There is no doubt that there is plenty to be concerned about when it comes to our unhealthy diets. Yes, a number of us eat too much food, especially the worst possible kind. Why make do with one hamburger patty, when you can have two, and please, please don't forget the bacon, mayo, or oodles of melted cheese. All of it over-processed and drowning in saturated fat. Yummy!

But it's equally true that the shock/outrage/concern over the "obesity epidemic" -- especially as it gets played out in the MSM -- is often a flimsy pretext to beat up on people who aren't thin, and vent the fat-phobia of our inner anorexic/bulemic, much of it masquerading as science.

A great example is the absurd claim made recently in New England Journal of Medicine that fat is similar to a contagious virus "spread from person to person like a fashion or a germ," especially among friends. So my chance of becoming obese is 57 percent higher if my pal gains a lot of weight over a certain period of time -- even if she/he lives on the other side of the country, or even the world.

Talk about a good reason to stay away from fatties...

The argument just didn't sound right to me when I first heard it -- and certainly didn't co-relate to any reality I could detect in my varied body-shape/weight circle of friends. So I was delighted to read this blistering take-down in TCS Daily penned by Jonathan Robison, who exposes the research for what it is: junk science that can't tell the difference between cause and corelation. Here's an especially damning bit:

"Perhaps most disturbing is that, in spite of the fact that the vast majority of media images relating to the article were pictures of women, it turns out that the supposed impact of a friend's obesity on a friend's obesity (the strongest association of the BMI's of all those observed) was only significant when both friends were male.

Have the researchers not heard that, aside from not being a good predictor or mortality or morbidity in males or females, use of the BMI is particularly problematic with males because it does not distinguish between muscle and fat and thus mislabels significant numbers of men as being overweight and obese when they are not?"

Robison's concerns echoes an interview I did a couple of years ago with Paul Campos, the author of The Obesity Wars, who rightly argues against the over-emphasis on weight as a marker of health:

"One is that for the vast majority of people, weight simply isn't going to tell you anything relevant about their health in and of itself. And second that among those groups that do show some meaningful correlations with health, we need to unpack the extent to which the weight is causal or merely a marker for other things, such as poor nutrition, socio-economic status, weight cycling brought on by dieting etc."

In any case, whether we're obese or anorexic, the basic underlying condition is an unhealthy, pathological relationship to food, or what Campos describes as "a form of eating-disordered thinking." And both the fast-food and diet industries -- which is once again obsessed with size at the expense of nutrition -- are equally an expression of our sick culture.

Comments (68)

1. Here's the deal, Ms Chaudhry....it's all laying the groundwork for the coming "We NEED to tell you how to eat and how much you are ALLOWED to weigh!"

   One of the delicious tyrannies that will arrive with our inevitable universal health care will be "regretable cost-cutting measures". And that will mean, in addition to a new Prohibition on tobacco, a move to crush "Big Fast Food" to force us to get skinnier so that we aren't overburdening an "already overburdened Federal health care system" with things like heart disease and diabetes.

   Consider it the first volley in the "We need labels on cigarette packs" scenario of the early 60s. Come 2030, 2035...who knows we may have "designated burger eating areas"!

   Posted by Mask at 09/14/2007 @ 2:28pm

2. EEEEEATTTTT MORRRRRRRRRRRRRE BIGMACCCCCCS!!!

   :)

   Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/14/2007 @ 2:41pm

3. I'm thinking that the common sense here is that if you hang out with overweight people, your chances of being overweight increase. Just like if you associate with people who eat unhealthy...of course I'm no expert. The numbers (I don't feel like googling) have suggested that obesity is on the rise, suggestive of an epidemic. Epidemics spread; that's what they do. Behavior is contagious at times. Suggesting that labeling obesity as an epidemic capable of spreading person to person somehow promotes anorexia and/or bulimia is a false dichotomy. I have to believe that people behind these studies have only the best intentions for promoting healthy eating habits in the face of our Fast Food Nation.

   Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 2:48pm

4. This article made me hungry for a double-double with extra cheese, animal style. In-N-Out!!!!

   Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 2:50pm

5. Posted by MASK 09/14/2007 @ 2:28pm

   wow, that would be a very nice thing for your government to do. [how's that, betcha those fingers are ready to pounce]

   not by force, but by reason.

   people dig their graves with their mouths.

   gotta run.

   this threads gonna be FUN!!!!!!!

   FZ

   Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 3:07pm

6. Lakshmi Chaudhry: ....an expression of our sick culture.

   Tell that to my son who took down a Quadburger a couple of weeks ago....I still couldn't figure out how he got his mouth around it!

   "Sick culture" or not, it's growing by leaps and bound....Imperialism, McDonalds' style...`ol McD's stock hit a record high yesterday....lots of international growth expected out of its 6,000+ outlets outside the US!

   Posted by Happy at 09/14/2007 @ 3:11pm

7. We are eating too much, it's true, but that's not such a bad problem to have, as problems go. That's one of the good things about America (at least until Bush II started his imperial campaign abroad): we have the problems one would want to have, assuming that problems are a necessary part of life.

