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RedditRepresentatives Barbara Lee and Lynn Woolsey – co-Chairs of the Congressional Progressive Caucus – aren't concerned about the close-to-conventional wisdom that conservative and Blue Dog Democrats will dominate the next Congress.
The CPC – already the largest caucus in Congress with 64 members – is expected to add at least seven new Democrats after this election. (Eight of the twelve candidates who received campaign support from caucus members won their races, including: Jerry McNerney (CA); Phil Hare (IL); Keith Ellison (MN); Bruce Braley (IA); John Hall (NY); Mazie Hirono (HI); Gabrielle Giffords (AZ); and Julia Carson (IN).) The CPC will now be represented in the Senate, too, where Senator-elect Bernie Sanders has pledged to remain a member and help recruit his new colleagues, and Sherrod Brown is expected to do the same.
Most significantly, the CPC's pressing issues are in sync with the American public's interests and desires. "We represent the real democratic values of our party," Woolsey says.
"We are a big tent party, but it was the war and economic issues that won this election," says Lee. "CPC members were the ones who didn't vote for the war in Iraq; and CPC members were the ones who called for an end to the Iraq War. And as far as the economy goes, proposals like raising the minimum wage are part of the progressive agenda."
Woolsey believes that the diversity of ideas within the party represents an opportunity. "Our party can prove to the nation that we represent all Americans – not just a slice of America. But our role is clear: if we sat quietly and let moderate Democrats become the left edge, then right-wingers would sail….They wouldn't look so right-wingy anymore!"
The Caucus has a clear vision for the upcoming Congress. It will support former-CPC member and Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi on her First 100 Hours and Six for '06 initiatives. But both Lee and Woolsey say that the CPC is focused on going "beyond that." They point to the caucus' Progressive Promise which outlines its goals in the areas of economic security, civil rights and liberties, global peace and security, and environmental protection and energy independence.
"We have to keep our promise to the American people by passing our Progressive Promise," Lee says.
Among other legislation, Woolsey looks forward to the CPC's unveiling of its "Peace and Security" budget this Spring. It will show "what a budget would look like if we invested in peace." She points to addressing the Patriot Act and Homeland Security ("make our nation more secure but not by taking away our rights"); making elections genuinely secure ("we as Democrats didn't do enough about that in the past two years"); taking on media control ("the FCC needs to know that we need more than a few corporations controlling the media"); and taking real steps to free the nation from dependence on foreign oil.
And, of course, responding to the crisis in Iraq.
Lee says the CPC will work to ensure that the Democratic Caucus as a whole embraces ending the war. It will work with its "millions of supporters," using the same "inside-outside strategy" that led to so many critical victories on Election Day. Many members will march with supporters and do all they can to expose the cost and devastation of the war and occupation. Meanwhile, the Out of Iraq Caucus – chaired by Rep. Maxine Waters and co-founded by Lee and Woolsey, among others – will present clear alternatives to the Administration's policy.
Lee makes it clear that it was the Bush Administration that "got us into this mess. And its going to have to get us out. But we'll come up with our specific proposals--including diplomacy with Syria and Iran."
The CPC will also maintain its laser-like focus on reducing poverty, which Lee notes isn't just an urban problem but impacts rural communities too.
With at least 10 CPC members expected to chair committees, and 35 members chairing subcommittees, both Lee and Woolsey are confident that the caucus' ideas and vision will inform the Democrats' approach on issues across the board.
"We'll be a steady and firm part of the debate," Woolsey says. "We'll get our amendments introduced. We'll have a voice."
Lee points to the critical role of witnesses in hearings. "We'll get a chance to call our witnesses," she says. "New ideas will be brought before the committees. Listening to people and presenting new ideas – that's how you come up with good legislation. Speaking [as a Representative from California], we are going to call more African-American, Latino, and Asian Pacific Islander American witnesses. We're going to call on our best and brightest. Republicans didn't do that."
Hearings will also allow CPC members to do their job of oversight. "We had a Republican Congress of No Oversight," Woolsey says. "The American people have been left with blanks where there should be answers. How did we get into Iraq? Where did the Reconstruction money go? Why did Abu Ghraib happen? What went wrong during Katrina? We will investigate and we will get answers. [CPC member] John Conyers will chair the Judiciary Committee – what more can I say?"
Lee and Woolsey are both reflective about the disastrous period which has now – in part – ended, and the work that lies ahead.
"Our country was on the brink," Lee says. "Domestic surveillance, torture, suspension of the Geneva Conventions. Our fundamental notion of democracy was at risk. Now we've got to take our country back. We were close to losing it, now we have to restore our democracy."
"My message to my leadership is this: this country elected us to be bold," Woolsey says. "They didn't elect us to wait for James Baker to report. They said they trust Democrats to get us out of Iraq. And they didn't elect Democrats to simply be partners with President Bush – rather, the public told us to correct, challenge and confront the President. I believe in nothing but boldness from this point on."
"This is a defining moment and we can't lose it," Lee adds. "It's full steam ahead."
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Katrina vanden Heuvel
Thoughts on politics, current affairs, riffs and reflections on what’s in the news and what’s not--but should be.
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"NO, it's OUR Revolution!"...."NO, NO, it's OUR Revolution!"...."No, you b*****rds, it's OUR REVOLUTION...we MIGHT let you come along with us, but only if you agree to everything we say"....."No, WE might let YOU come along with US, if you agree with everything that WE say...We won this Revolution!"...."No WE did!"
Posted by Mask at 11/19/2006 @ 10:15pm
Posted by MASK 11/19/2006 @ 10:15pm
I see you and your invisible friends have finally banded together mask.
With luck, one day you may be a real boy
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 10:20pm
I'll be interested someday to learn what she really means by that. What diplomacy with Syria and Iran looks like to someone like Barbara Lee...
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 10:37pm
Since you're here and she isn't, why don't you tell us what it means to you. That way we might get a picture of the mind of a man that wants to crawl into his spider hole and hide.
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 10:42pm
it's amusing listening to zero bash me for supporting california women, and then read this.
Posted by darladoon at 11/19/2006 @ 10:56pm
there was ONE congressperson who got our entire foreign policy right back in 2001, and that was barbara lee. the only person to vote against afghanistan.
in retrospect, not only was iraq a huge mistake, but afghanistan was too
Posted by darladoon at 11/19/2006 @ 10:57pm
in retrospect, not only was iraq a huge mistake, but afghanistan was too
Posted byDARLADOON 11/19/2006 @ 10:57pm
You have to go back further, to the election of the chimp. That was the mistake.
It all starts there.
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:00pm
the "reason" we invaded afghanistan was retaliation for 9.11. in retrospect, there was no intelligent reason to do so: the 19 hijackers are dead. they got us. and we'll never be able to get them back.
Posted by darladoon at 11/19/2006 @ 11:03pm
What diplomacy with Syria and Iran looks like to someone like Barbara Lee...
diplomacy looks like......diplomacy. currently, we have no diplomacy with either country, though we do (apparently) ship our prisoners to be tortured there.....
Posted by darladoon at 11/19/2006 @ 11:04pm
And I didn't say anything about wanting a spider hole, or hiding. But you can make up anything you want, can't you? That's cool with me.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:02pm
I didn't make up your natural urge to stock up on survival gear, canned goods and other provisions everytime Barbara Lee starts talking
I just gave it a place to go when that first wave of paralysing, heart stopping, pants shitting fear sweeps over you.
now... answer my question
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:06pm
Hmmm, good post. Nothing more needs to be known about you.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:05pm
that's probably all you could handle fribaby
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:07pm
so it worked out quite well for you didn't it?
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:08pm
Fear is your thing not mine, Will. My life isn't driven by fear at all. But you can say it is if you want.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:08pm
like I said , I didn't make up your natural urge to stock up on survival gear, canned goods and other provisions everytime Barbara Lee starts talking
those are the actions of someone who is afraid
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:11pm
Oh, and no, it didn't work out at all.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:09pm
so then you lied, it wasn't all you needs to know about me
a coward, a liar... let me guess, a republican
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:12pm
Will, are you planning for retirement at all? Do you do that out of fear, or do you find it prudent?
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:12pm
I don't plan for retiremnent everytime a congresswoman talks.
that would be a sign of... fear
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:15pm
I'll leave you to your anger and feelings of helplessness the Chimp, as you call it has caused you, Will. I have better things to do than spar with you right now. But feel free to call me names. Good night.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/19/2006 @ 11:15pm
helplesness?
I'm not the one fleeing Ha Ha Ha Ha
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:16pm
and does laughter sound like anger to you?
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:16pm
freiheit just called bush an it.
we do have to talk to syria and iran frei. just about everyone is coming around to this idea, finally.
Posted by loveloki at 11/19/2006 @ 11:22pm
so.....should we call him names? the survival gear comment practically begs for it.
:)
Posted by loveloki at 11/19/2006 @ 11:27pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 11/19/2006 @ 11:27pm
In the bitterness of defeat, the hamsters sure have become hyper-sensitive to any but the finest in names sent their way.
yet they mindlessly backed incompetance and corruption right up to the point of that defeat
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:32pm
these people have it all bass ackwards
Posted by Will C. at 11/19/2006 @ 11:34pm
Face it you do not have a clue!!!!!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 11/20/2006 @ 12:00am
you might what to give her a little credit in the clue department rio. Loki did say just about everyone. And then you came along to represent the component that just about everyone doesn't include
your timing couldn't have been better
Posted by Will C. at 11/20/2006 @ 12:05am
i wasn't talking to you deliverance boy. it's nice for the hogs that you've left them alone for awhile, though.
Posted by loveloki at 11/20/2006 @ 12:06am
We have nothing to fear but the "ship of fools" in control of congress for the next two years!
Posted by RIO BRAVO 11/20/2006 @ 12:08am
We know rio. I've been saying you hamsters are best defined by the paralysing, heart stopping, pants shitting fear that washes over you.
You should hang out in the spider hole with frieheit. That way you two lovebirds could enjoy your stink together
for if you don't enjoy it together you will surely wallow in it alone
Posted by Will C. at 11/20/2006 @ 12:14am
they chant death to america. they teach their children to chant death to america. they burn american flags.
we have fucked with their country and caused misery in their country at least since 1953. we talk big about humanitarian concerns but our actions show we could give a shit about humanitarian concerns. our only concerns have been demonstrated loud and clear by our behavior. that is pure greedy monetary self interest alone.
i would chant death to america too. what they chant or what form of government they have is none of my fucking business. i don't like the way muslims treat women. but guess what? that's none of my fucking business. i don't like the way our country treats women either. maybe we should clean up our own backyard before we're cutting on everyone else.
they cherish good manners and respect and honor.
bushco. acts like an ignorant thuggish teenager. and a very stupid one at that.
axis of evil after they helped us with afghanistan.
the real leader says he would accept a two state solution with palestine and israel.
russia probably already sold them all of the nuclear technology they need to blow us away.
our buzzword is freedom. their buzzword is justice.
i've kept all of these different aspects very brief in the hopes it may trigger an actual thought process in that fat deliverance-boy head of yours rio. try not to have a meltdown if thinking actually does occur. dumbfuck.
