AIG's "Best and Brightest"

"We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent," AIG says, unless they pay those bonuses -- $165 million. Barney Frank had the best and brightest reply: on the Rachel Maddow Show Monday night, he said: "I don't want to retain them."

He's talking about the people at AIG who brought down the company and then the financial institutions and then the rest of the world economy. "If you are trying to undo mistakes," Frank said, "it‘s very often not a good idea to keep the people who made the mistakes in there."

But that $165 million is only the latest in outrageous payments to "the best and brightest" talent at AIG. The disaster was rooted in AIG's Financial Products Group in London. In 2008, when the unit was collapsing, "they were still paying the head of the unit a consulting fee of $1 million a month," according to Gretchen Morgenson of the New York Times, interviewed Monday on "Fresh Air with Terry Gross."

That man's name, for the record, is Joe Cassano. He left AIG a year ago, and these days he is not giving interviews; Morgenson said he is "lawyered up."

And the claim that AIG needs to pay bonuses to the people who brought the company down is only the latest in outrageous arguments. AIG was collapsing because it didn't have sufficient capital reserves to pay the insurance claims on the risky financial instruments it insured. Normally insurance companies are required to have sufficient reserves to pay claims, but the people AIG was insuring against loss -- Deutsche Bank, Barclays, BNP Paribas - did not require it to put aside any reserve for future potential losses, Morgenson reports. That's because AIG had such a high credit rating from Moody's and Standard and Poor's.

But when people have tried to sue the rating companies for incompetence, Morgenson told Terry Gross, the companies claimed their ratings are "opinions, just like a newspapers opinions," and "are therefore protected by the First Amendment." The courts thus far have accepted that argument.

The Obama Treasury Department apparently has accepted AIG's argument that it is contractually obligated to pay the bonuses – because the government cannot order a private company to break its contracts. Barney Frank had a good idea: the government wouldn't have to order a private company to break its contracts; the owners of the company could do that. "I want the American government to assert its right of ownership in this company," Frank told Rachel Maddow. "We own 80 percent. We should run the company."

Comments (55)

1. Frank is right.

   We should have the SEC & FBI began fraud investigations of the AIG Financial Products group, including Casanno.

   If no criminal investigations occur, you'll know the fix is in, for the very least to cover up incompetence/complicity at SEC, Treasury, Fed NY.

   Posted by sloper at 03/17/2009 @ 11:55am

2. It'll be interesting to see if our free-marketeer/corporations know best Right-wing friends stick with their defense of the AIG bonuses...

   putting them (once again) in opposition to 80% of the country???

   Posted by Mask at 03/17/2009 @ 12:06pm

3. The US government gave AIG 165 billion dollars and here we are arguing about a mere 165 million dollars...thats one tenth of one percent of 165 billion. Let talk about the other 99.9% of the money. Where did it go and what will we as taxpayers get back?

   Are there not other insurers that can fill the market? Let em go bankrupt. They deserve it. Once they restructure it will sort itself out.

   Yes we should stop the $165 million payouts too.

   Posted by notsleepy at 03/17/2009 @ 12:07pm

4. By Senator Jim Inhofe

   "When it comes to AIG, outrage doesn't even come close.

   But let's be clear on where the outrage should be targeted – the 74 Senators, including now President Obama, who voted in favor of handing over an unprecedented amount of money and power to an unelected bureaucrat last October. The AIG situation is clear evidence of what happens when you shovel money out the door with no strings attached and no transparency.

   Of course, there have been calls for change, but with little result. President Obama's Treasury Secretary came out over a month ago, February 11th, and said he had a plan for a change in course, but he didn't actually have a plan. We haven't heard from him since. Where is Tim Geithner? Where is the leadership on this? Where is the change in course? Where is the accountability?

   I've said for a very long time, from the outset in fact, that the federal government needs an exit strategy for its entanglement into the financial system. The revelations that AIG is trying to give hundreds of millions in bonuses at the same time it's the recipient of the biggest government bailout in US history shows why."

