Is Jena America?

"Jena is America," says Alan Bean, speaking of the Louisiana town where six black students are looking at decades in jail for a schoolyard brawl while white kids are facing nothing for hanging up nooses. Jena is America in the sense that the unequal justice there is not unique. There are "Jena Sixes" behind bars in every state. But it isn't America in the sense that the country as a whole has had no trouble at all ignoring Jena.

Bean is a Baptist minister from Texas who formed Friends of Justice in response to the now infamous Tulia drug sting of 1999 in which over half of Tulia's black males were convicted on the uncorroborated word of a corrupt and racist undercover cop. He was instrumental in getting that story out. In January he got busy in Jena. By that time, a young white man had already been beaten up and six young black students had been indicted, originally on attempted murder charges. One of the six, Mychal Bell, was legally still a juvenile when he was convicted of attempted second-degree murder with a deadly shoe. While five were released on bail, Bell remains in jail.

"If the media wasn't watching what was going on then every last one of those kids would be in jail," one of the Jena mothers, Tina Jones, told the Nation's Gary Younge.

Jones is generous. The truth is, "the media" haven't been watching. Black radio has been listening, and the black blogosphere's been buzzing, but the white "mainstream" and the white liberal media woke up to this story about a minute ago.

August 2006: that's when the story began, when a black high school student requested permission to sit under a whites-only schoolyard tree. The next day, three nooses showed up hanging there. The following week, black students staged a protest and Jena district attorney Reed Walters, warned them at a school assembly: "I can make your lives disappear with a stroke of my pen." That was after that same DA and school officials dismissed the noose incident as a "prank." The December schoolyard fight took place after months of incidents in which the whites involved were charged with misdemeanors or not at all while the blacks drew various felony charges.

Bean says he started feeding stories to the Chicago Tribune, the BBC and the blogosphere back in April. "Some stories ran in May, but they didn't catch. No magazines picked up. No nightly news. The New York Times studiously ignored it," he says. With the notable exception of Jordan Flaherty at Left Turn Magazine, lawyer Bill Quigley and a few others the so-called "progressive" white press was just as AWOL as the "mainstream." No turning point came until protests swelled in July. Democracy Now and the Final Call ran special reports after Bell was convicted (a conviction that has since been overturned although he remains in jail.) The Nation first mentioned Jena in its pages in the October 8 issue, which hit the stands after a 20,000 strong national protest march. (A couple of mentions appeared online in September.)

By every account I've heard, the people who had sufficient fire in their belly to wake up before dawn and bus their way into Jena September 20 were African American -- around 90 percent. Probably close to that same percentage had a story to tell about a family member or neighbor who's been touched by the criminal injustice system. "White liberals care, but they just don't feel it in anything like the same way," says Bean. "There's a massive experience gap."

James Rucker of the action-alert network, Color of Change, sent out an email alert July 17 after hearing about the story from Bean and his online subscribers. On the media front, he thinks there's good news and bad: "We've seen the power of black radio and the black netroots who really came into their own on this story, but it hasn't captured the imagination of the left media in the way that I would have hoped." (Subscribe to ColorofChange.org.)

We are, after all, talking about Louisiana. On August, 31, when the two hangman's nooses were found hanging in the tree, journalists were all over the Gulf Coast marking the one-year anniversary of Katrina. In the following weeks, when residents started holding lonely rallies, regional papers in Alexandria, Shreveport and Baton Rouge carried word, as did Jena's own Jena Times.

Is it too much to expect that following the burst of attention to institutional racism that accompanied the broken levee disaster and Katrina, white America's sensors might have been unusually attuned to the sort of injustice revealed at Jena? Or even, to expect that journalists might have been on the look out?

The thing is, media, and the movement pressure it could have built, could have made a difference. If Jena High School and the Jena DA had felt pushed to take on the noose-hangers a year ago, one white student, Justin Barker, might never have been beaten by anyone and six young black men (and one boy) might be heading to college today, not to courtrooms. The whole Jena story could have been different if one District Attorney, not to mention the US Justice Department had felt the push to do what would have been right -- and kick Jim Crow out of the 21st Century.

It's late but it's not too late, for all of America to act. In fact, truly massive public attention is needed right now as a white backlash builds in Louisiana. While Air America and National Public Radio move on, David Duke and his radio listeners are all over the Jena story. Last week, the former Ku Klux Klan leader announced his support for Jena's white residents (who voted overwhelmingly for him when he ran for Louisiana governor in 1991.) Since the civil rights demonstrators left, Jena familes are alone against the white supremacists who have started appearing. Over the weekend, a neo-Nazi Web site posted the names, addresses and phone numbers of some of the six black teenagers and their families and urged followers to find them and "drag them out of the house." A white driver was arrested in a nearby town, driving a pick up with nooses tied to the back fender. White extremist web sites and blogs are exploding and it's not just Klansmen and neo-Nazis posting hateful things.

