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Jeremy Scahill's important investigation into how Blackwater is working in Pakistan for the US military's Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) made waves all over the world. From a base in Karachi, an elite division of the private security contractor plans targeted assassinations of suspected Taliban and Al-Qaeda operatives. According to a well-placed source within the US military intelligence apparatus and a former senior executive at Blackwater, the company's operatives also assist in gathering intelligence and hep run a secret US military drone bombing campaign that runs parallel to the well-documented CIA predator strikes.
According to Scahill's sources, Blackwater's Pakistan JSOC contracts are secret and are therefore shielded from public oversight.
Scahill's piece was widely-reported in the Middle East; our most-trafficked piece of the month; and drew coverage everywhere from ABCNews.com and HuffingtonPost to MSNBC (see Scahill's interview on Morning Joe here) and Pakistani television. At the Pentagon? Not so much. As Scahill reports here, the Department of Defense referred the question to the State Department (even though it concerns operations under their jurisdiction). General Stanley McChrystal, the top US Commander in Afghanistan, was the head of JSOC from 2003-2008.
Scahill will continue to report on the role of Blackwater and other contractors and their links to the US military in sensitive special operations in the Af-Pak arena in the weeks to come. As President Obama prepares to announce his Afghan strategy, Scahill's reporting--along with Aram Roston's investigation from earlier in November--continues to raise serious doubts about the integrity and viability of our mission in the region.
Also, check back at TheNation.com this week for continuing coverage of President Obama's decision on Afghanistan. We will be laying out alternatives to the likely Afghan strategy, and also providing organizing tools--in the magazine at TheNation.com--for those seeking a more responsible exit strategy.
Three other items of note this week:
- The Nation has a great team heading to Copenhagen for the climate talks the week of December 7th. Naomi Klein, Mark Hertsgaard, Naomi and Rob Eshelman will be reporting live daily from the gathering, and we'll be collaborating with Mother Jones and Grist.org for some of the most comprehensive coverage on the web.
In advance of the Copenhagen talks, we went to an unlikely but compelling voice for his view on climate change: playwright Tony Kushner. Angels in America, of course, is a play (and later a film) which raised concerns about global warming and the hole in the ozone. In this brief VideoNation feature, Kushner explains why it's so difficult for artists and writers to tackle the topic of climate change, and gives his view on why change has been so slow, decades after the hole in the ozone layer captured the public's attention:
The next issue of The Nation will also feature a package on Seattle at 10 with trade & globalization activist Lori Wallach.
- How hard has the recession hit young people? You told us. In response to Lizzy Ratner's essay, "Generation Recession," young readers told us about their struggles in this economy, and their fight to hold on to hope and idealism. The reader responses are both poignant and surprising.
- Finally, if you want to support important investigative work like Jeremy Scahill's and Aram Roston's, The Nation Institute's Annual Gala Dinner is a great way to do it. In New York on December 7th, the dinner features a menu designed by the legendary Alice Waters, and remarks from Tony Award-Winning playwright Sarah Jones; Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky; and writer, activist and humorist Jim Hightower. It should be a great night; you can buy tickets here.
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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scahill is a giant. the continued presence of a private army of rightwing, christofascist, mercenary assassins on PUBLIC payroll, is a terrifying threat to the safety of the president and the security of our country.
the intellectual tribe that owns blackwater is the same that prints t-shirts with bible verses exhorting people to kill the president.
i wonder...even if obama wants to get out of afghanistan...could he?
kill that viper. its WAY too close to the power it covets...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/29/2009 @ 11:41am
Katrina...you should take some time to post how Blackwater contractors were hung on an Iraqu'i bridge like pieces of cattle. Also on how the brave Navy Seals captured the crimminals and in return , for political correctness,how Obama and his henchmen in the AG's office are now charging these hero's for fattening the lip of these swine terrorists during their capture. If you did, your Obama rumpswab article(s) could be taken seriously...you are a joke...and a mouthpiece for the most empty headed administartion since Carter.
Posted by Obamunut at 11/29/2009 @ 12:29pm
Posted by Obamunut at 11/29/2009 @ 12:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person
do you own one of those t-shirts exhorting folks to kill the president with that bible quote?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/29/2009 @ 12:39pm
by Obamunut at 11/29/2009 @ 12:29pm...
...rumpswab...
A 'pottymouthed' RW ideologist with a densely amnesiatic brain buried in a largely imaginary past?... NO!... say it ain't so, Obamunut... ;^)
http://www.slate.com/id/2236708/
Posted by ttr at 11/29/2009 @ 12:41pm
Hey maybe that's their strategy? Knock off every Taliban member and terrorist! Then we can claim victory by elimination! When is this damn war ever gonna end?!