   Posted by BlueSpark at 09/14/2007 @ 3:24pm

8. Glad to see Paul Campos mentioned. "The Obesity Myth" was a pretty good de-bunking. He made the case that a lot of what we think we "know" about overweight and morbidity is false. He was also very good on the "beating up on the poor" aspect of the anti-obesity crusade.

   Posted by RLawrence at 09/14/2007 @ 4:37pm

9. Personally, I think that we as Americans are far too obsessed with food. I mean, we have a whole cable channel devoted to the topic for God's sake!

   My boyfriend occasionally says really crazy stuff like "I had a chicken sandwich yesterday, so I can't eat meat for the rest of the week" or "I'm afraid to eat (fill in the blank)."

   I look at him like he's lost his damned mind. I'm a diabetic and I don't obsess about food that way. I know that I can't OD on pasta like I used to because of the carbs, and I also know that I can't have ice cream and cake at the same time anymore (not that I ever did because I thought it was overkill), but the only concession that I make to my disease in terms of what I eat is portion size. Nothing more and nothing less.

   While I appreciate your fitness regimen Zero, what I think Ms. Chaudury is saying with her post is that you shouldn't be made to feel like you have no right to exist because you like the occasional Oreo cookie. Unfortunately, that's what our Nicole Richie/Paris Hilton/Lindsey Lohan/Britney Spears before the two kids culture would like people, especially women, to think.

   Anything that you do to excess is bad. If you eat McDonald's everyday, as our friend Morgan Spurlock showed us in "Super Size Me", you'll get sick. If you have a steady diet of Oreo cookies, you'll probably end up a diabetic.

   But that's up to you. If you practice moderation in what you eat, only eat what you need to no longer be full, and think about what you're eating only long enough to know that putting a lot of the crap that comes in fast and prepared foods is bad for you, you'll be okay.

   I also believe that if you take the time to do even a little bit of exercise, that scoop of Ben and Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough ice cream that you just downed won't hurt you.

   What we need to do as Americans is stop being so obsessed with food. I'd be willing to bet that most of us don't even freakin' enjoy what we eat anymore because we're so focused on whether or not that so-called fat person next to us is eating too much.

   That the French don't have such hang ups is one thing that they have on us. I wonder if they have a Food Network.

   Posted by edwriter at 09/14/2007 @ 4:39pm

10. Posted by HAPPY 09/14/2007 @ 3:11pm | ignore this person

    hardly something to be proud of.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:18pm

11. Posted by ZERO 09/14/2007 @ 4:57pm

    J was also a junkie, and from the looks of things he didn't moderate too well with his diet. You sound like a total health freak to me ZERO, but that's cool if that's your thing. Personally, I eat,drink, and smoke what I want in moderation and I'm 6'3, 190. No chisled abs or raging biceps but I don't care. I like food. Food is good.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 5:20pm

12. I care passionately about this issue. I hope you do too.

    Posted by ZERO 09/14/2007 @ 3:59pm

    17,453,879%

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:23pm

13. Personally, I think that we as Americans are far too obsessed with food.

    by EDWRITER

    actually american (and canadians) are obsessed with things that used to kind of one day a long time ago sort of resembled food.

    i rarely see people eating "food"

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:29pm

14. Ben and Jerry's Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough

    by EDWRITER

    please send quickly. no luxuries for us this month. unless you want to eat university text books.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:32pm

15. What we need to do as Americans is stop being so obsessed with food. I'd be willing to bet that most of us don't even freakin' enjoy what we eat anymore because we're so focused on whether or not that so-called fat person next to us is eating too much.

    That the French don't have such hang ups is one thing that they have on us. I wonder if they have a Food Network.

    Posted by EDWRITER 09/14/2007 @ 4:39pm

    well i'm enjoying my dinner right now. yum.

    total cost for family of 3--$6 (cdn, thanks bush we're almost at par!!!)

    i googled "cuisine tv france"

    and found this instantly instantly [cuisine.tv]

    bon appétit!

    i think they have few obesity related problems BECAUSE they obsess about FOOD

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:42pm

16. when i was a teenager, i was badly underweight. the price for being an underweight young man is physical assault within your peer group. try THAT on for size, see how your self esteem works.

    by ZERO

    dude, empathy from the frost

    grade school is not a good place for a fat book-worm

    fixed that.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:45pm

17. I love to cook myself

    by ZERO

    that must hurt.

    ;+}

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:48pm

18. This partially explains why you sometimes see obese people who exercise/eat right, but still gain weight. This doesn't excuse people from doing the right things for their health, but sometimes obesity truly isn't the fault of the person.

    Posted by PLAIN BRUCE 09/14/2007 @ 5:13pm

    the important thing isn't to be thin

    we need to be healthy

    think of a football (the oval kind that rarely touches feet) team. disregard the insane things players do to "enhance" their bodies. some people are built to be linemen, others punters.

    eat well, move around, and enjoy the body YOU have.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:53pm

19. Posted by ZERO 09/14/2007 @ 5:42pm

    I apologize for offending you.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 5:54pm

20. Posted by PLAIN BRUCE 09/14/2007 @ 5:41pm

    doctor tells me, "a beer a day is good for you"

    so i drink 15 a day just to be safe.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 5:57pm

21. an additional thought on soy: almost every bit of soy produced in the us is genetically modified. this stuff is very bad for everyone.

