Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditIt's been a rough and tough few months. And this August is making a bid to replace the Ides of (is it?) March as the meanest month in our calendar. From a slew of intense late night and early morning calls, I know that many progressives are wondering: Who did we vote for? (And I won't pose the David Axelrod question: Are you Muhammad Ali or Sonny Liston? Though I confess I think it's one worth asking right now.)
Now, no one on the left with any savvy or knowledge of history believed we wouldn't live -- and learn -- through disappointment. Isn't that what politicians are for? And anyone who believed Obama was going to remain an idealistic community organizer, well -- I got a bridge to sell you.
Still, questions remain: Couldn't he have picked a cabinet filled with that real team of rivals? Why not include a Joseph Stiglitz along with a Larry Summers and let the sparks fly? It might have led to a kind of creative de/construction. Where is the organizing out of the White House -- committed to overtaking those who would undermine its message and policies? And couldn't Obama, like FDR, have used this moment of crisis, admittedly not as severe as 1933, but still as severe as many living have experienced, to restructure --not simply resuscitate --the smug financial sector? Couldn't he have used his pulpit and brilliant speaking skills to explain that what we need to fear is joblessness -- not deficits? Or as one of the great historians of the New Deal, David Kennedy, argued, Obama "will be judged not simply on whether he manages a rescue from the current economic crisis but also on whether he grasps the opportunity to make us more resilient to face those future crises that inevitably await us."
The healthcare fight is still up for grabs, yet the emerging stories of White House dealmaking with the drug and insurance industries -- and with the heavily mortgaged Max Baucus and the Senate Finance Committee -- are more than dispiriting. Yet we also confront a political landscape filled with those who fulminate at rallies about government overreach -- the very same folks who should stop, take a deep breath and understand what their lives would be like without government programs like Social Security and Medicare. These are the very programs that Roosevelt, and then Lyndon Johnson, and subsequent Democratic and, yes, Republican Presidents and Congresses, put in place to temper for generations what FDR liked to call the "hazards and vicissitudes" of life.
In this hot month of town halls filled with raging, often inchoate, anger on the Right -- and a season of disappointment among progressives, I wanted to repost what I wrote just a few days after that glorious election night in 2008 -- a night in which the forces of decency and dignity vanquished those forces which hate and demean the possibilities of government and cheer on the forces of reaction at home and abroad. Let's not forget that as we move forward.
Here's what I wrote on November 23, 2008:
I think that we progressives need to be as clear-eyed, tough and pragmatic about Obama as he is about us.President-elect Obama is a centrist at a time when centrism means energy independence and green jobs and universal health care and massive economic stimulus programs and government intervention in the economy. He is a pragmatist at a moment when pragmatism and the scale of our financial crisis compel him to adopt bold policies. He is a cautious leader at a time when, to paraphrase New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, caution is the new risky. The great traumas of our day do not allow for cautious steps or responses.
At 143 years old ( that's the The Nation's age, not mine), we like a little bit of history with our politics. And while Lincoln's way of picking a cabinet frames this transition moment, it's worth remembering another template for governing. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was compelled to become a bolder and, yes, more progressive President (if progressive means ensuring that the actual conditions of peoples' lives improve through government acts) as a result of the strategically placed mobilization and pressure of organized movements.
That history makes me think that this is the moment for progressives to avoid falling into either of two extremes --reflexively defensive or reflexively critical. We'd be wiser and more effective if we followed the advice of one of The Nation's valued editorial board members who shared thoughts with the Board at our meeting last Friday, November 21.
1. It will take large scale, organized movements to win transformative change. There is no civil rights legislation without the movement, no New Deal without the unions and the unemployed councils, no end to slavery without the abolitionists. In our era, this will need to play out at two levels: district-by- district and state-by-state organizing to get us to the 218 and sixty votes necessary to pass any major legislation; and the movement energy that can create public will, a new narrative and move the elites in DC to shift from orthodoxy. The energy in the country needs to be converted into real organization.
2. We need to be able to play inside and outside politics at the same time. I think this will be challenging for those of us schooled in the habits of pure opposition and protest. We need to make an effort to engage the new Administration and Congress constructively, even as we push without apology for solutions at a scale necessary to deliver. This is in the interest of the Democratic Party--which rode the wave of a new coalition of African Americans, Latinos, young people, women, etc--but they have been beaten down by conservative attacks and the natural impulse will be caution and hiding behind desks.
3. Progressives need to stick up especially forcefully for the most vulnerable parts of the coalition--poor people, immigrants, etc-- those who got almost no mention during the election and will be most likely to be left off the bus.
Share this article
Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
RSS
OBAMAGARCHS UNITE!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/13/2009 @ 10:57pm
American citizens ARE getting "real" about the Obamanation that makes desolation! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice (or about 10 times)?
President Barack Obama's approval rating continues to plunge -- only 47 percent of voters say they at least somewhat approve of his job performance, the lowest figure yet recorded, a poll by Rasmussen Reports reveals.
Obama's approval rating has declined steadily since it stood at 65 percent when he took office.
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday discloses that just 29 percent of likely voters now strongly approve of Obama's performance, while 37 percent strongly disapprove.
That gives the president a Presidential Approval Index of minus-8. That Index is computed by subtracting the "strongly disapprove" figure from the "strongly approve" percentage.
Most troubling for the Democrats, perhaps, is that 65 percent of independent voters now disapprove of Obama's performance.
Among the findings of the latest Rasmussen poll:
Support for the healthcare reform plan proposed by Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low -- just 42 percent favor the plan, while 53 percent oppose it.
In the Virginia governor's race, Republican Bob McDonnell has a 9-point lead over Democrat R. Creigh Deeds -- 47 percent of respondents said they would vote for McDonnell if the election were held today, 38 percent chose Deeds, and the rest would choose another candidate or are undecided.
In the New Jersey governor's race, incumbent Democrat Jon Corzine trails Republican Chris Christie by 13 percentage points.
In Pennsylvania, Republican-turned-Democratic Sen. Arlen Specter trails Republican challenger Pat Toomey by 12 percentage points.
Posted by BigPasture at 08/13/2009 @ 11:10pm
BigPasture-you are so tediously linear. can't you think big or must you resort to polls and more polls.kvh and who are you, a monsanto cow??
Posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel at 08/13/2009 @ 11:13pm
" And while Lincoln's way of picking a cabinet frames this transition moment,..."
posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel on 08/13/2009 @ 10:19pm
'Lincoln was told that Grant was incompetent, ambitious, and a drunk. (All three of these things were untrue.) But Lincoln needed more than anything to win the war, and he told Grant's detractor in no uncertain terms that his general would keep his job; not matter what ever other faults he might have, Lincoln said, Grant took the war to the enemy. "I cannot spare this man," he said. "He fights."'
