Of Juntas, Storms, and Earthquakes-Natural and Man-Made

The Indian Ocean tsunami of 2004, with its 225,000 or more deaths in 11 countries, shocked the world; so, in recent weeks, has the devastation wrought by a powerful cyclone (and tidal surge) that hit the Irrawaddy Delta of Myanmar. It resulted in at least 78,000 deaths (with another 56,000 reported missing) and a display of recalcitrance on the part of a military junta focused on its own security while its people perish. Similarly, a devastating earthquake in China's Sichuan Province that hit 7.9 on the Richter scale and whose tremors were felt 1,000 miles away has swept into the news. Its casualty count has already reached 51,000 with unknown numbers of Chinese still buried in rubble or cut off in rural areas and so, as yet, untallied, and an estimated five million people homeless.

These are staggering natural disasters, hard even to take in, and yet it's a reasonable question whether, in terms of damage, any of them measure up to the ongoing human-made (or rather Bush administration made) disaster in Iraq. Worse yet, unlike a natural disaster, the Iraqi catastrophe seems to be without end. No one can even guess when it might be said of that country that an era of reconstruction or rebuilding is about to begin. Instead, the damage only grows week by miserable week and yet, as has often been true in the last year, Iraq continues to have trouble even cracking the top ten stories in U.S. news coverage.

Just this week, Iraqi troops moved into the vast, battered Shiite suburb of Sadr City in east Baghdad after weeks of fierce fighting. The first descriptions of the damage -- U.S. air power was regularly called in over the last months in this heavily populated slum area -- are devastating: "As I moved into the neighborhood," writes Raheem Salman of the Los Angeles Times online, "the destruction from weeks of fighting was horrible. Most of the shops and kiosks have been damaged. Doors are knocked off their hinges. Windows are shattered. The walls are riddled with bullet holes. Some buildings are blown apart by missile fire."

But then Iraq itself is a devastation zone. From the first shock-and-awe attacks on Baghdad as the Bush administration's invasion began in March 2003--which killed only civilians--and the early bombing, missiling, shelling, and even cluster bombing of urban areas as the invading U.S. military barreled north, death, chaos, and destruction have been the Bush administration's tidal surge in Iraq. By now, an estimated 4.7 million Iraqis are either refugees abroad or internally displaced and, depending upon which study or whose numbers you use, hundreds of thousands to a million or more Iraqis have died in the last five years. There is, of course, simply no way to measure the mental stress and anguish that those same years have inflicted on Iraqis.

The New York Times recently profiled a psychiatrist working with hopelessly antiquated equipment amid a tide of desperate, wounded humanity at Ibn Rushid, a psychiatric hospital in Baghdad. It's now a run-down hulk from which seven of its 11 staff psychiatrists have fled -- either for Kurdish areas to the north or abroad--fearing kidnapping or assassination. In some hospitals and universities in Baghdad, staff has reportedly been reduced by 80%. The economy is in tatters; governmental authority hardly exists; disease is rampant; the medical system in ruins; significant parts of the middle class gone; militias in control; and still, amid this rolling, roiling catastrophe, the Bush administration adamantly persists in its course.

Much scorn has rightly been poured on the junta in Myanmar recently, but, when it comes to recalcitrance and putting self-interest ahead of the well-being of masses of desperate souls, the American President, Vice President, and their top officials have proven themselves a planetary junta of the first order. When it comes to Iraq, to this very day, they remain obdurate and well-defended from the results of the human version of the 7.9 quake they let loose on that country.

Back in January 2005, considering the Indian Ocean tsunami, Rebecca Solnit wrote at this site: "You can say in some ways that what has happened in Iraq is a tsunami that swept ten thousand miles from the epicenter of an earthquake in Washington DC, an earthquake in policy and principle that has devastated countless lives and environments and cities far away…" But this has not exactly been a popular image in the American mainstream media; and so, in recent weeks, no one has even thought to connect our ongoing Iraqi disaster to the natural disasters in Asia, or the acts of the Burmese junta to those of our own leaders in relation to Iraq. After all, we are largely inured to, and generally oblivious to, the ongoing harm for which we are responsible.