    Posted by loveloki at 09/14/2007 @ 6:00pm

22. And I won't be sending out for pizza tonight, either.

    Posted by ZERO 09/14/2007 @ 5:42pm

    send it my way. i miss pizza. good pizza. cooked in a wood-burning stove. with olives and artichokes and feta cheese and pesto sauce and oops........

    i started drooling on the computer.

    ZERO, you are not a freak. you are smart.

    great posts, BTW.

    i bet you burned 450 calories writing them.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 6:01pm

23. o.k.: food

    you are what you eat. literally. i am made of my food (+water). literally.

    i grew up eating mini-ravioli from the can, white bread and you get the picture.

    i was fat. i could barely walk up the stairs at my grade school.

    now, i've learned to eat. like MATTMAN so eloquently stated "food is good".

    our bodies never (well, one day) stop regenerating themselves. i like to be well-constructed so i give my body good "bricks" to work with.

    our brains work with chemicals made from our food. doesn't it stand to reason that our food will affect our thoughts. i eat good food in order to keep my thoughts "clean and quick".

    haven't eaten meat in 8 years. neither has my wife. we feel great (trust me).

    i grew up with diarrhoea, constipation, gas pains, and a weak immune system. all gone now, and i don't get sick (karma, please don't snap back right now).

    my son is 7. his mom never ate meat when she was pregnant. he has never eaten ANY meat. the smell of McDonald's sickens him. he is the tallest, fastest kid in his grade two class[disclaimer: i'm his dad]. he never gets sick.

    since i've left meat, i feel WAY smarter. much happier. way less anger-prone.

    super-highly recommended.

    if you must continue eating flesh, i recommend organic meat. industrial meat is (i'll stop there. the details are far too disgusting--google time).

    one of the biggest problems we have is the quest for better "nutrients". it is good that science investigates food. but when we worry about vitamin this and carb that, we are missing the whole point.

    we eat food to extract the life (and building materials as previously stated) from what we eat.

    consider an apple you pick freshly off the tree. zing!. now consider a supermarket apple that came from chile. it's just o.k..

    now think about that apple toaster strudel you ate yesterday. you felt full, yet sluggish. it has been processed to the point where all the life has been squished out of it.

    learning to eat fresh, home-cooked food (with GOOD pizza or GOOD ice-cream thrown in to keep the soul lubricated) has profoundly changed my life for the better.

    thanks,

    FZ

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 6:28pm

24. well, we got an "epidemic" of behavioral outcome (obesity) and , "wars" on concepts and objects (terror and drugs)...

    maybe we should wage a war against the epidemic of hyperbole and misuse of language sweeping the country for the last couple decades at least.

    this epidemic of hyperbole is, i think, at least partly responsible for the ignorant and confused buying and voting patterns of many of our obese, bulimic, substance abusing, drug fearing, peace loving terror haters these days...

    get that? confused? good. thats the way "they" like it.

    solution...involves a little grain of salt...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/14/2007 @ 6:47pm

25. Posted by ZERO 09/14/2007 @ 6:56pm

    rice'n'beans

    nuts

    soy

    dairy

    eggie-weggies

    peanuts

    tried vegan. was way too hungry. as much organic (especially eggs and dairy) as possible.

    too much protein and you just pee it out.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 7:11pm

26. Posted by PLAIN BRUCE 09/14/2007 @ 7:08pm

    that's why i buy my wife all the peaches she can eat.

    :+)))))))))

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 7:12pm

27. I'm about out of here. Everyone have a nice weekend. It's my birthday and I'm going out to overeat a heavy meal of something delicious.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 7:42pm

28. Posted by MATTMAN 09/14/2007 @ 7:42pm

    congratulations on another orbit completed.

    i wish you many more

    don't forget "dessert"

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 7:45pm

29. don't forget "dessert"

    Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/14/2007 @ 7:45pm

    Thanks, bro. I'm thinking Ben and Jerry's Half-Baked.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 09/14/2007 @ 7:53pm

30. my god, is nothing sacred!?

    Pasta off the menu as Italians protest at rising prices

    Friday, September 14, 2007

    By Peter Popham Millions of Italians took the drastic measure of not eating their customary plate of pasta yesterday, in protest at what consumer organizations claim are savage and unjustified rises in the price of staple foods.

    In the central piazzas of major cities including Rome, the organizations handed out free pasta, bread and milk to draw attention to their cause and urged passers-by to take a day off from shopping. In Italian supermarkets a one-kilo pack of spaghetti costs on average ¿1.14 (96p).

    full details here [tinyurl.com]

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 9:53pm

31. is it really organic? cbc news video [tinyurl.com]

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 10:44pm

32. Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/14/2007 @ 3:07pm |

    Yes, FZ, because it's in the nature of Governments to "reason with its citizens" and not force them to do stuff.

