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RedditThe crisis in US diplomacy with Israel and Palestine was the subject of an important discuss yesterday at the annual conference of the Middle East Institute. And the mood was decidedly pessimistic.
Khalil Shikaki, a Brandeis University professor who has conducted more than 100 polls among Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, focused on the decision by Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, not to run for reelection in 2010. The decision by Abbas, which stunned the political universe in the Middle East, is a sign that the Obama administration's Middle East diplomacy has run out of gas. It's a surface indicator of the deep anger and unhappiness that is brewing throughout the Arab world over the administration's seeming unwillingness or inability to force Israel to the table with serious concessions.
Shikaki said that the Abbas' decision not to run is a "major turning point" in Palestinian history. "He decided to destabilize the situation as a way of moving forward," he said.
For the past several years, said Shikaki, Abbas has scored important successes, but it was those very successes that, in face of Israeli intransigence, did him in. First, Abbas achieved important stability in the institutions of the PA, providing good financial management, strong institutions, and an end to the virtual anarchy that prevailed from 2000 until 2006. In 2006, he said, polls showed that just 25 percent of Palestinians felt safe and secure on the West Bank, while in 2009 more than 60 percent felt secure.
In regard to security, the Abbas administration terminated the freedom of various Palestinian warlords to operate with impunity, established an effective military and police chain of command, created a professional trained class of officers, and brought all of the PA's security forces under civilian control. He also improved the justice system, cracked down on Fatah militants, eliminated the Fatah militia that operated outside of the PA's control, and cracked down on Hamas militants. This latter action was not taken because of Israeli demands about Hamas, but because of feelings among PA and Fatah officials that Hamas is a rogue organization. Shikaki's polls at the recent Fatah conference revealed that fully 95 percent of Fatah delegates identified Hamas as a "violent, coup-prone movement." (Correctly, in my view.)
In addition, Abbas restored and improved U.S.-Palestinian relations. Most Palestinians looked favorably on the U.S. role in Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.
And, said Shikaki, Abbas renewed Fatah itself, casting out much of the Old Guard at the recently concluded 6th Congress. It was, he said, a "major transition in Palestinian politics." Abbas brought back and reorganized the Fatah central committee and the Fatah Revolutionary Council as leadership bodies. And he made all of Fatah's institutions stronger and better organized, with much more democratic accountability.
But after all that, Abbas discovered that it wasn't enough. Indeed, by refusing to budge, Israel turned all of Abbas' achievements into dust, making it seem like the PA was no longer a nationalist, liberation movement but – as co-panelist Daniel Levy, a former Israeli negotiator said – turning Fatah into an "occupation-maintenance" organization.
Particularly the coming to power of ultrahardline Bibi Netanyahu in 2009 forced Abbas' hand. Recently, Abbas made the stunning revelation public for the first time that in 2008 he had come very close to a deal with former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Those talks, held in secret, included the exchange of maps from each side concerning the final borders of a Palestinian state. But with Netanyahu, none of that meant anything.
So Abbas has decided to blow everything up. By deciding not to run, he's changed his game plan to "destabilization," Shikaki said. Initially, he said, Abbas' plan was to resign as PA president outright, and he's still likely to do that soon. If he does, everyone in the PA will quit, effectively collapsing the system. "His vision is dead," said Shikaki. "What he intends to do is to start shocking the system."
Precisely because Abbas raised expectations among Palestinians, and because Fatah's new institutions are more democratic and accountable, Abbas could no longer ignore the widespread perception among his constituents that a Palestinian state was still out of reach. By "shocking the system" Abbas hopes that he can force the United States to look more critically at the need for an Israel-Palestine accord, which will require Washington to turn the screws on its Israeli partner.
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Robert Dreyfuss
A chronicle of America's adventures in foreign policy and national security.
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ABBAS GOT NOTHING FROM US AND ISRAEL AFTER MANY PEACE TALKS.HE CHEATED THE PALESTINIAN RESISTANCE MOVEMENT.HE AND FATAH FACTION WAS CORRUPT ALSO.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/11/2009 @ 11:58am
US AND ISRAEL LIKED HIM,BECAUSE HE WAS THEIR PUPPET. IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR PALESTINIANS IF HE GO AT THE EARLIEST.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:02pm
Awesome Swedish chick band.
Posted by winyahn at 11/11/2009 @ 12:03pm
Some on the side of war will hail this as a win for Israel. However they won't see that if this situation is not stabilized it will lead to anarchy and the potential rise of even more radical groups in Palestine potentially much worse than Hamas.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:06pm
I see that, even though today is Veteran's Day, The Nation doesn't see fit to honoring the very people who gave this publication the right to publish without fear of reprisal. So I will take it upon myself to do that job for them.
I hope that ALL of The Nation's contributors and readers can take a minute today to reflect on the sacrifices and patriotism of everone who has served our proud country since the days of the Continental Army to the present. Without their service and sacrifice America would not be the superpower it is today. In fact, we may be under foreign rule and probably living as either socialists or communists if not for the efforts of the Greatest Generation who fought WWII. From the battles for our independence to the terrorist movement which once again reared it's ugly head at Fort Hood, our marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, guardsmen, coast guard and reserves have preserved our way of life and the freedoms we so cherish.
Starting this Sunday night on the History Channel, we will be presented with WWII in HD a series of the major events of WWII. Anyone who appreciates the valor and the unselfish service to our country of all of our military personnel should tune in and absorb. Thank you.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:08pm
So, the "better face" of Arab terrorism has decided not to run for re election; who cares?
Abbas was in many ways worse than Hamas because at least Hamas is open about their desire to destroy Israel and the Jews. Abbas would say one thing to the media and the US and speak just like Hamas when speaking to Arabs.
He was not a "partner for peace" and will not be missed.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 12:08pm
While the Arab world is growing increasingly upset at Israel's reluctance to concede, Israel itself is formulating plans to bomb the living hell out of Iran's nuclear facilities, probably before Christmas.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:11pm
US economic aid and loan guarantees for Israel - full steam ahead. Where do these "diaspora" Jews end up - many in the occupied territories.
'U.S. Jews turn to Israel to escape bleak job market By Sangwon Yoon Sangwon Yoon Wed Nov 11, 7:17 am ET
JERUSALEM (Reuters Life!) – Jewish American math teacher Goldie Burdetsky never expected to find herself working the front desk of a hotel in southern Israel alongside management interns young enough to be her children.
"I mean, for God's sakes, I have a master's degree in education," said the 55-year-old New Yorker. "I expected to be able to find a teaching job in the U.S. without any problems. But I couldn't."
Burdetsky decided to escape the dire economic situation back home, by coming to Israel on a program that offers Jews free housing, Hebrew classes, training, and work experience -- all of which translate into temporary financial respite.
As the unemployment rate in the U.S. climbed to a 26-year high of 10.2 percent last month, growing numbers of young and adult American Jews were arriving in Israel to inexpensively "wait out" the economic lull.
In an attempt to lure diaspora Jews to make Israel their permanent home, the Israeli government and Jewish organizations offer a multitude of scholarships and travel grants, allowing many to spend up to six months in Israel almost for free.
The key aim is to safeguard a Jewish majority in a country where Arab citizens make up 20 percent of the population. In 2008, some 15,400 Jews immigrated to Israel, of whom 3,200 came from North America.
MASA, which means journey in Hebrew, oversees 160 such programs. It has seen the number of participants double and even quadruple this year, especially among those aged 21 to 30.'
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 12:21pm
While the Arab world is growing increasingly upset at Israel's reluctance to concede, Israel itself is formulating plans to bomb the living hell out of Iran's nuclear facilities, probably before Christmas.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:11pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Got a citation that you can share?
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 12:23pm
Got a citation that you can share?
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 12:23pm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article1290331.ece
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:31pm
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Gunny - I was thinking something more "recent"?
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 1:11pm
That article is from almost three years ago. They surely have plans, but I'll bet someone has talked them out of using nukes by now. I hope.
Quotes:
"Some sources in Washington said they doubted if Israel would have the nerve to attack Iran."
Possibly because...
"Scientists have calculated that although contamination from the bunker-busters could be limited, tons of radioactive uranium compounds would be released."
In any event it will be a complete mess. That would immediately jack up the price of oil and gas again and pollute the entire area. Everyone in the world will freeze in place wondering if anybody else will react militarily.
As far as the Israelis, if anyone is crazier than us, it's them. Spying on the US, then receiving money and tacit support even while they expand their illegal settlements. I understand their paranoia, but it's an interactive nightmare where all sides share the blame. And they've been caught trying to buy US secret data recently. What a bunch of guys.
Posted by ficheye at 11/11/2009 @ 1:15pm
Couple of points.
It is my understanding that Olmert and Abbas did not exchange any maps. More significantly, any map "exchange" would have been one way -- Olmert to Abbas. Abbas did not repond to Olmert's offer (somewhere between 93% - 96% of thwe west bank, depending on which report one relies on) except to reject it. There was no counter-offer. And that is part of the existing impasse. The PA has never publically said it would accept less than the 1967 borders, and specifically all of East Jerusalem. Nor is there any report that it made such an offer or counter-offer even in private negotiations.
Additionally, while the PA has made significant security improvements through its new US-trained security forces, the biggest boost in security was Hamas relocating to Gaza. But for that, the civil war between Fatah and Hamas would still be impacting the West Bank wioth violence.
Finally, I don't blame Abbas not to enter into negotiations with Netanyahu, which would be a futile sham because Netanyahu is not going to offer anything close to what the PA would accept. But the PA in part put itself into this situation by not making the necessary compromises in the year of negotiations with Olmert.
Posted by gren at 11/11/2009 @ 1:22pm
Anyone who doubts that Israel has the resolve to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities needs only to read the book, 'The Holocaust' by Doris L. Bergen
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 1:26pm
Thank you, Mr. Dreyfuss. You're one of the very few honest writers left on this topic. It's not un-noticed.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 1:30pm
Now, if Saudi Arabia is instructing our President to get Israel to cool it's heels, this may explain Israel's delay. In any event, when Israel weighs a little radioactive fallout or a spike in oil prices against another attempt at annhilation of it's people, it becomes a no-brainer for them.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 1:30pm
The Israel chauvinists/neo-cons' version of a "good Palestinian leader"?....
is one that agrees to the proposition that there should be no Palestine in Gaza and the West Bank and they should all move "back" into Jordan.
Posted by Mask at 11/11/2009 @ 1:36pm
The Iranian regime--a regime that has murdered or aided in the murder of thousands of Americans--a regime whose political and spiritual leaders chant every day about their desire to murder more Americans--a regime that is working around the clock to build or buy nuclear weapons- is a deadly threat to Israel and America and must be destroyed.
We should have overthrown the government of Iran in 1979. If we had, thousands of American lives would have been saved and 9/11 never would have happened. The Soviets would never have invaded Afghanistan as we occupied its neighbor, the Taliban would never have come to power, and Iran would never have unilaterally invaded Iraq without provocation. Thousands of Israelis would have been saved, as would the lives of the 175,000 Iranians killed by the current mad regime. Hezbollah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and virtually all terrorist organizations would have been technologically, militarily, and financially crippled before they ever got started. International terrorism would have lost its most important sponsor even as it was just starting out.
We must invade Iran now. It supports, arms, trains, and funds AQ and the Taliban. It has killed hundreds of American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is planning on invading Bahrain. It will start a nuclear arms race throughout the Middle East that will increase the chances of a nuclear terror strike on America while decreasing our ability to pinpoint the state responsible if such were to occur. It is waging a proxy war on us every day. It has threatened genocide against Israel. It was involved in 9/11. It chants "Death to America!" every Friday night.
Iran currently harbors over 384 AQ terrorists including 22 senior AQ leaders and is arming and training them for future attacks on America
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:43pm
"Particularly the coming to power of ultrahardline Bibi Netanyahu in 2009 forced Abbas' hand. Recently, Abbas made the stunning revelation public for the first time that in 2008 he had come very close to a deal with former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert........ So Abbas has decided to blow everything up. By deciding not to run, he's changed his game plan to "destabilization,"
If you wanna talk about destabilization as a tactic for gaining control of ANY political system, there's no better or more comprehensive treatise anywhere than Naomi Klein's "Schock Doctrine."
NOW we know why Olmert was railroaded out of office on trumped-up BS charges..... Abbas was about to cut a deal with the good guys and the Israeli Nazis couldn't accept this.
Milton Friedman and his radical crapitalist / neocon / zionist policies are STILL the archetype standard for evil in the world.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 1:43pm
The Israeli Newspaper Haaretz reported:
"Senior officials in the Obama administration also accused Netanyahu of suggesting that he had the power to pressure Obama with various lobbies within the U.S. political arena. The White House views this sentiment as a "re-run" of Netanyahu's behavior during Bill Clinton's administration."
Israel giving the finger to America is not new. The late terrorist, Israeli Prime Minster Ariel Sharon expressed it best when he told Shimon Peres:
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." --Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (speaking to Shimon Peres, as reported on Israel Radio [in Hebrew, Kol Yisrael], 3 October 2001)
Israel built formidable lobby in our Congress; Netanyahu knows it and so does Obama. AIPAC's executive Steven Rosen summed it well when he told Jeffrey Goldberg of the New Yorker:
"He (Rosen) pushed a napkin across the table.' you see this napkin?' he said.' in twenty-four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin"
While Congress has refused to reform healthcare for years under the pretext of high cost; the same Congress approved over 100 billion dollars over the years in grants to Israel, most in closed sessions.
"Obama's Hilltop" is the name for a new Jewish settlement which the settlers have decided to resurrect to show defiance for the US.
Israel is the only foreign country that spies on us, sell our military secrets to our enemies, and kill our soldiers while lavishly rewarded by our Congress; that is stranglehold.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 1:46pm
what's obama to do?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 11/11/2009 @ 1:47pm
Benjamin Netanyahu has an IQ of 180. He's smarter than all you loons here at the Nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:48pm
Benjamin Netanyahu has an IQ of 180. He's smarter than all you loons here at the Nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009
Nutcase,
Hitler had higher IQ.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 1:55pm
"Benjamin Netanyahu has an IQ of 180. He's smarter than all you loons here at the Nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:48pm
No-one I've ever met, including us "loons" here at the Nation, have a problem with intelligent people. It's just intelligent people who happen to be racist, murderous, sociopath liars who are hell-bent on doing the work of Satan that really piss us off.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 1:55pm
Actually, Hitler had an IQ between 145-150.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:59pm
No-one I've ever met, including us "loons" here at the Nation, have a problem with intelligent people. It's just intelligent people who happen to be racist, murderous, sociopath liars who are hell-bent on doing the work of Satan that really piss us off.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 1:55pm
then why do you support the Islamic jihadists?
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 2:02pm
Actually, Hitler had an IQ between 145-150.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:59pm
Nutcase,
So Netanyahu is smarter criminal; we are are in agreement on this.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 2:03pm
The Iranian regime has killed some 175,000 Iranians since 1979 and it invaded Iraq, launching a war that killed more than a million.