It's late but it's not too late to answer: Is Jena America?

ACTION SUGGESTIONS:

Join Amnesty International's call for a Justice Department investigation.

Sign Color of Change's petition drive.

LAURA FLANDERS is the host of RadioNation and the author of Blue Grit: True Democrats Take Back Politics from the Politicians.

Comments (81)

1. Sorry, Ms Flanders, have to go with ZERIDIOT on this....what's left to "be done"?

   Jesse Jackson and Al Shartpon have packed up and gone home, as have the less self-aggrandizing leadership. If there was something substantial or insubstantial left to do, why should we focus on it...if they aren't?

   Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 1:17pm

2. Thanks to Peter, Gary, Laura and others for bringing this story to wider attention.

   Posted by RLawrence at 09/25/2007 @ 1:37pm

3. prosecute appropriatly

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/25/2007 @ 1:37pm

4. Laura, please respond to the editorial in the 9/24/07 Houston Chronicle which indicates the story I've read in The Nation isn't quite the starkly black and white incident claimed. I have not found the Chronicle to be some right-wing racist rag. So whom are we to believe?

   Posted by kenburnside at 09/25/2007 @ 1:43pm

5. i'm not saying race has nothing to do with this, but there IS an epidemic og nifonging in the country...

   incompetant prosecutors grandstanding for the public and wreaking hell on the lives of defendants by either over charging or outright criminal actions themselves in their zeal to imprison one out of ten of our citizenry...

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/25/2007 @ 1:45pm

6. Hey Frank before you just go fingering the Republicans try to remember that Kathleen Blanco isn't doing jack doodely squat about Jena and she is the Democrat Governor of LA.

   Posted by ZERO 09/25/2007 @ 1:41pm

   Frank doesn't roll that way. The last thing that Frank needs is to have his campaign funding cut by Frau Queen.

   Carry on...

   Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 1:45pm

7. prosecute for the crime commited

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/25/2007 @ 1:47pm

8. i'm not saying race has nothing to do with this, but there IS an epidemic og nifonging in the country...

   Scrap all the "Hate-crimes" designation nonsense, tone down the class/race warfare, and disbar the unethical scum-bags and race baiters...of all colors.

   ...and I pray that I'm alive on the day when Cosby decides to tell the two Reverends: "MAN...Go get a job!!"

   Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 1:51pm

9. Republicans have been doing the best they can to keep minorities down but it will be their party that will become extinct as the minorities come of voting age.----Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 1:26pm

   FRANK, are you predicting permanent "one party rule" by the mid-21st Century in the USA?

   Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 1:52pm

10. Republicans have been doing the best they can to keep minorities down but it will be their party that will become extinct as the minorities come of voting age. For now, injustices need to be fully aired out and sensible people need to make the forces of injustice see the light. How many black Senators and Congressmen are there?

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 1:26pm

    What's more is that darker skinned people are increasing in this country (and the world). Republicans can only disenfranchise them for so long. The race-class correlation will electorally play into the hands of the left and more progressive policy is a virtual inevitablity of the future.

    The Jena situation is the symbolic white on black, Southern, violent racism. What continues even more unnoticed is the systemic, institutional racism of economic policy. Affirmative action is one remedy that aims to level the playing field by giving minorities more opportunities to transcend poverty. 'The Pursuit of Happyness' is a great example of how hard it is to "make it" as a poor black person in this world today (not that I'd know 1st hand).

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 1:57pm

11. Affirmative action is one remedy that aims to level the playing field by giving minorities more opportunities to transcend poverty. ---Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 1:57pm

    It's also blatently un-fair and gave rise to more racial disconnect (along with forced busing), than it did in helping to transcend poverty. It needed to AT THE LEAST be fixed "Mended not ended" if you will...but it was not a solution in itself.

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 2:04pm

12. So the increasing number of dark-skinned people in the country means that in the near future, they will have the political clout to make racism a thing of the past. On the surface, that seems like a logical assumption.

    But I worry that the way things are going it's more likely that racism will be eclipsed or compounded by classism. Every day, more and more formerly middle-class Americans find themselves sliding toward the poorer end of the spectrum, where justice is a rare abstract regardless of skin color.