   One things for sure you will find nothing as direct or concise from Obamanation and the Demoncrats. Why because the Demoncrats meddling in fiancial and banking legislation of the past century caused the debacle and now they are perpetuating the same degree of foolishness in trying to handle their mess! There has been NO Republican input allowed, so this is their baby alone!

   Posted by comancheamerican at 03/17/2009 @ 1:29pm

5. This is the same political economy view of markets that has dominated US (and UK too) economic policy for over a generation now, the Friedman monetarism and Fama efficient market theory which has brought us to where we are now. While Obama's own views don't accept the absoluteness of markets as wholeheartedly as the moneterists do, Summers, Bernanke, and Geithner still remain comitted to minimal government intervention and believe markets better manage themselves and should be allowed to decide winners and losers, including selecting the best and brightest.

   All the anger should not distract that policy remains subsidizing AIG regardless, and will not change regardless of compensation.

   By now this policy has proven itself a failure and we do need a change if we are not to end up once more socializing structural failures and privatizing success, continuing bailouts at the expense of social and economic insurance program, which AIG and its management and compensation are a prime examples of.

   Charlie M.

   Posted by cmsandia at 03/17/2009 @ 1:44pm

6. Recently (?) disclosed by AIG is that they hired someone 4 months ago...and still we bail them out! Only one of 2 options...this is so complex that no one will ever figure it out...so everyone will have to cut their losses on AIG or that the new hire is as incompetent as the prior heads of the financial department that were major players in the entire financial meltdown.

   Pick your poison...but whatever, whichever, we the American people just want this over...and have been quite patient and supportive of a very ugly process...but someone needs to tell us the real truth and let us get on with whatever the fallout will be....dragging this on, hoping for the best is NOT the answer.

   Posted by afisher at 03/17/2009 @ 2:05pm

7. who handles congressional pensions and insurance? would you be surprised?

   Posted by signothetimes at 03/17/2009 @ 2:16pm

8. TAX THESE PEOPLE AT 99.9999%.

   Congress should immediately pass a law that ANY employee working for a company receiving government bailout money will have ALL pay over $500,000 taxed at 99.9999 percent. No exemptions, no exceptions and all pay means salary, bonuses, stock options and perks. Let AIG pay them a million dollars in a bonus. The IRS will immediately deduct the tax and the employee will collect $10.00

   This should throw the fear of God into a LOT of executives with big salaries at failing companies like Citigroup, GM, Bank of American, etc.

   Write your congressman.

   Posted by ABowers at 03/17/2009 @ 2:17pm

9. What fraud ? Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, among others on the taxpayer payroll, knew all about this months ago. Pelosi wrote the bailouts' language. Now there are 3 ant-Americans we'd like to see canned.

   Posted by tucanofulano at 03/17/2009 @ 2:41pm

10. "Frank is right.

    We should have the SEC & FBI began fraud investigations of the AIG Financial Products group, including Casanno.

    If no criminal investigations occur, you'll know the fix is in, for the very least to cover up incompetence/complicity at SEC, Treasury, Fed NY."

    Amen and God bless you, "Sloper"!

    Barney Frank is right: the government owns enough of AIG to control it. The government needs to start exercising control, but our Treasury Secretary acts as though AIG had bought out the government, rather than the other way around.

    God forbid that this nightmare scenario should actually be true...

    Posted by JakobFabian at 03/17/2009 @ 2:43pm

11. thanks to Sen Inhofe for distilling the financial crisis to: It's the Democrats' fault. i would guess that the problems represented by AIG are a bit more complicated. if you're into finger-pointing, like the good senator, there's lots of blame to go around: from the 1999 Gramm-Leach bill, to Clinton for signing it, for the last eight years of unregulated lenders handing out loans like candy, to consumers getting in over their heads, to unregulated securities wizards on Wall Street who devised phony mortgage-backed securities based on shoddy loans, to the unregulated credit rating agencies who rated all that toilet paper AAA, and for the blind greed of all those unregulated banks, investment banks and insurers who bought their own crap. the Obama administration's handling of the AIG bonuses is a bit of a distraction. the bonuses, while outrageous, are a relatively small slice of a mand-made financial disaster that dwarfs all Katrina, Andrew, Gustav and Ike. we're not bailing out AIG. we're bailing out Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, ScoGen and other who insured the lousy securities with the Panglosses at AIG. why are bailout efforts focussed at that end of the financial pipeline? why not "bail out" Goldman and other investors by suspending mark-to-market accounting rules, and pump the trillions of bailout dollars into consumers' mortgages? if the underlying mortgages are made good, then we wouldn't see all those losses on derivatives. or we could just blame the Democrats.

