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RedditThe Holy Land got just what it needed this week. A visit from Pat Robertson.
The founder of the Christian Coalition arrived in Israel on Wednesday for a three day show of solidarity. He prayed for a victory in Lebanon with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. He broadcast the 700 Club from a hotspot on the Israeli-Lebanon border.
Robertson has not always been so well-received in the Land of Milk and Honey. Last January he suggested that former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon fell into a coma after withdrawing from Gaza, which he termed "dividing God's land."
Yet Robertson is still an aging reflection of a growing movement of Christian Zionists, who not only back the most far right Israeli policies, but espouse a disturbingly end-of-days worldview.
Just read an excerpt from Robertson's recent interview with the Jerusalem Post:
Do you worry that we could be on the verge of some of the apocalyptic visions that are portrayed in the scriptures?
There was a prophet Ezekiel in the time of the Bible who wrote that in the last days there would be an invasion of Israel by a coalition that would include Iran, Russia, Turkey and the Sudan and Libya. God himself is going to defeat that great army that had come against his people. That is a prophecy of one of the Jewish prophets that has yet to be fulfilled. It said that it would be in the later days when Israel has been brought from the nations of the earth and are living in peace in their land.
Are we on the verge of this apocalyptic vision?
Could be.
And don't forget that Robertson's evangelical followers also believe that Jews must be in ancient Judea and Samaria when the Messiah returns for Christians to reclaim their rightful land.
What they really want is the destruction of the people they claim to love.
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Hasn't pretty much everybody, except the fringiest of Right (no names, LVLIB) that Robertson is a nut?
I mean, do the 700 Club guys even let him drive the car or answer the phone anymore...and likely as not they put a security code lock on his door so he wouldn't "wander off", like they do Alzheimer's patients.
Funniest bit on him was Al Franken in 1988 as Robertson in the Republican primaries, discussing his "qualifications to be President"..."I am the President of a broadcasting company....I mowed lawns....I babysat" (Also Dan Ackroyd DEAD ON as Bob Dole).
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 12:36pm
Psychopaths like this belong in a mental institution. It's unconscionable that israel is utilizing them like fascistic political robots to undermine American democracy. They see this manipulation of our republic's institutions as a means to ensure israel's continued mooching of billions of dollars yearly directly from the American taxpayer's weekly paycheck.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 12:36pm
Robertson is guy who speaks his mind and is not afraid to say that he is a Christian.
Yeah, he does say some nutty things from time to time.
I think it is more the fact that he wears his faith for all to see, that pisses off the old secular progressives something fierce.
That he his voice is broadcasted for millions to see, hear, and influence is something those like ARI cannot tolerate.
As far as his trip to Israel goes, perhaps he is simply praying for a country surronded by enemies and subject to merciless and unending terror attacks and nation state attacks for the last 60 yrs.
Shit, Israel will take friends wherever it can get them. Sharpton or Jackson wont be calling to pray w/Olmert anytime soon.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 12:55pm
As far as his trip to Israel goes, perhaps he is simply praying for a country surronded by enemies and subject to merciless and unending terror attacks and nation state attacks for the last 60 yrs.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 12:55am
Does God not have long distance?
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:02pm
If he is so mentally unbalanced then his embracing global warming surely must clinch the assumption! Where is the leftwing vilification for this leap of faith?
Posted by RIO BRAVO 08/10/2006 @ 12:55am
Vilify him for agreeing with us? Where is the rightwing vilification for this admission that the most extreme form of scientific ignorance might not be acceptable? Isn't scientific ignorance in the GOP platform?
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:04pm
As soon as they get their "luggage liquids" checked I believe Jackson, Sharpton, and Lamont are headed to Iran, Syria, and Lebanon to rally their compatriots against the Israeli Zionist and Christian threat to the peaceful Hezbollah and Iranian troops now being so oppressed there!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 08/10/2006 @ 1:00pm
I hope you don't tell your grandchildren bedtime stories.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:07pm
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008768
August 22 Does Iran have something in store?
BY BERNARD LEWIS Tuesday, August 8, 2006 4:30 p.m. EDT
During the Cold War, both sides possessed weapons of mass destruction, but neither side used them, deterred by what was known as MAD, mutual assured destruction. Similar constraints have no doubt prevented their use in the confrontation between India and Pakistan. In our own day a new such confrontation seems to be looming between a nuclear-armed Iran and its favorite enemies, named by the late Ayatollah Khomeini as the Great Satan and the Little Satan, i.e., the United States and Israel. Against the U.S. the bombs might be delivered by terrorists, a method having the advantage of bearing no return address. Against Israel, the target is small enough to attempt obliteration by direct bombardment.
It seems increasingly likely that the Iranians either have or very soon will have nuclear weapons at their disposal, thanks to their own researches (which began some 15 years ago), to some of their obliging neighbors, and to the ever-helpful rulers of North Korea. The language used by Iranian President Ahmadinejad would seem to indicate the reality and indeed the imminence of this threat.
Would the same constraints, the same fear of mutual assured destruction, restrain a nuclear-armed Iran from using such weapons against the U.S. or against Israel?
There is a radical difference between the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments with nuclear weapons. This difference is expressed in what can only be described as the apocalyptic worldview of Iran's present rulers. This worldview and expectation, vividly expressed in speeches, articles and even schoolbooks, clearly shape the perception and therefore the policies of Ahmadinejad and his disciples. Even in the past it was clear that terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam had no compunction in slaughtering large numbers of fellow Muslims. A notable example was the blowing up of the American embassies in East Africa in 1998, killing a few American diplomats and a much larger number of uninvolved local passersby, many of them Muslims. There were numerous other Muslim victims in the various terrorist attacks of the last 15 years.
The phrase "Allah will know his own" is usually used to explain such apparently callous unconcern; it means that while infidel, i.e., non-Muslim, victims will go to a well-deserved punishment in hell, Muslims will be sent straight to heaven. According to this view, the bombers are in fact doing their Muslim victims a favor by giving them a quick pass to heaven and its delights--the rewards without the struggles of martyrdom. School textbooks tell young Iranians to be ready for a final global struggle against an evil enemy, named as the U.S., and to prepare themselves for the privileges of martyrdom.