    I'm not black, and certainly wouldn't try to minimize the liability of being dark-skinned in some of our more red(neck) states. But in the larger picture, being a middle-class white guy ain't what it used to be, either.

    Posted by drhammer at 09/25/2007 @ 2:30pm

13. There is something very wrong with the way the conversation is framed. It's all one way, ignores the reality. Racism is not something peculiar to white America. And framing the issue in such terms alienates much of white America. I can't help but think that it is intentional, an effort to divide.

    Both parties need to drop the black-white bs and concentrate on the injustice of the system. As Nifong demonstrated with the wealthy white Duke students, there is something very wrong with the justice system in this country. (Had those Duke students not been wealthy, able to afford extremely capable legal talent, they probably would have sol, convicted.) Anybody that's been through the wringer--white, black, hispanic, etc.--understands all too well that there is very little justice involved with the process.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 2:35pm

14. (not that I'd know 1st hand).

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 1:57pm

    That's the most intelligent thing you've ever posted. It's the rest of it that was pure crap.

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 2:43pm

15. What if the nooses hung in the tree were done purely as a prank (sickly for sure)? How ironic it would be if it was a prank and not even by racist white kids but by other black kids? Before people start darting, just pointing out a possibility....as I've yet to read anything that established who hung the nooses....

    Hanging a noose.....is that by itself a crime? Like Larry Craig's tapping his foot & waving his hand? Are we at the cusp of the world depicted in "Minority Report"?

    Posted by Happy at 09/25/2007 @ 3:03pm

16. It's the rest of it that was pure crap.

    Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 2:43pm

    Perhaps you could elaborate a little further with your scathing little review. Or is that your mature way of saying you don't agree with what I said?

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:05pm

17. Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 3:05pm

    MATT, SLIVER's an expert on "pure crap". For instance, ask him his opinion of "women dying of illegal abortions before Roe"!

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 3:10pm

18. Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 2:04pm |

    On the surface, or at an individual level, I can understand why affirmative action can be construed as unfair. But in the overall, big picture, statistical sense, I believe it to be a step in the right direction towards an attempt at mending the disparity that obviously exists between blacks and whites in America. Thus far, I haven't seen better examples of how to confront this situation other than telling black America to "fix itself". It's precarious and boils down to whether one wants to a.)acknowledge the race-class correlation, or b.) acknowledge that poverty is a social problem, not a personal one.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:12pm

19. Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 3:10pm

    IF IT'S NOT SCOTTISH, IT'S CRRRRAP!!!

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:13pm

20. Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 3:12pm

    Couple of flaws, MATT...

    "a.)acknowledge the race-class correlation,"

    foremost is that the majority of poor people...are white.

    So affirmative action may help African-Americans (and even MIDDLE CLASS African-Americans)...but it isn't going to allieviate poverty.

    Second "or b.) acknowledge that poverty is a social problem, not a personal one.". Of course poverty is a social problem, where did I say otherwise? But if you want to fix poverty...fix poverty.

    Trying to "make up for" past oppressions by quotas and "targets" will lead to racial division, not unity...and does little for poverty.

    IF IT'S NOT SCOTTISH, IT'S CRRRRAP!!!---Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 3:13pm

    The prototype for "Fat Bastard" AND "Shrek"!

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 3:27pm

21. foremost is that the majority of poor people...are white.

    Yes, but let's look again at those numbers per capita...

    Affirmative action also seves hispanics, the larges growing group in America.

    The sad reality is that the darker one's skin is in America, and just about everywhere in the world, the less income one brings in. Look at income demographically per capita and the dispertity that affirmative action attemps to offset is obvious. Minorities in poverty are generations deep in the cycle. Affirmative action offers a way out in an oceon void of opportunities beyond Wal-Mart wages.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:37pm

22. The prototype for "Fat Bastard" AND "Shrek"!

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 3:27pm

    Don't forget the dad in "So I married An Axe Murderer!"

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:39pm

23. I'm less concerned about dealing with racism (what people think) then with dealing with racial injustice and racial oppression (what people do). Jena, for all that there might be shades of gray, is still an example of racial injustice, not to mention prosecutorial misconduct.

    What should be done? Well, before we were all so damned demoralized and demobilized by (a) the economy, (b) TV, (c) the Internet and (d) the war on dissent, unions, religous groups, peace organizations, students and the left would have organized to go down to Jena. Anyone ever hear of Freedom Summer? Selma? Birmingham? Urged on by the left and their own ranks, unions might form armed, multi-racial defence guards - seen as recently as the 70's and 80's - to stand up to the nightriders of the Klan and the Nazis. There's a whole history of things that we can look at to determine what is to be done that goes beyond calling our congressperson (not utterly useless) and chatting on a website (closer to utterly useless, but what was that I said about being demoralized and demobilized?).