    Posted by John Shutt at 03/17/2009 @ 2:58pm

12. I'd be interested to know where others think one should start in draining the swamp:

    a) with the $165 Million AIG bonuses that are based on the dollar value of fraud committed(the illusionary, phantom profits), rather than on long run value or real profit created. Without taxpayer money these contracts could not be honored.

    b) with prosecuting Hank Paulson and Robert Rubin for lying to the American public and playing the "mushroom cloud" card in terms of threatening martial law if Goldman Sachs interests were not protected by the taxpayer, and in letting their competitor Lehman Bros. fail.

    Why are Paulson and Rubin not in jail with Madoff? And why are they still in position of power, advising Obama? The crimes THEY are guilty of are in the order of $10Trillion, 60 times what AIG is trying to scam from the public.

    Posted by erichwwk at 03/17/2009 @ 3:08pm

13. Whether it's AIG, Citi, Morgan Stanley, B of A, Merrill, Goldman Sachs, or any other the other thieves, who expropriate and commit fraud by the modern 'innovative' alchemy scheme of "negative externality cost dumping'; the sentence must be the same ---- total restitution of 'commonwealth' funds, and then prison.

    "Claw-back", restitution, and disgorgement are not expropriation when the taxpayers' 'commonwealth' has been looted ----- even when the looting is guilefully accomplished through 21st century theft via 'negative externality cost dumping' on the public.

    The first chance for the looting banksters, hedge fund whores and private equity pirates should be 'claw-back' until the term NBCB (nothing but claw back) becomes as oft repeated as Thatcher's inane TINA. [See, there IS an alternative, Margaret.]

    Then, when 'claw-back' doesn't cause the ruling-elite Empire to drop the loot (which they won't), the second phase must be 'capital reform' --- akin to the success of 'land reform' when the elites fail to allow land or capital to be used effectively for society's needs.

    'Capital Reform', like 'land reform', is close to expropriation --- but expropriation for reason, and is legally done if the government complies with the will of the people. If the government does not, either because it is totally controlled by the ruling-elite, or Empire, then the government needs to be reformed itself --- "with extreme prejudice", as the saying goes.

    Alan MacDonald Sanford, Maine

    Posted by amacd at 03/17/2009 @ 3:13pm

14. I say, fire those suckers! Let them eat on food stamps and unemployment benefits! Even Homer Simpson could do a less destructive job, IMHO, and all he needs is some cheap beer to keep him happy!

    Posted by woboyle at 03/17/2009 @ 3:35pm

15. "If the government does not, either because it is totally controlled by the ruling-elite, or Empire, then the government needs to be reformed itself --- "with extreme prejudice", as the saying goes."----Posted by amacd at 03/17/2009 @ 3:13pm

    We need a Convention, like a "Star Trek Convention" of ALL the "Revolutinaries".

    Can get the "bring down the Elite banker/capitalist imperialist swine" from one side...

    and the "take back the country from the godless socialists who want to take er guns" from the other side and have a panel discussion with Glenn Beck and whoever runs the "Ecumenical Liberation Army".

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 03/17/2009 @ 3:38pm

16. If no criminal investigations occur, you'll know the fix is in, for the very least to cover up incompetence/complicity at SEC, Treasury, Fed NY.

    Posted by sloper at 03/17/2009 @ 11:55am

    Yep. I suggested appointing Elliot Spitzer in some sort of capacity in the DOJ....but perhaps his services might be useful in the financial arena. The guy liked hookers, but his sins pale in comparison with these AIG jackasses.

