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RedditJust one day after a majority of Iraqi lawmakers rejected the continuing occupation of their country, the Washington Post reports that the Pentagon will begin deploying 35,000 soldiers in 10 Army combat brigades to Iraq in August --"making it possible to sustain the increase of US troops there until at least the end of this year."
It turns out that the "short-term surge" is just another way of saying a war without mission or end. If it's true what the LA Times reported about Secretary of Defense Robert Gates not being on board with the "surge" policy, then who's pushing for this new policy? Not former Generals like John Batiste and Paul Eaton who, today, go on the air in a TV ad sponsored by VoteforVets.org. "You did not listen, Mr. President," General Batiste says in the ad. "You continue to pursue the failed strategy that is breaking our great Army and Marine Corps."
You'd think that a significant development involving more than half of the members of Iraq's parliament signing a legislative petition calling on the US to set a timetable for withdrawal would get some media attention. But with the exception of Alternet's story, it went virtually unreported in the US media. Instead, the New York Times devoted a front page story to Iraq's national security adviser trolling the halls of Congress trying to persuade American lawmakers to have more patience and remain as occupiers in his land. Nor have we seen front page stories reporting that in a March poll, sixty-nine percent of Iraqis surveyed said the presence of US forces in their country make the overall security situation worse.
The Iraqi Parliamentarian's courage should give Democrats the spine to stand firm --and the strength to play hardball with a President who smears those who seek a speedy end to this occupation. "Confronting Mr. Bush on Iraq,' Paul Krugman wrote, "has become a patriotic duty.'"
Meanwhile, in addition to the staggering, horrifying human and financial costs of this war and occupation (price tag for Iraq soon to top $500 billion and counting), it's now clear that the continuing deployment of personnel and equipment is endangering our security at home. The Kansas tornado has simply refocused attention on how the sending of National Guardsmen (and lots of equipment) from Kansas to Iraq has got in the way of tornado relief work, just as it impeded relief work in New Orleans after Katrina.
For four years and counting, the situation has "been spiraling down into the Night of the living Dead," as Juan Cole described it earlier this week. But Bush refuses to confront the failure of his Iraq debacle--preferring delusion and denial to listening to Congress or a majority of Americans who support setting a deadline for withdrawal.
Meanwhile, here's yet another cost of this immoral war --one that you'd think this President would pay some attention to: "Bush's evangelical supporters," Cole reports, "who wanted an Iraq war imagined Iraq as a target for missionary work. Not only have no Iraqis to speak of become Southern Baptists, but Bush's war has displaced tens of thousands of indigenous Iraqi Christians from the country."
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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The surge is just another name for stay the course.There is nothing new about this plan.It is the old plan with a new name that includes putting troop levels back to where they were and trying to get the Iraqi army to do something and try and get the Iraqi government to do something besides go on an extended vacation.Obviously,the government in Iraq doesn't care about events in their country or they wouldn't have thought of going on vacation.We're fighting for sharia law and for the Iraqi government to go on vacation.
Posted by i'm nobody at 05/09/2007 @ 1:12pm
Kat,
News to me about the Iraqi parliament now being a majority opposed to US occupation. Such is absoluetely amazing given the back door nature of the members of that well bought and paid for legislature.
And yet another example of the utter ridiculousness of our corporate media.
Posted by freedomplease at 05/09/2007 @ 1:29pm
What...them damned liberal Iraqis are voting for failure...why they're as bad as them damned heathen Demoncrats. They need to "stay the course" or it will "embolden the terrorists" and they'll follow them there - oops, they're already flocking in there huh? My bad... Anyways, back to ranting in support of GOP surreality. Tham damned Islamic cowards....serve'em right if we just left. Ooops, that's what they want huh? Well, in that case, serve'em right if we stayed. That's it...stay there forever and build permanent bases - "stay the course" "Surge forward to victory"
Bwah-ha-ha-ha. And word is, ChimpCo is gonna veto the new "compromise" funding bill. Friggin dullard.
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/09/2007 @ 1:29pm
While Bush is breaking the military in Iraq, I'd like to hear from all the "we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here" folks in regards to yesterday's arrest of the plotters in New Jersey. How do you fit the plan to attack Fort Dix into your mythology? Are you still happy?
Posted by nathanhale at 05/09/2007 @ 1:33pm
I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE JUST HOW SCARY THIS ACTUALLY ALL IS...
Evidently, Bush IS seriously delusional. We have a President who is actually both incompetent as an executive (this was proved out WAY before Bush became President) AND, essentially, nuts. I previously agreed with some Democrats who said impeachment would be a distraction but no more. Get him OUTTA there!
Posted by w_m_bear at 05/09/2007 @ 1:44pm
Where's Crabs with his "pants-shitting fear" quips...?