And yet, as Michael Schwartz points out in his latest piece, http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174935/tomdispatch_michael_schwartz_the_loss_of_an_imperial_dream"River of Resistance," Iraqi resistance to Bush's desires and designs predictably continues. This sort of resistance has been with us at least since the Catholic peasants of Spain--the Sunni fundamentalists of their day--resisted, and finally defeated, Napoleon's army, the finest in Europe at the time. And to judge by Francisco Goya's famous series of aquatints, The Disasters of War, you would no more have wanted to meet those peasants in a back alley than you would many of the resisters in Iraq today.

"Think of it this way," writes Schwartz, "in a land the size of California with but 26 million people, a ragtag collection of Baathists, fundamentalists, former military men, union organizers, democratic secularists, local tribal leaders, and politically active clerics--often at each others throats (quite literally)--nonetheless managed to thwart the plans of the self-proclaimed New Rome, the 'hyperpower' and 'global sheriff' of Planet Earth. And that, even in the first glancing assessment of history, may indeed prove historic." And in return came the tsunami.

Comments (31)

1. "Think of it this way," writes Schwartz, "in a land the size of California with but 26 million people, a ragtag collection of Baathists, fundamentalists, former military men, union organizers, democratic secularists, local tribal leaders, and politically active clerics--often at each others throats (quite literally)--nonetheless managed to thwart the plans of the self-proclaimed New Rome, the 'hyperpower' and 'global sheriff' of Planet Earth. And that, even in the first glancing assessment of history, may indeed prove historic." And in return came the tsunami."

   This reminds of a quote from a comedian. Who brought up the point that our country is losing the War on Drugs to a bunch of stoners.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/22/2008 @ 3:40pm

2. I am proud to have Dick Cheney at my side. He is a man of integrity and sound judgment, who has proven that public service can be noble service. America will be proud to have a leader of such character to succeed Al Gore as Vice President of the United States.

   george w. bush, acceptance speech, philadelphia, 2000.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:42pm

3. We will seize this moment of American promise.

   We will use these good times for great goals.

   We will confront the hard issues -- threats to our national security, threats to our health and retirement security -- before the challenges of our time become crises for our children.

   ibid

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:44pm

4. Our military is low on parts, pay and morale.

   If called on by the commander-in-chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report ... Not ready for duty, sir.

   This administration had its moment.

   They had their chance. They have not led. We will.

   ibid

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:45pm

5. If your leading, but no one is following, your just taking a walk.

   Posted by Benchrest at 05/22/2008 @ 3:48pm

6. The last time taxes were this high as a percentage of our economy, THERE WAS A GOOD REASON ... WE WERE FIGHTING WORLD WAR II.

   ibid

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:49pm

7. "A generation shaped by Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam. "

   ibid

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:50pm

8. WHEN AMERICA USES FORCE IN THE WORLD,

   THE CAUSE MUST BE JUST,

   THE GOAL MUST BE CLEAR,

   AND THE VICTORY MUST BE OVERWHELMING.

   ibid

   Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 3:50pm

9. apply the global warming angle on your next piece on how well Iraq is going, and it is going well....---Posted by HAPPY3 at 05/22/2008

   Interesting angle...given McCain believes in man-made global warming AND things going well in Iraq.

   heheh

   Posted by Mask at 05/22/2008 @ 8:14pm

10. here HAPPY, make some more money:

    ENERGY

    Alaska throws support behind TransCan

    Company's $26-billion pipeline plan gets boost as Governor recommends awarding the firm a licence

    NORVAL SCOTT

    May 23, 2008

    CALGARY -- TransCanada Corp.'s plans to build a huge natural gas pipeline from Alaska to Alberta got a major boost yesterday when Alaska's Governor threw her support behind the project.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 04:58am

11. just what we need, more gas from Froz.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/23/2008 @ 11:09am

12. at least it's NATURAL gas!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 1:39pm

13. Top court says Canada complicit in Guantanamo case

    Fri May 23, 2008 1:07pm EDT Print This Article | Single Page By Randall Palmer

    OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada took part in an illegal process when it gave the United States the results of interviews conducted in Guantanamo Bay with terrorism suspect Omar Khadr, the Supreme Court ruled on Friday.

