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RedditGenerally that was a predictable performance by the Decider, but one thing stuck out to me. The New Rationale TM for the war, (I've lost track of how many this is) is that the generals say the surge will work and the politicians should just butt out and let the men do their jobs. As Josh Marshall points out, this is patently untrue. The generals didn't think the surge would work so Bush replaced them with someone who did. But even more absurd is the notion that the people executing war policy should be actually determining war policy, that we should just outsource the decisions about the duration of our occupation of Iraq to the all-knowing David Petraeus.
This is particularly ironic against the backdrop of the US Attorney's scandal. The administration's MO from the very beginning has been to overide the judgement of experts and career civil servants, whether they be scientists assessing climate change, or public health officials evaluating food and drugs, or US attorneys weighing whether there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. In short they have politicized every last function of the government, so much so that the work product of the entire federal bureacracy must now be assessed as if it were little more than an RNC press release. And now, on the single most vital political issue, Bush wants to argue that politics should play no part and the judgement of a single man should dictate the entirety of US policy.
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Now Bush is on the Pelosi / Syria mantra...is he getting his talking points from the blogeshpere? Someone should tell him that the Pelosi criticism has been rebutted over and over with examples of GOPers visiting or announcing visits to Syria.
As for letting the generals "on the ground" decide the war, that's sheer lunacy. Generals are supposed to enact plans decided by elected officials, they don't get to decide overall war strategy. Bush is abdicating his authority, which is suprising given his appetite for taking powers he has no authority to claim. (But we know he's not really letting the generals decide, that's just a cute little slogan he loves to repeat hoping the flock buys it)
Posted by BlueTexan at 04/03/2007 @ 11:32am
"In short they have politicized every last function of the government, "
and with a straight face you can say the Dems have not politicized every function of government? The DEMs made a political game out of the war in Iraq as soon as they felt the public wouldn't burn them at the stake and when it was safe to come out against the war...after they voted for it.....all life is Washington is a political adventure, and to suggest only Bush or only Republicans play the game is to conviently forget the most political beings of the century..the Clintons...can't get more political than triangulation ..or Hillary
Hayes exposes himself as a political hack with arricles such as this...any guess which, left or right hack?...but a hack none the less.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 11:37am
"Generals are supposed to enact plans decided by elected officials"
Perfect recipe for defeat... and why Dems of today should never be in charge of any military force, since they are too familiar with defeat..politicians deciding war is the over bearing lesson from Viet Nam...ask McNamara...
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 11:40am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 11:37am
You don't seem to understand how the governmant functions (which is likely since you would like to do away with it). The line you cite relates to how the administration is repeatedly removing the best people for the job at places like the EPA, Health and Human Services, NASA, FEMA, and replacing them with political hacks with little or no training. They're put in place to derail the entire government and rewrite rules that benefit corporate donors.
But I think you know this, you just want to play games.
Posted by BlueTexan at 04/03/2007 @ 11:42am
Bush tells us that he is going to take the advice of Casey. Then he doesn't like what he hears and rotates him out. Then the Prez rotates Petraeus in and says that we should follow his judgment. Wish "The Decider" would decide. What a crock!
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 11:43am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
War dodging, lying cowards have no business commenting on war.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 11:44am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 11:40am
Your plan is a perfect receipe for tyranny. I don't want generals deciding what wars we fight and our main objectives. I want them to suggest options to our elected officials and execute the ones they are ordered to impliment.
If the generals had their way, they would have started WWIII over the Cuban missile crisis and Florida would still be radioactive.
We don't vote for generals, we vote for congressmen and presidents.
Posted by BlueTexan at 04/03/2007 @ 11:45am
Maasch-Try studying US history and the history of Viet Nam before you post such nonsensical comments about Democrats losing wars.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 11:48am
"the best people for the job at places ..'
The trouble is the best people are never found near government jobs...when one admin takes over from another, they have to place more of their own people deeper in the bowels as more and more hacks and beaurocrats in lower levels work against the elected officals...it happens to both sides..govt is too big to be effective..and the libs want to give it more responsibility..ridiculious.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 11:57am
Blue,
"Your plan is a perfect receipe for tyranny.'
I am refering to the generals in the field and let them run the wars they are assigned to win, by our electd officials...I think you may have read me wrong...
We had McNamara planning bombing raids instead of Air Force Generals...is my point.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 11:59am
I can think of no other admin that has politicized and attempted to centralize the guvt more than the current admin.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 11:59am
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 11:44am |
Non participants in anything have no business commenting on the daily life in America, since you contribute nothing but bile and school yards taunts...cowadice in the extreme..and you are easily dispatched ...repeatitive foolish name calling doesn't improve your position...just makes you look even more dim...and childish...to be expected of course...enjoy....you fit the stereo type precisely
You should be embarasse and ashamed of your self.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:04pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 11:57am
Why do you hate America? Your blind hatred of government is pretty astounding. You would be hard pressed to live a day of your live without enjoying the benefits of a collective society that is served by our federal government. So today, don't use the highways, seatbelts, postal service, listen to the radio, eat safe food, trade stock, or any of the hundreds of daily functions that are made safer, more efficeint and trustworthy by the work of the federal government.
