"Occupy Everything Right Now"

So said one of the signs at the student occupation of the New School's building at 65 Fifth Avenue, which was met with a phalanx of NYC cops, pepper spray and mass arrests at the request of New School prez Bob Kerrey's administration. On the surface, the students seem a scruffy, wild-eyed lot--tats and unruly beards, raised fists and bold slogans. It's easy for the press to dismiss them as merely "angry" and impetuous. Indeed, comments on the NYT city blog positively seethe with contempt.

"These immature adults are nothing more than terrorists..I would Taser them," writes one poster. "I hope the New School will treat these self-absorbed brats the same way NYU did...paying tuition does NOT mean you get a voice in how the university is run," says another. "A protest that appears to lack direction and realistic demands," quibbles a third.

The harshest of these comments come from the right, but there's an echo of such animosity from the world-weary left as well--a tendency to roll eyes and scoff at the students' naivete. Earlier this year, when NYU students occupied the student center, some left-leaning faculty privately complained that they couldn't totally support the students because of their naive strategy and incoherent, sprawling demands. (One of the students' demands, for example, was to set aside a number of scholarships for students from the Occupied Territories.) Many faculty eventually signed a letter protesting the NYU administration's treatment of the demonstrators, but few prominent figures or outside movements came to the student's defense, and the whole incident fizzled in public consciousness as just another rash, incidental campus uprising.

And then there's the state of general malaise that seems to preoccupy the left now. If there's so much roiling populist anger, where are the mass street protests in the US that would rival those in Greece, Latvia and France (see Sudhir Venkatesh's op-ed and Stephen Greenhouse's analysis of American labor's relative docility)? If only 53 percent of Americans believe capitalism is better than socialism, as a recent Rasmussen poll reports, why aren't the people storming the palace?

There's some sort of strategic disconnect going on here between the lack of widespread support for the protests and radical tactics that actually exist and the hyperventilating about the left's (or populism's) allegedly moribund spirit. If mass mobilization is what you really want, you have to start somewhere, and the students, however goofy or shambolic, are one of the few organized forces willing to risk something.

And for the record, at the crux of both occupations lies a demand for greater accountability and transparency, for socially responsible investing, for greater democracy and more reasonable tuition rates. Writ large, these are values that go to the heart of the current economic crisis--the division of society into the haves and have nots and the impunity with which the elite (including the academic elite) run their institutions. If the student protests spread, there's no telling what other righteous fires they might start. The left, for example, might do well to look at the French protests of 2006, which began with students at a handful of campuses but eventually spread to 68 of 89 universities, incorporated trade unions, brought millions to the street, France to a standstill and eventually derailed a bill that would have made it easier to fire young workers.

We can wait for the perfect moment, or for the perfect, tidy platform, or for the perfect campaign that can't fail. And then, we will wait forever. In a time of such great suffering for so many, Occupy Everything Right Now seems just as good a banner around which to rally as any.

Comments (122)

1. Excellent post, I agree completely. We have a student movement in America that is getting revitalized, and we don't need people on the left talking down to and criticizing it for its "excesses" or "naivety". We see the state of the unions and the rest of the left in America and we don't see how the so-called "establishment left" is in any position to criticize.

   Posted by bhaskar at 04/10/2009 @ 6:13pm

2. Thanks for this excellent post. I was involved in the NYU occupation and am proud of the students at the New School. You hit the nail on the head- these protests involve issues far greater than simply internal-university discontent. This is about school, cities, and nations which lack democracy. I'm always amazed by the standards that we hold student protesters to. As if they are supposed to be strategic and savvy way beyond their years, while no one asks questions of the rich and powerful who run the universities. There is a long and proud tradition of students who call out the powerful, from the abolitionist students who founded Oberlin in the 1830s, to those who helped to end the Vietnam War. The fundamental problem of universities like NYU and the New School is the same problem that plagues our society at large- lack of democracy and the monopolization of power and resources by those on the top.

   Posted by PeterW at 04/10/2009 @ 6:28pm

3. While I certainly agree with the reasons for the protests - demanding scholarships for Palestinians from the occupied territories is a great idea - I'm skeptical about the prospect of students protesting a power structure that they are benefitting from and which they will be a part of some time after their graduation.

   Posted by syfriendly at 04/10/2009 @ 6:34pm

4. With the crippling student loans a lot of us are taking out, we are paying money to get an education (which should be a universal right), to contribute to the "power structure" you speak of.

   After college its not like students will have much of a choice. Want to do something more fulfilling--- activism, journalism, social work, teaching, etc etc. Remember those crippling student loans. It's just like indentured slavery--- a lot of students were forced to wall street and the investment banking firms, they didn't end up there entirely by choice.

   http://theactivist.org

   Posted by bhaskar at 04/10/2009 @ 7:19pm

5. After college its not like students will have much of a choice.

   Posted by bhaskar at 04/10/2009 @ 7:19pm

   Uh, that's the reason why they attend college, so that they can have better choices.

   How you manage to enterwine professions like teaching and social work with shameless bottom feeders like activists and journalists is beyond me.

   Posted by ACook at 04/10/2009 @ 8:28pm

6. Did this stuff "work" back when it was supposed to have "worked"?

   Maybe there's a reason the guys who did it 40 years ago are "rolling their eyes" at the ones doing it now, Mr Kim?

   Posted by Mask at 04/10/2009 @ 8:48pm

7. Every time I think the left can't get any nuttier, along comes a thread like this one.

   they ought to shut down the school for a month. Expel all of the students, then begin taking new applications for those who actually understand they are there to learn and prepare to be productive members of society.

   Schools are not nor should be democratic. As Rev Wright said, "the chickens are coming home to roost". This is the output from 70 years of socialist control in most colleges and universities. A bunch of spoiled brats.

   And the French analogy! yeah, that's what we need, a bunch of lazy good for nothing people wanting a guaranteed life.

   What a disgusting society we have become that we even tolerate people like this.

   Posted by antisocialist at 04/10/2009 @ 8:51pm

8. What a disgusting society we have become that we even tolerate people like this.

   Posted by antisocialist at 04/10/2009 @ 8:51pm

   we tolerate you.....

   Posted by frosty zoom at 04/10/2009 @ 9:24pm

9. Posted by frosty zoom at 04/10/2009 @ 9:24pm : "we tolerate you....."

   That simply does not apply here.

   Posted by pyeatte at 04/10/2009 @ 10:07pm

10. My heart was filled with gratitude when I heard about the protests in NYU. For too long this country has been in a state of paralysis when it comes to political mobilization. Keep it up... keep protesting. IN ADDITION, you can also threaten to never given one iota of alumni contribution to the university if they don't change their policies for the better. Let's face it when it comes to the issue of Israel much of the left acts like fascists because they supporting a something out of blind loyalty.

    Posted by saba at 04/10/2009 @ 10:39pm

11. And the French analogy! yeah, that's what we need, a bunch of lazy good for nothing people wanting a guaranteed life.

    What a disgusting society we have become that we even tolerate people like this.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/10/2009 @ 8:51pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Nice Easter message there Liv. But see a Frenchman's take on "civil disobedience" and that which promotes "orderly society."

    "Montesquieu advocated constitutionalism, the preservation of civil liberties, the abolition of slavery, gradualism, moderation, peace, internationalism, social and economic justice with due respect to national and local tradition. He believed in justice and the rule of law; detested all forms of extremism and fanaticism; put his faith in the balance of power and the division of authority as a weapon against despotic rule by individuals or groups or majorities; and approved of social equality, but not the point which it threatened individual liberty; and out of liberty, but not to the point where it threatened to disrupt orderly government."

    by Sir Isaiah Berlin Against the Current

    Posted by OneVote at 04/10/2009 @ 10:41pm

12. Universities are halls of learning... they are no center for mass production of chickens ... one has to question, one has to be able to act... Without that a university is meaningless...

    Posted by saba at 04/10/2009 @ 10:41pm

13. Did this stuff "work" back when it was supposed to have "worked"?

    Maybe there's a reason the guys who did it 40 years ago are "rolling their eyes" at the ones doing it now, Mr Kim?

    Posted by Mask at 04/10/2009 @ 8:48pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Yes - see Vietnam War.

    Your game is clear Maskie - establishment toadies are far too obvious.

    'The myth that protesters are the fringe elements of society who engage in violence.

