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RedditPhil Gramm, the senator-banker who until recently advised John McCain's campaign, did get it right about a "nation of whiners," but he misidentified the faint-hearted. It's not the people or even the politicians. It is Wall Street--the financial titans and big-money bankers, the most important investors and worldwide creditors who are scared witless by events. These folks are in full-flight panic and screaming for mercy from Washington, Their cries were answered by the massive federal bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac, the endangered mortgage companies.
When the monied interests whined, they made themselves heard by dumping the stocks of these two quasi-public private corporations, threatening to collapse the two financial firms like the investor "run" that wiped out Bear Stearns in March. The real distress of the banks and brokerages and major investors is that they cannot unload the rotten mortgage securities packaged by Fannie Mae and banks sold worldwide. Wall Street's preferred solution: dump the bad paper on the rest of us, the unwitting American taxpayers.
The Bush crowd, always so reluctant to support federal aid for mere people, stepped up to the challenge and did as it was told. Treasury Secretary Paulson (ex-Goldman Sachs) and his sidekick, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, announced their bailout plan on Sunday to prevent another disastrous selloff on Monday when markets opened. Like the first-stage rescue of Wall Street's largest investment firms in March, this bold stroke was said to benefit all of us. The whole kingdom of American high finance would tumble down if government failed to act or made the financial guys pay for their own reckless delusions. Instead, dump the losses on the people.
Democrats who imagine they may find some partisan advantage in these events are deeply mistaken. The Democratic party was co-author of the disaster we are experiencing and its leaders fell in line swiftly. House banking chair, Rep. Barney Frank, announced he could have the bailout bill on President Bush's desk next week. No need to confuse citizens by dwelling on the details. Save Wall Street first. Maybe lowbrow citizens won't notice it's their money.
We are witnessing a momentous event--the great deflation of Wall Street--and it is far from over. The crash of IndyMac is just the beginning. More banks will fail, so will many more debtors. The crisis has the potential to transform American politics because, first it destroys a generation of ideological bromides about free markets, and, second, because it makes visible the ugly power realities of our deformed democracy. Democrats and Republicans are bipartisan in this crisis because they have colluded all along over thirty years in creating the unregulated financial system and mammoth mega-banks that produced the phony valuations and deceitful assurances. The federal government protects the most powerful interests from the consequences of their plundering. It prescribes "market justice" for everyone else.
Of course, the federal government has to step up to the crisis, but the crucial question is how government can respond in the broad public interest. Bernanke knows the history of the last great deflation in the 1930s--better known as the Great Depression--and so he is determined to intervene swiftly, as the Federal Reserve failed to do in that earlier crisis. By pumping generous loans and liquidity into the system, the Fed chairman hopes to calm the market fears and reverse the panic. So far, he has failed. I think he will continue to fail because he has not gone far enough.
If Washington wants real results, it has to abandon the wishful posture that is simply helping the private firms get over their fright. The government must instead act decisively to take charge in more convincing ways. That means acknowledging to the general public the depth of the national crisis and the need for more dramatic interventions.
Instead of propping up Fannie Mae or others, the threatened firm should be formally nationalized as a nonprofit federal agency performing valuable services for the housing market. That is the real consequence anyway if the taxpayers have to buy up $300 billion in stock.
The private shareholders "are walking dead men, muerto," Institutional Risk Analytics, a private banking monitor, observed. Make them eat their losses, the sooner the better. The real national concern should be focused on the major creditors who lend to Fannie Mae and other US agencies as well as private financial firms. They include China, Japan and other foreign central banks. Foreign investors hold about 21 percent of the long-term debt paper issued by US government agencies--$376 billion in China, $229 billion in Japan.
It is not in our national interest to burn these nations with heavy losses. On the contrary, we need to sustain their good regard because they can help us recover by bailing out the US economy with more lending. If these foreign creditors turn away and stop their lending now, the US economy is toast and won't soon recover.
Americans should forget about whining; it's too late for that. People need to get angry--really, really angry--and take it out on both parties. What the country needs right now is a few more politicians in Washington with the guts to stand up and tell us the hard truth about out situation. It will be painful to hear. They will be denounced as "whiners." But truth might be our only way out.
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yup. no role for a strong, fair, independent federal government on wall street! just a cabal of detached duty investors rubber stamping and other way looking while a few make a killin'.
and we the tax payers pay the bail out bill.
nice.
how bout a bail bond? anyone commit any crimes?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/14/2008 @ 12:45pm
Ahh corporate welfare. The beauty of the extreme right is they don't realize they are just as socialist as the extreme left. They believe in bailouts for corporations just not the common man. Because the common man isn't even a blip on the radar. Only the people who can afford to have lobbyists matter.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
Investors eat losses?
You're joking. Not if they're big investors.
The new American capitalism = privatize profits, socialize losses.
Dems & GOP reach a consensus on this much ... isn't pleasing?
Obama will be no different from Bush or Clinton or Reagan on this.
Posted by sloper at 07/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
"Maybe lowbrow citizens won't notice it's their money."
but it's NOT their money.
it's NOBODY'S.
(or the CHINESE'S, if you prefer)
it's PAPER, nothing more.
heck, it's not even paper anymore.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 1:05pm
"pumping generous loans and liquidity into the system"
in other words,
print more "money".
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 1:07pm
"Foreign investors hold about 21 percent of the US government long-term debt."
true,
BUT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT <B>ITSELF</B> OWNS MORE THAN HALF THE DEBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's truly insane.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 1:09pm
"Therefore I will not keep silent;
I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit,
I will complain in the bitterness of my soul."
-- god --
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 1:13pm
Whoa! We have problems, but the sky is not falling! Fanny and Freddy do 30 yr. loans, and they are not in trouble. While I don' t buy individual stocks, I would buy Fanny and Freddy's stock now if I was into investing. There are federal regulations in place, that can take care of the situation, but the big problem with them is that the the decision on when and if they should be used, was left up to the Chairman of the Federal Reserve. Thirty Year loans should be mandated by law and not left up to some idiot who thinks business people know what the are doing. What we need is traditional Progressive measures that regulate business practices, because Laisse-faire Capitalism and Free Trade are anarchistic. The rule of law applies to everyone By the way, you cannot regulate international business practice! Individual and economically independent countries can regulate business practices within their own countries.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 07/14/2008 @ 1:53pm
Interesting numbers from The Nation: Top 5 corporate CEO's combined income - $290,456,558; Top five hedge-fund managers combined income - $12,600,000,000.
