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RedditWe are lawyers in the United States of America. As such, we have all taken an oath obligating us to defend the Constitution and the rule of law…. We believe the Bush administration has committed numerous offenses against the Constitution and may have violated federal laws…. Moreover, the administration has blatantly defied congressional subpoenas, obstructing constitutional oversight …. Thus, we call on House Judiciary Chairman John Conyers and Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy to launch hearings into the possibility that crimes have been committed by this administration in violation of the Constitution…. We call for the investigations to go where they must, including into the offices of the President and the Vice President. -- American Lawyers Defending the Constitution
Over one thousand lawyers – including former Governor Mario Cuomo and former Reagan administration official Bruce Fein – have signed onto the above statement demanding wide-ranging investigative hearings into unconstitutional and potentially criminal activity by the Bush administration.
In a conference call with reporters yesterday, Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights and winner of the 2007 Puffin/Nation Prize for Creative Citizenship, said: "The majority of lawyers in this country understand that the Bush administration has really gone off the page of constitutional rights and off the page of fundamental rights, and is willing to push the Congress to restore those rights." Ratner said he was "dismayed" that a Democratic majority has failed "to push on key illegalities… the torture program, and now the destruction of the tapes involving the torture program; the warrantless wiretapping, the denial of habeas corpus, the secret sites/rendition program, special trials, and of course what we now know is the firing of US Attorneys scandal…. The minimal that absolutely is needed to get us back on the page of law is to have serious investigative hearings that go up the chain of command and figure out who is responsible for what."
Ratner noted that even with regard to the US attorney's investigations, where Congressional committees held Harriet Miers, Josh Bolten, and Karl Rove in contempt, leadership has failed to enforce these actions by bringing the resolutions to a vote. "Just announcing that investigations will be held and subpoenas will be issued is terribly insufficient unless Congress is willing to enforce the subpoenas by issuing contempt citations," Ratner said. "Congress has a constitutional duty to oversee the activities of the executive branch and our entire system of government is threatened when Congress simply folds before an obstinate executive. Issuing contempt citations against Bolten, Miers, and Rove should be Congress's first order of business in 2008."
Marjorie Cohn, president of the National Lawyers Guild, discussed the administration's torture program violating three US-ratified treaties and the US torture statute; the illegal War in Iraq violating the US-ratified UN Charter as a war of aggression; and Attorney General Michael Mukasey's conflict of interest in overseeing investigations into the torture program and the destruction of the CIA interrogations tapes.
Also speaking with reporters was Jesselyn Raddack, a former Justice Department ethics lawyer who served as an advisor during the interrogation of John Walker Lindh (the "American Taliban"). Raddack said, "My e-mails documented my advice against interrogating Lindh without a lawyer, and concluded that the FBI committed an ethics violation when it did so anyway. Both the CIA videotapes and my e-mails were destroyed, in part, because officials were concerned that they documented controversial interrogation methods that could put agency officials in legal jeopardy…. " Raddack pointed to the Department of Justice's investigations of Enron and Arthur Anderson for obstruction of justice and destruction of evidence, and the need for the same aggressive oversight and legal proceedings in these scandals.
This is a vital effort by those charged with defending our constitution, as Ratner said, "This lawyers' letter and the growing number of signatures we'll have on it, and prominent people – it's a way of saying to Congress, ‘You need some backbone. You need to have a serious investigation, wherever it might go, on these issues that really have taken the United States out of the mainstream of human rights.' It's absolutely critical… We've opened up the door to illegality…. Unless we have accountability on those illegalities, we're going to be facing a very bleak future in which fundamental rights will not really be obeyed."
"Congress has a constitutional duty to oversee the activities of the executive branch and our entire system of government is threatened when Congress simply folds before an obstinate executive. Issuing contempt citations against Bolten, Miers, and Rove should be Congress's first order of business in 2008."
~Michael Ratner
Who knows, maybe a real movement to defend our constitutional government may be afoot after all?
If so that would be some of the best news I've heard in a long, long time.
Thanks for the news, Katrina.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 12/21/2007 @ 5:00pm
Well, good for them. Glad to see the bipartisan effort to hold criminals accountable.
I wonder if this has anything to do with that fire the other day, you know, the one that just happened to be right next to Dick's office! His name just surfaces in the most unusual situations!
Posted by MATTMAN at 12/21/2007 @ 5:02pm
By the way, Katrina, I wonder if you saw the link to a fascinating Mike Whitney piece I posted below your recent Tsar Putin post?
Here it is again: Putin Agonistes: Missile Defense will not be Deployed
excerpt:
But Putin is a realist and he knows that the US will not leave Eurasia without a fight. He's read the US National Security Strategy and he understands the ideological foundation for America's "unipolar" world model. The NSS is an unambiguous declaration of war against any nation that claims the right to to control its own resources or defend its own sovereignty against US interests. The NSS implies that nations' are required to open their markets to western multinationals and follow directives from Washington or accept a place on Bush's "enemies list". There's no middle ground. You are with us or with the terrorists. The NSS also entitles the United States to unilaterally wage aggressive warfare against any state or group that is perceived to be a potential threat to Washington's imperial ambitions. These so-called "preemptive" wars are carried out under the rubric of the "war on terror" which provides the justification for torture, abduction, ethnic cleansing and massive civilian casualties.
US National Security Strategy articulates in black and white what many critics had been saying for years; the United States owns the world and everyone else is just a guest.
Putin knows that there's no way to reconcile this doctrine with his own aspirations for an independent Russia but, so far, a clash has been averted.
He also knows that Bush is flanked by a band of fanatics and militarists who plan to weaken Russia, install an American stooge (like Georgia and Afghanistan) and divide the country into four regions. This strategy is clearly presented in forward-planning documents that have been drawn up in Washington think tanks that chart the course for US world domination. Brzezinski is quite candid about this in his article in Foreign Affairs:
"Given (Russia's) size and diversity, a decentralized political system and free-market economics would be most likely to unleash the creative potential of the Russian people and Russia's vast natural resources. A loosely confederated Russia -- composed of a European Russia, a Siberian Republic, and a Far Eastern Republic -- would also find it easier to cultivate closer economic relations with its neighbors. Each of the confederated entitles would be able to tap its local creative potential, stifled for centuries by Moscow's heavy bureaucratic hand. In turn, a decentralized Russia would be less susceptible to imperial mobilization." (Zbigniew Brzezinski,"A Geostrategy for Eurasia")
Posted by b_kool_66 at 12/21/2007 @ 5:05pm
And to all the rabid right-wingers here who love gettin' worked up over just about anything that smacks of reason try this one:
Death of the Dollar
It's two approx. 10 minute video clips, and they are entertaining.
Just wait 'til the trolls here see who produced them!
Posted by b_kool_66 at 12/21/2007 @ 5:11pm
Posted by B_KOOL_66 12/21/2007 @ 5:11pm
Thanks for the link, but I can't follow it from work so I'll have to get to it later.
Posted by MATTMAN at 12/21/2007 @ 5:48pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/21/2007 @ 5:07pm
Guess you missed that some of these guys are prominent republican lawyers.
Posted by MATTMAN at 12/21/2007 @ 5:49pm
Thanks for the link, but I can't follow it from work so I'll have to get to it later.
~MATTMAN @ 5:48pm
No problema, senor Matt.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 12/21/2007 @ 5:59pm
Well, one at least.
Posted by MATTMAN at 12/21/2007 @ 6:06pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/21/2007 @ 5:07pm
Why do you hate America and the American system of jurisprudence?
Time for you to move somewhere where they know how to treat evil lawyers. Pakistan has openings.
Poor John, lawyers=evil. Teachers=evil, drivers licenses=evil
Chinese socialist democracy=good.
Too bad Chimpy can't do this to those evil Bruce Fein types:
http://www.geocities.com/mstkg/tort.htm
We would be soooo much better off as a country.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/21/2007 @ 6:07pm
Posted by B_KOOL_66 12/21/2007 @ 5:59pm
Fascinating article link as well!
Posted by MATTMAN at 12/21/2007 @ 6:08pm
That's nice, Ms vanden Heuvel....
