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RedditPresident Obama didn't make encouraging noises on Afghanistan yesterday, at least not if you're looking for the president to reverse course and step out of the quagmire. In his meeting with members of Congress, including the ever-impatient John McCain, the president seemed to indicate that he's not planning any cut in US forces, nor -- at least according to the New York Times -- is he planning to refocus the US effort on a narrower, counterterrorism mission:
"President Obama told Congressional leaders on Tuesday that he would not substantially reduce American forces in Afghanistan or shift the mission to just hunting terrorists there, but he indicated that he remained undecided about the major troop buildup proposed by his commanding general."
That commanding general, of course, is one Stan McChrystal, appointed by Obama last spring, who's now front and center in a military squeeze play to force Obama to escalate the war. As the Wall Street Journal editorial page notes, in a lengthy editorial called "Obama and the General":
"Around the Congressional Democratic Caucus, we're told Members refer to General McChrystal as "General MacArthur," after the commander in Korea sacked by Harry Truman."
Exactly -- and the Republican "Joe McCarthy's" in the Congressional Republican Caucus are lauding McChrystal as the hero of all Afghanistan.
It's one thing for the WSJ to editorialize thusly, but the take-the-cake editorial for today goes to the insipid Washington Post, which warns Obama to listen to (of all people) the Pakistanis! The editorial is called "Why Did Benazir Die?" and it obsequiously quotes the Pakistan foreign minister urging the United States to stay and fight in Afghanistan. Says the paper:
"It seems pretty clear that if Mr. Obama decides to abandon counterinsurgency in the name of something called 'Pakistan First,' America's best allies in Pakistan won't be happy.'
The thing is, the reason Benazir died -- murdered by the Pakistani Taliban, it appears -- is that she was killed by the very forces that Pakistan created, nurtured, armed and trained, and in some cases even commanded, through the 1990s and into the current century. By most accounts, including even General McChrystal's latest report, Pakistan is still backing the Taliban in Afghanistan. So perhaps the very last people on the planet earth that Obama ought to be listening to on Afghanistan is the government of Pakistan. In fact, I'm starting to think that anything that makes "America's best allies in Pakistan" unhappy is the right policy.
Getting out of Afghanistan, sadly, is going to require making a deal with the Taliban and its backers, including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. That's a fact. We can't ignore Pakistan, of course, and we'll have to do things that strengthen the fledgling civilian government there, corrupt as it is, to reduce the power of the Taliban-loving Pakistani military and its ISI allies.
But if Obama doesn't have the political courage to slap down his COIN-crazy generals and start to reverse course, well, getting out is going to be even harder -- and it will take a lot more years.
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Robert Dreyfuss
A chronicle of America's adventures in foreign policy and national security.
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The so-called hunting of terrorists in Afghanistan, only helped the Taliban. The civilian deaths due to the drone attacks help Taliban to recruit more people to their fold.The Taliban, by all account, have expanded their strength and influence. The increasing death toll of the NATO troops is an indication of that. A troop surge will not help to win this war.
Posted by Dastu11 at 10/07/2009 @ 10:23am
'Getting out of Afghanistan, sadly, is going to require making a deal with the Taliban and its backers, including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE. That's a fact. We can't ignore Pakistan, of course, and we'll have to do things that strengthen the fledgling civilian government there, corrupt as it is, to reduce the power of the Taliban-loving Pakistani military and its ISI allies.'
Yes...please don't kick us in the ass on the way out.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 10:30am
Pres. Obama was incompetent for the presidency. A strong statement? Look at the record!
BO had no real accomplishments. He was graduated from good schools, Columbia, Harvard, a hard working student. Being a Harvard Law graduate is a fine credential for getting a job with a prestigious law firm, but it is the start of a career, a preparation. Since then, he has been an ambitious politician who, through good fortune and clever positioning, has had a meteoric rise. His legislative record, both in Illinois and in the US Senate was not notable. Before, as an adjunct law professor at U. of Chicago, he did not write any significant papers before moving on. He has no credentials in economics (no surprise!). He has no credentials in foreign or military affairs. In spite of these lacunae, he took it upon himself, while a candidate, to decide that we should be fighting in Afghanistan. Now, we are!
As President, BO has shown no stomach to oppose entrenched power, in financial, health-care or in the growing police-state. He really was not up to the job and has done a very poor job, to date. I think were he not black-skinned, he would be far more sharply criticized and opposed by members of his own party, as well as the public. He never should have been selected as the Democratic candidate in 2008.
Like LBJ, BO will be on his way home in 2013, wringing his hands for his war-policies.
Posted by goedel at 10/07/2009 @ 11:08am
The squeeze play was Obama's. He sought to squeeze out of looking foolish and gutless after pronouncing Iraq was unwinnable and that the Surge would make matters worse. He then put the squeeze on the Republicans by accusing them of neglecting Afghanistan, which the Left had labeled the good war, but he would give it the resources it needed and fight it to victory.
He used that war for his personal political ends and now has Americans dying and being maimed as a result. The country is in a squeeze because Obama needed to look tough.
A few months ago , Obama vowed: ‘To focus on the greatest threat to our people, America must no longer deny resources to Afghanistan because of the war in Iraq.'