    The Canadian court said handing over the documents to the United States meant Canada had "participated in a process that was contrary to Canada's international human rights obligations."

    In a unanimous decision, the court said Khadr was entitled to see at least some of the documents that Canada gave to the United States to help him prepare for his trial at the U.S. naval base in Cuba in late summer or early fall.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 2:21pm

14. What Tom Engelhardt leaves out of his discourse about all the devestation, etc. in Iraq and how it is without end, is any discussion of:

    1. What life would be like in an Iraq still under Saddam

    2. What life would be like in a world where Saddam was still present and cultivating more and more links to terror, and providing more and more support to terror, which he would have been doing.

    3. What life would be like in a world once it became an Islamic caliphate, which it would have been and still could be if we do not agressively fight terror.

    These questions do matter, yet you (I use "you" in this post to mean the anti-war anti-Bush libs on The Nation blogs, which means most of you) just dismiss them. The situation in Iraq is getting better (which you do not recognize or admit), but the War on Terror is going to go on for a long time beyond Iraq.

    You don't see this, but in Europe - in the UK and France, Islamic people are moving to those countries with no intention of assimilating into the culture. Instead it is the other way around, they are now demading those societies remake themselves to Islamic specifications. In the UK, they demand that the teaching of the Holocaust be stopped in the schools, and some people have talked about how Shiria law could become part of the legal code. In the UK! So the demands are going to be complied with.

    In France, after Islamic people riot, the French wring their hands and blame themselves.

    In other words, the reaction to this stuff over there is the same kind of reaction that most American libs would have if (or when) it happens here.

    This is not going to stop for a long time, sorry to tell you libs now.

    The question is, however, which will be the more difficult battle - fighting Islamic terror, or trying to stave off efforts by you to promote in appeasement, capitulation, apology and surrender every step of the way?

    And that battle has to be fought, too - beacuse the appeasement, etc. leads to death, misery and human suffering. Always has, always will. And whenever and whereever it does, you the enlightened always blame someone other than yourselves.

    Now, this does not have to be liberal behavior by default, because after all, Tony Blair (known to you as the "lapdog" or the "poodle") did not buy into this stuff but promoted the opposite, Senator Joe Lieberman does not agree with most of you, and former Mayor Ed Koch believes in fighting back against terror, too.

    Mayor Koch has an article out on the Internet now (available on many different sites) where he says history will vindicate President George W. Bush. You, the enlightened lib bloggers here on The Nation, such read that article and try to understand what it is saying.

    Note: These are my own words articulated by me from my observations of current events. They are not "Fox News Propaganda", nor are they "Conservative talking points" nor are they BS nor are they trying to deny you your free speech, nor do they display any lack of intelligence, education or awareness on my part, nor do they indicate automatic knee jerk agreement with anything our country does or George W. Bush does. They are my opinions and I am simply pointing out how I am right and you are wrong. And if that comes across as arrogant and pompous then you libs maybe will finally see how you come across in the public domain.

    I probably need to include this standard paragraph at the end of all my posts because of what always comes back to me (or others of the same opinion) when we post in.

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 3:42pm

15. A typo in my post above:

    "such read that article" should be "should read that article".

    I am making the correction right away lest any libs make postings chortling with glee at my mistake!

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 3:47pm

16. A typo above:

    "such read that article" should be "should read that article"

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 3:49pm

17. 1. What life would be like in an Iraq still under Saddam

    §§§§ as horrible as it is to say, BETTER.

    2. What life would be like in a world where Saddam was still present and cultivating more and more links to terror, and providing more and more support to terror, which he would have been doing.

    §§§§ show me those links. i bet the residents of sadr city consider the f-16s to be terrifying.

    3. What life would be like in a world once it became an Islamic caliphate, which it would have been and still could be if we do not agressively fight terror.

    §§§§ i'm sure the chinese, the indians et. al would have something to say about that. pure nonsense.

