Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
Reddit
A very sweet victory in Oregon this week, where voters passed two ballot initiatives to raise taxes on the wealthiest 3 percent of its residents--individuals earning over $125,000 and couples exceeding $250,000 annually--and also on businesses which have until now enjoyed " one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the nation."
The $1 billion in increased revenues will go towards public education and social services, averting significant cuts which would have been made worse by the loss of approximately $250 million in matching funds from the federal government.
Charles Sheketoff, executive director of the Oregon Center for Public Policy (OCPP), told the New York Times this was a victory for "true populism" and that conservatives and tea partiers had "tried to hijack the term."
Indeed, this victory was won through the hard organizing work of teachers and public employees unions, and the crafting of a smart tax proposal. The campaign wasn't about class warfare, or taking on the banks as evil beasts (though there's nothing wrong with that!), it was about progressive taxation, an art form in economic policy that has somehow been lost over these many decades. It's worth remembering that under President Eisenhower the top marginal tax rate was over 90 percent.
The Oregon campaign was based on the notion of shared prosperity and common sense--that people who are more affluent can pay a little more for services that they too benefit from--especially in these tough times. To take a line from President Obama's State of the Union address, "Let's try common sense. A novel concept."
Steve Robinson, senior policy analyst at OCPP, honed in on the broad appeal of the campaign.
"The lesson here is if you want funding to keep schools open, care for seniors, and other vital services, ask who is in the best position to help with that project?" Robinson told me. "People who are doing just fine, making over a quarter-million dollars a year even in the recession. The state is just taxing 1.8 percent of whatever is earned over that threshold. Oregonians also said that isn't appropriate for corporations to pay just $10 a year in income taxes. We need to look at who can afford to help in difficult times."
Doug Hall, Director of the Economic Analysis and Research Network at EPI, spoke of another key reason to celebrate this victory.
"This was achieved through ballot measures," he said. "The people had an opportunity to weigh the relative merits of draconian budget cuts versus strategic revenue increases, and they have decided to support the revenue increases. I think that sends a powerful message to the rest of the country and it's a message that we hope other states hear as well. Pretty much all states are struggling with significant revenue shortfalls. And enacting high-end income tax increases is actually the least harmful way to close those revenue gaps."
Hall said budget cuts "not only hurt vulnerable populations" but it's like "slitting their own throat in terms of the state economy's ability to recover," since states aren't permitted to run deficits in order to grow the economy.
Oregon got it right with its appeal to common sense and fairness, and crafting a progressive tax policy. 29 states have now passed tax and fee increases totaling $24 billion this fiscal year, up from $1.5 billion a year earlier. " Here's hoping this latest victory is a sign of more budget sanity to come.
Share this article
Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
RSS
Well, I guess every rich person and corporation will flee Oregon within days, right?
I mean, that's what "always happens"....right?
Just like when Bill Clinton passed his 1993 tax hike...we went into a 2nd Great Depression.
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 09:06am
Eat The Rich! Tax em!
Posted by chaoszen at 01/29/2010 @ 09:11am
Boost that Progressive Tax Rate back to 74%!
Make em pay for their Greedy Ways!
Gotta Love It!
Posted by chaoszen at 01/29/2010 @ 09:12am
It is OK up to a point. But, please remember that California's budget woes are much worse because of an over-reliance on taxing the top earners. When there is a normal, natural periodic downturn, and the rich aren't so rich, your tax base crashes very badly.
John Froelich
Posted by balataf at 01/29/2010 @ 09:19am
From the WSJ on tues
"The twin ballot measures are serving as a gauge of anti-business populism and highlight a nationwide debate over whether to fix state budgets by targeting the affluent. But they are also fueling resentment of "tax and spend" legislators, as well as public-employee unions whose members are enjoying job security at a time when thousands have lost their jobs"
"Oregon's Democrat-controlled state Legislature crafted the measures to raise $733 million to cover a state budget shortfall. Opponents call the effort unfair, charging that it was concocted via focus group to tap voter anger against "rich" corporations by a legislature too dysfunctional to fix Oregon's unbalanced finances."
Bob Wiggins, representing Oregonians Against Job-Killing Taxes. Mr. Wiggins scored points reminding voters that a "yes" vote would raise personal income taxes in Oregon to 11%, "the highest rate in the U.S." which will force businesses from the state, he said.
Hardly a sweet victory or budgetary sanity .
Wouldnt it be nice if Mr and Mrs America when faced with spending more than they are earning could just tap into all those mean rich people and corporations who are making more than they are rather than having to make due with what they have until things get better.
Katrina you just illustrate to everyone with each article you publish how out of touch you are with reality.
Posted by limoman at 01/29/2010 @ 09:32am
Eat the rich
tastes like pate'.
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:39am
Well, Mrs. KVH,
You should let another of your writers report on this, since you went to such great lengths to avoid paying your approximate two million in taxes.
It just doesn't go over well. At all.
Or do you not care how it looks, or that it gives ammunition to the opposition?
Posted by Benchrest at 01/29/2010 @ 09:45am
I hardly think any individual making 125,000, would be considered wealthy. The tax is only applied to what they make above it anyway. The money goes to schools and health care, public safety and so forth. Honestly corporations were held to a $10 minimum for the last 70-80 years. If you think raising it to $150 will drive business away, well that's really sad. Oregon needs the money, and without sales tax we have issues getting it. This is a band aid, one we'll use to bring back 5 day school weeks for our kids.
Posted by craivent at 01/29/2010 @ 09:47am
Posted by limoman at 01/29/2010 @ 09:32am
why aren't the Bush tax cuts working?
Obama has cut taxes for the majority of Americans, where is the business growth?
Looks like Oregon has taxed at a lower rate than Reagan.
Incomes over 82K were taxed at 28% under the Great Celebrity Communicator , 31% under Poppy.
and, as pointed out, when America was REALLY at war, Americans sacrificed for the greater good. Why don't you cons want to contribute to the war effort now?
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:49am
Posted by Benchrest at 01/29/2010 @ 09:45am
link please.
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:51am
Well, I guess every rich person and corporation will flee Oregon within days, right?
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 09:06am
I suppose, by your logic Mask, that wealthy people will be beating a path to Oregon so they can live there and pay more taxes, huh?
Posted by fram at 01/29/2010 @ 10:06am
Posted by Benchrest at 01/29/2010 @ 09:45am
Taxes are for little people - didn't you get the memo? Check out Congress and Obama's cabinet, for God's sake.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 10:10am
Well, I guess every rich person and corporation will flee Oregon within days, right?
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 09:06am
It's funny MASK, you sound an awful lot like Marion Barry when you say that! Of course, you sound a lot like him any day, maybe just more so today.
Just curious MASK - how high do you think taxes should be? If government creates wealth, shouldn't taxes be 100 percent - to make us all rich? Never can nail you down on this question, still trying here...
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 10:13am
Come to think of it, it's very strange that we never hear much about Charlie Rangel's tax evasion here at The Nation - you know - the guy who writes the tax law for the rest of us, under which we can be jailed, whereas he continues to chair the Ways and Means Committee. I guess only certain types of outrage are a priority here.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 10:15am
link please.
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:51am
"The Princeton-educated granddaughter of Jules Stein, founder of the mega-entertainment conglomerate MCA, Vanden Heuvel has inherited millions of dollars through a series of trusts that her grandfather established with the help of legendary tax attorney John Wright. When Stein died, a big chunk of his investments were safely sheltered in trust funds. But the IRS determined that one investment device, Project Notes, containing 9 million, was not exempt. The family sued the IRS to avoid paying more than 2 million in estate taxes. Vanden Heuvel was an editor at the Nation at the time, and the estate fought the case all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled against the family."
Peter Schweizer, Do As I Say(Not AS I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy.
You can take it from there. She should have let Nichols do the report.
Posted by Benchrest at 01/29/2010 @ 10:26am
OMG all the way to the supreme court?? To avoid paying only 22% taxes?? Katrina!!! Shame on you!!!!
Posted by limoman at 01/29/2010 @ 10:31am
I wonder if Katrina also considered that to be a "sweet victory" for the IRS and the government?
Posted by limoman at 01/29/2010 @ 10:33am
funny how the word "pension" is not found on this page.
pension.
now, it's on the page twice.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 10:47am
Taxes are for little people - didn't you get the memo? Check out Congress and Obama's cabinet, for God's sake.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 10:10am
quick! to the opthamologist!
it seems your right eye is melting down.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 10:50am
Posted by fram at 01/29/2010 @ 10:06am
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 10:13am
Well, then guys, big business opportunities in Oregon...
helping all those rick folks and corporations MOVE to Mississippi.
BTW, Ponti, how about we return tax rates to what they were under a REPUBLICAN President who had a booming economy?
Ike.
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 10:51am
It is OK up to a point. But, please remember that California's budget woes are much worse because of an over-reliance on taxing the top earners. When there is a normal, natural periodic downturn, and the rich aren't so rich, your tax base crashes very badly.
John Froelich
Posted by balataf at 01/29/2010 @ 09:19am
Excellent point. New York suffers from a similar problem with its addiction to taxing the mega bonuses of Wall Street. Far better to ensure that the mass of people are making good wages that can be taxed at a fair rate by raising the minimum wage, protecting the right to unionize, stopping the off-shoring of jobs and slapping tariffs on imports from nations that exploit and oppress their workers the worst.
Posted by cka2nd at 01/29/2010 @ 11:14am
Remember Maryland...when they raised taxes on the wealthy?,
They put a millionares tax on all people making a million dollars a year or more, after all they could afford it......and that year the tax was levied the state had 3000 people on the tax roles listed incomes of a million or more.....
the following year the state listd less than 1400 listed as making a million or more......and the folowing year...you see the trend.
and the revenue shortfall the state was trying to pin on the wealthy actualy became a larger hole, since the millionare tax base began to...migrate.
I am sure Oregon with have a windfall in the treasury this year....next year should be the real measure.
All these soak the producer class eventualy dry up the rich class and then the tax man shifts his focus on the next chump in line.....YOU...in the middle....
They never consider cutting spending, the state teat is always read for more mouths...in fact the libs constantly call an decrease in the rate of INCREASE...a draconian cut...
Good luck Oregon...you are going to need it...and it is one way to get those pesky Californians who fled high taxes in California to escape into Oregon, to find another state that is business friendly and wealth creating friendly.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 11:22am
Couple of points here.
It is one thing if the state legislature raises the taxes on the top 3% of wage earners. Politicians are held accountable by elections.
It is another thing entirely when the voting public can do that on a ballot initiative. There is no election to impose accountability there.
This wasn't like a ballot iniative to pay more property taxes, for example. EVERY adult pays property tax, either as homeowners or it is reflected in their rent.
Therefore it is justified that the entire voting public can decide, collectively, if it wants higher property taxes. Or a higher sales tax. Everyone pays those.
But for the entire public to come together and decide to make it more expensive for 3% of the population?
I really don't think we want to go down that road. It stinks. If this is "true populism", I cannot see how it is much different than, "Hey, we all got together and voted that you have to give us more of your stuff. And we might have more votes in the future. Tough shit, but we outnumber you."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:31am
Couple of points here.
It is one thing if the state legislature raises the taxes on the top 3% of wage earners. Politicians are held accountable by elections.
It is another thing entirely when the voting public can do that on a ballot initiative. There is no election to impose accountability there.
This wasn't like a ballot iniative to pay more property taxes, for example. EVERY adult pays property tax, either as homeowners or it is reflected in their rent.
Therefore it is justified that the entire voting public can decide, collectively, if it wants higher property taxes. Or a higher sales tax. Everyone pays those.
But for the entire public to come together and decide to make it more expensive for 3% of the population?
I really don't think we want to go down that road. It stinks. If this is "true populism", I cannot see how it is much different than, "Hey, we all got together and voted that you have to give us more of your stuff. And we might have more votes in the future. Tough shit, but we outnumber you."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:31am
This from the Baltimore Sun:
The recession provides an obvious explanation. Capital gains have become almost nonexistent as stock markets have tanked. Corporate executives have seen their salaries slashed. And small businesses, many of whom file individual income tax returns, have seen their profits gouged by the economic downturn.
Another more debatable explanation would be that millionaires have simply fled the Free State. While some say they have heard anecdotal evidence of the wealthy packing it up, officials say there's no proof yet of such a development.
The new 6.5 percent bracket for the highest earners became effective for the 2008 tax year, and expires after 2010. The General Assembly made the tax change last year to help offset the repeal of the unpopular computer services sales tax, which lawmakers passed just months earlier in a 2007 special session as part of $1.3 billion in tax increases intended to close a structural budget deficit.
At the time, fiscal analysts said the change would bring in nearly $330 million over three years. Lawmakers left untouched the next lowest bracket: 5.5 percent for those making more than $500,000.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 11:37am
"They never consider cutting spending"
(biggest lie of the day)
every state has been cutting and cutting, but at some point, there's nothing left to cut.
oregon is not a rich state. i applaud the vote. this is a good thing, and i wish california could do it.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 11:44am
why aren't the Bush tax cuts working?
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:49am
They DID work. The economy responded favorably to the tax cuts. Tax revenues were above the historical average following them. Matter of fact, capital gains tax revenues pretty much doubled after the Bush tax cuts. Many Americans were no longer required to even pay income taxes in their bracket because they were low wage earners and the across the board cuts put them below the line of needing to pay them. (i.e. The Evil Bush made it so a lot of poor people got to keep more of their own money)
But here's the other side to your question.
What do you suppose eliminating those tax cuts will do to economic growth, job creation, spending, and investment?
Sorry, I don't like to refer to this as "eliminating the Bush tax cuts", because that is political language invented by Pelosi.
Anytime you pay more this year than you did last year...well, that is a tax raising. It is NOT "restoring the tax rates to the pre-Bush cuts".
It is a TAX INCREASE. Period.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:56am
why aren't the Bush tax cuts working?
Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:49am
They DID work. The economy responded favorably to the tax cuts. Tax revenues were above the historical average following them. Matter of fact, capital gains tax revenues pretty much doubled after the Bush tax cuts. Many Americans were no longer required to even pay income taxes in their bracket because they were low wage earners and the across the board cuts put them below the line of needing to pay them. (i.e. The Evil Bush made it so a lot of poor people got to keep more of their own money)
But here's the other side to your question.
What do you suppose eliminating those tax cuts will do to economic growth, job creation, spending, and investment?
Sorry, I don't like to refer to this as "eliminating the Bush tax cuts", because that is political language invented by Pelosi.
Anytime you pay more this year than you did last year...well, that is a tax raising. It is NOT "restoring the tax rates to the pre-Bush cuts".
It is a TAX INCREASE. Period.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:56am
Eat the rich tastes like pate'. Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2010 @ 09:39am
Uh-uh
Tastes like chicken.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 11:57am
"Anytime you pay more this year than you did last year...well, that is a tax raising. It is NOT "restoring the tax rates to the pre-Bush cuts"
yeah, only pelosi is spinning the language, not citizen_carrier, he's a straight-shootin' objectifyin' speaka of da truth.
whatever.
let me just give you a quick example of how dumb citizen's point is: bush could have lowered the tax rate to ZERO, and then destroyed the country (which he did), and then obama would have said, "well we gotta raise it to 1" and STILL citizen would call that an "increase" even though bush made a colossally stupid decision to lower it to zero.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:20pm
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 10:51am
"Well, then guys, big business opportunities in Oregon... helping all those rick folks and corporations MOVE to Mississippi."
