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RedditIn advance of General David Petraeus' testimony to the House of Representatives today, MoveOn.org is running a hard-hitting ad in the New York Times questioning his credibility.
"General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" the ad asks. "Cooking the Books for the White House."
The ad cites an op-ed Petraeus wrote in September 2004--six weeks before the presidential election--in which he boasted of "tangible progress" in Iraq and that "Iraqi leaders are stepping forward." It also notes that in claiming a reduction of violence, the Pentagon, under Petraeus' directive, is ignoring car bombs, routine types of assassinations (shots to the back of the head count, front do not) and ethnic cleansing in Baghdad. The ad references an Associated Press report that Iraqi civilian deaths and American troop casualties are higher in the last three months than any other summer.
Moreover, according to the Washington Post, Petraeus resisted the original findings of the recent National Intelligence Estimate and "succeeded in having the security judgments softened to reflect improvements in recent months." The Department of Defense also altered a General Accountability Office report that originally found that Iraqis had met only three of the 18 benchmarks required of them. After US officials in Iraq protested, the GAO changed the status of two benchmarks from "did not meet" to "partially met."
Yet Republicans are directing their fury at the rightful target--MoveOn. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell this morning condemned the ad as "childish tactics that are insulting to everyone fighting for freedom in Iraq." Just last May, McConnell predicted that "the handwriting is on the wall that we are going in a different direction in the fall." And he called the lack of progress by the Iraqi government, "a great disappointment to members of the Senate on both sides."
So McConnell, like the rest of the "wait until September" crowd, has been converted.
If only you could say the same about the rest of the military's top brass, who increasingly diverge with Petraeus. The Joint Chief of Staff want troop levels cut in half by the end of next year. Admiral William Fallon this summer recommended "slashing US combat forces in Iraq by three-quarters by 2010," according to the Post.
The American public, a clear majority of whom want to decrease the number of troops in Iraq and set a timetable of next spring for withdrawal, are even more skeptical of Petraeus. According to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll, only 39 percent of the public believes Petraeus will "honestly reflect the situation in Iraq" in his testimony today.
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Keep up the `good' work of attacking our military! Really!
Heck of a good job, Ari....you too, NICHOLS!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 11:07am
Keep up the `good' work of attacking our military! Really! ----Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:07am
I didn't realize that supporting Admiral Fallon was "attacking our military"!?!?!?
"The Joint Chief of Staff want troop levels cut in half by the end of next year. Admiral William Fallon this summer recommended "slashing US combat forces in Iraq by three-quarters by 2010," according to the Post."
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 11:19am
Liberals and moveon.org question Petraeus' credibility. Gee whiz we didn't see this coming.
Posted by abell12ct at 09/10/2007 @ 11:26am
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:07am
Berman and Nichols are not the ones who have kept replacing military leaders "on the ground" until they found one who would do their bidding. Bush et al set Petraeus up for this kind of scrutiny, and he willingly signed on, sacrificing his honorable military credentials to carry water for the administration.
Accusing them of "attacking our military" is a completely disingenuous tactic.
Posted by drhammer at 09/10/2007 @ 11:28am
Keep up the `good' work of attacking our military! Really!
Heck of a good job, Ari....you too, NICHOLS!
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:07am | ignore this person
Baaahh, baaah.
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/10/2007 @ 11:33am
I read this week end that the American people believe General Petreus over the WH and Congress..so, I would safely assumer that what authors here write on the left out section of the dem party has no credibility outside this blog...
it also doesn't help when the Dem leaders dispute and put down the report BEFORE it is given..makes them sound..silly.
Posted by john maasch at 09/10/2007 @ 11:51am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
What about the well respected Repub Senator Warner? Did he sound silly?
Some people lack the intellect to recognize bs when it's served up to them.
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/10/2007 @ 11:54am
MoveOn.org: "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" the ad asks. "Cooking the Books for the White House."
BERMAN: Questioning Petraeus' Credibility
NICHOLS: Will Petraeus Betray the Truth--and the Troops?
Is there anyone out there does NOT think the above constitute "attacking"?
Is the fact all of us had made some wrong calls of one kind or another, mean that forever our future judgments are ALWAYS subject to doubt? For what I do day in and day out, I have made numerous wrong calls on stocks....does that mean that I should get out of this business DESPITE having made far more RIGHT calls?
Are all you Lefties so amazingly and UNIFORMLY PERFECT? Do you know how Elitist you snobs are?
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 11:58am
Posted by HAPPY
When you intentionally mislead, lie, you loose credibility. That's the way it works. And I'd much rather sound like a snob than a blind sheep.
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/10/2007 @ 12:00pm
Posted by DRHAMMER 09/10/2007 @ 11:28am
I don't know what kind of a Dr. you are, if you're a medical one, I guess you must be PERFECT, never make a wrong call and of couuse, you don't even need to carry medical liability insurance!