If Netanyahu is comparable to Hitler, is the government of Iran also comparable to Hitler?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:07pm
"then why do you support the Islamic jihadists?
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 2:02pm"
Because those "Islamic jihadists" happen to be human beings who are not doing anything much different than those "radicals" who fought for their adopted homeland against British tyranny a couple hundred years ago. And, for that matter, the American Indians who had one HELL of a lot more claim to the land than we (white people) did.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 2:08pm
"If Netanyahu is comparable to Hitler, is the government of Iran also comparable to Hitler?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:07pm "
No, but the Government of Israel certainly is comparable to Hitler. Nutcase, if you're going to use sophomoric analogies, at least get the relevant parties correct.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 2:14pm
If Netanyahu is comparable to Hitler, is the government of Iran also comparable to Hitler?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:07pm
Nutcase,
No, assuming what you said about Iran is correct; the Iranians never attacked other nations. Israel, Netanyahu and Hitler invaded other countries and committed war crimes.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 2:18pm
Iran invaded Iraq and blew up the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. It also has threatened Bahrain with military action.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:19pm
As long as some of you are impressed with Hitler's Iq and stupidly compaer him to Netanyahu whose wife's entire family was murdered by Nazis, I am offering this passage form the book 'Holocaust', by Doris L. Bergen:
THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE---------STREAMING THE KILLING OPERATIONS
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:24pm
As long as some of you are impressed with Hitler's Iq and stupidly compaer him to Netanyahu whose wife's entire family was murdered by Nazis, I am offering this passage form the book 'Holocaust', by Doris L. Bergen:
THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE---------STREAMING THE KILLING OPERATIONS
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:24pm
then why do you support the Islamic jihadists?
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 2:02pm"
Because those "Islamic jihadists" happen to be human beings who are not doing anything much different than those "radicals" who fought for their adopted homeland against British tyranny a couple hundred years ago. And, for that matter, the American Indians who had one HELL of a lot more claim to the land than we (white people) did.
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 2:08pm
Really? can you provide the quotes from the Colonists where they said that they wanted the British to disappear off the face of the earth?
How about any statements from Colonists calling the British pigs and monkeys?
any statements from the Colonists saying that they are bound by G-d to kill all British peoples?
As to the indians, they would disagree because they didn't believe in ownership of land.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 2:24pm
Iran invaded Iraq and blew up the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. It also has threatened Bahrain with military action.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009
Nutcase,
You are mixing up between al Qaeda and Iran on the Khobar Towers. "Threat of invading Bahrain" is not an invasion; assuming what you said is correct. I suggest that you verify your sources of information; although I understand your frustration in this case.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 2:30pm
THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE---------STREAMING THE KILLING OPERATIONS
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:24pm
That ws Heydrich.
Very high IQ, violinist, and overall prick. Succeeded by Ernst Kaltenbrunner, after being offed by Czech commandos.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 11/11/2009 @ 2:34pm
Unlike America's founding fathers, who sought independence to liberate themselves from a government that denied their individual rights, the Palestinians' war for independence is born out of a desire to have a sovereign dictatorship of their own, one that is merely free from Israel. In fact, the majority of Palestinians want the annihilation of Israel, more than they want independence. This is despite the fact that Israel is inordinately more free and respectful of individual rights, and unique among Middle Eastern nations in this regard. The Palestinians who live within Israeli society enjoy the same rights as Jews, and are infinitely freer than their brothers in Gaza and the West Bank.
The bromide of "a right to self-determination" for a people is nonsense. The meaning of that phrase is that a people have a right to choose a dictatorial form of government, and that free countries must recognize and respect it. One fallacious premise to this claim is that the majority within a country is always right, and that the minority's opinion is always wrong. Should free countries have respected Germany's election of Hitler and his totalitarian regime? What about those Germans who opposed him? Was the Holocaust the German people's "right to self-determination"? Clearly the majority can want what is wrong and even evil, and that is one reason why the claim to "a right to self-determination" is nonsense.
By equating America's founding fathers with the jihadists, you are equating freedom with slavery.
Further, the Americans abided by the laws of war, unlike the cowardly jihadists.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:37pm
CONTINUED.....By the end of 1941, the German leadership concluded that mass shootings were not the most efficient way to carry out the so-called final-solution. Their concerns were not about the victims but rather about the perpetrators, who found it phyysically and psychologically difficult to shoot people all day long at close range.
Led by Heydrich, top German officials met in early 1942 to coordinate and streamline their efforts to annhilate the Jews. This meeting was called the Wannsee Conference because it took place in a villa in Wannsee. a suberb of Berlin.
At the conference were representatives from the offices and agencies in the German government and Nazi Party who had a direct hand in the killing process. High officials from the Foreign Office were on hand as were reps of the SS, Einsatzgruppen, Nazi Party Headquarters, Justice Ministry, Hans Frank in the General Gov. in Poland, and others. Heydrich himself chaired the meeting. Eichmann, who would later be in charge of transporting Jews to the killing centers, produced the official report.
Wannsee focused on Jews as the top priority of Nazi destruction. Eichmann's report makes it clear that all 11 million Jews in Europe were targeted for murder. The list even included Jews in Sweden, Ireland, and England, places not in German hands in 1942. Also specified were Jews in the 'European part" of Turkey., an indication that Jews living outside of Europe would be slated for destruction in a subsequent phase of operations.
The Conference also addressed methods of killing. Killing centers with gas chambers as their means of choice. Instead of bringing the killers to their victims, it was decided that the victims should be transported to their killers.......
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:39pm
At the same time, the methods of killing already introduced continued, that is, shootings, starvation, death by overwork, abuse, and disease. It was remarkable how quickly things moved forward once the line to annhilation had been crossed.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:40pm
From around 1923 to 1945, Satan lived in Germany.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:42pm
He now lives in Iran.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:42pm
There is not a country on this planet, not has there ever been, that is innocent of warmongering and slaughter. The concept of denigrating people anywhere for defending (through slaughter) their self-defined rights is not even relevant, here. To put this in context, I say this:
If the Jews want to FINALLY (after 4,000 years of trying) conquer the land that their racist-realtor "G_d" "promised" to them, and to them alone, so be it. I don't give a damn if the Israelites break their third and final "covenant" with God, and in so doing condemn themselves to Hell for eternity. Just leave me and my country, the USA, which was founded not on 'Christian" principles, but on the principles of justice (albeit very imperfectly) OUT OF IT.
The Jews and their 4,500 year-old racist apartheid scams are "nadda ma problem" in the words of Father Guido Sarducci. (SNL circa 1978)
Posted by DejaVu at 11/11/2009 @ 2:43pm
The Taliban jihadists (armed and trained with explosives by Tehran) are rapists and sexual predators who pour acid onto the faces of little girls for going to school, bomb grade schools with poison gas, crush gays with huge stone walls, behead apostates, and stone women to death.
The Iranian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who stone adulterers to death, saw off the limbs of criminals, hang gays, exterminate Baha'is, and light people on fire for questioning the Supreme Leader.
The Palestinian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who torture gays to death, crucify thieves, sexually assault Israeli women as a means of resistance, behead apostates, and stone adulterers to death.
You compared them to our Founding Fathers.
For shame.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:46pm
Further, the Americans abided by the laws of war, unlike the cowardly jihadists.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:37pm
nutcase,
Ah, now you are talking about the "Laws of War", well why not read the conclusion of the UN report about the Israeli war crimes in Gaza. BTW, the author, Judge Goldstone, is Jew, and thus can't be Anti-Semite.
Goldstone proves that your darling "Israel" has committed atrocious war crimes against the civilians of Gaza.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 2:50pm
In 1996, nineteen U.S. soldiers were killed in their barracks in Saudi Arabia. According to a front-page story in The New York Times (6/21/98): "Evidence suggesting that Iran sponsored the attack has further complicated the investigation, because the United States and Saudi Arabia have recently sought to improve relations with a new, relatively moderate Government in Teheran."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:51pm
Among the list of people that Hitler's Germany slated for killing were all Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, handicapped people, Jahovah's Witnesses, and slavic people who were considered sumhuman and unfit to mate with Aryans, among others.
Hitler's philosophy was based on race and space. The Aryan race was the superior race. He needed space so that he could expand his purification of German and in turn European society and later of the world. Hitler invaded countries to the east and south, killed or imprisoned their inhabitants and gave their property and material wealth to Aryans. He went to far when he decided to attack the Soviets who changed the course of history at Stalingrad where Hitlers forces were overwhelmed. At the same time, the alliels were advancing from the west and eventually landed at Normand on D-Day, June 6th, 1944.
All during this time, the killing centers ran full steam ahead.
Ironically, Hitler thought that the people to his west, French, English and Americans were of good enough quality to someday meld with Aryans. As we know, Hitler and his minions never lived to see their ultimate goals.
Satan moved on.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:52pm
The Goldstone Report found that Hamas, which attacked Israel repeatedly before Israel responded in self-defense, committed war crimes against Israel. It also stated that Israel's military offensive against those who unilaterally initiated aggression and committed war crimes against it constituted a "war crime" AS WELL.
This is standard leftist boilerplate about moral equivalency and the cycle of violence. If a foreign government committed war crimes and aggression against America, and America responded by destroying that government, this would be a "war crime" by the standard of the report because the American retaliation would have been greater in scale than the initial assault on America.
In other words, if America responded to Pearl Harbor with an attack on Japan that killed more people than died in Pearl Harbor, this would be a disproportionate response and a war crime by the standards of the report.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 2:53pm
Journalists didnt get their freedom from the military, was it not the military that wanted the Military Commissions Act with it's Enemy Combatant outside-the-courts treatment in secret of ANYONE so designated by the Executive - and if not for journalists we would not have any justice in military courts - if not for journalists you authoritarian types would be locking up soldiers getting tough on them with your stupid get-tough BS. If Americans owe gratitude to the military, it's for saving their lives from the Vietnamese and the Iraqis. No, soldiers deserve our respect but not "thanks for our freedom" - quite the contrary.
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 2:57pm
The brutality and suffering that was caused by this maniac and the people who thought just like him will never be forgotten. Israel especially will never, that's NEVER, allow any dictator or government or insanity of any group to harm their race again. America is their ally.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:57pm
Was it not JOURNALISTS that soldiers turned to for relief on Walter Reed, on body armor, on rapes being covered up, on PTSD, please JOURNALISTS tell the American people about how the authoritarians want to treat us.
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 2:59pm
How about the Tillman family - who protected them the media or the brass?
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 3:00pm
Americans wouldnt even ever have heard about Americans being stop-lossed indefinitely - it would all be in-secret. Without journalists keeping the authoritarian-minded in-line, reporting on their abuse, the military would be twice the living hell. When generals were shorting the troops their body armor, making them pay it out of their pocket - who would have told the people? The story would NEVER have been told by the brass, NEVER. Every abuse that soldiers get from the brass would be ten times if it were not for journalists. And the military HAS NOT defended American's rights, American's rights are constantly at odds with military leadership, who wants us to give up freedom for security. Now the military works hard, trains hard, makes sacrifices, dies, gets maimed, gets blow up, gets shot up - all for lies - and I respect that they have sacrificed - but it is their OWN LEADERSHIP making them suffer - not hippies - not reporters - not The Nation - but your own authoritarian minded leadership - and The Nation actually PROTECTS YOU, believe it or not, fool.
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 3:05pm
Whatever, Conservative
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 3:07pm
Abbas allowed himself to be used in a "divide and conquer" scheme designed by Israel and now whines because Israel is not dealing in good faith.
If he were smart, he would have formed a strong "unbreakable" alliance with Hamas as this would force Israel to deal with the "entire" Palestinian problem rather than hiding behind Fatah in their desire to crush the democratically elected Hamas.
There is only ONE Palestine, and Abbas, more than anyone, failed to comprehend this.
Posted by Metteyya at 11/11/2009 @ 3:08pm
Was it not JOURNALISTS that soldiers turned to for relief on Walter Reed, on body armor, on rapes being covered up, on PTSD, please JOURNALISTS tell the American people about how the authoritarians want to treat us.
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 2:59pm
Freedom and the soldiers response to duty to G-d and country provides your ability to be a jerk.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 3:09pm
Okay, it's official....either we've got posers...
or the neo-conservatives have gone off the edge, into the Abyss, and are falling deeper into more madness than I thought was possible.
AKA rightwingnutcase and gunslinger's latests.
I'm open to either possibility, but hoping for the former not the latter.
Posted by Mask at 11/11/2009 @ 3:10pm
THE WANNSEE CONFERENCE--
there is a good film on this subject. seek it out.
Posted by emile duBois at 11/11/2009 @ 3:20pm
Hitler's philosophy was based on race and space. The Aryan race was the superior race.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 2:52pm
Gunslinger,
The dark Nazi era, definitely, reminds us of modern Israel, where the rhetoric among the orthodox Jewish settlers is not unlike that of the Nazis.
Establishing "Jewish State" that is inhabited only by the "Chosen People" while exterminating the indigenous Palestinians "Cockroaches" which is a term used by a top Israeli General, are commonly used jargons in Israel.
In the "Hatanya Fundamental" book of the "Habbad" movement which is one of the most important branch Hassidism in Israel. According to this book, all non-Jews are totally satanic creatures "in whom there is absolutely nothing good"; even a non-Jewish embryo is qualitatively different from a Jewish one.
Like the Nazis, many Israeli leaders were raised in an environment that implanted this racist doctrine deep inside them.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 3:24pm
The neocons are soft Commies who advocate endless worldwide revolution from above.
They have betrayed America.
We could have completely obliterated all traces of the Taliban and AQ via a massive bombing campaign in Afghanistan, and we could have done the same to destroy the government of Iran. Our agents could then have worked with the Northern Alliance and Iranian resistance and helped fund, arm, and train them to set up new governments. There would have been no insurgency in Afghanistan or Iran. We would have helped the Iranian resistance take over and done the same with the Northern Alliance, but would have left it to them to decide if or (in the case of Iran) when to make a transition to democracy. There would have been no US deaths.
We should have done this immediately after 9/11. Iran would now be a democracy, Afghanistan would be a much better country than it is today, and the major terrorist threat to America would be eliminated (the only other country to then have been concerned about would be Saudi Arabia).
The neocons needlessly sacrificed thousands of Americans in pointless welfare wars in Iraq and Afghanistan instead, while leaving the gravest threat to America since Imperial Japan, The Islamic Republic of Iran, in power and emboldened. They have killed more Americans than the 9/11 hijackers and deserve to be condemned as traitors and self-righteous moral hypocrites getting other people killed so they can feel good about themselves and their "highly-evolved moral consciences".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 3:30pm
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 3:24pm
Sorry but you are either very stupid or very sick. Or maybe both.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 4:21pm
Netanyahu would clearly prefer dealing with Hamas over Abbas. Like Anwar Sadat before him, Abbas called the Israeli bluff about desiring Peace. Hamas calls for resistance and liberation fit more perfectly into the sly Netanyahu's vision of usurpation of more Palestinian land, while crying "they want to push us to the sea".