You do know that Boeing relocated its newest plant to South Carolina - at the expense of Washington State, right? And all those Detroit auto jobs - they're now down south in non-union, profitable factories manned by people who are perfectly happy to keep the job-killing unions OUT of their workplaces - so their communities don't end up looking like Detroit - a model liberal city.
"BTW, Ponti, how about we return tax rates to what they were under a REPUBLICAN President who had a booming economy? Ike."
Hmmmm...so your recipe for continued prosperity is high taxes, including confiscatory taxation in the upper brackets? I guess your operating premise is that money is better spent by central planners in DC than those folks who actually make money and jobs? You're a real fucking genius, MASK, you know that?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 12:32pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:56am
Carrier, why didn't the "massive Clinton tax hike" kill the economy in the 90s?
(BTW, before you start with "Newt", let's see how things were going in January 1995 before he was sworn in....or before the GOP House had passed a single bill that spring?)
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 12:34pm
Hey, I know it's off-topic, but how about Obama kicking in $45 billion for new nuclear plants? Has the Holy Church of Liberalism told you liberals what to think about this yet? Last I heard, it was Church doctrine that nuclear power was the spawn of the capitalist devil. Must have been some kind of dispensation made. Anybody get the memo?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 12:39pm
"I guess your operating premise is that money is better spent by central planners in DC than those folks who actually make money and jobs?"
yeah, just trust the Masters of the Universe down on wall street, they'll definitely take care of us.
i mean, serious, we entrusted them with our money for 30 years.....and just look at how good things are for us.
in fact, let's just give them MORE money. they certainly need it.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:52pm
oh, mr CEO, if we give you trillions in tax breaks, will you promise to give us jobs? you wouldn't ship them overseas, would you?
"no, never, i don't really care about making more money, i care about the american people"
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:55pm
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:52pm
"i mean, serious, we entrusted them with our money for 30 years.....and just look at how good things are for us. in fact, let's just give them MORE money. they ertainly need it."
YOUR money, DARLA? How much of YOUR money did you entrust to the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street? And who's the royal WE here? Do you even PAY TAXES?
Oh, and about your hero, Che...could you tell us what he was, other than a mass-murderer, which you consider to be so important that it should change our perceptions of him?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:02pm
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:55p
"no, never, i don't really care about making more money, i care about the american people"
What American CEO would ever say something idiotic like that? Since you don't seem to know much about this sort of thing, I'll tell you: CEO's are hired to run companies, DARLA - to run a business for a profit so that they provide jobs and livelihoods for productive workers - not to treat people like children that need to be cared for.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:05pm
Couple of points here.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:31am
Couple of points here.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 11:31am
actually, that's four.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:05pm
to run a business for a profit so that they provide jobs and livelihoods for productive workers -
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:05pm
in SHENZHEN!
•
•
in a sea of mercury...
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:07pm
How much of YOUR money did you entrust to the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:02pm
about 21 trillion.
you, too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:08pm
let me just give you a quick example of how dumb citizen's point is: bush could have lowered the tax rate to ZERO, and then destroyed the country (which he did), and then obama would have said, "well we gotta raise it to 1" and STILL citizen would call that an "increase" even though bush made a colossally stupid decision to lower it to zero.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:20pm
It is not a good example because it relies too heavily on hyperbole and straw man argumentation.
Two of the most often used tools in your box.
For example, Bush didn't "destroy" the country. This is more of your hysterical, overstated, overwrought, and emotionally charged argumentative style. Something I try to avoid.
Our economy is in a slump because of a lot of Americans living beyond their means and defaulting on loans they never should've gotten in the first place. And Bush called repeatedly for two of the biggest actors in this debacle to be audited and brought back into responsible lending practices.
He was opposed on this and the auditing never happened. Strangely, those two entities are paying big, evil bonuses to their executives...but they are not being demonized for it like other, less openly Democrat Party friendly financial institutions.
And I stand by my original assertion regarding the English language. When your rate of taxation is raised this year to higher than you had last year, you have experienced a TAX HIKE. When your rates are lower this year than last, you have experienced a TAX CUT.
If you are going to raise taxes, then have the guts to call it that in plain Queen's English.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 1:15pm
let me just give you a quick example of how dumb citizen's point is: bush could have lowered the tax rate to ZERO, and then destroyed the country (which he did), and then obama would have said, "well we gotta raise it to 1" and STILL citizen would call that an "increase" even though bush made a colossally stupid decision to lower it to zero.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 12:20pm
It is not a good example because it relies too heavily on hyperbole and straw man argumentation.
Two of the most often used tools in your box.
For example, Bush didn't "destroy" the country. This is more of your hysterical, overstated, overwrought, and emotionally charged argumentative style. Something I try to avoid.
Our economy is in a slump because of a lot of Americans living beyond their means and defaulting on loans they never should've gotten in the first place. And Bush called repeatedly for two of the biggest actors in this debacle to be audited and brought back into responsible lending practices.
He was opposed on this and the auditing never happened. Strangely, those two entities are paying big, evil bonuses to their executives...but they are not being demonized for it like other, less openly Democrat Party friendly financial institutions.
And I stand by my original assertion regarding the English language. When your rate of taxation is raised this year to higher than you had last year, you have experienced a TAX HIKE. When your rates are lower this year than last, you have experienced a TAX CUT.
If you are going to raise taxes, then have the guts to call it that in plain Queen's English.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 1:15pm
to run a business for a profit so that they provide jobs and livelihoods for productive workers -
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:05pm
in SHENZHEN!
•
•
in a sea of mercury...
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:07pm
Have you ever seen Shenzen? I have...the place is clean, modern, has huge electric trains and a new apartment buildings....
and you live in..Detroit....
How are you helping out your tax base?
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:24pm
How much of YOUR money did you entrust to the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 1:02pm
about 21 trillion.
you, too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:08pm
And you invested....nothing....on any level.
Except expert advice...from experience...of course.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:25pm
Hmm Darla again you try to rewrite history 33 years ago the Dow was at 1700 after black Friday crash and now today it's at 10 000.the Wall street guys did pretty well for many of us over the years
Posted by limoman at 01/29/2010 @ 1:28pm
For Kennybaby and other nuts like Darlaloon..
"2009
Maryland Wonders: Where'd the Millionaires Go?
by Joseph Henchman
As we detailed in our most recent report on so-called millionaires' taxes, we now have five states that have imposed a top rate near or above 10% on a small subset of high-income earners. While original adopters California in 2005 imposed their 10.3% (now 10.55%) tax rate at income over $1 million, subsequent states have crept lower in the income scale. New Jersey and New York now imposes a 8.97% tax on income over $500,000, Maryland's 5% state rate (plus an average 2.98% county income tax) kicks in at $150,000, and now Hawaii has an 11% tax rate on income over $200,000.
Supporters of these taxes say that those still able to earn high incomes in this time of recession should kick in a bit more to help state budget shortfalls. Critics respond that such disproportionate tax rates undermine long-term economic growth by discouraging high-income earners from staying in or relocating to the state. The evidence on both sides has primarily been anecdotal, focusing on California and New Jersey, which have had the taxes the longest.
Now anecdotal evidence is coming in from Maryland, which imposed its new tax brackets in 2008. On May 13, Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot (D) wrote in a letter that the number of tax returns reporting income over $1 million has dropped by a third. More to the point, revenue from those earners has dropped by $100 million. Tax Analysts's Karen Setze interviewed some government officials:
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:29pm
"Taxes don't just redistribute wealth, they redistribute people," House Minority Whip Christopher Shank (R) said [in 2008].... More recently, House Minority Leader Anthony O'Donnell (R) told Tax Analysts that "I have been told by many people that because of the tax increase, they are moving their business or their home of residence out of the state. They said they either had moved or were doing it. A lot of these folks have residential holdings in other states, so it's easy."
In the news this week was Paychex founder Tom Golisano, who announced that he is moving to Florida specifically to escape a likely income tax increase in his home state of New York.
No doubt the recession is a cause of the drop in million-dollar tax returns: people of all incomes have seen drops in earnings and net worth. Looking at the incomes of high-earners, one sees that they soar high in booms but drop sharply in busts--a much more volatile pattern than other revenue sources like sales or gasoline taxes.
That makes these millionaires' taxes all the more senseless as a solution for a recessionary budget crisis: at best they hit up one set of people (when we're all hurting and we all benefit from government), and a declining revenue source to boot. In the short term the revenue may help the state balance its budget, but in the long-term it has made itself a less attractive location to the high-income earners, job creators, and innovators of the future. Enjoy
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:30pm
That makes these millionaires' taxes all the more senseless as a solution for a recessionary budget crisis: at best they hit up one set of people (when we're all hurting and we all benefit from government), and a declining revenue source to boot. In the short term the revenue may help the state balance its budget, but in the long-term it has made itself a less attractive location to the high-income earners, job creators, and innovators of the future.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:30pm
I have...the place is clean, modern, has huge electric trains and a new apartment buildings....
•• ah, the joys of state-command economy. the china bubbles gonna ¡pop!
and you live in..Detroit....
•• detroit lives in me. god bless america.
How are you helping out your tax base?
•• by using very little.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:24pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:56pm
And you invested....nothing....on any level.
•• far from it. the folly's of your fedsuary affect me everyday.
Except expert advice...from experience...of course.
•• john, when a bank lends you money, ¿where does it come from?
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:25pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:59pm
"In the short term the revenue may help the state balance its budget, but in the long-term it has made itself a less attractive location to the high-income earners, job creators, and innovators of the future"
good
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 1:59pm
follies.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:59pm
gosh, what would we do without those special "high income earners"?
it's funny, but you conservatives always talk about the problems of dependency, and here you are, prancing around arguing that we NEED high income earners and innovators to solve our problems.
in essence, you are arguing that we DEPEND on these masters of the universe to solve our problems. the money will just trickle down, i'm sure.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 2:01pm
"Do you even PAY TAXES?"
of course i pay taxes. and i'll be paying them again tomorrow, it's that time of year.
why does everyone assume i don't pay taxes? oh that's right, only the "high income earners and innovators" pay taxes. they're special, and we should never, ever forget just how important they are, and without their special talents, we would all be dead.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 2:04pm
I have...the place is clean, modern, has huge electric trains and a new apartment buildings....
•• ah, the joys of state-command economy. the china bubbles gonna ¡pop!
and you live in..Detroit....
•• detroit lives in me. god bless america.
How are you helping out your tax base?
•• by using very little.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:24pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:56pm
You use more than you put in...including the general services as roads, govt offices, ect...
Of that..we are all sure..
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 2:05pm
And you invested....nothing....on any level.
•• far from it. the folly's of your fedsuary affect me everyday.
Except expert advice...from experience...of course.
•• john, when a bank lends you money, ¿where does it come from?
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:25pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 1:59pm
I have no loans out.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 2:05pm
h, what would we do without those special "high income earners"?
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 2:01pm
You do...you are just too stupid to realise and understand why.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 2:07pm
"You do...you are just too stupid to realise and understand why"
because they'll shower the poor with their bread crumbs
yes, only the rich can help us.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 2:13pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 1:15pm
"Oh, if we had only listened to Dubya...none of this would have happened!"
Would you PLEASE see to it that the Republicans run on that in 2012?...Please?
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 2:13pm
"It is OK up to a point. But, please remember that California's budget woes are much worse because of an over-reliance on taxing the top earners. When there is a normal, natural periodic downturn, and the rich aren't so rich, your tax base crashes very badly."
John Froelich
Posted by balataf at 9:19am
"Excellent point. New York suffers from a similar problem with its addiction to taxing the mega bonuses of Wall Street. Far better to ensure that the mass of people are making good wages that can be taxed at a fair rate by raising the minimum wage, protecting the right to unionize, stopping the off-shoring of jobs and slapping tariffs on imports from nations that exploit and oppress their workers the worst."
Posted by cka2nd at 11:14am
First, a first. A nice, down to Earth, nonbombastic, reasonable post from Froelich.
Second, CKA, your statement doesn't eliminate the --I think-- wise option of high taxes on huge pools of wealth that are subsequently sequestered into conservatively invested trusts, to be doled out in more or less even increments annually to essential infrastructural, and societal humanitarian demands.
Just a brief thought.
Peace out, folks, and a fine weekend to all, ~B
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 2:19pm
"But, please remember that California's budget woes are much worse because of an over-reliance on taxing the top earners"
over reliance? first there have been no tax increases on top earners in a long, long time.
second, california has more billionaires than any other state.
this state is awash in cash.
who's reliant on taxing top earners, when tax increases need a 2/3 majority, and republicans have sworn to never raise taxes?
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 2:23pm
"In the short term the revenue may help the state balance its budget, but in the long-term it has made itself a less attractive location to the high-income earners, job creators, and innovators of the future"
good
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 1:59pm
What are you, some kind of bizarre luddite wearing hemp fiber clothes, living off the grid growing your own food harvesting the lice from your underarm hair for protein?
What could POSSIBLY BE GOOD about an area that is unattractive to job creators and innovators because of stupid tax policy?
Could you possibly describe the "up" side of chasing entrepenuers away and keeping them away?
Man, if we could just chase away all the individuals who start businesses and hire people like me...we'll be sitting pretty!
Sounds like Detroit.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 2:24pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 1:15pm "Oh, if we had only listened to Dubya...none of this would have happened!" Would you PLEASE see to it that the Republicans run on that in 2012?...Please? Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 2:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Why would the repubs run on this? Brown showed them the way home.
The bigger concern should be the Dems... As Repubs poiting to Obama,Pelosi, and Reid and say,"Please, please run on your agenda again".....
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 2:35pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 01/29/2010 @ 1:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Still trying to doublespeak away the effects (failure) of your Conservative Utopian Dream played out in real life? There's no evidence that the 2001-08 Bush tax cut years caused economic growth. Real per-capita revenues fell significantly from 2001-2003 and by 2007 had only risen 2% above their 2001 level. Compare this to the average of 12% obtained by the other post-war recoveries. Tax rate cuts correlate historically with bubble and crash economies. The 1920s, 1980s, and 2000s all betray this relationship. No surprises here, just allowing predictable consequences to run their natural course.
Poor people living in New Orleans-- that part of America most resembling the Third World (the South)-- weren't the only ones drowned by the incompetence of their government: the American family saw incomes decline during the Bush years. Of course, conservatives thrive on deflection and excuse-mongering as an essential life force, as human do oxygen, so out march the vapid slogans and caveman philosophies.
Posted by wiseman at 01/29/2010 @ 2:35pm
Hey Darla, how's things rollin' in Cali?
We never --for whatever reason-- talk, woman, so I just thought I'd throw out a shout out.
You are still in the Emerald State of N. California, no? Haven't been in quite some time, but I dug the general environs of the Northerly half of CA --Southern Cal has some positives, but it's also waaay overrated in many ways.
Take it easy, ~B
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 2:37pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 1:29pm
"Now anecdotal evidence is coming in from Maryland, which imposed its new tax brackets in 2008. On May 13, Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot (D) wrote in a letter that the number of tax returns reporting income over $1 million has dropped by a third. More to the point, revenue from those earners has dropped by $100 million. Tax Analysts's Karen Setze interviewed some government officials:"
Peter Franchot: Meet Arthur Laffer. You're welcome.