If on the other hand, you're an academic Dr., you are exactly what you sound like, Ivory Tower snobs!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 12:01pm
Posted by HAPPY
Baaaahh, baah, baaaaahhh.
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/10/2007 @ 12:04pm
Are all you Lefties so amazingly and UNIFORMLY PERFECT? Do you know how Elitist you snobs are?
If on the other hand, you're an academic Dr., you are exactly what you sound like, Ivory Tower snobs!
Posted by HAPPY
The usual anti-intellectualism of the rabid, ignorant right.
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/10/2007 @ 12:06pm
Curious HAPPY, if someone was recommending an immediate pull-out of Iraq....would you attack that position (perhaps strongly) or say it was something to consider?
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 12:13pm
Some people lack the intellect to recognize bs when it's served up to them.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 09/10/2007 @ 11:54am
Others just like the taste, having grown accustomed to it over a lifetime of swallowing the swill.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 12:32pm
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 12:13pm
How silly of you! Depends on who! IF Bush, Petraeus, Liberman or even Maliki, I say, we can't pull out fast enough!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 12:32pm
Do you know how Elitist you snobs are?
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:58am
Yes, but I don't give a shit how you feel about it.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 12:33pm
Has HAPPY ever posted anything here that wasn't completely stupid?
Happy, disagreeing with a general is not "attacking the military." There is disagreement within the military on the Iraq issue, so, by your logic, expressing any opinion at all on the matter is "attacking the military." Does that sound right to you? Perhaps it does--perhaps your view is that we should just be silent while our leaders do whatever they want? Is that the freedom the military is supposedly fighting for?
Posted by BlueSpark at 09/10/2007 @ 12:35pm
How silly of you! Depends on who! IF Bush, Petraeus, Liberman or even Maliki, I say, we can't pull out fast enough!
So you admit that your views on Iraq on not based on what's happening in Iraq, but on who is saying what? What on earth has led you to the conclusion that Bush's judgment on Iraq is sound?
One more thing: in November of 2006, were you posting here that we should be out by June of 2007? Or were you criticizing people who thought we should be pulling out of Iraq?
Posted by BlueSpark at 09/10/2007 @ 12:42pm
I'll say it again for those including Imnobody, it is cowardice and treasonous in my opinion to back down from this very necessary war on terror. To leave now is a certain invitation to first a regional war and a high probability of WW4.
God help us if the left should have their way on this fight.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:56pm
Then perhaps GW should have kept his eye on the ball, and not gone wandering off the prove himself to Poppy by catching that nasty old Saddam.
In any event, go fuck yourself.
YOU are the coward, you gutless whining bitch of a ConservaCUNT.
Send YOUR children off to die for GW, he'll not have mine.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 1:01pm
LVLIBERTY1-
Treasonous? Please, your passion is hokey. I get it, you strongly believe the war in Iraq is necessary. I think you are foolish beyond words, but treasonous, that's completely ignorant of our Constitution or reality.
Posted by phillymark at 09/10/2007 @ 1:04pm
And as a red-blooded American, I'll question whoever I damn well please.
You sheeple just go back to munching your grass and complaining about taxes.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 1:05pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 12:32pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:53pm
Interesting....two guys here who are...."attacking the military".
The British military, so maybe LVLIB and HAP don't count them???
POSTED: 1:28 a.m. EDT, October 13, 2006
LONDON, England (CNN) -- The chief of the British Army has called for a pullout of British troops from Iraq "sometime soon" and said that post-invasion planning for that war was "poor, probably based more on optimism than sound planning."
Gen. Richard Dannatt told London's Daily Mail newspaper that he had "more optimism" that "we can get it right in Afghanistan."
Dannatt said that Britain's continued presence in Iraq had made the country less secure.
Britain should "get ourselves out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates security problems," he told the newspaper in an interview published Thursday.
"I don't say that the difficulties we are experiencing round the world are caused by our presence in Iraq, but undoubtedly our presence in Iraq exacerbates them."
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 1:06pm
Rio-
You are right. Us leftwingnuts do actually criticize much of the military. At some point, top brass obeying orders doesn't cut it- but I do understand it's in their job description. It's fools like yourself who follow these ridiculous marching orders without requirement that perpetuate this disastrous global tragedy.
Posted by phillymark at 09/10/2007 @ 1:10pm
Now, be fair....only LVLIB called a former US general a "traitor"....so HAPP off the hook for that one---
"Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who led the 1st Infantry Division in Iraq and has publicly and prominently broken with the Bush administration over prosecution of the war.
Batiste, 54, an Army brat who grew up around the world, is the son of two Wisconsin natives. His mother, Mary, hails from Jefferson and his late father, John, an Army colonel, was from Madison. Both graduated from the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Batiste, who left the Army in 2005, is president of Klein Steel Service, headquartered in Rochester, N.Y.