    Another myth is that protesters are the fringe elements of society. It is probably more accurate to say that in some protests the protesters will be the powerless of society. In any event, government and corporate America wanted to make protest less desirable precisely because it is an effective means of political action, which they use. Thus, the government and MSM tag the protesters as fringe elements and then Bush violates their legal rights while America remains silent. The resulting deleterious consequences endured by the protesters are a great tool to deter others from protesting:'

    Gore Says Yes On Protests: Study Shows Effectiveness By Patriot Daily, Section Diaries Posted on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 02:59:25 PM EST Talkleft.com

    Posted by OneVote at 04/10/2009 @ 11:11pm

14. 'Moreover, even focusing only on political protest, this action is not limited to just a few Americans. A 2004 Pace Poll showed that New Yorkers, for example, are more involved in protest politics than in other civic activities. The poll showed that 38% of New Yorkers participate in protest politics. Nationwide, 27% of US residents similarly engage in protest politics, which is defined as "marches, demonstrations, boycotts, rallies, actions that lead to local reform, or labor and ethnically related group action."

    The US Census Bureau reported a total resident population in 2000 of 281,421,906 million people (pdf file). Based on the Pace Poll results, there may be 75,983,914 million Americans who participate nationwide in protest politics.'

    Gore Says Yes On Protests: Study Shows Effectiveness By Patriot Daily, Section Diaries Posted on Tue Sep 04, 2007 at 02:59:25 PM EST Talkleft.com

    Posted by OneVote at 04/10/2009 @ 11:13pm

15. I like the solidarity with the students and the call to actions.

    But:

    "Earlier this year, when NYU students occupied the student center, some left-leaning faculty privately complained that they couldn't totally support the students because of their naive strategy and incoherent, sprawling demands. (One of the students' demands, for example, was to set aside a number of scholarships for students from the Occupied Territories.)"

    I understand that you wrote that in a way that leaves it ambiguous as to whether you agree with their assessment of the demands, nevertheless in my opinion that demand is not a) sprawling: it directly relates to the diversity and therefore quality of the educational environment. b) naive: they understood the importance of standing in solidarity with oppressed people. c) incoherent: It was a clever way of making connections to larger struggles with their own.

    I think that paragraph undermined your larger point, and played into the demeaning of the students as naive etc.

    Posted by JoshOn at 04/10/2009 @ 11:51pm

16. <i>Posted by antisocialist at 04/10/2009 @ 8:51pm </i>

    There is one valid point here: a university is not supposed to be democratic. This isn't to say that it should be without questioning, just that it shouldn't be democratic. The students do not run the school, they benefit from the learning environment that the school provides.

    Posted by Thrawn at 04/11/2009 @ 01:00am

17. One of the great ironies here is that if so many students are challenging the System at universities (and apparently far beyond), it is to a great extent because the hegemonic leftist ideologies in our society, and most prominently in our universities, have encouraged them to be reflexively and deeply suspicious of authority. Leftist academics are reaping what they have helped sow. Why is it that university administrations and faculties are so opposed to these young leftists, unfocused and quixotic as they may be? Is it possibly because universities, despite all their hard-left agitprop, actually constitute a huge money-making industry with wholly selfish and corrupt interests to protect? And is it also possibly because most academics are hypocritical poseurs who savor their sinecures and thoroughly comfortable bourgeois lifestyle? Are the protesters threatening to wreck the smug, complacent gravy train that is higher education?

    There are many areas of American society that need to be shaken up in this way, higher education among the most obvious. While I cannot agree with many of the ideological points the students are putting forth, I certainly acknowledge the necessity and urgency of their efforts. More power to them, and less power to the venal apparatchiks and ludicrous poseurs who have hijacked higher education.

    Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2009 @ 03:11am

18. Schools are not nor should be democratic. As Rev Wright said, "the chickens are coming home to roost". This is the output from 70 years of socialist control in most colleges and universities. A bunch of spoiled brats.

    And the French analogy! yeah, that's what we need, a bunch of lazy good for nothing people wanting a guaranteed life.

    What a disgusting society we have become that we even tolerate people like this.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/10/2009 @ 8:51pm |

    Narrow minded and short sighted comments as usual. You need to open yourself a little bit LVL. You are liable to go out og this world blind if you keep this up.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 04:10am

19. There is one valid point here: a university is not supposed to be democratic. This isn't to say that it should be without questioning, just that it shouldn't be democratic. The students do not run the school, they benefit from the learning environment that the school provides.

    Posted by Thrawn at 04/11/2009 @ 01:00am

    This is true. Which is why students go to these extremes to make their opinions heard. Look I am not defending nutty people, but what they did is the only path for them to change the schools practices. If people listened to this nothing would have ever changed in this country because there were always people saying the path being taken was not the correct one. They didn't hurt anyone, so in the what does it matter?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 04:11am

20. There is one valid point here: a university is not supposed to be democratic. This isn't to say that it should be without questioning, just that it shouldn't be democratic. The students do not run the school, they benefit from the learning environment that the school provides.

    Posted by Thrawn at 04/11/2009 @ 01:00am

    This is true. Which is why students go to these extremes to make their opinions heard. Look I am not defending nutty people, but what they did is the only path for them to change the schools practices. If people listened to this nothing would have ever changed in this country because there were always people saying the path being taken was not the correct one. They didn't hurt anyone, so in the what does it matter?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 04:11am

21. Sorry for double.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 04:11am

22. The 60's may be gone, and the tactics of that era may not work. Yet, the idea of protest can be alive and well. Was it a few weeks ago that protests in Moldova (maybe Montenegro?) were organized via twitter? Our tech savvy students could protest virtually.

    It won't look like the 60's, but people can easily protest with the right tools, message and organization.

    Posted by erazma at 04/11/2009 @ 07:47am

23. Yes, higher education should be democratic, but it should represent more than the students. It should also represent the faculty and the society at large. And it should be subsidized to the point where it is free or nearly free.

    This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any constraints. We can't all go to college, get degrees in management of some kind or other, and then manage the workers -- who no longer exist, because they're all managers, too. Nor would it help to provide advanced degrees in, say, garbage collecting. Unfortunately, due to the decline of unions, the number of decent jobs with benefits that you can get without a lot of education is shrinking. We should provide decent jobs with benefits both for the highly educated and the barely educated, because we need both kinds of people.

    I absolutely reject the notion that students are "customers" and that education is a "product" like any other. In an educational institution, the "customer" is not always right. On the contrary, the student is often wrong, and so is the teacher, and both need to be honest enough to admit it from time to time. The cardinal virtue of a good teacher is honesty, not salesmanship; and the cardinal virtue of a good student is curiosity, not greed.

    I have worked as a teacher of some kind or other for 20 years now, and I can tell you that it is nothing like customer service. When I worked as a cashier, I had to apologize repeatedly for things that were not my fault, because the "customer was always right." As a teacher (of German or of English), I can tell students they are wrong, and it is a tremendous relief. The buyer-seller relationship should not be made the model of every other, because it is in so many ways both selfish and dishonest -- on both sides.

    Posted by JakobFabian at 04/11/2009 @ 08:30am

24. Why does higher education exist? Many people will answer this question saying that it exists as a ladder to help some people (not everybody, but some people) to climb to jobs with higher pay, status, and benefits.

    I will answer this question saying yes, this is true, but there is another purpose of higher education, a more important one, which is: to make students wonder why it is that some jobs have higher pay, status, and benefits, and others less, and to make them ask themselves whether this is just, and whether this ought to be changed.

    Perhaps the students at the New School will achieve nothing with their protest, but this is not important. I believe they are indeed getting an education, because they are learning to question the justice of the system. Whether this is is happening because of the presence of good teachers or the lack of them is not important. Either way, the New School is fulfilling its purpose.

    Posted by JakobFabian at 04/11/2009 @ 08:49am

25. DEMAND...PROTEST....FIGHT BACK!!

    These are the calls of leftists in the past and apparently, now.

    Spoiled brat college leftists protest against "The System".

    There is no "System". We live in a free country, where what happens here is a product of countless numbers of people interacting with other people to do what they do every day in the path in life they have chosen.

    No horrible "neocon" monsters are manipulating, screwing, shafting, or oppressing people in this country.

    There is nothing wrong with protest, in and of itself.

    People who marched from Selma to Montgomery had legitimate reasons to protest and make their voices heard.

    Spoiled brat leftist college students are just so mired in ideology and fantasy that they go and protest rather than do productive things that in the long run would be of far benefit to themselves and the places where they live.

    Rather than DEMAND....PROTEST.....FIGHT BACK..... how about

    WORK......APPLY ONESELF.......GIVE BACK TO YOUR COMMUNITY...

    instead?