Actually, Peter Franchot is a Democrat of the barking moonbat type. He hails from Montgomery County, nesting site of lawyers, lobbyists, and assorted government creatures, all perched precariously on the outskirts of another model liberal city, Washington DC, where the liberal limousiners hide behind big iron gates, send their kids to Sidwell Friends, and everyone else is just plain scared of getting shot by the guns that don't exist because they are banned.
Franchot's political career was launched on Rockville Pike, where he passed out political flyers in rush hour traffic, trying to get elected to the town council. I should have run the bastard over right then and there.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 2:38pm
On the economic bright side a state with a majority of fools doing thier best to discourage business eslocating there is a boon to low tax and business friendly states!
Thank you California and Oregon and any other state desiring to tax the rich business owners and tax payers! Keep those moving trucks moving our way!
Gosh we sure do love you!
Posted by BigPasture at 01/29/2010 @ 2:41pm
Posted by wiseman at 01/29/2010 @ 2:35pm
Gee, wiseguy, tell us again how big government created the wealth of America. I really like the part where taxes are raised to 100 percent and we all become infinitely rich.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 2:45pm
Well, if it isn't the "wiseman"?
Love your extraordinarily well constructed and analytically sound posts, dude. You must be a relatively new poster here, or at least, I haven't seen your stuff until very recently.
Welcome aboard, and I hope you stick around. These Nation blogs crave more of your quality to dramatically shunt aside the periodically strangling kudzu vines on these spaces.
Best regards, ~B
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 2:45pm
The family sued the IRS to avoid paying more than 2 million in estate taxes. Vanden Heuvel was an editor at the Nation at the time, and the estate fought the case all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled against the family."
Peter Schweizer, Do As I Say(Not AS I Do): Profiles in Liberal Hypocrisy.
You can take it from there. She should have let Nichols do the report.
Posted by Benchrest at 01/29/2010 @ 10:26am | ignore this person | warn this person
You just gotta love the silver spoon rich elitists of America who without ever knowing financial worry always make such a career out of telling others the path to happiness is marxism. Its like using their wealth urges them to commit financial suicide. Kinda suicide by cop complexes.
Posted by BigPasture at 01/29/2010 @ 2:48pm
Shit, 'Ficus slipped through my ignore net.
"click".....or should I say, "snip, snip, snip"...
Ahhhh....
:D
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 2:48pm
Posted by BigPasture at 01/29/2010 @ 2:41pm
Ya know, pretty soon it's going to occur to someone in the government in California to put up a wall to keep people from running away with all of DARLADOON and FROSTY's money. Then it'll REALLY get entertaining.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 2:49pm
o.k., john, where does the money for ANYBODY'S loans come from?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 3:00pm
Posted by BigPasture at 01/29/2010 @ 2:48pm
Hey, Rio....I know a few "Do As I Say, Not As I Do" examples-
Believe in the sanctity of marriage....then have 3 divorces---Rush
Want hard time for drug users....then not so much---Ditto
Tell your kids not to use contraception....unless they have a mom who can write "Rogue" books and support the grandkid.
Send other people's kids off to war......while you get five deferements or fly "combat missions over West Texas" when it was your turn.
Be "pro-life"....and shoot doctors.
Posted by Mask at 01/29/2010 @ 3:16pm
Freedom = Keeping more of what you earn. Paying taxes to politicians all in the framework of the US Constitution. Spending your money on goods, services and causes you see fit. Self sufficiency. Incentive.
Tyranny = Paying more and more of what you earn to the government. Paying taxes to politicians who unconstitutionally redistribute that money to appease special interests and to buy votes through entitlements and government dependency. Paying money to politicians who launch preemptive wars. And fund bridges to nowhere.
What is the possible source of KvH's trust of politicians?! She can't be that naive.
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:27pm
The loss of revenue in Maryland probably had less to do with any new law than it did with the bottom falling out of the stock market, which lost up to half its value at different times during the crash.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 3:29pm
Funny, I feel like I just stumbled into the local alcoholic's dive bar.
I realize I don't know anyone here personally, but I'm not gonna threaten your nightly meetings, turn off the tap, or seal the whiskey bottles.
It's --as far as I can tell-- safe to speak to me. Honest.
;-)
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:36pm
"What are you, some kind of bizarre luddite wearing hemp fiber clothes, living off the grid growing your own food harvesting the lice from your underarm hair for protein?"
yes
"What could POSSIBLY BE GOOD about an area that is unattractive to job creators and innovators because of stupid tax policy?"
less people
"You are still in the Emerald State of N. California?"
yes, san francisco and mendocino.
"Freedom = Keeping more of what you earn"
real freedom means keeping nothing.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 3:39pm
Posted by BigPasture at 01/29/2010 @ 2:41pm
Ya know, pretty soon it's going to occur to someone in the government in California to put up a wall to keep people from running away with all of DARLADOON and FROSTY's money. Then it'll REALLY get entertaining.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 2:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person
By YOUR logic, with union membership at an all time low, things everywhere should be booming. As a State, Michigan gives to Washington far more than it gets back; that's part of the problem. I've just never known, in my humble time, a single assembler or skilled tradesman who ever designed and launched a single car model that turned out to be unpopular. Ever. Full disclosure: I am in the trades, but non-automotive, non-UAW.
WHEREAS, in the modern era,WE bail out the hurricane/flood States of the West and South, repeatedly, at great cost, evey three weeks or so when they have their latest tropical storm and tap the federal disaster money, once again.
When this State was the Arsenal of Democracy (I know you are a big war fan, so I reference that) this area was booming, at a high rate of union membership and involvement, by some unexplained miracle of nature.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 01/29/2010 @ 3:41pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:27pm
"What is the possible source of KvH's trust of politicians?! She can't be that naive."
Katrina's already got hers. What does she care about income taxes? The taxes on her wealth are already paid. And she's got lots of lawyers to keep them that way.
Leftism among limousine liberals is simple survival strategy, plus it helps to alleviate those gnawing feelings of guilt that comes from never having to work for a living or justify your own existence. And high taxes have the benefit of keeping the plebes in their place - servicing you car, cutting your lawn, cleaning your toilets, whatever. For some, the moral preening opportunities (e.g., Kerry, Pelosi, Gore) alone are worth it in spades.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 3:44pm
It is very clear that as States try to increase revenue by raising taxes on the wealthy, it will be necessary to limit non-compliance with the new rates by restricting freedom of movement. We simply cannot allow certain people to live where they wish. Once you pass a certain income threshold, you just don't get to leave the state. And to make certain you aren't cheating, once you pass a certain level, you'll have to be under it for three years in a row before you can apply for a state exit visa. After all, it is for the common good!
Posted by sntauri at 01/29/2010 @ 3:46pm
Posted by schnellerheinz at 01/29/2010 @ 3:41pm
"When this State was the Arsenal of Democracy (I know you are a big war fan, so I reference that) this area was booming, at a high rate of union membership and involvement, by some unexplained miracle of nature."
First came the jobs. Then came the unions. The unions are still there. The jobs are gone, except in those places where there are no unions. What do YOU think happened?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 3:51pm
"it will be necessary to limit non-compliance with the new rates by restricting freedom of movement. We simply cannot allow certain people to live where they wish. Once you pass a certain income threshold, you just don't get to leave the state."
~posted by "pusilanimous pulsar" aka "the black hole of bewildered bamboozlement" aka "sn tauri"
Don't you worry none, boy. That time is acomin' soon.
Income level to trigger clamp down by drones and security check points --anything under, say, $1,000,000.00
It can always be raised as needed.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:52pm
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 3:39pm
"Real freedom means keeping nothing."
Wow, Darla, we agree on something. Just to be sure, you are not confusing "keeping nothing" with having nothing.
Because collectivisim is having nothing. That's why it is tyranny. And has nothing to do with keeping nothing. Keeping nothing is a free choice.
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:58pm
"Just to be sure, you are not confusing "keeping nothing" with having nothing"
they are one and the same.
"Because collectivism is having nothing. That's why it is tyranny"
so oregon is now a tyrannical state?
interesting.
freiheit, you're nuts.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:08pm
Funny, I feel like I just stumbled into the local alcoholic's dive bar. Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:36pm
Yeah and I can't figure out whether I'mm one of the drunks or just a guy who took a wrong turn after a day at the dog track.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 4:09pm
here is the conservative mind in a nutshell:
any attempt to reverse, slow down or stall the tax policies of george bush.....is tyrannical.
even though the bush tax policies were to the RIGHT of ronald reagan.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:09pm
i think freiheit is an anarchist.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:10pm
i think freiheit is an anarchist. Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:10pm
I think freiheit is an Islander fan. Just guessing.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 4:12pm
in the world of freiheit, NOBODY can be trusted. not even your spouse.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:14pm
No, Oregon is not a tyrannical state Darla. Unfair taxation is tyrannical. As is unconstitutional use of tax revenue by government.
I have no idea why you would want to argue over that.
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:16pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 2:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Much obliged, Kool man. You're quite the smooth-talker and handle these apostles of Slash-and-Burn Capitalism with intelligence and style. Very enjoyable to observe.
Cheers,
Wiseman
Posted by wiseman at 01/29/2010 @ 4:17pm
Darla, name a politician on the national stage you trust.
Me? I actually trust Dennis Kucinich. I don't agree with him, but I think he can be trusted to do what he says.
Who do you trust?
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:21pm
i think freiheit is an anarchist.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:10pm
Gosh... It shows?!
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:22pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/29/2010 @ 3:52pm
I am glad you approve of the idea.
These pesky individual freedoms do so get in the way of the collectivist fantasy!
Posted by sntauri at 01/29/2010 @ 4:23pm
Islanders? I'm guessing that's hocky?
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:23pm
"Unfair taxation is tyrannical"
of course, by "unfair" freiheit means "any tax increase whatsoever, even if it is STILL lower than rates under reagan"
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 4:27pm
What's unfair taxation to you then Darla?
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:28pm
It is very clear that as States try to increase revenue by raising taxes on the wealthy, it will be necessary to limit non-compliance with the new rates by restricting freedom of movement.
Posted by sntauri at 01/29/2010
Actually, if every state acted the same way, the "wealthy" would simply have to face the music, a tune a lot of us have waited a long time to hear.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 4:35pm
Well Ponti-I have to agree with you on Charlie Rangel,he was a tax evader and I believe he should pay the piper it is only fair.On Oregon you believe a corporate tax of $150 annually is excessive?Do you believe a slightly higher marginal tax rate is too much? I thought there was a thought pattern of restraint here and no hot rhetoric with the exception of out state money and advertisement.
Posted by whatozz at 01/29/2010 @ 4:43pm
"BTW, Ponti, how about we return tax rates to what they were under a REPUBLICAN President who had a booming economy? Ike."
Hmmmm...so your recipe for continued prosperity is high taxes, ....You're a real fucking genius, MASK, you know that?
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 12:32pm
Sorry to be late, really late, to this Friday party!
No time to read all comments but this one, w/MASK capitalized, caught my attention.......his nostalgia for the good, old days of high marginal tax rates....
Just tell MASK we can consider reverting to the high rates of yore if at the same time, we dial back ALL of the social spending BACK to the days of yore!
Posted by Happy at 01/29/2010 @ 4:44pm
KvH: "....people who are more affluent can pay a little more for services that they too benefit from...."
Depends on how one defines "a little more", huh?
At the bracket-break level, where the guy below pays NO taxes and the guy just above pays even just $1, the payer is paying INFINITELY MORE than the guy paying NOTHING!
Same goes for Fed Income Taxes, where half of the folks don't pay anything, and the first group that pays even a little, are already paying INFINITELY MORE than the non-payers.......middle school math!
Posted by Happy at 01/29/2010 @ 4:52pm
'First came the jobs. Then came the unions. The unions are still there. The jobs are gone, except in those places where there are no unions. What do YOU think happened?'
What happened? I think it was NAFTA, "Pontificus." Which, by the way, didn't affect Western Europe. Which, by the way, is much MORE unionized than the United States. And has a higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, much better public transportation, lower crime rates, and in most countries, many more political parties to choose from than just two.
'It is very clear that as States try to increase revenue by raising taxes on the wealthy, it will be necessary to limit non-compliance with the new rates by restricting freedom of movement.'
Uh, no, "sntauri," that won't be necessary. I've heard this empty threat far too often to take it seriously. Of course, the rich are free to leave high-taxing states if they really want to, but where are they going to find new high-paying jobs? It's not easy to make all your income in one state and arrange to have it taxed in another. There are lots of legal barriers to that kind of strategy.
Posted by JakobFabian at 01/29/2010 @ 4:54pm
Hey Darla, just wanted to tell you that I always seem to agree with you, wonder why that is???? Have a wonderful weekend girlfriend.;^)
Posted by Denise29 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:54pm
Hey Darla, they call where I come from granolaville, I love it here, up in the mountains of arizona, university town, fits me to a tee. Only prob, is arizona is a repub state, it wasn't always, so no chance they will raise taxes for the common good. Good weekend all, Denise:*]
Posted by Denise29 at 01/29/2010 @ 5:04pm
Katrina van Knucklehead is so thrilled that a state raised taxes she can't contain herself. needless to say this ultimate act of desperation will have the same result as the presidnt's stimulus spending..more lost jobs. But gee what happened after 911 and mean old Bush lowered taxes KVK!!!! Huuuummmm lets check it out!!!!
By Catherine Hubbard, Jeff Carlson and Paula Cruickshank, CCH Washington Staff Writers The House narrowly passed on October 24, 2001, the Economic Security and Recovery Act of 2001 (HR 3090), calling for nearly $100 billion in tax breaks next year. The vote was 216 to 214, mostly along party lines.
Specifically, the bill would: • provide immediate 30 percent business expensing (temporary for the next 3 years) for the purchase of capital assets • increase small business Code sec. 179 annual expensing from $24,000 to $35,000 • speed-up depreciation to 15 years for remodeling of leased property • extend carry-back of net operating losses from 2 years to 5 years • permanently repeal the corporate alternative minimum tax • immediately allow corporations to cash in existing credits • permanently extend Subpart F exceptions for finance and insurance
SO WHAT DID THAT BILL YIELD A YEAR LATER!!!!! take a close look Katrina van knucklehead..and you too Obama..because you are clueless...
Published: 10:04AM GMT 18 Dec 2002 The number of jobseekers claiming unemployment benefit has fallen to a 27-year low while the level of people in work has increased to a record high. The claimant count fell by 6,200 last month to 934,200, the lowest since 1975, giving a jobless rate of 3.1 per cent. The number of people in work increased by 105,000 between August and October to 27,759,000, the best figure since records began in 1984
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 5:26pm
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 5:26pm
Here's the job creation rate by president since WWII:http://lippard.blogspot.com/2009/01/job-creation-by-president.html. Notice how Bush presided over the worst rate since WWII.
Posted by nkurland at 01/29/2010 @ 5:37pm
Leftism among limousine liberals is simple survival strategy, plus it helps to alleviate those gnawing feelings of guilt that comes from never having to work for a living or justify your own existence. And high taxes have the benefit of keeping the plebes in their place - servicing you car, cutting your lawn, cleaning your toilets, whatever. For some, the moral preening opportunities (e.g., Kerry, Pelosi, Gore) alone are worth it in spades.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 3:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person
By the tone of this post, smug satisfaction must have accompanied the pressing of the submit key. Content be damned. Mind if I examine the substance of your post, cause it does not make any damn sense?