Batiste testified first, giving a pessimistic forecast. He called the surge "too little, too late" and condemned the Iraqi government as incapable of stepping up to meet its responsibilities.
He said U.S. military doctrine requires 20 soldiers for every 1,000 people in the local population, so assuming that 6 million or 7 million people live in Baghdad, more than 120,000 combat troops would be needed there alone. Overall, there are fewer than 80,000 combat forces in country, even with the surge.
"What we are seeing is the myth of Sisyphus being played out over and over again," he said.
He said that in general, U.S. forces were stretched thin and the surge could not be sustained indefinitely. He said military families "are at the point of no return."
"When the surge culminates, and culminate it will, the civil war (in Iraq) will intensify," Batiste said."
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 1:11pm
A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll taken last month found about two-thirds of Americans -- 64 percent -- oppose the Iraq war, and 72 percent say even if Petraeus reports progress, that won't change their opinion.
The poll also found a great deal of skepticism about the report, with 53 percent saying they do not trust Petraeus to give an accurate assessment of the situation in Iraq.
Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki said Monday his country's security forces were not ready to stand alone.
Why do a majority of Americans expect Patreus to lie? Because he was hand-picked by GW, that's why.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 1:16pm
Iraqis Say Surge Is Not Working By Gary Langer ABC News
Monday 10 September 2007
Barely a quarter of Iraqis say their security has improved in the past six months, a negative assessment of the surge in U.S. forces that reflects worsening public attitudes across a range of measures, even as authorities report some progress curtailing violence.
Apart from a few scattered gains, a new national survey by ABC News, the BBC and the Japanese broadcaster NHK finds deepening dissatisfaction with conditions in Iraq, lower ratings for the national government and growing rejection of the U.S. role there.
More Iraqis say security in their local area has gotten worse in the last six months than say it's gotten better, 31 percent to 24 percent, with the rest reporting no change. Far more, six in 10, say security in the country overall has worsened since the surge began, while just one in 10 sees improvement.
More directly assessing the surge itself - a measure that necessarily includes views of the United States, which are highly negative - 65 to 70 percent of Iraqis say it's worsened rather than improved security, political stability and the pace of redevelopment alike.
Looks like the Iraqi's are on to Patreus as well.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 1:19pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 12:01pm
Would being a doctor of gofuckyourself get me kicked out of the tower?
Posted by drhammer at 09/10/2007 @ 1:28pm
RIO-We've only had one CIC this century.Brilliant statement.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/10/2007 @ 1:30pm
What He Means to Say - But the LARRY CRAIG-Style-Conserva-Self-Hating-Phony in His Men's Room "Wide Stance" Chokes Him Up Too Much and So the FOX NEWS Brain Implant Speaks For Him:
God help us if the RIGHT should have their way on this fight... Because if the RIGHT did have its way, they would would be cutting anti-terror funding into the summer of 2001 and then minting sick fuck slogans like "Eight Months, Not Eight Years" for political ass-covering gain while the dead bodies were still burning in the twin towers, when not using the same terror attacks as a sickly ax-grinding excuse to issue hideous slurs against red blooded American gay people and feminists on television. And, finally, God help us should the RIGHT play out is sick plans to turn formerly pacified and defeated Iraq, cleaned out by UN inspections, into the "Neo-Con ' Bring-T-On' Graduate School of Testing Out Improvised Explosives on US GIs".
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:56pm
And they wonder why we despise them as mentally ill cretins and scum who are bent on dragging our nation down to their sick and dismal level?
Posted by John_Shaft at 09/10/2007 @ 2:04pm
MoveOn.org: "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" the ad asks. "Cooking the Books for the White House."
BERMAN: Questioning Petraeus' Credibility
NICHOLS: Will Petraeus Betray the Truth--and the Troops?
--------------------------------------------
Posted by BLUESPARK 09/10/2007 @ 12:35pm: .....disagreeing with a general is not "attacking the military."...
BLUE, I would hate to disagree w/you in your personal life....since you obviously use very liberally the words I bolded--coming from MoveOn.org, BERMAN & NICHOLS--when you disagree w/your wife/husband, your parents, your children, your neighbors, your doctors, your co-workers, maybe even your BOSS!
Let me take "BOSS" back, I'd love to be your BOSS & fire you on the spot!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:05pm
I certainly would attack it as near-sighted and failing to see the overall picture. I strongly condemn any attempt to weaken our war on terror as you Mask and the leftists are in agreement on.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:53pm | ignore this person
Your own near-sighted picture of designating the validity of Middle East governments in accordance with their ability to acquiesce to Anglo-American resource exploitation is asinine. It is you and your kind who fail to see the overall picture, so keep up with the so-called necessary barbarism. You and your demagogic leaders will only continue to succeed in creating more violence and hatred.