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 08:50am

26. Posted by Saint Chermak

    Lose the self righteousness, dude --not much different than being a "spoiled brat".

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 09:06am

27. Higher education, soulessness, black hole, leftist extremism, it all fits.

    Posted by comancheamerican at 04/11/2009 @ 09:16am

28. The college age anti-Viet war protesters were greatly insoired by the protesters who preceded them, the real moral heroes of the US '60s ... the Freedom Riders & sit-in demonstrators throughout the segregated south + those who ran voter registration drives then in those states. they set the moral tone & example for the antiwar protesters. both groups were reviled, both were ultimately successful.

    The US has no military draft today because the powers that be don't want protesting students helping to shut down wars.

    Posted by sloper at 04/11/2009 @ 10:14am

29. The US has no military draft today because the powers that be don't want protesting students helping to shut down wars.

    Posted by sloper at 04/11/2009 @ 10:14am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Great point. Hard to conduct imperialistic wars with a conscripted army. Vietnam protest taught MIC that lesson.

    Posted by OneVote at 04/11/2009 @ 10:16am

30. Hey Kids! Burn it sideways..

    Posted by chaoszen at 04/11/2009 @ 11:24am

31. b_kool_66,

    There is no self righteousness to lose.......dude.....

    These spoiled brats have no productive ideas to help people... just the same old same old that people have problems because they are being screwed, etc, by the wealthy or the "powerful" etc...

    They are just demanding people be handed a guaranteed outcome in life... instead of being handed opportunity... which is what most people (except for spoiled brat leftist college students) want.....most people want opportunity so they can work and achieve their goal, whatever that may be, and then have the self respect and dignity that comes from having succeeded.

    You say what I say is not much different than being a spoiled brat.

    Wrong.

    It is the exact opposite.

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 11:25am

32. Hey Sjchermak! You are all about irrelevant.

    Posted by chaoszen at 04/11/2009 @ 11:28am

33. And on another note. We have a "Christian" Sunday School Teacher who has been arrested for killing 8 year old Sandra Cantu. This school teacher is the daughter of a pastor in the Baptist Church. And on top of that her last name is Huckaby..

    You cannot make this stuff up! If it were a piece of fiction, no one would believe it. Unreal. Maybe a sign of the times or an indication once again that maybe there is a God, (ya never know). And if there is, perhaps a message is in the bottle of irony.. And a wicked sense of humor.

    How many Atheists or Buddhists can you remember that have commited heinous crimes lately..

    Posted by chaoszen at 04/11/2009 @ 11:41am

34. academics are hypocritical poseurs who savor their sinecures and thoroughly comfortable bourgeois lifestyle?

    oh really? and what makes you able to judge all the academics in this country?

    most of your posts are not this asinine.

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 11:51am

35. We should support all such protests and activism by students, immigrants (Mayday is coming soon), labor, antiwar forces,and tohers. You don't have to agree with everything they do or say. The need is to build a movement to stop the banksters and the MIC from taking over every inch and sucking up every dollar in this country (and the world if they get their way.)

    Come out today (Saturday) the the New Way Forward demos against the Federal Reserve and the bailouts.

    Posted by DavidSpero at 04/11/2009 @ 11:57am

36. They are just demanding people be handed a guaranteed outcome in life...Posted by sjchermak

    Yeah raising the minimum wage, insuring health care & collective bargaining are such draconian steps in your ass kissing world. You can go to hell with LvL.

    Posted by Sorelish at 04/11/2009 @ 12:07pm

37. Hey Sjchermak! You are all about irrelevant. Posted by chaoszen at 04/11/2009 @ 11:28am

    Sometimes my sole purpose in coming here is to see if CHERMAK is going to raise his head.

    Of particular note today is the struggle he has with using the word 'dude'.

    He is a classic, however, the mouthpiece of the moron right. If he went away would we be better off?

    No, he's like the DEW line in conservative thinking, an indicator species if you will.

    Knowing that people are stupid isn't as valuable as knowing HOW stupid. You have to quantify stupid to be truly informed.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 12:07pm

38. Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 12:07pm

    The right never ceases to entertain. I would be the loser if they ever went away.

    What would light be without be without the dark?

    Posted by chaoszen at 04/11/2009 @ 12:17pm

39. This is true. Which is why students go to these extremes to make their opinions heard. Look I am not defending nutty people, but what they did is the only path for them to change the schools practices. If people listened to this nothing would have ever changed in this country because there were always people saying the path being taken was not the correct one. They didn't hurt anyone, so in the what does it matter?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 04:11am

    They are not there to have their opinions heard.

    They need to shut up and concentrate on their studies or quit.

    I'm sure glad my kids never acted like these leftist brats.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 12:25pm

40. There is a certain naivete about protesting students anywhere. Most of them don't have enough life experience, simply due to their age, to understand most of the complex issues that their protesting brings about.

    That said, however, it is up to those older folks who have lived through those "protests of old" to provide encouragement and "training" (for lack of a better word) to those young students to help them become more organized, focus their anger and develop good strategies so that their protests are effective and they achieve the results they want, instead of just being labeled "hooligans" or whatever by the mainstream media. Instead, we roll our eyes, primarily because we've been jaded at the lack of results in America of public protests. There is a lesson to be learned in all of that.

    I respect people who take their causes and try to bring light to them in this difficult world we live in. But for it to work and not just be written off as some drug-induced protest against authority for silly reasons, an actual strategy, set of goals and methodology should be created. The students might learn something from their protest after all...and since they're in school....

    As for "tolerating people like this" antisocialist, you might want to re-think that. After all, Jesus was a protester, wasn't he?

    Happy Easter.

    Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 04/11/2009 @ 12:29pm

41. As for "tolerating people like this" antisocialist, you might want to re-think that. After all, Jesus was a protester, wasn't he?

    Happy Easter.

    Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 04/11/2009 @ 12:29pm

    No, Jesus was not a protester. He was the authority, being G-d in the flesh, correcting the rebellious.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 12:37pm

42. ficheye,

    Excellent points... you have shown you have nothing meaningful to say.... you have validated I am correct..

    Thanks!

    One time when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, someone asked her if it bothered her when her opponents resorted to mud-slinging, etc.

    She said no, of course not.... she said that was an indication that they had run out of arguments to support their position on the issue of the day that was being debated.

    They had run out of gas, if you will.

    She said that once her opponents started mudslinging, she knew she had won the argument.

    With you, it starts right off of the bat... you don't even try to debate me any more... you know you can't win!

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 1:55pm

43. Happy Easter! let's get all the kids together and go cluster bomb hunting!

    It's a bitch decorating them, I have to say.

    ...................

    Hey anti, why don't you clarify this thing about Jesus being god?

    I thought god was his father, and that Jesus was the son.

    How is it that he was god at the same time?

    Matthew Mark and Luke never refer to him as 'being' god, but in John, Jesus says "I and the father are one", another verse that can be interpreted at least a couple of different ways. Wish they could make up their minds. Does it mean they are 'the same', they are 'alike' or that 'god is in ALL of us' and that we are ALL like god. Boy, is that ever confusing. I'll bet some bibles say 'as one', which could send us off in a different course. I mean, if he actually IS god, why would he bother to infer a duality, which is how I would read it.

    In fact, early Jews thought that Jesus was human, not divine. That's another debate though.

    Why don't you help all of us heathen out and clarify that? I mean, the disparities about the crucifixion in Mark and Luke are bothersome enough... it's like someone combined both of those books into one. Scholars are currently in debate about this 'translation of events. I'm sure that your take on it will be enlightening...

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 2:01pm

44. With you, it starts right off of the bat... you don't even try to debate me any more... you know you can't win! Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 1:55pm

    You are the bomb, CHERMAK.

    There is no debate with you. Everyone is wrong, and you are right. I've never read a post where you take anybody's information and actually consider it. We are all 'on the left', so if you want to imagine that you are winning anything, you be my guest.

    If I ever see you 'debate' anyone, I will consider an actual exchange of information. Until then, you are comedic relief. Don't forget the tape... and the shovel.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 2:06pm

45. Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 2:01pm

    I'm in the middle of some tax returns for clients, but I will respond later

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 2:33pm

46. By all means, Larry, do hurry.

    This entire thread hangs in bated breath anticipation.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 2:45pm

47. ficheye,

    You imply that I imply that everyone here is wrong, and I am right.

    That is not true.

    I never implied that everyone here is wrong.

    antisocialist is not wrong.

