Community Organizers Fight Back

posted by Christopher Hayes on 09/04/2008 @ 12:56pm

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Organizers are not particularly practiced at taking things lying down.

"I have ‘actual responsibilities,'" said Jacqueline del Valle, a community organizer in the Bronx. "If Mayor Giuliani and President Bush cared more about working people instead of just people who can hire high-powered lobbyists, maybe I wouldn't have so much responsibility. Maybe working people would have an easier time in America today. But that's not our reality, and they don't have to mock us while we're trying to clean up their mess."

Also, check out Jay Smooth's spot-on response.

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Comments (55)

"It's amazing how people can get so excited about a rocket to the moon and not give a damn about smog, oil leaks, the devastation of the environment with pesticides, hunger, disease. When the poor share some of the power that the affluent now monopolize, we will give a damn."

FACTS - TRUTH '08

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/04/2008 @ 1:50pm

Funny thing to insult people who's job it is to move people to causes. Seems like a bad idea. There are "community organizers" now organizing their communities. I said when I heard that line that she just pissed off quite a few people. I guess it's start to come true. Her speech built up the right but torn down a lot of America. That was a big problem. She unified you guys but in a lot of her speech I spied line after line that would piss off most of America.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/04/2008 @ 2:01pm

Yeah, telling people working in communities "You ain't crap compared to being mayor of Wasillia, Alaska" might play with with HAPP/MAASCH/LVLIB and the gang in St. Paul....

but not so much with the REST of the country.

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/04/2008 @ 2:22pm

GOP loves brain-dead apathetic americans...you are meaningless to them.....kick these bastards, bush, mcbush, palin, cheney, rove, ALL OF THEM, the (*&) out of washington...

THEY HAVE NO PLACE TO REPRESENT ANYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY!!!!

THEY DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by jrs112 at 09/04/2008 @ 2:56pm

Posted by jrs112 at 09/04/2008 @ 2:56pm

I think CONSHAME is back.

heheh

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/04/2008 @ 3:12pm

>>>What does it cost you if you fail completely in what you want to do?

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 1:10pm<<<

The community gets run over by loan sharks, misery profiteers, union busters like Walmart, porn shops and liquor stores in a Potter's town vision of America!

Posted by Metteyya at 09/04/2008 @ 3:21pm

Posted by jrs112 at 08/20/2008 @ 3:48pm

Been researching your past posts.

CONSHAME?

Posted by Benchrest at 08/20/2008 @ 5:29pm

Posted by jrs112 at 09/04/2008 @ 2:56pm

I think CONSHAME is back.

heheh

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/04/2008 @ 3:12pm

TOLD YA Frosty!

Posted by Benchrest at 09/04/2008 @ 3:37pm

I always assumed the 'success' of the 'pro-life' movement was largely due to the ability of community organizers to effectively carry out their 'responsibilites'...I guess I was wrong

Posted by Cafeclint at 09/04/2008 @ 4:13pm

People, You misunderstood Ms. Palin, What she meant to say was those poor troubled community organizers...when they get hurt or depressed they just cling to their guns and religion...just the same as the rest of us. Besides we're all aware that this is politics and facts are just a nusance. I felt she did a very good job ,presentation wise, Now if the Damn Democrats will stop sitting on their hands and send out a stream of people to refute every single thing that everyone said from that podium last night then maybe there is a chance for this nation. If the Dems can't understand they have to shove the Rovian propaganda machine back in its hole every time it pops up they will lose this election too. and that thought kinda sickens me. This election shouldn't be close but the Republican's screaming at every TV camera they can find "Obama will raise your taxes" is going to leave this thing in the hands of Diebold again.