In 2002, Arab leaders met in Beirut, Lebanon and came up with the Arab Peace Initiative. They offered Israel full diplomatic and economic ties, if Israel returns Arab land conquered in the 1967 war. Arial Sharon, who was the Israeli Prime Minister then, answered by sending his tanks across the West Bank to impose total Israeli control and to ravage the Palestinian infrastructure, and thus ending the Oslo peace accord.
The Israelis always wanted to have the cake and eat it too. Peace Israeli-style means that Palestinians have to give up everything; including their right to state of their own. The entire world has recognized this fact, except the Israeli-controlled US Congress and mainstream media.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 4:29pm
"Obama's Hilltop" is the name for a new Jewish settlement which the settlers have decided to resurrect to show defiance for the US.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 1:46pm
Some other possible names: New Amsterdam, Königsberg, Constantinople, Aksai Chin, Lemberg, Lwow, Aztlan...
Posted by Mistral at 11/11/2009 @ 4:37pm
Sorry but you are either very stupid or very sick. Or maybe both.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 4:21pm
gunslinger,
What is the problem with you jerk? Are feeling indignant because I am refusing to buy membership card into the deceived-Americans club?
Your in-depth reference to the Nazi crimes was fascinating; however, the topic of discussion happened to be the Israeli crimes. If you have nothing to contribute there, then shut up your foul mouth and get lost.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 4:48pm
Just because Israel has strong ties to the whole Western financial system, does not mean Western powers, especially the US, should back them on anything they do. No solution is possible to that conflict unless the US abandons its politics to a neutral position. The Israelis know what is happening in our internal politics and they are now especially adamant of keeping their 'falcon ' posture so that if the Obama regime wants to do something against them they will pull the strings of the" Democratic party being anti-Israel" which in turn will give them 20 more years of safe Republican rule.
What should Obama do? Like Clinton, freeze the Israeli assets around the world and more, establish a couple of military bases in surrounding Arab countries like Jordan, Lebanon, and maybe even Egypt. The plain message: "we mean business".
Never in history there has been such an injustice perpetrated against a nation (the Palestinians) in the name of another nation's right to exist coming from nowhere. But then who cares for those poor and doomed Palestinians?.....That's the problem, if the US won't care, the terrorists will.
Posted by Frank42 at 11/11/2009 @ 4:58pm
establish a couple of military bases in surrounding Arab countries like Jordan, Lebanon, and maybe even Egypt.
Posted by Frank42 at 11/11/2009 @ 4:58pm
Wasn't the existence of US military bases in the Middle East the main reason Bin Laden gave for the September 11 terrorist attack?
Posted by Mistral at 11/11/2009 @ 5:17pm
We should have done this immediately after 9/11. Iran would now be a democracy, Afghanistan would be a much better country than it is today, and the major terrorist threat to America would be eliminated (the only other country to then have been concerned about would be Saudi Arabia).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 3:30pm
And the tooth fairy really exists, and the earth is flat.
For the record:
Iran had nothing to do with 911. Iran are enemies of the Taliban, who killed 10 Iranian political leaders. The two sides almost went to war over the incident. The Taliban are supoprted by Saudi Arabia against Iran. Iran are supporters of the Northern alliance, so the Northern Alliance, who are warlords with no interest in democracy, certainly would not have helped us overthrow the leadership in Tehran. Iran is not threat to the US. Iran have killed no Amerians.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 5:29pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 12:08pm
Abbas has done more to push the peace process than anyone before him including anyone who has served in Israel. If you remember correctly it's him who kept peace while Israel was bombing Gaza. You're comment is so far from reality it's ludicrous. Just admit that you dislike anyone Muslim and stop trying to tightrope walk between sounding politically correct and sounding like you want to kill every Muslim that walks.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:35pm
good riddance of abbas.he was nothing but a stooge for the sworn enemies of his people.he had not one nationalist bone in his miserable body and his departure will strengthen the palestinain national movement.and believe me he is going because the people of occupied palestine want him to go.fuck him and the PA.
Posted by excalibur999 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:38pm
DREYFUSS: "The decision by Abbas, which stunned the political universe in the Middle East, is a sign that the Obama administration's Middle East diplomacy has run out of gas."
Curious, and perhaps on a higher note, is there anywhere The Messiah's diplomacy is running on full? Besides Russia which loves him!
To be Fair and Balanced.....Bush wasn't running on full wrt "Middle East diplomacy" either but he never said he was going to RESET everything or aimed for a Nobel...hehehehe!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 5:43pm
Abbas has done more to push the peace process than anyone before him including anyone who has served in Israel.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:35pm
Sorry Cccomfo1, while you are correct in your analysis of Larry and his attitude to Muslisms, your portrayal of Abbas is patently false. Abbas was/is a corrupt Israeli puppet, who has lost so much credibility among the Palestinians that he no longer has any ability to lead.
1. Following the election of Hamas in 2006, Abbas canceled unity talks, and under orders from Washington, launched a coup to overthrow Hamas.
2. During the massacre of Gaza, Abbas stood mute.
3. Following the release of the Goldsmith report, Abbas' hesitation to endorse the report was a nail in the coffin of his political future.
4. Abbas' term ran out in January and thus has no right to claim political leadership of any kind.
What Israel did with Abbas they previously did to Arafat. Israel picks their partner for peace, who in reality simply becomes a sacrificial lamb. While the charade holds up, Israel stonewall and stab that partner in the back until his time runs out.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 5:48pm
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 4:48pm
Sorry but I don't see the Israelis as criminal by any stretch of the imagination. When your people have faced annihilation once before and are threathened again with the same, they are entitled to defend themselves by ant means necessary and as I've stated, we are their allies.
So I will repeat, you are either too stupid or too sick, now I think probably both, to understand the situation.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:56pm
Sorry but I don't see the Israelis as criminal by any stretch of the imagination.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:56pm
Massacring 1,400 people is not enough for you? Violating 100 UN Resolutions is not enough for you? Violating international law, and the Geneva Conventions is not enough for you?
Or is it you that is are either too stupid or too sick to see the obvious?
Israel doe snot face annihilation and are not threathened by anyone. A rapist doesn't get to claim self defense when his victim tries to fight back.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 6:05pm
Without Abbas as a buffer, Hamas may have to start to face reality, and take responsibility for its actions.
I am reminded that the Palestinians who stayed in what became Israel have full citizenship, including getting elected to the Knesset. They are the freest of all Arab peoples.
John D. Froelich By the way, I am NOT Jewish.
Posted by balataf at 11/11/2009 @ 6:15pm
'The Israeli columnist, Gideon Levy, wrote in Haaretz: "Now is the time to say to the United States: Enough flattery. If you don't change the tone, nothing will change. As long as Israel feels the United States is in its pocket, and that America's automatic veto will save it from condemnations and sanctions, that it will receive massive aid unconditionally, and that it can continue waging punitive, lethal campaigns without a word from Washington, killing, destroying and imprisoning without the world's policeman making a sound, it will continue in its ways...
"Illegal acts like the occupation and settlement expansion, and offensives that may have involved war crimes, as in Gaza, deserve a different approach. If America and the world had issued condemnations after Operation Summer Rains in 2006 - which left 400 Palestinians dead and severe infrastructure damage in the first major operation in Gaza since the disengagement - then Operation Cast Lead never would have been launched.
"It is true that unlike all the world's other troublemakers, Israel is viewed as a Western democracy, but Israel of 2009 is a country whose language is force. Anwar Sadat may have been the last leader to win our hearts with optimistic, hope-igniting speeches. If he were to visit Israel today, he would be jeered off the stage. The Syrian president pleads for peace and Israel callously dismisses him, the United States begs for a settlement freeze and Israel turns up its nose. This is what happens when there are no consequences for Israel's inaction."
US credibility damaged by reversal on Israeli settlements - The National
Paul Woodward, Online Correspondent
Last Updated: November 02. 2009 10:12AM UAE / November 2. 2009 6:12AM GMT
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 6:15pm
While the Arab world is growing increasingly upset at Israel's reluctance to concede, Israel itself is formulating plans to bomb the living hell out of Iran's nuclear facilities, probably before Christmas.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 12:11pm
Giving back what you stole from otehrs is not conceding. On and since the date of that link you provided, you might have noticed that even Bush told the Israeli's they weren't allowed to bomb Iran, which he did in 2008, so you might want to catch up on your reading material by 2 years.
Anyone who doubts that Israel has the resolve to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities needs only to read the book, 'The Holocaust' by Doris L. Bergen
So you see, Israel's resolve is actually quite limited. Furthermore, Israel doesn't have the capacity to bomb Iran's facilities without Uncle Sam's help.
"Ironically, Hitler thought that the people to his west, French, English and Americans were of good enough quality to someday meld with Aryans."
Sadly, Israelis don't feel those to it's East are good enough quality to someday meld , which is why they are running a campaign against the danger of mixed marriages.
Israel has moved on from the Torah and finally entered the 1950's. That's progress for you!!
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 6:20pm
Without Abbas as a buffer, Hamas may have to start to face reality, and take responsibility for its actions.
Posted by balataf at 11/11/2009 @ 6:15pm
True, but with Abbas no longer tehre to work against the interests fo the Palesitinians, the Israelis might have to do the same.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 6:23pm
"Middle East diplomacy" either but he never said he was going to RESET everything or aimed for a Nobel...hehehehe!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 5:43pm
Funny you Zionist; very funny.
Is it Obama's fault that Diplomacy has not succeeded in the Middle East?
How abut your cousins, the full-time AIPAC's army of lobbyists, who are working full time to intimidate Congress to keep maintain its blind support for Israel.
How about all the Zionist editors in our mainstream media, who are relentlessly brain-washing Americans about the true nature of Israel?
Do you really want to invigorate the Middle East Diplomacy Happy? Well, then why not stop sending your tax-deductible donations to Israel to steal more Palestinian land.
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 6:23pm
To be Fair and Balanced.....Bush wasn't running on full wrt "Middle East diplomacy" either but he never said he was going to RESET everything or aimed for a Nobel...hehehehe!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 5:43pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You think Clinton's trip to the ME was timed after the Nobel award on purpose?
Of course it was!
Aspirational my ass!
Posted by OneVote at 11/11/2009 @ 6:34pm
Is it Obama's fault that Diplomacy has not succeeded in the Middle East?
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 6:23pm
Especially when you consider the sterling achievement fo Bush over 8 years.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 6:38pm
are threatened again with the same, they are entitled to defend themselves by ant means necessary and as I've stated, we are their allies.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:56pm
Gunslinger1,
The only threat to Israel is the rotten Apartheid regime it is imposing on the Palestinians and the theft of Palestinian homes and land. Why wouldn't Israel respond to the Arab Peace Initiative? You simply can't establish a Talmudic religious state in the 21st century.
And don't give me the shit about Israel being our ally. The Israelis have been spying on us and selling our top secrets to our enemies for years. They interfere in our elections and they have killed and wounded our soldiers with impunity. If Israel is our ally, then who needs an enemy?
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 6:42pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 3:30pm
BTW. rightwingnutcase, it looks like your Iran / Al Qaeda link conspiracy theory is going up in smoke.
"DUBAI (AFP) – A commander of an Al-Qaeda-linked group warned Islam's majority Sunnis that the Shiites and Iran pose a greater "danger" to their religion than Jews or Christians, a US monitoring group said on Tuesday.
"We call on the nation ... to stand by (Sunnis) with whatever means they can against the danger of Iran and those who follow (the Shiite) faith in the region," Mohammed bin Abdul Rahman al-Rashid of Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula said in an audio recording carried by SITE Intelligence group."
and
"The Shiites "are being driven by a greed to take over Muslim countries and they are full of a wish to annihilate Sunnis," Rashid said. "Their threat to Islam and its people is much bigger than that from Jews and Christians."
http://tinyurl.com/ykoyl2f
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 6:46pm
The Nation actually PROTECTS YOU, believe it or not, fool.
Posted by DPGrassley at 11/11/2009 @ 3:05pm
Dumbest thing I've ever heard.
If the leftist crackers racist promotion of sublimation and groupthink for non-anglos had been touted as heavily by the MSM and the campus race groups during WWII, than the immense pressure on Japanese, German, and Italian-American soldiers, as well as Black and Native American soldiers to choose tribal identity over national would have sunk the American war effort, and Hitler may well have held on to some of the territory he had won.
Which of course, would have been fine with the Cockburn group (The Nation), who supported the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
Today, the Lefts' "groupthink for them" ideology and hyperbolic mischaracterization of the wars against AQ, the Taliban, and Hussein, get into the heads of spastic loners like Maj. Hasan and tell him that he is a sellout who must redeem himself.
To top it off, the PC police do the job that the white "Citizen's Councils" did for the KKK, depicting any attempt to root out true jihadists as a hateful attack on good Muslims' "way of life," assuring that future attacks will not be stopped, and resentment towards Muslims will grow.
Nice work.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 6:47pm
Ladies and gentlemen, if King David, Solomon, the Babylonians, Alexander the Great, the Egyptians, Pompey, Pontius Pilate, Titus, Caliph Umar, the Seljuks, Godfrey of Bouillon, Saladin, the Ottomans, and the British Empire couldn't settle all this, why do any of you think you have the answer?
Let's talk about this again in another 3000 years or so.
Posted by Mistral at 11/11/2009 @ 7:02pm
I am reminded that the Palestinians who stayed in what became Israel have full citizenship, including getting elected to the Knesset. John D. Froelich By the way, I am NOT Jewish.
Posted by balataf at 11/11/2009 @ 6:15pm
John,
Let's see, I will send you to the US Congress provided:
If you marry a Canadian woman, then you have to move with her to Canada, because you can't bring her to the US. That is what an Israeli citizen of Arab Origin has to contend with.
I will also send you to the US Congress; however, you are excluded from owning properties or living in 92% of the USA. The Jewish Land Authority who has jurisdiction over 92% of Israel's land stipulates that this land is for the benefit of Jews only.
These are only few of the restrictions imposed on Arabs inside Israel. Now, as non-Jew, do you want to be member of the Israeli Knesset and live under such discriminatory conditions?
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 7:03pm
Today, the Lefts' "groupthink for them" ideology and hyperbolic mischaracterization of the wars against AQ, the Taliban, and Hussein, get into the heads of spastic loners like Maj. Hasan and tell him that he is a sellout who must redeem himself.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 6:47pm
Way to go gangpapist. Who needs an investigation. You figured out it's all the fault of the left wing ideologues.
I suppose it was their idea that Hasan join the military, they then pulled strings to have him promoted.
