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RedditBased on the work of Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Harvard public finance lecturer Linda J. Bilmes, the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) recently determined that the Iraq war costs $720 million per day, $500,000 per minute – enough to provide homes for nearly 6,500 families, or health care for 423,529 children in just one day.
AFSC is using ten, seven-foot banners displayed at legislative and congressional offices around the country to illustrate the costs of the war and the human needs that could be addressed with those same resources. The National Priorities Project (NPP) also has a new report on the Bush Administration's latest $50 billion spending request, which would bring the total cost of the Iraq War to $617 billion.
In addition to these staggering costs, we're also learning more about how this war has served as a boondoggle for defense contractors, with war profit-making gone out of control. The Nation's Jeremy Scahill was way ahead of the curve in reporting on Blackwater's role in the most radically privatized, outsourced war in history. (Last week, Jeremy was asked to testify before the Democratic Policy Committee about his work and reporting--which may well lead to some good reforms. )
The Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy has done important research in this area. Here are some of the more disturbing facts: CEOs of defense contractors are paid more in four days than a general earns in a year; since September 11, CEOs at top defense contractors have received annual pay gains between 200 percent to 688 percent; between 2002 and 2006, the seven highest paid defense contractor CEOs made nearly $500 million – General Dyanmics' CEO, Nicholas Chabraja, alone was paid $97.9 million, averaging $19.6 million per year. (David Lesar of Halliburton pocketed a mere $16 million per year during that period, and Lockheed Martin's Robert Stevens has cashed in on stock options to earn over $19 million so far this year.) Many of the CEOs profitted from stock options as their companies' stock prices soared with the increased revenues from the Defense Department.
Sarah Anderson, Director of the Global Economy Program at the Institute for Policy Studies, and Charlie Cray, Director of the Center for Corporate Policy, suggest that defense contractors' CEO pay be addressed directly by conditioning contracts on reasonable pay practices. For example, requiring that the CEO not make more than 25 times the lowest paid worker within the company or, alternatively, not more than 10 times the pay of a military general. This could be combined with other eligibility criteria such as no companies that relocated offshore, have a history of significant violations, or do business with states that sponsor terrorism. (Also, the disclosure rules for defense contractors should be broadened. Right now, privately held corporations are not required to make public their executive compensation. Thus, major players like Bechtel and Blackwater can keep their pay figures secret.) But Anderson and Cray believe that CEO pay is a symptom of a much broader problem – one that will only be addressed if we recognize that the entire defense and war contracting system is out of control.
"Companies like Halliburton/KBR and Blackwater are only the tip of the iceberg," Anderson says. "We now have contractors conducting intelligence background checks, processing Freedom of Information Act Requests, writing the President's daily brief, helping run prisons like Abu Ghraib, etc."
After years of almost zero oversight, these broader questions are finally being examined – at least to a degree. Certainly Representative Henry Waxman is doing his part as Chair of the House Committee on Government Oversight and Reform, looking at Iraq reconstruction corruption. And Senators Claire McCaskill and Jim Webb introduced legislation to establish a Commission on Wartime Contracting – a Truman-like Commission – to investigate waste and fraud in contracting. (Anderson and Cray suggest that the mandate for the Commission be broadened to look at the corporatization of war, intelligence, and other inherently governmental functions.) Other common-sense pieces of legislation include: the "Transparency and Accountability in Security Contracting Act", introduced by Rep. David Price, to ensure that private security contractors like Blackwater are accountable; and two 2006 contract reform bills – Rep. Waxman's "Clean Contracting Act" and Sen. Byron Dorgan's "Honest Leadership in Government Contracting Act" – both bills would limit no-bid contracts, provide criminal sanctions for fraud, and address conflicts-of-interest, revolving door and other issues.
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and war-making, and it has metastasized as this war has been increasingly privatized (there are now more contractors than soldiers in Iraq). Good small-d democrats need to keep watch on current legislation, hold our representatives accountable and and demand that they take bolder action to bring this system to an end.
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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KAT,
And this is the same government that you want to take over the US health care system?
And, don't try to blame it on the republicans, or say it'll be any different with a democrat in the white house, you know damn well that the democrats are in charge of the purse strings now,and they haven't curtailed any of these abuses, any more than the republican controlled congress did........The only answer to government abuse is less government, not different special interests in charge.....
Posted by davebarlett at 09/27/2007 @ 7:21pm
Zero, see post in "Giving back, Clinton style".......HILLBILLARY IS BACK!
Posted by davebarlett at 09/27/2007 @ 7:35pm
KVH: Sarah Anderson,....and Charlie Cray,....suggest that defense contractors' CEO pay be.....not make more than 25 times the lowest paid worker within the company or, alternatively, not more than 10 times the pay of a military general.
So, in Ms. Anderson and Mr. Cray's infinite wisdom, we can infer:
- A military general's pay should NOT be more than 2.5 times the lowest paid worker of some defense contractor
- A sole-source company bidding "Cost Plus" CAN up its pay scale so that the lowest paid workers' pay is $250k
Tell you what, why not just NATIONALIZE all defense contracting firms with more than say $1 Billion in Fed revenues and mandate that only retired generals can serve as their executives! Solve a lot of revolving-door problems where military purchasing has been implicated in lord knows how many scandals!
Posted by Happy at 09/27/2007 @ 7:45pm
yeah...i couldn't help but think during the debates last night when they were talking about social security...
we can afford to fight an unnecesary war, but...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 7:56pm
Nothing will change in Iraq no matter who enters the WH..and the US is going to be in Iraq for a long, long time.
Why is that so hard to see here?
Posted by john maasch at 09/27/2007 @ 8:00pm
stock market up! economy strong! so says mr. bush.
well, for him and his croneys...
but while they are making a killin...this is happening...
medianincome [csmonitor.com]
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 8:08pm
Remember when the antiwar base were talking about stopping the funding?? :-)
Posted by woodyee at 09/27/2007 @ 8:09pm
while our good paying jobs go overseas, SOME make a KILLIN.
yup...the young generation, much maligned for being slackers, chortled at for hangin out at ma and pa's too long, or depending on older family members...may be getting a raw deal...
when all the well paying entry level jobs get phased out and shipped off...guess what!?
they gettin PO!
but someone gettin RICH!
when i lived in latin america years ago i was astonished and appalled at the income difference between the wealthy and the non-wealthy. but looks like...
we are following their example.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 8:16pm
so our randian demigodly overmen pay themselves buzillions as a result of having shipped jobs to slave labor paying hellholes and ohnny and suzy...are somehow we must keep spending and spending in patriotic frenzy to enrich our overlords...
hey - there's always credit! thats cool...debt peonage! what a bright future our randian overlords have planned for us!
10 percent of the american population think they are in the top one percent of income earners. i wonder if 50 percent think they are in the top 20 percent...
and in that the more poor people there are, the richer the non poor feel...guess its to be expected...
you know? you got a decent job thats not getting outsourced. you got a decent house, some cable tv, a good car, and everyday more and more of your fellows get just a little bit poorer...so you think...
"hey! i must be rich! better vote republican. thats the rich party, cause those poor schmuks want all my bling! crap! i bet i'm in the top ten percenters...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 8:28pm
BUT!!!!!! (and everybody always got one...)
when schmuk nation actually asks for a cut in the profits (made possible by the exportation of their jobs)....ooooooh no, joe! thats "socialism!" your trying to take my bling, you lazy stupid spoiled serf! back in your cages! watch more tv! play some games. here...have a credit card. its all your fault. you dont work hard enough!
health care??? ha ha ha! you make better serfs when you die younger! you join the military more when you have less civilian opportunities!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 8:42pm
year after year after year...median income goes down and down and down...but the gnp goes up...the stock market goes up.
hmmm...whats going on here?
must be all the lazy bums...paying themselves a buzillion dollars a year...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 8:48pm
or do business with states that sponsor terrorism
shit, there go the u.s. contracts!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 8:50pm
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and war-making,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and health-care,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and voter representation,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and the environment,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and culture,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and food production,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and prisons,
It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and education,
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 8:54pm
and demand that they take bolder action to bring this system to an end.
[insert eisenhower quote here]
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 8:55pm
Tell you what, why not just NATIONALIZE all defense contracting firms
by Happy
they were nationalized (de factoedly) a long time ago.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 8:58pm
Why is that so hard to see here?
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 09/27/2007 @ 8:00pm
my god john.
you must be too far from the home-brew.
you're getting lucid.
careful.
;+]
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 8:59pm
when i lived in latin america years ago i was astonished and appalled at the income difference between the wealthy and the non-wealthy. but looks like...
we are following their example.
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 8:16pm
i'm watching it happen right here.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 9:01pm
i suppose our randian overlords have it all figured out.
eventually they wont need us to even buy all their chinese made plastic crap. 300 million americans...8 billion foriegners...even if they are slightly poorer...do the math.
makin a killin! loaded...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 9:02pm
BUT!!!!!! (and everybody always got one...)
