McCain's Hail Mary Pass

The news was so stunning I refused to believe it until I saw John McCain on the TV screen announcing his pick for Vice President. There's no need to disparage Sarah Palin. She's seems like a smart, serious person. But what the choice reveals about McCain is devastating with a capital D for Desperation.

Within forty-eight hours, all America will be talking about her. What people will say is, "You mean, if John McCain croaks, she becomes our president?" Gasp, yes. That is what McCain has decided. So much for "experience" and wise judgment as a campaign issue.

The Senator was widely thought to be on the fifty-yard line, nose to nose with Barack Obama. But this selection reveals the Republican campaign strategists knew better. Picking the obscure and under-experienced governor from Alaska for veep means McCain and his people recognize they are in a very weak position for the fall campaign. So weak they decided to throw a forty-year Hail Mary pass and hope audaciously for a lucky catch.

It won't succeed. In fact, I expect this gambit is going to drive far more voters to Obama's column than it does for McCain.

Choosing Palin kills the "experience" argument. Republicans must have recognized from their own market research that it wasn't working for them. For two months or more, McCain and his handlers have smeared and slandered Obama, mocked his star quality talents, belittled his lack of tenure in Washington back rooms and accused him of unpatriotic egotism. Clearly, their internal polling told them this line of character attack wasn't grabbing the public. Playing the wise old man was not going to be enough to overcome McCain's other significant handicaps, his somewhat doddering style and memory lapses, his deadly embrace of right-wing cant and G.W. Bush.

So, what the hell, let's take a wild shot and see what happens. The other veep possibilities are dull guys in good suits. Let's go with the young gal from Alaska. She's not only a woman--she's a mother! You want history-making? We Republicans can do history-making.

Their internal logic was obvious, it was also pathetic. Putting a woman on the ticket is supposed to draw away those discontented Clinton voters in the Democratic party. Not going to happen, I think. First, that group has dwindled considerably in the last few days--thanks to Hillary Clinton's straight-shooting endorsement of Obama and especially to Bill Clinton's brilliant blessing. The former President went the full mile in defending Obama as ready to be President by reminding everyone that he too had been dogged for a youthful lack of experience. Any remaining bitterness among Clinton voters will not be salved by supporting a hardcore right-winger on feminist issues.

The early returns I am hearing from people suggest that McCain's gambit may prove to be a home run (mixing my sports metaphors) for Obama. One young friend first heard the news from his mother who called to say, okay, she was switching to Obama. For months, she had rooted for Hillary and insisted Obama was too wet behind the ears. "You can stop arguing with your mother," she said.

Palin's previous political experience was as mayor in a town of 6,000. Did they mention this to John McCain? Or did he perhaps forget? Senator McCain says he has seasoned judgment, but he may have been over-cooked.

Comments (147)

1. "Choosing Palin kills the "experience" argument."

   Hmmm? sounds familiar....heheh

   Aside from the giddiness of the Right at getting a beauty queen Phyllis Schafly, which may be a good TACTICAL move on the heels of Obama's speech...

   it's a BAD strategic move.

   1. The experience thing is dead.

   2. Palin under investigation by a bipartisan group. It's just HOPED that she is innocent and has NO ties to Ted Stevens either.

   3. The Veep debate against Biden. Repubs will play down expectations...and better play them WAY down.

   4. Her fundy/evangey take on creationism in schools.

   5. The inevitable photos of the swimsuit competition from the 1984 Miss Alaska pageant and the caption "Ready To Lead?" at Huffington Post.

   6. A chance most Americans see a DESPERATE and BLATENT move, and not a "wise experienced judgement on picking a potential Presidential replacement"

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:18pm

2. Watch as Republicans turn circles trying to defend this as a great choice. This is hilarious. I love it.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:24pm

3. Yup ... pandering to women and the Fundyvangenut crowd

   Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 3:29pm

4. http://tinyurl.com/69uo9x

   Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 3:30pm

5. Selecting Palin is an effort to "appease the base, while reaching out to women who would vote for a vagina rather than vote for their best economic and social interests".

   Palin is an insulting pick for women who value choice, healthcare, and equal pay for equal work!

   Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 3:36pm

6. GOP?

   RIP.

   ET DEO GRATIAS.

   "The Senator was widely thought to be on the fifty-yard line, nose to nose with Barack Obama."

   Only if you trusted the MSM's misuse of national ("popular vote") polls, and ignored or couldn't find the state by state polls that have consistently put Obama ahead by a minimum of 70 electoral college votes.

   The only suspense remains the length & strength of his coattails ... can he pull in a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate? Can Obama bring in a House approaching 60% Dems?

   That's the only remaining Q. The rest is MSM make-believe to make the rout look like a horse race, to boost ratings.

   Posted by sloper at 08/29/2008 @ 3:38pm

7. Really weak choice by McCain. Where is Dan Quayle when you need her?

   A. Who? B. City counsel, then 2 years as governer, as the backup to a 72 year-old man? C. Hard right mostly. Will not appeal to independents. D. Clinton backers are not going to vote for a woman who is anti-choice, anti-feminist etc. E. Who?

   Posted by ElyDog at 08/29/2008 @ 3:40pm

8. Posted by sloper at 08/29/2008 @ 3:38pm

   Exactly. If you pay attention to state polls its much more accurate.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:41pm

9. Watch as Republicans turn circles trying to defend this as a great choice. This is hilarious. I love it.----Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:24pm

   Apparently two years as Governor of a state with a population equal to Charlotte, NC....is MUCH better than 4 years as a US Senator for the state of Illinois?!?!?!?

   Who knew???

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:42pm

10. Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 3:43pm

    HAPP still trying his Rush spin on this, Hannity on now, maybe he can help too.

    Point is, they just ATE months and months of DEMANDS for "experience" for a potential President. And now think that even a two-year Governor of 650,000 people (more like a medium-sized city mayor) is "ready to be Commander-in-Chief"....where as Obama wasn't.

    BTW, this is the SECOND time, in HAPP's deseperation.....

    he's mentioned an "un-natural" death for Obama.

    McCain is well within the range of a normal American lifespan...

    one wonders what kind of "RANGE" HAPP thinks Obama is in???

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:51pm

11. William Greider's article about the McCain candidacy being in desparation mode doesn't square with reality.

    McCain has been pretty much pulling even in recent polls.

    The idea that many Republicans or Conservatives or even moderates would switch to a leftist Democrat because of the Republican V.P. choice is also a bizzarre thought. No way is somebody going to switch to a leftist Democrat if they are not already ideologically in sync with doing so to begin with.

    Before Mr. Greider gets too comfortable with the idea of witnessing an Obama inauguration, he had better start planning what he will talk about when Gov. Palin becomes the 45th President of the United States. (see my post on one of the other blogs)

    Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:52pm

12. Also, Mr. Greider talks about a Hail Mary pass.

    Sometimes Hail Mary passes connect. (see Flutie, Doug (Boston College) vs U. Of Miami, November 23, 1984)

    Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:54pm

13. OMG. Too good to be true.

    Posted by ucnick at 08/29/2008 @ 3:58pm

14. McCain has been pretty much pulling even in recent polls.

    Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:52p

    Not state by state polls which are the ones to watch. National polls are worthless. He is ahead by 70 electoral votes in the state by state polls. This is desperation.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:01pm

15. Hello Cccomfo1,

    If I were to accept your argument that this is desperation, see Flutie, Doug (Boston College) vs U. Of Miami, November 23, 1984.

    Also see, Harris, Franco, December 23,1972.

    http://www.steelersfever.com/immaculate_reception.html

    Hail Mary passes do connect sometimes.

    Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:09pm

16. Palin is the only one out of them that has any executive experience at all. I think everyone knows that Bill Clinton doesn't like and believe that Obama can do what he says he is going to do. His whole speech at the convention was just because that was what he had to do to keep in the good graces of the democrats

    Posted by middleborn at 08/29/2008 @ 4:10pm

17. Hail Mary passes do connect sometimes. Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:09pm

    Yeah but they are desperation throws in the last ditch effort.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:12pm

18. My God..the Republicans went out and found a younger version of Anita Bryant (except Palin is a gun-toting Christian)...they really are desperate ...!

    Posted by Chabuka at 08/29/2008 @ 4:19pm

19. This sounds like the plotline from Battlestar Galactica, where a kindergarten teacher accidently ends up president.

    Is maverick another word for crazy?

    Posted by EEU at 08/29/2008 @ 4:20pm

20. You think this was done to woo Hillary voters? What? Are you kidding?

    Palin was selected to win back Republican voters who were thinking about dropping their chads for Obama/Biden. And to win voters who have no issue with a woman in the executive office. Opposition to Hillary amongst conservatives had nothing to do with her gender. It was her LIBERAL politics.

    Don't misunderestimate Palin. :-)

    Posted by freiheit1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:24pm

21. One thing you don't want to do when you are a 72 year old man is stand next to a 40 something woman all the time since it reminds everyone exactly how old you are. It will engender angry feelings from anyone whose spouse or sibling's spouse hit the road for a younger model. It certainly won't bring him a lot of electoral votes. Could be they are looking to 2012. Crist would have been a far better choice -- at least he would bring a substantial state with him.

    The polls cannot be right on this race. Obama's supporters are not on the prime voter lists. The polls vary between those taken weekdays and those taken over weekends likely becasue younger people tend to be out more on Friday nights.

    It depends almost solely on whether those young voters come out.

    Posted by FrostyFriends at 08/29/2008 @ 4:28pm

22. This can only mean he's going for broke in trying to win Hillary voters to his side. It does take the air out of the experience argument because she's younger than Obama, less experienced, and standing next to McCain makes him look pretty darn old. But he seemed to be doing a decent job of siphoning off Clintonites already. Unless Obama calls strong attention to the abortion issue, this can hardly hurt.

    Posted by scottbp at 08/29/2008 @ 4:30pm

23. Do they think that all that mattered to women who were for Hillary was her gender? So they pick a woman that could not be further from Hillary in terms of experience and policy? Idiots. I am so happy.

    Posted by cberkland at 08/29/2008 @ 4:41pm

24. McCain has chosen yet another excellent wife... and I'd say he has pretty awesome judgement on this score...;^)

    Maybe he has forgotten that he's choosing his potential successor to the POTUS... not just a 'running mate'.

    I like her... she's a 'reformer' of sorts but... I would NEVER vote for her (for potential POTUS) at this stage of her political career... and accepting McCain's nod may end it.

    Think Colin Powell...

    Then again... maybe she will help stoke a whole new Republican party platform... that one is needed, is another thing we can all agree on... and I think at this juncture, even the 'dyed in the wool' Repubs are ready to admit that we need one that works better than blowhardisms, 'secret plans', dummy down MSM, and quasi fascist chain of command intimidationship accords...

    I wish her the best... and I hope she lands a few punches Obama's way... because at this stage, McCain can't lay a glove on him... and we want him quick on his feet, with 'extra' sound judgement.

