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RedditThe following comes from a reader and frequent correspondent. This is not someone with particularly progressive politics. In fact, he only very recently has come to identify as a Democrat. No radical lefty, he.
I don't get the democrats on this one. Even if Charles Grassley and Olympia Snowe vote for this deal, the Republicans will still run against it as the Obama/Pelosi plan. Why not stick to your guns, treat the problem from a parliamentary perspective, and put through a plan that you actually think is optimal. The current attempt won't protect their downside at all and may limit the upside. Very frustrating.
More than frustrating. Enraging.
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The problem for conservative Dems is very simple.
Support for Obamas health plan is collapsing. The people have already concluded it has no chance of working as the economy tanks further. The plan is 1000 pages long written by uber liberal staffers and never read by the congressman voting for it. It is being stuffed down the throats of the people as was everything else this congress has done to us. And finally the public has had enough. And this is just the begining. The polls show Obama is in Carter mode as predcted. The conservative Dens know this and many are in districts that vote Repub. And they don't want s post office model no matter how much the left believes the PO is a model of efficiency.
Maybe once the media starts to figure out the current leadrship in Washington is the problem in Anerica and not the solution we can begin to dump the Cap & trade, the "stimulus", and start to cut spending and taxes to get the economy out of free fall.
I wonder where Bushfools is with his constant polls. He must be at hone sick with fear and confusion as the country begins to see what he can't....that the country in not a far left land and will drop the Dems as fast as they dropped the Repubs.
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 10:30am
Max is thinking about the big payoffs he's going to receive from Big Pharma & the private health insurance industry.
Maximum Max.
He's certainly not devoting his beautiful mind to thinking about the tens of millions who'll remain uninsured.
Posted by sloper at 07/28/2009 @ 10:53am
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 10:30am
And naturally, MAASCH ignores the polls showing broad support for SOME health care plan....and the total LACK of polling showing people want it to be "personal medical savings accounts" and "tort reform."
And the fact that Republican politician see what he refuses to...that opposing "Obamacare" is a winner...but appearing to say no to ANYTHING is a loser.
Which is why though "The Nation" and those on the Left will be disappointed with no single-payer...there WILL be a bill...
which of course no matter what it is, MAASCH will call "socialism" and proclaim our doom.
heheh
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 10:56am
"And naturally, MAASCH ignores the polls showing broad support for SOME health care plan...."
Naturaly Mask makes a point that isn't there.
Nope, never ignored it...just noticed the ABUNDANCE of polls that are against this plan and the Obama free fall...
Of course the country wants hqelth care reform...so does my medical family..
Mask, stop making issues where there are...none to be made..
and Mask...before long, opposing anything Obama will be a winner...
and yes,Mask, any govt involvment with the control of the resourcces and the services of health care IS socialism..
Heheh
Still, I do wonder what happened to our resident poller...
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 11:44am
We should be getting Repub media blitz post summer recess.........along with the lobbyist astroturf ads.
Love the industry ad.......
Gosh.....you mean Americans want insurance that isn't dependent on them keeping their job? Americans want portability of their health insurance? Gosh, you mean Americans want insurance, despite preexisting conditions? Gosh, you means Americans don't want to be cancelled for existing conditions? Hey....why didn't you say so? We can do it! A little less politics and a little more cooperation is all that is needed.
If the insurance industry cared for anything other than its own profits, we would have this already.
What hogwash. It is going to be 'real' interesting what 'we' come up with.
Posted by OneVote at 07/28/2009 @ 11:48am
1. Shore up medicare and medicaid in preparation for the baby boomer onslaught. Absolutely a must.
2. Enact tort reform so that doctors can stop ordering billions of dollars worth of unnessasary test in order to protect themselves from mal-practice lawsuits. Absolutely a must.
3. Make it illegal for private insurers and any other kind of insurer to refuse a patient because of 'prior condition'. If you're sick, you're sick. Absolutely a must.
4. Provide a catastrophic insurance plan that will be available to all American citizens on a voluntary basis at an attractive premium. No American should face financial wipeout because of a catastrophic illness. Absolutely a must.
These four requirements will solve the health care problem in America which is the best the world has to offer. Poor people can still be treated in ERs for emergency treatment and go to clinics for the rest. Both sides should be able to live with this compromise. Give Obama the credit. Who cares.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 11:52am
My favorite ad was much more to the point.
It said........
Ask your congressman if he READ the bill before he decided to vote for it....
The other problem we need to address is what do we do with all the Cabadians who come here for the care they can't wait for or can't get in Canada when we get the same shifty system they have?
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 12:19pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 11:44am
Maasch, any of what I posted...you deny is going to happen?
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 12:21pm
Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/28/2009 @ 11:52am
So...why didn't the GOP Congress do any of those things from 2003-2006?
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 12:22pm
So...why didn't the GOP Congress do any of those things from 2003-2006?
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 12:22pm
Did the GOP have a fillibuster proof majority in the Senate? You continue to ignore reality. Remember, Bush tried to at least get the ball rolling on SS reform but the left had a cow over it.
Posted by fram at 07/28/2009 @ 12:52pm
Posted by fram at 07/28/2009 @ 12:52pm
So....the Republicans will NEVER enact any health care reform, UNTIL they get a filibuster-proof Senate, huh?
and wasn't it the American people who rejected Dubya's attempts at "partial privatizing" Social Security? He had no problems getting his wars and tax cuts, did he?
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 1:16pm
If Obama signs a health bill into law and it lacks a serious public option, his presidency is a failure, and the Democratic Party would be to blame.
Posted by syfriendly at 07/28/2009 @ 2:30pm
Posted by syfriendly at 07/28/2009 @ 2:30pm
Just go ahead and roll out your "Nader in '12" bumper stickers and save time.
Posted by Mask at 07/28/2009 @ 2:47pm
all the hullaballoo on this site back in November (and up to a few weeks ago when Franken finally won) about getting a filibuster proof majority---and what good has it done?
or did The Nation not understand politics then?
Posted by urmygyro at 07/28/2009 @ 2:59pm
In the time it has taken me to write this, approximately 19 people have lost their health care insurance.
This supposes an average of 14,000 a day losing their coverage (which is one of the many numbers being bandied about), divided by 24 hours in a day (583.3333...), divided by 60 minutes in an hour (9.722222...), and the two minutes it took to write this and do the math on a calculator made in China.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/28/2009 @ 3:05pm
all the hullaballoo on this site back in November (and up to a few weeks ago when Franken finally won) about getting a filibuster proof majority---and what good has it done?
Posted by urmygyro at 07/28/2009 @ 2:59pm
Unlike The Nation and most of you Lefties, I viewed your side's gaining 60 Senate votes as nothing but pure divine.......Hope and Change for us conservatives.
You own the show....and, better yet, we get to watch you perform!
Posted by Happy at 07/28/2009 @ 3:21pm
and the two minutes it took to write this and do the math on a calculator made in China.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/28/2009 @ 3:
in the 2 minutes the Chinese could do the math in his head...so can I...
