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Chuck Collins, co-founder of United for a Fair Economy and a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, describes the difference between this financial crisis and those of the past.
"The risk of this economic crisis is that people stay isolated, hunkered down and afraid," Collins says. "What's different from the serious economic crises of the past is the much greater potential for fragmentation and isolation--because we've lived through a couple generations of 'you are on your own' economics. So the idea that we can trust any kind of shared response is broken."
That's why in January 2009 the Institute for Policy Studies piloted Common Security Clubs to break through the isolation, and bring people together to learn, help one another increase their economic security, and ultimately take political action. The clubs are not an effort to turn away from government, in fact they are in part an effort to develop the skills and solidarity needed to advocate for a government that work for the common good.
"It's a way to organize the vast, anxious, unconnected public," Collins says. "It's really important to get people together, away from their isolation, and the sense that they should figure this out on their own. Learning together--people learn the economy is not a weathered event here, people caused this economic crisis, this could have been prevented. Now we have to get active to make sure this doesn't happen again."
There are now over one hundred clubs, averaging fifteen to twenty people, across the nation--with clusters in Oregon, Washington, Michigan, Maine, Massachusetts, and North Carolina. Over 900 groups or individuals have requested the facilitator guide and other club materials but IPS doesn't have the resources to track everyone. Some religious and community groups have used the materials to go in their own direction.
"It's sort of taken off and has a life of it's own," Collins says.
The clubs are all founded on three key principles: learning together, mutual aid, and social action. Every two weeks a round-up of good learning resources is circulated to participating clubs. It might include anything from a good Bill Moyers' interview or a Jonathan Schell piece in The Nation, to a story of a rent party with a band or an effort to weatherize one another's homes to cut fuel costs, to ideas for political action. Members have helped one another network for jobs, strategize personal budgets, and find ways to be more frugal. They barter services--for example, swapping yard work for childcare or computer skills for language lessons. They have lobbied Congress on legislation to stop foreclosures, protect consumers, and rein in Wall Street.
"In a way it's very simple, but at the same time it's kind of radical," Collins says. "It's basically people coming together, learning together [about this crisis], and mutual aid. And then people are much more eager and engaged to be part of social action--they see the limits of what they can do at the local level."
It's that combination of radical simplicity that is so appealing. And as radical as it might seem first glance, it does have roots in our recent history. Certainly our ancestors, and immigrants, have relied on helping one another, building community, in order to lead productive, secure lives. Collins also speaks of the Depression, when people formed sewing circles, threw rent parties, started soup kitchens.
"Now, more people are disconnected," he says. "We don't live near each other, the exurban community--there is a foreclosed house, next to a house where people are doubled, tripled up in it, next to another foreclosed house. People are at home watching TV. There used to be more connection between people--our mutual aid muscles are a little out of shape. We need to get them back in shape. It's a necessary precondition for a healthy democracy."
One of the most appealing aspects of these clubs is that many are multi-generational. In fact, a special youth edition of the facilitator's guide was developed drawing on the work of Tamara Draut. Collins notes that it is people beginning their careers--in their twenties and thirties--and people in their mid-fifties, who are "really getting clobbered" in this crisis. He describes the coming together of older and younger people in his own church-based club in Boston.
"Several women lived through the Depression," he says. "They have all kinds of skills that the younger people in our group are hungry for--how to preserve food, how to do canning, how to mend clothing, and prepare simple, low-cost meals that are healthful. They have all kinds of domestic arts skills that society stopped valuing. Our younger people are excited to learn from them."
Once the clubs develop trust as a group, and begin helping one another, it opens opportunities for political action and pressing for policy changes--whether fighting foreclosures in the neighborhood, advocating for a Consumer Financial Protection Agency, or beginning to take a new look at the global economy.
"You can't really have a solidarity economy if you don't have an experience of solidarity--meaning an injury to you really matters to me," Collins says. "Once people experience a sense of agency--a sense of power--around the economy, it will lend itself to greater global justice policies."