    Posted by cka2nd at 09/25/2007 @ 3:40pm

24. Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 3:37pm

    MATT, if Oprah wanted to take advantage of affirmative action....anything stopping her?

    Okay, if a poor WHITE West Virginia coal mining family wanted to....???

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 3:50pm

25. BTW, has anybody come up with a good answer to my question to Ms Flanders?....

    If Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have left Jena....what does Ms Flanders expect the REST of us to do there...and why?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 3:51pm

26. Posted by CKA2ND 09/25/2007 @ 3:40pm

    I don't know. The internet is widely regarded as a tool that the left has better utilized than the right. Also, behavior is a direct reflection of attitudes, so that relationship can't be easily ignored.

    As far as the uselessness of posting here, personally I feel like I've learned a lot since having started this new habit of mine. Conversations on politics here can pass word-of-mouth to others and possibly influence policy down the road.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:56pm

27. Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 3:50pm

    Excellent anecdotes. Don't forget Will Smith. For that sake we'll subract the high and low scores (overall wealth) from the equation.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 3:57pm

28. If Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have left Jena....what does Ms Flanders expect the REST of us to do there...and why?

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 3:51pm

    At the very least I think we can discuss the problem of racism and do our parts to discourage the attitudes that allowed the Jena situation to occur.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 4:07pm

29. MATT, SLIVER's an expert on "pure crap". For instance, ask him his opinion of "women dying of illegal abortions before Roe"!

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 3:10pm

    That's an easy one that I'll reiterate.

    "Repeating the big lie often enough convinces the public. The number of women dying from illegal abortions was around 200-250 annually. The figure we constantly fed to the media was 10,000. These false figures took root in the consciousness of Americans convincing many that we needed to crack the abortion law."

    -Dr. Bernard Nathanson , founding member of NARAL who testified in favor of Roe v Wade. http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html

    What's wrong with that? My point was in challenging something all the way to the Supreme Court based on DELIBERATE lies and fabrications from the man who did the testifying. - So if more than 200-250 women die each year from childbirth, do we ban or criminalize pregnancy??

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 4:12pm

30. Matt...I didn't mean to be harsh. I just couldn't agree with what you're stance was. In my eyes, AA in and of itself is racism. Of course, we'll never be sure, because we're two white guys wondering what blacks and latinos think...from a white perspective.

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 4:16pm

31. Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 4:16pm

    SLIVER, AA is an awful practice. Can you image yourself being the only "white" person working in an all black company or attending an all black college/university?

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 4:27pm

32. Bad news, FRANK....you can't quote Andrew Sullivan of "The Atlantic" anymore. He refuses to bow down before General Zod...uh, I mean the junior Senator from NY!

    "The conservative Washington Establishment is swooning for Hillary for a reason. The reason is an accommodation with what they see as the next source of power (surprise!); and the desire to see George W. Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq legitimated and extended by a Democratic president (genuine surprise). Hillary is Bush's ticket to posterity. On Iraq, she will be his legacy. They are not that dissimilar after all: both come from royal families, who have divvied up the White House for the past couple of decades. They may oppose one another; but they respect each other as equals in the neo-monarchy that is the current presidency. And so elite conservatives are falling over themselves to embrace a new Queen Hillary, with an empire reaching across Mesopotamia, a recently deposed court just waiting to return to the salons of DC, a consort happy to be co-president for another four years, and a back-channel to the other royal family. She'll even have more powers than Clinton I, because Cheney has given her back various royal prerogatives: arrests without charges, torture, wire-tapping, and spy-ware on your Expedia account. Only the coronation awaits."

    andrewsullivan/atlantic.com

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:28pm

33. No, I've said several times now that I'm in favor of a viable third party that can carry a large enough percentage of votes to make a difference. ----Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 4:28pm

    FRANK, why do I easily assume you DON'T want one ....in 2008, especially from the Left?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:30pm

34. Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 4:16pm

    Like I told Mask, I can understand the side of this argument that views afirmative action as unfair. It's my humble opinion, however that the attempt to remedy the demographic wealth disparity is better for society in the long run.

    The fact that we're white shouldn't have to affect whether we're allowed to discuss, or have opinions about racism. Whites by and large are in the greatest need of an education in race relations.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 4:33pm

35. So if more than 200-250 women die each year from childbirth, do we ban or criminalize pregnancy?? ----Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 4:12pm

    As I said the first time, SLIVER...your compassion is overwhelming!