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 8:42pm
not hank hill.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 9:04pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 9:02pm
they're gonna sell us to the chinese.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 9:05pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/27/2007 @ 9:04pm
yup
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 9:05pm
yup
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 9:08pm
yup
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 9:10pm
Really that's the best poor HAPPY can do.
He already collapsed into a pool of contradiction BOTH claiming that Iraq spending MIGHT have "long term benefit" and was worth it and how he "wasn't worried about deficits anymore" and gave a scenario whereby we just say "Nuh-huh" to our foreign debt holders.
So...aside from the call for salary caps, he really doesn't have a problem with spending the equivalent of an Apollo Saturn V moon mission....EVERY DAY! And never paying for it and getting nothing but dead GIs and a Shiite nascent dictatorship.
Posted by Mask at 09/27/2007 @ 9:19pm
so the qurestion is...
when does it end? how does it end?
almost one percent of our population behind bars already...
median income going down, down, down...
will there be enough left to salvage by the time enough wake up, stand up, and get scary?
or will getting scary just give our demigodly randian overlords the excuse to...put into practice law and order?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 9:21pm
Hank: So, how's the job going. Did you find the rats yet?
Dale : It's not rats.
Hank: It's not?
Dale: No. I'm gonna have to spend the night here.
Hank: If it's not rats, what is it?
Dale: I don't have time to explain, but it's Chuck Mangione.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 9:25pm
Posted by MASK 09/27/2007 @ 9:19pm |
ah...realpolitik...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 9:30pm
Well, Nixon's bad but he didn't steal your $ to feed his buddies. Dubya isn't bad but his acolytes're outright thieves.
------------
GALLUP: Trust in Federal Government, On Nearly All Issues, Hits New Low -- Even Less Than in Watergate Era
By E&P Staff September 27, 2007 10:30 AM ET
NEW YORK A new Gallup poll reveals that, as the organization puts it, Americans now "express less trust in the federal government than at any point in the past decade, and trust in many federal government institutions is now lower than it was during the Watergate era, generally recognized as the low point in American history for trust in government."
Among the findings: Barely half trust the government to handle international problems, the lowest number ever. And less than half express faith in the government handling domestic issues, the lowest findings since 1976.
Posted by HelenDAO at 09/27/2007 @ 9:44pm
Posted by DAVEBARLETT 09/27/2007 @ 7:21pm | ignore this person
this is a phony choice by a phony poster.we deserve an honest gov't, one that pays the health insurance bill, as it for a sizable part of the citizenry, AND keeps us out of corrupt, illegal and ruinous wars.
that choice requires we repudiate scum like Bartlett.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/27/2007 @ 9:50pm
...as it does....
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/27/2007 @ 9:52pm
War profiteering should be illegal. Sorry, Conservatives. Making money off of war should be considered the exact same as terrorism.
Sorry, Republicans.
Posted by conshame at 09/27/2007 @ 10:02pm
What a bargain: Give Saddam just $1 billioon and we could have Iraq, instead of $500 billion and counting. But no, Dubya would need a war for his own legacy, thoudsand lives, american and iraqi, lost be damned.
------------
Saddam asked Bush for $1bn to go into exile 27.09.07
Saddam Hussein is said to have offered to go into exile for $1bn George Bush was convinced that Saddam was serious about going into exile Saddam Hussein offered to step down and go into exile one month before the invasion of Iraq, it was claimed last night.
Fearing defeat, Saddam was prepared to go peacefully in return for £500million ($1billion).
The extraordinary offer was revealed yesterday in a transcript of talks in February 2003 between George Bush and the then Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar at the President's Texas ranch.
Posted by HelenDAO at 09/27/2007 @ 10:12pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 9:30pm
Best argument you can use against SUPPOSED "conservatives" out there who still support this boondoggle.
Ask them ...would they support such spending, with not just NO results, but counter-productive results if it was some "liberal social program"? Would they tolerate the same level of corruption from some "Federal hospital" under a Government-run health care system that they tolerate from Halliburton and KBR?
What POSSIBLE excuse can they give for Iraq spending...that now can't be used by a lib for ANY social program at home (and probably better)?
Posted by Mask at 09/27/2007 @ 10:15pm
FG, the Iran vote signed the Senate's name overwhelmingly to a statement claiming that George Bushs lies about Iran are all true. The ammendment from Lieberman-Kyl, was significant in that it quotes statements from Petraeus, Crocker, and the DOD - quoting not one single American with any credibility whatsoever. The ammendment then concludes, that since these lies are all true, that America must 1) "structure" Iraq in such a way as to save the middle east from Iran's "threat" to security. 2) prevent Iran's interests in the region, which supposedly include "subverting or co-opting legitimate Government" in Iraq. 3-4) dropped. 5) designate the Iranian Rev. Guards as terrorists, and 6) freeze assets. But, the real tragedy is, George Bush - with no credibility whatsoever, could not tell his lies because nobody believes him, Petraeus wasn't believed, Crocker wasn't believed, the Republican Senators aren't believed, and so half the Democrat Senators have stepped forward to be a bunch of Colon Piles for him.
Do not forget to acknowledge and thank the patriotic Democrat Senators for voting against the Iran ammendment, as well as condemning those who have failed us. If you thank them when they vote patriotic, it makes them do it more often.
Posted by conshame at 09/27/2007 @ 10:21pm
Posted by MASK 09/27/2007 @ 10:15pm
makes 'em feel powerful...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 10:22pm
Would they tolerate the same level of corruption from some "Federal hospital" under a Government-run health care system
Posted by MASK 09/27/2007 @ 10:15pm
walter reed?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 10:22pm
Conclusions 3 and 4 of the Iran ammendment were only dropped, because they made it too obvious declarations of war. The Iraq war was started, with more than half of Americans believing that it wasn't going to happen.
Posted by conshame at 09/27/2007 @ 10:24pm
Posted by CONSHAME 09/27/2007 @ 10:24pm | ignore this person
regardless of the amendment, do you think any of the democrats would use it to get us in a war with iran?
you know...if mushmouth inc. had a shred of sense...they would use their well earned rep for bloody fearsome irresponsible stupidity to open up NEGOTIATIONS with iran now...eu as good cop, us as evil cop...
"listen up you crazy towel heads! you know how stupidly violent i am! i'll bomb ya! i'll throw my countries economy down the toilet in a heartbeat. you know i will! you better make a deal!"
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 10:35pm
Funny, the chaps that whine the most about high taxes are cool with their money going to defense contractors, often with no oversight and with loooonnnnggg histories of cheating the public.
Why?
Because somewhere along the line a uniform is involved. Someone gets killed. They feel safe, even if the stats show they are not.
See previous posts on "Patriot missile systems". Also seek information on The Sergeant York, Air Force/contractor graft, Lockheed Martin cost over runs, Raytheon cost over runs and tie deadlines missed, The Osprey, Boeing cost over runs and contract deadlines missed, Northrop Grumman cost over runs and contract deadlines missed ... and on and on and on...
but, hey! I'm just a silly librool, what do I know about money and contracts? Or shepherding tax payer dollars? As long as sick kids don't lead us into socialism via the S-CHIPS program, it's all good for the top CEO's.
Jesus would be proud of people that make 600 times what they pay their staff. Cuz they deserve it.
Corporals don't.
(stock holders note: May 14, 2004
Raytheon Defendants To Pay $410 Million In Proposed Settlement Of All Claims Against Them In Securities Class Action
Settlement, If Approved By Court, Will Be Seventh Largest Securities Litigation Settlement In History, Suit To Continue Against Auditor
The Raytheon Company has agreed to pay $410 million in cash and warrants to settle all claims against it and several of its former top executives, including former Chairmen and CEO's Dennis J. Picard and Daniel P. Burnham, related to a securities class action, Alan G. Hevesi, New York State Comptroller and sole Trustee of the New York State Common Retirement Fund and Court-appointed Lead Plaintiff, announced today. If approved, this would be the seventh largest settlement in securities class action history.
...issued materially false and misleading statements that deceived the investing public as to the company's financial performance by accounting manipulations in the company's RE&C and RSC divisions. Raytheon Defendants are alleged to have violated federal securities laws by issuing such materially false and misleading statements involving serious accounting irregularities and failures to comply with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) in reporting the financial results for RE&C and RSC. Additionally, the defendants are alleged to have failed to disclose that a key government defense project to refurbish P-3 Orion aircraft for the US Navy was materially behind schedule and over budget.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 10:44pm
Would they tolerate the same level of corruption from some "Federal hospital" under a Government-run health care system
Posted by MASK 09/27/2007 @ 10:15pm
walter reed?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/27/2007 @ 10:22pm
By Steve Vogel Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, September 27, 2007; Page A01
More than half a year after disclosures of systemic problems at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and other military hospitals, the Pentagon's promised fixes are threatened by staff shortages and uncertainty about how best to improve long-term care for wounded troops, according to a congressional report issued yesterday.
"After so many promises but so little progress, we need to see more concrete results," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (Va.), the ranking Republican on the panel. His staff hears "appalling stories" every week from soldiers dealing with the disability process, he said, adding that "they're trapped in a system they don't understand and that doesn't understand them."