Now....maybe those lawyers better read this [democracynow.org]
Posted by Mask at 12/21/2007 @ 7:46pm
Holding my finger to the winds of cyberspace, here's [harpers.org] another expounding of a similar sentiment...
Posted by ttr at 12/21/2007 @ 8:22pm
Unfortunately, I don't believe anything is ever going to happen. I am certain that not a single member of the Bush Administration will ever be held to account for anything. This horrible situation has gone on for many years and nothing ever happened. I don't understand why anyone would think that 1000 lawyers or a million laywers for that matter would be able to change anything. I'd even bet on this.
I sincerely believe that he is the worst president of modern times and likely the worst ever. It is unfortuate for all of us that when the Bush official described the administration as "Being and empire and creating their own reality," he was right.
Look around. Brittany's pregnant sister is the big headline today.
Posted by Klancy52 at 12/21/2007 @ 8:26pm
Egad, lawyers agitating? what are we Pakistan?
Posted by Big Jake at 12/21/2007 @ 8:38pm
Perhaps part of the reluctance to pursue Impeachment proceedings whole heartedly is the remembrance of Clinton's flaccid debacle... and how mean-spirited it all seemed... and how pointless, really. Yet, on some levels it doesn't look good for the Constitution lately, and we may be well served by standing up to some of the more basic rights violations and swindles... as if to say... "Warning... thin ice up ahead!.. to those 'well attired' and glib Neo-Con skaters...
Posted by ttr at 12/21/2007 @ 9:00pm
I don't understand why anyone would think that 1000 lawyers or a million laywers for that matter would be able to change anything....
Posted by KLANCY52 12/21/2007 @ 8:26pm
I hear ya! Those "anyones", they just don't know, like us insiders do, that our BEST lawyers are already in Congress....and if they can't or won't "change anything", they win, again and again through re-elections. Reality is, winning re-elections is far, far easier than "change anything".
Posted by Happy at 12/21/2007 @ 9:55pm
Posted by MATTMAN 12/21/2007 @ 5:02pm
You know, that was the first thing that came to mind when I heard about the fire - wondered what would have been destroyed in the fire that is called for in the not-too-distant future
Posted by leftofcenter at 12/21/2007 @ 10:17pm
Posted by KLANCY52 12/21/2007 @ 8:26pm in part:
Unfortunately, I don't believe anything is ever going to happen.
I tend to agree but perhaps for a different reason. I can not imagine any scenario in which, given proof of an impeachable act, that the Democratic led congress would not pursue articles of impeachment against the Bush administration. They lack the proof. Maybe these 1000 lawyers and their petition will bring the administration to its knees, I suspect their intent is otherwise. They have not the proof so they will bring endless investigations and tie up the last year of Bush's term. That is fine, but at what cost? The children who are our elected representatives will play tit for tat and nothing will get done anywhere in Washington.
Posted by Econ Major at 12/21/2007 @ 10:25pm
nothing will get done anywhere in Washington.
Posted by ECON MAJOR 12/21/2007 @ 10:25pm | ignore this person
given Bush and the repugs record that is not such a bad thing. what would YOU like to get done in Washington?
Posted by Big Jake at 12/21/2007 @ 10:58pm
we're number one
LOST
Blog by Erla Ósk Arnardóttir Lillendahl:
(English Translation: Gunnar Tómasson, Certified translator)
During the last twenty-four hours I have probably experienced the greatest humiliation to which I have ever been subjected. During these last twenty-four hours I have been handcuffed and chained, denied the chance to sleep, been without food and drink and been confined to a place without anyone knowing my whereabouts, imprisoned. Now I am beginning to try to understand all this, rest and review the events which beganas innocently as possible.
Last Sunday I and a few other girls began our trip to New York. We were going to shop and enjoy the Christmas spirit. We made ourselves comfortable on first class, drank white wine and looked forward to go shopping, eat good food and enjoy life. When we landed at JFK airport the traditional clearance process began. We were screened and went on to passport control. As I waited for them to finish examining my passport I heard an official say that there was something which needed to be looked at more closely and I was directed to the work station of Homeland Security. There I was told that according to their records I had overstayed my visa by 3 weeks in 1995. For this reason I would not be admitted to the country and would be sent home on the next flight. I looked at the official in disbelief and told him that I had in fact visited New York after the trip in 1995 without encountering any difficulties. A detailed interrogation session ensued. I was photographed and fingerprinted. I was asked questions which I felt had nothing to do with the issue at hand. I was forbiddento contact anyone to advise of my predicament and although I was invited at the outset to contact the Icelandic consul or embassy, that invitation was later withdrawn. I don't know why. I was then made to wait while they sought further information, and sat on a chair before the authority for 5 hours. I saw the officials in this section handle other cases and it was clear that these were men anxious to demonstrate their power. Small kings with megalomania. I was careful to remain completely cooperative, for I did not yet believe that they planned to deport me because of my "crime". When 5 hours had passed and I had been awake for 24 hours, I was told that they were waiting for officials who would take me to a kind of waiting room. There I would be given a bed to rest in, some food and I would be searched. What they thought they might find I cannot possibly imagine. Finally guards appeared who transported me to the new place. I saw the bed as if in a mirage, for I was absolutely exhausted. What turned out was something else. I was taken to another office exactly like the one where I had been before and once again a long wait ensued. In all, it turned out to be 5 hours. At this office all my things were taken from me. I succeeded in sendinga single sms to worried relatives and friends when I was granted a bathroom break. After that the cell phone was taken from me. After I had been sitting for 5 hours I was told that they were now waiting for guards who would take me to a place where I could rest and eat. Then I was placed in a cubicle which looked like an operating room. Attached to the walls were 4 steel plates, probably intended to serve as bed anda toilet. I was exhausted, tired and hungry. I didn't understand the officials' conduct, for they were treating me like a very dangerous criminal. Soon thereafter I was removed from the cubicle and two armed guards placed me up against a wall. A chain was fastened around my waist and I was handcuffed to the chain. Then my legs were placed in chains. I asked for permission to make a telephone call but they refused. So secured, I was taken from the airport terminal in full sight of everybody. I have seldom felt so bad, so humiliated and all because I had taken a longer vacation than allowed under the law.
They would not tell me where they were taking me. The trip took close to one hour and although I couldn't see clearly outside the vehicle I knew that we had crossed over into New Jersey. We ended up in front of a jail. I could hardly believe that this was happening. Was I really about to be jailed? I was led inside in the chains and there yet another interrogation session ensued. I was fingerprinted once again and photographed. I was made to undergo a medical examination, I was searched and then I was placed in a jail cell. I was asked absurd questions such as: When did you have your last period? What do you believe in? Have you ever tried to commit suicide?
I was completely exhausted, tired and cold. Fourteen hours after I had landed I had something to eat and drink for the first time. I was given porridge and bread. But it did not help much. I was afraid and the attitude of all who handled me was abysmal to say the least. They did not speak to me as much as snap at me. Once again I asked to make a telephone call and this time the answer was positive. I was relieved but the relief was short-lived. For the telephone was set up for collect calls only and it was not possible to make overseas calls. The jail guard held my cell phone in his hand. I explained to him that I could not make a call from the jail telephone and asked to be allowed to make one call from my own phone. That was out of the question. I spent the next 9 hours in a small, dirty cell. The only thing in there was a narrow steel board which extended out from the wall, a sink and toilet. I wish I never experience again in my life the feeling of confinement and helplessness which I experienced there.