A direct attack on the U.S., though possible, is less likely in the immediate future. Israel is a nearer and easier target, and Mr. Ahmadinejad has given indication of thinking along these lines. The Western observer would immediately think of two possible deterrents. The first is that an attack that wipes out Israel would almost certainly wipe out the Palestinians too. The second is that such an attack would evoke a devastating reprisal from Israel against Iran, since one may surely assume that the Israelis have made the necessary arrangements for a counterstrike even after a nuclear holocaust in Israel.
The first of these possible deterrents might well be of concern to the Palestinians--but not apparently to their fanatical champions in the Iranian government. The second deterrent--the threat of direct retaliation on Iran--is, as noted, already weakened by the suicide or martyrdom complex that plagues parts of the Islamic world today, without parallel in other religions, or for that matter in the Islamic past. This complex has become even more important at the present day, because of this new apocalyptic vision.
In Islam, as in Judaism and Christianity, there are certain beliefs concerning the cosmic struggle at the end of time--Gog and Magog, anti-Christ, Armageddon, and for Shiite Muslims, the long awaited return of the Hidden Imam, ending in the final victory of the forces of good over evil, however these may be defined. Mr. Ahmadinejad and his followers clearly believe that this time is now, and that the terminal struggle has already begun and is indeed well advanced. It may even have a date, indicated by several references by the Iranian president to giving his final answer to the U.S. about nuclear development by Aug. 22. This was at first reported as "by the end of August," but Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement was more precise. What is the significance of Aug. 22? This year, Aug. 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the 27th day of the month of Rajab of the year 1427. This, by tradition, is the night when many Muslims commemorate the night flight of the prophet Muhammad on the winged horse Buraq, first to "the farthest mosque," usually identified with Jerusalem, and then to heaven and back (c.f., Koran XVII.1). This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary of the world. It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for Aug. 22. But it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind.
A passage from the Ayatollah Khomeini, quoted in an 11th-grade Iranian schoolbook, is revealing. "I am decisively announcing to the whole world that if the world-devourers [i.e., the infidel powers] wish to stand against our religion, we will stand against their whole world and will not cease until the annihilation of all them. Either we all become free, or we will go to the greater freedom which is martyrdom. Either we shake one another's hands in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom. In both cases, victory and success are ours."
In this context, mutual assured destruction, the deterrent that worked so well during the Cold War, would have no meaning. At the end of time, there will be general destruction anyway. What will matter will be the final destination of the dead--hell for the infidels, and heaven for the believers. For people with this mindset, MAD is not a constraint; it is an inducement.
How then can one confront such an enemy, with such a view of life and death? Some immediate precautions are obviously possible and necessary. In the long term, it would seem that the best, perhaps the only hope is to appeal to those Muslims, Iranians, Arabs and others who do not share these apocalyptic perceptions and aspirations, and feel as much threatened, indeed even more threatened, than we are. There must be many such, probably even a majority in the lands of Islam. Now is the time for them to save their countries, their societies and their religion from the madness of MAD.
Mr. Lewis, professor emeritus at Princeton, is the author, most recently, of "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East" (Oxford University Press, 2004).
Posted by woodyee at 08/10/2006 @ 1:14pm
Yes, Pat Robertson says nutty things, but to our "great Leader" those nutty things that Robertons spews forth are gospel and are to be followed.
The present Israel/Lebanon war will help expose the destructive nature of the propaganda espoused through Robertson's and John Hagee's style of evangelicalism.
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:15pm
Robertson and most orthodox Christians are still suffering from the inclusion of the Book of John ("Revelations", which most scholars define as a political-cryptogram against Rome), but this is because most of them never read the New Testament. It is a tragic-misinterpretation that is based on a fear-of-dying, a misreading. Revelations is thought to be about the Emperor Nero, and it is now being said by prominent Biblical-scholars (secular & religious) that even "666" is the wrong-number--it's likely 616, the area-code of the Beast (politicians). Ironically, it's thought that Revelations is likely the most "Gnostic" gospel, and was added to combat the sects, and what they had-to-offer that the rising orthodoxy didn't. But, I would wager that Pat Robertson is in the last-thoes of religious-insanity, along-with alzheimer's. I always thought he and his ilk were dodderers anyway. We're in a time when the scales are simply falling-off most people's eyes, and it can seem unsettling. The key is to offer these hopeless people something-else to believe, something that is worthwhile.
http://chickasawpicklesmell.blogspot.com
Posted by Dr. Mabuse at 08/10/2006 @ 1:16pm
PS: "Apocalypse" in Hellenist-literature meant "a revelation", not necessarily the end of the world. It meant the unfolding of a secret-teaching, or a mystical-knowledge unknown to the reader.
http://chickasawpicklesmell.blogspot.com
Posted by Dr. Mabuse at 08/10/2006 @ 1:19pm
Independents don't have don't have primaries or recieve any parties propoganda, so I would not know.
Posted by RIO BRAVO 08/10/2006 @ 1:13pm
I'm independent too, but that doesn't prevent me from being aware of the Big Two's platforms. Glad to see that you operate free from party propaganda. But the question remains: just where does that stuff come from that your fingers communicate to the www?
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:20pm
As soon as they get their "luggage liquids" checked I believe Jackson, Sharpton, and Lamont are headed to Iran, Syria, and Lebanon to rally their compatriots against the Israeli Zionist and Christian threat to the peaceful Hezbollah and Iranian troops now being so oppressed there!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 08/10/2006 @ 1:00pm
I hope you don't tell your grandchildren bedtime stories.
Posted by TJBEHRENS1 08/10/2006 @ 1:07pm
People like Rio Blotto rarely reproduce which could be an indication that there IS a loving God.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 1:23pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 12:55am | ignore this person
CPT....I think Mr Berman is perfectly happy with Pat on the air.
If Robertson is just mouthing some mundane fundamentalist theology, he doesn't raise a blip on the radar. When he starts talking assassinations, hurricanes hitting Fla. due to Disney providing gay couples benefits, or "explaining" Ariel Sharon's stroke....he provides GREAT fodder for the Left, as surely as a Cynthia McKinney does for the Right.
