Endgame in Iraq

The facts are so stark, even American military commanders are now speaking openly about an approaching climax for our bloody misadventure in Iraq. "To Stand or Fall in Baghdad," the New York Times headline declared this morning. A show-down is here, the generals acknowledge. There are no more back-up strategies.

Learned policy experts from all sides are now debating the various alternatives for an exit plan. Preferably with honor, they hope, but getting out is becoming unavoidable, regardless. They would like to dream up a some sort of fig leaf that gives cover to our failed warrior president. Not that he deserves one, but they want a plan will encourage Bush--finally--to accept reality.

Who is being left out of this momentous discussion? The Iraqi people, whom we were allegedly teaching how to become small-d democrats. Bush relentlessly touted "democracy" as his true goal. He cited the three Iraqi elections as proof that he was succeeding.

So let's have one more election in Iraq--a referendum where the Iraqi people get to decide whether America's armed forces withdraw and when.

This ingenious proposal comes from Harold Davis, an attorney in Douglas, Mass., whose letter to the editor appeared in Saturday's Boston Globe and spelled out the logic. "Let's put our Iraq withdrawal to a vote--an Iraqi vote," Davis declared.

His proposition is sincere, but also cleverly hoists Bush on his own bloated rhetoric. "If the principles hold true," Davis says, " shouldn't the Iraqi people hold the fate of their country in their hands?" His letter provided sample wording for the ballot initiative.

Voters in Iraq would be asked to choose one of the following options:

1. I ask that all coalition forces be withdrawn within six months of the date of this referendum.

2. I ask that all coalition forces be withdrawn within one year of the date of this referendum.

3. I ask that the government of Iraq determine some time in the future when all coalition forces should be withdrawn."

That sounds reasonable enough, but recent polls suggest Iraqis (if they could get to the polls without being killed) would vote for immediate US withdrawal.

Will the dwindling ranks of war enthusiasts in Washington rally around Harold Davis's call for Iraqi self-determination? Or does the White House fear that a free election on war and peace would be pushing this democracy talk a bit too far?

Comments (39)

1. Really, Mr Greider...there's no need.

   The "Baker Plan" will be unveiled at Thanksgiving. Repub or Dem Congress, it will be pushed as the "alternative to 'cut & run' or 'finish the mission'" (Dems want it, Repubs want it for 2008).

   Bush wants it...though he can't say so before the election.

   And by Christmas, it'll be put into effect. "Murtha", "Murtha-lite" or whatever, the withdrawal will begin, maybe as soon as January 1st...certainly no later than early spring.

   Posted by Mask at 10/23/2006 @ 3:56pm

2. I guess Bush's "resolve" isn't so strong after all. After all those speaches about "staying the course" and not being "cut & runners" Bush is finally ready to "cut & run". Thank goodness for the elections next month, otherwise the WH would not have changed its tune and we'd still be hearing the same old from those turkeys.

   But we wouldn't give the Iraqis the right to vote us out. Can anyone name an occupation in the history of occupations wherein the occupier allowed the occupied to vote for their continued presence?

   Posted by BlueTexan at 10/23/2006 @ 4:32pm

3. Today was the official end of the use of the phrase "stay the course" by the Bush administration. I can't remember the wording exactly, but it was something about how that doesn't reflect the dynamism of the situation.

   Ever the politician, Mr. Decisive has finally seen that his firmness was about to destroy thirty years of the Republican climb to power.

   It's too late the change his tune, of course. All it does is prove that for Republican party, national security is just another way to get elected. If you might lose, hey, it's time to cut and run.

   Posted by MyParadigm at 10/23/2006 @ 4:34pm

4. Tex, we must be cousins or something.

   Posted by MyParadigm at 10/23/2006 @ 4:35pm

5. Spoooooky. :)

   Posted by BlueTexan at 10/23/2006 @ 4:42pm

6. Skilling got hammered for 24 years for his role in Enron. Its funny...in the corporate world you can face serious jail time for de-frauding the public. But Bush is virtually assured never to see jail time, impeachment, censure, or anything related to his fraud of the American and Iraqi people.