Posted by BlueTexan at 04/03/2007 @ 12:04pm
govt is too big to be effective Posted by JOHN MAASCH
According to that rationale many of the US's largests corporations are not effective. And the US armed forces are not huge? And therefore, are they not effective? Bureaucracies are bureacracies whether they're public or private.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:05pm
54 years of presidents
32 years of repubs
22 of dems.
72% of circuit court judges are repub appointed
40 years of dem congress.
12 years of repub congress, plenty of time to balance budgets, create good will around the world, fix the dems mistakes.
7 of nine supremes appointed by republican president
I guess the repubs just suck at running guvt.
time for new political parties.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:06pm
Perfect recipe for defeat... and why Dems of today should never be in charge of any military force, since they are too familiar with defeat..politicians deciding war is the over bearing lesson from Viet Nam...ask McNamara...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 11:40am | ignore this person
Since we are talking about McNamara, lets get straight what he did say.
Read the part about full and frank discussion with Congress and the American people.
11 Lessons from Vietnam The origin of the film's lesson concept is the eleven lessons in McNamara's 1996 book In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam:
We misjudged then -- and we have since -- the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.
We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.
We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.
Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.
We failed then -- and have since -- to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces and doctrine… We failed as well to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.
We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.
After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.
We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.
We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.
We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.
Underlying many of these errors lay our failure to organize the top echelons of the executive branch to deal effectively with the extraordinarily complex range of political and military issues.
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 12:07pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
Old, mendacious coward. What do you know about Vietnam? The lesson that should have been learned is that you don't fight a guerilla war with a conventional army.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:08pm
Bureaucracies are bureacracies whether they're public or private.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 12:05pm
oh my god are you going to burn for such heresy!!! How dare You point out the Truth!!!!????!!
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:08pm
Blue,
"You don't seem to understand how the governmant functions (which is likely since you would like to do away with it)."
Yes,I do know how it functions, got to a DMV office,.. but I do not want to do away with it, that is foolish and impossible,..I would like to see it become effective and effcient and not over consuming...it wastes more resources than any corporation can generate...I would like to see it managed and not run on auto pilot regardless of the out come. This has been my only concern of govt...that is the bottom line...private enterprise cannot do everything and neither can govt...the left continues to want to take away anything that might generate a profit and hand it over to govt clowns who COULDN'T get hired in the private sector..due to incompetence..
Why do you think govt workers need a union?
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:09pm
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 12:08pm
who are you? Where did you learn this stuff? A history degree from Yale? MBA from harvard?
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:10pm
Posted by ONEVOTE
Don't bother. The old, lying coward only reads headlines. Indepth analysis is too much for his limited brain.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:10pm
MAASCH, i don't want you to get dragged into the 7 page miasma of this other thread, but please visit http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames/allcomments?pid=180696&rpg=7 for a quick comparison of the Dread DMV VS private companies.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:11pm
never mind, here is the salient post.
I hope the neos are still around. I have actual real world experience to compare to their theories.
I lost my wallet last week. A bummer. So now I have to replace all the stuff. I began with the BC/BS card. 20 minutes on hold, 10 to go through the process. My new card will be here in 4-6 weeks.
AETNA: 15 minutes on hold, 5 to process. Card will come in 3-5 weeks
CITIbank credit card, 25 minutes on hold last night. I gave up. Will try again today.
Discover: 15 minutes on hold, I gave up, will try again today.
AMEX, 2 minute hold, quick process. I think because it is a business card, not consumer I got good service. Kudos to AMEX.
Then comes the dreaded drivers license, THE DMV!!! DAH DUM! DAH DUM! We do a sec of states office for the DMV here, they do much more than just drivers licenses and plates. I walk in, no line, 4 clerks, 3 waiting to assist. The very, very cute clerk says "may I help you" Why, yes my dear you may. I fill out the form, show my passport, a little clickety click on the keyboard, snap! take the picture. Out the door in under ten minutes. My new license should be here in 10-14 days.
The line at McDonalds, 15 cars deep.
Yep, private enterprise is ALWAYS more efficient and consumer friendly.
Theory vs reality.
Posted by CRABWALK 04/03/2007 @ 10:05am
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:13pm
Posted by CRABWALK
I don't believe the old, lying coward is "programmed" to accept anything that conflicts with his limited, black and white operating system.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:15pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 12:09pm
Do I wish some government functions were more efficient? You bet.
But do I trust bottom-line oriented private companies (whose sole purpose is to increase profits at all costs...even if that means cheating, breaking the law...Enron, Global Crossing, etc.) to perform basic functions to ensure a safe and funtioning society? Not really.