He must hate America.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 10:49pm
My fellow Americans:
Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.
This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.
Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.
Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.
My own relations with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and, finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.
In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the national good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the Nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.
II.
We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations. Three of these involved our own country. Despite these holocausts America is today the strongest, the most influential and most productive nation in the world. Understandably proud of this pre-eminence, we yet realize that America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.
III.
Throughout America's adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.
Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.
Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research -- these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.
But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.
The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.
IV.
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present
and is gravely to be regarded. Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
V.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
VI.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.
VII.
So -- in this my last good night to you as your President -- I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.
You and I -- my fellow citizens -- need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.
To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:
We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 10:53pm
damn - that was of resian proportions...sorry...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 10:53pm
Posted by CRABWALK 09/27/2007 @ 10:44pm
hey there, mr crabs (do you walk sideways?--please answer the question!)
some one isn't being too nice to you over here:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/allcomments?pid=237360&rpg=2#pid2 37714
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 10:59pm
"and demand that they take bolder action to bring this system to an end."
[insert eisenhower quote here]
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/27/2007 @ 8:55pm
wow, IBBLELBIBLEIBLEIBLEIBLBLIELBIELBLE
i didn't think you'd insert the whole dang thing.
o=}
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 11:04pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/27/2007 @ 11:04pm |
heehee...didn't realize what i'd done til i'd done it...unlike mushmouth, who still doesnt realize...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 11:28pm
....open up NEGOTIATIONS with iran now...eu as good cop, us as evil cop...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 10:35pm
Iran is a much tougher deal than Iraq! Iraq, under Saddam, was a certifiable bad actor...multiple wars, confirmed WMD program & usage, blah, blah, blah....
What do you suggest as to negotiating w/Iran? Britain, France & Germany tried between 2003-2005 (we were otherwise occupied w/some war).....their carrots were rejected and sticks weren't big enough! Now, by some accouts, Iran has mastered uranium enrichment and just needs to get enough centrifuges spinning, followed by marrying warhead to its existing ballastic missiles.
A daring "trust but verify" thought I have is to let them have the `carrot' of nukes (weapons) but in exchange, Iran must stop supporting terrorists everywhere (our carrot). As for `sticks', make it clear to Iran that if they continue to support terrorist groups, IF there is EVER an terror incident involving nuke(s) and there is the slightest suspicion of Iranian complicity, Tehran will be obliterated without warning! Iran probably won't agree, but this ought to be enough to get things rolling!
I'd like to hear any suggestions you have!
Posted by Happy at 09/27/2007 @ 11:37pm
Frosty, the name comes from:
A Spicy bean burrito digesting slowly in my gut
Watching Family Guy featuring Lindsay Lohan
A couple of beers
I can usually argue many sides of an issue, depending on who I am arguing against
I can hold paradoxical views simultaneously
sometimes I refuse to answer questions directly
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:41pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 11:28pm
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
George Walker Bush (April 9, 1999)
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 11:41pm
"What you cannot see during the day, you will not see at night."
West African proverb
"Where error gets to, correction cannot reach."
Ghanaian proverb
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/27/2007 @ 11:43pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/27/2007 @ 11:37pm
A little late, but how about we not put 300,000 US soldiers on Irans borders and make them part of a mythical "Axis of Evil" while they are helping us in the GWOT?
Remember, Achminjaed won his election because of your invasion of his neighbor, HAPPYCOWARD.
(Did you hear the one about Senator Ahdidhiminthejohn?)
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:45pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/27/2007 @ 11:37pm |
i just think while the current admin is in, with their bellicose record...why not get something out of it?
but when they wont go to the negotiating table...the scary fearsomely reckless reputation is sort of wasted...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 11:45pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/27/2007 @ 10:59pm
crabby is a female...i think...
or am i misunderemembering?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 11:48pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/27/2007 @ 11:37pm
oohh, oohh, wait! I have the answer.
Lets get a bunch of cocaine, sell it and then use the proceeds to buy some missiles for Iran, in direct violation of US law. Then we can lie to congress about the whole thing.
Or has that been done already?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:49pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 11:48pm
I'm a hot-cool man-woman, indifferent to ambivalence.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:50pm
"What you cannot see in the daylight, you will step in at night"
West Texas proverb
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:52pm
some one isn't being too nice to you over here
Leroy is just cranky because his theories don't hold up in the real world. And he trusts the current guvt of America, whose pronouncements keep coming up short of the truth. Kind of like a nookyular wedgie for the mind.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/27/2007 @ 11:58pm
Posted by CRABWALK 09/27/2007 @ 11:50pm | ignore this person
i'm a mute voice screaming at a deaf universe...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/27/2007 @ 11:59pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 11:59pm
"If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong"- Click and Clack, the tappet bros.
-night. Pulling for the Buddhists in Burma. Religion Dun Rite.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 12:05am
Or has that been done already?
Posted by CRABWALK 09/27/2007 @ 11:49pm
yeah, but these guys could do it worsely betterish
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 12:06am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 12:05am
men are merely evil...women, however, are mean...nietszche
according to your prior post - yer scary - lol
nite...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 12:08am
"What you cannot see in the daylight, you will step in at night"
West Texas proverb
Posted by CRABWALK 09/27/2007 @ 11:52pm
hey, can't top that one!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 12:12am
i'm a mute voice screaming at a deaf universe...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 11:59pm
what's that?
can't hear you.
please stop mummblbmeblebmebmbmbling and speak up.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 12:14am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 12:14am
listen to silence and see nothing!
lol
drooling time approaches...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 12:31am
drooling time approaches...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 12:31am
what, is msnbc re-running last night's debate?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 12:40am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 12:40am
nah - the scottish guy who follows letterman is on...
yeah...nite
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 12:47am
This is plain adultery between the Republican Party (RP) and the companies (CS) that benefit with war. The RP gets them contracts and money, the CS repays helping them get power and into who knows; nobody will ever know??
There has always been this semi-economic science from the RP: "fund the CS, and economy will grow". Uhh, perhaps sometimes, yes to some extent but the multiplication effect most of the time is simply not there, i.e. the economic circle stops in the pockets of the CEO's and a bunch of selected major stock owners, they simply may accumulate wealth or invest in another countries. ..but the resources of the government are OUR resources, we are the ones that are funding the richest instead of funding for better health care for our families!! Who understands it?
Is America heading towards its saddest decline? That is to be only competitive in the global economic market in war games? Sustaining only the value of the dollar out of fear of the rest of the world? Hope not, hope there is a serious overturn that is a net flux of income to the middle and lower classes so they can consume, produce and invest instead of only trying to survive.
Posted by Frank42 at 09/28/2007 @ 02:36am
While Lieberman has us looking in the other direction, W has been given the ability to call Iran's Republican Guard a terrorist group. Any action (or reaction) on their part becomes a terrorist act, something that he has been authorized to respond to for quite some time.
Posted by drhammer at 09/28/2007 @ 07:25am
Enjoy your vacuous election, Democrats, that transpire while we complain on about aspects of the terrible status quo like wars being fought mercenary armies that, insanely, are allowed to illegal organize, train, and arm, within the domestic US, as businesses. Are you so deluded that you can still manage to somehow care at all??
Posted by ZERO 09/27/2007 @ 7:25pm
Well said ZERO. I am seriously considering not voting at all in this election since I don't have any representation. I've voted mostly democrat my whole life, but I am growing weary of the final selections we are given.
Bill Clinton was actually a moderate republican who just taxed the wealthy but allowed businesses to operate pretty much the same as Bush. Bush just figured that he could raid the cookie jar (social security and tax money) and also let big business run rampant. So here we sit with a never ending war, huge deficit and nothing but trouble on the horizon.
The only true democrats to run recently for the office of president recently have been Tom Harkin and George McGovern and one didn't even win the democratic nomination and the other lost the presidential election big time.
We, the democrats of old, have no representation. So the only power we have is to either vote for the lesser of two evils, or just not vote at all. Maybe if we don't vote, our party will pull it's head out of it's ass and get us some people who really stand for us and not corporate America, but I don't think we'll ever see that happen.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 07:36am
crabby is a female...i think...
or am i misunderemembering?
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 11:48pm | ignore this person
Ib, c'mon, you can't be that dense. Crabwalk is by profession a blacksmith. how many female blacksmiths are there?
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 07:44am
Bill Clinton was actually a moderate republican who just taxed the wealthy but allowed businesses to operate pretty much the same as Bush. Bush just figured that he could raid the cookie jar (social security and tax money)
let's be honest here. Clinton too raided the social security fund. in fact, his much vaunted surplus would vanish, when the social security bundle is subtracted.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 07:50am
I am seriously considering not voting at all in this election
this moldy old fig again? who cares if you vote?
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 07:51am
Maybe if we don't vote,
nothing will happen. you think any candidate will lose sleep over those that DON'T vote?
by all means blow a lot of hot air here, and then let the others decide.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 07:53am
Maybe if we don't vote,
nothing will happen. you think any candidate will lose sleep over those that DON'T vote?
by all means blow a lot of hot air here, and then let the others decide.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 07:53am
JR, What the hell is the matter with you today? Wake up on the wrong side of the bed or what?
