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RedditLast week, the Senate -- via the Kyl-Lieberman Senate resolution -- handed the Bush Administration a close-to-blank check for military strikes against Iran. The resolution accuses Iran of fighting "a proxy war against the Iraqi state and coalition forces in Iraq." (Hillary Clinton, along with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, voted for it.) Sy Hersh's chilling article in this week's New Yorker ("The Administration's Plan for Iran") shows how the Administration may attempt to use that resolution as it redefines its military and political justifications for attacking Iran.
Hersh reports that the White House has requested that the Joint Chiefs redraw its plans for a possible attack on Iran. Confronted with a lack of public support for a major bombing campaign, with the intelligence community's assessment that Iran is at least five years away from obtaining a nuclear bomb, and the growing realization in Washington that Iran is "the geopolitical winner of the war in Iraq," the Administration has been marketing a new and dangerous line. The view that has taken hold in the White House, Hersh writes, is "that if many of America's problems [in Iraq] are the responsibility of Tehran, then the solution to them is to confront the Iranians." As a result, "What had been presented primarily as a counterproliferation mission has been reconceived as counterterrorism." The focus is no longer broad bombing attacks--with targets including Iran's known and suspected nuclear facilities and other military and infrastructure cites. Instead, " the emphasis is on 'surgical' strikes on Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere, which the Administration claims, have been a source of attacks on Americans in Iraq."
The revised bombing plan, "with its tightened focus on counterterrorism, is gathering support among generals and admirals in the Pentagon," Hersh writes. One former senior intelligence official tells Hersh, " Cheney's option is now for a fast in and out--for surgical strikes." Hersh is careful to state that he was "repeatedly cautioned in interviews" that Bush has yet to issue the "execute order" that is required for military operations inside Iran--"and such an order may never be issued." But, he continues, " there has been a significant increase in the tempo of attack planning."
Hersh quotes former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski: "This time, unlike the attack in Iraq, we're going to play the victim. The name of our game seems to be to get the Iranians to overplay their hand. A lot depends on how stupid the Iranians will be. Will they cool off (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad and tone down their language?" How will the Iranians react to more limited bombing strikes? Brzezinski tells Hersh that Iran would likely react "by intensifying the conflict in Iraq and also in Afghanistan, their neighbors, and that could draw in Pakistan. We will be stuck in a regional war for twenty years."
America's allies have shown mixed reactions to the new plans. Strikingly, Hersh reports that the new British government of Gordon Brown has had the most positive response to the plan--even though, as one retired four-star General tells Hersh, the British believe they were "sold a bill of goods" before the war in Iraq and "the burden of proof is high" for action against Iran. There are a few speaking out against plans that could result in disastrous and unintended consequences for US and world security. Hans Blix tells Hersh, "There are important cards that Washington could play; instead, they have three aircraft carriers sitting in the Persian Gulf."
As to the drumbeat for war, Blix says that his "impression is that the United States has been trying to push up the accusations against Iran as a basis for possible attack--as an excuse for jumping on them." David Kay, the former CIA adviser and chief weapons inspector in Iraq for the United Nations, tells Hersh that "questions remain about the provenance of weapons in Iraq, especially given the rampant black market in arms." His inspection team was astounded, Kay says, in the aftermath of both Iraq wars, by the 'huge amounts of arms' it found circulating among civilians and military personnel throughout the country. He recalled seeing stockpiles of explosively formed penetrators, as well as charges that had been recovered from unexploded American cluster bombs. Kay also says, "I thought Petraeus went way beyond what Iran is doing inside Iraq today."
Hersh's important and alarming article is a warning that the Administration is intent on taking us into another military disaster--which will destabilize the region and the world and make the US less secure. And actions like the Senate's Kyl-Lieberman resolution, while only symbolic, could be used as a pretext by a White House determined to use military confrontation to avoid blame for the catastrophe in Iraq. It must be repealed. In its place, the Senate should introduce and pass a resolution stating that there are no good military options for solving our disagreements with Iran. Military action will only result in disastrous and unintended consequences for US, regional and global interests. It is time for tough-minded and astute diplomacy and engagement with Iran--so as to weaken the hardliners in that country's government. One tragedy among many: At a time when a majority of Americans appear to have learned that there are limitations to the use of military force, it appears increasingly likely that the hardliners in our country are intent on taking us into another fiasco.
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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Mr. Shits, I do not believe Stalin was a pacifist. Your ugly words will do much to endanger our nation's sanity. And I suggest you study some history before you weigh in with threats and uninformed attitude. You might also wish to read Sy Hersh's riveting, chilling article--don't trust my summary of it. KvH
Posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel at 09/30/2007 @ 9:34pm
Isn't it about time, for you Ms. KvH, to ever-so-gently rip into YOUR favorite...who is again, helping to beat on the drum of war....this time, as the presumed Dem Nominee, fat chance she would've allowed herself to look `weak'.....smart girl, she knew the `safe' thing is to go with the flow....THAT'S HER GUIDING PRINCIPLE! (add her cackle for effect.....)
Posted by Happy at 09/30/2007 @ 10:02pm
Posted by KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL 09/30/2007 @ 9:34pm
most of us, even the con-trolls, claim to have this one on ignore. i find its rants kinda funny, though. like a car wreck...
i think i went into a coma in 2000 and have yet to wake up...is all this really happening? wow...
but will "they" really do it with such little support? lame duck powers activate?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:06pm
watch out KVH - its rabid and bites!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:06pm
I'm sorry KVH, but this all sounds like propaganda to me. The only people "drumming" up a war with Iran is the liberal media.
Posted by ACook at 09/30/2007 @ 10:07pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/30/2007 @ 10:02pm | ignore this person
check out the iowa numbers, hap...the o-train is picking up steam...
has KVH endorsed HRC? have not seen that...
from the work i did this weekend on barry o's campaign, i am impressed. he is targeting with impressive precision and the more people who see, listen, the more people begin to think that hrc's self anointed shoo-in status is starting to crack...
check out his site - especially the videos part...he looks very presidential...
barryO [barackobama.com]
the army of highly idealistic college kids is being joined by more and more old farts like me. not that i mind the army of highly idealistic college kids...some are right hot as well as idealistic...lol...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:14pm
it seems so self destructively stupid...even for them...
as i've suggested before, might thebushies be using their rep for stupid violence to scare the iranians into negotiating, maybe with the frenchies and germans?
or is that too sensible and smart?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:18pm
i dont know...there's an awful lot of suspicious leaks going on here...
like they are purposeful...
dont start freaking out just yet.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:24pm
Posted by ZERO 09/30/2007 @ 10:30pm | ignore this person
its like bill avoiding gore in 2000...the only thing they can do to any republican by appearing but ron paul is assure defeat in 08...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:37pm
seems to me there turning up the rhetoric in order to drive up the price of oil enough to make there buddies in texas even super-mega richer.
not enough to flush the economy (although that may be too late), just enough to make..... -- ¿what the f@#k do they do with all that $$?
who gets richer when the drums of war with iran sounds?
oil markets panic. oil goes up. profits go up.
for bushco. AND for the mullahs.
good for business, frightening people.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 10:39pm
Posted by KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL 09/30/2007 @ 9:34pm
please show some respect, kvh
that's mr. shitZ, not shitS
BTW "STALINIST CRUISES" has to be the ultimate oxymoron.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 10:42pm
Posted by ZERO 09/30/2007 @ 10:42pm
as conspiratorial as that sounds...she sure is looking like she's "all up ons" to me too. sort of a reverse of johnson/nixon in terms of vietnam...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 10:46pm
Kyl-Lieberman Senate resolution:
(b) Sense of Senate.--It is the sense of the Senate--
(1) that the manner in which the United States transitions and structures its military presence in Iraq will have critical long-term consequences for the future of the Persian Gulf and the Middle East, in particular with regard to the capability of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran to pose a threat to the security of the region, the prospects for democracy for the people of the region, and the health of the global economy;
(2) that it is a vital national interest of the United States to prevent the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran from turning Shi'a militia extremists in Iraq into a Hezbollah-like force that could serve its interests inside Iraq, including by overwhelming, subverting, or co-opting institutions of the legitimate Government of Iraq;
(3) that it should be the policy of the United States to combat, contain, and roll back the violent activities and destabilizing influence inside Iraq of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran, its foreign facilitators such as Lebanese Hezbollah, and its indigenous Iraqi proxies;
(4) to support the prudent and calibrated use of all instruments of United States national power in Iraq, including diplomatic, economic, intelligence, and military instruments, in support of the policy described in paragraph (3) with respect to the Government of the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies;
(5) that the United States should designate the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a foreign terrorist organization under section 219 of the Immigration and Nationality Act and place the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps on the list of Specially Designated Global Terrorists, as established under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act and initiated under Executive Order 13224; and
(6) that the Department of the Treasury should act with all possible expediency to complete the listing of those entities targeted under United Nations Security Council Resolutions 1737 and 1747 adopted unanimously on December 23, 2006 and March 24, 2007, respectively.
still pretty nasty. they removed paragraphs 3 and 4
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 10:58pm
Last week, the Senate handed the Bush Administration a close-to-blank check for military strikes
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿again?????????
a proxy war against the Iraqi state
how dare they! why can't they invade directly (worked for us (as spoken by senate)?
