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"If you are willing to volunteer in your neighborhood or give back to your community or serve your country, we will make sure that you can afford a higher education."
-- President Obama, Address to Joint Session of Congress
I've always believed it's important that we redefine national service so that it isn't the exclusive province of the military. That is why this line in President Obama's powerful speech on Tuesday night was good to hear. One critical achievement in the Recovery bill was that it tripled funding for the National Health Service Corps (NHSC) to $300 million to provide incentives -- including debt forgiveness and grants -- for physicians and dentists, medical and dental students, to practice in underserved areas.
Thursday, Senator Bernie Sanders and House Majority Whip James Clyburn announced legislation that is very much in sync with the President's stated priorities. The Access for All Americans Act -- with 21 Senate cosponsors and 72 cosponsors in the House -- would greatly expand the Federally Qualified Health Centers (FQHC) program that currently provides primary care to 18 million Americans in 1,100 community health centers so that every American in a medically underserved area would have access to care. (Even George Bush supported this program.) It would also increase funding for the NHSC over the next five years to $1.1 billion, providing loan repayment and scholarships to those who pursue primary medical and dental care careers in underserved communities, recruiting 24,000 new healthcare professionals to serve those areas.
"Insurance coverage is not the only healthcare crisis that we face," Sen. Sanders said Thursday at a press conference at the Capitol. "Today, over 56 million Americans -- insured and uninsured -- are finding it extremely difficult to gain access to a doctor. They're looking all over their community, they cannot get into a doctor's office. This means that when [many] Americans get sick… they delay going to a doctor, then they end up getting sicker… and then go into an emergency room or end up in a hospital at great cost to our society and to themselves." He noted that 18,000 Americans die annually due to their inability to afford insurance or care.
The legislation is timely since President Obama -- who Sen. Sanders noted was the first co-sponsor of a similar bill he introduced last session -- signaled Tuesday night that he intends to focus on "preventive care, because that is one of the best ways to keep our people healthy and our costs under control." Also, President Obama announced that his 10-year budget will include a $634 billion reserve fund for healthcare reform, half of which "would come from proposed cost savings in Medicare, Medicaid and other health programs," according to the New York Times.
Both Sen. Sanders and Rep. Clyburn pointed out that federal community health centers in mostly impoverished areas -- providing doctors, dentists, mental health counselors and low-cost prescription drugs on a sliding-scale fee so that no one is turned away -- are one of the best ways to achieve those cost savings.
"The American Academy of Family Physicians found that total medical expenses for health center patients were 41 percent lower compared to patients seen elsewhere, okay?" Sen. Sanders later told me. "On average, Medicaid patients seen at health centers have total medical expenses per year that are almost $1,000 less than Medicaid patients who use other providers -- due to inappropriate emergency room use and unnecessary hospital admissions."
Sen. Sanders said that fully funding the bill would raise fifth-year spending from the current $2 billion for 1100 health centers, to $8.3 billion for 4800 health centers that would provide care to 56 million Americans. It's estimated that about 17 million Medicaid patients would be among those receiving care. Just through reducing expenses by $1,000 per Medicaid patient, this would save the health care system $17 billion, more than twice the amount Sen. Sanders and Rep. Clyburn propose spending on the health centers.
Rep. Clyburn reflected on the history of the program that was created in 1966 by one of the cosponsors of the current legislation, Senator Edward Kennedy. Sen. Kennedy was inspired by a clinic opened in Boston by two graduates of Tufts Medical School. The Majority Whip said that the centers have become "pillars in their communities" throughout South Carolina, often serving people who are "50 or 60 miles away from an emergency room."
In a statement, Sen. Kennedy -- who chairs the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee -- said: "At a time when the cost of health care and the number of uninsured are rising, community health centers and the National Health Service Corps are more important than ever. From inner city clinics to low-income communities across the country, they make a large difference in the health of millions of our people… I look forward to working with my colleagues to strengthen these two vital programs as part of our commitment to achieve quality, affordable health care for all Americans."
Rep. Clyburn said he would be speaking with President Obama about the legislation later in the day at a Congressional Black Caucus meeting at the White House.
"Through these proven cost-effective programs, we have an opportunity, over the next five years, to provide comprehensive primary medical care, dental care, mental health counseling, and low cost prescription drugs in every medically-underserved region in the country, and remarkably, to actually save money in the process," Sen. Sanders later told me. "In this hour of deepening economic crisis, President Obama has called on us to invest in programs that work and that meet our people's needs. Community health centers and the National Health Service Corps do both."
With reporting from Capitol Hill by Nation Reporter/Researcher Greg Kaufmann.
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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nice!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/28/2009 @ 7:51pm
This particular program sounds promising. It could end up as part of comprehensive health care reform. I have mentioned in other comments that I feel it would help immensely if we could cover preventative care at the federal level; then, a comprehensive reform (involving the private sector) could work.
Of course, this is such a complicated issue that it could get bogged down again. Hopefully, this won't happen.
Posted by erazma at 02/28/2009 @ 7:52pm
"I've always believed it's important that we redefine national service so that it isn't the exclusive province of the military."
Katrina, I wish you would at least tell us about your own impressive national service and that of your husband's too. It is a good story and would add credibility to your post.
Posted by freiheit1 at 02/28/2009 @ 9:17pm
Is there any way to protect my famiy from this boondoggle? Govt forced care with govt limitations, waiting periods like Canada..govt doctors makng $75k a year unionised, of course...
I digress..
Instead of building new clinics every 100 yards and staffing them with herd of govt unionsed workers... lets save huge money and put these clincs where every person in every town knows where they are and how to get there...
Yes, folks..the place we all know and love..the model of efficiency all good libs love ....
the POST OFFICE(drum roll)...
that way, they can pick up govt checks(saving stamps), pick up the other mail and junk mail(recycle,too!!)and throw it into pre arranged recycle bins right next to the mail boxes..pick stamps as we register to see a doctor...we could turn the 4 out of 7 service windows, that seem to never be occupied when lines are out the door, into a waiting area.
THEN....we could train the mail people as part time health care workers(unionised, of course)..they could keep the same Postal Uniforms but just turn the name tag around and add a new hat(saving money on employees and uniforms..)..
I can hardly wait...
I am sure budget problems will be a thing of the past..since there is no pressure to earn a profit, pay the rent or pesky compettition...
all I want to know is...
1. How do I protect my family from these places and still get my coupons from the junk mail..
2. Where are my Canadian friends going to go when they really need treatment for something major?
3. Will the govt print a list of doctors who opt out of the program altogether, as well as the ones who actualy grad from a real medical school?
$. Will Pelosi, Reid, Clinton, Sanders, Obamas, et al, AND HIS CHILDREN use the same clinics we will?
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/28/2009 @ 9:22pm
I await answers with baited breath...
Is KVH ready to answer this type of question from Karl Rove?
I hope he asks it...
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/28/2009 @ 9:29pm
bernie
Posted by a_bakr at 02/28/2009 @ 10:28pm
"2. Where are my Canadian friends going to go when they really need treatment for something major?"
yes, your extensive list of canadian friends, just takin' up the entire rolodex, eh? not buying it, bro. canadians are very proud of what they have up there, and would never embrace an american system. not even under steven harper, would they.
therefore, your argument is not a good one, if its premise is that socialized medicine is ineffective, cost-effective, etc.....
second, that obama has made universal access to affordable health care a mission of his presidency does not only make economical sense, it also makes ethical and moral sense. how can you deny this?
and that obama would want to reform health care, and access to it, in order to save money down the road (i.e. balanced budgets), why is he suddenly a marxist totalitarian (in some other freak show's words)? can't remember who.
obama INHERITED A MESS. what else can he do, but invest heavily in our nation. what do conservatives have against nation building?
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:03am
"If you are willing to volunteer in your neighborhood or give back to your community or serve your country, we will make sure that you can afford a higher education." -- President Obama, Address to Joint Session of Congress
.
I've always believed it's important that we redefine national service so that it isn't the exclusive province of the military.
Katrina vanden Heuvel
.
This is EXACTLY right! The whole 'greed is good' mentality - gearing your entire life towards fattening your own bank account and then pretending it is a 'good thing' because somehow it allows wealth to 'trickle down' - is so dead. Like the BS about 'creating jobs'...that somehow pay a pittance - or worse, pay foriegn peasants in China or India or Malaysia less than a pittance, all the while getting FAT off their sweat - and getting government tax breaks for 'business expenses' like first class travel, golf outings, and expensive dinners - only to take all of the profits and send them to offshore banks in order to avoid paying taxes - that crap is dead.
President Obama is inspiring a generation, and a nation, in much the same way that FDR and JFK did. It's time to give back - to invest in America for the benefit Americans. There are many ways - NOT just military.
Sen. Sanders later told me. "In this hour of deepening economic crisis, President Obama has called on us to invest in programs that work and that meet our people's needs. Community health centers and the National Health Service Corps do both."
.
Exactly!
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 12:12am
limbaugh's speech at the CPAC was utterly inane. he compared liberals' criticisms of the iraq war to conservative opposition to the stimulus legislation.
how can one engage this level of inanity? seriously, where do i begin pointing out to limbaugh how illogical is this comparison?
opposition to a rapid response to temporarily seize private assets in order to stabilize markets is not anywhere near opposition to a transparently illegal invasion and occupation of a country: which had nothing to do 9.11; who was not a threat to us or our allies; which had no weapons of mass desctruction; whose wider war on terror established legal precedents challenging long-held constitutional foundations....(oh, folks, that last one? uh, how can you dispute that?)