    YourJommama is not wrong.

    ACook is not wrong.

    comancheamerican is not wrong.

    There are other Conservatives here who are not wrong, as well.

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 2:52pm

48. antisocialist-If you guys would stop watching so much TV and start to study a little history you will discover that society is no different now than at any other time and we humans have always been the same.The fact that your kids acted like right wing brats rather than left wing brats does not make them less bratty..Kids are kids regardless of political views just as we adults are the same regardless of political views.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 04/11/2009 @ 3:10pm

49. Excellent piece, Richard. Just to clarify, NYU faculty didn't just "eventually" sign a letter: there was a process that worked startling fast by university standards to produce a letter that was in the hands of the administration in time, by some accounts, to get them to modify their initial draconian punitive stance towards the last student occupiers. And re: those reports of "private complaints" from left-leaning faculty about the student demands and tactics. This may be a glass half-full or half-empty question. Myself, I prefer to see those doubts as having been expressed in the context of a healthy debate, in person and over email, as to whether and how progressive faculty ought best engage the occupation. Any complaints I heard were in solidarity with the students and their causes, they were not idle carping. And underlying those complaints seemed to be a felt absence of public space at the university, independent of the administration, where students and faculty might come together as equals to deliberate and learn from each other. Not just students learning strategy from older radicals and organizers, but older folks learning about what matters to the students today, outside the hierarchical and profit-driven contexts of NYU classrooms.

    Posted by Tavia at 04/11/2009 @ 3:17pm

50. "Nothing is more annoying in the ordinary intercourse of life than this irritable patriotism of Americans. A foreigner will gladly agree to praise much in their country, but he would like to be allowed to criticize something, and that he is absolutely refused."

    de Tocqueville

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 3:18pm

51. Something this article should have explained is that this protest is not an isolated expression of student anger, but is specifically related to the process of addressing long-standing problems at The New School -- in particular regarding the President Bob Kerrey -- and the failure of the administration to fulfill it's promises. The protest appears to be an attempt to increase pressure on the University, in order to make it stick to it's promises.

    Last December, students organized an occupation of the University, in order to bring attention to a variety of issues.

    Including, the administration's trumping of academics by economic considerations, the lack of democratic channels open to staff and students, exorbitant tuition fees, lack of study space, and etc.

    The December occupation brought attention to these issues, and there was a meeting called to address the topics. (*Without the occupation, the meeting wouldn't have taken place.)

    At the meeting, an overwhleming vote of no-confidence (269-to-18) was taken by the full-time against Bob Kerrey and the vice President James Murtha.

    Following the meeting, Kerrey and Murtha have tried to prevent any changes. And the students felt that the only way to increase pressure was to reoccupy the building.

    This political context should be told by The Nation and any reporters so that the public will be informed about what is taking place.

    Posted by matisklo at 04/11/2009 @ 3:20pm

52. Also, as can be seen in the video of the students inside the building, it was a typical civil disobedience protest, and the students cooperated to an incredibly peaceful degree with the police.

    Faced with this mounting pressure, Kerrey tries to depoliticize the protest and use a repressive tactic of warding off the protest. The police operation was enormous for such a small protest. Streets were blocked in every direction of the building. Supporters outside the buildings were prevented from coming within a block of the building.

    When students tried to get out of the building through a side door, police locked them in and sprayed them with pepper spray.

    Those on the outside were enraged by this, and by the way out of proportion police mobilization. Police attacked protesters on the street, physically hitting some, knocking them to the ground, and arresting them.

    It is outrageous that so many comments on this article and the one on the NYTimes website praise the police violence and even tell about how they themselves would have been even more violent to the students. Truly disgusting!

    Posted by matisklo at 04/11/2009 @ 3:24pm

53. mayor Bloomberg presides over a mini police state. he and his commish are disgusting and must go.

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 3:29pm

54. full disclosure: New Yorker for 47 years.

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 3:29pm

55. Posted by SJ Chermak at 2:52 pm

    You tell 'em, Saint Chermak.

    By the way, I strongly encourage you to gather all your said "Conservative" buddys together, abandon The Nation threads (preferrably permanently) and stage a mutual jerk off fest. It'd be wildly therapeutic for you and your crew --and safer than surreptitious sex with hookers and young boys-- while simultaneously ridding this site of a motherload of intransigent, intolerant rock heads.

    Oh, and don't forget to take Happy the Clown along. If nothing else he can give instructions on technique after years spent downunder in Texas making cash under the table --literally-- polishing the Presidential "brass knob".

    I suppose I'll miss you guys oddly enough --stubborn refusal to grasp anything approaching reality has its (limited) charms. But I'll also be content in the knowledge that the underlying pychosexual driving force that fuels the absurd posturing is finally being fed in a mutually satisfying and societally beneficial way.

    You guys can explode on each other instead of holding it in, letting out occasional small spurts and sadly staining these Nation threads.

    Please, at least consider the wisdom of these words.

    And finally, take note of the behavior of the pygmy chimp --aka "Bonobo"-- in contrast to the warlike, territorial behavior of its cousin Pan troglodytes that so eerily mirrors your own often frustrated bouts of verbal fecal fusillades.

    Happy Easter everyone!

    :D

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 3:36pm

56. "....At the meeting, an overwhleming vote of no-confidence (269-to-18) was taken by the full-time against Bob Kerrey and the vice President James Murtha.

    Following the meeting, Kerrey and Murtha have tried to prevent any changes. And the students felt that the only way to increase pressure was to reoccupy the building.

    This political context should be told by The Nation and any reporters so that the public will be informed about what is taking place."

    ~Posted by matisklo at 3:20pm

    Appreciate the enlightenment.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 3:39pm

57. Hmmm. Reminds me of a party where something is said and the room suddenly goes silent.

    Did I say something offensive?

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 5:19pm

58. They are not there to have their opinions heard.

    They need to shut up and concentrate on their studies or quit.

    I'm sure glad my kids never acted like these leftist brats.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 12:25pmThey are not there to have their opinions heard.

    They need to shut up and concentrate on their studies or quit.

    I'm sure glad my kids never acted like these leftist brats.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 12:25pm

    Part of life is learning social responsibility. A lot of people take a lot of pride in their school. When you take pride in your school you want it to be as perfect as possible. What about all the stupid right wing Christian students boycotting at Notre Dame because Obama is going to speak there? I don't seeing you raising a tizzy about that. It's not just "leftist" brats as you say it's your brats too.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 5:26pm

59. Whew! All is well I see.

    Now I'm off to the annual Easter weekend Sex Orgy for Progressives.

    See you there everybody.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 5:35pm

60. Woops.

    Before I go I'd like to offer my condolences to local Canadian blogger and musician "Frosty Z", on the sad news of the day:

    "Billy Bob Thornton's band cancels Canadian tour"

    Excerpt:

    Thornton also had some unkind words for Canadian crowds.

    "Canadian audiences seem to be very reserved," he told Ghomeshi. "We tend to play places where people throw things at each other. Here, they just sort of sit there. And it doesn't matter what you say to 'em. ... It's mashed potatoes but no gravy."

    End quote.

    tinyurl.com/csl9xj

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 5:47pm

61. Sex Orgy

    redundant. is there any other kind?

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 5:48pm

62. "redundant."

    ~Emile

    It was meant as a kindly, conciliatory SOP in response to their "Conservative Orgy for Carrot-Kuffers".

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 6:02pm

63. "Don't play too much beer-pong....."

    ~snowball

    Yeah right, Snow.

    You know we only do wine and cheese at these affairs. And you act like you've never been.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 6:12pm

64. You imply that I imply that everyone here is wrong, and I am right. Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 2:52pm

    CHERMAK,

    I think that you know as well as I do that what I meant.

    I meant to say... you think anyone who you view as 'a leftist' or who does not share your conservative views to be wrong. And I will indulge you further by saying that the statement you made is exactly the reason that I do not engage you in any way. A person could talk for a thousand years and you would never hear them once your mind was made up, even if it made sense.

    I would put you on ignore, but I find your posts fascinating in a dark way. Almost completely devoid of humanistic logic, almost totally obeisant to the right wing lock step mentality, you are a shining example of just where we don't need to go as a country. The party of no, no ideas, no flexibility, no sense of humor except to find the discomfiture of others something to laugh about. And ignoring Bushes complicity completely, like he never existed.

    Your sickness, and comancheamerican's too, is all about poking your fingers in peoples eyes, shrieking and ranting "Wrong, wrong, wrong!" while you call names and pretend that you are making a point of some sort outside of vicious naysaying.