A lesson for the ages it seems....
Posted by Benchrest at 08/13/2009 @ 11:15pm
KvH: "Couldn't he have used his pulpit and brilliant speaking skills to explain that what we need to fear is joblessness-- not deficits?"
This is his single biggest mistake....talking about heading off joblessness and letting Congress, rather than from him, roll out the $800 billion of Pork!
almost 7 million have lost jobs in this Great Recession, more than half of those since Magic was elected!
Divide $800 billion by 7 million is appr. $114k for each person who has lost his/her job......imagine what could've been done over the first 18 months of his administration!
Thank God he didn't do so....he could now be steamrolling us w/whatever he wanted.
The informed Right had pegged BHO as a liberal (truth be told, not that hard to discern based on his track record) and has only been surprised by his audacity to go for broke on all fronts so early....must be that "can't waste a crisis" FISHY mindset....Thank God he did so!
The Far Left, that's you, Ms. KvH, and all your writers, thought him a "Centrist".....nice delusions.
Sucks for you....cause, IMHO, Hillary would've delivered more of what you wanted since the Clintons, do have a lot of favors they could've called in.
Another thought in the back of my mind I'll share here......I believe a lot of Dem pols, are `fair weather' friends of Obama......it's not a stretch to think that many of them just know that The Messiah really haven't paid the `traditional' dues to be sitting in the POTUS seat....and that he is POTUS fundamentally because he looks black, PERIOD!
Even McCain didn't do what he should have....attack Magic's being mentored and `uncled' by the Rev. Wright while also throwing his own (white) grandma under the bus, TWICE, the most recent about the hip replacement he DOESN'T think she was worth having!
Posted by Happy at 08/13/2009 @ 11:35pm
I agree that Obama is not as progressive as most of us would want him to be. But in this nation to deem him as centrist is way too much Ms. Vanden Heuvel.
I think altogether that his platform has been around building consensus while supporting moderately progressive agendas. Well, that is what we got. Kucinich will never be elected in this country. Let's support what we got unless there is reason to suspect treachery. I might be candid, but I don't think he has any bad will at all. On the contrary, he has raised these eternal American problems to debate and is seeking reforms with a strong will. Certainly to the left of say Clinton for example. What else have we gotten in the last 40 years?
Why is he obsessed with majorities and consensus? I don't know, he ran a campaign on "America, not blue nor red", so I come to the conclusion that he is extremely idealistic. Putting bridges that Republicans will never cross. Appealing to the best of persons while not acknowledging politicians' play.
He should know better. Yes, I agree. But, we should know better too. We should know whom to support for the sake of our progressive agenda. We should know better that he is over our party mentality seeking something better that is not present in our time yet.
I agree on supporting organized movements over our agenda, if those movements are reasonable enough to go for the possible things. I don't support abandoning him at this time when the right is trying to roast him. Will we moderate our claims for the greater good? Or do we want to scare more people and then defeat completely Obama's administration?
Yes, I agree this a historic moment. On which side will The Nation be?
Posted by Frank42 at 08/13/2009 @ 11:39pm
A lesson for the ages it seems....
Posted by Benchrest at 08/13/2009 @ 11:15pm
Nice to see you're around! Too busy these days.....so many banters now go on for dozens of posts! Me? I am turning myself into an Insurgent commenter....you never know where I will pop up and fire a rocket-propelled zinger....:~)
Funny coincidence...when I'm busy, the market goes up.....must be my personal productivity...LOL!
Posted by Happy at 08/13/2009 @ 11:43pm
KVH, here is a more concise look at the problem. Obamanation thinks he is still campaigning and doesn't have a clue that he won the election!
A look at President Obama's health care "town hall" Tuesday in Portsmouth, N.H., shows the president out-spoke his audience by a ratio of nearly 9-to-1.
Here's the scorecard.
Obama: 8,619 words.
Audience: 1,186 words.
That's hardly the kind of even-handed exchange of ideas that marked the town meetings of colonial America.
If the American people want to be PREACHED to they will attend the church of their choice! What is even worse is everytime he opens his mouth he is either lieing about something or totally misrepresenting the facts, statistics, and more importantly his real INTENT!
Now that is thinking Big enough for anyone actually listening to the words coming out ovf his mouth!!!
Posted by BigPasture at 08/13/2009 @ 11:51pm
Funny coincidence...when I'm busy, the market goes up.....must be my personal productivity...LOL!
Posted by Happy at 08/13/2009 @ 11:43pm
Good to see you too.
Just be sure to enjoy the fruits of your labor and go have fun once in a while instead of frickin working all the time.
"It's not the fact that life is so short, it's the fact your dead so long that sucks."
Posted by Benchrest at 08/13/2009 @ 11:53pm
almost 7 million have lost jobs in this Great Recession, more than half of those since Magic was elected! Posted by Happy at 08/13/2009 @ 11:35pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Odd Happy, from what I've read the actual number of unemployed is reaching 15 million and those jobs are not returning! Funny how the leftist want to PUNISH the job creators and the corporations employing Americans and somehow in their fuzzy headed thinking this will improve the economy and create jobs?
Instead of pouring capital into the economy creating jobs the Demoncrats poured money into their political supporters, rescued their union supporter and made them owners of the manufactorers the unions themselves have virtually driven into bankruptcy! With economic geniuses like this who need competing economies to destroy ours?
Posted by BigPasture at 08/14/2009 @ 12:02am
Posted by Happy at 08/13/2009 @ 11:35pm
Gramm/Mozilo '012 -- A Team For A Happy America.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/14/2009 @ 12:05am
If we actually needed more proof that the Demoncrats and Obamanation actually either hate or disreguard the free speech rights, the equal representation rights, and even the voting rights of Americans the healthcare fiasco put it clearly in the spotlight!
Thier jackbooted union goons have beaten, shoved, pushed, cursed citizens reguardless of age, race, or gender and these Demoncrats who are AGAINST voter IDs at election time are showing true colors. (you know red with a yellow hammer and sickle!)
"Americans who want to express their opinions on health care reform at town halls across the country are encountering a host of roadblocks, ranging from fake schedules to a demand that they show their driver's licenses or photo identification.
Supporters of President Obama's plan say they are pushing back against opposition that is disruptive and designed to shut down debate. But opponents say the supporters' tactics are underhanded and designed to undermine democracy in action.