Posted by justaworkinstiff at 09/04/2008 @ 4:17pm

"Actual rsponsibilities" give me a break, wasn't she forced to hire a City administrator to do those actual responsibilitites? "executive" experience? I am from a small town of about 5000 I lived in another small town of 6000; and now live in a town of 60,000; I have known many mayors of small towns; most had high school educations, were hunters, could field dress a deer or squirrel, were alcoholics, some were good old boys and girls; and some lied as well as Gov. Frigid, but none were qualified to be president and none had the skill to be a community organizer. and if a community organizer fails miserbly, they probably lose their job and don't get promoted unlike this Mayor who actual did fail and was promoted. But lies just sound so good don't they. Weapons of mass destruction, yeah, yeah, that's the ticket. mission accomplished yeah, yeah that's the ticket. she lied and lied but we do love our liars, Christian family value. she was for the bridge to nowhere, she increased taxes as mayor and still took a balance city budget and left a multi-millioan deficit; oh, yeah, since she is the mother of the year of a Downs Syndrome child NOW she will be a friend to speciali needs children, however, she cut the funds to Alaska's special needs children; everything she said about Obama was a blatant lie, cheer, cheer. these are the people of the lie but hey, it works on the ignorant and the rich get richer, and the power gets more powerful and she will now be "one of them". the ignorant will vote for McSame and Paliar, but they will cry and complain about losing their homes jobs and privacy and rights. we saw how vicious and vindictive she can be but she is proud to be a pit bull cheer her on but don't fall in the pit because you too will be torn to shreds- bro n law.

Posted by ChristianLiberal at 09/04/2008 @ 4:38pm

Leading a drive that registed more than 600,000 voters seems pretty impressive to me. Isn't that about the population of Alaska, come to think of it?

Posted by cassamandra at 09/04/2008 @ 4:44pm

Posted by Benchrest at 09/04/2008 @ 3:37pm

Nobody RANTS IN ALL CAPS like ol' CONNIE.

She makes Bellatrix Lestrange look like Mary Poppins when she gets on a tear!

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/04/2008 @ 4:50pm

>>>What does it cost you if you fail completely in what you want to do? Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 1:10pm<<<

The community gets run over by loan sharks, misery profiteers, union busters like Walmart, porn shops and liquor stores in a Potter's town vision of America!

Posted by Metteyya at 09/04/2008 @ 3:21pm

Don't waste your breath, it's all about money with JoMa.

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/04/2008 @ 4:54pm

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/04/2008 @ 4:50pm

LOL!

Posted by Benchrest at 09/04/2008 @ 5:02pm

I posted a civics lesson for Sarah Palin on community organizing at the CA NOW blog: http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/09/a-civics-lesson.html

Posted by canow at 09/04/2008 @ 5:48pm

Well, if you can't stand the heat, stay the hell out of the kitchen. Posted by frankgrits at 09/04/2008 @ 6:10pm

Says the person who calls every attack on Sarah Palin unfair and sexist. Hilarious.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/04/2008 @ 6:38pm

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 5:33pm

I wonder how many murders there were in Arizona? Are you really going to hold Obama accountable for that? Should we hold McCain accountable? Hmm I wonder what kind of leadership is shown by taking orders in the military? It's essentially the same thing. Even when you are a commanding officer you are still just relaying orders you are given.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/04/2008 @ 6:41pm

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 5:33pm

I'm sorry that some of us live in cities and not in the middle of no where. Cities have higher crime rates so any place with a major city is going to have a higher crime rate. Look New York had 921 murders in 2005. California had 2,485 murders in 2005. Pittsburgh. 736. Any state with truly major cities is going to have huge crime rates. I expect you live in the boonies where crime doesn't happen but for those of us who live in major cities your statistic is transparent and that fact that you are trying to use it as some "vote against Obama" thing is laughable at best.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/04/2008 @ 6:50pm

Jom just so you know. Los angeles County alone has about 128 murders a summer.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/04/2008 @ 6:53pm

Here's ACORN's statement on this controversy.

"ACORN members, leaders and staff are extremely disappointed that Republican leaders would make such condescending remarks on the great work community organizers accomplish in cities throughout this country.

The fact that they marginalize our success in empowering low- and moderate-income people to improve their communities further illustrates their lack of touch with ordinary people. Through community organizing, people are empowered to take action to solve their own problems, develop leadership skills and make decisions that improve their lives and their communities."

ACORN has been building organizations and developing leadership among low- and moderate- income residents in neighborhoods throughout the United States for 38 years. During that time, ACORN chapters have worked individually and collectively to organize innovative grassroots campaigns on a number of critical issues. As the nation's largest grassroots community organization with more than 400,000 member families, ACORN employs 400 organizers that carry a huge responsibility of helping disenfranchised people in their communities.

In the past 10 years, ACORN has helped more than 30 million American families through our various organizing campaigns: better schools, financial justice, living wages, community improvement, immigration, healthcare, predatory lending, voter engagement and utilities.