   Skilling and Bush and Cheney should all be made to share the same prison block. Each paired with the roughest criminal convict thugs that can be found.

   Posted by BlueTexan at 10/23/2006 @ 4:48pm

7. This quote off the AP wire seems particualrly appropriate here...

   Bush has been quoted by journalist Bob Woodward as saying, "I'll stay in Iraq even if the only support I have left is from my wife and my dog."

   Seems like he's almost there.....

   Posted by leftofcenter at 10/23/2006 @ 4:52pm

8. This has to be a first. Mr. Greider and National Review's Jonah Goldberg advocate the same policy. Both support an Iraqi referendum:

   "Iraq Was a Worthy Mistake", 20 October 2006

   Posted by jsw at 10/23/2006 @ 5:13pm

9. The only real problem with the idea of a referendum in Iraq on this issue is that by the time it's set up, we could (and probably will, given the way the mid-terms are going) be withdrawing already. Given the amount of time it took to set up the previous elections (see the State Department's Iraq Election Timeline [usinfo.state.gov] for an outline of both the decision and the actual set-up), we're looking at three months or so to even get the thing done, and that's after everyone has signed off on the idea. I'd say that in practical terms the referendum is an idea that's dead before it even hits the ground.

   I'm not so sure the Baker Commission ideas are going to be accepted, given what's been leaked, Mask. What we've seen up until now looks a lot more like "stay-the-course" by another name and a very long term draw-down rather than a withdrawal (admittedly, details are still scarce.) It will be more a Murtha-style plan from Congress, whatever the details of the timetable they work out, because I doubt the Democrats will capitulate once they have the chance to implement it. As I've said before, they're committed (by and large) to relatively rapid withdrawal (in a way that Baker looks to be avoiding) and know their electoral chances in 2008 depend on delivering. I expect we'll see most, if not all, forces out by the end of 2007.

   I must admit though, I do like the "hoist on their own petard" aspect of calling on BushCo to let the Iraqis decide by democratic means the length of stay of U.S. forces. The only problem with my feelings on that is that I can't stand the thought of asking one more American soldier to die just to make BushCo look bad, and that would really be all that would be gained.

   Posted by Stwriley at 10/23/2006 @ 6:02pm

10. Blue Texan, it's funny...in the corporate world Dem's applaud serious jail terms for corporate fraud ( no one was raped, killed or injured during the commission of these corporate crimes, although I agree with the harsh sentence for this lowlife, Skilling )yet they defend terrorists, pedophiles, murderers, thieves etc. The Dem's focus all their efforts on defending terrorists and their supposed rights, they want FELONS to have the right to vote ( because law-abiding, sane people won't vote for them ), murderer's like Tookie Wilson become role models for children according to Dem's ( but hey, he's black and he only shotgunned a family of 4 to death and laughed about it , among other crimes, yet, Skilling stole a lot of money and he's white and that's much worse ). Skilling may not rape your child ( but if he did the ACLU, NAMBLA and many Dem's would defend him ) but protecting your pocketbook is far more important than protecting your children. You see, the deep thinker's on the left have their priorites straight: the worst crime one can commit is theft ( but only corporate theft), and crimes like blowing innocent people up, beheading innocent civilians, and almost all other forms of murder, and raping innocent children are just common crimes that need to be prosecuted with sympathy and understanding for the perpetrator. After all, the victims are dead and buried, and no amount of punishment for the perpetrator will bring them back, it's the liberal way!

    By the way, I'd agree, you guy's are probably cousins....on both side of the family. Inbreeding? Maybe this is the cause of the mental disorder known as liberalism!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 6:24pm

11. Oh, I almost forgot....ILLEGAL immigrants who violate our laws should be rewarded with citizenship, free health care ( they already have it ), a free eductaion, tax refunds, and should never be required to assimilate to American culture ( it's racist to ask that of them but not to ask it of Italian, Irish, Indian etc. immigrants ), it's the liberal way!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 6:35pm

12. one man's or woman's OPINION, that's all!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 7:16pm

13. I still don't understand the argument that voting=democracy. Just as before, it's a necessary step for democracy, but there are other conditions that have to be met before this will actually create democracy. This should be obvious, since voting in a dictator could not be reasonably understood to be democratic. Similarly, if withdrawing US troops immediately would destroy any chance of Iraqi democracy, then it isn't a democratic move. This isn't to say that that's true, but rather that the referendum argument is contingent on the virtual impossibility of democracy if we stay around for any length of time.