Posted by BlueTexan at 04/03/2007 @ 12:18pm
Because I like to try and be fair, I just had a good Ecperience with Ford/Lincoln.
I ordered a wiring harness for the Crabmobile this morning after my drudgerous 10 minutes in the DMV. I think it was around 9:45. They just called, part is in!!
Inconceivable!!
Ya'll have a nice day.
Posted by crabwalk at 04/03/2007 @ 12:18pm
"The lesson that should have been learned is that you don't fight a guerilla war with a conventional army.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 12:08pm | ignore this person
I believe the lesson should have been learned that if you can't go in there and totaly take the place apart and win on every block with over whelming force, then you do not go...
also, when you send in the military you can't be suing them from the rear for doing what happens in war..brutality, death and destruction, especially with a 6th century menatilty of your enemey...you make supporting them and unacceptable price....
also from Viet Nam...12 year war ? can't cross that line when being shot at? can't bomb certain citys? You go to win compleetely and thouroghly..if you or we , as a society are not willing to do that, then we do not go..and if we go then all society MUST pay a price or participate on some level for the entire effort must be carried by the entire population....this is where we fail..
And for dumbs fucks who throw out the word cowards because one didn't wear combat boots makes my point entirely. Many serve in many ways..
Iraq was won on the ground faster than anthing they imagined in the poitical arean(thats what scared the Dems), but none of us at home had to sacrifice..this is wrong.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:18pm
but none of us at home had to sacrifice..this is wrong.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
Just like Vietman again, huh, war dodger? So were you 17? or 20 with a high draft number?
Don't you have some Third World child labor you need to exploit, you old, lying coward?
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:22pm
And all that garbage you posted: That's what a guerilla war means, jackass (i.e., it is not a conventional war).
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:24pm
40 years of dem congress.
And the laws on the books combined weight is to heavy for a man to pick up...
I am not for unbridled corporations...and the Enrons should go to jail...and the Jeffersons should not be on commitees...
hypocrisy runs deep on both sides...
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:24pm
but none of us at home had to sacrifice..this is wrong.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
John...this tax season instead of taking all your creative deductions on your 1040, how about you put your money where you mouth is. I love you guys bitching about taxes but have no problem spending other peoples' money on your grand plans for the Middle East. You are a parasitic hypocrite. Stop fighting the IRS and at least pay your way my friend.
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 12:26pm
My guess would be Harvard and Yale..thats where we get the MTs of our world..over educated incompetent clowns..totaly useless...My guess is MT will end up in govt someday..
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:27pm
why Dems of today should never be in charge of any military force, since they are too familiar with defeat..politicians deciding war is the over bearing lesson from Viet Nam...ask McNamara...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04
I thought it was your buddy NIXON who was in charge when that affair folded?
Do you have any honesty at all about you?
Or do you just make a hobby out of pissing in other peoples pools?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 12:33pm
Score a point for Bush on this week, deduct one for the Dems....and I'm not saying that in a JOYOUS way.
His little talk at lunch-time was PERFECTLY timed and constructed. Congress on vacation and Mr. Vacation (with little chance of being called a hypocrite himself) calls them out and says "Come back from your lounging around and help our troops get food and ammo!"
Meanwhile Reid and Barack Obama playing "good cop, bad cop". Reid saying he and Russ Feingold will send a TOUGHER bill to Bush if he vetos the supplemental...while Obama let's the cat out of the bag and says "Okay, okay. If he vetoes it...we'll STILL poney up the cash...that was a bluff!"
And the White House heard that and ran with it.
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 12:34pm
You should be embarasse and ashamed of your self.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @
You should go piss in someone elses pool for a change johnny boy.
I hear the freepers are looking for more wingnuts.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 12:34pm
"Posted by JOHN MAASCH
John...this tax season instead of taking all your creative deductions on your 1040, how about you put your money where you mouth is. I love you guys bitching about taxes but have no problem spending other peoples' money on your grand plans for the Middle East. You are a parasitic hypocrite. Stop fighting the IRS and at least pay your way my friend.
Posted by ONEVOTE 04/03/2007 @ 12:26pm |
I do pay my way, more than you think..
"You are a parasitic hypocrite"....I do not feed off the govt..I feed it and probsbly 2 othe familuys in the process...
no, no, my friend...you can't afford to have guys like me quit working or selling to China or where ever....if people like me quit or are driven out by the likes of the MTs of the world, you will then have nothing to redistribute.... you could end up with something resembling East Germany...fully employed unionised work force run by "people"..free medical, free everything...you could then "elect" an MT..he has all the answers and he is not a cowrad, but rather a peoples hero, I guess.
You drive out all the entrepenuers and corporations and you will have may be what you seem to want here..fairness for all.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:35pm
I thought it was your buddy NIXON who was in charge when that affair folded?
Posted by DR DECIBELS 04/03/2007 @ 12:33pm
Uh, Doc...you're treading into some DANGEROUS ground there.