The total monetary value of recent victorious ACORN campaigns was quantified in a 2006 report entitled, "ACORN Wins". Over the last decade, ACORN's victories amount to $15 billion, an average of $1.5 billion per year going directly into low- and moderate-income communities to help strengthen working families. (For a copy go to http://www.acorn.org/fileadmin/Reports/AC

Posted by nathanhj at 09/04/2008 @ 8:11pm

Uh.... that's it? This is the non-response we can expect from the throngs of offended "community organizers"? If that's the case, then the McCain campaign needs to push the "community organizer" throttle to the floorboard.

For those Seinfeld fans out there, the term "community organizer" is as hollow as George Castanza's "Human Fund". And the jabs at Obama for trying to pull a George Castanza on the American people is just as funny.

Here's the Seifeld clip if you've forgotten or don't get it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGGDvxC5qMc

Posted by Person at 09/04/2008 @ 9:19pm

I know, my 80 year old mother does the same for 50 years now.....

and as great as she is...her service does not qualify her for the Oval Office, nor would she be so silly as to try to convince ANYONE that it does.

I believe we need ANYONE more than risk our land to Obama at this time. He needs a job first.

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 9:59pm | And what exactly qualifies McCain to be in the Oval Office? What jobs has he had that make him such a brilliant and more experienced person? I mean, I guess it wouldn't take much since all Obama's done is volunteer in a neighborhood. It's not like he's ever done anything else or acheived anything before in his pedestrian existence.

Posted by dubbs33 at 09/04/2008 @ 11:34pm

Brilliant. You so-called "conservatives" keep making fun of influential people in local communities. Also, get McCain and Palin to talk more. You know you can't win without "energizing" your "base".

I smell Mondale. Is it a coincidence that his name starts with the same letter as McCain? Those wearing tin foil feel free to discuss.

Posted by srjenkins at 09/04/2008 @ 11:36pm

I believe we need ANYONE more than risk our land to Obama at this time. He needs a job first.----Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 9:59pm

"risk"? What will he do?

Get us in a quaqmire war that installs an IRAN-FRIENDLY government at the price of 3/4ths of a TRILLION...in DEBT and kills 4100+ GIs?

Put us SIX TRILLION in debt and runs deficits every year of his Presidency?

Do nothing about gas prices until the climb and THEN come up with an energy policy?

Play guitar while an American city drowns?

Curtail Constitutional protections?

Look into Russian leader's eyes and say "He's a good Joe"...until it's too late?

Be a TOTAL incompetent and hire the same?

Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 09:03am

After watching both at their conventions and reading through some of the policy material on their web sites here's what it boils down to for me. I simply can not afford four more years of GW Bush economic policies or his foreign policies delivered at the end of a gun. McCain may have more experience by virture of his life's story but he has not shown me he has the ability to lead. When this nation had the entire world behind us after 9/11 he jumped on Bush's band wagon and helped start the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons. I watched Bill O last night hammer Obama about "admiting he made a mistake" when will McCain admit Iraq was a mistake?

Posted by justaworkinstiff at 09/05/2008 @ 09:21am

When this nation had the entire world behind us after 9/11 he jumped on Bush's band wagon and helped start the wrong war in the wrong place for the wrong reasons.

Posted by justaworkinstiff at 09/05/2008 @ 09:21am

but everybody knows saddam was the source of the ANTHRAX!

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 09:39am

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 9:59pm

You didn't ask me, you asked someone else. Would you like ME to answer?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/05/2008 @ 09:53am

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/05/2008 @ 09:50am

you have absolutely no clue.

PLEASE. PLEASE. PLEASE.

PLEASE COMMENT ON THIS:

Here's the rate of job growth for the administrations since 1960: Kennedy-Johnson 3.27% Nixon-Ford 4.93% Carter 3.06% Reagan 2.06% Bush I 0.60% Clinton 2.38% Bush II 0.59%

<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>

by average annual GDP growth: Kennedy-Johnson -- 5.2% Clinton -- 3.6% Reagan -- 3.4% Carter -- 3.4% Nixon-Ford -- 2.7% Bush II -- 2.6% Bush I -- 1.9%