I was hugely relieved when, at last, I was told that I was to be taken to the airport, that is to say until I was again handcuffed and chained.Then I could take no more and broke down and cried. I begged them at least to leave out the leg chains but my request was ignored. When we arrived at the airport, another jail guard took pity on me and removed the legchains. Even so I was led through a full airport terminal handcuffed and escorted by armed men. I felt terrible. On seeing this, people must think that there goes a very dangerous criminal. In this condition I was led up into the Icelandair waiting room, and was kept handcuffed until I entered the embarkation corridor. I was completely run down by all this in both body and spirit. Fortunately I could count on good people and both Einar (the captain) and the crew did all which they could to try to assist me. My friend Auður was in close contact with my sister and the consul and embassy had been contacted. However, all had received misleading information and all had been told that I had been detained at the airport terminal, not that I had been put in jail. Now the Foreign Ministry is looking into the matter and I hope to receive some explanation why I was treated this way.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/21/2007 @ 11:47pm
what a country.
http://eggmann.blog.is/blog/eggmann/
Posted by Big Jake at 12/21/2007 @ 11:48pm
MY FIRST REACTION WAS, "1000 LAWYERS, O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-H..."
I mean, I really do hope they nail the suckers but forgive me for being (with aplologies to A.A. Milne) one Very Sceptical Bear....
Posted by w_m_bear at 12/22/2007 @ 12:16am
Posted 12/21/2007 @ 4:36pm
Lawyers Stepping Up
KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL
you're talking PAKISTAN, right?
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/22/2007 @ 02:53am
PAY FOR THE COURTS AND THE PEOPLES TIME THEY WILL BE WASTING.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/21/2007 @ 5:07pm
i bet you'd rather see the whole affair settled on "Judge Judy", right?
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/22/2007 @ 02:56am
Posted by TTR 12/21/2007 @ 9:00pm
not enough votes in the senate to convict.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/22/2007 @ 02:58am
Posted by BIG JAKE 12/21/2007 @ 11:47pm
I'll bet you Big Jake, she won't overstay her visa anywhere, ever again.
Posted by lrjones4 at 12/22/2007 @ 05:14am
you're talking PAKISTAN, right?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 12/22/2007 @ 02:53am
Is this the end of representative democracy in the US FZ? US lawyers (supplemented with law students) stepping up to replace voters and the American way with their particular interpretation of the Constitution.
Sort of bugger elections and the electors we'll decide what's best for them. Yep inspired by the Pakistan lawyers and about as useless in terms of representative democracy:
AMERICAN LAWYERS DEFENDING THE CONSTITUTION
"Please forward this post, the FireDogLake post, or the American Freedom Campaign site address to every lawyer you know.
"If you are a lawyer or a student of law, you can follow the link at the end of this post to add your signature."
"(If this campaign is successful, maybe next we can get physicians and medical students organized to demand universal health care! I can dream, can't I?)"
"We, the undersigned lawyers in the United States, have been inspired by the many lawyers in Pakistan who have risked their own liberty and careers in an effort to preserve their nation's freedoms."
"Their courage has deepened our own resolve to defend the rule of law in our nation. As lawyers, we have both a moral and professional responsibility to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States."
"To that end, we are committed to creating a movement of lawyers in this nation dedicated to monitoring and, when appropriate, challenging the actions of our government when those actions threaten our nation's freedoms."
FEIN AND HIS INSATIABLE LUST FOR THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS:
"Notable published writings by Fein include articles advocating the impeachment of former U.S. president Bill Clinton and current U.S. vice-president Dick Cheney and president George W Bush."
AND HIS PRESENT POLICIES AND POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS:
American Freedom Agenda From Wikipedia,
"The American Freedom Agenda (AFA) is an American organization, established in March 2007, which represents disaffected conservatives who are demanding that the Republican Party return to its traditional mistrust of concentrated government power. It is "a coalition established to restore checks and balances and civil liberties protections under assault by the executive branch." It was founded by Bruce Fein (Chairman), Bob Barr, David Keene and Richard Viguerie.[1]"
The ten points of the pledge are:
* No military commissions except on the battlefield
* No evidence extracted by torture or coercion
* No detaining citizens as unlawful enemy combatants
* Restoring Habeas Corpus for suspected alien enemy combatants
* Prohibiting warrantless spying by the National Security Agency in violation of law
* Renouncing Presidential signing statements
* Ending secret government by invoking State Secrets Privilege
* Stopping extraordinary renditions
* Stopping threats to prosecuting journalists under the Espionage Act
* Ending the listing of individuals or organizations as terrorists based on secret evidence
On March 20, 2007, Ron Paul became the first presidential candidate to sign the American Freedom Agenda Pledge.[1][2] The group labeled presidential candidate Mitt Romney "unfit to serve as president" when he failed to sign the pledge.[3] Steve Kubby, currently a candidate for the Libertarian nomination for President, has also signed the pledge."
"On October 15th, 2007, Representative Ron Paul introduced House Resolution 3835, the "American Freedom Agenda Act of 2007" before Congress [4], which sought to legislate the aims of the American Freedom Agenda."
Posted by lrjones4 at 12/22/2007 @ 06:32am
Well, sorry, Ms vanden Heuvel...lotta skepticism from ALL sides on those guys actually doing anything (I think most know that impeachment was atleast 90% dead when Pelosi said "off the table"...and 95% dead when John Conyers kicked Cindy Sheehan out of his office and called the cops on her!)
And given now the appearance of RESE and her usual 30 Cut & Pastes about asbestos, Jesuits, and Halliburton concentration camps...this thread is really useless.
(BTW, RESE, four months to go!)
Posted by Mask at 12/22/2007 @ 07:32am
If these lawyers lose their suits, and they will,...they should be made to PAY FOR THE COURTS AND THE PEOPLES TIME THEY WILL BE WASTING.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/21/2007 @ 5:07pm
JM,
And if they win......don't be so sure that they'll lose. Granted the Bush administration controls the supreme court, but even the supreme court justices have to follow the constitution no matter which political stripe they may have.
Those 1000 attorneys aren't just hammering the Bush administration, they are also hammering congress basically for being complacent in their oversight of the executive branch. Our entire government has been turned upside down.
If lying about a bj is an impeachable offense, then W and Cheney's advisors have perjured themselves to the nth degree. Let's see, we have Gonz, Libby, Harriet Miers, Bolton and on and on and on. When you consider that these people are acting in the interests of their bosses, then it would appear that their bosses are aware of their less than honest meetings or lack of meetings with Congress.
Do you think Congress is a legitimate branch of the government, or do you think the founders just put it there as a toy for W and his buddies to screw with?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 12/22/2007 @ 08:32am
wonder who will pay for all those billable hours.....
If these lawyers lose their suits, and they will,...they should be made to PAY FOR THE COURTS AND THE PEOPLES TIME THEY WILL BE WASTING.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/21/2007 @ 5:07pm
JM, I almost forgot. Who had to pay for Kenneth Starr's witch hunt which truly was a witch hunt. He was appointed by a rethug congress to investigate the "Whitewater Scandal" and ended up using evidence that Clinton committed perjury about a B.J.
Who paid for that? We did. So knock this whining off about possibly having to pay for investigations into this administrations transgressions against the constitution. These transgressions against the constitution are much more dangerous to the U.S. than Clinton's lying about a B.J. If you can't see that, you are completely blind.
I guess it's alright to use tax payer money to line the pockets of the wealthy, but when some of that tax money might be used to protect your average Joe, you have a problem with that?! You are showing your true colors here.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 12/22/2007 @ 08:42am
maasch is like one of those boothside jukeboxes they used to have at the diner, except he has only a handful of tunes.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/22/2007 @ 10:04am
I'll bet you Big Jake, she won't overstay her visa anywhere, ever again.
Posted by LRJONES4 12/22/2007 @ 05:14am | ignore this person
you're a real humanitarian. may you follow your discarded PM into oblivion.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/22/2007 @ 10:07am
It is settled before it starts,,there is no crime.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/22/2007 @ 04:30am
You have never answered my question, what is it like to be omniscient?
Nope, nobody has been kidnapped and sent to third countries for "harsh interrogation", no warrentless wiretaps were authorized by chimpy, no political influence was brought to bear on the Justice Dept, no "no-bid" contracts were given out to republican donors, hundreds of signing statements were not signed, nobody EVER led to congress.
Keep them blinders on, ignore the thousands of political prisoners in socialist China, rail against American Socialists, mock lawyers rights to bring attention to issues of Law. Just keep counting your shekels and figuring out how your fat camel ass is going to get through Christs needle. After all, if some people are making huge bucks, who gives a shit about the abuses of government.