If Nixon is to blame for the loss in Vietnam.....and we don't have any pull-out of Iraq until 2009 and Hillary/Barack/John are President....then by extension THEY get the blame for that!
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 12:36pm
It's funny how two bit "businessmen" think that simply because they can make a few dollars that means they're "intelligent" and they can do anything. A fucking chimpanzee with a tin cup and some pencils can make money; any woman (or good looking young lad) without even the ability to read, write that is willing to spread her (his) legs for a price can make money real fast.
Your simplistic, one sided posts, you old lying coward, reflect a severely limited intellect. In addition, you are a liar. Call me what you want, but unobjective, dishonest, cowardly does not apply to mtspence05. Everything you own in the world can be taken away; the only thing you really have is what's inside you. You're hollow, adorned with bs.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:37pm
Uh, Doc...you're treading into some DANGEROUS ground there.
Well, Mask, like my father always says, Live dangerously, Die young, and have a closed coffin funeral.
But then, my Dad is a genuine war hero from VN. 5 Bronze Stars, 3 Air Medals, and numerous commendations. All earned while MAAASCH sat on his ass stateside grubbing for bucks like a good little draft dodging Repug.
Besides, I'm just throwing a little crap back at our resident fuckwad, Mr Knowitall Himself, MAAAASCH the Moran.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 12:40pm
And the DR Decibls will not have a pool for me to piss in..
but make no mistake..
I do piss on your philosophy as you present it..and would glady deficate on the MTs of the world..
I have to go to work now and earn some $ for the govt....what is it now...one works from Jan until June just for the govt? (I won't work for Pelosi, Reid or Hillary in that manner)but you can be my guest to do so...and sing solidarity for ever..
enjoy....
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:41pm
"I thought it was your buddy NIXON who was in charge when that affair folded?
Posted by DR DECIBELS 04/03/2007 @ 12:33pm
Indeed he was.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:42pm
nd we don't have any pull-out of Iraq until 2009 and Hillary/Barack/John are President....then by extension THEY get the blame for that!
Well, you have just reiterated Herr Shrubenfuhrers plan for Peace - Dump It on the Next Guy.
Not much of a plan, but he's not much of a pRez either.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 12:42pm
You're going to do some work? More like those Third World labores are going to do some work. All you're gonna do is ride on their backs, suck a little profit out of them, much like a leech.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:44pm
Maasch-You spend so much time on here that I wonder if you really have a job.Before I retired I never had the time to do things like be on here.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 12:44pm
Hell, he's probably lying about that, too. Just like Mr. Lebowski.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:46pm
"It's funny how two bit "businessmen" think that simply because they can make a few dollars that means they're "intelligent" and they can do anything. "
I know complete idiots who earn millions each year...earning dollars and intelligence are not necessarily related...but managing them are..
"Your simplistic, one sided posts, you old lying coward, reflect a severely limited intellect."
...I would advise you to read your own post.
"Call me what you want, but unobjective, dishonest, cowardly does not apply to mtspence05. "
I disagree...I think you are a fraud and angry...useless.
"Everything you own in the world can be taken away; the only thing you really have is what's inside you."
this is copmplete truth..the only real thing you have said..
I HAVE lost everything I have had,twicw, including a life in my family...and have had to fight back for everything...I have lived on beans and rice..I prefer my meals of today...you can take everything away from me and in time I will work and get it back...
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:49pm
I thought you had some "work" to do, old man.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:51pm
Dr,
Your father was a hero as was mine...I am no herop and no, I didn't make any money during Viet Nam..
I was 18...figure it out yet MT?
AND, Nixon lost Viet Nam...he was in charge at the time...and mis managed it. He is also reposnsible for passing all Great Society programs LBJ couldn't get through congress,Revenue sharing, and if he hadn't resigned, we would have had zero based budgets and national health care...just to name a few.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:53pm
'do pay my way, more than you think..'
Thought you were telling me you took home "no income" but had the ability to pay your employees well from the coroporate account. Not paying yourself a salary John and living off the corporate expense account doesn't sound like you are paying your way. Sounds like you are avoiding taxes. Come on John...pay up....you want this war so bad....you need to pay for it.
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 12:54pm
18? 17, 20--now 18? You're a liar, that much I've figured out.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 12:55pm
"Maasch-You spend so much time on here that I wonder if you really have a job.Before I retired I never had the time to do things like be on here.
Posted by I'M NOBODY 04/03/2007 @ 12:44pm
I do indeed work and I am sorry, but my job affords me an abundance of typing time...I also took huge losses in the last 6 months...things wax and wane..But I am hopeful on the next 6 months...I have a great job..and I love working and the travel.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:56pm
well politicians do ever politcize...but with this administration's demonstrated penchant for such, this rings...typically (i was going to say especially, but no, "typically" is much more accurate) hypocritical for these guys...
"oh, the bushies are accusing others of their own shortcomings, in order to cover u their own shortcomings...wow...never would have expected that from these guys..never."
so when the dems start trying to fix all the neocon fuck ups, and do bso using the political process outlined in the constitution...they are politicizing...