So, "limousine liberals" fight on behalf of unions and raising wages for the working class because they want those same people working for them as servants? Shouldn't they also be squealing with the other elites, those from the corporate side of the fence of unearned privilege, who expend considerable funds and energy assailing minimum wage laws?
How is it that leftists, who are elite and "never have to work for a living or justify their existence" need working and middle class people to "survive"? How do tax cuts for 95% of Americans and higher taxes on the top 5%--important components of the "leftist Agenda"-- enrich these "limousine liberal", again? I'm not seeing that one.
Posted by wiseman at 01/29/2010 @ 5:51pm
"Hey Darla, just wanted to tell you that I always seem to agree with you, wonder why that is????"
something in the water out west ;)
"What's unfair taxation to you then Darla?"
way to change the subject, frei.
you seem to believe two things:
1. reagan was a tyrant
2. reagan's tax rates were unconstitutional
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 5:59pm
nkurland you are another knucklehead among the KVK crowd of the clueless. If Bush is his second year lowered unemployment to alltime lows how can the rate of growth be anything but low.
It has nothing to do with my point which was that lowering taxes has an immediate impact on jobs ... jobs,... idiot. And you know who finally agrees...the clueless wonder himeself..obama... who after torturing people for a year just found religion and will be providing some tax cuts to all of business..BIG and small...got that Katrina van Knucklehead
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 6:01pm
Posted by wiseman at 01/29/2010 @ 5:51pm
"So, "limousine liberals" fight on behalf of unions ......considerable funds and energy assailing minimum wage laws?"
Limousine liberals promote policies that effectively keep people poor. Minimum wage laws reduce hiring in the lowest paid tiers whereas unions kill jobs. Obviously nobody markets policies advertised to keep people poor, but yet some clearly do. Something, for example, has destroyed Detroit - it was misguided policies. Of course, the lefties will quibble endlessly and cast blame in any direction but their own - but clearly, Detroit was ruled by Dems for decades and it met its demise exclusively under their control, while all those jobs went south to non-union areas. You can judge this for yourself.
""How is it that leftists, who are elite and "never have to work for a living or justify their existence" need working and middle class people to "survive"?"
My discussion was purely about limousine liberals. Such people need other people to sustain them and work for them, like any elite.
"How do tax cuts for 95% of Americans and higher taxes on the top 5%--important components of the "leftist Agenda"-- enrich these "limousine liberal", again? I'm not seeing that one."
Limousine liberals like Pelosi, Kerry, and Gore could not care less about income tax rates. They are already wealthy. Income tax rates affect high earners, who are upwardly mobile but not necessarily high net worth individuals, and in the cases I mentioned, are definitely not (none of those jokers could run a business if they tried - unless you call Gore's con game a business). Rich libs have no particular interest in fostering the upward mobility of others; they can maintain their position with power and manipulation.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 6:27pm
Posted by JakobFabian at 01/29/2010 @ 4:54pm
"What happened? I think it was NAFTA, "Pontificus." Which, by the way, didn't affect Western Europe. Which, by the way, is much MORE unionized than the United States. And has a higher life expectancy, lower infant mortality, much better public transportation, lower crime rates, and in most countries, many more political parties to choose from than just two."
Interesting statistics, but you left out a couple: what's the structural unemployment rate of say, France and Germany, without the millions on quasi-welfare; what's the birth rate across Europe, ie., how many years estimated until demographic implosion (resulting from sclerotic societies) and the necessarily resulting collapse of their welfare models? In short, Europe as we know it is dying - it is only sustained by importation of immigrants for cheap labor.
For public transportation, don't even go there - Europe is fundamentally different.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 6:36pm
Posted by whatozz at 01/29/2010 @ 4:43pm
"On Oregon you believe a corporate tax of $150 annually is excessive?Do you believe a slightly higher marginal tax rate is too much? I thought there was a thought pattern of restraint here and no hot rhetoric with the exception of out state money and advertisement."
It's not the details of any specific tax-raising initiative that are the problem, it's the overall trend. Many years of this sort of thing and you end up like Detroit - or California. The problem is the unquestioned growth of taxes and spending and the refusal of the federal and state governments to put a lid on it - something that is coming to a head in the next election.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 6:41pm
"Many years of this sort of thing and you end up like Detroit - or California"
yeah, thanks reagan, wilson, schwarzenegger.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 6:46pm
this is the results of a study prior to the vote on the Oregon tax increases
This is what Katrina IS CHEERING bout and why she truly is a clueless knucklehead!!!
The literature is clear that raising marginal tax rates is an impediment to economic growth and employment growt.
Measure 66 and Measure 67 will depress jobs cumulatively and significantly by reducing annual job growth:
1.For each percentage-point increase in the personal marginal tax, Oregon's employment growth decreases by one-tenth to two-tenths of a percentage point per annum. 2.For each percentage point increase in the corporate marginal income tax rate, Oregon's employment growth decreases by one-tenth to one-half a percentage point per annum
YEAHHHH Katrina...more taxes less jobs, more suffering yeahhhhh but its really progressive yeahhhhhh ...idiot
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 7:19pm
scottbrownsupporter,
do you live in oregon?
have you ever spent any time there?
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 7:24pm
hey do I need to lornadoon..this is from the AP today..they have an underemployment rate of 20%...only a total and complete progressively run legislature would have the balls...and the stupidity to raise taxes in that environment. So lornadoon...please educate me on ..Orgegon...I can't wait
Christopher S. Rugaber, AP Economics Writer, On Friday January 29, 2010, 5:57 pm EST WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Barack Obama said in his State of the Union Wednesday that "one in 10 Americans still cannot find work." But in nine states the figure is much worse -- closer to one in five, according to Labor Department data released Friday.
The figures are a stark illustration of how tough it is to find a full-time job, even as the economy has grown for two straight quarters. The official unemployment rate of 10 percent doesn't include people who are working part-time but would prefer full-time work, or the unemployed who have given up looking for work.
When those groups are included, the devastation in many parts of the country is clear: Michigan's so-called "underemployment" rate was 21.5 percent in 2009, the highest in the nation. California's was 21.1 percent, while Oregon's was 20.7 percent.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 7:30pm
"only a total and complete progressively run legislature would have the balls...and the stupidity to raise taxes in that environment"
the people decided to raise taxes, not the legislature.
i am less interested in whether the top 3% can "grow" and make more money, and more interested in rescuing the most vulnerable people from catastrophe.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 7:47pm
conservatives seem hell bent on trying to convince people that it was "liberal" policies or "liberal" states or "liberal" legislatures which got us into this mess.
and in fact, the red states are places where things are the worst: mississippi, alabama, texas, florida, oklahoma, south carolina, etc, etc.
they always point to california and detroit, as if these are good examples. california has a republican governor, and a hostile, anti-tax republican minority who has hijacked the demoratic process with their prop 13 nonsense.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 7:49pm
beam yourself up scotty, way to answer Darlas question, NOT!
Posted by Denise29 at 01/29/2010 @ 7:53pm
bring back the 90% top tax bracket.
it is in the interest of the rich to pull us out of this slump. they have the most to gain.
when the US had the tax policy I am describing, the rich did not pack up and leave, as the morons here suggest. they bragged about being in the 90% bracket, correctly deeming it the patriotic thing to do. THAT was america.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/29/2010 @ 7:54pm
Email, you had finally made it to the top of the proverbial ladder, life was good when you paid taxes to help the least among us, don't see that kind of honor anymore, sigh........ .
Posted by Denise29 at 01/29/2010 @ 8:02pm
And it was a win win situation, those with the least felt good, and, more importantly it made those in that income bracket feel good too, left and right alike. It was a different mind set, and to me a completely different world.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/29/2010 @ 8:06pm
Posted by schnellerheinz at 01/29/2010 @ 3:41pm
indeed.
ponti still wants 8 year-olds mining his coal.
unions brought about a large portion of the phenomena known as the middle class.
of course union "leadership" becomes corrupt -- isn't the "leadership" of government and business as well?
and union "leaders", just like government and business "leaders", promise to their members (voters, shareholders) the impossible in order to maintain their "leadership" despite the inevitable fiscal collapse that follows.
and
btw, it isn't really unions that are to blame for the demise of american industry.
i mean, how much has the standard of living improved for the average union worker since greenspan et al. took the throne.
the blame lies squarely at the hands of the federal reserve and its inflationary policies.
guesstimate what the cpi would be if all the products in the "basket" were made in america. (well, in 2008)
27%?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 8:09pm
What's unfair taxation to you then Darla?
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:28pm
one that uses the funds gathered to squish afghanis.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 8:13pm
The Evergreen State is not generally known for a friendly environment for business or the wealthy--see, for example, the move of Boeing's headquarters out of Washington as noted above--but for a very long time, Oregonians have been fleeing across the mighty Columbia, mostly to Clark County with its venerable seat of Vancouver. While Washington State does have a sales tax, it does not have an income tax. Schools are much better in Clark County than in Portland and much of the Oregon-side metro area. Housing prices are generally more moderate and crime is lower. Overall, life is simply better there than in much of the Portland metro area. True, the mass influx of refugees from the Beaver State has done much harm to Clark County--forcing up those home prices, increasing congestion, driving the construction of more major roads, spawning vast housing developments and ugly shopping centers that mar the sublimely beautiful landscape, bringing in urban problems such as gangbangers and the beginnings of a permanent underclass--but Clark County has also provided a decent environment in which large numbers of the refugees can live. As wonderful as Oregon once was, it has now increasingly become a failed society, though thankfully not nearly as far gone as the smoldering hellhole that is California. Welcome, huddled Oregonian masses!
Posted by feinfein at 01/29/2010 @ 8:40pm
When you speak of the "rich" are you talking about crooks, thieves, cheats and lawbreakers? If so, they deserve to be punished. I do not understand this "eat the rich" mentality. There are many many people who worked long, hard and honestly to achieve a level of success who do not deserve to be demonized for their accomplishments. Isn't that the American dream? What is wrong with people? Maybe if more people directed their energy toward accomplishments of their own they would not be so quick to rob others of theirs.
Posted by MsLillian at 01/29/2010 @ 9:35pm
uh, mask...
perhaps you should twiddle your eyes through this:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/
01/gdp-mirage-last-hurrah.html
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/29/2010 @ 10:10pm
Old myths and new whining.
I saw an interview with Mark Cuban and he made a point that taxes shouldn't be raised against businesses because the businesses will always raise their prices to cover the taxes.
He would have every right to do so.
Just as any individual has the right to ask his / her employer for a raise to make up the taxes.
Come on, where's that old Ayn Rand philosophy when it's time to apply it to oneself.
That's what you tell poor people, pull yourself up by your own bootsraps. Get a second job if you don't make enough.
If the rich don't like the tax in Oregon they have every right to move, ask for a raise or get a second job.
Posted by koroviev at 01/29/2010 @ 11:01pm
The problem is the way the tax was voted...every loon and idiot on the left will vote to tax the "rich'.....it should only be raised by a legislature...
Using the vote the way Oregon did with taxes might also be used to vote all black people out of Oregon, or anyone who doesn't believe in God the way the majority does.
It is dangerous....
and the wealthy will depart from Oregon. There would be foolish to stay...clods like Chao and Darlaloon would vote them into extinction...
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/29/2010 @ 11:40pm
I don't care if there are fewer millionaires in Maryland. A guy with $950,000 is not any worse off than the one with 1,000,001. He'll live. But we have to figure out a way to take care of those people working three minimum wage jobs to make the minimum payments on their credit cards, all thanks to globalization.
Pontilingus, Aunt Jomamma (who doesn't care what I think, but can't go a day without mentioning my pseudonym here, the sorry puss that he is), Rio Pasture and the rest are all idiots, dreaming of some fantasy land where real poverty doesn't exist and nobody's responsible outside of the poor schlubs who never had a chance.
Any of you ever been to Baltimore? I mean the neighborhood where Edgar Allan Poe died in the gutter, not the glitzy Inner Harbor staffed mostly by low hourly wage workers. It's not a pretty place, at least not the place I remember, and there are many more neighborhoods like it, in Baltimore and every other city big and small in the USA thanks in large part to the global economy.
So, if Oregon's new tax scares off a few bonus babys, well, tough luck. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/29/2010 @ 11:45pm
"and the wealthy will depart from Oregon"
good, leave. get the hell out.
Posted by darladoon at 01/29/2010 @ 11:48pm
"But we have to figure out a way to take care of those people working three minimum wage jobs to make the minimum payments on their credit cards, all thanks to globalization."
Maybe you want to do that but many of us are busy trying to take care of our own family.....I took care to educate me and mine so I wouldn't have to work 3 jobs for $8 an hour.
Since many, not all, but many of those people were edjacated by the glorious public school system by unionisd school teachers, why not let the union take care of them, isn't it obvious that if we graduate people who are trained in nothing but hourly jobs it might be the schools tha are at blame here?
Whaddaya think Kennyboy?
And Darlaloon would help by driving all the wealthy out of her state so she wold be left with nothing but hourly proletariat left ... And no one to pay taxes....wait!!!! That's California now!!!
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 12:11am
Hey YJm-Do you feel proud in shooting off your mouth?Do you really think "you" are that brilliant?I am tired of you chasing after teachers that care about their students.Do you know the circumstances of these teachers? I would seriously doubt it.Piss off,or attempt to teach kids yourself. Tell stories to other idiots who don't believe yopur B.S.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 12:20am
No, Oregon is not a tyrannical state Darla. Unfair taxation is tyrannical. As is unconstitutional use of tax revenue by government.
I have no idea why you would want to argue over that.
Posted by freiheit1 at 01/29/2010 @ 4:16pm | ignore this person | warn this person
DarlaLOON is frightened of low taxes individuals with the freedom to spend more of their own hardearned income on themselves; and even more frightened of low taxes on those creating businesses and jobs for others. Why? She is one of many who's very existence of irresponsibility and unaccountability DEPEND on entitilements extracted from taxpayers!
Without your money she would have no computor to blog the economic and political idiocy she supports!
Posted by BigPasture at 01/30/2010 @ 01:00am
"And Darlaloon would help by driving all the wealthy out of her state so she wold be left with nothing but hourly proletariat left ... And no one to pay taxes....wait!!!! That's California now!!!"
uh, we have more billionaires than all other states....
COMBINED.
and we're broke.....??
bullshit!
it's your republican friends, john, who swore, upon taking the oath of office, never to raise taxes.
and then......they complain about deficits?
the hypocrisy is so blatant it hurts.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 01:31am
"I took care to educate me and mine so I wouldn't have to work 3 jobs for $8 an hour"
yeah, and you're:
a. white
b. middle class (if not upper middle class)
c. male
consider yourself lucky, asshole.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 01:33am
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 01:33am | ignore this person | warn this person
Thanks DarlaLOON for revealing your blatant RACISM! Whats wrong, did no one tell you about affirmative action, civil rights equality, the prevailence of "quotas" in hiring, education, promotions, and reverse discrimination, or do you feel left behind by not getting to participate because you wasted it smoking all the weed you could get a hold of?
Posted by BigPasture at 01/30/2010 @ 01:40am
The Obamanation truely reflects the failed leftist ideolouges that have destroyed California and will now begin to erode Oregon! As Rep. Camp pointed out;
In yet another proposed payoff to his Big Labor allies, Obama seeks to revoke certain tax credits allowed American businesses for foreign taxes already paid on earnings in countries where they have overseas presence and employees.
