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RedditOn October 27 I was part of the "Intelligence Squared" debate series, squaring off with NPR's John Hockenberry, Politico's Jim VandeHei, and Vanity Fair columnist Michael Wolff about the future of media. My side of the debate - with fine debating partners, David Carr of the New York Times and Phil Bronstein of the San Francisco Chronicle, was arguing against the "resolution" (this was a classic, Oxford-style debate) of "Good Riddance to the Mainstream Media." I'm happy to report that we won the faceoff -- 50 percent of the audience came into the evening opposing the resolution; after the debate was over that number had swelled to 68 percent!
As The Nations editor and publisher it was an unusual position for me to take given how regularly the magazine criticizes the MSM'S missteps. But the values and virtues of a vigilant, powerful press are more critical now than ever and the answer to media bias and infotainment is not to throw "the baby out with the bath-water", as I said, probably one time too many, during the debate!
The debate was lively, and at times contentious, with Carr quickly emerging as the star of the evening. He is an extraordinary and idiosyncratic character -- a cross between a figure out of David Lynch's Blue Velvet and Clark Kent with a deep, gravelly voice colored by life's vicissitudes. He employed a highly effective, if eccentric style of rhetoric complete with a powerful visual flourish at the end when he brandished a printout of Wolff's site Newser, a news aggregation site, with all references to the MSM cut off. The page, as Carr noted, strongly resembled swiss cheese.
Wolff himself did his team no favors with a generally rude and insulting posture that seemed to alienate much of the audience. It also distracted people from some strong arguments put forth by his partner Hockenberry, who was valiant in his passionate defense of the first amendment.
Phil Bronstein was equally passionate about the critical need for the MSM to continue functioning. He eloquently explained why big institutions were critical to take on unaccountable mega-corporations and unchecked government abuses. In the Q&A session, a woman, who just happened to be the chief counsel for the Hearst Media Group, brought home that point when she listed the number of recent lawsuits brought by newspapers to challenge wrongful convictions and asked VandeHei how many such suits his online newspaper Politico and other internet news operations have filed. She's still waiting for an answer.
Each debater began with an opening statement. Read mine below and below that are video highlights from the evening; the entire event will be broadcast, re-broadcast and streamed on NPR affiliates around the country and at NPR.org. Thanks to Intelligence Squared for inviting me to participate in such a spirited and intelligent debate series.
Introductory Remarks
October 27, 2009
I never imagined that as editor and publisher of The Nation I'd be standing **Against** the resolution: "good riddance to the mainstream media." for 144 years, the nation has challenged the limits, exposed the flaws of the msm; in fact, we've chronicled the msm's corporate consolidation which --through the gutting of newsrooms in quest for ever higher profit margins--contributed to the journalistic crisis we confront today .
But these are times when as an old media guy antonio Gramsci would say, the old media order may be dying, but a new one is not yet born. That's why I believe to state without nuance **good riddance to the msm** may get the testosterone flowing but it distracts from the tough work of salvaging AND reviving quality journalism and newsrooms that will hold accountable the powerful. And what is michael wolff going on about: his newswer site is essentially an aggregator and annotator of msm stories!
So I am ready to separate my frustration with the many weaknesses of the msm from a recognition of the valuable role it plays in our democracy. The best of the msm--look at last 15 years of pulitzers--has exposed, shamed, reformed, rectified.
Don't get me wrong. Few people were more frustrated than i was with the msm's coverage of --well, to take a few examples: the 2000 election debacle, the run up to last year's financial meltdown and most centrally, the Iraq war. With important exceptions the msm acted more as stenographers to power than the independent-minded, hard-headed reporters and investigators that reporters and editors like to imagine themselves. While it may have been impossible to determine, for certain, whether saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction, it sure was obvious that the administration could not make its case; whether with regard to the weapons, nukes, terrorism, iraq and al –qaeda, and really anything. And even if you made the mistake of taking them at their word regarding the threat level--something, again, with a few important exceptions (Knight-Ridder, now McClatchey, Walter Pincus, Seymour Hersh).
Even worse, the reporting of the war was not exactly an isolated incident. Up until hurricane Katrina, it was almost impossible for reporters and editors to tell the truths that many of them spoke of privately about the degree of incompetence, ideological obsession, corruption, and politicization inside the bush administration. How telling is it, for instance, that the attorneys general scandal had to be uncovered by what was then a fly-by-night website tpm run by liberal journalist, josh marshall.
But the fact is, we can't let our emotions, whether on the right or the left, get in the way of our better judgment. And from the standpoint of the health of our democracy, for all the frustration it causes us, the msm is something we can't live without--at least until we have some idea of what's going to replace it. And right now, nobody does.