Just like her, I'm sure Ari Berman would agree with Limbaugh or Hannity...."Keep 'em talking!"
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 1:26pm
As far as his trip to Israel goes, perhaps he is simply praying for a country surronded by enemies and subject to merciless and unending terror attacks and nation state attacks for the last 60 yrs.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 12:55am
Yeah. israel- a nation that chose to be the enemy of every state surrounding it's stolen land and which has subjected all surrounding it to merciless and unending terror attacks and nation state attacks for the last 60 yrs.
Hard to figure out how things happen, isn't it, CPT?
Robertson should be praying for your IQ. That's the front that's collapsing more than any other. Not likely, though. People like Robertson pray for an increase in the number of stupid people born.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 1:31pm
Who cares about Pat Robertson. Anyone who actually gives validity to his foreign policy views probably isn't going to be swayed much by these sorts of articles.
The Nation shouldn't even bother. It's a waste of print.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:32pm
Bravo, Dr. Mabuse. I've never thought the "end of the world as we know it" was such a bad thing, considering most of the reactionaries who run around pronouncing the words. If it's the end of the world as they know it, it can only get better.
Posted by MyCrow at 08/10/2006 @ 1:33pm
MASK
You are proabably right on that aspect....but the culture and dogma of certain leftists leads me to think that there might be something deep inside that really does not want ANY Christian belief broadcasted on the air.
Ari...might be one, but then again maybe not.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 1:33pm
off topic, but here goes. Obviously, British citizen's rights are being violated and it's a very sad day. Although, hundreds, maybe thousands of lives have possibly been saved by the 21 arrests of potential hijackers today, at what cost to civil liberties and personal freedoms? I mean, the Evil police had to have wiretapped these terrorists or maybe even profiled them. So in the end, freedom is the true loser here, and I for one, am disgusted with the actions of the British authorities who are not interested in protected innocent civialian, they are just interested in violating the rights of Muslims. It's a very sad day indeed!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:37pm
CPT:
Give me an example of one person in this country that is "afraid to say his a Christian." The Persecuted Christian Syndrome is about viable in this country as smallpox.
I could care less if he wears his faith on his sleeve. Good for him. My problem is when he tries to incorporate his beliefs in The Rapture to analyzing foreign policy - and news outlets give him a platform, as if he somehow deserves one.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 1:38pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 1:31pm | ignore this person
Yeah i am sure ISRAEL...FORCED six ARAB armies to attack it from all sides.
I am sure...ISRAEL told EVERY Palestineian to leave their homes...because they would be destroyed by the Arab armies.
I am sure ISRAEL forced every Arab country to NOT take in the Palestineans.
I am sure ISRAEL forced Arafat to conduct his terror war on Israeli civilians.
I am sure ISRAEL forced suicide bombers to come into their country and attack bus stations.
I am sure ISRAEL forced HAMAS/HEZBOLLAH to write in their platform that the destruction of Israel is a must.
I am sure ISRAEL forced HEZBOLLAH to attack it.
FROMRED:
You are beyond illiberal and illogical.
PS God Bless you.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 1:42pm
I could care less if he wears his faith on his sleeve.
Posted by HMAN23 08/10/2006 @ 1:38pm | ignore this person
Well then obviously it does not apply to you.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 1:44pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 1:33pm | ignore this person
Don't see why, CPT. Most of them are an embaressment and help the Democrat/liberal cause with their outlandish statements, more than they rally a solid, but shrunken Religious Right voter bloc.
Robertson...natch. Falwell, driven to cable news clown-status, since his "Clinton Chronicles" debacle. James Dobson, discussing "boys taking showers with their dads to prevent homosexuality". Van Impe, seeing the Apocalypse in the release of "Spiderman-3". Ralph Reed building casinos and talking "family values". Or Tim LaHaye marketing a "Half Life: The Rapture" video game.
Censoring those guys would be a great WASTE of material to those on the Left....and Middle I might add!
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 1:46pm
off topic, but here goes. Obviously, British citizen's rights are being violated and it's a very sad day. Although, hundreds, maybe thousands of lives have possibly been saved by the 21 arrests of potential hijackers today, at what cost to civil liberties and personal freedoms? I mean, the Evil police had to have wiretapped these terrorists or maybe even profiled them. So in the end, freedom is the true loser here, and I for one, am disgusted with the actions of the British authorities who are not interested in protected innocent civialian, they are just interested in violating the rights of Muslims. It's a very sad day indeed!
Posted by BARRY25 08/10/2006 @ 1:37pm | ignore this person
I can't believe there is someone more insane than Pat Robertson, but it looks like we found him.
Posted by Zeddmen at 08/10/2006 @ 1:50pm
ZERO
will add one other thing: the Israeli war on Lebanon today demands a hell to pay, and Israel will be joined by the US in rendering payment, when its comeuppance time. You can't get away scot-free with what Israel and the US are doing.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 1:42pm | ignore this person
As a point of FACT, strictly TECHINALLY speaking...they can or we can.
It is a FACT, all the elements of national power are in our favor..and by proxy Israel.
Short of a nuclear terrorism against us, there is really NOTHING any country in the region can do, but denouce us as the "Great Satan"
Other than terrorists attacks, which would kill a realtively low number of people. But terror attacks do not really intimidate any great power, other than European powers, UK being the exception.
They will make slight policy modifiactions, but nothing will intimidate the USA from supporting Israel.
Sorry, well no, i am not sorry, you lose, and others like you.
The USA will always be an ally to Israel, and there is nothing anyone can do about that.
I know this sounds awfully arrogant....not meaning it to be, but I am speaking strictly in a TECHINCAL manner as a response to ole ZERO
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 2:00pm
Robertson's raving insanity discredited from a Christian perspective. [preterist.org] Don't mistake this lunatic for all Christians. He is more properly defined as Antichrist.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:00pm
Making it clear only once that I am deeply opposed to Israeli aggression in Lebanon, I'll elect to respect the obvious though unspoken desire of The Nation to keep its web site free of anti-Israel sentiments.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 1:40pm
If that's true I must be getting aggravating.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:03pm
Religious fanatics are par for the course in either world.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 1:40pm
Zero,
I agree that religious fanatics are present in all religions. See, religion gives people an excuse not to be rational, thus responsible for their actions.