Posted by Oustbush at 09/10/2007 @ 2:06pm
Has HAPPY ever posted anything here that wasn't completely stupid?
Posted by BLUESPARK 09/10/2007 @ 12:35pm
Looks like I overlooked a bit of your `wisdom'! Interesting, why don't you just "ignore" posters that are "completely stupid"? I DO, liberally!
You just put yourself FIRST IN LINE for my `to-do' list...Got to make room for new folks! heheheh...........!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:09pm
.....doctor of gofuckyourself get me kicked out of the tower?
Posted by DRHAMMER 09/10/2007 @ 1:28pm
Thanks for confirming my guess....another one of those probably tenured profs. who knows not a whiff about making it in the real world! My, how has academia fallen in us Boomer eyes! Bet you are a fan of Ward Churchill!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:13pm
As the horrible anniversary approaches, a memory only leavened by unfathomable brave action by men and women of the public sector first response services, we wonder ...
On which American presidential candidate will rightwing Ayotallah Ann al-Koulter piously demand a terrorist attack? And to which newspaper might she attempt to direct the spirit of rightwing thug/mass murderer Tim McViegh via the Ouiji board?
On what American city will Imam Be'ill al-O'Reilli demand a terror raid in a video from his cave on the al-F'oxz network, perhaps even quoting the pious America-hating Ayatollah al-Koulter as he does so?
Posted by John_Shaft at 09/10/2007 @ 2:13pm
And they wonder why we despise them as mentally ill cretins and scum who are bent on dragging our nation down to their sick and dismal level?
Posted by JOHN_SHAFT 09/10/2007 @ 2:04pm
It's all that home-skoolin' that produces such "people".
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 2:18pm
August 2007 saw an increase in violent deaths among Iraqis, but go ahead and use your twisted salesman and techniques of propaganda to convince the surviving family members that because their loved ones were shot in the face as opposed to the backside, they were casualties of petty street crime, thus not included in the surge data. It is not surprising that the same ideologues who denied for years that global temperature were rising, would manipulate data on murdered Iraqi civilians.
Posted by Oustbush at 09/10/2007 @ 2:20pm
According to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll, only 39 percent of the public believes Petraeus will "honestly reflect the situation in Iraq" in his testimony today.
all right, america!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:23pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 2:13pm
Well, as satisfying as it would be to be a target of one of your anti-intellectual diatribes,
you are wrong.
(That doesn't change my prescription, though...)
Posted by drhammer at 09/10/2007 @ 2:24pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:07am
besides actual fatalities caused by non-coalition of the obligated humans,
¿hasn't this whole iraq fiasco been one of the greatest setbacks to the u.s. military ever?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:25pm
Posted by ABELL12CT 09/10/2007
well, anybody who cares about [insert iraq style issue here] should at least investigate his credibility and the veracity of his stats, regardless of how he interprets politics.
lots of lives are a stake
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:28pm
It's all that home-skoolin' that produces such "people".
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 2:18pm
Right you are, Dr.D.
Whereas the GW Bush class of the zero-talent, sub-mediocre, super-wealthy get whisked along with affirmative-action into Yale as "heritage admits", at the other end of the spectrum we find the inbred home-schoolers.
Home schoolers set their children up for later failure in the real world when they finally leave their parents's deranged basement "school" -- which is sly in way since it reinforces the maniacal brainwashing of their captive children into being instruments of the rightwing America haters because they fail within America's broad meritocracy and are therefore vulnerable to all the usual rightwing grudges about their deep inferiority.
NOW A CORRECTION:
"Neo-Con 'Bring-It-On' Graduate School of Testing Out Improvised Explosives on US GIs".
Dummy, Wolfie, Feith, Cambone (the whole neo-clown crew of rapid war mongers who never fired a pistol in their lives) should deck themselves out in tee-shirts to hail their authorship of the explosive "Bring-It-On" curriculum.
Posted by John_Shaft at 09/10/2007 @ 2:30pm
Do you know how Elitist you snobs are?
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 11:58am
happy, ¿aren't you the one who frequently delights us with his tales of monetary delights?
i personally try to live as humbly as possible.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:31pm
Posted by BLUESPARK 09/10/2007 @ 12:35pm
HAPPENSTANCE does know more about finance and economics than i do (or so it seems)
his politics strike me a cruel
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:33pm
God help us if the left should have their way on this fight.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:56pm
why not? if the right upper-cut hasn't been working, then you'd better try the left hook.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:36pm
Careful, Frosty. Happy is threatening people with his ignore list.
{shudder}
Posted by Hman23 at 09/10/2007 @ 2:36pm
¿hasn't this whole iraq fiasco been one of the greatest setbacks to the u.s. military ever?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/10/2007 @ 2:25pm
You need to gain better understanding of America! The American military does NOT lose wars....the American political establishment and the American people DO! Go back to read why we `lost' the Vietnam War even though S. Vietnam was a standing country when our 1/2 million troops came home!