    Just tell us, please, how YOU would address our economic woes? I don't profess to know. It's madly complicated, and anyone who really thinks that they have a final answer has got to be short on sense and long on blank minded rhetoric.

    But give it your best shot. Give us CHERMAK'S overall plan for the nation without telling us what 'those on the left' are doing, or aren't doing.

    Tell us what YOU would do. Be constructive, not destructive. And I can make fun of Palin all I want. It's America, genius. Love it or leave it. Soon.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 6:35pm

65. ficheye, you are barking up the wrong tree. Cherm, who is without charm, is just a mouth piece, mindlessly regurgitating the party line. not a shred of independent thought.

    Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 7:14pm

66. Here's one for Saint Chermak and his Naztee Con Crue:

    tinyurl.com/dzp8pc

    Just exchange "she" with "he". Enjoy, boys.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 7:20pm

67. "She said shed never been

    Never been touched before

    She said shed never been

    This far before

    She said shed never liked

    To be excited

    She said shed always had

    Had to fight it (and she never won)....."

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 7:23pm

68. And since I'm apparently just entertaining myself tonight I'll throw down an Easter platter for me here:

    tinyurl.com/64wngd

    Lyric excerpt:

    Perhaps the charcoal grey and brown around me-- Is just the mirror image of tainted soul-- I think the sun will never visit my sky-- Until the truth is seen by each and every eye

    I see the helpless and I see the insane-- I see a pauper singing in the pouring rain-- I see the means of help elude us again-- I think the sun will never visit me again--

    Chase these clouds away-- I hate this sunless Saturday

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 7:34pm

69. No more brie for me, thanks.

    Pass the Chateaubriand please.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 7:44pm

70. "TARP."

    ~Snowball

    Spot on, bro'.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 7:51pm

71. not a shred of independent thought. Posted by emile duBois at 04/11/2009 @ 7:14pm

    Yeah, I got involved accidentally when he inferred that we were having an argument, and that he knew he'd 'won' somehow. It was a twist of odd logic that actually had me addressing him in the first person!

    I admit that he's my favorite 'dude' to make fun of so it probably served me right.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 8:01pm

72. I'll pass the Fishbone around for one more go 'round-- Could not find "Pourin' Rain", but "Freddie's Dead" 'll do nicely:

    tinyurl.com/d8e9wp

    Lyric taste:

    Were all built up with progress-- But sometimes I must confess-- You can deal with rockets and dreams-- But reality, what does it mean ?

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:04pm

73. Deeper into the urban archives we go:

    tinyurl.com/c25gbn

    "Situation Critical......"

    I'll let it speak for itself --chock full of lines. No big fan of hip-hop etc... but this record --I Hate You with a Passion-- grabbed me for some reason back in the day when I stumbled across it in a used CD bin and played it on the store headphones.

    Gritty and not too pretty.

    Best thing about it --Andre Adam's (aka Nickatina) lisp.

    Comical.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:15pm

74. Speaking of comical......here's a comment from the youtube page for "Situation Critical".....

    guess u gotta be from cali to feel this excuse me while i shoot my computer

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:18pm

75. Part of life is learning social responsibility. A lot of people take a lot of pride in their school. When you take pride in your school you want it to be as perfect as possible. What about all the stupid right wing Christian students boycotting at Notre Dame because Obama is going to speak there? I don't seeing you raising a tizzy about that. It's not just "leftist" brats as you say it's your brats too.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/11/2009 @ 5:26pm

    Other than most of the faculty and the students agreeing that it would be hypocrisy to have Obama speak there, what possible similarity do you find. They are not occupying any buildings in protest. They are not making demands like "give scholarships to students from the Palestine".

    What the faculty and the students are rightfully saying is that a religious institution that is required to support the churches teaching on the sanctity of the life of the unborn would be acting against that same teaching by having Obama speak.

    When they start occupying admin buildings and asking for all manner of personal demands, you will have an argument.

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 8:22pm

76. And back out of the gutter to the sunshine.....

    Much better....strains of reggae.....Olu Dara's trumpet playin' is fine.

    tinyurl.com/covaqj

    Studio version of Your Lips is on the record In the World: From Natchez to New York.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:25pm

77. Much better....strains of reggae.....Olu Dara's trumpet playin' is fine.

    tinyurl.com/covaqj

    Studio version of Your Lips is on the record In the World: From Natchez to New York.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:25pm

    Good stuff!

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 8:28pm

78. Were all built up with progress-- But sometimes I must confess-- You can deal with rockets and dreams-- But reality, what does it mean ? Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:04pm

    Yeah baby. No one like brother Curtis.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/11/2009 @ 8:28pm

79. Glad to be of service. Appreciate the fact that we've got some resonance here.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:38pm

80. Keepin' with eclecticism here's an old Elvis Costello classic from one of his best records in my opinion, Imperial Bedroom. This one is much better on the hifi with the climbing piano cresendo at the end but this youtube version is passable:

    tinyurl.com/5j2ucc

    Lyric wrap-up:

    The biggest wheels of industry-- Retire sharp and short-- And the after dinner overtures-- Are nothing but an after thought-- Somebody's creeping in the kitchen-- There's a reputation to be made-- Whose nerves are always on a knife's edge?-- Who's up late polishing the blade?

    Love is always scarpering or cowering or fawning-- You drink yourself insensitive and hate yourself in the morning

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:45pm

81. Pickin' up the pace......from '78

    tinyurl.com/dnzcl3

    choice snippet:

    You either shut up or get cut out; they don't wanna hear about it.

    It's only inches on the reel-to-reel.

    And the radio is in the hands of such a lot of fools tryin' to anaesthetise the way that you feel

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:55pm

82. Oops, my bad.

    Here's the much more entertaining video version of the above Costello Classic:

    tinyurl.com/cs7nuy

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 8:57pm

83. Here's a stellar tune from the days back when Larry V "Liberty" --our own "antisocialist"-- was patrolling the Mekong delta or whatever. Probably he was just smokin' a LOT of weed:

    tinyurl.com/ccwnb8

    Short but sweet. The classic power trio --Bruce, Clapton and Baker.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:09pm

84. And finally(?) --travelling up the river, deeper into the Heart of Darkness (Larry's past that is)-- here's one from one of my all time favs.

    tinyurl.com/6ewb7c

    Live at Woodstock. Great video.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:14pm

85. I'll throw in this last one that has no video, but it's simply a fantastic bit of guitar work. I have the vinyl version in my collection --Nine to the Universe (recordings done at the Hit Factory in NYC in '69-- yet this version is a bit different, but no less scintillating I think.

    tinyurl.com/djpbv2

    Enjoy.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:22pm

86. I see. My version of Easy Blues was from Record Plant recordings earlier in 1969 apparently --don't have my vinyl version at hand presently.

    Drone Blues is another fine bit of jazz infused psychedelia:

    tinyurl.com/cfdqq9

    It's enough to make Larry V want to spark one up methinks --or NOT.

    Alright, I'm takin' a beer break.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:30pm

87. Hope everybody out there is havin' good time.....

    I'm wearin' a lampshade right now. Yeeeee-HAAAAAW

    HAAAA--Py...... EAAAA--STrrrrrrr!!!!

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:52pm

88. ficheye,

    You said ".......Your sickness, and comancheamerican's too, is all about poking your fingers in peoples eyes, shrieking and ranting "Wrong, wrong, wrong!" while you call names and pretend that you are making a point of some sort outside of vicious naysaying......."

    What about the last 8 years? Did you forget the behavior of the left towards the Bush administration?

    You ask for my plan for the economy, while saying that you do not profess to have the answer because it is a complex situation.

    I certainly do not have the answer either. I read an article by a Conservative (I do not remember who now) who was saying that some strict Conservatives that say there should be no government assistance may not be 100% right, that perhaps some government "stimulus" may be advisable, but it should be as limited as possible.......but....

    What is happening now is the Obama administration has gone way beyond that ........essentially the Democrat wish list is being fulfilled.....it was Obama's chief of staff Rahm Emmanuel who said never let a good crisis go to waste.

    No way are some of the actions by the Obama administration necessary remedies for the economy.

    But you lay down a rule that I can not be destructive, only constructive.

    But in this case that is not entirely possible... If someone, in this case Obama, is promoting policy that is not necessary and is harmful (increased government control in our lives) then there is no other thing to say about it other than what you consider to be negative comments.