Posted by DrPiggy at 11/29/2009 @ 4:31pm
well,who are you?i am cnn ireporter lopez9388 and some months ago i received an e mail stating that and organisation called "the nation" would become a wide newsmen entity to try to save journalism nowadays. i took it seriously and now my netbook computer reads "the nation's citicen reporters" tool you can see my work on cnn's ireport.com under manuel r. lopez on the i reports search bar, bottom right of i report's new homepage, see if i fit 'cause i see you are rather radical and my postings are rather critical on i report and to my contacts; i just asked vista print for presentation cards and t-shirt that metion i am a "nations" i reporter on cnn.com's i report, if i get no answers from you i will consider you tacitly accept my colaborations; regards, manuel r. lopez
Posted by lopez9388 at 11/29/2009 @ 4:48pm
Blackwater is used because they are effective. Note the JSOC includes Pakistan. I would hope their function was that as described above - why else would they be there, duh.
As for Copenhagen, make sure you also report on Climategate, the 800 lb gorilla in the middle of the room. I suspect Copenhagen will be a complete bust as it deserves to be. What a bunch of frauds.
Posted by pyeatte at 11/29/2009 @ 5:15pm
KvH: "The Nation has a great team heading to Copenhagen for the climate talks the week of December 7th......"
Hey, to the "great team"........have a wonderful vacation! And, make sure your emails are encrypted as you consort with the AGW fear-mongers.....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 11/29/2009 @ 5:18pm
Hey Happy, your bell on your computer must have failed to ring when a new post popped up here.What a shame ,since you weren't first you have a milk toast response.Don't you have any Scandanavian stocks to brag about.Hasn't gold made a move?I am sure the fair and balanced reporting team from Fox News will be there.Who knows maybe Hannity's team of editors will go there to authenticate the film that is shot of the meeting.You are part of a group that isn't know for it's honesty.
Posted by whatozz at 11/29/2009 @ 6:30pm
Here's some funning lauding BHO's success!
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/
Posted by Happy at 11/29/2009 @ 8:37pm
Misc. ClimateGate happenings.....non-events to the Legacy Media:
"(Michael) Mann to be investigated by Penn State University"
and
"Lord Monckton, Viscount of Brechley, and Prof. Fred Singer are requesting that charges be filed against scientists and others involved in possible violations of Britain's Freedom Of Information Laws."
Posted by Happy at 11/29/2009 @ 9:33pm
Blackwater is used because they are effective.
Posted by pyeatte at 11/29/2009 @ 5:15pm
But is effectiveness the end of the story? Shouldn't we also ask if it is 'right'?
top of the head list of thing that are/were effective:
-sweat shops
- slavery
- gas chambers
- rwandan machettes
-agent orange
-atomic weapons
-terrorism
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/29/2009 @ 11:12pm
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/29/2009 @ 11:12pm:
Ok, I'll play. In the case of Blackwater, yes, it is right. You have a problem with enemy identification.
Posted by pyeatte at 11/30/2009 @ 12:40am
the continued presence of a private army of rightwing, christofascist, mercenary assassins
the intellectual tribe that owns blackwater is the same that prints t-shirts with bible verses exhorting people to kill the president.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/29/2009 @ 11:41am | ignore this person | warn this person
Really sad how you've switched to insubtantiable totally imaginary false descriptions and hate filled attributions against christianity that you know are blatant lies. Leftist and other extremist both villify and misuse Gods word as you clearly know without support of any recognized Christian denomination that you can name.
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 01:03am
Katrina...you should take some time to post how Blackwater contractors were hung on an Iraqu'i bridge like pieces of cattle. Also on how the brave Navy Seals captured the crimminals and in return , for political correctness,how Obama and his henchmen in the AG's office are now charging these hero's for fattening the lip of these swine terrorists during their capture.
Posted by Obamunut at 11/29/2009 @ 12:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person
This is truth that the leftist would rather ignore or disavow that can be found anywhere. Their hate for America and its patriotic military servicemen knows no bounds as you may clearly witness daily at this site and others!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 01:09am
BP-You use our top notch military people as a screen time after time.You are on an ideological witchhunt in at least 90% of your posts.In fact you are the equivalent of a moving dart board.You are the hate monger and I guess a poor ambassador for your faith.Go talk with Annie shew will make you feel; better.
Posted by whatozz at 11/30/2009 @ 05:29am
Given their SUPPOSED love of the US military...
why is it that present-day right-wngers love ....mercenaries??!?!?!?!? like Blackwater?