Oh, wait, thats right, government should stay out of peoples lives, unless those people make you feel afraid, then they should be trucked around the world and given over to despots and be called "the most vicious", without trials, with secret evidence and no access to evil lawyers.
But, if you have to wait in line at the DMV, well, that is a sign of gubment run amok. You are correct, we should get our priorities straight.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:04am
led=lied to congress.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:06am
I still cannot figure out why those that fear government the most are the most unwilling to open up hearings on impeachment. Is it because, like the Plame affair, your talking head points might actually face scrutiny?
Is it too much to ask that some questions be answered?
Did chimpy do this stuff, outlined by the republican the republicans rallied behind to go after the egregious felonies of the Clintons:
1. He has spied on American citizens on American soil on his say-so alone in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, and, the Fourth Amendment;
2. He has concealed from Congress and the American people spying programs to make them unaccountable to law or to supervision by a co-equal branch of government;
3. He has conducted secret government shielded from congressional oversight or public scrutiny to detect and to deter lawlessness or mal-administration by refusing to permit current or former government officials from testifying or answering questions on such matters as the firing of U.S. attorneys or unchecked spying on American citizens by the National Security Agency, all of this in violation of the constitutional principle that the people must know what their government is doing so their actions and political loyalties can be adjusted accordingly;
5. He has issued executive orders that authorize a financial death penalty on any person the president believes creates a risk of undermining his foreign policy goals in Iraq or Lebanon without providing notice or an opportunity to be heard in violation of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment;
6. He has detained and claims authority to detain American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants indefinitely on his say-so alone based on secret evidence and for actions wholly unrelated to battlefield conflict;
8. He has made Americans less safe by kidnapping, imprisoning and torturing people abroad who he thinks are criminals or terrorists on his say-so alone, a practice that has deterred foreign countries from cooperating with the United States in opposing international terrorism and has created international law precedents that would justify the kidnapping, imprisonment and torture of Americans by foreign governments that suspect they sympathize with their domestic political opponents;
9. He has claimed authority to break and enter homes, open mail or torture American citizens to gather foreign intelligence; and,
10. He has declared every square inch of the United States an active battlefield where military force and military law can supersede civilian law enforcement at any time by presidential decree.
Gee, I cannot wait to read the defense of hillary that is going to come from these same people that want Chimpy do be able to do whatever the hell he wants, after all, she may just be the Unitary Executive you are cheering for. You put Clinton under oath to talk about sex, is it jut too far out to ask Chimpy to take an oath to his own God and answer some questions about national security?
But, that is what we have come to expect from those that would rather count money than care about what the largest socialist country in the world does to those that want to talk about the Dalai Llama or meditate in a park. http://www.geocities.com/mstkg/tort.htm
After all, if the chinese get free speech, it might undermine the labor pool, and if Chimpy has to answer questions the whole country will collapse in debt.
.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:22am
Bruce Fein, liberal scourge:
He has trashed the Roe v. Wade abortion decision, stating that it required a "hallucinogenic intellectual flight" on the part of Justice Harry Blackmun to draft the opinion. "President George W. Bush should pack the United States Supreme Court with philosophical clones of Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas and defeated nominee Robert H. Bork," he wrote in Washington Lawyer in February 2005. He voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and he applauded the nomination of John Roberts as Bush's "finest hour."
So why has Fein been collaborating with the ACLU and providing damning testimony to the Senate about President Bush? Why is he for censuring the President and even, perhaps, impeaching him? This is what did it: The disclosure that the National Security Agency (NSA) is engaged in the domestic wiretapping of American citizens in the United States without first obtaining warrants. The Bush Administration had crossed the line. Within twenty-four hours, Fein went into constitutional combat mode. And he hasn't stopped since.
For Fein, there is nothing really to debate; the law is settled. In 1978, Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, permitting the government to conduct electronic surveillance on citizens in the United States if it first gets a warrant from the FISA court, which exists for that reason only. The FISA court rarely has denied such a request.
But the NSA has repeatedly conducted such surveillance without going to the FISA court for warrants. Every forty-five days, President Bush has been issuing Executive Orders saying that it is within his authority to bypass the FISA court. And he says he'll keep doing so.
"There is not a single Supreme Court case that insinuates that the President can violate a federal statute in order to gather foreign intelligence," Fein tells me. "It was a flagrant violation of the Constitution, which I feel that citizens as well as the government have a duty to defend."
But, the talking heads that told us Saddam had nukes and anthrax, that Plame was not covert, that everybody captured by the US is a terrorist, that Exxon/Mobil cares about energy independence etc etc, are a better conservative voice than the cast off Fein.
ALL HAIL KING CHIMPY MCFLIGHTSUIT
HAIL CHIMPY!
HAIL CHIMPY!
HAIL CHIMPY!
You can do no wrong, for you are God's chosen leader
One congressman -- the Hungarian-born Tom Lantos, a Democrat from California and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress -- mentioned that the Scandinavian countries were viewed more positively. Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.
''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''
Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.
Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''
ALL HAIL CHIMPY!!
He has a degree in history.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:39am
Maasch knows about boards and how to run companies, and he puts his unquestioning support behind Chimpy.
In 1990, a few years after receiving salvation, Bush was still bumping along. Much is apparent from one of the few instances of disinterested testimony to come from this period. It is the voice of David Rubenstein, managing director and cofounder of the Carlyle Group, the Washington-based investment firm that is one of the town's most powerful institutions and a longtime business home for the president's father. In 1989, the catering division of Marriott was taken private and established as Caterair by a group of Carlyle investors. Several old-guard Republicans, including the former Nixon aide Fred Malek, were involved.
Rubenstein described that time to a convention of pension managers in Los Angeles last year, recalling that Malek approached him and said: ''There is a guy who would like to be on the board. He's kind of down on his luck a bit. Needs a job. . . . Needs some board positions.'' Though Rubenstein didn't think George W. Bush, then in his mid-40's, ''added much value,'' he put him on the Caterair board. ''Came to all the meetings,'' Rubenstein told the conventioneers. ''Told a lot of jokes. Not that many clean ones. And after a while I kind of said to him, after about three years: 'You know, I'm not sure this is really for you. Maybe you should do something else. Because I don't think you're adding that much value to the board. You don't know that much about the company.' He said: 'Well, I think I'm getting out of this business anyway. And I don't really like it that much. So I'm probably going to resign from the board.' And I said thanks. Didn't think I'd ever see him again.''
Three years sitting on a board, offering nothing but off-color jokes. Nope, connections don't matter.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:47am
Posted by LRJONES4 12/22/2007 @ 06:32am
Didn't you know that Barr, Keene and Paul are closet socialists Hell bent on bringing own America?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:50am
you're a real humanitarian. may you follow your discarded PM into oblivion.
Posted by BIG JAKE 12/22/2007 @ 10:07am
Thanks for the kind words but please put you're hanky back in your pocket you sook Big Jake and grow up. Anyone who breaks immigration laws in most other countries is likely to get similar treatment.
Well most conservative Aussies are pretty happy with our new PM, including this one, as he implements some of our old PM's policies. So far so good. You may be interested in his approach to Iraq as below. But please BJ keep that hanky in your pocket. OK then just a few crocodile tears from you for American wheat farmers after our Kev stitches them up (again).
http://tinyurl.com/2zmqts
Looks like we'll be getting some of your share of that stolen Iraq oil too, so as you can see, K.Rudd, like our last PM, ain't a fool or a Leftie crybaby for that matter.
Posted by lrjones4 at 12/22/2007 @ 11:51am
Woops, Freudian slip
Bringing Down America.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:52am
Posted by CRABWALK 12/22/2007 @ 11:22am | ignore this person
and that's just the stuff we know about. my hunch is that it's like an iceberg, where most of it is below the surface.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/22/2007 @ 11:53am
Anyone who breaks immigration laws in most other countries is likely to get similar treatment.
this is absolute bullshit. she was let into the country before without problem. she could have been put on the next plane at worst.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/22/2007 @ 11:55am
From a fellow Christian:
A few months later, on Feb. 1, 2002, Jim Wallis of the Sojourners stood in the Roosevelt Room for the introduction of Jim Towey as head of the president's faith-based and community initiative. John DiIulio, the original head, had left the job feeling that the initiative was not about ''compassionate conservatism,'' as originally promised, but rather a political giveaway to the Christian right, a way to consolidate and energize that part of the base.
