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RedditLast month's failed missile defense test was categorized as a "No Test" by the Missile Defense Agency (MDA). The target missile didn't fly into range of the interceptor so it was never launched.
Even though it was deemed a "No Test" by the MDA, an agency spokesman nevertheless claimed that the results of "the failed test underscored the need of the US to install 10 interceptors in Poland and a tracking radar station in the Czech Republic as a defense against potential missile attack from Iran…. It showed that any missiles that Iran launched could similarly go astray and land in Europe even if Europe was not Iran's target."
Huh?
Welcome to what Joseph Cirincione – senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and author of the new book, Bomb Scare – calls, "This week's episode of President Bush in Fantasyland."
"President Bush is rushing to deploy a technology that does not work against a threat that does not exist," Cirincione says. "Iran is at least 5 to 10 years away from the capability to build a nuclear weapon and at least that far from having a missile that could hit Europe let alone the US. And anti-missile systems are still nowhere near working despite $150 billion spent since the 1983 Star Wars program started and years of phony tests staged to demonstrate ‘progress' and ‘success.'"
None of this has stopped Bush from continuing to tout his Czech Republic and Poland-based "proposed missile defense system designed to thwart a possible nuclear attack from Iran." Adding to the irony (and the outrage) is the fact that while Bush continues to frame the weapons system as indispensable to democracy – "This is aimed at a country like Iran… so they couldn't blackmail the free world" – the people of the Czech Republic and Poland continue to oppose the plans (as I initially reported here). Recent polls show that over 60 percent of Czechs are opposed and only 25 percent of Poles support the missile defense plan.
The mayor of the Czech village of Trokavec where the radar site would be located recently held a referendum and 71 of 72 votes were cast against the plan. The mayor of Stitov, Vaclav Hudec, and "most of" his village's 58 residents "are bitterly opposed" to the radar site. Hudec wrote House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Robert Byrd outlining the opposition of "nearly two dozen" Czech mayors to the missile defense plan.
"This is a crisis of our own making," Cirincione says. "President Bush so fervently believes in something that doesn't exist that he jeopardizes – again – our real security interests. The fact is the Czechs don't want the radar, the Europeans don't trust his explanations and deplore his unilateralism, the Congress has already cut the funds on purely programmatic grounds. This was a dumb idea before, now it is yet another foreign policy disaster."
All of this for a system Cirincione says isn't important to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who view these programs as "expensive pet rocks."
"The Joint Chiefs were happy to cut this budget as soon as Presidents Reagan and Bush left office," he says. "In 1993 they formally wrote President Clinton and recommended spending only $2.8 billion with $2.3 billion of that devoted to short-range defenses." (We currently spend in the range of $10 billion per year.)
And while many in the mainstream media swallow the Bush Administration talking points on Russian President Vladimir Putin as if once again being spoon-fed pre-war intelligence, other experts on arms control and foreign policy suggest Putin has real reason to worry about the Bush Administration's moves.
In The Rise of US Nuclear Primacy, published in Foreign Affairs last year, Keir A. Liber and Daryl G. Press wrote: "… the sort of missile defenses that the United States might plausibly deploy would be valuable primarily in an offensive context, not a defensive one – as an adjunct to a US first-strike capability, not as a stand-alone shield. If the United States launched a nuclear attack against Russia (or China), the targeted country would be left with a tiny surviving arsenal – if any at all. At that point, even a relatively modest or inefficient missile-defense system might well be enough to protect against any retaliatory strikes…"
Cirincione adds that he thinks Putin's response is a "clever gambit."
"There is a reason Russians are the best chess players – they know how to read the board and exploit their opportunities," he says. "President Putin thinks the US policies represent a new imperialism. Now, he sees President Bush trying to build permanent military bases on Russia's borders. Putin isn't afraid of 10 interceptors but he has to worry about what comes next – any Russian leader would. He doesn't believe President Bush and many Europeans don't either. This issue feeds into the mistrust of America that Europeans feel on a host of Bush Administration policies from global warming to Iraq."
So why is the Bush administration imposing this sucker of a weapons system that nobody wants on an already inflamed relationship with Russia? Why risk sparking a renewed nuclear arms race?
"Politics drives this deployment decision," Cirincione says. "Bush Administration officials are trying to lock in the program before they leave office. They are trying to build bases they hope the next president will find impossible to shut down."
Thank you, Mr. Bush. One more relic from your Fantasyland we could do without.
UPDATE: Today, Putin stated that he would not object if the radar-based system were placed in Azerbaijan instead of the Czech Republic. He didn't comment on the issue of the interceptors being placed in Poland.
Putin noted, "… as soon as a country, for instance, Iran, carries out its first test of its long-range missile… Three to five years will be necessary… until the system is operational. This time is fairly enough to deploy any ABM system. Therefore, no matter how long our talks are going on, we will never be late…. I'm grateful to the President of the United States for a constructive dialogue today."
"Brilliant move by Putin," Cirincione said in an e-mail. "He is basically doing to President Bush what Bush is trying to do to the Europeans on global warming: offer a counter proposal that appears to be constructive but has the effect of delaying the entire process and moving it in a completely different direction. Moving the radar to Azerbaijan both solves some of the Russian military concerns--as the radar will not be able to track Russian ICBMs from that site--and Russian geostrategic concerns by placing any radar in a country much more in their sphere of influence…. Better, the talks about where to site the radar will take months. Putin could well play out the clock on Bush's presidency. But how can President Bush refuse to talk? Isn't Putin doing exactly what President Bush had asked--that is, talk about cooperating on anti-missile systems? If he does refuse, he will look even more the aggressor, eroding what is left of his administration's credibility. President Bush has fallen neatly into Putin's trap. They may have to invent a new name for this gambit."
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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Stranglovian geo-politics to go with the Nabokovian sexual hypocrisies recalls The Nation's adept lampooning via Alfred E. Neuman: "What, me worry?".
Nah.
Posted by lewwelge at 06/07/2007 @ 11:13am
Thrawn, was it you who said the missile thing was working? evidently not your finest moment.
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/07/2007 @ 11:21am
Sounds like the same old arguements the press and the dems had against star wars...it doesn't work, we are forcing it on others or our selves....well, the Russians thought it would work and that was all that mattered...they wouldn't take the risk that it would work..so they and their economy folded.
If the Poles and Czechs don't want it..who cares...they are the ones who might suffer the consequences...
and for the point that 71 out of 72 didn't want the radar sites near them...but may get it any way....towns in Texas voted overwhelmingly for immigration reforms for their local desires...only to have a court cancel the voters choice and claim it is a federal responsibility, which it is,...I imagine tha same arguement could be used in Poland or Cezh...it is a ferederal juristiction for defense programs...and not similar to Kennedys not wanting to see wind mills, for example, which may be a local arena.
I want the system here and dio not care if the Europeans don't want it...but if it works ...it will be cheaper than it will be to rebuild Europe after the" Allah Akbahr" is heard before the bang...
As far as it may not work? If it stopas a few it would be better than not having any thibng to stop them at all...especially considering the nuts in Iran,...it amazes me how loons in the press side with the nay sayewrs and other forgein govts on this(Russia) and consider their own country and its efforts to protect us..a bondoggle....and many wonder why we couldn't care less what some reporter thinks is real threat or not..
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 11:34am
And just think of all those American union jobs needed to build the system...with health care....
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 11:34am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 06/07/2007 @ 11:34am
So you have no reservations about switching the location of the misslie defense to Azerbaijan?
Posted by nathanhale at 06/07/2007 @ 11:45am
If the Poles and Czechs don't want it..who cares...they are the ones who might suffer the consequences...
er, it's their country. I think you missed your calling Maasch. emperor of the whole world would be a more fitting job for you.
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/07/2007 @ 11:46am
I'll split the difference and agree with MAASCH ....AND JR...
First, odd that for a system that "cannot work"...that the Russians are so concerned about it?!?!? If it's a boondoggle and easily overcome even if it does work....why are they so pissy about a white elephant being deployed?