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:13am
"It's time to give back - to invest in America for the benefit Americans. There are many ways - NOT just military."
how many conservatives here are opposed to what she is talking about?
think about it. financial incentives to give back, other than militarily giving back.
health care and education for americans who give something back.
sounds like a nice middle ground solution between socialism and capitalism. reward behavior which rewards the collective first, and the individual second.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:17am
"3. Will the govt print a list of doctors who opt out of the program altogether, as well as the ones who actualy grad from a real medical school?"
from these words, and these words alone, we can determine that the speaker knows absolutely NOTHING about "the program."
of all the ways to constructively engage the question of how to balance our budgets and increase the quality of life for our citizens, why do conservatives constantly incite hatred for civic responsibility and civic engagement? it's almost as if they hate america. no, in fact, i'm not going to guess anymore. conservatives DO hate america. they love themselves (an increasingly male, white, christian and priviledged minority), and hate everyone else.
thank you katrina...
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:26am
Darlaloon,
My family has a number of doctors in it, in fact I was studying to become one and lost interest in the pursuit. I grew up in Wisconsin and Minnesota and I can tell you there were plenty of Canadians in their clinics getting treatment for things that required long waits in Canada.
You have no clue. The health systems you love so much in Europe and Canada had to go back to letting private practices open and they are flurishhing.
You will no doubt be happy with a govt program since you will be on the receiving end of what I know willbe shit service and care while I will get the bill. And I will pay it because I will have no choice.
But I will never let my family enter the place.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 12:53am
" I grew up in Wisconsin and Minnesota and I can tell you there were plenty of Canadians in their clinics getting treatment for things that required long waits in Canada."
so what? a lot of canadians do that in wisconsin and minnesota. that's what it's like along the border. not a big deal. by and large, most canadians do not do what you describe on a regular basis, so your argument has no weight. sorry.
"You have no clue. The health systems you love so much in Europe and Canada had to go back to letting private practices open and they are flurishhing."
i have no clue. private practices are "flourishing" in europe and canada. so, what, europe and canada now have systems not unlike ours? what are you trying to say? you sound like retarded glen beck.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:57am
Darlaloon,
You should really spend some time getting to know someone who is a true conservative... Talk to them on a personal basis and try to have an on going conversation which includes listening to their points.
Then you will not come off so dense with some of your responses to post by conservatives. It is painfully obvious that you to not know what we believe even after reading us and you have not spend any quality time with anyone who holds a different belief than you.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 12:59am
"You will no doubt be happy with a govt program since you will be on the receiving end of what I know willbe shit service and care while I will get the bill. And I will pay it because I will have no choice. But I will never let my family enter the place."
it's obvious that any american who grew up in wisconsin and minnesota, and who would proclaim to know the national sentiment of canadians with regards to public health care, would make such profoundly stupid observations.
seriously, how does one constructively engage this type of discussion with a straight face? as if only john (woe is me, john maasch) would get a bill for the poor, hopeless masses.....
why do you hate america, john? better yet, why do you hate yourself?
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 01:00am
We do give back to America....we "give" almost half our incomes...we, they take it...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:01am
" It is painfully obvious that you to not know what we believe even after reading us and you have not spend any quality time with anyone who holds a different belief than you."
i do spend quality time with people with different beliefs than me. however, all of these people believe in evolution.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 01:04am
KvH: ".....recruiting 24,000 new healthcare professionals to serve those areas."
But, the healthcare industry is the only growing field anyway.....even in the disaster that is California (article below). Why so much money for this sector which will grow IN ANY CASE due to retiring Boomers....... if NOT for political reasons? All of you out there that have lost your jobs or are losing them, remember where Magic's priority is, it ain't your jobs if you are not a "healthcare professional"!
====================================
State caught in avalanche of job losses
Gina Ferazzi / Los Angeles Times
February 28, 2009
Unemployment in California shot up to its highest level in nearly 26 years in January, leaving more than 1 in 10 workers without a job.
Figures released Friday show that 79,300 jobs were lost in the state last month, bringing the total number of unemployed to 1,863,000, or 10.1% of the workforce. That's the highest since the rate touched 10.4% in 1983.
Conditions are even worse in Los Angeles County, which saw its unemployment rate jump to 10.5% in January from 9.2% the month before......
The opposite is happening in healthcare, which added 8,400 workers last year as providers expanded to accommodate the graying baby boomer generation, experts say......
Posted by Happy at 03/01/2009 @ 01:05am
"we give almost half our incomes"
and you get nothing in return? nothing at all?
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 01:05am
I do agree with Lil about FDR inspiring the country.... He was great in many ways, except my grandparents did not like him and called him a socialist. After studying history and reading some history on FDR I can see that all his spending did not affect the recovery as his advisers stated and that my grandparents, who came from Germany, were correct about FDR, as I am about Obama....and I am sure my grandparents would agree.
JFK inspired the nation and so did Reagan.
Both inspired military service, peace through strength and both cut taxes to fire up the economy.
They all were leaders and will be long remembered by thoughtfully people on both sides of the aisle.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:09am
I believe I n evolution , too. I find it fits in well with Christianity.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:11am
Well,
Shame on me. I will never learn... Trying to have an ntelligent conversation with a doper is a waste.
And after re reading Darlaloons post here it is painfully obvious that the logic action of her stoned out brain has definatly shorted out.
So many brain cells wasted in poor Darlaloon... At least she has 30 or 40 left.
I am off to the hot tub.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:16am
Would most recently unemployed, and those soon TO BE unemployed, AA's rather be employed with upward mobility, but NO free medical care or would they rather sit at home enjoying all that free medical care, courtesy of Magic?
Given the track record of the goodies doled out in the last Great Society......it certainly is logical to think quite a few would prefer to have free medical care and jobs be damned!
=================================== From Breitbart.com:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG. 2b0b8bd405048e19f36fa896834ca058.1071&show_article=1
Obama sees 'tougher times' for African-Americans
Feb 28 06:04 PM US/Eastern
Acknowledging that "tough times for America often mean tougher times for African-Americans," US President Barack Obama on Saturday called for more local and national engagement by fellow blacks.
"You know that tough times for America often mean tougher times for African Americans. This recession has been no exception," Obama told the 10th annual "State of the Black Union" gathering, noting that the unemployment rate among African-Americans is five points higher than the national average....
In a video message, the first black US president told African-American politicians, thinkers and entertainers gathered in Los Angeles that his policies were "closing the gap between the nation we are and the nation we can be."
.....Obama also highlighted his audacious 3.55-trillion-dollar budget plan for 2010, which bristles with economic reforms and spending on healthcare, climate change and education in a bid to end America's worst economic crisis since the 1930s.....
Posted by Happy at 03/01/2009 @ 01:18am
Hello all. I'm back!!! I finally figured out how to get my preferred call sign back and just in time, too. I admit it feels good--like an old shoe or your favorite recliner.
Plain Bruce (aka dailycomfort)
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:19am
Welcome back ... Same old shit here only worse and more hopeless.
Hide you wealth, for they are coming for it.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:22am
canadians are very proud of what they have up there, and would never embrace an american system. not even under steven harper, would they.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 12:03am
So you say, Darla. However, the father of Canadian system believes differently. Please read the following:
Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits BY DAVID GRATZER
Posted 6/25/2008
As this presidential campaign continues, the candidates' comments about health care will continue to include stories of their own experiences and anecdotes of people across the country: the uninsured woman in Ohio, the diabetic in Detroit, the overworked doctor in Orlando, to name a few.
But no one will mention Claude Castonguay -- perhaps not surprising because this statesman isn't an American and hasn't held office in over three decades.
Castonguay's evolving view of Canadian health care, however, should weigh heavily on how the candidates think about the issue in this country.
Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec -- then the largest and most affluent in the country -- adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.
The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: "the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest; Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.
Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis."
(continued)
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:24am
"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice."
Castonguay advocates contracting out services to the private sector, going so far as suggesting that public hospitals rent space during off-hours to entrepreneurial doctors. He supports co-pays for patients who want to see physicians. Castonguay, the man who championed public health insurance in Canada, now urges for the legalization of private health insurance.
In America, these ideas may not sound shocking. But in Canada, where the private sector has been shunned for decades, these are extraordinary views, especially coming from Castonguay. It's as if John Maynard Keynes, resting on his British death bed in 1946, had declared that his faith in government interventionism was misplaced.
What would drive a man like Castonguay to reconsider his long-held beliefs? Try a health care system so overburdened that hundreds of thousands in need of medical attention wait for care, any care; a system where people in towns like Norwalk, Ontario, participate in lotteries to win appointments with the local family doctor.
Years ago, Canadians touted their health care system as the best in the world; today, Canadian health care stands in ruinous shape.
Sick with ovarian cancer, Sylvia de Vires, an Ontario woman afflicted with a 13-inch, fluid-filled tumor weighing 40 pounds, was unable to get timely care in Canada. She crossed the American border to Pontiac, Mich., where a surgeon removed the tumor, estimating she could not have lived longer than a few weeks more.
The Canadi
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:25am
The Canadian government pays for U.S. medical care in some circumstances, but it declined to do so in de Vires' case for a bureaucratically perfect, but inhumane, reason: She hadn't properly filled out a form. At death's door, de Vires should have done her paperwork better.
De Vires is far from unusual in seeking medical treatment in the U.S. Even Canadian government officials send patients across the border, increasingly looking to American medicine to deal with their overload of patients and chronic shortage of care.
Since the spring of 2006, Ontario's government has sent at least 164 patients to New York and Michigan for neurosurgery emergencies -- defined by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain." Other provinces have followed Ontario's example.
