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RedditMany of you may not have had the time to tune into the testimony of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales before the Senate Judiciary Committee. So, as a public service, here's just the nub of what you need to know about his morning appearance, as taken down by your trusty scribe. Think of it as a little 3-minute primer for a busy world on the state of (in)Justice (Department of…) in America:
Gonzales' introductory statement: "I shoulda been more precise… My misstatements were my mistakes, no one else's… I have been extremely forthcoming with information… not the actions of someone with something to hide…"
Responses to Committee Chairman Sen. Leahy (D-VT.): "I can only recall… I don't recall… I did not know… it appears… I was not responsible for… I have no recollection… Again, Senator, I was not responsible for compiling that… I don't recall a specific mention… It appears… as I recall… I don't recall Senator Dominici ever…That rationale was not in my mind, as I recall… Senator, that's an answer that I have to get back to you… Senator, I'd like to give you that information, but…"
Responses to Sen. Specter (R-PA.): "Senator, I don't want to quarrel with you… Based on what I thought, what I understood was going on… I believed that was ongoing… I don't recall… What I recall is… I don't recall whether Mr. Mercer presented me the numbers… Senator, I have no recollection about that, but I presume that that is true… Senator, I do recall having a conversation with Mr. Rove… Senator, you're talking about a series of events that occurred over possibly 700 days… putting it in context, Senator, I would say that my involvement was limited… Senator, of course, in hindsight…"
Reponses to Sen. Kennedy (D-MA.): "I think that's a fair question, Senator… I was not the person in the Department who had the most information… Since then, I have gone back and looked at the documents available to Congress… I'm not aware that anyone… I believe that I had a good process… Senator, I did not review the document… Senator, I think it's a good question… I don't recall in connection to this review process Mr. Sampson was involved in… I don't recall everyone who was there… Senator, there may have been other discussions…"
Responses to Sen. Brownback (R-KS.): "I do not recall what I knew about… I just don't recall the reason… It appears there were concerns about… Now, in hindsight… I'm not aware of any new facts here… She's the other person, quite candidly, Senator, that I don't recall… I myself was confused, quite frankly, when I testified… Generally, I recall…"
Responses to interjection by Chairman Leahy: "Sir, I don't recall sending a follow-up quite frankly. I don't know if it was a mistake or misstatement in my testimony… "
Responses to Sen. Kohl (D-WI.): "Senator, I was never aware… Senator, again, this is a process that was ongoing that I didn't have transparency into… With all due respect Senator… he's the person who has the answers… Senator, I'll go back and see if there is something that I can do… We've done great things!..."
Senator Feinstein (D-CA.): "Senator, I don't recall specifically the genesis of the idea… I don't have any recollection about the mechanics of the legislative process… As I recall, his updates were brief… as Mr. Sampson gave me updates, I don't recall… I accept full responsibility… Senator, I don't recall making the decision that day… I don't recall exactly when I made the decision… Senator, I don't recall knowing whether… Senator, I don't know that…"
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Where's the beef?
Posted by nathanhale at 04/19/2007 @ 5:03pm
Pretty predictable wouldn't you say?
Any AG with such a poor memory ought to resign.
Posted by OneVote at 04/19/2007 @ 5:07pm
Much ado about nothing...At least when Hillary had her "I don't recall" momments there was something to hide...this is a witch hunt and Spector should ignored by the Repubs for going along with this charade...
And Gonzo should be fired for incompetnence in running the office. Firings like this should have handed down by memo and that should have been the end of it. They are govt employees and should be able to find work in the private sector.
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 5:11pm
Firings like this should have handed down by memo and that should have been the end of it. Posted by JOHN MAASCH
They were fired out of partisan considerations--that's why things were not done as they should have been! You really are an ignorant ass, you old lying coward.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/19/2007 @ 5:24pm
He is either a liar, an idiot, or both as based on his testimony. Time to go....
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/19/2007 @ 5:27pm
Republicans: WRONG ON JUSTICE
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 5:45pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/19/2007 @ 5:41pm
Skeeered Luvvy? Worried sick over Iran? Afraid their going to nuke your little corner of Kansas?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/19/2007 @ 5:47pm
On an unrelated front, Rep John Dolittle R-CA, steps down. Another Abramoff-ite
http://tinyurl.com/228vo9
LL
you don't think that the Administration is corrupt, and trying to stay that way, isn't newsworthy?
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/19/2007 @ 6:52pm
.this is a witch hunt and Spector should ignored by the Repubs for going along with this charade
john, can you provide us the courtesy of using only applicable or historically-correct terms? this trial is anything but a "witch hunt," not even in the lexicon of the anti-communist 1950s or in the anti-wiccan hysteria of the middle ages. gonzalez has issued a literal mountain of blatantly contradictory testimony for the last 5-6 months. he is the f*cking most prominent symbol of the department of justice, a non-partisan arm of the federal government.
there are also the sworn testimonies of 8 federal attorneys, all of whom state, under oath, that they had refused to pursue cases against democrats prior to the election. gonzalez has been anything but forthcoming; in fact, he has been evasive, amnesia-plagued, and even hostile.
are you actually opposed to the rule of law playing itself out? and how, i might ask, does this remind you of the mccarthy trials?
you probably won't answer, which is a sign of your becoming more and more bush-like with each passing week.....
