Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditFour years ago we gathered at The Nation to watch the election returns. Around midnight we began to weep. But we had to put out an issue the next day. So, through the grim night and bleak day after, as the Election 2004 verdict became clear, we held our emotions in check and worked to make sense of the disaster that had befallen the country. The cover of our issue that week was of a black sky, dark clouds obscuring a slim and crestfallen moon, with a simple headline: "Four More Years."
Four years later, our offices are filled with editors, writers, interns, and colleagues--some crying, this time with joy--all jubilant about the new era of possibility opened up by Barack Obama's victory. We know there is work ahead to build a politics of sanity and justice and peace. But tonight we simply celebrate.
Obama's election marks a remarkable moment in our country's history--a milestone in America's scarred racial landscape and a victory for the forces of decency, diversity and tolerance. As our editorial board member Roger Wilkins reminded us on the eve of the election, Obama's win "doesn't turn a switch that eradicates our whole national history and culture." But "win or lose, Obama has already made this a better country, made your children's future better."
This long and winding campaign has been marked by highs and lows, necessary and unnecessary divisions, indelible characters and high drama. For the first time in decades, electoral politics became a vehicle for raising expectations and spreading hope--bringing in millions of new voters. The Obama team's respect for the core decency, dignity and intelligence of the American people was reflected in the campaign's organizing mantra --"Respect-Empower-Include." In contrast, the McCain campaign chose to denigrate voters' intelligence, spread the smears and mock the dignity of work with its cynical celebration of a plumber who wasn't really a plumber.
Grassroots engagement and record-shattering turnout contributed mightily to Obama's decisive victory. Moving forward, this small-d democratic movement --broad-based and energized--will be critical in overcoming the timid incrementalists, the forces of money and establishment power, that are obstacles to meaningful change. And it will be needed to forge the fate and fortune of a bold progressive agenda.
Already we hear calls that the new Democratic majority must not "overreach." That is code for "do not use your mandate." Ignore those calls--- this election was a referendum on conservatism that has guided American politics since 1980. Indeed, future historians may well view Barack Obama's victory as the end of the age of Reagan and the beginning of something substantially new. And progressives can justifiably claim that the election outcome was a clear repudiation of conservative economic ideas and absurd claims that a more egalitarian approach to growth constitutes "socialism." This ideological rejection, the sharp failures of the Bush Administration and, perhaps most important, the shifts in public views on the economy and the war have led to this watershed moment--a historic opportunity for a progressive governing agenda and a mandate for bold action.
The great challenge for The Nation and other independent and progressive forces is whether we can harness the energy and idealism unleashed by Obama's candidacy--and the collapse of conservatism--to expand the limits of the current debate. The Nation, unmortgaged to any economic interest or political power, will continue to challenge our downsized politics of excluded alternatives, propose bold ideas, ferret out the truth, expose corruption and abuse of power, and hold our politicians accountable. We will work with grounded realism and determined idealism to broadly reimagine the future.
For the first time in close to a decade, there will be sympathetic allies on the inside of the Executive Branch, and we will need to pepper them with smart and strategic ideas and offer clear alternatives. And working with allies--activists, thinkers, scholars, progressive members of Congress, the netroots, engaged citizens--The Nation will drive not-yet-ready-for-prime time ideas into the political arena and reset the valence of our politics.
We know the Democratic Party is not the only vehicle for change. Historically, the party's finest moments have come when it was pushed into action from the outside by popular social movements. That same pressure is needed now. Retreat and timidity are losing strategies for addressing economic crisis, a shredded social compact, two wars which must be ended, and a damaged reputation abroad--especially with stronger majorities in Congress and a new president who has raised expectations and promised real change.
After years of playing defense, it is time to unshackle our imaginations, build coalitions and craft creative strategies that will move, persuade and push President Obama and a new Congress to seize the mandate they have been offered. We are not naive. We know there are formidable obstacles ahead. Without organizing and grassroots pressure, the corporate power over both parties will continue to suffocate possibilities. And despite the metastasizing financial crisis, the conservative assault on government still cripples our sense of what is fully possible.
With the country at an ideological watershed Obama has a historic opportunity to reshape the ruling paradigm of American politics. The old order that has ruled for nearly thirty years has imploded. Building a new order will require continued mobilization and strategic creativity. It will be vital to sustain a reform politics and movement independent of the administration and the Democratic leadership in Congress.
Progressives in the Senate and the House, many grouped around the Progressive Caucus, can provide both leadership and a public forum for new ideas. Cutting-edge and independent organizations like the Apollo Alliance, the Campaign for America's Future, the Institute for Policy Studies and the Economic Policy Institute can help us think outside the establishment box. Independent media, new and old--and, as in the case of The Nation, new/old--can track the limits of the debate and give new ideas greater visibility. Reform leaders at the state and local levels can champion legislation that will be a model for the national agenda. And the emerging grassroots movements, supported by the idealism, energy and civic spirit of the young, will be crucial to tap and channel into post-electoral organizing work.
History tells us how Franklin Delano Roosevelt was compelled to abandon caution because of the great traumas of his day. The Great Depression gave him little choice but to be bold. But it was popular social movements working outside the administration and empowered unions of that time that put strong pressure on FDR to carry out bolder reforms. That outside force was disciplined, strategic and focused, and it made the FDR years much better than if people had just sat back and let the President fend for himself against special interests. There's a powerful lesson in there for the movements of our times.
Likewise, our hard times may push Obama to become a more boldly reformist President than he had envisioned--one who really does rearrange power on behalf of the people. But as we know from history and these last years---as progressives have driven the agenda on war, a green economy, trade and energy independence--Obama will need to hear from (and listen to) the millions of grassroots activists he has inspired if he is to overcome establishment power and well-funded lobbies.
I believe the fate of Obama's presidency will be determined by how bold he chooses to be. We may not agree with everything he will do, but he has a historic opportunity to be a truly transformative president and lead the country in a new direction. He has run a brilliant campaign in which he has spoken eloquently of the power and promise of "change from below." Will that understanding lead him to re-envision a government that truly reorders America's priorities and values, and reconnects with the needs of people? After all, isn't it long past time to confront neglected social needs, tackle the deep corruption in our financial system and corporations, restore our civil liberties and respect for human rights, enact universal health care, protect a worker's right to organize, invest in renewable energy and a green economy, end the endless wars, and regain America's standing in the world?
Tonight we celebrate. Tomorrow we begin our work--with passion, conviction, hope, and determination.
Share this article
Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
RSS
Actually, I think this will officially break the mandate number. 375 right?
Overreaching is in order.
Troops home now.
Healthcare for everyone.
Posted by bleedingheart at 11/04/2008 @ 11:15pm
Oddly enough, I'm not hearing any stories about voter suppression. Guess that only happens when the Republicans win.
Formula: Repubs win -- they cheated Dems win -- clean as a whistle!
Posted by hepstein at 11/04/2008 @ 11:18pm
Formula: Repubs win -- they cheated Dems win -- clean as a whistle! Posted by hepstein at 11/04/2008 @ 11:18pm
Actually I have hear plenty about voter suppression all day. It's just you stop caring when it doesn't work.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/04/2008 @ 11:18pm
Oddly enough, I'm not hearing any stories about voter suppression. Guess that only happens when the Republicans win.
Katherine Harris requested those names be stricken from the roles in Fla. back in 2000. If you know of any Secretary of State purging voter roles, please bring it up.
Posted by koroviev at 11/04/2008 @ 11:21pm
I am now watching McCain concede to President-elect Obama. That is the only argument needed here.
Posted by davefoley0 at 11/04/2008 @ 11:22pm
There has been a slew of voter suppression, and still, McCain got beaten like a gong. That's why you don't hear about it. Perhaps in another few years, if we fight for real election reform, you will not have to hear about it at all. Which will be nice because that will mean I will not have to hear much about the Republican party at all.
Posted by onthehelm at 11/04/2008 @ 11:29pm
Sorry, Ms vanden Heuvel...
no "New New Deal". Just "better than it was".
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/04/2008 @ 11:38pm
I wish to offer my heartfelt congratulations to President-elect Obama and Vice-President-elect Biden. I'm not an American but I felt a very real lump in my throat as I watched CNN declare the election of your new President. I now have hope that my children and my grandchildren will have a much better future than the disasters we've been forced to endure over the past near eight years.
Posted by cajunbob123 at 11/05/2008 @ 12:11am
Viva Obama! Well done, American Majority!
The task now is to CHANGE THE BUREAUCRACY! Change their attitudes! Eliminate their sense of impunity. Government BY the people FOR the people!
Obama must restore all constitutional rights that were dismantled by W.