Canada isn't the only country facing a government health care crisis. Britain's system, once the postwar inspiration for many Western countries, is similarly plagued. Both countries trail the U.S. in five-year cancer survival rates, transplantation outcomes and other measures.
The problem is that government bureaucrats simply can't centrally plan their way to better health care.
A typical example: The Ministry of Health declared that British patients should get ER care within four hours. The result? At some hospitals, seriously ill patients are kept in ambulances for hours so as not to run afoul of the regulation; at other hospitals, patients are admitted to inappropriate wards.
Declarations can't solve staffing shortages and the other rationing of care that occurs in government-run systems.
Polls show Americans are desperately unhappy with their system and a government solution grows in popularity. Neither Sen. Obama nor Sen.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:26am
McCain is explicitly pushing for single-payer health care, as the Canadian system is known in America.
"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program," Obama said back in the 1990s. Last year, Obama told the New Yorker that "if you're starting from scratch, then a single-payer system probably makes sense."
As for the Republicans, simply criticizing Democratic health care proposals will not suffice -- it's not 1994 anymore. And, while McCain's health care proposals hold promise of putting families in charge of their health care and perhaps even taming costs, McCain, at least so far, doesn't seem terribly interested in discussing health care on the campaign trail.
However the candidates choose to proceed, Americans should know that one of the founding fathers of Canada's government-run health care system has turned against his own creation. If Claude Castonguay is abandoning ship, why should Americans bother climbing on board?
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:27am
While Darla is cheering the coming of socialized medicine, I have to wonder--how much does she pay in taxes on her little illegal enterprise?
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:47am
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 12:12am
I actually agree with much of what you wrote, but I would feel better if I knew that, with these statements,
"in order to avoid paying taxes...It's time to give back - to invest in America for the benefit Americans."
you were including Obama's own cabinet members.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:58am
She pays nothing would be my guess. I think she helps out in some sort of co op store and takes pit for medicine.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 02:03am
"While Darla is cheering the coming of socialized medicine, I have to wonder--how much does she pay in taxes on her little illegal enterprise?"
of course, only non-tax paying citizens prefer socialized medicine. that is why we have swiss bank accounts.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:15am
Pot for medicine.
Bruce, you should post this article every day here and on every post these clods come out with regarding health care by the Post Office.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 02:16am
"I think she helps out in some sort of co op store and takes pit for medicine."
majorities in 7 states, and multiple nations, feel otherwise. and many more are wondering the same thing. billions in annual revenue. and conservatives don't like this (and even ridicule it), because?
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:19am
plainbruce, just because one man has an opinion about something, doesn't mean his entire country feels the same. and healthcare really is more important than one man's opinion. even if he is an "imporant" man.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:21am
of course, only non-tax paying citizens prefer socialized medicine. that is why we have swiss bank accounts.
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:15am
That's not the point and you know it. I imagine you simply don't want to admit that you are part of the problem and exemplify what conservatives are fighting.
That is, unless you are doing your "patriotic" duty by paying your taxes and abiding by the law in other matters. If that is the case, then I take it back.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 02:38am
"That's not the point and you know it. I imagine you simply don't want to admit that you are part of the problem and exemplify what conservatives are fighting."
actually, your comrade-in-arms, jomamma, has been advocating a steep reduction in taxes, which would mean a reduction in the quality of public health.
so, that is the point, actually. i don't know what sort of universe you live in, but taxes pay for things like health care (in case you missed the memo).
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:55am
Darlaloon,
People have Swiss accounts because they have already paid in so God Damned much that they feel they are getting screwed.... And they are.
It doesn't matter if you think they are getting screwed or not but it does matter if those who worked hard to get where they are feel that way. I know you have no clue as to what that feels like, but the anger is there and it is about to get worse.
The new bill raises taxes on those higher groups and elimnates tax itemizations and deductions, which raises effective tax rates to 50%..
This will kill off incentive to earn more... if one is not going to be able to keep it or use it as they wish.
This is the group that creates the jobs we need... not Washington
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 03:04am
but taxes pay for things like health care (in case you missed the memo).
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009 @ 02:55am
I am well aware of the purpose of taxes. Jomamma has it right.
However, you apparently missed the question that was directed at you. How much do YOU pay in taxes on your illegal enterprise? My guess is zero. That makes you a veritable member of the John Edwards Tax-Payers Society in my book. You rail against the "earners" in society--the ones that have to do the heavy lifting in paying for those services that you would enjoy--because they want tax relief from the government's vice-grip on their wallets. Yet, in your smoke-filled world, you feel no responsibility to contribute to those very services that you would take advantage of. That's the point and the problem.
BTW, with respect to lower taxes, even Obama himself conceded during the campaign that lower taxes leads to INCREASED revenue to the government. Despite that admission, what's he doing with taxes now?
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 03:31am
except my grandparents did not like him and called him a socialist.-----Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:09am
You mean you're into your THIRD generation of this stuff????!?!?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 07:47am
BTW....MAASCH is right.
Ms vanden Heuvel won't be going to one of the "Federal Hospitals".
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 09:12am
You should really spend some time getting to know someone who is a true conservative... Talk to them on a personal basis and try to have an on going conversation which includes listening to their points.
Then you will not come off so dense with some of your responses to post by conservatives. It is painfully obvious that you to not know what we believe even after reading us and you have not spend any quality time with anyone who holds a different belief than you.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 12:59am
Yourjomamma,
It would be appropriate at this time to look in the mirror. Please, take a bit of your own advice in the other direction.
Posted by erazma at 03/01/2009 @ 09:15am
People have Swiss accounts because they have already paid in so God Damned much that they feel they are getting screwed.... And they are.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 03:04am
What people are not talking about is how close Switzerland came to collapsing. After Iceland, no other country has a greater share of its GDP dependent on banking. Remember what happened to huge production companies, Ford, GM and GE, when their finance arms took over for the production sectors of their businesses as the generators of profit. When the securitized paper market crashed, these once strong industrial production companies crashed with them. Well, on a much larger scale, that's what is happenning to Switzerland.
Banking had become the main engine of profit generation as the country's industrial production shrank. International banking is now collapsing, so a country that lives by the bank, will die by the bank.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 10:48am
People have Swiss accounts because they have already paid in so God Damned much that they feel they are getting screwed.... And they are.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 03:04am
What's really scary is that Switzerland is said to be holding over a third of the world's private bank deposits. Just this week, Switzerland, seeing its yields rising to dangerous levels, was forced to engage in currency swaps with the ECB. A collapse of the Swiss banking system, once the safest place in the world to deposit money, will spell big trouble. If one believes in the domino theory, a Swiss banking collapse is going to be one bigass domino to fall. The falling of smaller dominos, like Argentina, Iceland, Hungrey, and Lituania, are, or may be, a foregone conclusion.
ONE CANCEROUS PROBLEM THE SWISS BANKING SYSTEM HAS IS PHIL GRAMM. SENATOR GRAMM, AS YOU REMEMBER, HAD THE GLASS-STEAGALL ACT REPEALED WHILE HIS WIFE SAT ON THE BOARD OF ENRON, HE OPENED THE DOORS OF US BANKS SO THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO ENGAGE IN RISKY DERIVATIVE PRODUCTS, LIKE "ENHANCED YIELD" MONEY MARKET SIVS AND CDOS. SEVENTY-PERCENT OF THOSE CDOS WERE EXPORTED ABROAD, WHERE GRAMM, NOW THE VICE CHAIRMAN OF UBS, COULD USE THEM TO DESTROY HIS OWN SWISS BANK.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 10:49am
Not so fast! If you want medicos to emulate the military's contribution to national service, why suggest increasing "incentives" for physicians? Aside from patriotism, major incentives that persuade citizens to performing national service with the military include unemployment, low pay, no health civilian healthcare. On the other hand, physicians are already among highest paid professionals. That's only for starters. When the country faces danger abroad, military service is enhanced through selective service laws. You may expect to be sent to some of the most dangerous spots on Earth involuntarily. But asking medicos to voluntarily (let alone involuntarily) contribute to the national welfare during bad times like these, by re-locating where they may be most needed, might offend many? Even if they received due gratitude, medals, plaques and parades of a grateful nation? Or, making national service more of a level playing field, increase the military's incentives out of deepest respect for its patriotic sacrifices.
Posted by HiRoller at 03/01/2009 @ 10:51am
Swiss banks, like all other banks in Europe are in danger due in part to the world recession PLUS... They have dug themselves a hole with Eastern Europe which has no chance to pay back their loans.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 11:33am
"Instead of building new clinics every 100 yards and staffing them with herd of govt unionsed workers.."-JOM the traitor
WOW! You really got into the reality of the program here didn't you! Man, this must be like those $900 American made ladders you buy, somewhere in your fantasy world of hate.
Any mention of using unions in this program? I missed that, but, you being omniscient and all, probably have a better idea than I.
What exactly as a christian (under attack), is it about attempting to give basic health care to those that lack it that riles you so? Is it that by doing this we may actually decrease the final cost of healthcare to all? Is that what scares you?
Or is it just that govt that works scares you, being from the group that has not a clue how to run a govt?
["The American Academy of Family Physicians found that total medical expenses for health center patients were 41 percent lower compared to patients seen elsewhere, okay?" Sen. Sanders later told me. "On average, Medicaid patients seen at health centers have total medical expenses per year that are almost $1,000 less than Medicaid patients who use other providers -- due to inappropriate emergency room use and unnecessary hospital admissions." ]
Roughly 50% of small businesses fail in the first five years. I guess we should stop trying to open new ones, right John? Just like about 50% of hetero sexual marriages fail, so we should stop that too. Isn't that your logic here?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 11:34am
I have asked this question about half a dozen times, as have others here, and gotten no response.