And then there's John Paulson, former employee of Bear Stearns who in '07 and early '08 made $3 billion shorting subprime mortgages. (Name familiar? Henry Paulson is Treasury Secretary.)
Given that America's 400 highest-earning taxpayers in '05 paid only 18.2 percent of their income in federal taxes their contribution to their own bail-out will be miniscule compared to the rest of us.
Given Washington's complicity in the drive to enrich the already rich this country has become an industrial autocracy.
Posted by felicity at 07/14/2008 @ 2:03pm
I'm sypathetic to the idea of nationalizing these institutions and for the reasons the author gives. All the more reason for sane progressives to support Nader instead of the candidate of the party that rushed to get the bill signed. The next and final step in this circus is the failure of the dollar to maintain its position as the world's reserve currency. The United States does not have the horses to prevent that from happening and you can thank the two-headed reptile that runs things here for that. The McBamas and the OCains are simply the stephin fetchits the system now puts before you to perpetuate the mismanagement. You need to get outside the box.
Posted by john lowell at 07/14/2008 @ 2:13pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
Ccomfo1, I don't think there is any difference between the right and left extremes. Neither is about the common man. Neither respects liberty.
Our freedom is an illusion really. Has been for a long time.
Posted by ginza00 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:07pm
Ccomfo1, I don't think there is any difference between the right and left extremes. Neither is about the common man. Neither respects liberty.
Posted by ginza00 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:07pm
The extreme right wants facism. The extreme left wants Anarchy. It's ridiculous.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:25pm
"Americans should forget about whining; it's too late for that. People need to get angry--really, really angry--and take it out on both parties. What the country needs right now is a few more politicians in Washington with the guts to stand up and tell us the hard truth about out situation."
~William Greider
Absolutely on target. Thanks!
And while we're at it The Nation has a responsibilty to rescind their endorsement of Barack Obama --not as a sour grapes move, but because it's the right thing to do.
Obama is practically a shoe-in at this point to win the White House.
If progressives don't voice their outright dismay and anger at Obama's recent hard right turn we'll have primarily ourselves to blame for a presidency that limps into the Oval office with a badly wounded and ineffectual agenda.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:25pm
Our freedom is an illusion really. Has been for a long time.
Posted by ginza00 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:07pm
maybe,
but it's still better many other illusions available globally.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 3:26pm
If progressives don't voice their outright dismay and anger at Obama's recent hard right turn we'll have primarily ourselves to blame for a presidency that limps into the Oval office with a badly wounded and ineffectual agenda. Posted by b_kool_66 at 07/14/2008 @ 3:25pm
Quite. But progressives won't be primarily to blame.
We nonetheless should shout.
If we wish to have more influence on the next president/neo-emperor, flood your Congressmen & senators now with demands for impeachment hearings.
Don't allow criminal behavior to stand as acceptable precedent..
Posted by sloper at 07/14/2008 @ 3:34pm
The sad part of all this is that, with a few brave individuals, all our politicians are guilty of allowing this to happen by legalizing what was originally criminal behavior. When John Edwards tried to warn us, but we allowed the great American press to create this false outrage about his 400.00 hair cut while we are paying for the billion dollars of stupid war and the crazy; Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubine economics. These two geniuses produce and encouraged the greatest shill game and pyramid scheme ever seen on the face of this planet. Old crazy Gramm is the least of this criminal crowd. He is really only an insignificant player. The wall street crowd, who Obama is courting, is busy selling all the sweat equity that our parents put into the country. Pickens is right this is the greatest transfer of wealth ever seen in the history of mankind, all, while we trust the wall street crowd to deal us a fair hand. All the cards in the deck are marked.
Posted by julien38 at 07/14/2008 @ 4:08pm
WHINERS!!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/14/2008 @ 4:26pm
Didn't the taxpayers have to bail out the savings and loan industry under another republican administration and wasn't McCain involved in some way. Sure gives ma a warm fuzzy about seeing the republicans in the white house for four more years.
Posted by drkenne at 07/14/2008 @ 8:32pm
bail out the savings and loan industry under another republican administration
Posted by drkenne at 07/14/2008 @ 8:32pm
i believe, however, that the problem originated in the carter administration's deregulation.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 9:31pm
People expect the next President of the United States to "fix" the financial system, but Congress is not controlled by the President, it is controlled by the lobbyists. Whomever, through their lobbyists, pays the most money to the legislators (notice I didn't say "our legislators") gets what they want, whether are investment bankers, commercial bankers, stock brokers, or other moneyed interests.
Republican and Democratic legislators passed the laws that have weakened the American financial system because it benefited them; they got more campaign financing from the folks who want on return on their investment. So which of these two parties would you expect will change its ways and fix the system? My guess - neither. Neither has a leader with the foresight and the will and political skill to unite the various factions to bring about such monumental change.
The American dream is dimming. In 20 years the United States will become like England after the end of WW II, a once great nation with diminished power and little influence in the world.
Prepare ...
Posted by bcodding at 07/14/2008 @ 9:45pm
"Fannie and Freddie support $5,300bn (€3,330bn, £2,655bn) of mortgage credits with only $81bn of capital."
wow.
that's like me saying,
"hey, i've got a buck. can you lend me 65? i'll pay you back........
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/14/2008 @ 9:57pm
It's clear that banking regulation is required. At least some "RULES"... I could be wrong but I suspect banks were encouraged by government regulators to give loans to people who didn't qualify. Maybe is was political pressure for some social agenda. At any rate we are all going to pay big time, much like the Savings & Loan debacle - I thought we had learned our lesson. I guess when things are going well, humans get a little carried away and pretty soon...disaster.
Posted by pyeatte at 07/14/2008 @ 11:02pm
We need a major change in policy, away from the deregulation and "free market" policies of the past 30 years. I just don't see any politician in sight with a chance of being elected president ( which means getting past the gatekeepers on Wall Street and in the case of Obama, their idiot or corrupt enablers in the "progressive media") who has the vision, fortitude and motivation to depart from business as usual. Perhaps it will take a catastrophic breakdown to cause a serious course correction, but even that may not work because people are too stupid and the labor and consumer markets are now globalized to the point where the ruling class of this country no longer needs the American consumer or worker as much as it did 70 years ago. The US population will become just another impoverished population in the global market system, ruled by a rich oligarchy that get's away with murder.