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/09/2007 @ 2:30pm
Nathan do you really believe this terrorist plot, to attack an army base which has lots of security and lots of people with guns? I don't. the FBI had infiltrated these guys for 15 months, that's the give away. it is always the mole that is most virulent in agitating for the attacks. it was so with the panthers and other groups in the 60s. the plant is the one making the plans and suckering the other wannabes along. remember those Miami terrorists, who wanted uniforms and boots? I wonder how that case is going.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 2:48pm
News to me about the Iraqi parliament now being a majority opposed to US occupation. Such is absoluetely amazing given the back door nature of the members of that well bought and paid for legislature.
Free, you are correct that the Iraqi "gov't" is bought and paid for. but remember they have to live in Iraq after the americans leave. so they are paving the way for a pivot, to save their hide later.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 2:50pm
"remember those Miami terrorists, who wanted uniforms and boots? I wonder how that case is going."
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/09/2007 @ 2:48pm
Oh, you mean the Kung Fu Ninja Isalmo Rebels?! What a joke. They dropped that news story when things were getting hot. I bet those guys will be quietly released anyday now. Do you think the release of the recent Fort Dix plot was not timed to put pressure on the Dems to stop sending war funding bills "with strings attached?" Naaaah.
Posted by BlueTexan at 05/09/2007 @ 2:58pm
JR-What's scary is that the only "terrorists" they're catching are the total morons who don't have boots,or who want to attack a military base,or who are too stupid to figure out how to convert an assault rifle to make it an automatic weapon.These "terrorists" are easily suckered by the feds that infiltrate them,as you mentioned.That means that the more intelligent terrorists can get away with anything if they chose to do so.
Posted by i'm nobody at 05/09/2007 @ 3:00pm
yeah, Blue, mighty mighty suspicious. 15 months. they coulda gone public anytime during that time. but they didn't.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 3:01pm
My official Bush Justice Crystal Ball™ says it's going the same way as all the other cases. Swirling downward.
I mean, how far were these geniuses going to get? They took a video of themselves at a firing range, blasting away and shouting slogans in Arabic, to a store to have it transferred to DVD. Call the CIA, there's a whole new level of stealth here!
Posted by MyParadigm at 05/09/2007 @ 3:02pm
Posted by MYPARADIGM 05/09/2007 @ 3:02pm
Talk about incompetence. If they weren't too dumb to take that video to a tape store, would they have evert been caught by the real authorities? Makes me feel real safe. Glad we are spending billons stirring up a hornets nest on the other side of the globe. Now I can sleep at night.
Posted by BlueTexan at 05/09/2007 @ 3:10pm
In a recent interview with Charlie Rose, Condoleezza Rice made as forceful a statement of why the US should stay in Iraq as I have heard. She did not mention an aggressive war on terrorism but rather described a more defensive and defensible view of protecting US interests in the Middle East. Succinctly put she argued the US should stay until conditions are created whereby the Iraquis can govern and protect the sovereign integrity of their own country. That way no one including Al Quaeda or the surrounding neighbors such as Iran, Syria, Turkey or Saudi Arabia has an open invitation to meddle in Iraq's affairs for their own non-Iraq self interests. That outcome said Rice would protect US interests as well. The trouble with Rice's statement is that it is more of a hope than a strategy. The trouble is directly related to the old saw about leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink. The hope is that Iraqui citizens would sustain a stable Iraq when created. But whether the Iraquis can establish enough trust in each other to create the required conditions within a life time (think Northern Ireland) is strictly up to them and not a part of any strategy the US can determine. The Iraquis need not drink the water of peace even if the surge succeeds in making Baghdad a relatively safe place. The Shia need not choose to be even handed now that they have the opportunity to have controlling political power. And the Sunnis of course have never been even handed. Reconciliation under those circumstances could take a very long time. It could become a bit like Israel and Palestine: evenhandedness would likely work if it were to be tried, but where is it to be found? Simon
Posted by alledge at 05/09/2007 @ 3:34pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/09/2007 @ 2:48pm
I don't doubt that these Jersey boys may have been helped along by their FBI plants. But part of the problem with the flypaper strategy is that it can be taken as a call to Muslims outside Iraq for Jihad. How many more "cells" are there in the US that are making similar plans? Is fighting them over there making us safer over here?
...On an unrelated topic, JR, can you help me out? I've been watching the NBA playoffs, but lately I haven't been able to find the Mavericks' game -- are they on the Lifetime Channel now?
Posted by nathanhale at 05/09/2007 @ 3:35pm
As regards anything about U.S. foreign policy that either the bushies or the "democratic opposition" have to say, I've long since ceased believing a word any of them say about anything. I just come back here once in awhile- I think this is my first look back in over six months- to marvel at how many educated people in this world continue to take this national administration, the capitalist imperative, or any of this crap seriously at all anymore.