<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

SUMMARY OF RECEIPTS, OUTLAYS, AND SURPLUSES OR DEFICITS(–) AS PERCENTAGES OF GDP 1970 –0.3 r 1971 –2.1 r 1972 –2.0 r 1973 –1.1 r 1974 –0.4 r 1975 –3.4 r 1976 –4.2 r 1977 –2.7 d 1978 –2.7 d 1979 –1.6 d 1980 –2.7 d 1981 –2.6 r 1982 –4.0 r 1983 –6.0 r 1984 –4.8 r 1985 –5.1 r 1986 –5.0 r 1987 –3.2 r 1988 –3.1 r 1989 –2.8 r 1990 –3.9 r 1991 –4.5 r 1992 –4.7 r 1993 –3.9 d 1994 –2.9 d 1995 –2.2 d 1996 –1.4 d 1997 –0.3 d 1998 0.8 d 1999 1.4 d 2000 2.4 d 2001 1.3 r 2002 –1.5 r 2003 –3.5 r 2004 estimate –4.5 r 2005 estimate –3.0 r 2006 estimate –2.1 r 2007 estimate –1.8 r 2008 estimate –1.7 r 2009 estimate* –1.6 r

IT'S NOT SPAM. IT'S YOUR MONEY.

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:17am

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008

how many soldiers were killed in Chicago?

how many police?

How many civilians were killed in Iraq?

You compare apples and ball bearings.

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 10:20am

wasn't the protagonist in the Bible a community organizer? Wasn't Pilate a governor?

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 10:34am

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 10:34am

http://www.markfiore.com/what_if_0

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:44am

Can you imagine a black man with a gift of oratory, speaking of the poor and underclasses, the corruption of the ruling class and the desire to see peace in his homeland?

Would the New Right welcome Him as a Savior?

Or would they mock his life story and accomplishments?

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 11:25am

oh, wait.

Jesus was European, not a black jew with roots in a guild (union).

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 11:27am

Iraq, June 2008, dead civilians

Body of man wearing military uniform found tortured and shot in Tigris, Al-Suwaira 16 Jun

Two bodies found bound and shot in Baghdad 16 Jun

Child and policeman by roadside bombs, Rashidiya, Mosul 16 Jun

Three Awakening Council security volunteers by roadside bomb, Abu Fayadh, Buhriz 16 Jun

k10721 One shot dead by police in Samarra 16 Jun

in clashes between wanted students and police, Mosul University 16 Jun

k10718 One by roadside bomb in Iskandariya 15 Jun

k10717 Retired soldier, wife and daughter shot dead in home in Adil, west Baghdad 15 Jun

k10716 Three bodies found tortured and shot in Baghdad 15 Jun

k10715 Lawyer shot dead in his office, Al-Dargaziyah, Mosul 15 Jun

k10714 One by roadside bomb, Al-Mu'allimin, central Kirkuk 15 Jun

k10713 Policeman by suicide car bomb, Tilkeif, north of Mosul 15 Jun

k10712 University science professor shot dead in north Mosul 15 Jun

k10711 Two police shot dead in Sirj market, Mosul 15 Jun

k10710 Traffic policeman by roadside bomb, central Samarra 14 Jun

k10709 Two bodies found tortured and shot, Risafa, Baghdad 14 Jun

k10708 Man and woman by bomb in minibus, Fdheiliya, east Baghdad 14 Jun

Awakening Council security volunteer by roadside bomb in Bani Saad 14 Jun

k10706 Two by female suicide bomber, Qurat Tabba, Khanaqin 14 Jun

k10705 Policeman and brother shot dead in Sirgkhana , Mosul 14 Jun

k10717-zs1252 Daughter of dead couple 15 Jun

k10717-dz1241 Wife of dead man 15 Jun

k10715-dv1171 Adel Hussein al-Wagaa / Adel al-Waqa' 15 Jun

k10712-sv1167 Waleed Saad Al-Mawla / Walid Saad Allah al-Mouli 15 Jun

k10705-fw1157 Brother of dead policeman 14 Jun

k10699-fb1334 Son of Ahmed Tema 13 Jun

k10699-nk1203 Ahmed Tema / Ahmed Tumeh Khalaf 13 Jun

k10690-ux11

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 11:34am

Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/04/2008 @ 9:59pm

My simple answer is the one I have given many times. What has McCain done to qualify him for the Presidency? In my eyes there is nothing good enoug hto qualify you. I am voting for Obama because of what I think he can do for this country not what he has built on his resume. I see a leader in him. I see a capitulator and a dangerous threat in McCain. I don't need a resume Jom, I need a leader. McCain can advertise his noun, verb and POW all he wants. Being a POW does not qualify you to be President.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:36am