In this downsized age of "you're on your own" inequality, where the economy and political power seem rigged for the wealthy and stacked against everyone else, this movement to declare that we will no longer accept isolation and the status quo--or a government that maintains it--is invaluable.
"In the end, it's not really that complicated--it's getting people together," Collins says. "And the most important thing is the sense that people feel of being held by a group--that they will not fall. There are people watching their back--people who are thinking about them every day. In our insecure society a lot of people are afraid of falling through the cracks and that no one will care."
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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I applaud much of what they are attempting.
But I started laughing as I read the article because I could not imagine the Nation promoting what is usually a conservative idea.
Individuals and communities finding their solutions WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL GOVT!
I can hardly wait for the usual band of leftists to tell just how much better it would be if the govt would infuse tax dollars into this.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 3:22pm
Here's another interesting explanation:
We live in a finite world. It is clear that at some point, we will eventually start hitting limits--we won't be able to extract as much oil, or we won't be able to mine as much silver or platinum, or fresh-water aquifers that have built up over millions of years will run dry.
We are reaching limits in several areas, but the one I would like to talk about here is oil production. Oil is essential, because nearly all transportation depends on oil, and because a huge number of goods use oil in their manufacture (including textiles, pharmaceuticals, pesticides, asphalt, plastics, lubricating oils, and computers). Oil is also essential for our current agricultural system--growing food and transporting it to market.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5969
Posted by srjenkins at 11/18/2009 @ 3:29pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 3:22pm
You are missing the point, LARRY!
It was CONSERVATIVE policies that created the "culture of selfishness" at the core of a disconnected America. Reagan told us to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps", and people started to accept the premise that you don't need "any one" and asking for help is a sign of weakness or failure.
Reconnecting Americans with other Americans is long overdue, and I applaud the efforts of the Common Security Clubs to this end.
Posted by Metteyya at 11/18/2009 @ 4:19pm
"Individuals and communities finding their solutions WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL GOVT!"
i guess those same communities don't use any roads, schools, libraries, police departments, fire departments, water (!), electricity, etc, etc....
or aren't protected your mighty military, larry.
Posted by darladoon at 11/18/2009 @ 6:10pm
"Individuals and communities finding their solutions WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL GOVT!"
i guess those same communities don't use any roads, schools, libraries, police departments, fire departments, water (!), electricity, etc, etc....
or aren't protected your mighty military, larry.
Posted by darladoon at 11/18/2009 @ 6:10pm
That answer once again Darla shows that you don't have a clue.
Nowhere have I said (including in the post you reference) that there is ZERO place for govt. And everything you listed other than the military is state and local govt where citizens pay property taxes or user fees to maintain these services.
But the article was talking mainly about social services. As noted in this paragraph from Katrina VH.
<to a story of a rent party with a band or an effort to weatherize one another's homes to cut fuel costs, to ideas for political action. Members have helped one another network for jobs, strategize personal budgets, and find ways to be more frugal. They barter services--for example, swapping yard work for childcare or computer skills for language lessons.>
yet leftists like yourself want govt to step in and provide funding for issues like these or similar.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 6:43pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 6:43pm
I am saving an I LOVE GOVERNMENT bumper sticker for you, Larry! They are going fast, but if you send me a mailing address, I will send it to you!
Posted by Metteyya at 11/18/2009 @ 7:30pm
'...yet leftists like yourself want govt to step in and provide funding for issues like these or similar.'
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 6:43pm...
Your suggestion is posed with an implication... that government had nothing to do with our current economic predicament. I am not referring to "government" as a pathological ideology... but to a specific administration's ideology... namely the Bush administration... the one you so ardently supported and set the stage for...
The reason 'leftists' are up in arms about the current crisis's need for economic infusion, is that the 'constraints' on everything from green technology to health care to high speed rail... to any domestic improvement... have been artificially created... by the lax regulatory climate fostered by your 'well elaborated on' political orientation.
They have also been backburnered by an incessant and costly military itch... which simultaneously distracts the population at large from what would otherwise be in its best interest... and spends a great deal of money that can a best bring only dreams of imperialism, because those hard earned taxpayer dollars do not actually create consumer goods or 'value added services'.