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:10pm
Now we find out they may be less than 2 years away from that
the only proof of this came from an "unnamed" official (with no known capacity).....
obviously liberty takes everything at its word......doesn't do any research.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:12pm
i am so sick and tired with the right wing in this country. they are so far removed from the reality of.......logic (for lack of a better word), that it's becoming quite terrifying. they scoff at the fact that the vast majority of earthlings distrust (or even detest) the united states, don't care, and continue to assert their false pride in the president and his policies. the united states is a failed country, a declining empire, and the most arrogant and nationalist country on the planet.....
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:14pm
"They were fired out of partisan considerations--"
As they all are and no evidence of anything else is there...he(Gonzo) should be fired for incompetence, as I imagine you should since your posts and rants are an indication of your temper and obviously unstable personality traits.
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 7:21pm
Orrin Hatch is the only Republican Senator who didnt rake Goshzales over the coals, some of them said "I wont ask you to resign but here are the reasons why you should".
Orrin Hatch is the only Republican defender of Goshzales on the Judiciary Committee, the only one, the only one, yet as long as Bush digs in on this attorney thing, will be as long as this thing hangs around the neck of the entire Republican Party and the entire Conservative ideology.
Conservatives: WRONG ON JUSTICE
Republicans: WRONG ON JUSTICE
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 7:24pm
maasch, so you believe that the sworn testimonies of the fired attorneys are insignificant?
remember, the burden of truth is not upon the committee, but upon gonzalez to simply come clean. also remember, gonzalez should never be in a position to prove his innocence. that should simply be out in the open.....but since it's not in the open, and since he has repeteadly issued contradictory testimony, he simply has no credibility, which leads people to believe that these attorneys were indeed fired for political reasons.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:26pm
Lindsey Graham: Disgusted with Goshzales
Arlen Specter: Disgusted with Goshzales
Jeff Sessions: Disgusted with Goshzales
John Kyl: Disgusted with Goshzales
Orrin Hatch: Disgusting Piece of Shhit
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 7:27pm
it's plainly evident that not a single right winger on this site is capable of forming solid debate points. everything maasch and liberty have said up until now is easily refutable.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:28pm
& Brownback & Grassley
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 7:31pm
Download Video & Audio of the Goshzales Hearing: www.cspan.org
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 7:35pm
"you probably won't answer, which is a sign of your becoming more and more bush-like with each passing week.....
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 7:10pm
Sure I will answer you..I don't think he had done ANYTHING illegal or wrong..distasteful, unprofessional, perhaps, but I find all these investigations a little , ah ,political as opposed to criminal.
I know, I know, for years here all have been pointing out the lies, stealing , stripping the Constitution, illegal this , illegal that..all the hysterics of chicken little they are so fond of slinging...
...but...it is at best there own beliefs, certainly nothing any lawyer worth his salt would file any charges on ..otherwise every hungry lawyer would be doing exactly that..a chance to be an American hero and save us al from the dictator..BUSH!!!!,
but...still there is..
Zero, nada, no, kein, nichts, zip indictments, arrests, plea bargains, admissions, findings, of anything wrong or guilty, ANYWHERE...only one guy found guilty of lying about a crime that never happened..
only the rants of those here.... the usuual suspects..MT, Frank, DR LOUDMOUTH, FROMBIRDSHITFORBRAINS,...everyone on this far left of far left sites..
Nothing...except all those here who, ah, just know it...funny, tho, how no one takes ANY of them seriously...kinda like a strike where 12 (a jury, coincidentaly) show up..and it makes headlines...here...
as far as my "Bush like"....apparently you have never read anything I posted, which is OK, except if you had you would understand where I stand and always have stood regarding Bush(both of them) and the painful fact that we have no conservatives in govt...anywhere...they all betrayed the Reagan sweep.
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 7:40pm
"maasch, so you believe that the sworn testimonies of the fired attorneys are insignificant? "
Doesn't matter what I believ or don't believe..it was not my call and according to the past, as far as I have heard, it is a presidential perogative...politics is a tough business and not for whimps...just watch how Hillary plays...the highway is loaded with bodies she and her husband have thrown under the bus in the last 16 years or more.....they play for keeps as they are the only ones today who know how to play it...
Doesn't matter..they can be fired..as in my job..I can be fired,even tho I think I may be doing well, it is in the realm of my boss to fire me..Thats life...do you think any of these will be hired back? Forget it,,,they should be out trying to find work and I assure you the publicity will not help them in finding a job...
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 7:46pm
but I find all these investigations a little , ah ,political as opposed to criminal
uh, john, i have news for you:
this isn't a criminal investigation
got it?
now, let's move on.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:56pm
john, you still cannot admit basic facts: all 8 attorneys swore, under oath, that they were unjustly fired for refusing to pursue democrats prior to the election.
DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 7:58pm
now, let's move on.
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 7:56pm |
If they are political, then Gonzo should have refused to show up and he should have moved on to completing his job...
I have moved on,I never stopped at these hearings at all, in case you don't realize, I didn't pay much attention to anything any of these comittes are doing...which is why I am saying it is a witch hunt, and will go off in their own faces over time..
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 7:59pm
in other words, gonzalez was told to go after democrats before an election......
does this not seem intensely partisan to you?
so intensely partisan that it should raise red flags everywhere? the justice dept being abused by the most partisan white house in history? nahhhhhh, say it ain't so!
john, your head is stuck in the friggin' mud, dude. you are so incredibly clueless, it's staggering....