Committing war crimes in the name a religion serve as good examples of "I did it in the name of God," thus one of the reasons for Pat Robertson's visit to Israel.
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:05pm
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 2:05pm
Zero,
I responded earlier to your post cited in my earlier post, but I think that post was lost in the blog system.
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:07pm
...The Nation to keep its web site free of anti-Israel sentiments.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 1:40pm
If that's true I must be getting aggravating.
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 2:03pm | ignore this person
Uh-oh, I smell an MTV "Celebrity Death Match" in the making!
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 2:09pm
Short of a nuclear terrorism against us, there is really NOTHING any country in the region can do, but denouce us as the "Great Satan"
Other than terrorists attacks, which would kill a realtively low number of people. But terror attacks do not really intimidate any great power, other than European powers, UK being the exception.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 2:00pm
So then why did we invade Iraq? I thought they were a "grave threat" after 9/11 and all.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:11pm
...The Nation to keep its web site free of anti-Israel sentiments.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 1:40pm
If that's true I must be getting aggravating.
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 2:03pm | ignore this person
Uh-oh, I smell an MTV "Celebrity Death Match" in the making!
Posted by MASK 08/10/2006 @ 2:09pm
I think my post about war crimes was purged.
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:18pm
Wondering where the end-times hallucinations of Robertson, Falwell, and their nutty ilk originated from? Here:
"Then Saoshyant makes the creatures again pure, and the resurrection and future existence occur" (Zand-i Vohuman Yasht 3:62)
Ancient Zoroastrianism.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:20pm
I think my post about war crimes was purged.
Posted by ORAIBI1952 08/10/2006 @ 2:18pm
I doubt it.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:21pm
Uh-oh, I smell an MTV "Celebrity Death Match" in the making!
Posted by MASK 08/10/2006 @ 2:09pm
Damn, MASK- you're still alive? Take that plastic bag off your head. I can barely hear you.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:23pm
Redbird,
Why do you doubt that my post was purged?
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:24pm
Short of a nuclear terrorism against us, there is really NOTHING any country in the region can do, but denouce us as the "Great Satan"
Other than terrorists attacks, which would kill a realtively low number of people. But terror attacks do not really intimidate any great power, other than European powers, UK being the exception.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 2:00pm
So then why did we invade Iraq? I thought they were a "grave threat" after 9/11 and all.
Posted by HMAN23 08/10/2006 @ 2:11pm
That doesn't count in this conversation. He was making a different point in the other conversation. It's called the Fox-rhetoric School of Dain Bramaged Thought.
This is who's "defending us from terrorists". Oh, dear God.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:26pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 2:23pm | ignore this person
Damn FROMRED....back from your lunch with Nasrallah already?
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 2:27pm
I think my post about war crimes was purged.
Posted by ORAIBI1952 08/10/2006 @ 2:18pm
"Nation" pretty good about not censoring posts, ORAIB....sounds like a tech glitch to me!
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 2:27pm
Redbird,
Why do you doubt that my post was purged?
Posted by ORAIBI1952 08/10/2006 @ 2:24pm
I post things about israeli and American war crimes all the time and none have ever been blocked.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:28pm
Redbird,
Thanks for the response. I tend to thing this blog is one of the few free-speech sites available.
On the other hand, lately several of my posts have not shown up on the blog; could be a technical glitch and I would like to think so.
Posted by oraibi1952 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:32pm
Thanks for the response. I tend to thing this blog is one of the few free-speech sites available.
On the other hand, lately several of my posts have not shown up on the blog; could be a technical glitch and I would like to think so.
Posted by ORAIBI1952 08/10/2006 @ 2:32pm
I think The Nation leaves it completely to the ignore feature and personal preferences. If they were going to block anyone I think they would block them completely rather than try to monitor everything that's posted. Lot's of things can cause an internet packet to get dropped. I wouldn't get suspicious unless it happens pretty consistently.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 2:47pm
Wow, you cite a group who has fewer adherents than a Jehovah Witness Blood Donation fair.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 08/10/2006 @ 2:45pm
As the husband of a recovering witness, I have to say this is perhaps the first time I've found anything LL has posted successfully and intentionally humorous.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 2:53pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 2:26pm
I get it now. Terrorist attacks don't have the power to intimidate the U.S. But, to some, they do justify invading and occupying, to the tune of thousands dead and billions spent, a foreign country not behind any attacks and posing no threat to us.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 3:01pm
Wow, you cite a group who has fewer adherents than a Jehovah Witness Blood Donation fair.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 08/10/2006 @ 2:45pm
Only a minority of self-described Christians subscribe to the nutcase Armageddon fantasies of Robertson and his ilk. Most Christians are simply good, everyday people who believe in God. They don't contort the bible into a weird concatenation of pleas for more violence in the world, as you do.
In any case, the group cited is one of many and was referenced simply because they had an easily accessible website explaining the falsehood of your heresy from even a Christian perspective.
By the way, loose lips, how many adherents did Christ have when he was crucified? Consider yourself Antichrist.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 3:02pm
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 2:56pm
I agree with you that the discussion blogs on the topic of israel have been fewer than would be expected given the events in progress. The articles, though, without discussion attached, have been current, informative, and well-written. If the discussion of israel is being avoided somewhat it's probably out of concern to avoid quarreling within "progressive" ranks. I can't abide that priortization. It's backward. But I'm not completely convinced that The Nation has that viewpoint.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 3:13pm
Shimon Peres today: "I think it will take weeks not months".
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14206629/
Sound familiar? It should - the source is the same. The authors of this quote (in the George Bush admin) originally said it about Iraq.
Posted by LiberalPride at 08/10/2006 @ 3:28pm
(I know he's ignoring me, but I have to ask...)
"...it is not like the outright censorship with ridiculous associated denunciations of "anti-semitism" that any critic of Israel normally expects in public expression in America."