Daughter of dead couple 15 Jun k10717-dz1241 Wife of dead man 15 Jun k10715-dv1171 Adel Hussein al-Wagaa / Adel al-Waqa' 15 Jun k10712-sv1167 Waleed Saad Al-Mawla / Walid Saad Allah al-Mouli 15 Jun k10705-fw1157 Brother of dead policeman 14 Jun k10699-fb1334 Son of Ahmed Tema 13 Jun k10699-nk1203 Ahmed Tema / Ahmed Tumeh Khalaf 13 Jun k10690-ux1156 Son of dead woman 11 Jun k10687-xd1342 Ali Hussein Ali 10 Jun k10683-sc1382 Ali al-Nida 10 Jun k10672-xr1386 Mohammed Khalil Hansh 9 Jun k10672-zm1185 Abdulnoor Mohammed Noor Al-Tahhan 9 Jun k10678-xu1176 Mahmoud al-Sumaydi'e 8 Jun k10655-sx1169 Children of Awakening Council commander 6 Jun k10655-zu1370 Wife of Awakening Council commander 6 Jun k10646-bd1229 Son of Rahim al-Bidhani 4 Jun k10646-kd1200 Rahim al-Bidhani 4 Jun k10645-kb1290 Rasoul Abed Al-Halbous 4 Jun k10643-hx1209 Nephew of Nadhem Tayeh 4 Jun k10637-kz1147 Hasan al-Laythi 3 Jun k10633-eh1257 Naseh Moussa 3 Jun k10633-df1240 Dalshad Abdullah 3 Jun k10632-xf1318 Dhafir Ghanim / Dhafir Al-Ani 3 Jun k10627-db1322 Sayf-al-Din Baqi Abbas 2 Jun k10624-ec1298 Faris Younis / Fares Younes Abdul Rahman

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 11:36am

IT'S NOT SPAM. IT'S YOUR MONEY. Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:17am

Jom will NEVER admit that his party is bad for the economy. Because he's too partisan to see the truth. He's too partisan to realize that the biggest economic growth in this country was under Democrats.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:38am

Obamas qualifications:

Born a poor black child to a divorced white mom in 1961

Raised in middle America as the black son of a white mom during the early 60's

Moved to Jakarta in 67, living among The Others

one of three black students at his school in Hawaii, graduated with honors.

Employed by Business International Corporation for two years. Then he gave up what could have been a lucrative career to move to south Chicago, joined a Christian church.

Entered Harvard law, first Black president of the Law review.

After law school, Obama returned to Chicago to practice as a civil rights lawyer, joining the firm of Miner, Barnhill & Galland. He also taught at the University of Chicago Law School, one of the premier law schools in the US

During these years, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans in drafting legislation on ethics, expanded health care services and early childhood education programs for the poor. He also created a state earned-income tax credit for the working poor. And after a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

Judgement: "I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U. S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

I submit that Obama is a strident example of the American Dream come true. But, Jomama would ridicule all of Obamas hard work.

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 11:48am

whoops, left out a sentence..

elected to the Il Senate in 1996. During these years...

Created and managed one of the largest presidential campaigns ever. Raised as much or more money in the shortest time of any presidential candidate. Unlike his opponent, he did not overspend his accounts, his campaign was not on the verge of bankruptcy in the middle of the race.

At some pint he was attached at the hip to the DLC, a pro-business group of centrist democrats.

VS

MCain-Feingold campaign reform, McCain- librool republican, friend and confidante' of one of the most liberal senators, Joe Moooo- Mentum.

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 12:14pm

It's amazing that Palin would say that being a Republican mayor of a small town was the same as being a community organizer. In my experience, local Republican mayors are typically obstacles to grassroots efforts to promote progressive change. They are usually entrenched in the small business community and have ambitions for higher office. Many run their local governments in an insulated manner and actually add to the workload of real community organizers.

Someone should look into Palin's record with grassroots organizations and nonprofits while she was Mayor and a City Council member. It would be interesting to see how she voted on issues of interest to grassroots groups.

Someone needs to put Palin's accomplishments as a community organizer next to Obama's. Who has done more for disenfranchised groups in their repsective communities.

I will not bother to comment on the former Mayor of NYC. His record with the poor, homeless, and minorities is well documents. His strategy during the Republican primaries was equally impressive (not).