Posted by Tricksterbird at 05/09/2007 @ 3:54pm
Posted by NATHANHALE 05/09/2007 @ 3:35pm | ignore this person
very cute.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 4:45pm
That way no one including Al Quaeda or the surrounding neighbors such as Iran, Syria, Turkey or Saudi Arabia has an open invitation to meddle in Iraq's affairs for their own non-Iraq self interests.
we meddle so they shouldn't meddle. this is known as circular reasoning. under Saddam's brutal rule, he's not the only one, none of its neighbors meddled in its affairs. we are long past the point where it would have been better to leave Saddam be.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 4:48pm
Of course Iraq's neighbors are going to try and influence the situation in the country next door to them. Only an idiot could fail to admit that. That's why there is no military solution to the mess. Only shrewd diplomacy can salvage something that is not a complete disaster out the situation. And to think that Iran will not benefit in the end is nothing short of wishful thinking.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/09/2007 @ 5:23pm
The only historical democracy in the middle east is hated by all the other nation states in the region. And the one we're trying to prop up as the second, is comprized of components which each hate the other. And with a culture that still believes in stoning young girls that do not date a boy of the same religion. Yep, our military can fix all that with just 20-30K more of our troops extending their tour of duty indefinitely.
Why do I keep seeing reruns of old 'I Love Lucy', simultaneously in my head, as I try to write something serious about this situation? Desi yelling "LUCY", at another screw-up while Lucy's crying the usual WWHAAAAHHHH.
When is congress going to yell at hsuB? Hasn't he screwed-up enough to deserve a "WWHAAAAH" moment?
I think so.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/09/2007 @ 6:08pm
Come on now....we are making progress. Aren't these vague statements from our VP reassurance enough that progress is being made? Unbelievable.
"I do sense today that there is a greater awareness on the part of these Iraqi officials I talked to of the importance of their working together to resolve these issues in a timely fashion," he said.
Source:
Blast reinforces Cheney's caution in Iraq ‘Long way to go,' VP says during trip that includes thunderous explosion
Updated: 2 hours, 57 minutes ago Associated Press
Posted by OneVote at 05/09/2007 @ 6:10pm
And speaking of insanity, I'm reminded of this one on Katrina's older topic related to Sanity:
"But insanity is good too:
The answer to all your questions about why this, and why that, about hsuB:
Hunh...it's like...
I don't care about nuthin man.
Roll another poll.
Yeah cuz...
I was gonna clean th' gervment up... Until I got high. I was gonna get up and find the budget... But then I got high. My plan is still messed up... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I was gonna go talk at congress... Before I got high. "C'mon y'all...check it out." I coulda created stuff and I coulda passed forms... But I got high. I'm doing it next session... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
"Go to the next one" "Go to the next one" "Go to the next one BUSSSHHOSH!"
I was gonna go read th' NIE... But then I got high. I just got a new power. But I got high. Now I'm sellin surge... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I was gonna get a new court... Before I got high. I was gonna stay unimpeached... But then I got high. "No you wasn't." They took my whole DOJ... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I wasn't gonna run from Katrina... But I was high. "I'm serious man" I was gonna help victims and not stop... But I was high. Now I'm a limp duck... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I was gonna get Iraq for keeps... Until I got high. "Say what...say what?" I wasn't gonna gamble on the OBL... But then I got high. Now the congress's pullin away... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I was gonna make Rove do you... But then I got high. I was gonna lead our country too... But then I got high. Now I'm wackin off brush... And I know why! "Turn that shit off" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
"Go...go...go...go."
I messed up your entire life. Because I got high. I lost your kids at Iraq. Because I got high. "Say what...say what" "Say what...say what...ohhhhh." Now I'm sleepin at Kennebunkport... And I know why! "Why man?" Cuz I got high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
I'ma stop speachafying this speach. Because I'm high. I'm speachafying this whole thing wrong. Because I'm high.
"Bring it back" "Bring it back" "Bring it back"
If I don't sell the next surge... I'll know why! "Why man?" Cuz I'm high. Because I got high. Because I got high.
"Are you really high though...man?"
Cuz I'm high. Cuz I'm high. Cuz I'm high.
"Hey...where the buck stops at man?"
Bu-bushi-bushi-bushi-buSSSSHHHOSSSHHH!!
Because hsuB was high, because hsuB was high, because hsuB was high, because hsuB was high, because hsuB was high, because hsuB was high,...
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 05/05/2007 @ 11:00pm"
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/09/2007 @ 6:20pm
LvLiberty-Your Marxist remark was childish,but that's you.The rest of what the general had to say has no relevance since Bush ignores the military so there was no reason to include it.Since Bush has no plan to win and never has then there is no reason to stay so the rest of his statement doesn't matter.There may have been a chance at victory had Bush listened to the military in the first place,but he didn't and unless you're going to create separate areas or countries then there is no point in staying other than to make money off of the war.
Posted by i'm nobody at 05/09/2007 @ 6:52pm
LvLiberty-Bush isn't going to listen to anyone so there is no reason to stay making the rest of the generals remarks irrelevant since he has agreed that Bush is causing even more problems with his lack of a plan.
Posted by i'm nobody at 05/09/2007 @ 7:21pm
you lack the cognitive ability to recognize contradictions.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 05/09/2007 @ 7:16pm | ignore this person
this can also be said about you, of course.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 7:26pm
LvLiberty-I support the plan put forth by Sen. Biden,but since Bush is determined to make a huge mess for someone else to clean up I support getting out now.There is no contradiction in my saying that the rest of the general's statement is irrelevant since Bush ignores the military.Bush didn't listen to this general and that he didn't is all that is relevant.