    The situation in Iraq is getting better,

    §§§§ i'm sure the residents of sadr city disagree.

    but the War on Terror is going to go on for a long time beyond Iraq.

    §§§§ sure, it's good for business. and judging from your fear, politics, as well.

    In the UK, they demand that the teaching of the Holocaust be stopped in the schools, and some people have talked about how Shiria law could become part of the legal code. In the UK! So the demands are going to be complied with.

    §§§§ jewish religious law has been used in the u.k. for a long time. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7233040.stm

    In France, after Islamic people riot, the French wring their hands and blame themselves.

    §§§§ ever ask yourself why 9/11 happened. it's not because THEY HATE YOUR FREEDOM

    This is not going to stop for a long time, sorry to tell you libs now.

    §§§§ especially with so many people like yourself living in fear and spewing hate.

    And that battle has to be fought, too

    §§§§ do you plan on killing 1.3 billion people?

    Tony Blair (known to you as the "lapdog" or the "poodle") did not buy into this stuff but promoted the opposite, Senator Joe Lieberman does not agree with most of you, and former Mayor Ed Koch

    §§§§ three shining lights......

    §§§§ see you in hell......

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 4:31pm

18. "When it comes to Iraq, is the Bush Administration the equivalent of Myanmar's junta?"

    only in their wildest dreams!!!! lol...

    more like the fake democracy supported by fundamentalist clerics of iran...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/23/2008 @ 4:44pm

19. now, THAT makes sense.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 4:47pm

20. Hey Frosty Zoom,

    You say life in Iraq would have been better - and I have seen others say at least they had electricity. I guess so, the shredding machines Saddam ran people through were powered by electricity. It would have been too much effort for Saddam or his cronies to have to crank them by hand.

    You want me to show you links. Educate yourself, the information is in the public domain. This topic was discussed to a great deal in that Pentagon report that came out a few months ago. The one where the media focused on "no link between Saddam and al-Qaeda", and nothing else. I learned long ago not to get into the trap of providing libs links they demand, just to assist the libs in amusing themselves. One time, a lib on this site wanted proof of something libs believe in themselves. (It had to do with the sentiments expressed by Cindy Sheehan). The lib was asking me to prove what the libs themselves believe, not what I believe. The libs was just playing mind games.

    You talk about the Chinese and the Indians having a say about the Islamic caliphate, but what misery will exist before they do? What about areas of the world that do not have the inclination to want a say? (such as Europe and even America if libs run the show). How does Chinese or Indians not letting an Islamic caliphate help me if I am living in one, because of lib mindset, or if I am dead because I resisted living in that mode?

    You talk about 9/11 and how it was not because they hate our freedom. Actually, it was. They hate our whole way of life and they hate anybody that is not like them. They threw fits and killed people because of those cartoons in the Danish newspaper. That had nothing to do with 9/11, George W. Bush in particular or America in general, Israel, or Iraq. What part of that do you not understand?

    One thing that contributed to 9/11 happening is that they thought they could get away with it, that had been the pattern before when they attacked us, and yes, even when Republicans were president. Fortunately George W. Bush and Tony Blair were in charge on 9/11 and thus al-Qaeda will not get away with it, whether bin Laden is captured or not.

    And his effectiveness is probably moot now anyway, he would probably be more value to their movement as a captured martyr. And don't forget - if he were captured, Ramsey Clark would probably rush to defend him and turn bin Laden's trial into a trial on George W. Bush. The trial would probably turn into an absolute three ring circus.

    And don't forget too, that all the libs continuing to bring up the matter of bin Laden's capture would be stopping on a dime if he were captured, then doing an immediate 180 degree turnaround and proclaiming his capture doesn't mean anything.

    As far as Jewish law in Britain, your link shows that Jewish law there, as well as Shiria law, governs mostly matters amongst two cooperating parties and those that are impacted by the religous practices.

    But, of course, what you do not see is the concern about the current wave of Islamic immigration into the UK with no desire to assimilate into society. One is rightfully concerned when a group of people show that they want to isolate themselves and have a propensity to eventually push their ways into the society they joined.

    Jewish people do not try to isolate themselves from the society they become part of.