    Posted by Thrawn at 10/23/2006 @ 7:21pm

14. Posted by BARRY25 10/23/2006 @ 6:24pm

    Are you arguing that those who have served their debt to society should not be allowed a voice to participate?

    As to the comparison of "theft" (if you can call multi-million dollar scandals that empty the savings and retirement of hundreds) versus violent crime - there is a fair weighting given the scale of grievances involved. This is not to say that any killing or whatever is less important than "Skilling or Lay" - but plain simple fact is that the latter affects more people. If you were to weight this as per the risk assessment formula used by actuaries (or cost-benefit analyses) then the greater harm to society is by the "theft"

    As to the rest of your rant...well, as usual it is just that. Pedantic shouts lacking substance and having the pretense of form....

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/23/2006 @ 7:39pm

15. LOC, you continue to make my point that " liberalism is a mental disorder ", in that, you state that theft ( even in the millions/billions ) is worse than murder. Sicko!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 8:39pm

16. Call it a rant ( be it FACTUAL ), but you cannot deny ( factually ) that Dem's defend murderers, pedophiles, terrorists, ILLEGAL immigrants, dictators, pornographers, bribe taking politicians ( as long as they are Dem's, see: William Jefferson ) and the rest of the scum in this world ( except white corporate criminals )! Now, if any of you lunatics wants to deny my RANT, I will clown you with FACTS to back up the entire rant! And the Dem's wonder why people don't vote for them!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 8:50pm

17. Oh, I forgot to include womanizing, adulterous, tax-dodging, hooker-chasing crackheads! And that's just Marion Barry...and you hypocritical morons re-elected him! My goodness, you fools are insane!

    Posted by barry25 at 10/23/2006 @ 8:55pm

18. BARRYIQ12, you are just so cute when ranting! Are you wearing boxers? Take 'em off, get comfy...

    some fine examples of republican honor. Hope your hours pick up at the Burger Hut.

    George Roche III, carried on a 19 year affair with his son's wife, while serving as president of Hillsdale College in Michigan, which "emphasizes the importance of the common moral truths that bind all Americans, while recognizing the importance of religion for the maintenance of a free society."

    Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife. Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a prostitute and attempted to flee the scene.

    Randall Terry, Right to Life activist, founder of Operation Rescue, involved in the Terri Schiavo protests. Once imprisoned for sending former President Bill Clinton an aborted fetus. His son Jamiel is gay; his daughter Tila had sex outside of marriage, became pregnant, had a miscarriage - she is no longer welcome in his home; his daughter Ebony had 2 children outside of wedlock and became Muslim. He has campaigned against infidelity and birth control, gays and unwed mothers. Terry himself was censured by his church after committing adultery. (also, Eric Rudolph, American Terrorist, is a follower of Mr. Terry-crab)

    Adelphia Communications Corp.: Donated large sums of money to some of the most conservative members of Congress. They are also the first cable company to offer hard-core adult movies to subscribers

    Jim Bakker, televangelist with Pat Robertson at Robertson's Christian Broadcasting network. Committed adultery with Jessica Hahn [1] and then used charitable donations to pay her hush mone

    Merrill Robert Barter, Republican County Commissioner, pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy

    Parker J. Bena, Republican activist and Bush Elector from Virginia, pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography (including children as young as 3 years old) on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 10:13pm

19. Robert Bauman, Republican congressman and anti-gay activist from Maryland, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar. Source: Washington Blade

    Ted Bundy campaigned for the Republican Party. Infamous serial rapist who murdered 16 women. Source: BBC (never knew 'ol Teddy was a GOP man!-crab)

    John Allen Burt, Republican anti-abortion activist from Pensacola, Florida, convicted of sexually molesting a 15 year old girl at the home for troubled girls that he ran. Source: Pensacola News Journal

    not even through the "b's" yet.