You say... "Its the war machine or nothing"...
We say... "Americans deserve a better choice, and have deserved it for a very long time".
Posted by ttr at 11/18/2009 @ 8:53pm
KvH: "......the difference between this financial crisis and those of the past...."....is that people stay isolated, hunkered down and afraid," Collins says.
Me thinks Collins is out beyond Left Field.
The actual difference is that those most affected by the current "crisis", have the gut feeling that the Magic Economy, just won't be able to bounce back like "those of the past" they have experienced.
Those in the mid-fifties "who are "really getting clobbered"", remember the Carter years and the mess Reagan was tasked to clean up....and they know, this time, it's even worse since there are 3 more years of this Maginomics yet to come.
Posted by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 9:14pm
Here's what I was talking about in the prior comment, Magicnomics:
Obama warns on US public debt pile
By Edward Luce in Beijing and Krishna Guha in Washington
Last updated: November 18 2009 21:07
US President Barack Obama warned that the US economy could head into a "double-dip recession" unless urgent steps were taken to rein in mounting public debt......
===========================
Here in this "crisis", we have the Arsonist-in-Chief, that's BHO, not only pouring high-octane jet fuel but yelling "Fire" to warn the faithful!
You really, really can't make this stuff up.....
But then, Magic is The One to his flock.
Posted by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 10:23pm
--You really, really can't make this stuff up..... --
by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 10:23pm...
Oh yes you can... and you obviously encourage others to as well.
--the Magic Economy--
by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 9:14pm...
Greenspan's economy was 'the magic' economy... and the public debt has little to do with Obama.
Don't make me put you on ignore, Happy...
Posted by ttr at 11/19/2009 @ 12:07am
KVH is really missing the boat on this one. We already have a major group fighting for the very life of the continuation of American society that can be counted in the millions!
They are called TEA PARTIES and they defy politics on behalf of the American citizens and taxpayers who are bearing the brunt of governmental inaction and wrong headed decision making by the current Obamanation administration and Demoncrat congress! Watch the 2010 and 2012 elections and find out!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/19/2009 @ 02:01am
Posted by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 10:23pm
How much of the Stimulus Bill is contributing to this year's deficit, HAPP?
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 07:38am
Posted by BigPasture at 11/19/2009 @ 02:01am
WHICH "Tea Parties", Rio?
"Tea Party Express" or "Tea Party Patriots"...both claim to be the "official" Tea Party.
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 07:39am
Now that the people suffering through this are learning the good old-fashioned values of such things as home canning, can we look forward to the masters of the universe learning the good old-fashioned value of bankruptcy as the result of financial mismanagement? Or will the banks executives and car company bosses and real estate barons remain stuck in the modern age of government bailouts?
Posted by Mistral at 11/19/2009 @ 08:48am
"The clubs are not an effort to turn away from government, in fact they are in part an effort to develop the skills and solidarity needed to advocate for a government that work for the common good."
KVH
"I applaud much of what they are attempting.
But I started laughing as I read the article because I could not imagine the Nation promoting what is usually a conservative idea.
Individuals and communities finding their solutions WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL GOVT!"
Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 3:22pm | ignore this person | warn this person
i like the way you imputed your neurotic anti-gubbamint mania into this.
the biggest danger gubbamint poses the average schmuk is when its in the back pockets of a few wealthy and powerful satano-aynrando fanatics.
otherwise, gubbamint can be the only thing standing between the wolves and the lambs, and so its quite logical that the wolves would do everything they can to dupe the lambs into thinking their most effective protector is their worst enemy...or, as i said, simply kill the sheepdog and watch over the flock themselves, taking choice juicy schmuk-sheep at their leisure.
watch your flock, shepherd - the wolves you trust to guard them never stop being hungry.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 09:58am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 09:58am
Now, Ibb, you KNOW that the Government is only supposed to protect us from those millions of jihadists ready to land their invasion craft on the Jersey shore any day now if we don't stay in Afghanistan "until victory" or let Israel do what it wants....
and not to involve itself in whether or not 10 year olds, expressing their own initiative, want to work in an un-regulated coal mine or whether Oscar-Meyer wants to put rancid meat in the b-o-l-o-g-n-a!