Why were the cons perfectly willing to spend $1,000,000,000,000 in Iraq (final cost may be 3 times that!!!), send hundreds of thousands of men and women into harms way, prop up a foreign government for a decade, pay dictators in the 'Stans for air bases, ignore vast corruption, pay for it at cost-plus, and do it all OFF BUDGET...
but they do not want to spend any money on their neighbors, send any doctors to Piyush Jindals state or make any attempt to save US industrial might?
(can I cheat and give you the answer?
....
....
fear, not compassion)
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 11:42am
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009
Sounds like that Canadaian wants to go to a quasi govt/private system....
something like a single payer system proposed by many around here. Private healthcare facilities paid by one place, instead of paid by 300 different insurers with 300 different systems, requirements, codes and 28 % admin overhead. With an adjunct private system that one could buy into if one desired, and had the income.
He wants to look at what works in other places and then modify the current system. Gasp! Sounds Marxist!
the status quo works (kind of), changing is bad! Isn't that a part of conservatism?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 11:52am
"That makes you a veritable member of the John Edwards Tax-Payers Society in my book"
Funny how the cons can always find a dem that didn't pay, but they forget to mention the latest $750,000,000 fine paid by Phil Gramms company, and the thousands of tax cheats he may have helped. I don't doubt that many of the names that will come out will be dems, but come on you guys! a little honesty would sure go a long ways.
Phil (what recession?) Gramms company helped people avoid paying $300,000,000 in taxes. That is money YOU had to cover, or had to be borrowed from (gasp!) a communist country. That just pales in comparison to even Tom (Archer Daschle Midland lobby boy) Daschles tax evasion.
Again, like whining about helping your neighbor while you spend like a "drunken democrat" in Iraq.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 11:59am
hey crab,
looks like a lot of these so-called conservatives took the hypocritical oath.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 12:23pm
Posted by darladoon at 03/01/2009
reward behavior which rewards the collective first, and the individual second.
Posted by The Borg at 04/01/2384
"Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. We wish to improve ourselves. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours."
"Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service us."
Posted by sntauri at 03/01/2009 @ 12:27pm
I have asked this question about half a dozen times, as have others here, and gotten no response. Why were the cons perfectly willing to spend $1,000,000,000,000 in Iraq (final cost may be 3 times that!!!), send hundreds of thousands of men and women into harms way, prop up a foreign government for a decade, pay dictators in the 'Stans for air bases, ignore vast corruption, pay for it at cost-plus, and do it all OFF BUDGET... but they do not want to spend any money on their neighbors, send any doctors to Piyush Jindals state or make any attempt to save US industrial might? (can I cheat and give you the answer? .... .... fear, not compassion) Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 11:42am
Au Contraire…I have answered many times. The war was constitutional, the health care spending is not
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 12:49pm
anti,
That is not the answer they want to hea..and will not hear anything else...just keep asking the mundane question endlessly
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 2:00pm
"in order to avoid paying taxes...It's time to give back - to invest in America for the benefit Americans."
you were including Obama's own cabinet members.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 01:58am | ignore this person | warn this person
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Acutally Bruce - what I said was this...
"...only to take all of the profits and send them to offshore banks in order to avoid paying taxes..."
As to who I was including, there are MANY examples, especially in corporate America, but we don't have to look that far, do we...
.
People have Swiss accounts because they have already paid in so God Damned much that they feel they are getting screwed....
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 03:04am | ignore this person | warn this person
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I know you want to single out Obama's appointee's, but are you going to a blind eye to those who are perfectly willing to screw the country because they've told themselves the lies so often that they've convinced themselves their behavior is vindicated?
If so, just imagine your outrage if one of those Obama appointees...
...had used John's words as an excuse.
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 3:46pm
"Just through reducing expenses by $1,000 per Medicaid patient, this would save the health care system $17 billion, more than twice the amount Sen. Sanders and Rep. Clyburn propose spending on the health centers."
Absolute nonsense. The so-called 17 billion in savings if ever realized would be a drop in the bucket to the Medicare/Medicaid unfunded debt of more than 40 Trillion.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 4:23pm
But is health care really a basic human right? Does an individual have a right to health care? Let's say categorically that health care is not a right. Why? Because a right to medical care imposes an obligation on a physician to provide a service to anyone and everyone with whom he or she has not even had an established professional relationship. What about the indigent? The fact is that still today, as through every era of medical history, indigent patients have been taken care of by physicians with dignity and compassion in the name of genuine charity, pro bono
Natural rights embody the concept of individual autonomy and negative rights that are inalienable and inherent to human beings. Natural rights (e.g., life, liberty, the owning and disposing of property, and the pursuit of health, occupation --- and happiness), like human rights, can be exercised by all individuals simultaneously without infringing and trampling on the rights of others (i.e., negative rights concept). When governments transcend these rights with welfare rights, entitlements, and redistribution of wealth schemes --- in the name of compassion, utilitarianism, or some greater common good --- it squarely infringes upon the autonomy and basic rights of individuals and corrupts the negative concept of the law. Health care is not a right, just as there are no rights to shelter (housing), clothing, food, or a paid vacation to Acapulco or Miami Beach. In essence, no individual is entitled to the services or the fruits of another's labor without just compensation. Physicians should be free to offer their services free of government coercion and, at least in theory, on whatever terms he or she chooses.
http://www.haciendapub.com/article22.html
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 4:28pm
What was it that idiot President that the leftist extremist claim to admire so much said?
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
~~~ Thomas Jefferson ~~~
How lame was that guy?
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/01/2009 @ 4:30pm
.had used John's words as an excuse.
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 3:46pm
I suggest you learn the difference between the word "excuse" and explanation....I explained(explanation) why so many(think Pelosi, Feinstein, Kennendy) have kept their wealth a long, long way from progressives like you..
and you offer a demand they are not "givig back", after ignoring how much they hav already"given..(excuse) to your types.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 4:38pm
The Political Fallacy that Medical Care is a Right
by: Robert Sade, M.D.
Reprinted with permission, NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, December 2, 1971
ABSTRACT From man's primary right - the right to his own life - derive all others, including the rights to select and pursue his own values, and to dispose of these values, once gained, without coercion. The choice of the conditions under which a physician's services are rendered belongs to the physician as a consequence of his right to support his own life.
If medical care, which includes physician's services, is considered the right of the patient, that right should properly be protected by government law. Since the ultimate authority of all law is force of arms, the physician's professional judgment - that is, his mind - is controlled through threat of violence by the state. Force is the antithesis of mind, and man cannot survive qua man without the free use of his mind. Thus, since the concept of medical care as the right of the patient entails the use or threat of violence against physicians, that concept is anti-mind - therefore, anti-life, and, therefore, immoral.
The concept of medical care as the patient's right is immoral because it denies the most fundamental of all rights, that of a man to his own life and the freedom of action to support it. Medical care is neither a right nor a privilege: it is a service that is provided by doctors and others to people who wish to purchase it. It is the provision of this service that a doctor depends upon for his livelihood, and is his means of supporting his own life
continued
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 4:39pm
If the right to health care belongs to the patient, he starts out owning the services of a doctor without the necessity of either earning them or receiving them as a gift from the only man who has the right to give them: the doctor himself. In the narrative above substitute "doctor" for "baker" and "medical service" for "bread." American medi- cine is now at the point in the story where the state has proclaimed the non-existent "right" to medical care as a fact of public policy, and has begun to pass the laws to enforce it. The doctor finds himself less and less his own master and more and more controlled by forces outside of his own judgment.
http://www.aapsonline.org/brochures/sademcr.htm
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 4:41pm
"National Health Service Corps (NHSC) to $300 million to provide incentives - including debt forgiveness and grants - for physicians and dentists, medical and dental students, to practice in underserved areas."
This statement is not true. NHSC does not forgive the entire loan debt. They will only repay up to $50k for 2 years of service. Not an incentive by any means if you have medical school loans totaling more than $275K. Nor do they repay any loans made by private foundations or individuals (relatives).
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 4:44pm
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/01/2009 @ 4:30pm
RIO tell me EXACTLY what writing of Jefferson that is from?
(BTW, he can't.)
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 4:49pm
RIO tell me EXACTLY what writing of Jefferson that is from?
(BTW, he can't.)
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 4:49pm
Actually, that was a quote by Pastor/Dr. Adrian Rogers (1931-2005)
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 5:33pm
Watching ABC's "This Week" this morning, it's become painfully apparent why the left is so enamored with the so-called "Fairness Doctrine." On issue after issue raised during the "Roundtable" session by George Stephanapoulis, Rove and Will rhetorically pummeled Vanden Heuvel and Greenberg at every turn. While the latter put forth nothing but assertions and slogans with no supporting examples, Rove and Will countered with facts that exposed the deceptive facade that Vanden Heuvel and Greenberg were trying so hard to maintain.
A perfect example was the Obama "Stimulus" Plan. In defense of it, both Vanden Heuvel and Greenberg proclaimed the usual leftist mantra of the "disastrous the 8 years of Bush," how "elections have consequences" (which Vanden Heuvel and her ilk furiously and hypocritically denied, when Bush was in power, dishonestly claiming that he "stole" the 2000 and 2004 elections), and how the people "voted for this type of change." Rove quickly and deftly responded saying how the Republicans evaluated their stimulus plan with the same econometric plan used to evaluate the Obama Plan. To the embarrassment of Greenberg and Vanden Heuvel, the result showed how the Republican plan produced 50% more employment for half the cost. Rove also correctly pointed out how Obama had campaigned on taxing the bottom 95% of Americans only to do just the opposite. Neither Vanden Heuvel nor Greenberg said anything substantive in response, meaning that Rove was right.