    Clown.

    A clown with tiny hamster feet. cute l'il fella you are BARRY.

    Do I make you horny?

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 10:20pm

20. Neil Bush, brother or G. W. Bush, in a March 2003 divorce deposition, admitted repeatedly having sex with strange women who just showed up at his room while on an Asian business trip. The SNL scandal he was a part of cost every taxpayer about $3,000 if memory serves. Currently making money off the All Chldren Left Behind federal grant program. Not to be confused with the Left Behind series, which will leave you with us heathen scum, BAR, you cutiepie.

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 10:24pm

21. oh, chimpy is ready to Cut and Run to his Legacy.

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 10:26pm

22. Posted by CRABWALK 10/23/2006 @ 10:13pm Posted by CRABWALK 10/23/2006 @ 10:20pm

    bwaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha....

    bwaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    hehehehehehahahahahehehahahehehahahahaha!!!

    Posted by liveeasy at 10/23/2006 @ 10:31pm

23. Posted by BARRY25 10/23/2006 @ 8:39pm

    As expected you take my words out of context to bend them into something they aren't. Typical I suppose. Let's put you to the test as long as you want a moral pissing contest.

    Choose the more grievous crime:

    Killing someone you don't know or stealing the life savings of 1,000 grandmothers out of sheer greed?

    The EPA holds the value of a life at $4.8 million, while actuarial studies vary much more and the US Dept of Transporation puts it at $3 million. (according to humanforsale.com I'm worth $1.8 million...)

    Now you, I dunno, but I'll see what kinda change I got under my couch cushions...

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/23/2006 @ 11:50pm

24. Looking ahead to the inevitable political scapegoating by American reactionaries frustrated once again by another of their imperial/colonial debacles coming home to feast on their political corpses, I offer -- with apologies to Bob Dylan (who wrote "Who killed Davey Moore?"):

    "Who Lost Iraq?"

    Who Lost Iraq? / Where did it go, and how to get it back?

    "It wasn't me," said the President, / With his hard head stuck in its hard cement. / "I just start fires in the minds of men; / Pour gas on the flames every now and then. / I accomplished my mission when I robbed the store, / Then to cover up the crime I went and started a war. / In a few more years someone else will want the fun; / I'll give the mess to them; then I'll say that I won! / They'll lose Iraq: / Who couldn't see me handing them the sack."

    Who lost Iraq? / Where did it go and how to get it back?

    "It wasn't us," cried the military brass. / "We just saluted Rumsfeld and kissed his senile ass. / We long ago swore not to think too hard or much; / Just do as we're told and to use that as a crutch. / So when the hopes go wrong and the shit hits the fan / We can always just say: ‘We took our orders from the man.' / With our medals and our pensions and our private jumbo jets / It's the only war we've got and that's as good as it gets. / They lost Iraq: / The suits who tied our hands behind our back."

    Who lost Iraq? / Where did it go and how to get it back?

    "It wasn't me," said the Secretary / Talking too dense and sounding real scary. / "We know we don't know what we don't know we know / But we do know how to stage a little dog-and-pony show. / The Senators and Congressmen whose districts get the pork / Think the meat's well done, so they stick in a fork. / The army's not the one we want, but let me tell you what: / We have to go to war with it or see our funding cut. / They lost Iraq: / Who wouldn't cut me some semantic slack."

    Who lost Iraq? / Where did it go and how to get it back?

    "Who the hell cares," shrugs the televangelist / Preaching at his pulpit and pounding with his fist. / "I tell folks: ‘vote Republican if you don't want to die' / (Watching cable television; lapping up the lie). / I feed the rubes on fantasies of Armageddon day, / When Jesus in his spaceship comes to take them all away. / I scare ‘em and they love it and they come back for more / To vote for someone else's kid to fight in their war. / They lost Iraq: / Who wouldn't stop me selling Crusade crack."

    Who lost Iraq? / Where did it go and how to get it back?