    Jewish people do not have a mission to make all people in the world Jewish.

    Jewish people do not throw fits of anger or kill people when they see cartoons in a newspaper they do not like.

    Jewish people do not kill people who are not Jewish or willing to convert to Judiasm, and in Israel people are not arrested, convicted and executed if they convert from Judiasm.

    You talk about me spewing hate - it is not hate to see other's hate (Islamic hatred) for what it is and call attention to it. You libs define it as such but it is pure stupidity to not call attention and try to do something about Islamic hatred.

    I just realized as I was typing my statement above about pure stupidity - I now have some insight into why Jimmy Carter behaves as he does! An intellectually brilliant man has no common sense whatever.

    You call Tony Blair, Joe Lieberman, and Ed Koch three shining lights. That is correct, they are. You were trying to be sarcastic but if I did what you libs do a lot, I could take that remark out of context and say you were praising the three. Since conservatives do not do what you libs do (take remarks out of context and misrepresent them), you do not have to worry about that. One of the benefits of being a lib, I guess, you are free from the antics of other libs.

    Unless your name is Hillary Clinton, who used to be adored by the left but whose name is all of a sudden mud because she will not comply and drop out of the race for President. A lib is now being condemned by other libs, maybe for the first time ever!

    You said you will see me in hell. I do not plan to be there, unless hell is brought to me in the mode of the New Jersey Giants (a.k.a "New York football Giants") winning the Super Bowl each and every year from now and throught eternity. That would be hell, right now I am trying to get through this year until the next Super Bowl, when hopefully any other team than they will be the new champions.

    If a Manning wins the Super Bowl, his name needs to be Peyton and his coach needs to be Tony Dungy.

    Enough for now.

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 5:34pm

21. sjchermak

    enjoy your fear.

    i suggest you look for your demons much closer to home.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 6:12pm

22. Frosty,

    Here's another one! You included another stock lib response, that the situations I have described above is "fear". Libs then go on and proclaim that George W. Bush is scaring us. We are told we are not supposed to be "afraid" of terrorists trying to kill us. Standard stuff.

    1. I am not afraid. I want the terrorists killed before they kill me. I am too old to go into the military or I would volunteer to go over and help kill them myself.

    2. We are told (by libs) that George W. Bush has not done enough on the homefront as far as homeland security. He, according to some libs, has not done enough to protect the ports. You are a lib (please do not post in and say you are not - that is another one that pops up a lot) - maybe you can answer the question - if we are not supposed to be afraid because there is apparently no threat (as libs see it), then why do the ports need to be protected?

    3. We are not supposed to be afraid of terrorists who want to kill us, but we are supposed to fear that the planet is going to be gone in 10 years. So sayeth the great prophet Algore. On a matter that scientists are not in agreement with (global warming) and on which more and more scientists are speaking about with reservations or disagreement about what the great almighty Algore has spoke. On a matter upon which a court in the United Kingdom has ruled that any school showing kids the movie the almighty Algore has produced MUST ALSO tell the kids about the nine (9) things the great almighty Algore has been proven wrong about.

    So it is OK to fear some things, but not others, with libs trying to be in charge of which ones are to be responded to and which ones are to be ignored.

    And libs say we are not to fear terrorists, but you have not learned by now that the terrorists will not spare your life because of your belief. You may be of the mindset that if you do not fight back, they will not be angry at you. You haven't learned they hate you no matter what and may even respect you less because you made it too easy for them to kill you.

    And no, I do not need to look for demons closer to home. The demons (football Giants) are too close already - just walk into a sporting goods store and you are reminded of them. Even in Ontario you see it - I would have thought Canadian customs would have blocked that Giants logo from coming across the border. Any logo that has an NY in it need to be "interlocking" and on the front of a baseball cap, that is the good NY logo, the Yankees logo. And no, I am not a New England Patriots fan, but I am probably more ticked the Super Bowl went 30 seconds too long this year than most Patriot fans.

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 6:37pm

23. Frosty,

    FYI- I am a Chicago Bears (da Bears) fan and a Baltimore Ravens fan.