    (I'm using soy sarcasm on that one)

    Posted by Mask at 09/14/2007 @ 10:47pm

33. ¡orale!

    well, it turns out that what we eat can affect how our genes work.

    highly recommended video on "epigenetics" [tinyurl.com]

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2007 @ 11:23pm

34. Posted by MASK 09/14/2007 @ 10:47pm

    well, i've been lucky. discovered the joys of food all by my lonesome.

    our governments are already trying: nutrition guides, scholastic nutrition programs etc.,

    but with the "food" lobby so entrenched, i can't see change coming very quickly.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 12:05am

35. Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/15/2007 @ 12:05am

    uhh, it's Friday night....don't you have a gig? Or are you a studio type and peddle CDs?

    Posted by Happy at 09/15/2007 @ 12:09am

36. Posted by HAPPY 09/15/2007 @ 12:09am

    been slow lately

    up'n'down'n'up'n'down'n'up'n'down'n'up'n'down

    funny thing, feb. 2007 was my best month ever. february is usually drier that dick cheney's tear ducts. crazy bizniz.

    sept 2007, i'm happy (no, that's you)

    i'm PLEASED i've got lots of eager students, ready to learn some frosty tunes.

    my vacation has ended (i.e. from practice which is usually 3-5hrs/day)

    still gives me lots of time to DRIVE YOU CRAZY

    xmas is coming and we'll be quite busy.

    got any office party gigs?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 12:23am

37. Zero, you sad, sad, little thing. Your desperation is showing.

    Posted by ruggles at 09/15/2007 @ 01:27am

38. ZERO:

    I agree with pretty much your entire post.

    I was the other end of the spectrum growing up. I was obese, at least until I started playing football and started taking martial arts instruction around middle school.

    Keep in mind, I grew up on a farm, worked on that farm my whole life, yet still managed to be fat. The reason was simple. I ate a crapload of junk and fast food.

    The reason? Simple. I was told by advertisements that it was healthy, much the same way that cigarettes were marketed back in the 50s as being healthy for you, because you had to inhale the smoke into your lungs. While that seems laughable and pretty stupid now, the large tobacco companies relied on such marketing gimmicks and lies to ensure that their base of customers continued to grow year after year.

    A more up-to-date anecdote, my girlfriend's kid is 4. He's a bright, svelt, strong kid who eats very healthy food, thanks to his mother's insistence on such things. Yet he always asks to go to McDonalds. Why is that? Simple. Advertisements. Otherwise, kids like him would not know that McDonalds is the "fun" place to go with clowns and toys and playgrounds. Even though McDonalds "food" (and I hesitate to call it that) is some of the worst offal to be passed off as edible in our world today, he begs for it all the time... even though he has no clue why. And we wonder why our kids are fat.

    Add to this the fact that healthy food is considerably more expensive than the cheap stuff (compare the cost of making something as simple as macaroni and cheese, both from scratch or from the box), and the rising prices of staples and necessities, from gas to water to food to rent, and there is substantial pressure to buy the cheap stuff. Because even though it's not healthy, it's certainly effective at giving you a full tummy. No one likes to go hungry.

    Back to myself. I started specifically targeting the elimination of junk food from my diet. That included the high-sugar "low fat" foods that we were told were healthy, just because they didn't have fat in them. I started weight training, running, etc. I slimmed down.

    By the time I was a senior in high school, I had earned a full ride to play college football, as a defensive lineman, even though I was only 5'6", 195lbs (of solid muscle, I might add). I decided against taking the athletic scholarship, and instead took an academic scholarship to Duke University, where I played rugby for 4 years. I also power-lifted competitively, as well as danced competitively on a dance team. I was a VERY healthy college student, despite the occasional drunken exploits. Rugby does have its downsides. Or upsides, depending on your perspective, I guess.

    All that changed recently. Over the past 3 years, I have experienced some major health setbacks, primarily due to injuries. Between a broken right ankle, a shattered left ankle, and a hernia in my umbilical area, I gained a considerable amount of weight. I'm not proud of it, but when you are used to being extremely active, staying in fighting trim (literally) and out of nowhere, you are forced to become almost completely sedentary for 3 years, there's not much you can do about gaining weight, even if you try to maintain a healthy diet, which I did for the most part.

    So I finally recovered from my many and various ailments, and started back into a very healthy lifestyle, working out 5 times a week (including weight training) eating 5-6 meals a day for a total of around 2000 calories a day, and sticking with the healthiest, most organically raised food I could find. This went on for about 4-5 months.

    Believe it or not, I didn't lose a pound.

    I couldn't believe it. I was doing everything right. What was worse, I had less energy than I thought possible. Always tired, always exhausted, always worn out. And I was far from over-training.