Posted by wgilwood at 07/14/2008 @ 11:12pm
As someone who's a shareholder in one of the big banks on Wall Street (the one with the least exposure to sub-prime), I'm hoping for some kind of taxpayer rescue plan, so that my stock can get back on track.
The thought that some of you here will have to pay additional taxes so that my bank will be cushioned from any post-subprime down draft tickles my funny bone no end.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/14/2008 @ 11:23pm
"With an explicit guarantee from the government, the two GSEs can continue to operate indefinitely with inadequate capital."
well, lucky them.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 12:02am
In 20 years the United States will become like England after the end of WW II, a once great nation with diminished power and little influence in the world. Prepare ... Posted by bcodding at 07/14/2008 @ 9:45pm |
Alas, 'tis true, 'tis true.
And if Obama were to dare to try to slow - or worse, reverse - this process, the hired slimers in the "progressive" media, like the New Yorker, will be on the job to do The Owners' bidding, slapping the uppity one back down in his place.
But in the unlikely event that it doesn't work, The Owners have other ways of getting their way. None less than the NYTimes wrote, on its front page no less, many months ago, of the possible assassination of Obama. Never a mention of a similar fate for a Clinton.
Obama gets the message, loud & clear.
Posted by sloper at 07/15/2008 @ 12:30am
Thank you! It is extremely gratifying to read ideas that reinforce your own thoughts - it's validating.
I agree, nationalize Fannie Mae and Freddy. It is our money anyway. Why is our money, my annual salary which is pocket change to these CEOs, being used to bail out Wall Street's reckless behavior, yet my money isn't used to contribute to a quality universal health insurance program, a guaranteed student loan for my son, or a subsidy to help heat my home this winter.
This is absurd. My elected government answers only to wealth and the Party, and shows complete indifference towards me and the other 95 percent of Americans. The Bush administration has used power to pillage the tax payers to pad the pockets of corporate cronies - themselves.
Wake up America. This is our country, our wealth, our airways and highways. Why are we allowing our tax dollars to subsidize the rich and powerful while we figure out how to heat our home and stay away from the doctor out of financial fear?
I say nationalize Freddy and Fannie along with the airlines and the oil companies...ewww how revolutionary. I may be getting monitored.
Insane! It is insane.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:19am
Obama gets the message, loud & clear.
Posted by sloper at 07/15/2008 @ 12:30am |
Touche -
It doesn't help knowing there is a well funded radical right wing mercenary army in our midst. I hope they are nationalized, too. My tax dollars are paying for a group of highly compensated well armed thugs - pretty damn scary.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:34am
Obama gets the message, loud & clear.
Posted by sloper at 07/15/2008 @ 12:30am |
Touche -
It doesn't help knowing there is a well funded radical right wing mercenary army in our midst. I hope they are nationalized, too. My tax dollars are paying for a group of highly compensated well armed thugs - pretty damn scary.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:34am
Obama gets the message, loud & clear.
Posted by sloper at 07/15/2008 @ 12:30am |
Touche -
It doesn't help knowing there is a well funded radical right wing mercenary army in our midst. I hope they are nationalized, too. My tax dollars are paying for a group of highly compensated well armed thugs - pretty damn scary.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:35am
Obama gets the message, loud & clear.
Posted by sloper at 07/15/2008 @ 12:30am |
Touche -
It doesn't help knowing there is a well funded radical right wing mercenary army in our midst. I hope they are nationalized, too. My tax dollars are paying for a group of highly compensated well armed thugs - pretty damn scary.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:36am
Ugh - sorry for the overload. I kept receiving an error message. Maybe editors can clean up.
Posted by SandyFeet at 07/15/2008 @ 02:38am
I agree with William Greider: Make Fannie Mae what is was before, a regulated non-profit agency.
Deregulating Fannie Mae and then creating Freddie Mac for "competition" has only created another corrupt oligopoly. This trust has gone bust. The reformers of the 1930s knew what they were doing!
This terrible two-step corruption dance, in which Republicans lead the push to deregulate, and then Democrats lead the push to bailout, has got to stop. This kind of foul bipartisanship is good for nobody.
Posted by JakobFabian at 07/15/2008 @ 07:02am
The thought that some of you here will have to pay additional taxes so that my bank will be cushioned from any post-subprime down draft tickles my funny bone no end.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/14/2008 @ 11:23pm
Go F*&^ yourself.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 08:52am
I don't believe Carter deregulated the S&L's .....
"The Depository Institutions Act of 1982, another Reagan initiative, was supposed to "revitalize" the housing industry by freeing up the S&Ls to make more loans. Instead, the regulation rollback led to what economist John Kenneth Galbraith called "the largest and costliest venture in public misfeasance, malfeasance and larceny of all time" as they engaged in a fury of high-risk lending. The collapse that followed cost taxpayers an estimated $150 billion in government bailouts, and contributed to the recession of the early 1990s." ~MotherJones
Posted by dlf at 07/15/2008 @ 09:56am
Sadly, the "hard truth about our situation" is far worse than you have described here. Everyone in America should watch this non-partisan video about banking and monetary policy:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279
Posted by BobsNotWorking at 07/15/2008 @ 12:10pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
When all you lefty whiners start producing oil out of the ground, building cars, or some other actual productive function, other than flapping your yaps about how the world isn't giving you what you need (and deserve)...then maybe you won't look so absurd.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 12:11pm
I think there are some serious flaws in your assessment. First of all, because Fannie and Freddie are empowered to purchase notes from lending banks, that frees up capital for those banks to lend again, which implies that you (mr. consumer) can go out and get a loan for your credit card, or house or car at low interest and low down-payment. The derivatives you speak of are known as CMOs (Collateralized Mortgage Obligations); they are intended to disperse the risk of holding a mortgage and by securitizing the mortgage, the lenders can get the note off their hands which enables them to lend more. So think hard about your 'whining'...these factors (Fannie Mae/ Freddy) as well as CMOs are what enable you, the American consumer, to live beyond your means. Second, if the government did not bail out Wall Street, what would the end result be? Calamity. Forget about the rich investors..If I have a $10Million portfolio, and my investments sink, I might walk away with about $7Million, go to Europe and live happily ever after. If you are an employee, and the company you work for tanks, and you have no investments or savings, guess what, you are unemployed and soon to be broke. Thus, by bailing out these institutions, these 'evil'politicians are actually helping you (the average american citizen) out more than they are helping the 'filthy rich'. ON a last note, I think the rich are getting a bad wrap. I move around the country, amongst different demographic groups. True, some of the rich are there because of mommy and daddy; others due to unscrupulous means. But there are many others who get on top due to hard work, diligence and thought action. I know many an entrepreneur and have been an entrepreneur in the past. It is tough work (at least in the begining), there is no time for vacations, no time for going to the beach, etc. Yet many of the 'not rich', spend their time on leisure activities; they prefer to get credit cards and get fancy clothes and cars, etc, to impress each other. They prefer to go to movies every weekend, and dine at restraurants every other night. They prefer to waste their time and engage in consumptive activities rather than focus on developing and growing themselves. Yet, when they see the producers advancing, rather than seek to emulate the succesful ones, the consumer society prefers to 'attack' those who bust their balls. Americans need to take more responsibility for their lives, their futures, and their children's futures. Cut off living beyond your means, and rather, focus on productive activities and building yourself up.