(And, maybe, Mozilla Firefox's spell-check will soon learn to recognize Barack Obama)
Posted by mikecope at 11/05/2008 @ 01:00am
Well you liberals, you finally got one in the WH. Congratulations!
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:24am
We did it. And I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. Here we go, into a new age, and I'm happy to be here on the ride. Finally, we rid ourselves of the disease that has almost killed this country.
Posted by rasputin195 at 11/05/2008 @ 01:24am
Hey Acook...your side had it and darn near destroyed this nation. Now WE have to come in and clean up the zmess the GOP left, I'd say "thanks", but that would be rude.
Posted by rasputin195 at 11/05/2008 @ 01:27am
thanks, acook. and i mean that. you are one of my favorite republicans!
:)
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 01:29am
Hey, Acook .. don't let it worry you. You'll be fine, as everyone else will be. Remember: liberals gave you a 5-day workweek, child labor laws, social security, civil rights, the voting rights act, a cleaner environment--and under President Clinton (not exactly a flaming liberal), a record surplus, which was then squandered, along with America's good name, by the next eight years of neoconservative rule.
Sit back and relax. I think you'll like the new America, and you'll feel better about yourself when you admit it.
Cheers!
Posted by MemeLynne at 11/05/2008 @ 01:35am
Posted by rasputin195 at 11/05/2008 @ 01:27am
Sure it's a mess, but we didn't start it. You guys still have Jimmy Carter to thank for this nation's messy beginnings.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:36am
The entire world (except one country) is excited about President Obama. That one country is Israel, silent and squirming, because it is concerned that Obama will be balanced and fair with the Palestinian issue. We must be reminded that the reason why the hijackers attacked America on 9/11 WAS the one-sidedness it had with Israel.Israel wants to have its cake and eat it too, i.e. no peace and total authoritarian control of the Arab population. I hope that President Obama WILL be bipartisan and balanced and fair and non-responsive to bribery. A two state solution living side by side in peace is the only fair goal.
Posted by mystic at 11/05/2008 @ 01:42am
Where is "LOVELIBERTY'? He has now seen all of his rightwing fascist ideology rejected by the U.S. people. This is a defining moment when the course of the nation takes a totally different direction toward progressive values.Everything that "LOVELIBERTY" (an absurd Orwellian lable) believes in has been rejected. All is good!
Posted by philbq at 11/05/2008 @ 01:43am
Posted by MemeLynne at 11/05/2008 @ 01:35am
Yeah, MemeLynne, and the 5-day work week stretched to 7-days, child-labor laws have done little to protect children, social security is on life support, civils rights has become a catch phase for any extremist group who wants their own agenda crammed down our thoats, cleaner environment just cost me an additional $70 bucks a month, and the surplus you libs like to chirp about caused a bad recession.
As for hoping for a new America, it will be 4 years of shear struggle. Not a rosey outlook.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:52am
Posted by mystic at 11/05/2008 @ 01:42am
Not if Rahm Emmanuel has anything to say about it.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:54am
You guys still have Jimmy Carter to thank for this nation's messy beginnings.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:36am
And you guys had your chance to do something about "it". Your party squandered the wealth and goodwill you inherited and the American people have soundly and deservedly punished you for it. Scream and fling dung from the trash-heap of history if you must, but it is still the trash-heap of history to which you will now be relegated.
The Republican Party as we have known it for the last 30 years has ceased to exist. If the bitter, belligerant neanderthals who booed during McCain's concession speech are those who will rebuild the Republican Party, it will cease to exist altogether. As well evidenced by this election, America is done with that, we have moved beyond that, and if that is what the Republican Party is going to be, then America will leave it behind, just like it did tonight.
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 02:13am
Karl Rove reacted to Barack Obama's win Tuesday night on Fox News, saying "every American ought to celebrate tonight."
"It is a hopeful and optimistic thing for our country, and for the world it's a great symbol of what America's all about," Rove said, urging all Americans to hope and pray for Obama's success.
Following Rove's advice is the only hope for relevance and survival the Republican Party has.
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 02:15am
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 02:13am
The republican party will be back in 4 years.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 02:36am
The republican party will be back in 4 years.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 02:36am
That's right, darling. Now go to sleep. Sweet dreams.
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 02:56am
2HAPPY, antiliberal, barry25, davebarlett, frankgrits, Frankshitsz, freiheit1, GupDog, Happy, John B, john maasch, JoMa JOMAMMA libshitbrains, libzRfreaks, libzsuck, looneylefties, lvliberty, MarkCanyon, marybretbrad, pontificus, RedRiver_., Rese, rightstuff, Rio Bravo, woodyee...
Here is a gift for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upvZdVK913I
Posted by mikecope at 11/05/2008 @ 03:33am
The controlling neo-con, right wing of the Republican party should recognize that their divisive, hateful and self-righteous ideology is not welcomed here anymore.
Let's hope they and their fascist poster girl will just go home. You would think they would understand ...
But ... they'll come back wearing different clothes and they'll preach their brand of ugly and selective democracy.
We can never let our guard down again.
Posted by Hoot at 11/05/2008 @ 04:10am
Splendid victory ...
... now keep Obama's feet to the progressive fire.
No New Deal = no deal.
No withdrawal from imperial wars = disaster.
Add 'em both up, and Mike Bloomberg can buy himself a nomination & the White House in '12.
Not to mention Hillary running a primary challenge v. the man stuck in quicksand.
1st signs, the cabinet, of course.
If Larry Summers' name appears, forget a New Deal.
If Gates stays at Defense, it's quicksand up to the eyeballs.
And a GOP win in '12.
But tonight, a champagne toast to the elegant, eloquent, most amazing victor in US presidential history.
Do the right thing!
Posted by sloper at 11/05/2008 @ 04:45am
You guys still have Jimmy Carter to thank for this nation's messy beginnings.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:36am
Huh? Beginnings of what? This election marks the end of the Reagan era, 28 years which indelibly shaped this country. Deregulation. Anti-governmental attitudes (from governmental leaders, Brilliant!). Militarism. Social divisiveness. Corporate hegemony. Toxic culture. It is unrecognizable from what it was. And Jimmy Carter did what? You gotta be kidding me!
Posted by jolieg at 11/05/2008 @ 05:05am
This only the first small step in the long long road to a return of the America our grand parents and parents left us originally. The return to a place were we honor the world of work of real labor from the garbage collector to the college professor, from the engineer to the maid making beds at the Hyatt. But thank the God almighty we have taken the first step. We have seen a generational shift that will be hard to reverse and possibly put and end to the notion that our constitution is an obsolete document and should be scrapped to favor the investor class.
Posted by lachatte at 11/05/2008 @ 05:20am
mystic,
You said (Regarding the middle east):
" A two state solution living side by side in peace is the only fair goal. "
That is a goal that was acceptable to Israel in 1948, has never been rejected by Israel, but a goal which has been completely and throughly rejected by the Palestinians and the Arab world, over and over again.
They do not want a two-state solution. They want no Israel. They have never wavered in their opposition, they have done everything in their power since 1948 to try and destroy Israel, and they have never been held to account for their actions by the rest of the world, much of who actually supports their goal.
They continually wage war and bring death upon the Israeli people and have never made any meaningful concession towards stopping this.
Over and over again the demand is made for Israel to concede something, give up something, in return for "peace". Eventually Israel complies with the demand, and then the response from the Palestinians is to try and kill more Jews. This cycle continually plays itself out without end.
You imply we are not supposed to have "one sided" support for Israel. But since Israel is totally right in this matter, it would be wrong to have anything other than "one sided" support.
But the wrong may now occur, with you happy about it. It won't stop the Palestinian and Arab hatred towards Israel, however. I do not know what it will take for you to see that the goal of the Palestinians is not a two state solution, but no Israel.
But, this may be overcome by events. While Obama is talking to the president of Iran, he will be developing the nuclear weapons. Once complete, if he hauls off and nukes Israel, then I guess the question will be moot, and Obama will go and talk to him some more.
Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 06:58am
Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 06:58am
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 07:28am
Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 06:58am
bonk.
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/05/2008 @ 07:58am
Posted by jolieg at 11/05/2008 @ 05:05am
No, my dear, this financial mess started with Jimmy Carter. Read up on your history.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 08:04am
Congratulations to President-elect Obama, Vice President-elect Biden and their families. I can't wait for Inauguration day!
Posted by k330k at 11/05/2008 @ 08:09am
so why didn't st. ronald fix it?
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/05/2008 @ 08:09am
ACook I am reluctant to say anything negative to you right now. I don't know where you get your information. It is certainly biased and misinterpreted. It seems that you are filled with anger, that must be awful. If you keep that anger internalized it will lead to depression, you know that.