Moments after the ceremony, Bush saw Wallis. He bounded over and grabbed the cheeks of his face, one in each hand, and squeezed. ''Jim, how ya doin', how ya doin'!'' he exclaimed. Wallis was taken aback. Bush excitedly said that his massage therapist had given him Wallis's book, ''Faith Works.'' His joy at seeing Wallis, as Wallis and others remember it, was palpable -- a president, wrestling with faith and its role at a time of peril, seeing that rare bird: an independent counselor. Wallis recalls telling Bush he was doing fine, '''but in the State of the Union address a few days before, you said that unless we devote all our energies, our focus, our resources on this war on terrorism, we're going to lose.' I said, 'Mr. President, if we don't devote our energy, our focus and our time on also overcoming global poverty and desperation, we will lose not only the war on poverty, but we'll lose the war on terrorism.'''
Bush replied that that was why America needed the leadership of Wallis and other members of the clergy.
''No, Mr. President,'' Wallis says he told Bush, ''We need your leadership on this question, and all of us will then commit to support you. Unless we drain the swamp of injustice in which the mosquitoes of terrorism breed, we'll never defeat the threat of terrorism.''
Bush looked quizzically at the minister, Wallis recalls. They never spoke again after that.
''When I was first with Bush in Austin, what I saw was a self-help Methodist, very open, seeking,'' Wallis says now. ''What I started to see at this point was the man that would emerge over the next year -- a messianic American Calvinist. He doesn't want to hear from anyone who doubts him.''
HAIL CHIMPY!
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 11:56am
Clearly the women from Iceland was a danger to the citizens of America and needed to be chained to a wall and kept from calling her embassy.
Perfectly acceptable way of dealing with a bureaucratic snafu.
After all, Padilla needed to be kept on a ship at sea to prevent him calling down his arsenal of dirty bombs. I am sure the terrorist from Iceland represented a similar threat.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 12:01pm
But, the Bin Ladens and Saudi royals should get a free pass out of the country after a Bin Laden led crowd of Saudis flattened our symbol of American enterprise.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 12:04pm
How many Tough Guy Ranchers from Texas would admit that they have a massage therapist?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/22/2007 @ 12:06pm
Posted by CRABWALK 12/22/2007 @ 11:50am
Hi Crabs, thanks for that info.
I don't know about you but lawyers have never been on my list of saints. Even the so called conservative ones. Maybe one reason that your mob is having trouble with your House and Senate is because both legislatures are full of solicitors? Now there's a thought for you.
4am here. Just back from a Chrissie Party. We're religious like that, no happy holiday stuff for Aussies who generally get taxis home, from such religious celebrations (to avoid DUI tickets). Not sure this is making much sense Crabs but in case I don't catch up with you before the 25th a very happy Christmas to you and yours.
Posted by lrjones4 at 12/22/2007 @ 12:09pm
I am sure the terrorist from Iceland represented a similar threat.
Posted by CRABWALK 12/22/2007 @ 12:01pm | ignore this person
sorry I couldn't post a photo of the young lady, she is a beauty. she was here to SPEND MONEY.
Posted by Big Jake at 12/22/2007 @ 12:12pm
Three years sitting on a board, offering nothing but off-color jokes. Nope, connections don't matter.
Posted by CRABWALK 12/22/2007 @ 11:47am
That's OK crab. JM has his head rammed north so bad he is completely oblivious to anything. You can apply controls theory to any business. You have an input and output, distubrances,etc.
If money out isn't greater than money in, the plant or feedback loop needs to be altered. You can apply several methods such as feed forward, dual loops etc. But, the bottom line is making the cash flow model work. Just like circuit design. Modeling is everything, just choose the correct model. Inside information is their other big key, and that's where the old boys club comes into play.
Anybody with access to matlab and a few models can do this. JM is so full of himself and his business associates that he really does believe he's better than everyone else. He's only kidding himself.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 12/22/2007 @ 3:40pm
Explain to me how the rich guy lines his pockets by taking tax money from the poor...who pay NOTHING? Does he line his pockets by KEEPING his own money from...you? the ever gracious "Progressive" who are always at the ready to relieve him of his pocket linings?
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/22/2007 @ 1:59pm
Defense contracting, every time the fed infuses cash into the banks to cover their asses, doling money out to foreign governments that in turn play ball with Halliburton, the oil companies, the defense contractors once again.
That money is given away and it sure as hell isn't for democracy. It's for profits. What planet do you live on JM?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 12/22/2007 @ 3:45pm
It's about time. Given the risks the Pakistani lawyers took, it's about time our lawyers stood up for the Constitution.
Posted by nganga1 at 12/22/2007 @ 7:01pm
Maybe someone needs to ask where Bush and Cheney are going with all this? It is hard to conceive that will all the mechanisms in place for a fascist state that they are just going to leave office when their terms run out.
Posted by gwpriester at 12/22/2007 @ 7:34pm
Posted by GWPRIESTER 12/22/2007 @ 7:34pm
Always hear this and always ask....
So...
Are you planning on moving soon?
No?....oh, you mean that
(A) you're going to deliberately live in a fascist state?
(B) you don't REALLY believe what you're posting?
Which is it?
Posted by Mask at 12/22/2007 @ 9:28pm
I have been advocating for this type of action for some time. We don't need to impeach these criminals at all. We need to take legal action against them. Let them finish their term. But, let them know that this is not over. They must be accountable for the crimes against humanity and the Constitution. The 1000 Lawyers are brave patriots. Knowing that they will be targetted by this administration for their actions. I support their efforts whole-heartedly.
Posted by neogejo at 12/22/2007 @ 9:43pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/22/2007 @ 1:59pm
don't be so foolish. you have repeatedly been told that it's a lie that the poor don't pay ANY taxes.they pay plenty, salestax, FICA. so just shut yer trap with that bull, OK?
Posted by the Badman at 12/22/2007 @ 11:15pm
When your on the same human rights plane as China you've come to know your American principles are now meaningless. If your government has no respect for democracy and freedom, how UnAmerican is that?
Posted by megaburp at 12/23/2007 @ 12:11am
.....it's a lie that the poor don't pay ANY taxes.they pay plenty, salestax, FICA....
Posted by THE BADMAN 12/22/2007 @ 11:15pm
The working "poor" do in fact pay taxes, just not very much.
The "poor" don't make much, under $15 to 20k per year. For them, what they do pay in FICA, they get back more than they pay in....it's how the system was set up as a `safety net'.
Besides FICA, the poor pays little sales tax since food, outside of fast/restaurant food, is exempt....and food takes up a large % of their income. Besides, many of them get assistance via food stamps.
No matter your personal belief, the "poor" are net consumers of taxes, not contributors! Otherwise, we won't have Liberals to distribute money to them, right?
Posted by Happy at 12/23/2007 @ 12:13am
To everyone...
I happened to be surfing the web today, and came across this new blog. In it, a gentleman discusses self-imposed waterboarding, and how he reacted to it. I think it is an interesting read. It may shed some light on the waterboarding-as-torture debate that has been going on here recently.
http: //boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448717 [boards.straightdope.com]
Posted by jorcheim at 12/23/2007 @ 12:42am
Provoking us to 'rich versus poor'
While America is just, not sure...
Is a foolish little ploy
Only guillotines enjoy
For everyone must freedom here procure
ttr
Posted by ttr at 12/23/2007 @ 12:51am
you are still clueless. they pay for gas, heating oil, to clothe their children. they pay a premium on medical services if they can't afford insurance. they are working poor. and you go through life thinking that they've got it made. yeah, right.