Second, JR is right. If the Czechs and Poles don't want it...don't put it in there. Lord knows we spend enough money on defending countries that don't need or don't want our defense....so fine by me.
Posted by Mask at 06/07/2007 @ 11:57am
The rhetoric of SDI winning the cold war was so affective that an unknown Bill Clinton defeated Bush in '92. This Hannity favorite seems to presuppose that Russia had no science knowledge or aerospace technology. Sorry Masch, but missile defense doesn't work unless perhaps you put the time and MONEY we already blew in Iraq.
Posted by phillymark at 06/07/2007 @ 12:04pm
sorry, "Maasch".
Posted by phillymark at 06/07/2007 @ 12:04pm
Let me get this straight...Bush is in fantasyland because he wants to build a missle defense shield to protect our so-called allies against rogue nations getting their weapons technology from the Russians and Chinese???
Posted by ACook at 06/07/2007 @ 12:06pm
Maybe we should be spending the money to protect the Kurds from the Turks in northern Iraq. Oh what a tangled web we weave......
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 12:10pm
If the Poles and Czechs don't want it..who cares...they are the ones who might suffer the consequences...
er, it's their country. I think you missed your calling Maasch. emperor of the whole world would be a more fitting job for you.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/07/2007 @ 11:46am
NO..I don't think it should be forced on them if their govts do not want it...
and I don't care if they take it or not..their choice,but I would think...they are the ones living 10 ft from Russia...with a history.....I met some guys from Poland last night, you should hear their take on this..
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:13pm
Oh and the "other experts" Ms. KVH was referring to was the Nation's own Stephen Cohen.
"Contrary to established opinion, the gravest threats to America's national security are still in Russia. They derive from an unprecedented development that most US policy-makers have recklessly disregarded, as evidenced by the undeclared cold war Washington has waged, under both parties, against post-Communist Russia during the past fifteen years."
Posted by ACook at 06/07/2007 @ 12:14pm
Posted by ACOOK 06/07/2007 @ 12:14pm
Well, when it comes to Russia...she defers to the hubby!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 06/07/2007 @ 12:17pm
So you have no reservations about switching the location of the misslie defense to Azerbaijan?
Posted by NATHANHALE 06/07/2007 @
Not really interested in our being responsible for others defense...unless they are willing to spend their trasure and blood(and not necessarily in that order) for the same ..or if we need it , only come if it is in their interest....
The real fight in the future may actualy be between Russia and China as China grows it economy and "needs" Siberia with it 's minerals....watch Russian become "European" again..
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:17pm
MASK and JR,,
It occurs to me I might have confused my post...
I wouldn't force any of my techo systems on anyone who didn't want it...I am just saying I do not care if they did want it or not...
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:19pm
Philly, "The rhetoric of SDI winning the cold war was so affective that an unknown Bill Clinton defeated Bush in '92. "
?
You see a link in 6 out of 10 voting against Clinton in both elections to a victory for Bill on SDI? And thats how he won the WH? BUSH 1 was fired..plain and simple.
I am going golfing...easier to foloow blind golf shots that thoughts like this...
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:21pm
.....I met some guys from Poland last night, you should hear their take on this..
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 06/07/2007 @ 12:13pm | ignore this person
Yep! The reason for hesitancy on this issue is fear of ability of US to carry through fully and completely on this issue. Talk to some of the other bordering countries like the Baltics. Russia, recently, has overtly threatened Estonia, and launched cyberterrorism against Estonian internet, effectively shutting down communications. Russia also has applied economic sanctions. The Bear is alive and well, and no one who lived through years of Soviet occupation equivocates on whether Russian imperialism will rise again. These folks understand more than we in the US ever will.
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 12:24pm
Before we go installing a weapons system that's going to piss off the citizens of the two countries we want to put it in, why don't we do something radical and, say, fully fund No Child Left Behind?
Or is actually giving a damn about whether our kids are educated instead of talking out our asses and saying we care about whether our kids are educated something we can't handle?
Posted by edwriter at 06/07/2007 @ 12:25pm
Or is actually giving a damn about whether our kids are educated instead of talking out our asses and saying we care about whether our kids are educated something we can't handle?
Posted by EDWRITER 06/07/2007 @ 12:25pm | ignore this person
Because sometimes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure (and millions of lost lives).
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 12:29pm
ONEVOTE<
"Yep! The reason for hesitancy on this issue is fear of ability of US to carry through fully and completely on this issue."
Bingo...thye feel we will not honor our commitment and they feel ther dems will win thre elections and leave them twiting in the wind as the Bear wakes up...and they are right..just listen to" we will not fight anytime anywhere or take any causalties candidates on the dem side" or the aisles...
and they are right to fear ..
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:43pm
"Or is actually giving a damn about whether our kids are educated instead of talking out our asses and saying we care about whether our kids are educated something we can't handle?
Posted by EDWRITER 06/07/2007 @ 12:25pm
Bullshit...millions of us have raged and begged for changes in the school systems and have only gotten govt lip service and more of the same failures, only funded at a higher level... all with the main concern focused on the unions...so give up the poor schools crap,...those of us who really cared gave up on types like you, doubled paid, and sent our kids to schools that do work...and the claim from you is still the same...more money.
We demonstrated our by our actions that our children mattered more than policy wonks...we acted...and out results proved we are correct...and your types called for more union backing..PPFFTT.
Back to our regularly scheduled anti missle forum.
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:49pm
Frank,
"If a missle were launched by Iran against any country in Europe or anywhere else for that matter, our subs would level the country in minutes."
Not if Reid, et al, is in a position to have a say so....why not have a system that may give Iran or anyone(Russia) a pause to think it might work, and therefore only end up destroying their own Islamic Paradise on earth?...unless they do not care and wish to be martyrs, which, changes the entire formula of deterence...but thats just American right wing nonsense, right?
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:53pm
"new arms race in Europe. If this is what Bush wants.."
Why?
.."you can tell when he is lying, by looking to see when his lips are moving. Or in print, you can tell he is lying when he says something to a reporter. The lie is whatever it is he said to the reporter. "
And Putin? What can you tell about him? Ask Lithuainia, Estonia, Poland ..? Cyber attacks? "Gas shortages" in Europe bother any ome? It should if you live in Europe. Should they feel safe?
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 12:57pm
Sorry, trying to sift through the Rese dump- Maasch- My comment about Clinton winning was only emphasizing that the Reagan Administration winning the Cold War with their brain child SDI should have carried them through the millennium with upcoming elections. You're right- bad way to make my point- which was basically mocking your overly enthusiastic, Hannityesque love for the phantom SDI. Also to point out that Iraq spending and ensuing treasury hemorrhage has put "true" missile defense out of reach- just like good public schools, alternative fuels, and adequate healthcare.
Posted by phillymark at 06/07/2007 @ 1:09pm
First, any physicist who's worth a damn will tell you that missile defense is a losing proposition from the word go. The massive amounts of money that are necessary to design a reasonably effective system are summarily deemed useless by a vast array of cheap counter measures ranging from multiple decoy warheads to simply smuggling nuclear weapons in via an infinite number of routes.
The purpose of "missile defense" is primarily as a form of corporate welfare for the aerospace industry while providing the effective side benefit of assisting the Bu$hCo government's evil plan to weaponize space.
For "Dick/Bush" simply insert "Dr Evil/Mini-Me" for appropriately incompetent imagery.
In one of the great ironies of "modern" civilization, we have a global society liberally (*pun intended) sprinkled with great minds and brilliant ideas while the ships of state continually careen into Charybdis rocks in broad daylight under gorgeous sailing conditions.
A beautiful tale of insanity that presages the current monstrosity infecting our body politic like a metastasized cancer is the story of Trofim Lysenko in the Soviet era. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia page for "Lysenkoism":
During a period which saw one man-made or natural disaster after another in agriculture, he was also extremely fast in seeming to respond to problems, although not with real solutions. Whenever the Party would announce plans to plant a new crop or cultivate a new area, Lysenko would come up with immediate and seemingly practical suggestions on how to proceed. So quickly did he develop his prescriptions -- from the cold treatment of grain, to the plucking of leaves from cotton plants, to the cluster planting of trees, to odd and unusual fertilizer mixes -- that academic biologists could not keep up and did not have time to demonstrate that one technique was valueless or harmful before a new one was adopted. The Party-controlled newspapers inevitably applauded Lysenko's "practical" efforts and questioned the motives of his critics. Lysenko's "revolution in agriculture" had a powerful propaganda advantage over the academics who urged the patience and observation required for science.
