Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditWhen Barack Obama appeared on Wednesday at a town hall-style event at the Orange County Fairgrounds in Southern California, he was challenging the Republicans in their historic heartland. The area had been ground zero for the Goldwater revolution in the early 1960s. Orange County provided the core supporters and the money that launched Ronald Reagan's political career in the mid-sixties. Reagan won 75 per cent of Orange County's vote in 1984; George W. Bush won 60 per cent in 2004. The county has always been solidly Republican.
Until Obama.
The hardest of hard-core Republican congressional districts in California is coastal Orange County, centered on the wealthy town of Newport Beach – previously Chris Cox's district before George Bush elevated him to head the SEC. California political experts were stunned on Nov. 4 when Obama carried the district – by 2,500 votes. And in the city of Costa Mesa, Obama beat McCain 51-45.
Coastal Orange County wasn't the only Republican district Obama carried in California. As Harold Meyerson pointed out recently in an L.A. Times op-ed, California has 19 congressional districts that are currently Republican, and Obama won an astounding eight of them. (He also carried all 34 Democratic districts.)
Seven of the eight Republican districts Obama carried were in Southern California – in the distant L.A. suburbs including Palmdale, Lancaster, Simi Valley, Riverside, and also northern San Diego County.
What's going on here isn't a shift of traditional Republicans to the Democratic column. Older white voters still supported McCain. It's the younger people and the Latinos in the OC who voted for Obama. Significantly, these Orange County groups are growing in numbers, while the old white Republicans are dying out.
The demographic and political shift appeared first in northern Orange County in the late 1990s, when Bob Dornan was defeated by Loretta Sanchez in 1996.
Today the Bush legacy is a problem even for Orange County Republicans. "Obama is coming to a place that could be called the scene of the mortgage meltdown crime," the normally Republican Orange County Register declared Tuesday. "The largest concentration of sub prime lenders was headquartered in Orange County when the meltdown began."
California Democrats' immediate goal is to break the Republican stranglehold on the state legislature, where the Democrats hold a majority but where GOP assembly members blocked a centrist budget for months.
Obama knows the potential of Latino and younger voters in the OC and is obviously eager to recruit them to a permanent Democratic coalition. His visit to Costa Mesa Wednesday was one more step in achieving that goal – and by all measures a successful one.
Share this article
- Atrios
- Arts and Letters Daily
- The Caucus
- Campus Progress
- Crooks and Liars
- The Daily Gotham
- Daily Kos
- Echidne of the Snakes
- Ezra Klein
- FAIR
- Feministe
- Feministing
- Firedoglake
- Glenn Greenwald
- Gothamist
- In these Times
- Hendrik Hertzberg
- Huffington Post
- Hullabaloo
- Matthew Yglesias
- Media Matters
- Mother Jones
- My DD
- New York Review of Books
- Openleft
- Pam's House Blend
- Pandagon
- Political Wire
- The Progressive
- RaceWire
- Real Clear Politics
- Roberto Lovato
- Romenesko
- Swing State Project
- Talking Points Memo
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Tapped
- Tech President
- Tompaine
- The Washington Note
- Utne Reader
- Wonkette
- ZNet
RSS
Poor Obamanation. He just can't understand that he won the 2008 election and is now President of the U.S.A.! His partison political campaigning is over! Somebody please mention this to him before he makes a bigger fool of himself like attacking Jay Leno along with Rush and Cheney!
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 11:43pm
Do we have to wait for Obamanation and the Demoncrats to explain why this is going to be great for us?;
" Fannie Mae plans to pay retention bonuses of at least $1 million to four key executives as part of a plan to keep hundreds of employees from leaving the government-controlled company.
Rival mortgage finance company Freddie Mac is planning similar awards but has not reported on which executives will benefit.
The two companies, which together own or back more than half of the home mortgages in the country, have been hobbled by skyrocketing loan defaults. Fannie recently requested $15 billion in federal aid, while Freddie has sought a total of almost $45 billion.
Fannie Mae disclosed its "broad-based" retention program in a recent regulatory filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. The company was required to disclose only the amounts for the top-paid executives, who will pocket at least $470,000 on top of their base salaries.
The bonuses are more than double last year's, which ranged from $200,000 to $260,000. Another round of bonuses ranging from $330,000 to $429,000 are planned for February.
A company spokesman declined further comment.
Fannie Mae said regulators determined that the bonuses were needed because keeping key employees "was essential to ensure our viability through 2010, which would allow Congress, the administration and other parties involved time to determine what the form and function of the company will be in future years."
The bonuses were authorized last year by the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which seized control of Fannie and Freddie in September and ousted the companies' former CEOs"
Obama; I am outraged by this? (watch for it)
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/19/2009 @ 01:13am
RIO, ever heard of the phrase...
"flailing about"?