Posted by the Badman at 12/23/2007 @ 01:22am
Posted by THE BADMAN 12/23/2007 @ 01:22am
you are still clueless. they pay for gas, heating oil, to clothe their children. they pay a premium on medical services if they can't afford insurance. they are working poor. and you go through life thinking that they've got it made. yeah, right.
Dont forget the stupidity tax, aka 'the lottery'. It's the tax only the stupid pay. States make big money from it, mostly from poor people. It helps pay for all of those programs for...poor people.
Posted by pontificus at 12/23/2007 @ 06:38am
Posted by MADLIB 12/23/2007 @ 02:05am
I don't remember ever getting ALL of my taxes back. Or food stamps for that matter.
Most of the taxes that the poor pay are in FICA deductions. And you generally don't get those back until you retire, whereupon most people get far more back than they put in, which has led us to the coming intergenerational showdown as demographic trends cause the Ponzi scheme to collapse.
Posted by pontificus at 12/23/2007 @ 06:50am
Hey CRABBIE, what's up with KVH calling the Bush Administration's actions only 'potentially' criminal? I thought you folks had already determined that they WERE criminal in pretty much every respect? Is KVH a right-wing plant, trying to sow seeds of doubt among the faithful with all of this 'potential' talk?
Posted by pontificus at 12/23/2007 @ 06:53am
many people here labor under the assumption that only the poor enjoy the gov't benefits that spring from collected tax money. nothing could be further from the truth. everyone benefits from the collected taxes, the rich far more so. the benefits are progressive and that's why the tax is progressive.
Posted by brannigan at 12/23/2007 @ 08:42am
1,000 lawyers=a good start. Well, the joke used to be at the bottome of the ocean, but signing on to a rebuke of congress is good enough for me. What is happening in our country is so much beyond Bush/Cheney....yes, I believe that impeachment is mandaory, and that criminal proscecution is desirable for them BUT the system that has been building to protect them has got to be dismantled or the next person "in power" will have the same smoke screen in place.
I have to wonder if the German people watched in stunned disbelief while the nazis took over their country and began their reign. Did they feel as ineffectual and frustrated as we?? Was it slow and carefully crafted, that take over? Did some say,"Oh, don't complain, it would be unpatriotic."?
Posted by gdwtch52 at 12/23/2007 @ 10:11am
It's excellent to hear that this is happening, especially since the Democratic Party has been soft on these criminals.
Posted by Tom Paine Jr at 12/23/2007 @ 10:15am
The subversion of constitutional democracy should have everyone worried, and it is an outright grab for authoritarian and totalitarian powers that ignore the rule of law and precedent. If lawyers can not rely on the rule of law being applied and carried out by the judiciary, we are reduced to a legal system that relies on bribes and politics....the proverbial greasing of the wheel. Lawyers swear to uphold the constitution and for good reason. Without it, they can not "practice law" but instead are reduced to a system of justice that is determined by the caprice of "the decider"......they become little more than political yes men and lobbyists. I am sure that Alberto would be totally comfortable with this, but most lawyers are or should be decidely and vehemently against such a system.
The refusal of Congress to take the steps necessary to restore "law and order" in our governing branch is pathetic, and it reeks of politics and self serving interest that may belie a belief in and support of authoritarian rule and the entrenchment of power wherein things like the constitution only get in the way. After all, most of our representatives are against term limits and meaningful campaign finance reform.
History tells us that when the arrogance of rule becomes intolerable, change is often dramatic, and violent. Old maxims should be heeded....give an inch.....take a mile. It is increasingly becoming apparent that Congress is not part of the solution, but part of the problem. Ignoring their mandated oversight and authority is breach of their duties under the constitution, which they too are sworn to uphold in their oaths of office. There is little reason to believe that Congress will "restore" any of our rights based solely on the notion that it is the right thing to do.....and the law.
Posted by OneVote at 12/23/2007 @ 10:40am
Posted by ONEVOTE 12/23/2007 @ 10:40am
History tells us that when the arrogance of rule becomes intolerable, change is often dramatic, and violent. Old maxims should be heeded....give an inch.....take a mile. It is increasingly becoming apparent that Congress is not part of the solution, but part of the problem. Ignoring their mandated oversight and authority is breach of their duties under the constitution, which they too are sworn to uphold in their oaths of office. There is little reason to believe that Congress will "restore" any of our rights based solely on the notion that it is the right thing to do.....and the law.
Who really believes this crap?
Posted by pontificus at 12/23/2007 @ 11:10am
Posted by GDWTCH52 12/23/2007 @ 10:11am
I have to wonder if the German people watched in stunned disbelief while the nazis took over their country and began their reign. Did they feel as ineffectual and frustrated as we?? Was it slow and carefully crafted, that take over? Did some say,"Oh, don't complain, it would be unpatriotic."?
Actually, Hitler's takeover in Germany was completed with the assassination of hundreds of opposition figures within a single night. Goebbels had already stated years before that if the Nazis were allowed into power, they would never relinquish it.
However, you loons need to get a new sheet of music, and fast. Bush will leave office on schedule in January '09, and you'll need new bogemen with which to frighten each other around the campfire.
Posted by pontificus at 12/23/2007 @ 11:15am
It's about time we saw some concrete action from the legal peanut gallery. You knew they've been watching in amazement. [onlysayin.blogspot.com]
Posted by powder_monkey at 12/23/2007 @ 11:22am
Posted by LRJONES4 12/22/2007 @ 12:09pm
Back at ya, LeeRoy. Kudos to you for calling for a cab to get you home. But, around me, rural America, DUI enforcement is taken as excessive gubment interference in personal lives.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:00pm
LRJones-I see that you are uninformed.The reason that Americans say happy holidays is because we have a holiday season that starts with Thanksgiving and ends with New Years day.You do come up with lame propaganda that is never reality based..
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/23/2007 @ 12:09pm
Why do the top 1% pay the most taxes?
Because they have the most money. If they shared that wealth, the tax burden would be spread.
Are we a Christian country when the top hold most of the wealth?
Help me out with some stats. I think it is something like
In 1998, they owned 59 percent of all wealth. Or to put it another way, the top 5 percent had more wealth than the remaining 95 percent of the population, collectively.
A household in the middle -- the median household -- has wealth of about $62,000. $62,000 is not insignificant, but if you consider that the top 1 percent of households' average wealth is $12.5 million, you can see what a difference there is in the distribution. (stats from Edward Wolf, economist NYU)
So, why should they NOT pay most of the tax. They benefit as much as the poorest, maybe more than the middle. They get airports, regulation of their banking and investments. They get military support for their international investments. They get rivers and harbors cleaned out so their ships can move freely. They get to effect gubment more than the poor, heck they get to write some regulation just the way they want it. they get invited to sit at the table and appoint each other to boards.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:10pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/22/2007 @ 2:08pm
List your disagreements with the policies of Bush.
Posted by PONTIFICUS 12/23/2007 @ 06:53am
If you paid attention, instead of making up beliefs to assign oto others, you would know that I think KVH is a poor mouthpiece for the "left" .
As mentioned above, I want hearings to prove that Chimpy violated US law. In one instance, FISA warrants, he has admitted in public that he violated the law.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:13pm
Actually, Hitler's takeover in Germany was completed with the assassination of hundreds of opposition figures within a single night.
actually the incident to which you are referring, was "the night of the long knives", and the victims were not opposition figures but a wing of the nazi party, and old friend and rival Röhm. I refer you to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Röhm
Posted by brannigan at 12/23/2007 @ 12:13pm
We have no idea HOW MANY PEOPLE George Bush has had water-boarded.
We have no idea WHAT TORTURE TECHNIQUES George Bush has order used.
We have no idea HOW MUCH VIDEOTAPE EVIDENCE has been ordered destroyed.
We have no idea whether it was just "top Al Qaida leaders", who were tortured. The media simply reports these myths as true. We have no idea whether it was really just overseas calls with one end calling from Al Qaida. The media simply reports what George Bush says as true.
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 12:22pm
Posted by BRANNIGAN 12/23/2007 @ 12:13pm
PONTIFLOGIC has that name for a reason.