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:00pm
.which is why I am saying it is a witch hunt, and will go off in their own faces over time..
john, please, please please do not use the term witch hunt here. gonzalez is the hunter, not the committee (which, incidentally, includes many republicans).
second, blow up in whose face? you mean the guy whom every top republican is asking to resign?
asking to resign = dude, you got f*cking smeared in testimony today, so give it up.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:01pm
again, can't admit basic facts:
1. THIS IS NOT A CRIMINIAL INVESTIGATION!
john, come to earth please.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:02pm
"john, you still cannot admit basic facts: all 8 attorneys swore, under oath, that they were unjustly fired for refusing to pursue democrats prior to the election.
DOES THIS MAKE ANY SENSE TO YOU?
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 7:58pm |
JESUS CHRIST DARLA!!You just said it is a political affair,,what would you EXPECT them to say? Yeah, I am notvery competent and I shoiuld have been fired? espercially when yopu have clods like Leahey on TV? Please!! Of course they are going to say it was unjustified..most people fired, especially those who don't see it coming, NEVER feel their firing is justified!!!!!!!!
I am bored...I am in Phoenix and going out to dinner with friends, leftys and righties..for some INTELLECTUAL discussions on real topics...
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 8:04pm
Darla,
Move on.
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 8:04pm
up until now, it is presumed that no presidency would blatantly abuse the department of justice to pursue its own partisan agenda (an extreme agenda, i might add, which includes banning all abortions, making christianity the national religion, etc, etc). l....but now we know, that bush has been doing just that......
does anyone care? only those loyal to the constitution, the rule of law, transparent government, honest politicians, etc, etc....
anyone, and i mean ANYONE, defending gonzalez is basically admitting that they don't care about any of the above....
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:04pm
basically, john, i'm hammering you with FACTS.....which you refuse to accept. denial is the first step, and then anger. it's quite common.
the attorneys were NOT fired for performance reasons, john, they were fired BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PURSUE DEMOCRATS IN AN ELECTION SEASON. does this make sense?
so, go ahead, and eat in that god forsaken shit hole of a city.....
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:07pm
these 8 attorneys were not competent?!
oh, brother.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:08pm
oh, but monica goodling, now SHE was competent.
she (seriously) got her law degree from Pat Robertson University (not kidding).
no law degree! NO LAW DEGREE! period. NO LAW DEGREE!
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:08pm
"basically, john, i'm hammering you with FACTS"
No those are not facts Darla, those are your tuely held beliefs..
as far as hammering...I equate your hammering with someones ex wife offering "helpfull"suggestions loudly..I am not influenced by your "logic" Darla, sorry....I don't see the world as you do...and never will..
so move on is good advice..
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 8:10pm
Goshzales's hearing preparation was modeled after Pat Robertson Regent University's bar exam preparation.
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 8:28pm
Republican Parth: OWNS the Goshzales debacle, Bush, and Iraq
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 8:31pm
No those are not facts Darla, those are your tuely held beliefs
john, do you read the papers? watch the news? opinion pieces? blogs? anything?
it is plainly obvious that you haven't been following this case at all. it is well known that all 8 attorneys were fired (at best) under highly dubious reasoning. at worst, they were fired for partisan political reasons (which is supported under their testimony, as well as the testimony of aides and political figures). how is this not logic, john?
second, the top aide to gonzalez (in the highest justice department in the land) does not even have a law degree, and she refuses to testify. nothing wrong, eh john? she's just taking the 5th because she doesn't want to engage in "theater"?
anyone with even a shred of intelligence would want to probe further. evidently, john is not interested in facts or logic, just bar talk (read: tits and ass).
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:35pm
it's no wonder this country is mired in a pile of huge shit: because people like maasch finally got their way. they got everything they wanted, seriously. everything. low taxes, no constitution, endless wars, and a free market ideology that pervades the land.....
now look what we have: this makes the 30s look like eden.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:37pm
perhaps maasch will respond to simplicity:
dear john, is or is not this a criminal trial?
your answer?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:38pm
question 2:
has gonzalez been accused of a crime?
your answer?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:39pm
question 3:
if congressional figures (on both sides of the aisle) see red flags, is it their duty to investigate the situation as soon as possible?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:39pm
question 3:
if congressional figures (on both sides of the aisle) see red flags, is it their duty to investigate the situation as soon as possible?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:39pm
question 4:
if many republicans also want gonzalez to resign, then why are only the democrats engaging in "political theater"?
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:40pm
obviously, maasch won't answer any questions which make him look stupid.
that's funny, sounds precisely like gonzalez.
Posted by darladoon at 04/19/2007 @ 8:41pm
5: If Bush digs in more on this, what does that do for the GOP?
Posted by conshame at 04/19/2007 @ 9:20pm
.....the attorneys were NOT fired for performance reasons, john, they were fired BECAUSE THEY REFUSED TO PURSUE DEMOCRATS IN AN ELECTION SEASON....
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 8:07pm | ignore this person
Disclaimer: I don't follow this attorney firing closely....unlike most of you who do seem to have 48 hrs/day! I do know the general arguments of "serve at the President's pleasure" & "political appointees are, duh, political" and as to whether Gonzo is competent or not, that's another issue (non-political) altogether!
Now, just going by the comments, particularly DARLA's, it seems to me if the `Gang of 8 GOP appointees' refused to pursue Dems while there are grounds to do so, ESPECIALLY in an election season, then, guess what, fire them. Sounds like 8 of SC Justice David Suder to me--appointed by the GOP but mostly serve/protecting the Dems!