"no i didn't! you did!"
nice...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/03/2007 @ 12:56pm
MT,
You have nothing figured.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 12:57pm
Maasch-Wish I could have had the nice easy job you have,but I had to earn my money.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 1:00pm
Oh yeah? Then why are you expending so much time and effort in an extremely poor attempt to refute what I've posted? It's because I'm right on the money and you know it. Otherwise it would be nothing more than water off a duck's back. From what I've read on this thread everyone else knows it too.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:00pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 12:41pm
Thanks for the sentiment - fuck you too.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:02pm
ONE,
I take home income as everyone else..and I have partnerships of a few other entities that are treated differently by IRS rules..but I do pay my share and probably MTs too.
I want to start a retail store with partners by summer..now I would not be any good at running a store, but my partners are...the point is knowing where one is competent and where one is not ...knowing ones owm limitations..is the point...most politicians are competenet at winning elections(BUSH) and not at governing(BUSH,both of them)....the next batch...who knows..
I know most of my limitations..and the when I don't I have lost huge...and not just dollars. I am still learning and might even go broke in 3 years..or not...so what? It is the game that is the fun part.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:04pm
I was 18...figure it out yet MT? - maasch
Yeah, Maasch, it means you dodged the draft.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:04pm
Posted by DR DECIBELS 04/03/2007 @ 12:42pm |
Actually it's a pretty GOOD plan, for an evil plan, DocD.
If Bush can "run out the clock" and have no or only the Surged troops pulled out by January 20, 2009....and Hillary wins...then the Historical Revisionism which the DEMOCRATS have embraced (i.e. Johnson may have been wrong, but it was Nixon who lost the war) can be embraced by the Republicans...if not more so.
Here's the way I see Late Spring/Early Summer 2009.....Hillary has completed the pull-out (or pull-back to Kurdistan and Kuwait). The Iraqi Civil War, which Bush was merely holding his finger in the dike, hits full-force. Iran backs the Shiites, Saudis and Jordan back the Sunnis. Takes a year to settle down...probably into the Biden Three State Solution.
Meanwhile...Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, O'Reilly, Savage and the Gang have been saying the same thing, in nearly the same inflection for weeks...and months and YEARS to come...
"Hillary and the Dems lost Iraq".
Lie, damnable lie, biggest pile of bulls*** in the Universe?
Yep.
but it'll work...atleast some, maybe enough to get some seats back in 2010 and MAYBE enough to get the WH back in 2012.
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 1:04pm
"Maasch-Wish I could have had the nice easy job you have,but I had to earn my money.
Posted by I'M NOBODY 04/03/2007 @ 1:00pm
So do I ..I think you missed the point..nice and easy would not describe my job.
gotta go..
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:05pm
Your father was a hero as was mine...I am no herop and no, I didn't make any money during Viet Nam..
What proof do you offer the YOUR father was a hero?
What awards? What acts of heroism was he recognized for?
Don't you ever lump your father into the same group as mine.
Fuck you and yes, I too piss on you and all that you stand for, coward.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:06pm
"Then why are you expending so much time and effort in an extremely poor attempt to refute what I've posted?"
Why should I? I don't care what you think or post..meaningless to me. Wrong is wrong...there is nothing I can say to you that will change anything you already have decided...and I don't care to.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:07pm
It's because I'm right on the money and you know it. Otherwise it would be nothing more than water off a duck's back. From what I've read on this thread everyone else knows it too.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 1:00pm
Then why don't YOU just drop it and have the satisfaction of knowing you are right and stop worrying about MAASCH trying to refute you?
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 1:07pm
I know most of my limitations..
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
Is that why you avoided service?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:08pm
Right. I thought you were going to "work"? Oh yeah, I pay my own taxes, thank you--just like I served in the military while you pussed out, allowed other men to do your part.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:08pm
Or was it simple cowardice?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:09pm
In case you didn;t catch it the first time johnny:
Your father was a hero as was mine...I am no herop and no, I didn't make any money during Viet Nam..
What proof do you offer the YOUR father was a hero?
What awards? What acts of heroism was he recognized for?
Don't you ever lump your father into the same group as mine.
Fuck you and yes, I too piss on you and all that you stand for, coward.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:09pm
Posted by MASK
Why don't YOU mind you own business? The old, lying coward is a "big man"; he can speak for himself.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:10pm
Thanks for the sentiment - fuck you too.
Posted by DR DECIBELS 04/03/2007 @ 1:02pm
Do not mis understand..it is not personal..just the philosophy. I do not know you and for all anyone knows you area saint..I just hate your poiltical philosophy and think it is dangerous to American and our freedoms, as you hate mine, but I sense you also hate the person....this is where I differ from many here..ask JOHANNES...I do not hate or want to , ah, fuck you, too, syndrome...
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:10pm
Let me see. We initiate a witch hunt and impeach Clinton over a b--- j-- and this ignorant, arrogant moron is still around.