He also thinks that nobody but the US celebrates thanksgiving, that Plame was a janitor level employee and....
OH gosh, don't get me started.
MAASCH, you are right that I am approaching RESIAN levels. I thought about apologizing for that the other day. But, I know you guys rarely read links, like this one
http://www.geocities.com/mstkg/tort.htm
have you visited this site to see how your Chinese gubment partners treat those that don't want to play the game the socialist way?
PONTIFLOGIC have you visited that link to see "slavery" in action?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:24pm
LRJones-A religious person would not refer to a Christmas party as a Chrissie party.Nor would a religious person view Christmas as a time to get drunk and need to take a cab home.
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/23/2007 @ 12:27pm
Please keep in mind why you Christians celebrate X-mas when you do, why the Trinity came to be included in a mono-theistic religion and why shiny objects on trees is now a "tradition".
and enjoy the solstice!!
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:28pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 12/23/2007 @ 12:27pm
Excellent points.
(I just watched my neighbor drive his Jeep 200 yards to go get his newspaper, as I watched Christians tie a few on last night at the family X-mas party in celebration of Jesus birth in a manger. Ain't America grand!)
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:32pm
Crabby-It has been proven that there is a direct link between alcohol consumption and the increase in killing of those related to you during this holiday season.
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/23/2007 @ 12:42pm
Pontificus, Maasch, and these other right-wingers, THEY ALL SUPPORT BUSH - STILL! Even Mike Huckabee can't stand George Bush. Mike Huckabee says the troops are carrying out an arrogant and inept policy. Whoa! Go on Mike Huckabee - now don't be restrained - really really tell it like it is! Arrogant and inept? Mike Huckabee agrees with Conshame, Mike Huckabee read my posts and said, "Conshame is a GREAT American - I agree with him 100% that Bush is Authoritarian, Stupid, Inept - last but not least arrogant."
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 12:46pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 12/23/2007 @ 12:42pm
If true, how lovely.
If the Followers actually did what they preach, maybe China would not do so well at X-mas. Just think of the impact if our "Christian Nation" set aside their religion of consumerism and simply had a solemn day of prayer. It would be dramatic, and deadly to retailers and manufacturers. If they really wanted to bring about a Christian Nation, their precious capitalism would suffer badly.
No worries on that front, though.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 12:55pm
Crabby-Christmas will remain a capitalist holiday and will never be a Christian holiday.Those days are gone.Profit,and not Jesus,is what matters at this time of year.
Posted by i'm nobody at 12/23/2007 @ 12:59pm
You right-wingers really have earned the hatred and scorn of the decent and intelligent people of the world. You're on record, you voted for Bush, you watched FOX News, you defended Bush.
You're on record being wrong about Bush, about Iraq, global warming, even the economy. You Bush-dupes are all still saying the economy is strong, the economy is strong - none of you are worried about the currency anymore. When Clinton was in I used to have right-wingers telling me to buy gold. You right-wingers don't even believe in God anymore, because you know Rudy Giuliani is a better Christian in your book than this upstart pip-squeak Huckabee is.
You're on record, right wingers, supporting that we should extend to the Government, the power to torture individuals. You don't believe in limited Government. Here Bush is suing the State of California, you want to talk about Local Government and States Rights, even Arnold Schwarzenneger is furious at the idiot George Bush.
Right-wingers, you DID support pre-emptive war in Iraq, you DO support extending pre-emptive wars to other countries, and you don't need to LOGICALLY EVALUATE the propaganda, you're no conniseurs for propaganda when it comes to pre-emptive wars you'll eat any crap you're given - swallow it whole. Sure, some Moderate Democrats were in a stupid bi-partisan stupor and supported YOUR CONSERVATIVE fucck-up in Iraq, but you didn't have ANY LIBERALS. And, THE WORLD HATES THESE SILLY MODERATE SO-CALLED DEMOCRAT BI-PARTISAN CHUMPS, who are scared to stand up and fight this Republican Authoritarian SHHIT!!!!
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 1:00pm
Even Christian Huckabee Hates George Bush.
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 1:04pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:04pm |
Trial by combat?
If you look closely, you will see this judicial system you hate so much is a part of the Constitution. Just like the freedom to express dissent from our gubment.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:07pm
CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - Mike Huckabee, who has joked about his lack of foreign policy experience, is criticizing the Bush administration's efforts, denouncing a go-it-alone "arrogant bunker mentality" and questioning decisions on Iraq.
...
"Our failure to tackle al-Qaida in Pakistan seems to be leading inexorably to its attacking us again."
...
( HA HA )
The tax plan Huckabee has proposed, called the "FAIR tax," would eliminate federal income and investment taxes and replace them with a 23 percent federal sales tax. Even the backers of the tax admit it is unlikely to get through Congress, and other leading GOP candidates have been critical of the idea. "I guess if you don't buy anything, you don't pay any sales tax, but if you do buy something, you pay sales tax."
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 1:09pm
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071215/D8THJH880.html
Posted by conshame at 12/23/2007 @ 1:09pm
http: //boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448717 [boards.straightdope.com]
Posted by JORCHEIM 12/23/2007 @ 12:42am
oh my.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:09pm
And remember, their are Yellow Books FULL of lawyers! SO, you have all the competition you could want, and in the economic theory to advocate, that should drive the price down.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:10pm
there are Yellow Books.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:11pm
Who really believes this crap?
Posted by PONTIFICUS 12/23/2007 @ 11:10am
¿parc siht seveileb yllaer ohW
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:12pm
Around here it is is used as a revenue source, as are all police activitys here
Police protection is only a revenue source.
Why do you hate America?
A return to feudal states, trial by combat, serfs pay taxes to the landholders. Am i getting close to your Shangi-La?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:15pm
I just watched my neighbor drive his Jeep 200 yards to go get his newspaper,
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 12:32pm
i want to say something witty, but honestly, i'm speechless.
actually, no. i see that nonsense incessantly.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:18pm
If they really wanted to bring about a Christian Nation, their precious capitalism would suffer badly.
No worries on that front, though.
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 12:55pm
where's the grinch* when we need him?
*the one whose heart grew three sizes.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:23pm
interesting...
doing a little consumer research, and I came across this
Due to a past history of quality problems with the Channel Master 9521A rotator now being made in China instead of Ohio, we must test each rotator before it is shipped.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:25pm
The Great Liberal Conspiracy is slowly reeling Maasch in
He shops for locally grown organic produce.
He eschews consumerist X-mas.
He supports socialist gubments in the East that supply housing and healthcare to some of it's citizens.
Buwhahaha.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:28pm
Check this one out..
http://www.forbes.com/video/?video=fvn/business/sf_ctort102705_al&partne r=email
One must be careful and use your brains....
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:15pm
grr, dial up. streaming video is but a dream.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:29pm
I will never do a large Christmas again.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:20pm
ya know,
me and the misses went down to a local department store and said, "o.k. you find me something nice to wear, and i'll do the same for you".
lots of beautiful clothes.
and REAL cheap.
but ¡¡lo and behold!! EVERY single garment was MADEINCHINA*.
so we bought some nice ales and chestnuts instead.
*i did find a nice sweater for my wife from "Jones New York", made in cambodia. couldn't buy it though**.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:31pm
**and as my wife said,
"it's wrong to exploit someone and then turn around and tell them you're helping them (by exploiting them)."
sure, not every garment shop in china is inhumane.
but how do i know which ones?
TWO years ago, i could buy clothes made in canada. and everything was o.k.
it seems what we've done is hidden our inflation by strapping it on the backs of hungry people in places like cambodia.
let china make the stuff! but let's be honest and PAY THE LABOURERS ACCORDINGLY and DESIST IN LETTING OUR NARCISM BEFOUL THEIR RIVERS AND SKIES.
i'm sure we can afford to pay 12.34% more.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:38pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:33pm
Well, John, look at it this way
you think Cuba and Venezuela are evil, but China just needs a guiding hand. I look at pictures of how china treats dissidents and think that is pretty darn evil.
You advocated invading Iraq, in part to free the people from torture chambers at a cost of probably trillions of dollars.