Posted by loveloki at 11/20/2006 @ 12:43am
and there are some hopeless morons over there that worship bush and "the gang" just like you do, rio.
Posted by loveloki at 11/20/2006 @ 12:51am
FREIHEIT,
North Korea has developed and tested nuclear weapons on Bush's watch and you wish to claim it is now time to run and hide because your rightwing friends no longer control Congress?
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:23am
LOVELOKI,
No one is going to blow you away using nuclear technology attached to a missile or warhead. The United States can track any missile that should hit it, and with 8-12,000 usable and ready nuclear warheads America could destroy the planet a 100 times over. People should really see through all this nonsense for what it really is and that is ridiculous fearmongering run amok. For as long as we maintain our nuclear arsenal, NO NATION ON EARTH WILL EVER LAUNCH A FIRST STRIKE AT US.................
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:27am
RIO BRAVO,
Since when did you rightwingers ever care about the U.N., what its purpose is or what it does? It is astonishing that Israel can defy the U.N. not a peep of protest. Other nations defy it and you people use that as a lame flimsy excuse to launch another ill fated invasion somewhere. Don't use the U.N. only when it suits you. If one nation has to comply with the U.N. then all nations that are a part of it have to.................
Besides, stop being a coward. No nation on earth will launch a first nuclear strike against the United States and Israel.
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:30am
MASK,
Pretty funny. Keep up the good humor..............
------------------------------------------------------------------ NO, it's OUR Revolution!"...."NO, NO, it's OUR Revolution!"...."No, you b*****rds, it's OUR REVOLUTION...we MIGHT let you come along with us, but only if you agree to everything we say"....."No, WE might let YOU come along with US, if you agree with everything that WE say...We won this Revolution!"...."No WE did!"
Posted by MASK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:31am
We have nothing to fear but the "ship of fools" in control of congress for the next two years! _RIO
then why the constant posting of Muslim diatribes? No one, and I men no one, is more afraid than you "Brave River". Oxymoron Man. Banjo Boy. Scared Witless Drone. You fear democracy almost as much as you fear muslim children. Even backed up by the worlds largest stockpile of nukes, you cower behind Chimpies skirt.
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:40am
FREIHEIT, MASK, Rio Bravo, LRJONES4,
You have hit an iceberg! Crunch time, people! Time to choose! Yesterday, Wolf Blitzer announces the neocons have deserted a sinking ship. Michael Rubin, David Frum, Richard "The Prince of Darkness" Perle and Kenneth "Mr. Iraq will be a Cakewalk" Adelman have resigned their cheerleading commissions from the Bush White House. In the face of beng discredited, will you do what they have done, and abandon ship and grab a life raft or will you stay onoboard the Titanic with Bush and Cheney waiting for the inevitable outcome?
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:43am
Tonight, after "Bachelor Women Tell All". .. One more reason to pull the corporate media down. Go get em girl(s).
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:44am
Rio, Call up Gen Odom and tell him he is a coward. Please. With sugar on top.
Cut and Run' Must be First Step in Iraq by William E. Odom
The United States upset the regional balance in the Mideast when it invaded Iraq. Restoring it requires bold initiatives, but "cutting and running" must precede them all. Only a withdrawal of all U.S. troops - within six months and with no preconditions - can break the paralysis that enfeebles our diplomacy. And the greatest obstacles to cutting and running are the psychological inhibitions of our leaders and the public.
Our leaders do not act because their reputations are at stake. The public does not force them to act because it is blinded by the president's conjured set of illusions: that we are reducing terrorism by fighting in Iraq, creating democracy there, preventing the spread of nuclear weapons, making Israel more secure, not allowing our fallen soldiers to have died in vain, and others.
But reality no longer can be avoided. It is beyond U.S. power to prevent sectarian violence in Iraq, the growing influence of Iran throughout the region, the probable spread of Sunni-Shiite strife to neighboring Arab states, the eventual rise to power of the anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr or some other anti-American leader in Baghdad, and the spread of instability beyond Iraq.
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:48am
Posted by POSEIDON 11/20/2006 @ 08:31am
The humor is in the TWO fallacies of Ms vanden Heuvel's article....1. that the Progressive Caucus "will dominate the next Congress" as opposed to the moderates or even "blue dogs". What she leaves out is, even though they are are larger percent of Democrats...there are still a few hundred REPUBLICANS in the Congress and if they join forces with the "blue dogs" or conservative Dems....THEY are the majority.
Nothing "nutty Left" is going to get passed and if you eliminate "nutty Left" (despite Ms vH's claim) you cut out a LOT of the Progressive Caucus' agenda.
and 2......it's NOT a "Revolution". This was a rejection of the Republicans, not a "Renaissance of liberalism".
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 08:50am
Posted by POSEIDON 11/20/2006 @ 08:43am
They are waiting for Leonardo to come save them. The posse of Leo, The Rock, Dirty Harold and Marion Morrison. The world is just like the movies, right?
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:51am
Posted by POSEIDON 11/20/2006 @ 08:43am
BTW, since you're new here....I'm not in the FREIHEIT/RIO Camp.
I voted for Kerry and a straight Dem ticket for Congress this time. I voted for Clinton twice, and regret my vote for Bush in 2000.....but I'm no liberal either.
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 08:51am
CRABWALK,
You are absolutely right. I am amazed at how fearlful and cowardly the rightwingers in this country are. They fear virtually everything that isn't like them. It would almost make one feel sorry for them................Not!
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:55am
POS, that's an awful lot of ex-cheerleaders running around The Hill. Which party do they belong to?
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:57am
New business opportunity. Lil' hamster handcuffs, pom poms, spider holes (although the toilet paper tube will work for that)...
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 08:59am
MASK,
MASK, what I was saying was tongue in cheek. It was funny the way it was phrased, I wasn't talking about the anyalysis itself. As for what the Congress will do, that remains to be seen with the exception of one issue, the Iraq quagmire continues............
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 08:59am
CRABWALK,
I guess they need a hero...............
------------------------------------------------------------------ They are waiting for Leonardo to come save them. The posse of Leo, The Rock, Dirty Harold and Marion Morrison. The world is just like the movies, right?
Posted by CRABWALK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 09:01am
CRABWALK,
I was specifically talking about the neocons who are clearly Republican...............
------------------------------------------------------------------- POS, that's an awful lot of ex-cheerleaders running around The Hill. Which party do they belong to?
Posted by CRABWALK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 09:02am
MASK,
Call me liberal and I will say "Thank You". Then just how would you place yourself on the political spectrum?
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 09:06am
MASK,
To admit that your vote for Bush in 2000 was regretable, that makes you liberal because you speak the truth..............
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 09:07am
Posted by POSEIDON 11/20/2006 @ 09:06am
Realistic libertarian.
Which means I don't have an idealized view of the world...or even of libertarianism, which obviously can never be achieved, just strived for.
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 10:38am
when mask voted for bush in 2000, bush appeared to be moderate and rational...sort of...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/20/2006 @ 10:43am
the fact that almost all 9/11 perps were saudis bears more reflection. the reasons for that are the following.
Bin Laden is not interested in overthrowing or invading america. he wants to overthrow the Saudi monarchy. he is Saudi and he used the presence of the american troops left there after '91, as a casus belli to attack the US.Those troops are gone now, wisely removed after the attack by cut and run Bush.
the invasion of Iraq was a great big present for Osama, giving him more issues to recruit terrorist soldiers, and presenting him with a place to attack americans, without having to try to infiltrate them into the US. They're fighting us there so they don't have to fight us here.
Bush made and makes only a phony attempt to capture Bin Laden, difficult as that may be. He is far too valuable as the personification of the "enemy" in the world wide war on terra.
there are two competing world views here, incidentally. one is the world wide web, with its promise of world wide communication, commerce, and peace. the other is the world wide war on Terra, which promises endless war and bloodshed.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 10:51am
poseidon, i am not afraid of being blown away by iran. i was just trying to explain to rio that we really have no idea what is going on over there. our best option is to talk with them respectfully.
and poseidon, you're really not new here are you? i remember you posting here almost a year ago.
Posted by loveloki at 11/20/2006 @ 10:52am
excellent post johannesrolf. i know you have tried to explain this fact many times before. perhaps someday it will sink in.
Posted by loveloki at 11/20/2006 @ 10:54am
Feliz Lunes, amigos! Go Congressional Progressive Caucus! (as far as you're able to lead we who try to understand and oppose both intraspecies aggressiveness AND the banality of evil).
Posted by lewwelge at 11/20/2006 @ 10:56am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 11/20/2006 @ 10:43am
No...just didn't trust Gore and his "lockbox". Surplus needed to be returned, that's why it's called a "surplus".
Bush pre-9/11 looked more "caretaker" than radical "I'm going to build a new worldist". If he had stuck with that, he'd probably be okay to today.
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 10:58am
Not only was it a gift for recruitment, but as RIO can undoubtedly attest with his fine attunement to Jihad sites, it fits in with Usamas plan. Get the US bogged down in a ME country, drain our treasury and get us to set aside our ideals. Mission accomplished. With the full support of a frightened populace.
Posted by crabwalk at 11/20/2006 @ 10:59am
MASK,
Fair enough. Sounds reasonable to me........... -------------------------------------------------------------------
IBBLEBLIBBLE,
If the past is prologue, then history clearly shows that there is not such thing as a moderate Republican on foreign policy. No logical sane person should have fell for that con in 2000.
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 11:17am
LOVELOKI,
I am sort of a novelty. It's deja vu all over again. Like Iron Maiden I have been here before.........
Perhaps we don't know what is going on over there in Iran, because WE DON'T NEED TO KNOW. It's none of our business what they are doing there unless Iranians come here (which I doubt) spoiling for a fight. As for negotiating with Iran, do you really think after Axis of Evil and threats of airstrikes the Iranians will negotiate with us? Running to them now is a sign that America has bitten off more than it can chew in Iraq and they will not negotiate with us unless we drop the stupid pretense that "WE" will not allow them to create nuclear weapons.............
poseidon, i am not afraid of being blown away by iran. i was just trying to explain to rio that we really have no idea what is going on over there. our best option is to talk with them respectfully.
and poseidon, you're really not new here are you? i remember you posting here almost a year ago.
