Last Monday, well over 300 Vermonters packed City Hall in downtown Burlington. It was standing room only with every seat on the floor and in the balcony occupied. The occasion was a town hall meeting with Senator Bernie Sanders, a forum he thoroughly enjoys and frequently hosts throughout the state because, as he said later, "it brings the government close to the people."

Ambassador Pekka Lintu of Finland was the guest speaker. Sanders invited him because he wants his constituents to know about a country that has quality universal healthcare, free childcare, free college education, employment benefits unimaginable to most American workers, virtually no childhood poverty, and one of the most competitive economies in the world. While Sanders anticipated a good turnout, the actual attendance exceeded his expectation. "It shows," he would later say, "that people are hungry to hear about alternative visions to the way we are doing things in this country."

Neither Lintu nor Sanders denied the differences between the US and Finland – in population, size, and diversity. "Yet as we acknowledge the difference we should also acknowledge that we are all human beings with very much the same DNA, the same kind of intelligence and the same human needs," Sanders said. "Is there something that we can learn from [Finland's] model?"

Lintu is a striking presence – tall and debonair. (One woman in the audience joked that he was "Finland's best evidence of the quality of its healthcare system.") But while Sanders has a straightforward, fearless style that his constituents have grown accustomed to, Lintu has a dry sense of humor and is soft-spoken. So much so that as he began his remarks several audience members called out for him to speak louder. Lintu finally joked, "Finns are rather non-talkative people, rather known as shy people. We say that you can know the difference between an introverted Finn and an extroverted Finn. An introverted Finn, when he talks to you, he's looking at his own shoes. An extroverted Finn, when he's talking to you, he's looking at your shoes."

Lintu spoke openly of some of the challenges now facing his country – an aging population, a need for alternative energy, unemployment just under 6 percent, alcohol that is "still a mythic thing for young people." There was an economic crisis in the early 90's when unemployment rose from 4 percent to 17 percent in just two years. Lintu said that Finns by no means enjoy paying taxes – the total taxes per capita were 43.1 percent in 2007 – but they do enjoy what they get for their money. It allows for stability and confidence in planning a family, and for adjusting to the pressures of a global economy.

Lintu described Finland as both a welfare society and a competitive country. He believes that the strength of the welfare society stems in part from women getting the vote and the right to run for political office in 1906. "The decision to involve women in decision-making [early on] has a lot to do with it," he said. "Maternity and childcare, education, healthcare… many of these issues that are important ‘family issues' I trace back to early involvement and ownership of women in politics."

Today, women in Finland hold 83 of 200 Parliament seats; 12 of 20 cabinet positions; and the presidency.

The keys to Finland's economic success, according to Lintu, are the safety net which help people adapt to the pressures of globalization and change; an education system recognized internationally as one of the best in the world; economic development that uses environmental sustainability as a framework; and good governance – ranked as the "#1 least corrupt government" by Transparency International, a global network that fights government corruption and advocates for reforms. Finland also ranks second in the world in percentage of GDP spent on Research and Development.

Lintu quickly turned the floor over for a Q&A and they fired away. (In fact, two hours later a number of hands would still be in the air when Senator Sanders called it a night. Lintu had spent the day meeting with college students and professors, business and community leaders, labor representatives and activists, and Sanders didn't want to wear out his guest.) Does universal healthcare mean long waiting lists and poor care? Do people fear immigrants inundating the country with different languages and values? How do you create a culture that sees taxes as a positive thing? Does Finland invest in teachers and give them room for creativity in the classroom? Does the government tax greenhouse emissions and how does that impact the economy? How much of the budget is devoted to defense spending? What is the gap between top-paid CEO's and workers? Is there a strong lobbying presence and are campaigns publicly funded? What is Finland's view on globalization?

Lintu said of the healthcare system that waiting lists were indeed a problem for non-urgent operations a few years ago. So the government allowed people to pay a premium for an earlier appointment – for non-emergency operations only and on the doctor's own time, not during regular hours of the free system. This has shortened the queues. Sanders noted that despite healthcare being almost free for everyone, it still "ends up costing about half as much per capita as our system." (Even with almost 50 million people uninsured, the US spends 14 percent of GDP on healthcare, Finland spends 7.5 percent.) As for quality of care – infant mortality is quite low, and the average lifespan is approximately 75 years for men and 82 years for women.