So it's obvious that the left needs a Fairness Doctrine because they know it would effectively eliminate conservative radio, leaving nothing to counter leftist dogma. Consequently, with effectively no opponents leftist like Greenberg and Vanden Heuvel could start winning arguments again!
Posted by skeetjr at 03/01/2009 @ 6:45pm
I suggest you learn the difference between the word "excuse" and explanation....
....I explained(explanation) why so many(think Pelosi, Feinstein, Kennendy) have kept their wealth a long, long way from progressives like you..
you offer a demand they are not "givig back"...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 4:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
I suggest you look up the word "demand"...because I 'demanded' nothing at all, nor did KVH, nor did Obama.
while you're at it, look up the word 'reality'...because in this 'reality' you never 'exlained' anything at all about Pelosi, Feinstein, and Kennedy 'keeping their wealth a long, long way from progressives'. You asked whether they would take their kids to the same clinics we will use, as if that's somehow germain to anything. Where will George and Laura take the twins? where will cindy and John go?Your kids, and mine, will NEVER get the same quality of medical care that they get...RIGHT NOW! Hello?
Finally John, try looking up the word 'rationalize'....because, when the rest of the country is talking about 'service to this country', and you respond with ...
.
Hide you wealth, for they are coming for it.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 01:22am | ignore this person | warn this person
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...that's EXACTLY what you're doing.
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 6:54pm
This statement is not true. NHSC does not forgive the entire loan debt. They will only repay up to $50k for 2 years of service. Not an incentive by any means...
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 4:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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First, let's see if that passes to common sense test...
$50,ooo is NOT an incentive.
Hmmmm...for the average american, that's quite a bit more than one years pay. Even for someone with an advanced degree, it's around 3/4 (for men) to 1 year (for woment) pay.
Sounds like an incentive to me.
Not to mention that, the program pays up to another $70,000 for 2 more years of service.
.
Helping underserved areas get better healthcare sounds like a good thing to me.
I realize offering $50K - $120K won't be an incentive for many people - some people are just plain greedy - but then...
...common sense says those people probably wouldn't be willing to serve for any amount of money.
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 7:13pm
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 3:46pm
There are several things to respond to in this and your subsequent posts.
First, as an honest, hard-working, tax-paying American citizen, I have no sympathy or patience for people who are guilty of tax evasion. If they think taxes are too high, then there are avenues to fight for change. I understand the position, though, that once more than 50% of citizens are no longer paying to support the services they take advantage of (see Darladoon), it leaves the "earners" in this country with little alternative other than to bend over and take it or find (ahem) creative ways to save their earnings.
Just to needle the liberals a little bit, one could make the argument that those who put their wealth out of the reach of the US government are simply using the same tactic as those who smoke pot or use other drugs. It is their own form of protest against a law that they believe is wrong and should be changed. If it's a tactic that's acceptable for the liberal pot-heads on this site, then it should be OK for other Americans, too.
Oops. The kids are in from playing in the snow. I'll come back later.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 7:14pm
KVH didn't mention the electronic medical records project to be managed by the feds. Sounded good at first, all doctors would have access when needed. How is everyone going to feel when some worthless government official loses his laptop with a tera-byte drive with millions of medical records on it. Remember it happened with Social Security records. I really don' trust the federal government to do much of anything right except maybe the military and post office.
Posted by pyeatte at 03/01/2009 @ 7:23pm
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE DESTROYS ALL INCENTIVE FOR RESEARCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Canadians make stem cell breakthrough
ANNE MCILROY Globe and Mail Update March 1, 2009 at 1:01 PM EST
TORONTO -- Canadian researchers have discovered a new way to turn skin cells into stem cells.
Their work removes two huge barriers to using stem cells, which have an endless capacity for self-renewal, in new medical therapies for people with spinal cord injuries or diseases like diabetes or Parkinson's.
"We hope these stem cells will form the basis for treatment of many diseases and conditions that are currently considered incurable," says Dr. Andras Nagy, of Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital. He is the lead author of a ground-breaking paper published online Sunday by the journal Nature.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 7:41pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 7:41pm
Thanks for giving us more ammo against destroying embryos for research.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 7:55pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 7:41pm
I'm hoping you guys learn a way to clone Evangeline Lilly or Elisha Cuthbert!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 8:00pm
First, as an honest, hard-working, tax-paying American citizen, I have no sympathy or patience for people who are guilty of tax evasion.-----Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 7:14pm
So you'd never vote for....
Sarah Palin?
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 8:02pm
So you'd never vote for....
Sarah Palin?
Posted by Mask at 03/01/2009 @ 8:02pm
Palin has never been found guilty of tax evasion. She had a ruling that said that she owed taxes and she paid them. But there is no clear law for Alaska on the supposed violation
"The Palins at the time released a review by a Washington, D.C., attorney who said state law allows the children's travel expenses to be reimbursed and not taxed when they conduct official state business.
But now those expense payments have come under question following Petumenos' finding that some of the trips did not meet the definition of official state business.
But Van Flein said he believed Palin's reimbursement to the state of travel expenses would correct any federal tax problems she might face. He also noted that Palin followed the advice she received from the state that such expenses are not considered taxable. However, tax experts said in October that incorrect state government advice would not trump IRS regulations.
The ethics complaint related to her children's expenses was filed after The AP reported that Palin charged the state for her daughters to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense reports to specify that they were on official business.
Alaska law does not specifically address expenses for a governor's children. The law allows for payment of expenses for anyone conducting official state business, but Petumenos concluded in his review that state rules don't clearly define what family trips should be paid by the state.
He has asked the attorney general to develop clearer rules outlining when the state should pay for the travel of a governor's family.
http://tinyurl.com/dasp2k
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 8:18pm
More for you Mask-
Despite it all, Palin spends far less than her predecessors
"Gov. Sarah Palin, under scrutiny for charging the state for expenses while living in her Wasilla home, is actually living much more inexpensively than her two immediate predecessors, according to an analysis provided Monday by her staff.
Officials compared Palin's expenses for items including travel, lodging, and meals to that of former Govs. Frank Murkowski and Tony Knowles. They said she's spent about $900,000 less in her first two years than Murkowski did his last two years.
Her expenses were also lower than for Knowles his last two years, though the difference was not as dramatic
http://us.mg3.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 8:28pm
And Mask,
Gov Palin is still popular in Alaska A new poll by Alaska pollster David Dittman of Dittman Resarch shows that Gov. Palin still enjoys plenty of support from those who live in Anchorage. By a margin of 56% to 37%, Anchorage residents say that she should be given another term
http://tinyurl.com/cpqlom
Feb 28, 2009 New CNN poll shows Gov Palin the Republican frontrunner
Is Alaska Governor Sarah Palin really the frontrunner choice of the GOP to run for the presidency in 2012? According to a new poll she is. But not by much.
The person Republicans think most able to retake the White House? Sarah Palin. Alaska Governor Sarah Palin polled 29% of the Republicans surveyed. She scored highest among women voters. Even Ed Rollins, CNN contributor and Republican political strategist for Mike Huckabee's bid for the 2008 presidency, said just after Jindal's speech, "It was a good night for Sarah Palin."
Former Arkansas Governor and now Fox News talk show host Mike Huckabee polled the second highest with 26%. Huckabee scored highest among male voters.
http://tinyurl.com/b5tv5h
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 8:48pm
Lil,
Many(limosine liberals and Hollywood) über wealthy have their assets in a variety of shelters and safe zones where the money can grow before taxes.
Any profit I earn from an off shore legal company will pay taxes, according to law, when that money us brought into the US.
Many people have already paid taxes on some of that income that is moved off shore. There it can grow b4 your types get their hands on it and piss it away.
And yes, I can get the same private care John, Nancy, Teddy, and Obama have. The big difference is I pay for mine.. And theirs .... And with your hearts desire, govt health care, none of these govt folks will visit your postal clinic. And neither will I. We will visit the "spa" clinic.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 8:48pm
Helping underserved areas get better healthcare sounds like a good thing to me.
I realize offering $50K - $120K won't be an incentive for many people - some people are just plain greedy - but then...
...common sense says those people probably wouldn't be willing to serve for any amount of money.
Posted by Lillian at 03/01/2009 @ 7:13pm
Lillian, this is not about greed! These people give up a good portion of their lives to advance the causes of medicine.
If you work out the details, the pawltry pay (stipend) the govt offers, come out around $7 an hour. And they must carry their own malpratice insurance because the NHSC malpractice package is very limited in their protections. How are they suppose to survive?
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 9:24pm
"First, let's see if that passes to common sense test...
$50,ooo is NOT an incentive.
Hmmmm...for the average american, that's quite a bit more than one years pay. Even for someone with an advanced degree, it's around 3/4 (for men) to 1 year (for woment) pay.
Sounds like an incentive to me.
Not to mention that, the program pays up to another $70,000 for 2 more years of service."
That depends. There's no question that it's an incentive, but is it enough of one? Keep in mind, these physicians are expected to go to underserved (i.e. typically rural and in the middle of nowhere) areas to receive less reimbursement than their urban or suburban counterparts. Physicians have to decide for themselves if the incentive is worth the sacrifice in the long run.
.
"Helping underserved areas get better healthcare sounds like a good thing to me.