In Texas, Rep. Gene Green's office is requiring town hall attendees to present a photo ID that proves they live in his district."
What liars and hypocrits one and all!
Posted by BigPasture at 08/14/2009 @ 12:25am
The town hollers of the blogisphere are out once more.
My wife tells me the kefir we drink is nearly 2% alcohol. We've been drinking it for health. After seeing the plethora of troll comments, I think I'll drink a gallon tonight.
KVH, can you add a nausea tax to Happy's Nation subscription?
Posted by Sorelish at 08/14/2009 @ 12:36am
Were you saying this before the election? I could be misremembering, but during the campaign, The Nation's general opinion seemed to be "Vote for Obama, he's the Left's savior!" I remember a little about Obama being just another politician, but not much. I suppose that as a news organization, it would be irresponsible for you to let something like honesty get in the way of ensuring the election of the guy who opposes you slightly less.
As for bridges... any of us who expects a Democrat (or Republican) to really represent us has become the proud owner of the Golden Gate Bridge. At least it's gay-friendly.
Posted by Mandaliet at 08/14/2009 @ 12:44am
Posted by Sorelish at 08/14/2009 @ 12:36am | ignore this person | warn this person
While you are at it, you better drink one to Obamanations deals with big Pharma, what a President!
----------------------
Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion. 1. Agree to increase of Medicaid rebate from 15.1 - 23.1% ($34 billion)
2. Agree to get FOBs done (but no agreement on details -- express disagreement on data exclusivity which both sides say does not affect the score of the legislation.) ($9 billion)
3. Sell drugs to patients in the donut hole at 50% discount ($25 billion) This totals $68 billion
4. Companies will be assessed a tax or fee that will score at $12 billion. There was no agreement as to how or on what this tax/fee will be based.
Total: $80 billion
In exchange for these items, the White House agreed to:
1. Oppose importation
2. Oppose rebates in Medicare Part D
3. Oppose repeal of non-interference
4. Oppose opening Medicare Part B
Posted by BigPasture at 08/14/2009 @ 12:50am
The reform plan, aimed at providing health care coverage for the nearly 50 million Americans that have none, also faces resistance among some conservative Democrats.People wonder who is behind the town hall riots when anyone discusses health care reform, or Obamacare – the answer is Conservatives for Patients' Rights. Conservatives for Patients Rights, or the CPR, is headed by one Rick Scott – who isn't a doctor – but used to be the CEO of a hospital, and under his watch, his medical administration defrauded Medicare of $1.7 billion through a practice called upcoding, wherein a Medicare patient gets treated, but Medicare is billed for additional tests that never took place. (That's fraud.) Realistically, Conservatives for Patients Rights and Mr. Scott will never need short term loans, and the only reason why they oppose the bill is that they want the money from the program for themselves. Read more click http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/08/06/rick-scott/
Posted by AlyanaP at 08/14/2009 @ 12:51am
republican party has been forever castrated!!! Is there something you idiotic, lying, mutha sucking, do nothing while bush/cheney stole the country and raped many of you supporters have to say that is true? NO, you don't. You live to lie, scare people and do nothing but complain. I am not a fan of obama. He is a big let down for the Democrats, but the way you attack him is just plain jealousy. Fuck yourselves!!! Rove really destroyed your party and most Senators and Congressmen let him. You committed political suicide with your eyes wide open.
Posted by Tiger2Lover at 08/14/2009 @ 02:44am
Yes, progressives need to "get real" about Obama. The president and his administration, for their part, need to get better. Rarely, if ever, has an American politician fallen so far below the expectations of his or her followers, even if we grant that those expectations were in many quarters unrealistic in the extreme.
Regardless of whatever disappointments may have dashed to pieces all the fond hopes and giddy fancies of the past, this administration simply must move forward and must do better. Far better. For the sake of all Americans and for the very survival of the nation.
Posted by feinfein at 08/14/2009 @ 02:57am
How many people have died in Afghanistan in August?
Posted by bleedingheart at 08/14/2009 @ 05:51am
Katrina, I am not sure I agree with the way you view Obama. As you said, FDR became more progressive while he was president. Obama will have to do the same and use his high office to twist the blue dog idiot's arms to that they actually represent those who voted for them and not those who contributed the most to their campaigns.
Bill Clinton said something along the lines that being president meant that you smiled in front of the cameras but were meaner than a son of a bitch behind closed doors. That's how things get done in D.C. not by reaching across the isle and getting republicans to agree because hell will freeze over before those bought off jackasses concede on anything. If they stand for anything, they stand for the status quo and international corporations. The democrats are supposed to be the party for the working people of this country and it's high time they started acting that way. Otherwise it truly is a lost cause and the majority of people in this country have no representation and business entities have more rights than an actual person does.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/14/2009 @ 07:29am
Having the candidate you voted for win isn't a question of utopia or hell.
(Given John Edwards admission of paternity,) the real question is, "Will President Obama ultimately lead America in a more progressive direction than Hillary Clinton would have?"
For all your diappointments, well, get used to it. Life is full of disappointments. I think the answer to the question is "Yes, he will."
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/14/2009 @ 07:58am
"Now, no one on the left with any savvy or history believed we wouldn't live-- and learn --through disappointment."
Gee..."the Left will be disappointed"....hmmm.....where did I hear that before?!???!?!??
Some poster....can't place the name...had a nick sounded like an Eric Stoltz/Cher flick.....hmmm?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 08:18am
"Life is full of disappointments."---Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/14/2009 @ 07:
True enough, Darin....case in point-
"Best scenario: Palin's as wonderful as I imagine her to be (honestly, that's not possible) and McCain dies in office after a couple years and Palin runs as the incumbent."----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/10/2008 @ 2:39pm
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 08:20am
well the economy has bottomed out and the recovery has begun. it will take time.
obama's moves in his first few months may not have been perfect, but apparently not so bad. parasites like the health insurance industry will fight fight fight, and the fight is ongoing.
the pres is about to ramp up the PR barnstorming machine. lets see how that goes.
but even the apolitical ignorant have some foggy idea that the republican do not have their interests in mind.
seriously - the right wing propaganda tanks are just rehashing the same tired ol lies and half truths as always, hoping that continuous blaring of these lies will lodge in the brains of half-wits and scare them out of the remaining half just like in the 90's.
but something has changed and if the REAL dems can stick to i, and grass roots organizations don't let up - we have SOMETHING.
i saw an ad by AHIP (the umbrella group of the nice, sweet, caring, health insurance industry) promising to never cut people off for pre-existing conditions the other day.
they are scared - good. they are even FESSIN' UP to their perfidy and parasitism...lol...
history is against them.