Btw, I am one of those who has had no health care by choice...I did the math...the same math the insurance companies do...and it is cheaper to pay out of pocket for the first 16 years of life and then take out long term catastrophic care in a health savings account...
and no need for a govt hack in the deal.
..but they don't teach analytical thinking, economics, or indepenece on ones own capacity in school anymore...just more govt systems and the joy of a w-2 pay stub in a union shop where all deductions are gone before you even see your check, no matter how long or well you work.
And you are surprised at the state of our country?
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 3:21pm
Well folks, something must be making the insurance titans quake in their boots a little. I just saw a commercial where if you don't have insurance coverage because your work place doesn't provide it or you can't afford single coverage to call blue cross. Where in the hell was Blue Cross two years ago with this single person coverage that wouldn't break the bank?
What we have here in the U.S. is a health care coverage monopoly going on. The insurance companies don't want any competition to drive their price-fixed rates down.
All of these right wingers keep ranting about the free market system and how competition is so great. Here's some food for thought.
How about allowing Americans to purchase their medications from other countries like Canada, Europe etc instead of here. Here's another one, since the insurance industry feels they get to dictate what kind of surgery is "for the good of the patient" why not cut them out of the loop and provide American workers with information on health care around the world. There are countries that provide excellent health care at a fraction of the cost.
When the insurance jackasses are cut out as the middle man perhaps then and only then will the prices truly come down and the same goes for the huge drug costs.
It's not the doctors nurses or even the microbiologists working for the big pharmaceuitcals making all the money...it's the damned insurance execs, hospital administrators and pharmaceutical execs and salespeople. That's a handful of people causing the rest of the nation great agony. If anyone deserves to lose their jobs, it's those folks. They've been screwing the rest of us for far too long.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/28/2009 @ 4:28pm
Max is thinking: (a) He's worked on this issue longer & harder than most in the US Senate; (b) He's in a position to facilitate a bargain with some Democrats and some Republicans; (c) Better a bill that will pass both Houses meet the stated principles of the President and will be signed into law by him, even if less that is perfectly desirable by anyone's vision, than the "perfect" bill by someone's vision going down in flames.
Posted by Cork at 07/28/2009 @ 4:30pm
Unlike The Nation and most of you Lefties, I viewed your side's gaining 60 Senate votes as nothing but pure divine.......Hope and Change for us conservatives.
You own the show....and, better yet, we get to watch you perform!
Posted by Happy at 07/28/2009 @ 3:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I'm not a Lefty and the Democrats are not "my side"
Posted by urmygyro at 07/28/2009 @ 4:40pm
BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BAUCUS!!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 07/28/2009 @ 5:04pm
So.....young Christopher has "a reader and frequent correspondent" who also is a new Hopey and Changey new Democrat....by the way, common sense says that he is in fact, a "radical lefty" hanging stupidly onto Magic's black tail.....thinks the Dems should just "put through a plan that you actually think is optimal"!
Trouble is, only 17% of Americans think you know what you're doing....and something tells me that % number matches the % of just-gimme takers.
July 27, 2009
Two in Three Doubt Congress' Grasp of Healthcare Issues
Americans perceive themselves as more knowledgeable than lawmakers
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans view themselves as more knowledgeable than members of Congress regarding the current debate over healthcare reform. Nearly half (48%) say they personally have a good understanding of the issues involved, while only 27% say so about members of Congress.
These Gallup findings are based on interviewing conducted Sunday, July 26, as the push toward new healthcare reform legislation continues to dominate the focus of Congress, the White House, and the national news media.
That less than 3 in 10 Americans believe that Congress has a good understanding of the issues involved in the healthcare debate underscores the basic lack of confidence that Americans have in the men and women they elect and send off to Washington to represent them. Gallup's recent update on confidence in institutions, for example, found that 17% of Americans have a great deal/quite a lot of confidence in Congress, near the bottom of the list of institutions tested....
http://www.gallup.com/poll/121916/Two-Three-
Doubt-Congress-Grasp-Healthcare-Issues.aspx
Posted by Happy at 07/28/2009 @ 6:17pm
On one of the healthcare threads on here, in response to the posted figure that around two-thirds of Americans want government sponsored healthcare, a wingnut responded with one of those heartless, and completely fabricated non-analogies they're fed by hate-talk radio: "And 100% of children want free toys for Christmas."
Not only cruel, but not even an half-way decent analogy -- no children will be crippled, blinded or die of untreated cancer, if they don't receive toys for Christmas.
A better analogy would be, "And 100% of health insurance CEOs want 10 million dollar bonuses."
That's the real trade-off: actual healthcare for Americans, instead of the shell game of insurance pulled out from under them when they get seriously ill, versus dirty, blood-drenched and obscene profits for the health insurance industry.
In every industrialized nation of this world (and some of the developing countries) government-supported healthcare exists side-by-side with insurance companies making a profit.
Perhaps not obscene profit, but profit never-the-less.
In nations with government-supported healthcare, the citizens enjoy better healthcare than ours. No one is bankrupted by medical care (62% of American bankruptcies), no one dies from lack of access to health care (versus 17,000 Americans a year.)
My parents raised three kids with all the knocks (and pre-vaccination) diseases, broken bones, and even a congenital condition, back when Blue Cross and Blue Shield were non-profits.
I look back on those years, compare them to the health insurance industry now, and know that my family would have been bankrupted and broken several times over in our current system.
While wingnuts equate healthcare to toys.
Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 6:45pm
Howard Dean hosting for Keith Olbermann on MSNBC tonight!
In three minutes, from this post!
Posted by judybrowni at 07/28/2009 @ 6:58pm
You continue to ignore reality. Remember, Bush tried to at least get the ball rolling on SS reform but the left had a cow over it.
Posted by fram at 07/28/2009 @ 12:52pm | ignore this person | warn this person
SS reform under Bush...private accounts tied to the stock market...a market that subsequently dropped more than 50 percent? Unbelievable that anybody with an ounce of intelligence or concern would consider this "reform."
Posted by jarshadow at 07/28/2009 @ 7:12pm
market that subsequently dropped more than 50 percent? Unbelievable that anybody with an ounce of intelligence or concern would consider this "reform."
Posted by jarshadow at 07/28/2009 @ 7:12pm
You hit the nail on the head. Most if not all of the right wing brainwashed folks probably couldn't add up to an ounce of intelligence put together let alone by themselves. LOL
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/28/2009 @ 8:19pm
It's not the doctors nurses or even the microbiologists working for the big pharmaceuitcals making all the money...it's the damned insurance execs, hospital administrators and pharmaceutical execs and salespeople. That's a handful of people causing the rest of the nation great agony. If anyone deserves to lose their jobs, it's those folks. They've been screwing the rest of us for far too long.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/28/2009 @ 4:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Don't forget the "escorts" of Congress doing the bidding of their health care lobbyist "pimps."
Posted by jarshadow at 07/28/2009 @ 8:41pm
Agree with this person's remark.
It is this cowardice of always selecting the lukewarm middle way and pleasing the higher economic end of their audience that looses the Democrats to nothing.