It's all the meddling of the evil Lefty Cabal.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:04pm
The Republican Party took a hit with black voters for the "Southern Strategy." Architects like Buchanan have long since left the party but I hope that one day soon the GOP, led by a black nominee for president, will denounce that part of it's past.
But what have the MSM, Hollywood, and the recording industry, all dominated by leftist crackers done for Black America. They have feverishly promoted intellectual, cultural, and literal suicide.
Half of every "buddy" movie is a racist stereotype. Practically every Disney movie includes a racist stereotype of a "black" aardvark or giraffe or somesuch. The leftist culturati celebrates Tyler Perry's second-rate minstrelsy. The recording industry has published more turns of phrase for black-ob-black murder than it has for menage-a-trois.
Hispanics should consider themselves lucky that they are still inexplicably invisible to the leftist cracker MSM.
Now Muslim Americans find themselves in a pressure cooker, surrounded by racist Leftists that expect "authenticity" over individuality, jihadi propaganda from abroad and at home, and the false idea that finding common ground with the Americans that come closer to sharing their values is an act of betrayal.
Nice work.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:04pm
The Iranian regime is a regime that has murdered or aided in the murder of thousands of Americans--a regime whose political and spiritual leaders chant every day about their desire to murder more Americans--a regime that is working around the clock to build or buy nuclear weapons.
The Iranian regime is tirelessly plotting to murder you, me, our children, our families, and our friends. Every literate American knows this (even the ones who deny it). But under the spell of America's current moral premises, we will not defend ourselves; we will not destroy the Iranian regime; and we will pay dearly, again and again.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 7:08pm
These are only few of the restrictions imposed on Arabs inside Israel. Now, as non-Jew, do you want to be member of the Israeli Knesset and live under such discriminatory conditions?
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 7:03pm
Especially when even so called doves, like Tzipi Livni, state that the Israeli Palestinians will need to accept that their political future is outside of Israel.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:09pm
The Iranian regime is a regime that has murdered or aided in the murder of thousands of Americans
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 7:08pm
Rubbish of course. If the Iranian regime had indeed murdered or aided in the murder of thousands of Americans, we'd be at war with them by now.
The chants of Iran's leaders have never killed anyone.
They have never expressed any desire to murder more Americans.
As the IAEA and 16 US intelligence agencies keep reminding us, Iran is not building or buying nuclear weapons.
The Iranian regime not plotting to murder anyone and they are no threat to any Americans.
These are just the paranoid delusions of someone who's just experienced a mental breakdown.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:13pm
"They have feverishly promoted intellectual, cultural, and literal suicide."
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:04pm
One could argue they have given America what America wants.
For example, CNN has 2 version of heir news coverage, one for the US and another for the rest of the world to see, Apparently the world-wide version is too confronting for Middle America's sensibilities.
Shock jock networks like Fox, who work overtime to dumb down the American population, are obviously not the brainchild of the left. Unless of course, you believe they are an instrument of a larger left wing conspiracy.
But don't let reality get in the way of a perfectly good paranoid delusion.
Carry on...
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:19pm
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:04pm
No, it doesn't work that way, but enjoy the power you have for now.
Obama's boilerplate about veterans on our big day today, whether he believes it or not is instuctive in only one way.
He says these things because the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans like us. They do not see us as Islamophobic genocidaires, which we are not.
People like us, and they don't like you. Your wives sneak off during fleet week because they like us despite themselves.
You have disproportionate power in govt and media now, but it will not last because people don't like you. You don't even like yourselves. You guys can't sustain your friendships because they break down over insufficient outrage about whatever anti-American flavor of the month. Whenever you guys have had state power you have cannibalized each other.
You don't have a cabal that places moles in officer positions but the hateful racist ideologies that you promote are murderous, and will reach their expiration date soon.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:20pm
Iran is willing to do anything to kill yet more Americans, including training and arming AQ and the Taliban. The Taliban is given explosives by Iran. Iranian assassins kill Americans in Afghanistan. The near entirety of AQ's surviving leadership since the Afghan war is based in Iran.
AQ is also willing to do anything to kill more Americans, including getting funded by the CIA during the Reagan administration and working with Iran to carry out terror strikes on America.
Those comments about AQ-affiliated terrorists condemning Tehran are irrelevant. America supports terror groups in Iran which hate the current regime in Tehran; the left lead by Sy Hersh declared these terrorists AQ-affiliated. That these anti-Iranian terror groups hate Iran is self-evident; as far as the left's claims that they are AQ affiliates, any Sunni terror group could be called AQ-affiliated but there is no business card or stamp on your hand that clearly identifies you with AQ.
That Iran was involved in the training, harboring, and transporting abroad of the AQ terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 is a matter of public record. They knew these people were terrorists; they arranged for them to meet the terrorist Revolutionary Guards Corps, perhaps for training. They knew they were planning future attacks abroad; they probably knew the target was America. They helped transport them abroad after harboring them, and they took action to prevent red flags from being raised at their transportation. They funded and supported them. AQ terrorists have been trained in the use of explosives against America by Iran as well.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 7:28pm
Here is another difference between me and you Dingo. You guys obfuscate with the tired "What about McVeigh, Christians evil, Ronald McDonald?"
What about it? I support infiltrating, arresting, and destroying right-wing cracker extremist criminals. The right-wing extremist movement was largely shut down in the nineties and I supported that. (No, not Glenn Beck, actual criminals.)
I supported the SPLCs literally suing the Aryan Nations compound out of business, even though they were largely marginal and irrelevant.
I support infiltrating and stopping "Christian" rightists who plot to kill abortion doctors.
And I support the same approach to jihadist Muslim groups. I do not hate Muslims. I respect them as equals, and therefore expect the same level of civility and live-and-let-live from them. It is only the extremists that i want taken down.
The Left pays occasional lip service to anti-jihadism, but here's where the lie comes in: You will NEVER see the Nation publish an article critical of the extremist goings-on at the mosque in Virginia that Mr. Hasan attended. Never. You will NEVER see one Nation writer take on one of the minority of hardcore haters in America's Muslim community. Never. Because the enemy of my enemy...
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:38pm
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:38pm
That sounds like an accurate criticism. Was there a Reverend Wright parallel hostile, over the top, anti-American sort of religious correlative figure at that mosque? Any video of him sweating and rocking and ranting, declaring America evil?
Posted by winyahn at 11/11/2009 @ 7:54pm
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009
That's it, just keep telling yourself that you know what the OVERWHELMING majority of Americans think while you and the rest of the flat earth fraternity disappear into political and social obscurity.
No, it doesn't work that way, but enjoy the power you have for now.
Radicals don't see themselves as radicals, so it's not surprising that you will convince yourself you are Islamophobes, but like most conditions, denial is always the first stage or recovery and you haven't even begun to accept he diagnosis.
No, people like you at all, which is why they voted you into political obscurity. I realise you wingnuts don;t do reality, but some truthisms are hard to avoid. Our wives are too easily bored by your small brains and your inability to satisfy women.
The rest of your diatribe sounds like a transcription from your latest visit tot your shrink. You needn't have bothered demonstrating the degree of your dis functionality.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:58pm
Here is another difference between me and you Dingo. You guys obfuscate with the tired "What about McVeigh, Christians evil, Ronald McDonald?"
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:38pm
How do you know that I don't stand in agreement with you on this position? Of course, that won't stop the loons and their blowhard on Fox News bleating about government excess, the destruction of freedoms and most of all, paranoid delusions about how Obama wants to take your guns away. In any case, we have a lot in common.
I too support infiltrating and stopping "Christian" rightists who plot to kill abortion doctors. I support the same approach to jihadist Muslim groups.
See, we're not so different you and I.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:01pm
Posted by winyahn at 11/11/2009 @ 7:54pm
Hasan is known to have attended the Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, lead by Anwar al-Awlaki, now in Yemen, and to have written letters to Awlaki, who has praised Hasan's attacks on the internet. I don't know what video may be available.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:02pm
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:01pm
I concede.
I do not agree about Fox News, which is the Chamber of Commerce wing of the GOPs network, but nonetheless to my mind does have some value.
But we have some things in common.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:08pm
Iran is willing to do anything to kill yet more Americans, including training and arming AQ and the Taliban.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 7:28pm That's just been bunkered yet again.
"DUBAI (AFP) – A commander of an Al-Qaeda-linked group warned Islam's majority Sunnis that the Shiites and Iran pose a greater "danger" to their religion than Jews or Christians, a US monitoring group said on Tuesday.
http://tinyurl.com/ykoyl2f
The Saudi sponsored Taliban and Iran are enemies. Iran is not giving explosives to anyone. Iranian have not killed any Americans in Afghanistan. AQ's leadership has described Iran as a threat to "Islam much bigger than that from Jews and Christians."
"including getting funded by the CIA during the Reagan administration and working with Iran to carry out terror strikes on America."
Please tell me you're not another one of these lunatic 911 truthers?
America supports terror groups in Iran which hate the current regime in Tehran and some are are AQ affiliated.
Most Sunni terror groups are called AQ-affiliated, but if there is no business card or stamp on your hand that clearly identifies you with AQ, then how do you know that Iran supports AQ?. It's been proven that Iran had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks. The Revolutionary Guards Corps are enemies of Al Qaeda. The 911 Commission Report stated that Iran did not know that AQ were planning future attacks abroad, let alone America. Iran played no role in transporting them abroad let alone harbouring them.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:13pm
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 7:58pm
I'm not a Republican. I support plenty of liberal positions, hardly a radical.
And I'm not an Islamophobe. I know I'm not because I routinely argue against universal statements about Muslims. i watched Bill O'Reilly condemn Pat Robertson (who I detest) tonight for making anti-Muslim statements. I agreed with O'Reilly.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:14pm
Continued....
Iran has never funded and supported Al Qaeda. AQ terrorists have never been trained in the use of explosives against America by Iran.
I know your recovering from recent psychotic episodes rightwingnutcas, but perhaps it's best you stop posting these lunatic rants until your doctor says it's safe for you to do so.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:15pm
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 7:38pm
Then, we agree. There's violent, criminal Muslims. But there's also violent, criminal Christians. Same goes for any other group, whether right, left, or whatever. As long as police forces are going after these people because they are murderers, I'm with you.
Where I take issue is when it moves from the lunatic fringe, which is admittedly bigger in Islam at the moment, to all Muslims based on lame-assed arguments on reading Islamic scripture, references to dhimmitude and history. If you go that route (and you seem to be indicating that you aren't) then you have to apply the same standard to Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism or whatever other religion you care to name.
If this is truly the case for you, then I take back the Islamophobe comment. It may apply to others here, but it does not apply to you, and I was wrong to say it.
Posted by srjenkins at 11/11/2009 @ 8:15pm
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:14pm
Like I said, I think we got off to the wrong start.
I accept that you are not an Islamophobe or a racist.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:17pm
Abbas has done more to push the peace process than anyone before him including anyone who has served in Israel. If you remember correctly it's him who kept peace while Israel was bombing Gaza. You're comment is so far from reality it's ludicrous. Just admit that you dislike anyone Muslim and stop trying to tightrope walk between sounding politically correct and sounding like you want to kill every Muslim that walks.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 5:35pm
Take your head out of the sand. I have posted numerous comments by Abbas that he has made just in the past year that are identical to Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel. He speaks one thing to the western media and speaks just like Arafat when speaking to Arabs.
you can even read HR 758 which calls for Abbas to change Fatah's constitution which still calls for the destruction of Israel
110th CONGRESS 1st Session, H. RES. 758
http://tinyurl.com/yep8ek2
Arutz-7, November 12, 2008.
Palestinian Authority Chairman and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas, speaking in Ramallah in memory of his predecessor Yasser Arafat, praised "the path of the shahids [martyrs] -the path we cherish." He added, "It is aimed at upholding the Palestinians' nationalist and sovereign resolutions."
Abbas told thousands at the rally, "The Palestinian leadership will continue to follow Yasser Arafat's path until a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital is established." Arafat carried out or ordered dozens of terrorist attacks before he died four years ago
http://www.likud.nl/extr470.html
Mahmoud Abbas:
"It is not required of Hamas, or of Fatah, or of the Popular Front to recognize Israel."
[Al-Arabiya TV [Dubai] and PATV Oct. 3, 2006]
http://tinyurl.com/y8bmgsu
there's more
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:23pm
Posted by srjenkins at 11/11/2009 @ 8:15pm Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:17pm
While i am not an Islamophobe, I agree with srjenkins that the the "lunatic fringe... is admittedly bigger in Islam at the moment" and that should be taken into consideration by the military and intelligence agencies.
I believe that not doing so, could lead to real Islamophobia in this country, on a level that we, thankfully, have not seen. I'm sure that none of us wants that.
srjenkins i owe you an apology.
I have improperly allowed emotionalism to enter into my posts after the "event" of a few days ago.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:27pm
Take your head out of the sand. I have posted numerous comments by Abbas that he has made just in the past year that are identical to Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel.
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:23pm
And yet, in spite of his rhetoric, he still took all his ordes from Tel Aviv.
You ever heard of that saying about a sucker being born every minute. You must have been the one when you popped out.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:28pm
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:17pm
Same goes for you. Wrong start.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:29pm
"I know your recovering from recent psychotic episodes rightwingnutcas, but perhaps it's best you stop posting these lunatic rants until your doctor says it's safe for you to do so."
In other words, all the evidence is on my side, so you have no choice but to resort to personal attacks.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 8:30pm
During the initial assault against the Taliban following 9/11, Special Forces found Iranian assassins operating against us, and by late 2007, there was abundant public testimony about Iran's activities in Afghanistan.
Former White House counter--terrorism official Richard Clarke pointed out in the summer of 2007 that the Taliban were using heavy arms, C-4 explosives, and advanced roadside bombs. "It is inconceivable," he said, "that it is anyone other than the Iranian government that's doing it."
Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said at the same time, "There's irrefutable evidence the Iranians are now doing this. It's certainly coming from the government of Iran."
General Dan McNeill, the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, announced that "the Iranian military was involved in a shipment of sophisticated explosive devices intercepted [in September 2007] . . . in western Afghanistan." http://tinyurl.com/y93hj2y
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 8:34pm
"The Taliban jihadists (armed and trained with explosives by Tehran) are rapists and sexual predators who pour acid onto the faces of little girls for going to school, bomb grade schools with poison gas, crush gays with huge stone walls, behead apostates, and stone women to death.
The Iranian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who stone adulterers to death, saw off the limbs of criminals, hang gays, exterminate Baha'is, and light people on fire for questioning the Supreme Leader.
The Palestinian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who torture gays to death, crucify thieves, sexually assault Israeli women as a means of resistance, behead apostates, and stone adulterers to death."
So what do liberals like so much about the jihadists?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 8:37pm
And I'm not an Islamophobe. I know I'm not because I routinely argue against universal statements about Muslims. i watched Bill O'Reilly condemn Pat Robertson (who I detest) tonight for making anti-Muslim statements. I agreed with O'Reilly.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:14pm
No surprise that I agree with Pat Robertson and disagree with O'Reilly (whom I seldom aggree with).