The fact is nobody but institutions like the ny times, the wash post, the wall street journal--excluding its nutty editorial pages--and a small group of regional papers do most of the reporting in this country that the rest of us depend on to try to hold power accountable. And while mistakes (often arrogant, infuriating ones) are endemic, it's the hard-working reporter whether in congress, the federal bureaucracy, statehouses, city hall or on war fronts or in a beleaguered third world nation that does the expensive drudge work that allows our system to operate with even a modicum of accountability. But such reporting, especially the investigative kind, is expensive and it does not pay for itself with advertisers or even, sad to say, readers.
Here's another reason not say good riddance to the msm. For all their flaws, in a flawed world, newspapers at their best try to provide a check on corruption and crooked politicians. Without this check, as David Simon, former crime reporter for the baltimore sun and creator of the wire, mused : "oh, to be a state or local official in america over the next 10 to 15 years, before somebody figures out the business model...to gambol freely across the wastelands of an american city, as a local politician! It's got to be one of the great dreams in the history of american corruption."
What's more, we need to consider what will become of those people, both at home and abroad, who depend on such journalistic enterprises to keep them safe from various forms of torture, oppression, and injustice. "people do awful things to each other," the veteran war photographer george guthrie says in "night and day," Tom Stoppard's 1978 play about foreign correspondents. "but it's worse in places where everybody is kept in the dark."
And the problem goes further than just what gets reported and what doesn't and can be seen not only at the level of the great national newspapers but also at the local level. A recent study of the consequences of the shutdown of the cincinnati post in 2007 found a decline in the number of people voting in local elections as well as the number of candidates willing to challenge incumbents. Loss of local newspapers seems to correlate with a measurable decline in the quality of local democracy.
If the current journalistic model is unsustainable, and i think it is. Then it's up to those in our society who care about the continued ability to function as a democracy--to keep the powerful even remotely accountable to the rest of us--to find ways to fund reporting and ensure the dissemination of reliable information. Crisis is a moment of opportunity --not a moment to toss out what has value, despite flaws. Yes, we have examples of new models ---but it sure as hell is a still fragile-- emerging journalistic ecosystem out there.
To imagine that philanthropy or other hybrids--for profit, low profit, can fill all the gaps arising from journalistic cutbacks is wishful thinking. Especially if we believe quality journalism and indpt reporting is a public good.
So the fundamental problem remains. Without powerful media institutions to take on the powerful on behalf of the rest of us, we become more vulnerable as a society to those who would use their influence for private gain, damn the public consequences. We need a plan B. And we don't have one yet. Which come to think of it, reminds me of how the bush administration went into iraq. And we all know how that turned out.
Vote against the resolution: "good riddance to the mainstream media."
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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bravo, katrina!
Posted by darladoon at 11/09/2009 @ 7:32pm
Just like advertisers must give warnings to inform consumers, the MSM should be forced to disclose how much money they get from advertisers who favor stories they report on.
Bias in the MSM is pervasive, and consumers have a right to know which financial interests are driving the bias.
Posted by Metteyya at 11/09/2009 @ 9:36pm
The other problem with the MSM is that far too many of their stories are designed to invoke fear, as this base emotion tends to keep the viewers attention so that they can charge advertisers more money.
It really is a poor news model if you are interested in getting the truth or interested in being inspired to make the world a better place.
Posted by Metteyya at 11/09/2009 @ 9:48pm
You are nothing if not awesome! And you ain't nothing.
My beef is this:
"(Phil Bronstein) eloquently explained why big institutions were critical to take on unaccountable mega-corporations and unchecked government abuses."
The top ten media corporations are unaccountable mega-corporations, are in effect the military-corp-media-complex.
Ex, the build-up to war. Pick any "household" in America in early 2002, pick any top ten radio or TV channel that household was listening to pro-war Saddam-bad-dangerous propaganda.
Posted by winyahn at 11/09/2009 @ 10:09pm
KvH: "For all their flaws, in a flawed world, newspapers at their best try to provide a check on corruption and crooked politicians."
I think in this past two decades, newspapers have done the exact opposite....they have encouraged corruption and further enabled crooked politicians. They did this by being biased and turning a blind eye, or winks, at the corruptions on their side.
Look at centers of major corruption and tell me if they don't coincide with the biggest names in Legacy Media.....
New York with the NYT and all the broadcast medias is about as crooked as they come! How else to explain Charlie Rangel? Did he just all of sudden got 4 rent-controlled apts. recently and at the same time? Wasn't it the NYT that thought it had a monster story with some female lobbyist friendly w/John McCain?