Posted by Happy at 04/19/2007 @ 10:26pm
MAASCH is pretty close on this one. Gonzo should go because he can't get the job done. He also has bizarre ideas about the law and the powers of the president which may lead to a Unitary Hillary.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/19/2007 @ 10:37pm
John and Happy,
You both miss the point of this scandal entirely. It is not simply about politics, but about the attempts to influence the process of prosecutions and the firings that resulted from that. The entire push on these USA's to pursue voter fraud was a political move from the beginning, and it failed under their expert scrutiny. Lam, Inglesias, and all the others have made it clear that they did preliminary work on this but found the investigations unfruitful and turned to other priorities. They did what we expect USA's to do, follow the law and the evidence rather than directions from others on who and when to prosecute. The same was true of other prosecutions against Democrats that were pushed to these USA's. There is also mounting evidence that those Republicans they targeted for investigation (Rep. Issa's name, for instance, has come up prominently in this) were also a factor in their firing.
This is what is really being investigated here, not the process of the firings, but the why of the firings. To simply say "well, they're political appointees so it's okay if they were fired for political purposes" utter missed the point. If the why in all this is what it now appears to be, that this was an attempt by BushCo and their Congressional allies to influence prosecutions, then a Federal felonies have been committed, specifically obstruction of justice. Anyone involved in the cover-up of such a crime is themselves guilty of obstruction. Now do you understand why so many on the left are taking this so seriously? If the power of federal prosecution can be influenced by political authorities and aimed at those they wish to destroy for partisan purposes, then we no longer live in the America of the Founders, we live in a police state that can destroy a citizen at will. I for one will have no part of this, and you should be ashamed to defend BushCo even for resisting the investigation into such a serious matter.
Posted by Stwriley at 04/19/2007 @ 11:01pm
St,. patient and lucid, and probably more than they deserve.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/19/2007 @ 11:32pm
Do you understand that the Judicial branch of our government is supposed to be non-partisan and not accountable to the people....
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/19/2007 @ 10:32pm | ignore this person
"supposed to be non-partisan", Good one! I'm ROTFLMAO!
Like the MSM is "supposed" to just report the news? Liberals are "supposed" to be, ahmmm, liberals? Faculties that are "supposed to be" fostering diversity of ideas? Like Harry Reid is "supposed to be" a leader and not the latest flip-flopper? Like you are "supposed to be" an atheist but gets up Easter morning to hide Easter Eggs? A fetus is "supposed to be" born? VT shooter Cho was "supposed to be" put away somehow after how many `troubling' symptoms?
I'll give you my personal guarantee, NOTHING is always "supposed to be"! Maybe it's the moonbats' perpetual expectations of "supposed to be", as a religion, that lead you to chase ta-il/les after ta-il/les!
"not accountable to the people...", OK, if you say so!
Posted by Happy at 04/19/2007 @ 11:33pm
"I can't recall", 71 times, really needs to resign his office. He's a real stain on the Judiciary. "
Someone tell this Einstein that he should goggle Hillary and "I don't recall"...maybe he won't be so anxious to lick her balls sopublicly any more.
Posted by john maasch at 04/19/2007 @ 11:44pm
Posted by HAPPY 04/19/2007 @ 11:33pm
Sociopathic looter mentality. My personal morality doesn't matter so long I can cover my anti-soocietal self aggrandizing behaviors by attacking the supposed moral failings of the very people I am swindling. That is how it is -- suckers! At least with P.T. Barnum, we were entertained while we were being swindled. Hell, these guys don't even try.
A caricature of the entire Sinclair Lewis canon played out in real time.
Posted by canaar at 04/19/2007 @ 11:45pm
John and Happy,
...The entire push on these USA's to pursue voter fraud was a political move from the beginning,
Posted by STWRILEY 04/19/2007 @ 11:01pm | ignore this person
Pursue voter fraud is a critical funtion and I don't see why it was deemed a "political move"...unless of course, Dems were primarily the suspects...perhaps I see your view of fraud investigations as "political move".
I don't care to invest the time to get in the nitty-gritties and we'll just see where all this will lead to! It is clear the Dem Congress really has no other better things to do!
In a "supposed to be" better world, we are all libs, all conservatives, all communists or all libertarians (music: what I truly want to be)!
Posted by Happy at 04/19/2007 @ 11:47pm
Someone tell this Einstein that he should goggle Hillary and "I don't recall"...maybe he won't be so anxious to lick her balls sopublicly any more
oh, i seem to have forgotten that hillary was under investigation for something....(snark). and just in case you forgot, maasch, two wrongs do not make a right. again, you fail to persuade anyone on this forum of anything, let alone your attention to details (read: tits and asses).
i watched about 2 hours of testimony, and all i gotta say is, leahy, feingold and schumer absolutely shelled gonzo today. no contest. gonzo had not a single solid argument in all of the testimony that i watched.
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 12:01am
It is clear the Dem Congress really has no other better things to
again, re-inforcing the myth that the democrats can't do more than one thing at a time. retarded....
happy = silly
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 12:02am
not only that, happy, but the democrats are, at a bare minimum, fulfilling their role as check on a (without a doubt) extraordinarily, egregiously excessive executive branch.
do you dispute this claim? if so, then you really have no business making any more comments.
