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RedditRecently, reviewing lobbying disclosure reports, the Washington Times discovered "that 18 of the top 20 recipients of federal bailout money spent a combined $12.2 million lobbying the White House, the Treasury Department, Congress, and federal agencies during the last quarter of 2008." Citibank alone, according to the New York Times, fielded "an army of Washington lobbyists," plunking down $1.77 million in lobbying fees just in the fourth quarter of last year.
And it isn't only sinking financial institutions begging for federal dollars that have bolstered their Washington lobbying corps. So have the biggest US armaments companies--"drastically," according to reporter August Cole of the Wall Street Journal. In 2008, he found, Northrop Grumman almost doubled its lobbying budget to $20.6 million (from $10.9 million the previous year); Boeing upped its budget from $10.6 million to $16.6 million in the same period; and Lockheed-Martin, the company that received the most contracts from the Pentagon last year, hiked its lobbying efforts by a whopping 54% in 2008.
If you want to get a taste of what that means, then click here to view an ad for that company's potentially embattled boondoggle, the F-22, the most expensive jet fighter ever built. What you'll discover is not just that it will "protect" 300 million people--that's you, if you live in the USA--but that it will also "employ" 95,000 of us. In other words, the ad's threatening message implies, if the Obama administration cuts this program in bad times, it will throw another 95,000 Americans out on the street. Now that's effective lobbying for you, especially when you consider that for any imaginable war the U.S. might fight in the coming decades, the F-22, built to counter a Soviet plane that was never produced, will be thoroughly useless.
We don't usually think of the Pentagon as a jobs-and-careers scam operation, a kind of Mega-Madoff Ponzi scheme that goes BOOM!, though it is clearly designed for the well-being of defense contractors, military officers, and congressional representatives; nor do we usually consider the "defense" budget as a giant make-work jobs racket, as arms experts Bill Hartung and Christopher Preble recently suggested, but it's never too late.
In his most recent piece, "The Looming Crisis at the Pentagon," Chalmers Johnson, author of the already-classic Blowback Trilogy, including most recently Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic, makes vividly clear just how little the Pentagon is organized to consider the actual defense needs of the United States. It is, he writes, "squandering staggering levels of defense appropriations on aircraft, ships, and futuristic weapons systems that fascinate generals and admirals, and are beloved by military contractors mainly because their complexity runs up their cost to astronomical levels. That most of these will actually prove irrelevant to the world in which we live matters not a whit to their makers or purchasers. Thought of another way, the stressed out American taxpayer, already supporting two disastrous wars and the weapons systems that go with them, is also paying good money for weapons that are meant for fantasy wars, for wars that will only be fought in the battlescapes and war-gaming imaginations of Defense Department "planners."
In many ways, the Pentagon remains a deadly organization of boys with toys that now poses a distinct economic danger to the rest of us.
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Yeah, well...as you point out but dismiss, Mr Englehardt...
there's still those 95,000 jobs to consider and SOME Congressman/woman's district where the plants or subsidiary suppliers' plants are located.
They'll trim the edges, but for good or ill the "military-industrial complex" has a lot of civilian jobs attached to it and in the middle of a major recession, eliminating those jobs with little immediate way to replace them...isn't viable.
'Fraid like a lot of things, the old "slash defense spending" axiom will just have to wait until times are better.
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 09:11am
and what wonderful products these 95,000 raptor builders make!
onward ho, mankind!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:25am
and this isn't the private sector.
these are government jobs.
sure, they'll tell you ‘‘‘‘IT'S A PRIVATE COMPANY!!!!
but, who pays them?
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:26am
F-22A Raptors roaming skies over Okinawa
By Natasha Lee, Stars and Stripes Pacific edition, Tuesday, February 3, 2009
Cindy Fisher / S&S A crew chief walks around an F-22 Raptor at a squad bay on the flightline at Kadena Air Base on Thursday. The 27th Fighter Squadron, based at Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, brought 12 Raptors to Kadena for training.
Clay Lancaster / USAF An F-22A Raptor shoots out a flare during an air combat training mission at Kadena Air Base. KADENA AIR BASE, Okinawa -- Air Force F-22A Raptors are surreptitiously roaming the Pacific skies to train and provide security support to the Western Pacific.
Twelve of the stealthy fighters, assigned to the 27th Fighter Squadron, arrived at Kadena Air Base from Langley Air Force Base in Virginia last month and will be deployed in Okinawa for about three months.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:27am
Marine's rape arrest triggers Okinawa protest resolutions NAHA, Okinawa Pref. (Kyodo) The Okinawa Prefectural Assembly unanimously adopted a protest resolution Thursday targeted at the U.S. military and the United States over the recent alleged rape of a local girl by a U.S. Marine.
Okinawa Gov. Hirokazu Nakaima is surrounded by reporters after a meeting Thursday in Tokyo with Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda over the alleged rape of a schoolgirl by a U.S. Marine. KYODO PHOTO
The assembly's move follows protest resolutions at three municipalities -- the capital city of Naha, the city of Okinawa, as well as the town of Chatan. At least 15 other cities, towns and villages are planning similar protests.
The prefectural assembly also adopted a petition calling for a reduced presence of U.S. forces,apologies to the girl and measures to prevent similar incidents from recurring.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:29am
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:35am
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:36am
i'd like to see these raptors try to take on THE GIANT CLAW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOj0nXpRqX8
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:40am
"Now that's effective lobbying for you, especially when you consider that for any imaginable war the U.S. might fight in the coming decades, the F-22, built to counter a Soviet plane that was never produced, will be thoroughly useless."
thoroughly useless? well, look...equipment is designed all the time with certain missions in mind, only to see those missions disappear or change for any number of reasons. the f-22 is the next generation of american fighter and will see a lifetime of probably three decades and innumerable upgrades, mission changes, rebuilds, blah blah blah blah....
and at the moment the weapons manufacturars have a good point about the jobs. whatever our future role in the world, a top notch, technologically superior military is not the worst thing to have...and it aint cheap.
i underestand the misgivings, but we are never foing back to the good old days of being a splendidly isolated second rate power...unless things REALLY tank out. our military does not have to be HUGEMUNGOUS, but it does have to be advanced, effective, capable of long range rapid deployment as well as carrying out precise strikes anywhere on the globe.
even if we do strive for more economic autarky and retire some from such an overwhelming overseas military presense, i think we do need projects like this.
lots of people in this world DO hate us, especially after 8 years of chimpy mcwar-a-lot...but no matter how nice and cool we are, there will unfortunately be those who hate/envy us for what and who we are, for what we have. oh well - welcome to the world.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 09:43am
Sunday, February 1, 2009
WILL OBAMA REPEAT CARTER'S B-1 MISTAKE?
egad! CARTER!!!!