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:40pm
So what's reason to deal with Abbas if he can't even get rid of Hamas and have all Palestinians under his control? Abbas better convince all Arabs that they have to recognize Israel first according to the UN resolution that created a Jewish state and Arab atate...
Posted by teasethegeese at 11/11/2009 @ 8:47pm
In other words, all the evidence is on my side, so you have no choice but to resort to personal attacks.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 8:30p
What evidence? You have simply resorted to deranged diatribes that ignore all reality and dismiss news reports that don't agree with your conspiracy theories.
There is no evidence whatsoever that:
1. Iran had any involvement with the 9/11 attacks 2. Iran supports or ever supoprted Al Qaeda 3. Iran supports the Taliban 4. Iran is any threat the lives and freedoms of Americans. 5. That Iran have killed Americans.
Up until 2 weeks ago, you agreed with all of these facts and have done a 180 flip. You even admit that Al Qaeda hate the leadership in Tehran.
So what evidence in on your side other than a suggestion that maybe Iran clamped down on Al Qaeda cells in Iran after 911, the same way the US did?
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:48pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:40pm
While I do think that there are Koranic problems with Islam, which are not paralelled by NT Christianity or non-orthodox rabbinical Judaism, which have begun to be addressed by intellectuals like Ayaan Ali, anti-Muslim statements by the likes of Robertson are not conducive to moderation. They invite hatred from both sides.
Not to mention Robertson's cynical and venal support of murderers like Charles Taylor in Sierra Leone and Liberia.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:50pm
No surprise that I agree with Pat Robertson and disagree with O'Reilly (whom I seldom aggree with).
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:40pm
No, it's not surprising at all.
Pat Robertson is a fraud and a cynical charlatan, so you obviously have a great deal in common with him.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 8:53pm
"What evidence?"
http://tinyurl.com/y93hj2y
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 9:18pm
Not to mention Robertson's cynical and venal support of murderers like Charles Taylor in Sierra Leone and Liberia.
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:50pm
you seem to have left out Taylor's close friend and defender-Rev Jesse Jackson
http://www.theperspective.org/jackson.html
Read more about how Taylor would not have survived his 1st year in office without the friendship of Jackson and Jackson's efforts to build a relationship between then President Clinton and Taylor
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=17061
http://www.theperspective.org/africaguru.html
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 9:25pm
www.payvand.com/news/07/jan/1265.html
http://tinyurl.com/ybqqjv2
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 9:28pm
http://tinyurl.com/y93hj2y
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 9:18pm
Oh rightwingnutcase, are you for real? I asked for evidence, not a link to a tabloid.
This is truly hilarious for a number of reasons.
A few posts ago, you said:
"The neocons are soft Commies who advocate endless worldwide revolution from above. They have betrayed America."
So here you are you citing an article by a neocon from a neocon web site. Michael Ledeen is a self proclainmed necon and yet you are citing someone who has betrayed America?
Have you totally lost your mind?
Here's something even funnier. The author of that piece, Michael Ledeen has demnstated his grasp of reality, having reported that Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was dead on at least 3 occasions,
"BREAKING NEWS --Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's Supreme Leader, is dead." Michael Ledeen of National Review & American Enterprise Institute, writing in "Pajamas Media," January 4, 2007:
"Khamenei addressed hundreds of citizens of Qom, a holy city 80 miles south of Tehran, who gathered outside his residence in the city center." Associated Press, January 7, 2007 -- 3 days later:
"Khamenei Said to be in Coma"
"Khamenei has had previous medical emergencies in the past, and recovered, but the source is excellent . . . Here is what he/she says: "Yesterday afternoon at 2.15PM local time, Khamenei collapsed and was taken to his special clinic. Nobody -- except his son and the doctors -- has since been allowed to get near him. His official, but secret, status is: 'in the hands of the gods'. . . ."
Michael Ledeen of National Review & American Enterprise Institute, writing in "Pajamas Media," October 13, 2009:
Mind you, this explains why your posts have become so over the top and deranged. Your reading material has fried our brain
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 9:46pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 9:25pm
I am no fan of Jesse Jackson or Pat Robertson
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 9:52pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:23pm
Yet with his politics he has helped to secure more lasting peace out of the West Bank than ever before. Say what you want about his words. But his actions speak volumes and he has gotten control of the West Bank and brought it to peace with Israel.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 9:58pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 9:28pm
"www.payvand.com/news/07/jan/1265.html"
An op-ed written without citing any source,s but importantly concudes that: "Insurgent fighters in Afghanistan traditionally opposed to working with Iran may have also changed their policy in light of the mutual short-term interest of removing U.S. and Western influence from the country."
So the best this article can say is that it is possible insurgents in Afghanistan may have turned to Tehran, but can;t say for sure.
"http://tinyurl.com/ybqqjv2"
Another article from the Neocon mother ship web site, the Weekly Standard.
Interesting however that the 9/11 Commission's assertion that there was "strong" the evidence, provided by al Qaeda operatives in U.S. custody.
Of course, we know that evidence was tortured out of those people. The head of the 911 Commission later sad that the Report was tainted by testimony acquired through torture.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 9:58pm
Posted by antisocialist at 11/11/2009 @ 9:25pm
Why is it you seem to think that if you post a comment by a liberal agreeing with the conservative you support that is the trump card. Robertson and Jackson both are of the same ilk and both of them are detestable. So it doesn't matter if Jackson supported it in any way. Robertson is still just as wrong as before you posted that useless bit of information.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 10:00pm
Yet with his politics he has helped to secure more lasting peace out of the West Bank than ever before. S
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 11/11/2009 @ 9:58pm
What lasting peace? More and more Palestinians are being driven off their land and more and more settlements are being build.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 10:00pm
Major Hasan is the major story with lots of Politically Incorrect angles....and affects our military, and is of interest to all our veterans (bless them)!
Why is there not even one thread by The Nation on its Blog Home Page that shows 24 threads?
The Koran is the problem and will always be the problem...............some minority number of Muslims will always be led into radicalism since this `Book' gives sustenance.
(I'm open to legislatively discriminating against, as in forbidding, this as well as any other religion whose `Books' call for subjugation and/or slaughter of non-believers.)
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 10:15pm
Hey everyone. Today was Veteran's Day. did anyone know that?
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 10:28pm
Hey everyone. Today was Veteran's Day. did anyone know that?
Posted by gunslinger1 at 11/11/2009 @ 10:28pm
The people important to the future of our country knew that! The Nation is.....questionable!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 10:38pm
The people important to the future of our country knew that! The Nation is.....questionable!
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 10:38pm
Yeah, we know who the important people are. They're the ones who send troops off to die in unnecessary wars of choice.
Posted by Shingo at 11/11/2009 @ 10:55pm
Posted by gangpapist at 11/11/2009 @ 8:27pm
Hey, we've all been there. For my part, it's all water under the bridge.
Posted by srjenkins at 11/11/2009 @ 11:01pm
(I'm open to legislatively discriminating against, as in forbidding, this as well as any other religion whose `Books' call for subjugation and/or slaughter of non-believers.)
Posted by Happy at 11/11/2009 @ 10:15pm
Sure Happy, your patriotism is heartfelt, indeed.
Are you also open to discriminating against the followers of the Talmudic bigotry and maybe those who are driven to spy on the USA and sell our top secrets to our enemies?
How about discriminating against all American Jews who served in the Israeli army? Was it the Israeli army that attacked the USS Liberty Navy ship, murdered and wounded over 200 American sailors?
Posted by CripThink at 11/11/2009 @ 11:09pm
What should Obama do? Like Clinton, freeze the Israeli assets around the world and more, establish a couple of military bases in surrounding Arab countries like Jordan, Lebanon, and maybe even Egypt. The plain message: "we mean business".
you must be out of your mind. America does not rule the world. bases in Arab countries? just preposterous. Clinton freeze Israeli assets? when did that happen?
Posted by emile duBois at 11/11/2009 @ 11:14pm
Benjamin Netanyahu has an IQ of 180. He's smarter than all you loons here at the Nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/11/2009 @ 1:48pm
it's not the size of the asshole, but the shit that comes out of it that counts.
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/12/2009 @ 12:55am
it's not the size of the asshole, but the shit that comes out of it that counts.
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/12/2009 @ 12:55am
Wonderfully put as always frosty. Even with an IQ of 180, Netanyahu is still a religious nut and profoundly ignorant.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 01:05am
Posted by frosty zoom at 11/12/2009 @ 12:55am
I bet it was just me, but when I read this post, I immediately thought of this...
http://twitter.com/Shitmydadsays
Posted by srjenkins at 11/12/2009 @ 07:28am
"I hope that ALL of The Nation's contributors and readers can take a minute today to reflect on the sacrifices and patriotism of everone who has served our proud country since the days of the Continental Army to the present. Without their service and sacrifice America would not be the superpower it is today. In fact, we may be under foreign rule and probably living as either socialists or communists if not for the efforts of the Greatest Generation who fought WWII. From the battles for our independence to the terrorist movement which once again reared it's ugly head at Fort Hood, our marines, soldiers, sailors, airmen, guardsmen, coast guard and reserves have preserved our way of life and the freedoms we so cherish."
Why is it the uneducated always post things like this?
Posted by jobbo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:59am
Why is it the uneducated always post things like this?
Posted by jobbo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:59am
why is it that ungrateful, and liberty hating leftists post things like this?
Posted by antisocialist at 11/12/2009 @ 12:20pm
"Yeah, we know who the important people are. They're the ones who send troops off to die in unnecessary wars of choice."
Shingo, we could have completely eliminated the Taliban, AQ, and the Iranian government and replaced them with pro-American regimes without any US casualties.
I agree that it's a shame the neocons sacrificed thousands of our troops needlessly instead.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 3:38pm
Shingo, we could have completely eliminated the Taliban, AQ, and the Iranian government and replaced them with pro-American regimes without any US casualties.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 3:38pm
Impossible. We've tried getting rid of the Taliban and not onyl are we failing, but we are incurring many casualties.
Pro American regimes have proven to be a disaster for democracy and American security.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 4:29pm
Why is it the uneducated always post things like this?
Posted by jobbo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:59am
Because they think that draping themselves in the American flag and seizing the high ground gives the moral infallibility and excuses then from supporting policies that sent these people off to get killed.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 4:36pm
"Impossible. We've tried getting rid of the Taliban and not onyl are we failing, but we are incurring many casualties."
Shingo, that's because Bush was more concerned with building schools and hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan, even if it meant the needless sacrifice of thousands of Americans to barbaric jihadists, then he was with protecting American lives from those who sought to take them in the name of Allah.
We could have destroyed the Taliban and AQ from the air without warning in their entirety if Bush had really been concerned about destroying AQ.
"Pro American regimes have proven to be a disaster for democracy and American security."
I rather liked the Shah compared to the pedophiles and child molesters and rapists and war criminals and barbarians and jihadists and mass murderers that currently run Iran.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 5:25pm
Former White House counter--terrorism official Richard Clarke pointed out in the summer of 2007..."
While I respect Clarke, C4 is readily available and there is no reason to suspect Iran is the only possible supplier.
Advanced roadside bombs were blamed on Iran in the Iraq, until it was discovered that a) many were locally made and b) that only 1% of weapons seized were of Iranian origin.
"Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said at the same time, "There's irrefutable evidence the Iranians are now doing this. It's certainly coming from the government of Iran." "
Burns is a neocon and an anti Iranian pro bomb zealout. If there was irrefutable evidence they would have shown it to us.
"General Dan McNeill, the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, announced that "the Iranian military was involved in a shipment of sophisticated explosive devices intercepted [in September 2007] . . . in western Afghanistan."
Another BS neocon piece written by proven liar and necon, Michael Ledeen, from the neocon Weekly Standard.
Fail on both counts.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 5:26pm
"The Iranian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who stone adulterers to death, saw off the limbs of criminals, hang gays, exterminate Baha'is, and light people on fire for questioning the Supreme Leader."
That's simply Islamophobic BS.
"The Palestinian jihadists are rapists and sexual predators who torture gays to death, crucify thieves, sexually assault Israeli women as a means of resistance, behead apostates, and stone adulterers to death."
More Islamophobic BS. Israel is the sexual slavery capital of the world.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 5:31pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 5:25pm
Schools or no schools, there is no way to replace a government or destroy an enemy without killing civilians. No one in history has ever been able to achieve this without many innocents being killed.
Furthermore, invasions and attacks on other countries create enemies. There were no jihadists in Iraq until we invaded. There is no way we could have destroyed the Taliban and AQ from the air. There is no way to destroy any enemy from the air.
"I rather liked the Shah compared to the pedophiles and child molesters and rapists and war criminals and barbarians and jihadists and mass murderers that currently run Iran."
The Shah was a rapists and war criminals and mass murderer too, but seeing as you are overcome with bloodlust, I can see why you have a soft spot for him. He might have been a pedophile himself, who knows?
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 5:44pm
"Schools or no schools, there is no way to replace a government or destroy an enemy without killing civilians"
Duh.
We have to accept that civilians will die. No Americans need die, however.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 5:51pm
"The Shah was a rapists and war criminals and mass murderer too,"
What wars did he start?
"but seeing as you are overcome with bloodlust, I can see why you have a soft spot for him. He might have been a pedophile himself, who knows?"
I doubt it. He was a decent well-meaning family man with values.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 5:54pm
We have to accept that civilians will die. No Americans need die, however.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 5:51pm
But as I have explained, there is no way to destroy the Taliban or Al Qaeda or Iran's leadership from the air. Ground troops are always needed and that's when Americans get killed.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 6:15pm
"What wars did he start?"
Just as many as the current Iranian leadership started. None.
"I doubt it. He was a decent well-meaning family man with values."
Only if you consider a mass murderer to be a decent well-meaning family man with values.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 6:18pm
The current government of Iran has committed acts of war against France, America, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, United Kingdom, and other countries. It also unilaterally invaded Iraq in violation of international law as an act of naked aggression, killing more than a million people.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 8:40pm
Iran has not attacked anyone or startd any wars in over 300 years.
It was was attacked by Iran which led to a decade long war. Iraq started the war and did so with US backing.
"The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes and fears of Shia insurgency among Iraq's long-suppressed Shia majority influenced by the Iranian Revolution. Although Iraq hoped to take advantage of revolutionary chaos in Iran and attacked without formal warning, they made only limited progress into Iran and within several months were repelled by the Iranians who regained virtually all lost territory by June, 1982. For the next six years, Iran was on the offensive.[15] Despite calls for a ceasefire by the United Nations Security Council, hostilities continued until 20 August, 1988. The last prisoners of war were exchanged in 2003.[15][16]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War
"Iraq launched a full-scale invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980. On 22 September 1980, the Iraqi air force attacked Iran, attacking ten airfields inside Iran, but failed to achieve their objective of destroying the Iranian air force on the ground.[27] The next day Iraq initiated a ground invasion of Iran along a front measuring 644 kilometres, in three simultaneous thrusts.[27] "
Iran has never invaded Iraq.