Posted by mahagwa at 07/15/2008 @ 12:13pm
Posted by dlf at 07/15/2008 @ 09:56am
thanks.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 12:52pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 08:52am
LOL!!!!!
Sorry, but after so many years of digesting the pleadings and bleatings of "the people," of listening to fatuous talk again and again and again, of visting threads such as this and seeing mediocrity reigning supreme, I end up losing my sympathy for "the people."
Let the bribed souls of Washington DC shore up my multinational bank, and let the price of my stock shoot way way up again.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 12:54pm
Posted by mahagwa at 07/15/2008 @ 12:13pm
"Yet, when they see the producers advancing, rather than seek to emulate the succesful ones, the consumer society prefers to 'attack' those who bust their balls. Americans need to take more responsibility for their lives, their futures, and their children's futures. Cut off living beyond your means, and rather, focus on productive activities and building yourself up."
Clearly, you fail to see the humor here and on other sites like this. This is a place for those with a strong sense of entitlement, a grudge against society, and an utter ignorance of economics to congregate and reinforce each others' ungrounded opinions. To them, life is a zero sum game, and they're on the losing end, with the wealthy, rich and powerful refusing to give them their just desserts. Take it for the entertainment that it is.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:05pm
Let the bribed souls of Washington DC shore up my multinational bank, and let the price of my stock shoot way way up again.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 12:54pm
and take your karma with you.
good luck.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 1:21pm
Remarks by Governor Edward M. Gramlich At the Financial Services Roundtable Annual Housing Policy Meeting, Chicago, Illinois May 21, 2004 Subprime Mortgage Lending: Benefits, Costs, and Challenges
'...One of the key financial developments of the 1990s was the emergence and rapid growth of subprime mortgage lending. Because of regulatory changes, the desire for increased profits, significant technological innovations, and liberalization in some government mortgage support programs, lending institutions began extending credit to millions of borrowers who previously would have been denied credit, both for mortgages and for other consumer loans. The increased availability of subprime mortgage credit has created new opportunities for homeownership and has allowed previously credit-constrained homeowners to borrow against the equity in their homes to meet a variety of needs. At the same time, increased subprime lending has been associated with higher levels of delinquency, foreclosure, and, in some cases, abusive lending practices. On a social level, one question is whether the gains afforded by these new market developments outweigh the losses. Another question is whether anything can be done to limit foreclosures. These are my topics today. ... This evolutionary process was pushed along by various federal actions. The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977, and later revisions to the regulation, gave banking institutions a strong incentive to make loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers or areas, an unknown but possibly significant portion of which were subprime loans. The Federal Housing Administration, which guarantees mortgage loans of many first-time borrowers, liberalized its rules for guaranteeing mortgages, increasing competition in the market and lowering interest rates faced by some subprime mortgage borrowers. ... The distribution of this added homeownership looks promising as well. More than half of these new homeowning households are minorities. While numbers of white homeowners did advance slightly more than 4 million, blacks gained 1.2 million, Hispanics 1.9 million, and the residual "other" category, including Asians and those reporting other races, 1.6 million. Nearly half of all black and Hispanic households now own their own home. These homeownership rates are still well below those of whites but are catching up....'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 07/15/2008 @ 1:23pm
Clearly, you fail to see the humor here and on other sites like this. This is a place for those with a strong sense of entitlement, a grudge against society, and an utter ignorance of economics to congregate and reinforce each others' ungrounded opinions. To them, life is a zero sum game, and they're on the losing end, with the wealthy, rich and powerful refusing to give them their just desserts. Take it for the entertainment that it is.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:05pm
hey, how do you feel about subsidizing ADM and CARGILL?
"The federal government spent $92 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to businesses and pri- vate-sector corporate entities--expenditures com- monly referred to as "corporate welfare"--in fiscal year 2006."
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 1:24pm
‘The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) of 1977, and later revisions to the regulation, gave banking institutions a strong incentive to make loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers or areas, an unknown but possibly significant portion of which were subprime loans.' -- Federal Reserve Governor Edward M. Gramlich -- 21 May, 2004
Posted by HonestLiberal at 07/15/2008 @ 1:26pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 1:24pm
Well, that kinda sucks FROSTY, but let's just say that when I can put whining and complaining in my vehicle's fuel tank, I'll finally have a use for the left other than fulfilling my entertainment needs.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:28pm
If I remember correctly, a Bush (brother of the Monkey, son of the Monkeyess) got 'bailed out' in the Savings-and-Loan debacle.
This time around it may not be a brother of the Monkey getting bailed out, although I'm not sure about that, but I am sure that Bush supporters/funders/cronies are included in this next bailed-out bunch.
Time to wake up to the fact that the USA exists to serve the fat-cats, and if in the process the nation collapses in a dung-heap of debt, so be it - it won't be their debt.
Posted by felicity at 07/15/2008 @ 1:37pm
"Therefore I will not keep silent;
I will speak out in the anguish of my spirit,
I will complain in the bitterness of my soul."
-- god --
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 1:37pm
Well, that kinda sucks FROSTY, but let's just say that when I can put whining and complaining in my vehicle's fuel tank, I'll finally have a use for the left other than fulfilling my entertainment needs.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:28pm
Ponti, Whining won't fill your gas to be sure, but here's another way to look at it. Why not pull your engine, gas tank and fuel lines completely out of your car and convert it over to an electric car?
