Hell No

Very quickly: word from the Hill is that they are close to a deal.

I say, Hell No.

Read this, this, and this.

Short version of my thoughts:

1) There are massive systemic dysfunctions in the financial system

2) That is not the same as an imminent credit crisis.

3) The bailout deal, even as amended, may very well not work, and certainly won't be particularly equitable.

4) Vote no.

Comments (26)

1. Vote No?

   But We the People have no vote. Not before election day, by which time the trillion dollar handout will be a done deal.

   We can send all the emails we like, but expect no effect.

   Zero (above) has it nailed.

   We're in the toilet. They're in clover.

   Posted by sloper at 09/27/2008 @ 4:55pm

2. We aren't getting the full story on this bailout. I think there are more issues lurking here like overseas investor's getting nervous about the Treasury's full faith and credit promises. I think they may have issued an ultimatum to our spend and tax cut Congress and Administration. Pony up or we are out.

   Like the politicians and pundit shills say....lets pass the bill and then we can focus on the blame....

   Ass backward logic that only a politician can hope to peddle to the public.

   Vote No!

   Posted by OneVote at 09/27/2008 @ 5:12pm

3. The bailout in any of its likely configurations will completely erase any possibility of the Dems making headway on any other issue, be it health care, alternative energy, affordable housing, or whatever. Jim Lehrer kept trying to get Obama to acknowledge that, and he wouldn't.

   I have trouble believing this consequence is accidental or unwanted by the White House and its allies.

   In my more paranoid moments, I believe it is a trumped-up "crisis" designed to force the Democrats into failure before they're even elected, so the Republicans can come roaring back in 2012 with a new version of borrow-spend-deregulate dictatorship.

   What I don't understand is why Pelosi, Reid, and other Congressional leaders don't see the trap that they are walking into.

   Posted by bcazden at 09/27/2008 @ 5:46pm

4. Er, dic'tatorship, HELLO.

   INDENTURED SERVITUDE

   We had a chance 1-2 years ago.

   Later

   Too late.

   Posted by hsuBfools at 09/27/2008 @ 6:35pm

5. NO BAILOUT!! NO BAILOUT!! NO BAILOUT!! NO BAILOUT!! NO BAILOUT!! NO BAILOUT!!

   What's wrong with the freakin' democrats??

   Look at the polling numbers (that you always cite)!

   We "the people" don't want the BAILOUT!!

   I know, I know;

   "You dumbasses don't understand the problem(s) we face."

   BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT!

   Maybe, we've finally figured out the "game" and are tired of being on the losing end.

   I know this site wants to make this all the GOP's fault. Don't get sidetracked by the politics! This is wallstreet vs mainstreet! This could be a watershed moment.

   F THE BAILOUT!! F THE BAILOUT!! F THE BAILOUT!! F THE BAILOUT!! F THE BAILOUT!!

   NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO BAILOUT

   Push the $hit into the Hudson and enlarge Central Park if you have to.

   NO BAILOUT NO BAILOUT NO BAILOUT

   Let the rich politicians squirm!!

   Posted by bleedingheart at 09/27/2008 @ 9:51pm

6. I find it somewhat amusing that the broken down, poor wallstreet rebounded big time when news appeared to be on the positive side that a huge cash infusion was on it's way.

   Anybody here dare to take a bet that the people investing into the market know where the fed plans on "infusing" this cash? Ten to one says the next day, these assholes will say and collect the dividends on the fed investment!!

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/27/2008 @ 10:43pm

7. will say ...woops, meant to say sell.

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/27/2008 @ 10:44pm

8. PS - for those of you not paying attention, the Democrats used the Wall Street crisis as cover to let the offshore drilling ban expire, quietly and with little coverage. Thanks for nothing, assholes.

   Posted by Zero at 09/27/2008 @ 10:44pm

   The two party system if really the one party system with slight differences of how to run businesses. If we had real representation, they'd be shot before they could take office!

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/27/2008 @ 10:46pm

9. What I don't understand is why Pelosi, Reid, and other Congressional leaders don't see the trap that they are walking into.

   Posted by bcazden at 09/27/2008 @ 5:46pm

   Read the Shock Doctrine. You'll see what is truly gong on here. The wool has been pulled over our eyes for quite a spell. Don't feel bad though, our parents and possibly even our grandparents have been duped as well as us.

   People by themselves can be relatively intelligent, but as a mass, they are no differnt than sheep to be lead by any fool put in front of them.

   Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/27/2008 @ 10:51pm

10. People here are actually shocked that the Democrats are leading the charge on this bailout? What astounds is the fact that after the FISA and off-shore drilling cave-ins any one would expect them to do anything else. Only at blogs like this one and DailyKos would you ever find such depth of schlemeil that one might be found scratching his head over these developments. Yup, the Democrats actually ensured the quick passage of this sell-out, and you can still hear them making pious statements about taxpayers interests. There, folks, is a vision of the next four years: Just like the last four. Progressives need to vote for Nader for there to be change.