"What he is suggesting is that American companies are double-taxed while foreign companies are only taxed once," . "There are only two countries left in the world that have a territorial taxation system, and the U.S. is one of them. The other one is Japan. Other countries now rebate their taxes at the border."
Obama says this will keeps jobs in America. Sounds more like a policy that could cause the mass migration of businesses and their international headquarters out of the U.S.
"It will make us much less competitive and it will kill high-paying jobs in the U.S.," . "He is really misrepresenting what the change in tax law that he is proposing will do."
How about the now-delayed-for-a-year freeze on spending?
"This idea that there's a freeze, he doesn't start it until next year, and then when he made the aside that that's the budget process, he has rescission authority right now," . "He could start reducing spending right now."
The President's attempt to lecture Congress on budget process ("That's how budgets work") caused a lot of laughter in the House chamber.
"For the President to propose this mini-freeze using numbers as if it were in effect for 10 years is not going to do anything when you just a month before signed a bill that increased spending by 12 percent," .
Posted by BigPasture at 01/30/2010 @ 01:56am
Berkely science labs that are "too white" being cut give us a clear picture of the leftist P.C. reverse discrimination at work MHL supports!
The Berkeley (CA) Board of Education will consider, at its February 3 meeting, whether or not to cancel before and after school Science Labs for Advanced Placement Science classes at Berkeley High School because the classes are attended largely by white students. The proposal is aimed at addressing "Berkeley's dismal racial achievement gap"
According to published reports, the proposal to cancel the science labs and re-allocate the money for five teaching positions to an unspecified program of "equity grants" to help struggling "minority" students comes from Berkeley High School Principal Jim Slemp and the school's Governance Council.
Berkeley Unified School District Superintendent William Huyett said the unspecified new programs could include "a course on supporting kids' scholarship -- note-taking skills, how to study -- and helps them apply those things to the courses they are taking."
Huyett, a former AP Physics teacher himself, has been quoted as believing that moving the lab classes from before and after school to inside the school day would improve participation in the AP classes by "minority" students. Huyett admits that limiting labs to the school day would decrease the overall number of lab classes available to students. The reason lab classes were scheduled before and after school in the first place was the limited number of labs on campus.
Huyett, speaking for the Berkeley High School Governance Council, says that "the six teachers (to be re-allocated from AP Lab classes)...should help all students, not only those preparing for college" and "should be used for other classes, not only science."
Posted by BigPasture at 01/30/2010 @ 02:11am
Berkeley's AP Science courses are an outstanding success. In a time when we are constantly reminded of the need for American students to get better at Physics, Biology, and Chemistry, 82% of Berkeley's AP chemistry students passed the national exam. The national passing rate is 55.2%.
Mardi Sicular-Mertens, a science teacher at Berkeley High School for 24 years, recently told the school board that her AP classes include 17.5% African-American and 13.9% Latino students. Apparently, that's not enough. Chemistry teacher Aaron Glimme said that "there is a clear difference by race as to who shows up to the lab classes."
In other words, the AP classes are open to all students, but because "minority" students don't "show up" to these lab classes in the same percentage as the percentage of "minority" students attending Berkeley High overall, the classes must be cancelled to close the "dismal racial achievement gap."
This being Berkeley, groups have organized on both sides of the issue. The BHS Science teachers have sent a letter to Berkeley parents and residents seeking support. An online petition to preserve the successful Science Lab program has hundreds of signatures.
Proponents of the class cuts cite the need to address the "achievement gap." According to the California Department of Education, while white students at BHS are 90% proficient in English, only 30.8% of African-American students are. While white students are 87.1% proficient in Math, only 31.3% of African-American students are.
The Los Angeles Times points out that other largely "minority" schools have much narrower "gaps" but cites no specific program differences between the schools or reasons for the differences in statistics between campuses.
Posted by BigPasture at 01/30/2010 @ 02:13am
I do not understand this "eat the rich" mentality. There are many many people who worked long, hard and honestly to achieve a level of success who do not deserve to be demonized for their accomplishments. Posted by MsLillian at 01/29/2010 @ 9:35pm
Those poor unfortunate "Rich People" in Oregon are being robbed and demonized! They are the unfortunate victims of their own success! Poor babies, how will they manage? They might even have to scale back on those coastal vacation homes and yachts in Newport, Waldport and Bandon! Such a shame! Poor "Rich People"!
Gimme a break....
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 05:09am
The Rich always play the "victim" when they are asked to pay their fair share. They use the commons more than any other class of people, but when it comes down to paying for it they wail and cry about how abused they are..
There are people living under bridges in Oregon. Children are not receiving a quality education or are wondering where the next meal is coming from or where they will live because a parent got sick and they lost their house. But the Rich are being brutalized?
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 05:18am
Whaddaya think Kennyboy?
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 12:11am
I think chasing your meds with bath tub gin has destroyed too many of your brain cells.
I never knew my maternal grandfather who died from pneumonia contracted while shoveling snow in some WPA program trying to make ends meet during Great Depression I. My grandmother raised my mother herself.
My parents never gave me anything. Anything I got from them I earned. I paid for most of my university education on my own, thank you, and have been gainfully employed for almost all but a few months since then.
There are five kids in my family, all self-sufficient and doing well.
These days, my mother, an FDR Democrat who describes herself as a rich widow, complains about Dems unable to muster the stones to pass a public health care plan that will allow everyone the same care that she can easily afford on her own.
My father, after having had triple bypass surgery that gave him five more years, wondered what he would have done if he were poor. We all knew the answer.
We all work hard, but we got our breaks too, breaks everyone needs.
So don't give me your holier than thou crap, especially after having had to apologize to someone here for going way past any limits of decency a few days ago.
Yep, you got yours, Johnny. You and your brethren here - Chermobyl, P. Comanche Rio, Hapless and the rest - should be ashamed of yourselves.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 06:28am
should be ashamed of yourselves.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 06:28am
I wouldn't count on that. Or hold my breath. These people are despicable.
They think we are all lazy welfare collecting tax evading socialists or communists, and don't even know the difference between the two or the fact that most of us work hard for a living.
I have been working since I was fifteen and at fifty seven am currently working 10 to 14 hours a day, six days a week driving a truck for the Postal Service. I have an online business and am taking a course in locksmithing and security.
But according to the miscreants who post here, we are just a bunch of lazy good for nothing commies.
They never cease to amaze me..
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 07:30am
Yep, you got yours, Johnny. You and your brethren here - Chermobyl, P. Comanche Rio, Hapless and the rest - should be ashamed of yourselves.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 06:28am
And you still wasnt someone elses money and want to determine what their "fair" share is according to YOUR values...evemn thon the "Rich" almost all of the taxes as it is.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:22am
And Kennybaby...
I didn't get mine...
I also worked hard, lost it once through a crime and once because of the economy....
and I got it back by working my ass off, many times with no pay...
and no banks would touch me...
And I dont want your tax money or a chunk of your pay check....
you should have that...not me....or Chao or Darlaloons of the lanD that we seem to be up to our asses..
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:26am
But according to the miscreants who post here, we are just a bunch of lazy good for nothing commies.
They never cease to amaze me..
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 07:30am
No one believes you are lazy Comrade, its just that you don't like where you are after the years of work you put in and the results of the decisions YOU made....
so you end up in a truck instead of something else that would give your more economic freedom...
sorry, but you are where you are because of you...
and you don't like where I m ight be...and want to destroy me and my ways....because you feel screwed.
thats the problem as I see it.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:30am
"I took care to educate me and mine so I wouldn't have to work 3 jobs for $8 an hour"
yeah, and you're:
a. white
b. middle class (if not upper middle class)
c. male
consider yourself lucky, asshole.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 01:33am
Wow sterotypical black female who can't do anything because of the way God made other people...
One thing worse than hopless loons is a worthless loons...and you are both...
1. White....and you are stupid for not using all the free programs you get if you are black or female. Shit, you are both and Gay, another "special" group.. I was lucky enough to work through college while my black student friends had free tuition, books, food, housing and spending money....that makes you really stupid, especialy living near Berkley.
2. Middle class...we qualified for...nothing. no help, govt programs..zip....so we did it ourselves...what a concept.
3. Male...females out number males in colleges, med schools, ect... you were stupid to miss that one...
Tell you what..I will start a company and you can be the head of it...and I will apply for all the grants, Affirmative action, female grants, minoroty loans and free caash and we will buld a business...all you have tyop do is sit on your big ass and I will send you a check...I'll do all the work..
Sound good?
Because you are black, female, minority set asides and status and even gay..you can finance the business from your couch...being white, male, and breathing I qualify for...the tax bill to get you the money.
You are totaly useless. And should be ashamed of yourself.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:44am
its just that you don't like where you are after the years of work you put in and the results of the decisions YOU made.... thats the problem as I see it.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:30am
Comrade, I don't remember decrying my circumstances or complaining about "where I am". I am proud of where I am. I am proud to be a member of a union and a part of the honorable working class that actually produces something valuable. I am a certified welder, sheet metal worker, pipe fitter and heavy machine mechanic. I worked in the aerospace industry for years.
But due to the Ayn Randian type of predatory "free market" capitalism that has plagued this country for the last 30 years my work in manufacturing came to an end. So I paid for school to become a Truck Driver so I could support myself. I am currently paying for school to learn locksmithing.
If you could get your head out of your ass... Never mind.. Why don't you just pull your bottom lip over your head and swallow it.
And learn how to spell, you moron.
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 09:08am
Good for you chaoszen, you have lived life well, and never quit, just a little pat on the back for you. :*)
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 09:39am
Posted by chaoszen at 01/30/2010 @ 09:08am
You're right. It's a waste of time. But what the hell...
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:30am
You don't wanna pay for my health care. I don't wanna pay for your wars or for highway repairs every time one of your SUV types digs a monster pothole in one of my highways. If you ARE six two two sixty something, I know you don't drive a smart car, but maybe that IS today's story, if you get my drift. A few days ago, you said your financial troubles were caused by two serious illnesses. Though maybe in Maasch land, sickness is a crime, as long as selling products to a brutal regime, who by the way, harvests human organs, is perfectly - cough cough - ethical.
So how about this?
Your car dings the roadway, you have to get out and fix it. Wanna start a war? Pass the collection plate. A member of your family gets hit by a bus, the family gets to pay to clean the blood from the bumper. Sound good? Didn't think so.
Let's hear a new MommaJo tale of woe.
And learn how spell and write in coherent thoughts.
Oh by the way, when is your brother coming by?
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 09:56am
"I was lucky enough to work through college while my black student friends had free tuition, books, food, housing and spending money"
you see, these are john's "friends" but he blames them for having to work to pick up THEIR tab!
what a jerk!
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 09:59am
I left out a word in the next to last sentence. Can you guess which one, JoeMommy?
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 09:59am
Ok a little pat on the back for Chao working hard.
So do I and do most people I know. That doesn't deserve anything special ....it is what we are designed to do.
BTW, my cousin, with whom I am very close, has been and is a union truck driver for 30 years. He has a great life free of diatribe out of the peoples manul about how the capitalist,those who earn more money than he or arrive at a different place in life have been screwed. Him or those who have not .
His philosophy is so far away from yours and yours is so far away from what this country is about and from the FF.... that you might be happier in Venz , or Cuba or another place that lives your dream of how it should be here.
People died to keep your vision of America out of here. Many died under your vision in China and USSR.
You have no understsnding of what I have been through or how I work to make my dreams and hopes for my family come true with MY abilities.
Not the govt and I dont want to carry you or pay for your visions if what my life should be.
As far as spellng, fair enough, I have trouble with small key board on iPhone but if that's your measure of a moron......my measure of one is not being able to see trends coming at you and then complain that the country screwed your or the "rich"...........
Kinda like sitting on your roof 4 days hitching at someone fir not getting your ass off, after you knew the flood was coming the same 4 days before.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:02am
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:02am
And you have no idea about anybody else's hardships, obviously. You're right, you're nothing special.
Just a dime store bully with a chip a mile wide on his shoulder.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 10:12am
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 09:56am
You might want to have a chat with Comrade Chao about those interstate chuck holes.
My car? I bought a BMW X5 in 2001 . I still drive it..burns premium and as an 8 cylinder I get 22 mpg at 80 mile an hour ...sometimes I drive faster...
I go from home to airport...
the car is 10 years old, is in mint coindition, has now 138,000 miles on it...and I have no intention of getting rid of it. After 10 years my cost of owning the car is under $ 6,000 a year.
Start a war? I am probably the only one here who has posted this statement regularily...
If America goes to war, declared or not, everyone gets a war tax..billionares to welfare recipients...we all live here, send our armys to fight and die, and we MUST pay for it. This will ensure all people have a vested interest in winning it and ending it quickly. War ends, so does tax, and war is paid for..
rst of your post is crap.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:40am
you see, these are john's "friends" but he blames them for having to work to pick up THEIR tab!
what a jerk!
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 09:59am
NO!!!!!
I blame YOU!!!
They were smart enough to take advantage of the programs...you sat home and complained the white, male, middle class screwed you....when they HAD to carry you for free...and you
gardened.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:45am
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:40am
All of your posts are crap
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 10:48am
And you have no idea about anybody else's hardships, obviously. You're right, you're nothing special.
Just a dime store bully with a chip a mile wide on his shoulder.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 10:12am
Your are right..I am not special and don't claim to be...
I am an average American...and I am happy with where I am and how I git here....and I don't want to carry you..
I don't have a chip , if I did, I'd meet you.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:49am
What you don't get Kennybaby,
is I don't care about you or your types...you are against everything I work for....and therefore are part of the problem and I won't subsidise a continuing problem.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:50am
I am all for helping my neighbor and teaching him how to fish...our schools are supposed to be doing that...today they dont even teach history or how the economy works...
they teach socialization and social engineering...all useless unless you want to work by the hour for a ynion...wonder why that is?
What I don't want to do is support dumbkopfs like Darlaoon or Chao...or you...you seem ,as does Comrade Chao, more than capable to take care of yourself....
Darlaloon, well she is so lost thats its too late and hopeless. Completely hopeless.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:55am
BTW, I drive on the toll roads to airport and back...I pay.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:56am
For a graphic illustration of why we have the most business-ignorant, and hostile-to-business administration EVER, check out the graph in:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis /Article.aspx?id=519631
... Dow Dives 53
Posted 01/29/2010 07:05 PM ET
Market: With the economy posting its best gain in six years, you'd think stocks would rally too. And so they did on Friday -- for about an hour. Then it was all downhill. Why? Ask Lincoln.
It was old Abe who said you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.
To which we'd that add you can't fool the stock market very much any of the time. It simply has too much going for it: millions of investors all over the world poring over every scintilla of evidence that could influence market direction.
And that includes government policy as well as market and economic conditions. And right now, the market seems to be saying: "It's the policies, stupid."......
Posted by Happy at 01/30/2010 @ 11:25am
"It was old Abe who said you can fool some of the people all of the time,....."
Hey, kennyboy, since I got MASK quarantined, YOU will have to fill the bill for Abe's wisdom......you're the above "some of the people"....
And your `spouse' is darlaloon!......Funny, huh?