National Security piece by Chuck Muth
tell us, chuck
Fans of the Jurassic Park movies will recall that the velociraptors were the fastest, most lethal killing machines in all of dinosaur-land.
and bloody, too!
So I doubt it was merely a coincidence that the United States Air Force nicknamed its fifth-generation F-22 fighter jet the "Raptor."
dinosaurs of a feather.....
The Raptor is the world's most sophisticated defense weapon in the air and it's ours.
PRECIOUS!
It was conceived in the mid-eighties to replace our aging fleet of F-15s, the entire fleet of which, you may recall, was grounded over safety concerns for two months in late 2007.
so let us make more.
Nothing in the world can match the Raptor
nothing!
- although Russia and China are trying hard to catch up.
but don't worry. we've got the F-235.4, THE BATBIRD!
To give you just a bit of an idea of this plane's capabilities, in testing "a Raptor dropped a 1,000-pound JDAM (guided bomb) from 50,000 feet (passenger jets generally fly at around 35,000 feet) while cruising at Mach 1.5 (around 1,000 miles per hour), striking a moving target 24 miles away."
well, wedding parties do move.
That's roughly the distance between the Washington, DC, beltway and the Baltimore beltway.
uh oh, look who they got in there sights.
Oh, and to help the Raptor retain its stealth protection, a high-tech hydraulic system opens the bay doors, launches its missile, and closes the door in less than a second. That's the blink of an eye.
cheney's still got that beat.
So how has the Raptor done in simulated combat? Glad you asked.
tell us more!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:45am
"until times are better"? This is precisely the time to cut bad military spending. This corporate charity to military largess is a criminal waste of taxpayers' dollars. I don't care how many "jobs" are lost. No one tolerates even the slightest irresponsibility in spending in domestic programs, that otherwise actually improve our lives. Let's put these engineers and manufacturing dollars to work on developing better cars, light rail, communication, medical care, robotics and energy production. The billions and billions spent on military contracts that are unnnecessary stifle the progress on necessary contracting. Believe me that if times get rough for Raptor and F22A production, Northrop Grumman and their ilk will retool and get working so fast it will boggle the mind. It's up to us to decide what kind of world we want to live in.
Posted by Cannonball at 02/03/2009 @ 09:46am
During Northern Edge exercises in Alaska in 2006, 12 Raptors downed 108 adversaries without losing a single F-22. "In two weeks of exercises,"
sarah palin was there, militarily experiencing.
reports Wikipedia,
wiki Ώreports?
"the Raptor-led Blue Force
BLUE FORCE!
amassed 241 kills
KILLS!
against two losses in air-to-air combat, and neither Blue Force loss was an F-22."
wouldn't you rather have streets without potholes?
The plane enjoyed similar success in Red Flag exercises
RED FLAG!
in Nevada in 2007
‘VIVA!
where "only one Raptor
RAPTOR!
was adjudged lost against the virtual annihilation
ANNIHILATION!
of the defending force" of F-15s and F-16s.
hmmm, who exactly are they targeting?
This is one bad mother.
MOTHER!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:51am
RAPTOR!
MOTHER!
KILLS!
ANNNNNIIIIIHHHHHIIIIILLLLLLATTTTTTIOOOOOOONNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:53am
Let's put these engineers and manufacturing dollars to work on developing better cars, light rail, communication, medical care, robotics and energy production.---Posted by Cannonball at 02/03/2009 @ 09:46am
Fine.
Where?
How long will it take to build the facilities and manufacturing plants? Do we just pay their salaries in the meantime, while they take a 18 month-long vacation?
If so...how much money are we saving? Atleast we get a few jets if we keep them on the payroll and they actually MAKE something.
Explain what we do with those 95,000 people AND the subsidiary vendors employees in the meantime...in DETAIL...and I'll be happy to support your move.
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 09:59am
"One big new ad features a boldly soaring bald eagle and declares, "Of course America's economy can take off again. It already has a strong pair of wings."
"Dira, Snake, shadow...took the man down and let the spark of light change itself to energy as the man became one with the Earth. His flesh melted and became quiet, cool soil. His eyes glowed with the light that shines in the darkest centers of the planet and he saw the way the mother cared for her young: the worms, the roots of plants, the rivers that cascaded for miles over great cliffs in enormous caverns, the bark of trees. He was taken once more to the bosom of that great Earth mother, and understood the joy of her life.
Remember this, Dira said to the man."
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:59am
The anti-military, anti-defense crowd is alive ...Its fun for you all to rage on the military but this debate is not about jobs, profits or killing innocents, BUT ABOUT the USAF's REQUIREMENT to defend our country and our allies against a near-peer threat like Russia and China, who are hard at work building 100's of jets/yr that can defeat all of our current jets except the F-22 and future F-35. The National Military Strategy is the basis for the real F-22 combat requirement. That requirement is 381 but the AF can make do with moderate risk at around 250. 30+ classified studies validate that requirement. The jets cost $140M each, about 30% more than current 4th gen jets, but seeing as how it can defeat 6 current jets at one time its more than worth the money. The reason the AF needs more is to be in enough places to deter the next conventional war. Some of you may want WW3 to happen.. then stop buying new AF and Navy equipment and let our military capability erode and encourage the Chinese to take Taiwan and punish Japan for WW2 sins. Strong military forces and readiness are far cheaper than war, but I get the feeling you don't want to hear that right now. Its tough for some of you to admit it, but that is how we won the Cold War. The Russkies knew they'd lose and they knew they'd go broke before they could get close to our capability again.
Posted by ModerateWarrior at 02/03/2009 @ 10:01am
ultimately f-16 and f-15 will need to be replaced, and if the f-22 is performing up to the capacity described in the FROSTY...development of the f-22 could actually result in long term savings.
again, no weapon system lasts forever, especially high end items like front line fighters.
the venerable b-52 and some other weapon systems may appear to contradict the above axiom, but such systems have roles which allow them to remain effective with frequent upgrades, mission changes, and rebuilds for a lot longer.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:02am
THIS IS A TEST.
TAKE NOTES.
THIS WILL COUNT AS 3/4 OF YOUR FINAL GRADE.
HINTS:
REMEMBER, IN CHESS, KINGS CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT AND CANNOT OCCUPY ADJACENT SQUARES, ARE THEREFORE ALL-POWERFUL AND TOTALLY POWERLESS, CANNOT AFFECT EACH OTHER, PRODUCE STALEMATE.