My brother-in-law makes the same misguided argument regarding Carter. He got it from Rush. I suspect that is your source also. I think that no matter what good is done by our new president, you will see only a negative outcome. If someone gave you a million dollars you would probally complain about the taxes on it. That bitterness is going to eat you alive.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 08:45am
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/04/2008 @ 11:38pm
I've switched off the haunted fish tank temporarily, in order to give the hyperbole a chance to ebb.
But, for the moment anyway, "better than it was" works for me.
Posted by drhammer at 11/05/2008 @ 08:55am
Posted by lachatte at 11/05/2008 @ 05:20am
I'm feelin' 'ya...
Posted by drhammer at 11/05/2008 @ 08:57am
better than it was.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/05/2008 @ 09:05am
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 08:45am
I'm not angry and your brother-in-law was right. I know how Jimmy Carter's legacy affected my family. We endured his god-awful four-year nightmare. The economy suffered double-digit inflation, very high interest rates, oil shortages, high unemployment and slow economic growth, airline deregualtion, sent arms to Afghan rebels in 1979 before Russia invaded and by taking in the Shah of Iran (against their wishes), our embassy in Tehran was taken over by fundamentalists and our people were held captive for 444 days. And at the end of his term our budget deficit was around $66B.
So this isn't biased, it's the truth nor do I listen to Rush Limbaugh.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 09:19am
immediately reverse all of bush's end game strategy of allowing unlimited drilling in protected areas while passing law similar to telecom law of 1996 whereby all wind, solar, etc. are all "public utilities"...it will make a great difference in home rule states where a couple landowners can block and entire project which would increase our energy independence...
wind can't go somewhere else, it is where it is, just like solar, geothermal....
let's try to see the big picture...
now is our chance....
Posted by jrs112 at 11/05/2008 @ 09:26am
The far-right Republican Base response to the Obama victory
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ_Sqj7JUn8
Posted by leftofcenter at 11/05/2008 @ 09:40am
So this isn't biased, it's the truth nor do I listen to Rush Limbaugh.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 09:19am
What it is, is old. Almost thirty years old. Would it be helpful if I went back and listed the great achievements of Nixon or the deficit of the neocon god ray gun. That is not to even think about the international embarrassment of Bush and Chaney. You are wasting your time if you are trying to convince myself or any of the other left wing/socialist/comminist/what ever you want to call us, on this blog of any validity of right wing, theocratic crap.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 09:51am
So this isn't biased, it's the truth nor do I listen to Rush Limbaugh. Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 09:19am
I would blame it on Reagan and his Reaganomics which has been in place since he was President. But of course you will ignore that in order to make your biased claim that you claim isn't biased.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/05/2008 @ 10:04am
"But since Israel is totally right in this matter,"
whattaloadofcrap.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 10:06am
As for hoping for a new America, it will be 4 years of shear struggle.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 01:52am
YES to more good hair days. Barbers of the country unite!
Posted by zentronix at 11/05/2008 @ 10:37am
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 09:51am
I'm not here to convince you or anyone else of anything. Just remember, every avalanche has a starting point.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 10:54am
ACook, at least learn to spell. Even the most reasoned argument is undercut when a slew of words are misspelled. (Or perhaps you used "shear" struggle as a codeword for Obama's hair?)
Posted by Audeamus at 11/05/2008 @ 10:56am
Cccomfo1,
Reaganomics were not to blame for the rise of the deficit in the 1980's.
http://www.cato.org/ pub_display.php? pub_id=1120&full=1
excerpt:
If the Reagan tax cut was not the major contributing factor to the increasing deficit in the 1980s, what was? There were two primary explanations: (1) a large and sustained defense build-up; and (2) the unexpected rapid decline in inflation and the recession in the early 1980s.
Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 10:59am
"I do not know what it will take for you to see that the goal of the Palestinians is not a two state solution, but no Israel" (sjchermak) I hear you;I am aware of that. But that's what diplomacy is all about. It's give and take. Not so long ago, Russia wanted to annihilate the US with nukes, but we got through the cold war with diplomacy. The analogy I agree is not the same, but didn't Rabin offer a decent deal before he was assassinated because of it? Israel has nukes, the Palestinians don't. What you're saying is a permanent state of war is the only answer.I just don't accept that; Look what happened in South Africa when you had two equal visionaries, De Klerk and Mandela.We need another Rabin and an equal visionary on the Palestinian side. But carrots do work.Same with Iran.
Posted by mystic at 11/05/2008 @ 11:02am
I think one could go back to JFK and the staggering cost of US in Vietnam but I do think it was the neocons embedded in the prototype of today's structure that kept the machine rolling. The bill came due after 1975 - you can't blame it on Carter. And the punkery of the Iranians that took the embassy staff hostage, despite the fact that thousands of Americans SUPPORTED the movement and participated in the protests to oust the Shah, THAT surely cannot be blamed on Carter.
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 11/05/2008 @ 11:06am
"Oddly enough, I'm not hearing any stories about voter suppression. Guess that only happens when the Republicans win.
Formula: Repubs win -- they cheated Dems win -- clean as a whistle!"
Posted by hepstein at 11/04/2008 @ 11:18pm | warn this person
Hep, I can't tell if your an agent provocateur or if you just have your head up your a$$. The news media was rife with examples of classic Republican voter suppression. In at least two states, voters recieved letters telling them that Democrats voted on November 5. Numerous example of electronic voting machines de-selecting Obama if voting a straight-party Democratic ticket. People being told they voted at a different location, or that they would be arrested of they showed up to vote with unpaid parking tickets or unpaid child support. Police cars circling predominantly black polling stations. Lost ballots. Robo-dialing harassment. 2000 = 2004 = 2008...only it didn't work well enough this time...heh.
In most examples above, the Republicans clearly benefited from the resulting votor suppression. God only knows what a landslide it would have been for Obama had there actually been an honest election for a change.
So think before you speak, Hep. I don't even live in the US, and I'm better informed about your American politics than you are. Maybe you should stop getting your news from Fox and CNN...
Posted by kdk1966 at 11/05/2008 @ 11:08am
come on guys. don't be attacking acook with petty things like spelling. she's not a fascist. she is a caring person. she is never rude. she argues her points without resorting to the lower forms of communication that many of us, including myself, engage in.
i never would have been able to offer congratulations to anyone if mccain had won. i'd be homicidal, no longer fit to live in society.
there are lots of creepy, disgusting right wingers who post here. acook is not one of them.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 11:10am
If the Reagan tax cut was not the major contributing factor to the increasing deficit in the 1980s, what was? There were two primary explanations: (1) a large and sustained defense build-up; and (2) the unexpected rapid decline in inflation and the recession in the early 1980s. Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 10:59am
Hmmm. You obviously missed my point but still proved that it was Reagans fault. My point was that there is convincing evidence to say that the CURRENT state of things is because of a sustained use of the principles of Reaganomics in this country. As you can see ACook is attempting to blame the current state of things on Carter. Of course this is all partisan stupidity with little to no proof backing it and she will continue to rant and rave about how all of this is just to Democrats fault ignoring the fact that primarily it is Republicans who have run this country for quite a while and have had plenty of time to clean up and make things better.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/05/2008 @ 11:13am
Obama's campaign and election is surely a milestone to remember in US political history. Incidentally I chanced upon this movie "The World Without US" on Amazon, which is a documentary on the fate of the world if US chooses to withdraw its troops from the world and focus on domestic issues. It's lucid presentation and the intriguing way the story unfolds as the narrator journeys throughout the world in search of answers is great and quite engrossing. It really is an excellent presentation and a thorough depiction of facts pertaining to world defense issues and the role of US therein.
Posted by westlife at 11/05/2008 @ 11:22am
Just learn whatever lessons there are to learn, personally. That's my goal. I've learned lots through this process. For one thing, 'left' are 'right' continue to deteriorate as useful constructs. Much of the crowd at Obama's acceptance was there out of concern for the unraveling of democracy. They were motivated by a concern for CONSERVING America. The basics. Keeping a budget (hideous national debt / coporate welfare & having to bailout banks are unAmerican and unConservative) while providing a safety net (50 million uninsured / Katrina catastrophes are unAmerican and unConservative) using the bully pulpit to actually 'spread freedom', not to make war in the name of freedom (way unAmerican and unConservative). Maturity by definition comes after immaturity.
Posted by winyahn at 11/05/2008 @ 11:23am
there are lots of creepy, disgusting right wingers who post here. acook is not one of them.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 11:10am
You are correct loveloki.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 11:30am
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 11:10am
Thank you.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 11:32am
mystic,
You said (Regarding the Middle East) that it is give and take.