Michael Ledeen is a neocon. The Weekly Standard is a neocon publication, who's editor, was the father of the neocons. You yourself said that neocons are traitors tot America, Stop reading rubbish written by traitors to America.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 10:23pm
Shingo, I've quoted that same article to demonstrate that Iran started the war. You just carefully cherry-picked selective quotes about the Iraqi response to Iranian terrorism, death threats, and repeated attempts to overthrow Saddam. You also omitted that while this was how Iran started the war, Iran did invade Iraq in 1983.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 10:29pm
As far as neocons betraying America, they saved the lives of millions of Iraqis and Afghans under Bush, and an invasion of Iran in 1979 would have saved millions of lives as well. But they did lie when they claimed that we had to sacrifice 5,000 American soldiers for our self-defense. The only justification for Bush's policy is helping people in other countries, but then why Bush didn't invade Sudan, the Congo, Zimbabwe, and North Korea would be a mystery save for political pragmatism.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 10:35pm
"Shingo, I've quoted that same article to demonstrate that Iran started the war."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 10:29pm
Again.
"The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes and fears of Shia insurgency among Iraq's long-suppressed Shia majority influenced by the Iranian Revolution."
So you have been mying on 2 counts. first, you claimed that Iran started the war, which is false.
Secondly, you said that Iran was unprovoked, which is also false.
The so called "Iranian terrorism and death threats" was never proven, unless Saddam has suddenly become your hero.
There was no mention about Iran invading Iraq in 1983, only Iraq's pullback. The war continued for a decade.
Stop lying and stop reading necon propaganda. One minute you call neocons traitors to American, the next you are citing them as sources. Do you suddenly respect traitors?
Your brain is turning to mush.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:09pm
As far as neocons betraying America, they saved the lives of millions of Iraqis and Afghans under Bush,
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 10:35pm
I see, so their traitors who betrayed American,. but you admire them.
There were no million to save in Iraq and Afghanistan, becasue millions were never at risk in Iraqis and Afghanistan. Even then, you just said you don;t care about the lives of Iraqis. Afghans or Iranians.
More evidence of phsychosis.
The invasion of Iraq cost 1.2 million lives, so a 1979 invasion fo Iran would have cost just as many.
Bush couldn't possibly have invaded Sudan, the Congo, Zimbabwe, and North Korea. The military can't even deal with a country of 25 million people.
Your delusional and mentally unstable. Are you sure you haven't had a mental breakdown?
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:14pm
BTW.
From that Wikipedia entry.
"Iraq retreats but the war continues"
"1983–1985: Further Iranian offensives fail to break strategic stalemate"
This proves that the countries were at war since the Iraqi invasion and that there was no unilateral, unprovoked invasion by Iran into Iraq.
Sorry, but those are the facts. Any notion of an Iranian invasion is a figment of your imagination.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:18pm
"Even then, you just said you don;t care about the lives of Iraqis. Afghans or Iranians."
I did?
Wow, what a cruel, hard-hearted bigot I must be.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:26pm
Everything else you said was too ridiculous to waste time responding to.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:27pm
Your wikipedia entry even quotes Saddam boasting that he was going to invade Iran as early as 1980.
"Saddam Hussein was keenly interested in elevating Iraq to a strong regional power. A successful invasion of Iran would enlarge Iraq's oil reserves and make Iraq the dominant power in the Persian Gulf region.
On several occasions Saddam alluded to the Islamic conquest of Iran in propagating his position against Iran. For example, on 2 April 1980, half a year before the outbreak of the war, in a visit by Saddam to al-Mustansiriyyah University in Baghdad, drawing parallels with the 7th century defeat of Persia in the Battle of al-Qādisiyyah, he announced:
"In your name, brothers, and on behalf of the Iraqis and Arabs everywhere we tell those Persian cowards and dwarfs who try to avenge Al-Qadisiyah that the spirit of Al-Qadisiyah as well as the blood and honor of the people of Al-Qadisiyah who carried the message on their spearheads are greater than their attempts."[20]"
Iraq started the war believing that Sunnis of Iran would join the opposing forces, failing to fully appreciate the power of Iranian nationalism over historically clan-centered differences, and the power of Iranian government control of the press. Few of the ethnic Arabs of Khuzestan or Sunnis of Iran collaborated with Iraqis.[citation needed]
Iran's embassy in London was attacked by Iraqi-sponsored terrorist forces a few months prior to the war in 1980, in what came to be known as the Iranian Embassy Siege.[23]
The UN Secretary General report dated 9 December 1991 (S/23273)[clarification needed] explicitly cites "Iraq's aggression against Iran" in starting the war and breaching International security and peace.[24]"
It was Iraqi-sponsored terrorist forces that that attacked the Iranian Embassy.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:28pm
Everything else you said was too ridiculous to waste time responding to.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:27pm
I know, it's hard when you lose an argument. Especially when you're contradicting yourself by supporting the Iraq one minute to opposing it the next, or opposing attacks on Iran, eh supporting them.
The fact is that you are seeing clues to your theories where none exist. If you are going to argue that black is white and that down is up, then you have to come better prepared. Reading a lying necon like Michael Ledeen is only going to mess with your head.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:35pm
Wow, what a cruel, hard-hearted bigot I must be.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:26pm
Yeah, even I was amazed at the extent of it.
Posted by Shingo at 11/12/2009 @ 11:37pm
John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt disagree:
"...Iraq finally got the Shah to stop meddling with the Kurds in 1975, but only by agreeing to cede half of the Shatt al-Arab waterway to Iran, a concession that underscored Iraq's weakness at the time.
Given this history of animosity, it is not surprising that Saddam welcomed the Shah's ouster in 1979. Indeed, Iraq went to considerable lengths to foster good relations with Iran's revolutionary leadership. Saddam did not try to exploit the turmoil in Iran to gain strategic advantage over his neighbor and made no attempt to reverse his earlier concessions, even though Iran did not fully comply with the terms of the 1975 agreement. The Ayatollah Khomeini, on the other hand, was determined to extend his revolution across the Islamic world, starting with Iraq. By late 1979, Tehran was pushing hard to get the Kurdish and Shi'ite populations in Iraq to revolt and topple Saddam, and Iranian operatives were actively trying to assassinate senior Iraqi officials. Border clashes became increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran's instigation.
Facing a grave threat to his regime but aware that Iran's military readiness had been temporarily disrupted by the revolution, Saddam launched a limited war against his bitter foe on September 22, 1980. His principal aim was to capture a large slice of territory along the Iraq-Iran border, not to conquer Iran or topple Khomeini. "The war began," as Efraim Karsh writes, "because the weaker state, Iraq, attempted to resist the hegemonic aspirations of its stronger neighbor, Iran, to reshape the regional status quo according to its own image."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:42pm
How could I not care about the lives of other human beings?
My point is just that Bush left Africans, Afghans, and Iraqis better off, but Americans worse off. I don't have all the answers. I don't know if that makes Bush's policy good or bad.
I do know that Obama shouldn't bow to King Abdullah.
Besides, it's almost impossible to hate Iranians. They're some of the sweetest and friendliest and most intelligent people in the world, and some of the truest friends of America. The truth is that Iran's population is more pro-American than the populations of European countries.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/12/2009 @ 11:59pm
"John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt disagree:"
So are you now dissavowing your Wikipedia link that you used to try and prove your theory?
In any case, Mearsheimer and Walt's thesis doesn't hold up. if Iraq went to considerable lengths to foster good relations with Iran's revolutionary leadership, then why did Iraqi-sponsored terrorist forces attack Iran's embassy in London in 1980?
Mearsheimer and Walt also point out that border clashes became increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran's instigation, so Iraq had decided by then to attack Iran and star a decade long war.
The rest of Mearsheimer and Walt's thesis goes on to confirm that Saddam launched a war against Iran in 1980, so there is no contradiction.
Iraq started the war and Iran responded.
Posted by Shingo at 11/13/2009 @ 12:06am
"My point is just that Bush left Africans, Afghans, and Iraqis better off..."
How do you come to that conclusion, when the war killed 1.2 million Iraqis and created 4-5 million Iraqi refugees?
"I do know that Obama shouldn't bow to King Abdullah."
Should he have kissed him and held his hand instead?
"Besides, it's almost impossible to hate Iranians."
If that's what you feel, then how can you support the plan to bomb the hell out of them?
Posted by Shingo at 11/13/2009 @ 12:10am
ABBAS IS A PUPPET OF US AND ISRAEL. SO IT HE RESIGN, IT WILL HELP THE PALESTINIAN FREEDOM STRUGGLE .HIS RESIGNATION WILL ONLY HURT US AND ISRAEL.WHAT HE GAINED AFTER NUMEROUS PEACE TALKS? NOTHING EXCEPT MORE ISRAELI AGGRESSION AND LAND GRABS.HE IS A TRAITOR.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/13/2009 @ 10:31am
NUTCASE, BECAUSE OF YOUR LIES, THE NATION READERS ARE GETTING MORE CHANCES TO KNOW ABOUT MIDDLE EAST POLITICS. DID YOU TAUGHT BUSH AND BLAIR, THE ART OF LYING?
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/13/2009 @ 10:38am
As long as you're regarding Wikipedia as a legitimate academic source, nutcase,(and it isn't), maybe you should look at the page on the Iranian military which states Iran hasn't launched any wars of choice in modern history.
Posted by nkurland at 11/13/2009 @ 12:42pm
"If that's what you feel, then how can you support the plan to bomb the hell out of them?"
Bombing the hell out of Iran may not be good for them, but invading and occupying their country to destroy the militant totalitarian theocracy run by rapists of nine-year old girls who stone adulterers to death and light people on fire for questioning the Supreme Leader that has killed or aided the killing of thousands of Americans would certainly save many Iranian lives.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/13/2009 @ 4:16pm
The government of Iran is run by criminally insane jihadist fanatics who rape men, women, and children alike and saw off the limbs of criminals. They torture people with electric drills, light them on fire, stone them to death, behead them, and crucify them. They molest little children. They chant over and over again repeatedly every Friday night before crowds that cheer and repeat after them about their desire to kill many more Americans in addition to the thousands of Americans they've already massacred. They were involved in 9/11. They attacked Saudi Arabia. They invaded Iraq. They launched a war of aggression that killed more than a million people. They've killed 175,000 Iranians since 1979. They've threatened to develop nuclear weapons, use them on Israel, and carry out a new Holocaust and genocide against the Jewish people. They fund, arm, and train with explosives the vile subhuman inhuman creatures that call themselves the Taliban who gas little girls for going to school, bomb grade schools, pour acid in the faces of women, and crush gays with huge stone walls. They openly harbor and train and arm and fund AQ. They boastfully harbor more AQ operatives than any other country. They continue to support all that's left of AQ after the Afghan invasion. They audaciously have been caught aiding and abetting terrorist cells throughout Europe. They amazingly have attempted assassinations worldwide. They are to Islamic terrorism what Germany once was to Nazism. They are the chief state sponsor of terror in the world. They are rabidly anti-Semitic. They deny the Holocaust. They state every day that they are planning future terrorist attacks on America. But, if you support military action against them, you must hate Iranians.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/13/2009 @ 4:36pm
"Mearsheimer and Walt also point out that border clashes became increasingly frequent by April 1980, largely at Iran's instigation, so Iraq had decided by then"
So, even though Iran instigated the war, it was still Iraq's fault?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/13/2009 @ 4:42pm
ISRAEL IS A RACIST COUNTRY. IT WAS BUILT ON LIES ON ARAB LAND. THEY STOLE PALESTINIAN LAND AND FORCEFULLY OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN HOUSES.THERE OVER 7000 PALESTINIANS IN ISRAELI JAILS INCLUDING VERY ELDERLY PEOPLE AND VERY YOUNG.ISRAEL REFUSED WATER ,ELECTRICITY ,FOOD AND MEDICINES FOR PALESTINIANS. ISRAEL USED PHOSPHOROUS BOMBS AND DEPLETED URANIUM ARMS ON PALESTINIANS. ISRAEL BOMBED RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES , MOSQUES, HOSPITALS AND SCHOOLS, INCLUDING ONE RUN BY AN UN ORGANISATION. ISRAEL ARRESTED AND STOLE THE ORGANS OF THE PALESTINIANS. THIS POSTING IS DEDICATED TO NUTCASE. VISIT.www.gilad.co.uk, www.informationclearinghouse.com,and watch vedeos of Gilad Atzmon's videos on youtube. NUTCASE, ISRAEL AND ITS ZIONISTS FRIENDS DELIBERATELY FORGET IT'S HISTORY.And remember I am not anti-Jew.BUT I BELIEVE, KEEPING SILENCE AGAINST A CRIME IS A CRIME. AS A PROPAGANDIST OF ISRAEL YOU ARE FAILING MISERABLY.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/14/2009 @ 10:33am
The Iranian government has killed thousands of Americans. Americans at home, and, especially, who travel abroad are at mortal risk of being killed in terror attacks financed by Tehran, whose considerable resources used to train and arm militants are necessary to carry out serious attacks.
Why negotiate with these criminal thugs? Their murder of our citizens is not at all a matter to be regarded as a reasonable disagreement to be debated. The Iranian regime must stop all support for terrorism, or be militarily rendered non-threatening.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/14/2009 @ 1:18pm
Why negotiate with these criminal thugs?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/14/2009 @ 1:18pm
Apart from the obvious lies and distortions i your post, we have always negotiated with thugs. The surge involved no onyl negotiate with these criminal thugs, but bribing them too.
And the the Iranian regime must stop all support for terrorism, shouldn't we stop too?
"So, even though Iran instigated the war, it was still Iraq's fault?"
Iran didn't instigated the war, Iraq did.
Posted by Shingo at 11/15/2009 @ 7:19pm
The government of Iran is run by criminally insane jihadist fanatics who rape men, women, and children alike and saw off the limbs of criminals. They torture people with electric drills, light them on fire, stone them to death, behead them, and crucify them.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/13/2009 @ 4:36pm
You are confusing the government of Iran with Sunni insurgents in Iraq.
Furthermore, they are not criminally insane at all. in fact, they repeatedly demonstrate caution and restraint. they have not invaded or attacked anyone in 300 years and are our greatest allies in the region.
http://tinyurl.com/y95ulaw
"Her acquaintance with the Iranians deepened after the attacks of September 11, 2001, when she worked at the National Security Council in the unit that advises the president on Iran, Afghanistan and the Gulf states. She speaks of impressive cooperation with the Iranians, leading to the capture and expulsion of 200 Al-Qaida members from their country. According to Mann Leverett, a directive from Tehran ordering the Iranian militias in Afghanistan to join a local force established by the United States spared the Americans the kind of trouble and losses being inflicted by the militias Iran is now funding and training in Iraq.