Washington DC with the WaPo. How many big-name Democrats has it brought down? And we know there is no greater concentration of crooks than in DC.
And don't get started on ACORN.....all those that recently `starred', are in Big Cities with Big Name Legacy Medias!
Today, Legacy Media just flat out has no credibility and folks know they go all out to cover for their Liberal buddies in Gov't, unions and non-profits.
Legacy Media deserves to die...they HAVE lost their founding purpose and are doing more harm than good. The only people who still believe in what they peddle, won't miss a thing important!
Posted by Happy at 11/09/2009 @ 10:35pm
Agree Happy, the liberal national media has spent is credibiity covering the 20 percenters and 1 percenters while totally ignoring the 80 percent or more of the population that dispises their positions. They failed to check the credibility and viability of the leftist Messiah and duped many a moderate and conservative. They deserve to vanish like dust in the wind!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/10/2009 @ 01:01am
They failed to check the credibility and viability of the leftist Messiah....
Posted by BigPasture at 11/10/2009 @ 01:01am
Oh, but they will fact check a comedy skit on SNL just because it poked fun at Obama.
Posted by fram at 11/10/2009 @ 05:47am
News is something one takes the time, an hour or two a day or a few more on the weekends, to read, study and ponder the facts with friends over coffee, after a meal.
Repeating talking points a thousand times a day, 24/7, isn't news-- it's hypnosis.
Education, creating good judgement skills and developing ones creative reasoning, all should be nurtured by MSM. Unfortunately, the primary cause for the current MSM is the opposite and prioritizes corporate profits above all else. What was common place is a distant line in the sand; now merely crossing that line to do the right thing, a cause for celebration.
When providing amble rope to our lesser natures, perversion profits; humanity be hanged.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/10/2009 @ 08:19am
er, ample
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/10/2009 @ 08:38am
Posted by BigPasture at 11/10/2009 @ 01:01am
Rio, how is it "80 percent" didn't vote against Obama and stop his "totalitarian socialist fascism"?!??!!??!?
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 09:21am
well i think part of the equation in saving the msm is the existence of THIS...
during the previous administration's first 6 years the internet was the haven of those who sickened at the piss poor job the msm did, and eventually the msm's arrogance turned to fear.
good. both the decent and the wicked fear the internet, and rightfully so. without this anarchic salon who knows where we'd be now...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/10/2009 @ 10:07am
NBC ABC CBS Viacom -- all of them echo-spewed the Cheney McCarthyism hero-villain God Bless the USA MYTH ad infinitum ad nauseam. Why?: $
~~CORPORATOCRACY~~
It's about board rooms and billionaires not ideas.
Posted by winyahn at 11/10/2009 @ 10:18am
Agree Happy, the liberal national media has spent is credibiity covering the 20 percenters and 1 percenters while totally ignoring the 80 percent or more of the population that dispises their positions. They failed to check the credibility and viability of the leftist Messiah and duped many a moderate and conservative. They deserve to vanish like dust in the wind!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/10/2009 @ 01:01am | ignore this person | warn this person
Ah....'The Silent Majority'.....where have we heard that before?
Posted by OneVote at 11/10/2009 @ 10:20am
The real question is, do we want a strong, vigilant, independent media or one that's so biased and racist that it constantly promotes Middle Eastern wars of aggression and capitalist imperialism around the world, regardless of consequences? If we had anything resembling an unbiased media, I would agree with you, KVH. As it is, silence is preferable to lies.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/10/2009 @ 10:28am
~~CORPORATOCRACY~~
It's about board rooms and billionaires not ideas.
Posted by winyahn at 11/10/2009 @ 10:18am | ignore this person | warn this person
Fostering the myth of democracy - while they rob us blind.
The 9/11 coup and coup de grace train has already left the station.
No questions asked supplemental "war" spending for years now. No-transparency bailouts for international bankers.
US Treasury is selling an additional $80 billion of debt as we speak.
Yeah right....MSM is really holding their feet to the fire.
Posted by OneVote at 11/10/2009 @ 10:29am
You got a way with words, OV. As we 'speak', the Fed is running the presses at Warp Five, putting their assets overseas, inflating their reserves and trashing the dollar to service our (war-borne) debt, among other things. When we're all starving, we'll be at war with Iran..... no other choice.
You're absolutely right....... When was the last time we heard an honest accounting of the Fed (or much of anything else, for that matter) on the MSM?