    Of course, you're someone who thinks soldiers would prefer fighting and dying in Iraq, to handing out meals to poor Africans!

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:34pm

36. Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 4:31pm

    No, FRANK...I meant..."in the future" you can't. Sorry for the confusion.

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:36pm

37. Again, because you don't read. I have nothing agains a VIABLE third party----Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 4:34pm

    FRANK, that's not exactly TRUE, is it?

    If Dennis Kucinich loses, goes "Green", gets a slate of Congressional even gubenatorial Green Party candidates...raises MILLIONS from the Internet and elsewhere, and starts posting 20-25-30% in the polls...

    you DON'T want a "viable third party"...FROM THE LEFT...running in either 2012 or ESPECIALLY 2008 against Her Worshipfulness!

    Do you?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:38pm

38. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 4:27pm

    Heaven forbid you'll be the only white person among a bunch of blacks some day! Living, working, and going to school in Los Angeles, I was usually the only white guy in any given situation. It's not a bad thing, but it's illuminating to experience being a "minority".

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 4:39pm

39. Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 3:57pm

    MATT, again, the preponderance of poor people in this country are white. Why do you keep conflating affirmative action with "alleviatiing poverty" when NOTHING in A.A. would help that majority of poor white people?

    Also are the totality (or even strong majority) of AA "receipiants" ...poor?

    And again, is there any legal sanction to stop someone like Oprah Winfrey or yes Will Smith from asking to benefit from A.A.?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:43pm

40. Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 4:41pm

    So why not support him NOW, FRANK...in the primaries? Why all the "stop talking Obama and Edwards...Hillary is unstoppable...join our band-wagon" stuff?

    Plenty of time to join Hillary AFTER she wins the nomination? Why not support Dennis NOW?

    Or is that you aren't REALLY that interested in a "viable third party"...if it goes after ONE PARTICULAR candidate? Again, you don't even want one in 2012...when She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed would possibly be running for re-election....you want them to start it AFTER she is completely out of office, right?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:46pm

41. "It's my humble opinion, however that the attempt to remedy the demographic wealth disparity is better for society in the long run."

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 4:33pm

    MATT, AA is not the solution nor the answer.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 4:46pm

42. Whites by and large are in the greatest need of an education in race relations.

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 4:33pm

    Agreed, in theory. The problem is in the implementation. When government gets involved to try to fix social problems, things such as forced busing get enacted, which after about a decade breeds MORE segregation. I've seen it happen right here.

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 4:47pm

43. Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 4:16pm

    'bout the axes....

    have to give the list later. on borrowed time at work.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 4:48pm

44. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 4:46pm

    ACOOK, not that it automatically grants you total authority on race and AA (but it does grant quite a bit) but...

    aren't you an African-American woman?

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 4:49pm

45. "I think you're way off base here zero. The black community referred to Bill Clinton as the first Black president. They love the Clintons, so much so that a firm majority of them will vote for Hillary over Obama. If you'd like more insight, again, I refer you to the book 'The Hunting OF The President' by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons."

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 09/25/2007 @ 4:37pm

    No Frank, it was Toni Morrison who spoke on Oprah Whinfrey's show referring to Clinton as "the first black President" and I thought it was the biggest crock of sh*t I ever heard coming from the mouth of women who has a problem with black men. I didn't care Clinton then and I certainly don't care for them now.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 4:50pm

46. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 4:46pm

    how's your son? i promised i'd ask.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 4:51pm

47. "It's not a bad thing, but it's illuminating to experience being a "minority".

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 4:39pm

    Ya know, that idea scares the living hell out of white folks.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 4:53pm

48. Pretty DUMB thing to post to an AA military wife and nurse!

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 09/25/2007 @ 4:44pm

    I guess maybe it was. I didn't know that!

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 4:55pm

49. Ya know, that idea scares the living hell out of white folks.

    Posted by ACOOK

    Are you stereo typing?

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 4:56pm

50. Whites by and large are in the greatest need of an education in race relations.

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 4:33pm

    one of the best lessons in my life:

    i was 7 or 8. driving to tiger stadium with my dad (pbuh)and my buddy. buddy says looking out window, "hey look at all the niggers".

    dad slams on break and says in a way i had never seen before, "if i ever here you say any such nonsense, i'm gonna open that door and leave you right here, right now"

    thanks, dad

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 4:59pm

51. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 4:46pm

    how's your son? i promised i'd ask.

    Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/25/2007 @ 4:51pm

    it was you, wasn't it

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 5:00pm

52. MATT, again, the preponderance of poor people in this country are white. Why do you keep conflating affirmative action with "alleviatiing poverty" when NOTHING in A.A. would help that majority of poor white people?