    If Obama is smart, he may consider letting Spitzer get a little revenge upon those who set him up and outted him.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/17/2009 @ 3:48pm

17. It'll be interesting to see if our free-marketeer/corporations know best Right-wing friends stick with their defense of the AIG bonuses...

    putting them (once again) in opposition to 80% of the country???

    Posted by Mask at 03/17/2009 @ 12:06pm

    Mask, I can't remember who was rambling on about a week ago about the laws of economics governing and straightening everything out. So, I guess because of the laws of supply and demand, we (the tax payers) are obligated to pay these highly intelligent folks at AIG their obscene bonuses for services not rendered.

    Last I checked, there isn't much demand for incompentent fools who managed to run their company into the ground as well as create a depression like run on the banking system via the world market sliding off the edge of a cliff. We are left only to ponder why these assholes are getting these bonuses. Perhaps they were truly carrying out the orders of their superiors and did exactly what they were supposed to do and are now reaping the benefits for a job well done. If that is the case, there is more reason than any for an investigation of AIG, the big cheeses behind AIG and why the hell the U.S. government is so concerned about bailing foreign banks out.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/17/2009 @ 4:02pm

18. Here's an interesting quote from a blogger:

    "Why are the contracts with AIG execs more valid than the contracts between the automakers and autoworkers? Congress INSISTED that the autoworkers take pay cuts -- and MODIFY THE CONTRACTS they had negotiated -- before the automakers got federal money? . . . If the federal government owns 80% of AIG, what control do we have over the actions of management?"

    Posted by bookmanjb2 at 03/17/2009 @ 4:12pm

19. notsleepy has made my point, thanks. I want accountability for the $165 mil, far more I want to know how the banks used the $350 billion from the first TARP give-away. We all remember the bush/paulson TARP $700 billion plan written, fully 3 pages in depth, on the back of some bar room napkins. Where are there even any questions in the political or media world about that rip? What will it take to restore sanity to our nation? Remember the line, 'freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose'? Are we there yet?

    Posted by racom40 at 03/17/2009 @ 4:49pm

20. Obama's pose/posture is inexcusable. His men insisted that the auto union workers contracts be shredded but the AIG contracts are sacrosanct?

    Handwriting was on the wall on this one: Obama taught at the University of Chicago law school (Home of Tory, free-marketer economist Milton Friedman ), hired UChicago economist Austan Goolsbee as his advisor on things economic and globalizing. (Remember the Canada free-trade flap?) Further, hired members from Robert Rubin's unregulated free-traders found at Citibank/Citigroup/Harvard/Central Bank --like Summers, Geithner, etc.

    They all drank the wild west gambling casino economic kool-aid and then their world went into melt-down and still, incredibly, they are running (ruining) the show.

    As for AIG, sure, resign, suicide or jail. AIG'ers did at least 2 crimes: 1-it took in subprime junk mortgages and relabeled them as AAA or AA securities, (Selling junk as gold is fraud).

    2- Its credit default operation in London was really a gambling casino. Bets (sometimes called insurance) were placed on anything--for example, would so and so's dog die in a fire on April 3, 2013? Hundreds of people could place this bet. And, here's the crime, they never put in the money to support these bets in case someone won the bet. Instead, they relied on the government bailing them out. If they made money on the gambling casino it was theirs, if they lost they taxpayers would bail them out.

    As I said, AIG'ers resign, commit suicide or go to jail. (don't pass home and don't collect $200.00)

    Posted by hkaplan at 03/17/2009 @ 4:49pm

21. Unless the payments are stopped, the public cynicism that will result if the "bonuses" and so-called "retention incentives" lavished on AIG execs are paid will enormously harm the credibility of the entire "bailout" process started by the prior Administration.

    Considering that decisions of those at AIG getting the so-called "bonuses" were not merely bad decisions, but disastrous ones that may have destroyed the company itself as well as the entire world economy, shouldn't we be instead suing those wanting the bonuses or at least investigating their actions for possible, or even probable, fraud, misrepresentation, conversion and/or collusion? After all, it was their job to have known of the danger. That's what they were educated, trained and hired to do and therefore they must have acted with either gross negligence, reckless indifference or even criminal intent.