LOL
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 06:20am
My then-husband & I moved to Orange County in 1988 due to economic circumstances in Colorado. After we got there we mailed in voter registration cards - same time, same mailbox. He marked the "independent" box on his & I marked the "democrat" box on mine. He got registered but my registration card got "lost" & I didn't get to vote in that year's election. A coincidence? I doubt it. I was ecstatic to get out of Southern California 3 years later, but I'm glad to read that it's finally going democrat.
Posted by cdlepthien at 03/19/2009 @ 06:42am
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 06:20am | ignore this person | warn this person
if it were a republican doing this i wonder what his opinion would be?
"connecting with the american people to oppose the evil machinations of demoncrat commernist perfidy!" (!)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 07:30am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 07:30am
If he could find ONE Democrat out of a dozen Repubs, he'd focus on that one. If no Democrats, he'd ignore it and go to some other topic.
As most "old timers" here know, RIO/comanche hates the Democratic Party....and that's it. Nothing else going on there. If RIO's house was on fire and the local fire chief was a Democrat, RIO would let his house burn down before letting that "socialist totalitarian" put it out.
LOL
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 07:53am
Since when is it okay for a former VP to take potshots at a sitting president?
Posted by snowball666 at 03/19/2009 @ 07:38am
It's been okay with me ever since former Pres. Jimmy Cah-tah and Bubba Clinton took shots at GWB.
Here's something else to ponder....Obama being the typical good democrat that he is, does what ALL democrats do when the going gets tough in D.C. He leaves town. It gives new meaning to the term "cut and run".
Posted by fram at 03/19/2009 @ 08:25am
"previously Chris Cox's district before George Bush elevated him to head the SEC"
SEC?
Securities and Exchange Commission.
Don't they have a job/duty/reason for being?
"The mission of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission is to protect investors, maintain fair, orderly, and efficient markets, and facilitate capital formation. "
Heckuva Job Coxie!!!
"The laws and rules that govern the securities industry in the United States derive from a simple and straightforward concept: all investors, whether large institutions or private individuals, should have access to certain basic facts about an investment prior to buying it, and so long as they hold it. To achieve this, the SEC requires public companies to disclose meaningful financial and other information to the public."
Yep, Heckuva job Coxie! Way to keep an eye on Standard and Poor and Moodys and all the other Wizards of Id that hide behind the curtains blowing smoke past their mirrors.
But hey! What the hell, business can be counted on to oversee themselves, after all Men are basically good, not greedy, right? That is why God codified his rules, because Man is so basically good, he doesn't need a rule book....wait, it's opposite day...
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:35am
Geez, I was really hoping to see some serious Orange County bashing here. One of snowball666's comments was good but the rest (such as it is) has been the same old same old. Of course, there are alot of people on my ignore list.
When I first saw those endless upscale subdivisions in OC, I said "holy cow! I didn't know there were this many drug dealers on the planet!" Now, of course, those same huge, crammed together houses have spread everywhere, and I still don't know who can afford them (Oh, wait - they can't).
We have a word here (somewhere in the formerly rural Rocky Mountains) - way predating the song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers - it's Californiacation. It's the physically gross expression of the worship of wealth & social status by huge numbers of people. It's people who would rather go to the mall than go for a walk. It's people who will pre-emptively bulldoze a marsh in case an endangered species inhabits it. It's neocon politics. It's people who can't stand the smell of cows. It's people who have no clue where their food comes from. It's gated communities & homeowner's associations that won't let people put up solar panels or a clothesline. It's everywhere. It's probably unfair to blame it all on Orange County, but OC is certainly the epitome.
I would love to see Barack challenge the entire lifestyle in some symbolic sense.
Posted by cdlepthien at 03/19/2009 @ 08:40am
Posted by fram at 03/19/2009 @ 08:25am |
No, THE defining definition is Khobar Towers and Reagan.
Obama is doing what he is supposed to do as President, go out and press the flesh.
I think by this time in Bush's reign of error he had taken two vacations.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:41am
Obama being the typical good democrat that he is, does what ALL democrats do when the going gets tough in D.C. He leaves town. It gives new meaning to the term "cut and run".
Posted by fram at 03/19/2009 @ 08:25am
Aug. 9, 2007, 9:01PM
President Bush tries to set an example for Americans whenever he can, in terms of physical fitness, faith, optimism and a certain overall moral rectitude. He also sets an excellent example on taking vacation. ....
He gamely joked and mugged with reporters, at one point raising two fists in a boxing stance to illustrate what not to do in a photo op with the president of Iran.
"You don't want the picture to be kind of, you know, duking it out, you know?" Bush said " 'OK, put up your dukes.' That's an old boxing expression."
Bush's August sojourn will be his 65th trip to Crawford
The presidential vacation-time record holder is the late Ronald Reagan, who tallied 436 days in his two terms. At 418 days, and with 17 months to go in his presidency, Bush is going to beat that easily.
Even so, this year's August vacation for Bush is a contrast to previous years such as 2005, when he dragged out vacation in Texas to five weeks. That was also the year Bush remained on vacation immediately after Hurricane Katrina hit.