    Also are the totality (or even strong majority) of AA "receipiants" ...poor?

    And again, is there any legal sanction to stop someone like Oprah Winfrey or yes Will Smith from asking to benefit from A.A.?

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 4:43pm

    If my language was misleading, I apologize. First of all, I'm not fully on board with the whole AA thing, as I've acknowledged that I see both sides of the issue. I don't mean to assume that it will fix poverty, but the demographic wealth disparity. It may help some black people out of the poverty rut that often runs generations deep. If there are better alternatives to helping with this, I'd like to hear more about them.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 5:00pm

53. "If it worked for women, why won't it work for black people?"

    Posted by ZERO 09/25/2007 @ 4:48pm

    Because AA was not truly designed for us.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 5:02pm

54. "Are you stereo typing?"

    Posted by MTSPENCE05 09/25/2007 @ 4:56pm

    No.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 5:04pm

55. "aren't you an African-American woman?"

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 4:49pm

    Yes.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 5:05pm

56. Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/25/2007 @ 5:00pm

    Hey there FZ

    My son is fine. As he told me in one of his letters, "Ma, bc is kickin my a**! His dad wrote back and told him to suck it up...hehe

    Thank you for asking.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 5:08pm

57. Whites by and large are in the greatest need of an education in race relations.

    Posted by MATTMAN

    It's that kind of one way crap that fuels the rio bozos out there.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 5:08pm

58. "ACook: can you explain further? I know that you are black yourself, and your perspective is intersting - "

    Posted by ZERO 09/25/2007 @ 5:08pm

    Sure, I'll tell you. One of my sisters got hired at a law firm in Detroit, however, when she went to work on her first day as a paralegal, she was told her skills were better suited in the secretarial pool as a legal secretary (at lesser pay of course). And, the firm decided to bring in a female law student (who had not graduated yet) at the same pay they offered my sister. Mind you, my sister has her master's and over 15 years experience. My sister didn't argue, she politely put in her resignation.

    Posted by ACook at 09/25/2007 @ 5:23pm

59. It's that kind of one way crap that fuels the rio bozos out there.

    Posted by MTSPENCE05 09/25/2007 @ 5:08pm

    Quite possibly. But it's the rio bozos specifically that badly need that education.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 5:23pm

60. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 5:23pm

    That's messed up.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 5:24pm

61. Posted by MATTMAN

    You're not getting the point.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 5:24pm

62. affirative action is in my opinion a still necesary evil...which should be periodically and rationally re-evaluated...

    i say this on the macro level. on the micro-level it is infuriating to think one ay have to perform at a higher level than soeone else because of the sins of one's ancestors when one is having trouble getting through this harsh old world, though...

    regardless, with one in every 6 kids born today of mixed ethnicity...perhaps not an issue in a generation or three...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/25/2007 @ 5:26pm

63. Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 5:23pm |

    yup... why i think AA is a necesary evil...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/25/2007 @ 5:27pm

64. Hey, FRANKG, your FEARLESS Nominee/POTUS....trailing everybody, as usual! Awe-inspiring, after checking the pulse of the country!

    Umbrage LagTwo weeks on, Hillary condemns the MoveOn ad.

    By John Dickerson

    Posted Monday, Sept. 24, 2007, at 5:38 PM ET

    During Hillary Clinton's marathon of television performances Sunday, she was asked yet again about the MoveOn.org newspaper ad that questioned Gen. David Petraeus' truthfulness. Clinton had already been asked about the ad four times previously, but this time she had a new answer: She denounced it. "I don't condone anything like that, and I have voted against those who would impugn the patriotism and the service of the people who wear the uniform of our country," she told Tim Russert. "I don't believe that that should be said about General Petraeus, and I condemn that."

    Isn't it way too late to start with the condemnation? Clinton has already been extensively praised and attacked for not speaking out about the ad, which ran some two weeks ago. If you're going to be outraged, don't you have to express that soon after the offense occurs or at least in the first few times you're asked about it? If this was really how she felt, she should have joined Joe Biden or Elizabeth Edwards, who criticized MoveOn before everyone moved on. Waiting so long and then claiming outrage just looks phony.

    The political result of the episode seems bad all-around for Clinton. She gets no points from independents or moderates for sticking up for the general when it mattered, and she loses whatever props she might have gotten from anti-war activists for sticking by her friends. (Hillary didn't actually denounce MoveOn by name Sunday, but those already suspicious of her calculations won't be fooled.)