Hillary Clinton, along with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, voted for it.
duh?
Confronted with a lack of public support for a major bombing campaign
god bless YOU, america
the Administration has been marketing
you deserve a break today, so get up and bomb away...........
which the Administration claims, have been a source of attacks on Americans
shit. looks like they'll have to do some surgical attacks on detroit, and philly, and washington, and miami, and and and and and and ........
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 11:06pm
check out the iowa numbers, hap...the o-train is picking up steam...
has KVH endorsed HRC? have not seen that...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/30/2007 @ 10:14pm
I read that story....your man is doing great w/likely caucus voters, NOT yet among (all) Iowa Dems.....
I deduced KvH's `silent' endorsement of HRC by TN's total silence on the whole Norman Hsu story.....the silence was too deafening & willful to be UNplaned....plus, both are Queenies....:-)
Posted by Happy at 09/30/2007 @ 11:11pm
The revised bombing plan, "with its tightened focus on counterterrorism
another oxymoron
Cheney's option is now for a fast in and out
i doubt he remembers how
we're going to play the victim.
another poor opossum
how stupid the Iranians will be
takes two to tango
We will be stuck in a regional war for twenty years
Erik Prince is breaking out the bubbly as we clakkety-clak
As to the drumbeat for war
Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of deaths construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
unexploded American cluster bombs
are we talking about iraq or lebanon?
which will destabilize the region and the world and make the US less secure
again, great for business
It is time for tough-minded and astute diplomacy and engagement
looks like you should move up that election, real quick!
it appears increasingly likely that the hardliners in our country are intent on taking us into another fiasco.
oh fuck!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 11:16pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/30/2007 @ 10:02pm
i can say that much more eloquently, HAPPY.
"HILLARY is a war-mongering blob of plastic"
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 11:21pm
Posted by ACOOK 09/30/2007 @ 10:07pm
filled up your gas tank lately?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 11:22pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/30/2007 @ 11:11pm | ignore this person
pehaps...but i think it might be more like MASK's dilemma. not their favorite, but stuck in a groupthink prison (as evinced by nichols' glum, defeatist post, which got strangely buried, about the inevitability of giganta's rise) that there is no stopping the she behemoth, and the she behemoth, as distasteful and sketchy as she is, is preferable to any likely to get the pub nomination...so dont give the enemy ammo to shoot the compromised self annointed one...
and until quite recently i though obama had no chance myself, honestly.
but his organization is impressive indeed...i'm seeing it first hand. i've seen good and bad campaigns from up close, and this guy knows what he's doing. turning negatives (inexperience) into positive (still uncorrupted, fresh...so on).
and a victory in iowa (where he has been targetting effectively) will change the whole game...
people whoonce dismissed him because of his ethnicity (and non hrc'ness) are rethinking... whitebread america is jumping on the o-train, curmudgeons are joining iealistic college kids, and serious non-political leaders are looking and not disliking.
superstar charisma, genuine decency, clean record, smart ideas...and rising above partisanship is appealing to more and more...
and people really want an alternatve to the old and stale of either party...
i actually think he stands a shot at winning soe of the south...any southern blacks think a (half) balck cant win, so are selling out to hillery, but even this is changing, and should he win the nomination, they might turn out to vote like never before...
he aint no jesse jackson nor al sharpton - he's a real candidate...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 11:33pm
man..gotta preview my posts...lol...or get a new keyboard...think there's a fingernail clipping stuck under the m key...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/30/2007 @ 11:37pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/30/2007 @ 11:37pm
first i thought "soe" was soe sort of internet acrony.
then i noticed any other words with soe letters issing.
any thanks for the uch needed explanation.
frosty zoo.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 11:55pm
....but i think it might be more like MASK's dilemma. not their favorite, but stuck in a groupthink prison....
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/30/2007 @ 11:33pm
MASK won't like my (recent) conclusions that: 1) he `played' us w/his "dilemma" and, 2) he is a Dem, not a Libertarian! I've thought long and hard....how many (otherwise) informed and intelligent blogger would go around publicly repeating the "dilemma" of "Don't trust her.....but will vote for HRC"? We all have some doubts about our `acceptable' candidates but why go around as MASK has been? IMO, he has been `herding' everyone to conclude "that there is no stopping the she behemoth"!
MASK backs HRC vocally while The Nation does it silently by NOT being critical.....both strategies accomplish the same thing....long live the Clintons....though The Nation still `wears' its liberal/progressive label! I guarantee that if the TN endorses anyone, it will be HRC! TN won't go to bat for non-DLC candidates when it might make a difference.....but it's practical, it's a business!
Posted by Happy at 10/01/2007 @ 12:15am
Posted by HAPPY 10/01/2007 @ 12:15am
well, who knows?
HEY KVH! I KNOW YOU DO INDEED PEER DOWN INTO THE BLOG RESPONSE PITS OF HELL AND WATCH US PIT FIENDS CLAWING, BITING, AND SNARLING AT EACH OTHER. WHAT'S THE DEAL?
there, HAP...that should clear things up! time for beddy bye for me. i'm sure that when i check in tomorrow, this will all be cleared up. MASK is just david corn's sock puppet, anyway, by the way...
hee hee...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 12:31am
but it's practical, it's a business!
Posted by HAPPY 10/01/2007 @ 12:15am
¡ouch! how true.
as for mask (where art thou?), i read from his statements that he would reluctantly vote for hrc as the lesser of two evils.
if i had to choose betwixt rudy g and hrc, i'd wincingly vote for GIGANTA.
but hey, whudda i know?
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 12:33am
Hillary's latest cave in to the militarists is enough for me. I'll sit back and watch America self-destruct now. I see the Surge worked-at least well enough to proceed with another war. Why would you even bother to answer frankshitz-just another rabid warmonger. Another unnecessary war will bring this militaristic cabal to its knees. We can't even control the violence in Iraq-much less the violence spawed by an attack on Iran, Stupidity reigns . We've seen the chaos in Iraq-multiply that by 100. Hillary Clinton has screwed herself big time.
Posted by viikky at 10/01/2007 @ 12:53am
Posted by KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL 09/30/2007 @ 9:34pm
I THINK "MR. SHITS" IS ACTUALLY RUSH LIMBAUGH...
Or one of his lackeys. (Brilliant riposte, BTW. Mine to him would be a bit shorter: "Get some therapy."
Posted by ACOOK 09/30/2007 @ 10:07pm
PRETTY STUPID COMMENT...
Wait till the cruise missiles start launching....
Posted by HAPPY 09/30/2007 @ 10:02pm
CONSIDER YOURSELF SPARED...
For now.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/30/2007 @ 11:16pm et al.
Agreed. It seems that we are all about to be well and truly fucked (again) by the Bush/Cheney administration. The Congressional Dems could stop it, but they're a-skeered of seeming "soft" and not "supporting the troops." It's almost enough to make me renounce my (card-carrying) party membership but only almost. There's really no alternative. (And yes, I too will probably be forced, wincingly, to vote for Hillary come fall.)
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 12:31am
FUNN-YEE
;-)
Posted by w_m_bear at 10/01/2007 @ 01:02am
AND, OF COURSE, THE INEVITABLE ISRAEL CONNECTION...
Another thing the article points out is that the Israelis actually DON'T like the new "surgical strikes against terrorists in Iran" idea. The antics of the Revolutionary Guard et al. don't seem to upset them terribly. It's the nukes, stupid. Israel (somehwat understandably) wants Bush/Cheney to stick to the original concept and take out the nuclear labs and plants. This plan has evidently been shelved for now, because it was highly unpopular here. Bush/Cheney's whole idea (Cheney's whole idea, actually) is to garner more support cruise-missiling Iran by making the attack look like we're defending the troops in Iraq, etc. (Basically, "Support our troops, bomb Iran.") These guys have been staying up nights for the last several months thinking of this switch in tactics.
BTW, I don't want to get off onto the subject of Hillary. OK, so she voted for the authorization rider or whatever it is, so sue her. (I plan to, or, at any rate, execute the moral equivalent of suing and voted for someone else -- probably Edwards, possibly Obama, just possibly Kucinich, depending on how much Edwards or Obama need votes, or whether it makes sense to "just express myself" and vote for whomever I damn well please. But yup, Hillary next fall, no doubt.)