I realize offering $50K - $120K won't be an incentive for many people - some people are just plain greedy - but then...
...common sense says those people probably wouldn't be willing to serve for any amount of money."
Now you're starting to sound like the typical narrow-minded liberal. As I've intimated above, there are a myriad of reasons for physicians to serve in places other than the underserved areas--location, family, recreation, you name it. That doesn't make them greedy. It means they have different priorities than you. Further, you seem to assume that simply because the government has declared one area "underserved," that means other areas are undeserving of a doctor. There are many urban and suburban areas that could be considered "underserved" simply because there are long waits to see the doctor. Is it wrong or greedy for the physician to practice in those areas?
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 9:43pm
Building the Laura Bush Hospital in Iraq , or half building it, with my money is constitutional, but building a clinic in rural Mississippi isn't?
the feds should set moral policy by funding abstinence programs, but not by supplying a way to provide physicians to the less fortunate among us?
Dammit! I just wish there was a way to kill some Islamo fascist while doing this, then the cons would be on it like ugly on Phred Thompson.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:16pm
"Physicians have to decide for themselves if the incentive is worth the sacrifice in the long run. "
I know this may be hard to believe for you guys, but some doctors become doctors to help people, not just make a good living. Giving them a way to clear some debt at the beginning of their career would enable them to do what they may not be able to do without the 50k.
But I don't expect some of you to understand a concept outside of profit motivation.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:23pm
larry,
how can you defend ms. palin?
she is an ignorant twit.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 10:26pm
Just think, right now some Islamo Fascist could be getting care in a clinic you guys paid for in Iraq, while a young xtian girl in west Virginia can't get a OBGYN visit because her parents can't afford it.
mmm, mmm, mmm. It makes me swell with pride.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:29pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/01/2009 @ 10:26pm
Shiny bauble.
With Family Values and a pride of country so great she speaks at anti-America rallies.
Part of that oath you wrote of.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:32pm
Sarah Palin is still popular in a state that almost elected a felon to serve in the Senate.
high praise indeed.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:35pm
$50k for doctors?
That what my uncle paid the woman just to fill out federal paper work requirements in his office..he had 3 people just for paper work...
He used to visit the elderly in the nursing homes for free during his career since he spoke German and most of the patients in his area did, too...but had to stop seeing them....govt hacks protested the lack of paperwork and procedures were not documented and categorised for the govt records even tho it was free. The people were sad but the govt hack was happy...a job well done for sure.
He eventually gave up the gift..thanks to the govt beurocrats and their bullshit. He retired a few yerars ago and his predictions of what would happen with Medicare/Medicaid was spot on and now with govt health care he is glad he is now fishing...
I am sure it will get better when the govt takes over the entire medical system.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 11:20pm
"I know this may be hard to believe for you guys, but some doctors become doctors to help people, not just make a good living."
Actually, I would surmise that most of them do. That doesn't mean that they don't want to be reimbursed appropriately for their services. Offer pay equivalent to a postal worker and I imagine you would have a severe physician shortage in a matter of days regardless of altruism.
"Giving them a way to clear some debt at the beginning of their career would enable them to do what they may not be able to do without the 50k."
Such as?
"But I don't expect some of you to understand a concept outside of profit motivation."
And I don't expect that you read my previous post in its entirety in which I explained that doctors, like anyone else, consider many other factors when determining where to practice.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:23pm
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 11:29pm
"Giving them a way to clear some debt at the beginning of their career would enable them to do what they may not be able to do without the 50k."
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:23pm
Here's a reason why doctors don't gravitate to programs like NHSC. Since its inception 35 years ago, only 27K physicians had signed up for the program out of 1.6 million.
1) They don't pay at the beginning of a 2-year tour, they pay on the back end several months later. It's not automatic. You have to fill out an application to apply for the partial repayment plan 60 days (or 120 days) before your tour is up. And you better pray to God that they don't find fault with your work or the process is much slower.
2) This is deliberate in order to try and get you to re-up for another 2 years. They'll up the ante, but you won't see a reduction in your student loans until after your next tour is up. And they continually do that. They want as much of your hard-earned talent as they can get for almost nothing.
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 11:35pm
"They want as much of your hard-earned talent as they can get for almost nothing.
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 11:35pm"
Now where did I hear that before...from my govt?
Naw...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 11:37pm
Here's a reason why doctors don't gravitate to programs like NHSC. Since its inception 35 years ago, only 27K physicians had signed up for the program out of 1.6 million.
1) They don't pay at the beginning of a 2-year tour, they pay on the back end several months later. It's not automatic. You have to fill out an application to apply for the partial repayment plan 60 days (or 120 days) before your tour is up. And you better pray to God that they don't find fault with your work or the process is much slower.
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 11:35pm
If true, I'm shocked 27k (of 1.6 million) doctors went for it! Most likely, those 27k had other motives....chasing some Hot Lips or Hawkeyes....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 03/01/2009 @ 11:42pm
Sarah Palin is still popular in a state that almost elected a felon to serve in the Senate.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:35pm
You've got to be kidding me. Have you forgotten about the democrat criminals that were elected in various public positions? Weren't you the one that was criticizing me for being partisan in my statements? Et tu, Crabe?
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 11:43pm
Sarah Palin is still popular in a state that almost elected a felon to serve in the Senate.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2009 @ 10:35pm
Yeah...like Kennedy?
At least she didn't drive off a bridge drunk and kill some young guy she was..ah, discussing liberal programs with...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 11:47pm
I wonder what Crab and Lillian think about those physicians who do sign up with the NHSC program and then leave after their 2 years are up. Are they then considered greedy, profit-driven bastards like the rest of us who just took the money and ran?
The thing that bothers me about Crab and Lillian is that, although they don't come out and say it, I detect an undercurrent of hostility in their attitudes toward physicians. If a doctor does not join the NHSC or work for less than market value, then he must be a greedy jerk. I'm not sure where exactly that attitude comes from. My guess would be that its because they actually believe health care is a right. It's a truly frightening thought that people that think that way could be (and probably already are) in charge of health care. They don't realize that they are 'thisclose' to saying government should determine where physicians can practice based solely upon "need" as their omniscient and omnipotent government determines it. After all, if it is the citizens' "right," and government controls those rights, then it would be within government's purview to determine how those rights are provided.
That would bring us back to Antisocialist's earlier post about the "right" to health care.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:09am
If true, I'm shocked 27k (of 1.6 million) doctors went for it! Most likely, those 27k had other motives....chasing some Hot Lips or Hawkeyes....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 03/01/2009 @ 11:42pm
According to my calculations, that would mean we have 1.573 million greedy, profit-driven bastard physicians currently practicing in this country.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:14am
Posted by crabwalk: Sarah Palin is still popular in a state that almost elected a felon to serve in the Senate. high praise indeed.
Uh, is that better than Chicago...I think your guy is from Chicago...
Posted by pyeatte at 03/02/2009 @ 12:16am
....greedy, profit-driven bastard physicians currently practicing in this country.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:14am
Don't recall if dailycomfort was around when I announced my older son was accepted into his second choice for med school (starts late summer).....he's more or less, a lib but never in the loony sense.....I asked him last week, in light of the proposed beginning of UHC proposed by Magic, if he was for it....."NO!"....Whew!....there is hope yet!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 12:25am
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:09am
I am envisioining the Nurse Rachet School of Govt Approved Treatments run by these types....unionised , of course.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 12:28am
).....he's more or less, a lib but never in the loony sense.....I asked him last week, in light of the proposed beginning of UHC proposed by Magic, if he was for it....."NO!"....Whew!....there is hope yet!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 12:25am
Wait until he is finally out of debt, has his practice opened after 10 years of school and residency....has his over head figured out and sets his price accordingly(after all, it is still a business and must meet costs, payroll, ect)...and then is told he must accept what the govt figures his service is worth and what they will pay regardless of the cost...
kinda like a conservative who becomes so after being robbed and mugged on the way to the tax office...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 12:33am
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 12:25am
I missed that announcement. Congratulations to your son (and you)! It is a wonderfully rewarding path that he has chosen. Best of luck to him.
And don't forget to send him food!
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:55am
Antisocialist...how is health-care spending unconstitutional?
Posted by Thrawn at 03/02/2009 @ 12:58am
The thing that bothers me about Crab and Lillian is that, although they don't come out and say it, I detect an undercurrent of hostility in their attitudes toward physicians.-PB
bizarre rationalization.
"only" 27,000 dcotors used the program. That is a good thing. That is 27,000 that may not have gone where they were needed. How many kids signed up to go fight in Iraq out of the number that reach 18? It is tiny, do you want to defund the Army?
Electing felons: As you guys have taught us over the years, we expect the lazy uneducated and over educated elites with little morals to elect the occasional crook, but the moral xtian republicans have strong values and they stick to them. Like being a member of the party of Family Values and running for VP with a pregnant teen daughter, normally this would be called out, but no, it is "off limits" now.
constitutionality: I am supposed to accept your interpretation when you are all for your govt spying illegally on it's citizens, detaining them for years and kidnapping Canadians?
Fear vs compassion.
BOO!
BTW, time for you guys to start adopting some of foster children. Take them in, get them off govt support. Bruce, how many can I sign you up for? About 80,000 need good moral homes. Once we clear up that backlog we can talk about ending abortion on demand.
Oh, wait, that would mean you would have to believe what you write about . Never mind.