Posted by i'm nobody at 05/09/2007 @ 7:32pm
LVLIBERTY1,
Are you the one with the church in Las Vegas? I arrive LV May 31 until the 5th or 6th.
Where is your church? I will attend if possible.
Posted by john maasch at 05/09/2007 @ 7:36pm
LVLIBERTY1,
Are you the one with the church in Las Vegas? I arrive LV May 31 until the 5th or 6th.
Where is your church? I will attend if possible.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/09/2007 @ 7:36pm | ignore this person
a meeting of the minds. that should be good. easy on the sacramental wine fellas. I look forward to the report from either party.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 7:41pm
Before considering troop reductions, Batiste said at the time, the United States should do several things, such as try harder to alleviate unemployment in Iraq, secure its borders, seek more cooperation from tribal sheiks, step up the effort to train Iraq's security forces, engage Iraq's neighbors and weaken the militias.
this is a wish list, not a strategy.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/09/2007 @ 7:50pm
I hope I heard this wrong, but supposedly the NEW Democratic plan is...
give Bush the needed funds until July. Then, wait on his "address to the nation" on "how great" things are going now that the Surge is "working"....then send up a bill for the rest of the money but with a firm "redeployed by October".
The idea being that it gives Bush what he wants "short term"...but lets the Republicans come under more and more pressure to get out of Iraq (to save their asses in 2008) and that they'll support a veto over-ride in 4 months, that they wouldn't support last month.
Please tell me I heard that wrong...and those guys aren't going to pull something dumb like that?
Posted by Mask at 05/09/2007 @ 7:59pm
I have to agree wholeheartedly; the only surge I see is the surge of insanity in the Bush White House. We need to end our occupation and leave the tribes settle their age old differences the way they always have, without our help. Suppose we do succeed in securing Baghdad by September (the likelihood of which I seriously doubt). Bush will say his strategy is working but it never can succeed because of the deep tribal differences and distrust inherent in the Iraqi people. The only way they achieve stability is through the total destruction of their opponents.
Posted by luluford at 05/09/2007 @ 10:22pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 05/09/2007 @ 8:40pm
I saw a scene from the film 'White Heat', about a year ago where hsuB is playing Cagney on top of the oil storage tank yelling-- "I'm on top of the world Ma", "er, Pa"-- just before he blows everything up.
Think hsuB is exhibiting craziness now, start an impeachment, you'll see crazy. He's a bully and so will try something extremely desperate first. Then he'll fold and like a coward, without any dignity whatsoever.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/09/2007 @ 10:33pm
" meeting of the minds. that should be good. easy on the sacramental wine fellas. I look forward to the report from either party.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/09/2007 @ 7:41pm
You mean I get free wine?...:)
Posted by john maasch at 05/09/2007 @ 11:38pm
You mean I get free wine?...:)
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/09/2007 @ 11:38pm
I'm sure he has some Thunderbird in a box, 2007 a very good year for Thunderbird.
"A democratic despotism is like a theocracy: it assumes its own correctness." Walter Bagehot
Posted by COProgressive at 05/10/2007 @ 12:07am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 05/10/2007 @ 12:01am | ignore this person
And you point is? I read you blathering twice and it was just as stupid both time.
The surge may just work for president George W, as in Wrong, Bush. It kind of looks like something president W, as in Wimp, and Turd Blossom would think up to cover W, as in Worst,'s ass.
The way I see it working, in September if the violence is down even just a little, W, as in Wanker, will say the Surge worked and the level of violence is sufficient to allow for the start of withdrawal of the troops, or W, as in Wiener, will say that General Patraeus failed in his mission and now W, as in Worm, feels it is necessary for the sake of the lives of our brave solders and Marines that the "Commander Guy" commands should now start to come home. Either way, W, as in Weasel, starts to bring home our troops and takes credit for it.
Everyone in the Wacko Wrong-wing facepainters cheers loudly for W, as in Warmonger, for the great job he did.
The other sane 70% of the country keep their fingers crossed he doesn't have plans to send them to Iran.
"We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators." - Dick Cheney
Yeah, right... popular support for Darth Cheney 9%
Posted by COProgressive at 05/10/2007 @ 12:58am
forgot to add....
itmfa
"All in all, the framers would probably agree that it's better to impeach too often than too seldom. If presidents can't be virtuous, they should at least be nervous."
Joseph Sobran
Posted by COProgressive at 05/10/2007 @ 01:00am
Yeah, right... popular support for Darth Cheney 9%
Posted by COPROGRESSIVE 05/10/2007 @ 12:58am | ignore this person
I think that I read somewhere that Darth Vader had better poll numbers after he took out Obi Wan...
Posted by skeletonman at 05/10/2007 @ 07:08am
Interesting to note just how chummy the wingnuts are with the French now, isn't it?