    Go Girl! Make him think! This will benefit us all.

    overall, however... this choice seems kind of 'off the cuff' and may be an unconscious attempt to cheapen a process that is unwinnable for McCain...

    Obama/Biden 2008

    Posted by ttr at 08/29/2008 @ 4:51pm

25. Palin is Harriet Meyers. RIP.

    Posted by barnesgene at 08/29/2008 @ 4:55pm

26. I guess Cindy was upset with John for offering her for the biker beauty contest, so he had to go out and find a replacement -- or else!

    Posted by barnesgene at 08/29/2008 @ 4:57pm

27. Ha! Zero, you're hilarious! I mean, a lot of guys fantasize about a woman who likes sports, is some sort of lower-tier beauty queen and goes fishing with them, but I think their fantasy is mostly sexual-it's not to lead the United States while the country is at war. What? Do you picture her in a red, white and blue bikini with an AK-47 strapped over her heaving chest?

    Oh wait! Maybe you think she can use her hunting skills to track down Bin Laden in the caves of Afghanistan? Oh yeah, that must be it. I mean, who needs leaders who can develop sound foreign policy, navigate diplomatic relations with world leaders or articulate our positions to the rest of the world. We'll just send President Polin-I mean, Palin (sorry, don't know how to spell her name yet since I've never HEARD of her). We'll send President Palin in while McCain is recovering from his third bout with cancer to shoot 'em up with her downhome, cowboy diplomacy just like Bush did, only this time the reckless, misguided policies are wearing a Christmas sweater.

    Posted by jancuisine at 08/29/2008 @ 4:58pm

28. HAPPY,

    your morbidity is quite disturbing.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:19pm

29. I wouldn't support McCain for dog-catcher.

    But as politics goes, Sarah Palin for VP is brilliant: She's the only one of the 4 (Obama, McCain, Biden) who's ever run anything, and what she ran was the biggest US state, one that shares borders with Canada and Russia. As a woman she neutralizes the whole historic-candidacy element: now either ticket makes history, and opposing Obama doesn't have to feel like opposing Michael Phelps winning that last gold medal.

    As to Palin's lack of experience, that's not a discussion the Democrats can afford -- it just invites the zinger that "Republicans put their experienced guy at the TOP of the ticket."

    Posted by mattbivens at 08/29/2008 @ 5:20pm

30. Boy, 2Happy doesn't seem too happy about his boy's choice. Spin as much as you like Hap, but the fact is that your boy Mac just blew his brains out for all the world to see. It's over, it's done, it's finished. Get ready for the new America.

    It will be MAGIC!!!

    Posted by gmlaster at 08/29/2008 @ 5:25pm

31. I sure like all the people here that are saying the Palin has less experience than the Barack "the community organizer" Obama. They need to do some reseach, She has held public offices for 5 more years then Obama. When Obama got elected to the U S Senate he just about immediately started running for President. He has no executive experience where she has run a state

    Posted by middleborn at 08/29/2008 @ 5:26pm

32. happy,

    if pastor death is telling you your posts are horrible,

    something is truly wrong.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:27pm

33. Not cool Happy. I think you out to retract those statements. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:23pm

    I'm sure Palin makes you happy. Don't have to worry about Romney now.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:29pm

34. While John mcCain is really trying to move the country forward and change business as usual, Barak Obama is hung up on how many houses McCain owns. Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 5:26pm

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    Yeah that 90% pro-Bush voting record shows it.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:31pm

35. 90% pro-Bush voting record

    Here I always thought it was congress that passed laws and sent them to the presidents desk to be sign. So you could say that everyone in congress has a 90% pro-Bush voting record.

    Posted by middleborn at 08/29/2008 @ 5:37pm

36. Posted by middleborn at 08/29/2008 @ 5:37pm

    Nice spin on that one.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:41pm

37. ...let's not kid ourselves that his pre-ordained longevity is the same as the the average native American with generations in this country! Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 5:21pm

    Never mind, of course, that his *mother* was just that: an "average native American with generations in this country." Which, of course, means that Obama too is an "a n A w g i t c." Or do you now wish to add sexism to your racism by claiming that only the father's ancestry matters?

    You mention earlier on about his mother being no more. Does it strike you that his *grandmother* is still alive? Do you have any idea how genetics works?

    It is actually quite pathetic to see you slavering at the thought of Obama's early death. Sad to see what a realistic chance of an Obama presidency does to you guys!

    Posted by oneworld at 08/29/2008 @ 5:43pm

38. Sometimes Hail Mary passes connect. (see Flutie, Doug (Boston College) vs U. Of Miami, November 23, 1984)

    Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:54pm

    Even blind squirrels find acorns from time to time.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 6:03pm

39. Hey, Skeleton man, what's the remaining life expectancy of a US black, recent ex-smoker at age 47 who is half Kenyan by birth?

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 5:21pm

    No clue. As "Bones" McCoy would say, "I'm a doctor, not an actuary"

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 6:12pm

40. Shoot, Mr. Greider, you just could have said "Ouch!"

    Posted by chinpoko at 08/29/2008 @ 6:30pm

41. To my mind Palin was a monumentally stupid choice. But, to my continuing amazement, GWB beat Gore and Kerry, Eisenhower beat Stevenson, and Reagan savaged Mondale-Ferraro. Is Palin worse than GWB was? All you intellectual posters forget, as I have done in the past, there is a strong anti-intellectual current in American politics ("I don't like no eggheads! or as George Wallce said "pointy headed liberals") that results in voters casting ballots for candidates they would like to have a beer with!

    Posted by jsens at 08/29/2008 @ 6:31pm

42. I can't wait until Gov. Palin and Cindy McCain are on stage together at the same time. Two intelligent, beautiful, pro-life Republican beauty queens impeccably dressed with perfect hair and makeup.

    You will hear the bodies of angry feminists hitting the floor thousands of miles from St. Paul. I think Katha Pollitt might suffer an aneurism on the spot.

    Posted by jimmylove at 08/29/2008 @ 6:39pm

43. Do not underestimate the Dark Side.

    I think that this is, regrettably, a brilliant move by the Republican party. Though admittedly few, Palin's accomplishments sound quite impressive. According to Wikipedia, she has done some real work in Alaska, which has helped improve the lives of many of her constituents - small practical achievements that Obama, for all his talk of change, can't really claim. Like McCain, Palin has been something of a maverick in her party and has voted on a lot of issues against the official line. But she is also a Christian, mother-of-five, pro-life, young foxy female, which are exactly the characteristics McCain's campaign - from a publicity point of view - desperately needs right now. We should better remember that politics in the US is about selling a product, not about policy. Not to mention that 75% of Americans would love a woman who fishes, hunts, and whose husband is a regular Joe working at an oil field and who, on top of that, is a snowmobile (read Alaskan rodeo) champion.

    Posted by sleuthsloth at 08/29/2008 @ 6:48pm

44. Palin is an insulting pick for women who value choice, healthcare, and equal pay for equal work!

    Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 3:36pm

    Are you suggesting that Governor Pallin's infant with down syndrome should have just been aborted? Pallin disagrees, believing in the sanctity of all human life. What a terrible person she is.

    Are you suggesting that Governor Pallin doesn't value healthcare? Really? What are you basing this on?

    And are you also suggesting that Ms. Pallin draws less of a salary as governor she would if she were a man? She does equal work, so she gets equal pay.

    Posted by jimmylove at 08/29/2008 @ 6:59pm

45. Magic's chances of dying of UNnatural cause is every bit as big, if not much bigger, than McCain! Oh, McCain's mom is still alive while Mommy Magic isn't....and Magic was a SMOKER until he ran for POTUS.....and did anyone notice, he's black which means lower life expectancy anyway...and sickle cell anemia (he does look unhealthily thin).

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 3:43pm

    Often I am left speechless by the seemingly intentional ignorance of HAPPY, but for me, this one takes the proverbial cake... African Americans do not have a shorter than average life expectancy in this country because of some defect in their genetic makeup (the 1800's called and they want their whack science back). Collectively African Americans tend to have less access to healthcare and education, and tend to live in areas with higher rates of violent crime and pollution. This is due to their class status and the wealth (power) that they have as a group, not the color of their skin or their genetic makup. I know you know this deep down inside, but it doesn't fit your worldview and doesn't support your ignorant (racist) argument.... Also, I find it entertaining that even after Mask called you out on the "magic" thing and made you look unoriginal and honestly a little foolish, you continue to stick with it. Every time you post it a closeted Republican gets his balls cupped by a little male angel.

    Posted by ADHD at 08/29/2008 @ 7:02pm

46. Sorry Mr. Greider, but I think the officials are going to rule it a fumble in the end zone, instead of a hail Mary (er...I guess it's a hail Sarah), and the other team has recovered. Check the instant replay though. The Repubs are now down by 3 touchdowns, it's less than two minutes to go, and they're out of time outs.

    Posted by Freewheelin_Franklin at 08/29/2008 @ 7:04pm

47. Remember folks....every time the Obama campaign makes mention of her inexperience, all it does is shine a stronger light on Obama's inexperience. It reinforces that message to voters. It is a brilliant strategy.

    The Messiah spent 143 days in the Senate before announcing his presidential exploratory committee....that's nothing. In the meantime, Palin has served as a mayor and a governor...she has been in executive roles...she has run things. Obama has not.

    And Obama is running for president...Palin only for veep.

    Everytime Palin is challenged on her inexperience, it gives her an opportunity to point to key achievements she has made as a reformer, a maverick, a Washington outsider, and as someone who has been willing to take on members of her own party. Whether you like it or not, Obama cannot point to the same things, and this will be exposed every single time inexperience is mentioned.

    Again, it's a brilliant strategy. This may be Karl Rove's best work yet.

    Posted by jimmylove at 08/29/2008 @ 7:13pm

48. Doctor:

    With all the modern medicine at your disposal, how long can you keep a US black, recent ex-smoker at age 47 who is half Kenyan by birth, alive? :~))

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 7:01pm

    Probably not that much different that most men his age; I'm not sure why this is so important.

    In third world countries, infection is still a far more important cause of early mortality than genetics, so I'm not clear that being half Kenyan is of any importance, other than hypertension being commonplace among those of African descent.

    As for abusing tobacco, well if he's quit, that's great. In 20 years he'll probably have COPD, but there is some recovery of lung function even among heavy smokers once they quit.

    Early coronary disease IS something that is driven largely by genetics, but without knowing family history, assessing risk is difficult other than to say what is already known to be the case for everyone, that is that smoking and hypertension are risk factors. He's a guy, which is a non-modifiable susceptibility.

    My off the cuff guess (not going to do a Bill Frist and give a tele diagnosis) is that McCain will croak well before Obama.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 7:25pm

49. The choice of Palin is obviously influenced by McLame's obsession with beauty queens/models to stroke his macho-male, ego-driven fantasies. There was his first wife, a former model (who he cheated on and divorced after she was disfigured in an auto accident...can't have that!)) and then Cindy, whom he volunteered for the biker buffalo-chip topless pageant (sure that she would win, of course), and now with his veep choice, another former beauty contestant (though he did opt for a brunette, showing his diversity).