Can anyone doubt that this does not eerily reflect the current reality of American politics?
In response to the first poster here, "Be worried, be very worried".
* "The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell
Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/07/2007 @ 1:10pm
Posted by PHILLYMARK 06/07/2007 @ 1:09pm
Got it...and forget Reese..ignore list is best. He is bannana pie..
Posted by john maasch at 06/07/2007 @ 1:13pm
* "The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell----Posted by B_KOOL_66 06/07/2007 @ 1:10pm
Great quote from Russell, B_KOOL.......now...
when was the last time a "liberal" ever changed their opinion?
Posted by Mask at 06/07/2007 @ 1:32pm
when was the last time a "liberal" ever changed their opinion?
~MASK 06/07/2007 @ 1:32pm
Like so many words, the connotations of "liberal" have been smeared into a miasmatic mishmash of mush. Bertrand Russell's definition provides a nice return to anchor for a noble term.
We are all of us liberals if we subscribe to science, reason and indeed, wisdom.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/07/2007 @ 1:40pm
Right, Katrina. Why would any country be stupid enough to set up military defenses before the threat of an imminent attack has arisen? That's the time to try to set up a defense.
Posted by utcareful at 06/07/2007 @ 1:43pm
Posted by ZERO 06/07/2007 @ 1:22pm
They are trying to divert attention away from Middle East and start a new arms race with Russia. The (cold) war drums will be in full "drum" by Novemember 08. Rudy G (who will get the nomination) will be foaming at the mouth about the need for a tough guy Prez to take on those commies and islomofacists.
Also, this is another last minute handout to the military industrial complex, before the WH is lost to Dems for the next decade plus (hopefully much longer). The arms manufacturers are the number one beneficiaries of a new arms race.
Posted by BlueTexan at 06/07/2007 @ 1:49pm
The only people that would characterize a missile defense system as offensive are Russians, liberals, and morons. Any perversion of the system's purpose is simply spin...and KVH is buying it hook, line and sinker.
The only people that would stop tests after the first few (which were successful, BTW...yes I know they were controlled conditions...what tests aren't conducted that way?) are liberals and morons, but I'm being redundant. Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many attempts it took Edison to invent a working light bulb? Maybe liberals think we should have stopped tests with solar, wind and nuclear power after the first tests?
BTW, does it say anywhere in this article that we are just going to GIVE these systems away? I imagine that we will be compensated in some way.
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 1:50pm
Rudy G (who will get the nomination)
what makes you say that, blue?
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/07/2007 @ 1:53pm
UT:
You nailed it. Liberals assume that once they are in power the people of the world will simply hold hands and sing Kumbayah(Cumbayah?)...that everyone will lay down arms and love us. They can't comprehend that other countries simply despise or are envious of our affluence, culture, and might (i.e. our existence) regardless of who is in power. Apparently, they believe we can defend ourselves with a warm smile and a handshake and a lot of empty promises from other countries to make nice. Worked for Chamberlain, right?
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 2:00pm
Now THAT'S a fantasyland.
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 2:01pm
The missile defense, smart bombs, compressed nuclear warheads, etc., coupled with now-underground plans of "New World Order", remind me of Pinky and the Brain trying to take over the world with the help of blinky machines. 1.5 more years of this hubris seems so unbearable!
Posted by hshah1 at 06/07/2007 @ 2:06pm
....but I'm being redundant.....
~USC1 06/07/2007 @ 1:50pm
Nicely said, clueless one.
Main Entry: re•dun•dant Etymology: Latin redundant- present participle of redundare to overflow
1 a: exceeding what is necessary or normal : superfluous b: characterized by or containing an excess; specifically : using more words than necessary c: characterized by similarity or repetition dchiefly British : no longer needed for a job hence laid off.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/07/2007 @ 2:06pm
The only people that would stop tests after the first few (which were successful, BTW...yes I know they were controlled conditions...what tests aren't conducted that way?)
There is a big difference between controlled conditions and a rigged test. For example, a test where the correct target among decoys has a tracking beacon (2001) is a rigged test, not a controlled condition. When an interceptor fails to launch in the (in 2004 and again in 2005), that isn't a controlled condition, that's a failure.
One must ask why there is any serious consideration given to actual deployment (which is the current issue, not tests) of a system that hasn't been shown to work even under tests conditions.
Posted by brunowe at 06/07/2007 @ 2:18pm
May be the missle defense works. May be it does not. We would never know - most things are classified these days. Are you a true patriot? Then just throw your tax money over the wall and don't ask questions.
Posted by hshah1 at 06/07/2007 @ 2:20pm
So what if it doesn't work?
As has been pointed, creating mega projects using tax dollars, creates jobs. Many of these jobs are probably in India and China, but they are jobs nonetheless.
If it weren't for expensive government boondoggles, private industry would have to employ these people to produce goods and services, based on what the market wants.
By letting the government direct the market and decide on what industries people will be employed in, we're better able to direct resources. Besides, the government can borrow infinite amounts of money to outcompete private industry, proving that free market enterprise is a dead ideal. Private industry's need to make profits proves that they are inferior to the government, which can just borrow infinite amounts of money and buy what it wants.
Does anyone have a handy reference that shows that the USSR believed in Star Wars? So far my sources are drunks at that local bar who believe its true because that's what they tell each other.
Posted by Weaseldog at 06/07/2007 @ 3:27pm
USC1, don't bogart. Pass some of that affluence you're smoking down this way.
Posted by Weaseldog at 06/07/2007 @ 3:28pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/07/2007 @ 1:53pm
Rudy G is clearly running a hard right to appease the "war on terror" conservatives. He's hoping to inherit the Bush mantle. Good article about this on Salon.com.
Posted by BlueTexan at 06/07/2007 @ 3:30pm
Maasch, I don't know if I ever told you this, but my handle, EDWRITER isn't because my name is Ed, it's because I'm an education writer.
This becomes relevant because I now get to teach you another term. That term: "unfunded mandate." If you were at all familiar with that term, my comment regarding NCLB and how this whole missle system is just another means of not funding it fully would make total sense to you.
NCLB mandated a lot of things for school districts to do without giving them the money needed to do them right and now districts, even the suburban affluent ones like the one you probably live in, are asking more of taxpayers in terms of cash to make sure they're federally compliant. If the feds (and in the case of Pennsylvania where I live, the state) paid its share of Special Education money alone, these districts would be fine, but neither of these entities do.
Then again, I keep forgetting that education is only something we talk about during election time. After that, the kids and teachers are seen and not heard...unless test scores aren't high enough and we need someone to villify.
I would think that being the great American you are, you'd want to at least make sure that the next missle defense system we build that leads to our further ostracization from the rest of the world would at least be built and designed by American kids, Maasch. But that would require that we actually put money into teaching them.
And based on the reactions to my previous comment, that's hardly a priority.
Posted by edwriter at 06/07/2007 @ 3:43pm
How in the world can this MORON ( KVH ) be so deep in " fantasyland " that she KNOWS that " no threat exists". How can one be so sure? It's not provable, yet she'll alwasy defend our enemies and attack her own country first! It's a sickness called liberalism. And what's wrong with a defense shield? Has the looney left gone soooo far as to now hold the position that a defense system is an aggressive stance to the rest of the world? The next thing you know, the lib'sa will be banning locks on our doors, alarm systems, and your local police. Pure insanity, but who would expect less from a trust-fund baby, who uses loopholes to dodge taxes all the while complaining about tax-cuts for the rich ( herself ). Living in denial is easy when you live on a hilltop, looking down on the peasants, and your only real knowledge of life for the common man is from what you read and hear in your elitist circles on that hilltop! Pathetic!