It is not about being or appearing lefty, perceptions finally are only transient, it is only the final results that speak for themselves. It is about making an historic reform for future generations that will include, as part of the system, the public option. It has the potential to be as historic as the Social Security bill.
Think really hard blue dogs!
Posted by Frank42 at 07/28/2009 @ 10:52pm
Some people are actually reading the bill which Reid and the Demoncrat congress refuses to do! They say just vote for it!
Pg 22 of the HealthCare Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self- insure!!
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOV'T COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you can get
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!
Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non -US citizens, illegal or otherwise
Pg 58HC Bill - Gov't will have real-time access to individual finances and a National ID Healthcard will b issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Gov't will have direct access to your bank accounts for electtronic funds transfer
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Gov't is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Gov't control.
PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Gov't mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specific for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Gov't will ration your Healthcare!
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Gov't mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation illegal aliens
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Gov't will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up indivuals for Gov't HC plan
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans. #AARP members - Your Health care WILL be rationed
-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indivuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:02am
.PG 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOV'T on price- fixing. No "judicial review" against Gov't Monopoly.
PG 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors- The Gov't will tell YOU what you can earn. Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for healthcare for part-time employees AND their families.
Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with payroll of $400,000 and above who does not provide public option. pays 8% tax on all payroll. (Public Option is the Government Plan)
pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $ 251,000 and $ 400,000 who dont provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll
Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Gov't will be taxed 2.5% of income
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NON-RESIDENT Alien is exempt from indivual taxes. (Americans will pay)
Pg 195 HC Bill -Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL American's financial and personal records
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" (Yes, it says that)
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Gov't will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low- income, and the poor affected
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same
PG 253 Line 10-18 Gov't sets value of Doctor's time, etc. Literally value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Gov't mandates and controls productivity for private HC industries
PG 268 Sec 1141 Federal Gov't regulates rental and purchase of power -driven wheelchairs
PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:03am
Page 280 Sec 1151 The Gov't will penalize hospitals for what Gov't deems unnecessary and preventable readmissions.
Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission and the Gov't will penalize you.
Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Gov't tells Doctors. what and how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Gov't is mandating that hospitals cannot expand
pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can you say ACORN?!!
Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Gov't mandates establishment of outcome- based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing
Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Gov't has authority to disqualify Medicare Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Gov't plan
Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Gov't will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! (What is supposed to happen to them??) Pg 379 Sec 1191 Gov't creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Committee.
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Gov't mandates Advance Care Planning Consultation. Think Senior Citizens end -of- life
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Gov't will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Gov't provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Gov't mandates program for orders for end of life. The Gov't has a say in how your life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advanced care planning consultation" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:05am
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from Government !!'
Posted by BigPasture at 07/28/2009 @ 10:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Gov't will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
Pg 469 - Community- Based Home Medical Services. Non -profit organizations Hello, ACORN Medical Services here. Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED Organizations....Monthly payment to a community-based organization. Like ACORN?
PG 489 Sec 1308 The Gov't will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Gov't into your marriage
Pg 494-498 Gov't will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, rationing those services
Maybe, just maybe Max Bacus can READ the bill against the advice of Reid and Pelosi and he wants to keep his job!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:08am
There is a clear and concise account of some of the freedom and liberty you will be losing forever!
1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs
3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage
4. Freedom to keep your existing plan
5. Freedom to choose your doctors
Sure, I can understand just why the Obamanation that makes desolation and the Demoncrats did not want ANYONE to know what they were doing, just like the Porkulus $787,000,000,000 spending bill rewarding their banking and wall street friends and contributors to the DNC!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:11am
Yesterday, CBO confirmed that the House bill would do even more fiscal damage in its second ten years. Here's the crucial paragraph, from a letter sent by CBO director Doug Elmendorf to the four Ranking Republicans on the key House committees:
The net cost of the coverage provisions would be growing at a rate of more than 8 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; we would anticipate a similar trend in the subsequent decade. The reductions in direct spending would also be larger in the second decade than in the first, and they would represent an increasing share of spending on Medicare over that period; however, they would be much smaller at the end of the 10-year budget window than the cost of the coverage provisions, so they would not be likely to keep pace in dollar terms with the rising cost of the coverage expansion. Revenue from the surcharge on high-income individuals would be growing at about 5 percent per year in nominal terms between 2017 and 2019; that component would continue to grow at a slower rate than the cost of the coverage expansion in the following decade. In sum, relative to current law, the proposal would probably generate substantial increases in federal budget deficits during the decade beyond the current 10-year-budget window.
Yea, I think Max Bacus and the Blue Dogs choked when they read that too!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:19am
At the very least we should be able to expect that Senators and Congressmen will put off a vote on any health care reform until they go home on recess and listen to their constituents. Also, would it be too much to ask that each and every Senator and Congressman, (with the exception of Robert Byrd and maybe Ted Kennedy), actually read the damn bill before voting on it. This is unbelievable.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:37am
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 12:08am
Your equations are hardly accurate doorknob.
This particular government healthcare plan doesn't include aliens nor does it have anything to do with acorn you rethug talking point parrot.
You truly do fear real competition which leads me to believe that either you are being paid to throw out your moronic rantings or are just plain stupid. The high cost of insurance is what is driving health care costs through the ceiling. You talk about malpractice lawsuits, who's making money off the malpractice insurance? It sure as hell ain't the docs or the patients. It's insurance jackasses. So, once again, either you are paid to throw your drivel out here or you are a completely brainwashed idiot.
The only other option could be that you are Rush Limbaugh? I swear I can hear you smacking your lips over your fried chicken to be mixed with your drug cocktail after dinner. LOL
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 07:00am
While the Left complains that "Max Baucus is selling us out"...
the Right better watch Chuck Grassley.
I have a feeling his hit on Sotomayor in yesterday's Judiciary vote was merely some red meat to keep the hounds at bay for when...
he cuts a deal with Baucus and gets a health care bill out of the Senate.
While the Left may not like it as "not enough"...the Right is going to HATE "handing Obama and the Dems a victory"....which ANY health care bill will be. It's guarenteed to bolster Obama's approvals and put a notch on his belt and while helping Senate Repubs in 2010....it's going to hurt their House colleagues at the same time.
"The Nation" may complain that Baucus is "pulling the rug out from under real health care reform"....but Grassley is building a tiger pit in the floor for conservatives.
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 08:13am
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 07:00am |
Naaahhh....Limbaugh more coherent, if just as wacky. (Plus, rumors that even Rush doesn't believe everything he says).