Posted by dexter666 at 08/14/2009 @ 08:24am
"Life is full of disappointments."---Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/14/2009 @ 07:
True enough, Darin....case in point-
"Best scenario: Palin's as wonderful as I imagine her to be (honestly, that's not possible) and McCain dies in office after a couple years and Palin runs as the incumbent."----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/10/2008 @ 2:39pm
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 08:20am | ignore this person | warn this person
---digging up almost a year old post ... GGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTCHA!
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 08:55am
seriously - the right wing propaganda tanks are just rehashing the same tired ol lies and half truths as always, hoping that continuous blaring of these lies will lodge in the brains of half-wits and scare them out of the remaining half just like in the 90's. ...
Posted by dexter666 at 08/14/2009 @ 08:24am
Yes indeed. I recall someone in the first Bush administration saying that they created reality and when people figured out what that reality was, they'd have a new one created. Sounds a lot like Karl Rove but creating reality?
The rovian playbook is to lie, continue to lie, lie loud, long and stick with the lie....eventually some people will believe that lie to be true because they've heard it so many times. Sound familiar?
How many times do you turn on your television or read in the papers or on the internet something about these "death panels"? They don't exist anywhere in the bills, but they certainly are a reality in media and the media keeps repeating the same story over and over again and the mentally challenged GOP ditto heads are screaming at the tops of their lungs about grandma being euthanized by uncle sam because they believe this to be true.
W based his entire political platform on the you can fool some of the people all of the time....the 30% crowd that has no money but still votes for the big business party. There is no reasoning with these people nor their representatives.
Obama needs to tell the GOP to go screw themselves, and have congress push this through without the GOP. If the 60 vote majority holds, the GOP can all vote now against something will be popular in the future similar to medicare.
Once people have an option other than being screwed by the private health care insurance companies, they'll like the choice option.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/14/2009 @ 09:18am
KVH, you can just start thinking about 2012 and beyond. Obama can only disappoint you. You think he is a centrist, yet hope he becomes more progressive. You probably think his heart is sort of in the right place. The problem is that his life experience and education have provided him with no skill whatsoever to actually govern. He is good at speaking from a teleprompter and that is it. Why do you think he has any insight into health care, energy, technology, business, commerce, defense, research, manufacturing, finance, anything. Anything besides Constitutional law and racism! There is no Obama Health Plan because he wouldn't have a clue how to deal with anything so complex. Just vague generalities like everything he talks about. Zero leadership skills. Bad recruiting skills. A leader with zero knowledge about vast areas of importance to actually governing. You got yourself an orator and that's it. God help all of us!
Posted by sntauri at 08/14/2009 @ 09:42am
no public option = no 2nd term.
The Obama admin are flattering/deluding themselves if they think they can finesse this one.
Failure will be touted, regardless of the packaging rhetoric of a non-reform reform; blood will color the waters red, and the sharks will swoop in. for the '10 primaries & even more vengefully in '12.
Posted by sloper at 08/14/2009 @ 09:58am
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 08:55am
Urmy believes in the "Winston Smith memory hole" theory of political discourse.
DTT argues that "Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia"....urmy insists "Says so in the IngSoc Times...prove him wrong...and don't resort to any of your Goldstein lies from the past. It doesn't exist!"
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 10:24am
well the economy has bottomed out and the recovery has begun.
Posted by dexter666 at 08/14/2009 @ 08:24am
better cross your toes:
"Congressional Oversight Panel - August 11 Report - The Continued Risk of Troubled Assets
"...But, it is likely that an overwhelming portion of the troubled assets from last October remain on bank balance sheets today.
If the troubled assets held by banks prove to be worth less than their balance sheets currently indicate, the banks may be required to raise more capital. If the losses are severe enough, some financial institutions may be forced to cease operations. This means that the future performance of the economy and the performance of the underlying loans, as well as the method of valuation of the assets, are critical to the continued operation of the banks.
...If the economy worsens, especially if unemployment remains elevated or if the commercial real estate market collapses, then defaults will rise and the troubled assets will continue to deteriorate in value. Banks will incur further losses on their troubled assets. The financial system will remain vulnerable to the crisis conditions that TARP was meant to fix."
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/14/2009 @ 10:36am
ibbs:
"Unfortunately, as the Depression example suggests, this can take agonizingly long. According to data from the Federal Reserve, household debt peaked at 128 percent of disposable income in 2007 (meaning the average person was borrowing* almost one-third more than they were making after taxes). As of the end of March, despite a dramatic rise in saving after the crisis hit, that ratio had only fallen to 123 percent. (The same ratio stood at under 50 percent in the mid-'50s and around 70 percent as late as the mid-'80s.) A recent San Francisco Fed paper notes that it took Japanese companies, which had a similar level of indebtedness when their real-estate bubble popped in the early '90s, about a decade to push the ratio down to a still-high 95 percent.
Alas, it's hard to believe voters will wait a decade for something resembling normal growth. Even three years' worth of patience seems like a lot to ask--which presents a problem for a president who has to run for re-election in 2012."
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/14/2009 @ 11:07am
KVH-You were spot on as usual to say that it would take a massive movement to bring about change-Obama said as much during his victory speech. Can't remember exactly and don't feel like googling it, but if memory serves he said 'now its up to you.'
I don't think a lot of people got that message. All of the people that were sending mass campaign emails and dancing in the streets the night of his election, I don't know where all of these people are now.
Obama's hawkish nature disturbs me as a progressive. Perhaps his surge in Afghanistan and his continuing of Bush policies regarding detainees at Bagram, continuing to hire mercenaries (Blackwater-Triple Canopy) in Afghan/Iraq, perhaps these are bargaining chips used to gain the upper hand on progressive domestic legislation, but if this is the case then I have a hard time understanding the bailout, the foreclosure assistance plans that don't seem to be doing anything, and the subsidies to the pharma industry.
Posted by thefullaunty at 08/14/2009 @ 11:21am
"According to data from the Federal Reserve, household debt peaked at 128 percent of disposable income in 2007..."---Posted by frosty zoom at 08/14/2009 @ 11:07am
I'm sorry. You're quoting data from...whom????
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 11:44am
The progressives need to get smart. A little reverse pyschology maybe.