You can't ask the military to be all things to a nascent democracy.....NeoCon Hubris!? While a true democratic Iraq is unlikely before we vacate (mostly if not entirely), AQ's evil has been exposed widely among Arabs, even repudiated by their own sect (the Sunni Arabs)!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:37pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/10/2007 @ 2:28pm
The problem is, many of the stats that Petreaus will use to justify "his" assertion of success are classified.
And the methodology remains classified as well.
What a load of shit.
To paraphrase Bob Schieffer, real success would be obvious, and would not require dogs, ponies, or hack salesmen wearing medals.
Posted by drhammer at 09/10/2007 @ 2:37pm
HAPPY, when LVLIB says this-
"I'll say it again for those including Imnobody, it is cowardice and treasonous in my opinion to back down from this very necessary war on terror." ----Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/10/2007 @ 12:56pm
and someone like Maj. General Batiste says what he said in my post of Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 1:11pm....
Is LVLIB "attacking the military" by essentially calling General Battiste a coward and a traitor?!??!?!
Just curious, I'm sure you're fair....right?
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 2:39pm
Che!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 09/10/2007 @ 1:03pm
how dare you breath the name of a doctor who gave up his middle class existence to help lepers and fight for the needs of the forgotten in the same breath as a CIA-trained, rich brat from a super-wealthy saudi family who decided one day he had for "god"
ignorance is never bliss. it is a fool's pacifier.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:42pm
LVLIB is a coward of the highest order.
He is a gutless, whining excuse for a "man".
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 2:42pm
{shudder}
Posted by HMAN23 09/10/2007 @ 2:36pm
You don't say much anymore? Afraid to `offend' anybody now?? :))))) Afraid your boss catch on to how much time you spend here? I understand big corp. America's computer systems today are quite mute to privacy concerns.....everything that goes through work computers are logged and productivity being measured in some ways!
My wife works in IT and hardly use personal emails!
Oh, don't just silently {shudder}.....
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:43pm
"I don't say that the difficulties we are experiencing round the world are caused by our presence in Iraq, but undoubtedly our presence in Iraq exacerbates them."
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 1:06pm
thank you, mr mask.
boy, it's hot in here.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:43pm
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 1:11pm
thank you mr. mask
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:45pm
Americans -- 64 percent -- oppose the Iraq war, and 72 percent say even if Petraeus reports progress, that won't change their opinion.
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 1:16pm
thank you mr. and ms. america. thank you.
now, read and go vote.
please
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:47pm
I'm sure you're fair....right?
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 2:39pm
We are all entitled to our opinions....I agree there is a Global War on Terror! Iraq is the hottest part of that war right now, an opinion I share w/LVLIB......I'm, however, a bit more "fair" & believe that if BUSH/PETRAEUS/LIEBERMAN (people who, IMO, are less driven by politics/polls and have shown personal convictions) decide the costs of staying in Iraq outweighs benefits, then I'll respect their decisions.
The big issue is IF HRC is our next POTUS, I don't have the same confidence in her decision....but I'll support it and see what happens and also how well she prepares the country for post-withdrawal craps-to-be!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 2:51pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 2:43pm
Nope. None of those things. Just not worth the effort lately. But you go right on swinging the ignore club. It's giving me a "HAPPY" face. Nothing says comedy like a conservative poster here only to antagonize others threatening to ignore people.
{smile . . . chuckle . . . snort}
Posted by Hman23 at 09/10/2007 @ 2:53pm
Looks like the Iraqi's are on to Patreus as well.
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 1:19pm
and on to bremer and to general first and to general second and to general third and to general westmoreland (oops a little too far back)
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:56pm
liberty, rio, happy---
how could the "finest military in the world", one that spends more than all other countries in the world combined, not pacify a single metropolis? we are spending ludicrous amounts of tax dollars on an enormously powerful military which cannot pacify a single f*cking metropolis in one of the poorest countries on earth.
this single fact is proof that the military cannot create the security conditions necessary for political reconciliation in that country . we are standing in the middle of a huge civil war in which less than 3% of the fighters are al-qaeda related, and of those some 2% are foreign born. so your argument about this being a war on terror is just ridiculously, patently, absurdly false on its face.
get a new argument guys, and also, get over to iraq and start fighting you pussies.
Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2007 @ 2:57pm
"Anglo-American resource exploitation"
very good mr outbush
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 2:58pm
It's all that home-skoolin' that produces such "people".
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 2:18pm
not necessarily
i just spent a school year home-schooling my son and he is (at 7 years) quite a gentle, questioning soul.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 3:01pm
Posted by HMAN23 09/10/2007 @ 2:36pm
i'm not worried.
we both like beer.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 3:03pm
i'd like to see how rio, liberty and bravo would react if iran attacked and occupied canada. cuz that's pretty much what we're doing to iran right now. and making overt threats, nonetheless.
how would you feel, as a middle class iranian (just like rio, but iranian), with children, watching the american military make threats, while occupying a neighboring country?
all i can say is: no wonder nobody trusts the americans anymore.
Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2007 @ 3:03pm
it's purely natural, even responsible, to question petraeus, and vigorously, especially given the fact that the WHITE HOUSE has ADMITTED that they have written the report.
and t hey have been touting the success of the surge in al anbar, despite that fact that al anbar had reaced that stage of progress w/out american help PRIOR TO THE SURGE.
Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2007 @ 3:05pm
To paraphrase Bob Schieffer, real success would be obvious, and would not require dogs, ponies, or hack salesmen wearing medals.
Posted by DRHAMMER 09/10/2007 @ 2:37pm
i agree. just wanted to point out ABELL12CT's blind faith.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 3:06pm
how could the "finest military in the world", one that spends more than all other countries in the world combined, not pacify a single metropolis?
by DARLADOON
very well put.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 3:07pm
threatening to ignore people.
{smile . . . chuckle . . . snort}
Posted by HMAN23 09/10/2007 @ 2:53pm
We just have a different philosophy on blogging! I enjoy reading opponents' views with substance and want to respond/rebut....but I don't want to waste time with boiler-plate GOP/Conservative-putdowns.....I just rather spend several comments on one quality opponent than read crap from my "ignored"! When you get down to it, the people I `talk' to, are the people I would not mind meeting...some I would even look forward to....the rest, why bother? The universe of bloggers are like the universe of stocks....I can't monitor 6,000+...so, I monitor perhaps 150! Here, more bloggers are on my ignore list than not....but I'm always looking to add, hehehe...
As a self-employed person, my time is actually worth more to me than sitting in some corp. office knowing I can waste 2,3 4 hours per day and still `perform'!
Those that denigrate my talking about the stock market fails to recognize that this is what I do and it strikes at the heart of socialistic BS and it serves to get my pro-Capitalist message out in an honest way....
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 3:10pm
frosty, and it is proof that it is the STRATEGY that isn't working. never has, never will.
and further proof that liberals don't hate the military, they just hate the strategy, and the incompetent and dangerous fools, that are employing it.
soldiers = props
bush hates the troops, period.
Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2007 @ 3:11pm
hasn't anybody every thought about this:
it as hot as f##k in iraq in the summer.
i wouldn't even get off the couch, let alone dig a hole for an IED in that heat.
no wonder this is in september.
wake me when september ends
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 3:11pm
BLUE, I would hate to disagree w/you in your personal life....since you obviously use very liberally the words I bolded--coming from MoveOn.org, BERMAN & NICHOLS--when you disagree w/your wife/husband, your parents, your children, your neighbors, your doctors, your co-workers, maybe even your BOSS!
Fair enough, change "disagree with" to "question the credibility of". It still works and I stand by it: To question the credibility of a general is not equivalent to "attacking the military," you moron. The man has fiddled about with the stats to make things look better than they are; his credibility SHOULD be questioned by all good Americans.
And, Happy, I would be proud to be on the ignore list of a Tory like you.
Posted by BlueSpark at 09/10/2007 @ 3:14pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 2:51pm
Uh, HAPP...didn't answer my question.
Is LVLIB "attacking the military" when he (generously) COMPARES Major General John Batiste to "traitors and cowards"?
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 3:14pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/10/2007 @ 3:11pm
Good eye....something few remember....insurgent attacks ALWAYS went down in the Summer in Iraq.
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 3:15pm
i just spent a school year home-schooling my son and he is (at 7 years) quite a gentle, questioning soul.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/10/2007 @ 3:01pm
I'm sure he gets that from his parents.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 3:15pm
HAPPY you gotta remember that Nichols and Berman have one point and only one point in mind when they write here: That is to discredit and blast anyone and anything that smacks of seeing this war out to victory or even a stalemate. The facts, in this endeavor, become irrelavent to them. Personally, I'm opposed to continuing it in its present form. We made some serious logistical mistakes in the beginning that administration stubbornness has rendered damn near unsolvable. However I've come to recognize serious journalism versus agenda driven pieces. The latter are to be dismissed
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2007 @ 3:16pm
Posted by DARLADOON 09/10/2007 @ 2:57pm
You need to brush up on how our military is trained and how everything learned from the Vietnam War on gurilla warfare was essentially thrown out when we `lost'.....there is the realization today, that no country will challenge us in any `conventional' sense and our military training HAS to change.....sophisticated weaponry are not useful to distinguish civilians from foes when they all wear the same cloth, have beard and live on the same block!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 3:19pm
Is LVLIB "attacking the military" when he (generously) COMPARES Major General John Batiste to "traitors and cowards"?