    If the AIG directors concede such bonuses are ill considered, but claim nothing can be done, why not take the company into voluntary bankruptcy? The bankruptcy court can cancel any executory contracts including contracts for bonuses even if they are otherwise unbreakable contracts.

    If the current directors made such a terrible decision and claim nothing can be done, then since the government now apparently owns about 80% of the company, shouldn't we at a minimum be seeking to remove all the current directors for total incompetency?

    In any event, wouldn't it be perfectly legal to fire anyone who actually accepts a bonus? Let them try to find a new job in the depressed economy they helped damage.

    Signed: Lawlessone, a licensed business lawyer

    Posted by lawlessone at 03/17/2009 @ 6:05pm

22. I'm getting a little fatigued at Obama wagging his fingers at these guys but taking no real action. Simon Johnson, former IMF director appeared on 2 NPR shows and Bill Moyers last week stating his position that we need to nationalize the banks soon, otherwise these "zombies" will bring down the international economy. I don't see the boyz from Citicorps and Goldman Saks ready to do that anytime soon. I was very hopeful while donating years of time and money to the Democrats; but I may not be continuing in this endeaver long without some progressive movement. Thank God for the "Nation".

    Posted by diafos at 03/17/2009 @ 7:22pm

23. If Obama is smart, he may consider letting Spitzer get a little revenge upon those who set him up and outted him. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/17/2009 @ 3:48pm

    That would be real action. But Obama acts under constraints," viz. he's surrounded by advisors who detest/are terrified of Spitzer.

    Spitzer can still practice law in NYS. Perhaps he should set up shop with some other class action lawyers, repping victims. On recovery, well in the future, Spitzer & partners would collect contingency fees in the 35% range. Meanwhile, Spitzer is a rich man & could finance himself for years while those suits progress. He might (probably would) uncover crimes committed, and refer these to the authorities. Might be uncomfortable for govt if the authorities then didn't move.

    I know, their skins are thick.

    Just thinking aloud here.

    Posted by sloper at 03/17/2009 @ 8:32pm

24. Pfftt...whfft... Wow there are a lot of angry people out there in America. Everyone is speaking on the same theme. These clowns on Wall St. and the clowns running the Detroit auto industry need to get tossed out. Nationalize these industries, get rid of the managements that failed woefully (the whole lot) and get rid of the rubber stamp boardroom do-nothings. The stockholders risked their capital by investing in these companies and now they are wiped out. So be it. Capitalism is hardball folks, isn't that a contract that can't be broken? I'm for Obama but he is losing traction with the American people, including myself! Listen closely and hear America saying ENOUGH, ENOUGH !!! Time to fix the economy, end the wars, put people back to work but not building Hummers or dealing deritives. Lets move on to global warming before it moves on to us. We have some real work to do here people, lets not waste time on bonuses to the AIG gang. I'm a Venution and I can see how wrong this is. Come on people, raise those voices and take back the country for the people.

    Ven from Venus

    Posted by J. Daley at 03/17/2009 @ 9:09pm

25. Make that derivitives

    Posted by J. Daley at 03/17/2009 @ 9:20pm

26. Here is your bombshell:

    " ... Senator Ron Wyden said on Tuesday that the furor surrounding AIG's bonus payments could have been avoided had the Obama White House and members of Congress simply backed legislation that he and Sen. Olympia Snowe introduced more than a month ago.

    In an interview with the Huffington Post, the Oregon Democrat noted that during the crafting of the stimulus package, he and his Republican colleague from Maine introduced a provision that would have forced bailout recipients to cap their bonuses at $100,000. Any amount paid above that would have been taxed at 35 percent. The language made it through the Senate, but during conference committee with the House, it was inexplicably removed ..."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/17/wyden -my-bill-could-have_n_176084.html

    Whoever stripped this legislation of the provision Wyden describes should never be elected or appointed to any public office again in his or her life, regardless of who is responsible.

    Posted by syfriendly at 03/17/2009 @ 9:34pm

27. Things take soooo much time. Like a stable awareness that 50000000 in America are uninsured. America's only just beginning to wake up to 'corporatocracy' (increasing blending of big business and big government). Just a few weeks ago, McCain was piping 'socialist' and 'redistributionist' through these mega-media machines, along with the latest distortions of the old trickle down lie. A common variant being 'small business' related garbage.