    Also, his choice could be shrewd in an attempt to capture another elusive demographic, the high school/college partying, stoner, slacker MILF lovin' first time voter. Hey, I am impressed! Gotta give him credit.

    Posted by mc_jammer at 08/29/2008 @ 7:31pm

50. The idea that - if individuals recognized their socio-economic inerests, they would vote for Democrats - is fundamentally rooted in Marxist notion of "false consciousness." It aggrandizes the so-called wise men (such as Obama) at the expense of lumpen-proletariat that is the rest of America. Therefore it is also inherently anti-democratic idea.

    Ordinary Americans, just like most human beings, recognize their self-interest. Which is why they want a government that does not usurp those interests in the name of imaginary causes by expanding redistributive policies.

    The sooner leftists stop infantilizing the American electorate and at least recognize the legitimacy of their opponents' arguments, maybe they might win the elections. How's that recipe for "taking back America."

    Here's another ridiculous leftist slogan. You want to take back America? Stop insulting people's intelligence and win the darn elections.

    Posted by patriot1453 at 08/29/2008 @ 7:33pm

51. Remember folks....every time the Obama campaign makes mention of her inexperience, all it does is shine a stronger light on Obama's inexperience. It reinforces that message to voters. It is a brilliant strategy.

    Posted by jimmylove at 08/29/2008 @ 7:13pm

    You could not be more mistaken about the 'strategy' employed by McCain.

    People are going to look at her and realize that it's very well possible that she might end up president and run, not walk away from that ticket.

    Palin as a Veep has no ability to rein in the cowboy antics McCain is capable of; she does nothing to balance the GOOPer ticket and is in fact a liability in that regard.

    Biden, on the other hand, as a Veep does bring much to balance BO. He is experienced, particularly in foreign affairs. Biden could quite easily redirect Obama (who is far more amenable to redirection that McCain).

    I won't be surprised at all to see Palin dropped (a la Harriet Meyers) by the end of September.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 7:37pm

52. That's one to save for the record.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/29/2008 @ 7:42pm

    Go ahead and save it; bear in mind that I made no prediction, just indicated that if she were chucked under the bus, I wouldn't regard that as unexpected.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 7:46pm

53. "It is irritating to see so many vote against their best interests,year after year, election after election...."

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 7:50pm

    I'm giggling my ass off at your silly gripe.

    As an FYI, I'd stand to benefit (quite a lot, actually) by McCain's tax plan but wouldn't vote for that sack of dog defecation if my life depended on it.

    So I'm voting against my best interest, at least financially.

    I hope repubs everywhere gnash their teeth and rend their garments.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 7:56pm

54. This woman is completely unqualified for high public office, even more unqualified than Barack Obama--and that is definitely saying something. McCain and the Republicans have insulted the American people with this absurd choice and, in the unlikely chance the GOP wins, will have gravely endangered this nation. If this is the best that party can do, then it deserves to be sent to the dustbin of history.

    Posted by feinfein at 08/29/2008 @ 8:05pm

55. If this is the best that party can do, then it deserves to be sent to the dustbin of history.

    Posted by feinfein at 08/29/2008 @ 8:05pm

    I like it !!!!

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 8:09pm

56. Unbelievable. I heard this news while I was watching Good Morning America. I left a phone msg w/my friend, who later called me back telling what I told her about Palin being McCain's veep pick was hilarious; she thought I was joking. The conservative repubs are thrilled. Seriously. So, odd since she lacks experience. The other potential McCain candidates, and other vastly experienced political men & women should feel quite slighted being passed over for the MILF (AKA Palin). No disrespect to Palin, but she sure has a purty mouth. Please deliver me from that last comment. Anyway, McCain marries beauty queen wife #1, kicks her to the curb after beauty queen #2 enters his life while he's STILL married to ol' crip, and now he can spend his days at the office w/beauty queen #3. Awesome! That smart ol'coot McCain! Anyway, c'mon guys, Hillary supporters can't fall for the interchangeable woman for woman, bait and switch ploy! But the US has some ignorant folk as demonstrated in that film Borat. . . . anyway, please, please, please Obama/Biden for 2008!

    PS-Do you know you can get a ringtone w/Obama's voice? And where can I get my Palin MILF shirt? ; )

    Posted by nameerf at 08/29/2008 @ 8:34pm

57. Ageism.... Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 6:57pm

    Weird Happy. Throwing out a lot of ism's lately. Feeling a little desperate?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 8:41pm

58. http://tinyurl.com/6yd5qr

    Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 9:25pm

59. Not sure that it is particularly wise for people who are supposed to consider themselves occupants of a higher plane to refer to someone as 'vagina.'

    Progressives are better than that; leave the demeaning of others based upon traits that cannot be changed to others.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/29/2008 @ 9:33pm

60. Sarah Palin has so far slipped under the radar of complete media scrutiny. Hopefully those who know how to dig up these things will find out what travesty has occurred. For the sake of the American people this ploy must be exposed.

    This woman is a Christian Soldier, carefully groomed from high school to her stint at the University of Idaho. She belongs to the Feminist For Life organization(See motherjones.com), and is an advocate for "Creation Science" in public schools. Her husband has been a frequent sit in at various official state meetings and is an employee of BP, a company that has a heavy interest in Alaskan government largess.

    Senator McCain has met her for a total of 8 hours and she gets the VP over more deserving members of his party. His head has again been turned by a beauty queen and ego massage. This is a problem he can handle by therapy, but the American people do not have to catch his illness. Sy Hersch please help us out.

    Posted by OETKB at 08/29/2008 @ 9:45pm

61. John McCains, dan quail.

    The republicans never fail to surprise me.

    If I were a women I would be insulted.

    This blatant effort to grab Hillary's undecided votes and/or provide an upstage to the DNC convention is pure politics and irresponsible.

    The experience issue is out the window but more importantly, we're talking about a women who has two years experience in office as gov. of Alaska! Zero world stage experience, zero understanding of Washington.

    If you think for a moment that zero understanding of Washington is a positive thing, think Carter. Regardless of her tough stance and aggressive personality ... she will be eaten alive in Washington.

    McCain ... 72 yesterday. I can just picture Palin sitting in tough negociation with Putin should McCain kick the bucket in office.

    What was McCain thinking? What is the Republican party thinking?

    If anything this should seal the presidency for Obama. McCain's judgment has to be questioned.

    Posted by Hoot at 08/29/2008 @ 10:39pm

62. Borat!

    Yes.

    Clearly, Borat has scripted this one, it's just too good.

    Mondale, a rather more capable pol than McC, chose Geraldine F in '84.

    And just look at all the good she did him. Nor will gender alone now do the trick, such as it is.

    Praise the Lord, Sarah, and pass the ammo & moosechops.

    Posted by sloper at 08/29/2008 @ 10:40pm

63. Mr.Greider uses the word "desperation"......

    well there's another word he should become familiar with:

    RASSMUSSEN

    Seems that half of the voters don't know McCain's campaign is in such DESPERATE shape.

    Seriously......

    If Obama's all that...where's the Regan-like numbers?

    Lastly, check out congress's approval rating. George Bush is WORSE than Hoover and the DEMS are puttin' up numbers like this.

    And where's Harry "the dweeb" Reid lately??

    Posted by bleedingheart at 08/29/2008 @ 10:47pm

64. Palin is an insulting pick for women who value choice, healthcare, and equal pay for equal work!

    Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 3:36pm

    Are you suggesting that Governor Pallin's infant with down syndrome should have just been aborted?...

    Posted by jimmylove at 08/29/2008 @ 6:59pm |

    Where on earth does is say that Palin should have aborted her baby in that comment. Are you blind? Can you read? Or is this just a typical characteristic of your ilk (to make up lies)? You apparently do not know what the word "choice" means. It means that you can choose to keep the pregnancy or not, but the decision is always between you and your doctor, not the government. You see most women and men in this country (60%+) feel it should be left up to the women and her doctor in deciding what she wants to do with her pregnancy.

    I don't understand why you pro-death types don't realize that you are in the minority. The majority of the American public believe in women's rights and her right to choice. The reason that most anti-choice people oppose abortion is for religious reasons, so let me remind you that this is not the United States of the Christian Taliban. The majority of us don't want to live under religious rule. Go back and read your history/constitution/bill of rights is you are confused about the concept of "separation of church and state".

    Posted by meeneecat at 08/29/2008 @ 11:39pm

65. I am surprised that a latte sippin, chardonnay swigging type even knows what a hail mary pass is.

    There will be NoBama crossover voters, they are voting on race and fluff. The hispanics are socially conservative and the larger minority, so that will negate the black vote. Contrary to popular belief hispanics would rather work hard than get a government handout, it's called machismo pride (sorry feminists). Hillary feminists will vote against the pretty girl, because they have hairy legs.

    So as much as you all think it is the last act of a desperate man, it is quite possibly the best pick. A washington outsider, a woman who called out a crook in her own party, which a dem would never do (i.e. Jefferson of Louisiana.) and someone who has about as much experience as the lead De candidate who actually believes what she thinks.

    Obama has to hide under his empty rhetoric and typical liberal class warfare.

    Posted by apoorspic at 08/29/2008 @ 11:43pm

66. ALASKA; WHERE THE ODDS ARE GOOD ... BUT THE GOODS ARE ODD.

    Posted by Hoot at 08/29/2008 @ 11:46pm

67. Even if you don't like Obama, but you gotta admit McCain would be 4 more years of stupid.

    Posted by hamblinbone at 08/30/2008 @ 12:06am

68. Palin is so obviously unqualified to be vice president. What possible relevant experience could she have acquired during her less than two years as governor of one of the least populous states in the country? To think that she'd be the proverbial heartbeat away from the presidency... what a horrifying thought. That's the stuff nightmares are made of. Greider hit the nail on the head... for McCain to have chosen someone of this caliber speaks to his desparation.

    Posted by billtc at 08/30/2008 @ 12:20am

69. I am less concerned about the historical nature of the race or gender of the candidates than with the history that will be created by the ones elected. In a year in which all the candidates were running against the current administration, the Republicans are still having a difficult time distinguishing between the substance of the Democrats' campaign and its form.

    The selection of a running mate is one of the first indications of the criteria the new President will use in selecting the important cabinet members and advisors. Obama seems to be looking toward how his administration will function and govern. McCain seems to be looking more toward pacifying the religious right and getting elected.

    Who really knows if Palin would be a good vice-president or not? It is a gamble since there is no real record by which to judge her. Remember that Obama was a choice of millions of voters who turned out to vote for him in primaries and caucuses. Palin was the choice of one person.

    Posted by bakerman at 08/30/2008 @ 12:24am

70. Do you think that Obama's detractors are terrified at his supposed lack of experience? Palin may have executive experience, but would you really feel comfortable with her taking over if McCain can't fulfill his responsibilities?