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 12:06am
MAASCH is pretty close on this one. Gonzo should go because he can't get the job done. He also has bizarre ideas about the law and the powers of the president which may lead to a Unitary Hillary
oh, just "bizarre ideas"? that's it? you mean like "warrantless snooping"? nah, that ain't a crime, that's just "bizarre." again, crabwalk, et al, totally clueless on this one. leahy, feingold, schumer---just an axe to grind, no substantive arguments, just hot air.
you people.....totally out of the loop, and clearly not paying attention to the trial.
let me break it down for you (this is a familiar pattern in this admin):
1. attorneys suddenly fired
2. initially not a big deal
3. some correpondence surfaces raising red flags
4. reporters uncover some suspicious information
5. admin releases statement later contradicted by new statements
6. contradictions cause people to raise eyebrows
7. attorneys testify with damning evidence (i.e. fired for reasons other than peformace)
8. more contradictory statements from admin
9. the AG himself contradicts original assertion that he wasn't involved by claiming he wasn't "careful".....
10. hello? anyone study law here? we got big problems.....and the AG can't tell a straight story. why not?
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 12:17am
and those who claim that this trial is a "distraction" aren't paying attention:
what's happening here is THE template of the GOP modus operandi......
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 12:20am
1-10 = no crime and no charges...nada. Just political horseshit.
Reid says war is lost...do the Dems now own the defeated side of equation? Do they represent defeat?
They just handed the GOPS a campaign commercial and a slogan if they have the balls to use it...which is seriously in doubt these days..
Posted by john maasch at 04/20/2007 @ 12:36am
Gonzales is indeed an idiot, a liar, and a (thinly veiled) totalitarian. Simply too incompetent and too dangerous to hold such a high office. Adios muchacho!
Posted by feinfein at 04/20/2007 @ 12:47am
Another point that has seemed to go unmentioned is the prevision written into the "unpatriot Act", in the middle of the night, whereby replacement USA's would not have to be confirmed by the Senate. This would allow anyone appointed by the president to be installed into a position that had to be confirmed before.
You can tell how well the Senators like this nefarious provision as it was removed just as soon as the implications of the provision were identified.
Gonzalez told the Senate in early testimony that he would never appoint anyone to USA without Senate approval. The replacement USA's are all in place without having to meet with the Senate.
Gonzalez lied in his earlier testimony as is evident in one of Sampson emails where he stated to the effect "why did we put it in the Act if we're not going to use it."
This all reminds me of the '50's and the McCarthy hearings where ol' Joe was looking for Communists infiltrating the government. This is just the opposite, it is the NeoNuts using the power they have to infiltrate the courts and the justice department to be able to control our laws and our elections to keep power. They were, are, trying to corrupt even farther the American principle of "Equal Justice for All".
So, it isn't about Gonzalez, it isn't about the eight fired USA's, it's all about subverting our legal system to maintain power.
"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. ... We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. ... How does one man assert his power over another ... By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is inflicting pain and humiliation. ... A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. ... If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
George Orwell - 1984
Posted by COProgressive at 04/20/2007 @ 12:57am
The Daily Show coverage was classic. Gonzo said "I don't recall" 45 times before lunch - then claimed that he knows he made the right decision....even though he couldn't recall when, or at what meeting and that he had little or no knowledge why anyone was fired....what a buffoon.
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/20/2007 @ 01:03am
But understanding real world issues is usually beyond the cognitive abilities of the simple-minded types like yourself.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1
What is it with you Bush apologist/ass lickers? Is there something in your sad pathology that makes you indulge in projection? Politicizing the appointments of US Attorneys is a no-no, period, end of story, and makes this a major issue. The point of this whole drama is that it is clear the Administration is doing its damndest to make certain that '08 goes to Republicans. This debacle is an example of that strategy. To deny that is to engage in the usual Repiglican tendency to drink the Kool-Aid. BTW, your nonsense on Iran is pure BS by neocons. But then again, when do they ever do anything else but put out disinformation, falsehoods, lies and obfuscations? Your machinations, though lame, have no standing here. Better to visit a neocon website where you and fellow Kool-Aiders can rant and rave endlessly, maybe think up how many ways you all could have saved those kids in Virginia with a little vigilante justice if it was you! A bankrupt ideology that serves no purpose.
Posted by MCE337 at 04/20/2007 @ 02:35am
The corruption in this administration is incredible! Why can't you ostritches see that?
Posted by Dale-Z at 04/20/2007 @ 02:46am
it's plainly evident that not a single right winger on this site is capable of forming solid debate points. everything maasch and liberty have said up until now is easily refutable.
Posted by DARLADOON
Of course they are, because they are just plain wrong...as are anyone of their ilk who relies on talking points they get from Fox and similar loony sources.
Posted by MCE337 at 04/20/2007 @ 02:53am
MAASCH is pretty close on this one. Gonzo should go because he can't get the job done. He also has bizarre ideas about the law and the powers of the president which may lead to a Unitary Hillary
oh, just "bizarre ideas"? that's it? you mean like "warrantless snooping"? nah, that ain't a crime, that's just "bizarre." again, crabwalk, et al, totally clueless on this one. leahy, feingold, schumer---just an axe to grind, no substantive arguments, just hot air.
you people.....totally out of the loop, and clearly not paying attention to the trial.
Posted by DARLADOON 04/20/2007 @ 12:17am
Excuse me?