Posted by DejaVu at 11/10/2009 @ 10:44am
Sometimes I feel that the only reason Happy and Rio bother to spend their time here is not to speak truths but to attempt to annoy.
If they paid attention they would realize that the MSM for the most part is equally biased. They only scream foul if a story about acorn goes unpublished or if their side looks bad. Sure, toward the end of the Bush/Cheney Admin the media was rougher then at the beginning. In the beginning, nothing bad was said, no questioning of the Iraq war, no real investigation of Valerie Plame or Julie Macdonald. It was not until after Katrina that the MSM got some balls and started gently asking tough questions. Although it is tough to ask question to an adminstration that does not do interviews.
Remember the Clinton Admin? From the beginning the MSM was attacking him on all fronts, from the whitewater, travelgate, troopergate, and Monica Lewinsky Impeachment attempt. From the beginning the Repubs and the MSM were out to get him. Liberal Bias? Yeah right.
But Happ and Rio will continue to ignore reality and keep spewing the bile that the MSM is controlled by the liberals, rather than see the truth that it is controlled by the corporations, and reacts soley to the power of the dollar, so if being liberal sells then they will be liberal. But as soon as the profit motive changes so that they make money from being more conservative that is the way it will go. Of all Happ and Rio's pro capitalism stances they actually fail to see capitalism in action.
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 11:17am
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 11:17am | ignore this person | warn this person
Pretty dumb argument considering the billions to be made attacking this current Pres. and congress that could save them from ruin!
Posted by BigPasture at 11/10/2009 @ 11:28am
There is No objective reporting in this country. Everyone in the "news" has a bias. NBC is an Obama ball licking entity and Fox is an Obama ball kicking entity. Our MSM is F*%@ed!!!!
Posted by abell12ct at 11/10/2009 @ 11:43am
You're absolutely right....... When was the last time we heard an honest accounting of the Fed (or much of anything else, for that matter) on the MSM?
Posted by DejaVu at 11/10/2009 @ 10:44am | ignore this person | warn this person
Chinese are getting nervous - just like non-investor class in America - read working class.
Fed is devaluing their (our) debt, but in the meantime, they are also devaluing American checking, savings, money market and fixed income accounts. Our government is trying to force us into the "market" by making cash trash. Once we start getting more defections from this "world economic recovery" sham, this new house of cards will topple. Foreign nations are already building their gold reserves and hard assets in advance of abandoning the dollar. Chinese are buying up tangible assets with their dollars just as fast as they can - as are other nations holding American "war" debt.
MSM just keeps nursing us along - on the road the sheeple slaughterhouse. I can hardly stand watching 5 minutes of it anymore. The crass propaganda and commercialism is sick, and no civilized society can long survive its ravages of morality and spirit.
Posted by OneVote at 11/10/2009 @ 11:44am
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 11:17am
Never enough for them, Extra.
Until or unless Katie Couric goes on the air saying "Our Marxist fascist President who wants to kill us with his totalitarian health care plan went to Fort Hood today...to memorialize the people killed because of HIS apology tour across pinko Europe"....
the MSM is "run by liberals".
heheh
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 12:31pm
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 12:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
marxist-fascist...good one, lol...
i wonder how many tea baggers could define either of those terms much beyond "bad" or "unamerican"...
way back in 92, as prez of the young dems at my college, half of them couldn't even tell me what a liberal was. they often referred to me as a liberal, by the way...of course...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/10/2009 @ 12:53pm
When was the last time we heard an honest accounting of the Fed (or much of anything else, for that matter) on the MSM? Posted by DejaVu at 11/10/2009 @ 10:44am
I heard a pretty decent accounting of the weather this morning...
Too bad there are so few to no radar sites for the other stuff.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/10/2009 @ 1:03pm
As the elderly depart, so will the MSM. Whenever I get into a political debate with anyone over the age of 6o and up and I ask them where they get their information, it's always from ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN., as well as their local newspaper.
The point is that older people in our population have been weaned from what many consider a leftist media while the younger generations are more computer savvy and surf for the latest and for in depth coverage of stories current and past.
I find myself somewhere in the middle. I will always listen to both sides and then decide which makes the most sense. If one takes the time to get both sides of an argument instead of just spouting talking points from either side, one can see the obvious bias and slant of a particular news organization pretty clearly.
Recently, I've grown to appreciate the coverage from Fox because they, while being right of center, have covered stories that the MSM wouldn't touch. Two recent examples are the radical histories of several of Barack Obama's picks for Czars. Also the ACORN story never would have seen the light of day if not for Fox. Also, does anyone know why Obama got the endorsements from AARP and the AMA for his health plan? You didn't here why from the MSM. You'll be startled. Look it up.