--Houston Chronicle
Aaaannnd, our new president has a REAL sense of humor, not locker room frat boy pull my finger while I spank this pledge humor.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:46am
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:41am
Yes, HOW MANY days was Dubya hanging out in Crawford cutting shrubs?
LITERALLY "cutting" if not running...heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 08:48am
Now if we could get the upcoming generations to throw off BOTH of our political parties and elect a new breed of socially conscious pols, with multiple parties (and revenue streams)
A boy can dream.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:52am
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 08:48am
And what happened to the "tough guy" rancher demeanor?
Looks like he moved to the City, got himself a cee-ment pond.
Swimmin pools, movie stars.
Ol' Geo bought a mansion. Lawdy it was swank
Next door neighbor was president of the bank,
Lotsa folks objected, but the banker found no fault,
'Cause ol' Jed's millions was a-layin' in the vault
Cash, that is! Capital gains, Depletion money!
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:56am
LOL
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 07:53am | ignore this person | warn this person
some things never change...
partisanship - the warmth and fuzziness of familiarity...and contempt...lol.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 08:57am
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:56am | ignore this person | warn this person
i bet their cookouts are kickass!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 09:00am
Posted by crabwalk 3/19/2009@8:35pm
My first response was the same as yours - hey Chris Cox that probably bears some responsibility for our current economic scenario - but when I went to wikipedia & read the article on him it gave him all kinds of credit for trying to "modernize" the SEC, reinforce its regulatory functions and generally make the financial system more transparent. If anyone reading this is up on the actual details of his tenure at the SEC & what it all means, he or she might want to take a gander at it.
Posted by cdlepthien at 03/19/2009 @ 09:02am
damnation!
Mens, check this out. Peer review to follow...
check that pee pee? Maybe not.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content
/full/NEJMoa0810084
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 09:08am
"but when I went to wikipedia & read the article on him it gave him all kinds of credit for trying to "modernize" the SEC, reinforce its regulatory functions and generally make the financial system more transparent."
Now we know Chimpy and/or Cox have access to Wiki. The "peoples encyclopedia".
(my apologies, I have not called him Chimpy McFLighsuit since Jan 19, but snowball opened a memory gate. )
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 09:13am
What do you think the cons response will be when (snicker) Obama dons a flight suit (chuckle) and holds up The Fleet so he can land under an "Economy Fixed" banner in July?
Will they swoon and check out the CICs package?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 09:17am
SNOWBALL, you are new here, I have to share an anecdote that I posted here last year...
My brother is an ex military, current cop, bomb squad dude, strong con, strong republican, fan of Bush,thniks he was a "Great President". The bomb squad got a couple of new Segway "Personal Transpors" for use when they are wearing their bomb suits. I asked him if they were hard to learn how to "drive".
He said "Any idiot can drive one".
Then I showed him the clip of Bush landing flat on his noggin.
My bro turned a lovely shade of red.
I laughed my Lilly white ass off. But then I remembered Granny Crabs words ..."don't make fun of the less fortunate."
Then I recalled this gem "Hire the handcapped, they are fun to watch".
I need help, it is well known.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 09:23am
posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009@9:31am
I guess I wasn't clear - I thought maybe someone would be motivated/qualified to correct or add to the wikipedia article - I realized that Cox fans had been in there. It's easy to be cynical about wikipedia but it's a pretty useful project, at least as far as getting a starting place on a topic & some baseline information. Never mind. I'm outta here for now.
Posted by cdlepthien at 03/19/2009 @ 09:28am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 08:57am
Poor RIO, last night especially bad night for him....check out these latest hypocrisies-
"This must be a game for complete fools who exist merely to HATE BUSH to the exclusion of all other subjects?"---Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 10:37pm
Maybe the Sky Isn't Falling posted by Melissa Harris-Lacewell on 03/17/2009 @ 11:37am
"You fare strongly in myopic hatred and partison cliff diving!"----Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 10:54pm
AIG's "Best and Brightest" posted by Jon Wiener on 03/17/2009 @ 11:30am
Is there anybody who more aptly fits those descriptions than....himself?
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 09:55am
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 08:56am
I question the intellect of some of our right-winger posters who get these "Attack Obama on this" from their favorite media sources....
and don't seem to remember Dubya doing 1000X worse. Classic "1984" "memory hole".
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 09:57am
What "Fight"???
So, anywhere The Messiah goes that is not Blue, he's picking a "Fight"???
This is journalism???
Posted by Happy at 03/19/2009 @ 10:01am
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 07:53am
" If RIO's house was on fire and the local fire chief was a Democrat, RIO would let his house burn down before letting that "socialist totalitarian" put it out."
These are rather ironic statements coming from you, MASK, inasmuch as you are one of the most partisan Democratic posters here. But as I have noted many times, projection and narcissism are your forte.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 10:07am
Will they swoon and check out the CICs package?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 09:17am | ignore this person | warn this person
Hey, wait a minute. That's Karl Rove's job!