RIO/Big Posture an old Okie and sneaking suspicious that "Mrs. RIO" done r-u-n-o-f-t with a "Demoncrat"....heheh
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 08:16am
RE: Big Pasture
Schizophrenia (SCZ) (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality. Distortions in perception may affect all five senses, including sight, hearing, taste, smell and touch, but most commonly manifest as auditory hallucinations, paranoid or bizarre delusions, or disorganized speech and thinking with significant social or occupational dysfunction. Onset of symptoms typically occurs in young adulthood,[1] with approximately 0.4–0.6%[2][3] of the population affected. Diagnosis is based on the patient's self-reported experiences and observed behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_schizophrenia
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 08:32am
".just noticed the ABUNDANCE of polls that are against this plan "
because the plan is (yet another) give away to the insurance companies. no public option. no requirement for employers to provide coverage.
that's why polls are going down, not because the plan is too "socialistic".
maasch, you are WAY wrong on this one.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 10:54am
".just noticed the ABUNDANCE of polls that are against this plan "
because the plan is (yet another) give away to the insurance companies. no public option. no requirement for employers to provide coverage.
that's why polls are going down, not because the plan is too "socialistic".
maasch, you are WAY wrong on this one.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 10:54am
"Ask your congressman if he READ the bill before he decided to vote for it.."
they have numerous staffers to read it for them.
duh!
maasch, ever visited the capitol? done any reading on government? or are you too busy flying to china and reading crappy chipotle, farting up the cabin?
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 10:56am
"and no need for a govt hack in the deal."
yeah, just an insurance hack, who's job it is to deny as much coverage to you as possible, while constantly raising the price.
oh, i'm sorry? you didn't THINK about that one? that maybe insurance companies don't exactly have your best interest in mind? oh, i'm sorry. so sorry.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 10:58am
"that's why polls are going down, not because the plan is too "socialistic". "----Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 10:54am
Actually, DD, you can't prove that anymore than Maasch can prove his contention.
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 11:04am
SS reform under Bush...private accounts tied to the stock market...a market that subsequently dropped more than 50 percent? Unbelievable that anybody with an ounce of intelligence or concern would consider this "reform."
Posted by jarshadow at 07/28/2009 @ 7:12pm
bush knew the fan was gonna be hit; big ben told him so.
so, he wanted to get that through in time to keep the markets up for another year or two so his cronies (as opposed to the OTHER cronies) could hold on to power.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 11:08am
mask, i can make a better case.
americans aren't suddenly opposed to single payer, or to a public option, because it's "scary big government takeover" or because it "will cost too much". it ALREADY cost too much. everyone knows it, except the super-luxury-comfortable capitalist assholes (like maasch and limbaugh, mr. $50 million a year)
americans have always wanted government healthcare. always. since the very first moment it was thought of.
the reason the polls are going down is because:
a) the bill is losing steam
b) the blue dogs and the GOP and the industry are spending millions to defeat any public option
c) the industry is lining the pockets of the VERY PEOPLE WHO ARE DECIDING ON IT
and NOT because americans are suddenly uninterested in single payer or public option.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 11:18am
remember mask,
these are the same people who were frightened into electing bush for the 1.7th time in 2004.
america, beware of shona holmes.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 11:30am
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 11:18am: "americans have always wanted government healthcare. always. since the very first moment it was thought of."
Just because you have always felt that way does not mean anything near a majority of Americans do. Just reading the long list items using the word "shall" (I believe aroud 1000 times in the thousand page bill) turns most people off.
Posted by pyeatte at 07/29/2009 @ 11:33am
pyeatte,
it is a fact that a majority of americans have demanded government healthcare since it was ever proposed.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 11:37am
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 11:18am
DD, you still didn't make your case. Saying "Congress is in the pocket of Big Insurance"...doesn't relate to "public support is dropping because it's not a public option."
Two different matters.
Can you prove that public support is dropping because it's not a public option/single-payer plan?...with data?
If not, it's an identical, if mirror-image version of what Maasch said.
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 12:03pm
"Can you prove that public support is dropping because it's not a public option/single-payer plan?...with data?"
i cannot right now prove with data.
but, it's fairly obvious what is happening. the industry is paying people, and running ads, to scare the shit out of americans.
the GOP is deliberately stalling to kill the bill, and they have admitted that for weeks now.
the blue dogs are basically repubs on this issue.
and the capitalists are terrified of losing power and money.
and the polls are a reflection of the general confusion that all of this has caused.
the GOP keeps saying the same stupid things over and over again:
*there will be rationing (there already is)
*it will cost too much (it already does)
*people will die (they already are)
we ALREADY HAVE government healthcare, and people who have it, want it.
single payer is the ONLY way to avert a meltdown of this country.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 12:23pm
And you are surprised at the state of our country?
Posted by YourJomamma at 07/28/2009 @ 3:21pm
Actually no, I am not surprised at the state of our country. We've been conservative in this country waaaaay too long and look at where it's gotten us. Your side was in the position of power which brought us to this sad state of affairs since Reagan's tax cuts in 1981. That, and the MASSIVE expansion of the military-industrial complex since the 80's is directly due to Republican influence and power. It's taken us thirty some-odd years (sorry that I don't have my Chinese calculator in hand at the moment to do the math I am too stupid to do in my head), for our country to get to this point. I point the finger (not saying which one) at your side and the spineless Dems who went along with it for all those years.
1. Trickle down never trickled down. 2. Deregulation made everything unregular, including the f'ed up health care system we are all currently forced to deal with. One might say that a laxative is necessary to relieve the national conservative constipation. 3. The dumbing down of America was primarily due to the fact that Republicans (and their corporate masters) don't want an educated populace. "No Child Left Behind" was a laughable joke...ask ANYONE in education. An educated populace tends to be more liberal (or independant) in their thinking and asks uncomfortable questions of its government. Not good for a party that recently looked for a permanent majority. 4. The newsmedia has morphed into edu-tainment, which also doesn't allow for critical thinking. Here we are more worried about Obama's birth certificate than fixing a national health care crisis. I blame Faux-News and Lou (born in Mexico but hates Mexicans) Dobbs.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/29/2009 @ 12:52pm
uh oh, you insulted st. ronnie.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 1:00pm
"i cannot right now prove with data.
but, it's fairly obvious what is happening..."----Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 12:23pm
Maasch can say the same thing, can't he?
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 1:19pm
From the Wall Street Journal this morning:
""The health insurance industry is one of the most regulated industries in America," said Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) on the Senate floor Monday. "They don't need to be 'kept honest' by the government."
From the Los Angeles Times, reporting on Congressional hearings last month:
The documents show, for instance, that one Blue Cross employee earned a perfect score of "5" for "exceptional performance" on an evaluation that noted the employee's role in dropping thousands of policyholders and avoiding nearly $10 million worth of medical care.
WellPoint's Blue Cross of California subsidiary and two other insurers saved more than $300 million in medical claims by canceling more than 20,000 sick policyholders over a five-year period, the House committee said....
The committee investigation uncovered several rescission practices that one lawmaker called egregious, including targeting every policyholder diagnosed with leukemia, breast cancer and 1,400 other serious illnesses. Such investigations involve scouring the policyholder's original application and years' worth of medical and pharmacy records in search of any discrepancies. "
Nothing to see here, move on.
http://tinyurl.com/lgnndl
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 1:31pm
uh oh, you insulted st. ronnie.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 1:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Any chance I get, FZ, any chance I get.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/29/2009 @ 1:35pm
it is a fact that a majority of americans have demanded government healthcare since it was ever proposed.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 11:37am
Nonsense.
What is being proposed is the final nail in the nation's bankruptcy.