The economic gap between people isn't "enormous…. at least it's on the same planet," and Lintu sees this allocation of resources as important to the success of the welfare society. There are no caps on what people can earn but the very largest corporations pay CEO's 3 to 5 million US dollars. Sanders asked Lintu why CEO's aren't asking for outsized US-style salaries? Lintu said that companies are free to pay what they want to but the CEO's are sometimes criticized for their salaries.

Lintu tied the success of Finland's education system to the holistic approach raising kids. There is maternity leave for 3 months at full-pay, and 7 more months of either maternity or paternity leave at 70 percent of salary. Then a parent is permitted to take two more years – without pay, but with a guaranteed job to return to when the child is three years old. (Sanders contrasted this with the Herculean fight in Congress over the Family Medical Leave Act, which provides three months leave without pay.) For parents who work, states and municipalities are required to provide daycare with accredited staff for every child. When children turn six they are entitled to enroll in pre-school if desired, and compulsory "basic school" begins at age 7, through age 16. The graduation rates are astounding – 99.7 percent complete basic school; 87 percent complete "upper secondary" (ages 16-19); and 70 percent of upper secondary graduates go on to study at a university or polytechnic.

Lintu said it's true that the curriculum is more flexible than in the US, allowing teachers freedom to adapt to the needs of the class. But the nation is perhaps most proud – not of the high-rankings internationally – but that "the system produces a rather egalitarian result, with less than a 5 percent difference in the testing results between the best and worst schools."

And then there are the workers. Imagine, one of the most competitive economies in the world, 80 percent unionized, 30 days paid vacation, 10 national holidays. Sanders noted, "The American worker now works the longest hours of anyone in a major country… many of our families are stressed out and exhausted…. The benefits that workers receive [in Finland]… dwarf what workers in this country receive." As for immigration, the government doesn't view it as a threat, but as one of the possible solutions to the problem of an aging population and the need for skilled labor. There are now 1.7 employed workers to every welfare recipient. Given current population trends, the ratio would be 1:1 in 2030.

What about paying for all of these services? "Well, I think it would be an exaggeration to say that Finns love taxes," Lintu joked. "But taxes are not a bad word…. I think that the success of the system… what you get, a family with two kids… free daycare, free preschool, primary school, high school and university. And then healthcare." Sanders added, "I think the issue is not so much what you pay – it's what you get for what you pay."

The Ambassador and the Senator spent a half-hour continuing to speak with Vermonters after the meeting had adjourned. When his last constituent had left, Sanders reflected on the importance of this gathering. "If you think about human history, the fact that a nation has been able to virtually abolish poverty, take care of its people, and be so competitive – it's amazing. People need to know about it. Agree or disagree, we should learn from it, debate it, and adopt these models where they make sense."

It was a good night in Burlington. A good night for small-d democracy. A good night to express the yearning citizens feel for a better way for America. A good night for looking beyond our own borders for vision, inspiration, and concrete examples of how things are working – and working well – in another nation.

This article was co-authored by Greg Kaufmann, a freelance writer residing in his disenfranchised hometown of Washington, DC.

Comments (41)

1. Bernie Sanders rocks. He's got a website where people of Vermont can access and write how the collapse of the middle class is hurting them. Not in terms of "nationwide hurt" but real stories of how they are directly affected. His plan is to read portions of these on the senate floor. How refreshing! Here in VA, when I contact my senators and house representatives, I get form letters that obviously are mass-mailed. Thelma Drake-R and John Warner-R actually sent me the same darn letter, just on different letterhead and photocopied signature! Jim Webb-D responded to one of my inquiries with a personal letter, thus he's been the exception to the rule.

   Once upon a time, our representatives were all like Bernie Sanders. They were involved with their constituents. Somehow that changed. Granted, they can't meet or respond personally to every single individual, I can understand that, but Bernie seems to go above and beyond. And he's not even a democrat!

   Posted by FritztheCat at 04/05/2008 @ 7:26pm

2. I'm sorry...well not really, but...

   there are three things at the BOTTOM of the list of the "100 Top Influences on American Politics":

   98--- Senator Sanders

   99--- The Finnish

   100--- Vermont town halls

   Perhaps nobody remembers Mr Nichols' constant celebrations of some town council in Newfane or Pickle's Grove or whatever, Vermont "voting for impeachment"....in 2006.