It's not that difficult. Replace the engine with an AC motor. Purchase a controller for the motor and strap a bunch of 6 or 12V batteries in parallel depending upon the motor type and controller.
I plan on doing just that so I can give the finger to the Middle East, oil companies, W and anyone else who has taken part in screwing the people of the world over for oil profits.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 1:41pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 1:41pm
Yeah, but now you'll have to construct a whole new demonology around big electricity and their ally, big coal for charging you so much for electric. Not to mention that you're not actually saving any energy, you're just using a different form, and polluting more to boot when full fuel cycle emissions are taken into account. That is unless you're going to start pushing nuclear, which I doubt because you've been taught to believe that that's the devil's work.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:47pm
Posted by felicity at 07/15/2008 @ 1:37pm
"Time to wake up to the fact that the USA exists to serve the fat-cats, and if in the process the nation collapses in a dung-heap of debt, so be it - it won't be their debt."
It's them dang fat-cats that are keeping you from getting what you DESERVE, aint it Felicity! The nerve! Make them give it up!
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:53pm
Let the bribed souls of Washington DC shore up my multinational bank, and let the price of my stock shoot way way up again.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 12:54pm
and take your karma with you.
good luck.
----
Oh, Frosted Mini Wheats. Where were you, were was anyone at The Nation, when Ralph Nader asked us all 8 years ago what the fail standard is for the Democratic Party?
You care so much about the truth that you keep voting for the same old Democrats.....the ones who give Israel billions every year, no questions asked. The ones who support private insurance healthcare. The ones who vote time and again for obscene Pentagon budgets.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 2:32pm
The bottom line is that we Americans give this government over two trillions dollars every year, and the government has to get extra creative these days in figuring out just how to flush all that money down the toilet so that we continue to have nothing to show for it. Fix this Americans, and we can just shrug off things like bailing out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And it was Neil Bush who was on the board of one of the Savings and Loans pappa Bush bailed out. It's really a similar scam since the SSL scandel involved loans on valued property used as leverage for when the banks went bankrupt. It looks like the same people laughing all the way to the next bank to do this to.
Posted by dajson at 07/15/2008 @ 2:49pm
It's them dang fat-cats that are keeping you from getting what you DESERVE, aint it Felicity! The nerve! Make them give it up!
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:53pm
So, Pontificator, do you consider yourself to be one of the fat cats? What is your agenda, anyway?
Posted by notbuyingit at 07/15/2008 @ 2:51pm
You care so much about the truth that you keep voting for the same old Democrats
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 2:32pm
i've voted for the green party in the last three federal elections.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 3:21pm
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:47pm
just don't drive like a moron.
i'm getting 45 mpg from a 2000 civic.
easy.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 3:23pm
i've voted for the green party in the last three federal elections.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 3:21pm
--------
Good for you. The editors of The Nation voted (and will vote) for the Dems, and probably a lot of the geniuses contributing to this thread did (and do) as well.
The notion of "the people" no longer makes sense. American citizens love to whine and complain, but they never do anything. They didn't stop the Iraq war. They didn't get the Democratic leadership to impeach Bush/Cheney. Apparently they couldn't pressure Obama to change his position on telecom immunity.
It's better to do something, even if that means fattening one's stock portfolio, than sit around and whine like old women.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 3:45pm
Not to mention that you're not actually saving any energy, you're just using a different form, and polluting more to boot when full fuel cycle emissions are taken into account
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 1:47pm
You couldn't be me wrong on the efficiency. Have you ever looked at the efficiency of a combustion engine? It sucks. The translated energy of an electric motor is a lot higher than that of the combustion engine used in in cars. The combustion is less than 50% efficient. Most of the energy produced goes off in the form of heat.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:05pm
When all you lefty whiners start producing oil out of the ground, building cars, or some other actual productive function, other than flapping your yaps about how the world isn't giving you what you need (and deserve)...then maybe you won't look so absurd. Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 12:11pm
Uhhhh there are people on the left who produce products. Bill Gates is one of the premiere computer designers in the world. He is on the left. Same with Steve Jobs. Do you drill oil Ponti? How about design computers? There are plenty of liberal business owners. It is not only the right that owns manufacturing. Once again you proven your partisan stupidity by assuming it is only the right that contributes to this country.
I believe British Petroleum is owned and operated in a socialist nation...
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:22pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:22pm
CC, He also doesn't take note that a lot of those liberal college profeesors are not all liberal arts professors as he claims. There are quite a few in the engineering disciplines doing high level research.
Many engineering professors are liberal and are doing high level research for multiple fields. Keep in mind that these same professors also own their own companies on the side so they are also producing and selling their ideas on the real market. These folks are many things, but stupid isn't one of them.
You are correct. Ponti is clueless on this.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:44pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:44pm
Speaking of research, have you heard anything about combustion of saltwater using high frequency radio waves? Pretty neat stuff. Discovered by a guy researching cancer treatments. Anyway, it shows to be fairly efficient and safe. Maybe someday.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/15/2008 @ 4:53pm
I wish I had the education to argue against those of you who think you are entitled to something. Or those of you who think it is okay for others to have hardship so your stock can recover. But, I am only a high school graduate and US Air Force veteran. I have worked in blue-collar jobs my entire life. Often, I had to work two jobs to pay the bills, so I didn't have time to go to college. What happens if the bank that is holding my mortgage fails? Do I lose my home? I am too old and way too poor to start over. All I want is what I have paid for. And my basic American rights as outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, which were paid for by the blood of the patriots before us.
Posted by ps2dad at 07/15/2008 @ 4:59pm
Posted by ps2dad at 07/15/2008 @ 4:59pm
My hat is off to you. I also did a stint in the Air Force as an enlisted guy but couldn't get a job once I got out of the Air Force in what I was trained to do. I ended up going to college out of necessity. It was either starve to death trying to find a job as a radio tech or damn near starve to death and go to college.
I'm with you. People who work hard shouldn't be crapped all over just because someone else has money in their family or had the right breaks go their way.
The conservatives posting here could give a rats ass about the constitution or anyone who hasn't lined their own pockets for that rainy day. They claim that people who don't have money are lazy and don't work. They couldn't be more wrong. They don't realize that they are only a few bad breaks of being on the streets themselves.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 5:07pm
Speaking of research, have you heard anything about combustion of saltwater using high frequency radio waves? Pretty neat stuff. Discovered by a guy researching cancer treatments. Anyway, it shows to be fairly efficient and safe. Maybe someday.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/15/2008 @ 4:53pm
Sounds pretty cool. Perhaps they can use this to also produce drinking water. Hopefully someday as you say.