Of course I know that nobody gives a shit if I vote or not, but if a large number of people don't vote and Hilary loses, then the democratic party will maybe hear that.
That is what I was talking about, not whether or not my single vote would make a difference. You blow quite a bit of your own hot air pal. I thought we were supposed to be talking about our political views, not what makes JR happy or not.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 08:07am
Wolfie, I AM expressing my political views. I'm sorry if they seem harsh to you.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 08:16am
Of course I know that nobody gives a shit if I vote or not, but if a large number of people don't vote and Hilary loses, then the democratic party will maybe hear that.
the party will not hear that, because a huge segment does not bother to vote. you wanna be in that number?
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 08:23am
Wolfie, I AM expressing my political views. I'm sorry if they seem harsh to you.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 08:16am
JR, OK, so here are our choices as democrats at present.
1) We can choose from Hilary, Obama or Edwards. Non of those people will come forward and say that they will get our troops out of Iraq. Considering that the reason the dems took Congress back is because of that issue and they haven't withheld the pursse to stop Bush from waging war, but have recently given him more money to continue on.
So a vote for Hilary, Edwards or Obama, means we stay in Iraq and pretty much continue down the road we are on, but maybe increase taxes on the wealthy but still screw ourselves in the long run.
2) We don't vote at all and Thompson, Guiliana, or one of the other rethugs wins and we end up on the same road we are on.
So, from what I see, there isn't much difference between option 1 and 2. Option two means that the rethugs win the election and inherit their own mess to clean up while the democrats will have to wonder why they lost their base votes. So, maybe we lose this presidential election, but the democratic party actually listens to their constituents so they can actaully win an election.
Even if I didn't vote in the presidential election, I would still vote in the local and state elections. They have a more direct effect on what happens to me personally than the federal elections anyway.
Mostly I am throwing ideas out here to hear a good counter reason for voting for Clinton in the coming election from some people who share roughly the same political views. So far from the debates and what the candidates have said, we are stuck in Iraq.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 08:33am
So, from what I see, there isn't much difference between option 1 and 2
I could not disagree more.
the BIG lie that there is no difference between the dems and the repubs are what got us into this fix in the first place, resulting in Bush2.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 08:42am
So, maybe we lose this presidential election, but the democratic party actually listens to their constituents so they can actaully win an election.
this pure phantasy. we cannot afford another repub at the nation's helm. getting Sie real, Wolfgang.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 08:44am
there is a lot of time left until the election. the candidates positions will sharpen as time goes on. the choice among the dems will become sharper. even the worst of the dems is leagues better that the best of the repubs, and the country knows it. there will NOT be another repub in the white house, maybe not in my lifetime.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 08:48am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/27/2007 @ 10:53pm
What's interesting, IBBLE, is that...the Left constantly brings up Ike's warning about the "military-industrial complext"...
yet almost NEVER brings up his warning about the scientifictechnological elite".
Why is that?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 08:59am
After watching Bush and company mismanage this terror war logistically almost from the start, my biggest concern now is the state of the Army. Sources will tell you that our volunteer force is comprised of 10 divisions and 3 or 4 independent brigades. There are already signs that we are stretched too thin (ie, we are alright for the present provided nothing else goes wrong anywhere else for a while). The idea of a draft has to be something the gov. is quietly considering. Problem is, none of the candidates are going to touch it with a ten ft pole. Which means we either get out of Iraq, not feasible now, or we force our army to struggle under these same conditions for at least another year (+ the time it takes to get the infrastructure set up and some effective troops out as a result of it.) We'll be lucky if we have an Army left by then.
Long Live TR :)
Chip
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/28/2007 @ 09:01am
there is a lot of time left until the election. the candidates positions will sharpen as time goes on. the choice among the dems will become sharper. even the worst of the dems is leagues better that the best of the repubs, and the country knows it. there will NOT be another repub in the white house, maybe not in my lifetime.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 08:48am
JR, I hope you are right. I didn't say I wasn't going to vote, I said I was thinking about not voting.
My big complaint is that the people running for the Whitehouse won't make a stand against Bush. Why in the hell don't they come out and attack the sob for all the crap he and his corrupt administation have done? I guess I am too much of a purist, but Jesus, these people would rather play politics than even try to do the right thing.
They are so flippin worried about getting the middle of the road republican vote that they forget what they stand for. Being a good leader requires a litte intestinal fortitude.
Maybe you are right though. Maybe they are making promises to some of these people they don't intend to keep, just to be elected. Kind of like Bush with his compassionate conservatism. Bush has shown neither compassion nor has he been conservative with the budget.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 09:03am
After watching Bush and company mismanage this terror war logistically almost from the start, my biggest concern now is the state of the Army
how humane of you. 19900 000 dead Iraqis, 4 million displaced, thousands of dead americans, tens of thousands maimed, no worries.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 09:40am
look Wolf, my point is that not voting is a dead end. I feel I have been as clear as possible. please don't mind my disagreeing with you, even if I may have been a tad disagreeable. we agree on most everything else.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 09:42am
100 000 dead Iraqis.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 09:43am
Ib, c'mon, you can't be that dense. Crabwalk is by profession a blacksmith. how many female blacksmiths are there?
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 07:44am
a few, and many of them are damn good. Look up Elizabeth Brim, Nana Showalter, Dorothy Steigler. Ms. Brim makes the most beautiful lingerie out of sheet metal. Truly amazing stuff.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 09:55am
Life's a bitch, isn't it?
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/28/2007 @ 09:58am
Of course I know that nobody gives a shit if I vote or not, but if a large number of people don't vote and Hilary loses, then the democratic party will maybe hear that.
I don't think this is true. Many thousands of us voted for Nader, the dems (wrongly) accused Nader of costing Gore The Loser the election. Has it changed any dems stance? I don't think so. They keep moving toward the money, toward big bidness.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON 09/28/2007 @ 09:01am
That's YOUR boy! Your words tell RIO types that you must hate America. The Army is fine, just ask chimpy McFlightsuit or one of his dedicate followers.
Posted by WOLFGANG1 09/28/2007 @ 08:33am
there are more choices than you mention. vote for Richardson in a primary or caucus. He has the most experience and is a darn smart feller. The "liberal media" has already decided he is toast, why I dont know. Lets prove them wrong.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 10:04am
A recent analysis claimed over 1 million Iraqis have now been killed since 2003. I forget the source, looking it up as time permits...
But hey, I am sure they deserved it. They were probably lazy or uneducated, or something.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 10:08am
QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS
Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,135,000
Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 1.3 million to 1.75 million
Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect
Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%
Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)
Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%
Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000
Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000
Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000
Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)
Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007
Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007
Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24
Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%
Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)
Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%
RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)
Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%
Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%
Iraqis who feel less ecure because of the occupation - 67%
Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%
****
Estimated Insurgency Strength, Nov 2003 - 15,000
Estimated Insurgency Strength, Oct 2006 - 20,000 - 30,000
Estimated Insurgency Strength, June 2007 - 70,000
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 10:15am
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 08:59am | ignore this person
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
yeah...but i dont think its even possible to go back to blackboards and dusty shops...especially with all these newfangled electronic computers...
ike was a great guy and a good pres...
i hate that he supported our democracy destroying intervention in iran and guatemala, though he was the last pres to stand up to israel (and france/england...) in the 56 suez canal crisis...which seems oh so strange these days...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:25am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 09:55am | ignore this person
cool. you seem to be however not in their number, which was my point.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 10:26am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:15am
thank god we got rid of that madman who made the life of his people so hellish...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:30am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 10:25am |
I just notice a lot of "Pick 'n Choose" when it comes to Ike (who I agree was a good President) and that speech. I wonder how many even KNOW about his warning about a "scientific-technological elite" who know about his "MIC" comment?
BTW, notice that a lot of those same folks are John Kennedy fans...and "forget" that Kennedy ran in 1960 basically saying "Ike is weak on defense!" ("missile gap").
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 10:34am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 10:26am |
some frequent poster here who i assumed was a male is a female...but not crabbie...
maasch? LOL
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:34am
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 10:34am |
who do you agree with 100%, 100% of the time?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 10:38am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 10:34am
I bet maasch cannot even reach around to find his feminine side.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 10:40am
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 10:34am
yeah...you just cant miss the MIC thing coming out of ike's mouth if your left of neocon...too juicy a tidbit...
actually, sans vietnam and the counter culture, i think nixon would have been a great president. in terms of policy he was more liberal than carter or clinton...lol...champion of "the little guy"...but i think them crazy free lovin' pot smokin' hippy kids combined with the first horribly misthought out interventionist quagmire land war of post ww2 unhinged the man...
too bad.
"i am not a crook"
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:42am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:40am
barry25? he IS a bitch... hee hee...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:44am
Elizabeth Brim....................................
http://www.mccollcenter.org/site/images/gal_brim%202.jpg
that's really cool
"hey, honey! forget the latex. we're going metallic tonight..................
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:44am
The "liberal media" has already decided he is toast, why I dont know. Lets prove them wrong.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:04am
well, he ain't the prettiest..................