So what do those on the left do, they willingly shoot the messenger instead of getting upset that their favorite leftwing media outlet didn't inform them but purposely kept them in the dark. This is why Fox is killing all the competition in the ratings. People are finding out, those under 60 anyway, that reporting should not be selective based on political considerations.
The MSM is dying a painfully slow death but the process is beginning to accelerate as the population advances.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/10/2009 @ 1:28pm
Never enough for them, Extra.
Until or unless Katie Couric goes on the air saying "Our Marxist fascist President who wants to kill us with his totalitarian health care plan went to Fort Hood today...to memorialize the people killed because of HIS apology tour across pinko Europe"....
the MSM is "run by liberals".
heheh
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 12:31pm
Not even that would do it. They won't give up their hammer. If they ever give up the liberal media mantra they would not be able to use it as a political and ideological excuse for their bad press. It is too valuable a tool to let even the most blatent of contradictions take it from them.
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 1:29pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/10/2009 @ 12:53pm
Beck'ism....the Crying Man has led the charge that not only are Obama and the Dems "Marxists"...they're "fascists" as well.
Almost ready to make the case that the President is BOTH a "Black Panther" AND a member of the Klan!
heheh
((BTW, standby for the usual "Hitler was a socialist" stuff from our friends on the Always Holy-Never Extreme Right!))
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 1:55pm
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 1:29pm
One noticeable contradiction of late....they've stopped claiming Fox News is "unbiased". Atleast I've stopped seeing that.
Most of them now are openly admitting Fox is tilted-to-the-Right...but claim it's "only fair, since ALL the rest of the Media is so blatantly liberal."
But of course that then undercuts their (and Fox's ) argument that it is "unfair and an attempt at censorship for Obama to diss Fox!"
Posted by Mask at 11/10/2009 @ 1:57pm
"The biggest political joke in America is that we have a liberal press. It's a joke taken seriously by a surprisingly large number of people... The myth of the liberal press has served as a political weapon for conservative and right-wing forces eager to discourage critical coverage of government and corporate power ... Americans now have the worst of both worlds: a press that, at best, parrots the pronouncements of the powerful and, at worst, encourages people to be stupid with pseudo-news that illuminates nothing but the bottom line." Mark Hertzgaard
"We're not in the business of providing news and information, We're simply in the business of selling our customers' products."
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." Former CIA Director William Colby
"The corporate media and pundit class increasingly function as press agents for whoever is in power." Adolph L. Reed. Jr Clear Channel CEO Lowry Mays
"The media want to maintain their intimate relation to state power. They want to get leaks, they want to get invited to the press conferences. They want to rub shoulders with the Secretary of State, all that kind of business. To do that, you've got to play the game, and playing the game means telling their lies, serving as their disinformation apparatus." Noam Chomsky
"To keep information from the public is the function of the corporate media." Gore Vidal
"The man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." Thomas Jefferson
Posted by FrTothus at 11/10/2009 @ 2:20pm
Posted by FrTothus at 11/10/2009 @ 2:20pm
Nice!
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 2:32pm
The MSM's like when you first start a job, naively, everything is a priority because you do not know what the priorities really are yet. So then what if your job becomes like 24/7, because you're a hog for building that profit accruing account; like that's all you do all the time. No outside life to really care about or making the rest of it really a worthwhile value. And in order to fill every moment with money making, the seemingly most meaningless task filler becomes just as important as the major emergency required work, because it all pays. And because it pays to do the meaningless as well as the important stuff, it draws its false equivalency of the two. Like being paid to take a stinky dump break, and so then there's Clem Peck. Or even taking the time to blow your nose that's full of green rotten snot and so then there's Rump Limppaw. No big deal if you only hadn't drawn it out so so so long or hadn't done it over and over again to make the most out of a meaningless activity, except for maybe the desensitizing or making it so familiar one then misses it if the green and brown stink isn't stuck to everything everywhere one looks.
So here we are covered in the now bearable muck and wondering what went so wrong with what's been so far right...
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/10/2009 @ 3:07pm
Gunslinger, I know its you even before I see your name at the end of your rant, could it be fox and acorn and czar in the same paragraph, hmmmmm?
Posted by Denise29 at 11/10/2009 @ 5:47pm
"The corporate media and pundit class increasingly function as press agents for whoever is in power." Adolph L. Reed. Jr Clear Channel CEO Lowry Mays
Who's in power doesn't change - the meganormus unAmerican multinational lying, distorting, poluting, distracting false equivalency media-military-complex machines - are in power.