    The AIG flap as others have pointed out is very narrow in scope. I think there's a positive side to the economic meltdown in that it's helping shift American's view of capitalism as some perfect reflection of "freedom", ever so slowly.

    Think how many scandals it took over Bush's 8 years in power to shift the political center just a little. Look at all the hangeron'r's here, with their Cheney/Limbaugh idol worship.

    Fortunately a little this time mattered a lot.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/17/2009 @ 10:09pm

28. Its not a question of "blame the Demoncrats", it WAS the Demoncrats and the Obamanation administration who have known about this for months and even "INCLUDED LANGUAGE" which protects the bonuses in THEIR bill!

    "Democratic Sen. Christopher Dodd on Monday criticized the bonuses given to executives of American International Group Inc. and suggested that the government could tax the recipients to recoup some or all of the payouts.

    But it was Dodd who inserted language -- known as the Dodd amendment -- in the $787 billion stimulus bill that allowed all bonuses awarded before February 11, 2009, to be paid to AIG executives. That very amendment, which is now law, is now the chief hurdle to government officials who want to recover that money.

    The amendment was meant to restrict executive pay for bailed-out banks, but it also included the exception for "contractually obligated bonuses agreed on or before Feb. 11, 2009."

    Dodd is the largest single recipient of 2008 campaign donations from AIG, with $103,100, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. That was more than presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain got, and nearly three times the $35,965 Sen. Hillary Clinton received. "

    :et the BLAME lie were it truely BELONGS on the Demoncrats that wrote the bill and would NOT let the Republican see it or even US as Obamanation promised! KEEP THE LIES COMING FOLKS!!!

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 12:07am

29. AIG execs did not perform their implied duty to prepare for an increase in defaults so the company can function.they broke the contract .Tax em big.

    Posted by worker-bee at 03/18/2009 @ 02:43am

30. Whoever stripped this legislation of the provision Wyden describes should never be elected or appointed to any public office again in his or her life, regardless of who is responsible.

    Posted by syfriendly at 03/17/2009 @ 9:34pm

    Well put. Actually, it would be funny to see their name stated publicly. Our government is supposed to be a public entity is it not? NOT!!! Private business has been calling the shots in D.C. for quite a long time now folks. Nothing to see here, move on.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 03:37am

31. Handwriting was on the wall on this one: Obama taught at the University of Chicago law school (Home of Tory, free-marketer economist Milton Friedman ), hired UChicago economist Austan Goolsbee as his advisor on things economic and globalizing. (Remember the Canada free-trade flap?) Further, hired members from Robert Rubin's unregulated free-traders found at Citibank/Citigroup/Harvard/Central Bank --like Summers, Geithner, etc.

    They all drank the wild west gambling casino economic kool-aid and then their world went into melt-down and still, incredibly, they are running (ruining) the show. .....Posted by hkaplan at 03/17/2009 @ 4:49pm

    I was suspicious of that myself. I wondered why the wallstreet folks would donate as much money to Obama as they did. But, as you brought up, he did teach at Milton Friedman's Church and his appointees are certainly loyal to the neocon methodology. I this truly is the case, we may be in for long long rainy days.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 03:42am

32. The more one wades through this mess the deeper it gets. It's like wading in a sewage flooded street in new Orleans and stepping into a deep hole.

    Posted by julien38 at 03/18/2009 @ 06:42am

33. We should begin an investigation of the original stimulus bill that provided for an "exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009," which exempts the AIG bonuses. This provision was put in by my Senator from Connecticut, Chris Dodd. He makes me embarrassed to admit that I am from CT.

    Posted by abell12ct at 03/18/2009 @ 09:05am

34. I'm listening to the house hearing with Liddy. They are breaking as predicted, Bachus, Price, all for the old casino economy. Bachus "the government can't manage this business". He is probably right, let's elect a government that can.

    Posted by julien38 at 03/18/2009 @ 09:37am

35. Posted by abell12ct at 03/18/2009 @ 09:05am

    First...do you favor the AIG execs getting their bonuses or not?