    Posted by dwtubtone at 08/30/2008 @ 12:39am

71. I look at this as a gift. If McCain had any chance, he just tossed it down the well.

    Posted by rasputin195 at 08/30/2008 @ 01:01am

72. Investigate Sarah Palin's financial condition. You may find it instructive.

    Posted by tenpa at 08/30/2008 @ 01:59am

73. There is a narrow segment of our population that believes that doing anything to serve their faith is justified, even if those actions violate the law. Many of these people could not support McCain before he selected the homophobic, anti-choice, ethically-challenged Palin to the VP role.

    Now these people -- many of whom have wormed their way into the election machinery of the United States -- have a reason to facilitate the massive election fraud that will be required to insure a continuation of this criminal cabal. We have already seen election corruption originating in the Justice department where grads fresh from Bob Jones University put prosecutors with distinguished careers through a litmus loyalty test to determine if they were fit to continue to serve.

    Those who focus on Palin's lack of qualifications for election to the critical role a heartbeat away from the Presidency miss the point -- Her purpose is to energize and mobilize those that will facilitate the stealing of the third Presidential election in a row.

    Posted by MCLamb at 08/30/2008 @ 02:32am

74. Often I am left speechless by the seemingly intentional ignorance of HAPPY, but for me, this one takes the proverbial cake... African Americans do not have a shorter than average life expectancy in this country because of some defect in their genetic makeup (the 1800's called and they want their whack science back).

    Posted by ADHD at 08/29/2008 @ 7:02pm

    don't blame happy. he has a defect in his genetic makeup due to his mother mating with her cousin.

    Posted by jsingleton361 at 08/30/2008 @ 02:41am

75. "Magic's chances of dying of UNnatural cause is every bit as big, if not much bigger, than McCain! Oh, McCain's mom is still alive while Mommy Magic isn't....and Magic was a SMOKER until he ran for POTUS.....and did anyone notice, he's black which means lower life expectancy anyway...and sickle cell anemia (he does look unhealthily thin)."

    This from the anti-science side.

    "A black (Half Kenyan who aren't known for long lives) as POTUS, who was a SMOKER until very recently, and who would be a more `attractive' assassination target to certain extemists, has LESS than .033 chance of dying in a year?"

    Oh, this is rich, the idea of "certain extremists." Well, if you were working in World Trade Center towers, the idea of being an "attractive" target was pretty good, too. What are you trying to tell us/grasp at?

    By the way, the "Half Kenyan" argument reveals very much about you: Kenyans may or may not be known for long lives, but are those differences genetic or societal. If you believe the latter, your point is moot as Obama lives here. If the former, well, nothing to say, why don't you just be honest about your racism?

    Posted by onthehelm at 08/30/2008 @ 02:44am

76. Dear venerable reasoners--re: Palin.

    The venerables overlook the youth vote. And the reasoners can't believe that elections are beauty contests.

    Dube

    Posted by Dube at 08/30/2008 @ 04:23am

77. How can we judge Palin as a possible commander in chief? There is no record of relevant educational experience, military service, and writings or extemporaneous comments on any aspect of US foreign policy. Obama has worked to secure loose nuclear material, he anticipated what the consequences of the occupation of Iraq would be and what the consequences of the lack of ground troops in Afghanistan would be; he has written on Indonesian history and laid out his position on Israel in a very impressive statement given to a synagogue in Ohio; he has struggled to keep alive civil liberties in our response to terrorism; he has worked to limit the use of cluster bombs; he has worked on many technical aspects of immigration reform, e.g. family reunification provisions and openness to refugees The right wing can speak all they want about Obama's inexperience, but there is no dearth of judgements, legislative efforts and even legislation on which they could focus in assessing Obama's foreign policy views. Palin however is a blank page. All we know is that she does not think there is a global warming problem which will require international cooperation to solve. I doubt that she could locate Pakistan's FATA region on map or that she knows where the West Bank is. I would be surprised if she knew a thing about the nuclear deal with India. And there is way no the nation or Biden will be able to test her knowledge in one highly restricted debate in October. Obama has made extensive comments on all this; the American people and the press can check Obama and Biden. That can't be done with Palin. The press should have presented her with a world map today and asked her to locate some hot spots--Kashmir, Cyprus, Kosova, Georgia. Obama would have passed as an undergraduate; Palin not now

    Posted by hartal at 08/30/2008 @ 04:37am

78. Her purpose is to energize and mobilize those that will facilitate the stealing of the third Presidential election in a row. Posted by MCLamb at 08/30/2008 @ 02:32am

    Careful there, you're getting uncomfortably close to reality.

    Ave, Sarah, Dominus tecum ... & you're gonna need Him, sister.

    As for your historic predecessor, what did Geraldine F do, after doing so much for Mondale?

    Did she dedicate herself to a life of public service?

    Hardly, her 1st action indicated much of her next 24 years ... she sold herself as a shill for PepsiCola for a few million. Not a glance back on her Queens working class constituency, except to sell the sisterhood sugar water with gas.

    Posted by sloper at 08/30/2008 @ 05:48am

79. After J.F.Kennedy, Obama seems to have clear understanding of the impact of pasts on present. His speech itself shows that clarity of his future plans for taking forward America to better position in all spheres especially in economy and in providing employment to all American citizens.

    Posted by A.Kannan at 08/30/2008 @ 07:04am

80. Don't forget ... a women who's office is currently under investigation for abuse of power.

    I love the rep. rhetoric regarding her qualifications;

    She's an "excutive"? Come on! Two years behind the desk in the state of Alaska.

    She's "popular" with her people? Come on! The entire state hated the previous gov. Ronald McDonald could step in and look like a hero in this state.

    She was major of a town w/ a population of 5600! Enough said.

    She's "pro-life" Got the right wing salavating.

    She's a gun toting, card carrier. Got the right wing wetting their pants.

    She's a journalism major from Idaho. Got some appropriate education creditials!

    She was runner up in a beautiy pagent. In Alaska she was competing with women with hair under their lips and arm pits.

    She has 5 kids! One of which will go to Iraq (along with the thousands of other kids that have gone). One w/ DS.

    How can you in your wildest imagination compare Obama with Palin? Education, experience and or in any other way.

    As Obama said, "McCain doesn't get it".

    And for those of you that support McCain you don't get it as well.

    We don't want you!!! You are proven dishonest losers.

    And now your leader McCain has proven his poor judgment and the overwhelming evidence that he's an idiot!

    Posted by Hoot at 08/30/2008 @ 07:07am

81. I will or should I say that I know I am only echoing the majority of posts here but, watching these talking heads spin this,is amazing to say the least. After all the bluster about expierience and now this decision. As I said before Amazing.

    Posted by eniobob at 08/30/2008 @ 09:15am

82. The pictures are gonna kill him on this, much more than the substance. The two of them together just screams "trophy wife".

    Which leads to, he already has one of those, right? She's filthy rich, right? Was she always his wife?

    Um, no, actually the first thing he did after toughing it out as a POW was freak out and cheat on his wife with an heiress.

    He'll attract exactly zero new votes from women because of this. Matter of fact, he'll lose a bunch. Real women don't like kooks. And this makes him look like a kook.

    Which always was, and always will be, McCain's big weakness.

    Posted by MyParadigm at 08/30/2008 @ 09:27am

83. Man, the GOOPers have taken the 'guy you'd want to have a beer with' thing and run with it, haven't they?

    Now they're onto the 'MILF you'd like to beer goggle with.'

    Didn't anyone ever tell them that friends don't let friends beer goggle?

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/30/2008 @ 10:10am

84. lvliberty1: "What accomplishments and qualifications does Obama have to be president?"

    The only qualification that matters is that he is not Bush and he is not (at least not yet) a war criminal.

    We're sick and tired of Bush's wars, Bush's approval of torture, and Bush's shredding of the constitution, or, as he himself put it, "that goddamned piece of paper".

    John "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" McCain has shown that he wants more of the same, maybe slightly less extreme than Bush on the shredding the constitution side, but even more extreme than Bush on the war side.

    You don't have to be madly in love with Obama to think he is the better of those 2 choices.

    Posted by McCainIsBush at 08/30/2008 @ 12:37pm

85. "Not to mention that 75% of Americans would love a woman who fishes, hunts, and whose husband is a regular Joe working at an oil field and who, on top of that, is a snowmobile (read Alaskan rodeo) champion."

    Are you kidding me? 75% of all Americans?

    I don't believe that 75% of all Americans knew that there even existed a "snowmobile champion", or Alaskan rodeo.

    The media will use polls that show that this is close...But unless 75% of Americans don't vote, or are really as stupid as the rest of the world seems to think, this isn't even close...

    Mcain, his arguments, his ads, and now his pick, seems really amatuerish. Any self respecting republican, or conservative should be jumping ship.

    ...let the democrats have this one, watch them fail, and figure out who to head the party in 2012. Hillary has her plan.

    75%....really....

    Posted by interested_canadian at 08/30/2008 @ 12:56pm

86. MILF, huh,...I guess that 's liberal.

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/30/2008 @ 11:58am

    Read the post and try to figure out whose attitude it was that I was invoking.

    I'll give you a hint: it's not flattering to your side.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/30/2008 @ 12:58pm

87. Alright Jomama...lets say your right.

    Obama has ZERO experience, because Palin has actually governed. Palin has actual executive experience. Obama's community organizer experience counts for nothing.

    What are you using to say that Mcain has executive experience? To use your argument is to point out that Palin has more executive experience than the man who picked her. What community experience does Mcain have to counter Obama's?

    Mcain married a rich woman. He was born in Panama. He was part of the "Keating five". What does he know about the community?

    I doubt, after being tested by the Clinton's, that Obama himself would be stupid enough to go after Palin, on experience. As a matter of fact, the Obama house needs only to wait for Republicans to say something about Obama's lack of experience, and the median will ask about Palin's.

    How did Mcain win the republican primary's anyway? He was a bad choice for republicans, and conservatives. And now they have to defend his choice of running mate....

    Its over....

    Posted by interested_canadian at 08/30/2008 @ 1:10pm

88. Grieder makes some great points. But I think a crucial element has been left out of the article as well as mainstream news coverage. Grieder passes over a central issue by saying the following, "There's no need to disparage Sarah Palin. She's seems like a smart, serious person. " This assumption is actually completely false. This woman doesn't believe global warming is man-made! This position has been widely discredited and at this point to maintain this position is tantamount to saying "the world is flat." This alone should invalidate McCain's campaign, seeing as he now believes the opposite is the case! In addition she is fighting to have polar bears taken off of the endangered species list so she can mine their habitat for fossil fuels! Also what exactly is the educational background of this self-described "hockey mom"? I mean if the GOP wants to compare her to Obama, who is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review, it might be important to see what research she has formally done. These are issues which 24-hour news stations like CNN ignore as they simply parrot GOP talking points.

    Posted by dnewton at 08/30/2008 @ 1:29pm

89. Heard this yesterday:

    You know what the difference between a hockey mom and a female pitbull is?

    The lipstick.

    What I wanna know is who first came up with the idea of putting lipstick on a female pitbull and why.