Just knee-jerk "They kill the bad guys so I like 'em"....or something particular to Blackwater that really turns them on???
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 07:34am
Scahill continues to be an America hating idiot. He seems to find his pleasure in the possibility of increased deaths by American soldiers and writing poorly composed stories that ignore the facts.
The Blackwater operation is Pakistan is an excellent idea and as I've stated before about Blackwater-entirely constitutional.
The Constitution clearly provides for the use of Privateers and letters of Marque
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 11
<To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water>
Posted by antisocialist at 11/30/2009 @ 09:02am
Wow. Over a week since "Climategate" broke and still not a single piece of commentary from any of the Nation's blog authors.
I wonder if these people would stay silent if some "Jerry Falwell" type religious organization had it's emails hacked and they revealed what a tremendous fraud it's leaders were?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Over on National Review, they even talk about when Republicans screw up or get caught. When's the last time we saw a story about Charlie Rangel's tax evasion around here?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 11/30/2009 @ 10:16am
Wow. Over a week since "Climategate" broke and still not a single piece of commentary from any of the Nation's blog authors.
I wonder if these people would stay silent if some "Jerry Falwell" type religious organization had it's emails hacked and they revealed what a tremendous fraud it's leaders were?
Somehow, I doubt it.
Over on National Review, they even talk about when Republicans screw up or get caught. When's the last time we saw a story about Charlie Rangel's tax evasion around here?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 11/30/2009 @ 10:16am
Posted by antisocialist at 11/30/2009 @ 09:02am
See? Now why is it that Larry, our biggest militarist/jingoist....is such a fan of ..
mercenaries?!??!?? Didn't seem to need them in World War-II did we?
Or could it be that Blackwater in its methods or...philosophy...has something more appealing to Larry than our regular military forces????
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 11:17am
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 11/30/2009 @ 10:16am
Soon as the Republican Party officially states that anthropogenic climate change is "false" or a "hoax"...
then it'll matter.
Take your time...we'll wait.
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 11:18am
...we'll wait.
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 11:18am
I notice as you "wait", your whistling is getting a bit weaker? How's that AGW Kool-aid sitting in your throat as it tries to be barfed up?
You Libs are such easy marks for propaganda, peer-reviewed horseshit!
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 11:24am
Hey Happy--George W. Bush ignored the "peer reviews" (viz. UN Weapons Inspectors finding no WMDs) because that wouldn't jive with his justification for war ("we can't wait to see the evidence in the form of a mushroom cloud") ... but you don't bash W! No siree!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 11:41am
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 11:24am
Then, Happy, nothing stopping Michael Steele or the RNC from coming out with an OFFICIAL statement that the Republican position is that AGW is "not real" or "a hoax."
Or do they just let people ASSUME that because they don't say one way or the other and let Rush and Sean say it for them....because they're too cowardly to sayit themselves???
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 1:14pm
... but you don't bash W! No siree!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 11:41am | ignore this person | warn this person
Why waste the space? It is more intresting watching the leftist try to defend the apologist in chief Obamanation and Demoncrats debacle they voted in to REPLACE reason, logic, common sense, and the security and national pride of American Citizens in their country!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 2:36pm
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 2:36pm
Rio....WHO exactly voted in Obama and the Democratic Congress?
Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 2:48pm
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 11:24am Then, Happy, nothing stopping Michael Steele or the RNC from coming out with an OFFICIAL statement that the Republican position is that AGW is "not real" or "a hoax." Or do they just let people ASSUME that because they don't say one way or the other and let Rush and Sean say it for them....because they're too cowardly to sayit themselves??? Posted by Mask at 11/30/2009 @ 1:14pm | ignore this person |
--finally mask, now you're asking some questions I like!
you know why this question is good Mask--'cause conservatives fancy themselves "manly." And it's very un-manly to not come out and say global warming is a hoax if the republicans believe it to be so.
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 2:51pm
... but you don't bash W! No siree! Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 11:41am | ignore this person | warn this person
Why waste the space? It is more intresting watching the leftist try to defend the apologist in chief Obamanation and Demoncrats debacle they voted in to REPLACE reason, logic, common sense, and the security and national pride of American Citizens in their country! Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 2:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--you're not to be taken seriously if you think George W. Bush represented reason, logic, common sense, security, or national pride (or pride of any kind).
Here's a logical question--is your life bereft of real meaning that you need to argue with (or be entertained by) anonymous people you never agree with? what's the matter--no interesting people in the real world to spend time with?