These were the people who disparaged our Revolutionary War era allies as 'Surrender Monkeys' and wanted to call fried strips of potatoe (intentional nod to a former Veep and PNAC signatory) 'Freedom Fries.'
If nothing else, these neocon turdbirds have not a whit of shame.
Posted by skeletonman at 05/10/2007 @ 07:12am
The Iraqi "government" wants two weeks off so they can drag their feet on the hydrocarbon law. They may not be able to agree on much, but you can damn sure bet that none of 'em want anything to do with turning control of 70-plus percent of their only resource over to western oil companies.
This is the mother of all "benchmarks", and it's got everybody trying to run out the clock.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 07:15am
some mighty fine quoting, Co
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 08:11am
DRHAMMER 05/10/2007 @ 07:15am
They want to stall for two MONTHS, not weeks. Heaven only knows if they want to hammer out a back room deal, or if they're just avoiding the situation.
Posted by MyParadigm at 05/10/2007 @ 08:19am
Posted by MYPARADIGM 05/10/2007 @ 08:19am
My mistake. (Hadn't had my coffee yet.) It is two months.
I think they want to run out the clock to fuck up Bush's timing. The recent September references all fit in with his (alleged) timeline for nailing down the oil law, then dumping this mess in the lap of a new president. It could be that the Iraqis think a new administration would withdraw without fucking them out of their oil.
From today's WSJ -
"U.S. officials have been livid since discovering that Iraq's fledgling parliament - hardly a hive of activity in the first place - was planning to take a two-month summer recess, postponing work on a bill spelling out how oil money would be shared among Iraq's ethnic and sectarian groups or a law authorizing new regional elections."
The administration and the media have been describing the Iraq hydrocarbon law as a mechanism for equitably dividing Iraq's oil revenues between the country's diverse factions, when in fact it has been designed to place control of seventy to eighty percent in the hands of western oil companies.
The Sunni, Shia, and the Kurds get to figure out how to parcel out what's left of the only resource they have for rebuilding their country.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 08:38am
You propound your progressive protestations prolixly, Rese, which is paradoxically ironic given our "Main Stream Media's" avid avoidance of anything substantive. At least we here at this site, with some few and for me ignored exceptions, are aware we're "watching the wheels go 'round and 'round" (John Lennon).
Thanks for the sense of solidarity in skepticism which you provide, writers. Your eschewing cynicism is encouraging, as usual, too.
IMPEACH and IMPRISON, first Darth Cheney, please!
Posted by lewwelge at 05/10/2007 @ 08:41am
Ok, another 35,000 + support to be considered in September! Hey anyone know how many troops are already in Iraq? last count 6 + months ago it was over 250,000 with merc's and not counting Iraqi military (does it really matter which side the Iraqi military are on once we leave? They'll all fight al qaeda and not us once our troops are out.)
I'll venture a rough estimate of 350,000 US troops now with plans of getting it up to 500,000 by December, that's public and private US paid forces.
When did we have that many troops fighting an insurgency before?
Naw, this isn't anything like Vietnam since Vietnam didn't have OIL. I say it's even more like Vietnam X100, precisely because Iraq does have OIL.
Think about it.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/10/2007 @ 09:02am
liberty, batiste's later comments do not negate his previous comments at all. in fact, even a number of prominent liberals have stated that if this is such an important mission, we should send in 300,000 troops (by instituting a draft). see charlie rangel.
but sending in (piecemeal) 35,000 is just ridiculous. the "enemy" is laughing.....
Posted by darladoon at 05/10/2007 @ 09:14am
iraq and bush will go down in history (already have in fact) as the two worst disasters to ever hit this (once great) nation......
now, we are a nation of fools, who parade around in fancy cars, eat fancy food, talk on our phones about nothing, and speak only english. we are buffoons, and bush is our leader.
Posted by darladoon at 05/10/2007 @ 09:17am
thank goddess i live in san francisco, where none of the above exist.....
Posted by darladoon at 05/10/2007 @ 09:17am
Posted by DARLADOON 05/10/2007 @ 09:14am | ignore this person
NO DRAFT. Darla would you go?
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 09:18am
thank goddess i live in san francisco, where none of the above exist.....
Posted by DARLADOON 05/10/2007 @ 09:17am | ignore this person
nobody eats fancy food in SF? givemeabreak, what nonsense.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 09:42am
Ah, YES<
"now, we are a nation of fools,...Why?
Because,..
"...who parade around in fancy cars,"..we have cars that do more and are much safer than before...but I have never been in a parade with mine,,I have driven great disatnces in great comfort with great speed..relative efficiency considering. no railroads....fancy? who cares..
" eat fancy food,....."
I eat healthier, more organic,tastier and more variety than ever before..but fancy food? I am not sure what fancy food means..
"talk on our phones about nothing,..."
I talk on the phone about business, pleasure, info, and family matters, but then I have a purpose and goals other than just living and getting high....
" and speak only english....."