Well, it's about time cancer yielded something to humanity other than pain and death even if it's an a round about way.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 5:16pm
"Speaking of research, have you heard anything about combustion of saltwater using high frequency radio waves? Pretty neat stuff. Discovered by a guy researching cancer treatments. Anyway, it shows to be fairly efficient and safe. Maybe someday."
Both of these fields are filled with charlatans preying on the ignorance of desperation of people who want to believe. No doubt this fellow making energy from saltwater needs a little money to help him develop his idea, and he needs it from you. My advice is not to give it to him. I know perfectly intelligent people who get taken in by these scams, don't be one of them.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:40pm
This will be my last post. I was born poor, my first 2 years in college were on athletic scholarships (football and soccer). My final year was paid by the GI Bill (I graduated in 3 years). My Masters (in Engineering) was paid for by Graduate Assistant funds. And even then, I could have obtained student loans. To the former airforce guy, why did u not use the GI Bill? You probably still have access to it. The other airforce guy..I too ate beans and rice in my last year in college (as an athlete they took care of me). Bottom Line: Responsibility and Accountability. If I am making $30,000 a year and my annual expenses come to $25,000; that leaves me $5,000. If I pinch my expenses (and lifestyle) and save $5,000 a year (maybe in a mutal fund) and receive 10% Net a year -- assuming that every 5 years I can save an additional $3,000; within 15 years, my portfolio would have a net valuation of $293,450. Assume I begin working at the age of 25; by the age of 40, I have a net worth of almost $300,000, whilst earning about $32,000 a year. Not every one is born equal, but all of us are born with a brain; we must individually make the decision as to what we will use our brain for...will we use it to watch movies and buy CDs or will we use it to advance ourselves. Will we think for ourselves or allow other to think for us? The choice is ours...and the beauty of this country is that the government gives us the right to make such a choice and suffer any consequences of WRONG choices.
Posted by mahagwa at 07/15/2008 @ 6:44pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:05pm
"You couldn't be me wrong on the efficiency. Have you ever looked at the efficiency of a combustion engine? It sucks. The translated energy of an electric motor is a lot higher than that of the combustion engine used in in cars. The combustion is less than 50% efficient. Most of the energy produced goes off in the form of heat."
I have a degree in Chemical Engineering with a minor in advanced mathematics. I used to do full fuel cycle emissions and energy analysis for the USDOE. I know something about this subject. Do you? I see people on the left taking full advantage of the general public's ignorance of science in general every day, and it makes me cringe. And then people on the left decide that they're going to have the government make policy decisions based on this ignorance, and it makes me cringe even more. Wake up and smell the coffee, they are not going to make energy from saltwater any time soon, and using electricity to power cars is not much of a solution either energy-wise or pollution wise, unless the electricity is coming from nuclear power or some other non-fossil fuel source.
The hole in your analysis is thus. Although electric motors are more efficient at translating electric power into work than combusion engines are at translating chemical energy into work, there is a very large loss involved in translating fossil fuels into electricity. There is also a large loss of electrical energy in transmission lines. Plus, most of our electricity comes from coal, which is a big CO2 producer. Bottom line: electric vehicles are only marginally, if at all, better at energy efficiency and pollution generation than the standard internal combusion engine vehicle. That is, of course, unless you use nuclear power to create the electricity, and the last I heard only about 20% of our energy comes from nuclear because the neo-Luddite environuts had put a stop to any more plants.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:56pm
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:40pm
No, I'm not investing in it. Just thought it was interesting. I read about it, and then saw it demonstrated on the Science channel. Energy input is cost prohibitive to energy output. Maybe someday.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/15/2008 @ 6:59pm
even if that means fattening one's stock portfolio, than sit around and whine like old women.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 3:45pm
fattening it with illgotten gains?
tsk. tsk.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:11pm
even if that means fattening one's stock portfolio, than sit around and whine like old women.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 3:45pm
And whatever you lay out as usury, so that it may increase in the property of men, it shall not increase with Allah; and whatever you give in charity, desiring Allah's pleasure-- it is these (persons) that shall get manifold.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:12pm
Most of the energy produced goes off in the form of heat.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/15/2008 @ 4:05pm
great for warming sandwiches!
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:14pm
and the last I heard only about 20% of our energy comes from nuclear because the neo-Luddite environuts had put a stop to any more plants.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:56pm
i heard they're gonna put the waste repository is pontificusville.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:18pm
I wish my social security were invested in the stock market. I would have made a killing these last few years.
Posted by t113598 at 07/15/2008 @ 8:41pm
fattening it with illgotten gains?
tsk. tsk.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:11pm
--------
No. Fattening it with the additional taxes you and numerous other posters here will have to fork out in the coming years.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 8:50pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 8:18pm
"i heard they're gonna put the waste repository is pontificusville."
Actually, I already have a nuclear waste repository about an hour from my house. They can't move the waste from there because the NIMBY's, like yourself, won't allow the creation of one in a remote area like the deserts in Nevada. It's fine with me, they provide me (and parasites like you) with electricity, and we all allow them to store the waste in their own backyards, where it was never meant to be kept.
Of course, most people don't know that nuclear waste is stored in their own backyards, it's a specialty of the left and their politicians to keep most of us in the dark about that. I really think we ought to have special reservations for you lefty folks, where you can power yourselves with windmills and solar panels.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 9:28pm
No. Fattening it with the additional taxes you and numerous other posters here will have to fork out in the coming years.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 8:50pm
don't you see the real tax is in the dilution of the dollar?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 10:49pm
I really think we ought to have special reservations for you lefty folks, where you can power yourselves with windmills and solar panels.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 9:28pm
actually, all our energy sources, with the exception of geothermal and nuclear are solar power.
shouldn't we, the mighty human, be embarrassed that the plants have got us seriously beat in the energy game?
and shouldn't you, zealous consumer of energy, want all available resources put into humanity's being able to harness the massive amount available to us everyday of the year?
or do you prefer to fight for the last droplets of some rotten algae from millennia ago?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 10:57pm
Actually, I already have a nuclear waste repository about an hour from my house. They can't move the waste from there because the NIMBY's, like yourself, won't allow the creation of one in a remote area like the deserts in Nevada. It's fine with me, they provide me (and parasites like you) with electricity, and we all allow them to store the waste in their own backyards, where it was never meant to be kept.