Posted by RMS35 at 09/05/2008 @ 1:09pm

I was a community organizer year and years ago, and found it to be a difficult, underpaid (sometimes paid -- never well -- and sometimes not) and amazingly demanding type of work. If the measure of success is money, then I wasn't a personal success. However, even today, the current zoning of my old neighborhood, the community garden, the child care center, are still there, still playing their parts in the community. So is the coalition of groups that use the local primary school after hours for many activities. So are the integrated public amenities. So are many, everyday people inspired by the work we were doing. We helped make an urban area a better, friendlier, more integrated place. Others helped to fill huge gaps left by disappearing social services. Others came after us and continued that work. Not everything is about earning money, sometimes it's about social responsibility and helping to create the kind of society in which you want to live.

Posted by enzo1990 at 09/05/2008 @ 1:11pm

Frankly, this is a giant strawman. The argument isn't that there's something weak or lacking about being a community organizer. If I'm hearing it right, the actual argument relates experience directly relevant to the work that a President does. The argument is that being a community organizer is not experience which qualifies you to run a country.

Posted by Thrawn at 09/05/2008 @ 2:03pm

Isn't a president THE community organizer?

Posted by crabwalk at 09/05/2008 @ 2:09pm

Well, Obama's certainly one community organizer that knows how to flip-flop, a staple with him at this point. His latest: In an interview with Fox News he avers that the "'surge' worked beyond our wildest dreams"!! The only mistake that McCain has made so far is not offering the Vice Presidency to Obama. He'd do just as well as a Reublican, but you already knew that, didn't you? Nader for progressives.

Posted by john lowell at 09/05/2008 @ 2:46pm

Well, Obama's certainly one community organizer that knows how to flip-flop, a staple with him at this point. His latest: In an interview with Fox News he avers that the "'surge' worked beyond our wildest dreams"!! The only mistake that McCain has made so far is not offering the Vice Presidency to Obama. He'd do just as well as a Reublican, but you already knew that, didn't you? Nader for progressives. Posted by john lowell at 09/05/2008 @ 2:46pm

Uhhh. To admit that something worked better than you thought it would isn't a flip flop, it's an admission of being wrong. That was the point of the question if you bothered to actually listen to the interview. O'Reilly asked him if he was wrong on the surge and he said yes I was wrong it worked better than our wildest dreams. That's not a flip flop. Only to the unintelligent is that a flip flop. To the normal observer that is Obama saying yes I was wrong about the surge it DID work.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/05/2008 @ 3:01pm

I agree with Ccomf in that I don't think it's a "flip-flop" question; changing your mind when the facts prove you wrong indicates good sense, not lack of dedication.

What this implicates is not a "flip-flop" argument, but rather a question of judgment. Obama was convinced that the surge would fail, and he admits that this hasn't been the case. Just as people were quite willing to go after McCain because he believed his trust in the surge was misplaced, I think it's reasonable for people to give consideration to Obama's misjudgment of the situation in Iraq. I don't know that it should be decisive, but I certainly don't think it should be ignored.

Posted by Thrawn at 09/05/2008 @ 3:43pm

Well its certainly a flip-flop when the simple fact of the matter is that the "surge" hasn't worked, unless you consider that paying-off former Sunni insurgents to get them to stop fighting you is to be considered a success. The introductiom of 30,000 American military did absolutely nothing to reduce the violence in Iraq. It was the bribes to these insurgents and the stand-down of the Mahdi Army who had completed its ethnic cleansing of Baghdad by the time the troops arrived anyway that ended the violence, not the "surge". Stop paying off these Sunni's and guess what'll happened. And you and Obama call that "success beyond our wildest dreams"? If there are any dreams involved here they're yours and his. This jackass is all set to continue and to extend the violence by upping our comittment to Afghanistan and by playing dangerously a la Bush with Russia and Iran. Obama is everybit the AIPAC stephin fetchit as is the eel-like Biden. Just as did Bush, and will McCain, AIPAC will pipe and these two will dance. No change here; progressives should vote for Nader.

Posted by john lowell at 09/05/2008 @ 4:44pm

Has anyone noticed that Palin is using Ann Coulter's playbook. Is that what the pit bull remark was all about?

Posted by RMS35 at 09/05/2008 @ 5:16pm

I hope and plea that Americans will be smart and keep McCain and Palin out of the Oval office. My co-workers and I are some of the hardest working people Ive ever met. We're currently organizing a drive where we start work at 5:30AM and continue until 7pm, 8pm or like last night 9pm.... But no we dont do any work of substances.