HINDUISM IS A POLYTHEISTIC RELIGION; THE SECT OF ATMAN WORSHIPS THE DIVINE SPARK OF LIFE WITHIN MAN; IN EFFECT SAYING, "THOU ART GOD."
PROVISOS OF EQUAL TIME ARE NOT SERVED BY ONE VIEWPOINT HAVING MEDIA ACCESS TO TWO HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE IN PRIME TIME WHILE OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS ARE PROVIDED WITH A SOAPBOX ON THE CORNER.
NOT EVERYONE TELLS THE TRUTH.
OPERATIONAL NOTE: THESE SECTIONS MAY BE TAKEN OUT OF NUMERICAL SEQUENCE: REARRANGE TO SUIT YOURSELF FOR OPTIMUM CLARITY.
TURN OVER YOUR TEST PAPERS AND BEGIN.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:02am
The Russkies knew they'd lose and they knew they'd go broke before they could get close to our capability again.
Posted by ModerateWarrior at 02/03/2009
uh, have you checked america's balance sheet lately?
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:04am
RUSSKIES!
WEAPONS!
RAPTOR!
BATBIRD!
KILL!
KILL!
KILL!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:04am
SYSTEMS!
B-52!
B-52?
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=n7t7cGwN7_0&fmt=18
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:09am
Keep ofF THE Patio, keep off the path. The lawn may be green but yOU BETTER NOT BE SEen walkin' THRough the gate that leads you down, down to a pool fraught with danger is a poOL FULL OF STRAngers.
You're livinG IN Your own Private Idaho, where do I go from here to a better state than this. Well, don'T BE BLIND TO the big SURPRISE SWimming round and round like the deadly hand of a radium clock, at the BOTTOM, OF THE POOL.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:11am
TURN OVER YOUR TEST PAPERS AND BEGIN.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:02am | ignore this person | warn this person
we have a test today? huh?
can we use our notes? can i get a pass to go get my notes?
wha? huh??? anybody got a pencil?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:17am
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:18am
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 09:53am | ignore this person | warn this person
dang frosty. animated this morning.
wake and bake? i'll have some of what he's having, barista...
lol
;)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:20am
not directed at you, ibbs.
just a case of simulsubmit.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:24am
http://www.fa22-raptor.com/media/ecard08/ecard08.html
MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM THE DEATHBIRD!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:27am
RUSSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 21, 2009 Swords and Shields: Russia bets on PAK FA by Ariel Cohen, Ph.D. Moscow continues to pursue a Sukhoi-based fifth-generation fighter. After five years of effort, Russia finally found an international partner for the development project. In 2007 India entered an agreement to jointly develop a fifth-generation fighter based on the Sukhoi.
The Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA -- standing for Advanced Frontline Aviation Aircraft System -- is a stealth-enabled fighter jet designed to compete with the American Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Aircraft and the Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor. Russian air force watchers already christened it "Raptorsky" after the F-22 Raptor, with which it is supposed to compete.
The developers describe the T-50 PAK FA as having excellent maneuverability, supersonic cruising speed, long range and high protective properties. PAK FA will have a takeoff weight of 20 tons, which falls between the takeoff weight of the two American competitor airplanes, the F-35 JSF (17.2 tons) and the F-22 (24 tons).
The new fighter -- a medium version -- will have a traditional wing form, though the dramatic-looking reverse-delta wing of the Su-47 Berkut influenced the Russian fighter's designers.
The Russian fifth-generation fighter is supposed to make its first test flight this year. The testing dates have been postponed from the end of 2008, as had been previously announced by Sergei Ivanov, the Russian deputy prime minister in charge of defense production.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:29am
dang frosty. animated this morning...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:20am |
Nope...he just has nothing else to do..all day.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/03/2009 @ 10:31am
Congress Passes B-453,678 Funding Bill
Washington, Jan. 17, 2453
President Ali Lopez was said to be pleased by congress' passing of a motion to fund the next generation of all important deathbirds.
"If only we can get them to fund the F-3,455,667 PigeonHawk, Allah willing", the president commented over brainlinq.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:33am
Nope...he just has nothing else to do..all day. Posted by YourJomamma at 02/03/2009
sure thing, IMAX.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:34am
wake and bake? i'll have some of what he's having, barista... lol ;) Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:20am
navy beans and tea biscuits.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:35am
Let's Fly!
Here's a web site just for you -- full of airplanes, helicopters and space vehicles!
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/aboutus/kids/
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:36am
not directed at you, ibbs.
just a case of simulsubmit.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:24am | ignore this person | warn this person
lol...
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/03/2009 @ 10:31am | ignore this person | warn this person
lol...
-------------------------------------
a'right guys, i want a good fair scrap here...no punches below the belt, no eye gouging...no cheating...
unless it looks like yer about to lose...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 10:42am
Welcome to the F-22 Team Web site
TEAM!
As the world's only operational fifth-generation fighter,
ONLY!
the F-22 Raptor is,
RAPTOR!
and will remain, unprecedented in its total integration of stealth and advanced avionics.
STEALTH!
It quite simply is a revolutionary leap in lethality
AAANNNNIIIHHHIIIILLLLLLLLAAAAAATTTTTTTIIIIIIIIOOOOOOONNNN!!!!!
and survivability over any aircraft in production or design anywhere in the world. With its built-in reliability and maintainability, this fighter will be able to rapidly deploy anywhere on the globe.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:42am
F-22 Raptor The F-22 is being developed to counter the increasing sophistication and THREAT of HOSTILE air forces and integrated air defense systems in use around the world. This fighter will provide air DOMINANCE and a precision ground ATTACK capability for U.S. forces for the next 40 years.
Air and ground THREATS that the F-15 can no longer counter will be DEFEATED by the LETHAL and survivable F-22, with its balance of increased SPEED and range, enhanced OFFENSIVE and defensive AVIONICS and low observability or STEALTH. The F-22's design also emphasizes reliability and maintainability of systems.
The F-22 provides a FIRST-LOOK, FIRST-SHOT, FIRST-KILL capability through the use of STEALTH, advanced sensors and a LETHAL mix of advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground WEAPONS. The F-22 also requires shorter takeoff and landing distances as compared to current frontline fighters. F-22 pilots will be able to engage the enemy over its own territory and support long-range air-to-ground assets. The F-22 also brings its own precision ground ATTACK capability to the BATTLEFIELD.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:43am
Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.