Normally, that would certainly be true. However, I can not think of a single concession or "give" of any substance that the Palestinians have ever made.
This has continually been a one-way street. Israel was not even in the territories until 1967, under constant threat of annihilation Israel saw the need to have a buffer of defense.
When you go back to any thing that is now cited by some as an Israeli "wrong", it is a position Israel has taken for it's own defense, whether it be presence in the terroritories, or the security fence, or restrictions on Palestinian movement.
Over time in the terroritories Israel established settlements. But - in Gaza Israel totally gave them up and turned Gaza over to the Palestinians, and what has that gotten Israel?
Just more attacks towards Israel.
No concession Israel makes is ever reciprocated. And when agreements are made, they seem to be worthless.
Arafat grudgingly acknowledged the right of Israel to exist. In English, he did this. However, the message going out behind the scenes in Arabic was the opposite.
One of the elements of Oslo was that children on either side would not be taught hate any more, instead tolerance for the other side.
But Palestinian schoolchildren still had textbooks that marked the entire region as "Palestine", with no acknowledgement of the existence of Israel.
One of the major problems is the world hate towards Israel and towards Jews, which means there is no pressure on Palestinians to make any concessions.
So, I have no solution. I do not know how to force the Palestinians to "give" in this process.
It is not reasonable to say Israel can not defend itself when there is no Palestinian "give"
Posted by sjchermak at 11/05/2008 @ 11:45am
What really impressed me more than anything is the beautiful complexion of the diverse Grant Park celebrants. Economy & Health Care, please!
Posted by Goldendome at 11/05/2008 @ 11:55am
Katrina vanden Heuvel boils November 4, 2008 better than all the other "pundits" put together...I pray that President-Elect Obama's eyes fall on this article today.
Watching the awkward President Bush speak on the White House lawn today was sad and tragic. What a contrast.
Posted by ChuckJiver at 11/05/2008 @ 11:58am
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/05/2008 @ 11:13am
On the contrary, I said it started in the Carter administration and avalanched from there and the last 4 administrations did nothing to stop it, let alone to try and contain some of it.
It's almost a shame that you have no clear understanding of what most of us older folks lived through during those very tough years of political misteps by both parties. You were just a twinkle in your mother's eye when everything went down.
Enjoy your shining moment.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 12:00pm
Katrina,
I had the privilege of being on a conference call with Nation supporters, and to ask a question. The question, in retrospect, inane--what should we do about the dominance of the "Mainstream Media?" Clearly, the Obama/progressive victory answers that question. Progressive voices like the Nation, the Nation on line, MSNBC (Olberman and Maddow) and Air America, plus the progressive blogosphere, has transformed this election. The Rove-Right Wing slime machine was so much less effective because of the massive voice of the New Media. Witness Dole's loss in NC. Her "godless" campaign was exposed as the scurrilous fraud it was, and she lost the election because of it.
Katrina--good work. Let's keep President Obama's feet to the fire.
Bill Foote
Posted by 4npsych at 11/05/2008 @ 12:05pm
By a French reader, from France: I'd want to say "Thank you, America and congratulations". And, in spite of these disgusting eight last years, reading The Nation and other progressive american media has made confident to a better and more democratic future for your country. It would help if some progressive media here in France stopped to attempt to make us believe that the average American seems to be some corn-fed creep farmer waving his gun around and bullying gays or black people. They told people about Rep. Bachmann's paranoid delusion, but not not about you rebuking her. And saw you and it was delightful : some right-wing politicians here in France would need some reporter like you and your courage, Mrs Vanden Heuvel. Thanks a lot!
Posted by Morgantermeulen at 11/05/2008 @ 12:08pm
>>>Tonight we celebrate. Tomorrow we begin our work--with passion, conviction, hope, and determination.<<<
HOPE AND UNITY TRIUMPHS OVER FEAR AND DIVISION!
Goodbye Karl Rove, and good riddance!
Posted by Metteyya at 11/05/2008 @ 12:09pm
Brava!
Posted by The Wise Bard at 11/05/2008 @ 12:11pm
Russia wanted to annihilate the US with nukes, but we got through the cold war with diplomacy.
Posted by mystic at 11/05/2008 @ 11:02am
Actually, we didn't get through the cold war because of "diplomacy", we simply outspent them in the arms race and they couldn't keep up. Not to mention most of the West had them isolated anyway. It was nearly impossible for them to expand their economy.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 12:12pm
Let's try to get this right. This election was not about who did what in the past (from Carter to Bush). It is about what can be. Remember that!
Posted by piglizard420 at 11/05/2008 @ 12:16pm
Enjoy your shining moment. Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 12:00pm
I am. Enjoy your partisanship and continued division. Blame the Demoncrats!
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/05/2008 @ 12:26pm
RIP repubs. your day has past. face it. next election will be even more of the same. move now if don;t like it. bye!
Posted by rmjlattanzi at 11/05/2008 @ 12:47pm
So many thoughts went through my mind last night as the clock turned to 11 and MSNBC projected Barack Obama the 44th President of the United States. I hoped there was a heaven so that Dr. King, LBJ, Bobby and Jack Kennedy and the thousands of people who bled and died for civil rights could see the culmination of their efforts come true in 40 years since the struggle truly began. I was grateful that Teddy Kennedy, who spent the majority of his life fighting for the rights of those without power, lived to see this day. I thought of all the other seminal moments of my lifetime: the Kennedy assassinations, the King assassination, the church burnings in Mississippi, Rosa Parks, the bridge in Selma, the I have a Dream speech…Neil Armstrong's first step on the moon, Watergate and so many more flashed through my head in a kaleidoscope of images both positive and negative. I missed my mother, who wanted to cast her vote for not only America's, but the Western World's, first black leader. I am awed by the changes we have seen and the brightness of our future. Let this be the first major step in ending the race war in this country; let us always give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Let us judge, if we must, people for who they are, not what they look like. I'm so happy this happened in my lifetime and I am humbled to be a small part of making history!
Posted by xnyaukgirl at 11/05/2008 @ 12:53pm
Well, Obama's victory does two things right off the bat:
It exposes the "Bradley Effect" as the myth it is, a bunch of sour grapes invented by self flagellators bent on blaming a black failure on white racism. One never knows what a voter will do until he enters the booth, and polls, on which this effect was based, only tell so much. It also(hopefully) puts to bed this nonsense about America being a racist nation, another myth perpetrated by the finger wagglers designed to make us proudly hang our heads in shame. If we were, really, Obama would not be where he is right now after so short a period of our history: His victory would be decades away.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 12:57pm
Anyone who thinks Israel isn't having a quiet little party is deluding themselves. Obama is as beholden to AIPAC as McCain, and will do nothing meaningful to bring justice and peace to that troubled region.
Posted by BurlingameRT at 11/05/2008 @ 1:16pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 11/05/2008 @ 1:10pm
I thought you'd packed your bags. Good to see your sticking around. Then again I don't know where you would go. Now we get to see how he governs. He at least made a call to you who didn't vote for him to help him govern last night. Take heart in that.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/05/2008 @ 1:19pm
nice to see you've calmed down, larry.
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/05/2008 @ 1:23pm
he only got 52% of the vote, chip......
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/05/2008 @ 1:27pm
Welcome aboard, Mr. Thornton, clean uniform & all.
Posted by Sorelish at 11/05/2008 @ 1:34pm
I want to echo the thoughts of everyone who points out what an historic moment this in our history. Electing the Western World's first black leader is something that we should all be incredibly proud of, regardless of party. Though I was disappointed to hear the boos during McCain's speech, I was extremely happy to hear the applause when McCain congratulated Obama for his historic achievement.
At the same time, I think one poster's criticism of the far right was unintentionally apt. One of the party's failings, especially in this election, is that it has been far too narrow and divisive. What Obama should stand for, and has promised to stand for, is a politics that transcends those kind of divisive boundaries and seeks new, creative solutions to problems. Those solutions shouldn't just be sought from one party, nor should the conversation solely take place within one party. Obama has a mandate to govern, no doubt about that, but to govern in a way that displaces the narrowness that the voters rejected with a far more inclusive approach.
I can't say I agree with every Democrat or liberal on this board, but I tip my cap to Obama and look forward to an excellent political conversation over the next four years.
Posted by Thrawn at 11/05/2008 @ 1:34pm
Enjoy your moment in the sun. Four years from now, especially after the liberal Congress does its damage (with or without Obama's help), the American people will be so angry and disenchanted, that the the backlash will begin. When America realizes how "spreading the wealth around" punishes those who produce and rewards those who don't, they will rebel. When they see that negotiating unconditionally with terrorist nations like Iran brings chaos and not stability, they will rebel. When they observe liberal justices appointed to the Supreme Court by Obama, trashing the Constitution, they will rebel. It's coming folks. And when it does, your blood pressure will rise and you'll scream and swear. But don't worry...it will all be OK.