    The proper approach in a lot of these cases would be to NOT do what Obama wants, there is no thing that needs to be done in the place of what Obama wants.

    You certainly can make fun of Sarah Palin all you want... it is a free country...

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 11:15pm

89. Mr. Dubois, thank you for comments. I am actually Feinfein, PhD, and have been intimately associated with higher education--too intimately perhaps--for some 30 years. I've taught at a half dozen universities and also worked as an administrator, including at "elite" institutions. True, I've never been granted the sinecure of a Lehrstuhl, remaining instead among the Lumpenproletariat of postdocs, adjuncts, etc. As a member of a despised lower caste, I freely admit my observations may be tained.

    It seems clear however that tenured professors, especially at elite institutions, do not work very hard (many with a teaching load of 2-0 or 2-1-0 and none at all on sabbatical or enjoying a fellowship in some exotic locale). And academics do have so much time off throughout the year. True, they should always be reading and writing, but then that is what we love to do. The demigods do produce books and articles and public lectures, but few contribute anything to human civilization and some are really quite detrimental (I speak here mainly of the humanities and social sciences). Whence the huge overabundance of PhDs in this country and elsewhere who want fulltime tenure-track teaching jobs but cannot find them? It's largely the safe, secure, smarter-than-thou (even holier-than-thou) bourgeois lifestyle offered by academia that draws people. They want it; they lust after it.

    And, yes, I'd take $150k or $175k for an endowed professorship at an elite institution with all the time off and other benefits, tangible and intangible. I would even deign to accept $75-100k for a professorship with a larger teaching load at a run-of-the-mill state school.

    Higher education is extremely important for our society. I wish only that it performed its crucial functions far better.

    Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2009 @ 11:18pm

90. thx B Kool,

    I have a better Cream choice-

    I Feel Free

    http://tinyurl.com/cweomt

    Live at Woodstock. Great video.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/11/2009 @ 9:14pm

    Jimmie-another great choice

    how about Hey Joe

    http://tinyurl.com/cjsdn6

    and to take things a step further

    http://tinyurl.com/5trqqf

    and if you don't love this video, you don't love the 60's

    http://tinyurl.com/68ypjn

    An absolute favorite-had the album then and have it now

    For What It's Worth

    http://tinyurl.com/3f62oj

    Another in my short list

    Wooden Ships (at Woodstock)

    http://tinyurl.com/2f2o6c

    Still play this one weekly.but had to cut my hair off couple years ago when I got too bald- beard stays of course.

    http://tinyurl.com/czzpws

    Probably few who weren't part of the 60's would know this one.

    Quicksilver Messenger Service-live at the closing of the Filmore

    A really great band!

    Fresh Air

    http://tinyurl.com/czgdxa

    Another that few outside of we from the 60's would know. I have some bootleg copies

    It's A Beautiful Day-White Bird

    David LaFlamme on violin -awesome

    http://tinyurl.com/d94ewt

    Time is too slow for those who wait, too swift for those who fear, too long for those who grieve, too short for those who laugh, but for those who love, time is eternity

    http://tinyurl.com/ddh6pr

    My favorite tribute to Hippie life-Flashback with Dennis Hopper and Kiefer Sutherland and Carol Kane (the farmhouse scene)-kind how I lived after I left the military and raised my kids

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1gYf5ZZ7NU

    Softer side of the Airplane

    http://tinyurl.com/cc98fd

    Got carried away but fun choices-good vibrations

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/11/2009 @ 11:20pm

91. ficheye,

    You patronizingly instructed me quite some time ago that I should be brief (while many times you are verbose as hell) but now my posts are not only running up to the word limit but I need to continue to second postings.

    To wrap up about Sarah Palin, you are of course free to make fun of her... but from the years 2013 to 2021 you will be making fun of the President of the United States.

    You don't like it (and I don't care) when I get pompous, but many times in the past anytime I got into a detailed discussion the same stuff came back that I get when I am pompous, so after a while it is easy to conclude...what is the point?

    You pass yourself off as some grand hyper-intellectual but if you are going to start grading postings then how about that of b_kool_66, up above, regarding me and other Conservatives.

    That certainly is a gem, is it not. Part of it contains blanket standard statements that have no basis in fact, and then it goes downhill from there to something resembling a commode overflowing.

    Does any of the garbage Phil McCrevice cranks out pass muster with you?

    There are a lot of partisan arguments going back and forth on this site... some people think being partisan is bad... we are supposed to be non-partisan and have consensus and have some kind of middle way.

    But non-partisanship is not everything it is cracked up to be... there is nothing wrong with people in a free country arguing back and forth... some people who are non-partisan are really people who have no core beliefs.... they bend and twist with the wind...

    But when some of those on sites such as this start saying that others such as me are wrong because I say others are wrong, what you may be looking for is for me to self-censor myself and dilute my arguments before they even start.

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 11:28pm

92. ficheye,

    But I am not going to allow myself to fall into the trap of self-censoring myself and conceding things just so I do not appear unreasonable and I am willing to agree someone else is right about something I really believe they are wrong about.

    I ask Mask the following question all the time but never get an answer from Mask... so I will ask you now about my 2 posts above.... ....specifically......what is wrong about these posts.......why are my points not valid.....what specifically is there about them that causes you to go into the hyperintellectual pompous ass mode that you engage in.......how are they any worse than the garbage you spew out.

    Posted by sjchermak at 04/11/2009 @ 11:33pm

93. Got to add--

    With so much great music, I'm still blown away by Santana and Soul Sacrifice at Woodstock.

    http://tinyurl.com/5wnapt

    And where I think we all find agreement-

    Richie Havens-Freedom

    http://tinyurl.com/cpr5am

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/12/2009 @ 12:00am

94. CHERMAK,

    These posts above, if you want a rating, are more within the boundaries of what I consider to be normal discourse.

    But then you spoil it all by calling me a pompous ass when that's merely an interpretation by you because I've made fun of you at times. And I don't know where you get the hyper-intellectual part unless you are threatened by my writing style. I'm not stupid, but I am sarcastic.

    Sometimes people go off topic here and use humor, some of which you clearly don't understand, because the constant seriousness is wearying, so they take a break and go off topic a bit. Notice how Anti is taking a little break above? It's nice to stop pushing your thumbs into people eyes once in a while. Not YOUR thumbs... that's just a general statement... I mean everybody, including me.

    But if you, CHERMAK, don't understand something, a little humor, or someone talking symbolically, you often assume someone is trying to attack you, so you start to get abusive. And you REALLY take issue with me suggesting that you change your style. That's your weakness and I exploit it. Dude.

    After those three long posts it's very clear that I'm getting to you somehow. And if I point that out you will call me pompous or hyper intellectual. No. We were light heartedly commenting on Sarah Palin way up top... and then you made some snarky comment about how she could do better than the current occupant. We weren't addressing you at all at that point.

    I could just not respond, but we all have a need to be heard. I honor that intention from everyone. But you, like comanche, say things that are meant to be negative and you receive a negative response. Then you wonder why the shit is flying. Maybe that's why I ponder your intelligence. You don't realize that you bring it on yourself.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 12:19am

95. Posted by antisocialist at 04/12/2009 @ 12:00am

    I must say I'm pretty partial to the Jimi Hendrix instrumental at the very end of the album.

    It's like everyone lets out a long sigh of relief.

    ............

    It seems that they might have to tear down his old house in Skyway, near Seattle. A sad story.

    Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 12:28am

96. Attempting to dismiss college students as insolent "brats" is reminiscent of the mentality back in the '50s.

    America's youth are more aware, and more conscientious than most adults, and for the fees they pay for college, they should be considered shareholders.

    It is the college that should reform - the police who should stand back, and let young adults voices be heard - they are in fact, the leaders of tomorrow.

    Posted by mr.moose at 04/12/2009 @ 12:44am

97. Goddamn, I missed the Curtis Mayfield tangent?

    Hush now child and don't you cry Your folks might understand you by and by Move on up towards your destination You may find from time to time Complications

    Bite your lip and take a trip Though there may be wet road ahead You cannot slip So move on up and peace you will find Into the steeple of beautiful people Where there's only one kind

    So hush now child and don't you cry Your folks might understand you by and by Just move on up and keep on wishing Remember your dreams are your only schemes So keep on pushing Take nothing less - not even second best And do not obey - you must have your say You can past the test

    Move on up!

    Don't get me started.