Posted by w_m_bear at 10/01/2007 @ 01:16am
Personally, I believe Cheney is trying to incite a Presidential assassination, so that (as the next President) he can claim the Republican nomination (from that crowd of Bozos), and claim that, as in 2004, the Country should not change "leaders" in the middle of the Iran War.
Call me paranoid if you want to, but it's not paranoia if the threat is real...
Posted by sjduskin at 10/01/2007 @ 01:21am
"No one is fool enough to choose war instead of peace - in peace, sons bury their fathers but in war fathers bury sons."
Croesus, after being reprieved by Cyrus, King Of Persia. (Herodotus -The Histories, Bk 1,87)
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 01:45am
I would rather discover one true cause than gain the kingdom of Persia.
Democritus
who said that?
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 01:48am
If you dig a pit for others to fall into, you will fall into it yourself.
Jalal al-Din Muhammad Rumi
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 02:18am
Israel (somehwat understandably) wants Bush/Cheney to stick to the original concept and take out the nuclear labs and plants.
Posted by W_M_BEAR 10/01/2007 @ 01:16am
so should iran take out israeli nuclear labs and plants?
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 02:20am
SHE SPEAKS!!
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/01/2007 @ 08:25am
SHE SPEAKS!!
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/01/2007 @ 08:26am
She didn't say anything, but Kat actually spoke to someone on here!!
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/01/2007 @ 08:27am
"West Chester, Pa.: History seems to be repeating it self as the drumbeat for war with Iran, based on accusations not backed up by any facts, intensifies. Do you think the Bush administration will launch a war (perhaps sending only the bombers) against Iran and if they do what are the likely consequences for the Middle East?
Dana Priest: Frankly, I think the military would revolt and there would be no pilots to fly those missions. This is a little bit of hyberpole, but not much. Just look at what Gen. Casey, the Army chief, said yesterday. That the tempo of operations in Iraq would make it very hard for the military to respond to a major crisis elsewhere. Beside, it's not the "war" or "bombing" part that's difficult; it's the morning after and all the days after that. Haven't we learned that (again) from Iraq?"
http://tinyurl.com/3d2c9q
Posted by hsuBfools at 10/01/2007 @ 08:30am
MASK backs HRC vocally while The Nation does it silently by NOT being critical
The Nation has posted many, many articles critical of HRC in recent months. You right-wing nutjobs really do see just what you want to see, don't ya?
SOME ARTICLES ABOUT HRC FROM THE NATION IN 2007
"Hillary Pushes the Button" Robert Scheer | What in the world was Clinton thinking when she attacked Obama for pledging not to use nuclear weapons in the hunt for Osama bin Laden? August 27, 2007 (web)
"Hillary's Labor Gambit" Ari Berman | Senator Clinton has a pro-worker voting record. So why are unionists skeptical? August 27, 2007 issue
"Who Is Hillary Clinton?" Barbara Ehrenreich | A closer look at Hillary Clinton's career reveals a technocratic centrist whose political ambition might trump any progressive policy promises. July 9, 2007 (web)
"What Women See When They See Hillary" Lakshmi Chaudhry | Some of the same feminists who loved Hillary as First Lady are now fiercely opposing her bid for the White House. July 2, 2007 issue
"Hillary's Political Horror Story" Nicholas von Hoffman | A new biography reveals that the Senator from New York--and a host of other Democrats--did not get all the facts before casting a crucial vote to invade Iraq. June 18, 2007 (web)
"Hillary Inc." Ari Berman | Clinton vows to defend Americans against the privileged and powerful, but her ties to big business compromise her populist promises. June 4, 2007 issue
"Spinning Hillary Centrist" Ari Berman | How can Hillary Clinton maintain her populist credentials when Mark Penn, her chief pollster and campaign strategist, also represents the interests of some of America's largest corporations? May 21, 2007 (web)
"Senator Inevitable" William Greider | Nothing personal, but Hillary Clinton is a candidate of the past. March 26, 2007 issue
"Hillary the Hawk" Robert Scheer | Let's face it. Hillary Clinton is not a peace candidate. March 5, 2007 (web)
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 08:31am
I'm sorry KVH, but this all sounds like propaganda to me. The only people "drumming" up a war with Iran is the liberal media.
um, watch Fox News for 15 seconds. For several hours this weekend they reported on the imminent threat posed by Iran. At certain times they literally did this to the beat of a drum. The coverage was sprinkled liberally with footage of mushroom clouds. This administration will attack Iran, probably on the basis of an "incident" ginned up by the CIA.
I have a question: if the CIA creates an incident to act as a catalyst to war and civilians die in that incident, does that mean that perhaps the madman who runs Iran was right about this one little thing, i.e. that the CIA is a terrorist organization?
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 08:42am
Posted by HAPPY 10/01/2007 @ 12:15am
HAPP is terrified that Bush has been such a monumental screw-up that he's even cost Repubs us libertarians....well, he was and he has.
HAPP, what can Hillary do as President that will be worse than Bush? "Federally run health care"?...as I said, I don't like it, but if it costs LESS than half a TRILLION in 4 years and doesn't KILL anybody....cost-benefit says it's 1000X than what Bush gave us with Iraq!
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2007 @ 09:06am
As for "attacking Iran"....Scott Ritter predicted it occurring in Feburary of 2005...
for JUNE of 2005 (yes, over two years ago)...and it didn't.
I think Mr Hersh will be predicting it until Inauguration Day 2009...and then say "Well, it WOULD have happened if we (meaning him) hadn't exposed it!"
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2007 @ 09:08am
Posted by BLUESPARK 10/01/2007 @ 08:31am
BLUE, the SUM TOTAL of my "vocal support for Hillary"...
is me telling HAPP that I would vote for WHOEVER the Democratic nominee is...even Her Majesty.
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2007 @ 09:09am
i.e. that the CIA is a terrorist organization?
Posted by BLUESPARK 10/01/2007 @ 08:42am
a qwik qwiki found this:
2 Iran 1953
3 Guatemala 1954
4 Cuba 1959-
5 Democratic Republic of the Congo 1960
6 Iraq 1963
7 Iraq 1968
8 Afghanistan 1973-74
9 Afghanistan 1978-1980s
10 Iran 1980
11 Nicaragua 1981-1990
12 Iraq early 1990s
13 Recent claims
13.1 Guatemala 1993
13.2 Zimbabwe 2000s
13.3 Serbia 2000
13.4 Venezuela 2002
13.5 Libya 2003
13.6 Equatorial Guinea 2004
13.7 Palestinian Authority 2006-??
13.8 Iran 2007
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 09:24am
I believe our Executive Branch is trying to create a new villain. For a long time, they've been exaggerating the Al-Qaeda presence in Iraq. That no longer seems to be working, since this presence was never very large and is now shrinking. But now that the US troops are working together with former Sunni insurgents, the Shiites are upset and turning to Iran to support.
No problem. This creates yet another opportunity to pursue the "divide and conquer" strategy that this administration has wanted to pursue all along. They would have preferred a "lower intensity" conflict, of course, one that they could manage with minimal bloodshed while delivering oil profits to their cronies. But if you can get enough US-Americans angry at the new bad guy of the month, then you can reduce the number of US-Americans who care enough about bloodshed to mobilize against the war.
Another reason to rattle sabers at Iran is to give the impression that we are still "in charge" of the Middle East, even though we have withdrawn to a single province of Iraq. The "surge" seems to have been primarily the strategy of concentrating more troops upon a smaller area so that they appear to be more successful, provided that you don't look around too much outside this area.
I wish I knew how to convince the intransigents in Congress that this wasteful war for oil and nothing else must end. Should we say that we've failed and will continue to fail for as long as we stay in Iraq? Or should we congratulate ourselves on a job well done and advise that we quit while we're still ahead?
We are bleeding, shedding blood, and spending money like Niagara Falls in Iraq, and for scarcely any benefit, unless you happen to be Blackwater, Halliburton, or that guy who recently made a killer oil deal with Kurdistan. Whatever else may happen when we leave, Iraq will not any time soon become a strongly unified power capable of threatening even its neighbors, let alone us. This should enough to convince all rational people that we should leave.
Now, what do we do to convince everybody else?
P.S. to "Happy": I'd say that "Mask" is in fact a libertarian and not a Democrat.
Posted by JakobFabian at 10/01/2007 @ 09:30am
Now, what do we do to convince everybody else?