    That and who actually puts it own.

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/30/2008 @ 1:34pm

90. Jomamma -

    "sense of dececny"? Your current administration is responsible for thounsands of young American lives wasted. You, as a result of your support share that responsibility. "sense of decency"?

    Homes lost, jobs lost, the economy in the worst shape since the depression, our reputation and stature damaged around the world. "sense of decency"?

    I can not convey the contempt I hold you and those like you for what you have done to our country.

    But ... besides gays, people of color, freedom of choice, Ted Kennedy, what we know you fear the most is being taxed. It's always the bottom line for you and your kind.

    So ... we will tax you to support the many programs you absoulty hate. You will share the dream with us and you will share in the cost.

    Enjoy the next 8 years of us rebuilding what you and your party have reduced to rubble.

    "sense of decency" and "intellegence level". It seems we've had 8 long years to measure yours.

    Now we're going to rebuild our schools, provide health care for those who need, defend Roe v Wade, support the rights of gays, keep your church out of government, stop you from drilling meaningless oil wells for profits, pry some of the guns out of your cold, mindless fingers and take back the country you and your party stole 8 years ago.

    Hey ... we might just bus your kids or grandchildren to the South side of Chicago to go to school too. You need a reality check.

    "sense of decency"? Please show some and just shut up. Your turn is almost over.

    Posted by Hoot at 08/30/2008 @ 1:46pm

91. Hate to break it to you dnewton, but the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming has already been scientifically disproven. The British MET office, however reluctantly, will show you the data: although CO2 levels continue to rise, the global average temperature has been statistically flat for 10 years, and has actually been falling slightly for the last 7 years. Satellite data shows no upper tropospheric warming trend at all. These two testable hypotheses are central to the theory, and they both PROVE IT INCORRECT. Oh do please check this out. The socialist hunger for global wealth redistribution will keep the politics alive (at least until the glaciers start advancing again), but you can't rely on the oxymoron of "scientific consensus" anymore. In science, a lone investigator with the correct answer always wins, no matter how many join in trying to discredit him or her.

    Obama's "fresh" is leaking away (Biden is a big hole in that tank). The anti-Palin/anti-McCain vitriol I'm reading here is only a preview of the final installment in the decadal trilogy of post-electoral leftist anguish I expect to have to put up with in November. I find it a small price to pay for good governance. McCain-Palin will moderate the GOP, govern bipartisanly from the center to reunite the country, and push the polemicists on both sides back to the fringes where they clearly belong.

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 2:03pm

92. Sounds like the Republicans are running GI Joe and Barbie for President and Vice-President.

    Posted by jimlouloudes at 08/30/2008 @ 2:04pm

93. McCain-Palin will moderate the GOP, govern bipartisanly from the center to reunite the country, and push the polemicists on both sides back to the fringes where they clearly belong.

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 2:03pm

    Do you actually believe this?

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/30/2008 @ 2:24pm

94. Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 2:03pm

    Do you actually believe this?

    Posted by skeletonman

    Man overboard!

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 08/30/2008 @ 2:27pm

95. McCain-Palin will moderate the GOP, govern bipartisanly from the center to reunite the country, and push the polemicists on both sides back to the fringes where they clearly belong.

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 2:03pm

    Do you actually believe this?

    Posted by skeletonman at 08/30/2008 @ 2:24pm

    Yes. Both candidates own political records supporting this belief. I'm not one to avoid checking the record.

    I do avoid being misled about the record whenever possible. What percentage of the time did Obama "vote with Bush?" Didn't he vote for Cheney's energy policy, which McCain opposed?

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 2:37pm

96. manoover - Your statements on global warming are ridiculous and disproven by an unassailable mountain of data and scientific consensus. The McCain-Pailin ticket is a joke. Pailin's nomination is a cheap political ploy proving McCain will do anything to get elected. McCain has supported Bush 95% percent of the time. The last 8 years have been an utter failure by all measures. For you to argue these flimsy and demonstratively false points just proves how brainwashed you and your cohorts are.

    This statement is hillarious one could pretty much use it to substantiate any position:

    "In science, a lone investigator with the correct answer always wins, no matter how many join in trying to discredit him or her."

    You republicans love your fake plastic aphorisms don't you?

    Posted by dnewton at 08/30/2008 @ 3:06pm

97. Manoover - you are insane

    Your position exhibits that highly fascinating form of republican concentration/meditation techniques that involve achieving inner peace and righteousness by mentally shutting out all truth that does not conform to your particular zen inversion.

    Concerning global warming; for every one of your numbers that shows a statistical flatline in global average temperatures, I can show you 100 that show those temperatures are rising. This ratio of 100 to 1 shows that statistically, you are wrong.

    Your estimation of the upcoming election also reflects the paucity of sanity emanating from your recalcitrant funhouse chamber.

    Posted by ADM at 08/30/2008 @ 3:34pm

98. dnewton - Dig an inch under your "95% with Bush" stat, and you'll see you've been misled. The majority of Senate votes are meaningless and unanimous (naming Post Offices, congratulating sports teams, etc). Take Obama's measure under the same standards used to produce the 95% figure, and you'll find he's the same.

    To become truly informed, spend a week or so in a research project at the THOMAS database. Start at 2004, select the legislation that matters, and compare Obama with McCain. Trust me, the DNC and the Obama campaign will not do this responsible research for you.

    For both Obama and McCain, their actual work, and not their campaigns, should be informing your judgment. For me, the choice is clear when it comes to leadership: McCain.

    I don't expect you'll even consider doing this work for yourself. Here's the link you should have checked before disputing my AGW statements:

    http://tinyurl.com/56yblz

    The MET Office is an AGW booster, but the data doesn't lie. The graphs start at 1850, roughly the end of the Little Ice Age, when the current long, NATURAL global warming period began. Since 1998, global temps are drifting down steadily.

    If you understand the theory of AGW, this data CAN'T be reconciled with it.

    BTW, NASA issued a correction last year about the warmest years on record. It seems that 1998 is only number 2. The warmest year was 1934, and 1921 is in 3rd place. Three of the five warmest years occurred before 1940. MET-O hasn't retro-updated the charts, of course. Why not?

    http://tinyurl.com/36k5gc

    Goracle lies. Check for yourself. Then read up on Galileo before telling me again about science & consensus.

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 4:05pm

99. ADM - I await your 100 charts of global temperatures showing this decade's RISE in global temps. Actually, just one will do.

    I also await your sensible explaination of how 2 degrees of troposhperic temperature oscillation (encompassing both sides of the midline) over the last 100 years could possibly raise temps significantly here on the ground, where the CO2 is so thin that our farmers have to pump it into cornfields to feed our crops.

    Take your time. I don't think your insane, only misinformed, and I'll rejoice in your enlightenment on this issue.

    Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 4:16pm

100. Amazing. You're all falling for the trap. Faced with a charismatic but inexperienced opponent, the Republicans counter with a charismatic and inexperienced VP candidate, in the obvious hope that the left will be dumb enough to point out her inexperience. Because, and please listen carefully because it's crucial to the election's outcome, a debate that begins with the proposition that inexperience is a disqualification for office hurts the Democrats (whose presidential candidate is the experienced one) more than the Republicans (whose presidential candidate has vast experience). Viewed this way, Palin's inexperience isn't a liability, it's a strategic asset! Sorry to be harsh, but jeeze, you guys are usuall smarter than this. Falling for such a blatant trap is something I'd expect out of the other side, not you.

     Posted by rubinoja at 08/30/2008 @ 4:25pm

101. Your point is wisely stated, rubinoja. The experience argument is the double-edged sword that will miss Palin and cut Obama's head off.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 4:35pm

102. Manoover -

     Your attempts to distance McCain from the Bush regime and the former republican rubber-stamp congress are understandable, but futile. Very few are ignorant enough to believe your verifiably false claims. Why even try? McCain supported Bush in both elections right? Campaigned for Bush both times and endlessly praised him. Said himself "Studies show I have supported President Bush 95% of the time." His own words. Voted for the war. Was against the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy before he was for them. The list goes on and on. All you and the GOP can do is futily try to separate the one from the other. Thats your only prayer in this election and so understandably thats the card your playing. Lie to yourself all you want, I don't think anyone but the most deluded will buy your assertions.

     Your wrongheaded position on global warming is again bore out by a majority scientific consensus around the world and study after study. The very site you reference as a source to prove your claims, just 2 sources in total by the way, states that human activity is causing global warming. Their words: "The annual timeseries illustrates the increase since the 1850s in global mean temperatures. This increase is much larger than the known sources of error. The warming has occurred in two main phases: 1920-40 and particularly since the mid-1970s. Research at the Met Office Hadley Centre using state-of-the-art climate models has shown that this behaviour can only adequately be accounted for by a combination of natural and human factors: the latter dominate."

     Like all GOP talking points, arguments, and philosophies you only advance these statements again and again in the hope that your repetition will make you right regardless of empiracle facts.

     Posted by dnewton at 08/30/2008 @ 4:51pm

103. Alaska is a small state with a ton of money. Most of Alaska is administered by the federal govt. Any commenter on this blog could run it and still have time for fishing and target practice. The choice of Palin in a joke, more proof that McCain doesn't get it.

     Equally insulting to the intelligence is the argument that because Obama is half Kenyan, he must have a short life expectancy. Kenyans have a short life expectancy because they live in a poor country, not because of genetic shortcomings.

     Paul Begala is no favorite of mine, but I'm with him on this one: As a Democrat, I love it; as an American, I'm offended.

     Posted by pkgoode at 08/30/2008 @ 4:53pm

104. POLITICAL POKER MY EYE!

     McCain just demonstrated his irresponsibility towards our government. Playing poker with the future of the citizens, dealing a wild card out of ego and not in the interest of our nation and the world is an insult to the American people. You are playing with the future of our nation, our economy, and global relations Mr. McCain. To bring in someone who has no experience with anything outside of Alaska, a geographical state so different than any of the others, is beyond comprehension. This person, who responds to issues with PTA rhetoric will look ridiculous in front of world leaders, senators, representatives and royalty. McCain's desire to win the presidency blinded him to pick the most unqualified politician. To use her as a wild card representing Anti-Abortion and God as if those topics are the only things required to win and run the most powerful nation on earth is an act of IMPIETY! Shame on you and shame on those who think this is a game. Let the debates begin! If this woman wants to play political poker with the Democrats, well then I do not expect the republican pundits, the media, and any politician to give her a pass. She deserves the same respect and equal play just like Clinton, Pelosi, Waters, Brazile, Chisholm, Jordan, Velasquez, Azbug, and the great ANN RICHARDS. I don't expect you to whine when it gets to complicated for you Palin; Who ever you are.

     Mr. Biden does not need to treat her less equal when comes to politics. Joe please show her what equal treatment in a debate is all about!

     Posted by Tasia at 08/30/2008 @ 5:02pm

105. The choice settles a gnawing Q ... answer: yes, McC is a Trojan horse for the Dems.

     Thanks, John, you understand what real sacrifice means.