Anybody disagreeing is clearly a "marxist who hates America!"
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 10:11am
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 10:11am | ignore this person | warn this person
i'm so grateful for the internet. as a souf crakalakan by birth and socialization, i have all my life been forced to associate with followers of this crackpot evil enabling brain-crack, and in order to avoid face punching unpleasantness, have learned to temper my forced hypocrisy and pseudo-ketman in social situations by generating a genuine affection for my enemies as they are...
makes life a little easier...
but i will suffer no such foolishness online.
still love my enemies, but online i punch them in the face when needed.
i like all the righties who come here...remind me of some of my family and friends back home...but so what?
when they need a face punching, i care enough about them to punch them in the face?
ah, the wise compassion of kind cruelty...cathartic!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 10:36am
we have created an economy and society based upon fear, violence, trauma, and disrespect for real work.
the ideologized satanists who have played god for decades have succeeded in creating a satanic system that feeds upon all the basest, most reptilian, evolutionarily determined meanness, callousness, sadism, and civilization/species destructive selfishness.
and that's how they like it. by keeping those who would oppose them isolated, scared, unhealthy, confused, hopeless...
THEY WIN!!!
how dare the worm turn! how dare the despised rise up and oppose! how dare the decent proclaim the truth and band together for protection from the wolves and sharks who prey upon them!
THE GALL!!!!
and gee gosh golly...if enough of them deadbeat, down-and-out, glomming, despised band together and start cogitating and ruminating and planning and plotting...
they might end up seeing the wolves for what they are and decide a good culling is the best answer.
and they'd be right.
sorry real wolves - you are noble and deadly creatures who kill to eat, and a useful part of the ecosystem, not a pack of murderous satanic parasites. sincere and profound apologies to all wolfdom if i offended.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 10:53am
otherwise, gubbamint can be the only thing standing between the wolves and the lambs
watch your flock, shepherd - the wolves you trust to guard them never stop being hungry.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 09:58am
The Federal govt is the wolf.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 11:54am
otherwise, gubbamint can be the only thing standing between the wolves and the lambs
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 09:58am
"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain, 1894
More from Mark Twain
"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session."
"The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin."
That's the difference between governments and individuals. Governments don't care, individuals do. - A Tramp Abroad
The mania for giving the Government power to meddle with the private affairs of cities or citizens is likely to cause endless trouble, through the rivaly of schools and creeds that are anxious to obtain official recognition, and there is great danger that our people will lose our independence of thought and action which is the cause of much of our greatness, and sink into the helplessness of the Frenchman or German who expects his government to feed him when hungry, clothe him when naked, to prescribe when his child may be born and when he may die, and, in fine, to regulate every act of humanity from the cradle to the tomb, including the manner in which he may seek future admission to paradise.
- "Official Physic"
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 11:58am
Will Rodgers on Government and Politicians
<About all I can say for the United States Senate is that it opens with a prayer and closes with an investigation.
Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what's going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?
Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.
If you ever injected truth into politics you have no politics.
It's easy being a humorist when you've got the whole government working for you.
Our constitution protects aliens, drunks and U.S. Senators.
There ought to be one day - just one - when there is open season on senators.
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it.
The only difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets.>
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 12:08pm
The Federal govt is the wolf.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 11:54am | ignore this person | warn this person
"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress."
Mark Twain, 1894
especially when they become bought-and-paid-for quisling retainers of wicked parasites and leave behind any consideration for those upon which the parasites prey.
"Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what's going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate? "
the senate in ancient rome was not a very democratic institution. it was a gentleman's club of former office holders who sat for life.
according to the roman constitution it was the assembly that held the real power, a collection of plebian roman citizenry who met and voted in direct democratic fashion to elect those officials who would later serve as senators.
as rome expanded geographically it failed to come up with the ingenious concept of representational democracy, sticking to an archaic and increasingly n0n-functional system that was easily corrupted by the wealthy and powerful parasites who maintained armies of desperate parasites in rome, m0llified by bread and bloody circuses, to vote as they were told at assembly meetings.
how could an average, destitute, plebian roman citizen living in what is now say, milan, leave his raggedy farm and take a week off to travel to rome and vote in the assembly?
he could not - roman democracy had already by the end of the social wars, been co-opted and debased by the oligarchic elite for their own purpose.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 12:29pm
another factor that led to the demise of the empire was the fact that it prospered only when it could expand. her wealth relied largely on the existence of lands and peoples to conquer, rape of treasure and wealth, and enslave - literally and indirectly by tax farming.
not unlike the mongols or any other aggressive ancient power that relied upon conquest for wealth, when it could no longer function thusly and its elites could not countenance making the changes that would have been needed to survive - they failed.
how unlike those silly ninnies are we with our something for nothing, snake-eating-its-own-tail-when-all-other-nutrition-has been-exhausted style economics?
gubbamint bad? really?
who the hell says? who told you that?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 12:34pm
How much of the Stimulus Bill is contributing to this year's deficit, HAPP?
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 07:38am
Too much, that's how much!
Posted by Happy at 11/19/2009 @ 12:40pm
gubbamint bad? really?
who the hell says? who told you that?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 12:34pm
"Who you gonna believe? Me or your lying eyes?"
All I have to do is look at our Federal govt and how they operate and I can easily draw that conclusion
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 1:08pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 1:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person
and yet you look at the inefficient, death dealing for-profit mess of a "health care" system and see no possibility that there exist wickedness, oppression, waste, theft, and all manner of perfidy in the private sector...
i hate to go here, but what specifically are you talking about in terms of the federal government? i'm quite positive we can both find instances of profound imperfection and perfidy in government...
especially since it has been dominated by those whose disrespect and hatred of it (and its potential to check their self serving destructiveness) have colored every action of theirs since they BOUGHT it all up and proceeded to "drown it in the bath water"!
hell, if i were a ketman practicing human torpedo i bet i could screw up any institution or organization i insinuated myself into...
time to join the republican party? perhaps it is...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 1:25pm
and yet you look at the inefficient, death dealing for-profit mess of a "health care" system and see no possibility that there exist wickedness, oppression, waste, theft, and all manner of perfidy in the private sector...
i hate to go here, but what specifically are you talking about in terms of the federal government? i'm quite positive we can both find instances of profound imperfection and perfidy in government...
time to join the republican party? perhaps it is...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 1:25pm
Nowhere have you read a post by me lauding the private healthcare system.
One of the worst places to go when your sick is a hospital-public or private.
The first problem with our Federal govt is that it is comprised of politicians and bureaucrats. Neither is particularly useful or productive.
If I had my way, Congress would only meet a few times a year. the less opportunity they have to meet, the less likely they are to reward themselves and punish US citizens.
there are some good things. We have to have a justice system and ours is as good as any in the world.
We have to defend ourselves and so by necessity, we have to have a military. But, that doesn't mean I think the military is perfect either. Remember, I worked in the Defense industry. I worked first hand with Congressman, Military procurement officials (both civilian and military. I saw both the corruption in Congress (Dem and Republican), and incompetence with the procurement end.
We have to have nation highways and Rail.
I won't recommend joining the Repubs-not until they show they are serious about leading a constitutional govt.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 1:41pm
Too much, that's how much!----Posted by Happy at 11/19/2009 @ 12:40pm
How much is that...in specific numbers?
Or a percentge, what percent of this year's deficit is from the Stimulus Bill?
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 1:55pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 1:25pm
Ibble, you got to keep in mind....Larry doesn't support HEALTH CARE...not just health care reform or health care insurance.
He's a "God calls you...it's time for you to go"...."holistic home remedies"...etc. neo-Luddite.
You're fighting a standard Maasch/Happ/Darin libertarian/con fight...
when you're dealing with a "Theodoric of York, Medieval Barber" opponent.
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 1:57pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 1:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person
"The first problem with our Federal govt is that it is comprised of politicians and bureaucrats. Neither is particularly useful or productive."