How about
WE DON'T WANT HEALTHCARE! ENOUGH GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE. WHAT WOULD THE FOUNDING FATHERS SAY? AND WE NEED TO SAVE TAXPAYER MONEY TO FUND OUR WARS AND BAILOUT OUR CORPORATIONS. NOT A PENNY FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS. DON'T KILL GRANNY, KILL HEALTHCARE AND HEALTHCARE INSURANCE REFORM. WE WANT THE FREE MARKET TO DECIDE.
Watch the pushback.
Posted by OneVote at 08/14/2009 @ 11:47am
The rovian playbook is to lie, continue to lie, lie loud, long and stick with the lie....eventually some people will believe that lie to be true because they've heard it so many times. Sound familiar?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/14/2009 @ 09:18am
No this is the left's MO as dictated by the mentor of Obama politics and many here at the Nation.
It is Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals
< The Purpose
In this book we are concerned with how to create mass organizations to seize power and give it to the people; to realize the democratic dream of equality, justice, peace.... "Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.' This means revolution." p.3
"Radicals must be resilient, adaptable to shifting political circumstances, and sensitive enough to the process of action and reaction to avoid being trapped by their own tactics and forced to travel a road not of their choosing." p.6
"A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." p.10
"An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth -- truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing.... To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations...." pp.10-11 >
http://tinyurl.com/6ghf2b
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
You were saying Liv??
'Human beings respond to rituals, myths and mysticism; especially if packaged together as religion. As the object and orientation of behaviors helps define religions, any discussion of religion requires definitions of behavior, religion, religious behavior and religious dogma.
Behavior is a movement of a person or a part of a person through space and time. Religion is a formalized practice of submission to dominant figures. Religious behavior is submissive movements to dominant figures using specific rituals. Religious dogma are unverifiable ideas that require formal acceptance and restraint from skepticism.
http://www.soulwork.net/religion.htm
"Religious coaches" using psychology and suppression of discourse and debate? HEAVEN forbid.
Posted by OneVote at 08/14/2009 @ 12:10pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Once again, I call you b.s. Who's distorting the facts; now in 2009? Is it the 40 million uninsured or the insurance companies that wish to keep things as they are? Also, truth is truth, period.
Anyone lying to get someone to side with him or her obviously has alterior motives. For example, why is it that the major campaign donators wish to keep their corporate names off the list so they put their money into tax sheltered organizations that further their agenda? 1) Because it's tax exempt and 2) because they don't want people knowing they are backing these things up.
You talk about the democrats trying to muzzle "the people" in these town hall meetings when in fact, it's the tea baggers trying to muzzle anyone who wishes to discuss the possible bills at hand. That is lying to it's core. The rethugs are the best in the business at it. How did Karl Rove put it, attack them on their strong points and do whatever it takes to diminish those points. The GOP impeaches one man because he lied under oath about a b.j. and then turns around and lies to the public about thing that don't exist in bills. HYPOCRITS!
I don't hold any grand illusions about those on the left side of the isle either, but at least some of the time their votes follow their statements. Most republican leaders can't go home after work without laughing their asses off on how they pulled another hoax off.
Explain to me why you are all for dumping billions of dollars into the military industrial complex but could give a shit less if your neighbor who recently lost his/her job had to choose between feeding the kids and dying or paying for medicines and starving the kids. That's what side you've chosen whether you admit it or not.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/14/2009 @ 12:18pm
How many people have died in Afghanistan in August?
Posted by bleedingheart at 08/14/2009 @ 05:51am
If you can find the answer, it is probably on page 10A of your local paper, under the fold.
You see, items that were front and center with a Republican in the White House are now buried. Obama's promises forgotten.
This is what happens when the press fails to do its job.
At least the Nation has the guts to ask questions. And on occasion to even question authority.
Posted by freiheit1 at 08/14/2009 @ 12:27pm
Katrina, this is the best piece you have written on the situation, in my humble opinion. The role of the left should always be to speak truth to power, not parrot the power. Keep up the good work. And thanks.
Posted by perryfellwock at 08/14/2009 @ 12:30pm
Hey Big P, talk about being preached to, I'd say thats all you do, that and cut and paste.
Posted by Denise29 at 08/14/2009 @ 12:51pm
P.S., while all the brouhaha over health care is occuring, it seems all the media is ignoring what Geithner (for Obama) and Bernake just did - monetizing the debt. Could The Nation please have someone who understands this write an article. As far as I know this has never been done before in American history. Should we be concerned about a "Zimbabwe moment" and hyperinflation if their plan fails. This could be more important than anything else that is going on.
Posted by perryfellwock at 08/14/2009 @ 12:55pm
You talk about the democrats trying to muzzle "the people" in these town hall meetings when in fact, it's the tea baggers trying to muzzle anyone who wishes to discuss the possible bills at hand. That is lying to it's core.
Explain to me why you are all for dumping billions of dollars into the military industrial complex but could give a shit less if your neighbor who recently lost his/her job had to choose between feeding the kids and dying or paying for medicines and starving the kids. That's what side you've chosen whether you admit it or not.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/14/2009 @ 12:18pm
On your first point, I have made no charge that the Democrats are trying to muzzle the protestors at these Town Hall meetings. So your charge is false
Secondly the constitution requires the US govt to provide for the security and defense of the nations and it's citizens. Unless you are suicidal, it is imperative and mandatory to keep the nation intact.
As to the healthcare, I've said all along that there is nothing stopping the individual states from carrying out the power given to them by the 10th Amendment in establishing whatever level of social services including healthcare that the citizens of each state demand and vote for.
My question remains to you and any other who challenge me as you have:
Why aren't you concentrating on the states who already have the authority to implement single payer or whatever other kind of healthcare program that they wish?
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 12:57pm
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 08:55am
Urmy believes in the "Winston Smith memory hole" theory of political discourse.
DTT argues that "Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia"....urmy insists "Says so in the IngSoc Times...prove him wrong...and don't resort to any of your Goldstein lies from the past. It doesn't exist!"
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 10:24am | ignore this person | warn this person
--i don't believe in what you accuse me of...and i certainly never said what you attributed to me in quotes. if i had, you'd have posted the link!
;)
but keep up your GOTCHA moments Mask. it's clearly the oxygen that keeps your handle alive!
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 1:31pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Interesting...let's look at that closer...in the Partisan Mirror-
"A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." p.10
Or..."A fundmentalist/evangelical Christian begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of Man's sinful nature by the Devil. From this he logically proceeds to the Rapture to end the world, then into the third stage of the Millenial Rule of Christ a new social order of the dictatorship of the Lord, and finally the last stage -- the paradise of Heaven upon Earth.
Seems to work.