     Posted by sloper at 08/30/2008 @ 6:07pm

106. dnewton, I'm attempting only to determine how fully you've explored McCain's record for yourself, or that of Obama. It's pretty clear you haven't.

     Obama produced zero legislation during his first six years in the IL Senate. He had a miraculous 26 pieces of legislation in his last year, thanks to leader Emil Jones, who hijacked the projects of other legislators in order to pump up Obama's record for his US Senate run. Check out Ricky Hendon and Alice Palmer, fellow Dems, for some local opinion on his tenure there.

     In his only real-world executive experience, Obama chaired the Chicago Annenberg Challenge during this time, and was directly responsible for squandering $150M of grant money to no good affect on education. Now that the UIChi library has stopped hiding the records, we're learning why it failed: projects like Bill Ayers' "freedom schools," where children and teachers were indoctrinated with 60s radicalism, as well as the educationally-questionable ACORN, were funded without accountability, while projects such as an algebra initiative were denied. Good stewardship, eh?

     At the Capitol, Biden gave him the chair of a foreign relations subcommittee where he failed to convene a single meeting and worked on no bills. Foreign policy experience, eh?

     Both McCain and Palin have substantial accomplishments demonstrating political bravery and ACTUAL change. I have no room to list McCain's in this post, but I've done so before on this site. No bull. Check me. Then you can list just 2 or 3 (or even one) shining change "on the ground" which attracts you to Obama.

     And, in your totally unsourced way, you've completely avoided addressing my two specific and referenced (UK MET-O, NASA) points on the AGW BS. I'm 200% better supported than you are, so far.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 6:18pm

107. HaHaHa! Surprised THEY didn't choose a black woman. Why not wait for their convention and pick the prettiest black woman with any smidgeon of public service

     Posted by PWAW at 08/30/2008 @ 6:19pm

108. Manoover -

     If you want to find charts that show the scientific evidence for global warming, I suggest you go to google.com and search for "global warming." Presumably an intelligent yet slightly unbalanced person such as yourself should be able to proceed from there.

     Also, your focus on the last ten years as some sort of conclusive evidence concerning global effects of man's habitation of the planet is as laughable and shortsighted as your initial denial of global warming, which started with agriculture and the replacement of forest with monoculture.

     Posted by ADM at 08/30/2008 @ 6:23pm

109. I think folks misunderestimate Palin at their own peril. How different is 4 years in the Senate and 2 years as a governor? Palin has actually run a government... that is something NONE of the other 3 guys on the ticket can say. Obama has been running for president for a year now, but Palin... pound for pound... has a much more accomplished record than Obama.

     Let's not mistake media awareness for experience. I think people are going to be surprised. All the soccer moms may not be persuaded... but, as a husband of a mom that is in the middle of all these mom networks... SOCCER MOMS ARE NOW FULLY ENGAGED. My wife actually read political commentary on CNN.com today for the first time in her life.

     When these moms pick up the political commentary on the net and they read all this snobbery drivel like her being an insult to feminists... it will turn them off. Most women are a lot more like Palin than Hillary (e.g. Mom vs. Ivy League educated... have trouble with kids... not the perfect Stanford kid). Keep on mocking her and watch McCain laugh on Jan 21. This time around, I sincerely believe the Dems are right on... but can they just stop being pretentious snobs for two months?

     Posted by faromir5 at 08/30/2008 @ 6:28pm

110. ADM - You punted. I've been there (Google), as well as at the archives of the PNAS and NOAA. I've read all four assessment reports of the UN IPCC thoroughly, including both the Summaries for Policymakers and the Scientific chapters (isn't it funny that the political reports come out looong before the science reports noone reads that don't support them?). I doubt you, or anyone on these fora, are even 1% as well-read as I am on the subject of climate and atmospheric science.

     Having researched and drawn my own conclusions, I offered you two simple facts to counter the manure you've gobbled up from Gore and his UN buddies, and possibly from alarmist sites like RealClimate. Hundreds of the most noteworthy scientists in the relevant fields agree with what I'm saying (I'm not offering any original research here), to their great personal loss. But if political bravery doesn't impress you, how much less does scientific bravery?

     Human agriculture and civilization began circa 10K years ago, at the end of the Younger-Dryas cooling event (which made the Little Ice Age look like a cool breeze). Life as we know it depends on the continuation of warming periods such as the one we're enjoying today. They are not to be feared, we should do everything we can to extend and expand them! Unfortunately, our CO2 production won't stave off the next glacial period. Our total annual global emissions comprise less than 3% of the carbon contributions from the seas and rotting biomass.

     I could go on for miles about the General Circulation Models--flawed computer games touted as evidence--but I may need another post to go there. The manipulated feedback formulas alone are a rank betrayal of scientific principles.

     Go right on hating corp America and killing your own job, if you want.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 7:12pm

111. ...maybe you too, can herd goats..

     Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/30/2008 @ 7:53pm

     Dang John. I hate it when you beat around the bush.

     Quit sugar coating things and tell Hooters what you really think.

     Posted by Benchrest at 08/30/2008 @ 8:10pm

112. William Greider doth protest too much.

     She is a better republican choice than Biden is for Obama.

     She at least upholds the mainstream republican values (as twisted as they are) whereas Biden upholds very little of the democratic values (or at least what used to be considered democratic).

     And please don't mention 'experience.' The last thing we need is people with Obama, Biden, or Hillary's experience of acting as corporate shills against the interests of the general public.

     Vote Green Party, vote Nader, vote third party. Don't support the corporate candidates.

     http://www.NotOneMore.US

     Posted by NotOneMore at 08/30/2008 @ 8:19pm

113. Uhm, funny how your amnesia has kicked in when uhm, Nader took GOP and corporate money in 2004 and said he would take it from anyone?

     He is as much a whore as the rest of them. Sorry. He is just not the God you think and want him to be. Judge lest ye be...

     http://www.sfgate.com/ cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive /2004/07/10/MNG9J7JMDK1.DTL

     Also see the LA Times article.

     Posted by Dogtail at 08/30/2008 @ 8:30pm

114. Monoover -

     Your "200%" source claim is false. Do you read sir or are you just arguing with yourself? I said the following about 1 of your 2 sources:

     The very site you reference as a source (http://tinyurl.com/56yblz) to prove your claims, just 2 sources in total by the way, states that human activity is causing global warming.

     Their words: "The annual timeseries illustrates the increase since the 1850s in global mean temperatures. This increase is much larger than the known sources of error. The warming has occurred in two main phases: 1920-40 and particularly since the mid-1970s. Research at the Met Office Hadley Centre using state-of-the-art climate models has shown that this behaviour can only adequately be accounted for by a combination of natural and human factors: the latter dominate.

     Here are some sources for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergovernmental_Panel_on_Climate_Change

     http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/assessments-reports.htm

     http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2008/may/HQ_08127_Nature_Paper.html

     turns out even the Bush run EPA believes climate change/global warming is man caused: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.html

     I can keep giving you sources, but I have a feeling you'll say anything in the service of the GOP. Are you paid by the GOP by any chance to tow this line of trash?

     Even your "straight talker" McCain acknowledges global warming is caused by man-made CO2 pollution.

     I highly encourage you and the GOP to run on your assertion that global warming is a gay-liberal-socialist conspiracy of sorts. Please do it! It would be great. It would reveal you all, "jomama", and the rest as the lunatics you truthfully are. Good day.

     Posted by dnewton at 08/30/2008 @ 8:47pm

115. Manoover -

     As to your laughable assertions that Obama is somehow less qualified than McCain or Palin lets review the following:

     Obama:

     A graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School, where he served as president of the Harvard Law Review, Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1992 to 2004. He announced his campaign for the U.S. Senate in January 2003. He was elected to the Senate in November 2004 with 70% of the vote.

     As a member of the Democratic minority in the 109th Congress, he helped create legislation to control conventional weapons and to promote greater public accountability in the use of federal funds. He also made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. During the 110th Congress, he helped create legislation regarding lobbying and electoral fraud, climate change, nuclear terrorism, and care for returned U.S. military personnel. After announcing his presidential campaign in February 2007, Obama emphasized withdrawing American troops from Iraq, energy independence, decreasing the influence of lobbyists, and promoting universal health care as top national priorities. population of illinoise 12,000,000 population of us: 370,000,000

     Pailin: Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, City Council from 1992 to 1996, and was elected mayor of Wasilla (population just over 5000) twice, in 1996 and 1999. Governor of Alaska from 2006 - present population 600,000

     McCain: voted for the war; supported Bush by his own accounts 95% of the time; picked a vp as a phony political ploy..etc

     Posted by dnewton at 08/30/2008 @ 9:23pm

116. manoover.....the temperature correction is US temps only. Global is still valid AS WAS.

     http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/instrumental.html

     by the way, right now we are in a solar "low" so it SHOULD be cooler. The fact that it is not should be a concern.

     Also, arctic sea ice is going away very quickly http://tinyurl.com/6hm7cu

     ....am I an expert? Not exactly...Asst Prof of Earth & Env Science....so knowledgeable enuff to understand it though

     Posted by leftofcenter at 08/30/2008 @ 10:41pm

117. It's fun to get a rise from the conservatives.

     Your record stands for all to see, it speaks for itself and you certainly don't have a leg to stand on.

     In November you'll be humbled, you know it's going to happen. And like most republicans you are asking yourself, "what the frigg have you done john mccain?"

     But I have to hand it to mccain, he has chosen a running mate that perfectly fits your mold.

     bush/cheney, mccain/palin ... you guys have come a long way. That this is the best you can serve up after 8 years of TOTAL failure is a "hoot".

     Please, have a seat in the back of the bus.

     Posted by Hoot at 08/30/2008 @ 11:39pm

118. dnewton, I applaud you on a slight elevation in tone, and for your beginning research. Since you found the IPCC Assessment Reports, I'll point out a curio in the fourth and latest: the forecasts for global temp and sea-level rises are the lowest and least alarming in the body's history (they've been lowering steadily since the 1st AR, due to contradiction by reality), yet the summary for policymakers (crafted by govt reps in debate sessions) contain the most alarming language to date about the future impacts and the certainty of human cause. This is the "consensus" process, which is political and not scientific.