John, look to Asia. Remember that advice? How does Japan do it? Doesn't china have basic care, as poor as it may be, along with private systems? S. Korea is planning on opening new mental health care clinics to stem the rash of economy related suicides. Hong Kong is doing something similar.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/02/2009 @ 07:29am
[Hong Kong started special hot lines in October for people suffering from the financial crisis, and it opened depression clinics in some public hospitals this month.
"The clinics were opened in expectation of more people suffering depression because of the crisis," said William Chui, education director at the Society of Hospital Pharmacists. "The government has also ordered more anti-depression drugs."]-IHT online.
Look to Asia
Posted by crabwalk at 03/02/2009 @ 07:33am
I hear Achmed Chalibi ia available to run new govt programs. Would ya'll feel better if we handed MORE of your money over to him? You asked no questions when he took millions upon millions of your tax money.
socialism seems to be good enough for the Islamo fascists, but not good enough for your neighbors. I bet they bless you every day for the free care you supply them.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/02/2009 @ 07:37am
Crab,
China and Hpng Kong in particular have no taxes, no FICA, no state income t ax, no Medicare, prpoerty tax,mediCal, no AMT and on and on ......they to have a corporate tax.
Let's look to Asia
You are starting to get of...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 08:30am
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 08:30am
?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/02/2009 @ 09:37am
crab,
don't you understand?
god gave you those bootstraps to pull on in case you have a heart attack.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 09:41am
Has anyone noticed that there are more right wingnut lurkers blogging on the Nation lately than Liberals?
Maybe the pay scale for posted bullshit on liberal blogs is at a premium from the RNC.
Or they are just so bereft of ideas that they have become like vampires sucking new blood from the living vibrant politics of the left. Apparently they are even willing to risk the light of day in order to feed..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 10:34am
The smell of frantic desperation in their posts is overwhelming. Someone open a window and perhaps the fresh air will put them off guard long enough to drive a stake through them..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 10:41am
The smell of frantic desperation in their posts is overwhelming. Someone open a window and perhaps the fresh air will put them off guard long enough to drive a stake through them..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 10:41am
It's so refreshing to see leftists finally display their zeal to see one party rule in this country.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/02/2009 @ 10:43am
Sorry Crab...
The last word of last post to you should read "it" instead of , of.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 11:22am
It's so refreshing to see leftists finally display their zeal to see one party rule in this country.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/02/2009 @ 10:43am
Poor baby! Has the other party so disparaged and disheartened your failed ideology that now all you can do is deny your betters their chance to fix the mess made by "The party of No"? The entire country is becoming aware of the obstructionist and politically bankrupt criminal organization that is the Repugnant Party.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel for hilarious party leaders like Limbaugh, Palin and Joe the Plumber is just throwing dripping red meat to the left. Keep it up. I for one love it.
If the right wants a viable second party it had better get it's shit together soon. Otherwise step aside and let the adults clean up the mess!
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:23am
i am a u.s. citizizen/permanent resident of canada living in quebec city. from our apartment, it is five minute walk to the clsc, the government run system of health care clinics. there, last year, i was diagnosed, during a walk in appointment where i waited maybe 20 minutes, with high blood pressure. i received a prescription, which i filled at the pharmacy 10 minutes later, paying a small deductible. blood pressure back to normal.
my wife had an infected wisdom tooth. at the hospital, a 10 minute walk in the other direction, she was given painkillers and an appointment with an oral surgeon a few days later. she is fine.
at the same hospital, on advice of and with a prescription from my doctor, i requested a test for a sleep disorder. within 15 minutes, i was handed a monitoring machine and sent home with instructions to return with the machine the next day, when, within minutes, i received the results of the test, which were sent along to the practicing doctor at the clsc. my appointment with him is scheduled again for a few days.
so, uh, mr maasch, tell me again about the dreadful state of "socialized medicine" up in these parts. i don't mind spending tax dollars for that kind of service. as for your wars, well, you know.
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 11:35am
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 11:35am
All of the Canadians I have spoken to have stories similar to yours. I have never used the Canadian system but by and large have heard great things about it. I have had the opportunity to use the British Healthcare and also in the Netherlands and Denmark. I was not even a citizen but received prompt and effective service from healthcare personnel who were genuinely concerned professionals.
I, for the life of me can't understand why with all these examples some people in this country are so afraid of a single payer healthcare system. Especially those who are not wealthy. People in this country are so afraid of anything that might smack of socialism that they will sacrifice their own health and the health of their children in order to wallow in ignorance.
Not to mention the approx 1 trillion dollars a year in health care savings that such a system would provide.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:55am
The thing that bothers me about Crab and Lillian is that, although they don't come out and say it, I detect an undercurrent of hostility in their attitudes toward physicians.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:09am | ignore this person | warn this person
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Bruce, go back and read the posts before mine. Acook was trying to attack the idea presented in the article about programs like the NHSC being a win-win by providing service opportunities to emerging medical professionals in exchange for their service to underserved areas, by advancing the idea that $50K **isn't** an incentive. I pointed out that it was - probably more so to those who got into medicine to help people, because it would allow them to more eaily help in underserved areas - and less of an incentive to those who got into it just to make the big bucks, becuase they would forgo that incentive for the promise of much larger financial gains.
Your notion that I have hostility towards doctors really did make me laugh though. See...
...I work in a hospital. I have the utmost respct for doctors - and would nominate many nurses for sainthood if I had the opportunity.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 1:19pm
How is everyone going to feel when some worthless government official loses his laptop with a tera-byte drive with millions of medical records on it.
Posted by pyeatte at 03/01/2009 @ 7:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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You posted this same fallacy on another thread. As I pointed out there, it demonstrates sooo much ignorance - of the records policies of every hospital in the country, of the HIPAA laws and regulations that have been US law since 1996, and of computer technology.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 1:28pm
Lillian, this is not about greed! These people give up a good portion of their lives to advance the causes of medicine.
Posted by ACook at 03/01/2009 @ 9:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Yes, I know.
It sounds like you agree with the thinking here and your main complaint about the program then is...
...that it doesn't pay enough!
(Kinda puts you at odds with the rest of those on your side of this one though.)
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 11:35am
Your adopted country has fewer people and immigration problems than here in the US.
The difference in our healthcare systems has more to do with how medical demand is met. You folks in Canada have fewer specialties and more PCPs, and on the flip side, the US has more specialites and fewer PCPs.
This one of the main reasons our med students shy away from primary care is due to how upside down their debt ratio is to their income level.
Posted by ACook at 03/02/2009 @ 1:37pm
Further, you seem to assume that simply because the government has declared one area "underserved," that means other areas are undeserving of a doctor.
Posted by plainbruce at 03/01/2009 @ 9:43pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Really? That's what 'I assume'?
Try cutting and pasting something I wrote that gives you the impression that is what 'I assumed'.
Or could it be you just slipped into the narrow-minded, knee-jerk, neo-con penchant for assuming things about those who present a different perspective from yours.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 1:43pm
Anyone who claims to be a Doctor or a Nurse for that matter that enters the Healthcare field in the hope of reaping a large monetary reward has no business being in field in the first place. The education for people who enter this difficult and challenging area of human service and are qualified to deliver such service should not be encumbered by the cost of their education.
This education should be free to those who show the ability to handle and care for the sick. It is a Noble service and should be served by noble and qualified individuals whose motivation is service. They should be well paid. But not any more so than any other indespensible trade. The karmic reward for helping and assisting the sick and injured should account for more than a monetary reward.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 1:43pm
Yeah...like Kennedy?
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/01/2009 @ 11:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Ted Kennedy is a felon, John? Are you sure?
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 1:48pm
Lil, It is a mere techicality that Teddy is not a felon , had you or I been in his predicament, I assure you... You would be a felon and so would I.
What technicality you might ask?
Wrong last name.
Yes, he is a felon even if he has no paperwork that says so. His behavior through out his life in the very least requires therapy galore and apologies all around. And perhaps a pardon from the Kopeckni family should they be interested.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:13pm
Sandy Berger
Posted by crabwalk at 03/02/2009 @ 2:32pm
Lil said: "Really? That's what 'I assume'?"
I say: First of all, I didn't say you did. I said you "seemed to.'" If that was an inaccurate assessment of your statements, then I apologize. However, I don't think I was in error. (see below)
Lil said: Try cutting and pasting something I wrote that gives you the impression that is what 'I assumed'.
I say: That would be this quote:
"Helping underserved areas get better healthcare sounds like a good thing to me.
I realize offering $50K - $120K won't be an incentive for many people - some people are just plain greedy - but then...
...common sense says those people probably wouldn't be willing to serve for any amount of money."
As I explained in my previous post, in your statement you don't "seem to" entertain the idea that physicians might see a need for service in another area and decide to practice there. That doesn't make them "greedy."
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 3:17pm
Yes, he is a felon even if he has no paperwork that says so. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person .
Well no John, he's not. You may not like it – or him – but unless he's been tried and convicted…
…he isn't a felon.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:40pm
The difference in our healthcare systems has more to do with how medical demand is met. You folks in Canada have fewer specialties and more PCPs, and on the flip side, the US has more specialites and fewer PCPs.
This one of the main reasons our med students shy away from primary care is due to how upside down their debt ratio is to their income level.
Posted by ACook at 03/02/2009 @ 1:37pm
the difference is that the health care system here is publicly funded through taxes and, once you're in the system, you have merely to present your government issued ID the receive the care you need. sorry, acook, people are people and there are immigration problems here as well, just on a smaller scale because the population here is approximately one tenth of the u.s., which would mean that the government has that much less as a source of funding. yet somehow the government manages. private solutions, involving the profit motive, to public needs are simply not the answer, unless of course you believe, for example, that u.s. soldiers in iraq should pay for their own body armor. is that what you're saying?