I speak German to a degree, but I live in an English speaking country and would expect in order to do well on all levels it would help to speak the native language ENGLISH...if I say, creep into Mexico and plan to stay there, rather than demand they speak to me in English in school, jobs, stores, TV, in all levels(as if the Mexicans are dumb enough to provide that service), I would endeavor to speak Spanish, and in a short time, wopuld be proficient in Spanish.
"we are buffoons,....."
Darla, speak for yourself as to buffoons....,you are not a typical America...
" and bush is our leader....."
Bush is our president...he stopped leading 2 years ago.
Posted by DARLADOON 05/10/2007 @ 09:17am | ignore this person
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 09:51am
This what we can stop:
War Comparison Vietnam/Iraq Study
_______________VIETNAM WAR_____________IRAQ WAR______
Year______USA______SVN_____US Dead
1959______760____243,000______--*
1960______900____243,000______--*
1961____3,205____243,000______25*__Year___US Dead_Trp Lvl_
1962___11,300____243,000______28___2003_____486__150,000
1963___16,300____243,000______70___2004_____848__140,000
1964___23,300____514,000______93___2005_____846__160,000
1965_184,300___642,500__1,594__2006____820_240,000$
1966_385,300___735,900__6,053__2007_14,829_470,000$
1967__485,600____798,700__11,058___2008__27,731__500,000$
1968__536,100____820,000__16,511___2009__42,983__610,000$
1969__475,200____897,000__11,527___2010__30,088__500,000$
1970__334,600____968,000___6,065___2011__15,645__450,000$
1971__156,800__1,046,250___2,348___2012___5,476__220,000$
1972___24,200__1,048,000_____561___2013___1,314__100,000$
1973_______50__1,110,000___________2014_____---___75,000
$ Includes MERC'S
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/10/2007 @ 09:52am
"we are a nation of fools, who parade around in fancy cars, eat fancy food, talk on our phones about nothing, and speak only english. we are buffoons.."
Too much to respond to in one line..
You will find an over abundance of fools, fancy cars, fancy food,cell phone jibberish and hopefully a great propensity to speak English...in the Castro district...
You are in a cloud of smoke too often...
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 09:55am
Hey!a another poll!!!!!!!!!
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 09:55am
During his daily conferences with Cheney and God the village idiot will be told when to end the war, probably not before Iraq signs over their oil, which is just around the corner, any day now, but of course after at least two months. You know; Surge" is the brand name for a milking machine, not sure if it is still being made, but it was called the "Surge Milker" any connotation?
Posted by Leefeller at 05/10/2007 @ 10:03am
Lee, the puppet gov't in Iraq can pass all the oil laws it wants, it will amount to nothing, as their influence does not extend beyond the green zone. look for an intensifying of the civil war if they do.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 10:07am
...Ah Katrina, an excellent marxist use of distortion and phony spin... Posted by LVLIBERTY1 05/09/2007 @ 6:32pm
C'mon, Katrina, you don't really think your distortions can be taken as seriously as The Commander Guy's "sixteen words", do you? But seriously, Katrina, cherry-picking intelligence, selectively using quotes out of context, distortion and phony spin...have you gone Republican? Are you in line to replace Fredo? Wolfo?
Posted by nathanhale at 05/10/2007 @ 10:10am
..."probably not before Iraq signs over their oil, which is just around the corner, any day now, but of course after at least two months. "
Sweet!!When do I get my share!!! I was hoping for the day to come when we get all their oil...now, how do we get it here before AQ blows it up?
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 10:26am
Sweet!!When do I get my share!!! I was hoping for the day to come when we get all their oil...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/10/2007 @ 10:26am
IT'LL JUST TAKE A JUST 'FEW' MORE THOUSAND OF YOUR NEIGHBOR'S KIDS, FATHERS AND MOTHERS TO BE KILLED-- STILL WANT THE OIL SO BAD?
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/10/2007 @ 10:43am
johannesrolf, me fight? no. i don't fight. if somebody really wants to murder me, then go ahead. i must have deserved it. but if you think i'm going to go to, say, afghanistan and fight "terrorists," forget it. i don't care about any country, not even my own, THAT much. besides, i opposed the invasion of afghanistan not just on moral grounds, but on strategic grounds. it was as stupid and ill-conceived as the invasion of iraq. and now look at the situation.
i don't live in fear of anything. if "terrorists" want to take the time and effort to bomb san francisco, let 'em. i don't care.
i'd rather ponder, "why do people want to kill americans?" do you think it's cuz we parade around the globe and take other people's stuff? kill their leaders? force christianity upon them? place military bases wherever we please? say we're the greatest? fuck that. i hate arrogance, and it's one of the reasons, perhaps the only reason, why america is suffering so greatly.
Posted by darladoon at 05/10/2007 @ 10:52am
as for my previous comments about fat, obnoxious, lazy americans. well, it was just a pithy comment, and i didn't expect anyone to respond. but there is at least some merit of truth to it, wouldn't you say? we are the most obese country on earth. we are the most vehicle-dependent country on earth. and we talk more on our phones that anyone on earth (except perhaps the japanese, but i assume the japanese talk about more important matters than, "will arnold pardon paris?")
