Dirty Work

posted by Christopher Hayes on 05/21/2008 @ 11:38am

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First we outsourced torture to others. Now others outsource it to us!

U.S. military personnel at Guantanamo Bay allegedly softened up detainees at the request of Chinese intelligence officials who had come to the island facility to interrogate the men -- or they allowed the Chinese to dole out the treatment themselves, according to claims in a new government report.

Buried in a Department of Justice report released Tuesday are new allegations about a 2002 arrangement between the United States and China, which allowed Chinese intelligence to visit Guantanamo and interrogate Chinese Uighurs held there.

Who says the Bush Administration doesn't believe in international cooperation?

Comments (26)

Right-wing response?....

"It's not 'torture', if we do it!"

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 11:49am
You allowing comments now? How gracious of you. Care to explain your methodology relative to that process? As it is now, it looks like a monkey humping a football.

Posted by Benchrest at 05/21/2008 @ 11:50am
snopes.com:

'...The mundane explanation is that J Street was likely omitted simply because the letters I and J were often indistinguishable from each other (especially when handwritten), and in 18th century English they were still largely interchangeable. (The 1740 "New General English Dictionary" published in London had a single section for I and J, and the standard identification Thomas Jefferson used on his personal possessions was "T.I.") Having both an "I" and a "J" street would have been redundant at best and confusing at worst...'

Posted by HonestLiberal at 05/21/2008 @ 11:58am
Posted by HonestLiberal at 05/21/2008

Marlin: It's like he's trying to speak to me, I know it.

[to Squirt]

Marlin: Look, you're really cute, but I can't understand what you're saying. Say the first thing again.

"Finding Nemo"

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 1:07pm
Posted by HAPPY3 at 05/21/2008

Plus, HAPP is heavily invested in "Guongdong Province Torture Instruments Inc.".....

us poor saps should have gotten in on the ground floor, like he did!

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 1:08pm
I don't suppose any of you bothered to read the blog report?

1. The article says the Uighurs prisoners "claimed" to have been subjected to awakenings ever 15 minutes, low room temperatures, and deprival of 1 meal.

2. Do any of you realize what the ave temperatures are in Gitmo?

I was stationed there briefly. The lowest ave temp is 71 degrees.

These guys come from a region in Northwest China that has 10,000 glaciers. I doubt they were ever cold.

3. We could have just released them to the Chinese. I'm sure China with their great human rights record would have treated them so much better than us (lol).

Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008 @ 1:08pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008

So, we can discount the stories of POWs being mistreated?

Oh, good...means 1/2 of John McCain's resume' can be shot full of holes.

Thanks, Larry!

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 1:21pm
So, we can discount the stories of POWs being mistreated?

Oh, good...means 1/2 of John McCain's resume' can be shot full of holes.

Thanks, Larry!

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008

Talk about a red herring, Mask. Can't you respond to the specific argument?

Do you think that what the specific allegations they made constitute torture?

Secondly, are you equating what they charge, with beatings, broken bones, and the rest that McCain had done to him?

One of my points demonstrating their own lies was their charge of being subjected to low room temperatures for long periods of time.

Do you think that even if they were in the low temperatures of 71 degrees that you would consider that inhuman? And these guys from a very cold region of China. 71 was probably a heat wave to them.

So I'm saying that shows they are not credible. Do you have something to demonstrate to the contrary?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008 @ 1:37pm
How did this nation become so sick?

Posted by julien38 at 05/21/2008 @ 1:49pm
Do you remember when we killed 2 million Indochinese & threw away 60,000 lives of our own men ... to stop the Red Chinese from taking over ... Rusk's domino theory underpinning LBJ/McNamara/Nixon/Kissinger's war? those inhuman Red Chinese who are now our bankers ... and partners in torture. Poetic symmetry perhaps, but certainly not rational or humane ... as we expand Gitmo & build larger concentration camps (that's what they are) in Iraq & Afghanistan ... for what the US now admits in open-ended detention without charges, without trials, without POW status, all with simply US say-so. Sound familiar? So vote for McCain & get more of the same. Ditto Billary, if Bill is to be believed.