Posted by winyahn at 11/10/2009 @ 7:09pm
One of the many problems with the dominant press in this country can be summed up as follows: I can watch FAUX "News" and hear a bunch of inane RNC propaganda, or I can watch MSNBC...and hear a bunch of inane DNC propaganda. Most of the corporate media falls into one of those two categories (although the latter category is a bit larger). If the pipeline of regurgitated government press releases, celebrity gossip, and outright lies & propaganda were to be severed, I'm not sure that would genuinely constitute a net minus for American society.
Posted by KevinRiley at 11/10/2009 @ 7:56pm
Ummmmm........"you people" (liberals) are sick! I'm both embarrassed and extremely worried for my child's future, knowing that there are many empty, deranged, and outright sick people like yourselves that not only vote, but sit in high positions of power (government). Due to the mental illness known as liberalism, as i predicted on this site years ago, things are going to get sooooooooooo much worse before they get better, and, sadly, the "msm/academia/hollywood complex" has mindfucked the spoiled american people to a point that I'm starting to lose hope that things will ever get better. Let the people (liberals) who enable, empower and defend terrorism, become the victims of it! Disgusting human beings
Posted by barry25 at 11/10/2009 @ 8:15pm
Posted by barry25 at 11/10/2009 @ 8:15pm
And Happy Holidays to you too!
Posted by schnellerheinz at 11/10/2009 @ 9:21pm
......see the truth that it is controlled by the corporations, and reacts soley to the power of the dollar, so if being liberal sells then they will be liberal. .....Happ and Rio's pro capitalism stances they actually fail to see capitalism in action.
Posted by Extraneous at 11/10/2009 @ 11:17am
Since the NYT and various other Legacy (ie. corp) Medias aren't selling anymore, doesn't it prove we "see capitalism in action" just fine. Those media are more ideological than bottom-line focused....exactly like The Messiah with no concern for The Economy, Stupid!
Fox News & the WSJ, on the other hand, seem to know what corp. medias should be all about, making money while also providing NEWS and OPINIONS!
Posted by Happy at 11/10/2009 @ 9:44pm
Bad news sells more advertising than good news.
Watch the MSM's coverage of Obama once they've gotten him elected for a second term.
It will be ugly.
Posted by bleedingheart at 11/10/2009 @ 10:08pm
Doing God's work, Goldmann Sachs
@
Number 85 Broad Street New York, NY 10004
where the money is
Posted by winyahn at 11/11/2009 @ 12:21am
"I'm both embarrassed and extremely worried for my child's future...."----Posted by barry25 at 11/10/2009 @ 8:15pm
Coincidentially, barry.....WE are ALSO very worried about your child's future....with you as his dad.
LOL
Posted by Mask at 11/11/2009 @ 11:05am
Hey is Faux Spews actually turning a conscientious corner and making tiny attempts at injecting a few factual morsels?
http://tinyurl.com/ylrfg8s
http://tinyurl.com/yekx2a5
Or perhaps... maybe...
http://tinyurl.com/ye34uhf
Faux Spews is attempting to distinguish between its far far right personalities and its 'extremely' far far right personalities?
Flare Un-Balanced.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/11/2009 @ 12:43pm
I'm both embarrassed and extremely worried knowing that there are many empty, deranged, and outright sick people. Due to mental illness things are going to get so much worse before they get better, and, sadly, I'm starting to lose hope that things will ever get better.
Posted by barry25 at 11/10/2009 @ 8:15pm
I thought you were going to jump.
Don't do it, barry25! Hark, the herald angels sing!
Posted by ficheye at 11/11/2009 @ 12:49pm
There are a few things about the MSM that I cannot stand.
First, they are insufferably smug, arrogant, and self-important. A remember not long ago the reporters at The New York Times went on a "by-line strike" in protest of pay cuts or layoffs.
Yeah, they actually thought so much of themselves that they believed the newspaper would suffer if readers couldn't see who had written the stories.
A tv news crew visited my company in Baghdad to do a piece on our "Ironclaw" platoons. These were the guys who drove along the roadside looking for bombs.
Anyway, I'm talking to the female reporter, off the record, not as part of an interview or anything, and I simply ask what network she's with. They weren't wearing any insignia or logos on their clothes.
She responded, quite haughtily and presumptuously, "We're from YOUR network."
She sounded almost defensive. But that's what I'm talking about. Where does that kind of arrogance come from. Well, on that day, I found out it came from CBS.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 11/11/2009 @ 6:01pm
Well, looks like Lou Dobbs read most of our comments and just said Adios to Legacy Media (that's CNN, a key member of our Drive-By Media)!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 6:44pm
I recently noticed that some of the highly intelligent libs on this site like to rearrange my posts to somehow seem clever to their idiotic ilk. Cute, very clever, and absolutely original!