So shall it be!
Amen.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:43am
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:43am
THIS IS ONE BAD MOTHER!!!!!!
BATBIRD!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:45am
Okay, FROSTY...rapidly approaching "excessive spamming the thread" now.
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 10:55am
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009
Soooooo....
are you saying you DON'T like the F-22?
Posted by Benchrest at 02/03/2009 @ 11:13am
Hey look! There's an advertisement on the site to sign a petition to SAVE the F-22.
Wow. They work fast.
Wicked plane.
Posted by Benchrest at 02/03/2009 @ 11:15am
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 11:23am
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:43am | ignore this person | warn this person
Ever see an F-16 do a hot takeoff - full afterburners on?
Awesome.........a trajectory closer to a rocket than airplane.
Didn't help much for 9/11 though did it.
The kids will get a kick out of it at the airshows - and of course Lockheed Martin will profit handsomely on overseas sales after taxpayers have paid for its development costs.
300 Million fleeced and 95,000 protected and enriched is more like it.
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 11:29am
bombmaker
recession proof
the more scared the sheep get, the more they will pony up to pump up the pecs.
grrr
no funding for SCHIPS, those kids will never learn!! grrr.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:32am
Hey, ONE, good catch.
After the US taxpayer has funded the R&D, Lockheed can sell to Haus Saud, Pakistan, Iraq and Uzbekistan.
I cannot imagine a scenario in which that would come back to haunt us.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:35am
RAPTOR!
SPAM!
JJJEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 11:35am
spam, spam, spam, beans and spam.
Frosty in a nutshell today.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:36am
Or
Frosty IS a nutshell today
That's why we love him.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:37am
So, who thinks the marketing person that placed an ad FOR the F-22 on The Nation website deserves a promotion?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:40am
I cannot imagine a scenario in which that would come back to haunt us.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:35am | ignore this person | warn this person
Buyer's lining up as we speak. What a bunch of hogwash. Next we are going to be getting astroturfing ads from Lockheed on how 9 out 10 voters dearly want the F22.
'Pentagon's plan to buy F-22s may signal export'
Dec. 15, 2008 Yaakov Katz , THE JERUSALEM POST The Israel Air Force is hopeful that a new Pentagon plan to buy 60 F-22 stealth fighter jets will include a push to end a congressional ban on exporting the stealth aircraft, senior defense officials have told The Jerusalem Post.
"If the F-22 is made available, we will bring it here as soon as possible, no matter what the price is," a top IAF officer said last week. "To have strong deterrence and to win a conflict, we need to have the best aircraft in existence."
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 11:40am
best bet is to sell high tech weapons systems to Jerusalem, Baghdad, Damascus, Rhyad, Islamabad...
and hope for the situation to work itself out peacfully.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:44am
and hope for the situation to work itself out peacfully.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:44am | ignore this person | warn this person
Funny how "deterrance" is profitable too! Best defense is a strong offense................
'OCCUPIED JERUSALEM: Israel vowed a "disproportionate" attack against the Gaza Strip on Sunday, two weeks after the end of a war in the territory that elicited allegations of war crimes by the Zionist state. "We've said that if there is rocket fire against the south of the country, there will be a severe and disproportionate Israeli response," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said at the weekly cabinet meeting...'
The Daily Star - 02/02/09 - AFP Excerpt
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 11:57am
This hysteria over the F-22 has got to stop. We all know the most formidable & fearsome weapon on the planet is... THE BOXCUTTER!
Posted by Sorelish at 02/03/2009 @ 12:17pm
"The anti-military, anti-defense crowd is alive....."
so, anyone who suggests we trim our defense budget, which stands at 48% of the entire globe's defense budget combined, so that we can fund vital domestic programs and projects, is "anti-military"?
the mere hint of a suggestion that we trim our defense budget (500/billion annual) and the entire right wing noise machine goes into panic. fox news has even peddling that obama is going to cut defense spending, even though he increased it by 40 billion for 2009. robert kagan, in the WaPo, called this a "cut" in his op-ed today. up is down. left is right.
the vast majority of americans want the government to cut defense spending and increase spending on domestic programs and projects. but the beltway, and the right wing noise machine, in the interests of "bi-partisanship" are more interested in themselves than in their fellow countrymen and women.
these people, my friends, are the ultimate traitors to our country, and they are supreme cowards.
Posted by darladoon at 02/03/2009 @ 12:19pm
This hysteria over the F-22 has got to stop. We all know the most formidable & fearsome weapon on the planet is... THE BOXCUTTER!
Posted by Sorelish at 02/03/2009 @ 12:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Bullseye!
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 12:23pm
So, who thinks the marketing person that placed an ad FOR the F-22 on The Nation website deserves a promotion?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 11:40am
Ya know, THAT is a damn good question.
Not exactly a brilliant move from a common sense point of view. Makes one wonder what else they lack.
Posted by Benchrest at 02/03/2009 @ 12:30pm
The F-22 provides a FIRST-LOOK, FIRST-SHOT, FIRST-KILL capability through the use of STEALTH, advanced sensors and a LETHAL mix of advanced air-to-air and air-to-ground WEAPONS. The F-22 also requires shorter takeoff and landing distances as compared to current frontline fighters. F-22 pilots will be able to engage the enemy over its own territory and support long-range air-to-ground assets. The F-22 also brings its own precision ground ATTACK capability to the BATTLEFIELD.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:43am
Mmmmm. Sounds yummy.
Posted by k330k at 02/03/2009 @ 1:01pm
We all know the most formidable & fearsome weapon on the planet is... THE BOXCUTTER!
Posted by Sorelish at 02/03/2009 @ 12:17pm
LOL! Hilarious!
Posted by k330k at 02/03/2009 @ 1:03pm
Posted by darladoon at 02/03/2009 @ 12:19pm
Darla, I'm fine with cutting the defense budget and "putting those engineers and technicians to work building solar-powered cars" or whatever.
But show me some DETAILS on how you plan on doing that.
Don't tell me "Cut the F-22 entirely" and "Okay, yeah, 95,000 (or more with subsidiary companies) will lose their jobs but SOMEDAY they'll be making windmill turbines."
Tell me how we cut the F-22 NOW ...AND put those 95K folks to work NOW in SPECIFICS....and I'll be the first to say "Adios, Raptor!"
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 1:24pm
i bet you could get those 95,000 to start checking congressional taxes.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 1:31pm
Thanks One Vote & k33ok
The 'ol scattergun (figurative, US govt) approach sometimes yields results.