Posted by LOVELOKI
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 11:23am
Congressional Progressive Caucus members Tom lantos, Maxine Waters, Henry Waxman, and a variety of other "liberals" in action:
On Thursday, both the House of Representative and the U.S. Senate overwhelmingly passed resolutions defending the policies of right-wing Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon in the occupied territories. Human rights activists are alarmed, both at the strong Congressional support for a repressive military occupation as well as the fact that the resolutions are being widely interpreted as an attack on the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups.
This not only puts the House of Representatives in direct contradiction of reports from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, but of Israeli peace and human rights groups like B'Tselem, Gush Shalom and Yesh G'vul. These Israeli organizations, which have many IDF reservists in their ranks, have reported that the apparent goal of the Israeli offensive was to dismantle much of the civilian infrastructure of Palestinian society. The Israeli and international news media have graphically shown the wanton destruction of homes, offices, schools and utilities with no connection whatsoever with any "terrorist infrastructure."
It is perhaps not surprising that the more harshly-worded House resolution, sponsored by Assistant Majority Leader Tom DeLay, was backed by virtually the entire Republican Right. Yet the chief co-sponsor of the resolution was none other than Tom Lantos, the liberal California Democrat who chairs the Human Rights Caucus. Other prominent liberals supporting the resolution included Nancy Pelosi, Robert Matsui, Maxine Waters, Henry Waxman, Mark Udall, John Lewis, Lane Evans, Barney Frank, Edward Markey, Major Owens, David Price and Patrick Kennedy, among others.
That so many supposedly progressive voices in the House of Representatives would take the word of Tom DeLay over that of Amnesty International is indicative of how little regard there is in Congress for the Nobel Peace Prize-winning organization.
Public opinion polls indicate that most Americans blame both sides for the violence, though the resolutions passed Thursday put the blame exclusively on the Palestinians. More strikingly, a Time/CNN poll revealed the 60 percent of Americans believe the United States should suspend some or all aid to Israel to force them to pull back from their offensive in the West Bank while only 1 percent believed U.S. aid should go up. Yet over 90 percent of the House of Representatives supports just such an increase in military aid.
Article link [alternet.org]
Posted by fromredbird at 11/20/2006 @ 11:26am
MASK,
I know lockbox sounds kind of corney, but in reality it would have been completely logical. Where are all the Social Security benefits going to come from when the baby boomers retire? And running up endless debt fighting useless and costly Middle East wars does not help the situation any. Yeah, Bush fooled quite a few people the first time around. I wonder what their excuse was in 2004?
No...just didn't trust Gore and his "lockbox". Surplus needed to be returned, that's why it's called a "surplus".
Bush pre-9/11 looked more "caretaker" than radical "I'm going to build a new worldist". If he had stuck with that, he'd probably be okay to today.
Posted by MASK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 11:27am
CRABWALK,
Politicians know their policies create chaos and conflict in the world. So in order to stay in office, they do everything in their power to keep the populace in a never ending state of fear and panic so the people will blindly support a failed policy of never ending war. A vicious circle that must be broken beginning with this 21st century Vietnam.............
------------------------------------------------------------------- Not only was it a gift for recruitment, but as RIO can undoubtedly attest with his fine attunement to Jihad sites, it fits in with Usamas plan. Get the US bogged down in a ME country, drain our treasury and get us to set aside our ideals. Mission accomplished. With the full support of a frightened populace.
Posted by CRABWALK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/20/2006 @ 11:30am
Frei, do you deny global warming?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 11:53am
He's more useful out there lurking, while also serving as our current enignma machine.
you'll have to explain that one.
my mom worked one of those while in the employ of Herrmann Goering
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 11:55am
Frei, I know that part. it was your allusion that was, shall we say, cryptic.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 12:02pm
"Rangle still wants to draft everyone since that worked out so well during the vietnam era."
Posted by RIO BRAVO 11/20/2006 @ 12:08am
Anyone who has more than talking points to spew would know that Rangel has not proposed a draft because he believes it would actually be reinstituted or even workable, but because he wants to illustrate the point that illegitimate military adventures such as the one in Iraq would be much harder to perpetrate if America's young could be pressed into service, particularly the offspring of our politicians, and the otherwise wealthy and powerful.
For me, the argument seems to fall apart when his focus on the children of the priveleged comes face-to-face with the reality that these kids seldom if ever have to see combat anyway, as witnessed in the military records (or lack thereof) of the great majority of the asswipes who got us into this mess.
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 12:34pm
"draft, or no draft, is there such a thing as a legitimate military adventure from where you sit?"
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 12:40am
"...illegitimate military adventures such as the one in Iraq would be much harder to perpetrate..."
Posted by DRHAMMER 11/20/2006 @ 12:34am
I am not such an old hippie that I can't conceive of justifiable military actions. Tragically, the invasion of Iraq does not qualify.
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 12:59pm
Posted by POSEIDON 11/20/2006 @ 11:27am
Wasn't that it wasn't logical...but that it wouldn't have been implemented. There would have been "emergency provisions" in it for more spending and it would have been tapped for every pork-barrel project that came along...thus rendering it useless.
Plus you couldn't trust that Gore wouldn't "suddenly discover" that he needed to spend the "lockbox money" on....health care, an "Apollo program for energy independence", etc., etc.....same as Bush and the GOP have done with the war and pork projects.
Interestingly, it has forced the Dems to become the deficit hawks and talk about "bloated spending"....now....do they live up to that?
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 1:13pm
the fact that almost all 9/11 perps were saudis bears more reflection. the reasons for that are the following.
Bin Laden is not interested in overthrowing or invading america. he wants to overthrow the Saudi monarchy. he is Saudi and he used the presence of the american troops left there after '91, as a casus belli to attack the US.Those troops are gone now, wisely removed after the attack by cut and run Bush.
the invasion of Iraq was a great big present for Osama, giving him more issues to recruit terrorist soldiers, and presenting him with a place to attack americans, without having to try to infiltrate them into the US. They're fighting us there so they don't have to fight us here.
Bush made and makes only a phony attempt to capture Bin Laden, difficult as that may be. He is far too valuable as the personification of the "enemy" in the world wide war on terra.
there are two competing world views here, incidentally. one is the world wide web, with its promise of world wide communication, commerce, and peace. the other is the world wide war on Terra, which promises endless war and bloodshed.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/20/2006 @ 10:51am
I agree whole-heartedly with your first 4 paragraphs. I disagree with the last one simply because of the way you juxtapose the two "world views." Are you implying that world communication and commerce have ceased taking place during this war? If so, where has the communication and commerce ceased?
Posted by urmygyro at 11/20/2006 @ 1:37pm
the "reason" we invaded afghanistan was retaliation for 9.11. in retrospect, there was no intelligent reason to do so: the 19 hijackers are dead. they got us. and we'll never be able to get them back. Posted by DARLADOON 11/19/2006 @ 11:03pm
No, dear. It has never been proven that any of the 'attackers' were the actual people on those planes. Do the research. Ask the questions. Your government came up with the names of the hijackers as if they already had the list prepared in advance - hmmmmm. No investigation needed. Some of the names and faces on that list have already proven to be alive and well, living in various countries around the world.
Only a withdrawal of all U.S. troops - within six months and with no preconditions - can break the paralysis that enfeebles our diplomacy. And the greatest obstacles to cutting and running are the psychological inhibitions of our leaders and the public.
We're not going to 'cut and run' because too many Bush/neocon/Saudi pillagers are making too much money building enormous permanent 'bases' and raking in the profits from 'rebuilding' the country. As soon as the lobbyists/Saudis/rest of MIC gets their hooks into the Democratic leadership (if it hasn't already) via 'contributions', all talk of withdrawal will fade into the background. Even if we were to pull 'visible' troops, we'll never pull out of those multi-billion dollar permanent 'bases'. Iraq will never be a sovereign country.
Posted by jlsolley at 11/20/2006 @ 1:51pm
the fact that almost all 9/11 perps were saudis bears more reflection. the reasons for that are the following.
Bin Laden is not interested in overthrowing or invading america. he wants to overthrow the Saudi monarchy. he is Saudi and he used the presence of the american troops left there after '91, as a casus belli to attack the US.Those troops are gone now, wisely removed after the attack by cut and run Bush.
the invasion of Iraq was a great big present for Osama, giving him more issues to recruit terrorist soldiers, and presenting him with a place to attack americans, without having to try to infiltrate them into the US. They're fighting us there so they don't have to fight us here.
Bush made and makes only a phony attempt to capture Bin Laden, difficult as that may be. He is far too valuable as the personification of the "enemy" in the world wide war on terra.
there are two competing world views here, incidentally. one is the world wide web, with its promise of world wide communication, commerce, and peace. the other is the world wide war on Terra, which promises endless war and bloodshed.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/20/2006 @ 10:51am
Sibel Edmonds (ex-CIA employee turned whistleblower) offers hints at why bin Laden hasn't been captured. He's part of Bush's 'family" that is protected at all costs. If the Saudi role is exposed, it will lead right back to Bush's role. I don't agree with her assumption that the planners of the attacks actually took part in them, but that's another matter entirely.
It has been established that two of the 9/11 hijackers had a support network in the U.S. that included agents of the Saudi government, and that the Bush administration and the FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship.
In his book, "Intelligence Matters," Senator Bob Graham made clear that some details of that financial support from Saudi Arabia were in the 27 pages of the congressional inquiry's final report that were blocked from release by the administration, despite the pleas of leaders of both parties in the House and Senate intelligence committees.
Here is an excerpt from Senator Graham's statement from the July 24, 2003 congressional record on the classified 27 pages of the Congressional Joint Inquiry into 9/11: "The most serious omission, in my view, is part 4 of the report, which is entitled Finding, Discussion and Narrative Regarding Certain Sensitive National Security Matters. Those 27 pages have almost been entirely censured [sic]….The declassified version of this finding tells the American people that our investigation developed information suggesting specific sources of foreign support for some of the September 11 hijackers while they were in the United States. In other words, officials of a foreign government are alleged to have aided and abetted the terrorist attacks on our country on September 11, which took over 3,000 lives."
In his book Graham reveals, "Our investigators found a CIA memo dated August 2, 2002, whose author concluded that there is incontrovertible evidence that there is support for these terrorists within the Saudi government. On September 11, America was not attacked by a nation-state, but we had just discovered that the attackers were actively supported by one, and that state was our supposed friend and ally Saudi Arabia." He then cites another case, "We had discovered an FBI asset who had a close relationship with two of the terrorists; a terrorist support network that went through the Saudi Embassy; and a funding network that went through the Saudi Royal family."