People like myself who choose not to have healthcare will be fined by the govt for not having it. Is that liberty?
Small business owners like the man yesterday who repaired my car will be penalized 7% of their earnings because he cannot afford to give his 2 employees healthcare under the Democratic proposal. He is furious like most small business owners that govt is just adding one more thing to make it difficult if not impossible to stay in business. Add to it what the idiots in California are doing to businesses, and it is almost impossible for the average person to continue.
Posted by antisocialist at 07/29/2009 @ 1:35pm
""The health insurance industry is one of the most regulated industries in America," said Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) on the Senate floor Monday. "They don't need to be 'kept honest' by the government."
There's never any shortage of liars.
Posted by jarshadow at 07/29/2009 @ 1:36pm
BREAKING - WAXMAN GETS A DEAL - markup restarts @ 4
"Some comprimises on various excemption levels, but looks okay. Looks like getting under $1 trillion was key. Public option is still included but also options on co-ops.
The blue-dogs will also not stand as a group when voting.
The Blue Dogs also succeeded in cutting $100 billion from the overall cost of the bill, bringing the total price tag under $1 trillion. The legislation will now exempt small businesses with a payroll greater than $500,000 from paying for any government-sponsored health coverage - double the $250,000 in the initial draft.
Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) has cut a deal to reconvene his committee and vote on the Democrats' sweeping health care bill, with a goal of completing work by the time lawmakers leave town for the summer on Friday.
There won't be a vote before the full House before the August recess, but the committee breakthrough – after tense negotiations with Blue Dog Democrats – is a significant step for the Democrats.
"After two weeks of very long and intense negotiations, I'm proud to report that we've reached an agreement that will allow health care reform to move forward," said Arkansas Rep. Mike Ross, a top negotiator for Blue Dog Democrats on the Energy and Commerce Committee.
Some more info on co-ops.
The new version of the bill also has a breakthrough on the concept of health care "co-ops," seen by some as an alternative to a public plan. States would be allowed to create co-ops for residents to buy private insurance. But the Waxman-Ross deal will also keeps the "public option" of government-sponsored health care. "
http://tinyurl.com/mnrezd
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 1:36pm
The August Plan to secure the Public Option -- ACTION!
Are you all talk, or will you take action?
That is the question:
http://tinyurl.com/lhj6nv
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 1:40pm
oh, now some idiot is saying his liberties are threatened by a public care option, but not by the ridiculous expansion of our military power around the globe?
the hypocrisy couldn't be more blatant.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 1:46pm
The Senate Finance Committee Regulates Lead Paint
The time: somewhere in the past. The place: a stuffy office inside the Hill. The lead paint industry is in hot water because of all the problems associated with lead paint; there has been a huge public uproar. There's going to be legislation. Luckily, the lead paint industry has great lobbyists.
Senator: "Golly, Mr. Lobbyist, people are really pissed off with your lead-based paint. We're thinking we're going to have to regulate it to remove the lead, or at least reduce the amount of lead in it or something."
Lobbyist: "Well, you could do that... but that would interfere with the free market."
Senator: "Good point. Well, we're all about being fair to the marketplace here. What do you propose we do instead?"
Lobbyist: "For starters, I think it should be a law that everyone must buy lead paint every year."
Senator: "Why, that's brilliant! Let's f---ing do it! Problem f---ing solved!"
Lobbyist: "And there's rumor that the government is going to start making paint without lead so people won't get poisoned so often. We don't think we could compete against that without it cutting into our profits, since everyone would want non-leaded paint instead, so you should ban it."
Senator: "Fantastic!"
Lobbyist: "Oh, and my friends in the paintbrush industry are alarmed that people might be getting their paintbrushes for half the usual price in other countries, so you should ban importing paintbrushes so that Americans have to pay the American price."
Senator: "Of course, consider it done! What a spectacular reform effort this will be, the public will love it! Anything else?"
Lobbyist: "At least this way if we're going to have lead paint reform, it will be bipartisan."
http://tinyurl.com/nzsv4d
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 1:52pm
The high cost of insurance is what is driving health care costs through the ceiling. You talk about malpractice lawsuits, who's making money off the malpractice insurance? It sure as hell ain't the docs or the patients. It's insurance jackasses. So, once again, either you are paid to throw your drivel out here or you are a completely brainwashed idiot.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 07:00am | ignore this person | warn this person
The only brainwashed idiot I see is the one who refuses to see the headlines over the past ten years where malpractice lawsuits (from whom the ABA obtains the lions share of its income) are putting Insurance companies OUT OF BUSINESS totally in a large number of states leaving the medical profession unable to obtain coverage! 17 went bankrupt in Fla. alone! (must have been those profits)
How do you practice medicine w/o malpractice insurance being available or if it is the cost is too high due to the greedy legal profession ?
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 1:59pm
Flashback: Republicans Opposed Medicare In 1960s By Warning Of Rationing, ‘Socialized Medicine'
Tomorrow is the the 44th anniversary of Medicare, a government-sponsored health care program that provides health coverage to virtually all of the nation's elderly and a large share of people with disabilities. While Medicare is not without its problems, it has dramatically improved access to health care, allowed seniors to live longer and healthier lives, contributed to the desegregation of southern hospitals, and has become one of the most popular government programs.
At the time, conservatives strongly opposed Medicare, warning that a government-run program would lead to socialism in America:
Ronald Reagan: "[I]f you don't [stop Medicare] and I don't do it, one of these days you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free." [1961]
George H.W. Bush: Described Medicare in 1964 as "socialized medicine." [1964]
Barry Goldwater: "Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink." [1964]
Bob Dole: In 1996, while running for the Presidency, Dole openly bragged that he was one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965. "I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare . . . because we knew it wouldn't work in 1965."
Despite Medicare's success and the unrealized fears of its detractors, Republican lawmakers are still regurgitating the claim that Medicare would create a "Soviet-style model" of health care.
http://tinyurl.com/mcjyyu
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 2:11pm
oh, now some idiot is saying his liberties are threatened by a public care option, but not by the ridiculous expansion of our military power around the globe?
the hypocrisy couldn't be more blatant.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 1:46pm
Enlighten us Darla if you can clear your head.
If you take away my liberty to choose whether I want healthcare or not, and you punish me financially for that choice, is that not reducing my liberty?
The use of our military power to maintain our liberty does not reduce my liberty in any form or manner.
But then logic is not your strong suit is it?
Posted by antisocialist at 07/29/2009 @ 2:14pm
Conrad's Co-ops Plan Is Worthless
I previously wrote how you would be able to tell if Conrad's co-ops proposal is worthless. The point of the public plan is to provide strong competition for the for-profit health insurance companies. Competition would steal some of their customers and drive down their profit margins. Real competition would be bad for their corporate bottom line.
Yesterday, following reports that the Senate Finance Committee might embrace Conrad's co-ops as a replacement for the public option, stock prices of for-profit health insurance companies soared. From Reuters: The S&P Managed Health Care index of large U.S. health insurers closed 6.5 percent higher.