Posted by Sorelish at 02/03/2009 @ 1:53pm
i bet you could get those 95,000 to start checking congressional taxes.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 1:31pm |
"We think people should not pay income taxes, they are unconstitutional...we can't support your nomination because you did not pay your income tax."
"We need to fight the collectivist mentallity of the left...did you see how amazing the collective Chinese were at the Olympic ceremonies...if only Americans were that tight! We could learn a lot from those Chinese."
up =left, down = bluish/gray/mauve
Family Values are off limits too, now.
Or are they back on again?
Cons, what is the New Word on the street about Family Values..on or off? I want to make sure I can at least see the goalposts, you move them around so much...
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:13pm
Tell me how we cut the F-22 NOW ...AND put those 95K folks to work NOW in SPECIFICS....and I'll be the first to say "Adios, Raptor!"
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 1:24pm
One state:
2000 filling pot holes
2000 building and installing wind turbines.
500 researching/designing mass transit systems, like a bullet train.
2000 rebuilding bridges, roads, ports, marinas, dredging the Saginaw River
500 new teachers in the sciences, or teaching teachers to teach science and technology
100 building new structures in the waterways to keep invasives in the Mississppi from getting into the great lakes and causing billions in damage to the private fishing industry
Off the top of my head.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:19pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:19pm
Okay, CRAB...even if they get the SAME PAY...
tell me how many avionics technicians are going to be just THRILLED to be outside in August in Kansas and Arizona filling pot holes and repairing bridges?
And are going to want to reward the political party that put them out on the roads with the orange vests?
Again, it's EASY to say "Gut defense spending and we'll worry about what to do with the defense industry WORKERS later"...if you're not a defense industry worker or one of the guys they do or do NOT vote for.
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 2:42pm
Are these 95 k working right now?
My understanding is that it would CREATE 95k new jobs.
Also, yes, many techs would like to build turbines for wind generation rather than turbines for bomb throwing planes.
Heavy equipment operators, such as would build a new production facility, don't care which earth they move.
Engineers, some, can teach instead of design.
other engineers can move from aero to civil. We would also need to have many electrical engineers, naval architects ect.
How many car technicians are happy to be out filling burger and fry orders under the globalization frenzy we have now? Moving people to new jobs does not seem to worry the people that make these decisions.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:56pm
Or, we could do what we did when we closed military bases in the 80's and 90's...
build prisons, this time to hold "the most dangerous" furners instead of crack smokin welfare queens.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:59pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 2:56pm
"it will throw another 95,000 Americans out on the street"---Tom Engelhardt
Seems that's "future tense", CRAB...i.e. they're working NOW and would lose their jobs if the F-22 program is killed.
BTW, re-read the article...Mr Engelhardt doesn't DENY that those 95,000 will lose their jobs, just hates that it's "used" by the defense contractor.
Again, it's back to the old "I want defense cut...even if more is being spent on domestic programs anyway...and I don't give a rat's ass about the defense WORKERS, I just will pat myself on the back and THINK that I'm hurting the CEO of Grumman or GM's Tank Division!" paradigm of liberal thinking.
Oh, occasionally "They'll find new jobs in the 'green' industries that will be created in 4-5 years...they'll be fine!"
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 3:51pm
is FROSTY still here?
the more i think about this the less it bothers me. if the planes are as good as FROSTY thinks they are, they could last, with upgrades, maybe 50 years...
with modifications it could be made for many roles.
its needed, its long term good, and it DOES create jobs.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 4:47pm
the more i think about this the less it bothers me. if the planes are as good as FROSTY thinks they are, they could last, with upgrades, maybe 50 years...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/03/2009 @ 4:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
These things have been kicking around for more than a decade.......you kidding me?
F-22 Testing Behind; GAO Suggests Funding Delay March 11, 1998 in print edition D-3
Flight tests of Lockheed Martin Corp.'s F-22 stealth fighter are falling far enough behind schedule that Congress should examine whether to slow approval of production money for the most expensive U.S. weapons program, the General Accounting Office said Tuesday.
Technical and manufacturing problems during development are reducing the number of flight test hours for what the Defense Department sees as its top radar-evading, 21st-century fighter. The delay comes as Congress considers the first major chunk of production money$800 million in the proposed budget for the fiscal year starting Oct. 1.
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 5:29pm
F-22 design problems force expensive fixes
By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer Posted : Wednesday Nov 14, 2007 9:21:20 EST AirForceTimes.Com
....with a price tag of $130 million per plane -- $330 million if you take into account research and development costs -- critics wonder why millions more will have to be spent to fix corrosion problems and design flaws on some of the 104 stealth fighters delivered so far by the plane's manufacturer, Lockheed Martin...................
Posted by OneVote at 02/03/2009 @ 7:18pm
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of...
Then I dropped a 1000 pound bomb on a wedding party and got my ass out of there. Man have I ever gotta pee...
Posted by ficheye at 02/03/2009 @ 8:49pm
RAPTOR!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/03/2009 @ 10:08pm
Re: "We don't usually think of the Pentagon as a jobs-and-careers scam operation..." I do.
Posted by username666 at 02/03/2009 @ 11:42pm
Tom Engelhardt writes:
>> the stressed out American taxpayer, already supporting two disastrous wars <<
Even if everything else in this column were true and reasonable, which is far from the case, then these droppings about "two disastrous wars" would suffice to prove, Engelhardt a fool and his judgment perverse.
Yes, Iraq has been disasterous - for Saddam, the Baath, islamists, Iran, al Qaeda and Engelhardt's crowd. They are right to weep for all their hopes have been confounded. All their predictions proved false: that the path to Baghdad would fill 20,000 American body bags, the oil fields would go up in flame, the US and world economies would come to a halt, the stock market would collapse, the Arab street would pull down the US friendly regimes in the region, Saddam would prove the US military hollow, its soldiers and equipment could no succeed against the Insurgents, al Qaeda would grow in power, the Iraq govt would dwindle into a helpless sham, Iran would emerge in control of Iraq, that war would prove the worst foreign policy disaster in US history.
In reality, at the cost of 4, 200 lives lost in 5 years of fighting, less than the homicides in NYC streets during just 2 years of David Dinkins' administration, and at the cost 1% of GDP, Korea cost 14%, VN 9%, WWII in some years 38.7% of GDP, we are in the process of achieving our most optimistic war goals. Not only has the fascist Baath, which unquestionably possessed and used WMD and aspired to nuclear weapons, been replaced by a US friendly regime, it is a democratic govt, the first one in the Arab world. Its politicians actually see their job as serving the people rather than having the people serve them.