The most explosive revelation in Graham's book is the following statement with regard to the administration's attitude on page 216: "It was as if the President's loyalty lay more with Saudi Arabia than with America's safety." Further, he states that he asked the FBI to undertake a review of the Riggs Bank records on the terrorists' money trail, to look at other Saudi companies with ties to al-Qaeda, to plan for monitoring suspect Saudi interests in the United States; however, Graham adds: "To my knowledge, none of these investigations have been completed…Nor do we know anything else about what I believe to be a state-sponsored terrorist support network that still exists, largely undamaged, within the United States."
What Graham is trying to establish in his book and previous public statements in this regard, and doing so under state imposed ‘secrecy and classification', is that the classification and cover up of those 27 pages is not about protecting ‘U.S. national security, methods of intelligence collection, or ongoing investigations,' but to protect certain U.S. allies. Meaning, our government put the interests of certain foreign nations and their U.S. beneficiaries far above its own people and their interests. While Saudi Arabia has been specifically pointed to by Graham, other countries involved have yet to be identified.
In covering up Saudi Arabia's direct role in supporting Al Qaeda, the 9/11 Commission goes even a few steps further than the congress and the Executive Branch. The report claims "there is no convincing evidence that any government financially supported al-Qaeda before 9/11." Their report ignores all the information provided by government officials to Congress, as well as volumes of published reports and investigations by other nations, regarding Muslim and Arab regimes that have supported al Qaeda. It completely disregards the terrorist lists of the Treasury and State Departments, which have catalogued the Saudi government's decades of support for Bin Laden and al-Qaeda.
For the full essay - Sibel Edmonds [911truth.org]
Posted by jlsolley at 11/20/2006 @ 2:09pm
Posted by JLSOLLEY 11/20/2006 @ 1:51pm
Posted by JLSOLLEY 11/20/2006 @ 2:09pm
I (and others here, I'm sure), appreciate a post that implies some level of research, and not just talking points and partisan vitriole. If the content involves stuff the Government doesn't want us to hear, or that we don't want to hear ourselves, so much the better.
I will also be hugely disappointed if Mask doesn't award you an honorary Plunger Club Tinfoil Hat very soon.
Peace.
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 2:28pm
Too many leftists want to use the ruse of punishing the US economy for global warming to compromise the US with the goal of a new world order.
really? who?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 2:29pm
Posted by JLSOLLEY 11/20/2006 @ 2:09pm
JLSOLL...piece of advice. Two MAJOR 9/11 Conspiracy guys are already on EVERYBODY's "Ignore List" for posting 3000-5000 word cut & pastes from www.israelcontrolsyourmind.org, etc....
put down your opinions on the "inside job", if you must...but cut back on the cut & pastes....if you want remain in the discussion!
(BTW, your next move is to the "Stephen Jones jet fuel vs. steel girders theory" and "Mossad agents planting thermite in the WTC stairwells!")
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 2:30pm
I will also be hugely disappointed if Mask doesn't award you an honorary Plunger Club Tinfoil Hat very soon.
Peace.
Posted by DRHAMMER 11/20/2006 @ 2:28pm
Ask and you shall receive.....hehe
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 2:33pm
JLSOLLEY
You lucky dog!
It seems you also get a bonus copy of RULES FOR BLOGGERS by everyones favorite facially obscured argumentmeister.
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 2:46pm
(Hehe.)
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 2:47pm
Posted by DRHAMMER 11/20/2006 @ 2:46pm
Did I SAY it was a "rule", Doc?.....or just a "piece of advice"?
If JLSOLLEY wants to go down the RESE/PLUNGER route, that is certainly his free choice to make...just as it's the free choice of any here to Ignore him, if they don't WANT to see 5000 C&Ps from www.911donebyaliens.org....right?
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 3:02pm
the problem is with Rangel's logic. his claim that no Iraq would have taken place if we had a draft is spurious. history has not shown that. once the underlying assumption is wrong, the whole argument collapses. same with the war.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 3:07pm
Posted by MASK 11/20/2006 @ 3:02pm
You're absolutely right. You opened your post by referring to same as a "piece of advice". My response was an unnecessarily sarcastic exaggeration of your benevolent attempt to marginalize JLSOLLEY's posts.
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 3:13pm
(Hehe.)
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 3:13pm
They ought to begin the draft at the local golf course, Elk's Club, shooting range and NASCAR track.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 3:18pm
Posted by DRHAMMER 11/20/2006 @ 3:13pm
Again.......I was trying to "marginalize his post"?!?!?
I said "put down your opinions on the "inside job", if you must...but cut back on the cut & pastes". I WANT his opinions, even the conspiracy theories. I just didn't want to see posts that are 99% what he had "Edit-Ctrl-C"ed off of www.mossadistheantichrist.com....like I assume many other here, who Ignored RESE and PLUNGER didn't want to.
I'd like to see RESE and PLUNGER back to posting what THEY think and not what they are told to think by their nutty paranoid websites...but gave up on them a long time ago.
Again, JLSOLLEY is free.....I am free...you are free....everybody's free....to post or Ignore whatever they like.
Seems if some liberal (like, uh, you for instance) had given that friendly advice to JLSOL....no problem, huh? But because I DID and put a little joke about the "next step" to the fringey parts of the 9/11 conspiracy....I'm attacking???
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 3:42pm
the local golf course, Elk's Club, shooting range and NASCAR track.
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/20/2006 @ 3:18pm
It's a puzzler, isn't it? How does the Left get this "bad rep" about being "elitists who hate gun enthuisiasts or fans of NASCAR" and end up losing out people who "vote against their economic interests"?!?!???
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 3:43pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 11/20/2006 @ 12:08am:
We have nothing to fear but the "ship of fools" in control of congress for the next two years!
BREATHTAKING!!
Oh, the irony! Ship of Fools!! What has the last six years been other than a dreadnought captained by a buffoon, supported by a crew of knee-jerk clowns distinguished only by their appalling mendacity, barbarism, hypocrisy and disdain for the Consitution?
Fear has been their constant cry and now they have succumbed to their own propaganda. Of course they are quaking. The electorate, albeit not as many as would be desired, has finally seen through the lies, contradictions and dissembling, and the rats are abandoning the sinking ship but the shock troops, now that their masters are no longer giving clear parroting orders, do not know what to do, for independent thought and facing the truth of what has really happened is, well....frightening.
If the CPC can do half of what it intends, it will be miraculous. But it is better they start with high purpose and much drive rather than succumb to the element of their party that would be Republican light. Alas, while the CPC may be the largest single caucus, I believe the Blue Dog and DLC Dems together outnumber them. But there is cause for hope since the CPC members having as many chairs of committees and subcommittees as they do, and, of course, Speaker Pelosi, gives an advantage beyond simple numbers.
Posted by Tiresias at 11/20/2006 @ 3:48pm
MASK,
The way I look at it, the bulk of the boobs you might gather up at the aforementioned locations are of no great loss to the hoi polloi. If you're a dumb redneck who isn't smart enough to know McDonalds and Budweiser will make you a fatass and eventually kill you in the right dose, or are someone who considers watching cars race around a track a worthy pastime, you are disposable. If you're arrogant enough to talks solutions to the Mid-East problem on the golf course or at your local Elk's Club, then you should be leading a platoon to victory through the streets of Baghdad then on to the welcome home parades in the US. Americans are so good at talking the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, they suddenly haven't any feet...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 4:09pm
Some form of national service after high school could be beneficial for the nation. Whether that service is military or not, should be the choice of the conscript. There is a lesson from Germany that is salutary. Several years ago that country was considering going to an all-volunteer military but research showed they could not do it for a rather surprising reason: their social services would collapse. Large numbers of conscripts opted out of the military and served their (now) nine months in nursing homes, facilities for the handicapped, mentoring underprivileged children, teaching the retarded, etc. and their loss would create a crushing budgetary and manpower problem. Upon investigation it was found that the youth who participated came out significantly more sensitive to social problems, more considerate of the problems of others, and with a greater sense of obligation to community than they had before entering the programs. It was also found that the program mixed classes in such a way that the participants had greater respect for all members of society. A significant number of the conscripts stayed working at their posts even after their service obligation ended. The conclusion was that conscription actually contributed to a more sane political atmosphere. Alas, apparently the children of the largely Turkish Gastarbeiters are not subject to national service.
Many youth need some kind of focusing experience before they enter college. It could save their time and money by having such an experience. And such a program may serve society well also. Naturally, service in the military would remain an option.
Posted by Tiresias at 11/20/2006 @ 4:11pm
Jrolf / Chimi,
Rangel is being too radical in his quest for a debate about a draft (and I think his aim is to have a debate on the subject rather than actually have a draft).
But frankly, either way, it is too radical and wouldn't achieve the objective.
The objective should be to generate accountability for vanity wars by instituing fiscal requirements. The country club set would NOT have us in Iraq today if they were footing the bill. Since Bushco has pushed the bill onto future generations (via unprecedented drunken sailor deficit spending) Harlan and Jeeves have a 1:15PM tee time tomorrow.
Super, huh, old boys?
Posted by freedomplease at 11/20/2006 @ 4:13pm
Tiresias, you go. serve whomever you like. it's true most youths could use a focusing experience. what they don't need is a COERCIVE experience. I know all about the German model. those kids have one thing we don't have. they can be secure in the knowledge their nation will not waste their lives in Iraq.( I oppose NATO participation in whatever it is they are doing in Afghanistan.)
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 4:21pm
Frei, this is all your fixation,world gov't bla, bla bla, not even here is that a topic. pure paranoia on your part.
you don't believe in man caused global warming?
"Every person who believes the US is the greatest terrorist entity on earth."
Bush is making a good case for this in Iraq.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 4:24pm
Freiheit,
I thought you looked at things from a cost / benetit viewpoint.
If so, why is Kyoto such a bad idea?
I'm already seeing the Europeans and Japanese make significant strides in smoke stack industrial pollution limitation (new technologies) in at least a couple of industries that the USA manufacturers are not bothering with. In other words, in the world of "survival of the fittest", the American's are getting fat and lazy due to the protection of the US government while their competitors are getting lean and mean.
You think this is good for us?
Are you Japanese?
Posted by freedomplease at 11/20/2006 @ 4:26pm
One other thing that might step in the way of the "Full Steam Ahead"....the Dem Senate...and....
her [msnbc.msn.com]
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 4:26pm
"...you are disposable. If you're arrogant enough to talks solutions to the Mid-East problem on the golf course or at your local Elk's Club..."
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/20/2006 @ 4:09pm
There's a fascinating bit of hypocrisy.....he thinks certain parts of the electorate or "hoi polloi" (look it up) are "disposable"...
then discussing how OTHERS are "arrogant"!
Again, maybe there's nothing "the matter with Kansas" (Thomas Frank)...maybe there's something wrong with the people who consider Kansas (or people and places like it) "disposable"?!??!