   And then Nancy Pelosi says "off the table" or John Conyers says "elections are our ONLY recourse" and kicks Cindy Sheehan to the curb.

   Posted by Mask at 04/05/2008 @ 8:10pm

3. "Lintu said of the healthcare system that waiting lists were indeed a problem for non-urgent operations a few years ago. So the government allowed people to pay a premium for an earlier appointment – for non-emergency operations only and on the doctor's own time, not during regular hours of the free system."

   Outside of cosmetic surgical procedures, what constitutes a "non-emergency" operation? I'm almost afraid to hear that answer. Another thing that puzzles me, the Finns pay 43.1% in taxes and yet if they need to see a doctor "earlier", they have to pay an additional premium?

   It's funny the bloggers here at the Nation love to call people "lemmings" or "sheep" but I think that title squarely belongs to the Finns.

   Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 9:03pm

4. It's funny the bloggers here at the Nation love to call people "lemmings" or "sheep" but I think that title squarely belongs to the Finns.

   Posted by ACOOK 04/05/2008 @ 9:03pm

   Umm...huh?

   What the Finns realized is that a blend of privatization and public financing works the best. It's not that hard to understand, really.

   Posted by yutsano at 04/05/2008 @ 9:10pm

5. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 8:54pm

   C'mon, IBB, are so willing to pay so much and get so little like the Finns do? I checked out the economy of Finland and they rely more on imports than exports (kinda sounds like us). I don't get that. They have a 80% unionized workforce and yet they need to import?

   Nokia is the only major competitor they have outside of their country and it doesn't rank in the top 100.

   Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 9:16pm

6. Posted by YUTSANO 04/05/2008 @ 9:10pm

   YUT, most Finns work for the govt. They're welfare for a reason. I know their president has been trying to bring in more private industry into the country because it's citizens are bleeding it dry, even if they are paying 43.1% in taxes.

   Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 9:23pm

7. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 9:23pm

   My son is doing OK, but he had to go before his CO again. He wouldn't tell me so he talked to his dad. And my husband hasn't given any details. I know he hasn't received deployment orders yet. But, if I found out it's over some more foolisness, I'm gonna raise holy hell.

   Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 9:33pm

8. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 8:54pm

   See, IBB, there's a big problem I have.

   This....hate to say it...DESIRE that some on the Left have for a "2nd Great Depression"...so as to bring about Ms vanden Heuvel's "New New Deal", or even a "revolution".

   I know you don't think you "want it to happen, just think it might or is inevitable".

   But it often SOUNDS like that it's more HOPED FOR than predicted.

   Posted by Mask at 04/05/2008 @ 9:36pm

9. "you have raised in my mind a great question. if finns pay around 43% of their income and in return get "free" quality healthcare, education, etc etc...what percentage of the income of the average american schmuk buys the same?"

   What would be the pay range?

   "does the average schmuk american buy all those things the finns pay taxes for CHEAPER under our aynrandian capitalist system?"

   I think many have done it.

   "conidering the burden of college loans debt of our college grads as well as the crushing burden of sketchy privately purchased insurance and medical bills...i gotta wonder just how selfishly ignorant and stupid american schmuks have to be to question a 43% tax rate that ends up being cheaper than a lower tax rate and exorbitant profit driven private sector services that do no better and end up costing more?"

   Again, I disagree. I say that because the Finns rely so heavily on their govt because they lack a strong private sector. I'm almost certain if Finland had an equal amount of private sector industries, I don't think the Finnish people would pay so much in taxes. God forbid their govt should collapse out from underneath them. They've got no where to turn.

   "the pop culturally lobotomized average american schmuk who misidentifies his class and class interests, probably spends a hell of a lot more than 43% of his/her income on all the services provided by the finnish government and stupidly thinks he/she is "free" and getting a big sweet deal!"

   ha ha!

   As they say, you get what you pay for... ;-)

   Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 9:23pm

   Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 9:55pm

10. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 10:14pm

    That is so true.

    Posted by ACook at 04/05/2008 @ 10:19pm

11. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 9:56pm

    Here's the point, IBB.

    I'm old enough to remember the LAST time. The late 70s, "stagflation", Soviets on the march in Afghanistan, Cubans in Africa, Commie wannabes in Central America, gas through the roof, and a kind, but seemingly weak peanut farmer as President and confused Humphrey/Kennedy liberals in Congress.