    Posted by Happy at 09/25/2007 @ 5:36pm

65. Posted by HAPPY

    So any schmuck with a star or two on his shoulders is above question?

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 5:41pm

66. Whites by and large are in the greatest need of an education in race relations.

    Posted by MATTMAN

    If that were true, then why is it that the USA and Europe have outlawed slavery, while African countries have not?

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 5:43pm

67. You're not getting the point.

    Posted by MTSPENCE05 09/25/2007 @ 5:24pm

    The point of my original statement is that white people don't experience racism the way minorities do in this country. Most white people therefore could stand to be better educated about race realtions and racism.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 5:44pm

68. Fuck it, everybody could benefit from learning more about the scope of racism.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/25/2007 @ 5:51pm

69. Posted by HAPPY 09/25/2007 @ 5:36pm

    She's a transparent waffling snake-oil politician who's gonna choke this country with those big bowling pin legs of hers. Mask loves that type, but won't admit to it. Instead, he derides those who are voting for her, and those who are voting against her. Watch for it.

    In regards to this thread tying into Happy's posting, she was not guilty of anything, but she wasn't helping matters by not speaking out either. Much like those white parents of the kids in Jena who hung the nooses (if this story is accurate) should have been out whipping their kids asses and teaching them that racism shouldn't be tolerated and will only get better if we all address it on a personal and individual level.

    Posted by Sliver at 09/25/2007 @ 5:52pm

70. Fuck it, everybody could benefit from learning more about the scope of racism.

    Posted by MATTMAN

    That's my point. It's not just white people that are guilty of bias, racism.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 09/25/2007 @ 5:54pm

71. Mask loves that type, but won't admit to it. Instead, he derides those who are voting for her, and those who are voting against her. Watch for it. ---Posted by SLIVER 09/25/2007 @ 5:52pm

    How am I going to deride myself, SLIVER?

    If HRC wins the nomination, I'm voting for her too, just like FRANKGRITS. I just don't trust the woman particularly.

    Just like you probably don't particularly trust Rudy (pro-choice, pro-gay rights, anti-guns Rudy), but you'll vote for him.

    Posted by Mask at 09/25/2007 @ 9:36pm

72. So the increasing number of dark-skinned people in the country means that in the near future, they will have the political clout to make racism a thing of the past. On the surface, that seems like a logical assumption.

    by DOC HAMMER.

    in a few generations we'll (they'll) have hybridized to the point where everybody's brown

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 10:23pm

73. Thank you for asking.

    Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 5:08pm |

    godspeed to him (and thee, of course!) wherever our crazy, swirling times may carry him.

    if he's sent to iraq, make sure he learns some arabic. nothing like speaking the language to lubricate the rough spots.

    peace.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 10:27pm

74. My sister didn't argue, she politely put in her resignation.

    Posted by ACOOK 09/25/2007 @ 5:23pm

    ah, detroit.

    can't tell you how many times i've heard, "you play good for a white boy!"

    i appreciate the compliment, yet, somehow something's just not right.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 10:30pm

75. The point of my original statement is that white people don't experience racism the way minorities do in this country. Most white people therefore could stand to be better educated about race realtions and racism.

    Posted by MATTMAN 09/25/2007 @ 5:44pm

    i've experienced racism first hand, having lived in méxico. it ain't pretty.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/25/2007 @ 10:31pm

76. If HRC wins the nomination, I'm voting for her too, just like FRANKGRITS. I just don't trust the woman particularly.

    Just like you probably don't particularly trust Rudy (pro-choice, pro-gay rights, anti-guns Rudy), but you'll vote for him.

    Posted by MASK 09/25/2007 @ 9:36pm

    OK...so I won't consider voting for Hillary because I don't trust her, and you come back with all the wonderful bright spots of Bill's presidency...yet You will most definitely vote for her, but you don't trust her either?????? Who should be questioning who here?

    I gotta say though, her campaign (and most of all, FRANKIE G's enthusiasm/dedication to her campaign) are going to provide some priceless entertainment in the coming year. He's trumpeting loud and proud now, but the more that she starts to reiterate Bush's words, the more he's gonna have to twist/stretch/bend to explain it all. Probably fall back on the "She's lying to everyone to trick the Independents/Moderate Repubs to vote for her, then the revolution will have been complete" Well...duh! We saw that last time around while John Kerry spent several minutes..Goose hunting.

    Giuliani isn't even on my radar screen. I liked him as Mayor, but that's New York. What passes for someone who leans a little conservative (or as a declared Republican) in NYC is just a little too left for me. Ditto Bloomberg.