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 3:54pm
And what's wrong with a defense shield? - BARRY25
This one works as good as a tin-foil hat. But the hat is cheaper.
Some people take exception to the government wasting money on projects that don't work, while starving projects that do.
Posted by Weaseldog at 06/07/2007 @ 4:05pm
Posted by BARRY25 06/07/2007 @ 3:54pm
Just curious...you chastise Ms vanden Heuvel for falsely claiming that no threat exists "How can one be so sure? It's not provable"....
yet YOU claim that she is using "loopholes to dodge taxes all the while complaining about tax-cuts for the rich ( herself )."
Can we assume, given your repugnance at unprovable statements....you can prove that?
Posted by Mask at 06/07/2007 @ 4:14pm
KVH is clearly nuts!
This thing that barely works in rigged tests is a "no-brainer"! We should spend trillions on this thing because that'll really piss those IED throwing dirty Muslims off!
You naysayers that write that we don't have trillions for something like this are also nuts. All we have to do is stop handing out welfare checks and food stamps and when the crack babies start dying of starvation we'll sell their cadavas to Archer Daniel Midland as cheap fertilizer (to raise the money)!
You know what I always say "where there's a will there's a way".
(You know what I always actually mean "Where there's a way to take tax dollars and hand them over to Lookheed and Northrup Grummond there's a will)
Posted by freedomplease at 06/07/2007 @ 4:16pm
As far as it may not work? If it stopas a few it would be better than not having any thibng to stop them at all
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 06/07/2007 @ 11:34am
And how many warheads do you think might be targeted at Sandia Labs and Los Alamos? More than a "few"? Do you think stopping a "few" is going to make a difference for us when a "few" make it through anyway?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 06/07/2007 @ 4:20pm
thye feel we will not honor our commitment and they feel ther dems will win thre elections and leave them twiting in the wind as the Bear wakes up and they are right to fear ..
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 06/07/2007 @ 12:43pm
Sort of like Bush 1 abandonong the Kurds after telling them to rise up against Hussein?
Like Bush 2 abrogating treaties when he feels like it?
Like all the campaign promises the liar-in-chief has never come close to living up to?
Is it any wonder our word is no good with the Connecticut Cowboy Snake Oil salesman in charge?
Posted by Dr Decibels at 06/07/2007 @ 4:24pm
DR Dec,
Isn't he from Maine? OK I know he went to Yale, but he's from Maine isn't he?
Posted by freedomplease at 06/07/2007 @ 4:26pm
Posted by BLUETEXAN 06/07/2007 @ 3:30pm | ignore this person
I do not believe it will be mean Rudy. but then I never thought he would run this far. nevertheless I believe it will be Romney
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/07/2007 @ 4:26pm
Missle defense is a looney idea being pushed by Boeing and Lockheed, the presumptive builders of such a system.
It doesn't stop cruise missles that fly below radar (Russia has already demonstrated this), and it certainly cannot stop a terrorist with a nuke in the back of his truck.
Stories planted about Iran being the reason for the missle defense are a red herring and make no sense at all, as Iran doesn't even have a missle capable of reaching Europe and has expressed no desire to bomb Europe.
Making defense contractors richer at the expense of the US taxpayer is all this is about. These defense contractors have spent millions lobbying Cheney for this stupid project. And Bush/Cheney should be ashamed for even suggesting a missle shield, especially without consulting Russia. It makes them look like a bunch of amatuers.
Posted by Metteyya at 06/07/2007 @ 4:28pm
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 06/07/2007 @ 4:26pm
Keenebunkeport, but schooled in Connecticut. And I like the way it rolls of the tongue.
No true Texan would accept some Yankee sumbitch buying some land and calling himself a cowpoke.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 06/07/2007 @ 4:31pm
Unprovable statements: " Bush lied about WMD ", " No threat exists " etc. Provable statements: KVH went to court and fought ( used loopholes ) to avoid paying taxes on millions". This statement has been proved many times as fact, because it is, on this very blog. If you aren't aware, educate yourself, I'm not going to research the exact case and break it down for you, but it's fact. KVH, is not alone. The great high priced hooker, Theresa Hienz Kerry ( spread her legs, made millions in Anna Nichole style, and then the male hooker, John Kerry moved in for the kill ) Paid, somehow, around 12% on 5 million in earnings in, I believe, 2004. So much for the rich paying thier " fair share " when it comes to those rich elitist liberals who constantly lie about wanting the rich to pay " their fair share " ! More proof that Lib's are all about " do as I say not as I do" ( see Al Gore, John Edwards, William Jefferson etc. )! You've been officailly clowned SON!
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 4:36pm
Let Estonia defend itself.
Posted by ZERO 06/07/2007 @ 12:55pm | ignore this person
Hey Zero....Estonia is a member of NATO remember? Now if you were living in Russia, your mad little ass would be thrown in jail so fast for anti-government rhetoric your head would spin. Or maybe, you would just end up dying a mysterious death from plutonium poisoning. Very big of you to be a courageous little insurrectionist from your safe little Seattle haven with Bangor Sub Base, Fort Lewis, McChord Air Force, and US Navy Bremerton protecting your ungrateful ass. Estonians have to deal with the very real threat of Russian incursion every day. The Estonians are our friends, and we don't have many friends left in the world. Their citizens have got more guts and courage and have suffered more than you ever will. Your offended sensibilities don't mean crap except in the blogosphere of the Nation.
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 4:40pm
Ya, and the stealth bomber was a waste of money too! No threat has existed since the great Jimmy Carter left office after the Republicans "stole" yet another election! You morons are fools!!!!! From now on you all we be referred to as Neville ( as in Chamberline )! Anybody remember him? He was a lunatic. A passive liberal whose liberalism/denial led to the needless deaths of millions. Yet the left learned nothing from it!
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 4:42pm
Barry25, I'm no fan of the Democratic Leadership, as far as I can tell they are owned by the same people that own the Republican Leadership.
Both parties seem to be happy selling us out.
But lately Bush has worked harder to ruin our nation than any politician in my memory. He even has Republicans trying to undue the damage he has wrought, if for no other reason, to keep from being voted out of office in the next election.
As far as not proving that a threat exists. Can you prove that there isn't an invisible dinosaur at you home, that will soon gobble you up? Of course not. You can't prove a negative. for ten thousand dollars, I'll sell you a plastic gun that will shoot magical foam balls that will slay this beast.
As you can't prove there is no threat, I'd advise you to take up my offer. If you don't, you'll be sorry when that invisible dinosaur eats you.
Posted by Weaseldog at 06/07/2007 @ 4:45pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/07/2007 @ 4:26pm
Rommney has to many flip flop issues and is a mormon. Both things that don't sit well with most of the republican base. However, he does fit right in on hypocrisy and bank account. He's a close second to Rudy.
Posted by BlueTexan at 06/07/2007 @ 4:53pm
Ya, and the stealth bomber was a waste of money too! - BARRY25
You could well be right. But at least it works. So unlike this missile defense shield that doesn't work at all, its not a complete waste.
The Stealth Bomber, even though its never been used in defense or in a war to defend the USA, at least works as a deterrent. We've demonstrated well enough current colonial wars that it is effective in decimating civilian and military infrastructure.
I have simple test to determine if some is a threat or not. If you're not sure about someone, Kick them where it counts. If they decide to become your lover, then they aren't a threat. If they try to defend themselves or even fight back, then you were right, they are a threat. This method has worked for Bush, all of his life.
Posted by Weaseldog at 06/07/2007 @ 4:53pm
Yet the left learned nothing from it!
Posted by BARRY25 06/07/2007 @ 4:42pm | ignore this person
Notice how this article fails to give serious attention to matters such as Chechyna, aid of Russia in development of Iranian nuclear capability, arm sales to our enemies in the Middle East, economic blackmail of former Soviet satellites who do not do Putin's will, poisoning of Litvinenko (a British citizen) and refusal of extradition, state sponsored terrorism within Russia's own borders,rampant corruption and collusion of government with organized crime, murdering of journalists who dare speak against government, internet cyber attacks in Estonia, holding Estonian embassy workers hostage in Moscow, fomenting unrest of Russian heritage Estonians in Tallinn......