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:46am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:40am |
but does he have the comon decency to give a reach around?
he does sort of reach around his head to pick his nose sometimes when argueing...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:46am
Richardson is charisma challenged. would make a good vice though.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 10:48am
QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS
by crab
hey you should have posted the whole dang thing:
US SPENDING IN IRAQ
Spent & Approved War-Spending - About $600 billion of US taxpayers' funds. President Bush is expected to request another $200 billion for 2008, which would bring the cumulative total to close to $800 billion.
U.S. Monthly Spending in Iraq - $12 billion, in 2007
U.S. Daily Spending in Iraq - over $200 million, in 2007
Cost of deploying one U.S. soldier for one year in Iraq - $390,000 (Congressional Research Service)
Lost & Unaccounted for in Iraq - $9 billion of US taxpayers' money and $549.7 milion in spare parts shipped in 2004 to US contractors. Also, per ABC News, 190,000 guns, including 110,000 AK-47 rifles.
Mismanaged & Wasted in Iraq - $10 billion, per Feb 2007 Congressional hearings
Halliburton Overcharges Classified by the Pentagon as Unreasonable and Unsupported - $1.4 billion
Amount paid to KBR, a former Halliburton division, to supply U.S. military in Iraq with food, fuel, housing and other items - $20 billion
Portion of the $20 billion paid to KBR that Pentagon auditors deem "questionable or supportable" - $3.2 billion
Number of major U.S. bases in Iraq - 75 (The Nation/New York Times)
TROOPS IN IRAQ
Iraqi Troops Trained and Able to Function Independent of U.S. Forces - 6,000 as of May 2007 (per NBC's "Meet the Press" on May 20, 2007)
Troops in Iraq - Total 179,779, including 168,000 from the US, 5,00 from the UK, 1,200 from South Korea and 5,579 from all other nations
US Troop Casualities - 3,800 US troops; 98% male. 90% non-officers; 80% active duty, 12% National Guard; 74% Caucasian, 10% African-American, 11% Latino. 18% killed by non-hostile causes. 51% of US casualties were under 25 years old. 70% were from the US Army
Non-US Troop Casualties - Total 300, with 169 from the UK
US Troops Wounded - 27,936, 20% of which are serious brain or spinal injuries (total excludes psychological injuries)
US Troops with Serious Mental Health Problems 30% of US troops develop serious mental health problems within 3 to 4 months of returning home
US Military Helicopters Downed in Iraq - 68 total, at least 36 by enemy fire
IRAQI TROOPS, CIVILIANS & OTHERS IN IRAQ
Private Contractors in Iraq, Working in Support of US Army Troops - More than 180,000 in August 2007, per The Nation/LA Times.
Journalists killed - 112, 74 by murder and 38 by acts of war
Journalists killed by US Forces - 14
Iraqi Police and Soldiers Killed - 7,460
Iraqi Civilians Killed, Estimated - A UN issued report dated Sept 20, 2006 stating that Iraqi civilian casualities have been significantly under-reported. Casualties are reported at 50,000 to over 100,000, but may be much higher. Some informed estimates place Iraqi civilian casualities at over 600,000.
Iraqi Insurgents Killed, Roughly Estimated - 55,000
Non-Iraqi Contractors and Civilian Workers Killed - 539
Non-Iraqi Kidnapped - 305, including 54 killed, 147 released, 4 escaped, 6 rescued and 94 status unknown.
Daily Insurgent Attacks, Feb 2004 - 14
Daily Insurgent Attacks, July 2005 - 70
Daily Insurgent Attacks, May 2007 - 163
oh, and here's the link:
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:52am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 10:48am |
i like him...but my god is he a goob! he's also the last de contenter to hold onto the bill clinton thumb gesticulation...which makes him even more gooberish...
sheesh...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:52am
crimped thumb that is...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 10:53am
who do you agree with 100%, 100% of the time?
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:38am
my wife, or else!
:+]
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:53am
reach around to find his feminine side.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:40am
is this metaphorical or literal?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:55am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 10:38am\
Point is CRAB, the "military-industrial complex" nefariousness is accepted (mostly by the Left) as automatic....why not the "scientific-technological elite" and their evil-doings? Or why is it never even BROUGHT UP?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 11:01am
my wife, or else!
:+]
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 10:53am
Bingo!
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 11:02am
my wife, or else!
:+]
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 10:53am
Bingo!
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 11:02am |
I feel sorry for you two. Kept men.
no, Mask, the point is... I think Ghandi was amazing, but I am sure I could find statements by him that I disagree with, same with any of my "heroes". But that does not fit in with your desire to poke holes in everybody's arguments, regardless of how small or asinine the hole is.
ain't nobody perfect, 'ceptin me when I'm alone.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 11:12am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 11:12am | ignore this person
Mask is schmuck spelled backwards.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 11:14am
Posted by ZERO 09/28/2007 @ 11:00am
some of us have a desire to not get swept along in the bottomless tide pool of greed. find someone that you mostly agree with, VOTE for them. An awful lot of people put their lives on the line so you could do that. Not recently, but in the past. I guess one could argue that not voting is a choice as well, I just don't think it is a good one.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 11:16am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 11:14am
LOL!!!!!!
Good one, my little Hamantaschen.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 11:18am
Off to argue with the furnace again. CO meter keeps yelling. Might be time for a new high efficiency doohickey.
Catch you all later.
Peace. A concept whose time has come.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 11:21am
Good one, my little Hamantaschen.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 11:18am | ignore this person
those are for Purim. our jewish friends, and I have many, are celebrating Sukkoth now, a week or two of thanksgiving, a harvest festival, with little huts constructed, and much feasting.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 11:23am
If the 2008 election is impacted by diminished voter turnout in some areas, that will have consequences
Posted by ZERO 09/28/2007 @ 11:00am
it's hard to diminish the already nearly invisible
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 11:48am
I feel sorry for you two. Kept men.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 11:12am
i was just using an old cliché to make a joke.
my wife (pbuh) is great. and we make our decisions together. and on the tough ones, we flip a coin.
any woman who would marry a full-time, insane musician has to be understanding.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 11:51am
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 11:12am
But Ike's standing is used as a SUPPORT for the theory of the "MIC"....so why not the "STE" (scientific-technological elite)?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 12:08pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 11:14am
BTW, if somebody (not on Dr Smith's Ignore) could do me a favor and cut & paste this....
"Yeah, JR, and a person who throws out insults to people on his Ignore list, so that his precious and fragile ego isn't forced to watch them counter-respond is called a "gutless coward"...or a "JOHANNESROLF" in German!"
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 12:10pm
look Wolf, my point is that not voting is a dead end. I feel I have been as clear as possible. please don't mind my disagreeing with you, even if I may have been a tad disagreeable. we agree on most everything else.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 09:42am
JR, No harm done here. Just talking things over. Not voting is definitely a dead end option. I am just worried about voting being a dead end option too. However, we do at least stand a small chance that if one of our chosen dems is elected, that they will try to conduct themselves as president with a little more integrity than the jackass at the helm now.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 12:26pm
hey there, JR. we canadians make great diplomats. just ask my friends in mexico. or check out lester b. and why he won the nobel peace prize in 1957 [en.wikipedia.org]
and so.....
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 11:14am
BTW, if somebody (not on Dr Smith's Ignore) could do me a favor and cut & paste this....
"Yeah, JR, and a person who throws out insults to people on his Ignore list, so that his precious and fragile ego isn't forced to watch them counter-respond is called a "gutless coward"...or a "JOHANNESROLF" in German!"
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 12:10pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 12:32pm
Off to argue with the furnace again. CO meter keeps yelling. Might be time for a new high efficiency doohickey.
Catch you all later.
Peace. A concept whose time has come.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 11:21am
Crab, Good luck with your furnace. Hopefully you won't end up 5 or 10k down due to replacing it.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
Frost, you may now join Mask on my ignore list.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 12:32pm
Thanks FROST.
On Pearson, can't remember. Did I give you this link? thought it was interesting [althistory.wikia.com].
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 12:41pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
Oh dear, sorry, FROST. The Good Professor's ego was tapped and he feared it shattering.
Believe me....you're better off!
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 12:42pm
Posted by WOLFGANG1 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
I am hoping that too. I think I have it figured out, but I am going to suck up my manly-man ego and call a pro to make sure. The CO alarm is one thing I agree with 100%.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
You are a harsh mistress! Don't blame you much for dissing MASK, but you will miss out on some good humor ignoring Frosty (today excepted, c'mon Frost you are going for the easy ones today, I know you can do better). Your loss, Johannes.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 12:58pm
I fail to see how not voting is going to solve the problems of an unresponsive government. Neither would a weaker government solve this problem. People abstaining from the vote is exactly why we are in the predicament that we are in today. Democracy requires PARTICIPATION! It takes work! You have to really want it and mean it, and fight for it! The only message that a low voter turn out sends, is that there will be no voter oversight. Elected officials certainly won't resign because only 40% of the public voted. Americans have remained comfortably numb for far too long, and now we are paying the price. The name of this game has become lets make a deal. Less government surely won't work. Who do you think will fill the vaccuum if the federal government was reduced to its miniscule powers under the Articles of Confederation? Would corporations give power back to the people voluntarily? Would the market? If you believe they would, then you truly are an idiot, and deserve neither freedom, nor the meager protections our shell of a government provides. Only when people make an effort to inform themselves, and act on that information, will we truly enjoy a responsive government. Until then i'm stuck reading what you bloggers have to say. And that makes me want to cry.