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 3:22pm | ignore this person
How does that square with Howard Dean calling Iraqi PM Al Maliki an "anti-Semite" over his criticisms of Israel?
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 3:30pm
. . . and some deeply spooky true Jew haters, who are the worst enemies serious critics of Israel could ever have.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 3:25pm
On another site yesterday what I suspect are a couple of anti-semites glommed on to what I was saying. I made clear that I wasn't anti-semitic and they have, so far, limited themselves to comments about "Christian civilization" and it's "enemies" (guess who). I'll whack them if they stick their heads out any further. People like this have in the past accused me of being a zionist Jew which is pretty funny juxtaposed to what zionists accuse me of.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 3:38pm
People who want to see an unfiltered view of the perception of the issues at hand that is actually different than the Israeli and US neocon view can find an entrypoint online at the Angry Arab News Service. There is a LOT more information available there than one gets through NYT/CNN/etc.
Posted by ZERO 08/10/2006 @ 3:25pm
This is a good news conglomeration site [antiwar.com] although run by libertarians with a libertarian and conservative spin in many of their editorials. This one is a good news conglomerator, too, without the libertarianism. [patriotdaily.com]
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 3:46pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 08/10/2006 @ 3:02pm
By the way, LUVVY1, if you have more to say you'll have to con someone else into reproducing it since you're on my ignore list.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 3:49pm
So, old Pat is praying in Israel, eh, well, good, we can use it...
I am sitting in LAX airport after a 1 hour security line... Congrates to the UK and the US intelligence agencys...looks like we got one.....If they are indeed Pakistani, then why call them British..which is it? If they are Pakistani, then deport them and tell that little shit Musharrif we are going to flatten every square inch of the "un governable territory" in the western province..and tell Rhandi Rhodes, after last nites humiliating performance spot on Larry King is still alive, that she needs to rethink her "Terrorists are a political problem we need to negotiate".. we are under universal attack by Muslim fundemantalists, who are being harbored by many nations...maybe we should start using some of our muscle to make some of these guys pay a price for lip service about helping us...
Posted by john maasch at 08/10/2006 @ 4:16pm
FRB
Ancient Zoroastrianism.
Yes, the Zoroastrians were responsible for a dualist twist on the basic Indo-European themes. Interestingly, such escheatology seems to show up in other Indo-European religious systems. I'm thinking of the Norse Ragnarok and the Mahabharata. The latter deals with Kings rather than Gods but the divine links of the characters and the sheer destructions of the final battle suggest it evolved from an end-of-the-world narrative.
Posted by brunowe at 08/10/2006 @ 4:20pm
I would think, now after today, it is going to be harder to run as a hard lefty on the war on terror.
As more is revealed about how this airplane AQ plot, and precisely how they were captured, it is going to make those who were so adament in opposing of the terrorist surviellence look very weak.
The UK said it used those sneek and peek warrants as one of the tools that was instrumental in capturing these guys.
God Bless them.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 4:48pm
Posted by BRUNOWE 08/10/2006 @ 4:20pm | ignore this person
Just to note...there ARE pre-Columbian Native American eschatologies....the Hopi and the more famous Mayan (which "wraps things up in....whoa...six years from now, 2012!)
Posted by Mask at 08/10/2006 @ 4:49pm
Again people, freedom isn't free. So, the Brit's should have allowed those persecuted muslim terrorists to board and blow up those planes today to show that they respect individual freedoms and rights! Who cares about the victims, because freedom ain't free. What's always more important ( just ask the ACLU or any lib ) is that we don't offend, violate the privacy of, or profile potential terrorists. This is where our focus should be ( just ask the ACLU, the MSM, or any lib)! Protecting personal freedoms comes first, protecting innocent life comes second ( just ask the Nation or the intellectuals at Air America )! Come on people, where are your priorities!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 4:53pm
As a Jew it sickens me that Israelis should be duped into believing the Pat Robertson crowd is any friend of the Jewish people. They're quite content for Israel to be consumed by the flames of ongoing war. They have no problem encouraging Israel to pursue policies that are morally wrong and self destructive.
Intrepid Liberal Journal [intrepidliberaljournal.blogspot.com]
Posted by trebor007 at 08/10/2006 @ 4:59pm
TREBOR
So would you let them destroy Israel and kill every Jew in sight?
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 5:10pm
Posted by TREBOR007 08/10/2006 @ 4:59pm
That blog's already in my favorites file but I haven't been reading it. That's not a derogatory comment about the blog, though. I must have about 3,000 favorites.
Posted by fromredbird at 08/10/2006 @ 5:11pm
I would think, now after today, it is going to be harder to run as a hard lefty on the war on terror.
As more is revealed about how this airplane AQ plot, and precisely how they were captured, it is going to make those who were so adament in opposing of the terrorist surviellence look very weak.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 4:48pm
Well, if you are certain this is the case, perhaps you could reveal the reasons why you are so confident. Obviously you know more than we do.
I couldn't help think about our little capture of miscreants in Miami just a month or two ago. And how hard Chertoff had to go out of his way to tell us that this really, really was a threat that really, really, really had serious potential to kill people.
And then I wonder just how safe this world would be if Bush never went on vacation.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 5:22pm
The mental disorder known as liberalism has reared it's ugly head once again in the form of Ed " limosine-liberal" Lamont. He is quoted as saying that the biggest threat to national security is North Korea! Message to the traitorous left: NK is an isolated country with a crazy dictator ( contrary to what Madeline " where's my burger " Albright might like to believe )that may have Nukes, Radical Islam is WORLDWIDE MORONS! There's no comparison between the two, idiots! Now, more proof that Lamont is out of touch with reality: he went on to state that we need to have one on one talks with NK right after he stated that we can't go it alone and that SK, Japan and China need to get involved too! This man is not only INSANE, he's STUPID! Talk about havin' it both ways, my god you libs are FOOLS! But i know, Radical Islam, NK, they are minor threats, the big threat is the EVIL Bush and those damn Jews!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 5:47pm
Oh joy...the rapture nuts are gonna flock onto this like flies on a cowpie.