    So, I went to my doctor, and he told me that what he believed was happening was that due to the accumulation of all the toxins in my diet and in the environment (and the tendency to over-respond to environmental stimuli, like allergens, for example) my body's natural metabolism was severely screwed up. Between the aspartame in all the diet drinks (like Crystal Light, for example) and "diet sweets", and the crap that gets put into our food, like GH and antibiotics in meat or pesticides and herbicides in produce, my body simply couldn't filter out all the junk, and my body was working overtime producing insulin and cortisol, both contributing to the impossibility of shedding body fat. He set me up with a cleansing program that he had used with a handful of other patients, and they had seem considerable results.

    I went on the program, and literally everything changed. I lost almost half of all the weight I gained over that 3 year period in the first 6 weeks. And I felt like a million bucks. All because I was able to clean out my pipes, so to speak.

    Now, I tell you this to make a point.

    The human body can only take so much abuse before it stops functioning properly. Luckily, I caught it before I reached the point of no return, and I am back to a considerably healthier weight (although I still have a little bit left to lose before I will be satisfied). I am training to get back into the ring again, and will do that probably in the next 6-8 months.

    The point of all this is simple. The food we put into our bodies, even food we are told is "healthy" has become so devoid of actual nutritive value that I was literally forced to reset my body's internal metabolism with a pretty extreme program. In doing so, I reset my body's insulin response and was able to cleanse the crap out, so that my joints no longer ache all the time from all the injuries I have sustained, and I have energy I haven't had since I was in college.

    But the food and many of the compounds that we are told are healthy is junk. Worse, it's poison. I decided I wanted to try a experiment, going off of my program for a couple of weeks, just to make sure this wasn't a placebo effect. I stuck to the same healthy food that I had been eating before going off my program, and after 2 weeks, I felt like hammered shit again, and I stopped losing weight, even though I maintained my exercise regimen.

    Perhaps this is just my body, yet I see this time and again in our society. We are surrounded by poisons that are passed off as food, even healthy food. And people wonder why there is so much obesity, so much heart disease, so much diabetes, so much cancer, so much death. We allow factories to produce food which was once grown locally, transported locally, consumed locally. We have allowed massive amounts of chemicals to invade our food supply via pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers. We allow our livestock to be fed remnants of other "mechanically separated" carcasses, thereby increasing exponentially the incidence of BSE (bovine spongiform encephalitis, or Mad Cow Disease). We allow livestock to be raised in enormous factory "farms" where the animals literally stand around in their own waste so that their hooves or claws or feet are eaten away by the acid from their own feces. We allow the dumping of heavy metals and other wastes into our water sources and major fresh- and salt-water seafood sources so that our fish are contaminated with mercury and other toxic crap. How could we not have negative reactions to all this? And all the while, we refuse to make the societal changes, e.g. banning food advertisements to children on tv and at school, banning the use of high fructose corn syrup, banning the practice of using anti-biotics and growth hormones on livestock, banning factory farms, banning pollution in our waterways, banning waste lagoons, etc., that are absolutely necessary to ensure a healthy and safe food supply.

    All this is done for one purpose, and one purpose only... to fatten the profit margins of companies like Archer Daniels Midland, Monsanto, McDonalds, ConAgra, Hormel, Chiquita, Dole, and a host of other merchants of tasty poison. The interest no longer lies in enforcing public safety... it lies in protecting profit margins and cushy private sector jobs for former government officials.

    Do yourself a favor. Go to WalMart, or your local big grocery store chain. Whether it's Food Lion or Winn-Dixie or Piggly Wiggly in North Carolina, HEB in Texas, Giant Eagle or Shop and Save or For For Less in Pennsylvania, or any host of other stores across this country, it doesn't really matter. Walk down the aisles. Pick up the "food" they sell, and read the ingredient lists, if you can. Aside from making you sick to your stomach, you should realize that much of what passes for food, much of what we have marketed to us is pure, unadulterated shit, simply wrapped in colorful, well-packaged cardboard or plastic.

    It's our food supply. We allowed these companies to destroy it. We need to take it back, and we need to get these poisons out of the food supply as soon as is humanly possible.

    Posted by jorcheim at 09/15/2007 @ 02:28am

39. Zero,

    Your defense of the "contagion" article shows you didn't read the contagion article. The authors specified in *particular* that the "effect" had zilch to do with shared behaviors (like eating burgers or exercising together), because geographic distance had absolutely no impact. In other words, according to their whacked results, a "friend" who lived 3000 miles away had exactly the same impact on your weight gain as a "friend" who lived next door, and MORE impact than your spouse - who you figure you're going to be sharing meals with more than anyone else. And they only found a statistical difference for male friends.

    Plus, they found at the start of the study that having a *thin* friend made you more likely to be fat, and vice versa. A strange result also, and it might have something to do with why they ended up with a strange result at the end. (Garbage in/garbage out).

    And Zero, obesity is not the smoking of the 21st century. Constantly conflating obesity with smoking has made a mess of the public health approach here. Obesity is a physical condition, not a behavior. Good nutrition and good exercise are behaviors, and everyone here thinks they're a good thing, and we should all do both. But in the end, even if we're all health conscious and responsible, we're not all going to end up with thin bodies. It doesn't work that way.