Posted by schnellerheinz at 03/19/2009 @ 10:20am
"When Barack Obama appeared on Wednseday at a town hall-style event at the Orange County Fairgrounds in Southern California, he was challenging the Republicans in their historic heartland."
Has anybody told Obama that he won the last election yet? Or does he have the job of President so well in hand that he's already ready to campaign for re-election in the 2012 campaign?
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 10:20am
Is there anybody who more aptly fits those descriptions than....himself?
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 09:55am | ignore this person | warn this person
shhh...i'm saving a job for him in my future soviet states of america...something that involves checking and fixing stuff in the great outdoors...
that way he will be able to serve a useful function in society and grumble and gripe to the sky all he wants without having to be commited to an institution for the politically insane...
he'll be happier that way, i think...
from each according to his ability, to each according to his need...
LOL
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/19/2009 @ 10:53am
'Here's what I like about North Carolina: experience...' -- Barack Obama -- 17 March 2009
'...as much as I respect what he's doing, really, the economy is something that he should focus on, probably more than the brackets' -- Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski -- 17 March 2009
'In a wide-ranging interview with Charlie Rose, [Bill] Clinton suggested Obama was ... inexperienced...' -- Ari Melber -- The Nation -- 15 December, 2007
Posted by HonestLiberal at 03/19/2009 @ 10:53am
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 10:20am
All the ditto heads here just parrot their Messiah Dimbaugh.
Obama is being forced to campaign, if he just went home to the WH and closes the door, will the republicans do the same? Obama has to be in the media as he is receiveing very little support for his programs from democrats in congress and he has to sell it to the American people. He is being attacked from every angle and his own party is relatively spineless. He realizes that if he wants his ideas to move forward and to be heard he actually has to go out and sell it, the republicans have returned to their constant attack mode and if allowed to run unchecked, people will start believing their lies. So for Obama to be effective as president he needs support, therefore the need for his public "campaign" appearances. But the ditto heads will just plug their ears and continue to parrot their fat leader.
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 10:56am
He leaves town. It gives new meaning to the term "cut and run".
Posted by fram at 03/19/2009 @ 08:25am
Are you out of your friggin head?! W spent a good portion of his 8 years as president anywhere but in his office. That guy "cut and ran" more than Jerry Rice did in his career by your definition of "cut and run".....and then there's Cheney, the guy who spent the bulk of his 8 years in Wyoming.
By the way, every sitting president is called by his party to campaign on behalf of his fellow party members...or were you sleeping the last 20 or 30 years?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/19/2009 @ 10:56am
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 10:07am
Really, PONTI? How is it I voted for Republicans so often, including (sadly and embarassingly to say) Dubya in 2000?
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 11:02am
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 11:02am
"Really, PONTI? How is it I voted for Republicans so often, including (sadly and embarassingly to say) Dubya in 2000?"
Just going by what you post. If you really have voted for Republicans in the past, it sure doesn't read like it.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:14am
I just read that the Obama administration is considering releasing Gitmo detainees and letting them roam free in America. I hope that the American public gets the names and locations of these terrorists so that the American Public can take the necessary actions to protect themselves.
Posted by abell12ct at 03/19/2009 @ 11:18am
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 10:56am
"All the ditto heads here just parrot their Messiah Dimbaugh."
Unlike you folks, we don't have a Messiah, although your fellow Obama sure seems to fit that description for half the people who voted for him. Half of the Obama supporters I talk to (people I know) aren't even aware of half the policies he espouses (higher taxes on energy and everything else, etc). These poor indoctrinated folks merely believe what the media tells them. They're starting to wake up now, though.
As far as Rush Limbaugh is concerned, I regrettably hardly ever listen to him. I'm way too busy during the day to listen to the radio, but I always find him hugely entertaining in the very rare instances when I can listen to him. Aren't your Democratic friends trying to shut him up with the censorious 'Fairness Doctrine', though? How's that going?
To address your point, if what I say mirrors what Limbaugh is saying, without my even listening to the man, you might want to consider that we're simply informing you of the truth. We don't need to coordinate messages, any sensible person can see that Democratic policies and politicians are driving this country over a cliff.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:23am
Drudge had a picture of Jimmy Carter visiting the White House yesterday. That seems prescient, inasmuch as we're about to get a reprise of what Carter's policies did to this country 30 years ago - sky-high inflation, unemployment, interest rates, gold and silver prices, bear market, skyrocketing energy prices....
Gonna be a long 4 years.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:38am
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:23am
Too busy to listen to Rush, but plenty of time to post here? Your kidding about not coordinating messages right? That is hillarious, one of the great strenghts of the republicans is keeping on message, wether it rush, hannity, Oriely, or member of congress they all have the same daily talking points, it is very effective at getting whatever the message of the day is out to the public, if only the democrats were that homogenous in voice...