Posted by Happy at 01/30/2010 @ 11:29am
"They were smart enough to take advantage of the programs...you sat home and complained the white, male, middle class screwed you....when they HAD to carry you for free...and you"
uh, i *earned* a scholarship, on the merits, got a master's degree, got some grants, learned horticulture, solar power, herbalism, set up a commune, etc. i never asked for anything. and can take care of myself just fine, in fact, i can take care of myself and others.
you seem resentful of the fact that there are programs to help minorities, and yet you call these "freeloaders" your "friends"? that's amazing.
i'll bet you don't have a single black friend, john.
not a coworker, but a friend. a real friend.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 12:00pm
Soak em!
Posted by Buddy33 at 01/30/2010 @ 12:19pm
i'll bet you don't have a single black friend, john.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 12:00pm
Uh, Darla, take out black and I think you got it.
_______________________________
What you don't get Kennybaby, is I don't care about you or your types...you are against everything I work for....and therefore are part of the problem and I won't subsidise a continuing problem. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 10:50am
What you don't get, Maasched potato, is that you represent everything that's wrong with US. Everyone for himself, except when it comes to war, even the pre-emptive type. Then we all have to pay.
A war tax, huh? Is that in addition to the already $1 trillion military budget or does it somehow get deducted in Gorilla Maasch math?
Why do I feel a need to shower after reading what you try to write here?
And by the way Hapless, were you just trying to insult me or something?
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 12:54pm
you seem resentful of the fact that there are programs to help minorities, and yet you call these "freeloaders" your "friends"? that's amazing.
i'll bet you don't have a single black friend, john.
not a coworker, but a friend. a real friend.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 12:00pm
All that "fre" education so you can grow pot...and work in a co-op...perfect.
Wrong again..you have the comprehension of a child.....Yes Daraloon, my black friend is a female, who, if I wasn't married, we both admit we would move to another level. I adore her, respect her, like her and would do anything for her....
And no, she's not a co worker or my bosss.
In college I dated an absolutely gorgeous black goddess from New Orleans.....even the brothers on the Marquette basketball team(NCAA CHAMPS '77) would razz me with a smile....Bo Ellis, who lived across the hall with Jerome Whitehead once saved my ass from a group of local thugs who wanted to show me why I shouldn't be dating a "sista"...and these guys threatened and throttle 3 of the bums...
My first year in college I lived(U of MInn) in the dorm accros the hall from a guy named Dave Winfield....we did a number of thin gs with each other...google him..
so spare me the white boy veiled insults..you know nothing about me...which I hope to keep that way.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 1:08pm
And by the way Hapless, were you just trying to insult me or something?
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 12:54pm
Me? Not a chance!
Folks like you need to remain "some of the people".....we love you to death, really!
Posted by Happy at 01/30/2010 @ 1:43pm
so spare me the white boy veiled insults..you know nothing about me...which I hope to keep that way. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 1:08pm
Wrong-o silly boy. We already know too much about you since you have this insatiable need to toot your own snoot.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 1:45pm
"i'll bet you don't have a single black friend, john." says lorna doon
I know I do...it is my new long lost friend...homey Obama...after that performance yesterday he is my buddy...and favorite comedian
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 3:04pm
Wow sterotypical black female who can't do anything because of the way God made other people...
•• nappy-headed hos, the lot.
One thing worse than hopless loons is a worthless loons...and you are both...
•• in the genes.
1. White....and you are stupid for not using all the free programs you get if you are black or female.
•• suck the public tit says john!
Shit, you are both and Gay, another "special" group..
•• special.
I was lucky enough to work through college while my black student friends had free tuition, books, food, housing and spending money....
•• and they couldn't even spell!
that makes you really stupid, especialy living near Berkley.
•• commies, the lot.
2. Middle class...we qualified for...nothing. no help, govt programs..zip....so we did it ourselves...what a concept.
•• left to the wind...
3. Male...females out number males in colleges, med schools, ect... you were stupid to miss that one...
•• feminazis, the lot.
Tell you what..
•• i know, them nigrahs is dum.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 08:44am
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 3:04pm
a guy named Dave Winfield....we did a number of things with each other
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 1:08pm
you have this insatiable need to toot your own snoot.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 1:45pm
apparently, his in not the only snoot he needs to toot.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 3:06pm
is
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 3:07pm
nkurland you are another knucklehead among the KVK crowd of the clueless. If Bush is his second year lowered unemployment to alltime lows how can the rate of growth be anything but low.
It has nothing to do with my point which was that lowering taxes has an immediate impact on jobs ... jobs,... idiot. And you know who finally agrees...the clueless wonder himeself..obama... who after torturing people for a year just found religion and will be providing some tax cuts to all of business..BIG and small...got that Katrina van Knucklehead
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/29/2010 @ 6:01pm
This is soo simple to understand. After the recession, the economy eeked out nominal job creation. All in all, about 2 million jobs in 8 years. It was far far below the level of any previous administration of the past 25 years, despite the fact that those years had already seen a significant slowdown. Its pretty clear that these tax cuts have had little effect on job growth.
Posted by nkurland at 01/30/2010 @ 3:10pm
good one --3:06pm-- frost!
You know, by the content of that post --if true, and I'm not seriously considering it as false--, Monsta seems like he ought to have a shred of human dignity.
I figure he probably does, somewhere, but whenever he catches a glimpse of it he runs to the bathroom to drown it in God's telephone.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/30/2010 @ 3:25pm
Oh, by the way, Scott Brown's scrotum supporter, you better get used to your buddy Barack.
He'll be officially be christened into the Republican Party just in time for the 2012 campaign season. And not a moment too soon.
Enjoy.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/30/2010 @ 3:31pm
Scotty,
Can I call just you Jacques?
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/30/2010 @ 3:34pm
Ah yes. University of Minnesota basketball -
The team has had several instances of NCAA sanctions on the program that have affected performance and recruiting. In the 1970s, the Gophers were in a violent brawl with the Ohio State Buckeyes and were barred from post-season appearances for two seasons after an incident involving the illegal resale of tickets. Still more severe was the mid-1990s academic scandal under then-coach Clem Haskins that resulted in the forfeiture of a Final Four appearance.
Correct me is I'm wrong, but wasn't Dave Winfield on that brawl team. Maybe that's what Dave-y and Maasch-y did together.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 3:34pm
And of course I wanted to say "If i'm wrong," if it matters. That Jomima typing thing is contagious.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 3:37pm
Its pretty clear that these tax cuts have had little effect on job growth.
~nkurland at 3:10pm
In any case, if tax cuts are the solution, let's cut them to zero because we all know that employment will, clearly, soar to infinity.
Just ask Ronnie "voodoo" Raygun --Dog bless 'em.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/30/2010 @ 3:39pm
In the Ohio State-Minnesota game, played at Minnesota on January 25, 1972, in the second half, Ohio State led 50-44 with 36 seconds to go. Witte went for a layup but was fouled hard. Immediately following the foul, Minnesota player Corky Taylor extended an arm to help Witte up, then kneed Witte in the groin and punched him in the head. While on the floor, he was also kicked and stomped by Minnesota player Ron Behagen, knocking him unconscious.
What followed was an extended brawl. Witte's teammate, Dave Merchant, attempted to come to his aid, but was struck in the face several times by Gopher Jim Brewer. Another Buckeye, Mark Wagar (currently the President of Empire BlueCross BlueShield in New York), was attacked from behind by Minnesota player--and future Major League Baseball Hall of Famer--Dave Winfield, who landed five punches in Wagar's face.
When order was restored, Minnesota Athletic Director Paul Giel announced the game was over and the Buckeyes were a 50-44 victor, prompting Minnesota fans to boo and throw objects as Witte was carried from the floor. Hospitalized for several days, including 24 hours in intensive care, Witte's injuries, which included 29 facial stitches and a scarred cornea, in the views of many permanently affected his career. In all, three Ohio State players were taken to hospitals.
Is that the Dave Winfield you thought to be so impressive, there, Maasch-by?
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 3:47pm
"In college I dated an absolutely gorgeous black goddess from New Orleans"
girlfriends don't count as friends, unless you're gay.
"even the brothers on the Marquette basketball team(NCAA CHAMPS '77) would razz me with a smile"
fair enough.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 3:53pm
al mcguire, great coach, btw.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 3:53pm
back on topic:
• In 1955, tax records showed that the 400 richest people in the U.S. were worth an average $12.6 million (adjusted for inflation). In 2006, the 400 richest were worth $263 million.
• In 1955, the richest Americans paid an average of 51.2% of their income in taxes under a system with a top rate of 90%, but with lots of loopholes. By 2006, the top tier paid 17.2% of their incomes.
it's good to be rich.
the rich are like the very rich diner who orders the most expensive meal, and sticks the bus boy with the check. on this site, the bus boys agitate for the privileges of the rich. whattacountry. america has lost its way.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 3:56pm
Correct me is I'm wrong, but wasn't Dave Winfield on that brawl team. Maybe that's what Dave-y and Maasch-y did together.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/30/2010 @ 3:34pm
Yup. I was at the game and Luke Witte started it...I guess Winfield finished it...
But that is the same.
I think the Yankees liked him tho....:)
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 4:19pm
al mcguire, great coach, btw.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 3:53pm
Yeah, he was fun. I went out with his daughte 1 time...made me nervous...
As far as friends...I have attended a completely diverse church for decades and I work in a diverse industry. I have traveled extensively around the world and love the different cultures...
Darla, I have many friends in many places of many colorsand creeds with whom I still communicate...last week in NY I had dinner with a buddy of mine...he is a member of the Royal Airforce.....who just came back from Haiti...he is Muslim from Cashmir province of India and is a Dr....and has a passport from UK...an amazing man..he works with the US military on leave...
I have been blessed to meet some amazing people....his stories from Haiti are mind numbing.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 4:25pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/30/2010 @ 3:39pm
"In any case, if tax cuts are the solution, let's cut them to zero because we all know that employment will, clearly, soar to infinity. Just ask Ronnie "voodoo" Raygun --Dog bless 'em."
Perhaps you could tell us the unemployment rates at the beginning of Reagan's term - and at the end, after the tax cuts - and compare and contrast. Also, please do the same thing for, say, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. If you have a better way of objectively gauging the effect of tax cuts, I'd love to hear them, it would certainly beat the recitation of your dogma that constitutes your standard method of argument.
Posted by pontificus at 01/30/2010 @ 4:25pm
All this ruling will do is force people who make $125,000 or greater to find either more tax shelters or more deductions. If the state wants to increase there revenue then they need to increase commerce. However to do that you have to offer them tax breaks based on the amount of medium to upper level jobs they create for the state. The people working those jobs will help bring more money in by paying taxes. With so many jobs going over seas companys must have either regulation or incentive to start up shop in a state. I'm sorry but after hearing how much bankers are reaping in bonuses I would think the state would go after the banking industry rather than its workers. Chances are if someone makes $125,000/yr they have student loans and other education/training debt-shouldn't they get a break based on the fact they were trying to better themselfs and become retrained for a constant changing economy.
Posted by DrPiggy at 01/30/2010 @ 4:34pm
Interesting statistics, but you left out a couple: what's the structural unemployment rate of say, France and Germany, without the millions on quasi-welfare; what's the birth rate across Europe, ie., how many years estimated until demographic implosion (resulting from sclerotic societies) and the necessarily resulting collapse of their welfare models? In short, Europe as we know it is dying - it is only sustained by importation of immigrants for cheap labor.
For public transportation, don't even go there - Europe is fundamentally different.
Posted by pontificus at 01/29/2010 @ 6:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Unemployment in Germany is currently 8.2%--lower than ours. Germany policy making can hardly be characterized as "sclerotic", though such language conforms nicely with the predictably lazy intellectualism affiliated with Anglo-conservatives taking cheap shots at European capitalism. Not all American business-types reduce the world to petroglyphic images. Even the Wharton School of Business has taken notice of German shift of economy: "Germany may become the epicenter of the world's next industrial revolution: the triumph of clean, cheap, sustainable electricity." The clean energy job sector is predicted to become Germany's number one provider of employment. An economy based on engineering and high technology industries doesn't strike me as obsolete.
I'm guessing your policy model for Germans to deal with low birth rates would have them ravage their underdeveloped neighbors to spur waves of desperate immigrants into Germany, who would then serve as modern day slave laborers. Our way is always the only way, right?
Posted by wiseman at 01/30/2010 @ 4:50pm
For public transportation, don't even go there
was ein Arschloch. take a look at the train map of Europe.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 5:08pm
the US is only sustained by importation of immigrants for cheap labor. 15 million at least.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 5:10pm
German corporations have a different method of confronting the great recession. instead of throwing workers out, they cut their hours, and preserve the jobs.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 5:11pm
Pontificus,
Your description of European survival based on cheap immigrant labor is drenched in irony. You have acknowledged as much in your sucker punches directed at unions. American manufacturing has fled the unionized, better educated, more industry diversified northern states, for the southern backwaters where workers have been beaten to submissive status for 200 years and are ripe for exploitation.
By the way, American consumers have not divorced themselves from GM, Chrysler due to high labor driving up costs. If that scenario were true they'd be seeking out cheaper cars, whereas, in reality they have shifted preferences for more expensive imports (Japanese and German cars). It's a matter of taste, and GM has been serving a foul-smelling product, once it became obvious that buying SUVs was asinine.
Posted by wiseman at 01/30/2010 @ 5:16pm
Posted by wiseman at 01/30/2010 @ 5:16pm | ignore this person | warn this person
good one. you wise, man
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 5:24pm
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 5:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Thanks. I could probably be less windy, as you demonstrated by saying the same thing I did, but with more efficiency.
Posted by wiseman at 01/30/2010 @ 5:30pm
Good day to all, I've gotta run.
Posted by wiseman at 01/30/2010 @ 5:32pm
Ponti- Unemployment data shows that Carter started at 7.9% in 1976 and by 1980 it was 6.3%.Reagan went up to 10.4% in 1983 and had come back to 5.7% in 1988.Clinton inherited a 7.3% rate from Bush #1 and handed off a 4.0 to Bush #2. It rose into the high 5's by 2004 and went into the 4's 2006 and 2007.George handed off a 7.7% rate to Obama in January 2009.I don't think tax cuts help your argument . I think these raw numbers indicate a tax cut helped the rich and no one else.Come up with a different argument please.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 5:40pm
The above post uses information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 5:41pm
girlfriends don't count as friends, unless you're gay.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 3:53pm
that's total nonsense.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 6:24pm
"All this ruling will do is force people who make $125,000 or greater to find either more tax shelters or more deductions. "
Yup...Exactly.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 6:27pm
Ponti- Unemployment data shows that Carter started at 7.9% in 1976 and by 1980 it was 6.3%
Ya ozzz that Carter was great....12-15 % inflation and 18% interest rates.......Gas lines that took two days to get through...now those were the days...now we have someone in Obama who is working on being as clueless as Carter...