Posted by rick_king at 11/05/2008 @ 1:37pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 11/05/2008 @ 1:10pm
I am somewhat shocked.
But heartened.
Good on yer, Larry.
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 1:40pm
SORELISH
Well, thanks (not quite sure what you mean, but thanks..I guess) ;)
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 1:57pm
"Things which you do not hope happen more frequently than things which you do hope"
Posted by lvliberty1 at 11/05/2008 @ 1:10pm
Nice post, Lvl. A very nice post. Hopefully, other conservatives will adopt your attitude. It can only help our nation...and right now, our nation needs ALL of its citizens to pull together.
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 2:03pm
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 1:57pm
I graciously accept your thanks & look forward to the oncoming discussions.
Posted by Sorelish at 11/05/2008 @ 2:09pm
I'm just thoroughly amazed that a man can be elected President with a campaign based on nothing more than mindless platitudes about hope and change. Let's see what actually happens now that he has to turn rhetoric into action.
Posted by homerjelwood at 11/05/2008 @ 2:16pm
Posted by xnyaukgirl at 11/05/2008
That was beautiful.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 2:29pm
it's people like you, rick king, who severely try the patience. negotiating without preconditions does not equal negotiating unconditionally. negotiating necessarily implies conditions, doesn't it, rick? but i don't expect you to wrap your brain around that level of complexity.
the "trashing the constitution" and apoplexy sections of your post are obvious projection, rick.
as for the rest of your post, i'd encourage you to keep it up. post constantly and everywhere. it is people like you that helped obama to win.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 2:30pm
"The controlling neo-con, right wing of the Republican party should recognize that their divisive, hateful and self-righteous ideology is not welcomed here anymore.
Let's hope they and their fascist poster girl will just go home. You would think they would understand ...
But ... they'll come back wearing different clothes and they'll preach their brand of ugly and selective democracy.
We can never let our guard down again."
Hoot, you do get the irony of your post don't you? Yikes.
Posted by mahatmakanejeeves at 11/05/2008 @ 2:30pm
you're welcome acook. for years now, i've enjoyed your contributions to the discussion here.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 2:35pm
Truthman...Thank you. I'm new to the site, but not the ideals...call me an eternal optimist, but I like the world through my rose colored glasses.
Posted by xnyaukgirl at 11/05/2008 @ 2:40pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 11/05/2008 @ 1:56pm
Well, you were rather incendiary there.
But hey, "good news" is that McCain didn't pick Romney and win! No "Temple Mormons" in the WH, huh?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 2:45pm
Posted by rick_king at 11/05/2008 @ 1:37pm
You appear to be an extremist. You will never see reality from that perspective. I don't mean to pry, but, are you a recovering crack addict? Your rant reminds of one of those poor unfortunate souls.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 2:49pm
Posted by xnyaukgirl at 11/05/2008 @ 2:40pm
Ain't nuthin wrong with rose colored glasses. I am a bit new myself (few months)you will find interesting people here, such as "The Watchtowers" of progressive thought; a.k.a Frosty Zoom, I'm nobody, Maskdelta, Chip, LoveLoki, Cccomfoi, and many more. I have learned a great deal from these folks and am sure you will also.
Posted by Truthman at 11/05/2008 @ 2:56pm
Truthman, thank you for the welcome! I look forward to the journey...horizons are always meant to be expanded.
Posted by xnyaukgirl at 11/05/2008 @ 3:03pm
What to take away from yesterday's election? The certainty that one lying SOB will be replaced by another. That's it in a nutshell. There'll be lots of rationalizing and squirming among the credulous in the months to come as al Malaki pulls Obama's chestnuts out of the fire by kicking us out of Iraq (otherwise we'll be there until the cows come home) and Afghanistan turns into every bit the horror that Iraq has been once Obama escalates troop levels and the violence there as he's promised. And don't expect much comfort from the fact that he'll have even the foggiest about what to do with an economy about to lurch into Phase II of the doldrums with a credit card crisis shutting down consumer purchases, unemployment at 12% and the Dow at 6000. He won't. "Bringing people together" isn't likely to solve problems like that any more than the bailout he just recently supported. Obama will be simply a creature of events, not their master.
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 3:04pm
"This has continually been a one-way street. Israel was not even in the territories until 1967, under constant threat of annihilation Israel saw the need to have a buffer of defense."
the 250,000 illegal settlers, are they a buffer of defense?
your one sided polemics fool no one. you are a likudnik.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 3:26pm
thanks truthman! like you, i have learned from so many of the people who post here. this is my favorite website. there are some who have not been here for awhile. i miss their voices.
i would like to also welcome you, xnyaukgirl. it is thrilling and heartening that obama is our new president. last night was a lovely version of shock and awe. this morning, tears of joy.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 3:27pm
the west bank a buffer? nonsense. the west bank borders on Jordan, a country which does not threaten Israel.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 3:30pm
hello johannesrolf. good to see you're still here. i've always found your comments incisive, entertaining and educational.
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 3:36pm
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 12:57pm
Hold on a minute Chip...Can we look at this a little more critically please?!?!! Obama's election doesn't prove anything about the Bradley effect...It does prove that the Bradley effect didn't cost Obama this election. This is great news, but are you actually saying that the Bradley effect played no role in Tom Bradley's loss in 1982? 1982 dude!!! In 1989 a former grand wizard of the KKK was elected to Louisiana's House of Representatives... And then came damn close to becomming Louisiana's Governor in 1991!!! If you think Obama's win has finally proved that our country has cleansed itself of hundreds of years of deeply ingrained racism that has rooted itself in many of our institutions... Cracka Please!!!
Posted by ADHD at 11/05/2008 @ 3:47pm
Posted by loveloki at 11/05/2008 @ 3:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person
thanks, doll. my spouse too was in tears for the entire evening.
I would like to dedicate this victory to Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner.
we stand on the shoulders of giants.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 3:48pm
Posted by ADHD at 11/05/2008 @ 3:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Bradley's election manager debunked the Bradley effect not long ago.
the second part of your post is correct. we have come a long way, but we have far to go. how many blacks in the congress? very, very few. governors?
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 3:56pm
I don't have much to add, except to state that the rationale for affirmative action is gone. P.S. I'm new to this board, but have to say that you guys are a hell of a lot smarter and more civil than the posters at dailykos. Those guys are deranged.
Posted by stickyshift at 11/05/2008 @ 4:00pm
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 3:04pm
One last flailing of the arms, Looney?
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/05/2008 @ 4:02pm
BTW, in case ANYBODY cares...
despite all of looney lowell's hard work-
"Nader received 641,044 votes or 1% percent of the vote."---wikipedia.org
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/05/2008 @ 4:10pm
Posted by stickyshift at 11/05/2008 @ 4:00pm
Give us time!
heheh
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/05/2008 @ 4:11pm
lemme tell ya somethin'- ronald reagan committed a horrible disservice by defanging the federal government- there are certain things a strong central government is needed for, and reagan simply dismissed government services as "big government"and blamed all of societies ills on "big government." well, look around and see where less government and deregulation has gotten us- no coherent energy policy, a broken healthcare system, a corrupt banking and financial system run by greed instead of commonsense, a weakened OSHA, an inept FDA, and a rotting infrastructure. we need a strong central government that can marshall the resources to achieve our social goals and protect those of us who need assistance. of course the smug self absorbed intellectually gifted neo-cons like the kagans and the kristols will likely argue otherwise, but their view of the world is xenophobic, conspiratorial, and self-righteous, and if nothing else, barack obamas victory is the first step in revitalizing an active, progressive and reformist central government that will give this country back to its rightful owners, we the people.
Posted by jakey at 11/05/2008 @ 4:15pm
Simply amazing ACOOK.
After two eight-year Republican Administrations, the Republican Revolution in 1994, and the Contract With America, the U.S. economy was simply helpless against the evil machinations of put into place by Jimmy Carter.
Posted by Hman23 at 11/05/2008 @ 4:34pm
ADCD, Emile
Need to ask how many blacks are in Congress relative to their population percentage. Otherwise, unfair question.
I'm not sure "how far we have to go" or how we'll know when we are "there", Emile. Does that mean when there are no more people AT ALL who drag innocent black men behind their trucks? As an Obama supporter, I resent, and the public in general would too, I think, being lumped into the same category with that guy. And how about the millions of people over hundreds of years who lived their whole lives and never did anything to another man because of his race or ethnicity. You think people are racists just because they may have a penchant for living with their own? It's their right to feel that way, provided they don't let predjudice turn to liberty-restricting racism, and there is a difference.