Any sensible person can see through the lies and realize that the republican mantra of just say no does not work when trying to fix a flailing economy. If the republicans had it their way, the government would do absolutely nothing. Except give more tax breaks to the rich and keep hoping that "trickle down" economics works one of these decades. You do realize the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result?
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 11:44am
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 11:44am
"Too busy to listen to Rush, but plenty of time to post here? "
I do computer work all day long, it only takes a fraction of a second to visit this site via a click on a Firefox tab.
"Your kidding about not coordinating messages right? That is hillarious, one of the great strenghts of the republicans is keeping on message, wether it rush, hannity, Oriely, or member of congress they all have the same daily talking"
Ever heard the saying 'if everyone is saying you're drunk it's time to sit down?'? Has it ever occurred to you that we all sound the same, not because of some vast right wing conspiracy, but because we're all independently observing the same insanity and coming to the same conclusions?
"Any sensible person can see through the lies and realize that the republican mantra of just say no does not work when trying to fix a flailing economy."
First of all, your point is in itself a phony Democratic talking point, since the Republicans have proposed many alternative solutions, it is only Obama (parroted by his mouthpieces in the media) that contends that no alternatives have been put forth. This is a bald-faced lie, of course, although you apparently have no problem believing it.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:52am
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 11:44am
Of course, it's obvious that you lefty folks will believe pretty much anything, especially if you're told to believe it. No wonder Obama feels free to talk out of both sides of his mouth so much (e.g., campaigning against earmarks, then signing a huge spending bill with 9,000 of them only two months into his term). You folks are just freaking robots who have no ability to think critically about anything related to Obama or the Democratic Party.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:04pm
the Republicans have proposed many alternative solutions, Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 11:52am
Really? Who is reporting the alternatives the republicans have offered? The only alternative I heard during the stimulus debate was more tax breaks (see insanity comment above) I don't listen to Fox Spews or Rush. You deny that republicans have talking points? Is the sky blue in your world?
As you stated the democrats have em, and so do the republicans, and the republicans much better at acting the sheep and following their shepherd, in sticking to the mantra. It is one of the strengths of your party. The drunk analogy is nice, but c'mon if all the republicans are saying the exact same phrases, use the same words even, it is just parroting their talking points from their messiah Dimbaugh.
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 12:04pm
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 12:04pm
Really? Who is reporting the alternatives the republicans have offered?
Nobody in the MSM, that's for sure.
"I don't listen to Fox Spews or Rush. "
Oh, if I may rephrase, you don't listen to anyone you don't agree with, because, presumably, everyone else is a liar? Gee, why am I not surprised. I should point out that I, a conservative, am here trying to make sense out of what the knee-jerk left is saying, thus I would humbly posit that I am far more open-minded than you.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:08pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:08pm
What's your Plan, Ponti?
If you don't have one, what is the best Plan from "the right" that you have heard?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:13pm
Speaking of idiots, last week I was watching the local news in DC and they had a black lady on tv complaining that her electricity bills were going up. Now her being black, I would have to presume she voted for Obama, who is currently proposing a cap and trade system that is designed to increase everyone's electricity, gasoline, and gas bills by over 20 percent - to START. And here she was complaining that her utility bills were going up.
I'm thinking 'helloooooooo!!!!....morons!!!!!' Do you have any idea that you're voting for higher utility bills? Nope. I don't think so. Total disjointed reality among the left and their voters.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:14pm
Jeez...
I want to have a rational discussion with Ponti, but then I read this
" ...I would humbly posit that I am far more open-minded than you.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:08pm |"
And I just can't
can't
can't
reach.
Tell me Flogic, are you still holding to the "Obama hasn't reversed a single Bush policy" strateegery?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:16pm
"Now her being black, I would have to presume she voted for Obama,"
VS
" ...I would humbly posit that I am far more open-minded than you.
See?
What are we do do with this young man?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:18pm
Non-Sequitar Alert Bulletin:
"knee-jerk left" and "I am far more open-minded than you." Posted by Pontificus.
Posted by theo51 at 03/19/2009 @ 12:19pm
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:13pm
"If you don't have one, what is the best Plan from "the right" that you have heard?"
First and foremost, don't spend trillions of dollars on useless pork projects, most of which won't even begin for years. Spend it on immediate stimulus, not building a huge unaffordable goverment (details of this are on the web if you search for it). Certainly, you won't hear or read about it from the MSM, which is muzzled by its own bias.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:20pm
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:18pm
"What are we do do with this young man?"
Ninety-five percent of black people voted for Obama, and you don't consider it reasonable to assume that any given black person most likely voted for Obama? What color is the sky in your politically correct world?
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:22pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:22pm
Normally people that walk around crowing about their open mindedness don't make presumptions to bolster their argument.
But, I see how pretty your feathers are, all preened and full of themselves.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:29pm
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:16pm
"Tell me Flogic, are you still holding to the "Obama hasn't reversed a single Bush policy" strateegery?"