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 6:29pm
Ya tax cuts had no effect under Bush...even though our country was attacked and the stock market lost $8 trillion in value AFTER 9/11 there was no impact on employment...IDIOTS!!!! COMPLETE MORONS
2005-03-01 5.2% 2005-04-01 5.2 2005-05-01 5.1 2005-06-01 5.0 2005-07-01 5.0 2005-08-01 4.9 2005-09-01 5.0 2005-10-01 5.0 2005-11-01 5.0 2005-12-01 4.9 2006-01-01 4.7 2006-02-01 4.8 2006-03-01 4.7 2006-04-01 4.7 2006-05-01 4.6 2006-06-01 4.6 2006-07-01 4.7 2006-08-01 4.7 2006-09-01 4.5 2006-10-01 4.4 2006-11-01 4.5 2006-12-01 4.4 2007-01-01 4.6 2007-02-01 4.5 2007-03-01 4.4 2007-04-01 4.5 2007-05-01 4.4 2007-06-01 4.6 2007-07-01 4.6 2007-08-01 4.6 2007-09-01 4.7 2007-10-01 4.7
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 6:36pm
Ya tax cuts had no effect under Bush...even though our country was attacked and the stock market lost $8 trillion in value AFTER 9/11 there was no impact on employment...IDIOTS!!!! COMPLETE MORONS
2005-03-01-( 5.2%): 2005-04-01 (5.2%): 2005-05-01 -(5.1%); 2005-06-01 (5.05%) : 2005-07-01 (5.05%); 2005-08-01 (4.9 %); 2005-09-01 (5.0%); 2005-10-01 (5.0%); 2005-11-01 (5.0%); 2005-12-01 4.9 2006-01-01 4.7 2006-02-01 4.8 2006-03-01 4.7 2006-04-01 4.7 2006-05-01 4.6 2006-06-01 4.6 2006-07-01 4.7 2006-08-01 4.7 2006-09-01 4.5 2006-10-01 4.4 2006-11-01 4.5 2006-12-01 4.4 2007-01-01 4.6 2007-02-01 4.5 2007-03-01 4.4 2007-04-01 4.5 2007-05-01 4.4 2007-06-01 4.6 2007-07-01 4.6 2007-08-01 4.6 2007-09-01 4.7 2007-10-01 4.7
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 6:41pm
paul volcker saved your ass, scotty.
show some respect.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 6:45pm
Scottnoser, eat sh*t and die bud.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 6:52pm
Sbs-I wonder what the effect was from the business community to Carter ?Any idea what happens when costs go up,oh that's right you are a businessman masquerading as a political analyst.When gas prices went up it had what effect on the economy?I remember those days,transportation costs went through the roof.That made the cost of all goods go way up.Don't high interest rate normally signal a way for bankers to slow down an economy?Let's move to your hero Ron who had jerrymandered the hostage release. Ron was in power when we had the savings and loan crisis and 10.4 % unemployment. He broke unions,cut tax cuts on the rich,and was the originator of CEO's becoming over compensated.He had no shame and turned his back on a tough middle class upbringing.He believed in the Hollywood magic and not having to worry about anything for the rest of his life.Hey bozo I just put the stats out there.I can't help it if our stock market dropped and we have a trillion dollar Cabinet agency called Homeland Security that arose in the Bush Administration.My question to you conservative jackass is this,How many trillions did our stock market lose when it went into the ditch on George's watch?Don't answer too quick,sonny, because I might think you are an idiotic moron.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 6:59pm
YEP Die nise29 the truth hurts doesn't. maybe you like Katrina van Knucklehead was a snot nose kid in 1976 when carter got in and have lost sight of what a clueless progressive can do to this country. Gee in KVK's case she wasn't even in Princeton yet...mommy and daddy were about to sent he away so she could become the wacked out irresponsible nut job she has become. Me I was building my own house, at 26, and figuring out how to get financing with mortgage rates at 16%, and paying off my student loans...mommy and daddy just couldn't help poor old scotty out...and there was now Obama care at the time to help. So gee wizz just had to figure that out on my own.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 6:59pm
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 6:59pm
paul volcker saved america -- show some respect.
if you had listened to mr. carter, perhaps today america wouldn't be slaves to ¡CANADA!
and you wouldn't be at war, either.
reagan was a doofus.
and you have no clue.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/30/2010 @ 7:04pm
Aw SBS, did I hurt your wittle feewings? Quick, call a Wambulance, waaa.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 7:13pm
Scottnoser, eat sh*t and die bud.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 6:52pm
snot nose dienise29, the point of these posts was the clueless and ludicrous proposition, that KVK wrote that tax increases in Oregon is just..wonderful. Yep...it was a great article to cover up thet fact that lunatic liberals have been swarming like fleas into the state of Oregon , from california, for years...and what did they get for it...20% effective unemployment..she is an idiot..you are beyond an idiot
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 7:15pm
Awww, sniff, NOT!
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 7:18pm
sorry dienise29...I forgot...you weren't born yet....and since you have never seen a history book your entire life that reflected the actual history of this country....I just realized you are simply.... ignorant....
Now go back to your TV and turn on Keith Blowbermen on CNBC, he will help you out so you really can get the straight scoop
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 7:27pm
whatozz
good posts, but I don't think you are using the word gerrymandered correctly.
Gerrymandering is a term that describes the deliberate rearrangement of the boundaries of congressional districts to influence the outcome of elections. ...
Reagan's contact with the iranians while he was running for pres were treasonous.
I think he was, like Bush2, a figurehead. he was far too dopey, even in the first term. the second term he was Alzheimered.
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/30/2010 @ 7:27pm
EmailduBois "dopey" was one of the 7 dwarfs. Dopey is also what Clinton and Obama were in college. I think Clinton mostly on weed and Obama on coke....It might explain some of the clueless behavior by both of them as president.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 7:32pm
Scottboy-After 80 years the corporate tax went from$10/annually to $150/annually.Since you are a businessman that can count I assume is this a larger tax than you pay in Massland?After 80 years of nothing they got penalized by $140/annually.The water pump job I had done on my car Thursday cost $450.You are not really crying about the $150 are you?If so go get some kleenex and wipe your eyes off.How much was the other part ,the marginal tax rate raised on incomes above $125,000?Do you know and how does it affect your typing fingers.Are the fingers that are touching the shift key working overtime?How is Denise a snot nose?She doesn't deserve a shot like that,I take offense.Your outlandish commentary makes my research look Pulitzer Prize winning.Lunatic liberals swarming like fleas,how do you describe conservatives,oh independent one.How about straight laced conservatives got catapulted over the state line in their strait jackets?
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 7:36pm
first off your good buddy die nise posted this first:
Scottnoser, eat sh*t and die bud
since you took no offense to that..I could care less if you are offended because you are a hypocrite.
Secondly, the politicians, in a state with an effective unemployement rate of 20% should be jailed for raising taxes. Who the hell do you think makes that $125,000/yr idiot...100's of small businesses that are LLC's and individuals who are the engine that drives the employemnent. Its a fucking crime to be taxing them in this economy when they are the only people who can help bring us out of this mess.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 7:43pm
Hey snotnoser, you were a twinkle in your mammas eye when I understood what the hell the rightys were up to, but nice try, oh and by the way, Olberman can run circles around Dreck, Olielly and, wait for it, Sean Insanity. Oh and don't forget your fave, Limburger.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 7:48pm
whatozz, thanks for that, I'm being really mean, but what can I say, sometimes they (SBS) deserve it.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 7:51pm
IF THAT'S TRUE DIENISE29...you are more clueless than I thought because now I can't even attribute an excuse for your moronic opinions.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 7:57pm
Well SBS, its all of a piece, I knew the difference between right and wrong long before you were born and nothing in that regard has changed I see, sorry you don't see it as well.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 8:21pm
UNEMPLOYMENT....Bush versus the EMTY SUIT
2007-02-01 (4.5%) BUSH; ( DEMOCRATS IN CHARGE OF CONGRESS, REFUSE TO CONSTRAIN and regulate FANNIE AND FREDDIE) 2007-03-01>(4.4%)BUSH: 2007-04-01>(4.5%)BUSH: 2007-05-01>(4.4%)BUSH: 2007-06-01>(4.6%)BUSH: 2007-07-01 (4.6%)BUSH: 2007-08-01 (4.6%)BUSH: 2007-09-01 (4.7%)BUSH: 2007-10-01 (4.7%)BUSH: 2007-11-01 (4.7%)BUSH: 2007-12-01 (5.0%)BUSH: 2008-01-01 (5.0%)BUSH: 2008-02-01 (4.8%)BUSH: 2008-03-01 (5.1%)BUSH: 2008-04-01 (5.0%)BUSH: 2008-05-01 (5.4%)BUSH: 2008-06-01 (5.5%)BUSH: 2008-07-01 (5.8%)BUSH: 2008-08-01 (6.1%)BUSH: 2008-09-01 (6.2%)BUSH: 2008-10-01 (6.6%)BUSH: 2008-11-01 (6.9%)BUSH: 2008-12-01 (7.4%)BUSH: 2009-01-01 (7.7%)BUSH:
DE-STIMULUS ONE
2009-02-01 (8.2%)(OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT) 2009-03-01 (8.6%)(OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMTPY SUIT)
2009-04-01 (8.9%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-05-01 (9.4%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-06-01 (9.5%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-07-01 (9.4%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-08-01 (9.7%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-09-01 (9.8%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-10-01 (10.1%) (OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-11-01 (10.0%)(OBAMA, the one and ONLY EMPTY SUIT)
2009-12-01 (10.3%)(OBAMA) and RISING!!!!
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 8:22pm
SBS-Again how much was the tax increase you are up in arms about? Will it cost $50 or $500 annually? Let's see math wizard those first two examples mean a cost of $1 to$10 weekly.Doubling that would mean $2 to$20 annually. The guys that owned the company I helped run blew a lot more money than that each week. I know what the politicians should have done,they should have thrown people out of the health care system,cut educational programs etc.Then the people that it would cost $500 could donate that amount to their friendly "independent"political candidate. Every time you comment you become less likable.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 8:26pm
"I know what the politicians should have done,they should have thrown people out of the health care system,cut educational programs etc."
Our education system as reported on national news tonight is 21st and 25th in math and science among 30 industrialized countries. We spend more than anyone else and get those results.
Our kids are only only 33% "profecient" in math and science testing...progressives and liberals, who support teacher unions, are not only destroying our educational system by allowing the worst of the worst in teachers remain in the system....we are pissing our resources away and our children are following further behind.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 8:43pm
sorry...falling further behind...
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 8:44pm
HEY OZZZ GO FOR IT>>>RAISE THEM ALL!!!!!Knucklehead!!!
Taxes in the USA:
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers ) Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers' Compensation Tax
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 8:56pm
Do you know what tax is missing OZZZ
Tax for being a mindless idiot like KVK and believing we are not taxed enough
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/30/2010 @ 9:00pm
Uh SBS"proficiunt" .
Posted by Denise29 at 01/30/2010 @ 9:08pm
SBS-Again you got carried away by the tax fever and didn't answer the question I asked, what was the marginal tax rate changed to?I am glad that I am getting you to think on the weekend.How was that crushing tax burden of $140 handled by you and your posse of corporate pals in Oregon?Let's be realistic it is nothingat less than$3 a week. I see red every time I hear the mindless drivel come out of a"professional's"mouth.My brother the teacher sees things up close every week.Maybe if we had less people worried less about their career and more about their kids education we as a nation would be better off. I am tired of it being the teachers union causing educational problems.Do you think kids are having problems in all parts of the country because of progressivism?Our 50% divorce rate wouldn't play a role would it? How is proficient spelled?It seems you can't spell either is that a teacher's union problem?Is advertising a problem in what American youth want to do today?Are you saying math and science teachers aren't making their subjects interesting to their students?What are you really saying? It seems you are saying liberals and progressives are pissing away resources.Shame on you and its a union problem.Another "independent thought pattern for you.If this is what is represented by a political independent from Massachusetts then there must be a huge "shadow" Republican party in that state.
Posted by whatozz at 01/30/2010 @ 9:57pm
gee, why wasn't scott brown outraged at the amount of spending under bush?
seems sort of.....i dunno.....opportunistic.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 11:00pm
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 11:00pm
"gee, why wasn't scott brown outraged at the amount of spending under bush? seems sort of.....i dunno.....opportunistic."
Or the fact that the deficit under Bush was $100 billion - and under Obama, it was $1.4 trillion. Seems to be a little bit of a difference there. Not that both aren't bad - boy do we need a tea party.
Posted by pontificus at 01/30/2010 @ 11:39pm
Yes a new Cabinet level Department was established to help support people that want to restrict American's freedoms,Homeland Security.Let's wall in our population so they won't flee for the better opportunity provided by CAFTA.Clinton bought into conservative ideas and look how it helped the middle class.30 years of these type of policies have led to the mess we are in today.
What have we seen in the past 18 months?Energy costs skyrocketed,oil company profits set records,and American companies went out of business.Wall Street firms used gimmicks (Derivatives) to generate revenue.The economy tanked,conservatives blamed Fannie Mae for loaning money to unqualified buyer's and causing a recession.Meanwhile said bankers, had former CEO pal in Treasury Department slot to funnel them money to cover their mistakes.The net result was greatest sleight of paper in recorded history.So called toxic assets disappeared with help from the Federal Reserve.Institutions helped by pal post record profits in 2009 and prepare to pay record bonuses to pay off their professional gambling staff.
2009 saw the Democratic effort to reform our health care industry.There are simple lines in this battle .On one side is the American public.The other side has the insurance companies who have watched our credit card companies loot the public and have itched to get involved in the looting.The good guys wanted to extend coverage and remove restrictions on it.They also wanted to rein in the modern day Jesse James style annual rite of premium theft.Republicans,led by deep thinkers like Senator Jim DeMint,declared there would be no support for this and it would be the President's Waterloo.Well we can see what happened here in the press.The tea party should set up shop on the lawn next to the Supreme Ct.
Posted by whatozz at 01/31/2010 @ 08:04am
I was at the game and Luke Witte started it
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/30/2010 @ 4:19pm
Most accounts say Witte said something nasty ... at halftime, but the Minnesota players attacked just before what would have been the final buzzer.
Go Wolverines!
Posted by kennyboy at 01/31/2010 @ 08:22am
There may also have been a hard foul on a Minnesota player, but, nonetheless, the Minnesota hoops program has been dogged by scandal time and again the last 35 to 40 years.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/31/2010 @ 08:34am
That was the best Gopher squad of my lifetime.Bill Musselman got run out of town pretty soon after.
Posted by whatozz at 01/31/2010 @ 09:13am
Wayne Rooney
Posted by EmailduBois at 01/31/2010 @ 09:25am
Katrina and the rest of these closet marxists ALWAYS cheer the advent of a new govt law to fulfill the first requirement of marxism
From each according to his ability-redistribution of wealth
And then they will all loudly protest that they are not marxists. But the facts betray them.
Posted by antisocialist at 01/31/2010 @ 09:50am
gee, why wasn't scott brown outraged at the amount of spending under bush?
seems sort of.....i dunno.....opportunistic.
Posted by darladoon at 01/30/2010 @ 11:00pm
For Lornadoon and ozzy, ozzy,ozzy( the drug crazed progressives)
Brown , me , independents and republicans by an overwhelming majority completely rejected Bush's wanton over spending. It was the lefties that did not object except for the war spending, that they hypocritically supported.
As I explained to OZZZZZZy this week, but he refuses to listen , Brown confirmed where he would start cuts on national TV today. He confirmed my previous comments and wants repeal of government pay raises, he wants freeze and cuts on government employment immediately, and he wants line by line reductions across the board...not bogus freezes that take place in 12 months by our empty suit president..... The American people, especially independents, are NOT as stupid as Obama and Axlerod look as they attempt their staged PloooooFFF remake. Obama making some marginal concessions with useless marginal tax CREDITS for business is a smoke screen for them to get in favor to stick it too the American people again with their obscene and destructive progressive agenda. WE WILL NOT BE FOOLED by these fools...and they will be defeated at the polling booths.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 10:16am
"Brown , me , independents and republicans by an overwhelming majority completely rejected Bush's wanton over spending"
(biggest lie of the day)
"Katrina and the rest of these closet marxists ALWAYS cheer the advent of a new govt law to fulfill the first requirement of marxism: From each according to his ability-redistribution of wealth"
according to your own standard of marxism, all state, local and federal governments are marxist, as they all redistribute wealth in one form or another.