Obama, you have one hell of a job in front of you. May you continue to be as exceptional as you've proven so far. Otherwise, the US is kaput as a democratic republic in any way worth emulating, a morally toothless tiger.

Posted by sloper at 05/21/2008 @ 2:54pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008

No, no, LVLIB. If those guys are "obviously" lying about their treatment....then let's take OTHER claimants to "mistreatment in captivity" with a grain of salt too.

Or do you just have one standard....that is essentially what I first posted on this thread?

BTW, while at Gitmo, did any of the holding cells have....air conditioning? And was it possible to SET that A/C to temperatures LOWER than 72 degrees?

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 2:56pm
No, no, LVLIB. If those guys are "obviously" lying about their treatment....then let's take OTHER claimants to "mistreatment in captivity" with a grain of salt too.

Or do you just have one standard....that is essentially what I first posted on this thread?

BTW, while at Gitmo, did any of the holding cells have....air conditioning? And was it possible to SET that A/C to temperatures LOWER than 72 degrees?

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008

1. So do you think that all US prisoners of war from past wars were just liars? Is that what you really think of our military personnel from WWII, Korea, Vietnam? They are just a bunch of liars? Can we please use your quote for the upcoming presidential election?

But the Muslims as noted by ex-Muslim Amil Imani, are taught from birth to lie and the jihadists especially live by this.

They are practicing what the Quran teaches--dissimulation. Muslims are taught to lie. They lie when they have to and they lie when they don't have to, just to stay in practice.

http://www.islam-watch.org/AmilImani/IslamDummy.htm

You and the rest of the left need to finally come to grips with the Muslim doctrine of Taqiyya-deceit

Taqiyya and the Deceptive definition of Jihad:

The contemporary political meaning of jihad is clear: it is "Jihad of the sword" and not the peaceful internal struggle for spiritual improvement as their spin-doctors would have us believe. Islamic fundamentalists consider jihad to be the sixth pillar of Islam, a binding duty and integral to the faith. Claiming that Jihad is a subjective and psychological state to become a better person is taqiyya. In contemporary terms, Jihad means – HOLY WAR - against the unbelievers and it is in this context that Al Qaeda training manuals and other radical preachers use and refer to jihad.

The study of taqiyya is crucial to an understanding of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. Its use ranges from the issuing of false terrorist threats, operational and strategic disinformation issued by Al Qaeda in the form of 'intelligence chatter' for the purpose of throwing national defence groups into confusion. Terrorist in captivity resort to taqiyya during interrogation. It is most frequently used by Muslim 'spokesmen' whilst intentionally making misleading public statements concerning Islam and terrorism.

The Arabs have a story which exemplifies subtle, semantic dissimulation (taqiyya) perfectly. Legend has it that Mohammed's nephew, son-in-law and future Caliph, Ali, was sitting on a stool outside his dwelling when one of his allies ran red-faced and gasping into the village and hid in Ali's home. Perceiving that the man was being pursued, Ali promptly got up and sat on another nearby stool. A few minutes later, a group of angry pursuers ran into the encampment and asked Ali if he had seen the man they were pursuing. Ali responded with the statement "AS LONG AS I HAVE BEEN SITTING ON THIS STOOL I HAVE SEEN NO ONE"

This story demonstrates why nothing an Islamist says can be taken at face value. Every statement and utterance needs to be thoroughly analysed, or "unpacked".

Bukhari Vol 4: 269 "Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "War is deceit."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2017658/posts

For your information on the a/c:

Those cells did not have a/c in 2002 when these guys were there and questioned by the Chinese. Camp 6 is the only camp at Camp Delta with a/c and it opened long after they left there.

You look at this picture of the cell blocks and tell me if you think that the guards could manipulate the temperature.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/guantanamo/

It seems Mask that you join equally with the rest of the anti-war left in always believing the terrorists and never believing our people. How does that make you any different than the hardcore marxists here?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008 @ 6:52pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/21/2008

See, I was waiting for that...

"Muslims lie!"

Like a lot with you, all it takes is time to get the REAL story out of you!

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 8:11pm
lvliberty1

i have come to the conclusion that you are "satan" incarnate.

god help you.