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 2:56pm
Happy--the republicans are very un-manly huh? what a bunch of pussies for not coming out and saying global warming is a hoax! cunts, even!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 3:16pm
Happy--the republicans are very un-manly huh? what a bunch of pussies for not coming out and saying global warming is a hoax! cunts, even!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 3:16pm
A already posted elsewhere, probably the coal thread, that human's impact is uncertain. I'm all for the Repubs coming out and state so.
To deny some possibility of man-induced climate change (not necessarily warming, could be cooling which is more along my suspicion) is almost as stupid as MASKian faith in AGW!
Heard Rush say something today....the UN two years ago, pushed for and admitted that AGW as a religion...or something to that effect! Unreal but.....real!
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 4:19pm
A already posted elsewhere, probably the coal thread, that human's impact is uncertain. I'm all for the Repubs coming out and state so.
To deny some possibility of man-induced climate change (not necessarily warming, could be cooling which is more along my suspicion) is almost as stupid as MASKian faith in AGW!
Heard Rush say something today....the UN two years ago, pushed for and admitted that AGW as a religion...or something to that effect! Unreal but.....real!
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 4:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--but some "man-induced climate change" isn't equivalent to global warming alarmism. wish, meet wash; you're both unclean!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 4:44pm
wish, meet wash; you're both unclean!
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 4:44pm
I'm sorry I overrated you.....
Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 5:33pm
wish, meet wash; you're both unclean! Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 4:44pm I'm sorry I overrated you..... Posted by Happy at 11/30/2009 @ 5:33pm | ignore this person |
--are you talking to your gold?
Posted by urmygyro at 11/30/2009 @ 5:52pm
You have a problem with enemy identification.
Posted by pyeatte at 11/30/2009 @ 12:40am
I have no enemies.
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/30/2009 @ 5:55pm
In the case of Blackwater, yes, it is right.
Posted by pyeatte at 11/30/2009 @ 12:40am
Do you think that any of Blackwater's behavior was shameful? Haven't Jeremy Scahill's reports disturbed you?
I can see how someone could say that using hired thugs instead of the public military is warranted. I'd disagree, but i could understand that position. But to say that the relationship between the governemt and Blackwater has been "right".... boggles me, actually.
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/30/2009 @ 6:01pm
Really sad how you've switched to insubtantiable totally imaginary false descriptions and hate filled attributions against christianity that you know are blatant lies. Leftist and other extremist both villify and misuse Gods word as you clearly know without support of any recognized Christian denomination that you can name.
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 01:03am | ignore this person | warn this person
Psalm 109 For the director of music. Of David. A psalm. 1 O God, whom I praise, do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me; they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me, but I am a man of prayer.
5 They repay me evil for good, and hatred for my friendship.
6 Appoint [a] an evil man [b] to oppose him; let an accuser [c] stand at his right hand.
7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him.
8 May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off, their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD; may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the LORD, that he may cut off the memory of the
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/30/2009 @ 6:37pm
Psalm 109 For the director of music. Of David. A psalm. 1 O God, whom I praise, do not remain silent,
2 for wicked and deceitful men have opened their mouths against me; they have spoken against me with lying tongues.
3 With words of hatred they surround me; they attack me without cause.
4 In return for my friendship they accuse me,
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness, but hounded to death the poor and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse-- may it [e] come on him; he found no pleasure in blessing-- may it be [f] far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment; it entered into his body like water, into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him, like a belt tied forever around him.
20 May this be the LORD's payment to my accusers, to those who speak evil of me.
21 But you, O Sovereign LORD, deal well with me for your name's sake; out of the goodness of your love, deliver me.
22 For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me.
23 I fade away like an evening shadow; I am shaken off like a locust.
24 My knees give way from fasting; my body is thin and gaunt.
25 I am an object of scorn to my accusers; when they see me, they shake their heads.
26 Help me, O LORD my God; save me in accordance with your love.
27 Let them know that it is your hand, that you, O LORD, have done it.
28 They may curse, but you will bless; when they attack they will be put to shame, but your servant will rejoice.
29 My accusers will be clothed with disgrace and wrapped in shame as in a cloak.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/30/2009 @ 6:38pm
-sweat shops =Nancy Pelosi
- slavery = Demoncrat party entitlements
- gas chambers = baby killers
- rwandan machettes = who were hutus and tutus?
-agent orange = Demoncrat war materials of JFK LBJ
-atomic weapons= Demoncrat FDR H. Truman
-terrorism = no such thing= Obamanation and Demoncrats
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/29/2009 @ 11:12pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 6:41pm
Really sad how you've switched to insubtantiable totally imaginary false descriptions and hate filled attributions against christianity that you know are blatant lies. Leftist and other extremist both villify and misuse Gods word as you clearly know without support of any recognized Christian denomination that you can name.