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 1:41pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Interesting...let's look at that closer...in the Partisan Mirror-
"A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." p.10
Or..."A fundmentalist/evangelical Christian begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of Man's sinful nature by the Devil. From this he logically proceeds to the Rapture to end the world, then into the third stage of the Millenial Rule of Christ a new social order of the dictatorship of the Lord, and finally the last stage -- the paradise of Heaven upon Earth.
Seems to work.
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 1:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--Or…"a Mask begins with his prime truth that all posts should be saved and exploited for any contradictions. From this Mask logically proceeds to not post anything substantive of his own, because being caught in his own contradiction would cause the end of his carefully crafted personality as an anonymous blog commenter--which of course leads to the last stage--resorting to calling other posters names when they challenge him to take his Mask off.
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 2:07pm
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 2:07pm
Again, do I need to worry about you boiling my kid's pet rabbit alive?
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 2:53pm
Again, do I need to worry about you boiling my kid's pet rabbit alive?
Posted by Mask at 08/14/2009 @ 2:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--recycled ad hominem...the lowest form of ad hominem out there!
wish i could say you were better than that...
heheh
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 3:01pm
How many times can one be lied to before you get it, and you stop not only believing or even wanting to believe in that person, but you stop looking at that person, or changing the channel or muting the TV. I reached that stage early on with Bush when it was very soon apparent that the truth was exactly the opposite of whatever he said.It's now become the same with Obama who clearly was handpicked and groomed to continue the Bush dictatorship. All the lies really started with the 2000 Supreme Court betrayal of this country, and it's been downhill ever since, with Souter at least having the conscience to resign. O'Connor's medal of "freedom" is a laugh. The neocons' philosophy was and is based on Leo Strauss' permanent lies and war edict, and Obama is faithfully following the same path, with Zionism, as always, at the helm. He (Rahm) who whispers in the king's ear has the most power.
Posted by mystic at 08/14/2009 @ 3:32pm
Katrina,
I know your heart is in the right place and that you are a fundamental progressive. I on the other hand am independent, both in my thinking and in my politics. This allows me to think with a clear head.
All through the history of this country, our political system has led to and from local politics. That's where intellectual and fair American thought resides. Politicians react to the will of their constituents, that is up until now.
If you and others who think like you, think that Barack Obama has the power to change people's thinking just because he came along at a time when the country was stale with the odor of all things Bush, guess again. He is a nice guy but he's been exposed through his own mouth.
When a President, who has the bully pulpit, tries to enact sweeping change, he's always going to be hit hard. The difference in this day and age is the influence of the internet, cable tv and in the decline of the printed media. I do give President Obama props for his courage and his stamina but I think he is making a huge mistake pushing so hard and exposing himself to 24/7 tv appearances. The polls reflect that.
Is it any wonder that The President wanted to get this bill out before August? For a guy who campaigned on transparency, he's really transparent on this one.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 08/14/2009 @ 4:37pm
intellecutal and fair american thought resides in local politics?
gunslinger, your faux intellectualism and faux independence is laughable.
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 4:52pm
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 4:52pm
I should probably resent that remark because you don't know me and probably shouldn't judge someone you don't know but I won't because your remark is a symptom of the blogosphere.
Wasn't it Tip O'Neill who said, "All politics is local?"
That was my point. From the origin of this country we've had a government that supposedly repesented the collective thought of the individual localities. The rest of my post isn't that hard to understand.
As for my independence, it's something that I place real value on. I'm able to think for myself. I must admit that I do find entertaining the banter among some of the posters here.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:06pm
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Umm. That doesn't say anything about lying anti. I don't know if you read it but that has nothing to do with what the previous poster posted. I think anyone can admit that Karl Rove's main method of getting people elected is lies. I mean think about Bush running against McCain when Rove cooked up the rumor that McCain had an illegitimate daughter. Come on now. Even you should be able to admit that Karl Rove like all politicians lies like it was a second language.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:09pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 08/14/2009 @ 12:27pm
Actually the death toll in Afghanistan was never on the front page. Even under Bush. Only the one in Iraq.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:13pm
Posted by gunslinger1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:06pm | ignore this person | warn this person
"collective thought of individual localities"
what if those individual localities disagree? or can't come to a compromise?
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 6:14pm
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 6:14pm
Check out CSPAN sometime.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:17pm
Umm. That doesn't say anything about lying anti. I don't know if you read it but that has nothing to do with what the previous poster posted. I think anyone can admit that Karl Rove's main method of getting people elected is lies. I mean think about Bush running against McCain when Rove cooked up the rumor that McCain had an illegitimate daughter. Come on now. Even you should be able to admit that Karl Rove like all politicians lies like it was a second language.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:09pm
So, not being bound to the truth is not the same as lying?
"An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth -- truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing.... To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations...." pp.10-11 >
http://tinyurl.com/6ghf2b
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 7:16pm
"An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth -- truth to him is relative and changing;"
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
Anti,
I find it interesting that you didn't post the remainder of what Alinsky wrote:
"He accepts the late Justice Learned Hand's statement that "the mark of a free man is that ever-gnawing inner uncertainty as to whether or not he is right."
The consequence is that he is ever on the hunt for the causes of man's plight and the general propositions that help to make some sense out of man's irrational world. He must constantly examine life, including his own, to get some idea of what it is all about, and he must challenge and test his own findings. Irreverance, essential to questioning, is a requisite. Curiosity becomes compulsive. His most frequent word is "why?"
Does this then mean that the organizer in a free society for a free society is rudderless? No, I believe that he has a far better sense of direction and compass than the closed-society organizer with his rigid political ideology.
First, the free-society organizer is loose, resilient, fluid, and on the move in a society which is itself in a state of constant change. To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations our society presents. In the end, he has one conviction – a belief that if people have the power to act, in the long run they will, most of the time, reach the right decisions. The alternative to this would be rule by the elite – either a dictatorship or some form of a political aristocracy."
continued...
Posted by FLaim at 08/14/2009 @ 8:16pm
...continued
"I am not concerned if this faith in people is regarded as a prime truth and therefore a contradiction of what I have already written, for life is a story of contradictions. Believing in people, the radical has the job of organizing them so that they will have the power and opportunity to best meet each unforeseeable future crisis as they move ahead in their eternal search for those values of equality, justice, freedom, peace, a deep concern for the preciousness of human life, and all those rights and values propounded by Judaeo-Christianity and the democratic political tradition.
Democracy is not an end but the best means toward achieving these values. This is my credo for which I live and, if need be, die."
-Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals (1971)
Posted by FLaim at 08/14/2009 @ 8:17pm
I find it interesting that you didn't post the remainder of what Alinsky wrote:
Posted by FLaim at 08/14/2009 @ 8:16pm
But I guess that's what happens when you get your quotes from someone who thinks Harry Potter is the work of the devil and that the Great Seal of the United States of America really is advocating an ominous New World Order.
<sheesh>
Posted by FLaim at 08/14/2009 @ 8:30pm
Posted by gunslinger1 at 08/14/2009 @ 6:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
that doesn't define your phrase "collective thought of individual localities"
Posted by urmygyro at 08/14/2009 @ 9:20pm
How many people have died in Afghanistan in August? Posted by bleedingheart at 08/14/2009 @ 05:51am | ignore this person | warn this person
too many. we need a peace process.
Posted by emile duBois at 08/14/2009 @ 11:00pm
WE WANT THE FREE MARKET TO DECIDE....
Posted by OneVote at 08/14/2009 @ 11:47am | ignore this person | warn this person
AND TO KILL....don't have health insurance? or enough health insurance? or have you been dropped from coverage at the time you need it the most? The free market doesn't give a damn.
Posted by jarshadow at 08/15/2009 @ 1:14pm
"An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth -- truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing.... To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations...." pp.10-11 >
http://tinyurl.com/6ghf2b
Posted by antisocialist at 08/14/2009 @ 11:54am
You need to do some reading comprehension so you can actually understand what that sentence means. What that person is saying is that an organizer is not bound by dogma in this sense they are using the word truth to be a synonym for dogma. Which means they are not bound by a single unchangeable view. Their view is determined by situation. Which means it has nothing to do with lies. If you read the statement without the lens of hatred maybe you would then be able to understand it instead of just finding anything you can to hate about it.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/15/2009 @ 3:57pm
If anything, Obama's inability (or unwillingness) to make any progress (as in the word progressive) shows that we are still a country run by the financial mob, the zionist mob, the new world order mob and the Jesus mob. (with many common members.) Bush was able to do so much damage because he was a mobster himself, and Obama probably owes his soul a million times over to the Geithners' and Summers' and other mobsters that got him where he is. And any reasonable proposal Obama makes is constantly undermined by conservative bureaucrats and Congresscritters who don't want ANY change, like Baucusian Democrats (if I may invent a new cuss word) and the pottymouths of the mainstream media, all mobsters themselves.
Progressives have been guilty of optimism with the election of Obama, but the cancer is vicious and malignant. I wonder how many death threats the guy gets each week? And most are probably from inside the government.......
Posted by DejaVu at 08/15/2009 @ 5:21pm
KVH asks:
>>Why not include (in Obama's inner circle) a Joseph Stiglitz <<
Yes, he would be perfect.
He has become prominent and popular on the Left for arguing that the the cost of the Iraq war is much larger than supposed, and may yet wreck this country. Because the enormous expense of caring for the many maimed and wounded, has not been taken into account.
Actually that is the most ridiculous and irresponsible claim to come out of any serious economist yet, let alone a Nobel laureate.
Consider WWII. Then we had 400,000 fatalities, as against over 4,000 in Iraq. Back in WWII, for every death there were at least three live casualties, which made for over 1.2 million sick and wounded. If we figure, not 3 wounded for every death in Iraq, but 30, that 120,000, would still be a tiny fraction of the wounded the nation had to care for in WWII and right after. Furthermore, back then we had less than half the population of today and a fraction of today's GDP. In short we were much poorer, but had many more wounded to tend, relative to population. Yet, back then, nobody ever thought or said, those long term cost were ruinous, nevermind writing a book on that theme, denouncing the war on that basis.
In short, Stiglitz is a hopped up ideologue and jerk. No wonder The Nation likes him.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 08/15/2009 @ 5:44pm
"Back in WWII, for every death there were at least three live casualties, which made for over 1.2 million sick and wounded."
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 08/15/2009 @ 5:44pm
There are so many things wrong about this post, I don't know where to begin. You've heard of tunnel vision? This is tunnel thinking.
"VA has an integrated delivery system designed to provide medically prescribed prosthetic and sensory aids, devices, assistive aids, repairs and services to disabled individuals to facilitate treatment of their medical conditions. "
http://tinyurl.com/qetd4d
The VA has stated the number of veterans seeking these services from VA has increased 71 percent since 2000 to 1.5 million in 2005.
In Rand Corp.'s 2008 report, "Invisible Wounds of War," they estimated that PTSD treatment alone would cost $6.2 billion over two years. They also projected that only 53 percent of service members with PTSD or depression had sought help from a provider in the past year.
In 1945, PTSD treatment consisted of kicking the dog, smacking around the wife and/or kids, or getting blitzed at the local after a day on the line.
The cost incurred by traumatic brain injury, based on all cases diagnosed through June 2007, is estimated at $600 million to $900 million.
A leg prosthesis can range in cost from $5,000.00 to $50,000. An arm can range from $3,000.00 to $30,000.
In 1945, you got a set of crutches, a wheelchair or something that looked like a hand made of wood.
The number of automobiles produced annually quadrupled between 1946 and 1955.
Aided by the GI Bill, mortgages became easily affordable for returning servicemen, and contributed to a housing boom. The baby boom further contributed to increasing housing starts.
In 1945, we were not in the middle of a recession.
Posted by FLaim at 08/15/2009 @ 8:57pm
Damn!
In 1945, a White Castle went from 5¢ to 10¢.
Tonight's sashimi dinner just went from $15.50 to $19.50.
Posted by FLaim at 08/15/2009 @ 9:40pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/15/2009 @ 3:57pm
No, it means that you know nothing about Saul Alinsky and his view of marxism and doing whatever it takes to topple the existing society.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/15/2009 @ 10:19pm
...If the economy worsens, especially if unemployment remains elevated or if the commercial real estate market collapses, then defaults will rise and the troubled assets will continue to deteriorate in value. Banks will incur further losses on their troubled assets. The financial system will remain vulnerable to the crisis conditions that TARP was meant to fix." Posted by frosty zoom at 08/14/2009 @ 10:36am
All caused by the ORIGINAL REPUBLICAN TOTALLY FREE MARKET SYSTEM that rewards indiscriminate greed with bankrupt obesity. How many times do YOU have to try this laissez faire trick with US before YOU admit that it doesn't work??? Hey Newt, how about another moratorium on regulations? Want to shut down the parks again? Good job Frosty! Take another hit of Rush's Hate drug, but be careful, it may be more addictive than heroin.