Posted by darladoon at 05/10/2007 @ 10:54am
"if somebody really wants to murder me, then go ahead. i must have deserved it."
(That's a sad outlook.)
"...but i assume the japanese talk about more important matters than, "will arnold pardon paris?..."
Don't they have teenagers in Japan?
Ever seen a Japanese game show?
But seriously, Darla, I'm not looking to bust your chops, but some of your generalizations make my head spin.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 11:09am
Lee, the puppet gov't in Iraq can pass all the oil laws it wants, it will amount to nothing, as their influence does not extend beyond the green zone. look for an intensifying of the civil war if they do.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/10/2007 @ 10:07am | ignore this person
Jrolf,
What you say is true...but you've got to be cognizant that the Admin wants this worthless piece of paper for some reason. I ask myself what that reason is and can only assume that when a new government of Iraq declares the piece of paper null and void the US Government will have the authority to exert its influence (militarily) to uphold order. In other words, troops to defend US oil interests despite the new Iraqi political will.
On the other hand, it could just be as benign as that Bush wants Exxon Mobil and Chevron to have first mover advantages over Elf, BP or Shell.
Posted by freedomplease at 05/10/2007 @ 11:10am
johannesrolf, me fight? no.
why then would you support a draft?
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 11:33am
All in congress must know-- to vote with hsuB now, is to be voted 'out' in '08-- and that includes any dems or indies, stupid enough to do so..
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/10/2007 @ 11:39am
FREEDOMPLEASE 05/10/2007 @ 11:10am
It is in fact the official policy of the USA that the flow of energy supplies is to be protected by military force if necessary.
And let us not forget that immediately after the fall of Saddam, the Bush gang was explicit that first pick of the spoils would go to allies, not to just anyone.
It is increasingly clear that whatever legal arrangements are made, it will be a Democratic president that will end up enforcing them. And it would not surprise me at all to find that they created a situation where it's impossible to do anything right.
Posted by MyParadigm at 05/10/2007 @ 11:49am
It is in fact the official policy of the USA that the flow of energy supplies is to be protected by military force if necessary.
the flow of oil was doing just fine under Saddam, far better than under american occupation.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 11:55am
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 05/10/2007 @ 11:10am
An administration that teases troop withdrawal while building huge, permanent, city-like bases must know something (they hope) we don't.
Bush will veto any bill with a timeline, maintaining that the "benchmarks" set for the Iraqis should be the determining factor for withdrawal of combat troops. As I mentioned earlier, the mother of all benchmarks is the hydrocarbon law, and if W can synch that one up with the punch-out of the big bases, he can claim some sort of "victory", and redeploy.
The hook is that a significant portion of the "combat" troops could be redesignated as "support" troops, and left behind in our DOD Theme Parks to protect our oily interests.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 11:56am
"the flow of oil was doing just fine under Saddam, far better than under american occupation."
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/10/2007 @ 11:55am
(One more tragic irony generated by the delusions of the neocon fucksticks who authored this gameplan.)
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 12:00pm
Mypara,
I'm not sure that there is such a thing as "official policy" but I'll take your word for it.
Nevertherless, policy or not, we did not intervene miliarily in Bolivia one year ago when the gas fields were nationized. We have not intervened militarily in Venezuela. Why not? Politics trumps policy.
However, I can see a military response by the US Gov't if / when Iraq nationalizes their oil fields....ESPECIALLY if they are pro Iranian by that time. I think it's a set up.
Posted by freedomplease at 05/10/2007 @ 12:05pm
Dr. Hammer,
Frankly, it would be great if you were right. We have one more objective, then call it quits and get the fuck out.
I just don't believe it....just like I've stop believing all the other "real objective" reasons for going and then staying.
Posted by freedomplease at 05/10/2007 @ 12:06pm
Where is your church? I will attend if possible.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/09/2007 @ 7:36pm
The only reason to go to church is to check out someone's ass.
It's true: A person who is doing kneetime is doing something existentially useless and fundementally, drably pre-modern. However, the kneetime presents an ideal occasion for the cool observor to assess the contours of the kneetimer's luscious ass-cheeks and, if fortunate, glimpse some hallowed ass cleavage.
So is that why you are in such a hurry to church, MAASCH?
Posted by Glenn Lemon at 05/10/2007 @ 12:23pm
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 05/10/2007 @ 12:06pm
No, frankly, if I were to turn out to be correct, it would still be a fucked up situation.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 12:23pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/10/2007 @ 11:55am
You nailed that one (remember the good old days,a month before "Shock and awe", when gas was selling for $1.49 a gallon?). Maybe we can get LVLIBERTY1 to post some happy talk about all the ways in which life for the average Iraqi is better now than it was in 2002. How much oil is getting pumped out of Iraq these days, Chimpco?
Posted by nathanhale at 05/10/2007 @ 12:30pm
Sweet!!When do I get my share!!! I was hoping for the day to come when we get all their oil...now, how do we get it here before AQ blows it up?