    Posted by john lowell at 09/27/2008 @ 11:32pm

11. I find it somewhat amusing that the broken down, poor wallstreet rebounded big time when news appeared to be on the positive side that a huge cash infusion was on it's way.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/27/2008 @ 10:43pm

    Get ready to see it again with the next "deal". I believe it's called a "sympathy bounce." (?) Something like that. Happens often enough that they have a name for it. Basically the market bumps up when people realize that government is "doing something"...whether or not it's helpful (usually not). Then when the big institutions have had a chance to analyze the "solution," the market will reverse or trend higher depending on the verdict.

    And btw, to whoever said they think this crisis is "trumped up"...I talked to a couple of brokers and they're concerned that this is much worse than people are letting on. His words were "depending on what they come up with, wthis could get very, very bad." Oh, boy.

    Posted by usc1 at 09/28/2008 @ 01:08am

12. OK, so 100B would pay for all the foreclosures-- so what's the other 600B+ for?

    Apparently it goes a lot further than people not affording to pay their mortgages. Funny how the rich blame the poor so often that we actually believe their shitola.

    Like the war in Iraq, billions will just disappear; more billions will be paid for no-bid stuff that never existed.

    It's the transfer of what's left of the wealth in our public coffers to the wealthiest; killing what little possibility there could've been for a strong middle-class re-emergence.

    And the richest continue to get even richer, poor poorer and the middle-class weaker.

    While what is the hsuB/cHeney dic'tatorship laugh their asses off--- having bullied a battered USA to roll over and take it up the rear this one last time, a parting gift from the new con blood sucking reptiles.

    But then again, the USA really likes it that way.

    Impeachment-- why that would've been just way too tooo messy... and could get in the way of the dem congress making any real progress.

    Yup, that sure did pan out...

    Thanks a lot for doing absolutely nothing.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2008 @ 03:12am

13. PS - for those of you not paying attention, the Democrats used the Wall Street crisis as cover to let the offshore drilling ban expire, quietly and with little coverage. Thanks for nothing, assholes.

    Posted by Zero at 09/27/2008 @ 10:44pm

    i bet reagan's pissed.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2008 @ 04:00am

14. Good work, CHRIS!

    The first two links in your article were very instructive. Small banks use deposits for lending and are not dependent on borrowing, although "interbank" borrowing should always be a last resort as bank borrowing from the Fed directly using the 2.25% current discount rate would be preferred.

    The bottom line, is that this bailout is for PARTICULAR INSTITUTIONS that have powerful lobbies in Washington, and this corruption is disguised with a broader bailout for others.

    Paulson is trying to rescue his legacy at Goldman Sachs, as he does not want to be the guy who is blamed for steering Goldman into bankruptcy. It is surprising that there aren't more stories on this OBVIOUS conflict of interest between Paulson and Goldman Sachs.

    We are used to thinking of "conflict of interest" in terms of direct or indirect "financial" conflict, but "legacy preservation" can be an equally dangerous conflict, in that poor decisions concerning taxpayer money can be made simply to protect the "private legacy" of certain individuals who are now part of government.

    Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley CAN FAIL without too much disruption to financial markets. Congress needs to pay attention to this, or they will face the wrath of the public when this all comes out.

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/28/2008 @ 10:48am

15. The market has shrugged off the failure of Salomon Brothers, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, Countrywide, AIG, and Washington Mutual.

    What makes ANYONE think that the market response to Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley failures would be any different?

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/28/2008 @ 10:58am

16. We the People have just been sold down the river by our reps.

    But they've got theirs, The Owners have nurtured their congressional assets well. And like all good honest politicians, once bought, they've stayed bought.

    So there was no time for impeachemment, they told us, too busy with ... well, excuses: health care insurance & minding the economy. Now we still have Bush & his thugs, no health care insurance, and no likelihood of universal health insurance being passed for many more years, not after this $700 billion handout. Thanks, Nancy & Barney & Christopher et al. You've served your owners well.

    You're fine, we're screwed.

    Posted by sloper at 09/28/2008 @ 11:32am

17. Fine.

    Let's have one of the no-bailout zealots describe what life is going to be like in the next few years assuming that around 10:00pm EDT, some Congress dufus comes on and says, "those darn _____ (D or R) have caused the deal to blow up, so Congress will adjourn so we can go back and talk to our constituents. We'll take up this issue in the new congress after the election."

    I just assume that no one has any money in a 401k or Roth, or pension fund?

    Posted by sntauri at 09/28/2008 @ 12:59pm

18. Yr 401K, Roth, US pension fund will enjoy a blip this coming week, and maybe the week after.

    Then you're screwed forever after, because US asset values will plummet unhindered, as most of that $700B goes into euros & swiss francs & the dollar nosedives.