    Posted by gangpapist at 04/12/2009 @ 01:04am

98. Easter is upon us-so I wish peace to all =at least for one day

    Here is something for all...Alvin Lee of Ten Years After--"I'd Love to Change the World"

    The song is still relevant and it's great to see him just as strong 40 years later.

    http://tinyurl.com/cx73fw

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/12/2009 @ 01:54am

99. Perhaps the last and how can you not-

    The Beatles 1969 Rooftop final concert

    http://tinyurl.com/bvwe57

    Posted by antisocialist at 04/12/2009 @ 02:11am

100. Good to see a little ferment here on the whole, and in particular I enjoyed the usefully positive responses from "antisocialist". Saint Chermak apparently hasn't yet stepped up to the plate to drop his thick shell of pretense, but who knows he may yet.

     Bottom line, I would hope all --or at least a sizeable majority-- of us might yet find a way to let the layers of protection drop away and find useful common ground on which to exchange some beneficial human connections.

     Just happy to have the opportunity to churn the soil so to to speak --even if a few tender sensibilities might have gotten shocked in the attempt.

     Peace out, dudes.

     And Happy Easter.

     Posted by b_kool_66 at 04/12/2009 @ 03:17am

101. Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2009 @ 11:18pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     what no tenure? must be sour grapes then.

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 08:38am

102. Higher education is extremely important for our society. I wish only that it performed its crucial functions far better. Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2009 @ 11:18pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     your earlier stupid and nasty characterization doesn't help a bit.

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 08:45am

103. America's youth are more aware, and more conscientious than most adults, and for the fees they pay for college, they should be considered shareholders.

     make that the fees THEIR PARENTS pay...

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 08:46am

104. I can't for the life of me understand why these student protests do not raise the issue of exploding student debt and the treatment of student loans in US bankruptcy law, which makes them perpetually non-dischargeable. This explosion in non-dischargeable student loan debt poses a serious threat to the well-being of the middle and working-classes. Changing the bankruptcy laws to permit their discharge, with or without a reasonable waiting period, seems like a very modest and attainable goal, as opposed to some of the other demands that are often raised by the these student protests, which if enacted could actually help millions of middle and working class families. For the matter, I can't understand why the Nation and others in the "progressive" press continue to ignore this issue themselves.

     That said Kerrey's repression against the students was simply appalling and in direct contradiction with the history and traditions of the New School as an institution. His days are probably numbered......

     Posted by links18 at 04/12/2009 @ 10:32am

105. While I agree that it's counterproductive for self-identified leftists to deny support to students' activist efforts at NYU and the New School - and to similar efforts across the country - I also think that support should not be offered unconditionally.

     The article criticizes "left-leaning" NYU faculty for complaining that they felt unable to fully support the occupation because its "naive strategy" and "incoherent, sprawling demands." As a left-leaning former student, I feel very sympathetic to that sentiment. While I agreed - or, at the very least, was very sympathetic to - each of the individual demands set forth by TBNYU, the thirteen demands were ultimatley poorly presented. It was unclear how the protesters felt their demands were interlinked, as was the individual reasoning underlying each separate demand. That could have been easily addressed by the creation of a more thoughtful, better-edited document setting forth the demands and the overarching vision of TBNYU.

     Without coupling what I felt was, on the whole, a well-executed takeover of Kimmel with a clearly presented, coherent, accessible platform, the efforts of TBNYU lost a precious opportunity to garner the -unqualified- support of potential allies on campus and in the community. This is not to suggest that the students involved in the NYU & New School occupations are not open to criticism, to reconsidering their strategies and their approaches. I believe they are, and expect that future efforts will be tighter, better, more effective.

     Posted by onetimeonly at 04/12/2009 @ 11:16am

106. On a separate note, maybe student protests will inject the "moribund" left with the life and activist spirit it admittedly lacks. But I am bothered by this article's final paragraph: "We can wait for the perfect moment, or the perfect, tidy platform, or the perfect campaign that can't fail. And then, we will wait forever."

     Certainly. But I believe that that sense of urgency - the need to act now, regardless of perfection or tidiness - can only be taken somewhere more effective if we engage in a critical conversation about just what it is the various segments of the left wants to be fighting for, and how. Demanding the uncritical support of all self-proclaimed leftists will create an echo chamber, not a dialogue. If "Occupy Everything Right Now" is to be our rallying cry, then we are left with a movement that appears thoughtless and undiscerning, rash and without substance. We can do better than that.

     Also, as much as the New School and NYU occupations dealt with "the values that go to the heart of the current economic crisis - the division of society into the haves and have notes and the impunity with which the elite...run their institutions," I believe it is disingenuous to suggest that these protests substantively engaged issues and, more importantly, people outside the immediate sphere of the two schools.

     Posted by onetimeonly at 04/12/2009 @ 11:17am

107. Universities - especially private universities - are spaces of immense privilege. It is intellectually viable to connect the NYU students' demands with desires that resonate with those enduring the "great suffering" of this moment. But I am reluctant to believe that the halls of 65 Fifth Avenue or Kimmel Center will be the space where movements for the people - not just the elite-private-university-going people - are reinvigorated. Student protests focused primarily on internal university politics are undoubtedly a critical part of that reinvigoration. However, it is up to all of us on the left to broaden the arena in which we apply the values espoused by TBNYU and the New School in Exile: democracy, equity, transparency, and accountability.

     Posted by onetimeonly at 04/12/2009 @ 11:18am

108. I must say I'm pretty partial to the Jimi Hendrix instrumental at the very end of the album. It's like everyone lets out a long sigh of relief. Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 12:28am | ignore this person | warn this person

     first person account: by the time Hendrix played the star spangled banner, most of the huge crowd had left, leaving behind a sea of mud soaked sleeping bags. I was driving away too, with the tune serenading the exit. the sun was rising.

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 12:29pm

109. Posted by snowball666 at 04/12/2009 @ 10:44am | ignore this person | warn this person

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=galemelZct8

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 12:46pm

110. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ob7cDBMc6g

     perhaps even better than the above.

     chappy cholidays Y'all

     Posted by emile duBois at 04/12/2009 @ 12:49pm

111. ficheye,

     It is time to reset this whole discussion.

     At one point above you said ".....and then you made some snarky comment about how she could do better than the current occupant........" (you were referring to Sarah Palin)

     Since there is commentary going on more than one thread, I believe given your wording that almost certainly this is the comment you were referring to:

     =======

     I think Sarah Palin could do a whole lot better job than the current occupant.

     Posted by pyeatte at 04/10/2009 @ 10:48pm

     =======

     As you can see, I did not post this comment, so you can not even get your facts straight.

     Be that as it may, I totally agree with pyeatte's comment. Your definition of it as "snarky" is a product of your own opinions. There is nothing snarky about it.... Obama is pursuing policy that most Conservatives including me do not agree with, Sarah Palin certainly would not be doing the things Obama is doing, thus is it logical for a Conservative to feel that Sarah Palin would be doing a better job.

     If you don't agree, you don't agree....but the problem with you is you frame these things in your hyperintellectual disdain for those who are not as enlightened as you believe yourself to be.

     Every thing you identify about me is wrong....you say I am negative.. what do you expect... these thread start out with an article from a Nation columnist... what response do you expect a Conservative to have.

     I have engaged in lengthy discussion with people, you ignore this. I have engaged in humor and off topic subject such as the recent one with snowball666 about conditions at Candlestick Park.

     It seems, however, anytime I am in discussion with you, it is because of a lecture from you about my discourse.

     This is why I label you as hyperintellectual. You bring it on yourself

     Posted by sjchermak at 04/12/2009 @ 5:37pm

112. Higher education is extremely important for our society. I wish only that it performed its crucial functions far better.

     Posted by feinfein at 04/11/2009 @ 11:18pm

     Still heading out the much enlarged Left Field!

     =================================

     I Pledge Allegiance, To the Diversity...

     Virginia Tech has proposed guidelines mandating attitudes toward diversity that stifle academic freedom.

     By George Leef

     April 09, 2009

     Let's do a little thought experiment. Suppose that the administration at a state university announced that it was going to change its policy regarding promotion and tenure for faculty members to include the following language: "Special attention will be given to the candidates involvement with efforts to advance laissez-faire capitalism."

     Is there any doubt that the announcement would swiftly generate a tidal wave of indignant opposition? We would expect the American Association of University Professors, for example, to proclaim the new policy.....would cause faculty members to refrain from saying or doing anything that might be regarded as in any way hostile to laissez-faire capitalism.