Such an outcome is only disastrous for those who wanted the US to fail.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 12:24am
.....USAF's REQUIREMENT to defend our country and our allies against a near-peer threat like Russia and China, who are hard at work building 100's of jets/yr that can defeat all of our current jets except the F-22 and future F-35......
Posted by ModerateWarrior
The Chinese?.....All they have to do is cancel our f*cking credit card.
Posted by koroviev at 02/04/2009 @ 01:34am
Such an outcome is only disastrous for those who wanted the US to fail. Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 12:24am
Even though I wish we hadn't gone there in the first place, I certainly don't want us to leave in ignominious disgrace, either.
Now Hugo, could you please explain to me how the Ba'ath are fascist? I'm truly not saying this to rile you, but I thought fascist regimes were corporatists, while the Ba'ath party ( also called the Arab Socialist party) is a combination of socialism, Pan arabism, and nationalism combined. And secular to boot, which flies in the face of the Islamists.
And the middle east historian, Husayn Al-Kurdi, says "...the question of what the Ba'ath Party actually is has been completely distorted. The Ba'ath Party comes out as some kind of fascist party. However, if you study it, it is an anti-fascist party and explicitly so. But, I've noticed they've expunged all the anti-fascist part of the little collections that they include in their anthologies. I notice that, increasingly so, they're calling it a fascist party, while it's definitely an anti-fascist party."
Even he seems a little confused. A lot of historians use fascism as a catch all, when it may be more precise to call it a 'totalitarian regime'. That's just my opinion, of course. I realize that they have been minimized at this point, but I'm always seeking justification for the use of the term' fascist'.
Posted by ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 02:35am
don't forget the cia wiggled the ba'athists into power.
and that nasty shah, too.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/04/2009 @ 02:41am
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/04/2009 @ 02:41am
RAPTOR!!!
Posted by ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 03:31am
ficheye at 02/04/2009 asked:
>> explain to me how the Ba'ath are fascist? ... I thought fascist regimes were corporatists, while the Ba'ath party (also called the Arab Socialist party) is a combination of socialism, Pan arabism, and nationalism combined. And secular to boot, which flies in the face of the Islamists. <<
Yes, the Baath was a secular, military dictatorship like the Nazis. While Hitler's party braided together, nationalism, socialism and Aryan racism, Saddam's (and Assad's Baath in Syria) combined nationalist, socialist and panArab allegiances.
Both in Syria and Iraqi you had:
1. A military dictatorships. Saddam and his ministers usually wore uniforma; so too Hafez al Assad, until he became old and sick. Bashar's ministers remain in uniform.
2. Both the Iraqi and Syrian parties stress nationalism. That was and is how Iraq's Shia distinguish themselves from the Iranians.
3. The Baath of both countries were leftists. The Soviet Union consider them brother socialists and allies.
4. Both were pan Arabist, a racist concept. It requires Arab blood for inclusion.
Thus you have the exact counterparts to Hitler's National Socialism. The Third Reich's was a secular, military dictatorship based on socialism and nationalism and united by race. The National Socialist parties extended over borders, across Europe. Which was why half a million non German Europeans volunteered for the Waffen SS. Their nationalism was ultimately their pride in their blood lines. So too the Baath. Its ideal was a disciplined, secular, nationalist, socialist system extending across all Arab lands. (In practice the Syrian and Iraqi Baath didn't get along.)
The corporate state idea was Mussolini's concoction and secondary.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 06:10am
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 12:24am
I guess if one does not count the 700,000 dead, the 2,000,000 displaced or the ethnically cleansed neighborhoods or the cost of rebuilding Falluja and Mosul (which has not even really begun)..
or the billions in cash that has gone missing, or the 4200 dead Americans, or the 50,000 wounded Americans (ohm right, American soldiers are not Americans )
then yes, not a disaster.
Will you join us in celebrating the liberal secularists win in Iraq?
where do you get your nationalism? Blood lines or elsewhere?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/04/2009 @ 07:40am
Oh, and we also have to look the other way from the fact that we are 6 years into the war, and Americans are still being killed, politicians in the country of choice are being killed,
but, other than that, raging success.
When you goin, Hugo?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/04/2009 @ 08:07am
The Third Reich's was a secular, military dictatorship
no it wasn't. Hugo just makes this shit up. he is clueless. in germany it was the Nazi party that ran the gov't. it was never a military dictatorship. Hitler was NOT a military dictator, his highest rank was corporal, in WW1.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/04/2009 @ 10:10am
where do you [huggo] get your nationalism?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/04/2009 @ 07:40am
RAPTOR!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/04/2009 @ 10:54am
Then I dropped a 1000 pound bomb on a wedding party and got my ass out of there. Man have I ever gotta pee...
Posted by ficheye at 02/03/2009 @ 8:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person
and.....
"Put out my hand, and touched the face of God!"
Posted by OneVote at 02/04/2009 @ 10:57am
ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 02:35am wrote:
>>I'm truly not saying this to rile you, but ... middle east historian, Husayn Al-Kurdi, says "...the question of what the Ba'ath Party actually is has been completely distorted. The Ba'ath Party comes out as some kind of fascist party. However, if you study it, it is an anti-fascist party and explicitly so. <<
Explain how, Husayn Al Kurdi is a trained and legitimate historian? By what criteria is he anything but an apologist for the Baath and Saddam, and a leftist polemicist?
Moreover, show me where Al Kurdi has shows the Baath to be an anti-fascist party!
Was it anti-fascist in its humanist and democratic values, its democratic structure, its free press, its free elections, its toleration of a diversity of opinion and criticism of the govt? What aspect of the Baath was not fascist? Its police methods? Its murder of political opponents? Saddam's cult of personality? Its use of terror to control the population, its ambitions and military aggression?
Where do you get the gall to hold Husayn Al Kurdi up as a legitimate claim that the Baath was not fascist but anti-fascist? Do you have a standards of honesty, do you believe in consistent, logical thinking?
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 5:21pm
do you believe in consistent, logical thinking? Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 5:21pm
Hugo, Hugo... I found a source on the internet. I was asking YOU for information, not attacking you in any way. I wasn't saying you were wrong, I wasn't giving you a hard time. I was giving you an opportunity to dispense some information. Which you did, at first. I didn't even claim that this guy was legitimate or otherwise.