    Posted by Mask at 03/18/2009 @ 09:47am

36. Friehling, Madoff's auditor accountant, has just been charged with several counts of fraud that could lead to 105 years in jail.

    Now nailed, and only 49 years old, he can be squeezed by the govt for info on all the other accomplices to fraud ... especially those in the Madoff clan ... who in turn might have some useful info to impart on other frauds in other firms & banks.

    Could finally turn out to be satisfying & exemplary, this particular sideshow to the main ring & the bailout swindles.

    Posted by sloper at 03/18/2009 @ 10:46am

37. Bachus "the government can't manage this business". He is probably right, let's elect a government that can. Posted by julien38

    Yeah right. Good luck with that.

    Posted by abell12ct at 03/18/2009 @ 10:58am

38. Posted by abell12ct at 03/18/2009 @ 10:58am

    abell, maybe you missed it. I asked-

    Do you favor the AIG execs getting their bonuses or not?

    Posted by Mask at 03/18/2009 @ 12:03pm

39. Mask its NOT a matter of favoring it, it is a matter of upholding the LAW! You know the rule of law and constitutionality you leftist always claim is supreme but think it does not apply to you! Ask Dodd why he wanted the bonuses PAID?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 12:26pm

40. Restore the "rule of law" which leftist always demand!!!

    Under U.S. law, Chapter 11 bankruptcy allows a company to reorganize. Chapter 7 allows a company to dissolve itself.

    The choices for AIG, as both an insurance and non-insurance company, are more complicated, but ultimately boil down to the same options. And for other companies either receiving or looking to receive a bailout from the taxpayers, the option should instead be bankruptcy.

    Bankruptcy would send a needed message to U.S. investors: Don't assume the government will bail you out when you do something stupid.

    And most importantly, bankruptcy would replace the rule of politicians over U.S. financial institutions with the rule of law.

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 12:47pm

41. Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 12:26pm

    "Don't matter"....well, atleast offer your opinion, RIO. You're not shy about that normally.

    Do you or don't you think those AIG execs should get their bonuses? lvlib/antisoc stepped up...can't you?

    Posted by Mask at 03/18/2009 @ 1:15pm

42. Mask its NOT a matter of favoring it, it is a matter of upholding the LAW! You know the rule of law and constitutionality you leftist always claim is supreme but think it does not apply to you! Ask Dodd why he wanted the bonuses PAID?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 12:26pm

    Rio, What part of 80% ownership don't you understand. The U.S. government owns 80% of AIG. That means that AIG is owned by the tax payers. The owners dictate what happens in companies, not the workers, especially non-union companies. Since the company was taken over, and in effect it is bankrupt, all bets are off.

    The government has several options it can exercise and one is to flat out fire those people getting the huge bonuses. That's pretty much standard operating procedure in the private business world, what's different about these assholes besides the fact that they did something to where a good lot of them deserve to be fired in the first place.

    In this case the tables have been turned. The corporate jackasses who usually weild the power and fire their underlings at will have been caught red handed. Also, their companies didn't claim bankruptcy, they did worse, they asked for federal bail out money to shore up their bad debt. They aren't in a position to demand anything let alone bonuses.

    A UAW worker wouldn't have near the rights you are whining about for these robber barons.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 1:32pm

43. barons....sorry, barrons.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 1:33pm

44. They aren't in a position to demand anything let alone bonuses.

    A UAW worker wouldn't have near the rights you are whining about for these robber barons.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 1:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    So why did Dodd and the Demoncrats INCLUDE paying the bonuses?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 2:01pm

45. So why did Dodd and the Demoncrats INCLUDE paying the bonuses?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 2:01pm

    Good question. If they did this, their asses should be new mown grass.

    Now, answer my questions. Why do you think the contract to pay the suits from AIG are any more valid than the contracts to pay the UAW personnel? Both places were/are asking for bailout money, but the UAW workers haven't been manipulating markets to the point the world economy is in tatters nor are they asking for million dollar or multi-million dollar bonuses.