Posted by quinndiesel at 09/28/2007 @ 1:04pm
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 12:58pm
CRAB, I don't care if Professor ROLF puts me on Ignore. What I find cowardly is to insult me (based off a post to you) knowing that he can't see any response I would give because he's blocked it.
Want to Ignore me...then ignore me. Or stop being a coward and have the guts to take it as much as you dish it out.
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 1:05pm
You are a harsh mistress! Don't blame you much for dissing MASK, but you will miss out on some good humor ignoring Frosty (today excepted, c'mon Frost you are going for the easy ones today, I know you can do better). Your loss, Johannes.
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 12:58pm
thanks
maybe you can post this for me.
jr, i've always appreciated your insightful comments.
the ignore list is anathema to me ('cept RESE for volumetric reasons--miss you, RESE).
when i see people ignoring each other here, i see it as a microcosm of why humans can get all messed up ignoring each others ideas
please reconsider my, and all your ignorings.
when i intervened on MASK's behalf, i advocated neither side in your affairs. i only wanted to facilitate discourse.
i have done the same for many people now.
and i would do it for you, too
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 1:11pm
Posted by QUINNDIESEL 09/28/2007 @ 1:04pm | ignore this person
good post. try to hit return twice once in a while, to create paragraphs, which increase readability.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 1:18pm
an ignore for an ignore will only lead us to a world of mirrors
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 1:21pm
maybe you can post this for me.
jr, i've always appreciated your insightful comments.
the ignore list is anathema to me ('cept RESE for volumetric reasons--miss you, RESE).
when i see people ignoring each other here, i see it as a microcosm of why humans can get all messed up ignoring each others ideas
please reconsider my, and all your ignorings.
when i intervened on MASK's behalf, i advocated neither side in your affairs. i only wanted to facilitate discourse.
i have done the same for many people now.
and i would do it for you, too
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 1:11pm
Mask has a good point...
CRAB, I don't care if Professor ROLF puts me on Ignore. What I find cowardly is to insult me (based off a post to you) knowing that he can't see any response I would give because he's blocked it.
that's how I feel about Happycoward.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 1:23pm
Posted by QUINNDIESEL 09/28/2007 @ 1:04pm
hang around, we will try to make you laugh occasionally. With the pols we have now, the ammo is limitless. Especially the current crop of fundie repubs. We should at least thank them for being such open hypocrites and fools.
thank you Senator Ahdidhiminthejohn
Thank you Scooter Libby, you sack of dung.
thank you Rev Dobson for showing us how it is possible for Taliban to come into power.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/28/2007 @ 1:27pm
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 1:23pm
Hate to tell you this, CRAB...but you probably just got yourself put on Professor ROLF's Ignore list for that!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 1:29pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 1:21pm
Ghandi as Bloggist?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 1:30pm
you end the war in Iraq by withdrawing of troops AND negotiations. you gain credibility by de-militarizing the region.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 2:11pm
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 12:08pm | i
actually in the context of the speech...the ste seems to be a subtopic within the broader mic...
and too pining for the good ol' days of heroic, half educated blackboard scribbling brilliant amateurism...
rings of the forgivable naivete of someone born in the horse and buggy era...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 2:43pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 2:11pm
ROSALIND
.... make the doors upon a blogger's
wit and it will out at the casement; shut that and
'twill out at the key-hole; stop that, 'twill fly
with the smoke out at the chimney.
GRATIANO
Thanks, i' faith, for silence is only commendable
In a neat's tongue dried and a maid not vendible.
QUEEN KATHARINE
Turn me away; and let the foul'st contempt
Shut door upon me, and so give me up
To the sharp'st kind of justice
FROSTY ZOOM
an ignore for an ignore will only lead us to a world of mirrors
Verstehst du mich?
Posted by frosted zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 3:03pm
rings of the forgivable naivete of someone born in the horse and buggy era...----Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 2:43pm
Then can we not take that same analysis and apply it to his view of the "military-industrial complex"? A horse and buggy guy, who BTW, went to West Point over the objections of his parents who were opposed to "militarism"?
Sounds more to me like a guy harkening back to his parents' teachings and perhaps having a bit of guilt (unwarrented in my view) over ordering thousands of men to their deaths.
And my earlier post remains...the choosing of the Left to embrace Ike for "MIC", and carefully ignore his take on "egghead professors"....is purely political and thereby negates citing Ike as a "unquestionable source".
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 3:07pm
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 3:07pm
well, no one's perfect. we all cherry-pick what to believe, much the same way as ike did.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 3:10pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 3:10pm
Absolutely....some in fact go to deliberate ends to IGNORE those things they don't wish to believe or see.
n'est-ce pas?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 3:21pm
there is another way of interpreting the title of this thread. "ending the war for profit."
the country will greatly profit by ending this catastrophic war.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 3:34pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 3:34pm
Dr. ROLF has his Master's in The Bleedin' Obvious from the University of Duh.
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 3:38pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 3:34pm
Dr. ROLF has his Master's in The Bleedin' Obvious from the University of Duh.
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 3:38pm |
why does JR have you on ignore?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 3:42pm
n'est-ce pas?
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 3:21pm
*sigh*
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 3:58pm
Posted by CRABWALK 09/28/2007 @ 1:23pm |
hey crab-o-steel:
thank you so much for your intervention today.
muchísimas gracias
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 4:17pm
http://tinyurl.com/24n9yq
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2007 @ 5:03pm
"West Chester, Pa.: History seems to be repeating it self as the drumbeat for war with Iran, based on accusations not backed up by any facts, intensifies. Do you think the Bush administration will launch a war (perhaps sending only the bombers) against Iran and if they do what are the likely consequences for the Middle East?
Dana Priest: Frankly, I think the military would revolt and there would be no pilots to fly those missions. This is a little bit of hyberpole, but not much. Just look at what Gen. Casey, the Army chief, said yesterday. That the tempo of operations in Iraq would make it very hard for the military to respond to a major crisis elsewhere. Beside, it's not the "war" or "bombing" part that's difficult; it's the morning after and all the days after that. Haven't we learned that (again) from Iraq?"
http://tinyurl.com/3d2c9q
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/28/2007 @ 7:05pm
If we would finally use the force that is at our disposal, the radicals in the middle east as a whole would fall in line. They would have no choice. Yes it would be horrific, but the reality is that if we continue with "PC Warfare" eventually more will die over time. The way to put an end to it, is to put an end to it.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 09/28/2007 @ 7:40pm
why does JR have you on ignore?
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 3:42pm
Because I was laughing at the superior intellect! (Kirk-Wrath of Khan)
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 8:21pm
Posted by USAPRIDE 09/28/2007 @ 7:40pm
Give me details...megatons of details, USA....
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 8:22pm
It's like anything in life that you half-ass your way through. If you were to commit all your resources, you would accomplish your goals much faster.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 09/28/2007 @ 8:35pm
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 8:21pm | ignore this person
check out the weiner blog...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 8:36pm
Posted by USAPRIDE 09/28/2007 @ 8:35pm
USA, seems you're still a bit vague...what does " Yes it would be horrific, but the reality is that if we continue with "PC Warfare" eventually more will die over time. The way to put an end to it, is to put an end to it."...mean SPECIFICALLY.
step by step, what are you suggesting???
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 9:08pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 8:36pm
I did. Congrats on joining the Professor ROLF Expulsion Club.
We have T-shirts!
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 9:10pm
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 9:10pm |
at some point he may need a sock puppet...lol...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/28/2007 @ 9:26pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 09/28/2007 @ 9:26pm
The man has a near monopoly on EGO around here. Some self-stylized senior citizen (I believe he's in his early 60s) who fancies himself our resident "scholar". And thinks when he says something BLEEDIN' OBVIOUS, it's profound (Like "it would profit this country to end the war!").
The hypocrisy on Limbaugh was priceless. JR rightfully took FRANK to task for calling for censorship, and rightfully called Rush to the carpet for attacking the troops...
then turned around and hinted that our troops were criminals and addicts...and then blamed them for the war.
That plus his INCESSANT Germano-philia, where everything good and proper is German (like Michael Constantine's char in "Big Fat Greek Wedding" about the Greeks)...and "Dresden was bad too" when somebody mentions the Holocaust.
BTW, don't you love that "threat"..."Anybody who relays what MASK says to me will be ignored!", as if most people wouldn't say "Uh, so what, JOHANN? Do it!"
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 9:40pm
The horiffic aspect would be loss of life.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 09/28/2007 @ 9:46pm
Posted by FREIHEIT 09/28/2007 @ 8:09pm
well our government (we, us, ourselves) is running a surplus (which thankfully is being used to pay down national debt) AND is paying for everybody's health care (however imperfect the system may be)
but tell me, how perfect is the health care system you currently have, even under the best of circumstances?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 9:59pm
We have T-shirts!