Posted by leftofcenter at 08/10/2006 @ 5:49pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 2:00pm: It is a FACT, all the elements of national power are in our favor..and by proxy Israel.
Short of a nuclear terrorism against us, there is really NOTHING any country in the region can do, but denouce us as the "Great Satan"
Other than terrorists attacks, which would kill a realtively low number of people. But terror attacks do not really intimidate any great power
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 5:10pm: So would you let them destroy Israel and kill every Jew in sight?
Don't you find these two remarks to be contradictory, scared little recruitin man?
I'm just asking.
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:04pm
love how CPT and Barry are trying to use the UK arrests by trying to drum up a debate that isn't there about civil liberties and personal freedoms.
Hey guys, how about waiting until somebody actually brings up an argument before trying to make one up for them?
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:04pm
Posted by TJBEHRENS1 08/10/2006 @ 5:22pm | ignore this person
TJB
I am not really that confident, that it would translate into a weakness, being that Americans do have short memeories and even though this was a close call, sometimes close is not enough
It would stand to reason though, the techinques involved is what has been reported. The brits did extensive surveilllence and used the sneek and peek warrant to obtain much of their info...many found those techinques very objectionable here.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 6:05pm
OH JOY....whenever you hear that term used, you know you're in the presence of a utopian la-la lander!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:08pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:05pm: It would stand to reason though, the techinques involved is what has been reported.
I have not seen any reports that the British government violated British law in order to catch the alleged terrorists. Have you?
What were the illegal techniques utilized by the British government?
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:10pm
Hman, the pending cries of civil rights violations are so predictable that we are just trying to speed up the inevitable. Kinda like last year's tsunami and Katrina, as soon as both occured i told my wife, " get ready, their gonna blame Bush"! I was proven right within 24 hrs.
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:11pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:05pm: many found those techinques very objectionable here.
Actually, what people found objectionable was the Bush administration violating the law, repeatedly, and on an ongoing basis.
So what were the illegal techniques utilized by the British government?
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:11pm
Posted by ORWELL2005 08/10/2006 @ 6:04pm | ignore this person
See, this is the crux of the matter in miniature. Like your mentor, you are not putting the matter in context and are willifully ignoring the intent and purpose behind each statement.
Two different posts. Two different statements.
No contradiction because they are two different answers to two different postings.
You are a perfect Chomskyite.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 6:13pm
The illegal techniques used were any and all that were supported by the Evil Tony Blair, just wait and see! C'mon, I mean where are your priorities? The abuse of a few detainees ( terrorists ), profiling, wiretapping, internet monitoring! These are actions that threaten our very existence! Nuclear bombs, beheadings, suicide bombers, flying airplanes into buildings, biological weapons are just figments of our imagination! They are just tools that King George uses to further his master plan of world domination! Wake up America!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:17pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:13pm: You are a perfect Chomskyite.
Thanks. I am glad that I am perfect at something.
But other than pointing out that they are two separate posts, I don't see how you have explained the contradiction. In the first post, you claim that the US and Israel are too powerful for anyone to stop them. And that terrorism, at best, kills "a realtively low number of people".
In the second post, you claim that if Israel did not respond to Hezbollah terrorism by destroying Lebanon, they would be letting Hezbollah "destroy Israel and kill every Jew in sight".
Is killing every jew in sight consistent with killing a relatively low number of people?
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:23pm
Ah, man! Racism has reared it's ugly head again in the form of the arrest of Maurice Clarrett! Although it took a spikestrip to stop his SUV ( runnin' from da' man )and he was caught wearing a bulletproof vest with multiple guns found in the SUV only blocks away from the woman's house who was supposed to testify against him in his upcoming robbery trial ( with a gun ), RACISM is the actual cause of the arrest. Can't a man play cowboys and indians anymore without gettin' harrassed for the color of his skin? Where's Sharpton, Jackson and McKinney? We need to put a stop to this once and for all! We know that any white man with the same set of circumstances would surely have been left alone!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:25pm
Posted by ORWELL2005 08/10/2006 @ 6:23pm | ignore this person
Again i refer you back to my previous post.
I cannot explain it any better.
There is no contradiction, if you go back and re-read the original posts, especially the first one, i think it will become clear.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 6:27pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:27pm
I have re-read your posts. And I do not understand how there is not a contradiction between
A. Terrorism is a minor threat that kills small numbers of people.
B. If Israel does nothing, the terrorists will wipe out every Israeli.
If you are unwilling to elaborate, I will assume that it is because you are unable to explain away the contradiction.
My guess is that point A was an accidental brain-fart. It is certainly not on the approved list of whackjob talking points.
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:32pm
Here's CPT's earlier post, in all its wisdom:
Other than terrorists attacks, which would kill a realtively low number of people. But terror attacks do not really intimidate any great power, other than European powers, UK being the exception.
Now, in his defense, he is speaking about "great" powers, which might not include Israel. However, what interests me more is his notion that terror attacks really don't faze us.
So what war is it again that our military is waging? Is it that the country as a whole sucks it up, but the military is a bunch of scaredy-cats?
And as for today's big news, glad to see that our boys on this side of the pond are again choosing reaction over proaction. Empty out the toothpaste tubes, boys and girls. Leave your cough syrup at home.
I'm beginning to think that the terrorists are really just Greyhound and Amtrak executives.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:39pm
Two different posts. Two different statements.
No contradiction because they are two different answers to two different postings.
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:13pm
ummm . . . where I come from that's called contradicting yourself.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 6:44pm
ORWELL
Ok, for you....
The first post I was strictly TECHINICALLY speaking in terms of national power as it related to ZEROs threat of retribution, to not go unpunished(paraphrasing)
Techinical being the operative word: without being subject to other external factors.
That point is true enough...pound for pound, size up all factors of national power, there is little any regional arab country can do to break our alliance or support of Israel.
Terrorist attacks in and of themselves are not sufficeint to break that alliance as 911 proved(the ultimate goal of driving the US from the ME, therefore leaving Israel on an isolated)
Now the other point which you reference is in response to another poster who suggest Israel did the wrong thing defending itself the way it did. The point of the Hezbollah terrorist attack was to force an exchange of prisoners....that has failed..so far.