    We need to stop focusing on a physical condition which is supposed to be variable in the population, and just focus on behaviors. Because decades of weight-loss propaganda and a $50 billion diet industry, grocery stores saturated with lo-cal and diet foods have NOT made the country thinner, you might have noticed. It's just made us fatter and more befuddled about what's really important. And it's also made a generation of thin people deluded into thinking that if they're thin, it doesn't matter what they do.

    Posted by missnotall at 09/15/2007 @ 03:48am

40. As far as ZERO goes....I seriously think he (not "V") is our original LaRouche'r at TN.

    Posted by Mask at 09/15/2007 @ 07:46am

41. Posted by MASK 09/14/2007 @ 2:28pm

    the best non-Rese Resean post yet, Mask.

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 08:28am

42. Posted by PLAIN BRUCE 09/14/2007 @ 5:41pm

    doctor tells me, "a beer a day is good for you"

    so i drink 15 a day just to be safe.

    Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/14/2007 @ 5:57pm

    Drink 8 glasses of water/day.

    Beer is mostly water....

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 08:31am

43. MASK, so my employer based healthcare wants fat people to lose weight, or assume some of the cost of their care. Is that ok because it is private? Is it bad because it is an attempt to control individual behavior? Is it good because it keeps ALL of our costs down?

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 08:41am

44. A bit old, but:

    March 12, 2002

    OBESITY LINKED TO HIGHER HEALTH CARE COST HIKES THAN SMOKING OR PROBLEM DRINKING

    SANTA MONICA, Calif., March 12 - Obesity contributes to higher cost increases for health care services and medications than do either smoking or problem drinking, a RAND researcher concludes in a report published in the journal Health Affairs being released today. In fact, the report finds that obesity has roughly the same association with chronic health conditions as a person who has gone from age 30 to age 50.

    The study compares the effects of obesity, smoking and problem drinking on health care utilization and health status, using national survey data. Obesity is associated with a 36% increase in inpatient and outpatient expenditures and a 77% increase in medication costs than people falling within a normal weight range, while current smokers see increases of only 21% for services and 28% for medications over those of non-smokers, and problem drinkers see an even lesser effect for both. Meanwhile, aging from 30 to 50 is associated with a 20% hike in service costs, but a 105% increase in medication costs.

    The study reinforces growing concerns about how dramatically increasing obesity in the U.S. will negatively affect health care costs as well as overall public health.

    Don't smoke, don't be fat, don't get old.

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 08:45am

45. Posted by CRABWALK 09/15/2007 @ 08:41am

    This is a good thing...a great thing if you ask me (I know, you didn't). I don't see it as an attempt to control behavior. It's a means to make sure people are responsible for their behavior...or pay the price for it.

    It always pissed me off when I think about all the tax breaks fat people get for trying Weight Watchers, joining a gym, etc. I keep myself in shape, go to the gym, eat pretty healthy to avoid needing "diet programs" but I don't get the same tax breaks? Doesn't seem right to me. After all, all fat people really need to do is slide on a pair of running shoes and WALK!!! Put down the Supersized Combo #3 (and Diet Coke...gimmeabreak) and eat an apple for crying out loud! It's not that difficult.

    Posted by usc1 at 09/15/2007 @ 09:00am

46. A 2006/7 study done by Duke Univ also determined that obesity leads to higher workers compensation claims.

    so, another neo-conumdrum for the neo-cons. Individual rights vs profits.

    Being fit does not guarantee longer life, but being obese can lead to shorter life spans and increased costs for all. So let Happy eat all the crap he wants so he can increase his profits, but he should pay out his own pocket for the results, with those profits.

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 09:02am

47. Posted by USC1 09/15/2007 @ 09:00am

    what tax breaks for going to WW? Never heard of that.

    should the guvt be able to do what private employers do? If a corp is allowed to pollute the air, why shouldn't an individual be allowed to do the same to their body? Or should both be frowned upon?

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 09:05am

48. unclear... sorry

    should the guvt be able to set weight standards for those on public benefits the way private insurers do?

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 09:06am

49. I don't see it as an attempt to control behavior. It's a means to make sure people are responsible for their behavior...or pay the price for it.

    Mighty fine line you draw here. Pricing people out of a behavior is control, no?

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 09:07am

50. Or, do we encourage eating and smoking so we decrease our long term liabilities due to the premature deaths of those that want to smoke/drink/eat?

    Some dictatorships are actually doing something similar to this. Pretty sick.

    Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2007 @ 09:10am

51. Posted by JORCHEIM 09/15/2007 @ 02:28am

    couldn't agree more

    want a good "cleanser" try aloe vera gel. great very keeping the ol' tube clean.

    my son is repulsed by mcdonald's et. al.

    that's because mom and dad launched an anti-mcD advertising campaign since the day he was born.

    it's worked very well so far.

    he eats raw spinach, loves broccoli, and even helps cook.

    if only i hadn't let him try nutella..........

    watch the epigenetics video i posted. very informative.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 09:15am

52. Posted by CRABWALK 09/15/2007 @ 08:31am

    was a joke

    i keep myself well hydrated

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 09:17am

53. Or, do we encourage eating and smoking so we decrease our long term liabilities due to the premature deaths of those that want to smoke/drink/eat?