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 9:10pm
¿made in usa?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/28/2007 @ 10:02pm
Frei, cheap semantics, no go. I make a distinction between the state and the administration. the state it is us. WE pay the oldsters health insurance, as well as that of the troops and the bureaucrats.we decide. you have nothing to offer. I advocate what works.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 10:10pm
as I have pointed out the gov't is more than politicians. it is lifetime civil servants, it is the courts, and yes it is the NEA, and the NEH and many other entities.
you have nothing but negativity.big gov't blah blah, corrupt politicians blah blah, no wonder your party has written the book on corruption and lies.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/28/2007 @ 10:40pm
Posted by USAPRIDE 09/28/2007 @ 9:46pm
Specifics, USA, specifics....or are you afraid to say what you just like to HINT at?
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 10:49pm
¿made in usa?----Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/28/2007 @ 10:02pm |
Hell no. We have a sweat-shop filled with German-American senior citizens pretending they're academics who sew the shirts.
Fortunately they don't talk much while working since they're all ignoring each other for not recognizing each other's genius!
Posted by Mask at 09/28/2007 @ 10:52pm
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 10:52pm
careful, dood.
remember, you were insulted that you couldn't defend yourself from your ignored position.
insulting from the ignored position is just a dangerous, even though the insulted party will never see it.
that's how i see it karmically.
nonetheless,
ROFLMAO
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/29/2007 @ 12:03am
Posted by MASK 09/28/2007 @ 9:40pm | ignore this person
lol
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/29/2007 @ 01:36am
HOLY NO DEAL BATMAN! HEY IBLBLELBLELBLE, HERE'S SOME SPANISH FOR YOUR BREAKFASTING PLEASURE.
transcript of bush-aznar meeting in feb. 2003. turns out saddam wanted to flee iraq [tinyurl.com]
professor cole has a good translation [juancole.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/29/2007 @ 02:21am
gotta admit...only on the Left is there free discussion and tolerance of diverse view points. Try to call Rush Limbaugh for example. The man will not debate his detractors. I guess The Right is afraid of debate.
Our Nation has always suffered from the Right: e.g. the largest death toll due to war was the Civil War which was agressive 'internal' intolerance of abolitionists by Conservative Slave Oligarchs. Our second World War was the second most distructive of personal also an aggressive war from the "Right-wing" and funded by Oligarchs like GW Bush's grandfather. Remember, it was the defenders of Franco in the 30s who also wanted Hitler to wipe out the Commies.. and thus led us into war with Germany. (forget the myth's of Churchhill being the good guy he cut funding for the military in England while exchequer (sp?) and conservative style refused to raise taxes to keep the military in shape for Hitler's rise..)
Now, we have the phoney war on terror.....which is really a war upon the middle class. Every Rightwinger in the USA is either affiliated with mercenaries ripping off the taxpayer in Iraq and elsewhere or is stupid stooge listening to Rush Limbaugh.
Defenders of military expansion forget it's a complete ripoff of middleclass taxpayers. And look at our health care system the upper 10 percent only have to pay less than 1 percent of income for top notch health care while the rest of us go without or pay 20 percent for a lesser quality health care product....(high deductables and huge co pays)
Posted by data2dave at 09/29/2007 @ 10:10am
hey Frei, I noticed that you jumped all over me for dissing the troops, yet you were silent when Rush did far worse. typical twofaced stance.
Posted by johannesrolf at 09/29/2007 @ 11:02am
COINCIDENCE ALERT:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/story/20100.html
State Dept. official threatened investigators:
WASHINGTON -- Aides to State Department Inspector General Howard Krongard threatened two investigators with retaliation this week if they cooperate with a congressional probe into Krongard's office, the chairman of a House of Representatives panel and other U.S. officials said Friday.
The allegations are the latest in a growing uproar surrounding Krongard. Current and former officials in his office charge that he impeded investigations into alleged arms smuggling by employees of the private security firm Blackwater and into faulty construction of the new U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.
DOES THE NAME "KRONGARD" RING A BELL?
He is the brother of former CIA Executive Director A. B. Krongard.
YOU MEAN "BUZZY" KRONGARD, OF 9/11 INSIDER TRADING FAME?
CIA EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR "BUZZY" KRONGARD MANAGED FIRM THAT HANDLED "PUT" OPTIONS ON UAL
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/10_09_01_krongard.html
GOT CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY?
GOT RICO?
http://killtown.911review.org/oddities/2005.html
Posted by plunger at 09/29/2007 @ 3:06pm
We need to unveil the new con repubs, servicers of dic'tator philosophy, for the ignorant and corrupt war mongers they are. For if Islam can face their own demons-- why can't we:
Unveiling men in the Arab world By Sami Moubayed
DAMASCUS-
...
"Most men in our societies are more veiled than any of these women. A man's veil is an abstract one, created by him at will and not imposed by God. It is a veil against freedom and education. It is a veil against new ideas and dialogue. It is this man-veil that makes him walk up to the Danish Embassy and set it ablaze, thinking that this will lead him directly to heaven.
It is this man-veil that accounts today for so much ignorance in the Arab and Muslim world, and results in statements like those of Ezzat Attiya or the recent one pertaining to actresses and their marriage scenes. It is this man-veil that produces men who cannot accept women as equals, or lets them debate whether a woman's toes should be revealed in public, while other people around the world are studying astronomy, genetics, and informatics.
It is this man-veil that wrongly dwarfs Islam in the eyes of the West from a great religion discussing grand ideas to a mob movement against a bunch of silly cartoons, or Rushdie. It is this man-veil that lets men fear and hate the West. It is this man-veil that has produced men who value and have nourished themselves on ignorance and violence - at will - and contributed nothing to civilization for the past 500 years.
When Mustapha al-Akkad produced Al-Risala (known as Mohammad, Messenger of God or The Message in English) in the 1970s, a Hollywood classic about the early days of Islam starring Anthony Quinn, Muslim scholars outlawed the film because it showed the cane and camel of the Prophet. That movie, however, had done Islam and the Arabs a great service in the Western world. Akkad met with Iranian president Mohammad Khatami - a truly unveiled and intelligent Muslim - who said that in spreading the faith, the movie ranked second only to the Koran, because it attracted people to Islam.
Yes, men (before women) should unveil their minds throughout the Arab and Muslim world."
Sami Moubayed is a Syrian political analyst.
(Copyright 2007 Asia Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II29Ak03.html
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/29/2007 @ 7:20pm
An informative mid-length article on private contractors.....big rise in their use came from Clinton, imagine that! Got the time, read the whole thing....
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200709u/kaplan-blackwater
Dispatch September 2007 Unbound Atlantic Monthly
For all the notoriety of private military contractors like Blackwater, they represent an important aspect of the future of war. And that future is not all bad.
by Robert D. Kaplan
Private military contractors are again under public scrutiny,....
....question: Just who controls these seemingly trigger-happy guys?.....
The issue....is important not just in a practical sense, but in a profound, constitutional one....in whose name are they shooting?
....Private military contractors are not going away. To the contrary, they represent an important aspect of the future of war. And that future is not all bad. My purpose here is not to defend Blackwater's actions, but to describe the larger context in which private military contractors operate.
Mention private military contractors to many civilians, especially to liberals, and......
In fact, the former Halliburton subsidiary of Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) consummated its veritable marriage with the U.S. military during the Clinton administration, when the firm's logistical capabilities were indispensable to the Balkan interventions that many liberals supported. The KBR-designed military bases in Bosnia and Kosovo became templates for those in Iraq and Afghanistan.
......contractors like KBR and Blackwater are composed mainly of retired American noncommissioned officers (NCOs), working alongside the same military to which they used to belong......veterans of the most elite Special Operations units in the U.S. military......the elder statesmen of the combat arms community,.....in the field...They'll be instantly looked up to.
....The quasi-privatization of war has a long history and is consistent with America's efficient capitalistic economy. The idea of a large American military presence anywhere without contractors is now unthinkable. Without firms like KBR, the support tail in Iraq would be infinitely longer than it is, with tens of thousands of more troops required to achieve the same result. Buildings need to be maintained; chow halls have to be run; showers and restrooms need to be cleaned. Mundane activities like these account for the bulk of what private contractors do. Of course, that raises the question of bidding fairness: Precisely because only a few such firms, including KBR, can handle massive logistical operations in sync with American military guidelines, taxpayers need to be protected from what are, in the absence of real competition, essentially no-bid contracts.
.....Private military contractors might even provide an alternative to conventional military intervention in humanitarian emergencies. If the so-called world community won't intervene in a place like Darfur, maybe Blackwater will do so--for a price.
.....The more technological the military sphere becomes, the greater the emphasis on the quality of personnel, rather than on their number. And the private sector can offer trained personnel, whether on land or at sea. Rather than go back to a military draft, we're more likely to see the further privatization of war.....