     The IPCC uses several models; their outputs were called "forecasts" in the 1st AR, then termed "scenarios" in the 2nd and 3rd ARs, and are now labeled "storylines" in the 4th AR. None of these hugely complex models produces consistent results; they vary wildly from run to run. Variance is excused as initialization errors (problems in guessing the right starting conditions), and is addressed by running the model 100s of times and averaging the results. If you know statistics, you might see a convergence problem here. Simply, if value A=1 and value B=100, assigning significance to a mean value of 50 is problematic. Today, no model can reproduce past climate as known from ice-core data and other proxies, probably because of what we don't know yet. In 2000, continental ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica were factored in for the first time. Today, there's still no good factoring of clouds, and solar variance is ignored. The real problem: the models, built to test AGW theory, assume that carbon controls global T; now noone will discard the theory, and the evidence is assumed to be faulty or incomplete. The model has become the proof.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/30/2008 @ 11:52pm

119. I am writing this as a concerned citizen of the united states of America. This years election is one of the most important of our time. The next administration needs to move this country in a new direction. The decision that John McCain made yesterday to chose Sarah Palin shows how out of touch he is with the country. she is under investigation for the misuse of the power of her office. This is the same thing that vice president Chaney has been doing for the last eight years. Are we the people going to take the chance that this could continue with McCain's administration? It is bad enough she does not have any national security experiences. She has never meet with one world leader. We do not even know if she knows there names. To put some one on the ticket that is under investigation for the same things that Chaney's office has done is just pathetic. Does McCain and his staff really think the American people are this stupid?? I also think there is a few personal issues with this pick but I will keep those comments to myself. I am voting for senator Obama but I think this decision by senator McCain call's in question his incompetence and sanity. She also lied yesterday about the bridge to nowhere she was for it until she found out they would have to fund some of it and she keep the money given for the bridge. I am going to include a few statements I found while investigating this pick and web sites where I found this information and a lot more issues in question.

     Ms. Palin acknowledged that there were more than two dozen inquiries to the public safety department from members of her staff about Wooten.Palin replaced Monegan with Chuck Kopp. Kopp had been previously suspended and investigated for sexual harassment of an employee. At the time, Palin said she believed that

     Posted by Eaglesnest at 08/31/2008 @ 12:16am

120. What is the right wing's problem with clean air and water. Even if global warming were a complete fiction is there some really good side to pollution I'm not seeing here.

     I know some snake oil salesman on WPR the other day was claiming that since plants process carbon dioxide it was a good thing that it is being pumped out in massive amounts. Of course those of us living on actual farms look at the brown trees next to busy sections of the interstate and wonder how that's working out.

     Besides, I like quiet. We sat in the middle of the Paw Paw, Illinois wind field and it was like listening to the surf-very pleasant. With an electric car no engine noise, with solar heat well, still the fan so you have me on that one, but I'm enough of a cheapskate to appreciate free sun.

     If the point is to reduce our dependence on imported energy then everything should be on the table. If the point is to make a few people very rich revisit oil.

     BTW the snakeoil salesman also said clean burnig coal was a winner. Might not cause much pollution when it burns but has he ever seen them flatten a mountain to mine the stuff? Lots of huge machines burning diesel 24/7. That can't be good.

     Posted by Pogge at 08/31/2008 @ 12:53am

121. If McCain thought women would be impressed with his choice, he is sadly mistaken.

     We know Hillary Clinton and she is no Hillary Clinton! Check her out trying to give Hillary hints on how to deal with the media and the candidates:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA15XU23kEc&feature=email

     All he did was verify the fact that men like him think women are too dumb to vote for what they believe in and are nothing more than superficial individuals with nothing better to do than follow a fool like him. Does he think we are without principles? Does he think that his own party would not be upset at the possibility of this unqualified lady becoming the president of the most powerful nation in the world and he didn't care? Who goes from PTA President to Vice President of the United States without ever visiting the other 49 states?

     Posted by Tasia at 08/31/2008 @ 01:25am

122. I wouldn't even call this a Hail Mary pass. A Hail Mary pass is dictated by the circumstances. You're a touchdown or less away from tying or winning the game. The clock is running out. Your're fifty yards away from the endzone. What do you do? Duh. You throw this into the endzone.

     No this is not a Hail Mary pass. A Hail Mary pass is neither bad nor good. Its merely indicated by the reality of the situation. No this is worse. This is like being down 17-7 in the first quarter of a game. You have the ball, fourth and seven on your opponents 35 yard line, and instead of going for a field goal or punting, you fake a punt, go for first down, and have your pass intercepted and run back for a touchdown. No, this is not a Hail Mary.

     It's simply a bonehead mistake.

     It's neither good nor bad. It's bad, bad bad….and stuipd.

     Good riddance, Republicans.

     Posted by bobforer at 08/31/2008 @ 02:19am

123. Prof. leftofcenter: nice catch, and it was improper for me to chide MET-O's chart over Hansen's mistake. I'm aggrieved that Hansen--the scientific godfather of AGW alarmism--won't share his algorithms publicly. Gore got a lot of mileage out of his mistake, and a blogger had to reverse engineer his outputs before he deigned to dispatch a colleague to offer the corrected data.

     Pogge: CO2 is not pollution. It's a colorless, odorless trace gas (0.03%) in our atmosphere that happens to be the foundation of the food chain. By all means let's conserve, and continue our global leadership in reducing particulates and aerosols. But sinking the US economy by insisting on a panic-stop to fossil fuel use on the basis of bad "settled" science is insupportable. Proposals for an international cap-and-trade system will send large amounts of US money to all corners of the world. I have a problem with that. And if we all start driving nifty electric cars, we're going to need more nuclear power, at least in the medium term...unless you think omnipresent windmills are attractive. We have 10B barrels in ANWR 1002, 100B+ barrels on the coastal shelves, and 65% of the world's oil shale centralized in the Rocky Mountains (which will yield oil amounting to 300% of the world's known crude reserves, and which can now be retrieved without mining). Call it a stopgap towards future renewables. I disagree with him on AGW, but McCain's energy plan will provide millions of unexportable jobs almost immediately for collars of all colors, improve our trade balance, solve the energy crisis, and instantly fix our economy. Obama has said he likes high fuel prices, as long as they rise gradually: that's AGW nonsense talking.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 02:19am

124. I enjoyed reading the piece and agree wholeheartedly. However, I was surprised by the error that slipped by the editor. "So weak they decided to throw a forty-year Hail Mary pass and hope audaciously for a lucky catch." is a sentence fragment. I know, I know, I'm overly picky, but am I the only one who cares about good grammar anymore?

     Posted by tje-bms at 08/31/2008 @ 02:36am

125. Eaglesnest: Before implying that Palin's concern about Trooper Wooten was somehow rooted in personal vindictiveness, you should know more about who you're defending:

     http://tinyurl.com/5vv82d

     Ever hear of the Lautenberg amendment? Among other offenses you can read about in my link, Wooten tasered his 11-year-old stepson. Domestic abuse perpetrators don't get to own or carry guns. The fact that he was permitted to stay on the job was plenty good reason to fire his boss.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 02:36am

126. More AGW stuff for dnewton and other interested parties:

     "Falsification of the Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within the Frame of Physics (July 2007)"

     http://tinyurl.com/yr3mtk

     "The Acquittal of Carbon Dioxide (October 2006)" [be sure to click the top link for a shredding of an attempted rebuttal by Gavin Schmidt of RealClimate]

     http://tinyurl.com/2jcuyu

     The science is NOT settled. But it's getting there, and it looks good for the AGW skeptics.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 02:49am

127. Also for dnewton: Obama's personal academic achievements are commendable. I'll depart from your admiration for his 2004 election and his recent campaign promises, and I'll continue asserting that his work in the Senate (and earlier for his consituents in the Hyde Park district) doesn't amount to much. He's largely ridden on other people's work.

     Impress me with your probity. Take your favorite piece of "his" legislation from that list of yours (obama.com?). Tell me the practical effect it has had for Americans in nuts-and-bolts terms. How tough was it for him?

     Palin auctioned her official jet and returned the money to the state treasury. She fought Big Oil corruption, and cut $1200 checks to all state residents from the increased tax revenues. In 2 years, she's gotten traction on a $40B natural gas pipeline project that her predecessor spent 12 years talking about.

     McCain led the Gang of 14 against his Republican-majority leadership. McCain-Feingold was 7 years of toil on campaign finance reform, against fierce GOP-majority fire (we now know the Obama money machine doesn't truly care about this issue). McCain-Kennedy, a failed immigration reform effort at severe political cost (well, not for Kennedy). McCain-Obama would have been strict ethics reform after the Abramoff scandal, until Obama heard Reid's whistle and split to help with the weaker partisan version. In the Senate, there ARE leaders, but there are many more followers. Guess where Obama fits?

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 04:17am

128. The fact that he was permitted to stay on the job was plenty good reason to fire his boss.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 02:36am | ignore this person | warn this person

     Incorrect. The thrust of the article that you cited was that he had disciplinary issues but they weren't sufficient grounds for termination--unless, apparently, you have issues with the governor's sister.

     Your reference to the Lautenberg amendment is flawed as well. It only applies to persons convicted of domestic violence.

     Posted by brunowe at 08/31/2008 @ 06:34am

129. Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 02:49am | ignore this person | warn this person

     Doesn't seem that either of these have been published in a peer-reviewed journal. Re the second link.

     "Dr. Glassman has a BS, MS, and PhD from the UCLA Engineering Department of Systems Science, specializing in electronics, applied mathematics, applied physics, communication and information theory. For more than half of three decades at Hughes Aircraft Company he was Division Chief Scientist for Missile Development and Microelectronics Systems Divisions, responsible for engineering, product line planning, and IR&D."

     In short, he doesn't seem to have the background in the applicable disciplines. Has had neither an academic appointment nor any work-related experience that ties into the subject.

     The people you cite are much like the "experts" cited by 9/11 conspiracy-mongers in that respect.

     Posted by brunowe at 08/31/2008 @ 06:41am

130. Manoover-

     Your claims that global warming is a socialist-liberal conspiracy are ridiculous. I have given you sources and all you do is respond with fringe sources well out of the mainstream of scientific thought. You and your project are a fraud. Your arguments and sources only operate to create the appearance of serious scholarship. You can put lipstick on a pig all you want sir, but in the end its still a pig!

     Please encourage the GOP to run on this ridiculous assertion that global warming is a socialist-liberal conspiracy! Please I beg you! Do it! Its great!

     As to the pig that is your argument about McCain's nobleness? Who are you trying to fool? Do you think the world has not been paying attention over the last 8 years to the dismal failure of the Bush Administration as well as his crony rubber stamp republican congress? Including Mr. McCain. Who by the way voted against the Martin Luther King holiday; voted for the war; was against oil drilling before he was for it; was against Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy before he was for it; was for immigration reform before he was against it in - There's your maverick and straight talker in action sir; 2008: McCain sides with Bush in a failed effort to stop a GI bill that will expand GI benefits; 2005: McCain Voted to Cut Billions from Medicare and Medicaid; 1995: McCain Voted to Drastically Cut Health Care for Children; Senator McCain praised President Bush on his leadership on the Iraq war and said, "I think the president has led with great clarity and I think he's done a great job leading the country, don't you all?"; McCain has supported Bush policies 95% of the time - policies that have been a disaster. To maintain that McCain is "the change we need" is to have been living in an alternate world.

     Posted by dnewton at 08/31/2008 @ 11:32am

131. Manoover-

     What it comes down to is this and its actually really simple:

     I have a MAJORITY scientific consensus backing my position that global warming is in fact not a socialist-liberal conspiracy as you claim, but is CAUSED BY MAN-MADE POLLUTION.