    Why mention this? I might as well, because you libs refuse to even try and understand what I or any other Conservative posts in here. Maybe some lib will post in and agree with me that football Giants are bad (and they are and must never win the Super Bowl again), and then I can say I got a lib to agree with me on at least one thing.

    When I called up The Nation website again a moment ago, there was an ad questioning whether George W. Bush should be tried for murder.

    At this point I can see it really is a colossal waste of time to come to this website. A Psychiatrist should put an ad on The Nation website saying, "If you have been to this website more than once after seeing what's here - you are insane - call me for treatment ASAP!"

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 @ 6:54pm

24. Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 | ignore this person | warn this person

    i'm a long suffering chiefs fan. they got some great young players (especially on defence) this year and a potentially franchise young quarterback... so i'm actually allowing myself to get kinda excited. also a redskins devotee...

    don't know why i have an affinity with the native american thing though...hmmm...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/23/2008 @ 9:20pm

25. sjchermak

    wave after wave of clichés......

    go lions.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 10:14pm

26. sjchermak

    like i said,

    look for your demons much closer to home.

    First lets take a look at domestic murder rates:

    The murder rate in America is the highest it's been since the 70's. The most current stats that I could find on murder rates was from the year 2005. In that year there where 16,692 people murdered in the United States and it appears the murder rate is on an upswing. Between the years 2001 and 2005 (81,634) people where murdered on the streets of America. Some evidence suggests that the two years following 2005 will place the murder rate in America well above 100,000 since the year 2001.

    If you consider a drunk driver killing someone in an accident as murder, the stats explode. Between the years 2001 and 2006, (104,140) people where killed in drunk driving accidents. This is not to mention all of the other crimes (violent and otherwise) against American citizens by American citizens, from property crimes against one another to white collar crime. The monetary losses of crime in America boggles the mind. If you combine the total murders and drunk driving deaths just from the years 2001-2007 in the United States the death toll is (201,140) people.

    Now lets look at the lives lost in terror attacks and the lives lost in the subsequent War on Terror:

    1983 Beirut barracks bombing 241 American servicemen where killed.

    1993 World Trade Center bombing (2-26-1993) killed 6 people.

    On (10-12-2000) the Cole was attacked from a small boat by Al-Qaeda suicide bombers, while she was harbored in the Yemeni port of Aden, 17 sailors were killed.

    1998 U.S. Embassy bombings (8-7-1998) killed 211, 200 Kenyans were killed at the embassy in Nairobi, and 11 Tanzanians were killed in Dar es Salaam, none where American.

    The attacks of (9-11-2001) killed 2,973.

    Total killed in Iraq in the War on Terror 2,974.

    Total killed in Afghanistan 261.

    The total loss of American lives, from the year 1983 to date, due to terrorism is 6,472.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 10:21pm

27. HAPPY3

    i think it's time to take a deep look within.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/23/2008 @ 11:45pm

28. Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008 |

    so just leave already. get the fuck out, who needs ya. don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    good riddance to bad rubbish. go. go ahead leave already. pffft

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/26/2008 @ 8:32pm

29. Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008

    your childish football chatter shows the limits of your intellect. who needs this crap? football season was over long ago.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/26/2008 @ 8:36pm

30. Posted by sjchermak at 05/23/2008

    college sophomore at best. or stuck in that mental place.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/26/2008 @ 8:37pm

31. Hello Libs,

    I did indicate one would have to be insane to visit TheNation.com, but it is nice to see on a return trip here that my points have been proven and that you libs know it, too.

    How do I know this? Easy. When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, she was asked once if she was bothered when her opponents resorted to name calling and insults.

    She said it did not bother her, in fact, when that happened she knew she had won her arguments, because it confirmed that her opponents had no substance left in their arguments and so instead of conceding the point they would turn to insults instead. So it was a positive thing for her to hear her detractors throwing mud and invective.

    So, thanks emile duBois for speaking on behalf of all the libs in the blog above as you confirmed I have won the debate here and that you the enlightened libs know your arguments have been disproven.

    Posted by sjchermak at 05/27/2008 @ 10:27am