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 3:14pm
Give me a break, I can barely keep up w/my own back-and-forth much less anybody else.....
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 3:23pm
I would be proud to be on the ignore list of a Tory like you.
Posted by BLUESPARK 09/10/2007 @ 3:14pm
Well, I guess I want to make someone else HAPPY and proud today and I'll grant you your `proudness'.....please do likewise w/me and no backstabbing!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 3:25pm
....to recognize serious journalism versus agenda driven pieces. The latter are to be dismissed...
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 09/10/2007 @ 3:16pm
Unfortunately, we can't put specific writers on our "ignore" list :))))...but I guess it's a two-way street......but reading NICHOLS and BERMAN makes me appreciate the more serious journalists like Corn....
Wonder what's happened to Maureen Dawd (not that I consider her `serious')? Haven't seen anything of hers for quite a while!
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 3:30pm
Don't know, Hap. Havn't heard from her either. I'd never put any writer on ignore though. Gives you an idea where the Mainstream/Out of the Mainsteam line is. Besides, we all need a good laugh now & again, eh?
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2007 @ 3:55pm
AQ's evil has been exposed widely among Arabs, even repudiated by their own sect (the Sunni Arabs)!
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 2:37pm | ignore this person
actually islam* does a better job of exposing their evil to muslims than bushco.
and hasn't america shown itself to be, at the very least, not nice thanks to cheney's grand plan for iraq?
after 9/11, some of the best anti-al-qaeda (idiots) intelligence came from iran and syria.
lost opportunities.
*i'm not a theologist. but people i've read who do know there sh@t, continually point this out.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 4:14pm
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 3:15pm
actually it goes both ways
we all thank you
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 4:21pm
"I wrote this testimony myself. It has not been cleared by nor shared with anyone in the Pentagon, the White House or the Congress."
Such truthfulness and honesty has no place or relevance in the leftwingnut world of fantasy and lies, but then that is a given!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 09/10/2007 @ 3:22pm
who said "i am not a crook?"
he was honest, too, ¿no?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 4:23pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 3:23pm
can't take the heat.............
have a REAL beer!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 4:25pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 3:23pm
It's a real quick and simple question, HAPP...given your expertise on people who are "attacking the military" by insulting general officers....
If LVLIB compares anybody who wants us out of Iraq to "cowards and traitors", like General Batiste....is he "attacking the military"?
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 4:45pm
I question anything and everything told to me by a "loyal bushie"....
Posted by Dr Decibels at 09/10/2007 @ 5:11pm
is he "attacking the military"?
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 4:45pm
I'm not at LIBERTY to say since I'm not sure the context of his rant....but there are "cowards and traitors" in the military, as is in anything else.......my own definition would be someone life Scott Thomas Beauchamp of The New Republic's Baghdad Dairist fame whose fabrications clearly damage his comrades-in-arms and provide aid and comfort to the enemy! His wife being the fact-checker at TNR sure was handy!
Public dissent by retired military is OK......by active ranking military officers, case by case.....
Posted by Happy at 09/10/2007 @ 5:57pm
First off-topic, but funny....
it' s Schoolhouse RIO BRAVO from The Simpsons [youtube.com]!
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 7:35pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 5:57pm
Nice dodge, HAPP...you seem perfectly able to declare "this" or "that" "attacking the military....
here was a poster suggesting TREASON and COWARDICE if you oppose staying in Iraq...and a retired general doesn't, ergo according to LL he's a traitor and coward...yet you "aren't sure of the context"?!?!?
Posted by Mask at 09/10/2007 @ 7:37pm
His wife being the fact-checker at TNR sure was handy!
Posted by HAPPY 09/10/2007 @ 5:57pm | ignore this person
Ah yes...more patented HappyHS.
Patraeus was placed in charge of 'the surge'...then was asked to report on how well he was doing his job. And of course, his 'fact checker' was...himself!
This is of course, perfectly OK with Happy...'cause everything in the report is stuff he agrees with. It's only when Happy disagrees with the stuff being reported, that suddenly he's so concerned about the 'credibility' of those doing the reporting.
Boy, if Patraeus ever says something that doesn't make Happy 'happy'...it'll be off to the 'ignore' bin with him like all of the others who dare to speak words that might pop the 'happy' bubble!!
Posted by Lillian at 09/10/2007 @ 9:53pm
I question anything and everything told to me by a "loyal bushie"....
Posted by DR DECIBELS 09/10/2007 @ 5:11pm
what if they shaved?