What about you, nitwit?
Has Gitmo been closed down yet? Or are they still 'studying' it? So the difference between Bush and Obama is, Obama is 'studying' it and Bush wasn't? Wow, what a revolution! Change is here! We hope!
Are we out of Iraq?
Any of those 'illegal warrantless spying programs threatening Mom, apple pie, and basic American liberties' shut down? Didn't think so.
Of course, you can go on believing your own propaganda if you want to. Since the only thing that matters to you is meaningless rhetoric, then hope and change is no further away than the next speech. Just don't stray from that reality you have constructed, the real world might be quite a shock.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:31pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:20pm
that is not a Plan.
That is opposition to a Plan.
Formally known as "obstructionism" or "America Hatred".
So, you would take taxpayer money and spend it on reasonable infrastructure? I "presume" by your comment that you could see your way to spending a trillion on "immediate stimulus". What do you consider immediate stimulus?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:34pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:31pm
Breathe
breathe
slowly.
I am not the one that wrote "Obama hasn't reversed a single God Damned Bush Policy!! What do you think of that!!" Or something to that effect.
But then I didn't write stuff like "There is no recession, it is a liberal media lie" or McCain will win in a landslide, Americans would never be that stupid", either.
I expect Obama to backtrack, reverse himself, and yes, even lie. It is only you that use the terms Messiah and such. You talk yourself into knowing what we all believe, as usual. How often do open minded folk throw around "you on the left" or "typical lefty ", especially when dealing with such a myriad group of radicals as "the left"? Shit, I've even read you say Bruce Fein is a part of this left.
awwww, I've missed you Flogic. Say Hi to Levi Johnson and his not-to-be wife Bristol at the next "The right has more morals than the left"convention.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:42pm
"last week I was watching the local news in DC"----Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:14pm
PONTI, given your "memory problems"...are you sure it was "last week"..."local news in DC"...and "you"???....heheh
"I'll never forget Tom Brokaw's 'analysis' the day Carter got booted. Tom intoned:
"America threw a collective temper tantrum yesterday."----Posted by pontificus at 11/03/2008 @ 2:31pm
Fightin' for O'Bama posted by Ari Berman on 11/02/2008 @ 7:39pm
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 12:43pm
ooof, "read you say"
sorry, bad use of language.
five laps in my birkenstocks and dashiki.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:44pm
Oh, if I may rephrase, you don't listen to anyone you don't agree with, because, presumably, everyone else is a liar?
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:08pm
No, you cannot rephrase. I just try not to get my news from comedians. I don't agree with you, but I still read and respond. Still wondering what great options the "just say no" republicans had for economic recovery. Could you provide a link to one of their great ideas?
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 12:45pm
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 12:45pm
" Could you provide a link to one of their great ideas?"
google.com
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:47pm
" ...I would humbly posit that I am far more open-minded than you. "
"Speaking of idiots, last week I was watching the local news in DC and they had a black lady on tv..."
------------------
Posted by abell12ct at 03/19/2009 @ 11:18am
BOO!!
Hephalumps and Woozels.
How long do you think it is best to hold in cuba people with out charging them?
Castro goes up to life.
Yes, we should emulate him, because we are all Marxist now.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:50pm
Using The Google on The internetS
"great republican ideas"
1st hit:
"I have heard of these "great Republican Ideas" but I cannot seem to find any..."
chuckle.
damn liberal programmers!
ok, ok, The Google claims it is only 1 of 528,000.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:54pm
Good god. in cuba people
dyslexics of the world untie!!!
outa here!
Have fun working that pontiFlogic.
scratch
scratch.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:56pm
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:34pm
CRABBIE, your sophistry is boring me again. Come up with some semblance of independent thinking and some intellectual integrity, then we'll talk.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:56pm
I'm thinking 'helloooooooo!!!!....morons!!!!!' Do you have any idea that you're voting for higher utility bills? Nope. I don't think so. Total disjointed reality among the left and their voters.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 12:14pm
utility bills skyrocketed under Bush, remember what Enron did to California? The cost of heating oil and gas was going throught the roof while exxon, mobile and friends made TRILLIONS!! I am sorry who was president then? You think voting for Obama is going to raise utility bills due to a cap and trade system? You make these statements as if there is some logic behind them, the lady you refer to has not been affected by a cap and trade system, just Obama talking about it does not create it, as much as you think he has that kind of power he does not, the lady you saw is still being affected by policies from BUSH! Obama has only been in office a little over 2 months and has very few bills that we are just slowly starting to see the effects of that majority of which have not had any time to affect the economy yet.
You see the world though such a filtered lens that anything that does not fit into your ideology is blocked. And then you accuse me of not having an open mind because I don't watch FOX or listen to your Messiah Rush.
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 1:00pm
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 12:56pm
Go ahead, CRABBIE. Play the retard. You do it so well.