    For some reason, you can't fathom the fact that corporate CEO's have made off with peoples' 401k money, pension money, pocketed the insurance money that was supposed to cover against defaults and then lied about it. Do you have some vested interest in AIG or short selling companies RIO? Between you and Liv, both of you sound like you think what's going on here is just lovely. I think both dem and republican politicians involved in this should fry. These politicians and their business counterparts have screwed all of us over!

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 2:20pm

46. So why did Dodd and the Demoncrats INCLUDE paying the bonuses?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 2:01pm

    I don't know the answer to that, but I bet it for you it includes:

    1. Gathering (mostly filtered) information 2. Reconciling gathered information with your own views (ignoring those pesky parts that can't be reconciled) 3. Espousing opinion shaped by big fat Radio personality.

    Good luck with that...

    Posted by A.D.H.D. at 03/18/2009 @ 2:51pm

47. . I think both dem and republican politicians involved in this should fry. These politicians and their business counterparts have screwed all of us over!

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/18/2009 @ 2:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Agreed! The reason I don't waste time talking about Republican screwups is that is ALL the leftist here focus on!

    No, not happy at all with either party really as individually many reguardless of party are complicit. No leftist here finds fault with the Demoncrats unless they murder someone, then if they did it driving drunk off a bridge its okay!

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 4:06pm

48. No leftist here finds fault with the Demoncrats unless they murder someone, then if they did it driving drunk off a bridge its okay! Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 4:06pm

    Oohhh,nice reference. 1970 called,...they want their scandal back.

    I can make made up statements too, Let's see... No Rightist here finds fault with the Republicants unless they murder hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children, engage in torture, and figuratively wipe their asses with the constitution, then if they did it after 9/11 its okay!

    That was fun AND productive. This is some serious E=mc2 shit. Using your amazing formula I can prove anything I want! Holy Shit!!! wait...don't tell the Demoncrats! If they get their hands on this kind of knowledge you know what's next...SOCIALISM

    Posted by A.D.H.D. at 03/18/2009 @ 4:45pm

49. 3. Espousing opinion shaped by big fat Radio personality.

    Good luck with that...

    Posted by A.D.H.D. at 03/18/2009 @ 2:51pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Don't listen to talk radio, did listen to the words that came from Dodds own mouth admitting he did it!

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 4:46pm

50. Here's the formula:

    F(anything bad) = democrat's fault

    F(anything good)=republican's credit

    ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo echo

    Posted by winyahn at 03/18/2009 @ 9:16pm

51. Thanks for offering printed evidence that reading and comprehension are not your strong suits! You fare strongly in myopic hatred and partison cliff diving!

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 10:54pm

52. Dodd Admits His Role in AIG Bonus Scandal

    Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:33 PM

    WASHINGTON -- For a while, the disappearance of an executive bonus restriction from last month's economic stimulus looked like sleight of hand worthy of a Las Vegas stage. No one could explain how the provision faded into thin air. On Wednesday, Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., acknowledged that his staff agreed to dilute the executive pay provision that would have applied retroactively to recipients of federal aid.

    Dodd, the chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, told CNN that the request came from OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS whom he did not identify.

    Now is that so HARD to read and comprehend even for total fools?

    Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 11:53pm

53. You fare strongly in myopic hatred and partison cliff diving!----Posted by comancheamerican at 03/18/2009 @ 10:54pm

    So I guess it IS a truism, that hypocrites never see their own hypocrisy, do they?

    Can you think of anybody who fits that statement MORE than RIO/comanche???

    Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 07:59am

54. This is how AIG got started and we are being diverted from $62 billion and into the $165 million fiasco....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWbKKydgj_o

    No one will like this...I can't stand the show its on, but the numbers are sickening about our government on both sides of the Aisle..

    we are being hoodwinked by both sides. And people are starting to become interested in the whole mess.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/19/2009 @ 08:56am

55. we are being hoodwinked by both sides.------Posted by YourJomamma at 03/19/2009 @ 08:56am

    Yet, what are the chances you're going to vote "third party" in 2010 and 2012, John?

    Honestly.

    Posted by Mask at 03/19/2009 @ 10:02am