Posted by Mask at 11/20/2006 @ 4:30pm
It's ok. Mask has been trying to marginalize my (and anyone else's) posts regarding the truth about 9/11/2001 and the subsequent lies and cover-ups for quite some time. I've gone so far as to suggest that he's an admin. plant. The greatest fear that the admin. has is that the truth be uncovered, and they will go to any lengths to suppress efforts to that end. Mask can feel free to put me on his 'ignore' list. He's unreachable and not a member of my target audience. Those that have a desire to learn and a hunger for the truth might appreciate the level of detail provided. I don't normally c&p like that, but thought that it was significant enough to warrant a special exception.
I don't appreciate reading blogs that consist of unsubstantiated opinion and or schoolyard name-calling, and have decided that I will not offer up such drivel. It simply serves to obfuscate the discussion and frustrate the reader. I certainly don't mind reading enlightening passages written in a humorous vein, but don't appreciate wasting my time reading sarcasm written for sarcasm's sake.
My apologies to anyone that had to scroll past my post, and hope that someone that actually read them found items of interest and cause for further excavation.
Posted by jlsolley at 11/20/2006 @ 4:45pm
my mom worked one of those while in the employ of Herrmann Goering
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/20/2006 @ 11:55am
What were you doing? Emptying his bedpan?
Posted by fromredbird at 11/20/2006 @ 4:54pm
MASK,
I make no attempt to hide my disgust for many people, whether in the north or south. I'm not sure how you see me being arrogant, for I'm just speaking my mind and denouncing the grown babies roistering around your republic, whether as unsophisticated grunts or cocksure cowards. El americano seems to have the answer to every question on earth, and always insists on implementing his grand solutions in the name of righting wrongs and defending the virtue until death. But when it comes to arrogance, it is you as a nation that stands smack dab in the limelight, only your little show and tell endeavor has gone seriously awry, as the world wants both the show and the telling to end already.
You're the same burros who will stand on a soapbox and criticize a country like Colombia for producing coca, declaring war on the vicious plant and the drug it can be manufactured into, all while you somehow let thousands of tons of rush into your sanctuary so the "hoi polloi" can go to town on a Friday night. And we all know cocaine is a white collar drug, especially at around $60/oz nowadays. Bottom line, just like a burro you have a thick skull, almost impenetrable by reason and reality, hence you not only fail to create the heaven on earth you all preach, but are unable to see the idiocy of your actions, preventing you from ever learning a damned thing.
Like your comrades here, until you put actions behind your words you're just another cheerleader with too much time on your hands. Of course, it's so much easier to fight with your mouth than with your hands, isn't it?
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 4:56pm
Barbara Lee is foolish and a wide adoption of her views and policies (increased wage and price controls, nationalization of industries, greater government involvement in our lives) would bankrupt the US and make the world a much more dangerous place. He economic policies would create shortages, higher prices and hardships. Hence my statement. No fear, just fact.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 11:46am
Could you point out where Barbara Lee has advocated wage and price controls or nationalization of industries? I don't recall ever hearing her advocate a national program of wage and price controls or nationalization of industries.
If you're concerned about greater government involvement in our lives it seems to me you should have a much greter concern with the Republican Party. Barbara Lee has never advocated a government surveillance program to keep track of what we read at the library, nor attempted to regulate and criminalize consensual sex between two adults in the privacy of their bedroom, nor has she ever advocated scrubbing the right of habeas corpus. The Republicans are guilty of all these and much, much more.
No fear, just fact? First things first. Where are the facts?
Posted by fromredbird at 11/20/2006 @ 5:14pm
And we all know cocaine is a white collar drug, especially at around $60/oz nowadays.
where you live Chimi? surely not.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 5:16pm
if coke was $60 an OUNCE, beggars would be snorting on street corners.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 5:17pm
JR,
I'm going by the prices I last heard in Central Jersey. Granted, you can go to Spanish Harlem and do about $40, or down to Allegheny St. in Philly and do about the same. Either way, it's more expensive than beer, weed, crack or meth... Here in Medellín - 10.000 pesos or about $4 will get you 3 oz...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 5:21pm
JR,
Duh. I meant gram. My bad.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 5:21pm
Chimi, I'll cancel that flight, qel domage
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 5:24pm
FREI,
Why not refer to you as a group. Surely you understand I'm generalizing, though I can cough up plenty of examples to back up my generalizations. Last time I checked, it was you guys who insisted on monopolizing the term "American", despite the entire hemisphere being part of the Americas. What should I refer to you all then, Big Guy? How about gringos? Is that better?
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 5:24pm
JR,
I know the supply is ever-growing making prices pretty steady up there, but $60/oz would indeed bring on one hell of a snowstorm...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 5:26pm
FREI,
Of course, you guys are innocent of lumping people into groups. I mean, it's not like the world is with you or against you or anything...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/20/2006 @ 5:31pm
"She advocates both minimum wage controls"
considering that those have been the law for over 70 years, I would surmise she is not the only one. your idee fixe is showing Frei. do stop trying to shovel everything into the same ditch.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 5:52pm
That's why we have such an immigration problem
you're kidding yourself. they're not coming for freedom anymore. the young Irish immigrants are going back. our immigration problem is from Mexico and states south.
maybe they were just too polite to tell you what they thought of America.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 5:54pm
FROMREDBIRD, Simple, check out her own Website. She advocates both minimum wage controls and pushes for both housing and energy price controls.
Do you think she isn't for controlling (nationalizing) oil companies? She is certainly a proponent of a windfall profits tax? Isn't she? I'd also point to her defense and support of Chavez...
But don't assume I don't have facts about Barbara Lee. I do.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 5:43pm
Check out her website? I did. That's why I knew you DIDN'T have facts. Minimum wage and anti-monopoly in the oil industry is what you call wage and price controls and nationalization of industries? That's a pittance compared to Nixon's wage and price controls. It seems to me that you've completely lost your perspective.
I suggest that everyone actually do go look at Barbara Lee's website [tinyurl.com] to see what exactly it is that fills FREIHEIT with fear and trembling.
Posted by fromredbird at 11/20/2006 @ 5:57pm
it must be a constant source of disappointment to you Frei, that you weren't born into the gilded age.in our time your ideas and ideals are an anacronism. the progressives have long won.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 6:09pm
My experience is more of the world is pro-US than anti-US.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 5:49pm
Not for long if Cheney and the rest of the repub desparate neocans have their way:
Bomb Iran
Diplomacy is doing nothing to stop the Iranian nuclear threat; a show of force is the only answer.
By Joshua Muravchik, JOSHUA MURAVCHIK is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. November 19, 2006
WE MUST bomb Iran.
It has been four years since that country's secret nuclear program was brought to light, and the path of diplomacy and sanctions has led nowhere.
VVVVVVVVVVVVV
If Ahmadinejad gets his finger on a nuclear trigger, everything Bush has done will be rendered hollow. We will be a lot less safe than we were when Bush took office.
Finally, wouldn't such a U.S. air attack on Iran inflame global anti-Americanism? Wouldn't Iran retaliate in Iraq or by terrorism? Yes, probably. That is the price we would pay. But the alternative is worse.
After the Bolshevik takeover of Russia in 1917, a single member of Britain's Cabinet, Winston Churchill, appealed for robust military intervention to crush the new regime. His colleagues weighed the costs -- the loss of soldiers, international derision, revenge by Lenin -- and rejected the idea.
The costs were avoided, and instead the world was subjected to the greatest man-made calamities ever. Communism itself was to claim perhaps 100 million lives, and it also gave rise to fascism and Nazism, leading to World War II. Ahmadinejad wants to be the new Lenin. Force is the only thing that can stop him.
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-muravchik 19nov19,0,1681154.story?coll=la-opinion-center
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/20/2006 @ 6:53pm
Smaller government, less taxation, truly free markets, abolition of the federal reserve? These are an anacronism? If they are, then you must be right.
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 6:20pm | ignore this person
no one is talking about those things. except you. doesn't that tell you something?
and the first thing you mentioned in attacking her was the minimum wage. that train left a long long time ago, except for you.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 7:11pm
Chimi,
From what I've read of your posts, I think we're probably not that far apart politically.
And I'm sure that your lack of appreciation for our grassroots motorsports won't lead to to making gross generalizations about other groups of people who share interests to which you can't relate, but none the less, just this once,
(Fuck you).
A left-leaning, left-turn-only race fan
Posted by drhammer at 11/20/2006 @ 8:03pm
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 7:40pm
Look weakening our resources in Iraq is bad enough but if Iran or another 10 nations get the bomb it changes little in our security as we can still and for the foreseeable future, decimate any country that uses a nuke for an attack on us or our allies. We know it, they it. Attacking Iran for persuing making a nuke in 10 years and being able to actually deliver it, is cover for all the shit the hsuB has already done they don't want investigated. Their hope is to make so much shit come at us as a nation per creating world hate at us, we have to ban together to survive. Crazy neocans, don't they know we'd rather through them to the wolves as we see underneath their garb that they're pigs, became the fodder and we'd rather live with humans...
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/20/2006 @ 9:07pm
KO/Countdown just nailed hsuB's ass to Vietnamized Iraq.
We won the cold war by leaving Vietnam and we'll win the war on terror by leaving Iraq and growing stronger; not letting the hsuB/repub neocans make America weaker.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/20/2006 @ 9:09pm
Nope, only fear and trembling on my radar would be over US bombing Iran and N Korea. Am I alone in that?
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/20/2006 @ 6:05pm
Absolutely not - possibly the greatest blunder the U.S. has yet to make.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/20/2006 @ 9:17pm
the fact of the minimum wage legislation is NOT in the news. everyone else has accepted its existence, except you. that it hasn't been raised, a rip off of colossal proportion of the weakest workers, is in the news. that is the difference.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/20/2006 @ 9:23pm
A left-leaning, left-turn-only race fan
Posted by DRHAMMER 11/20/2006 @ 8:03pm
Hammer -
"Left-turn only race fan" That's funny.
Doc, I know that you and I aren't that far apart politically, and I actually dig the hell out of your posts and find you pretty sharp, but I work with a "typical Nascar fan" every day, and I think she's a stone-cold redneck idiot. She carries a Nascar lunch container and she is an idiot, and I often think "two plus two equals four".
You have (unfortunately) been saddled with a stereotype that you don't fit - but surely you understand that many "typical Nascar fans" do.
;)
Posted by New Dawn at 11/20/2006 @ 9:27pm
So, expect "Them" to nuke Iran before January. Imagine hundreds,if not thouusans of Bunker Buster Nukes,like so many Chernobyls, dilling a radioactive rape of the Earth. NEVER has there been such evil. "They" might even do it on Thanksgiving or Christmas Day.