;-)
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 11:20pm
Posted by MASK 09/10/2007 @ 7:35pm | ignore this person
thank you. muchas gracias. merci. shukran jazeelan.
from the cbc, no less.
should be shown in civics class, day 1
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2007 @ 11:27pm
So being able to say he'll reduce troops by 30K in a year, but then also saying any arbitrary deadlines would be detrimental to Iraqi success... must be that one or both are lies. Betray us he did. The numbers are real:
The stat's Patraeus/hsuB/cHeney are putting out are BS. Iraqi and US troop death is up 60% from this period of time last year:
Year____Jan__Feb__Mar__Apr__May__Jun__Jul__Aug__TOTAL
2006 ___62___55___31___76___69___61___43___65___462
2007 ___83___81___81__104__126__101___79___84___739
Iraqi Security Forces and Civilian Deaths
Period___Total ______Period___Total
Aug-07___1674 _____Aug-06___2966
Jul-07 ___1690 ______Jul-06 ___1280
Jun-07___1345 ______Jun-06____870
May-07___1980 _____May-06___1119
Apr-07___1821 ______Apr-06___1009
Mar-07___2977 ______Mar-06___1092
Feb-07___3014 ______Feb-06 ____846
Jan-07___1802 ______Jan-06 ____779
TOTAL__16,303_______________9,961
More US Troop wounded than this time last year:
Jul-2007____608_____Jul-2006____525
Jun-2007___ 744____ Jun-2006___ 459
May-2007___655 ____May-2006___442
Apr-2007___ 649_____Apr-2006___433
Mar-2007___ 618_____Mar-2006___496
Feb-2007___ 517_____Feb-2006___342
Jan-2007___ 639_____Jan-2006___289
http://icasualties.org/oif/
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/11/2007 @ 12:17am
good morning to all:
a sad day in mexico, a few years ago
the secretary told me,
and so i ran to the t.v. (the one with the good reception)
and i saw and didn't believe
and i changed the channel
but it wouldn't go away
a crash? the chaos. the bystander standing by,
hoping as i was, as you were (where were you?)
dust, screaming, bewilderment, "MOVE, NOW!"
as if one could put order to the insanity
and yet time was frozen
so much confusion
yet time was frozen
now the radio, too
i called my wife
"oye, no vas a creer lo que pasó"
"i know" i said, "i'm watching CNN en español"
and then, the rumours, the hope stopped.
and the icy grip on time was shattered
as the second testament to,
what shall i call it?
hate, malice, ignorance,
nothing will suffice
insufficient words suffer when faced with
such a daunting task
and people leapt one last time
praying to land in the arms of those who wanted them back
and time raced forward and backward--but with what aim?
one cannot feel empathy for the dead,
for death is theirs alone.
but to those trapped, trapped
because they forgot their lunch box
or wanted to get a good start that day
i felt their pain and fear and why? why? why?
if only for a moment
and then i could not share their pain
now, no one could.
we could only run
my condolences to all
fz
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/11/2007 @ 02:47am
The stat's Patraeus/hsuB/cHeney are putting out are BS. Iraqi and US troop death is up 60% from this period of time last year
But, don't you see, this just shows how successful the surge is. Our plan was so brilliant and so well implemented by those gods in uniform I call "the troops" that the insurgents are now so desperate that they have to get in all their ass-kicking and killing right away, because a glorious U.S. victory is just around the next corner. Soon they will all be dead and no one will ever come to replace them. -- Dick "Dreamland" Cheney
Posted by BlueSpark at 09/11/2007 @ 07:59am
Christ,FROSTY! Do you have to repeat long post on every thread!
BTW, nothing personal, I don't tend to read most long posts (LRJones & SRJ excepted)....I know you have certain talent either of an original nature or cut-n-paste from elsewhere.....but you know what they say, time is money!
Posted by HAPPY 09/11/2007 @ 10:51am
Posted by Happy at 09/11/2007 @ 10:53am
Home schoolers set their children up for later failure in the real world when they finally leave their parents's deranged basement "school"
this is major bullshit. typical garbage from uninformed posters.
I know several homeschooled kids, who all did fine when they finally did enter the public schools, high school and college.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/11/2007 @ 10:58am
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 09/11/2007 @ 1:43pm | ignore this person
we at war with Syria? how are they our enemy? did we not send a canadian citizen to Syria to be tortured?
Liverty, you see nothing but enemies, because you are a hate filled individual.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/12/2007 @ 08:01am
liverty, Suadi Arabia too funds terrorists. are they our enemy?
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/12/2007 @ 09:47am
liverty, Suadi Arabia too funds terrorists. are they our enemy?
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/12/2007 @ 09:47am
kinda
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/12/2007 @ 11:12am
Petreus credible? he collects a paycheck from Bush. that is all you need to know.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/12/2007 @ 11:39pm
Hi,
Thought this news might be of some interest to your readers:
NEW moveon.org TV ad coming out on Monday Sept 17th...basically calling President Bush a traitor.
Catch it here: MoveOn.org TV Ad [iraqsinconvenienttruth.com]
For General David Betray Us fans or not: General David Betray Us [davidbetrayus.com]
Have a great weekend! Steve
Posted by streamline5 at 09/14/2007 @ 11:45pm