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 01:03am | ignore this person | warn this person
ok...its pretty long, the entire psalm, and i cut some off.
here's the link, rio, if you need it, for the whole thing.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm+109&version=NIV
anyway, indeed, only the 8th verse is referred to on the t-shirt in question,
"8 May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership. "
so what here am i misinterpreting or twisting, RIO?
his days few? ok, in fairness, we could be thinking in terms of larger time scales, perhaps "few" referring to the remainder of days in his first term...ok...gee...
i'm starting to feel kinda bad here, folks...maybe i inferred something i should not have...my "liberal" sense of fairness, my urge to conciliation and happy cumbaya camp fire singing and lets all just learn to live together are hitting me...feeling guilty...
but wait, says my demon...is this all? is there anything before or after this quote that those who paid good money to print it might possibly maybe have had in mind like perhaps...
9 May his children be fatherless and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars; may they be driven [d] from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has; may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him or take pity on his fatherless children.
CONTINUED
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/30/2009 @ 6:46pm
13 May his descendants be cut off, their names blotted out from the next generation.
14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD; may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
15 May their sins always remain before the LORD, that he may cut off the memory of the
16 For he never thought of doing a kindness, but hounded to death the poor and the needy and the brokenhearted.
17 He loved to pronounce a curse-- may it [e] come on him; he found no pleasure in blessing-- may it be [f] far from him.
18 He wore cursing as his garment; it entered into his body like water, into his bones like oil.
19 May it be like a cloak wrapped about him, like a belt tied forever around him.
well now RIO...
are you telling me that those fine christians who had those t-shirts printed had no knowledge of the context of that quote?
are you going to try to tell me that my anti-christian deviltry has twisted those words?
do not confuse me with someone who is stupid.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/30/2009 @ 6:50pm
Hey Katrina ,
NEWS FLASH!!! THERE IS NO GLOBAL WARMING!!!! Its all a hoax. Get your guys in Copenhagen on it ASAP . Why arent we reading about it here?? Why arent we reading about the millions of american jobs lost as a result of this hoax on this site??? Ohhh yes I forgot your journalistic integrity wont allow you to report it because it was obtained illegally. Just the same way Im sure you wouldnt have reported about or printed the transcript of Newts call to Boehner back in 95 recorded by the 2 old geezers in Florida. You Ms KVH as the editor, are a disgrace to journalism .
Posted by limoman at 11/30/2009 @ 9:57pm
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 6:41pm
whaaahahat??!!
this is the silliest thing i've ever read here. maybe anywhere.
exasperating.
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/30/2009 @ 10:02pm
the continued presence of a private army of rightwing, christofascist, mercenary assassins
the intellectual tribe that owns blackwater is the same that prints t-shirts with bible verses exhorting people to kill the president.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/29/2009 @ 11:41am | ignore this person | warn this person
Really sad how you've switched to insubtantiable totally imaginary false descriptions and hate filled attributions against christianity that you know are blatant lies. Leftist and other extremist both villify and misuse Gods word as you clearly know without support of any recognized Christian denomination that you can name.
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 01:03am | ignore this person | warn this person ---------------------------------
well now RIO...
are you telling me that those fine christians who had those t-shirts printed had no knowledge of the context of that quote?
are you going to try to tell me that my anti-christian deviltry has twisted those words?
do not confuse me with someone who is stupid.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/30/2009 @ 6:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person ---------------------------------------
I see no proof this came from any recognized Christian denomination nor that any support such?
All I found is an MSNBC hate fest against a zaggle.com that printed it! There is no basis I see for such claims!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 10:57pm
this is the silliest thing i've ever read here. maybe anywhere.
exasperating.
Posted by Blair Wooff at 11/30/2009 @ 10:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Funny I thought the same about your post it is based on!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 10:59pm
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 10:59pm
yeah, no doubt. But then what you're supposed to do is argue against it. I was making a point about the problems possible when 'effectiveness' is the only guide to action.
you - well, i don't even know what you were saying. Nancy Pelosi equals sweat shops??!! Terrorism doesn't exist??!! just very strange, silly and hard to follow.
Posted by Blair Wooff at 12/01/2009 @ 06:22am
All I found is an MSNBC hate fest against a zaggle.com that printed it! There is no basis I see for such claims!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/30/2009 @ 10:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person
now THAT'S a legitimate point. i understand that all christians, even right wing christians, cannot take responsibility for the actions of all christians...
you didn't have 'em printed, did you????
;)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 12/01/2009 @ 09:47am