Posted by barry25 at 11/11/2009 @ 7:31pm
From "American Sphinx" by Joseph J. Ellis
Jefferson wanted the press to be free, but he had also presumed that a free press would maintain some measure of respect for the truth. The free-for-all mentality and ricochet style of the multiplying newspapers allowed him to persuade himself that the very principle of freedom of the press was being destroyed by its own excesses. "This is a dangerous state of things" he explained to Thomas McKean of Pennsylvania, "and the press ought to be restored to its credibility if possible". He did not have anything so heavy-handed as the Sedition Act in mind. Instead he suggested that Republican governors in selected states target the most offensive Federalist editors for libel: "And I therefore long thought" he apprised McKean, "that a few prosecutions of the most prominent offenders would have a wholesome effect in restoring the integrity of the presses. Not a general prosecution, for that would look like persecution [ie., the Federalist approach with the sedition act], but a selected one." Governors McKean in Pennsylvania and De Witt Clinton in New York took the suggestion as a command to release their lawyers on the most recalcitrant Federalist editors. As Jefferson saw it, he was not violating a principle so much as rescuing it from its own abusive and self destructive tendencies. But it was clearly at least a half a step backward from his earlier incantations to unbridled freedom of speech.
Also...
..."are mere clouds of unsubstantiated vapour". This became Jefferson's position as well. The frantic behavior of the Federalist press was symptomatic of its utter desperation, he insisted, as its cause slid beneath the surface of American politics forever. The Federalists were simply clutching at the dirt as they went under.
Posted by ttr at 11/11/2009 @ 10:12pm
Three ways to live without the MSM:
Read an alternative weekly. Papers that are supported by titty-bar ads and perverted personals are less beholden to, and more likely to expose, the corporate welfare state. Yes, they're biased, but frankly so - not hiding their bias behind weasel words and bogus 'objectivity'.
Listen to, and support, community radio. The views expressed on community radio are those of real people with something to say, not spokesmodels for the corporate welfare state.
Read books. Authors like Thucydides, Ed Gibbon, and Charles Mackay, to name just a few, have had much to say that is relevant to our present age of mob manipulation and shill-ocracy.
Posted by samcrossett at 11/12/2009 @ 05:22am
Ha:
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 21:13:11 -0700 From: joelieberator@yahoo.com Subject: Killing the P.O. To: rich.as.f*ck@aetna.com
Hey Richard,
How's it going old friend? I'm assuming you're either out on the yacht for the weekend, or trying to drop some of the "high-risk" groups from coverage. LOL :-D
I just got done with my Fox News Sunday appearance. Those guys love me for some reason. They just let me go on and criticize the president whenever I feel like it. Brought to you by the dude who forgave me after John's campaign...I mean I said Obama doesn't put his country first and kept my chairmanship...talk about gullible.
Speaking of gullible, I wanted to touch base with you about our little arrangement. I'm fine with opposing the public option, and threatening to filibuster until they drop it, and you depositing an exorbitant amount of money into my wife's bank account. You still good with that?
I've been going out there like you said and using phrases like "bankrupt the country," and "recession" and "government takeover" and you're right, it does sound scary! It it's totes easy because the Republicans are saying the same things day in and day out, backing me up, making me look tough like when I voted for the Iraq War. No one's ever going to bully me again! I've sure come a long way since High School.
I am getting a bit annoyed that these peasants from my state keep calling my office about this legislation. Don't they get it by now? I only ran on a Universal Health Care platform in '06 so that I could beat stupid Ned Lamont. And they thought I meant it? LMFAO here. Seriously.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/12/2009 @ 11:40am
Hopefully, this will teach the Democrats a lesson about messing with me, and Kelly Olsen for not letting me take her to junior prom, and that stupid jock Gary Phillis for calling me Droopy. See if you'll ever get health coverage now Gary HAHAHAH
Anyways I have to go practice saying "as a matter of conscience" without bursting out laughing.
Thanks again,
Joe
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/12/2009 @ 11:40am
I have a standing offer to my conservative friends that I will show TEN examples of corporate media bias to every ONE they can give me showing liberal bias. At this point, they have basically surrendered by stopping their attempts.