Posted by Hernova at 04/03/2007 @ 1:11pm
Do not mis understand..it is not personal..just the philosophy. I do not know you and for all anyone knows you area saint..I just hate your poiltical philosophy and think it is dangerous to American and our freedoms, as you hate mine, but I sense you also hate the person....this is where I differ from many here..ask JOHANNES...I do not hate or want to , ah, fuck you, too, syndrome...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 1:10pm
Bullshit - then why do you pop off with that garbage knowing NOTHING of me?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:12pm
n case you didn;t catch it the first time johnny:
Your father was a hero as was mine...I am no herop and no, I didn't make any money during Viet Nam..
What proof do you offer the YOUR father was a hero?
What awards? What acts of heroism was he recognized for?
Don't you ever lump your father into the same group as mine.
Fuck you and yes, I too piss on you and all that you stand for, coward.
Still waiting for an answer on that one bub.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:12pm
Posted by MASK 04/03/2007 @ 1:07pm
Exactly...notice an emotional tempersture rise here?
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:13pm
You haven't left for "work" yet? Bye, bye, old lying coward. Why don't you take your bitch, Mask, with you?
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:14pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH
Still waiting.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:15pm
Let's hear the stirring tales of your fathers bravery under fire while you did...... what?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:16pm
Maasch-I've noticed that you don't earn your money like so many of us have had to do.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 1:16pm
The old, mendacious coward's father must be very proud of him.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:17pm
"Don't you ever lump your father into the same group as mine. "
Ok..no problem..
My father was a hero of mine he was initaially a pilot and then went to b school. I have his flight logs...he was a bombadier over Germany in WW2 and fought in Korea.
I had draft number 311 in college and did not enlist, by the time colleg graduation the VN war ended.. My son served in the US Navy for 3 years and is now out. My 16 year old is interested in the military after college or during. My 14 year old daughter is not interested at this time. End of story..
Gotta board a flight.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 1:17pm
I had draft number 311 in college and did not enlist, by the time colleg graduation the VN war ended.
So fuck you - why didn't you volunteer then tough guy?
Other priorities?
Gotta run, no time to defend my cowardice?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:19pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY
That's because he's so much 'smarter' than us. Just like when he dodged the war with a deferment while the rest of the schmucks went to SE Asia.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:19pm
And he seems to think we should have drug that affair out MUCH longer - maybe to give him time to join?
Fuck him and all like him.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 1:20pm
You all need to know when to ignore Maasch. His main goal here is to ruffle a few feathers by reciting bullshit hysteria about liberals everyone has heard a million times from so-called conservative dimwits who don't know any better.
Poke your jab if you must and move on. It's not worth the frustration.
Just wait for him to make another failed prediction and have a good laugh.
Posted by Hman23 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:25pm
MTSPENCE-Maasch defines "earning money" a little differently than the rest of us.He has a drug dealers idea of "earning money".
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 1:29pm
...I also took huge losses in the last 6 months...things wax and wane..But I am hopeful on the next 6 months...I have a great job..and I love working and the travel.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 12:56pm | ignore this person
Huge losses means huge writeoffs John. You can also carry forward those losses into future tax years. Now....since the tax code is so favorable to your business formation, why don't you take some money from your personal account and give it to the IRS. I believe that those who support the war should pay for the war. The is fair is it not? Sort of suits you idea about how government should work doesn't it? Those who benefit are the ones who should pay?
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 1:31pm
Posted by HMAN23
Yeah, you're right. It's just that all day long we all have to put up with lying, self serving, hypocrites like the old lying coward. They're at the job, on tv, relatives--whatever--and you must bite your tongue, ignore the bs; but here you can go ahead and point out the obvious, unleash a little therapeutic vindictive.
Plus, the coward is a piece of shit, a parasite. He doesn't wanna work, he didn't wanna fight; he just wants to take. It is people like him that make life a living hell. When you're on the highway and construction is up ahead (there's a sign saying to get over left/right); he's one of the dips that just keeps on going down the closed lane, jumps to the front of the line, rather than get in que with the rest of us (which is why it gets so backed up). He's just smart enough to screw things up for the rest of us.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:33pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY
Too sorry to work, too scared to steal--you've got that right.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 1:34pm
I know most of my limitations..and the when I don't I have lost huge...and not just dollars. I am still learning and might even go broke in 3 years..or not...so what? It is the game that is the fun part.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 1:04pm | ignore this person
Yeah...and the US may go broke in three years too when overseas investors stop lending us money because of this insanely stupid occupation of Iraq. You are a gambler...great...more power to you. But don't gamble with the lives of our brave soldiers and Treasury dollars which you have no claim to.
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 1:37pm
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 1:10pm
Keep that in mind...next time YOU decide to interject into a post "conversation".
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 1:14pm
BTW, why is it that your answer to ANY debate seems to be...