I am advocating removing the MFN status of China till they introduce labor and environmental standards acceptable to the modern world of the 21st century and stop jailing and torturing those that want freedom. This would be good for America too, as it would increase our employment and tax revenue, assuming these trade policies applied to Vietnam, Bangladesh etc.
You want "free trade" with the largest communist nation on earth, with little to no regulation or conditions.
But I am the loon?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:45pm
interesting...
doing a little consumer research, and I came across this
Due to a past history of quality problems with the Channel Master 9521A rotator now being made in China instead of Ohio, we must test each rotator before it is shipped.
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 1:25pm
you know,
people use $9.56 worth of gas* to drive to SPRAWL-MART in order save $4.31 on something*** their neighbour** used to make.
*gas that costs double because the chinese are buying it all.
**the one who just lost his house to the bank****.
***that costs 1/3 less 'cause it's madeinchina. however, it breaks 3 times faster.
****the same bank that is hanging by a fedreserve***** thread.
*****speaking of ponzi.....................
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:47pm
I have no talents-johnmaasch
Those of us with talents like to be paid accordingly.
What happened to Johhannes, anyway. I really miss him.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:48pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:43pm
that's right.
our madeinchina will be my son's madeinnigeria.
and HIS son will be making textiles for the chinese,
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:49pm
Frosty,
Many clothes are made here and in Canada...you must go to finer clothing shops and not department stroes..department stores and Walmarts are VOLUME stores for the greatest number of consumers in cheaper priced models..
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:49pm
for brevity, i said "department" store. it's actually a clothing retailer that carries "some of the finest brands" at discount (i think a lot are seconds, discontinued, whatever.......) prices.
last year, i bought clothes made in canada for these china prices.
something is seriously messed up.
i haven't set foot in SPRAWL-MART for quite some time. i've always considered quality a much better choice than quantity.
that's why i play american and japanese guitars.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:56pm
FZ, don't believe that you have to pay more for North AMerican made products. This is false. John once told us that there were no American made ladders under $900. I found one for $200, same price as a Chinese piece of crap.
http://www.devalifewear.com/mm5/
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 1:58pm
I am going to NY in Jan and am going to bring him steaks and take him out for ales again..I have his address and phone. I email him jokes every once in a while..but unfortunately I have been too busy to be a friend,,so I must change that. Now.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:51pm
please send JR my regards.
don't forget.
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 1:58pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 12/23/2007 @ 1:56pm
got any good bass guitar suggestions? I am playing a '79 Richenbacher now, but the neck is too large for my tiny little hands. I looovve the sound from the Ricky, but it is a little hard for me to play it well. (I am a newbie player, atonal and with little rhythm, but having fun learning!!!) I have been looking at some used Geddy Lee Fender Basses, but they are imported. Any recommendations for N. American products?
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:03pm
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 1:58pm
i concur. it's just becoming harder and harder to find the stuff.
i think we should be paying more for our madeinchina.
share the wealth.
i try to by the locallest as possible for environmental reasons.
does anybody know where i can get compact fluorescents made in n. america (or europe -- i'm terrified of what the mercury controls must be like in china)?
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 2:03pm
please send JR my regards.
don't forget.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 12/23/2007 @ 1:58pm
goes double for me. Him Good Man.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:04pm
hats why I drive German cars.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:59pm
Germany has ....
Unions !!!!!
and is a socialist/market economy. They supply health care, 5 weeks vacation and unemployment benefits that make us look like.... China.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:07pm
Thats why I drive German cars.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 1:59pm
i live in autoland, and people will scream at me for driving a honda.
it's made in ontario, for chrissake. sure the honchos are in japan, but what corporation gives a hoot for anything besides $$$$$?
the same BUY DOMESTIC lunatics shop at SPRAWL-MART.
here's a bit of domestic loyalty:
Coming to America: Chinese-made cars
First Chrysler-Chery export will be sold under the Dodge brand
Doug Kanter / AP
updated 12:02 p.m. ET July 4, 2007
BEIJING - The next Made-in-China export bound for the United States: cars.
Chrysler Group signed a deal Wednesday with China's biggest automaker, Chery, to launch a low-cost production venture that could export the first Chinese-made cars to the United States.
"As part of the Chrysler Group's global transformation, we are finding new ways to bring vehicles to market faster, more efficiently and with less cost," said Chrysler Group President and CEO Tom LaSorda.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19600285/
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 2:09pm
People change opinions all the time.. JM
See, I thought that was the sign of not being resolute and could be explained in 30 second ads as
'Flip, Flop"
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:10pm
please send JR my regards.
don't forget.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 12/23/2007 @ 1:58pm
goes double for me. Him Good Man.
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 2:04pm
Toss me in. He called me out for using a "Dresden firestorm" analogy that was, I had to admit, in probable poor taste. Send 'em my regards, Monsta' Maasch.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 12/23/2007 @ 2:14pm
From GDWTCH5:
"I have to wonder if the German people watched in stunned disbelief while the nazis took over their country and began their reign. Did they feel as ineffectual and frustrated as we?? Was it slow and carefully crafted, that take over? Did some say,"Oh, don't complain, it would be unpatriotic."?"
The shadow government tagged along for decades, allowing itself to even become quasi-legitimate. It created the P.N.A.C. manifesto-a slick, heavily-endorsed plan for lethal preemption that, because it was set forth publicly in a fully institutionalized, legitimate looking document, it's totalitarian acts would be disguised by both pomp and disbelief fake glitteratti. Our lying eyes couldn't get the signal past the corpus callosum. The ruse worked long enough. The first American soldier's boot touched Iraq's soil and the mission was accomplished. Leo Strauss' ghost smiled. We've seen the kind before, and now all the usual suspects show up in our face today:
http://www.light-to-dark.com/t_equals.html
My best wishes to all.
Posted by lthuedk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:14pm
I had a Nissan truck, 80% American made components,assembled in TN vs the same year Ranger, 38% American made components. That truck lasted 230,000 HARD miles, with about $2000 worth of non-routine repairs.
Now i have a Ranger, because I could not find a used Nissan for under 16 grand. This truck is a POS. It has 126,000 miles and I have already put in over $1500 in repairs.
Should have sucked it up and bought the American made Nissan.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:14pm
Because...
There are many guys who can assemble anything...
There are fewer who can design the product visioner saw....
There are even fewer who can have a vision...
And fewer who can put all four together...
And fewer who can sell the vision to someone else who maybe can not see...
And even fewer who can finance using anothers vision...
And even fewer who can pull it all off to work like it was always there in the first place... looking like it was easy to do....
I have no talents
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:16pm
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 2:16pm
woops, those were the words of Maasch.
Remember, again, those of us with creative talents like to be paid accordingly.
It is one thing to assemble things, it is another to assemble them well.
Same with design
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:19pm
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 2:03pm
the geddy lee basses are made in japan.
the japanese have long artisanal traditions, and that has carried over well to luthiery.
however, if you have tiny hands, a fender bass is not the best choice. the necks are kind of baseballbattish*.
you could go for a short scale bass, like a fender bronco. [en.wikipedia.org]
the most pertinent question is ¿how much would you like to spend?
*recently played a geddy lee bass. THAT ONE had a slim, slick neck.
and my strat is a japanese fender. IT'S GREAT!
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 2:19pm
gotta go
time to design, manufacture, assemble and install.
How many can do the whole package?
How many want me to do it for the same price as the Communists? Too many.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:21pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 12/23/2007 @ 2:19pm
thanks.
and thanks for the new word, luthiery.
Posted by crabwalk at 12/23/2007 @ 2:23pm
Posted by CRABWALK 12/23/2007 @ 2:23pm
merry christmas.
and peace on EVERYBODY'S earth.......................
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 2:32pm
and we are going to be paid very heavily for it...in the end.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 2:29pm
let's hope you get money instead.
;+]
Posted by frosty zoom at 12/23/2007 @ 2:33pm
and we are going to be paid very heavily for it...in the end.
Posted by JOMAMMA 12/23/2007 @ 2:29pm
let's hope you get money instead.