1: This is not a trial.
2: bizarre |bi?zär| adjective very strange or unusual, esp. so as to cause interest - I think that fits. I have been saying his ideas are wrong for years now. Torture, kidnapping and the warrantless wiretaps should all be reasons for Gonzo to go
#; the neo-cons don't mind all that stuff, but poor management should get up their ire, and I think that is what is going on in the repub Star Chamber.
From NAtional Review, those librool scum:
"It wasn't a terribly auspicious beginning, and it's fair to say that things went downhill from there, despite Gonzales' weeks of preparation. And it did not take long for it to become clear that Gonzales' big problem was not with committee chairman Sen. Patrick Leahy and his fellow Democrats, who brought righteous indignation and little else to the hearing, but with Republicans, who brought simple, straightforward questions -- questions Gonzales often failed to answer."
And so it went. At times, Gonzales seemed not only removed from the decision-making process in the U.S. attorneys matter but also removed from his daily life as attorney general.
Gonzales explained that he had admitted his mistakes and had taken responsibility for them. "Well, I believe there are consequences to a mistake," Coburn replied. "And I would just say, Mr. Attorney General, it's my considered opinion that the exact same standards should be applied to you in how this was handled. And it was handled incompetently. The communication was atrocious. It was inconsistent. It's generous to say that there were misstatements. That's a generous statement. And I believe you ought to suffer the consequences that these others have suffered. And I believe that the best way to put this behind us is your resignation."- Byron York, well known lefty America Hating Terrorist supporting demoncrat
Which TOTALLY undermines PONTI/HAPPY etc. If the UA's can be fired for political reasons, why should the AG be protected from the same, as well as being incompetent?
sorry DARLA, you misrepresent my arguments. Gonzo should go because he can't get the job done. He long ago lost the confidence of many Americans that have been paying attention. He had a smattering of confidence from the repubs, but only out of loyalty to Chimpy. Now that is gone as well. He is left with Orrin Hatch and the rest of the American Taliban.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/20/2007 @ 08:12am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/20/2007 @ 12:36am | ignore this person
are you willing to send your son for victory in Iraq?
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 09:15am
perhaps we can have an AG WITHOUT amnesia. one would have assumed that would be a requirement for the job.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 09:18am
curious how the Tories find lying to congress by the AG perfectly acceptable, while Clinton's lie was grounds for impeachment.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 09:43am
You know, I find myself getting more and more pissed at the 36% club, so I have to remind myself about a few things:
Bush had almost unanimous bipartisan support and the sympathy empathy of almost the whole international community after 9/11 - and he pissed it away.
Bush let Osama (public enemy number one) get away so that he could focus on the real threat, Saddam - and got us involved in a quagmire that is only succeeding at kiling our soldiers.
Bush claimed that Saddam had WMD - wrong
Bush claimed that Saddam had ties with alQaeda - wrong
Bush claimed that Saddam was trying to get the fixings for a nuclear bomb from Niger - wrong
Bush claimed that our military adventure into Iraq wold be a cakewalk - wrong
Bush claimed that our troops would be wlecomed with flowers - wrong
Bush claimed "Mission Accomplished!" - wrong
Bush told FEMA head Mike Brown that the he'd done a great job in New Orleans - wrong
Bush stated that he'd fire anybody involved in the leaking of a CIA agent - wrong
The Bush White House engineered the leaking of said CIA agent for purely political gains - wrong
The Bush White House has fired US Attorneys for prosecuting Republicans/failing to pursue empty claims of voter fraud - wrong
When the Lemmings in the 36% club make their noises, it's important to remember that their heroes have been wrong on almost every issue in the last 6 years. It helps to put things in perspective.
Posted by Turk33 at 04/20/2007 @ 09:48am
The George Orwell quote from the book 1984, reminds me of the genre of Republican Intellectual literature written down by Goshzales and John Yoo.
"Torture is only when a major organ is destroyed".
Written by John Yoo and signed by Alberto Goshzales and put in a secret Executive Order by George Bush. But people found out about it, and they were forced to rescind and to create more secret torturous legal justifications.
Alberto Goshzales, big tough torturer, begging to keep his job. Only Orrin Hatch of Utah stood by him.
Patrick J. Leahy CHAIRMAN, D-VERMONT
Edward M. Kennedy D-MASSACHUSETTS
Arlen Specter RANKING MEMBER, R-PENNSYLVANIA
Joseph R. Biden, Jr. D-DELAWARE
(Orrin G. Hatch R-UTAH - stood by Goshz, will go down with him)
Herb Kohl D-WISCONSIN
Charles E. Grassley R-IOWA
Dianne Feinstein D-CALIFORNIA
Jon Kyl R-ARIZONA
Russell D. Feingold D-WISCONSIN
Jeff Sessions R-ALABAMA
Charles E. Schumer D-NEW YORK
Lindsey Graham R-SOUTH CAROLINA
Richard J. Durbin D-ILLINOIS
(John Cornyn R-TEXAS - solid Bushnik but forced to berate Goshz)
Benjamin L. Cardin D-MARYLAND
Sam Brownback R-KANSAS
Sheldon Whitehouse D-RHODE ISLAND
Tom Coburn R-OKLAHOMA
Posted by conshame at 04/20/2007 @ 09:52am
JM
"...one guy found guilty of lying about a crime that never happened."