Yet you attack me after doing enough research to discredit the source, which, after all, was just an example. I even said that HE seemed to be confused about it, but I guess you didn't read that part. So it wasn't an opinion, it was an effort to show that many are confused about the definition of 'fascism'. And how is Husayn an apologist for Saddam unless he supports fascism? I didn't quite get that from the article. When you use words like 'polemicist' it makes one pause and wonder just what your personal library is like.
So what I did was actually read your post and respond to it with a question. If you had actually read my post you wouldn't have written such an angry response.
So, is it back to making fun of you, or will there be a cessation of hostilities? Either way is fine with me. I'm not telling you what to do, but think about your response before just firing off a barrage of information which is mostly just your opinion. Listen to a little Piazzola, maybe Milonga Del Angel. I love tango music, and this piece is especially nice, as you may already know.
Posted by ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 8:23pm
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God!" Posted by OneVote at 02/04/2009 @ 10:57am
God is my co-pilot. But our plane crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
Posted by ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 8:28pm
Where do you get the gall to hold Husayn Al Kurdi up as a legitimate claim that the Baath was not fascist but anti-fascist? Do you have a standards of honesty, do you believe in consistent, logical thinking?
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/04/2009 @ 5:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Actually, the history of the Baath Party is more complicated than your simplistic and self-serving characterization.
Give a read to:
http://leninology.blogspot.com/2006/06/ iraq-nationalism-communism-and.html
BTW - Hussein's hero and role model was Stalin, nor Hitler. Is this more Zionist tripe from you?
Posted by OneVote at 02/04/2009 @ 8:55pm
God is my co-pilot. But our plane crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
Posted by ficheye at 02/04/2009 @ 8:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person
They should make a movie!
Posted by OneVote at 02/04/2009 @ 8:58pm
OneVote at 8:55pm says:
>> BTW - Hussein's hero and role model was Stalin, nor Hitler. Is this more Zionist tripe from you? <<
I claimed the Baath was a fascist party, not that Hitler was Saddam's role model. But as a matter of fact, however well Saddam thought of Stalin, he learned to admire Hitler in his uncle's household. That uncle raised him, and was a follower of Rashid Ali, the Iraqi prime minister who in 1941 turned against Britain, allied with Hitler, besieged an RAF base, encouraged a murderous pogrom against the Jews of Baghdad, and then, along with the Palestinian Mufti Husseini, fled to Berlin where both spent the rest of WWII.
Your way of dealing with that, as with most disagreeable facts, is to call it, "Zionist tripe".
Yes, Saddam was influenced by both Hitler and Stalin. Both were strong men, military dictators, tyrants. Both cultivated a cult of personality. Both ruled by fear and terror. Both were anti-Semites. Both killed millions in prison camps. Both declared themselves socialists and celebrated May Day. At one point they allied and jointly attacked Poland. While the Luftwaffe blitzed London, Russia sent Germany daily train loads of strategic metals and petroleum. Each of these brutal ideologues understood the other. They were both made of the same stuff.
Incidentally, fascism was concocted by Mussolini who began as a communist. His father was a life long communist. Benito became editor of the Italian party's newspaper, Avanti. He came to lead the faction of Italy's socialists, supported by Lenin. When, during WWI, Mussolini's Mussolini's nationalism inspired him to break with the Italian internationalists and to form his new fascist party, socialism remained the base of that new brew. And so too for Hitler's National Socialists.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 05:31am
ficheye at 8:23pm wrote:
>>Hugo, Hugo... I found a source on the internet. I was asking . . . I didn't even claim that this guy was legitimate or otherwise. <<
If you can't "claim that this guy is legitimate" why do you use him in support of your argument, and by what right can you ask me to respond to such a lunatic?
Everyone knows that the Net is a cesspool of ridiculous claims. There are even jerks right on these boards insisting, Hitler was not a military dictator. It is insulting to fish one of these guys up and ask me to deal with it.
Moreover, I didn't need to research an Al-Kurdi to know that the Baath was not anti-fascist. Nor did you. It just needs a modicum of common sense.
As to making fun of me, I was not aware that you were. Unless your idea of humor is asking me to respond to inanities. Your crayon isn't sharp enough for jokes.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 05:42am
Hugo... I wasn't making an argument.
I was asking if you could make it clearer just what you thought fascism was.
Just get a grip and realize that I was casually asking you for more information on the subject, not arguing.
I wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
Deal with it.
I'm not sure how you can interpret this exchange as an argument. If you insist, I will sharpen my crayon, el gaucho.
Fascism is a political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism. Y'think?
Posted by ficheye at 02/05/2009 @ 06:18am
Hugo, Hitler was not a military dictator and the Nazi regime was not a military dictatorship. Hitler was appointed chancellor in a legitimate process.
oh one more thing, Stalin was not a military dictator either. both nations were ruled by the party.
you have a few facts, which you proceed to distort over and over again to peddle your nasty world view.
Posted by emile duBois at 02/05/2009 @ 09:28am
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 05:31am | ignore this person | warn this person
Whats the verdict on Bashar al-Assad? Is he a fascist too? Anti-Semite (Israel), ipso facto fascist?
Many of us are aware of the pro-Zionist press that attempts to pigeon hole leaders into the "fascist" category in order to elicit support and sympathy based on Hitler analogies.
Your response mentions anti-semitism and atrocity against Jews several times in what should be a neutral discussion of ideology. By doing so, you have "flushed" yourself out, and have shown your own ideological bias. In standard definitions of fascism or totalitariansim, I don't find that anti-semitism is on the checklist of definitional qualities and propensities.
We can agree that Hussein, Hitler and Stalin were horrific tyrants.
Posted by OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 10:33am
140 million seems like a completely reasonable price tag for the world's most advanced and lethal flying weapons platform.
And I'm sure it works great house-to-house.
Posted by drhammer at 02/05/2009 @ 10:47am
And I'm sure it works great house-to-house.
Posted by drhammer at 02/05/2009 @ 10:47am | ignore this person | warn this person
And as Bob Gates has said....geezzz...the F22 hasn't even been used once in GWOT...why the hell do we need more of them?
No imagination from our SOD huh....
Posted by OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 12:12pm
We the people have decided long ago that it's ok to have a military-industrial complex that answers to no one. Major news shows have mentioned that there has been no reliable budget accounting since WWII.
For those bible thumpers out there,.. check the new testament as to the instructions regarding fear based choices. Seems we're easily conned when driven by fear or greed. The same thing really, and it disrespects the created and the creator at a cost easily seen the last several decades.
And, the meter is still running.