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 3:43pm
And perhaps a pardon from the Kopeckni family should they be interested.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Sure John.
Then let's also ask the parents of 17-year old Michael Douglas if Laura Bush is a 'felon'.
Not that I agree - these are your rules.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:44pm
If that was an inaccurate assessment of your statements, then I apologize. However, I don't think I was in error. (see below)
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 3:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Yes, that was a completely inaccurate assessment of my statements. I accept your apology.
And your assessment regarding your being in error...
...was in error.
Bruce, you are trying WAAAYYYYY to hard to ascribe to me some either-or mentality born of malice. Neither are there.
I could just as equally claim that your statements 'seem' to not recognize that fact that there ARE 'greedy' healthcare professionals, that there are many who enter practice specifically to 'serve' only the richest, most elite patients - because that's where the big money is.
But I didn't - and for the record - if I wondered about that, I wouldn't have claimed to 'see' or 'seem' or 'assume' that in your statements.
I'd just ask you a question.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:57pm
Well no John, he's not. You may not like it – or him – but unless he's been tried and convicted…
…he isn't a felon.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:40pm
Sure, I agree....
and Bush/Cheney are not criminals..correct? I just want a little lib consistancy...
and pardon me while I take a pass on the moral Lion lecturing everyone from his perch on the Senate floor...Teddy.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 4:02pm
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 4:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
gee i dunno. i thought the subject of ms. vandenheuvel's original post was health care and the public's obligation to reforming the system. i don't understand what teddy kennedy's past has to do with it. then again maybe da col' air up 'ere is affectin' my t'inkin'
can we try to be civil and talk about the issue at hand?
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:27pm
You folks in Canada
Posted by ACook at 03/02/2009 @ 1:37pm
what, aren't americans smart enough?
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:59pm
....Congratulations to your son...And don't forget to send him food!
Posted by plainbruce at 03/02/2009 @ 12:55am
To him, yes, and thanks on his behalf......I am still keeping his Nov. phone message which he left on our home answer machine "...I'm going to be a doctor" which he delivered right after he got a text phone message of acceptance....it is the most excited 7 HAPPY verbal communication we have EVER got from him.
Just not sure if I share his enthusiasm...but yes, we are very proud of him.
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 5:13pm
Give back? The heiress to the Jules Stein fortune demands that I give back?
Honey, I gave at the office.
While you were galavanting around Rockefeller center and buying The Nation I spent a decade working 80-100 hours a week for laughably low pay learning my medical craft and working on the poorest of the poor.
So no. I do not apologize for being good at what I do and being well paid for it. If you want poor people to have access to my services, just pay honestly for their insurance. But no, my aching back and varicose veins remind me every day that I have already given enough.
Posted by JohnGalt09 at 03/02/2009 @ 6:09pm
is that what you're saying?
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 3:43pm
No, that's not what I'm saying.
Posted by ACook at 03/02/2009 @ 7:53pm
Katrina,
Great job taking on Karl Rove!
Posted by FDR43 at 03/02/2009 @ 8:37pm
Katrina,
Great job taking on Karl Rove!
Posted by FDR43 at 03/02/2009 @ 8:37pm
I felt bad for her...she was shredded,
poor thing sat there reciting montras and was left reciting them again after Karl destroyed her time and again..
I was really disappointed in her....I expect so much more out of her..
Maybe next time..
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 8:54pm
can we try to be civil and talk about the issue at hand?
Posted by kennyboy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:27pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Sure thing Ken.
Check my ealier posts up thread.
Then note who brought up Ted Kennedy.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 9:32pm
Sure, I agree....
and Bush/Cheney are not criminals..correct? I just want a little lib consistancy...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 4:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Feel free to cut and paste from any post where I said they were, John.
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 9:41pm
As a Canadian living in British Columbia, I can tell you that our health care system is very good. About 5 years ago there were long wait times as the system was not adequately funded. There was a public furor and a big study was done. Lately, I have not heard mention of long wait times so actions must have been taken as a result of the study. My father recently had a hernia operation and he only had to wait a few weeks. Medical insurance is very reasonable. People get extra private insurance (sometimes as a benefit from their employer) to pay for extras like glasses, dental and prescriptions. Many people I know, especially older folks, wont go to the US unless they get extra medical travel insurance. We hear so many horror tales about people going to the states, getting injured and then getting hospital bills that bankrupt them.
Posted by Irmanator at 03/03/2009 @ 12:06am
No, that's not what I'm saying.
then what are you saying, acook?
Posted by kennyboy at 03/03/2009 @ 01:12am
So you'd never vote for....
Sarah Palin?
Posted by Mask
No. Sarah Palin is an appalling rube and will never be POTUS.
With all of the businesses going belly up, a lot of people have lost or are about to lose their health insurance.
Also, with the lopsided labor market in the US and increasing premium costs, aren't a lot of businesses canceling health insurance provisions for their employees?
There has to be a point where the system will collapse. Another bubble.
Also, DJIA below 7,000. This is getting truly scary. At some point there is going to be a panic of stockholders trying to salvage whatever they can before total cratering of the market.
Posted by koroviev at 03/03/2009 @ 05:03am
Hmmm, the actual experiences of those that HAVE "socialized medicine" don't square with the cons fears.
Imagine that!
My wife needs to see an endocrinologist. We live in an area with several top rated hospitals. Her appointment is at the end of June. Good thing we don't have those long socialist waiting periods! We just learned last night that our insurance company denied the primary Phys visit payment because it was "diagnostic in nature". Good thing we don't have beeyro-crats running things!!
Posted by crabwalk at 03/03/2009 @ 07:11am
Posted by koroviev at 03/03/2009 @ 05:03am
You should have Pontificus explain to you that the "recession" is only a media lie to get Obama elected. It is purely mental.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/03/2009 @ 07:13am
Posted by antisocialist at 03/01/2009 @ 8:18pm
Anybody want to bet that our local right-wingers would give Sarah Palin the same pass on "paying back a few owed taxes"....
if she had beem a Democrat and nominated by Obama for a position?
BTW, anybody think Romney, Jindal, Pawlenty, Sanford...won't keep bringing it up in 2012 (if through intermediaries)???....heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2009 @ 09:05am
Anybody want to bet that our local right-wingers would give Sarah Palin the same pass on "paying back a few owed taxes"....
if she had beem a Democrat and nominated by Obama for a position?
BTW, anybody think Romney, Jindal, Pawlenty, Sanford...won't keep bringing it up in 2012 (if through intermediaries)???....heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2009 @ 09:05am
You keep trying to recreate the facts Mask. Perhaps you will succeed. After all it seems that most liberals are too lazy or ? (including yourself) to actually investigate the facts.
This was a Alaska state income tax ruling on a vague law (according to the investigators who ruled on it), and once the ruling was made, she paid it. Perhaps you are in the habit of paying taxes that are not delineated, but most people don't.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/03/2009 @ 3:07pm
IF "price is no object" then a taxpayer funded health care system [another version of our current socialized medicine that doesn't favor providers] will provide less availability. People who have way more than ample funding for care will come here because the lines are shorter. They don't have to wait behind people who lack serious money for health care. If you have no health insurance or woefully inadequate health insurance then you have to postpone or forgo many health care choices. If we went to real free markets many low income people could enter the health care profession and provide care for most people at affordable prices. Over 80% of care can be handled with less than 2 years of training - but is forbidden by regulation. All the routine care is legislated to be done by highly trained [at 100k/year for education] and expensive professionals who are way overqualified people to provide these services. Nobody could afford someone with a PHD in horticulture to trim the hedges but this is what regulations often entail. However if we instituted free market reforms in health care the uproar from the whiners would be deafening! They want socialism for themselves and free markets for everyone else.
Posted by rimchamp77 at 03/03/2009 @ 8:15pm
The epitome of Fraud Waste and Abuse---Root that out and we can afford much more!
Summary: The Wall Street Journal reported that Richard Scott, "the former chief executive of HCA Inc," had formed the non-profit organization Conservatives for Patients' Rights as part of a "lobbying campaign to derail or modify" President Obama's health care proposals, but failed to note that Scott resigned from HCA in 1997 amid a federal investigation into the company's Medicare billing, physician recruiting, and home-care practices. HCA eventually pleaded guilty to fraud charges and paid approximately $1.7 billion in fines and penalties.
Who is Richard Scott? Who is Richard Rainwater? Who is Darla Moore? Before GW Bush was affiliated with Richard Rainwater may I remind you-Richard Scott was the ex-partner of Richard Rainwater with Columbia Homecare Group.
THURSDAY, JUNE 26, 2003; WWW.USDOJ.GOV; HCA Inc. (formerly known as Columbia/HCA and HCA - The Healthcare Company) LARGEST HEALTH CARE FRAUD CASE IN U.S. HISTORY SETTLED; HCA INVESTIGATION NETS RECORD TOTAL OF $1.7 BILLION Note: Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) was acquired by Columbia in 1994.
Why does this matter? Because the wrath of Richard Scott's fraud just ended in December 2008 in the largest private financial fraud case in our country's history in 2002 when FBI raided the offices of National Century Financial Enterprises Dublin, Ohio, headquarters.
Guess where Columbia and many of the other publicly traded healthcare companies DUMPED their losing asset, Home healthcare? National Century Financial Enterprises
National Century Financial Enterprises: "This case is one of the largest corporate fraud investigations involving a privately held company headquartered in small town America," said Assis
Posted by sasha2008 at 03/06/2009 @ 7:35pm