    "We had to hit someone," said the jaded journalist / Thumbing through his Rolodex and making up a list / Of contacts in the government who leak the names of spies / Whose husbands tell the truth sometimes, instead of packaged lies. / "My name is Tom Friedman and the world is flat; / That shit about a globe you heard just isn't where it's at. / I cheered for Dubya's war just like the chicken hawk I am / And then when things went south I blamed a Lebanese imam. / They lost Iraq: / Who wouldn't buy my books from off the rack."

    Who lost Iraq? / Where did it go and how to get it back?

    "Who said you ever owned us?" cried the people of Iraq. / "Who asked you for your bloody war and unprovoked attack? / You seemed to think that killing us and wrecking all we had / Could win elections for George Bush and make him look less bad. / Our oil we'll sell to whom we please, why don't you find your own? / And get yourselves a president at least a little grown. / In case you haven't noticed, he's the one that you should fear / Whose words smell like the noisome gas escaping from his rear. / Please leave Iraq. / Then see if you can win your own souls back."

    Michael Murry, "The Misfortune Teller," Copyright 2006

    Posted by Michael Murry at 10/24/2006 @ 04:26am

25. good stuff, michael. once again, the left proves to be smarter/funnier/better informed.

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/24/2006 @ 08:26am

26. You guys are soo sweet, I thought I would post some more

    heres a well known figure:Bill O'Reilly Right-wing conservative talk show host on Fox News, sued for sexual harrassment by his producer. The suit included graphic details, including tape-recordings. O'Reilly's wife was pregnant at the time. O'Reilly settled and paid millions of dollars rather than have the details become public.

    Brent Parker Utah State Representative. Arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover officer posing as a male prostitute. KSL News Article |Deseret News Article

    Joe Scarborough, former Republican Congressman from Pensacola, Florida, currently a conservative talk show host. Resigned his congressional seat abruptly to spend more time with his family, amidst allegations of an affair. His intern, Lori Klausutis, was soon after found dead in his office. The medical examiner, who had his license revoked in Missouri for falsifying information in an autopsy report, and suspended in Florida for six years, ruled the case an accident, after giving conflicting information about her injuries. He said he lied about them because "The last thing we wanted was 40 questions about a head injury."

    Larry Jack Schwarz, Republican parole board officer and former Colorado State Representative, fired after child pornography was found in his possession. Rocky Mountain News article With his political career over, he went to work in the hard-core pornography industry for Platinum X Pictures, owned by his daughter, porn starlet Jewel De'Nyle (Stephany Schwarz). Wikipedia article

    John Scmitz, right-wing republican congressman, who had had his committee chairship taken away from him in the California State Senate after issuing a press release attacking Jews, feminists and gays. Forced out of office in 1982 for having an adulterous affair and fathering two children out of wedlock with one of his students. He was caught because his baby was admitted to hospital for having hair tied so tightly around his penis that it was almost severed. His daughter, Mary Kay LeTourneau, was convicted of having an adulterous affair with one of her students, and giving birth to two of his children. Wikipedia article

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/24/2006 @ 08:42am

27. ahh, the neo-con crack-up is a beeyutiful sight to behold!!

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/24/2006 @ 08:43am

28. And nobody seems concerned about the $800,000,000 missing in the latest Iraq money scandal. Too bad there are no Welfare queens over there, then we would get to the bottom of this mess!!

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/24/2006 @ 08:47am

29. Crab,

    The welfare recipients in Iraq are called Haliburton & Northrup Grummond. Their not indigent black mothers so Republican's are fine with them being on the dole.

    Posted by freedomplease at 10/24/2006 @ 10:26am

30. Similarly, if withdrawing US troops immediately would destroy any chance of Iraqi democracy, then it isn't a democratic move. This isn't to say that that's true, but rather that the referendum argument is contingent on the virtual impossibility of democracy if we stay around for any length of time.

    No, the referendum argument is contingent on ascertaining the will of the Iraqi people on this. No one has said that voting=democracy but you don't seem to have come up with a better way to determine if the Iraqi people want us there. Should the Iraqi people vote to for #1, withdrawal in six months, is your argument that we should stay against the will of the majority of the Iraqi people until they have a democracy? If voting in a dictator isn't democratic then neither is imposing democracy as gunpoint.