Yeah...right....Bush is in Fantasyland.
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 4:57pm
Onevote,
Bush says the threat ISN'T Russia.....according to you Bush is a liar!
Posted by freedomplease at 06/07/2007 @ 5:04pm
After the Bush Presidency is over, I motion that ALL Presidential candidates be forced to go for a psychological review.....I simply cannot believe that Bush isn't at least delusional if not completely psychotic (and to you wingers I'm not kidding, I'm deadly serious).
I'm not saying that after the review the candidate should be disqualified, but at least the electorate should know that they're electing a certifiable fruitcake or someone suffering from Alzheimer's before election day.
Posted by freedomplease at 06/07/2007 @ 5:09pm
blue, Rudy has the same flip flop issues. but the key is money. Romney has raised the most. that means the big money interests like him. Rudy is so far right now, that it will be hard for him to appeal to the center.
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/07/2007 @ 5:10pm
Onevote,
Bush says the threat ISN'T Russia.....according to you Bush is a liar!
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 06/07/2007 @ 5:04pm | ignore this person
Never said he wasn't. Bush knows the "real" reason as does Putin. Kind of like Democrats 2006 campaign promises. Its all about power, not truth.
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 5:27pm
I'm not saying that after the review the candidate should be disqualified, but at least the electorate should know that they're electing a certifiable fruitcake or someone suffering from Alzheimer's before election day.
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 06/07/2007 @ 5:09pm | ignore this person
Wonderful idea. And who is going to do the evaluation? How about a lie detector test while were at it.
Posted by OneVote at 06/07/2007 @ 5:31pm
Pass some of that affluence you're smoking down this way.
Posted by WEASELDOG 06/07/2007 @ 3:28pm
Weasel
What an appropriate moniker! But, sorry pal, I've earned mine. Go get your own. You may want to give up the smoking though. That tends to get in the way of success and affluence.
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 6:02pm
From the blog at the Hawke and Dove [hawkeanddove.com] Political Punditry Podcast, political media satire that puts the pun back back in punditry:
Myron Bunkerling: Russian President Vladimir Putin seems ready to restart the Cold War over the issue of missile defense in Europe. How should Bush respond?
Brick Hawke: 1) Build the missile shield. 2) Start a rumor that it doesn't work. 3) Slap Putin's wife Lyudmila at an official function. 4) Wait for the Russian first strike. 5) Shoot down the Russian missiles. 6) Obliterate Russia in a devastating nuclear bombardment. 7) Go to underground city and breed with supermodels to create a race of super-Bushes to rule the world.
Attacus Dove: I think it's only fair that if Bush really wants a missile defense "shield" in Europe, President Putin can respond by putting missiles in our backyard. In fact, I offer up my own backyard in Olympia, Washington. It's big enough for an ICBM. Call me, Vlad.
Posted by Attacus Dove at 06/07/2007 @ 6:04pm
Posted by B_KOOL_66 06/07/2007 @ 2:06pm
B Kool
Aside from confirming my point, what was yours?
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 6:05pm
And another thing
Using liberal logic (pardon the oxymoron), we should have abandoned climate models a LOOOONG time ago because they "didn't work."
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 6:11pm
Maybe we should just bow down to liberal prescience (sarcasm) who apparently know exactly what the Earth's climate will be like 50 or 100 years from now (despite being proven wrong in the present) and who apparently know that there is no future threat from enemy countries.
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 6:21pm
Weasledog, so you're saying, without a doubt, that the missle defense shield doesn't work, and it's impossible to make it work? I wonder how many mistakes were made before the stealth " worked " or before we were able to put man on the moon? I'd bet there are many out there, far more knowledgable than you and I, that believe it can and will work! Remember, the Dem's continually believe things like diplomacy, high taxes, and throwing more money at entitlement programs, socialism etc. will work/solve problems, even though history has shown time and time again that they don't work! Dem's and Rep's believe an immigration bill ( ILLEGAL immgration bill to the rest of us ) will fix the problem, when the laws already on the books cannot even be enforced. So this type of thinking is nothing new! Regardless, I believe a missle defense system is possible, and is in our best interests, even if it enriches someone!
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 8:03pm
Mr. Bush (boy-george) has failed at everything else since 2001, so why not rattle a sword and fail there again too?
Posted by tucanofulano at 06/07/2007 @ 8:24pm
pure stagecraft...no one questions the illegal renditions,our illegal occupation or the increasing and 'collaterally damaging' airwar in iraq...bush is once again creating his own reality
Posted by toby at 06/07/2007 @ 8:32pm
Posted by BARRY25 06/07/2007 @ 4:36pm
BARRY, happy to be proven wrong about Ms vanden Heuvel and her use of tax loopholes....
with proof other than just you saying so. If you don't know how to create a link, merely post it and I'll Paste it into my address line and look at your evidence.
Posted by Mask at 06/07/2007 @ 8:37pm
Ya Bush has failed at everything. A historically low unemployment rate, RECORD federal tax revenues starting from 2003 when his tax cuts went into effect, a thriving economy, and record setting stock market. Things are HORRIBLE, no jobs, everyone is starving ( even though we have a serious obesity porblem with our poorest citizens and non-citizens : I didn't know lack of food actually made a person FATTER!) Home ownership is at it's highest level ever! Yes, Bush has failed at everything, including curing the deebilitating disease known as BDS ( Bush Derangment Syndrome ). Please, GET HELP NOW!
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 9:11pm
Mask, if you don't know hoow to search any given subject on the internet, try GOOGLE! If that doesn't work, I can't help you! What's the matter? Afraid of what you might find? be a man and step up to the plate! Not all lib's can be pansy ass, swishy boys can they?
Posted by barry25 at 06/07/2007 @ 9:13pm
This whole discussion is very surreal. Star Wars, SDI or whatever name it goes by is a perfect metaphor for Bush World; faith based policies that have no basis in reality. Countless billions spent, rigged ( and failed ) tests, fat defense contractors perpetuating the obscenity. Perhaps most obscene is that the press has not exposed missile defense as the boondoggle it is. If the true believers want to take shelter under the umbrella of " missile defense " they should set up camp somewhere and let the missiles try to penetrate their faith based shield. As for the rest of the thinking world, we would prefer that the countless billions spent had been used to benefit all of us and not the defense industry. Missile defense tracks closely with Bush. Both have failed every test and have been continually promoted. At least Bush is running out of things to screw up. The easily overwhelmed missile defense fantasy will continue to follow a Bush like trajectory, screw up after screw up, and promoted by friends in high places. If we have any self respect we will pull the plug on this defense corporate welfare and put our tax dollars somewhere they can benefit all of us.
Posted by waters at 06/07/2007 @ 9:20pm
Vanden Heuvel has been criticized for her commentary against an effort in the U. S. Senate to abolish the Federal Estate Tax. Opponents point to her own family background as contradiction of her pro-tax position on the matter. In his book Do As I Say (Not As I Do), Peter Schweizer notes that her grandfather was Jules Stein, founder of the mega-entertainment conglomerate MCA. Schweizer alleges that after Stein's passing Vanden Heuvel inherited numerous trust funds, mostly sheltered from the Federal Estate Tax, which her grandfather had established with the help of legendary tax attorney John Wright. Schweizer writes of one investment of $9 million that was ruled not to be tax exempt. When the IRS ruled the investment subject to a $2 million tax, Stein's family challenged the Internal Revenue Service and fought the case all the way to the Supreme Court, but lost.
from wiki
Posted by usc1 at 06/07/2007 @ 9:41pm
As a complex system problem-solver, I'd like to add several more points: 1. The "defense" system cannot distinguish between a satellite, a chunk of ice or a missile. 2. Incoming missile technology is far less complex than that of the defense system, so the incoming can relatively easily avoid any defense. 3. $$$ is a major consideration. Our government has been paying $9 billion a year to the aerospace industry on this futile project for years. 4. The administration bypassed the traditional (and essential) traditional military implementation system, thus guaranteeing failure, and 5. My favorite: the administration designed a computer game of their missile defense problem for members of Congress & the Senate. The only difference? The game actually works. Gloria C.