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008 @ 9:44pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008

YOU have been in a bad mood for TWO days because of Luvlib. Blow him off or better yet, put him on ignore. Life is short, enjoy your blogging.

Posted by Benchrest at 05/21/2008 @ 9:49pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008

Yeah, FROS...don't take LL so seriously.

He's not really....I mean "serious" (I'm sure he THINKS he is), but the guy is part of a dying segment of American polity (if not society).

The new, younger Christians care about the environment and care less about what "gays are doing". The old preachers are dying off (Falwell) or have lost all credibility (Robertson) or have cut themselves off from the Republicans Party (Dobson).

And the old "Cold Warrior" mentality..."Nuke 'em til they glow" as a "solution" for the "Global War on Terrorism"...is dying as "Bushism" dies it's political self-induced death.

So, lighten up....LL and guys like him...just aren't that relevant anymore.

After all, it was the REPUBLICAN NOMINEE HIMSELF (John McCain) who called them "agents of intolerance"...

now that's progress, huh?

Posted by Mask at 05/21/2008 @ 10:03pm
i'm trying to shame him into leaving the dark side.

hopeless, perhaps,

but I love my brother......

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008 @ 10:04pm
He's not really....I mean "serious" (I'm sure he THINKS he is), but the guy is part of a dying segment of American polity (if not society).

Mask

oh, i know.

just trying to help him before it's too late.

you think he'd realize with SO many people telling him he's evil......

go pistons!

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:13:51 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008 @ 10:07pm
you think he'd realize with SO many people telling him he's evil......----Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008

Naawwww....we're all "atheistic Marxist pacifists", even me who takes Ms vanden Heuvel and Mr Nichols to task every so often.

He KNOWS we're not representative of any vast bloc of America...."he is" and despite the "slight downturn" (i.e. Bush's approvals in the tank, support for the war in the tank, GOP collapsing on a Congressional level, a "maverick" getting the nomination)....he KNOWS that ultimately he is right, we are wrong, and God is on his side.

So our slings and arrows don't have any impact on his opinion. Aside from maybe surrendering on abortion, he probably hasn't changed his mind in 30 years.

Posted by Mask at 05/22/2008 @ 09:13am
oh well,

at least he grows his own food.....

Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:33:39 AM

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 09:27am
I see all the category SA DELUXE Sweets, $3,600-$5,800 per person are SOLD OUT for the cruise. Must be nice.

Posted by Benchrest at 05/22/2008 @ 10:55am
i have come to the conclusion that you are "satan" incarnate.

god help you.

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/21/2008

Frosty,

Just do what I did. Make him so pissed off at you that he puts you on HIS ignore list. That way you don't have to read his B.S. anymore....at least not directly.

He's not Satan incarnate....maybe a relative twice removed or something along those lines. He does have moments where his skewed views are interrupted by some mild form of compassion for his fellow humans with opposing views. This happens rarely, but I've seen it from time to time.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 05/22/2008 @ 12:03pm
Must be nice.

Posted by Benchrest

yeah. well, not really.

you could plant a lot of trees for that coin.

that'd be nicer.

Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:59:34 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 12:52pm
Wolfgang1

well,

what i meant by "satan" is that the pastor has allowed the evil rumblings we all share in our hearts to corrupt jesus' message of peace.

i'm just trying to help a friend.

Thursday, May 22, 2008 1:07:31 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 05/22/2008 @ 1:00pm
You know Mask. You said nuke em till they glow and that got me thinking. If we drop enough nukes in the middle east to make everyone there glow. We will have no problem identifying terrorists.

Well I mean every Middle Eastern person is a terrorist right?

So anytime someone glowing gets in line for a flight you take them to Gitmo or someone more secretive. Torture them. Get no information or useless information because a person will say anything if they are being tortured and then take them to a field and execute them.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/22/2008 @ 1:14pm
I like how folks like LV and Happy will deny the use of torture. Then you go to the just posted article by Chen and they have a detainee who was held 5 years even though he was found innocent 3 years before he was released. He says they hung him for 5 days suspended in chains by his arms and said they would release him if he signed their false confession.

Sounds like torture to me...

But I guess he is just lying too.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/22/2008 @ 3:44pm