Aetna rose 12.6 percent, Coventry was up 12.7 percent and Cigna was 7.7 percent higher, all on the New York Stock Exchange. Centene rose 7.9 percent.
It is clear that the people who have billions invested in health insurance believe that Conrad's idea of a loose association of co-ops simply will not provide strong competition. They believe it would not drive down the cost of premiums for average Americans and will not hurt the massive profits of the insurance companies. Wall Street has spoken, Conrad's "alternative" is worthless compared to a real public option.
http://tinyurl.com/lncrq8
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 2:14pm
TIME Health-Care Poll: Americans Support Obama's Reform Goals
Forty-six percent of respondents said it was "very important" that Congress and the President pass major health reform in the next few months, and an additional 23% said it was "somewhat important." Only 28% found the immediate effort either not very or not at all important.
In a separate question, more Americans said it would be better to pass "major reform" to health care (55%) rather than "minor adjustments" (43%).
On the details of the plan, respondents remained supportive of many of the rough outlines of the health-reform effort as originally described by President Obama.
Sixty-three percent said they would support providing health-care coverage for all Americans, even if the government had to subsidize those who could not afford it.
Fifty-six percent said they supported a "public health insurance option" to compete with private plans. Fifty-seven percent support raising taxes on those with annual incomes over $280,000 to pay for the plan.
Eighty percent said they would support a bill that required insurance companies to offer coverage to anyone who applies, even those with pre-existing medical conditions.
http://tinyurl.com/njld27
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 2:21pm
Schizophrenia (SCZ) (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality.
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 08:32am | ignore this person | warn this person
judybrownimaker, we pity you, but a leftist political blog is no place to air your personal problems that are extremely overtly obvious! Seek professional help while you still can!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 2:28pm
Schizophrenia (SCZ) (pronounced /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/), from the Greek roots skhizein (σχίζειν, "to split") and phrēn, phren- (φρήν, φρεν-; "mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by abnormalities in the perception or expression of reality.
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 08:32am | ignore this person | warn this person
judybrownimaker, we pity you, but a leftist political blog is no place to air your personal problems that are extremely overtly obvious! Seek professional help while you still can!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 2:29pm
The second post is for your other personality!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 2:31pm
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 2:31pm
Okay, gotta give props were props are due...
RIO made an actual funny there!
Posted by Mask at 07/29/2009 @ 2:39pm
"The use of our military power to maintain our liberty"
notable hilarity: "to maintain our liberty"
i can't think of anything more ridiculous than that.
yes, a military base in germany "maintains our liberty"
the privatization of our military "maintains our liberty"
the invasion and occupation of non-threatening countries "maintains our liberty"
INSURANCE companies, on the other hand, always and forever buttress and expand our "choices"
yes, of course. it's always about liberty, even when every other western, industrialized country provides all of the available, empirical data we have to argue that single-payer systems neither threaten liberties, nor bankrupt governments.
but, even in the face of said data, the fraudulent christian continues to cling to the fallacy that an extremely tepid congressional "compromise" to minimally lower health care costs betrays the intentions of the "founding fathers"
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 2:45pm
america is a stupid country. it constantly brags about being #1, but yet can't even provide healthcare to all americans, while still paying MORE than every other country.
and people who are scared of tax increases to pay for it?
you STILL end up paying more (in taxes) to pay for it under our current system.
oh, but they don't want to talk about.
nor do they want to talk about how we already HAVE public health for:
veterans
seniors
children
does the fraudulent christian believe that veterans health care is "unconstitutional"? after all, they are DEFENDING YOUR LIBERTIES, asshole!
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 2:49pm
...the blue dogs are basically repubs on this issue. ..... Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 12:23pm
Darla, You're onto something there. The only thing is that the "blue dog democrats" are actually republicans. They are moderate repubs which is what the party once was until Ronnie came unto thee with his moral majority crap.
The bluedogs are true "conservatives" and don't want to put any money into any type of federal program. They are all about shrinking government....just not completely destroying it like their far right republican counterparts. As it stands, the republicans believe that the government should be there to serve businesses and to hell with the workers.
The dem party is supposed to stand for the working class folks, but has been catering to the bluedogs who in truth are rethugs. In reality, there isn't a working class party. Big business has theirs, but workers only have the unions which of course big business and their lobby groups have just about destroyed.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 2:53pm
The use of our military power to maintain our liberty does not reduce my liberty in any form or manner.
But then logic is not your strong suit is it?
Posted by antisocialist at 07/29/2009 @ 2:14pm
OK Liv. How about this. What is a governments responsibility? Is not the welfare of IT"S CITIZENS it's responsibility?
Iraq didn't attack us and as a matter of fact, neither did Afghanistan and yet here we are funding two fronts in countries that are no threat to us. With the money we've spent on those wars as well as defense contracting to produce those wars, we could have solved the health care crisis quite easily.
Which side are you on exactly? You claim you have children and grandchildren living in this country right? What about their future? Are you really more concerned that some asshole executive insurance marketing weinerhead collects his smooth 10 million a year so little Peggy Sue will have to go without here cancer treatment? Multiply that by the numbers of weinerheads in these companies making that kind of money on top of a handful of blue chip stock holders and you'll see that the system as is is only serving a handful of folks and screwing the rest.....and unless you have money coming out of your ears, you're one of the ones being screwed....you're just not smart enough to know you've been bent over the barrel most of your life.
So, is liberty giving people the choice to work 3 jobs to survive or die? If that's liberty, perhaps we need to reconsider the purpose of our government and system it presently is aiding and abetting.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 3:11pm
Any chance I get, FZ, any chance I get.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/29/2009 @ 1:35pm
no need.
his legacy does it for him.
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 3:24pm
GOP: We hate public insurance, but love Medicare
"Here's Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN), Chairman of the House Republican Conference, appearing on Andrea Mitchell's MSNBC show earlier today:
Transcript:
PENCE: This is not a deal that will go over well with the American people. They understand what a governmentment run insurance plan will mean.
PENCE: A government run insurance option that the President's insisted on is going to amount to a government takeover of our health care economy.
PENCE (challenged by Andrea Mitchell on support for Medicare): Oh, no, I support Medicare, and have supported the program.
Do the Republicans have any idea just how stupid they sound when they simultaneously attack the idea of government health insurance and lavish praise on the largest government health insurance program in the nation? (And do the BaucuCon Dems have any idea how futile it is to try and negotiate with these fools?)"
http://tinyurl.com/nmzdub
Posted by judybrowni at 07/29/2009 @ 3:26pm
nor do they want to talk about how we already HAVE public health for:
veterans
seniors
children
does the fraudulent christian believe that veterans health care is "unconstitutional"? after all, they are DEFENDING YOUR LIBERTIES, asshole!
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 2:49pm
As I've explained Darla on countless times, veterans receive health care for military service related injuries. They can access the VA medical services for non service related needs, but must submit to financial qualification. If at poverty levels, they get care like Medical through VA. Above that level they pay according to their financial ability. In other words, if you can pay, you pay the full cost of the service.
I speak from experience and carry my Veterans Universal Access Identification card for emergencies, even though I haven't used their services in many years. I don't even use them any more for my service related injuries even though I could at no charge.