     All you have are a few contradictory fringe sources that you source zealously as though you have engaged in some kind of serious scholarship on the matter.

     Others, as well as I have pointed out contradictions in the few sources you offer.

     Seems to me sir that for your outlandish claims your going to have to offer more than fringe science and little fake plastic aphorisms, about how the lone scientist will always trump "the establishment", in order to reverse a MAJORITY scientific consensus.

     Posted by dnewton at 08/31/2008 @ 11:51am

132. Manoover -

     Your question: "Impress me with your probity. Take your favorite piece of "his" legislation from that list of yours (obama.com?). Tell me the practical effect it has had for Americans in nuts-and-bolts terms. How tough was it for him?"

     Answer: The State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) is a United States federal government program that gives funds to states in order to provide health insurance to families with children. The "program was designed to cover uninsured children in families with incomes that are modest but too high to qualify for Medicaid.

     Answer: The Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007 (Pub.L. 110-81, 121 Stat. 735, enacted 2007-09-14) is a law of the United States federal government that amended parts of the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995. It strengthens public disclosure requirements concerning lobbying activity and funding, places more restrictions on gifts for members of Congress and their staff, and provides for mandatory disclosure of earmarks in expenditure bills. [1]

     Your points: "Palin auctioned her official jet and returned the money to the state treasury. She fought Big Oil corruption, and cut $1200 checks to all state residents from the increased tax revenues. In 2 years, she's gotten traction on a $40B natural gas pipeline project that her predecessor spent 12 years talking about."

     Boy, auctioning that jet and fighting against "BIG OIL" almost make up for the fact that she believes, like you do, that global warming is not manmade. And it almost makes up for the fact that she believes creationism should be taught in public schools; it almost makes for the fact that she wants to get Polar Bears kicked off the endangered species list so she can mine their habitat for fossil fuels...great energy policy

     Posted by dnewton at 08/31/2008 @ 12:06pm

133. Manoover-

     As I said before: How much is the GOP paying you to surf liberal blogs and proliferate this disinformation?

     I mean to the casual reader I can almost see how your outlandish claims might seem at least backed up by some modicum of research, when in fact they are not.

     Is that your cheap political ploy here sir? Merely to promulgate McCain-Palin talking points at the behest of your masters and to proliferate dis-information to the casual reader on a liberal blog?

     Much like that cheap political ploy of McCain to pick Palin as his VP? Again your "Maverick" in action. Proving he'll do anything to get elected!

     Posted by dnewton at 08/31/2008 @ 12:19pm

134. I have to agree with those who think Palin's selection for VP wasn't a "Hail Mary pass" but more likely Karl Rove's most brilliant maneuver yet. Rove (or whoever is behind her selection) would like you to think it was just an act of desperation on McCain's part, but it seems far too calculated for that: (1) Democrats cannot raise the issue of her inexperience without having Obama's inexperience thrown back in their faces. (2) When expectations are low, even a mediocre performance on her part in the debate with Biden will be seen as a triumph. If she performs well (and my guess is that she's a quick study who's already hitting the books), then it will be perceived as an overwhelming win for her ("Hockey mom from Alaska out-debates senator with decades of experience!"). (3) Her social and fiscal conservatism will draw the conservative republican base back into the fold. (4) She fits the "reality TV" mode of seemingly everything these days where ordinary people suddenly are in the spotlight ("Hockey mom from Alaska gets the nod for VP!") and will appeal to voters who feel candidates should be someone they'd like to drink a beer with or go fishing with. (5) At the moment, most Americans favor more domestic drilling for oil--the fact that she's from an energy state and is as eager as anyone to open ANWR to drilling will sit well with people who have suffered economically from high fuel prices as well as those who think it's their god-given right to drive their Hummers, climate be damned. (6) It would not surprise me at all if the media treat her with kid gloves. When she hits their softball questions out of the park, we'll be told that there's a lot more of substance to this hockey mom then we thought at first glance. Given how the media treated Hillary, the positive treatmen

     Posted by bigskybluebird at 08/31/2008 @ 12:25pm

135. Given how the media treated Hillary, the positive treatment I expect the media to give Palin will elevate her even further in the eyes of the voters she's meant to appeal to. (7) The timing of the announcement also seemed too well-calculated to fit with McCain's generally doddering campaign strategy. The media should have been abuzz with coverage of the historic moment when Obama accepted his party's nomination for President. Instead, every broadcast I saw or heard opened with reporting about Palin's selection.

     Only someone like Karl Rove (or someone of his ilk), who cares solely about the game of politics and not about governance for the common good, could have engineered a selection both so politically brilliant and so recklessly dangerous to the nation.

     As someone else pointed out, misunderestimate her at your own peril.

     Posted by bigskybluebird at 08/31/2008 @ 12:27pm

136. "A changing environment will affect Alaska more than any other state, because of our location. I'm not one though who would attribute it to being man-made," Palin said in the interview, which was posted online Friday.

     http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/08/palin-global-wa.html

     Posted by dnewton at 08/31/2008 @ 12:29pm

137. bigskybluebird

     yep.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 08/31/2008 @ 1:45pm

138. I had a lot of time on my hands yesterday, and am busier today. But I don't want to "seagull," so I'll provide some quick responses. Part 1:

     brunowe - Lautenberg can also apply in cases of court order, which can result from mere allegation. Knowing of this taser incident without taking action could potentially expose the state to legal liability. Never mind that Wooten drank on the job and threatened to shoot the Gov's father in the head. Besides the litany of charges that led to his suspension (gotta hand it to the union, here) 2 years ago, there's 2 years of record under seal leading up to this case. You don't know the story and are jumping to conclusions. What you can read should give you pause.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 5:29pm

139. brunowe and dnewton - I presented those links as interesting and rather fresh material about CO2. They're good science presented simply. Did you read any of it? It's hard to tell, since you only responded with attempts to discredit the sources.

     Unfortunately, this is the standard response from the AGW quarter. You don't attack the arguments. It matters not that Dr. Glassman is a PhD with 5 cross specialties from a school of systems science, with career work in aerospace. He doesn't carry the IPCC stamp of approval, so he's automatically wrong (even though he STUFFED Schmidt's rebuttal--and I presume Schmidt is OK with you). On the other hand, do I win the argument if I point out that the chief scientist at IPCC is an Economist by training? I didn't think so.

     Please think for yourselves for a few minutes every day. Read the stuff, and tell me what you think.

     Ever hear of Richard Lindzen? How about Chris Landsea? These are Science Leaders with sterling credentials who have been ruined for speaking truth to power. I have many, many more names and ideas I could share with you, but you might bring down the sourcewatch site in your efforts to repeat how they're mere shills to big oil. Suffice to say, if you think any "science is settled," it's only because you don't want to talk about it anymore.

     And no, I'm not employed by anyone's campaign or committee.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 5:50pm

140. So Palin thinks global climate change isn't anthropogenically influenced and believes in creationism as a "theory" to be taught along with real science. If they do manage to get elected we will deserve, once again, the ridicule for electing brainless boobs (all 4 of them - him, her and, well "hers") AGAIN.

     Posted by leftofcenter at 08/31/2008 @ 8:00pm

141. Palin investigation info on local AK TV channel 11

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJ-MHz90TY

     Posted by leftofcenter at 08/31/2008 @ 8:13pm

142. Please think for yourselves for a few minutes every day. Read the stuff, and tell me what you think.

     Ever hear of Richard Lindzen? How about Chris Landsea? These are Science Leaders with sterling credentials who have been ruined for speaking truth to power. I have many, many more names and ideas I could share with you, but you might bring down the sourcewatch site in your efforts to repeat how they're mere shills to big oil. Suffice to say, if you think any "science is settled," it's only because you don't want to talk about it anymore.

     And no, I'm not employed by anyone's campaign or committee.

     Posted by man00ver at 08/31/2008 @ 5:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Ah, but Richard Lindzen is. I could see where you'd try to gloss over that Lindzen is on Big Oil's payroll while Landsea hasn't challenged AGW but only whether it is tied to an increase in hurricane frequency. Incidentally, your claim that either of them have been ruined is hogwash.

     Your claim that this is some kind of socialist plot speaks volumes about where you're coming from on this issue.

     Posted by brunowe at 08/31/2008 @ 8:43pm

143. b"runowe - Lautenberg can also apply in cases of court order, which can result from mere allegation. Knowing of this taser incident without taking action could potentially expose the state to legal liability"

     The court order didn't happen either, so Lautenberg is still irrelevant.

     "You don't know the story and are jumping to conclusions. What you can read should give you pause."

     Actually, the story is that his actions were not consider to be worthy of termination. Please point to any other case where Palin exercised this much interest in a personnel decision.

     Posted by brunowe at 08/31/2008 @ 8:51pm

144. "Dr. Glassman is a PhD with 5 cross specialties from a school of systems science, with career work in aerospace. He doesn't carry the IPCC stamp of approval, so he's automatically wrong (even though he STUFFED Schmidt's rebuttal--and I presume Schmidt is OK with you). On the other hand, do I win the argument if I point out that the chief scientist at IPCC is an Economist by training? I didn't think so."

     The difference is that Glassman's is putting his own expertise behind this paper and that fact is that nothing in his background suggests that he is qualified to do so. You still haven't indicated if this paper has gotten into any peer-reviewed journal.

     The chief scientist at IPCC is an economist, but the IPCC is a group effort that doesn't just depend on his expertise.

     Again, your claim of a conspiracy behind the work on AGW, your championing of a fringe element of scientists and your claim that they are somehow being persecuted is exactly parallel to the methods of the "government did 9/11" crowd.

     Posted by brunowe at 08/31/2008 @ 9:11pm

145. Clearly, the choice of Palin for the VP spot was a desperate effort to get the evangelical wing of the party energized and involved in McCain's flagging campaign. Gay marriage and abortion don't seem to be the drawing cards that they once were, and the McCain camp felt that placing a real, live fundamentalist on the ticket might shake these voters up. That it may do, but it will drive many more non-fundamentalists in the opposite direction.

     What this move shows clearly is that McCain is a man of poor judgement on matters of vital importance. Was his judgement always poor, or is it now poor as a result of mild cognitive impairment? Probably, it is some of both.

     Posted by robgo2 at 08/31/2008 @ 9:49pm

146. Polls are way off. Obama will win with a landslide. Polls that are taken over phones do not take into consideration that cell phone are the choice of most young Americans today. Cells are not polled. If polled that crowd which consists largley of the young voters will vote mostly for Obama. The Young voters can see through McCain and are a lot smarter then some think. You will see what I mean when the votes start to tally up that History making Tuesday eve. I predict it to even have a sooner projected win for Obama now that Sarah has been chosen as VP.

     Posted by CanuStillhearme at 08/31/2008 @ 10:19pm

147. Posted by CanuStillhearme at 08/31/2008 @ 10:19pm

     Yes, I heard someone the other day talking about an new poll done via cell and email and it was way different.

     Posted by leftofcenter at 08/31/2008 @ 11:17pm