We've spent far to much wasted time in self flagellation over the past few years. Not healthy self examination like in the '60's but beating ourselves over our history: Not sensible. I'm hoping the inspiration Obama will deliver to the people will enable us to finally consign the wedge diving Jesse Jacksons of the world to the history heap, finally so we can move on.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 4:44pm
After two eight-year Republican Administrations, the Republican Revolution in 1994, and the Contract With America, the U.S. economy was simply helpless against the evil machinations of put into place by Jimmy Carter.
Posted by Hman23 at 11/05/2008 @ 4:34pm |
*I* thought it was great parody of the typical Republican tactic of blaming Clinton or the media or... You mean he was serious?
Posted by Balrog at 11/05/2008 @ 4:45pm
Without intending to rain on your parade, as a Canadian I can't help but wince every time I hear Americans, including Barack Obama, say "This could only happen in America."
Canada had its first woman prime minister decades ago, we've never had slaves, we've had universal health care for more that half a century, and we've never had a bloody civil war.
From where I sit, it would appear to me that the USA is a nation of slow learners.
Having said that. I, along with most of my fellow Canadians, join you in the celebration of the election of your first African-American president. We only hope that, among other things, he can stifle AIPAC, become an honest peace broker in the Occupied Territories, pull the troops out of Iraq and resist the temptation to widen the war in Afghanistan.
Good luck.
Posted by fwhite at 11/05/2008 @ 5:03pm
Posted by Hman23 at 11/05/2008 @ 4:34pm
I'm gonna tell you like I told C3, this mess had to start somewhere, so why not at the beginning?
Don't worry though, I'm warming my son's frat paddle for you too.... :-)
And I'm going to enjoy every minute of it.
Posted by ACook at 11/05/2008 @ 5:06pm
Obama should be bold. I would suggest he, and you, read Ron Paul's book "A Foreign Policy of Peace". A commitment to non-violence. A commitment to never using torture. A commitment to working with every nation. A commitment to bnringing all our troops home. A commitment to closing our military bases overseas forever. I know Ron Paul and his followers are dismissed as cranks, wackos, and right wing conservatives. It is all wrong. The overlap between our core beliefs and the beliefs of the liberal left is the basis for a coalition that could bring real change to our world.
Posted by H-daddy at 11/05/2008 @ 5:41pm
Glad to see Yankee Doodle came around and voted against the barbarians who have held the world in a stranglehold for the past eight years.
And for all those imbeciles who voted for McCain, well, go screw. The US has officially entered the 21st century and infected not just its citizens with hope, but the rest of the world as well. While I know the election of an African America will bring mongrel assortment of fundamentalists, racists, extremists and lunatics with 19th century values out of the woodwork, I hope they wake up to see the reality of their colorful and diverse country and the world it resides in.
Only one of every five people on this ignoble ball is white, while only one in three is Christian. Yankee Doodle is a minority on God's earth. It's a shame more Americans can't share in the global celebration over this historic election because they fear their own brothers...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/05/2008 @ 6:07pm
Lets not only help him, lets make sure he does what he was elected for. If the last election was any indication, the democrats have let us down many times, too many, this is the last chance.
Posted by pachonegro at 11/05/2008 @ 6:13pm
Lets not only help him, lets make sure he does what he was elected for. If the last election was any indication, the democrats have let us down many times, too many, this is the last chance.
Posted by pachonegro at 11/05/2008 @ 6:14pm
"Canada had its first woman prime minister decades ago, we've never had slaves, we've had universal health care for more that half a century, and we've never had a bloody civil war. From where I sit, it would appear to me that the USA is a nation of slow learners."
Canada went to the moon first. Canadians invented the PC, Canada defeated Japan and Germany. O Canada
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 7:05pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/05/2008 @ 4:02pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/05/2008 @ 4:10pm
Please, please, help me to feel comfortable that you'll make this your last post here Mr. Lowell. After all, this is My blog, just mine, not yours, darn it. You've made me feel so stupid and oafish over the last several months that sometimes I feel mad enough to spit. I'd hate it if you stuck around and kept making little of me, my ideas and my political preferences. I know I'm not really smart enough to defend myself with any real skill. All I can do is to try to set people up with leading questions - and that's just too transparent of course - or whistle past the graveyard by LOL or tee-heeing which gives away my level of emotional maturity and only makes things worse. If you went away, nobody would point these things out and I could tee-hee like a laughing hyena. Please, Mr. Lowell, I'm begging you. Please tell me what your plans are.
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 7:37pm
Posted by chimichenga at 11/05/2008 @ 6:07pm
Yep, maybe Obama can do something about ex-pat middle-class American kids who exploit the local Latin American handicrafters to live their "bohemian lifestyle"?!?!?!?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 7:46pm
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 7:37pm
No..please...stick around.
We've a slight drop-off in bitchy, whiney right-wingers lately.
We could use your vital perspective.
Oh and Nader only 200K more votes this time and at 78, any serious consideration of him is over.
So...no 2012 in your future either!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 7:50pm
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 7:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
it's not all about you, bub
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 7:57pm
I hope the idealism that Katerina expresses so eloquently comes to pass and is manifested with concrete programs and policies. But I worry a little bit about this for two reasons: 1. Obama's announced policies on issues like health care, for example, while certainly laudable in providing a wider net, is still short of providing healthcare for all and financing this through private insurance seems doomed to failure because it doesn't deal with the cost issues efficiently, the way single payer insurance would. I could go on and talk about the policies on Iraq and the too strong support of Israel (which is essentially depriving Palestinians of their human rights) all as evidence that Mr. Obama might not be as open as we would hope. 2. The second reason I worry is because he is not getting any hateful attacks from the real power structure in this country, which would be threatened by truly progressive legislation. FDR was mercilessly attacked and called a traitor to his class for doing what he did--and to think he saved capitalism--you would have guessed these people would have been grateful. They were not though. While there were some nasty campaign attacks, there doesn't seem to be any fear in the corporate world of an Obama presidency and this has me worried. Why can't we have truly universal healthcare? Only because there are people who profit from a system where it is privatized--they could care less about the people who are excluded. It is when these people complain that I will truly see Obama's potential for being a transformative President. FDR and Lyndon Johnson both made huge strides in making the economy much fairer--if Obama is going to appoint people like Lawrence Summers--well, how much difference is there between this man and Alan Greenspan?
Posted by Erik at 11/05/2008 @ 8:11pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=Erik
give the guy a chance to govern.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 8:18pm
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 3:56pm
Debunked it as it relates to Obama. As you'll notice I said it didn't hurt Obama (if it doesn't affect the outcome, then it doesn't apply). Please show me proof that it didn't hurt Tom Bradley in 1982. You can't anymore than I can show you proof that it did.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/05/2008 @ 4:44pm Chip, WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IN THIS POST? I AM MERELY SAYING THAT THERE IS INSTITUTIONAL RACISM THAT DOESN'T MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR JUST BECAUSE A BLACK GUY TAKES OFFICE. WHAT IF ALAN KEYES WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT? IS RACISM SOLVED???!!!!!
Posted by ADHD at 11/05/2008 @ 8:23pm
"Please show me proof that it didn't hurt Tom Bradley in 1982. You can't anymore than I can show you proof that it did."
Bradley's election manager had an op ed piece in the N Ytimes recently. you can look it up. he debunked the myth. I presume he knows more about it than you.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/05/2008 @ 8:35pm
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 7:50pm
"We've a slight drop-off in bitchy, whiney right-wingers lately."
Well, might we suggest your withdrawing to compensate? But then again balance would only be achieved by the withdrawal of bitchy, whiney progressives, and you're no progressive, eh, Maskedca-ca? Why I don't even think "bitchy, whiney" fits. Dull-witted and rather pedestrian, perhaps, but not bitchy, whiney. Bitchy, whiney requires the presence of genuine affect, and you're just dumb to feel. But don't let any of that keep you from finding the door, little guy.
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 9:47pm
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 9:47pm
You left out "Nana-boo-boo! I am rubber, you are glue..."
ROFL!
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 10:09pm
Posted by Erik at 11/05/2008 @ 8:11pm |
Troll, or? As they say in aerobics, and neurotic grounding exercises -- don't forget to breathe!
--------- --------- ---------
Man, this blog is a magnet for imploding neocons. There's a threshold they occasionally reach where Reality threatens. Actual-reality starts to crack their fragile little Limbaugh-reality eggshells. Their immature amalgam of half truths starts to give way.