????? and how has it ever been different? those who seek election to political office, regardless of background, become POLITICIANS. some are right adept at it and serve their entire lives at the will of their constituents and i have no problem with that intrinsically. i, like most others, have some problems with lawyers, but were i to need legal representation i'd go to one in a heartbeat.
bureaucrats? who else mans a bureaucracy? bureaucracies exist in private as well as public form and all of them need be manned and operated by professional bureaucrats. nobody likes wading through bureaucratic red tape, but that's just the way the donkey farts. NOBODY loves a bureaucracy, but no large organization can function without one...
"I won't recommend joining the Repubs-not until they show they are serious about leading a constitutional govt."
don't worry. the dems are ascendant where i am and i'll need all the cronies i can get to survive and thrive in business, so...
i can one day really flip the table and watch all the pieces go flying...lol...
i mean, all this bureaucracy and politician bashing, as good as it makes one feel, is ultimately a non sequitur expression of futile frustration akin to asking why one must ultimately die. pointless.
i got out of politics long ago when i realized how readily folks elect idiots in order to have someone else to blame for their ignorance and shortcomings.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 1:58pm
if it ain't big gubbamint tax-and-spend entitlement something fer nuthin santa claus, its no gubbamint, no taxes, everything gonna magically fix itself something fer nuthin'ism...
well, its more subtle than that, but i have very little tolerance for the "throw out all the bums" when we insist on either electing them or not participating and allowing them to be elected over and over so as to enable interminable everything sux style wining and carping - regardless of the direction of the carping, politically.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 2:01pm
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 1:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person
oh mine beloved enemies! how would i pass the time waiting for slack attorneys and accountants to respond to queries for quotes without mine beloved enemies?
i am eternally grateful to them.
and nobody gets punched in the face or goes to jail. literally...
what could be better???
real health care. that would be nice, but gotta fight for it.
most of the trolls are indeed decent enough folk on a personal basis. not all, certainly, but most.
but if the line themselves up on the side of the enemy - they are enemies and must be opposed.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 2:09pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 2:09pm
Just noting Larry is beyond your typical right-winger who opposes "Gub''mint run health care"....he doesn't believe in ANY health care.
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 3:34pm
It's fun to hear the chit-chat going back and forth involving Larry but the fact is that because of the conversations increasing through "clubs", Internet groups, publications like The Nation, etc., public awareness of the inability of Congress to connect to the people and anticipate the discontent that is fueling the sense of outrage necessary to override the apathy of a government too willing to sabotage the majority of the country for the protection of the gangsters that have amassed the wealth of the country by subterfuge and the influence purchased by their generosity towards those who serve them well.
Posted by Gustav at 11/19/2009 @ 5:03pm
Just noting Larry is beyond your typical right-winger who opposes "Gub''mint run health care"....he doesn't believe in ANY health care.
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 3:34pm
Every once in a while I have to put Mask back on just to check on what new lies (or repeats of old ones) he's putting out.
It is a lie that I don't believe in healthcare. I believe in natural, or holistic, or homeopathic, Alternative medicine, whatever is most familiar to folks about natural health. And most in natural health are liberals.
there is even a Coalition for Natural Health -mainly doctors and other health practitioners who are trying to get people off of the destructive health systems most people use today.
http://www.naturalhealth.org/index.asp
On March 7, 2000 President Clinton established the White House Commission on Complementary and Alternative Medicine Policy (WHCCAMP) with Executive Order 13147.
The Commission comprises members appointed by the president, as well as, an executive director appointed by the secretary. The executive level search for commissioners directed an aim at knowledgeable parties that hail from both conventional health care operations and CAM practices. James S. Gordon, M.D., of Washington DC, who is presently the director of the Center for Body-Mind Medicine, was appointed by the president to serve as chair.
And this resource (I'm a subscriber)
Mother Earth News
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Natural-Health.aspx
Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 5:19pm
"Can the Postal Service be Saved? With Losses Mounting, Postal Service Seeks Autonomy, Pushes to Cut Saturday Service; Rep. Danny Davis Calls for a Bailout"...