Posted by JAKOBFABIAN 10/01/2007 @ 09:30am
start by closing the mall.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 09:37am
frankshitz-Does your mother know that you're skipping school today and playing on here?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/01/2007 @ 09:52am
I can't imagine that any American could actually have been afraid of Saddam or is afraid of Iran.I can't imagine that any American would want Bush to do anything since he is,obviously,a failure at being CIC and has done everything he can to destroy the military.He has made our military into a laughing stock that can't even bring some small third world nation under control and now they're thinking Iran?Iran has a real military and real weapons unlike what Saddam had which was a joke military.Iran is not a threat right now and the war lovers need to relax,work on developing courage,and stop wanting to attack everyone that scares them.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/01/2007 @ 10:04am
Posted by I'M NOBODY 10/01/2007 @ 10:04am
wait! there going to put a nuke in a row boat and ......................
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 10:12am
BUT I BET YOUR JUST RIGHT AT HOME ON THOSE STALINIST CRUISES OF YOURS
Posted by FRANKSHITZ 10/01/2007 @ 09:47am
we all know how old uncle joe was fond of luxury cruises...
"ok...we have 'tour of the carribbean' cruise...the 'adolph hitler' cruise, the 'genghis khan' cruise, and...oh yes, the ever popular 'joseph stalin/katrina vanden hueval' cruise...very popular, that one...
how about the mao cruise?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 10:16am
FrostyZoom-Is that the same rowboat that the terrorists are going to use to storm our shores with if we stop fighting them over there?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/01/2007 @ 10:26am
AT HOME ON THOSE STALINIST CRUISES
"At home" on a "cruise"??? People go on cruises to get away from home, you moron.
Let's play a game: who's more like Stalin, the American Left or the Bush Administration.
Let's see, the Left warned us against going into Iraq--they were right about that. The Left questioned the case made by the Bush administration for invading Iraq--they were right about that. The Left warned that invading Iraq would be a step back in the struggle against terrorism--they were right about that.
The Bush administration has, just for starters, (a) advocated torture, (b) used secret prisons, (c) claimed--and employed--the power to spy on the phone calls of Americans without justifying to anyone why they are doing it, (d) killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in massive bombings of densely populated areas and years of raids on homes (and refused to count the dead) and (d) lied and lied and lied and lied to cover up and attempt to justify all this.
It's a toss-up. Now, we really need to get someone in here who knows something about this Stalin guy to break this impasse.
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 10:34am
Posted by I'M NOBODY 10/01/2007 @ 10:26am
nope. they've got two.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 10:46am
HEY VAN DUMB EVIL [pathetic attempt at satire],
ONCE AGAIN ANOTHER POORLY WRITTEN BLOG BY A SPOILED LITTLE RICH GIRL.....[ad hominem fallacy, no attempt made to show how the article was poorly written]
JUST BECUASE[spelling error] YOU STALINIST PACIFISTS[Contradiction in terms: Stalinists did not oppse war]DONT[missing apostrophe]WANT TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST ISLAMO-NAZIS[another contradiction: the National Socialists were Christian. Also, the Nazis were a nationalist movement and international terrorism is not] YOUR BOY JIMMY CARTER CREATED WITH HELP FROM B.J AND HIS LOVELY WIFE HILLARY ROTTEN [Actually, Al Qaeda in its current form is the result of the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia after the first Bush's war in Iraq and its support for Israel].....DOESNT[missing apostrophe] MEAN YOU LEFTISTS HAVE THE RIGHT TO ENDANGER MY FAMILY WITH YOUR WEAKLING KISS ASS WAYS......[It is President Bush's policies that emboldened terrorists and empowered Iran and North Korea, not the Left's speaking out against those policies. The invasion of Iraq was the greatest gift ever given to Al Qaeda. There is but one blunder that would make things even worse: invading Iran]
GO PLAN ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR STALINIST CRUISES....[fallacy of irrelevance. No attempt made to actually argue how opposing war is equivalent to "Stalinism"]IT IS WHAT YOUR[mispelling: should be "you're"] BEST AT AFTER ALL
Frankshitz, you sir are an idiot and a Tory.
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 10:54am
HEY FROSTYZOOM AND MASK,
I looked at some of Fridays posts and I see you are BOTH on JR vaunted IGNORE list, so I did some calculations:
An Irritation Angle of 45 degrees times an I Hate America factor of 37, all divided by the mass of Hillary's brain squared gives a "you're on ignore" factor of 2.5 persons per solar day. Now, there are roughly 30 or so regulars on these blogs, so with a "you're on ignore factor" of 2.5 minus a "you're off ignore" factor of only 1.8, I estimate JR will be communicating with absolutly no one at all on here by about the 3rd week of November.
Chip
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 10/01/2007 @ 09:42am | ignore this person
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/01/2007 @ 10:55am
WELCOME TO STALIN'S ROW BOAT CRUISES!!!!
HERE'S A LIST OF ALL THE FUN TIMES HERE:
6:00am Gym opens ..............................................Torture Chamber
7:00am Continental Breakfast ............................. Bathroom Floor
8:00am Lido Breakfast .............................................Lido Deck
Spa Stalin opens ................................Motherland Deck
Pools & Whirlpools open .........................Lido Deck
8:00am Open Seating Breakfast .................... Mao Room
Pathway To Discipline ($10 fee). ...............Aerobics Studio
9:00am Port Pillaging Talk ........................... Lounge
Friends Of Karl M. ‘til 9:45am ..............................Library
Slot Machines open .........................................Casino
Fun Shops Open .....................Gulag Room
Formalities Shop Opens ..............Promenade Deck
Body Cycling Class ($10 fee) ...........Aerobics Studio
10:00am Full Casino opens .........................Capitalist Pig Deck
Big Screen Propoganda ............................. Lounge
Golf Putting Competition ......Verandah Deck, Aft
Nazi Trivia ..............................................Lido Deck
Library closes FOREVER! ......................................Atlantic Deck
10:30am Bingo ................................................Dynasty Lounge
Ping Pong Tournament ...........Verandah Deck, Fw
11:00am Travel & Conquer Talk ............................ Lounge
Golf Lessons ‘til 1:00pm................Verandah Deck, Aft
12:00pm Lido Lunch ................................................. Bar & Grill
Open Seating Lunch ........................... Saddam Room
1:00pm T-shirt Relay & Sarin Balloon Toss ......Lido Deck
Watch & Gemstone Seminar ...................... Lounge
1:30pm Artist Hanging Preview ........................ Lounge
Golf Lessons till 5:00pm .........Verandah Deck, Aft
2:00pm 5 Game Bingo. .................................. Lounge
2:30pm Blackjack Tournament .....................................Casino
2:45pm Idi Amin Talk ...............................................Gift Shop
3:00pm Promenade Fun & Games ................................... Black Site
3:30pm Ice Cream & Treats ................................. Bar & Grill
Afternoon Tea and Music by "Pinochet" .............................. Bar
5:00pm Captain's Cocktail Pogrom .........................Lounge
Children's "Programming" Party ........................... Disco
5:15pm Piano Music ............................................................ Bar
5:45pm Early Seating Dinner...........................Dining Rooms
6:00pm Seaview Bistro opens ............................ Bar & Grill
Piano Music (featuring the seductress, Katrina, the Komrade) ................. Bar
Tour Desk opens till 7:30pm ................Proleteriat Deck
6:15pm Early Seating Dinner............................ Dining Room
see www.stalinsboat.commie for complete late night details
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:06am
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 10/01/2007 @ 09:42am
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 10/01/2007 @ 10:55am
Did you factor in Newbies, Infiltrators, Handle-changers, I-Cell Parolees? Your formula looks good....needs more Beautiful Mind work on JR's Gaming Theory.....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 10/01/2007 @ 11:09am
So what happends domestically if these fools in the WH decide to strike Iran? More Dems are elected? So what? Nothing is going to change.
Posted by mtspence05 at 10/01/2007 @ 11:21am
Thanks, Zoom, for posting the itinerary of the cruise! I had burned my brochure.
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 11:43am
From DavidCorn.com:
October 01, 2007
Farewell to The Nation
Below is a note that I wrote to my colleagues (past and present) at The Nation magazine. For more details regarding my departure from the magazine--which will go into effect at the end of this month--please see the press release below.
Dear Nation colleagues,
After twenty years and eight months of representing the country's oldest political weekly in Washington, I am leaving The Nation. At the end of October, I will become chief of the new seven-person bureau that Mother Jones has opened here.
Let me thank Victor Navasky and Katrina vanden Heuvel for having provided me with a tremendous opportunity--one that few journalists ever know. For two decades, I had the freedom to cover Washington--its policy battles, its political intrigues, its players, its scandals--by going beyond the headlines, digging beneath the surface, and asking questions overlooked or dismissed by conventional media. With the magazine's support, I was able both to break important stories and to be a participant in the critical policy and political debates of the past two decades. Also with the magazine's backing, I wrote books examining the key issues of our day. All of this, I hope, has advanced the values long championed by The Nation......