    Posted by Sliver at 09/26/2007 @ 01:18am

77. Framing class and political issues in race terms perpetuates racism, as South Africans are discovering. Every time one talks about 'whites' versus 'blacks' these stereotypes are reinforced. Concepts of 'race' as frames for viewing structural inequalities merely serve to distract our attention from the actual material circumstances of the victims' lives, and to perpetuate 'race' as a means of understanding society.

    Rather follow the money. That will lead you to the structural problems in the US's 'democracy'. The fix for these problems will be found in economics and politics, rather than framing them in terms of 'race' (whatever that may be).

    All strength to the Jena victims - not because they are of this or that 'race', but because they are victims of a society that rewards the rich and punishes the poor, and uses a false concept of 'race' to perpetuate this relation.

    Cape Town, South Africa

    Posted by mikecope at 09/26/2007 @ 03:03am

78. are you kidding zero? you think that just because you heard this news on cnn last week that the story hasn't largely been ignored by mass media. these events happened a year ago and the story is just now breaking nationwide.

    Posted by athena1318 at 09/26/2007 @ 09:18am

79. All ye who believe that affirmative action is unfair: Please read the following article by William C. Thomas, "Working for Diversity: Affirmative Action is Only Fair," from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Wednesday, June 5, 1991:

    "After 25 years being a manager in both the private and public sectors, nothing bothers me more than hearing about some opponent of affirmative-action programs insisting that employers be allowed to hire the "most qualified applicant." In plain truth, no employer has always hired the "most qualified applicant" – even when that person was identifiable.

    Consider this scenario: There are five applicants for a professional vacancy. All are white males. A comparison of education, experience and previous salary levels indicates that two of the five have far superior qualifications to the other three.

    During interviews, one impresses the hiring supervisor as brilliant, but also arrogant and ill-mannered. The other is shy, slow to volunteer information and demonstrates little enthusiasm. One of the three remaining (and less qualified) applicants is polite, gives thoughtful answers to questions, shows a sense of humor and confides how badly he wants the job.

    Guess who will be offered the job?

    The fact is, supervisors hire reasonably competent people whom they like and feel comfortable with. It's that simple. No supervisor will hire someone he or she dislikes or doesn't want around every day, no matter how qualified.

    When a "less qualified" white male is hired over a "better qualified" white male, this is called exercising supervisory judgment. When a "less qualified" female or minority is hired over a "better qualified" white male, this is called reverse discrimination and blamed on affirmative action.

    All hiring is subjective. If it weren't, applicants could be chosen simply on the basis of résumés and jobl application forms. Hiring supervisors argue hat they should be allowed to determine who is the "best fit" for a vacancy through interviews and personal judgment.

    My experience has been that many white supervisors are not really bigots but simply choose to place white males in key jobs because they feel more comfortable around them. But from the standpoint of a qualified female or minority, this distinction is meaningless. It really doesn't matter whether you've been denied an opportunity by a bigot or a nice person who is simply not used to cultural diversity.

    Twenty-three years ago, the federal government created affirmative-action programs as an incentive to make employers think twice before simply continuing to hire mostly white males. Unfortunately, it was a negative incentive that threatened punishment for failure to diversity the work force, rather than rewards for trying something new.

    Today, there are white people who say the federal government should play no part in urging diversity in the workplace. They say the government should simply let employers' consciences guide their actions. That head-in-the-sand philosophy is based on the ridiculous assumption that sex and race discrimination in America is a thing of the past.

    There are also females and minorities, all of them successfully employed, who say getting a job under any affirmative-action program is demeaning. That philosophy can only be based on the even more ridiculous assumption that it is better to be unemployed and "untainted" than employed and able to feed your family.

    All this prompts a question: How many affirmative-action opponents who insist that Congress not legislate morality are willing to support the idea that U.S. corporations be permitted to pay taxes on a purely voluntary basis, guided only by their concept of fair play and ethics?"

    Posted by JakobFabian at 09/26/2007 @ 10:05am

80. The Jena case for me has been a real education in the massive disconnect between white and black progressive America. The first mention of Jena I came across was on a literary blog where one of the writers (black) mentioned it as something that was a focal point in the black community. That the various places I go online for my political news -- which includes many progressive blogs -- didn't know about the issue until weeks later says a great deal about how much we are listening to each other and understanding each other's concerns.

    Posted by sdedeo at 09/26/2007 @ 11:09am

81. "Are you stereo typing?"

    Posted by MTSPENCE05 09/25/2007 @ 4:56pm

    i always use two hands.

    :+]

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/26/2007 @ 1:48pm