In the words of Dennis K. "WAKE UP AMERICA"!

Posted by rauguste at 09/05/2008 @ 6:29pm

AARP, Habitat for Humanity, Peace Corps, Meals on Wheels, tutoring the children of homeless or working poor families, sheltering unwed mothers, pro-bono legal centers for the poor, shelters for victims of domestic violence, after school sports volunteers to keep youth out of trouble, faith-based programs for the elderly and the homeless, soup kitchens, and a myriad of other wonderful people who give their time and hearts to help the needy and less fortunate and make our communities a better place to live.

This Alaskan is embarrassed and angry that our governor sneered at the tireless efforts of many Americans. Charity begins at home and in your community, Sarah.

Didn't Pres. Bush bring faith-based community organizations under the government's umbrella? Didn't Obama agree with that premise, but, with modifications?

Didn't Bush/Cheney/Rove's speech writer know this?

For the record: Alaskans, on average, give more to charitable causes than other Americans. We took in more Katrina refugees and gave more money for the Tsunami victims. Our people couldn't wait to fly or drive down the AlCan Hwy. to help New Orleans and the Gulf Coast get back on it's feet after Katrina. One RV retailer drove a whole convoy of his RV inventory down there to help house people.

Palin's just another politically ambitious wannabee. A real maverick would have written her own speech! !

Posted by alaskadiva at 09/05/2008 @ 6:42pm

When Sarah Palin belittled community organizers, she was belittling herself. How could MSM let her get away with that?! I don't know anyone who volunteers in their community who was COMPLETELY INSULTED and turned her off. We who are in PTA, or Scouts, or any local group of community support are UNPAID and GIVE our time freely. Jon Stewart said "Sarah Barracuda should beware of "Joe The Shark" in upcoming debates (lol). She will be an easy mark to target. I really thought she'd "bow out" before now. It looks like they really might try to pull this one over! I can imagine Rove "behind the scenes" laughing that they put up a "hockey mom" with unwed pregnant teenager, aerial moose/wolf/polar bear hunter, library book banner, liar about selling plane on e.bay at profit (sold off e.bay at a loss), small town mayor...making bets on selling her as V.P. Let's make them lose all their bets! Obama/Biden fever will make McCain/Palin seat so hot that she won't last to election....

Posted by desertmom at 09/06/2008 @ 8:06pm

Frankly I think Palin's derision of community organizing is spot on Americana. And I think the general attitude towards community organizing is a fair representation of what this country values - or doesn't value. Either way, get used to it - we're on the downside of our empire years.

Posted by Greytdog at 09/07/2008 @ 09:50am

LiberalChristian: Gov. Frigid?? Five kids...

Posted by pyeatte at 09/07/2008 @ 6:42pm

As the State Coordinator for the Oregon State Council of PFLAG (Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) I have a ton of responsibilites... I act as a leason between our org and many others to move comunications across the state to keep leaders in both urban and rural areas up to date on legislative issues that affect our families and loved ones. I arrange for those families to visit their legislators to educate them about discrimination we and our families encounter; I plan and implement educational presentations by media, legal, religious, youth and health experts. I set the agenda for quarterly meetings to which we all travel sometimes hundreds of miles. I empower, provide materials and support for rural areas desiring to establish parent support groups and write grants for diversity outreach to communities of color who neeed support, education and advocay around issues of sexual orientation and gender idnetity. I do all this when I am not working night shift 48 hours a week as a registered nurse. THE most dedicated, productive, efffective people I know are community organizers, thank you very much!!!

Posted by terinoble at 09/08/2008 @ 04:44am

pyeatte: I was referring to her cold heart, not her hot vagina. actually I knew a pit bull who had 12 pups, ate 2 of them and ripped the throat out of a german shepard in one day. I preferred the somewhat gentle, very intelligent well trained shepard who had saved many lives as a seek and rescue dog; but the small town dog fight fans drinking Cindy's Bud, loved it and cheered the pit on when it attacked in the neighbor's yard. of course, seeing the blood is fun for some and many owners trusted their pits some much they even let their small children play with them, and cried when they ripped up the kid but some still defended their dog; don't put her to sleep she was bred to kill. when did vicious become a family value? I guess when teenage pregnancy became a Christian value.

Posted by ChristianLiberal at 09/08/2008 @ 1:18pm