Posted by stimularius at 02/05/2009 @ 2:13pm
OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 10:33am says:
>> We can agree that Hussein, Hitler and Stalin were horrific tyrants.<<
Thanks a lot. But broad minded, and the truth lover that you are,you feel the need to draw the line somewhere.
>> Bashar al-Assad? Is he a fascist too? Anti-Semite (Israel), ipso facto fascist? Many of us are aware of the pro-Zionist press that attempts to pigeon hole leaders into the "fascist" category in order to elicit support and sympathy based on Hitler analogies.<<
You spring to the defense of Syria's Baathist police state which answers political opponents like Rafik Hariri with 100 kilo of dynamite under their cars, or cannonades their cities to rubble, as at Hama, where 15,000 died. Bashar a tyrant, a murderer, a fascist, an anti-Semite? All Jew propaganda, eh?
Bashar famously reminded, Pope John Paul II, on meeting him in Damascus, that the Jews killed Jesus. Bashar's "experts" autopsy Zionism as based on the Jewish faith, which is not Abraham's and Moses' religion, but a fabrication created during the Babylonian captivity, where, the "racist notion" of the "Chosen People" originated. That is not anti-Semitic? Bashar says it is not, because he is more of a Semite than the Jews.
Of course the Syrian Baath regime is fascist and anti-Sermitic, and so is its leader, Bashar, and so habibi, are you.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 4:04pm
ficheye at 06:18am said:
>> Fascism is a political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism. Y'think? <<
Why dontcha ream that mythic core up Emile who cogitates, that as a corporal, Hitler's rank was too low to qualify him as a military dictator, and that Marshal Stalin ruled as an elected democrat.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 4:09pm
" Tell me how we cut the F-22 NOW ...AND put those 95K folks to work NOW in SPECIFICS....and I'll be the first to say "Adios, Raptor!" " Doing something abysmally stupid in a vertically calcified economy is not a reason to CONTINUE TO DO A STUPID THING IN A CALCIFIED ECONOMY. Especially with the problems we have now. Climate change, starving people. Having jobs that don't benefit people at both ends being preserved over jobs that do, IS STUPID.
Posted by brantl at 02/05/2009 @ 4:29pm
I wonder if Hugo looks like Gomez Addams?
A pinstriped suit, a cigar in a holder, typing like mad.
I've been doing some in depth research on the fascism definition, and what becomes clear is that the Bush Administration managed to fit the overall profile so closely that it's scary.
Of course, others have made this connection as well. The Encyclopedia of Marxism has this very telling 9 point description of the conditions that would merit a designation of fascism.
Bush would even smirk and stick out his lip much like Mr. Mussolini did. It's doubtful, however, that Benito ever shared George's fondness for pretzels.
I'm feeling bad for Hugo, wasting all that energy typing when I was just asking a question. Possibly just having a senior moment. But he also seems to be as confused as anybody else on the true definition of 'fascism'. In the final analysis a lot of people just use the term as a pejorative to describe people or situations that seem to be overly and overtly authoritarian.
Posted by ficheye at 02/05/2009 @ 4:31pm
ficheye at 4:31pm wrote:
>> I've been doing some in depth research on the fascism definition, and what becomes clear is that the Bush Administration managed to fit the overall profile so closely that it's scary. <<
Tell me about the in-depth research, that original vilification required.
At least you've abandoned your intellectual pretensions, your, just curious pose, and are here in all your naked, corkscrewed, off-the-wall dishonesty. No, you are not trying to rile me, that is the real you.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 5:55pm
No, you are not trying to rile me, that is the real you. Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/05/2009 @ 5:55pm
Hugo, it's clear that you are in need of counseling.
My first question was entirely innocent, but you keep re-interpreting it as malicious. You are making a cartoon of yourself. I feel a new story coming on!
I can see by the words you use, "your just curious pose", that you think I was trying to entrap you or something. No, it was just a question, like sometimes 'a cigar is just a cigar'.
If you would just put me on ignore I would be honored. It will be, in the end, a lot better for your blood pressure. Sometimes I think that you can write in English very well, but you misinterpret the context of someone's writing when you read it. Meaning you just don't understand, so you see almost everything as an attack.
Posted by ficheye at 02/05/2009 @ 6:23pm
ficheye at 02/05/2009 @ 6:23pm
>>If you would just put me on ignore I would be honored.<<
I ignore most people easily enough by skipping their posts, I don't require software for that.
Your problem is, you have yourself on ignore. You are unaware of what you write.
You last said that the Bush administration, an elected govt which you and your friends voted against and openly railed against for 8 years, was fascists. But you claim to have been "honestly" in doubt whether Saddam's Baath, one of the modern history's most monstrous regimes, that murdered its domestic opponents by the thousands both openly with machine gun fire from tanks, and poison gas as at Halabja, and quietly behind the walls of Abu Ghraib, was fascist.
Even his senior officers were periodically purged on the vaguest of suspicions. Not just opponents, their families were killed, "pour encourager les autres". But just because it was a police state and ruled by terror, and promoted Iraqi nationalism and professed socialism and valued all of Arab blood, was that fascist, you wondered. About Bush's White House you knew, but Saddam's regime, there you were asking sincerely, you straight shooter.
You are right to play ignorant about the Baath and Saddam. You went to bat for both against the vicious Bush. You moral paragon.You were opposing a fascist US bullying a gutsy leftist bastion with the best chance of destroying the fascist Zionists. You nobleman.
You knew exactly what Saddam was, but didn't care. You supported him, you wanted him to remain in power and for the US invasion to fail, you were a Baath collaborator. You didn't mind the mayhem wrecked by Islamists or Baathist so long as it was anti-Israel, anti-US mayhem. Those are the real fascists in your book.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 02/06/2009 @ 06:55am
Hugo,
There is medication that will address your dementia. I would stay away from alcohol though.
I did say that the Bush administration seemed to fit the profile of fascism. But I never said that I doubted that the Ba'ath were fascist. I was remarking on how unclear the general definition of 'fascism' was. I was interested in a clearer definition of fascism. The Ba'ath seem to fit some of the conditions, but not all. But you don't read what's written.
And you go from there to embark on your usual pseudo-political tirade against the enemy. They are out there, Hugo, and they're going to get you.
You sound like some third world general explaining why a military coup is justified. You also seem to be a fan of 'correct thinking', one of the 'thought police'. Everyone who doesn't think like 'ewe' is a danger to society.
If you aren't able to make sense of what I write, especially these last posts, which are merely questions, then I fear your sanity is in doubt. Or maybe you are just el orto. Now I have to start having fun.
Posted by ficheye at 02/06/2009 @ 3:23pm