Posted by bonnaire at 11/20/2006 @ 9:28pm
Wow, war, corruption, world events out the wazoo and 4 news stations dedicated to what's the top news the public need to hear and they're all about OJ Simpson! MSM is pitiful.
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/20/2006 @ 10:37pm
Wow, war, corruption, world events out the wazoo and 4 news stations dedicated to what's the top news the public need to hear and they're all about OJ Simpson! MSM is pitiful.
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 11/20/2006 @ 10:37pm
Yet you won't stop watching it and won't stop complaining about it.
What do they say is the defintion of insantiy? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result?
Posted by urmygyro at 11/21/2006 @ 02:06am
Who is that Mask person? A plant?
Posted by boing007 at 11/21/2006 @ 07:35am
Posted by BOING007 11/21/2006 @ 07:35am
Plant?....by whom?
Oh, let me guess....I'm a "Republican paid operative"? Yep, heard it before. Interesting theory given the guys who REALLY hurt the Democrats, like the "purists" like ALANSMITHEE and ZERO, are NEVER accused of that!
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 08:29am
Posted by BONNAIRE 11/20/2006 @ 9:28pm
Scott Ritter been predicting things like this too.
He said in February 2005 that we WOULD invade Iran.....in JUNE 2005!
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 08:31am
"they harm many more of the people who most need a chance to enter the job ladder."
a myth, Frei, a myth. you have never offered any proof of this.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 08:40am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/20/2006 @ 4:21pm
Tiresias, you go. serve whomever you like. it's true most youths could use a focusing experience. what they don't need is a COERCIVE experience. I know all about the German model. those kids have one thing we don't have. they can be secure in the knowledge their nation will not waste their lives in Iraq.( I oppose NATO participation in whatever it is they are doing in Afghanistan.) __________ __________ __________ __________ __________ __________
I see nothing wrong with requiring those who have lived and profited early in their life from a society to contribute to it in some direct, not necessarily military, way. There are chapter and verse arguments that can be made about a citizen's obligations to their society, but, of course, those who do not recognize such will view any required service as coercion. Would it have been possible to oppose the Axis during WWII with your non-coercive approach to service to the state? The history of the time would indicate not. I reiterate that I would in no way require conscripts to take a military path; the military would still be a volunteer force. It's a nice try with your parenthetical about Afghanistan to obfuscate your incorrect assertion in the previous sentence, but at least 18 German troops have been killed (wasted)in Afghanistan and there is now serious consideration of putting them in greater harm's way by stationing them in the south. Further, the Bundestag is considering a bill to design the Bundeswehr for just such further actions. In any event, the German troops are essentially volunteers since none who are conscripted are forced to serve in the military.
Posted by Tiresias at 11/21/2006 @ 09:40am
"Would it have been possible to oppose the Axis during WWII with your non-coercive approach to service to the state?"
certainly not. you do remember however that this was a time of very small standing army, as after WW1 the troops were largely disbanded. in other words the draft was only because of a national emergency. no thought was given to national service apart from this emergency. we live in a different time now. the republic is not under a comparable threat.
you are of course correct about Germany. my example was poorly chosen.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 10:03am
Mask, I suspect you're a plant that's been placed here primarily to discredit anyone that suggests that the administration was complicit in the 9/11 attacks. Your responses to even remote suggestions in that vein are particularly non-responsive in terms of factual debate, and filled with vitriol and diversionary slanders. You've never admitted to even examining the evidence, reading the 9/11 Commission Report or the errors and omissions that have been cited regarding it (all of which defy credulity for a competent body that was, purportedly, conducting a good faith investigation of the worst disaster in modern U.S. history).
Posted by jlsolley at 11/21/2006 @ 11:15am
MASK,
Well, that has been the hallmark of both partues. Spend until you drop. I agree with you it remains to be seen if a Democratic Congress will control spending. But the Iraq war will not help in controlling spending. We are already at the half trillion mark and counting.
------------------------------------------------------------------- Wasn't that it wasn't logical...but that it wouldn't have been implemented. There would have been "emergency provisions" in it for more spending and it would have been tapped for every pork-barrel project that came along...thus rendering it useless.
Plus you couldn't trust that Gore wouldn't "suddenly discover" that he needed to spend the "lockbox money" on....health care, an "Apollo program for energy independence", etc., etc.....same as Bush and the GOP have done with the war and pork projects.
Interestingly, it has forced the Dems to become the deficit hawks and talk about "bloated spending"....now....do they live up to that?
Posted by MASK
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/21/2006 @ 11:20am
JLSOLLEY,
WHAT IS NOT CONSPIRACY THEORY:
I can't speak as to who the support network was while they were here in the United States, although it is clear that they had wealthy benefactors. What is clear and factual is that two of the Sept 11 hijackers were listed in the San Diego telephone book long before the Sept 11 attacks took place. Surely if the FBI was really looking for these people they could have been found........
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/21/2006 @ 11:23am
CHIMICHENGA,
I like this post. I think you could have saved this one for Rio Bravo and FREIHEIT. MASK seems kind of moderate and not radical like those other two.
------------------------------------------------------------------- MASK,
I make no attempt to hide my disgust for many people, whether in the north or south. I'm not sure how you see me being arrogant, for I'm just speaking my mind and denouncing the grown babies roistering around your republic, whether as unsophisticated grunts or cocksure cowards. El americano seems to have the answer to every question on earth, and always insists on implementing his grand solutions in the name of righting wrongs and defending the virtue until death. But when it comes to arrogance, it is you as a nation that stands smack dab in the limelight, only your little show and tell endeavor has gone seriously awry, as the world wants both the show and the telling to end already.
You're the same burros who will stand on a soapbox and criticize a country like Colombia for producing coca, declaring war on the vicious plant and the drug it can be manufactured into, all while you somehow let thousands of tons of rush into your sanctuary so the "hoi polloi" can go to town on a Friday night. And we all know cocaine is a white collar drug, especially at around $60/oz nowadays. Bottom line, just like a burro you have a thick skull, almost impenetrable by reason and reality, hence you not only fail to create the heaven on earth you all preach, but are unable to see the idiocy of your actions, preventing you from ever learning a damned thing.
Like your comrades here, until you put actions behind your words you're just another cheerleader with too much time on your hands. Of course, it's so much easier to fight with your mouth than with your hands, isn't it?
Posted by CHIMICHENGA
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/21/2006 @ 11:29am
Freiheit a radical? hahahahah
his warmed over talking points may be a minor annoyance but radical, hell no. he certainly does not deserve to be lumped in with Rio Looney
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:32am
NEW DAWN,
If Bush does the unthinkable and launches airstrikes against Iran and/or North Korea without provocation,(and no developing nuclear weapons alone is not provocation) then you had better get ready to check out because the rapture will be arriving shortly thereafter.
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/21/2006 @ 11:32am
JOHANNESROLF,
A minor annoyance? More annoying than that!
Posted by POSEIDON at 11/21/2006 @ 11:35am
tastes vary.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:40am
the rapture business is a pipe dream of religious loons, and not worth a second thought.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:41am
Frei, ya like the way I sprang to your defense? like a left handed compliment.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:50am
Frei, right on the drug war, which is really a war against people. I would go further than the pot prohibition, empty the jails of ALL non violent drug offenders, coke, smack, crank, acid whatever.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:52am
POSEIDON,
I agree - 2 of the SUPPOSED hijackers were in the phone directory. It's not been proven that those men were on the planes or, if they were, that they were the hijackers and pilots. A more important question would be: How were the FBI and CIA able to: release their names and visit the homes, flight schools where they trained and restaurants where they ate - within hours of the attacks? It's as if they had their names vital data prepared in advance. Additionally, the govt. claims that hijacker passports were found in the debris blocks from the WTC. Miraculous coincidence? Please. But these are mere sidenotes among the volumes of questions for the 9/11 Commission regarding their pathetic tome.
Posted by jlsolley at 11/21/2006 @ 11:53am
and why shouldn't coke be $60 an ounce, as Chimi mistakenly suggested? it would make the Colombians happy AND it would make the Americans happy. win-win
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 11:58am
I was worried that no one else would defend you, Frei. maybe given more time....
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 12:01pm
I did say MAY be a minor annoyance, Frei, implying maybe not.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 12:03pm
How sweet - I return to find the blow debate continuing to summon forth some straggling comments. FREI is right in that it is a demand-driven business, so that the supply will recede once the demand diminishes. It's odd too, as drug use is highly frowned upon here, though plenty of people smoke weed, but cocaine, or perico, is not tolerated, though it's not hard to find if one were so inclined. But in a place like Medellín, there is a zona de tolerancia in the old center, where drugs and sex are sold and purchased freely (but the latter is risky, as there is a plethora of wacked-out trannies roaming the area), but in other parts you either have to find someone in a disco or ask a cabbie to go into the hood in order to buy for you. Any cop seeing a taxista carrying a foreigner into the known drug barrios will bust both buyer and driver, and you surely don't want to end up in trouble with the cops here.
Drugs in most cities are pretty controlled, and although the penalties for small possession are next to nothing (afterall, it is Colombia), there isn't a drug problem like I've seen in the US. Of course, people need plenty of other things here besides a nice high, but most people here will tell you cocaine is an export product, like coffee. Neither are very profitable here, but thanks to foreign consumption, both are cultivated and traded wherever conditions allow.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 12:14pm
Frei, the offer of a free book, that musta hurt.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 12:17pm
Ms. Waters' efforts will be in vain, I wrote an article in my blog to this effect entitled: 'Progressive Maxine Waters And Her 'Out Of Iraq Caucus' Won't Be Strong Enough To Stop The Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel War Machine'
A Deborah she a'int
Congressional Progressive, Maxine Waters, Chair and Co-Founder, Out Of Iraq Caucus, simply lacks the gbuwrah, that is strength and mastery, needed to combat Steny Hoyer's and Rahm Emanuel's political machinery for ongoing war in Iraq and soon coming war upon Iran.
Her efforts are going to 'words blowing in the wind'; her time and efforts would be better spent on something like Medicare Prescription Reform where there is at least some chance of legislative victory.
Posted by JanAllen at 11/21/2006 @ 12:19pm
NEW DAWN,
If Bush does the unthinkable and launches airstrikes against Iran and/or North Korea without provocation,(and no developing nuclear weapons alone is not provocation) then you had better get ready to check out because the rapture will be arriving shortly thereafter.
Posted by POSEIDON 11/21/2006 @ 11:32am
The rapture is pure fiction, but I get your point.
Just a couple of my thoughts to spark further discussion - I am no expert and don't claim to speak gospel on this.