Fortunately, those witnessing all this are sometimes treated to the most magnificent, *true believer seizure dance*.
Lots of hostile flailing. Lots of deception, even more self deception.
Posted by winyahn at 11/05/2008 @ 11:32pm
Posted by Mask at 11/05/2008 @ 10:09pm
Getting tired, Maskedca-ca? Am I starting to wear you out? Sure sounds and feels like it, little guy. I don't think you've got the stomach for this anymore. And you were so cocky when it started. You're just a steaming pile of crap, Mask, and I'll always be around to explain that to you.
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 11:42pm
I note that this so-called "transformational" new administration has just appointed Rahm Emanuel as, of all things, Obama's Chief Of Staff! Obama's very first appointment and its AIPAC operative Rahm Emanuel? And you worried when Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby held influencial positions? Sure didn't take AIPAC long to get its hands on Obama's throat, did it? What, one day? You can forget "change" in the Middle East.
Posted by john lowell at 11/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
Do you ever notice how you crazy Marxist/Leninist/Socialist types engage in so much name calling? Seems to me to be a case of frustration because you can't come up with any good counter-arguments. You're supposed to be educated, intelligent people, but most of the time you never quite get around to addressing any of the issues this country faces. For instance, isolationism appears to be big on your agenda. Doesn't work. Soaking the most successful entrepreneurs and innovators in our society...the ones creating the jobs...is popular. Doesn't help. Being soft on Islamic Fascists. Dead end. You just don't get it. Like I said before, these unworkable ideas will leave the American people disenchanted, and four years from now will come the backlash. The only hope is that Obama is smart enough to abandon some of his more extreme left-wing promises and lead the country more from the center.
Posted by rick_king at 11/06/2008 @ 12:13am
hi chimi and hman!
:)
i noticed you have been commenting once in awhile hman. it was especially nice to see your comments when the boards were drowning in right wing insanity over the past few months.
thanks for the perspective chimi.
Posted by loveloki at 11/06/2008 @ 12:49am
"Like I said before, these unworkable ideas will leave the American people disenchanted, and four years from now will come the backlash."
Posted by rick_king at 11/06/2008 @ 12:13am
Brilliant!
Let's see.
The Dems just increased their majorities in the Senate and House significantly.
The Dems now hold the White House.
Is this the backlash of which you speak?
Posted by Benchrest at 11/06/2008 @ 01:29am
No, the one in four years
Posted by rick_king at 11/06/2008 @ 02:07am
I'm just a bit confused and plain POed: irrelevant and effete, seeking improvement, the amoebic Nation in its bloaty abode is dreaming of a sweeping, big b-movement.
Posted by WWW at 11/06/2008 @ 04:22am
Really, ADHD, must learn to control your passions.
Sorry, but I stand by my staement. We've gotten absolutely absurd about racism, and its time to move on.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/06/2008 @ 07:13am
From where I sit, it would appear to me that the USA is a nation of slow learners.
Posted by fwhite at 11/05/2008 @ 5:03pm
It's really hard to shake that British influence that runs through your veins isn't it? It's okey, we still love ya. LOL
Posted by Truthman at 11/06/2008 @ 07:17am
Posted by jakey at 11/05/2008 @ 4:15pm
I strongly disagree with part of your post. I have yet to interact with an exceptionally gifted intellectual neocon. Acook is the closest I've come. Ha
Posted by Truthman at 11/06/2008 @ 07:20am
Sorry, but I stand by my staement. We've gotten absolutely absurd about racism, and its time to move on.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 11/06/2008
I hear what ya sayin, but, I live in the very bowels of racism, the deep south. In fact I heard a joke the other day that I hadn't heard in 20+ years. "Know how you get a "N" out of a tree in Mississippi? Cut the rope." Told to a group of white men in our court house. And it got a laugh.
I think that we will see an increase in racism before it gets better.
Posted by Truthman at 11/06/2008 @ 07:38am
I hope you're correct Darin.
Posted by Truthman at 11/06/2008 @ 08:41am
rick-king-I don't notice any difference in name calling based on political views and neither do you.Try honesty.
Posted by i'm nobody at 11/06/2008 @ 08:56am
That means the Liberal MO of "Hey, we fooled the voters into electing us. Let's ram through as much change as possible before they figure out what they've done" isn't a path to progress.-------Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/06/2008 @ 08:27am
Wasn't that what happened between 2001 and 2006??!!?!??
Posted by Mask at 11/06/2008 @ 08:56am
Lots of us who'd labored for the Obama campaign sat and watched the tube on election night at a pub frequented by local politicos. The McCain states built up a little at a time. Then Virginia was called for Barack--and we let out a collective hoot. Seconds later the West coast polls closed, then CNN declared an Obama victory. People hugged and tears flowed.
A friend of mine nearby in Washington had been at a similar get together. He headed down toward the White House where he noticed people gathering. They were there singing the national anthem, crying, praying, loving "the moment" until at least 2:00 the next morning. So those of you on the "right," trying to find some excuse to downgrade the Obama victory, you're gonna have a tough time doing so. I've gotten "thank yous" from three continents so far via e-mail and telephone. Explain that, you pessimist GOPphiles.
Posted by TimParcival at 11/06/2008 @ 09:23am
Humble in victory. Gracious in defeat. At least we saw that from both candidates. Not exactly reflective in the dialogue on this board.
Posted by roywally at 11/06/2008 @ 09:39am
" the reason why the hijackers attacked America on 9/11 WAS the one-sidedness it had with Israel"
no, mystic.
while that is an underlying factor in the hostility with which the US is regarded by the muslim world, the casus belli for Bin Laden was the presence of American troops in Saudi.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 10:04am
WHAT - A GREAT - PIECE !!!
I feel like a great dark cloud has been lifted from over our heads, after eight looong years !!!!!!!!!
While we savour the victory, ALL of us need to KEEP THE ELECTED OFFICIAL'S, FEET TO THE FIRE AT-ALL-TIMES, by writing or sending E-Mails, reminding them about, WE THE PEOPLE'S BASIC CONCERNS that need to be urgently addressed.
Posted by Mad As Hell at 11/06/2008 @ 1:53pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/06/2008 @ 11:59am
Seem to forget things like ....Terri Schiavo....or "Brownie the horse lawyer" running FEMA....or closed-door, need a warrent to learn the players Energy Task-forces (here's where you bring up Hillary and don't answer)....privatizing Social Security....etc....etc....etc.
And you also seem to forget that Bush had support for SOME kind ot tax cut among folks like....oh.....John McCain...
but what he PROPOSED was opposed by some of them!
Posted by Mask at 11/06/2008 @ 1:55pm
Parital privatization is the best option available, just like his campaign promise. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/06/2008 @ 2:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person
if social security had been privatized, all the money would now be gone with the financial meltdown.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 2:39pm
The militarism of American society is vastly overstated,
really? half the discretionary spending is military. our military budget dwarfs that of all other nations combined.
the troll is a fool. begone you twit.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 2:41pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/06/2008 @ 3:08pm
That denyiing civil rights is still possible....absolutely.
Jim Crow didn't fall in a day or a year.
Posted by Maskdelta at 11/06/2008 @ 3:31pm
RIP GOP. The tide has turned for long, long time.
Posted by rmjlattanzi at 11/06/2008 @ 4:57pm
He is the man of hope. Then he breaks his first promise to accept public campaign financing. He is the man of change then his first two picks to run his white house and transition are to old time democratic diehards that are known as Clinton pitbulls.
He is a Chicago politician. I am only screwed. You are screwed, abused, misused and complete fools.
Posted by wredner at 11/06/2008 @ 5:46pm
I am only screwed, abused, misused and a complete fool. Posted by wredner at 11/06/2008 @ 5:46pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 6:02pm
contained in some etherial penumbra that only Liberals can read? Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/06/2008 @ 6:39pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Did you mean: ethereal
hahahahaha. if yer gonna use big woids, learn to spell.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 7:19pm
If the Bush administration or later the Obama administration, bailout the big three. Every taxpayer should get the keys to a new car!
Posted by bleedingheart at 11/06/2008 @ 7:43pm
for the hundredth time. there is a church marriage and there is a civil marriage. the latter is a civil contract, and as such cannot discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. let the gays have their civil marriage and let the church people do what they will. to call the civil union between gays marriage does not threaten church marriages in any way. to let the church people decide is unamerican, violating the separation of church and state.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/06/2008 @ 8:45pm
Katrina Vanden Huevel,
WHAT'S TO CELEBRATE:::::
I would like to say that Senator McCain and then Senator Obama were instrumental in helping Bush pass the single most destructive policy agenda in modern world history. Witness the below policies and actions that Bush has enacted/signed into law that Obama and McCain both vigorously supported and helped pass in the U.S. Senate:
700 BILLION DOLLAR Wall Street Bailout for crooked CEOs, Hedge Fund Managers and Bankers-both McCain and Obama lobbied and VOTED FOR IT.