Posted by antisocialist at 07/29/2009 @ 3:44pm
antisocialist, you lost that one, plain and simple.
the government provides health care to: kids
seniors
vets
PERIOD.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 3:53pm
How do you practice medicine w/o malpractice insurance being available or if it is the cost is too high due to the greedy legal profession ?
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 1:59pm
Give us the numbers on how these insurance companies were crushed by the frivolous lawsuits that broke them. The laws are on the side of the doctors, hospitals and of course the insurance companies.
Even the Supreme Court sides with big business the lions share of the time when peoples' rights versus business acquisitions come into play. Just read some of Justice Scalia's anecdotes and you know who owns his ass.
Also, all lot of the greedy legal professionals work for the very insurance companies, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies that are hosing everyone over.
Also, if you practice medicine, you should be qualified and competent enough to where you won't be sued. In a lot of cases, lawsuits take place due to negligence or worse yet, overworked staff who are too tired because the hospital administrator cuts the staff back to "MAKE THE HOSPITAL MORE PROFITABLE".
Medicine for profit sucks. End of story. The government loses money for national defense, and it should lose money for health and education. Perhaps if they need to balance the books, take some of the friggin money going into defense to pay for the others.
So far, we've seen not one cent of defense spending cuts (the F-22 is being replacement by another fighter so that's not a cut, just a change what is being paid for).
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/29/2009 @ 4:01pm
antisocialist, you lost that one, plain and simple.
the government provides health care to: kids
seniors
vets
PERIOD.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 3:53pm
You ignore your own argument.
<does the fraudulent christian believe that veterans health care is "unconstitutional"? after all, they are DEFENDING YOUR LIBERTIES, asshole!
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 2:49pm>
And to carry the argument further. Veterans healthcare, when provided for service related injuries is a result of a contract for services rendered. The veteran signed up as part of their compensation to receive this care if needed for injuries received in service to the country.
Now if you want everyone to enter into an employment agreement with the govt in which they agree to work for below minimum wage, surrender their freedom of movement, of where to live and work, to agree to work for many days or weeks without any time off and perhaps days without sleep (and all without overtime pay). to wear a uniform rather than your own selection of clothing, to sleep in crowded quarters with a bunch of people you may or may not like, to have them tell you when or if you can visit your family or friends.
Is that what you really want for all Americans?
Posted by antisocialist at 07/29/2009 @ 4:12pm
antisocialist, the ultimate straw-man builder.
Posted by darladoon at 07/29/2009 @ 6:09pm
1. Shore up medicare and medicaid
2. Enact tort reform
3. Provide insurance against catastrophic illness.
4. Make it illegal for private insurers to deny claims because of so-called prior condition.
Period!
Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 10:06pm
Rep. John Fleming (R-La.) is a practicing family physician of 33 years. He is serving his freshman term in the House, first elected to Congress in late elections from the Bayou State in December of last year. Fleming currently practices medicine in Minden, La.
Last week, Fleming introduced House Resolution 615 which would oblige any member of Congress voting in favor of a government run health care bill to leave their private insurance plan and join the Democrats' "public option" boondoggle.
Any member of Congress who votes against Obamacare wouldn't be obliged to sign up for it but those who do, would. So far, Fleming told me, the entire Republican leadership has signed his Fleming pledge.
I asked him how many Democrats have signed the pledge. "Despite reaching out to the Democrats, including the Speaker, we've had no Democrats sign up for it."
"Americans know that there's a disconnect between the American people and Congress," Fleming continued. "Congress and Washington in general have become sort of a ruling elite. We have a bad habit of passing laws that subject the population to all sorts of problems and headaches, yet we exempt ourselves. So I think it's time the American people hold Congress accountable. If Congress thinks that there should be a public plan, which would effectually lead to Canadian-style/United Kingdom-style socialized medicine, then they should be the first to sign up for it."
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 10:45pm
.Since he is intimately familiar with health insurance, and having recently signed up for his Congressional benefits, I asked Fleming talked about claims Democrat members were making from the House floor yesterday that their health care bill would offer the same plans that a member of Congress gets to choose from.
"That is absolutely incorrect," Fleming said. "The public option plan is what people on Medicaid have today. Government funded, government run, government regulations, very restricted, one-size-fits-all. What we have in Congress today in the Federal Employees Benefits Plan is really an exchange. I can go on an internet site and I can choose from hundreds of private insurance plans. In fact, the private insurance plan that I'm on is Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Louisiana, which is no better, no less certainly, than any other good private plan, but it is a private insurance plan. It is not a government plan."
"To suggest that somehow Congressional members are under a government run healthcare plan, that is not the truth," Fleming said. "We enjoy private insurance and will continue to do so even under the Democrats' plan even though most of the nation will be pulled off of private insurance and onto a Medicare-style insurance program."
Now you know the truth! Not ONE Demoncrat would place his family at the mercy of the "Obamacare" health rationaing plan!!!
Posted by BigPasture at 07/29/2009 @ 10:47pm
rio,
our system is better.
why do you insist on defending rapacious insurance companies?
or do you believe that canadians are smarter?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 11:07pm
"1. Shore up medicare and medicaid"----Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/29/2009 @ 10:06pm
Specifically...how?
Posted by Mask at 07/30/2009 @ 08:29am
What is a governments responsibility? Is not the welfare of IT"S CITIZENS it's responsibility?
Wolfie, Wolfie, three times wrong in two sentences.
What is a government's responsibility? Is not the welfare of ITS CITIZENS its responsibility?
Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:44am
Posted by Mask at 07/30/2009 @ 08:29am
A good way to start would be to start would be to scrap the President's current plan, condense it to include only the four reforms I've mentioned and use the savings to put toward medicare and medicaid. Also, retract the faulty stimulus bill and put the six hundred billion saved into medicare and medicaid and an insurance plan, which everyone can pay into if they want it, to guard against catastrophic illness wipeout. This is easy.
Create legislate that would make it illegal for private and any other insurer to deny coverage because of prior condition, without loopholes.
Tort reform must be passed to save a hundred billion a year in unnessary testing and then add this as well to medicare and medicaid.
Problem solved.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 07/30/2009 @ 12:54pm
or do you believe that canadians are smarter?
Posted by frosty zoom at 07/29/2009 @ 11:07pm
I believe that the average Canadian is smarter than the average American. At least about health care. Americans are all too willing to believe the lies pouring out of the conservative side.
Insurance Companies Uber Alles!
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/30/2009 @ 12:58pm
Call Congress: Take the Pledge for the Public Option
Enough talk -- take ACTION!
http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/publicoption
Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 1:05pm
"Meanwhile, in the best news I've heard in years, Senate Democrats are making threats to Max Baucus' committee chair.
In an apparent warning to Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.), some liberal Democrats have suggested a secret-ballot vote every two years on whether or not to strip committee chairmen of their gavels [...]
"Every two years the caucus could have a secret ballot on whether a chairman should continue, yes or no," said Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), the chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee. "If the ‘no's win, [the chairman's] out [...]