    Posted by brunowe at 10/24/2006 @ 12:14pm

31. I think it is the height of naivete to think that Bush gives arat's ass what the Iraqi people want. they were not consulted when we invaded, have not been consulted since, and will not be consulted when we leave. to assume otherwise is folly.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 12:56pm

32. good points Bruno. the Iraqis voted while the Baathists were in power, in fact Saddam routinely polled 99% approval. the middle class in Iraq has been voting, with their feet, 300 000 have been reported fleeing the country. did Iraqis flee the Baathist regime in those numbers?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 1:24pm

33. the Iraqis voted while the Baathists were in power, in fact Saddam routinely polled 99% approval.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 10/24/2006 @ 1:24pm

    JOHANN, just so understand. You believe those elections were fair and that Saddam's 99% approval polls were honest?!?!?!?!?

    Posted by Mask at 10/24/2006 @ 1:42pm

34. Mask, did I say that? I would say that they were about as democratic as the recent elections and the installed gov't. that was my point

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 6:35pm

35. And by Christmas, it'll be put into effect. "Murtha", "Murtha-lite" or whatever, the withdrawal will begin, maybe as soon as January 1st...certainly no later than early spring.

    Posted by MASK 10/23/2006 @ 3:56pm

    Really don't think so Mask. Let's talk a little geopolitics here.

    1) House of Saud: 15 million loose cannon Shiites running loose of Saud's northern border. You are aware of Saudi repression of Shia adherents are you not? Simple equation here: House of Saud will use oil coercion to keep permanent US military presence at or near their border.

    2) Syria: the Al-Assad clan are neither Sunni or Shia. They don't like either but prefer Sunnis. Same scenario as House of Saud. They won't sit still seeing very pissed off Iraqis crossing its border.

    3) Kuwait: nothing needs to be said. They hate everybody who is not Kuwaiti.

    4) Iran: they are obviously rubbing their hands together and anxiously counting the days. If they play this right, they can easily increase their proven reserves by another 80-100 billion barrels simply by annexing the southern Shia provinces. Don't dismiss Iran. They are playing right along and enjoying the Bush administation's folly.

    5)Jordan: useless and powerless. They will continue to kiss yankee ass. But....there will be a day when the influx of Iraqi refugees overwhelms their resources and all hell breaks loose. Count on it.

    6) The Kurds: difficult to envision. Too many constraints from Syria, Turkey and Iran. They have visions of grandeur in their sphere and will raise some shit with everybody in the demographic area. All because of.........?

    7) Oh boy: Israel.....what can I say. I will leave this one to you.

    8)The US of A: a $1 billion earmark (not approved by Congress) to build the bullwark showpiece of American power...the Embassy. Several billion more in building the so called "enduring camps" complete with your favorite mini golf followed by cheap tacos and Budweiser. These are not going away. Halliburton, Boots and Lickers, Parsons, Bechteland all the rest need the business. Oh, let's not forget the 10,000 ft airstrips complete with top line geo tech gadgets. Not cheap. Think they are going to leave all this behind to the super friendly Iraqi air force...with their fleet of gas powered model bi-planes?

    Please. Mask, extend your horizon a little. This whole conundrum is one massive circular firing squad.

    There is not much of a way out. Ifthere is, this inept misadministration will just lasso the media and keep us mute.

    Sad!

    Posted by doumer at 10/24/2006 @ 7:57pm

36. you are mistaken, I believe. Doumer. Syria is ruled by Hashemites, who are Sunni.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 8:13pm

37. JRO

    Actually it's Jordan that's ruled by the Hashemites. Syria is ruled by Ba'athists of the Alawite sect, which many Muslims consider heretical.

    Posted by brunowe at 10/25/2006 @ 12:50am

38. the baathists are a recent arrival, when created Syria was ruled by Hashemites. Alawites are in the minority in Syria, Sunnis are the majority.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/25/2006 @ 09:00am

39. Bruno and Doumer, you are correct. the Hashemite king was kicked out of Syria in the 20s and then made King of Iraq in compensation. thank you for the correction.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/25/2006 @ 09:06am