War on Terror, Afghan and Iraq Wars which are killing innocent civilians by the thousands - both Senator McCain and then Senator Obama voted to continue funding them
FISA/illegal spying on Americans Bill-Both Obama and McCain voted for it
Renewed Unconstitutional Patriot Act- Both McCain and Obama voted for it
Amendment aimed at Capping credit Card Interest Rates at 30 percent-Both McCain and Obama voted AGAINST IT. ( I wonder if we can find any Americans who will tell you with a straight face that they would rather pay 40 percent interest or more on a credit card vice a cap of 30 percent)
Death Penalty-Both Obama and McCain support it
As you can see, unless you actually support this agenda, there is ABSOLUTELY NO LOGIC TO HAVING VOTED FOR EITHER BARACK OBAMA OR JOHN McCAIN. Just goes to show you that no matter what a politician actually does while in office, the end result is always the same, AMERICANS end up voting against THEIR OWN POLITICAL, SOCIAL, AND ECONOMIC INTERESTS.
Katrina, THANKS FOR SELLING OUT PEOPLE WHO TRULY WANTED REAL CHANGE THAT THEY COULD BELIEVE IN...................
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/07/2008 @ 12:50am
Katrina Vanden Huevel,
WHAT'S TO CELEBRATE:::::
I would like to say that Senator McCain and then Senator Obama were instrumental in helping Bush pass the single most destructive policy agenda in modern world history. Witness the below policies and actions that Bush has enacted/signed into law that Obama and McCain both vigorously supported and helped pass in the U.S. Senate:
700 BILLION DOLLAR Wall Street Bailout for crooked CEOs, Hedge Fund Managers and Bankers-both McCain and Obama lobbied and VOTED FOR IT.
War on Terror, Afghan and Iraq Wars which are killing innocent civilians by the thousands - both Senator McCain and then Senator Obama voted to continue funding them
FISA/illegal spying on Americans Bill-Both Obama and McCain voted for it
Renewed Unconstitutional Patriot Act- Both McCain and Obama voted for it
Amendment aimed at Capping credit Card Interest Rates at 30 percent-Both McCain and Obama voted AGAINST IT. ( I wonder if we can find any Americans who will tell you with a straight face that they would rather pay 40 percent interest or more on a credit card vice a cap of 30 percent)
Death Penalty-Both Obama and McCain support it
As you can see, unless you actually support this agenda, there is ABSOLUTELY NO LOGIC TO HAVING VOTED FOR EITHER BARACK OBAMA OR JOHN McCAIN. Just goes to show you that no matter what a politician actually does while in office, the end result is always the same, AMERICANS end up voting against THEIR OWN POLITICAL, SOCIAL, AND ECONOMIC INTERESTS.
Katrina, THANKS FOR SELLING OUT PEOPLE WHO TRULY WANTED REAL CHANGE THAT THEY COULD BELIEVE IN...................
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/07/2008 @ 12:50am
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/07/2008 @ 08:17am | ignore this person | warn this person
this is just sophistry, homophobic sophistry at that.
you're so full of crap, you stink to high heaven.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/07/2008 @ 11:13am
I'll take that as your concession speach. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/07/2008 @ 11:29am | ignore this person | warn this person
speach? hahahahahaha, are you dumb. hahahahahha
maybe you meant peach?
Posted by emile duBois at 11/07/2008 @ 12:02pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/07/2008 @ 11:29am
You entirely miss the point.
There is legal (the laws on the books currently, or in the future).
Then there is constitutional. The ideals the laws are supposed to reflect.
While banning gay marriage may be legal, I defy you to argue how those laws do not violate the fourteenth amendment.
Marriage, in this country grants you specific legal status and rights. Gays are thus deprived of these rights.
How is this constitutional again?
Eric
(PS off topic and all....but i find your posts, labeled with the moniker "troll" to be far less annoying then when you used your family's names).
Posted by Malcontent at 11/07/2008 @ 12:10pm
Unfortunately, all these DOMA-laws don't only harm GLBT pairings, they also have the potential to harm heterosexual partnerships outside the boundaries of (church-sponsored) marriage, such as cohabitation:
A couple who live together (in some cases, for decades) outside of the boundaries of marriage, have affection for each other, but cannot/will not marry because of church doctrine (dissolution of marriage at death of former spouse) can be not recognized by DOMA laws/marriage amendments, and therefore not have the rights to leave property to each other, include their companion on medical/life insurance coverage, speak on the others' behalf in medical emergency, and so on.
It's a slippery slope when church-sanctioned ceremony gets too closely tied into civil affairs.
Posted by javaman222 at 11/07/2008 @ 2:05pm
It's a slippery slope when church-sanctioned ceremony gets too closely tied into civil affairs. Posted by javaman222 at 11/07/2008 @ 2:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person
yes it is. in Italy for instance divorce was illegal, which made life miserable for many, many people.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/07/2008 @ 3:29pm
"I hear what ya sayin, but, I live in the very bowels of racism, the deep south. In fact I heard a joke the other day that I hadn't heard in 20+ years. "Know how you get a "N" out of a tree in Mississippi? Cut the rope." Told to a group of white men in our court house. And it got a laugh.
I think that we will see an increase in racism before it gets better."
I agree.
I am from Deep South and it is still the same and always will be....
that being said, we have a chance to transform this country now...for the better..for a change....
let's help Obama get things done so we aren't back at square one in 2012.....
there needs to be transparency and accountability now...
as an Obama supporter, it is what we are all promised, at the very least, for govt. to be accountable and responsible to the people...
I don't want to say "mandate" because that is what dubya had when he squandered it and dems took over...and he did nothing but pass all sorts of anti-environmental laws....
Number one: Obama should reverse all these recent bush signings and allow california to institute its' own emissions regulations that bush vetoed....
and give more power to states...
second: allow "alternative" energy such as geothermal, wind, solar to be treated as "public utilities"
ironically, right now they are not, while cell towers are.....in our federal policy....
etc, etc....there are a number of things obama can do "on day one"....and seek help from everybody on both sides....
smart growth intiatives such as training students for "green" careers in construction etc...and more tax incentives for solar power, residential at a federal level is crucial.....
states cannot do everything themselves...and when they ask for help, bush has just vetoed them...
Posted by jrs112 at 11/07/2008 @ 3:32pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 11/07/2008 @ 1:04pm
Your logic is still flawed. Are you saying it's ok for me to hire gays, as long as they're lesbians? Or not hire them? Or rent to them? Or enter into any contractual obligation with them? This would be constitutional?
What part of "marriage grants individuals extra rights as a couple" doesn't bring up 14th amendment issues?
Why do you persist in using your personal opinions/biases and historical anecdotes to add wording, which doesn't exist to existing laws.
Prop.8 is totally unconstitutional, as it gives me access to special rights That gays have no access to. Your examples of paraplegics in the military etc. are bogus. Heterosexuals are no more qualified to sign that contract, then I. Or you.
If I marry, I will have no children. Many married couples children would be happier if they divorced. Should I be banned from marriage?
And, yes,any such law should get judicial scrutiny. They are all discriminatory.
Posted by Malcontent at 11/07/2008 @ 7:00pm
If voting for a president partially because he is white is wrong, then it is equally wrong to be at all motivated to vote for a candidate because he is black. Obama ran a smart campaign and this was a huge factor in his victory. If he'd made countless blunders like McCain and lost, this would not have proven that racism prevented him from winning. With all the problems facing the U.S. and the world, should we care about the skin color of the president? The answer is a resounding NO. The all encompassing HOPE for CHANGE associated with our president-elect is the most baffling aspect of this entire episode. Obama and McCain are virtually in lockstep re: the bailout, immigration, and foreign policy, perhaps the three most important issues of the day - remember, our new president actually called for a surge in Iraq before Bush did and wants the same for Afghanistan. He is not opposed to wars of choice for reasons other than our defense [the only just reason for war] - its just that he claims to be against this particular conflict in Iraq. Did anyone screaming through the streets on Tuesday night wonder why Obama got so much money from Wall street, corporate America, etc.? God help us.
Posted by johnhackney at 11/07/2008 @ 9:41pm
Obama and McCain are virtually in lockstep re: the bailout, immigration, and foreign policy, perhaps the three most important issues of the day -
this is just not true. and the American people were not fooled.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/07/2008 @ 11:04pm