Some senators suggest privately that Baucus might be more open to persuasion if his chairmanship is subject to regular votes.
Another senior Democratic senator endorsed Harkin's suggestion but declined to speak on the record for fear of angering Baucus.
"Put me down as a yes, but if you use my name I'll send a SWAT team after you," said the lawmaker when asked about a biennial referendum on chairmen.
Civil rights legislation in the 1960s didn't move forward until the House Rules Committee chair, a segregationist Southern Democrat, saw his power neutered by an expansion of the committee. Process changes often precede policy changes. Sen. Baucus, take note."
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 1:47pm
If conservatives have real arguments against health care reform, then why do they have to lie about it so much?
Bill Kristol on the Daily Show:
"One reason the price of health care is going up so fast is because of government programs. The price of Medicare and Medicaid have gone up faster than private insurance. That's well-documented."
Ezra Klein corrects him (with supporting evidence):
It is true that the growth rates of Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance are well-documented. But the documentation shows the opposite of what Bill Kristol says it shows. The price of Medicare and Medicaid have gone up much more slowly than private insurance.
Marty Feldstein in WaPo yesterday:
Obama has said that he would favor a British-style "single payer" system in which the government owns the hospitals and the doctors are salaried but that he recognizes that such a shift would be too disruptive to the health-care industry.
Jon Chait corrects him:
Obama has never said that he favors a British-style health care system. Britain does not have a single-payer system. It has a socialized system, where the government directly employs all health care providers. Indeed, if you follow the link in Feldstein's own column, it says, "A single-payer system would eliminate private insurance companies and put a Medicare-like system into place where the government pays all health-care bills with tax dollars." Does Medicare own hospitals and pay doctors government salaries? No. Professor Feldstein, please stop writing about topics you know nothing about.
It's no coincidence that Feldstein and Kristol both publish regularly on the Washington Post opinion page.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=24689
Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 2:39pm
Profits Before People
Birther Roy Blunt has been on a rampage against Medicare, saying the other day the patent lie that "Medicare has never done anything to make people more healthy," despite the millions of healthy seniors on Medicare.
The anti-Medicare argument has been taking hold in other corners, with Rep. Tom Price, chairman of the Republican Study Committee, authoring an op-ed that mostly attacks Medicare as a reason the new Republican tax health care plan is a good idea:
Going down the path of more government will only compound the problem. While the stated goal remains noble, as a physician, I can attest that nothing has had a greater negative effect on the delivery of health care than the federal government's intrusion into medicine through Medicare. Because of Washington's one-size-fits-all approach, its flawed coverage rules and broken financing mechanisms, seniors are increasingly having care rationed while federal health spending spirals out of control.
This is, as we say in Washington, bull. Medicare covers virtually the entirety of our senior population, and does it at lower cost and higher quality.
And, that bull is just about the entirety of the Republican argument against health reform it seems: No health reform, because Medicare is awful.
Of course, the plan Price is pushing isn't so much of a plan and more of a John McCain retread, with lots of talk about taxes and no new ideas for how to lower our health care costs or provide more coverage at an affordable price.
But it's good to know Price hates Medicare. That puts him at odds with 86% of seniors, people who are actually on Medicare.
http://tinyurl.com/lflmbr
Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 2:49pm
Baucus' Plan Cost Less By Doing Much Less
"Senator Baucus proudly touted what is in fact a very bad CBO score for his possible bipartisan bill. Almost everyone in the mainstream media parroted his claim that the CBO projection was, in fact, good without question. The Washington Post, Politico, WSJ, and CQpolitics all reported the "good news." If the media know basic math their reporting would be more critical.
Baucus is very proud that the CBO said his bill would be under $900 billion and "would cover 95 percent of Americans by 2015."
It is true that his bill would cost roughly 10% less than the House bill, which has a price tag just over $1 trillion. But Baucus' bill would cover 12% less uninsured by 2015. The CBO concluded the House bill would cover 97 precent of Americans by 2015. So Baucus' plan is cheaper simply because it leaves roughly 6 million more people without insurance. That is 12% of the projected number of uninsured in 2015.
On the basis of price per uninsured Americans covered by 2015, Baucus' plan is more expensive than the House bill. The CBO score does not prove Baucus' bipartisan bill is better written. It only proves it is less cost effective reform."
http://tinyurl.com/mvubym
Posted by judybrowni at 07/30/2009 @ 2:59pm
Why should Reps. Blunt and Price give a shit about Medicare? They'll have their wonderful congressional pensions. It's the same old, same old: "I've got mine, let 'em eat cake."
Posted by jarshadow at 07/30/2009 @ 3:53pm
Dear YourJomamma, you are wrong on all counts. I suspect that you are part of a blogwriting team of befuddled rightists.
Posted by delonix at 07/30/2009 @ 6:17pm
Reason has left you, YourYoMamma.
Posted by delonix at 07/30/2009 @ 6:17pm
We are like little children to think the US government works for the people or the welfare of the country.
And to think that some hick senator from a state of about 300,000 people can control the future of healthcare reform shows just what a hoax our glorified sham "democratic republic" really is.
Posted by Citizen54 at 07/30/2009 @ 7:33pm
To youryomamma and big pasture, I guess you two are so lost in your "BIG GOVERNMENT" board game that you have lost the real point. Twelve percent and higher as a percentage of gross income. That is the cost to an ever growing number of Americans for their health care. Health care pricing is the equivalent of a health care tax. Let's clap our hands for United Health. Aren't they stimulating a small amount of share holders with their record profits? Max and Chuck are quite a team in railing against a public option. What bothers me is that we have a 1000 page bill right now that smells like a lobbyist orgy. By the time Max and his pals figure how to really screw the President,the President will have finally gotten to the point of taking him, to the woodshed. The President is going to articulate his view of the situation and that is going to counter balance the huge amount of money being spent by the insurance industry. The American people are starting to wake up. They are not going to stand for the theft of their future dreams by the insurance companies. I am not going to let ignorant fools like the two of you talk without being challenged.
Posted by whatizz at 07/30/2009 @ 8:07pm
What is a government's responsibility? Is not the welfare of ITS CITIZENS its responsibility?
Posted by emile duBois at 07/30/2009 @ 09:44am
Emile, Thanks for the grammar check. I was actually in middle a circuit design issue and needed to step back from the problem at hand. I logged into TN and saw Liv's comments, quickly responded, logged out and went back to work.
Sorry about the errors in the sentence, but the questions still hold.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/31/2009 @ 03:19am
The blue dogs are anything but centrist. It's a convenient way for a few power seekers to make themselves influence brokers by exploiting swing votes. In short, it's time for the DNC to clean house. Either you're on board with helping America and supporting our democratic ideals, or you're not. The current situation is hitting people where they remember it, in the pocket book. I want representatives who dilute or vote against real medical care reform to be replaced and barred from any future DNC nomination. We don't need them. Their presence is harming the party and therefore the United States. Modern Republicans have the mental maturity of 14 year olds, if they think they can influence the process through these people, then they will.
Posted by Milhaus at 08/01/2009 @ 10:28am