    And the RIGHT were the ones predicting "the End"..."this can't continue, the country is on the verge of collapse"..."and WHEN it happens, we'll have to turn this country back to the Old Ways...it'll be a revolution, the people will demand it!"

    Now...we got Reagan, and despite all the doom-saying of the Left...he did NOT destroy Social Security, Medicare, end abortion, or start World War-III with the Russkies, Day One Hour One...and the country somehow pulled through...and here we are 20 years later.

    Now...what lesson can the Left learn from that? That Obama MAY BE "the liberal Reagan", but what does that REALLY mean? And what chance is there that the "Obama Revolution" will be as much as METTEYA believes....anymore than the Reagan Revolution really was as much as many on the Right AND Left think it was.

    think about it...see ya next week, I'm going on a vacation...

    and FRANKGRITS (and others) can breathe a sigh of relief....heheh

    Posted by Mask at 04/05/2008 @ 10:34pm

12. I'm ready for a Sanders presidency!

    Posted by JobyTodd at 04/05/2008 @ 11:40pm

13. When you consider most of us in the good ole U.S.A. pay federal income tax, state income tax, social security tax and health insurance (my health insurance is $400 a month for just me), the Finn's are getting a much better deal at 43.1%. When I add mine up it comes to about 51% of my income and I get nothing for it except an occupation in Iraq...

    Posted by chaoszen at 04/06/2008 @ 02:37am

14. i gotta wonder just how selfishly ignorant and stupid american schmuks have to be to question a 43% tax rate that ends up being cheaper than a lower tax rate and exorbitant profit driven private sector services that do no better and end up costing more?

    i'll even pay a 48% tax rate any day of the week. bring it on.......

    Posted by darladoon at 04/06/2008 @ 12:36pm

15. for all those anti-tax people here: do you actually think there aren't people in this country who make more than $80,000, or even $100,000, a year, who aren't seriously depressed or anxious about their economic future? their home? children? retirement?

    think again. even people making 6 figures in this country are barely hanging on.

    Posted by darladoon at 04/06/2008 @ 12:38pm

16. i love how mask sums up reagan with "we made it through". did we really make it through reagan when none of the presidential candidates can even mention, nay whisper, tax increases?

    reagan changed everything. forever.

    Posted by darladoon at 04/06/2008 @ 12:40pm

17. and was jimmy carter just a peanut farmer?

    i highly suggest everyone see 'man of the plains'. the guy was AMAZING, in every way. he could paint, write poetry, farm, teach, broker peace deals, write books, make films, he was a leonardo da vinci of the south....a truly gifted, incredible man. make bush look like a retard.

    Posted by darladoon at 04/06/2008 @ 12:45pm

18. Please educate yourselves ref Finland taxes. Go to this site (Finnish IRS)and do your tax return in ENGLISH in 5 minutes. Just enter the first 4 blanks and scroll down to calculate. Its pretty similar to our 1040 but you can skip all the rest. Pay attention to use of decimal points vs commas. They use reverse from USA. You might just be surprised at how little they pay -definitely LESS than americans. Baffled after that exercise? Then see my site: http://www.universalhealthcareinfousa.com

    http://www.vero.fi/default.asp?language=ENG&domain=VERO_ENGLISH

    Posted by John Saarikko at 04/06/2008 @ 1:40pm

19. Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/05/2008 @ 9:56pm

    Are you smoking the same herbs as Darla?

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/06/2008 @ 3:12pm

20. Posted by DARLADOON 04/06/2008 @ 12:45pm

    Now I know you are both high on herbs

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/06/2008 @ 3:13pm

21. Posted by JOHN SAARIKKO 04/06/2008 @ 1:40pm

    No thanks. I tried it and I would pay 67% there vs the 1% I paid in 2007 here.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/06/2008 @ 3:21pm

22. Watched "This Week" this morning with KVH. Katrina---in case you didn't notice----the grownups were laughing at you. Cokie thinks your nuts---George Will thinks your silly ---and George Steph just thinks your laughable-----you truly are a perfect representative of the lunatic left.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/06/2008 @ 7:10pm

23. think again. even people making 6 figures in this country are barely hanging on.

    And they are scared to death that people like you are going to categorize them as rich and tax the heck out of them. If you make over $100,000 in this country be afraid----be very afraid.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/06/2008 @ 7:12pm

24. Darla:

    I'm curious on your view. The Clintons paid approximately $33M in taxes on the $107M income over the last 7 years. That's about 31%. What should it be?