I have the solution....of the 8 windows in the PO that are permanently close with the sign that say next window, despite the lines.....why not move the new Govt Health Care clincs into the PO windows...
advantages galore...
1. Postal Woirkers are already unionsed, the medical workers could be in the same union.
2. Spiffy uniforms already designed.
3. Pleanty of colored stamps the Post Offices use on the paperwork could serve the medical records too.
4. When Postal workers go Postal, the Drs and medical people are right there, so money saved on ambulance trips.
5. Waiting rooms and long lines areas already roped off.
7. When DRs and nurse go on manditory union breaks, Postal workers could take over and visa versa.
8. One can get stamps at same time as dr visits.saving gas for ALGORE to use in his motorcades and G5's.
9. Comrade Chao could double as an amubulance driver with his diesel semi in the off hours when he isnt hauling junk mail also saving gas for ALGORE.(AH, AND SAVING THE PLANET,TOO)
10. Like the PO..costs and salaries won't matter since govt is there to manage both..
I could go on endlessly.
Posted by YourJomamma at 11/19/2009 @ 6:21pm
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2009 @ 3:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person
and he's not a hard core christian scientist...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/19/2009 @ 7:05pm
"Every once in a while I have to put Mask back on just to check on what new lies (or repeats of old ones) he's putting out.
It is a lie that I don't believe in healthcare. I believe in natural, or holistic, or homeopathic, Alternative medicine, whatever is most familiar to folks about natural health. And most in natural health are liberals. "----Posted by antisocialist at 11/19/2009 @ 5:19pm
Few points-
1. I noted on another thread that you are a "holistic medicine" believer. However, most people would use that as a supplement, not replacement for traditional medicine.
2. Beyond belief in that form of medicine, you also use it as an EXCUSE for your hyper-libertarian ideas about "Government-provided health care". "Don't need it...just eat these herbs for your cancer!"
3. YOU are the liar, Larry. Since you did NOT "put me back on" from having me on your Ignore List...you just ignore my posts and pretend you're not seeing them.
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2009 @ 07:42am
"The clubs are not an effort to turn away from government, in fact they are in part an effort to develop the skills and solidarity needed to advocate for a government that work for the common good." -KVH
"I applaud much of what they are attempting.
But I started laughing as I read the article because I could not imagine the Nation promoting what is usually a conservative idea. " -Posted by antisocialist at 11/18/2009 @ 3:22pm | ignore this person | warn this person
In what universe is "solidarity" a conservative idea??
Posted by Mariner84 at 11/20/2009 @ 09:52am
you just ignore my posts and pretend you're not seeing them.
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2009 @ 07:42am | ignore this person | warn this person
like JR? i think he actually does ignore those who offend him, which means his iggy bin must be impressive indeed. i only have one in that place, and haven't seen hide nor hair of THAT one in a while.
but i think you pegged larry in terms of his opinions on the subject.
a lot of the homeopathic stuff is basic common sense, but its not a substitute for most for real health care. i'm guessing larry is a fairly healthy guy and over imputes his good fortune.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/20/2009 @ 10:05am
For something more challenging than "simple Economics" but highly edumycational, in fact, this article is worth 3 credit hours by its lonesome self, from the WSJ:
Why No One Expects a Strong Recovery
When you repeal sound economic policies you repeal their results.
By JEB HENSARLING AND PAUL RYAN
One of the strongest factors promoting recovery from our 10 post-World War II recessions was an unshakable conviction that, regardless of the immediate trouble, the American economy is fundamentally strong. Based on this underlying confidence, recessions and recoveries roughly conformed to the principle of the bigger the bust, the bigger the boom, and vice versa.
Thus real growth in the four quarters following postwar recessions averaged 6.6% and 4.3% over the following five years. As the chief economist for Barclays, Dean Maki, said in this newspaper on Aug. 19, "You can't find a single deep recession that has been followed by a moderate recovery."
That may no longer hold. Since the current recession has lasted a record seven quarters--and has been marked by a near-record average GDP decline of 1.8% per quarter--we should be witnessing the start of a powerful and sustained recovery. Yet forecasts of a 2% recovery in growth are only one-fourth as strong as postwar experience suggests. Meanwhile, unemployment sits at a generational high of 10.2%.