Isn't lying to Congress reason enough to be gone-time for Gonzo? Shouldn't the head of the DOJ be a man beyond reproach? Obviously Gonzo doesn't fit the bill for such a trusted position in government - unless its at ChimpCo.
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/20/2007 @ 10:33am
JM
the situation could easily be construed (per your own logic) as Gonzo's blue dress.
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/20/2007 @ 10:34am
1-10 = no crime and no charges...nada. Just political horseshit
john, you must have been a C or D student. i repeat: this is not a criminal trial
Reid says war is lost...do the Dems now own the defeated side of equation? Do they represent defeat?
reid's view is actually putting it mildly. there is nothing to win, nor anything to defeat. we are taking potshots from various religious and ethnic groups who are engaged in a civil war.
reid is precise: the war was lost a long time ago.
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 10:47am
defeat (in maasch's view) = castration. it means NO DICKS to wave around.
Posted by darladoon at 04/20/2007 @ 10:47am
Darla, your fascination with the male organ is curious given your self proclaimed sexual orientation. could this be a case of penis envy?
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 11:28am
I don't care to invest the time to get in the nitty-gritties
Posted by HAPPY 04/19/2007 @ 11:47pm
This says it all.
Posted by Hman23 at 04/20/2007 @ 11:47am
let's
all
get
to
the
real
nitty gritty
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 11:49am
get down
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 11:49am
Shirley Ellis, Known For The Name Game, The (Real) Nitty Gritty, The Clapping Song & The Puzzle Song.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 11:51am
"are you willing to send your son for victory in Iraq?
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 04/20/2007 @ 09:15am |
My son spent 3 years in the Navy but was never sent to Iraq. He was out just before the invasion...if he were in he would have gone I am sure. I won't have been comfortable at all but there would be very littel I could do to change his situation at the time.
I would like us to come home.
Posted by john maasch at 04/20/2007 @ 12:06pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/20/2007 @ 12:06pm | ignore this person
I was talking about your younger boy. I do appreciate your view on this.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 12:42pm
They just handed the GOPS a campaign commercial and a slogan if they have the balls to use it...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/20/2007 @ 12:36am
Oh, they'll use it, John. It's their only hope in maintaining the sub-30% who still support this war.
"Duh . . . Bush says the Democrats are losers . . . and that he is a winner . . . and, uhhh . . . I wanna be a winner too . . . not a loser . . . so, errrrrr . . . I guess I want to stay the course."
Posted by Hman23 at 04/20/2007 @ 12:45pm
Another point that has seemed to go unmentioned is the prevision written into the "unpatriot Act", in the middle of the night, whereby replacement USA's would not have to be confirmed by the Senate. This would allow anyone appointed by the president to be installed into a position that had to be confirmed before. Posted by COPROGRESSIVE 04/20/2007 @ 12:57am |
And that is the crux - first we remove oversight, then anyone who doesn't toe the party line, trump up some charges to make Dems look bad so we can steal another election is OUT, and we install toadies who will do anything for partisan gain.
Jesus, it's like beating your head against a wall to get an honest response out of a neo-con loser.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/20/2007 @ 12:50pm
After bypassing the senate confirmation process it makes it so much easier to give plum jobs to incompetent Rove allies as a reward.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/20/2007 @ 12:58pm
I would like us to come home.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/20/2007 @ 12:06pm
Why? Have we already killed enough "ragheads" to suit your bloodlust? I find that hard to believe.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/20/2007 @ 1:22pm
"obviously liberty takes everything at its word..."
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 7:12pm
No, he wants you to take everything he posts "at its word". In his haste to pee in liberal lunchboxes, he will quote any source that echos his own thought process.
Posted by drhammer at 04/20/2007 @ 1:37pm
"..I can be fired,even tho I think I may be doing well, it is in the realm of my boss to fire me..Thats life..."
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/19/2007 @ 7:46pm
Yep. That is a reality that we grown-ups have to live with.
Although, if my employer were to fire me for political reasons, and then tell everyone that he fired me for performance issues, I would squarely whip his grown-up ass.
Posted by drhammer at 04/20/2007 @ 1:44pm
"obviously, maasch won't answer any questions which make him look stupid."
Posted by DARLADOON 04/19/2007 @ 8:41pm
I'm not sure that's true...
Posted by drhammer at 04/20/2007 @ 1:49pm
Posted by HAPPY 04/19/2007 @ 11:47pm
Pursue voter fraud is a critical funtion and I don't see why it was deemed a "political move"...unless of course, Dems were primarily the suspects...perhaps I see your view of fraud investigations as "political move".
And the cluelessness continues...
I think you'll find that this misconstrual technique doesn't work well here (and especially against me), but it's hardly surprising that you'd try it. I did not say that pursuing all voter fraud was political, I said that the instances pushed on these USA's were political. They all occurred in the run-up to the 2006 elections and were aimed exclusively at Democrats. They were also found in virtually all cases to be groundless accusations, even in the places where non-fired USA's wasted the time to pursue them beyond the preliminary stage of investigation. That is a clear sign that these were pushed by BushCo in the hopes of limiting Democratic turnout rather than from any real concern about voter fraud, which has been shown by both prosecutorial and independent investigation to be both rare and insignificant. Real voter fraud would be one thing, but that is not and has not been what has been found. You may wish to sweep these inconvenient facts under the rug and pretend that this is "just politics" and that those of us on the left are trying to defend suborning the electoral process, but the facts show quite the opposite; that it was BushCo, through the strong-arming of USA's, who was trying that dirty (and illegal) trick.