    Posted by sntauri at 04/06/2008 @ 7:14pm

25. i highly suggest everyone see 'man of the plains'. the guy was AMAZING, in every way. he could paint, write poetry, farm, teach, broker peace deals, write books, make films, he was a leonardo da vinci of the south....a truly gifted, incredible man. make bush look like a retard.

    Posted by DARLADOON 04/06/2008 @ 12:45pm | ignore this person

    Jimmy will always be ranked by historians in the bottom quarter of American Presidents. He has been a much better person than a President. But he has often overstepped his bounds when commenting on Foreign Policy.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/06/2008 @ 7:15pm

26. Posted by ACOOK 04/05/2008 @ 9:03pm

    Outside of cosmetic surgical procedures, what constitutes a "non-emergency" operation? I'm almost afraid to hear that answer.

    An ICU nurse who has never heard of elective surgery? Here are a few examples: cataracts, most forms of joint replacement surgery, removal of benign liver tumors, asymptomatic unruptured intracranial aneurysms, surgery to relieve pressure of pinched nerves, tonsillectomies, many hernias and on and on and on.

    While you may find different things to be "scary" than I do, I still can't see how this list and the many other procedures that would make it would "scare" anyone.

    Posted by srjenkins at 04/06/2008 @ 7:17pm

27. Bernie Sanders is one of the best examples of what politics could and should be in this age of telegenic liars.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/06/2008 @ 3:13pm

    Interesting how "liberal" conservatives are with our money when it comes to "defense" spending - and how they complain about taxes when they don't pay any.

    Posted by LEN MOSSE 04/06/2008 @ 7:12pm

    I'm not afraid.

    Posted by LEN MOSSE 04/06/2008 @ 7:15pm

    Jimmy will always be ranked by historians in the bottom quarter of American Presidents.

    Certainly will be false at some point. Not that I could give a scrape of the scrotum for a historian's ranking of anything.

    Posted by srjenkins at 04/06/2008 @ 7:31pm

28. and how they complain about taxes when they don't pay any.

    Don't pay any?-----Come and check my tax bill out---Don't pay any--you got to be kidding.

    And by the way----defense spending is not the number one item that money goes to in this country---Entitlement spending is!

    And if you are not afraid---fine ---pay my taxes along with yours--apparently it will give you some sort of satisfaction--also there is nothing stopping you from paying more than is expected---so raise your own taxes not mine.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/06/2008 @ 8:23pm

29. SR----There is nothing stopping you from paying more in federal income taxes than required. So tax yourself at a fifty percent rate and pay more----It should make you feel better.

    The comment about not paying taxes makes no sense---the top five percent of taxpayers pay fifty percent of the tax bill. I will gladly let you pay my federal tax bill. And one more thing---the number one spending item on the federal budget is not defense spending ---it is Entitltement spending.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/06/2008 @ 8:27pm

30. Posted by LEN MOSSE 04/06/2008 @ 8:27pm

    There is nothing stopping you from paying more in federal income taxes than required. So tax yourself at a fifty percent rate and pay more----It should make you feel better.

    If I could dictate how my taxes were spent, I would consider it.

    The comment about not paying taxes makes no sense---the top five percent of taxpayers pay fifty percent of the tax bill.

    LVL claims to have paid 1% of his income in taxes, which is rather interesting considering how eager he is to spend everyone else's taxes on war. It's just another example of bankruptcy of tax cut and spend neo-conservativism.

    It doesn't make sense to you because you aren't looking at the context in which the comment was made and at who it was directed.

    And one more thing---the number one spending item on the federal budget is not defense spending ---it is Entitltement spending.

    This statement is only true when you cook the books and rely on Congressional Budget figures that calculates the cost of the "war on terror" at $38 billion and manages not to include: off-budget spending; debt from previous military spending such as Vietnam, Star Wars, etc.; on-budget "defense" spending hidden in non-DoD departments; veteran's benefits and services; and so forth.

    Even when they pared it down and excluded many relevant figures from the total, we still get 20% on "defense spending". I think this chart captures the issue nicely:

    http://www.fcnl.org/budget/2009_budget_pie.pdf

    Posted by srjenkins at 04/06/2008 @ 9:24pm

31. Now I know you are both high on herbs

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/06/2008 @ 3:13pm

    ah, matricaria recutita........