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Posted by hotsalesshop at 11/12/2009 @ 11:09pm
Every time I look at a newspaper I feel like Winston Smith in the novel 1984. Now, the Ministry of Truth is telling us that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is going to be tried in New York for the September 11 terrorism, among other atrocities. Never mind that he was killed in Karachi seven years ago, or that the al Qaeda kamikaze terrorist plot wouldn't fool a blind chimpanzee.
Our propaganda no longer makes any effort to be convincing. The trial is taking place so close to the World Trade Center that the ground must have shaken like an earthquake from the low yield nuclear explosions in the sub basements. Even in Brooklyn, the ground shook with such force, the explosions could be heard before the sound had time to travel through the air.
Before the thought police start banging on our doors at midnight speak up.
Posted by MarkOller at 11/15/2009 @ 01:44am
The FBI intended to capture Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on the first anniversary of the 9/11 terrorism hoax, but he was shot by the ISI instead. So, substitute was located and sent to Guantanamo. Naturally, he was an ugly, hairy, mean looking behemoth, and he looked at least 50. Download
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/DJ30D f01.html
Furthermore, Khalid spoke fluent English, Arabic and Urdu, and he graduated from North Carolina Agricultural and Technical University with a mechanical engineering degree. So, how could he have uttered this gibberish:
Most of these facts which be written are related to this hard drive. And more than eleven of these facts are related to this computer. Other things are which is very old even nobody can bring any witnesses for that you as you written here if it will be ah a value for you for the witness near by you will do it. This computer is not for me. Is for Hawsawi himself. So I'm saying I need Hawsawi because me and him we both been arrested day. Same way. So this computer is from him long time. Also the problem we are not in court and we are not judge and he is not my lawyer but procedure has been written reported and the way has mostly as certain charged against me: tell him, [Arabic Phrase].
See page 11 of the BBC transcript of his hearing and confession, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_0 3_07_mohammed_transcript.pdf
Posted by MarkOller at 11/15/2009 @ 02:06am
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed attended the Baptist, Chowan University for a semester in 1984, before studying engineering at North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University. Does this sound like the behavior of a rabidly anti-American, Muslim fanatic? I quote from the Chowan University website:
Thank you for taking the time to browse this section of our website to learn more about what Chowan offers to Baptist churches and to our friends in churches of other denominations.
At Chowan, we are grateful for our longstanding relationship with the Baptists of North Carolina and Southeast Virginia. Our affiliation with the Baptist of North Carolina and Virginia, which began in 1848, has been a happy one, and we are grateful to God for the mutual benefit that this relationship has brought to both Chowan and the Baptists of North Carolina and Virginia. The prayer support of the Baptist family has seen Chowan through both difficulties and triumphs. The financial support that the University has received through the years from Baptist churches and individuals, as well as through the Cooperative Missions budget of the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, has made it possible for many students, who might not have been otherwise, to attend Chowan University and experience and exceptional quality education in a Christian university setting.
Chowan University, as a church-related institution, was founded upon and is dedicated to Judeo-Christian values.
If you would like additional information or further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me at mcswar@chowan.edu or 252-398-6317.
May God continue to bless you and Chowan University!
Ron McSwain Director, Church Relations http://www.chowan.edu/alumni-giving/church- relations.htm
Posted by MarkOller at 11/15/2009 @ 02:07am
Millions of people find a common betrayal in MSM, The Nation, Democracy Now and otherwise respected sources of Alternative Media: A united and determined betrayal of the Fourth Estate to investigate and report on why no valid investigation of the events of 9/11 has yet taken place.
The 9/11 terror or attack was the seminal event that continues to send exhausted American troops to war after war and is dangerously feeding the cancer of Islamophobia - The Nation seems not to care.
Why has The Nation refused to focus on the massive evidence that leads to the irrefutable conclusion that explosives were involved in the collapse of the Twin Towers and WTC7?
Why has The Nation avoided reporting on how WTC owner, Larry Silverstein admitted he was involved with the controlled demolition of WTC7? His confession exists all over Youtube and in the 2006 PBS documentary called: "AMERICA REBUILDS".
Nobody owns THE NATION but we all know somebody is telling you what not to print. At least tell us why you can't report on 9/11 issues. Are you allowed to do that?
How can you ask for extra financial support when too many of your audience see The Nation as a gatekeeper of false hope by refusing to expose the most heinous unsolved crime of mass murder in American history? How could you?
Posted by Harold Saive at 11/15/2009 @ 6:06pm
I'm getting tired of watching MSNBC to increasingly endure Olberson and Maddow run hate clips from Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, Coulter or Beck.
This is massive dis-information to keep the sheeple from asking the hard quastions.
Posted by Harold Saive at 11/15/2009 @ 6:24pm