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 9:28pm
let's see.
we use about 100 kilowatt hours each in our house in a normal month.
that goes up to about 250 each for four months because we have electric heat.
so i use about 1800 kw/h per year.
Energy Statistics > Electricity > Consumption (per capita) (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version Bar Graph Map
Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)
#1 Iceland: 26,101.99 kWh per capita
#2 Norway: 24,373.769 kWh per capita
#3 Canada: 15,645.337 kWh per capita
#4 Finland: 15,422.471 kWh per capita
#5 Sweden: 15,258.405 kWh per capita
#6 Kuwait: 14,982.685 kWh per capita
#7 Luxembourg: 12,785.753 kWh per capita
#8 Qatar: 12,709.029 kWh per capita
#9 United States: 12,343.098 kWh per capita
#10 United Arab Emirates: 10,362.261 kWh per capita
#88 Mexico: 2,066.22 kWh per capita
now, of course that includes industry. but nonetheless, my consumption doesn't warrant much production.
i use less than 10% of the per capita canadian consumption.
and my "lifestyle" is mighty fine, thank you very much.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 11:11pm
No. Fattening it with the additional taxes you and numerous other posters here will have to fork out in the coming years.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 8:50pm
don't you see the real tax is in the dilution of the dollar?
-----
"The real," as opposed to the unreal? A tax is a tax is a tax, whether it comes in the form of inflation, an assessment on bought goods, or the stealing of the fruits of one's labor.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 11:13pm
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 11:13pm
real, as in significant.
therefore you, too, are to be taxed more.
don't you eat?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 11:27pm
Frankly, I'd want Obama to nominate a long-haired hippy to the SC. Someone who favors the legalization of marijuana and other drugs, who's opposed to the death penalty, who's opposed to the idea of judicial review, and who'd favor federal marshals arresting Bush & Cheney on charges of war crimes.
Now THAT is the kind of Supreme Court Justice the country so desperately needs.
Posted by KSP556 at 06/5/2008
don't you eat?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 11:27pm
Yeah. Brownies.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/15/2008 @ 11:38pm
Posted by KSP556 at 07/15/2008 @ 11:13pm
real, as in significant.
therefore you, too, are to be taxed more.
don't you eat?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/15/2008 @ 11:27pm
-------------------
What I know is that there will be a taxpayer bailout of some kind which will help one of the banks of which I'm a stockholder. The thought that your taxes will be put to such use amuses me.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 12:18am
The thought that your taxes will be put to such use amuses me.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 12:18am
don't you eat?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/16/2008 @ 01:12am
Yes. Frosted Mini Wheats every morning.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 01:48am
If you're not buying gold and silver bullion, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Your government is trying to KILL YOU, folks. Make no mistake about it. And the only way we're going to influence them now is with physical intimidation. Believe me....
Posted by vooter at 07/16/2008 @ 08:53am
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:56pm
Hey dipshit boy, have you ever heard of hydro electric power. For having a degree in Chem E, you don't seem to grasp the fact that electric energy may be derived from waterfalls, wind energy, heat, and also regenerated from motors themselves.
Electrical power is not soley generated by nuclear power plants and coal plants. I know guys like you just want to damage the planet as much as possible to maximize your profits, but Jesus!!
Another point of electrical energy being more efficient than the combustion engine is that when gravity is working on an electric motor (Car is going downhill), it produces electrical energy which can be stored. Tell me how a combustion engine adds fuel back into the system when it goes downhill. Now a hybrid would do that, but not your standard car being sold these days.
Your warped views distort whatever education previously have had.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/16/2008 @ 09:23am
Posted by pontificus at 07/15/2008 @ 6:56pm
Hey dipshit boy, have you ever heard of hydro electric power. For having a degree in Chem E, you don't seem to grasp the fact that electric energy may be derived from waterfalls, wind energy, heat, and also regenerated from motors themselves.
Electrical power is not soley generated by nuclear power plants and coal plants. I know guys like you just want to damage the planet as much as possible to maximize your profits, but Jesus!!
Another point of electrical energy being more efficient than the combustion engine is that when gravity is working on an electric motor (Car is going downhill), it produces electrical energy which can be stored. Tell me how a combustion engine adds fuel back into the system when it goes downhill. Now a hybrid would do that, but not your standard car being sold these days.
Your warped political views evidently overun whatever education you have had. All anyone needs to do to come to this conclusion is read your posts.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/16/2008 @ 09:24am
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/16/2008 @ 09:24am
Sorry about the double post.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/16/2008 @ 09:25am
The thought that your taxes will be put to such use amuses me.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 12:18am
don't you eat?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/16/2008 @ 01:12am
Yes. Frosted Mini Wheats every morning.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 01:48am
Well, mr. amused..
Frosty lives in Canada.
His taxes are safe.
Guess you'll skip breakfast this morning.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/16/2008 @ 10:22am
Sorry about the double post.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/16/2008 @ 09:25am
Oh, please don't be sorry, Wolfgang. You should probably post the same response about a thousand times. Then maybe the smug, know-it-all types like Pontifu**us and KSP might actually get a clue. Although I wouldn't count on that.
Posted by notbuyingit at 07/16/2008 @ 10:58am
Naughty naughty, notbuying. You don't sound like somebody who has a very open mind. Pity.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 11:45am
Yes. Frosted Mini Wheats every morning.
Posted by KSP556 at 07/16/2008 @ 01:48am
made with gelatine. yuck!
pig skin.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/16/2008 @ 12:41pm
His taxes are safe.
Posted by Benchrest at 07/16/2008 @ 10:22am
not really.
because of the mismanaged u.s. monetary policy, i pay a subprimeiraqwar tax every time i put petrol in the pollution machine or have the nerve to buy food.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/16/2008 @ 12:44pm
According to an apocryphal story that has been making the rounds, Ronald Reagan woke up from his postmortem slumber to utter the following words: "Government is not the problem; it is the solution. Get Wall Street off the backs of the people!" Regardless of whether the story is true, it does seem plausible to say that Wall Street is under the aegis of closet bureaucratic communists. Its madness, alas, might very well be methodical.