But by no means should they allow themselves to turn the other cheek and simply be attacked because they can withstand it. That would be folly
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 6:47pm
ORWELL
Like many Chomsky devotees...that thinking is not a bad way to think. Dont get me wrong.
BUT, i simply dont think you can apply that model to nation-state foriegn policy.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 6:54pm
Terrorist attacks in and of themselves are not sufficeint to break that alliance as 911 proved(the ultimate goal of driving the US from the ME, therefore leaving Israel on an isolated)
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:47pm
So rather than protect us from terrorist attacks, what our president decided to do was incite them. You believe we are attacked for our presence there and support of Israel. In the last three years we see countries who have joined us take on more than their share of attacks. And now, stupidly, Israel has decided to join in the fun. All the while, one little thing remains a mystery: why are we not as interested in capturing bin Laden as we are in overseeing the spread of terrorism?
At some point, don't you think releasing the middle east from the influence of western powers might not be worth considering? If Israel wants to be western, let 'em try it out on their own. They should have followed the well-worn Wolfe dictum: you can't go home again...especially when you have to blast your way to the front lawn.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 7:02pm
And I'd like to hear more of your analysis of Chomsky's failures.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 7:07pm
TJBEHRENS1:
Here I go inciting a shitstorm... but, perhaps this is the administration's and the state's (CIA/NSA/Pentagon) means of manufacturing an ostensibly credible threat for the folk. Without a credible threat, how else can we be incited to bloodlust and to wear the blinders of super-patriotism for the next 50 years, like we did during the Cold War?
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:08pm
TJB
To be honest, i dont think they needed much incitement.
There is a pretty good book called the "Legacy of Jihad" it worth a look. Pretty good historical background without being preachy.
As much as withdrawing from the Middle East completely appeals to me, personally.
Get tired of watching the rest of the world stand by while we seemingly always have to do the heavy lifting, its their world too. They should start giving a shit.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 7:12pm
Chomsky's problem is mostly being an anti-Zionist Jew and an anarchist. Not that I see that as a problem, but it makes him an easy target for the wingnuts, because they can't imagine someone not ascribing to an ideology... so they malign him and attack him ad hominem, rather than actually deal with this writings in an rational, intellectual way. It's all emotion with them. Which is precisely why you can't argue with them. Their ideology blinds them. Emotion too often, for many people, obscure reason. Not to say that emotion isn't important (hence, the Sturm und Drang reaction to the Enlightenment emphasis on pure reason), but when one allows emotion to overcome reason, you get rightwingnutters running around screaming for blood.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:14pm
Damn, sorry about the typos...
dealing*
obscures*
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:17pm
TJB
Chomsky is not bad guy, he's a pretty good linguist by all accounts.
I just think that his ideas shouldnt be applied toward conducting a nations foriegn policy.
Saw him at a seminar/lecture, it was even on CSPAN, was in the back row at West Point, yeah no shit West Point, visited a friend who was an alumni from there and he took me, not such a bad guy, a typical idealists.
I give them a lot of criticisms, but the world needs idealists, keeps things fresh.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 7:19pm
Christian author and "Apocalypse now advocate" Joel C, Rosenberg has apparently claimed on the July 26 edition of CNN's Live From ... that he has "been invited to the White House, [and] Capitol Hill" to explain the current Middle East conflict "through the lens of biblical prophecies."
From Media Matters Aug.1, 2006
We shouldn't have to wait long to see if Bush's new foreign policy advisor on middle eastern affairs is a step up from Wolfowitz and Pearl or not. I guess he couldn't be much worse.
Posted by Red Neckerson at 08/10/2006 @ 7:27pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/10/2006 @ 7:08pm
It's a remarkable situation. I enjoy conspiracies but rarely join in. Yet I have no idea what to believe. To have truly serious matters in the hands of men and women who do not have the best interests of the people of this country in mind is certainly the most frightening thing imaginable--far more frightening to me than any threat that a handful of boobs with incendiary elixir could pose.
So you wanted a shitstorm...
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 7:27pm
Posted by BARRY25 08/10/2006 @ 6:08pm
Don't like "Oh Joy" eh? As usual your defined lack of substance, just ravings and semi-pointed pseudo comedy. Kind of like the GOP controlled Congress!
Posted by leftofcenter at 08/10/2006 @ 7:29pm
CPT,
Thank you for your responses. Though I wonder if you are not as disillusioned with our military presence in the ME as we idealists are. Sounds like you're ready for the whole gang to bug out of the area.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 7:31pm
CPT:
Chomsky isn't an idealist. Obviously you haven't a clue what the man is about. He's more a cynic about human nature than anything else. Hence his dogged support of greater democratization as a buffer against tyranny. He's right on the money. If we had greater democratization, instead of greater corporatization (which is actually greater totalitarianism), perhaps we wouldn't be corralled into stupid foreign policy miasmas like Iraq and Afghanistan.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:33pm
So anyway,picking up on my last post, the Robertsons and the Rosenbergs are harmless cranks not to be taken seriously. Except when they have the ear of the man whose finger is on the buton.
Posted by Red Neckerson at 08/10/2006 @ 7:36pm
TJBEHRENS1:
While I understand why you call what I wrote a conspiracy, I don't understand why it is that difficult to believe. Honestly, we fell victim to it post-WWII, with the Cold War. Why does the term conspiracy have such a bad connotation? We have evidence of conspiracies everywhere... the overthrow of Mossedegh, the overthrow of Guatemalan democracy, the coup d'etat of Venezuela, the S&L scandal, Iran-Contra, the elections of 2000 and 2004, etc. etc. The list goes on. The better question would be, why aren't more people wary of conspiracy when there is so much overwhelming evidence of their existence?
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:38pm
I don't believe Robertson is a wingnut. I believe he is a cool, calculating businessman trading on fear. If he were nuts, that gives him an excuse. I, for one, am not willing to excuse him for being such a purveyor of hate.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 7:40pm
Hman, the pending cries of civil rights violations are so predictable that we are just trying to speed up the inevitable. Kinda like last year's tsunami and Katrina, as soon as both occured i told my wife, " get ready, their gonna blame Bush"! I was proven right within 24 hrs.