    Some dictatorships are actually doing something similar to this. Pretty sick.

    Posted by CRABWALK 09/15/2007 @ 09:10am

    the biggest drug dealer in canada is the government. taxes on cigs and booze.

    it also--thru taxes--funds health care.

    so i think these guys have set the tax rate based on a cost-benefit scheme that allows them to still make money AND keep chronic sicks in the hospital.

    go to go to work or i'd look for a story i read a few years back about the czech guv doin the same.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 09:22am

54. Posted by CRABWALK 09/15/2007 @ 08:41am

    CRAB, you particularly on universal health care, have said that it must lead to rationing. Remember Granny CRAB and cutting off her life support?

    So why won't they start dictating our eating habits???

    Posted by Mask at 09/15/2007 @ 09:38am

55. ....DRIVE YOU CRAZY

    xmas is coming and we'll be quite busy.

    got any office party gigs?

    Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/15/2007 @ 12:23am

    If driving me crazy is a big reason for your presence here, you might as well hang it up! The ONLY people that has ever come close to doing what you aim to do, are my two sons (22 & 16)...and once in a while (ok, more often than that), my wife AND my mother! The other ones that tried, without realizing they were driving me crazy, were former bosses who I quit on or negotiated an exit deal!

    My wife's corp. employer is an extremely successful S&P 500 company well known (at least here in Houston) for running a tightwad ship! In the 4 yrs she has worked there, not one X'mas party....they pass out turkeys or ham, employees get to, holy shit, choose which one....gobble, gobble! Such companies' `hidden' benefit is of course, true job security....something unions (& Libs) have NO understandings of!

    Posted by Happy at 09/15/2007 @ 12:20pm

56. I got a laugh out of this.....Soy Cartoon for the near-freaks...

    Al Dente Investigates: Why Do Soy Burgers Taste Awful?

    11:30 AM PDT, September 14, 2007, updated at 12:33 PM PDT, September 14, 2007

    Let me first say that I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't think that excludes me from demanding that soy products taste better. According to the Food and Drug Administration, "soy protein included in a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol" may help lower your cholesterol and reduce the risk of coronary heart disease. This strikes me as a very good reason to replace a beef burger with a soy burger every now and then.

    ......But I think the most offensive aspect of soy burgers is the texture or mouth-feel. It is somewhere between soggy cardboard and pencil erasers. Why is this? My theory is that soy burgers just try too hard to be a burger. And we all know what happens when you try too hard to be something you are not. You are instantly exposed as an impostor.

    Let's examine. I find other soy products enjoyable. Tofu is never more delectable than when it is marinated well or fried up in firm cubes. When eating a bowl of miso soup, I look forward to slurping up the tofu cubes at the bottom. On the other hand, more often than not when I taste tofu scramble, I overwhelmingly miss scrambled eggs.

    Somehow, the combination of soy protein and wheat gluten with meat marinade chemically conspire to make a bad-tasting slab of cardboard patty. Throw some veggies, nuts, dairy, and mushrooms into the soy protein mix and you get a palatable conglomerate called the veggie burger. I like veggie burgers. Other than the burger misnomer, they offer a delightful alternative to meat between bread. The veggie burger doesn't try too hard.

    Perhaps this is really because I'm a meat eater and I've been brainwashed into thinking a burger must taste and feel like ground beef, while a scramble must contain some semblance of egginess. Vegetarians of the world, I call upon you to tell me--do you really wake up from dreaming of a nice juicy soy burger? And if so, what is your favorite brand or recipe?

    Posted by Happy at 09/15/2007 @ 12:39pm

57. As a proud, grotesquely obese role model, I revel in the notion that all you skinny health nuts will have to chip in and pay for my health insurance. I revel in it because I despise you: you joke about Big Macs and extra bacon as if a life without them was a life worth living.

    And while I may die a premature death, death will visit me quickly. You, on the other hand, are doomed to years of a frail, osteo-porosed existence, tittering around the compound in your gym shorts, unable to recognize your own children and pissing all over yourselves.

    So as I suck plaintively on this fine bowl of Marlin Flake, pondering your fate, I can take comfort in the thought that, in the final analysis, he who laughs first isn't in a bad spot, either.