.....I wish the best for the present and future guardians of this 142-year-old notion.
Just as important, it's been a fun and often exhilarating ride. Again, I thank all those who shared it with me. Long may The Nation wave.
David Corn
Posted by David Corn at 11:36 AM
Posted by Happy at 10/01/2007 @ 11:59am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/01/2007 @ 11:06am
hmm...and kvh will be there? sounds like fun...open bar? vodka anyone?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:59am
While chanting "Death to America", "Death of Israel" and "Nuclear energy is our undisputable right", the crowd walked toward the Azadi (Freedom) Square in Tehran where Ahmadinejad held his annual speech.
Well gee wiz it sounds like these people really want to sit across from an American and make peace.... Could anyone (maybe Obama) convince the leadership in Iran that we want to work our differences out?
Posted by donho1965 at 10/01/2007 @ 12:17pm
Posted by DONHO1965 10/01/2007 @ 12:17pm
i liked how the anti-ahmadinejad crowd was screeching "USA! USA! USA!" while holding up an israeli flag!
when did that happen?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 12:23pm
Faced with yet another delayed connecting flight, Annie C. decided to compose a new diatribe on the evils of the traitorous Stalinist freaks and their total inability to protect the nation from a barrage of never-ending manufactured threat. It seemed like an important and patriotic exercise, and she was frankly tired of being ejected from the airport lounges, which were nothing but hook-up spots for traveling libz, fagz, and fag libz anyway.
Being no stranger to the Minneapolis terminal, Annie quickly found a private and familiar cubicle from which to compose her missive. It was relatively clean, not too well illuminated, but spacious enough for her to assume a stance wide enough to support her laptop. She began to create, and before long had several rambling, intermittently capitalized paragraphs, which were predictably short on intellect, but long on insult. "I LIKE IT!", she muttered, and hit the submit button.
But the WiFi in that corner of the terminal was a little shaky, and the upload was progressing a little slowly for our dynamic democrat basher. In her impatience, she started to nervously tap her sensibly-shod foot, at which point another shoe appeared from the adjoining space, and made contact with hers. Shortly thereafter, a hand appeared at the bottom of the partition, with fingers waving in an exaggerated, almost lewd fashion.
Did our hero turned heroine feel threatened by this furtive invasion of space? Not at all.
Republicans made her feel safe
Posted by drhammer at 10/01/2007 @ 12:32pm
Words that do not go together...times three.
Jumbo shrip Military Intelligence President Bush
With the current Junta driving the good ship America, everything is about the marketing plan and no thought given to whether it is a good idea or not.
Posted by Oilfieldguy at 10/01/2007 @ 12:45pm
WELCOME TO STALIN'S CRUISES!!!!
I can't wait to have my picture taken with our illustrious leaders--and then have my face airbrushed away!
Hmm, this year they've replaced Shuffleboard with something called Waterboard. Sounds like something I need to try!
I really like the sound of The Rendition Deck! Must be a music thing or something.
I can't wait to find out how much food they tell us we're eating.
I have already signed up for several seminars: (1) Civilian Deaths--How To Best Not Count Them; (2) Patriotism: Your Duty, or Your Obligation?; (3) Why Free Speech Undermines Our Brave Soldiers in the Field; (4) Bumpersticking: Intermediate Level; and (5) Emergency Stress Positions.
Those flag-draped coffins may not make the evening news, but they make great banquet tables! The "Their Sacrifice Was For US! Gala Dinner will be the high point of the whole trip! I hear that our Great Leader might be flying in himself to carve the turkey and that dessert will feature a Stealth bomber fly-over!
Oops, I almost walked out the door without my swim trunks! Oh, and my blindfold!
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 1:09pm
from david corn's farewell:
And for those of you who have gone to sea with The Nation, we'll always have the cruise.
best of luck, mr. corn.
see you in vladivostok!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 1:26pm
Posted by BLUESPARK 10/01/2007 @ 1:09pm
LOL
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 1:32pm
IBBLEBLIBBLE, The protests over the Iranian President was was disheartening. What kind of American wants to silence debate? I think I agree with you, that the anti-ahmadinejad protests were embarassing.
Having said that, do you think ANY American leader could change the Iranian leaderships (and maybe the populations) opinions of the U.S.? Is there any chance of turning Iran from adversary to ally
Posted by donho1965 at 10/01/2007 @ 1:47pm
Having said that, do you think ANY American leader could change the Iranian leaderships (and maybe the populations) opinions of the U.S.? Is there any chance of turning Iran from adversary to ally
Posted by DONHO1965
Not referring to Iran as part of the "Axis of Evil" or demanding "regime change" would be a good start.
Posted by mtspence05 at 10/01/2007 @ 1:58pm
Is there any chance of turning Iran from adversary to ally
I think that there is a real chance. We did not need to make the series of decisions that have led to the present relations. I do think that it will take time (decades probably) and that starting a war is not the proper first step.
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 2:02pm
Posted by ZERO
They fan the flames and then complain about the heat.
Posted by mtspence05 at 10/01/2007 @ 2:05pm
Posted by DONHO1965 10/01/2007 @ 1:47pm
i think so...but will never know until we make an effort. unfortunately jingoism and rah rah ree is the course until 09, it seems...
as long as we keep threatening them...i cant see why they would not want da bomb...
seems the only sure way to disagree with us and not get invaded...
but some olive branches would be nice...just to see...
the NY fiasco was pointless and absurd. invite the guy and ambush him...what?
ratchet DOWN the rhetoric, stop threatening and insulting, talk to them with some dignity and basic respect...and who knows?
but joe lieberman (l)* israel, seems just a neocon/likud patsey...
*i used to refer to him as (i) for independet, but have decided (l) for likud is more accurate. highest aipac lobbyest in the senate...
no - not anti-semitic, here...love the labor party in israel, support israel's right to exist, empathize with non-likud israelis, against everything bad, for everything good, all that, but sick of our country confusing our welfare/interest with that of likud's israel...
not the same...
in fact if we said "no" or even "whoa! settle down there izzy" once in a blue moon to israel...might be able to convince her neigbors we are not in "the zionists" back pocket and perhaps maybe move the entire region towards lasting, sane, peace...
but "bombs away" and "they are freedom hatin turrurists" seems so much easier...until we see the consequences, which ultimately hurt israel as well as us...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 2:22pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 2:22pm | ignore this person
A good friend who points out mistakes and imperfections and rebukes evil is to be respected as if he reveals a secret of hidden treasure. Buddha
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 2:28pm
Posted by DONHO1965 10/01/2007 @ 1:47pm
actually, the persians have been the strongest pro-american population in the mid-east for a long time.
in may 2003, the iranians, acting through a swiss envoy offered to put the whole-shebang on the table, nukes, israel, hezbollah, but were summarily rejected by bushco.
lost opportunity.
details here [atimes.com] and here [msnbc.msn.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 2:51pm
"WHOA! SETTLE DOWN THERE IZZY"
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 2:52pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/01/2007 @ 2:52pm
huh huh...huh...huh huh...
lol
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 3:13pm
If this plan is implemented, a war with Iran will be part of the Bush Legacy. It will destroy the Republican Party and those idiot Democrats who voted for it. Just like Iraq, there will be no "Cheney" quick in and out in this conflict. Some immediate results will be attacks on our three carriers, who are sitting ducks in the Persian Gulf, missile attacks on Israel, and we will be facing Shia, along with Sunni terrorists, all over the world. This will kill Clinton in the Democratic Primary. I am constantly amazed by the stupidity of the Bush Administration and members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. We are going to have some new political parties if we survive this mess!
Posted by P. J. Casey at 10/01/2007 @ 3:41pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/01/2007 @ 4:11pm
RIO, it's time to lay off the bong.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 4:15pm
"..ratchet DOWN the rhetoric, stop threatening and insulting, talk to them with some dignity and basic respect...and who knows?"
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 2:22pm
IBB, all things are possible, but R-E-S-P-E-C-T is a two-way street.
Posted by ACook at 10/01/2007 @ 4:24pm
The purpose of all this "attack Iran" propaganda, is to soften up opinion for an Isreali strike on Iran's nuclear infrastructure.
Posted by redleb at 10/01/2007 @ 4:34pm
maybe this picture is worth a few trillion "words" [stumbleupon.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 4:50pm
FrostyZoom-The kind of thinking that Rio has doesn't come from smoking a bong.It comes from drinking Busch beer.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/01/2007 @ 4:59pm
Concieveably[sic] Iran is another threat to mid east[sic] stability that the Demoncrats wish to nurture as they did Islamic terrorism throughout the 1990s!