I'm not convinced that Ahmedinijad - or even Jong-Il, for that matter - has no sense of self-preservation, and I don't think either of them is a "rapturist". I think both also realize that they cannot win in any sort of explosive exchange with the U.S., conventional or otherwise.
The concern is, and has been, for what they might do to their neighbors far more than what they could do to the U.S.
The ensuing chaos that would come from any attack on Iran or NK by us would also be because of the neighbors being brought into the conflict... What do our allies (and theirs) do if "war" breaks out in either of those two countries?
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 12:27pm
NEW DAWN,
Couldn't agree more. The US seems to think (or at least make it appear that they think) most leaders out there are completely nuts and willing to enter into an assured annihilation by threatening the existence of the US and its citizens. That the US believed little Nicaragua, El Salvador, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, Chile and plenty of others were threats or lead by men eager to bring their country to its knees if not its grave is ridiculous, but the same holds true for the remaining members of that notorious axis out there. Both leaders are just as full of bluster as Bush and Cheney and only playing the same dumb game as the US, trying to capture some eyes on the world stage and flex some muscle, whether real or imagined. It's like George Carlin said - foreign policy consists of claiming and proving who has a bigger verga.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 12:37pm
New Dawn,
There is a secondary consideration which is that Kim Jong Il or Amedinijiad will funnel material to known anti-American terrorist organizations. Of course, both leaders know that any such action will result in their country's immediate destruction if known by the CIA, but both leaders are potentially nihlistic enough to underestimate US intelligence on these matters and do it anyway.
The fact that Valerie Plame (a WMD poliferation operative) was outed hurts the USA's position in terms of projected immpecable intelligence, but it pales in comparison to the fact that we completely screwed up the intelligence on Iraq.
The Iraq thing is why I've been droning on and on for years about Phase II (The Senate Intelligence Committee's multi-year delayed investigation into how the CIA info was spun to achieve a predetermined goal of premptively attacking Iraq). Until Phase II is done, Bush gets away with mass murder AND the USA is less safe as none of our enemies thinks our $40B+/year intelligence agency knows squat.
Posted by freedomplease at 11/21/2006 @ 12:40pm
It's like George Carlin said - foreign policy consists of claiming and proving who has a bigger verga.
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 12:37am
Yep - and Denis Leary put it this way:
"You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadillac Eldorado convertible -- hot pink with whaleskin hubcaps and all-leather cow interior and big brown baby seal eyes for the headlights.
I'm gonna drive around in that baby at 115 mph, getting one mile per gallon, sucking down Quarter Pounder cheeseburgers from McDonald's in the old-fashioned nonbiodegradable Styrofoam containers. When I'm done suckin' down those greaseball burgers, I'm gonna toss the Styrofoam container right out the side and there ain't a goddamned thing anybody can do about it.
You know why?
Because we got the bombs, that's why. Two words: nuclear fuckin' weapons, okay?
Russia, Czechoslovakia, Romania -- they can have all the democracy they want. They can have a big democracy cakewalk right through the middle of Tiananmen Square and it won't make a lick of difference because we've got the bombs, okay?"
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 12:46pm
"There is a secondary consideration which is that Kim Jong Il or Amedinijiad will funnel material to known anti-American terrorist organizations."
Freedom -
I see the danger of this, as well, but still think that it is unlikely - for me, the metaphor would be like loaning my registered gun (nuclear device) to the local crack junkie, knowing full well that he was going to kill my neighbor with it.
Since it wouldn't be too tough to trace the weapon back to me, I'd still be in quite a bit of deep shit when the law showed up at my house seeking accountability...
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 12:50pm
Who's to say Iran and NK aren't just playing the game Nixon and Kissinger played back in the day, hoping the world would see the US as a bit nuts and therfore fearing them more and taking even their most outrageous claims to be serious. Does not the world prove that fear keeps people in line, is an efficient motivator and a great mechanism to maintain the status quo?
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 12:56pm
New Dawn,
Agreed in priciple, but if you're running a country and you've got a shitty intel service and don't know anything about any of your enemies then you start to think it's the norm. You start to think that the CIA knows nothing about you. You might even start to think that so long as the weapon was just a "dirty bomb" (not highly enriched) and so long as it wasn't delivered using your missle technology that perhaps the CIA will never definitively know where the hell it came from (and if you're Pakistan you're even more convinced of this since you figure that in the case of doubt the USA will either elect to destroy Iran or N.Korea but not Pakistan).
Posted by freedomplease at 11/21/2006 @ 1:12pm
New Dawn,
Agreed in priciple, but if you're running a country and you've got a shitty intel service and don't know anything about any of your enemies then you start to think it's the norm. You start to think that the CIA knows nothing about you. You might even start to think that so long as the weapon was just a "dirty bomb" (not highly enriched) and so long as it wasn't delivered using your missle technology that perhaps the CIA will never definitively know where the hell it came from (and if you're Pakistan you're even more convinced of this since you figure that in the case of doubt the USA will either elect to destroy Iran or N.Korea but not Pakistan).
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 11/21/2006 @ 1:12pm
Gee, thanks for scaring the crap out of me.
;)
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:18pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 12:56am
Hurry up and send me a plane ticket, Chimi - I need a vacation with plenty of good booze, sunshine, and round, brown hotties.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:20pm
the Iran guy is full of hot air, designed mainly for domestic consumption. he has zero means of achieving any of it. Hitler would have been just some German crank with a book if he hadn't had the might of one of the world's great industrial and military powers behind him.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 1:31pm
New Dawn,
Sounds like you'd like to go carousing through Cali. Plenty of sun, rum and rumba (fiesta). And of course, las caleñas love gringos since very few foreigners dare tread there. But that's fine with me - leaves the odds in my favor...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 1:33pm
I expect to be vilified and excoriated for saying so, but Ahmedinijad, when I've seen him speak in person, seems pretty sharp - I've heard about, second-hand, his being a wackjob and a complete nut, but haven't seen it personally.
And I don't think he wants to die or be deposed any time soon, which he could easily achieve by attacking an American interest...
Believe me, I don't dispute that he is dangerous, but more in a rhetorical, encouraging-others-to-do-wrongs sort of way than as an actual physical threat to me and mine.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:36pm
New Dawn,
Sounds like you'd like to go carousing through Cali. Plenty of sun, rum and rumba (fiesta). And of course, las caleñas love gringos since very few foreigners dare tread there. But that's fine with me - leaves the odds in my favor...
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 1:33pm
- insert longing sigh here -
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:36pm
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/21/2006 @ 1:41pm | ignore this person
is that one of those silences that speaks volumes?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 1:43pm
Nodding silent agreement in endorsement of sun, rum, rumba, and las caleñas.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:46pm
http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/rumba.htm
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 1:48pm
Can't speak for anyone else, but I was endorsing the 'fiesta' meaning...
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:50pm
LOL at Frei...
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 1:51pm
Oh, let me guess....I'm a "Republican paid operative"? Yep, heard it before. Interesting theory given the guys who REALLY hurt the Democrats, like the "purists" like ALANSMITHEE and ZERO, are NEVER accused of that!
Posted by MASK 11/21/2006 @ 08:29am
Don't flatter yourself, MASK, you've never been known to hurt the Democrats. All I've seen you do is fail to adequately bury your frustration at failure after spending months and months posting silly things like, "Democrat X said this but Democrat Y said this. What's going on here, a major civil war inside the Deomcratic Party that will insure Republican rule for the rest of the century?" The fact that the issue X and Y were commenting on is secondary or tertiary to most Democrats, or anyone else, never seems to register with you.
It's also curious that you call Alan Smithee a Democrat when he has never indicated much more than disdain for the Democrats and you also call yourself a Democrat when you have never indicated much more than disdain for the Democrats for opposite reasons. What a tangled web.
I'll check you out the next time I reboot. Time to sign-in and put you back on the ignore list.
Posted by fromredbird at 11/21/2006 @ 1:52pm
Frei you're plenty smart, using a mac for instance. I have three and will soon add number four. I used to think I would be the last person to need a computer, what with cameras and all, but NOOO. we have two Apple stores here in Gotham and are part of a pro care plan, which gets us one free mac lesson a week, should we wish. Jen doesn't get there every week but it has come in very handy.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 1:55pm
Though a type of music, in Colombia rumba is used more to describe the party, the verb being "rumbear". That's the problem with Spanish - it's plenty difficult when words like "coger" (to grab) can mean just that in one place, then cross a border and suddenly it means to screw. There are even many differences region to region within a country. However, Colombia is known for speaking the best Spanish in the Americas, and I'd say here in Medellín they speak with the most beautiful accent, pronouncing the ll as "j", making Medellín sound as "Me-de-jeen" or "Me-de-zheen". But I'd also say the Argentinian accent is quite nice, too. And getting back to the muchachas, there's something to be said about having a woman such as a paisa, or one from Medellín and the Antioquia region, speak to you with that beautiful accent and say things like "hola papi" while using words like divine and delicious every other sentence. Then throw in the abundance of siliconas here, as Medellín is quite famous for its talented surgeons, and you have quite a sight, as the city is bulging with real-life barbie dolls...
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 2:01pm
California has its share of pre-ordered boobs and beautiful women... but yer killing me, Chimi.
;)
I saw a comedian recently who said:
"Which would you rather hear - "Yes, yes, daddy!", or "Aye, aye, papi!"
hee he hee
Enough outta me on this one - I'm heading into rampant sexist pig territory, and we do have ladies who post here...
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 2:10pm
Time to sign-in and put you back on the ignore list.
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 11/21/2006 @ 1:52pm
ROFLMAO....for HOW long? 20 minutes? Liar!
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 2:12pm
Posted by POSEIDON 11/21/2006 @ 11:20am
Problem for all those "deficit hawk Dems" (if such a thing exists)....the numbers don't add up.
Iraq has been "off the books"...even after "gradual but substanial" pull-out (to quote "President-elect" Obama)...we're still in deficits, big ones.
The Dems have promised "no new taxes", just "repeals of the tax cuts for the top 1%'ers". Sounds fine...except...they've ALSO promised vast new spending on domestic programs, can't promise any defense cuts "in a time of war" (politically), and being Democrats, they SURE as hell can't do any spending cuts.
So....what happens?....I'm not sure. My bet is they shave off a measly couple dozen billion off the deficit (still leaving it in the mid-to-high 200 Billions), claim "we're on the way to balancing it, but it MIGHT take a little time", and run on that.