"I was deeply impressed," she said, "by the quality of my Iranian interlocutors and the sophisticated manner in which they thought about their country's national interests."
This impression was confirmed by the many meetings she held with Iranian diplomats, officials and intellectuals across the ideological spectrum after her retirement from government service in 2004.
Posted by Shingo at 11/15/2009 @ 7:51pm
"the capture and expulsion of 200 Al-Qaida members from their country. According to Mann Leverett, a directive from Tehran ordering the Iranian militias in Afghanistan to join a local force established by the United States spared the Americans the kind of trouble and losses being inflicted by the militias Iran is now funding and training in Iraq."
So, the Iranian regime has only recently began aggressive support of the Taliban, and as a result has killed less American soldiers in Afghanistan than it was able to, whereas it has helped kill hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Americans in Iraq.
From this you conclude that they "are our greatest allies in the region."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/15/2009 @ 8:32pm
So, the Iranian regime has only recently began aggressive support of the Taliban
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/15/2009 @ 8:32pm
Huh, where does it say anything about Iran supporting the Taliban? The Taliban are heir enemas. They almost went to war with the Taliban after the Taliban killed 10 Iranian politicians.
Those who are supporting the Taliban are our allies yes. Aaudi Arabia, Pakistan and HAmid Karzai, who recently invited Mullah Omar to join his government.
Posted by Shingo at 11/15/2009 @ 10:19pm
More evidence that Iran is a natural ally with regard to the Taliban:
"Despite ongoing concerns over Iran's nuclear program and allegations of arming militants in the region, Gen. David H. Petraeus, commander of U.S. forces in the region, says Washington and Iran could coalesce around stabilizing Afghanistan. Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, echoed the sentiment (PDF) in late January 2009. NATO partners, too, have sought to include Iran in Afghan strategy decisions. German lawmakers have called for the creation of a "contact group" of nations to chart a new regional course. "Such an initiative, that would include Iran, would benefit if it came to direct talks between Washington and Tehran," Andreas Schockenhoff, vice chairman of Germany's Christian Democratic Party, said in a statement reported by German media."
http://www.cfr.org/publication/13578/
It's also been revealed that the Taliban's weapons come from the US, not Iran. http://tinyurl.com/ykez5nr
Posted by Shingo at 11/15/2009 @ 10:57pm
As I've said already:
"Iran is willing to do anything to kill yet more Americans, including training and arming AQ and the Taliban. The Taliban is given explosives by Iran. Iranian assassins kill Americans in Afghanistan. The near entirety of AQ's surviving leadership since the Afghan war is based in Iran.
AQ is also willing to do anything to kill more Americans, including getting funded by the CIA during the Reagan administration and working with Iran to carry out terror strikes on America."
Former White House counter--terrorism official Richard Clarke pointed out in the summer of 2007 that the Taliban were using heavy arms, C-4 explosives, and advanced roadside bombs. "It is inconceivable," he said, "that it is anyone other than the Iranian government that's doing it."
Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns said at the same time, "There's irrefutable evidence the Iranians are now doing this. It's certainly coming from the government of Iran."
General Dan McNeill, the commander of NATO forces in Afghanistan, announced that "the Iranian military was involved in a shipment of sophisticated explosive devices intercepted [in September 2007] . . . in western Afghanistan." http://tinyurl.com/y93hj2y
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/15/2009 @ 11:47pm
"You are confusing the government of Iran with Sunni insurgents in Iraq."
Who are given their weapons by Iran.
Iran's government does commit the sorts of crimes described above, according to any reputable source you'd care to mention.
"Furthermore, they are not criminally insane at all. in fact, they repeatedly demonstrate caution and restraint"
The Iranian government has carried out an international series of assassinations and terrorist activities against Americans, Israelis, and Westerners. They've aided the killing of or killed thousands of our citizens. They've aided and attempted to set up terrorist sleeper cells in Europe. They invaded Iraq. Vowing to fight to the last Iranian, they sacrificed a million of their people in suicidal "human wave" attacks in a futile attempt to export their jihadist revolution to that country. They've vowed to develop nuclear weapons and threatened to use them on Israel. They've killed hundreds of American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. They chant every day about their desire to kill more Americans and openly admit that they are planning future terror attacks on America. They were involved in 9/11. They've blown up buildings in Saudi Arabia. They've stated they intend to invade Bahrain very shortly from now and they've also threatened to invade Saudi Arabia. After 9/11, they cheered for AQ and the Taliban fighters in Afghanistan; they armed, trained, funded, and harbored them. They harbor more AQ than any other country. They chant "Death to America!" over and over again every Friday night. They are the most active state sponsor of terrorism.
In short, they've taken acts of war against the most powerful country in the world-- and they've gotten away with it.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 12:01am
Hamid Karzai appeases the Taliban. Saudi Arabia does not give them any military or financial support. Pakistan mostly appeases the Taliban as well, though some elements of their military overlook them due to sympathy.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 12:05am
As I've said already Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/15/2009 @ 11:47pm
I know you've said it already and I've corrected you every time.
There's no point citing the article by a lying neocon (your words) like Ledeen and expecting it to hold up.
Remember, Ledeen reported 3 times that Khomeni was dead, so he is completely discredited and has no idea about reality.
You called the neocons liars and traitors, yet you are citing a necon writing for a neocon publication.
Is this some sort of game?
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 12:48am
"Iran's government does commit the sorts of crimes described above, according to any reputable source you'd care to mention." Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 12:01am Then link to one that is not the weekly Standard. "The Iranian government has carried out an international series of assassinations and terrorist activities against Americans, Israelis, and Westerners. " Name one and a link. No, they haven't killed any our citizens They've had no part in any terrorist sleeper cells in Europe. They never invaded Iraq. Even your own sources prove they didn't. They vowed to fight to the last Iranian after Iraq attacked them and started a decade long war. They should be commended for that. They've never vowed to develop nuclear weapons. In fact, you will never be able to cite a statement that they vowed to develop nuclear weapons.
They never threatened to use what they were never going to develop on Israel. They haven't killed any American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact, they've been Americas greatest ally in the region. They haven't admitted to any plans to attack America. The 911 Commission report proves they were not involved in 9/11. They haven't blown up any buildings in Saudi Arabia. They've never stated they intend to invade Bahrain and never threatened to invade Saudi Arabia. If that were true, you would have provided the evidence. They never cheered for AQ after 911. In fact, 1 million Iranian marched in sympathy for the victims. Even Ahamdinejad expressed sorrow for the tragedy. They helped us overthrow Taliban fighters in Afghanistan, with who they are sworn enemies. They never harbored any AQ, and offered to hand AQ leader they had captive over to us. They don't chanted "Death to America!" and definitely didn't last Friday night
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 01:00am
Hamid Karzai appeases the Taliban. Saudi Arabia does not give them any military or financial support. mostly appeases the Taliban as well, though some elements of their military overlook them due to sympathy.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 12:05am
Karzai is our puppet and is reaching out to the Taliban. The US is also trying to appease the Taliban by appealing to their moderates, the same way the US appeased the Sunni insurgents and Al Qaeda in Iraq.
Pakistan created the Taliban and funds them.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 01:03am
The biggest irony of your accusation of Iran support for Taliban is that Iran is concerned about the efforts of the United States to negotiate with moderate members of the Taliban.
It is the US that is doing deals with the Taliban, not Iran.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 01:06am
NUTCASE. THE KING OF LIARS IS STILL CONTINUING HIS WORKS, BUT IN VAIN. NATION READERS ARE NOT FOOLS.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/16/2009 @ 10:40am
NATION READERS ARE NOT FOOLS.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/16/2009 @ 10:40am
Sadly, some of them are, beginning with nutcase.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 4:27pm
1. The simple truth is that AQ has been virtually eliminated in Afghanistan. AQ was a tiny, primitively armed force of loosely associated Islamists harbored by the governments of Iran and Afghanistan. There are barely any AQ left in Afghanistan. Those AQ terrorists that escaped the American bombardment after 9/11 are being harbored by Iran, which sponsors over 384 individual AQ members including 22 senior leaders and which is funding them, and arming and training them (along with the Taliban) with explosives. The near entirety of AQ is in Iran, and the rest are located almost completely in Pakistan near the Afghan border. Afghanistan was the place that the people who attacked us on 9/11 hid in. It was too devastated to provide any serious military, technological, logistical, or financial support to the jihad. This is why the 9/11 hijackers ended up receiving assistance not from the Taliban that simply allowed them to do as they pleased, but from the Iranian Revolutionary Guards. AQ is only a tiny fraction of the Islamist movement. Islamic jihad is the broader threat to the West and America. The most active state sponsor of terror is (and has been for 30 years) the Islamic Republic of Iran. An invasion of Iran in 1979 would have prevented the Ayatollah from invading secular Iraq to export his jihadist revolution, an effort that killed at least a million people. It would have solved our Afghanistan problem as well, since the USSR would not have invaded it while we occupied its neighbor. More fundamentally, it would have crippled the jihadist movement when it was first starting out, and eliminated most of its military and financial support, both through deterrence and through destroying the state that would ultimately provide most of it. ...
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:06pm
1. ... Eliminating this state support is crucial. As John David Lewis pointed out after 9/11, "the resources required to carry out the attack, especially training given the pilots, were on the scale of that available only to governments." Iran provides support other states never could. This is because most other Middle Eastern countries ruled by child molesters who rape 9-year-old girls, stone adulterers to death, exterminate gays, behead apostates, saw off the limbs of dissidents, and light people on fire for questioning the Supreme Leader were severely impoverished and rendered failed states before radical Islamists were able to conquer them (Afghanistan being the perfect example). However, Iran was a sophisticated, advanced country under the Shah, and remained so when the Mullahs overthrew him. One could argue that Iran is too advanced for its population to embrace the jihad as the state is not their only source of education, whereas the educational system of Afghanistan (not to mention Palestine) had to be altered so that it would no longer produce an endless stream of jihadists. This would be a good reason for the Afghan war. However, the government of Iran should have been destroyed along with the Taliban, as it is the primary sponsor of jihad. Iran and Afghanistan were the only countries whose governments were involved in 9/11. Of them, Iran was by far the greater threat to America, not least because the Taliban were radical nationalists who harbored anti-American terrorists but who did not believe personally in attacking the United States. ....
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:06pm
2. ... . By contrast, the government of Iran has not only involved itself in the murder of thousands of Americans, it has attempted assassinations worldwide, tried to set up terrorist sleeper cells in Europe, and has chanted every Friday night hysterically over and over again the phrase "Death to America!" in order to express its desire to kill many more Americans. It is now developing nuclear weapons, and has threatened to use them on Israel. AQ was nearly obliterated after a few weeks of the Afghan war. Yet, our government has foiled dozens of terror attacks since 9/11 that nearly claimed the lives of thousands of Americans. Dozens of attacks have also been prevented in Europe. Yet, this threat cannot be from AQ. AQ is not the bogeyman we portray it as, but rather one former terrorist organization among many others. The clear solution to crippling the jihad is to take military action against Iran, which would also enable us to turn the tide in Afghanistan. This action would have to destroy the entire Iranian government, or else it would actually strengthen the support for jihad among the Iranian populace.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:07pm
"In fact, 1 million Iranian marched in sympathy for the victims."
Sure. That's because Iranians are not inferior primitive savages, like, say, the people of Palestine.
However, their brutal totalitarian government was involved in the attacks.
"Even Ahamdinejad expressed sorrow for the tragedy."
Really?
It is true that the Iranian Supreme Leader at the time stated that Iran did not support the attacks. If your position is that that PROVES they had nothing to do with it regardless of what the 9/11 Commission says, then please keep in mind that the ONLY government in the Middle East that openly celebrated and cheered for and built memorials honoring the attack was that of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Are you saying Saddam was involved in 9/11?
Odds are, Saddam felt free to cheer for the attacks because he figured everyone would know that he obviously wasn't involved in them. By contrast, the Iranians had to immediately begin defending themselves from charges of involvement that had yet to be made, because they knew they looked guilty and sought to dispel that impression.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:17pm
NATION READERS ARE NOT FOOLS.
Posted by Dastu11 at 11/16/2009 @ 10:40am
I beg to differ.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:20pm
The simple truth is that AQ has been virtually eliminated in Afghanistan. AQ was a tiny, primitively armed force of loosely associated Islamists harbored by the governments of Iran and Afghanistan.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:06pm
That's not true at all. The only allegation that Iran had any contact with AQ came from testimony that war tortureed from detainees.
There is no evidence that Iran ever ahrbored AQ, in fact, they went after AQ.
There is no evidence that 384 individual AQ members received any fuinding or help from Iran and you have repeatedly failed to provide it.
There is no AQ is in Iran, other than those who are in prison. AQ only recently attacked Tahran with a suicide mission, which we backed.
The people who attacked us on 9/11 weer living in Germany and Florida.
The 9/11 hijackers ended up receiving assistance from Afghanistan's ISI, not Iran. There is no link between Iran and the hijackers whatsoever. Stop repeating these lies.
An invasion of Iran in 1979 would have failed. A million Iraqis and Iranians weer killed becasue of a war that Iraq started and we supported.
The USSR never had any intention of invading Iran either.
You are living in an alternative universe.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 8:52pm
1. ... Eliminating this state support is crucial. As John David Lewis pointed out after 9/11, "the resources required to carry out the attack, especially training given the pilots, were on the scale of that available only to governments.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:06pm
Yes, it's already been established that those governments were Pakistand and Saudi Arabia.
The rest of your tirade has been debunked many time and is not supoprted by any evidence.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 8:59pm
2. ... . By contrast, the government of Iran has not only involved itself in the murder of thousands of Americans, it has attempted assassinations worldwide, tried to set up terrorist sleeper cells in Europe, and has chanted every Friday night hysterically over and over again the phrase "Death to America!" in order to express its desire to kill many more Americans.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:07pm
Again, all of this has been debunked. There is no evidence to supoprt any of this conspiracy theory.
Nor is there any evidence they are developing nuclear weapons.
Nor is there any evidence they have threatened to use what they aren't making on to use them on Israel.
Our government has NOT foiled any terror attacks since 9/11.
No attacks have been prevented in Europe, becasue there weren't any to foil.
You're right. There has been no threat from AQ or anyone for that matter.
We have no military options against Iran.
If we want to turn the tide in Afghanistan, we neded to stop fundign teh taliban and bribing Karzai's brother, who provides arms to the Taliban.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 9:04pm
"The USSR never had any intention of invading Iran either."
Who ever said something so ridiculous?
Are you illiterate?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:06pm
"Yes, it's already been established that those governments were Pakistand and Saudi Arabia."
There's no evidence that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, our allies, orchestrated 9/11.