But then, tolerating those who hate you unjustly without cause and allowing them to grow into great threats to the world is the prime job of the Demoncrats, leftwing, and principally a function of the United Nations!
Um, what? It was Bush that empowered Iran by invading Iraq. It was Bush that left North Korea to do what it wants while we waste time and resources in Iraq. The troops that we stationed in the Middle East that so offended OBL et al were put there by Bush I.
Get your head out of your pants.
Posted by BlueSpark at 10/01/2007 @ 5:05pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 10/01/2007 @ 4:59pm
it does if you fill it with hemlock
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 6:46pm
It seems some people have way too much time on their hands. I fully respect what Sy Hersh has written re bombing Iran. He doesn't often get things wrong. And never underestimate what the neocons are capable of. There's still 15 long months left for Bush and company to wreck all kinds of havoc in the world.
Posted by Spiker at 10/01/2007 @ 7:06pm
Good luck David Corn. You will be missed. You helped make The Nation an even better and more important publication. Cheers...
Posted by Spiker at 10/01/2007 @ 7:11pm
Israel (somehwat understandably) wants Bush/Cheney to stick to the original concept and take out the nuclear labs and plants.
Posted by W_M_BEAR 10/01/2007 @ 01:16am
so should iran take out israeli nuclear labs and plants?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/01/2007 @ 02:20am
I WAS AFRAID PEOPLE MIGHT MISINTERPRET THIS...
I wasn't indicating approval of the original idea to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, merely that I could understand WHY the Israelis preferred this plan over the current one of "surgical strikes on terrorist strongholds in Iran." In rereading my post, I think I expressed this idea poorly with my parenthetical "somewhat understandably." I can, for example UNDERSTAND why rich people tend to be Republicans without agreeing that a Republican is the thing to be. Practice looking at the world even from perspectives you consider vile. It's enlighening....
Posted by w_m_bear at 10/01/2007 @ 7:41pm
She didn't say anything, but Kat actually spoke to someone on here!!
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 10/01/2007 @ 08:27am
KVH responded to one of Mask's posts a couple of weeks ago in a very positive manner, so she does peek in from time to time. I thought starting out her response by addressing a certain asshole-ish poster in these parts as "Mr. Shits" was both apt and brilliant, since that is how Frankshitz signs himself.
Should we call him "Frank" or "Mr. Shits"?
Posted by w_m_bear at 10/01/2007 @ 7:50pm
FrostyZoom-The kind of thinking that Rio has doesn't come from smoking a bong.It comes from drinking Busch beer.
Posted by I'M NOBODY 10/01/2007 @ 4:59pm
Or Bush Koolade....
Posted by w_m_bear at 10/01/2007 @ 7:59pm
For those who aren't in the know. I think that Frank Shitz was a personal attack on Frank Gritz. A little narrow in scope and range. I only know that from reading the posts something like a week ago.
Posted by Waltz at 10/01/2007 @ 8:19pm
I deduced KvH's `silent' endorsement of HRC by TN's total silence on the whole Norman Hsu story.....the silence was too deafening & willful to be UNplaned....plus, both are Queenies....:-)
Posted by HAPPY
It sounds to me like you are trying the "guilt by association" argument:
The Nation endorses HRC because it does not cover the Hsu case. Thus Hsu is automatically linked to HRC because of his relationship with her husband and the Democratic Party.
That is an awfully broad brush.
Posted by hhemwm at 10/01/2007 @ 10:00pm
The most joyous news I heard today is that george bush and dick cheney couldn't give a rat's ass about the republican party in 2008.
I wonder if when they voted for the chump and his uncle dick, the hamsters realized that they were voting for their own downfall.
Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 10:34pm
and if you remember they did it with thunderous applause.
Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 10:34pm
(mr. shitZ, HEY VAN DUMB EVIL ) = classic Neo-Conservative Jargon http://www.Takeoverworld.info/conservatism.htm
... WILL destabilize the region and the world and make the US less secure, BINGO and by the way, Sept 11 was pre-described in that manner http://www.Takeoverworld.info/proterrorism.html
I think that the 2008 election is being thrown to the Democrats with the idea that Hillary Clinton is the best candidate
Bingo again
Personally, I believe Cheney is trying to incite a Presidential assassination
Nah. Poppy Bush would waste him. That's what the CIA is for, as well as ex-CIA. Besides, why? Is GWB standing in Cheney's way like JFK stood in CIA's way?
should not change "leaders" in the middle of the Iran War.
that's possible
remove the "source of the problem", Ahmadinejad. that's a lie, everyone says the Mullahs run him
Posted by dilbertgeg at 10/01/2007 @ 10:42pm
Thank you Katrina for speaking truth. If allow the Bushevics to drift us into another war it will mean the end of America. The end of empire is already nigh. If we don't stop the crazies the end of America will follow in rapid succession.
Posted by wolfdog at 10/01/2007 @ 10:48pm
KvH, I have a serious question. Have you ever written an article explaining your relationship with Averill Harriman, who appointed Prescott Bush to run UBC and United Steel Works, and Silesian (Auschwitz), thereby funding the Nazi war machine?
How did you go from that to The Nation? Two or Three Degrees of Separation from George W. Bush. I'm sincerely curious about that, because your views are otherwise great. Is it the GATEKEEPER thing?
Even if ppl DO NOT think that 9-11 was a Bush Plan -- even though Neo-Cons wrote about planning for it -- there are certainly many unanswerable questions, including the mere fact of obstructing the investigation as long as possible, and crapping on Cleland.
Most sincerely, Gary
Posted by dilbertgeg at 10/01/2007 @ 10:48pm
Posted by ACOOK 10/01/2007 @ 4:24pm
ah divine ACOOK! we have yet to even try...
actually mr. boogeyman-epitome-of-all-evil TRIED to do just that - wanted to go to ground zero and pay respect...
but i guess idiots think he is osama bin laden or something...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:07pm
Posted by W_M_BEAR 10/01/2007 @ 7:41pm
not a problem dude, just wanted to make sure you hadn't lost your mind.
anytime you see me doing the same, don't hesitate.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:23pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 10/01/2007 @ 9:01pm
well, fool me once......................
i thank mr. hersh for his diligence, even if it turns out wrong.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:25pm
but i guess idiots think he is osama bin laden or something...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:07pm
he isn't?
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:27pm
No. He's not. I think things he says get blown out of proportion. Watch an interview on YouTube of him. He actually sounds very down to earth. Not a popular position I know.
Posted by Waltz at 10/01/2007 @ 11:32pm
Carter sucked too. He raised defense expenditures by $10 billion when he claimed he was going to lower them. Iran only had the hostages because they wanted the U.S. backed jerk to be sent back to Iran so they could put him on trial.
Posted by Waltz at 10/01/2007 @ 11:34pm
Posted by WALTZ 10/01/2007 @ 11:34pm
people are sooo ignorant about how we trashed their democracy in 53...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:37am
Yes they are. Look it up folks. Iran. 1953. U.S.
Posted by Waltz at 10/02/2007 @ 12:53am
a new interview with mr. hersh from Spiegel Online [alternet.org]
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 01:22am
WAR DRUMS, DEATH BEAT
(thank you for standing up,Katrina)
-"...bombing Iran would be suicidal" -- editors, the Binghamton Press & Sun Bulletin
-"..as an American and as a Jew I hope with all my heart that he does it." N. Podhoretz
-http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c=JPArticle&cid=1189411522274&pa gename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
"Approximately 72 percent of Israelis support the use of nuclear weapons in certain circumstances, according to a Canadian survey released recently"
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411516007&pagename=JPost% 2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Bolton: Attack Iran, 'remove' its leader. Former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told Tory delegates in Britain Sunday that efforts by the UK and the EU to negotiate with Iran had failed and that he saw no alternative to a pre-emptive strike on suspected nuclear facilities in the country. *****
A Blog against Zionist Fascism in Two Parts
PART ONE
. REPUBLICAN JEWS BEHIND THE SURGE TO COMMIT ATROCITY IN IRAN : New Neocons: "FREEDOM''S WATCH" -- The Orwellian Lie is its Name
THOSE WHO ARE POISONING AMERICA: Sponsoring "a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam" -- Next Target: Iran policy BACKDOOR BLACKWATER BACKERS?