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 2:18pm
MASK,
How long until you just flat-out blame the Dems for inflating the budget to what it sits at today? I imagine right before you start blaming the loss in Iraq on them, too.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 2:22pm
So....what happens?....I'm not sure. My bet is they shave off a measly couple dozen billion off the deficit (still leaving it in the mid-to-high 200 Billions), claim "we're on the way to balancing it, but it MIGHT take a little time", and run on that.
like Bush you mean?
the American people can't handle the truth. you cannot run on a platform of "I will raise your taxes". you can govern on it though.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 2:26pm
WOW! My first time here......you mean this thing is MODERATED?
At the risk of offending those present, I offer an honest inquiry: in following the link mentioned in the article to the House Progressive Caucus (a contradiction in terms of magnificent proportion) and in reading their Progressive Promise, I note that it does not in any way address issues of campaign funding, corruption, or lobbying reform. This would seem to be a systemic issue needful of correction before any of the stated issues could find redress. What do others think? I'm just asking....
Posted by Spliff at 11/21/2006 @ 2:43pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 2:22pm
Cool your jets, CHIMI. I won't "blame them for the deficit" (or Iraq).
I'll blame them if they let their little ideology or need to "pay back their coalitions, after 12 years out of power"...gets in the way of REAL deficit reduction.
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 2:48pm
you can govern on it though.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/21/2006 @ 2:26pm
How?....if you "can't run on it", and we have the entire House and 1/3 of the US Senate up for re-election in 2 years....how do you "govern on"...raising taxes?!??!
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 2:49pm
OK, one more digression. This curvy caleña went on to become a famous model after gaining popularity the world over with her exciting podcasts. This is what I'm talking about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSroeXMNh94
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 2:51pm
Spliff (great username, by the way)-
The issues of campaign funding, corruption, and lobbying reform should definitely be addressed, and soon, especially considering that these issues had a great deal to do with the Repubs being drop-kicked out of office recently.
Just not sure how to make our "leaders", Dem or Repub, do the right thing anymore. Many posters here say both sides are corrupt, and I'm agreeing with them more and more.
sigh...
That's my thoughts on it, anyway. Anyone else?
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 2:52pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 2:51pm
I'll be watching that one from home...
Meanwhile, try this one on Youtube, Chimi:
My anti-racism short, "KKKlowns"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKztaWaOkg8
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 2:54pm
NEW DAWN,
Damn! That IS you. Looks like you've made you are a big hit judging by the commentaries under your vid, which is quite good, and indeed very funny. Is that just a hobby, or do you do work in this area?
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 3:15pm
NEW DAWN,
Damn! That IS you. Looks like you've made you are a big hit judging by the commentaries under your vid, which is quite good, and indeed very funny. Is that just a hobby, or do you do work in this area?
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 11/21/2006 @ 3:15pm |
Little bit of both. I do voicework in the real world. Talking is one hell of an easy way to make a check - my thanks to the creator for the big cajones and the subsequent deep voice.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 3:31pm
Chimi -
More entertainment when you have free time:
http://movies.lionhead.com/studio/AnotherNewDawn
The ones on the left are mine, the bottom five or six on the right (bookmarked films) are films I have done voicework for. Aside from my own flicks of course, my favorite roles have been in "Dignity of Men", a political prisoner's story (I play the sadistic interrogator supervising his torture), and "J. Alfred Prufrock Considers the Infinite", based on a T.S. Eliot poem.
Thanks for the kind words, and enjoy!
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 3:37pm
Posted by NEW DAWN 11/21/2006 @ 2:54pm
NEW DAWN, is that done with "The Movies" computer game program?
Posted by Mask at 11/21/2006 @ 3:44pm
Gotta work within the bounds of the software, Frei. And yes, the intro is long - too damned late to change it, though!
Thanks, man.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 3:50pm
Spliff and New Dawn,
Sorry to be the eternal pessimist, but I firmly believe that our Republic (the one that we thought we knew as patriotic young adults) no longer exists. "By the people, for the people" has evolved into "By the MIC, for the MIC and those beholden to the MIC." The MIC includes, but is not limited to: Pharma, Energy, Media, Agri, Banking, Insurance, etc. and those beholden to them are fast becoming every officeholder and judge in the country. The price of access and power has become astronomical, and our elected officials' overriding concern has become the retention of that power. "The right thing" is never a consideration, unless it coincidentally assists in the ascent. Bills are not written or read by our Congresspersons. They are increasingly written by industry representatives, who inform the Congresspeople how to vote and how much they'll be receiving as a contribution in return for that vote. It's legal bribery, prostitution, or whatever vile moniker you'd like to apply. The intelligence used for justification of the use of force in Iraq was read by only 5 Senators, for God's sake!
Posted by jlsolley at 11/21/2006 @ 3:57pm
I just figure anyone with the impertinence to believe they can define "fairness for all" can also believe they are above issues of campaign funding, corruption, or lobbying reform...
Posted by FREIHEIT 11/21/2006 @ 3:28pm | ignore this person
like you repubs I suppose. why was it that you lost this last election again? the wisdom of your governance? that must be it.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:01pm
it's so cool how you bash the dems for not paying lip service to the same issues the repubs wouldn't touch with the proverbial ten foot pole.
ah but the dems have to live up to a higher standard, nicht wahr Mr. Tom Delay?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:03pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/21/2006 @ 12:17am | ignore this person
no answer to this one Frei?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:04pm
Posted by JLSOLLEY 11/21/2006 @ 3:57pm
I hate it when a post like this one is so right.
Posted by New Dawn at 11/21/2006 @ 4:38pm
how do you know Frei? they have not yet begun to rule. did you bitch at the repubs in '94 when all they had was "the contract"? the dems will have their moment of accountability in '08, as will the remaining repubs. until then? I suggest a look back instead of a look ahead. investigations, committees and, dare we hope, holding the repubs responsible for what they've wrought. but god forbid that. how patriotic is that?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:44pm
how do you "govern on"...raising taxes?!??!
Reagan, Bush I and Clinton did it, I'm told
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:45pm
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 11/21/2006 @ 12:17am | ignore this person
no answer to this one Frei?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 4:49pm
FREI,
Step up to the mic and drop some knowledge on us.
Posted by chimichenga at 11/21/2006 @ 4:53pm
how about the last six years, Frei? any accountability there?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 6:15pm
Posted by JLSOLLEY 11/21/2006 @ 3:57pm
Sorry to be the eternal pessimist, but I firmly believe that our Republic (the one that we thought we knew as patriotic young adults) no longer exists.
__________ __________ __________ __________ __________
Sadly, not pessimism, but calling it as it is!
Posted by Tiresias at 11/21/2006 @ 6:30pm
Tir, it did not exist then either.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 6:41pm
Frei, I mean from you. that answer is a cop out.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 6:42pm
the "reason" we invaded afghanistan was retaliation for 9.11. in retrospect, there was no intelligent reason to do so: the 19 hijackers are dead. they got us. and we'll never be able to get them back.
Posted by DARLADOON 11/19/2006 @ 11:03pm | ignore this person
Brilliance on full display.
Posted by Person at 11/21/2006 @ 8:36pm
Frei, no I just thought you'd have an opinion. I do. but I like the way you put that.
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 10:05pm
person, Darla is out there with her opinion. where are you? she is never less than sincere, what are you?
Posted by johannesrolf at 11/21/2006 @ 10:08pm
New Dawn,
Cool, BUT http://movies.lionhead.com/studio/AnotherNewDawn
didn't get me any where...I enjoy your talents!!!
What kind of video would you make if one of those white clowns was caught alone walking down East St Louis on a foggy night? :)
Posted by john maasch at 11/22/2006 @ 12:06am
And of course I thing hsuB's poll numbers are even 5-10% lower than what's showing here:
CNN Poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation. Nov. 17-19, 2006. N=1,025 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
"Who do you have more confidence in when it comes to handling the following issues: President Bush or the Democrats in Congress?
______________President Bush__Democrats in Congress__Both__Neither__Unsure
Terrorism_____________46______________45____________2_____5_______2
Foreign affairs_________39______________53____________1_____4_______2
Taxes________________38______________52____________1_____6_______2
The situation in Iraq____38______________53____________1_____6_______2
The economy_________36______________57____________2_____4_______1
Health care___________30______________61____________2_____6_______2
Social Security________30______________61____________1_____6_______2
Federal budget deficit___27_____________61_____________1_____7_______3
Posted by hsuBfools at 11/22/2006 @ 02:02am
"Who do you have more confidence in when it comes to handling the following issues: President Bush or the Democrats in Congress?
______________President Bush__Democrats in Congress__Both__Neither__Unsure
Terrorism_____________46______________45____________2_____5_______2
Wait a minute....I thought Dems were scoring BETTER than Republicans and Bush on the subject of "Who's better at defending us from terrorism?".
Now, you're saying they are TIED with Bush?!?!?!?
Posted by Mask at 11/22/2006 @ 08:53am
New Dawn,
Cool, BUT http://movies.lionhead.com/studio/AnotherNewDawn
didn't get me any where...I enjoy your talents!!!
What kind of video would you make if one of those white clowns was caught alone walking down East St Louis on a foggy night? :)
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 11/22/2006 @ 12:06am
That's the right web addy, John - just make sure you haven't accidentally copied any spaces in during the c&p.
Yeeks! to your question about East St. Louis... Maybe not so happy an ending?
Posted by New Dawn at 11/22/2006 @ 12:01pm
71% of Iraqis Want U.S. Troops Out Within a Year, 37% within six months
Say U.S. Presence Provoking More Conflict Than it is Preventing
Approval of Attacks on U.S.-led Forces Rises to 6 in 10
Q11. Which of the following would you like the Iraqi government to ask the US-led forces to do?
Polling was carried out September 1-4, 2006 in all provinces of Iraq.
Withdraw all US-led forces within six months ............................37% Kurd.................................................................... .................11 Shia Arab.................................................................... .........36 Sunni Arab.................................................................... .......57
Gradually withdraw US-led forces according to a one-year timeline................................................................ .....34% Kurd.................................................................... .....24 Shia Arab.................................................................38 Sunni Arab...............................................................34
Gradually withdraw US-led forces according to a two-year timeline................................................................ ......20 Kurd.................................................................... .....34 Shia Arab.................................................................20 Sunni Arab................................................................7
Only reduce US-led forces as the security situation improves in Iraq. ........................................................................ .....9 Kurd.................................................................... .....31 Shia Arab..................................................................5 Sunni Arab................................................................2 Don't know/Refused (vol.)...............................................................* 1
http://www.tinyurl.com/sdbok
Expect the Democratic Party to much more closely accomodate Bush's pledge of no withdrawal while he is in office rather than come anywhere close to what Iraqis want. That's what "peck-around-the-edges" opposition parties are there for.
Posted by fromredbird at 11/22/2006 @ 1:51pm
Have a happy "thanksliving" day bloggers!
Posted by lewwelge at 11/23/2006 @ 11:12am