By the way, I would never vote for a politician who I knew would lie to me, but I guess you have lower standards. Good thing, Obama is a pretty bold liar (e.g., again, the earmarks thing I posted above). And despite the ludicrous frothings of many a lefty on this site, I have never seen an case where George Bush was shown to have lied to the country.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:01pm
google.com....Google.com....GOOGLE.COM. Man, that's precious. And in the great American Capitalist tradition, I just gonna steal that line and add it to my stand-up comedy routine.
Posted by theo51 at 03/19/2009 @ 1:01pm
Sorry, Ponti. I should know better than to ask you a question and expect an answer.
My bad.
Sandy Berger.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 1:03pm
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 1:00pm
Hmmm...so let's see. It's Bush's fault that Democrats have enacted the most stringent environmental regulations in the country, thus driving California's energy costs to be the highest in the Nation. I think I see. Gee, no wonder you hate Bush so much. He seems to be responsible for pretty much everything bad. Like the Devil, only in a business suit.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:05pm
And despite the ludicrous frothings of many a lefty on this site, I have never seen an case where George Bush was shown to have lied to the country.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:01pm
nope
never
didn't happen.
Politicians never lie.
If only I had a stronger strap on my beanie propeller cap, then I could FLY...FLY...FLY away.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/19/2009 @ 1:06pm
I just read that the Obama administration is considering releasing Gitmo detainees and letting them roam free in America. I hope that the American public gets the names and locations of these terrorists so that the American Public can take the necessary actions to protect themselves.
Posted by abell12ct at 03/19/2009 @ 11:18am
I think the reason they are being freed is because they aren't terrorists.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/19/2009 @ 1:12pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:05pm
Good grief man, your logic is that of a four year old. I could make the exact same statement referring to Obama and democrats from your point of view. But I would know it was false. Don't you see? Your blaming Obama and democrats for every problem facing the nation, that is just as crazy as the words you are trying to put into my mouth about Bush being the root of all evil. I was just attempting to point out that you can't blame Obama for current utility prices. He has not been around long enough to have that type of effect. Your reality filter must be like hearing the teacher in the peanuts cartoon. " wah, waah wah, wah wah, Bush. Wah wah wah bad, wah, wah wah wah." Reality calling Ponti... Ponti?
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 1:18pm
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:01pm
PONTI, speaking of "bold liars"...
what was the "local TV station" "in DC" that you were watching "last week"? What channel? What call letters?
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 1:32pm
Ponti: "I don't need your steenkin' truths."
Posted by theo51 at 03/19/2009 @ 1:41pm
And despite the ludicrous frothings of many a lefty on this site, I have never seen an case where George Bush was shown to have lied to the country.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 1:01pm
Talk about a closed mind.
Didn't Bush say he would fire whoever outed Valerie Plame? Instead he commutes the courts sentence. And the righties on this site complain that taking the bonuses of AIG employees undermines the rule of law.
The world that Ponti lives in must be really strange. I can't imagine any sane person actually thinking that Bush or for that matter any politican not telling lies. Somehow Ponti has fanatical faith in the rightness of his party such that any truths or reality that contradict his blind faith must be false. Still chuckling about him telling me I have a closed mind for not getting my news from his Messiah Rush or the bastion of unbiased media that is FOX.
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 1:48pm
"I have never seen an case where George Bush was shown to have lied to the country."
So I used that Google.com that was recommended, that left wing, commie, neo-marxist, liberal conspiracy returned 11.9 million hits. Here are some of the highlights.
LIE: "I propose larger Pell Grants for students who prepare for college with demanding courses in high school." (2004 SOU)
FACT: The Bush administration has eliminated 84,000 students from the Pell Grants program and reduced grants to another 1.5 million students. Its FY2005 budget freezes Pell Grant awards. (Center for American Progress 02.03.04)
LIE: The Bush administration spread stories that the outgoing Clinton administration vandalized the White House with obscene graffiti, file cabinets glued shut, phone wires cut and pornography left on fax machines.
FACT: The General Accounting Office found no evidence of vandalism, wires slashed, equipment damaged or other evidence to match the allegations. (Boston Globe 05.28.01)
LIE: "And that changed, the law changed on- roving wiretaps were available for chasing down drug lords. They weren't available for chasing down terrorists, see?"
FACT: Roving wiretaps were available prior to 9/11 against drug lords and terrorists. Prior to the law, the FBI could get a roving wiretap against both when it had probable cause of crime for a wiretap eligible offense. What the Patriot Act did is make roving wiretaps available in intelligence investigations supervised by the secret intelligence court without the judicial safeguards of the criminal wiretap statute. (Cassel – Counterpunch 04.26.04)
Posted by Misheley at 03/19/2009 @ 2:13pm
I have not added pontificus to my ignore list because he actually makes me smarter. I have to do some serious research so I can form logical, thoughtful counter arguments, thereby broadening and deepening my understanding of many topics.
Plus, it's always good to know what the crazy element is up to.