    Posted by trippin at 09/15/2007 @ 1:45pm

58. i'm rail thin. i always have been. i have the metabolism of a shrew. i've been accused of anorexia many times.

    i have two very fat lifelong friends, one of whom is morbidly obese. i listened, as the overweight people i knew struggled with a demon i'd never understand. i listened for tips on how i could maintain weight without expending so much time and energy on meal preparation and consumption. i found shortcuts like eating real fattening food right before bed.

    as i grow older, however, i realize i can't take too many shortcuts anymore. i have to consume lots of healthy food.

    judgemental yuppies really irritate me. people who go to the gym really irritate me. that wasted physical labor could help so many people who need it. "habitat for humanity" anyone? there are so many ways to help people who need it with our physical labor. there are plenty of hard workers out there with totally ripped bodies and high heart rates. i know some of them. this is far more attractive to me than some bitter, vain yuppy who looks down on others from his perch of self-righteousness.

    the beauty industry is nobody's friend. it creates fear and then plays on it, just like our current administration.

    zero your repeated use of the word hysterical in describing a feminist writer does not surprise me in the least. so many of your posts are so true and right. it amazes me that someone with your level of intelligence has never turned your critical lens upon yourself. self examination is a good thing man! wake the fuck up.

    retard.

    cover yourself boy. your hatred of women is showing again. so is your low self esteem. who got pushed in one too many lockers in middle school?

    at least you didn't expose your pathetic fear of abandonment this time.

    Posted by loveloki at 09/15/2007 @ 3:20pm

59. jorcheim, i agree with your sentiments on our food supply. i grow my own herbs and vegetables. i get free range chicken from the hutterites. my mother's husband is native american. he gives me buffalo. many of my friends are hunters. so there is a steady elk supply. i guess i'm pretty lucky that way.

    antibiotics, growth hormones, pesticides and genetically modified seeds are all very bad for us, the animals and the plants. the sadistic practices of factory farms are truly frightening on so many levels.

    Posted by loveloki at 09/15/2007 @ 3:39pm

60. Posted by HAPPY 09/15/2007 @ 12:39pm

    don't like soy much, though i have found some brands of soy milk that are pretty good.

    i think it's silly to try to make vegs. resemble meat.

    after all, no one tries to make broccoli taste like filet mignon

    my son has SO much energy that my mom (pbuh) used to say, "you should feed him hotdogs to slow him down!"

    if only my mom had eaten well................

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 5:56pm

61. Posted by TRIPPIN 09/15/2007 @ 1:45pm

    well, i'm 42 and get mistaken for early 30's all the time.

    i grew up eating crap and have completely change my food.

    i feel great. i feel way, way better.

    i truly enjoy my food, and couldn't be happier (although a post-bush world will help)

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 6:00pm

62. FROSTY ZOOM:

    The cleansing program I went on is an organic aloe based program, with organic whey protein from New Zealand. Completely live culture, non-pasteurized, and amazing. It's pricey, but it cut my intake of food by half, yet I am still full, have more energy than ever, and feel awesome. It's like an oil change for the body.

    Posted by jorcheim at 09/15/2007 @ 7:24pm

63. You have to be VERY careful with soy-based protein, as there have been some studies that show that it is highly estrogenic if not properly brewed (fermented). Just be careful is all.

    Posted by jorcheim at 09/15/2007 @ 7:25pm

64. Posted by JORCHEIM 09/15/2007 @ 7:24pm

    grow your own aloe vera. super easy.

    then cut off a leaf. cut off the pointy edges. peel off one of the green parts. scoop out the gel-like centre. either blend or eat as is. makes your digestive tube feel great from entrance to exit.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 9:03pm

65. i have yet to try this but my friend did (mr. holistic) and said it was super-duper.

    still waiting for the right time.

    gall stone cleanse [relfe.com]

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/15/2007 @ 9:07pm

66. Posted by LOVELOKI 09/15/2007 @ 3:20pm

    LOVE, as I've mentioned on other threads, I think ZERO is a Lyndon LaRouche cultist (just hidden it better than "V").

    One of the key things about LaRouche is a loathing of feminists....and ZERO perks up his chauvinist ears at almost ANYTHING that relates to feminism or somehow "makes women victims" on the TN blog.

    Not a definitive, but he also dodges global warming threads...another indicator of the LaRouchers.

    Posted by Mask at 09/15/2007 @ 10:08pm

67. "Dare to be fat.

    Fat is where it's at."

    Root Boy Slim

    Posted by drhammer at 09/17/2007 @ 3:08pm

68. Zero, you were doing OK until you over reached your experience level. I grew up in a poor town, 69 kids in the graduating class. You would've been shocked at the prevalence of eating disorders among us poor folk - many of us were literally trailer trash. Anorexia is not primarily exclusive to adolescent girls in "well to do" families. I struggled with it for a few years before even knowing what the word was. Personal experience indicates it's more likely in the same genre as Obsessive/Compulsive disorders or control problems. My family is most definitely not well to do, never has been, and yet you can trace eating disorders back through at least 5 generations of women.

    Along those lines I read that most people have at least one addiction. If you manage that addiction it is generally replaced by another - i.e over exercise, too much sex, gambling and so on. I noted this phenomenon personally. I starved myself to get into boot camp for almost 2 years. As soon as I got in I started smoking. When I stopped smoking I started working out like crazy to the point where I could hardly function physically. When I stopped working out I threw myself into work. Do you see the pattern?

    The human body and mind are still vastly unknown territory. Yes, the developed world has a weight problem and yes Ms Chaudhry is simplifying things - but you are focusing on just one part of the article and losing sight of a bigger picture.

    Posted by shellbgood at 09/17/2007 @ 9:33pm