Posted by cougar1 at 06/07/2007 @ 10:39pm
As a complex system problem-solver, I'd like to add several more points: 1. The "defense" system cannot distinguish between a satellite, a chunk of ice or a missile.
Posted by COUGAR1 06/07/2007 @ 10:39pm
.....or a balloon for that matter, since a balloon in the virtual vaccuum of space will move exactly like a much heavier, and much more expensive warhead. A multiple balloon carrying ICBM therefore can overwhelm a defensive shield with decoy targets very cheaply.
There are many more simple, relatively inexpensive adjustments that can easily outwit the most expensive missile defense shield, but it's pretty obvious that missile defense is mostly a corporate welfare program for aerospace giants as well as a convenient cover for the ongoing program to weaponize space.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/07/2007 @ 11:17pm
Joe Cirincione's e-mail:
...."Better, the talks about where to site the radar will take months. Putin could well play out the clock on Bush's presidency. But how can President Bush refuse to talk? Isn't Putin doing exactly what President Bush had asked--that is, talk about cooperating on anti-missile systems? If he does refuse, he will look even more the aggressor, eroding what is left of his administration's credibility. President Bush has fallen neatly into Putin's trap. They may have to invent a new name for this gambit." ************************************************************************
This is a rather fascinating bit of gamesmanship we are witnessing. But Joe's reference to a gambit gives our intellectually handicapped president far too much credit.
A gambit in chess involves the sacrifice of a minor piece, or more commonly a pawn, in the expectation of strengthening one's own defensive position or weakening the opponents defensive position. Putin hasn't needed to sacrifice anything here since Dubya is more than obliged to simply throw away pieces without gaining so much as a tempo.
If chess is the preferred analogy then Dubya is like a child who may know the names of the pieces and the rules for their movement, but not a thing about castling, forking, skewering or even sound opening strategy.
He's toast. Unfortunately, we could be too.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 06/07/2007 @ 11:24pm
Just because the shrub's support is only with the 28% facepainters doesn't mean that the "Deadenders" over at PNAC aren't going to continue to push their "World Domination" plan one more time. Of cause they've screwed up everything else their plan called for, so why not this. If they can put useless missiles in Eastern Europe on the pretext of Iran lobbing nuke tipped missiles into Europe then the Neo-Nuts will have a toe hold in Eastern Europe like they do in the Middle East. They know they only have a year and a half to build their bases and get the radar and launch sites built. Got to take care of Halliburton (Unleash the energy!), Boeing and Lockheed Martin before they go.
If it doesn't work, who cares! It will never be used for defense from missiles from Iran. It will cost American tax payers hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars going to soon to be UAE's Halliburton, Boeing and Lockheed Martin. Out of our Treasury and into UAE banks. All for something that doesn't work and will never be used. Sounds to me that we're buying snake oil from the guy in the covered wagon that we'll never see again. The Neo-Nuts and the MIC corporations have to do it now, because their favorite puppet shrub isn't going to be around very long.
P.S. BARRY_WHOSE_IQ_IS_25, boy, are you funny. Why do you hate America so much? You know, they have pills for people like you. You don't have to live with all that hate. Get some help my friend.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together. - Dwight D. Eisenhower
itmfa
Posted by COProgressive at 06/07/2007 @ 11:55pm
Americans of all people should by now be aware of the irrelevance of citizens, even 60 or 70 percent of them, being against the elected government in restraining the exercise of its powers. Suppose that's the problem with representative democracy for you.
As in the land of the Brave and the Free, so in the Czech Republic, the Czech government rules:
Czech Leader Backs U.S. Missile Defense
AP
May 25, 2007
BRNO, Czech Republic - The Czech prime minister told a summit of 15 European leaders Friday that a planned missile defense system, parts of which the United States wants to base in the Czech Republic and Poland, is vital to Europe's security.
"The defense of Europe against missiles from some states and organizations is a necessary step which will significantly increase our security and also the security of our European allies and neighbors," Mirek Topolanek told the annual gathering of presidents from central, southern and eastern Europe.
The U.S. made a formal request in January to place a radar base in a military area southwest of Prague and 10 interceptor missiles in neighboring Poland as part of a planned global missile defense shield that Washington says would protect against a potential threat from Iran or North Korea.
Earlier this week, U.S. officials traveled to Europe to discuss the proposal with their counterparts in Prague and Warsaw. The anti-missile system is also likely to be on the agenda when President Bush visits the two NATO members during a trip to Europe in June. The Czech and Polish governments have both been receptive to the idea, but the proposal has run into strong opposition from Russia, which says it could trigger a new arms race."
The real news from the G8 is that Bush imposed his view on Global Warming, again had the German chancellor swooning and was seen walking off into the distance holding hands with Vladimir. Who needs diplomats when young George is on the job? That I would suggest is the real story, so who cares whether it's on Czech soil, in Poland or Azerbaijan or nowhere or if it works or not?
Posted by lrjones4 at 06/08/2007 @ 04:02am
Makes one wonder who, precisely, will get rich off Bush's new toy, and what stake they had in the decision.... Follow the money.
Posted by mikecope at 06/08/2007 @ 06:54am
By this project ,I think MR. Bush is living in A rubbish-Fantasy-land. If you want to understand ,look out what defence contracters skimming.Did you watch in the network :" over hill .. over dale " Ad.? It is " Northrope Grumman" and other dealers who give him this fantasy.
Posted by ghalib at 06/08/2007 @ 07:39am
In Bush's first 8 months in office he actively ignored the warning signs that preceded 9/11. At the same time he pushed hard to restore Reagan's Star Wars system, citing the threat of terrorists acquiring missiles . Yet, when the attack came, in a form that was eerily similar to the one he claimed concern with, Bush was totally unprepared. Every President since Dwight Eisenhower has had to deal with the threat of a sudden attack from outside the U.S. And the appropriate Presidential response would have been exactly the same. To disengage from whatever activity he was involved in, and make himself available. With the exception of Bush, the command and control mechanisms were in place.
So how is it that this President, who wanted to spend billions on defense against this threat, never took a few minutes to review what he himself would do when it occurred? As a result, when told "America is under attack," he sat oblivious during the crucial first minutes of the attack. Vital Presidential decisions and authorizations were not available to responders. Many of them, who had prepared, died doing their duty that day. Would it have made a difference if Bush had also prepared, and done his duty?
What would President Bush do if another attack, nuclear or conventional, happened today? Will he prepared this time? What about the Presidential contenders - will they go into office ignoring their duty to the nation too? I think these are important questions, and I'd like to hear some answers.
Posted by Steve Hart at 06/08/2007 @ 08:40am
I motion that ALL Presidential candidates be forced to go for a psychological review..
after the last elections 2000 and 2004, the electorate should be forced to go for a psychological review.
Posted by johannesrolf at 06/08/2007 @ 09:11am
once again, bush is trying to create a threat in order to push a defense that will do nothing but make his family and friends rich. bullshit. the russians aren't stupid and they shouldn't stand for this shit. bush takes us out of the icbm treaty and nuke non-prolif treaty and then wants to deploy anti-missle systems the world over and they talk about others in the world being aggressors!? couple this with their pre-emtion doctrine and you've got terrorism at its finest ladies and gentlemen! Bush is single-handedly turning Russia from ally and trading partner into cold-war enemy all ove again and you scared little sheeple who support him go 'bahhh. bahhh! protect us king george! we're scared of the commies/islamists/people-that-don't-look-like-us! bahhh. bahhh!' This is imperialism and the world is starting to reject it outright with leaves us in an even more dire predicatment since we depend on commie/islamist countries to keep our economy from collapsing! Jobs? Jobs? You want good union paying jobs with benefits? Not under Bush, buddy. They pass laws making it illegal for federal workers to unionize! That's their idea of freedom for ya! You want a giant public works project? How about retro-fitting all the homes in america with wind or solar power? It'd cost about $2 trillion which is what we'll end up spending on Iraq before it's all over! How would you like to not have any more utility bills? Now THAT's FREEDOM! How about rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure? There are much better ways to be spending our money than bogus defense systems for threats that don't even exist yet! We need to slash the military not keep building it up. Cut defense! Close the bases outside of the US. The Constitution states that there should be no large standing federal army! Only State Militias and if Congress wants war they have to declare it and call up an army from volunteers from the states! It's time to shut down the military industrial complex, people. The cold war is over and large scale conflicts like we had in WWII are a thing of the past. No one is dumb enough to try to invade our country and if they do, we'll deal with them handily. Wake up people before what's left of the Constitution is gone for good.