"Why don't you quit arguing with me and go away?!?!?!"
hehe
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 1:41pm
Hey, I'M NOBODY....
Why don't you mind your own business and quit being MTSPENCE's little bitch?
(Oops...forgot...only goes in ONE direction for that...my bad!)
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 1:43pm
Mask-What are you talking about now?
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 1:47pm
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 1:34pm | ignore this person
MTS....here is a classic from Mr. Maasch. Two separate quotes...two different stories. Is John's middle name Alberto?
************************************************************
"Also, in my friends office, the lowest paid worker is a secretarty/bookeeper..I think she earns $ 75k...plus retirement ...the highest, besides the owner is the guy who arranges for banks and investors and I think he is at $400k...plus....if in 5 years all goes well, the lowest will have a piece in retirement at $ 1 million...
I own a small piece of this company in that I am an investor...but for me to make a big hit, the entire project has to make it over time..at present I am paid ZERO.... " ***************************************************************
"I take home income as everyone else..and I have partnerships of a few other entities that are treated differently by IRS rules..but I do pay my share and probably MTs too."
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007 @ 1:04pm | ignore this person ******************************************************************
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 1:56pm
Mask-You have a guy who claims he earns his money,yet he is on here way too much for that to be true.You have a guy who supports war,but did all he could to avoid doing his duty when his time came.You have a guy who has no idea how old he is.You have a guy who calls everyone who disagrees with him loons and kooks and then lectures people on name calling.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 1:59pm
You have a guy who supports war,but did all he could to avoid doing his duty when his time came
That's my favorite part about these peoples' "character"
- Oh, I support the war, just NOT ME IN IT.....
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 2:07pm
Dr Decibles-Bush,maasch etc set a bad example for modern young Republicans.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 2:12pm
modern young Republicans.
humpphh - more cowards. They don't even need examples like Maasch, Cheney, et al, they just want to shoot their mouths off while serving nothing but their own needs. It comes from their upbringing.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 2:25pm
JOHN MAASCH is a man with tits by his own admission -- although, wait, in MAASCH's fevered imaginings that have not changed one itoa since Reagan's first term, the tits that surge forth from his chest are the government's fault, likely DMV paper pushers who are the perps of this heinous crime, or maybe it's the local librarian. Although JOHN MAASCH will get all relativsitic about Statism if it's state-sponsored torture (he's for it) that is being discussed or large-scale invasions and occupations that gain his zealous approval. Moreover, JOHN MAASCH pontificates about having bling and being a Big Man on the Golf Course when he evidences no capacity to (for example) state his age accurately (!). If he is telling the truth even part of the time, then we also have ascertained that JOHN MAASCH sinks to his over-burdened knees to sloppily kiss the asses of trinket merchants from Red China.
And Now: Watch how quickly JOHN MAASCH alights from the "plane" that he, umm, has "to catch" in order to respond in his signature fractured syntax that would embarrass a recent immigrant as he self-immolates in response to these 200-proof truths about the sorry entity that is JOHN MAASCH.
Posted by Glenn Lemon at 04/03/2007 @ 3:08pm
SMACK!
I'll be he felt that at 10,000 feet above the fly-over states he lives in!!!
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 3:45pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 04/03/2007 @ 1:59pm
I'M...'fraid your logic isn't quite...logical.
If MAASCH earns a lot of money, he can AFFORD to be on here a lot!
As far as "supporting a war", but not going....if I'm reading MAASCH right he was 18 years old WHEN THE WAR ENDED in 1973, so he wouldn't have been up for the draft or got sent to VN if he had joined.
I disagree with him on Iraq and Bush...but he doesn't call me a loon.
Now your buddy MTSPENCE is pretty good about calling people names (Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 1:14pm) when they disagree with HIM....but since he's your pal and on the Left...of course he gets a pass!
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 3:47pm
f I'm reading MAASCH right he was 18 years old WHEN THE WAR ENDED in 1973
And I had friends who joined at 17.
He's still full of crap and searching for excuses.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 4:01pm
But I do so LOVE hearing all the rationalizations for "why I didn't serve" from all the chest thumping wingnuts.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 4:02pm
Mask-If you have that much free time then you aren't earning anything.I respect a hard days work.That is earning your money.Who cares when the war ended?I'd have gone into the military whether there was a war or not.In fact,I'd had been better off if there hadn't been one going on then I could have gone on to do what I really wanted to do with my life and I didn't even believe in the war,but still enlisted because I believe in this country and served it and have never regretted doing so.MTSPENCE,to my knowledge, doesn't lecture people for name calling like Maasch does.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 4:13pm
f I'm reading MAASCH right he was 18 years old WHEN THE WAR ENDED in 1973
And I had friends who joined at 17.
He's still full of crap and searching for excuses.
Posted by DR DECIBELS 04/03/2007 @ 4:01pm
The lying old coward claimed he is 54 at one time; that would have made him 20 in '72.