Fantasy memes
1. "Ronald Reagan" for ideology
2. Daddy Warbucks coming to the aid of Little Orphan Annie
3. Claiming responsibility for Urging the September Surge (reversal of '06 vote) 3A Return to the scene of their crime to pick up the booty (given the Rep. party collapse)
4. (->) Hand-0ff of Military Ball from Pace (pace Petraeus) to Mike Mullen (-igan)
5. bombing Ahmadinejad, Hitler redux, labelled "terrorist" (echo: John Bolton; N Podhorrtz)
6. Continuing The Surge: on TV tonight 10.1 GOOD NEWS -dramatic decline in US deaths in Iraq! (and bemoaning the vacuum of "missing Republican party candidate")
6A Control of Campaign: Hillary's nickers vs. Limbaugh's snickers (or: looking for their ass in O'Reilly's sass -- All Gone (Al Gore wins; Donald Duck Trump looses).)
7. : ? ..... ("never-ending campaign")
This is the historical group-fantasy template of this group's actions in America. Leaving the outcome of the resonance of this Octave in TokenSpace, representing the note DO returned to in '08 as its completion, unfinished. The duty of all Americans is to identify and oppose its suffusions across the spectrum of conscious content (reality). This is a metaphysical appeal.
They are: The Arrangers: Miixing and Matching Sign-Uses
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/us/politics/30watch.html?_r=1&oref=slo gin
Big Coffers and a Rising Voice Lift a New Conservative Group
Freedom's Watch, a deep-pocketed conservative group led by two former senior White House officials, made an audacious debut in late August when it began a $15 million advertising campaign designed to maintain Congressional support for President Bush's troop increase in Iraq.
Founded this summer by a dozen wealthy conservatives, the nonprofit group is set apart from most advocacy groups by the immense wealth of its core group of benefactors, its intention to far outspend its rivals and its ambition to pursue a wide-ranging agenda. Its next target: Iran policy.
Next month, Freedom's Watch will sponsor a private forum of 20 experts on radical Islam that is expected to make the case that Iran poses a direct threat to the security of the United States, according to several benefactors of the group.
Although the group declined to identify the experts, several were invited from the American Enterprise Institute, a Washington research group with close ties to the White House. Some institute scholars have advocated a more confrontational policy to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, including keeping military action as an option.
Last week, a Freedom's Watch newspaper advertisement called President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran "a terrorist." The group is considering a national advertising campaign focused on Iran, a senior benefactor said, though Matt S. David, a spokesman for the group, declined to comment on those plans.
"If Hitler's warnings were heeded when he wrote ‘Mein Kampf,' he could have been stopped," said Bradley Blakeman, 49, the president of Freedom's Watch and a former deputy assistant to Mr. Bush. "Ahmadinejad is giving all the same kind of warning signs to us, and the region -- he wants the destruction of the United States and the destruction of Israel."
With a forceful message and a roster of wealthy benefactors, Freedom's Watch has quickly emerged from the crowded field of nonprofit advocacy groups as a conservative answer to the nine-year-old liberal MoveOn.org which vehemently opposes the Iraq war.
The idea for Freedom's Watch was hatched in March at the winter meeting of the Republican Jewish Coalition in Manalapan, Fla., where Vice President Dick Cheney was the keynote speaker, according to participants. Next week, the group is moving into a 10,000-square-foot office in the Chinatown section of Washington, with plans to employ as many as 50 people by early next year.
One benefactor, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the group was hoping to raise as much as $200 million by November 2008. Raising big money "will be easy," the benefactor said, adding that several of the founders each wrote a check for $1 million. Mr. Blakeman would not confirm or deny whether any donor gave $1 million, or more, to the organization.
Since the group is organized as a tax-exempt organization, it does not have to reveal its donors and it can not engage in certain types of partisan activities that directly support political candidates. It denies coordinating its activities with the White House, although many of its donors and organizers are well connected to the administration, including Ari Fleischer the former White House press secretary.
"Ideologically, we are inspired by much of Ronald Reagan's thinking -- peace through strength, protect and defend America, and prosperity through free enterprise," Mr. Fleischer said.
Among the group's founders are Sheldon G. Adelson, the chairman and chief executive of the Las Vegas Sands Corporation, who ranks sixth on the Forbes Magazine list of the world's billionaires; Mel Sembler, a shopping center magnate based in St. Petersburg, Fla., who served as the ambassador to Italy and Australia; John M. Templeton Jr., the conservative philanthropist from Bryn Mawr, Pa.; and Anthony H. Gioia, a former ambassador to Malta who heads an investment group based in Buffalo, N.Y. All four men are long-time prolific donors who have raised money on behalf of Republican and conservative causes.
For years, the group's founders lamented MoveOn's growing influence, derived in large part from its grass-roots efforts, especially on the debate about the Iraq war. "A bunch of us activists kept watching MoveOn and its attacks on the war, and it just got to be obnoxious," said Mr. Sembler, a friend of Vice President Dick Cheney. "We decided we needed to do something about this, because the conservative side was not responding."
Mr. Sembler, who is on the board of directors of the American Enterprise Institute, said the impetus for Freedom's Watch "came out of A.E.I." last winter. He said that at an institute event in December 2006 he listened to retired Gen. Jack Keane and Frederick W. Kagan, an A.E.I. scholar, talk about the need for a troop increase in Iraq, a plan adopted by Mr. Bush in January. "I realized it was not only what we needed to do," Mr. Sembler said, "but we needed to articulate this message across the country."
Mr. Sembler also said he was frustrated that he heard reports at institute events earlier this year that the increase was working, but that the news media was not reflecting the progress.
Mr. Fleischer said: "After the president announced the surge, and even Rrpublicans started getting nervous, there was a palpable fear among several of us that this fall Congress was going to cut off the funding and the Middle East would explode and America would likely get hit. It really wasn't much more complicated than that."
Over the summer, Mr. Fleischer and the other founders recruited a president, choosing Mr. Blakeman, who served as a deputy assistant to the president in charge of scheduling and appointments. In 2000, Mr. Blakeman led the Bush-Cheney campaign's public relations effort during the 36 days of the deadlocked election. He left the White House in January 2004.
Mr. Blakeman and Mr. Fleischer said they intended to turn Freedom's Watch into a permanent fixture among Washington advocacy groups, waging a "never-ending campaign" on an array of foreign policy and domestic issues. They also hope to build an active, grass-roots support network.
But Eli Pariser, the executive director of MoveOn.org, which was founded in 1998 by two Silicon Valley venture capitalists, said he doubted the group's ability to meet that goal.
"This is the fourth or the fifth group that intends to be the right-wing MoveOn," Mr. Pariser said, naming other fledgling groups like TheVanguard.org and Grassfire.org. "So far, it's not clear that this group is anything other than a big neoconservative slush fund. They are a White House front group with a few consultants who are trying to make a very unpopular position on the war appear more palpable."
Like Freedom's Watch, MoveOn had its origins in an attempt by wealthy political donors, including George Soros, to shape the debate in Washington. MoveOn began shortly after the Starr report was delivered to Congress in September 1998, detailing accusations of perjury and obstruction of justice against President Bill Clinton .
Already, Freedom's Watch and MoveOn have clashed through competing advertisements over Gen. David Petraeus's war progress report to Congress earlier this month.
In one Freedom's Watch ad, Sgt. John Kriesel, a National Guardsman from Stillwater, Minn., who lost his legs in a bomb attack near Falluja, pleads with Congress and the American people not to "surrender" in Iraq. As the screen shows a still photograph of the second hijacked plane bearing down on the burning World Trade Center, Sergeant Kriesel adds, "They attacked us, and they will again. They won't stop in Iraq."
Several of the group's spots suggested that Iraq, rather than Al Queda, was behind the Sept. 11 attacks, even though the independent Sept. 11 commission investigation and other inquiries found no evidence of Iraq's involvement. But in August, when the organization rolled out the advertisement with Sergeant Kriesel to two focus groups in Pennsylvania, its upbeat, patriotic message was well received, even causing a few viewers to weep, Mr. Blakeman said.
"The focus groups couldn't tell whether it was a Republican ad or a Democratic ad," he said. "It was the voice of a soldier, and that's the message we want to deliver to Americans: listen to the opinions of real people."
The campaign was seen as a way to head off any momentum in Congress toward halting the financing for the Iraq war. The group's advertisements, placed in nearly 60 Congressional districts in 23 states, targeted wavering moderate Republicans and conservative Democrats.
Freedom's Watch also pounced on MoveOn.org's full-page "General Betray Us" advertisement published Sept. 10 in The New York Times. Mr. Bush called the advertisement "disgusting." Both chambers of Congress passed resolutions condemning the advertisement. The New York Times was also embroiled in the debate after giving MoveOn a discounted price for the advertisement, which the newspaper later acknowledged was a mistake. MoveOn has since agreed to pay the difference.
That advertisement, Mr. Blakeman said, "was an unexpected gift," allowing Freedom's Watch to "take the high road" and demonstrate that it is a "conservative voice that is not divisive."