     That would be exactly right. Colleges should not have ideological litmus tests that faculty members must pass before they can be considered for promotion and tenure. A faculty member's economic philosophy has nothing to do with his competence in teaching and research.

     Now let's return to the real world. In March, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University (nearly always just called Virginia Tech) announced that it was considering new guidelines for faculty assessment. A crucial sentence in the proposal reads, "University and college committees require special attention be given to documented involvement in diversity initiatives."....

     Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 7:28pm

113. continued-VTech waxes "hyperintellectual"

     There no more is universal agreement on the desirability of laissez-faire capitalism than there is on "diversity," but the latter enjoys sacred cow status within the realm of American higher education. Therefore, university administrators see nothing wrong in setting up a litmus test of fidelity to their "diversity initiatives."

     To see how blatantly inconsistent this proposal is with the core academic value of free inquiry, imagine a tenure track assistant professor of chemistry who comes to the conclusion that the push for ever-increasing "diversity" on campus detracts from the educational mission of the school. Let us say he finds that many of the students admitted under "affirmative action" policies aren't capable of handling the workload in his course. Should he say anything about it?

     If his school operates under promotion and tenure guidelines like those proposed at Virginia Tech, doing so would be risky.

     Open, honest commentary critical of "diversity" might not be held against him, but he has no way of knowing that. It would be much safer not to put his career in jeopardy by writing or saying anything negative about the diversity policies at the school. Colleges and universities constantly proclaim that they want to teach students "critical thinking" but Virginia Tech's guidelines would stifle it among faculty members who aspire to tenure and promotion.

     Most professors are acutely aware of the "publish or perish" regime they live under. Virginia Tech would add a new wrinkle: "celebrate diversity or perish.".....

     Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 7:33pm

114. This is why I label you as hyperintellectual. You bring it on yourself Posted by sjchermak at 04/12/2009 @ 5:37pm

     Didn't I just say that? Oh, it's that mature "I'm rubber and you're glue" thingy.

     Yes, you're right. I made a mistake because I was getting tired of responding to your childish tirade. And then you take away the validity of your discovery by agreeing with the point anyway. So, was it really a mistake then? I guess that I instinctually knew that you would feel that way. It became a moot point at that instant. Guess I should be more careful. Wouldn't want to put words in your mouth.

     I still don't see anyone coming to your rescue. Floating in a lifeboat in a sea of your own crap you are desperately trying to learn morse code. And I wish I WAS hyperintellectual. It would make school a lot easier. That floats in a definition limbo much like your obsessive repetitions about 'those on the left'.

     You really are sensitive about anybody suggesting you conduct yourself differently. It just ticks you off. You can call me names all day long, dude... you are still a right wing sycophant. Go back to the Michael Savage program and get some more 'information' so that we can sit back in awe and smell the crapola. Nuke the gay leftist whales!

     My favorite line of your last post: "...thus is it logical for a Conservative to feel that Sarah Palin would be doing a better job." What happened to John McCain? Wasn't he running for president? I would think that some conservatives would view that as illogical. Educate me about that one, Plato.

     Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 8:02pm

115. "You can call me names all day long, dude... you are still a right wing sycophant." Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 8:02pm

     Just want to make sure that you know this isn't a 'name', it's an actuality.

     Posted by ficheye at 04/12/2009 @ 8:05pm

116. Actually LVL. I don't know if you read it in the news but they DID protest at Notre Dame. So do you agree that they shouldn't have done it and should have just shut up and kept their heads down and in books?

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/12/2009 @ 8:18pm

117. Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 7:33pm

     I don't know how you can posssibly not see a difference between a school promoting recruiting of under-represented groups in this country and a school promoting an ideology. Only you and the crazy far right like you would equate those two things Happy. I know in your world it's cool for an entire school to be white washed but in the real world that is not representative of demographics. While I agree you shouldn't bring in kids you know won't be able to deal with the work, the article you posted is a load of BS and intentionally misleading.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/12/2009 @ 8:23pm

118. .....in the real world that is not representative of demographics.....

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/12/2009 @ 8:23pm

     There is the key `code' to being selectively politically correct...."representative of demographics"! Some demographics excel at certain things....isn't that itself, a factual celebration of "Diversity"?

     How would black folks like it if this is applied to the 3 big revenue sports....at all levels? How would academia likes it if conservatives and/or Repubs must be represented in the `proper' portions? How would Hollywood likes it if jobs must be "representative of demographics"? Would the Magic administration need to meet the goal of "representative of demographics" by staffing with 47% Repubs?

     Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 8:52pm

119. ficheye,

     The argument at the moment, you idiot, was how Sarah Palin would handle the hijacking incident regarding the Somali pirates vs how Obama is handling it....leading to the larger comment that Sarah Palin would be doing a better job than Obama.

     It was not an argument about how things would be if McCain had won the election but a hypothetical projection of how Palin would be better than Obama.

     The bit about being a right-wing sycophant is just a standard line from you on the left. (I know, you are not on the left, according to you).

     You say I take direction from Michael Savage. Mask says it is Rush Limbaugh.

     Other Conservatives here and elsewhere are told the same things, as well.

     Just another example of how you on the left (I know, you are not a leftist according to you) fancy yourselves to be intellectually superior.

     You convince yourselves that those you are arguing against are just automotons parroting back standard Conservative talking point....while you on the left (I know, you are not a leftist according to you) are engaging in deep, profound, intellectual and independent thought.

     Nobody could parody you better than you do to yourself. You are a poster child for the image people have about liberals.

     Posted by sjchermak at 04/12/2009 @ 9:16pm

120. How would black folks like it if this is applied to the 3 big revenue sports....at all levels? How would academia likes it if conservatives and/or Repubs must be represented in the `proper' portions? How would Hollywood likes it if jobs must be "representative of demographics"? Would the Magic administration need to meet the goal of "representative of demographics" by staffing with 47% Repubs?

     Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 8:52pm

     Like I said Happy, I don't believe in forcing people to choose students who are not capable of handling the workload. However when it comes to education which is the great equalizer shouldn't everyone have an equal opportunity? If you don't have an equal opportunity at the one thing in this world that can help you fully and completely get a leg up once you get into the real world then how can we even begin to claim we are the land of opportunity.

     If you can take one of two kids, an affluent child who through their connections has probably gotten into multiple colleges or a student who has worked their asses off to get to where they are who would you take if they are equal? I would take the kid who went to the poverty stricken school and truly had to work to get good grades. I would be less likely to take the kid who went to the affluent well known school because in my mind they are going to be less likely to work for what you give them whereas people truly trying to work their way out of poverty are going to work doubly as hard. Since poverty is overwhelming centralized in minorities and education is one thing that is rabidly withheld from the poor I believe they deserve a leg up more than anyone.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/12/2009 @ 11:16pm

121. How would black folks like it if this is applied to the 3 big revenue sports....at all levels? How would academia likes it if conservatives and/or Repubs must be represented in the `proper' portions? How would Hollywood likes it if jobs must be "representative of demographics"? Would the Magic administration need to meet the goal of "representative of demographics" by staffing with 47% Repubs?

     Posted by Happy at 04/12/2009 @ 8:52pm

     Once you are in the working world demographics no longer have to be represented, however if you want to ever call a system fair you AT THE VERY LEAST need to give people equal access to education. Because if you are poor and uneducated you are likely to stay poor forever and you will never know better.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/12/2009 @ 11:17pm

122. You are a poster child for the image people have about liberals. Posted by sjchermak at 04/12/2009 @ 9:16pm

     Poor CHERMAK. I honor you by responding. Try using the ignore function. The more words I write the more desperately you try to pin me down on some issue you have. And you have plenty. Sarah Palin and the pirates was the issue? I never even considered that a possible topic since I think she's nuts. And it wasn't even on this page. I was just making fun of her, not addressing her abilities as part of the topic.

     It isn't a leftist trait, thinking that she's not a very plausible candidate for anything. But you go right ahead, float around in your delusions. I'm just not a true leftist. Here's what I think: Anybody who leans too far to the left or right ... falls over. There are millions of 'people' out there who want no part of this 'my side vs your side crap. Your desperate, desperate attempts to categorize me only further entangle you in your delusional belief that you have won something. A stuffed animal maybe.

     There are people here on this blog, Right, Left, and Center that are a lot smarter than me. I'm more of a philosopher, not an analyst. I let them analyze and I learn from it. Try it sometime. And I like to learn. But when someone says something parrot-like and didactic - you, for instance - then I rear my head, just like Putin!

     Posted by ficheye at 04/13/2009 @ 01:14am