Posted by ALPI at 07/16/2008 @ 1:17pm
What I find interesting regarding this side debate surrounding the efficiency of engines is that their is no consideration of point vs. non-point source pollution. The allure, if there is any, of generating electricity for vehicles via the use of fossil fuel power plants, is that it is far easier to control the emissions at the power plant, a point source of pollution, then, say, hundreds of thousands of cars, a non-point source of pollution.
What is also absent from this discussion and any discussion regarding energy is that we have an outdated, archaic, and inefficient energy transmission system.
The left and people who think that they are being environmentally aware want to build solar farms in Arizona and wind farms in Nebraska and the Dakotas. The reason, which also happens to be the problem, is that very few people live in these areas. This, of course allows for huge wind or solar farms, but the transmission losses associated with such an approach makes it, in my mind undesirable.
Those on the right, including most elected Democrats, want "clean coal technology" and more nuclear energy. What is forgotten here is that both coal and nuclear energy are heavily subsidized, masking their true cost, and the reality with nuclear energy, in its current technological form, is that we have a major issue with spent fuel rods. Until we can find a safer and more cost-effective way to develop nuclear energy, it's off the table. There are, however, interesting developments in the use of thorium that would be as efficient as current technologies with fewer down sides, but the technology is years away. Coal is just destructive, period. It's outdated. It's dirty no matter how you look at it.
What we do need is to diversity our energy portfolio through the development of wind, solar, tidal, and wave energy for electricity production, and the development of algae facilities for the production of biofuels. I'm sure there are other technologies as well. We also need to decentralize our energy production so that loss through transmission lines can be minimized. But, most of all, we need to be more efficient. Programs like Energy Star have been very effective in increasing the efficiency of appliances, but we also need to look at other ways. Places in Scandinavia (and probably others), generate natural gas from sewage, and harvest the heat from sewage pipes to help heat (or cool) buildings. Cities like Toronto and now Hawaii are using the lake and ocean as a giant heat sink to provide for heating and cooling of buildings. There are many programs that provide incentives for planting vegetative roofs to reduce heating and cooling loads, while, at the same time, improving local air quality. The list goes on an on.
What's funny is that efforts to increase energy efficiency and develop more sustainable forms of energy would spur the economy, create jobs, and decrease our dependence on foreign sources of energy. But the media and the government is filled with lawyers, communications majors, and talking heads, when what we need is more scientists and engineers involved that can help to develop these technologies and create an environment where we can do so.
Posted by thanser at 07/17/2008 @ 11:39am
The banking crisis is a difficult conundrum. The whole reason for the crisis stems from deregulation that began thirty years ago, ultimately allowing banks and lenders to make risky financial decisions, make false claims to consumers, and even outright lie about an indvidual's ability to pay back their loans. The industry as a whole is complicit in this matter. Just like they wanted a more "free market" approach to finance that allowed them to make obscene sums of money, that same philosophy should allow all of them to fail, without government intervention.
The challenge lies not in this aspect, but in the effect that it has on individuals, particularly the poor and elderly. I have little sympathy for those with double incomes, collectively making 150k+, many of whom are coworkers and friends of mine, who are now in a situation where their mortgage is higher than the value of their house (Maybe the suburbs of the next decade will be like the Bronx of the 70s, with owners setting fire to their own homes to collect insurance money on their devalued property). They will undoubtedly suffer, but perhaps they will learn a hard lesson about greed and living beyond one's means, particularly when one's means are so great. They also will undoubtedly have the greatest opportunities to rebound from their losses.
It is the elderly and the poor that concern me. They have far fewer opportunities for recovery. How, in light of what has happened, and, considering that we should let the financial institutions fail due to their own incompetence and greed, can they be protected? What is the solution?
Posted by thanser at 07/17/2008 @ 12:07pm
Ralph Nader Ralph Nader Ralph Nader Ralph Nader Ralph Nader Ralph Nader
Open your minds, people.
Posted by LeeCalif at 07/18/2008 @ 1:11pm
You blame the free market but we didn't have one as Fannie and Freddie, being corporations with an implicit backdrop by the US government, along with being able to get loans at special rates and having special support from the Treasury, was an entity that banks had to compete with but in no way could compete with. That's why Fannie and Freddie ever achieved such high leverage ratios (from 60 to 200:1), leverage that a hedge fund could only dream about. Despite it being clearly stated on all prospectus, investors assumed that the US would never allow Fannie and Freddie to fail. This combined with the anticompetitive advantages that they had brought us to this point.
Thus the creation of what is essentially a fascist entity -- private investors benefit from a taxpayer supported entity that others in the same market cannot compete with -- by the government destroyed the free market in loans long ago. This is also what led to the bubble in the first place, as Fannie and Freddie bought up loans left and right and dealt out cheap money so that everybody could have a McMansion. Being untenable from the start, only now have things reached the point where the error is clear to all.
Furthermore, to nationalize Fannie and Freddie would be to immediately tie the entire bond market to trillions of dollars of declining and in some cases worthless real estate. This would annihilate the dollar and ensure the widespread dumping of our currency.
Posted by kyrieeleison at 07/18/2008 @ 1:44pm
Treasury Sect. Henry Paulson is not related to hedge fund manager John Paulson. See: http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/01/16/2008-01-16_queensborn_john_p aulson_makes_fortune_on.html
"The publicity-shy Paulson, who is not related to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, ..."
Posted by SticklerforAccuracy at 07/18/2008 @ 1:53pm
"I believe British Petroleum is owned and operated in a socialist nation..."
Posted by Cccomfo1
Socialist? Cccomfo1,
You're doing a good job there confirming Non-Americans beliefs regarding Americans parochialism and lack of knowledge about the rest of the world.
If you want to see Corporate Socialism in action recent events suggest you look no further than Washington DC.
Posted by Valenciana at 07/18/2008 @ 10:38pm
Some of you seem to think that the "commoners" among you have misplaced priorities ie. that we should all look for ways to exploit the weaker members of our communities and watch our portfolios (watch our backs) more digilantly than we watch our children, who by the way are also under attack from a crude assortment of corporations, greed heads and other predators. Prehaps you should reread Pearl Buck. You can't possibly defend carniverous capitolism then blame the helpless victims when the system you created teeters on the edge of collapse. You need us. We don't need you. We know how to survive in spite of consistant set backs and limited resources. Remember we all carry guns and stand behind our Bibles. Snap!
Posted by junkyardjoy at 07/19/2008 @ 12:45am