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/06/2008 @ 9:56pm

32. Posted by SRJENKINS 04/06/2008 @ 9:24pm

    If I could dictate how my taxes were spent, I would consider it.

    Here's a thought for all you "free market" types. Let's do the tax bill just like we do now. Except, have people dictate how their taxes are to be spent as part of their income tax forms.

    Give people the option to "Let the President/Congress Decide" for those that like how their taxes are currently allocated and for those that don't, provide a top level breakdown of Federal Outlays by Detailed Function and let people allocate their own taxes. A breakout like this could be a start:

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/tables/08s0459.pdf

    Some people might want to put it all towards eliminating debt. Others might put all their money for the "war of terror" or split it between international humanitarian assistance, energy, natural resources, education, health or whatever they would like to see their money spent on.

    Eliminate any spending that exceeds revenues for that function and use the "Let the President/Congress" decide option to provide the discretionary funds necessary to maintain some kind of equilibrium in resource allocation. If the President/Congress starts spending all of their discretionary dollars on something like military spending that isn't reflected in how taxes are allocated by the people, and people don't approve, they can change their option the next year to take away this money from them.

    "Vote with your tax dollar and with your ballot" democracy. It's an idea whose time has come. Now, who among you conservatives can I count on to help push this agenda?

    Posted by srjenkins at 04/06/2008 @ 10:38pm

33. Bernie Sanders rules. People just need to embrace Socialism, without caring whether Sean Hannity thinks they're "pink," or "communists."I have suggested Christian Socialism, in order to assuage fears in more conservative states. I live in New York City, and I think we ought to secede. There is a bill pending in the NY State legislature, has been for some time now, which would at least detach the city from the state. Our own nationhood would be ideal, but our own U.S. statehood would also free us of our impediments, and really shock Washington, D.C. I'm for New York City secession in 2010. Let's get the vote out. Time to Balkanize. I'm not fixing America. Time for a new gig, New Yorkers.

    Debs '08

    Posted by EugeneDebs at 04/07/2008 @ 01:06am

34. criminal fascist

    I am neither a criminal or a fascist. You must have me confused with the democrat Governor of New York.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 04/07/2008 @ 07:28am

35. "No thanks. I tried it and I would pay 67% there vs the 1% I paid in 2007 here."

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/06/2008 @ 3:21pm

    This is truly something to be proud of.

    Posted by drhammer at 04/07/2008 @ 07:28am

36. Posted by EUGENEDEBS 04/07/2008 @ 01:06am

    We can hardly wait!

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/07/2008 @ 09:32am

37. jesus was a socialist, after all...

    "When I fed the hungry, they called me a saint. When I asked why people are hungry, they called me a communist."

    Dom Helder Camara

    Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/07/2008 @ 02:29am

    More liberal mythology. Jesus was and is a Theocratic King. His call for giving was not directed towards government, but to individuals. There is no scripture in the New Testament about the role of government caring for the needs of people. It deals with the responsibility of individuals to do so.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/07/2008 @ 09:35am

38. There is no scripture in the New Testament about the role of government caring for the needs of people.

    Posted by LVLIBERTY1 04/07/2008 @ 09:35am

    so why is it that evangelicals keep trying use the government to tell people how to live?

    is god a dictator?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 04/07/2008 @ 09:43am

39. "More liberal mythology."

    We are thick with irony today...

    Posted by drhammer at 04/07/2008 @ 11:28am

40. Two Observations here:

    1. KATRINA keeps talking about the per capita expenditures being higher here than in Finland while we have less uninsured, although she never satisfactorily says how they manage it. I would submit that since its "free" to everyone, that eliminates the "uninsured" figure. (sort of like making robbery legal then claiming we live in a theft free society) The high per capita part comes from the fact that today, the medical world can charge unprecedented prices because they can get it from the richest sources here, ie deep pocketed business and our pocketed gov't. Take THOSE sorces away and see what happenes to the per capita figure.

    2. I find it funny how much the Socialists, or promoters of Socialist like programs, are always referring to "The People": "The People's this" & "The People's that" when very little of the programs, or their end result, will have anything to do with the people, unless of course we all plod mindlessly along accepting whatever they give us. Then it works fine!

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/07/2008 @ 1:58pm

41. Sorry, that first line should read "less INsured"

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/07/2008 @ 1:59pm