    Enjoy the ride.

    Posted by sloper at 09/28/2008 @ 1:09pm

19. And now the Great Depression

    Barry Eichengreen

    28 September 2008

    The Paulson Plan, whatever its final form, will not end the crisis quickly. Unemployment will rise but will the most serious credit crisis since the Great Depression bring about a new depression? Here one of the world's leading economic historians identifies the relevant Great-Depression lessons. We won't see 25% unemployment as in the 1930s, but double digits are not out of the question.

    A couple of months ago at lunch with a respected Fed watcher, I asked, "What are the odds are that US unemployment will reach 10% before the crisis is over?" "Zero," he responded, in an admirable display of confidence. Watchers tending to internalise the outlook of the watched, I took this as reflecting opinion within the US central bank. We may have been in the throes of the most serious credit crisis since the Great Depression, but nothing resembling the Depression itself, when US unemployment topped out at 25%, was even remotely possible. The Fed and Treasury were on the case. US economic fundamentals were strong. Comparisons with the 1930s were overdrawn.

    The events of the last week have shattered such complacency. The 3 month treasury yield has fallen to "virtual zero" for the first time since the flight to safety following the outbreak of World War II. The Ted Spread, the difference between borrowing for 3 months on the interbank market and holding three month treasuries, ballooned at one point to five full percentage points. Interbank lending is dead in its tracks. The entire US investment banking industry has been vaporised.

    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/1718

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2008 @ 1:42pm

20. Looks a lot like Big Business is quickly robbing the till, with the help of the cashier and all the staff who should be minding the store!

    I guess that now that they've robbed you, they might as well rob the kids too. 'Cause guess who will be paying?

    Good luck Americans! And G-d help the rest of us too - the sucker that might go down is a global sucker these days.

    Posted by mikecope at 09/28/2008 @ 1:49pm

21. All very good comments. However…

    As evil as the system is, or is perceived to be, the unfortunate reality is that the time of SHTF is possibly here. Or as the various collapse conspiracy sites abbreviate TEOTWAWKI.

    It will interesting to see how the Left or Right Blogosphere responds to scenes of $50/lb for a bag of rice, assuming that the electricity is still on for the Internet to function.

    I can only assume the Survivalists are at a near state of joy, seeing their long feared (or hoped for) scenario come to reality. I'm not sure I would want to be living in a dense multicultural paradise when the collapse comes.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/28/2008 @ 2:34pm

22. I just assume that no one has any money in a 401k or Roth, or pension fund?

    Posted by sntauri at 09/28/2008 @ 12:59pm

    Yes, but we just now insured that the millionaires and billionaires are going to do just fine. Us, not so much-- as usual; that's been the case for the last 8 years.

    But put practically-- what if we had been able to say NO to going into IRAQ in the first place? Had proper oversight caught the hsuB/cHeney admin lies up front, we'd at least put the same pressure on our rep's as now.

    There's a good reason hsuB kept himself out of sight as long as he could on this one. That would've been the biggest tell.

    This is sooo like how we had to react AFTER 9/11 when it too was ALLOWED to happen.

    SAME DIF, NO?

    Has a brutalized USA had enough yet?

    New cons repubs should never be let any where near a political office. All they're about is fucking up the government to prove that the government is fucked up. Leave the soulless greedy little new con bas'turds in a Wall Street box or in jail-- where they all belong. With lots and lots of oversight via the cross-hairs of a high powered rifle scope. Hey, they say they want to see more discipline and they spout fear...

    I say, ultimately-- it's what they really deserve.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2008 @ 4:09pm

23. BTW:

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/search/label/today%27s%20polls

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2008 @ 4:13pm

24. I cannot believe our elected representatives are going ahead with this bailout against the will of the people. We are at crisis point indeed. We absolutely cannot let them get away with it. How bout we stop funding it? How bout we stop playing this stupid game we cannot win? How bout we stop playing games PERIOD!!!

    Posted by oneofmany at 09/28/2008 @ 4:31pm

25. After the Enron scandal people went to jail and that was for $60 billion not $700 billion!! (and if you think the cost will be what the government says it is now, that will be the first time in history of no cost over-runs) Any bail out that does not include a bunch of people going to prison will reek to high heaven and if WE THE PEOPLE do not demand that the people involved be held responsible, we get the government we deserve.

    Posted by Incoming at 09/28/2008 @ 6:15pm

26. How did this happen? madlib?

    er, UNITARY EXECUTIVE/ petty dic'tatorship is what we truly have.

    Brought to you by the previous 12 years of a pervy new con repub congressional majority.

    Proof-- now dem congressional subpoenas go totally disregarded. Our DoJ is literally a political arm of the dic'tator-- simply put, a gestapo.

    Called it years ago and got poopoohed.

    Now there lots of poopoo on 'their' faces... aye!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2008 @ 7:51pm