Posted by fattkidd at 06/08/2007 @ 09:25am
GW was born in New Haven, CT. The land of illegal aliens!
Posted by abell12ct at 06/08/2007 @ 09:48am
Follow the money.
Posted by MIKECOPE 06/08/2007 @ 06:54am
You got that right! Follow the money, follow the money, follow the money.
Now we have evolved from being the Policemen of the world to being the Protector of the world.
This is just ridicules. Maybe we should just let the Neo-Nuts have their way. Then we could change our Nation Anthem to Randy Newman's Political Science and we'll all sing before each baseball game and NASCAR race....
No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them
Boom goes Tehran and boom Abu Dhabi
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me
They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now
We have all those Nuqclear bomb just sitting around, so let use them, we paid for them, so let drop the big ones now.
Go Neo-Nuts.....
"They all hate us anyhow, So let's drop the big one now" - Randy Newman
itmfa
Posted by COProgressive at 06/08/2007 @ 10:09am
GW was born in New Haven, CT. The land of illegal aliens!
Posted by ABELL12CT 06/08/2007 @ 09:48am | ignore this person
Yeah, they all came down from the Plymouth Colony in what is now Massachusetts. Ask a Wampanoag.
and worthless preppy Yale cheerleaders that were born with silver spoons up their noses.
'The first time I met Bush 43 … two things became clear. One, he didn't know very much. The other was that he had the confidence to ask questions that revealed he didn't know very much.' - Richard Perle
itmfa
Posted by COProgressive at 06/08/2007 @ 10:24am
GW was born in New Haven, CT.
Posted by ABELL12CT 06/08/2007 @ 09:48am
So then he's just another Carpet-Bagging Yankee preppie cheerleader bitch who inherited money but no brains or balls.
Yippee for us.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 06/08/2007 @ 12:12pm
The gushing over Putin's brilliancy makes me sick, Katrina. You would shit your little panties if he were OUR president, doing to our freedoms what he's doing to his own people's. Or maybe not, given your connection to the Russian ruling class.
Posted by Person at 06/08/2007 @ 12:40pm
er, it's their country. I think you missed your calling Maasch. emperor of the whole world would be a more fitting job for you.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/07/2007 @ 11:46am
Actually, George W. Bush is bidding fair to have that particular job (sorry, Maasch!)
Re Bush's missile defense fantasy, well, that's pretty much in keeping with the fantasy nature of his entire presidency isn't it?
Can't fault Bush for inconsistency of perspective, now, can we? He lives in a completely enclosed world of cryptofascist fantasy, the "Bubble Boy's" bubble.) Since this extends to everything he does, I'm starting to feel all criticisms of Bush that aren't aimed at simply getting him out of there ASAP are pretty pointless. Because a major part of the Bush Fantasyland is not only not admitting that you haven't made any mistakes (because you can't) but not BELIEVING you've made any -- EVER.
I'm reminded of the old C&W song,"You work your fingers to the bone and whaddaya get? Bony fingers!" Criticize Bush till you're blue in the face and what do you get? A blue face.
Posted by w_m_bear at 06/08/2007 @ 1:47pm
Sorry, but GW is NOT from Maine. Our New England states might be small, but please don't confuse them. The Bush family is originally from Connecticut (the state that Prescott represented in the US Senate). Long before GHW became Pres or VP or even director of the CIA he moved the family to Texas to take part in the Oil business there. GW considers himself to have been raised in Texas. He wasn't educated in Conn, but at Phillips Academy, Andover (Mass).
The Bush family has long had a summer home in Kennebunkport, Maine (damn!), but only after GHW retired from the WH did it become a more full-time home. The Bushes are NOT from Maine, and neither of them has every won an election there.
Sorry for the defensiveness, but a Mainer's gotta keep things straight when it comes to our little state.
Posted by Rintrah at 06/08/2007 @ 1:56pm
Well, we KNEW Iraq had massive stockpiles of wmd's and a thriving nuclear program. We knew this because Chimpy NEVER lied. We KNOW that these wmd's were moved into Syria, because some radio talk show host suggested it.
We KNOW that if we pull out of Vietnam we will be speaking Chinese in 2 years.
We KNOW that the star wars program is a success because it has never had a complete successful test, and McDonald douglas/Boeing/Lockheed Martin have NEVER fudged records or supplied materials at inflated prices.
We KNOW that Plame was not covet, and Libby just forgot his dozen conversations about her. We KNOW this because that is what a fair trial proved.
Yep, you neo-cons sure do KNOW a lot.
baa baaa. Run away, be afraid, don't ask questions. Accept what the guvt tells you, they have never lied before. Ask for the moon, but refuse to pay for it.
Posted by crabwalk at 06/08/2007 @ 1:56pm
Whoops! GHW beat Dukakis in Maine in '88.
Posted by Rintrah at 06/08/2007 @ 1:58pm
Posted by PERSON 06/08/2007 @ 12:40pm
But, Putin has a good soul!!!!!
chimpy said so, so it MUST be true!!!!
Posted by crabwalk at 06/08/2007 @ 1:59pm
What's $115 billion to people that want lower taxes?
What's a 20 year old failed program to people that believe in results and accountability?
What does the citizens of Czeck-land opinions matter if WE, the great US feel afraid of a non-existent weapon? Screw 'em. We are the world police. Except in Sudan, Burma, Nigeria and China.
What's a little genocide amongst trading partners?
Posted by crabwalk at 06/08/2007 @ 2:04pm
I just love little BARRY. "It is well documented", but he will not supply the documents.
Still can't figure out why the Army won't take the l'il fella. I am sure he has tried to enlist, many times. What with his strong desire to guard the country from evil doers, both real and imagined. Maybe that asst. mgr position at The Burger Hut is just too much to hope for, but he clings to the hope and so is unwilling to make any sacrifice, lest his dreams be squashed forever.
Are you wearing your boxers, BARRY? Good.
Do I make you horny, still? good, good.
Posted by crabwalk at 06/08/2007 @ 2:14pm
Posted by PERSON 06/08/2007 @ 12:40pm
But, Putin has a good soul!!!!!
chimpy said so, so it MUST be true!!!!
Posted by CRABWALK 06/08/2007 @ 1:59pm | ignore this person
F Putin.
Posted by Person at 06/08/2007 @ 2:28pm
like the "reliable replacement warheads" proposal, this "missile shield" is about defense contracts. This "free market" economy can't run without major federal subsidies of our defense system, so they need to invent things like Star Wars, and whip up some good old fashioned fear domestically in order to justify spending billions on this stuff rather than funding social services for Americans with American tax payer dollars. Without fear, most Americans would be outraged at the idea of this "missile shield" at the expense of say public transportation/ education/ health care, etc...I mean, look at Barry, he's obviously scared shitless.
Posted by rzs at 06/08/2007 @ 3:06pm
Posted by RINTRAH 06/08/2007 @ 1:56pm
We understand completely. That's why I call him the Connecticut Cowboy. And a few other things as well.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 06/08/2007 @ 5:25pm
Its sad to say but, the only true remedy is to just give bush and company some more rope.this administration is giving history something it never could have imagined,an indelible lesson in folly.
Posted by pat garrett at 06/08/2007 @ 6:05pm
Posted by BARRY25 06/07/2007 @ 9:13pm
Thanks BARRY....I figured you just made it up.
Posted by Mask at 06/08/2007 @ 8:56pm
How about that MANNED MISSION TO MARS????
Conservative idiots may not remember Bush said this. So, Conservative idiots, when does the manned mission to mars take off?