Posted by BARRY25 08/10/2006 @ 6:11pm
Was your call right when it hit, or after the four days Bush and his administration sat on their asses? If it was the latter, not a wild prediction on your part.
Don't remember anyone blaming the tsunami on Bush - probably just you folks applying false arguments to the other side again.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 8:00pm
TJB
I would say I am more disillussioned with the rest of the world, i am tired of them not doing there fair share.
It almost, makes you want to say fine, you deal with it. But then you know they never will.
This war on terror and the asymmetrical nature of it, ensures long hard slogs, the old "not with a bang but with a wimper" will it die.
I personally would rather hear the bang, the bang is shorter in duration...the whimper takes way too long.
JORCHEIM:
Fine, he is cynic.
Posted by CPT at 08/10/2006 @ 8:01pm
CPT:
Considering the fact that the vast majority of terrorism in this world is a direct result of our behavior toward other nations, we really start considering the long-term results of our actions (meaning, leave the rest of the world the hell alone) instead of automatically assuming there is no rhyme or reason (or justification) to the acts of "terrorists".
We have military bases in almost every single country on the planet. Maybe... just MAYBE... the actions of these people are the acts of desperate people lashing out at the behemoth who has in most cases made their lives absolutely unlivable.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 8:11pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:54pm: Like many Chomsky devotees...
How did I become a Chomsky devotee?
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 8:55pm
Posted by CPT 08/10/2006 @ 6:54pm: BUT, i simply dont think you can apply that model to nation-state foriegn policy.
What is "that model"? I was pointing out that your two posts were contradictory.
Is Chomsky's model that one should not make mutually contradictory assertions?
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 8:58pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/10/2006 @ 7:08pm: Without a credible threat, how else can we be incited to bloodlust and to wear the blinders of super-patriotism for the next 50 years, like we did during the Cold War?
Or even more to the point, without a credible threat, how can we convince ourselves that it makes sense to waste 500 million dollars each year on "defense"?
When you are being conned, follow the money.
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 9:01pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/10/2006 @ 7:38pm
Huge misunderstanding here! I was not referring to your post as reflecting conspiracy-minded folks, but was riffing off of it--poorly, apparently. You are perhaps the most reliably sane poster who visits this site. I meant no disrespect.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 9:21pm
Rove set up the UK terror arrests, I know it! Red threat level.. hmmmmmmm! Kinda funny the Bush regime always seems to go to the threat indicator when there's an election on the horizon! I smell a rat! That damn Rove is always playin' politics with his little terrorist stooges!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 9:23pm
Posted by BARRY25 08/10/2006 @ 9:23pm
Ba, you might want to stop. You are really embarassing yourself.
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 9:30pm
TJBEHRENS1:
Thank you for the wonderful compliment. I wasn't implying that you were maligning my pointing out the probability of there being a conspiracy, at all. I was simply restating my point, and pointing out something the frustrates me about so many people who ascribe to the "conventional wisdom". I was actually trying to goad the rightwingnutters into posting more of their drivel.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 9:53pm
ORWELL2005:
Or, as Chris Tucker said in Rush Hour 2... follow the rich white dude. In this case, follow the rich white dudes (the rich guys wearing white, in the case of the Saudi sheiks).
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 9:55pm
Orwell, I'm shocked! I've finally come over to your side, I'm expressing your sentiments when I condemn Rove and Bush as the Satanic maniacs that they are, and you are still hatin' " Can't we all just get along"!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 10:07pm
Newsflash: Entrapment! How dare the Brits foolow Bush's lead in violating basic human rights by sending an undercover agent to infiltrate a supposed terrorist cell! "Those poor boys" ( Charlie Rangel on Uday and Kusay )were entrapped!!!!!!! We're all doomed if we don't stand up to this abuse of power! Wake up America!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 10:11pm
I was actually trying to goad the rightwingnutters into posting more of their drivel.
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/10/2006 @ 9:53pm
Oh.
Well, then.
Hey, JORCHEIM, I'm not going to just sit here and read this "America Last" bullshit. You know, buddy, if you don't like it, I've got a towel, a robe, and a one-way ticket to southern Lebanon so you can join your fellow anti-Semites in aiming aimless rockets at God's Chosen People--all for the purpose of taking over the most wretched stretch of land on God's Often Sandy Earth. You know, Hezbollah is not offering the virgins like al Qaeda, so all of your hate isn't even going to get you any action.
Oh man. That's about all of that I can handle. I just saw my soul fly out of my office window. Forgive me.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 08/10/2006 @ 10:13pm
Oh, I forgot, "Fight the Power" too!
Posted by barry25 at 08/10/2006 @ 10:13pm
Posted by BARRY25 08/10/2006 @ 10:11pm: Newsflash: Entrapment!
So that's how you got caught pole-smoking the icky-wicky.
Posted by orwell2005 at 08/10/2006 @ 10:19pm
Sounds like BARRY25 has been reading Chuck D's autobiography. Maybe he'll learn something.
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 10:32pm
TJBEHRENS1:
Wow... now THAT was impressive! LOL!!!
Posted by jorcheim at 08/10/2006 @ 10:33pm
Time for bed Barry.
Posted by Hman23 at 08/10/2006 @ 11:26pm
".If they are indeed Pakistani, then why call them British..which is it? If they are Pakistani, then deport them and tell that little shit Musharrif we are going to flatten every square inch of the "un governable territory" in the western province."
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/10/2006 @ 4:16pm
YEA! And if they're British, we'll tell that little shit, Blair, that we're going to flatten his "un governable" airports....yea!
"we are under universal attack by Muslim fundemantalists, who are being harbored by many nations...maybe we should start using some of our muscle to make some of these guys pay a price for lip service about helping us..."
YEA! let's invade or blow up every middleeastern country that hates us for occupying land in the middle east. Plus, we have plenty of troops. And plenty of money for more military adventures. That'll fix everything.
There. All better.
Like Iraq.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 08/11/2006 @ 02:55am
Time for bed Eric.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 08/11/2006 @ 02:55am