I don't care to invest the time to get in the nitty-gritties and we'll just see where all this will lead to! It is clear the Dem Congress really has no other better things to do!
You don't care to invest the time because you know full well you will not like the results, an exposure of criminal activity at the highest levels of our justice system. I should think that that would hardly be a waste of time for Congress or any other part of our government to pursue. Of course, this statement of yours also makes the ridiculous assumption that Congress can only do one thing at a time. Even a cursory perusal of the day's news will show that to be as far from reality as the usual contents of the Weekly World News.
In a "supposed to be" better world, we are all libs, all conservatives, all communists or all libertarians (music: what I truly want to be)!
What is "supposed to be" is that we actually have government officials that obey the law, which is hardly a utopian, pie-in-the-sky concept. It is the basis of our entire system of government and justice, absolutely essential for our basic freedoms. You can keep trying this lame line as though all on the left were somehow looking for some great "kum bah yah" moment, but the truth is that what we want is a functioning U.S. government that actually lives up to the plain meaning of the Constitution. That's the kind of government we had for over 200 years, until this current crop of kleptocrats and neo-con dreamers moved in. You may be unwilling to call them to account for their lawlessness, but the rest of us aren't.
Posted by Stwriley at 04/20/2007 @ 2:37pm
LL
I think you missed FrankG's point. Sure, these are political appointments, but once appointed they are attorneys. You can't tell them what crimes to pursue and what ones not to pursue if indeed they are crimes. The fact that all these appointees had excellent performance records decries Gonzos lies. And to fire one for these reasons is to declare laws arbitrary (noting of course, Chimpy's signing statements means he does believe that laws are arbitrary....however, that in and of itself is no reason to assume that stance is correct.)
Posted by leftofcenter at 04/20/2007 @ 3:06pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/20/2007 @ 2:48pm |
You seem very talented. Can you stand on your head while denying reality, or do you have to remain upright during that process?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/20/2007 @ 3:23pm
"You said you were not involved in any discussions, and then your subordinates testified to the contrary.
You said you did not see memoranda, but your subordinates testified under oath you were at meetings where memoranda were distributed.
You said you were not involved in deliberations, but your subordinates said you were.
You have a heavy burden of proof to reestablish your credibility."
Arlen Specter to Gone-zalez.
Guess Arlen has some doubts about Abu Gonzalez, or is he just a closet Dem who hates America too?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/20/2007 @ 3:25pm
"I have moved on,I never stopped at these hearings at all, in case you don't realize, I didn't pay much attention to anything any of these comittes are doing...which is why I am saying it is a witch hunt, and will go off in their own faces over time..
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/19/2007 @ 7:59pm " Maasch is admitting that he is essentially ignorant of any recent facts that have surfaced in this investigation, yet is willing to pontificate on it, having already made up his mind (without the new information) and proceeds to tell anyone who has paid attention to the facts that their opinion is wrong. Typical of his overbearing attitude. The rest of us can't approach Maasch's unassailable intellect, just because we've actually paid attention to the facts developed and he hasn't. No wonder his opinions never change, he's never let the facts get in the way of his opinion.
Posted by brantl at 04/20/2007 @ 5:19pm
C'mon now Tories, do you really support a civil servant who stonewalls the constitutionally mandated investigation of a congress which is nearly half Tories? really?
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/20/2007 @ 11:42pm
Not sure when Sen. Hatch actually decided to speak up, but why no answers to his questions? I've always wondered how many employees there are in the Justice dept., and one thing Gonzo did remember was attending a White House meeting with Hatch. Why no posting of the answers to those hard hitting questions?
Hopefully Hatch gets that AG spot he not so secretly wants. At least that should mean the end of his useless Senate career and I won't have to vote against again.
Posted by tsirois at 04/21/2007 @ 02:45am
Maasch," I pay no attention to the hearings, and it is because of this ignorance that I know they are witchhunts." ignorance is certitude.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/21/2007 @ 11:38am
Fitzgerald for AG.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/21/2007 @ 11:39am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 04/21/2007 @ 11:39am
I'd suggest Inglesias. His eminently more qualified than Gonzales.
Posted by Stwriley at 04/21/2007 @ 12:04pm
Rile, never in a million years for both. true to his "character" he will nominate a smash mouth candidate, who will have no chance of approval by the senate.
Posted by johannesrolf at 04/21/2007 @ 12:38pm
While I understand some of the concerns those on the right side of the political world have when it comes to a nuclear Iran, I find it hard to understand why this same right (not including the Libertarians) finds it so easy to dismiss the administrations attempt to burn our Constitution. Personally, I'd rather face a Nuked up glossy eyed Iran 1,000 times before facing the glazed over eyes of the fascists in our own governemnt. Our military is quite capable of destroying Iran at any time, regardless their Nuclear status, and guess what, if they start pointing nukes and using them, they'll have to deal with China, India, Australia, Israel, Russia and others so stop whinning about Iran. It's the internal mess that we have here in this country that is much more important. Get a grip and open your brainwashed eyes to the fact that our Constitution is under attack from Bush/Cheney and the rest of the rightwing Christian hawks.
Posted by Lucem ferre at 04/23/2007 @ 12:57pm
Can't we torture him until he tells the truth?
Posted by malrubius at 04/24/2007 @ 7:38pm