Posted by conshame at 06/09/2007 @ 10:55am
Bush the fucking idiot Conservative Republican:
"With the experience and knowledge gained on the moon, we will then be ready to take the next steps of space exploration: human missions to Mars and to worlds beyond. (Applause.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040114-3.html
Posted by conshame at 06/09/2007 @ 10:57am
By Associated Press Published January 9, 2004
WASHINGTON - President Bush will announce plans next week to send Americans to Mars and establish a permanent human presence on the moon, senior administration officials said Thursday night.
Posted by conshame at 06/09/2007 @ 10:58am
This project aims beyond a military goal. It aims at creating a political wall. Dividing up the world into blocks again. It obviously results in further polarization of the world. Doubling of nuclear arsenal. Involvement of China in the arms race,... It is a known physical phenomenon that building barriers and walls, results in energy sequestration and build up and ultimately a burst. Unfortunately the current US government and increasingly misinformed US public are moving towards segregation and wall building policies. The threat from arms build-up on both sides of the wall in 5 years will be 100 times more than the current mostly assumed danger that it is trying to mitigate.
Posted by Whatagap! at 06/09/2007 @ 1:26pm
'Contrary to established opinion, the gravest threats to America's national security are still in Russia.'
See Stephen Cohen's article The New Cold War - in the Nation.
Instead of focus on whats most important in our foreign policy, we get bogged down in the Middle East, expending all our political, military, and fiscal capital on a hopeless and helpless cause. Meanwhile, true threats to our national security get to run free while we are distracted trying to sort our way out of the sandbox. This administration has put us in grave circumstance, and its high time we address security concerns in other parts of the world that truly do threaten us.
Posted by OneVote at 06/09/2007 @ 3:16pm
Posted by CONSHAME 06/09/2007 @ 10:58am
CS, Bush made a lot of promises here on (and about) Earth that I think we need to get conservatives to explain first!
Posted by Mask at 06/09/2007 @ 3:25pm
Robert Gates - GEORGE BUSH'S dupe at the Defense Dept, said: "We are firing Chairman Peter Pace because we should not have a hearing for him, because it would focus on the PAST. The Senators would ask Chairman PP, 'DID what you ALREADY tried work?'"
Posted by conshame at 06/09/2007 @ 3:44pm
Coundn't we just put dick cheney in space with a box of catchers mitts?
Posted by Will C. at 06/09/2007 @ 5:26pm
it would work just as well, cost a whole lot less and eliminate from the earth itself one irritating cause of war from the early twenty first century
Posted by Will C. at 06/09/2007 @ 5:27pm
in other words we could neocon those in-coming nukes
Posted by Will C. at 06/09/2007 @ 5:30pm
fight fire with liar
Posted by Will C. at 06/09/2007 @ 6:10pm
I bet that looney KVH just cursed at the screen during these comments from Bush and Putin......
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 06/09/2007 @ 9:35pm | ignore this person
I've got a feeling that there will be others who will curse this "dialogue" as well Liv. Reminds me of other deals such as trading Chechyna for military bases in Uzbekistan. I don't think NATO members (excepting GWB's version of NATO) are going to be all that comfortable with this deal. Winners here look like Putin and US military contractors. Losers are former Soviet satellites trying to assert their independence in Putin's ever widening sphere of influence. Looks like we got two imperialists dividing up the world. Reminds me of the machinations of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact between Stalin & Hitler. Putin's gambit against a hapless Bush is no cause for celebration.
Posted by OneVote at 06/10/2007 @ 10:08am
Hi Katrina
I'm watching you on CSPAN now. You mentioned the word YoYo to describe the REPUBLIKLAN party. Even if you don't publish this comment, look at
http://www.zazzle.com/maximus7/search/yoyo?rf=238083065491105452
and you will see a mug and a t shirt that I designed about 6 months ago showing the new symbol of the REPUBLIKLAN party, the Yoyo which stands for You're on your own.
and now an effort to end this war in Iraq. Go after the war contractors with boycotts of their consumer products.
THE MILLION PHONE MARCH.
No Free speech Zones. NO arrests. No marginalization by the press.
You call Republican contributor and war contractor General Electric Corporation
at 203-373-2211 http://www.ge.com and give them an ultimatum.
GET THE GOP to END THE WAR and Bush and Cheney to resign or WE DON'T BUY YOUR PRODUCTS ANYMORE.
NO CEO WANTS THEIR TELEPHONE LINES TIED UP AND TO GET CALLS FROM THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE EVERY DAY WHILE THEY LOSE MONEY. NO CEO. NOT ONE.
"The Republican party appears weak and vulnerable at the cash registers of those companies that donate money to them."
The Liberal Democratic Party of the United States
www.dmocrats.org
TELL AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN.
THE MILLION PHONE MARCH TO ENACT A REAL MEDICARE PRESCRIPTION DRUG BENEFIT
Get every person that you can to contact Walmart at 1 800 WALMART, Eckerd at 800 325 3737, CVS at 888 607 4287, and Walgreens at 800 289 2273 and Demand a real prescription drug benefit. Tell the person in the public relations department "Unless you get your CEO to get the congress and the pResident to enact a repeal of the means test in Medicare Part B, a rollback of the monthly premium of Medicare Part B to 60 dollars a month and cancel Bush's tax cuts to the wealthy above $200,000 a year of income, which should help pay for this new benefit and place a simple prescription drug benefit covering 80 percent of medication in Medicare Part B, with no means test, no extra premium, no extra deductible, no coverage gap and no late sign up penalties, I will never buy any consumer products in your pharmacy again and I will never buy any medications from your pharmacy ever again."
Only If you cannot switch your drug purchases from any of these pharmacies then when you call the 4 pharmacy chains, tell the pharmacy chain that you cannot switch from, I will not buy any consumer products from your stores until they get the CEO to get the Republican party to get a real prescription drug benefit as described above. Then continue to get your medications from the chain you remain stuck with. Then tell the other 3 pharmacy chains that you will buy nothing from them.
Do this for yourself, your parents and grandparents.
This will prove more effective than merely calling your congressman or woman because you will pressure the donors to Republican and conservative and moderate Democratic officeholders to get what we want or they lose millions of people's business and their customers money.
I hope you will join me in one of the largest economic movements for social justice.
Thank you.
Chairman, Liberal Democratic party of the United States. http://www.dmocrats.org
Posted by DMOCRATSoORG at 06/10/2007 @ 8:36pm
Thank you.
Chairman, Liberal Democratic party of the United States. http://www.dmocrats.org
Posted by DMOCRATSOORG 06/10/2007 @ 8:36pm
I'm kinda betting DMOCRATSOORG is NOT Governor Howard Dean of Vermont?
Also kinda betting the "Liberal Democratic Party of the United States'" entire membership could meet in the SMALLER banquet room of the Issiquah, WA Holiday Inn....heheh.
Posted by Mask at 06/10/2007 @ 9:23pm
MASK, your KLAN meeting could take place in a bathroom in your local porno theatre in your town.
Posted by DMOCRATSoORG at 06/10/2007 @ 9:56pm
Posted by DMOCRATSOORG 06/10/2007 @ 9:56pm |
Ok, instead of trading insults....prove me wrong.
How many members DOES the "Liberal Democratic Party of the United States" have?
Or is it just some "e-mail petition" group off of My Space?
Posted by Mask at 06/11/2007 @ 09:11am
"They may have to invent a new name for this gambit" - I think "Rope-a-Dope" fits rather well, actually; a term coined by Muhammed Ali for his match against a far inferior boxing opponent.
Posted by marko13 at 06/11/2007 @ 10:33am
Viewed from here in Europe, the problem is that when a missile passes over Europe on its way to destroy New York, an interceptor missile will be fired at it from Poland. What happens then? The nuclear warhead explodes over Europe, killing millions of Europeans? It falls to earth here, with the same effect? It certainly isn't going to stay up there or just fly back where it came from! Killing Europeans to save New Yorkers may seem a good idea in New York, but why would Europeans want to die to save New York?
Posted by Perrache at 06/11/2007 @ 7:58pm