Posted by thanksbutnothanks at 08/16/2009 @ 06:52am
It is said that Obama gave up on negotiating with the Big Pharma to lower drug prices, also gave up on the reimporting of drugs from Canada and Europe, this without even consulting with congress. If this is true, I am done with him. This is the last straw. He has been a disgrace in everything he did so far on Guantanamo, on FISA, on transparency. You don't stick with a horse that runs in the wrong direction while in battle.
Posted by rnagisetty at 08/16/2009 @ 07:38am
It is said that Obama gave up on negotiating with the Big Pharma to lower drug prices, also gave up on the reimporting of drugs from Canada and Europe, this without even consulting with congress. If this is true, I am done with him. This is the last straw. He has been a disgrace in everything he did so far on Guantanamo, on FISA, on transparency. You don't stick with a horse that runs in the wrong direction while in battle.
Posted by rnagisetty at 08/16/2009 @ 07:38am
He has been pretty "Real" to me all along, what's the problem?
He's the Jim Jones of today....his followers gladly drank the Kool-aid, it's just that the eventual `death' comes in a thousand cuts, slow and a good show, for the non-believers, that's the HAPPY me and my side!
Posted by Happy at 08/16/2009 @ 10:19am
All caused by the ORIGINAL REPUBLICAN TOTALLY FREE MARKET SYSTEM that rewards indiscriminate greed with bankrupt obesity. How many times do YOU have to try this laissez faire trick with US before YOU admit that it doesn't work??? Hey Newt, how about another moratorium on regulations? Want to shut down the parks again? Good job Frosty! Take another hit of Rush's Hate drug, but be careful, it may be more addictive than heroin.
Posted by thanksbutnothanks at 08/16/2009 @ 06:52am
Now that's funny and a keeper. Someone thinking Frosty is a conservative. He's way left of the Nation.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/16/2009 @ 12:21pm
Sorry. I stand corrected. Some of his sarcasm was misunderstood.
Posted by thanksbutnothanks at 08/16/2009 @ 4:00pm
Someone thinking Frosty is a conservative. He's way left of the Nation.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/16/2009 @ 12:21pm
And....FZ is so far left, he's totally harmless!
Posted by Happy at 08/16/2009 @ 4:40pm
You move FORWARD. You have plenty of money, Ms Vanden Heuvel. I do, too. The difference is I don't LECTURE people on what to think or how to behave.
You're just a schoolmarm and a square. The only one who "believed" in Obama back whenever was YOU.
I don't have to live in your wretched country, though.
I have excellent single-payer health-care, thanks. No Army. No US military bases. Freedom guaranteed in the constitution. Oh yeah, and non-violent crime is punished non-violently.
Go root for the USA in their wars now, why don't you because your "man of peace" is now in charge of them.
Posted by HebrewHePour at 08/16/2009 @ 5:00pm
It's getting late on Sunday night and I've been wandering around You Tube looking for a song that represents the working stiffs and how they must feel today with all this national left/right, north/south mistrust and the disappointing direction that the conversations are going, and I found the most appropriate song I could find...
Whipping Post by the Allman Bros live part 1 & 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhKnc0XZrs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K8SYmWjV6w&feature=related
It's not the best recording but it does bring me back to a concert I went to in the early 70s when the AB came to the Boston Tea Party on Landsdowne Street. Duane was still alive and we all went nuts when they played this song.
The opening act was a black bluesman named Arthur Big Boy Cruddup who played for about an hour and a half since it was Duane's birthday and the AB got totally loaded before they arrived late. Well Arthur BBC was great too and we all cheered very loud for each and every one of his songs.
That was a great night when north and south, black and white, could get down together through the ultimate healer, music.
Good night and Peace bro.
Posted by thanksbutnothanks at 08/16/2009 @ 7:36pm
Great song. I agree.
Posted by HebrewHePour at 08/16/2009 @ 8:13pm
No, it means that you know nothing about Saul Alinsky and his view of marxism and doing whatever it takes to topple the existing society.
Posted by antisocialist at 08/15/2009 @ 10:19pm
No it means that you misread it and now you are trying to change the subject so you don't have to admit it. You have now left the direct meaning of that passage and have instead went into the realm of, WELL I KNOW WHAT THIS PERSON MEANS AND YOU DON'T. To say I don't know about Saul Alinsky is a MASSIVE assumption on your part because you don't know anything about what I know or don't know. Just admit you read the passage wrong and let's move on instead of trying to turn this into a who knows more spat.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/16/2009 @ 8:19pm
We don't need the left fighting with the left, we need a united front, we need to fight about what we know is the right thing to do, I understand that democracy is messy, but now is the time to stick together, quit being so divided lefties, in all your forms, and do what we did before the election, and trust that we were correct in picking Oboma, and stear him in the right direction as he's trying to do with the general public, not an easy task with his supporters fighting amongst them selves,
Posted by Denise29 at 08/16/2009 @ 10:17pm
....and trust that we were correct in picking Oboma,....
Posted by Denise29 at 08/16/2009 @ 10:17pm
This is not "trust" time...it's VERIFY
Posted by Happy at 08/16/2009 @ 11:07pm
Happy, you actually have YOUR OWN IDEAS and they let you express them?
THE NATION may be showing some small signs of improvement.
They'll never stop worshipping that preening narcissist and grinning killer in the White House but that's because they only care about their own images and careers, not about actual people.
None of them have ever had a relative murdered in front of them or had guns pointed at them or anything like that (because of such things as the "War On Narco Terrorism").
I'm WHITE and I've had all of those experiences and worse.
I still hate taxes and love peace, freedom and social justice, though.
Posted by HebrewHePour at 08/16/2009 @ 11:36pm
This is an important video for all THE NATION's schoolmarms to see before they write the next boring bullshit article blaming some asshole right-wing talk-show host for the real sadism going on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfVULT8vdUk
Posted by HebrewHePour at 08/16/2009 @ 11:43pm
obama IS step and fetch it!!! What a coward!!!
Posted by Tiger2Lover at 08/17/2009 @ 6:21pm
What comes to mind with the President's now completely obvious duplicity is:
Barack, your has "audacity," kicked "hope " in the teeth. I will work to give a swift audacious (of course, metaphorical) kick to the President's butt. I rank his so-called Presidency below Chester Arthur's.
Posted by leafofgrass at 08/17/2009 @ 11:54pm
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 08/15/2009 @ 5:44pm |
You're an idiot who clearly knows f-ck-all about the real costs of war...how's that sand taste?
Posted by snowball777 at 08/18/2009 @ 08:59am