at the vacant houses - generally motivated sellers or bank REOs, or perhaps ones that are short sale. There are good deals to be had where there is duress. Saw a article the other day that "the experts" are anticipating another 15% down in the residential market overall, and 33% in overheated markets like SoCal and SoFla.

    Market timing is tough, but this housing crisis isn't like the stock market with cash on the sidelines waiting to flood back in. The financing rules (as you and son found out) have changed or more accurately, resorted to normal.

    If you are in need....now is a great time to buy. I've been hearing of Boca condos selling for $10,000. If you are speculating, exceptional deals are to be found, but if you are negotiating arms length transactions w/o undue duress on the part of either party, I think there is no rush.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 11:35am

34. Now for the tough decisions...buy the house and take out a line on the equity once the vaccine is available, or rent and quit my job to avoid the epidemic now.

    Posted by snowball666 at 04/28/2009 @ 11:33am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Understood that 200K is more like the downpayment in your market - just using it as an example nation-wide.

    If you avoid PMI - that theoretically is 20% equity right off. Rack up that credit card debt and pay it off with home equity loan - and it is tax deductible! What are home equity loan interest rates right now.....about 30%?.....lol.................

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 11:45am

35. Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 10:59am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Hap - do ya know if the First Time Home Buyer Credit must be taken in the year of purchase? For instance - your son going to med school wouldn't have much income to offset......how does it work?

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 11:47am

36. Wonder how it sounds inside when the sky is pouring rain or wind is really blowing...hehehehe!

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 10:35am

    i lived in a house with a metal roof.

    in a city where it rains 300 days a year!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2009 @ 12:11pm

37. Bonds Show 'Terrifying' Economic Weakness: Hendry On Tuesday April 28, 2009, 11:26 am EDT CNBC - Excerpt

    'World gross domestic product looks overestimated, because global consumption has been based on debt, and this cannot continue, Hendry told "Squawk Box Europe."

    "In the last five weeks we had a rally in risk. Big deal," he said.

    "I am fearful of the surplus countries, like China and Germany. I think GDP has been overstated," Hendry added.

    "My notion was, you had Bernie Madoff doing US GDP accounting." China "built capacity to serve a world that doesn't exist. We're drowning in capacity. The idea to propose we build more... that ain't a remedy," he explained.

    Although companies' results beat forecasts, this is mainly because they marked their expectations too low, but their outlook is grim, according to Hendry.

    "I believe the downturn in the global economy still has a way to run. We've only been given evidence of further deterioration," he said.

    The rise in bond yields shows that the yield curve is flattening, pointing to more economic weakness ahead.

    "What it reveals is that it's terrifying. This rise in bond yields shows... the private sector is countering the Fed and is tightening policy," Hendry said.

    During the Great Depression, there had been rallies in the stock market, but stocks generally fell, Hendry reminded, explaining his bearish stance on stocks. He added that nobody can predict where the bottom was for the stock market.

    "Monkeys spend all their time picking bottoms. I refuse to pick bottoms as I don't live in trees," he said.'

    Catch the drift - bond yields rising.....collaterized debt obligations based on mortgage backed securitization sure to follow. Here we go.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 12:38pm

38. Hap - do ya know if the First Time Home Buyer Credit must be taken in the year of purchase? For instance - your son going to med school wouldn't have much income to offset......how does it work?

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 11:47am

    No......a Buyer has two years to use up the $8k tax credit....key is the house must be bought before by Dec. 1, 2009.

    It's true that my son won't be able to get the full $8k credit....he makes good money (almost $50k)...but at least, he'll get all of his w/holdings (for this year) back next year when he files.

    Since I'm a licensed RE broker, between the commission I'll get and his tax credit, the total will come close enough (to the $8k tax credit) to make this worth the effort. I get another rental property for very little out-of-pocket costs. We'll keep the loan in his name to build credit history.

    As an investor, I can't get any better than 70 to 75% financing....and even then, my rate is usually at least 1% higher than an owner-occupant buyer. Now, I (via my son) get to buy one at 90~95% financing at dirt-cheap rate.

    Was at an ex-coworker Happy Hour gathering last Thursday....a guy I haven't met for years, already did just that for his 20-something stepson....closed the buy just a week before.

    While I'm against this kinda of tax give-aways, I'll say this, at least this Giveaway will increase the number of purchases....but I'll bet, the beneficiaries are mostly folks like us.....take what is free when you can.

    This is as close to how it must feel to be an Octomom or some scheming welfare recipient as I'll ever get......damn, sure can be addictive just thinking about feeding at the public trough.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 4:17pm

39. Look at the vacant houses - generally motivated sellers or bank REOs, or perhaps ones that are short sale......I think there is no rush.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 11:35am

    I love to talk RE........

    Actually, the best deal I saw IS a short sale....but given that the wait is 60 to 90 days for Lender response/decision, I can't afford to take the chance to be beaten out or even to wait for the full 60~90 days. Remember, my son must be employed at the time of loan/purchase closing.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 4:20pm

40. Actually, the best deal I saw IS a short sale....but given that the wait is 60 to 90 days for Lender response/decision, I can't afford to take the chance to be beaten out or even to wait for the full 60~90 days. Remember, my son must be employed at the time of loan/purchase closing.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 4:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Yep....too long to close. Hap - you sure that the government doesn't just write your son a check for $8,000 even though he has no taxable income? The 2009 Law is different from the 2008 rules apparently.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 6:19pm

41. you sure that the government doesn't just write your son a check for $8,000 even though he has no taxable income? The 2009 Law is different from the 2008 rules apparently.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 6:19pm

    I'm NOT sure....the article I clipped out of the WSJ said that the IRS "may give you a refund even if you owe no tax".

    Like most Gubber programs, the rules are complicated and user UNfriendly.....but there is a form, 5405, that supposed went `hot' at the IRS website on March 30 for folks needing it for Tax Year 2008.

    Anywho....if he can get all $8k, we'll be all smiles.....but for now, I'll be HAPPY if he just gets back all income taxes for this (2009) to-be truncated year.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 9:49pm

42. Anywho....if he can get all $8k, we'll be all smiles.....but for now, I'll be HAPPY if he just gets back all income taxes for this (2009) to-be truncated year.

    Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 9:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Yeah....it is confusing. Sounds like they are just going to send you a check even though you may not have tax liability at all. Anyway, sounds like you are in the black with taxable income to be offset by the credit.

    Geez......what a goofy giveaway. Heard the premise of this credit is to offset closing costs. Yeah....grab this deal why you can.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 9:55pm

43. Posted by Happy at 04/28/2009 @ 9:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    I noticed a good thing about the 2009 rule is that the credit needs to repaid only if the home is sold prior to expiration of 36 months. 2008 Law was 15 years as I recall.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/28/2009 @ 10:11pm

44. "geithner is summers' pawn....."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2009 @ 5:36pm

    Which begs the question: whose pawn is summers?

    Posted by V at 04/29/2009 @ 1:09pm