Mr. Pariser, of MoveOn, said his group's grass-roots membership -- it claims 3.3 million members -- was the envy of Freedom's Watch. "I think people see that Freedom's Watch is a few billionaires, and not a large, mainstream constituency," he said.
Mr. Blakeman denied the accusation that Freedom's Watch is a White House front group. "I don't need their help," he said of his former colleagues at the White House. "I don't seek their help. And they don't offer it." Mr. Blakeman is a long-time friend of Ed Gillespie, the new counselor to Mr. Bush who succeeded Dan Bartlett. Mr. Blakeman said that he speaks with Mr. Gillespie, but that they are careful not to discuss the activities of Freedom's Watch.
Mr. Fleischer said Freedom's Watch was not coordinating with the White House and had an agenda beyond the Bush administration. "On Jan. 21, 2009, what will these critics say when we are still here, doing the same thing?" he said. "We will still be here after George Bush is gone."
******* THEY DON'T KNOW THEIR SHOW QUIT PLAYING IN AMERICA LONG AGO
Part Two - below
Posted by jones at 10/02/2007 @ 07:14am
but i guess idiots think he is osama bin laden or something...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:07pm
he isn't?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/01/2007 @ 11:27pm
They're both kinda brownish, right?
This is going to be sooo hard for some folks....when their whole county is kinda brownish one day, that is.
Posted by Malcontent at 10/02/2007 @ 07:17am
PART TWO. HOW THE MOSAIC DISTINCTION HAS SPLIT ZIONIST REPUBLICAN CHRISTIAN COHORTS (good)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/01/us/politics/01evangelicals.html?ref=po litics
Giuliani Inspires Threat of a Third-Party Run
WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 -- Alarmed at the possibility that the Republican Party might pick Rudolf W. Giuliani as its presidential nominee despite his support for abortion rights, a coalition of influential Christian conservatives is threatening to back a third-party candidate.
****** As if abortion was still a national HOT BUTTON ISSUE. It is not; it lost oxygen long ago, and as a token of "the unborn", "abortion clinics are like Nazi's killing Jews in gas chambers" one Catholic Archbishop allowed. It is a Group-Fantasy issue, a token of signs connecting to the fetal origins of experience (the birth-rebirth repetition-compulsion). Psychohistorically, it first emerged when there was a kind of spiritual oxygen from the (mostly unconscious) sense of guilt for Vietnam war dead. This was displaced onto the fruit of the womb -- those with a sense of this as "sinful", acted out "Rescue missions" to SAVE THE UNBORN SOULS. (=> their own). OPERATION RESCUE was the name of the rag tag group in Binghamton, New York started up by Randall Terry in the 1970's. This was a false, displaced psycho-cultural event after the 60's, fracturing the White Ray that had shown through briefly, then. It was a deep response from conscience, but, formed by displacement from the latent, accusing image of dead soldiers, onto the image of the yet-to-be-born, the impulses it motivates are projectively located outward, in the pregnant belly of the Great Mother, altogether distinct from little Orphan Annie sisters, where they perpetually threatening to Return and Kill us, for Killing Them (substitution of dead soldiers, dead Jews in the holocaust, aborted fetuses) if they are not "saved" from the moment of conception.
Now, what goes around ... then ... has come around ...now .. . as the Vietnam war-guilt displacement has rolled down hill as it ran out of spiritual gas, from a band of dedicated believers to a gang of PR specialists -- to a line in the sand drawn between (self-styled) Christian right-wingers and Giuliani neocons. Giuliani is a Tolerant Catholic. Good combo in NYC, multicultic navel of earth. Abortion has crystalized into a Mosaic Distinction issue, an absolutized life and death line-in-the-sand opposition over 'nothing but' sign-use (which, though, determines how the object is mentally addressed and thought about). Coming home to roost, or bottoming out, in the residual regiosity of Southron-flavored mentality, the Christian Conservatives are splitting from abortion-tolerant Republicans on the basis of a Mosaicized Distinction (actually nowhere in the Bible, except from some contorted interpretations of Old Testament passages).
For the sake of Reference: Let the impetus crystalizating in Freedom's Watch, flowing through it, outward to the periphery and downward into the psychic interior, be given the status of a named entity -- a being-manifestation grasped as a unity, or whole, through its Form. This Form is a Spiralic Totality, completing itself along the lines of a great Karmic Cycle.
*******# US relations to Israel now has roughly the same effect on America's social mentality as Israel Acute Paralysis Virus has on bee hives. (but causes and effects are easily confused on this).
Posted by jones at 10/02/2007 @ 07:18am
.when their whole county is kinda brownish one day, that is.
Posted by MALCONTENT 10/02/2007 @ 07:17am
well, we've already done our part here!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 08:09am
Don't let the Jews get over with this one folks
Posted by jones at 10/02/2007 @ 08:44am
www.ambassadorsofislam.com Mr. Bush and his acolytes got it all wrong: they misunderstood Iraq, its culture and its history. The nation had been subdued earlier many times but its will could never be broken. Their humanity, dignity, self-respect and cultural divinity had always remained intact and the nation always bounced back from the worst of the times. This time, however, the nation has been struck at the very roots of its identity. The division of Iraq on Shia, Sunnis and Kurds lines is equivalent to disregarding and disrespecting the very history, civilisation and identity of Iraq. It has really worked for Iraq's detractors and played havoc with Iraq at all levels.The cost, in men and material, of Bush's adventure in Iraq is tremendous, mind-boggling and unprecedented. It defies all logic. Please log into www.ambassadorsofislam.com to read on...
Posted by DrSyedJaved at 10/02/2007 @ 08:55am
Don't let the Jews get over with this one folks
Posted by JONES 10/02/2007 @ 08:44am | ignore this person
anti-semitism.
this is what it has always looked like.
Posted by johannesrolf at 10/02/2007 @ 10:09am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 10/02/2007 @ 10:09am
testing 1. 2. 3.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 10:49am
Ok, think of Iraq as a million Katrina N.O. aftermath's just waiting for the dem's to actually get in there and fully investigate all the mega illegalities/corruption and incompetence's administered by the hsuB/cHeney mis-admin. What better way to sweep it 'all' under the rug so-to-speak than to goad Iran into a war where Iran sweeps into Iraq and the US military has no choice than to bomb both Iraq and Iran to such a massive extent than all the shit the hsuB/cHeney admin pulled there prior to that, will be seen as a tiny mole hill in comparison.
Yep, unless we start pushing hard, really hard, for impeachment-- before hsuB/cHeney have a chance to pull this off, they will. They no longer care about a continuing repub legacy 2008, they're way too busy covering their own asses to care about anything else. They are trapped/cornered and as paranoid as crazed animals and willing to do whatever it takes to cover it all up.
But like crazed animals, if one of them stands in the way of the other one's escape, it'll turn on the other. The only way for that to happen is impeachment proceedings.
Posted by hsuBfools at 10/02/2007 @ 11:56am
http://tinyurl.com/26v4d9
Posted by hsuBfools at 10/02/2007 @ 11:56am
Don't let the Jews get over with this one folks
Posted by JONES 10/02/2007 @ 08:44am | ignore this person
anti-semitism.
this is what it has always looked like.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 10/02/2007 @ 10:09am | ignore this person *** Whenever criticism has been made with justification equal to that deserved by Zionist Fascism now, it has been justified ('anti-semitism').
Posted by jones at 10/02/2007 @ 12:46pm
This is why ron paul gets my vote big time.
Posted by stopthewarnow at 10/02/2007 @ 8:44pm
People are stupid. Nice article.
Posted by johnson542 at 10/03/2007 @ 03:52am
If this ultra long winded, but good, summary of social psychopathy is applied to the topic here, the projected assault on Iran for the sake of Zionist Jews and homosexuals, it comes down to the (mainly) Jewish Republicans who Urged the September Surge, and, in fact, controlled the foreign and domestic policies of this country through sock puppet imbeciles like George Bush.
I posted a blog with this application partly spelled out, above. Follow your argument where it leads, Rese.
Posted by jones at 10/03/2007 @ 04:13am
If the US is targetting "terrorist support" facilities, that could mean a large number of targets indeed. The Republican Guard has offices in every Iranian city, training camps, supply depots, etc. The Lieberman-Kyl (or Lieberman-Kill) Amendment basically declares war on all of Iranian society.
Sadly this is nothing new. From WWII to "Operation Iraqi Freedom," the US and other Western powers have resorted to wholesale bombing of the target society (in the war over Kosovo, NATO planes bombed apartment buildings, bridges, villages, jails, a TV station, a cafe, and other civilian targets). Who's to say what civilian target might not be of use to the Republican Guard?
Posted by tikhon_gilson at 10/03/2007 @ 7:00pm