"Now your buddy MTSPENCE is pretty good about calling people names..." Posted by MASK 04/03/2007 @ 3:47pm
Yeah I am, you stupid git.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 4:14pm
Hell, WW2 one of my uncles joined at 16 - same with my Dad, exscept he joined at 15. He kept lying about his age until he was finally old enough to stay in.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 4:16pm
"Generals are supposed to enact plans decided by elected officials"
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/03/2007
Uhh, Maasch?
Maybe you ought to read that G-D piece of paper called the Constition. It stipulates civilian control of the military. That's why the President (even Chimpy) is called "Commander in Chief."
Contrary to the belief of Present Nit Chimpy, however, the actual President is Commander in Chief of the military, not the entire country.
Posted by skeletonman at 04/03/2007 @ 4:28pm
War dodging, lying cowards have no business commenting on war.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 11:44am
Well I see MTSpencer just told most of the leftists to stop commenting on the war.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/03/2007 @ 4:31pm
Nobody's talking to you, libertyliar.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 4:35pm
I had the old lying coward, Georgie Jr, and Cheney in mind when I wrote that. Your Vietnam War dodging Prez and Vice started this senseless mess, libertyliar. And to add injury to insult, they are without the decency to take appropriate care of the brave men and women their actions maimed and dismembered.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 4:38pm
LvLiberty-There are many more left wing veterans than you, obviously, know about.You really need to get out more.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/03/2007 @ 4:41pm
Inbred, hick fundamentalist have severely limited cognitive abilities. It's a congental thing; they can't help it. Isn't that right, libertyliar?
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/03/2007 @ 4:43pm
Just another Howling Monkey chest thumping war monger.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 5:04pm
And as long as we still have Freedom of Speech, I'll comment on any godammed thing I want, your input notwithstanding mr libertywhatever.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 5:05pm
Nobody's talking to you, libertyliar.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 4:35pm
Inbred, hick fundamentalist have severely limited cognitive abilities. It's a congental thing; they can't help it. Isn't that right, libertyliar?
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/03/2007 @ 4:43pm
Listen you pathetic little excuse for a human being, why don't I give you an address to come out to and display your bravado, you traitorous wimp. Let's see how you do with a disabled old man who could still probably paste your cowardly traitorous pussy around.
I can't stand assholes like you who make human beings look bad. Your the kind of scum that deserves to be made into pond food just to provide something positive to the planet.
Now excuse me while I go ask God to forgive my anger for even considering a lowlife like you to be human.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/03/2007 @ 5:32pm
To everyone else, sorry for the outburst and the language. Sometimes you reach a point with those who lack any humanity and civility where you have to call it like it is. Even Jesus called the Pharisees outrageous names on a couple of occasions when they also acted like inhuman jerks.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/03/2007 @ 5:34pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/03/2007 @ 5:34pm
Turn the other cheek, dude.
Posted by skeletonman at 04/03/2007 @ 6:15pm
Even Jesus called the Pharisees outrageous names on a couple of occasions when they also acted like inhuman jerks.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/03/2007 @ 5:34pm
Funny, I've never heard my pastor speak anything like that. And he is a passionate man, too.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 04/03/2007 @ 10:47pm
Listen you pathetic little excuse for a human being, why don't I give you an address to come out to and display your bravado, you traitorous wimp. Let's see how you do with a disabled old man who could still probably paste your cowardly traitorous pussy around.
I can't stand assholes like you who make human beings look bad. Your the kind of scum that deserves to be made into pond food just to provide something positive to the planet.
Now excuse me while I go ask God to forgive my anger for even considering a lowlife like you to be human.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1
And libertyliar rolls over, exposes his true colors. A true authoritarian he is. All the repressive systems require fools like libertyliar. They are tools, unthinking creatures, nothing more than programmed robots, incapable of critical thought.
You should ask your god for some objectivity.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/04/2007 @ 09:34am
Sometimes you reach a point with those who lack any humanity and civility where you have to call it like it is. Posted by LVLIBERTY1
And why do you think I speak to the knaves like you and that old coward the way I do? It's one thing to have an opinion and support it with an honest argument, it's another thing to distort, fabricate. You're a human being, you're blessed with the ability to "think"! If you choose to not make use of that ability, then you are nothing more than a dumb animal. I have nothing but contempt for such people.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/04/2007 @ 09:40am
Posted by MTSPENCE05 04/04/2007 @ 09:40am
Yeah, takes a helluva lot of "thinking" to resort to name-calling and not showing you're BETTER than the "dumb animals".
Posted by Mask at 04/05/2007 @ 09:12am
Yeah, takes a helluva lot of "thinking" to resort to name-calling and not showing you're BETTER than the "dumb animals".
Posted by MASK
A spade is a spade (or in your case, a bitch is a bitch), and there's nothing wrong with stating a fact. As far as "thinking" goes, my posts demonstrate that. You and the rest of the dissemblers want respect? Fine. Have a little integrity and post with some honesty.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/05/2007 @ 10:40am