Robert D. Kaplan, a national correspondent for The Atlantic, is the author of Hog Pilots, Blue Water Grunts: The American Military in the Air, at Sea, and on the Ground.
Posted by Happy at 09/29/2007 @ 8:22pm
Frost, you may now join Mask on my ignore list.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 09/28/2007 @ 12:39pm
Ignoring those who (from where I sit) essentially agree with your views? Frosty is cool, (for a Canadian ☺)...I mean, he hasn't melted yet....
You miss out on lots of opportunities to call Mask an obnoxious idiot, by ignoring him.
-----------------------
The Nation has expanded my vocabulary. I never even was aware of the terms reseian or maskian, til I came here.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 09/29/2007 @ 8:35pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/29/2007 @ 8:22pm
doesn't suprise me at all that this began in phase two of the bush-clinton-bush-clinton QUADRILOGY
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/29/2007 @ 8:38pm
Eric
Posted by MALCONTENT 09/29/2007 @ 8:35pm
thanks for the vote!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/29/2007 @ 8:39pm
Posted by MALCONTENT 09/29/2007 @ 8:35pm
That's because you've got more courage and integrity than "Dr. Smith", Eric.
(But don't post that...or he'll Ignore you too!)
Posted by Mask at 09/29/2007 @ 9:15pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/29/2007 @ 8:22pm
well HAPPY, i read the entire link!
seems a little scary to leave the war machine in the hands of people who make money DIRECTLY off conflict (as opposed to those who just make money off the FEAR of conflict).
if someone wants to make money, they'd better first make sure the conditions are ripe for profit-making. and in the case of the folks Kaplan talks about, that's frightening.
now, i read your link, you read MINE--The Great Iraq Swindle: How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury [tinyurl.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/29/2007 @ 9:38pm
Kat, I absolutely agree with you that we as a people must encourage our leaders to impose more constraints on these so-called "private armies". Thanks to Jeremy Scahill for giving us a firsthand insight into the operations of Blackwater, and how they are basically controlling the war in Iraq. Let's face it, the longer we stay in Iraq, the larger Eric Prince's undisclosed salary becomes. I am truly convinced these people do not want peace in Iraq. One only has to reflect on the recent report of Blackwater smuggling weapons into Iran and Iraq. Why in the hell would they do that? Furthermore, could these weapons be linked to the 190,000 weapons that went missing prior to the infamous Petreaus report? Which by the way, nobody on either side of the isle questioned him (Petreaus) about, during his congressional hearings. If we the American poeple do not protest these activities, we may find our own communities being "guarded" by Blackwater type entitites. Why on earth would we want to pay our hard-earned monies for some pissy-ass punk, such as Eric Prince, to get extremely rich and treat us, the taxpayer or consumer like shit? To me, this is the fundamental question that your readers must understand and I wish you would modify your analogies to include basic and straightforward reasonings like this whenever you make an appearance on Hardball, etc.
Posted by blkmadness at 09/30/2007 @ 12:06pm
To Frankgrits:
The "phony soldier" to whom Limbaugh was referring was, in fact, a "phony soldier". He served 44 days in bootcamp and washed out. Everything he claimed about his so-called "service" was a lie. He is, I believe, being prosecuited for making false claims.
So Limbaugh, as usual, despite his water-carrying for Republicans and Bush, got his facts correct and his critics, as usual, got them wrong.
Posted by TVAnderson at 09/30/2007 @ 12:25pm
I am troubled by descriptions of legislation which say "limit," "only 25 times," etc. Why limit when one should end these conditions? Why say that salaries 25 times a general's are ok? If the system is out of control, we should be trying to end things, not limit them. I am trying to teach American History to under-prepared young Navajos in an isolated school district in Northern Arizona. Every time I try to get new equipment, books and supplemental material, I hear that the district doesn't have the money. Yet the staff is under enormous pressure to produce elaborate lesson plans and raise standardized test scores--work which we are expected to produce on our own time. There is an obvious connection to me not only between the lack of money here and the sea of it for contractors but the mondset which finds that both war profiteering and mandatory unpaid overtime for modestly-paid teachers are just fine.
Posted by mimsky at 09/30/2007 @ 2:02pm
...you read MINE--The Great Iraq Swindle: How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury [tinyurl.com]
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/29/2007 @ 9:38pm
I read completely.....the 1st page (of 5 or 6)! That took more time than Kaplan's article....`debt' paid up, w/interest!
Now, on Parsons' screwup of the police facility in Iraq....sounds pretty bad and is almost surely the worst of the worst....not to excuse it, shit happens...even, I know it's hard to believe, in the US!
Experienced in construction as project manager, I know it takes a large number of folks--constractors, workers, equipment & mat'l suppliers--and ALSO inspectors COORDINATING and COOPERATING to deliver a fine building! In the first couple of years post-invasion, I CAN imagine how hard that would be as a Parsons' project manager......WITHOUT even factoring in the big gorilla of personal/staff safety!
IF we could do everything over, I would heavily focus on using existing buildings (NO grandiose new police facilities & such) and on civilian infrastructures (NO Looting--that occurred).
Our world runs on money....and when it comes to Other Peoples' Money, well, Misuse, outright Waste, Bribery, Embezzlement are all par for the course. We can certainly reduce these IF we are willing to EXECUTE a few more folks....but white-collar types are just very skilled in getting very good lawyers to help them out, for money of course.....and to get Pardons from VIPs' like Bill Clinton!
Posted by Happy at 09/30/2007 @ 3:00pm
HAPPY SUNDAY, HAPPY!
here, i've found the worst of pages 2,3,4,5 for you. remember, this is YOUR $. (and your kids, and grandkids, and great-grandkids, and great-great-grandkids..............)
The White House has failed to litigate a single case against a contractor under the False Claims Act and has not sued anybody for breach of contract. It even declined to join in a lawsuit filed by whistle-blowers who are accusing KBR of improper invoicing in Fallujah. "For all the Bush administration claims to do in the war against terrorism," Grayson said in congressional testimony, "it is a no-show in the war against war profiteers." In nearly five years of some of the worst graft and looting in American history, the administration has recovered less than $6 million.
In short, some $8.8 billion of the $12 billion proved impossible to find. "Who in their right mind would send 360 tons of cash into a war zone?" asked Rep. Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Oversight Committee. "But that's exactly what our government did."
"In perhaps the ultimate example of military capitalism, KBR reportedly ran convoys of empty trucks back and forth across the insurgent-laden desert, pointlessly risking the lives of soldiers and drivers so the company could charge the taxpayer for its phantom deliveries. Truckers for KBR, knowing full well that the trips were bullshit, derisively referred to their cargo as "sailboat fuel."
" In one deal awarded to KBR, the company's "indirect" administrative costs were $52.7 million, and its direct costs -- the costs associated with the actual job -- were only $13.4 million."
"Moreover, when things go missing in Iraq -- like bricks of $100 bills, or weapons, or trucks -- it is a fair assumption that some of the wayward booty ends up in the wrong hands. In July, a federal audit found that 190,000 weapons are missing in Iraq -- nearly one out of every three arms supplied by the United States. "
"Bechtel was given $50 million to build the hospital -- but a year later, with the price tag soaring to $169 million, the company was pulled off the project without a single bed being ready for use."
After auditing the deal, the Pentagon found that KBR had overcharged the government $61 million for fuel.
When I contact Mark Atwood (ceo of "wolfpack corp") and ask him to explain how he could watch one of his best employees get blown up and crippled for life, and then cut him loose with debts totaling well over half a million dollars, Atwood, safe in his office in Kuwait City and contentedly suckling at the taxpayer teat, decides that answering this one question is just too much to ask of poor old him.
"Right now," Atwood says, "I just want some peace."
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 3:51pm
i've found the worst of pages 2,3,4,5 for you.....
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/30/2007 @ 3:51pm
You could've `condensed' it further to the very last part on Atwood....long-term/permanent disability and/or death benefits for private contractors must be a part of ALL fed contracts.....if they exist and Atwood found some `holes', then need to made stronger, same as the executives that make the big, big bucks!
Posted by Happy at 09/30/2007 @ 4:39pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/30/2007 @ 4:39pm
yeah, go back and read the last page. heart-breaking.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/30/2007 @ 5:44pm
How can this article be true when Blackwater on Friday was awarded a $92,000,000,000 contract by the Pentagon?
Posted by Andrea Lea at 10/01/2007 @ 10:56am
I heard somewhere that fourty cents of every dollar of Pentagon spending on the Iraqistan "conflict" goes to private firms. If this is true, it eqates to a 40% privatization of our military.
Posted by Oilfieldguy at 10/01/2007 @ 12:52pm
How can this article be true when Blackwater on Friday was awarded a $92,000,000,000 contract by the Pentagon?
Posted by ANDREA LEA 10/01/2007 @ 10:56am
too many zeros.
that's million, not billion
nonetheless.............................
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:40pm
Posted by TVANDERSON 09/30/2007 @ 12:25pm | ignore this person
repeating the lie.
don't fall for it. go to media matters for the truth.
Posted by johannesrolf at 10/02/2007 @ 10:17am