"And then they will all loudly protest that they are not marxists. But the facts betray them"
what facts are those? marginal tax increases?
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 10:27am
Just remember this loony progressives. From the 30,000 ft level and view and in the end, the progressive agenda of Obama cannot succeed. if it does we are all screwed and as I suspect he was attempting we will in affect be a socialist nation.
Why, because only the private sector can lead this country out of ressession, provide the jobs and the tax base to increase the standard of living and allow us to have the resources to defend our values and our nation.
Big goverenment , state and local goveremnet exists only from taxes on those private sector jobs. The goverenment makes and produces no service or product we can trade in the world economy. Only the private sector can do that. Obama's attack on private bussiness, private banks and even the US Chamber of Commerce over the past 12 months tells me he is either cluelss to that fact...or being the ideolog that he says he isn't but in fact is, he wants us in the end to be a banana socialist republic. After all he has a signed copy of Hugo Chaves's book, persoanlly autographed.Either way this administration is the most clueless and dangerous to the US in the history of this country..bar none.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 10:37am
"Obama's attack on private bussiness, private banks and even the US Chamber of Commerce over the past 12 months"
what attacks were those? please specify.
btw, i thought the scott browns of the world were.....angry at the banks, businesses who got us into this.
"because only the private sector can lead this country out of ressession"
by your own admission, then, only the private sector can lead us into a depression as well. which it has.
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 10:47am
"because only the private sector can lead this country out of ressession, provide the jobs and the tax base to increase the standard of living and allow us to have the resources to defend our values and our nation"
actually the resources we use to defend our nation are public sector (see: the military).
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 11:09am
No lorna you just don't get it..but i will continue just for you...big government is supposed to provide the regulatory and policy that would allow private business to thrive and succeed for the benefit of all. that includes things suchs as tax policy, trade policy,etc. furthermore for business and individuals to financially succeed we cant be competeing for $$$$ that the government sucks to run their ever expanding and non sustainable growth. the government republicans and domocarts have miserably failed us.. and particularly now under the empty suit.
As far as me giving examples of the attacks I will not waste my time..they are so numerous and so frequent that its a joke. You may not see them because Obama boy has you so f'd up you can only get your information from here or the blubber boy himself Keith Blubberman
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 11:17am
"big government is supposed to provide the regulatory and policy that would allow private business to thrive and succeed for the benefit of all"
can you define "for the benefit of all"? it seems to me like your talking about "redistribution of wealth"....which is, according to larry, a marxist thing.
"As far as me giving examples of the attacks I will not waste my time"
you had time to type two paragraphs. certainly you have time to give one example.
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 11:23am
"that includes things suchs as tax policy, trade policy"
how do our trade and tax policies benefit ALL people?
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 11:24am
"because only the private sector can lead this country out of ressession, provide the jobs and the tax base to increase the standard of living and allow us to have the resources to defend our values and our nation"
actually the resources we use to defend our nation are public sector (see: the military).
Posted by darladoon at 01/31/2010 @ 11:09am
lorna after this post I realized you must be one of the core Obama supporters he depended on to get elected..the total and complete clueless crowd....the military is supported by tax dollars lorna doon paid for by the private citizen and private industry. Like I said the model in which all of this is paid for by people, who in the majority work for the government exists in this world. We certainly can follow their model which I am sure you, Katrina van Knucklehead, and obama may want to do..those examples are..the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea...have at it loorna....as Gleen Becks book said I believe...its Arguing with Idiots, didn't read the book but I did just have that experience with you.see ya..
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 11:26am
In an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" programme, he said he did not run for office to be "helping out a bunch of fat cat bankers on Wall Street".
Later on Monday, the president will meet some of the US's top bankers face-to-face.
He is scheduled to hold a meeting with executives from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase and Citigroup
interesting lorna doon...Geithner and 10 of his and Obama's administration economic advisors worked for Goldman Sachs...they, GS and MS are the only investment banks left..and he still has not "punished " them yet but creates a make belivee atmosphere for public consumption for the ill informed like you that he is. In the mean time these banks are not loaning money, and keep going behind the scenes to the "open window" of the FED to borrow money at zero % interest and loan it to FAT CAT overseas comapnies NOT TO AMERICANS for obscene profits..$3B for GS alone this "quarter"...get it Lorna..your president apparently is a duplicitous fraud it appears to some of us. Get informed, the media right now in the first district court is suing the goverment under freedom of information act to find out who is getting this money..OBAMA and ERIC HOLDER on behalf of who...you lorna are fighting this request right now in the ist district a FED appeals court in manahattan..WHY LORNA huuuummmmm
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 11:41am
OBAMA"S big TARP Scam.. Katrina how about an article on this..or are you too much of a rumpswab Where'd the Bailout Money Go? Shhhh, It's a Secret 2008-12-22, ABC News/Associated Press http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=6508158
It's something any bank would demand to know before handing out a loan: Where's the money going? But after receiving billions in aid from U.S. taxpayers, the nation's largest banks say they can't track exactly how they're spending the money or they simply refuse to discuss it. "We've lent some of it. We've not lent some of it. We've not given any accounting of, 'Here's how we're doing it,"' said Thomas Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase, which received $25 billion in emergency bailout money. "We have not disclosed that to the public. We're declining to." The Associated Press contacted 21 banks that received at least $1 billion in government money and asked four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest? None of the banks provided specific answers. "We're not providing dollar-in, dollar-out tracking," said Barry Koling, a spokesman for Atlanta, Ga.-based SunTrust Banks Inc., which got $3.5 billion in taxpayer dollars. The answers highlight the secrecy surrounding the Troubled Assets Relief Program, which earmarked $700 billion--about the size of the Netherlands' economy--to help rescue the financial industry. There has been no accounting of how banks spend that money. "It is entirely appropriate for the American people to know how their taxpayer dollars are being spent in private industry," said Elizabeth Warren, the top congressional watchdog overseeing the financial bailout. But, at least for now, there's no way for taxpayers to find that out.
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 11:59am
Sbs-How did you have the energy to do your multiple posts?I figured you would be tired out from holding up the independents and their anti tax view.I'm sure independents stuck out their chests today when they thought about the dastardly Well Permit Tax.
I am very unhappy about the crooks running our banks.I agree with you ,I just wonder where is the Republican outrage?Maybe you are a better reader than I am because I have missed the conservative concern.What concerns me is he is acting just like Mitch and the "other"guys,so you are right.
See Democrats should look out for the middle class and common Americans.You are lost in delusion over your pal's election.That is understandable.What is objectionable is your sloganeering and the phrases "YOU" use.If you are an example of a businessman and an engineer you are a disgrace.
Say what you want about "liberal" education and how unions are wrecking it.You flat ass don't get it,puke.You are talking to the wrong guy,sonny.You supported George not once but twice.
I'm upset about the banks as are any thinking American.While we argue about it the Big Banks are thinking how they can advertise the reasons for their great profitability.They are preparing to get back to their historic support of Republicans.What is the level of accountability they must have in that arena?Do you understand this?It is coming to a channel near you,The Free Speech Channel .Then United Health will chime in and .....
Posted by whatozz at 01/31/2010 @ 12:43pm
I am very unhappy about the crooks running our banks.I agree with you ,I just wonder where is the Republican outrage
Ozz just talked to my wife about this, this morning..and i agree, there is no coherent outrage..I believe, from either party...now the Republicans maybe but it sure is not going to be reported by the government, in the bag, and controlled media. that's why i just posted to KVK...write an article about this and get your progressive base outraged then we will all be on the same side...the people's side!!!! for a change
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 12:49pm
Oh ozzz calling me a disgrace , and every other name is contrary to your fearless leaders appeal. Afterall I have in my lifetime have created with MY own resources far more jobs, and higher paying and lasting jobs than your empty suit fraud president...show some respect...a hole
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 12:53pm
Give it up Darla, the guy's read Glenn Dreck's book, there is no hope for people like him, he's been brainwashed. SBS, you have been brainwashed and are now right up there with happy, barry#2, Big P, and a whole host of others that blog at the nation, no hope, nope, no hope at all.
Posted by Denise29 at 01/31/2010 @ 3:37pm
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 01/31/2010 @ 11:26am
Gee, Scott Brown's jock strap - it is what you call yourself - you male less sense than the Mosh Momma and he makes no sense at all.
Posted by kennyboy at 01/31/2010 @ 4:17pm
Way to go Brownie. Not male sense, but make sense. Either way...
Posted by kennyboy at 01/31/2010 @ 4:18pm
SbS-I haven't owned my own business ,I've just worked hour after hour to help others make their business and family's big money.I don't concern myself with myself because I know I will be O.K. I just think that the name calling got your attention.,good.We have bank crooks,insurance crooks,and political crooks.They are on both sides of the aisle.I am tired of the empty suit comment.I think it shows ...nothing on your part.I thought I was straight forward with my name calling,I am not in office and it was personal, not part of a run of the mill mindless phrase you saw somewhere.That seems to be the difference between us just like conservative and liberal .I say I'm a liberal, you are confused between libertarian-republicanism and somehow figure you are an independent.Good to know Coakley couldn't figure out where Fenway Park was.
Posted by whatozz at 01/31/2010 @ 6:57pm
In other news, Oregon is experiencing a shortage of doctors, lawyers, consultants and c-level executives. Other than the doctors, they don't seem to be noticing.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/31/2010 @ 8:31pm
srj, heehee, two times heehee.:^)
Posted by Denise29 at 01/31/2010 @ 9:23pm
All of you throwing tantrums about Oregon having too-high of income taxes, I have news for you.
I live in Oregon, and the reason we have high income taxes is because we don't have a sales tax.
We've tried to get sales taxes over and over on the ballot and they always fail.
As a result, we've resorted to income taxes for revenue, hence the reason we have higher income taxes~
Posted by Gmannygarcia at 02/01/2010 @ 12:46am
Posted by Gmannygarcia at 02/01/2010 @ 12:46am
Yeah, because everybody has to pay sales tax.
They'd much prefer a progressive income tax rate. Especially ones that come on ballot iniatives.
What do we suppose the effect of this increase in tax rates for the top 3 percent will be when it is combined with higher federal taxes when Bush's tax cuts aren't renewed?
Will the small business owners and investor-class people be inclined to stay in Oregon to get this double whammy...or will they pull up stakes and leave?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 02/01/2010 @ 07:21am
Posted by Gmannygarcia at 02/01/2010 @ 12:46am
Yeah, because everybody has to pay sales tax.
They'd much prefer a progressive income tax rate. Especially ones that come on ballot iniatives.
What do we suppose the effect of this increase in tax rates for the top 3 percent will be when it is combined with higher federal taxes when Bush's tax cuts aren't renewed?
Will the small business owners and investor-class people be inclined to stay in Oregon to get this double whammy...or will they pull up stakes and leave?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 02/01/2010 @ 07:21am
I have to chuckle at the naiveté of some who have posted here. But "Mask" garnered my attention w/the notion that for some reason, the economy prospered under GOP administrations. I just have to wonder which administration he/she speaks of. Might it be Harding, Coolidge, Hoover? Eisenhower was fortunate to have an administration that was benefiting from post war production and the influx of educated individuals under the GI Bill, it was a plus back then; but since then, under GOP administrations we've had nothing but "gush up" economics. There never was "trickle down", and the Stock Market is never a good indicator of where we really are economically. The bush Administration set completed the circle to destroy the Middle Class that the Eisenhower Administration built. If I didn't know better, (perhaps I don't), I'd have to say that GOP policies have done nothing more that destroy the economic foundations of this nation. A once great party has become little more than a group of thugs hell bent on soaking the Treasury dry to enhance the wealth and power of it's "friends". It is the Party of Greed and avarice and those who vote for it are little more than a vast pool of ignorance that votes against their own basic interests. It's not that taxes are "evil", rather how the money is utilized that comprises the "evil" aspect. A couple of trillion dollar wars begun by the previous administration have drained the Treasury to the point of meltdown. There are other things as well, but space does not allow me to go into detail. Suffice it to say, a surplus was turned into a massive deficit...under GOP rule. Happens almost every time.
Posted by rasputin195 at 02/01/2010 @ 08:14am
Posted by rasputin195
good point. hint: don't eat the poisoned cake.
Posted by EmailduBois at 02/01/2010 @ 08:29am
I Voted for both measure 66 and 67.Corporations always threaten to leave Town if You Raise Taxes. But Corporations Shed Jobs and leave town anyway. I don't beleave small Business will be effected that much by these Measures. Small Business Can't Compete with these Large Corporations. Maybe it would be good for everyone,if the Big boys leave town.
Posted by peacekeepertwo at 02/01/2010 @ 09:16am
Small Business Can't Compete with these Large Corporations. Maybe it would be good for everyone,if the Big boys leave town.
Posted by peacekeepertwo at 02/01/2010 @ 09:16am |
Really?
Then Detroit looks good to you?
GM and car jobs went to the South because of bad union deals and taxes...and all those small business that build the parts for GM, and the same small business that create 90% of all jobs in the US...are better off with the Big boys...leaving?
Really?
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/01/2010 @ 09:25am
I don't beleave small Business will be effected
affected not effected. you can thank me later.
Posted by EmailduBois at 02/01/2010 @ 11:08am
All of you throwing tantrums about Oregon having too-high of income taxes, I have news for you.
I live in Oregon, and the reason we have high income taxes is because we don't have a sales tax.
We've tried to get sales taxes over and over on the ballot and they always fail.
As a result, we've resorted to income taxes for revenue, hence the reason we have higher income taxes~
Posted by Gmannygarcia at 02/01/2010
hey now Garcia...so you think because you don't have a sales tax that increasing your income tax is OK...when you have 20 % UNEMPLOYMENT...you are a freaking genius...you are on a glide path then to be the next Massachusetts...not only do we have a sales tax we have an income tax...both of which are increasing chasing business our of the state. Its the brainless child of Gov. ( minimee ) Patrick...good luck to you and the rest of your expatrioted progressive knuckleheads from Caleeefornyaaa helping to destroy your state.
Oh...ozzz ...sorry about the empty suit comments on Obama...needless to say he is incompetent, with no relevant experience, and has shown day in and day out now that he is simply a fulltime ideolog that is constantly in campaign mode. Because that's all he knows. He certainly cannot govern...that we have established ...no matter how much you want to like him....or get a warm feeling up your leg
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 02/01/2010 @ 11:56am
here's a little news item. an unidentified party has a CD with the names of possible German tax evaders in Switzerland, which he is trying to sell to the German gov't for 2.5 million euros.
obviously Switzerland would like Germany to reject this offer.
what do you think?
Posted by EmailduBois at 02/01/2010 @ 1:35pm
I am more worried about the CD with Kennedy ( family), Obama, Kerry and half of the american congress's name on it. Gee what would we do if they all got thrown in jail
Posted by Scottbrownsupporter at 02/01/2010 @ 4:42pm