Posted by Misheley at 03/19/2009 @ 2:31pm
Posted by Extraneous at 03/19/2009 @ 1:18pm
"I was just attempting to point out that you can't blame Obama for current utility prices. He has not been around long enough to have that type of effect. "
You missed the point. If Obama's carbon cap and trade policies are enacted, then utility prices will rise for everyone, and not just a little bit, we're talking major, major increases. Thus, I was pointing out the absurdity of Obama voters complaining about the cost of electricity rising, when in fact, the politician they just voted for has publicly and purposefully proposed do raise them even more. Is this plain enough for you?
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 3:13pm
Posted by Misheley at 03/19/2009 @ 2:13pm
Yeah, you know, the weatherman said it was going to rain today, and it didn't rain, so I guess he's a liar too. Gee, seems there's liars everywhere. Everybody's a liar, so no-one is. Sounds like a reprise of the Clinton defense.
Posted by Misheley at 03/19/2009 @ 2:13pm
"FACT: Roving wiretaps were available prior to 9/11 against drug lords and terrorists. Prior to the law, the FBI could get a roving wiretap against both when it had probable cause of crime for a wiretap eligible offense. What the Patriot Act did is make roving wiretaps available in intelligence investigations supervised by the secret intelligence court without the judicial safeguards of the criminal wiretap statute. (Cassel – Counterpunch 04.26.04)"
Hmmmm. I just heard that Obama's intelligence agencies intend to make use of the same methods that Bush did under the Patriot Act, having found them perfectly acceptable, just as all judicial reviews have done. And if judicial reviews find these methods legal, and the Obama Administration finds them acceptable in the same manner as the Bush Administration, exactly what is the problem? In short, it does appear that there is quite a bit of lying going on, but I think it's the people who are feeding you this nonsense.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 3:21pm
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 1:32pm
"what was the "local TV station" "in DC" that you were watching "last week"? What channel? What call letters?"
I think it was Fox 5 WTTG, only because that's the local news I usually watch. Could have been WJLA 7. Why does it matter? Why do you ask seemingly pointless questions?
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 3:24pm
Complaining that enacting cap and trades is going to drive up utility prices, is a little like complaining that stopping the cutting and burning Amazon rainforest will drive up the cost of beef. Hard to argue with that, but it rather misses the point.
Pollution is pollution, it doesn't even matter if you're one of the remaining flat earthers who still dispute anthropological global warming - the fact is, cap and trades will result in cleaner air. Do you really think that we can continue to live the way we do on a finite planet and never pay the bill?
you say this as if it is evidence that the person who voted for Obama is deluded. on the contrary, perhaps those who voted for Obama understand better than you do that most wonderfully conservative of ideas, that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Posted by canaro71 at 03/19/2009 @ 4:02pm
Posted by canaro71 at 03/19/2009 @ 4:02pm
"Pollution is pollution, it doesn't even matter if you're one of the remaining flat earthers who still dispute anthropological global warming - the fact is, cap and trades will result in cleaner air. Do you really think that we can continue to live the way we do on a finite planet and never pay the bill? "
Yes, well, it's nice to have cleaner air. But I don't think it's so nice that I'd give up food for it. Nor would I be willing to pay $120 a month extra to lower the atmospheric concentrations of non-pollutants like carbon dioxide, PERHAPS, from 365 to 355 ppm 30 years from now. Neither, I suspect, would most Americans, including the presumable Obama voter who was complaining about her electricity bill going up last week. That is, if they were actually INFORMED by the MSM about what Obama intends to do, and why.
In fact, the whole AGW debate, with respect to cap and trade, is a red herring. I would say that it is nothing more than a scam designed to raise revenues to feed the ravenous tax appetites for governments in the US and globally (the UN is demanding trillions for the US also), in order to pay for the trillions in spending that Obama and the Democrats in Congress are dishing out to their friends and political contributors.
The whole point of the AGW scam is to raise taxes. And the typical lefty is suckered right in.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 4:13pm
"I think it was Fox 5 WTTG, only because that's the local news I usually watch. Could have been WJLA 7. Why does it matter? Why do you ask seemingly pointless questions?"----Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 3:24pm
So if we contact WTTG or WJLA and ask them if "last week" they ran the story of the woman complaining about her utility bills....you sure about that?
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 8:33pm
Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 8:33pm
"So if we contact WTTG or WJLA and ask them if "last week" they ran the story of the woman complaining about her utility bills....you sure about that?"
MASK, you're an idiot. Go fuck off.
Posted by pontificus at 03/19/2009 @ 10:12pm
You may lay as many facts before Ponti as you wish, it will not change his opinions on anything. Nobody can parse a statement like he, nobody can grant as much leeway to his side and be so tight to yours. Nobody, except for maybe commanche, is as partisan as Ponti, yet he can humbly claim to be open minded.
He is to humble, knowledgeable and open minded as GW was to humbleded, knowledgeably and strateegeric.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/20/2009 @ 06:24am