Saudi Arabia has been attacked by AQ and their supporters in Tehran. Many Saudi security forces have died fighting AQ. Saudi Arabia has tried to arrest bin Laden and has handed AQ members over to us. AQ has declared a jihad against the Saudi royal family. It is hellbent on killing them due to their pro-Western position.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:11pm
However, their brutal totalitarian government was involved in the attacks.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 8:17pm
Wrong. There is no evidence to support that. Even the Bush administration, who hated Iran, never used that lie. The only allegation came from torture of detainees.
"It is true that the Iranian Supreme Leader at the time stated that Iran did not support the attacks."
There you go. That proves it. After all, if you can't believe what the Supreme Leader says, then you can'y use any statements by him to buttress your argument.
The 9/11 Commission, who'd vague allegations of remote contact between AL and Iran, was based on tortured testimony, just as the torture of Abu Zabaida was used to link Saddam to 911 and Al Qaeda.
We both know that Saddam was not involved in 9/11.
"By contrast, the Iranians had to immediately begin defending themselves from charges of involvement that had yet to be made, because they knew they looked guilty and sought to dispel that impression."
By that logic, any country that didn't cheer the attacks was involved.
That's worse than pathetic. Try again and use logic this time. Some evidence wouldn't hurt either.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 9:11pm
There's no evidence that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, our allies, orchestrated 9/11.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:11pm
The head of Pakistani intelligence wired $100,000 to Atta before the attacks.
Many Iranin security forces have died fighting AQ and the Taliban. Many Iranian officials have been killed by AQ too.
Iraq did hand AQ members over to us.
AQ has declared a jihad against Iran. I
Saudi Arabia is not pro Western.
So far, all you have done is prove Iran have no links to AQ.
You're not doing so well. Better try harder.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 9:18pm
"Wrong. There is no evidence to support that. Even the Bush administration, who hated Iran, never used that lie."
That is according to the 9/11 Commission. I know you don't regard the Commission as trustworthy, but Bush's appeasement of Iran hardly debunks it.
"By that logic, any country that didn't cheer the attacks was involved."
It's not that Iran didn't cheer the attacks, it's that it stated: "We are not supportive of the 9/11 attacks and any intelligence that says we were involved in them is wrong. We are peaceful," in a Friday night prayer before chanting: "Death to America! Death to America! All across Islamic Iran, there is one cry only: Death to the filthy and accursed America! Death to Israel! Death to England!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:19pm
Who ever said something so ridiculous?
Are you illiterate?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:06pm
You did many times.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 9:19pm
"You did many times."
So you ARE illiterate!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:20pm
That is according to the 9/11 Commission. I know you don't regard the Commission as trustworthy, but Bush's appeasement of Iran hardly debunks it.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:19pm
First, the head of the 911 Commission has stated that the report is flawed becasue much of the evidence was acquired through torture sand thus unreliable.
"More than one-quarter of all footnotes in the 9/11 Report refer to CIA interrogations of al Qaeda operatives subjected to the now-controversial interrogation techniques," writes former NBC producer Robert Windrem in The Daily Beast. "In fact, information derived from the interrogations was central to the 9/11 Report's most critical chapters, those on the planning and execution of the attacks."
"At least four of the operatives whose interrogation figured in the 9/11 Commission Report have claimed that they told interrogators critical information as a way to stop being ‘tortured.'"
""Commission executive director Philip Zelikow (later counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice) admitted, ‘We were not aware, but we guessed, that things like that were going on. We were wary…we tried to find different sources to enhance our credibility,'" Windrem continued. "(Zelikow testified before the Senate on Wednesday, May 13, that he had argued in a 2005 memo that some of the tactics used on suspected terrorists violated the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.)" http://tinyurl.com/oxltqc
"It's not that Iran didn't cheer the attacks, it's that it stated"
Because the neoconservatives and Israel were itching to pin the blame on Iran. Also, your theory about Saddam cheering the 911 attacks becasue he was innocent obviously backfired.
Like I said, there is no evidence.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 9:27pm
"You're right. There has been no threat from AQ"
At least we agree here. In fact, there's a great British documentary called "The Power of Nightmares" which shows that there is no AQ organization anywhere in the world, almost all of AQ was destroyed in the first few weeks of the Afghan war, and that which wasn't destroyed left Afghanistan almost completely (and we now know they went mostly to Iran).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:52pm
Why are the Saudis and Israelis so frightened by Iran and so eager to bomb them if they were never threatened by the mad, murderous Mullahs?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:57pm
From: What Obama Should Say to Iran by Debi Ghate
Imagine what might happen--the potential benefit to us and to Iran--if instead of declaring that we seek "a relationship with the Islamic Republic of Iran based upon mutual interests and mutual respect," President Obama had said the following on November 4th, 2009.
"Thirty years ago today, the American Embassy in Tehran was seized. The 444 days that began on November 4, 1979 deeply affected the lives of courageous Americans who were unjustly held hostage. Rather than atone for this, Iran's theocratic regime has clenched its iron fist to retain power. Once again, we have witnessed the beating and intimidation of Iranian protestors. I strongly condemn these unjust actions of the Iranian regime.
"My message tonight is to those Iranians voicing their opposition to the Ayatollah, making it clear his regime does not represent them.
"To those among you who are wholesale rejecting the oppression of theocratic rule--we offer you our moral sanction. You see, we share your goal of ending the Iranian theocracy and of eliminating the threat it poses to our own nation. We have had the moral right to end it for decades, as have you.
"It is time for America to unequivocally state that she does not recognize the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Iran has not had a legitimate government worthy of our recognition for decades. The country has been ruled by a series of theocrats. Let us not mince words: they are murderous dictators.
"For decades, the Iranian regime has repeatedly declared itself our enemy, chanting ‘Death to America' and openly attacking our citizens. America will no longer evade that this regime has orchestrated and participated in three decades of deadly assaults upon her people."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 10:55pm
At least we agree here. In fact, there's a great British documentary called "The Power of Nightmares" which shows that there is no AQ organization anywhere in the world, almost all of AQ was destroyed in the first few weeks of the Afghan war, and that which wasn't destroyed left Afghanistan almost completely (and we now know they went mostly to Iran).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:52pm
Yes, I enjoyed that doco too, but as Sy Hersh reported, they were ushered from Kunduz to Pakistan, not Iran.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 11:09pm
Why are the Saudis and Israelis so frightened by Iran and so eager to bomb them if they were never threatened by the mad, murderous Mullahs?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 9:57pm
Their afraid of Iran becasue Iran is a potential rival to their power. The Saudi's and Israel are afraid of the possibility of co-operation between the US and Iran, as well as Iran's growing influence in the region. Both Israel and the Saudi leadership depend on the US for their status and viability.
So yes, they are eager to bomb them to stop Iran from challenging their regional dominance.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 11:15pm
"Thirty years ago today, the American Embassy in Tehran was seized."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 10:55pm
This is big news for us because it happened to Americans, after America overthrew Iran's democraticlaly elected leader in 1953 asnd replaced his with a brutal and murderous dictator. The reality is that all those Americans that were held hostage were returned safely and unharmed.
Given the US violent interventino and terrorist attacks on Iran, Iran has nothing to atone for. If Iran were setting off bombs in Washington as we did in Tehran in 1953 and doing so today, we would have gone to war with them. If they had backed a country as it atacked us the way we backed Iraq, we would have gone to war with them. If they had shot down a US airliner and killed 290 US passenges in US air space, we would have gone to war with them. Iran didn't do that. They showed great restraint adn level headedness.
In 2003, Iran even made a grand peace offer and we rejected it.
We have witnessed the beating and intimidation of US protesters, such as in NYC during the 2004 Republican Convention or the Katrina Hurricane disaster.
"My message tonight is to those Iranians voicing their opposition to the Ayatollah, making it clear his regime does not represent them.
So what? There are millions who voiced their opposition to Bush and to Obama today, but like it or not, they are stuck with the president that was elected.
Whether America recognizes the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Ira or not is irrelevant. America is an empire in decline and it's relevance and influence in the world is a shell of what it used to be. Iran does not need us to recognize it. They are much more interested in doing business with real political and economic powers in China etc.
Posted by Shingo at 11/16/2009 @ 11:34pm
So, Shingo, Iran gets nukes. It invades and annexes Bahrain. It possibly does the same to other Gulf States. It cannot be stopped without risking nuclear war. Its support of terror and killing of American soldiers cannot be addressed and can escalate without fear of retribution. The Saudis develop nukes in response. Then, a half dozen or more Middle Eastern countries develop nukes. If radical Islamists overthrow any of the governments of these countries, America will face a nuclear 9/11. We will thus be hostage to these regimes and will have to help prop them up, even though giving them funds might actually lead to them giving funds to terrorists who murder Americans. These states each are at risk of starting a regional nuclear war. If any of these states orchestrates a new 9/11 against America, they cannot be attacked due to their nuclear weapons. We will be unable to deter them from supporting terror. Further, Iran has threatened to nuke Israel.
Is this outcome acceptable to you?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 11:44pm
"This is big news for us because it happened to Americans, after America overthrew Iran's democraticlaly elected leader in 1953 asnd replaced his with a brutal and murderous dictator."
The reality is that the Shah was a Constitutional monarch with limited authority who allowed the free election of political leaders. Mossadegh was one such leader, but he tried to stage a coup against the Shah and seize power for himself. America provided funding to Iranians who protested in favor of the Shah. These Iranians then overthrew Mossadegh and welcomed the Shah.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 11:49pm
"If Iran were setting off bombs in Washington as we did in Tehran in 1953 and doing so today, we would have gone to war with them"
America never set off any bombs in Tehran in 1953.
However, Iran has killed thousands of Americans and murdered or attempted to murder tens of thousands of Israelis, Americans, and Westerners worldwide. The shock to the world economy caused by their terror attacks has also killed tens of thousands, mostly in third-world countries.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 11:54pm
No, RWNC, Iran does not gets nukes. 16 US intelligence agencies and the IAEA say they are not even trying.
Why would Iran invade and annexe Bahrain? It has not invaded any country in 300 years, so what are they waiting for? And militarily, Iran does not have the capacity to do so to any other states. it doesn;t need to be stopepd because it won't ever get to first base. We were abel to drive Saddam out fo Kuwait in a matter of days, so it wouln't require nukes to drive them back, even if they tried.
It does not support terror. hamas is the elcetd governemtn in Gaza and Hebollah is a legimiate party in the Lebabnese governmet, as we are the last oens hwo should be lecturing to others abotu supoprting terros whil we give aid and arms to the Taliban, AQ affiliated Jundulla and the MEK. Iran has not killed a single American soldier.
If the Saudis develop nukes, it won't be in response becasue there will be nothing to respond to.
If you're worrid about radical Islamists gettign nukes, Pakistan has 90 for the taking. We have alwasy funded these regimes propped them up, so it woudl be business as usual. We even give funds s to terrorists who murder Americans, such as the MEK.
I have asked you on a dozen occasions to prove that Iran has threatened to nuke Israel. I can undertand why you keep avoiding this becasye you know you have nothing to supoprt your lies.
The outcome you presented has no basis in realilty and I don't worry about false hysteria. If you saw the Power fo Nightmares, you would know how propaganda has always been used to instill fear into people, yet you are still falling for it.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 12:01am
"We even give funds s to terrorists who murder Americans, such as the MEK."
You know, the MEK is the only terror group that Saddam was proven to have armed and trained. Are you saying that Saddam actually was involved in the murder of US citizens?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:08am
"The outcome you presented has no basis in realilty"
Not according to John Bolton.
And by the way, Iran arms radical Islamists who threaten to overwhelm the Pakistani government and use its nukes on India and America (but these Islamists are pathetically weak, and are almost certainly doomed to fail).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:10am
The reality is that the Shah was a Constitutional monarch
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/16/2009 @ 11:49pm
No he wasn't. Iran was a democracy that was subverted. There was no recognition of any Constitutional monarchy.
The Shah banned free speech. There were no free elections, or he would have been removed. Mossadegh was democratically elected and was removed by a US backed coup.
The Shah was not welcomed, he was inserted by the US and the Iranians threw him out.
You have your history backwards as usual.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 12:16am
Not according to John Bolton.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:10am
John Bolton is a pathological liar who is so despised, he couldn't even get confirmed to the positron of UN Ambassador by a Republican controlled Senate. Bolton is also famous for asserting that politicians have the right to dismiss evidence that does not support policy. He is loved by the neocons however, the same people you referred to traitors to America.
Iran has nothing to do with those who who threaten to overwhelm the Pakistani government. If you're talking about the Taliban, then it's the US that is giving them money and arms.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 12:20am
You know, the MEK is the only terror group that Saddam was proven to have armed and trained. Are you saying that Saddam actually was involved in the murder of US citizens?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:08am
I agree that the the MEK is the only terror group that Saddam was proven to have supported, and ironically, the US is also supporting them.
The MEK are Marxist radicals and have their own reason for what they do, They were never Saddam's puppets, but simply had a common enemy in Iran.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 12:23am
Yup. In one "Death to America!" rally in Iran I saw on Youtube, they also shouted "Death to the hypocrites (MEK) and Saddam!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:29am
"John Bolton is a pathological liar who is so despised"
Despised by whom? Fox News, Talk Radio, the Hugh Hewitt show, National Review, The Weekly Standard, ect, all seem to love him.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:31am
Yup. In one "Death to America!" rally in Iran I saw on Youtube, they also shouted "Death to the hypocrites (MEK) and Saddam!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:29am
You saw one clip on Youtube, which does not prove it happens every Friday night, as you like to harp on about.
The MEK are terrorist who have attacked Iran and took Saddam's side in the Iraq/Iran war that Saddam started. IN the end, we went after Saddam and killed him, and the State Department regard the MEK as a terrorist group. Who can blame them for saying "Death to the hypocrites (MEK) and Saddam!"
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 4:39pm
Despised by whom? Fox News, Talk Radio, the Hugh Hewitt show, National Review, The Weekly Standard, ect, all seem to love him.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 12:31am
All of which are propaganda and neocon outlets who publish lies. Thanks for proving my point.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 4:43pm
"Who can blame them for saying "Death to the hypocrites (MEK) and Saddam!""
I don't blame them at all, given that Saddam was a genocidal dictator who killed more than a million Iraqis, but Iran started the Iran-Iraq war, killing a million people. I'm fine with them condemning the MEK, or I would be if they weren't the most active state sponsor of terror in the world by far.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 7:06pm
I don't blame them at all,
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 11/17/2009 @ 7:06pm
Liar. You called them traitors to America and accused them of lying us into a war that has led to the deaths of thousands of Americans.
"given that Saddam was a genocidal dictator who killed more than a million Iraqis"
And a million Iranians too.
"Iran started the Iran-Iraq war"
Nope. Iraq started it.
"I'm fine with them condemning the MEK, or I would be if they weren't the most active state sponsor of terror in the world by far."
They're not actually. We are.
Stop lying.
Posted by Shingo at 11/17/2009 @ 7:48pm