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/10/2007 @ 10:26am
For someone who always poses as an arch-capitalist "libertarian", the buxom MAASCH is now giving the real game away.
He expects other people to fork over "his share". Those are his words. No mention of a transaction mediated by money, simply "we get all their oil". Again, MAASCH's words, although he leaves out the "get by force" part, dirty work that he slides off onto others in current Bushian style with State force at the fulcrum.
But what would we expect of a meathead like MAASCH who feels entitled to everything just because he periodically butt-sniffs around for a job (with his psuedo-pompous tirades about getting jobs toward other people who are no doubt better employed than himself functioning as a shabby cover for his gruesome failings) ...
Posted by Glenn Lemon at 05/10/2007 @ 12:32pm
So is that why you are in such a hurry to church, MAASCH?
Posted by GLENN LEMON 05/10/2007 @ 12:23pm
Just when I think he out loons himself...he comes through yet again..
Posted by GLENN LEMON 05/10/2007 @ 12:32pm
Keep goin'..your right on thrack and doin' fine.
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 12:38pm
"...luscious ass-cheeks...hallowed ass cleavage..."
You are deeply disturbed, Glenn.
(I only recently managed to purge the mantits image from my fragile thought process...)
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 12:38pm
I can't imagine the problems in a mind that sits around and comes up with some of these posting..IE. Lemonhead...gotta be unemployed.
Posted by john maasch at 05/10/2007 @ 12:43pm
Posted by DRHAMMER 05/10/2007 @ 12:38pm | ignore this person
it's just colorful writing, sort of pulp blogging.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 12:45pm
FREEDOMPLEASE 05/10/2007 @ 12:05pm
Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.
Jimmy Carter, State of the Union speech, 1980, enunciating what became known as the Carter Doctrine.
It was a response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. That's pretty much what I meant by "official policy". If Carter and Cheney are on the same page, I'm calling it official. Of course, Jimmy was responding to an actual threat and restricting himself to the Middle East, while Cheney would bomb the local pump-n-go, but you get my point.
Posted by MyParadigm at 05/10/2007 @ 12:51pm
Posted by MYPARADIGM 05/10/2007 @ 12:51pm
Sorry, MYPARA, that was the "old Jimmy" who was incompetent, but a moderate....not the "new Jimmy" who's incompetent but hanging out on the Left fringe now.
"New Jimmy" would NEVER be so bellicose or threatening.
hehe
Posted by Mask at 05/10/2007 @ 12:57pm
Katrina, the mission in Iraq is exactly what the Muslims say it is: build permanent military bases to get a stronghold on the Middle East and its resources. Why do you think they planted all those explosives in the World Trade Center???? Are you getting it yet???
Posted by Greekphilos at 05/10/2007 @ 12:59pm
JR,
Thanks for the deftly-crafted phrase - "pulp blogging". I like that and will probably even adopt it.
I have always found DRH's posts to be very welcome -- breif but smart -- and I wonder whether shamelessly invoking the term "mantits" is gleefully participating in what he is ostensibly condemning. Either way, I have no crits to make of DRH as he is one of the politically Enlightened in my judgement.
As for MAASCH: He is still resolutely silent on his REAL motove for cruising the church scene, so I have to assume I am on to something about what makes him seek out the site of kneetime being performed.
Posted by Glenn Lemon at 05/10/2007 @ 1:02pm
Posted by GREEKPHILOS 05/10/2007 @ 12:59pm | ignore this person
thanks, but we already have konspiracy kooks here.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 1:10pm
The hsuB admin poll to see what the US public will swallow easily or not, and then spin it out with no regard to whether any of it is true. When a certain proportion of our citizens no longer buy it, they're ready with the next fabrication. Most of the MSM pretty much got cowed, stopped caring a while back and would rather play with Nicole Smith, Paris Hilton, ... Safer than being disapeared or shot in the face, I suppose.
Congress has got to press harder, especially the remaining repubs as voters and history will ultimately place the blame for a hsuB admin debacle squarely on the previous repub controlled congresses' lap.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/10/2007 @ 1:20pm
"...and I wonder whether shamelessly invoking the term "mantits" is gleefully participating in what he is ostensibly condemning."
Oops.
(Busted.)
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 1:28pm
"I can't imagine the problems in a mind that sits around and comes up with some of these posting..IE. Lemonhead...gotta be unemployed."
(Someone should be keeping track of these.)
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 1:41pm
Obviously, it should be someone with time on their hands, unencumbered by the singular self-worth paradigm of gainful employment, or the complexities of signing checks.
Posted by drhammer at 05/10/2007 @ 1:45pm
The Iraqis want us out....is there some valid reason we don't leave?
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/10/2007 @ 2:22pm
it's really not about the Iraqis. it's a political football here at home.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/10/2007 @ 2:38pm
if we lost, who won the war in Iraq?
http://www.exile.ru/
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/12/2007 @ 12:03am
hey kids, check the parody army ads in MAD magazine.there's stuck, and there's army stuck.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/12/2007 @ 09:23am