Why all the pessimism? The source appears to be.....
Posted by Happy at 11/20/2009 @ 10:39am
Hi Katrina vanden Heuvel, >I support the work the clubs are doing. My Grandparents had to be self sufficient during the depression and had a garden and raised chickens. Some they ate and some they sold to neighbors. Economics is neither real or simple. Economics is the measurement of what has happened in the short term or long term past. In class as we learned Economics and Finance each Nobel Prize winner in Economics had radically different views of the other Prize winners. Why? Each one just reported what they had seen. None of them looked beyond their own narrow focus. So what we are taught in school is theory not fact. Is that wrong? No! School is where we learn to use the tools available so in the future we can apply those tools to solve some problem. Our failure is pointing to one or a few Economists and declaring He or She is right all the time. What worked at the beginning of the first depression may or may not work now.> What has happened that was revealed in September of 2008 was not an accident or any action by the general public. This was "The Greatest Crime in the History of the World" Copyright Luther Browning 2009. I'll be brief. In 1987-88 bills were passed allowing derivatives and subprime mortgage loans. Sub prime means worthless. Little happened until the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, was passed. The mortgage loan companies needed this so they could hedge, insure, their bad subprime mortgages. Any one could buy this insurance but why? The only way to make money was if the mortgages were foreclosed. Alen Greenspan told the nation to buy their next home with an ARM on February 23,2004. The prime was 1%. He raised the prime to 5.25% in 2 1/2 years. A home you could afford in 2004 left you bankrupt in 2008.> Bill
Posted by BillWilliam at 11/20/2009 @ 1:17pm
a lot of the homeopathic stuff is basic common sense,
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/20/2009 @ 10:05am
Isn't a homeopathic remedy just a multiple dilution of some compound? For instance, you take a chemical, dissolve it in a litre of water, then add nine litres, mix, then dump nine litres of the mixture so you're left with one tenth the concentration. Repeat several times until, say, the concentration is a billion-billionth of the initial concentration.
Some of the remedies are so dilute it's unlikely that even one molecule of the original chemical remains - which is fortunate because some of the chemicals used, such as strychnine, are toxic.
Posted by Mistral at 11/20/2009 @ 1:22pm
The "clubs", or you may call them "gathering of citizens", that nemesis of despotism. are a healthy response to the failure (or inability) of governments to protect and represent the interests of the majority of the citizens from the abuses of a ruling class. They are the catalyst to repression... in oligarchies. Are they a sign of a brewing process of citizens' involvement in the process of assuming responsibility for self governing? Rather than the paradigm of letting Big Daddy take care of everything? Big Daddy has grown to become a corporate take over of what used to be the pride of Democracy (unless you read the fine print). Democracy requires constant re-appraisals. It is not a static form of rule. It grows with the consciousness of those who choose to be free. I personally celebrate the open discussion. It is not nagging when the outrage has grown to the boiling point and those who don't listen are faced with a discontent that threatens their comfort zone. That's the point when changes are most latent . I believe we have arrived at the boiling point although the kettle hasn't started whistling yet... I can hear it.
Posted by Gustav at 11/20/2009 @ 1:40pm
Posted by Happy at 11/18/2009 @ 9:14pm |
If they can remember that, then they can remember Volcker shock (Reagan's watch...ya have to love how they always say, "Highest unemployment in 25 years" and not, "Highest unemployment SINCE REAGAN"), deficit defense spending out Ron's ass, and the S&L faceplants too.
Play pin the tail on the Obama if you must, but we can remember who brought this mammon-worship to DC in '81. This *IS* the end-game of Reagan's laissez-faire economic dismantling of post-WWII America.
Posted by snowball777 at 11/23/2009 @ 07:49am
Posted by Happy at 11/20/2009 @ 10:39am |
Why overlook the obvious feature that this depression is global and the "10 post-WWII recessions" were US-only?
Posted by snowball777 at 11/23/2009 @ 08:08am