But now the greatest threat to America has become the greatest threat to Obama and he wants his responsibility for this disaster to be erased.
The truth speakers of The Nation, its "journalists" respond thus:
Nichols reports that Obama is resisting pressure to send reinforcements.
Dreyfuss sees a crazy General McChrystal forcing a nutty COIN strategy and a troop build-up on a beleaguered president. Nevermind that he himself demanded that build up and handpicked that general as the best man for the job and asked him for his professional opinion. If this general is now a lunatic, what does that make Obama?
Granted, Dreyfuss who spent years working for Lyndon LaRaush is something of an expert on lunacy.
Posted by Pirovano at 10/07/2009 @ 11:20am
cool, hugo.
ready to go?
emperor karzai's gonna need all the help he can "get".
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/07/2009 @ 11:32am
If this general is now a lunatic, what does that make Obama?
Posted by Pirovano at 10/07/2009 @ 11:20am | ignore this person | warn this person
It makes BO look strong if he puts McChrystal in his place. Let's hope he is man enough and wise enough to admit it, unlike your petulant retard GWB.
"I will do what my generals say - as long as they say what I want them to say"...lol.....
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 11:42am
emperor karzai's gonna need all the help he can "get".
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/07/2009 @ 11:32am | ignore this person | warn this person
Hugo can help write the new constitution for Karzai - pretty simple job really.
"I am King"
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 11:44am
Best guess...mid-way between McChrystal's 10,000 and 40,000 number request....and a set time-line with "benchmarks" with the key time frame being no later than July next year.
McChrystal shows "results" by then...or the "draw-down" begins and Obama gives Dems going into the mid-terms both "We're getting out" for the Left and a "We tried it YOUR way" retort to Republican opponents.
BTW, if goedel is right, and Obama is defeated in 2012....his Republican successor will not "stay in it, to win it". He (or she) will pull a Nixon '72 and sign the peace treaty January 2013 in time for the Inaugural and tell Rush, Drudge, Fox to say it is a 21st Century version of "peace with honor" and get the right-wing Blogosphere to repeat it....
which they dutifully will, in total contradiction of their statements today under Obama.
Posted by Mask at 10/07/2009 @ 11:53am
--obama will clearly cave. mask's predictions will not come true.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/07/2009 @ 11:57am
Posted by urmygyro at 10/07/2009 @ 11:57am
urmy, I posted that Obama WOULD give McChrystal between 10,000 and 40,000 troops...
which is I assume YOUR definition of "caving", isn't it????? Or just knee-jerking so fast because it's me, you can't even see when you and I are agreeing?!??!?
Posted by Mask at 10/07/2009 @ 12:03pm
Karzai is the President of the Capital Kabul, and that too with the help of the NATO forces. They are helpless in other areas. Taliban is winning there and their influence is spreading to Pakistan, after the repeated air strikes on Pakistani soil.Now even the UN offices are immune to attacks from the militants in Pakistan. Pakistan is facing an internal security threat , after it's formation due to the help that it gives to US.US ravaged Iraq and Afghanistan waging an unwanted wars, and Pakistan by using it as a tool to fight the Taliban.
Posted by Dastu11 at 10/07/2009 @ 12:06pm
"........he indicated that he remained undecided about the major troop buildup proposed by his commanding general."
Yeah, right. And I'm undecided about breathing, too.
Thanks for the cheery update, though.
Posted by DejaVu at 10/07/2009 @ 12:06pm
"Will Obama Cave to McChrystal?"
Yes. Next question.
Also, you may want to consider that Obama orchestrated the leak to give him cover - to force him to do what he wanted to do anyway.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/07/2009 @ 12:15pm
Afghanistan is not Iraq, Iran, Honduras,or Guatemala. It is , however, the country from which the 9/11 attack was planned and launched! The attacks on London are associated with Pakistan. Anyone who has read my comments knows that I oppose any form of Imperialism be it overt or economic. I am also pro-Palestinian! The war in Afghanistan was a response to a direct attack on this country. I view this conflict as necessary. There is no such thing as a good war, but sometimes you have to fight necessary wars. This is one of them! This is where I stand!
Posted by pjcasey at 10/07/2009 @ 12:17pm
Posted by pjcasey at 10/07/2009 @ 12:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
PJ - could you please give me several sources for your assertion that it was planned and orchestrated from Afghanistan?
No torture victim testimony please.
Now - if we got the goods on OBL, why do you suppose the FBI doesn't charge him 9/11?
Get real pal.
Get honest.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 12:26pm
McChrystal needs a muzzle. If he worked for me he would be demoted or fired. Irregardless of the validity of his arguments Obama is CIC and should not allow his subordinates to pressure him using media "leaks". Total crap! Shows a complete lack of respect, and if your staff does not respect you, you can't trust them.
Generals should report what they have to their superiors, have the internal discussions and leave the politics to the politicians. By leaking his report and pressuring via the media and politics to force the president into a corner is donkey vomit, and the president should call him out for it and can his ass. The report was leaked to the media before it was even turned into the president. That is totally underhanded and heads should roll.
On the topic of Afghanistan, I agree with the general to increase troop strength there. Since we have won in Iraq due to the surge (acording to McCain and other), we should be able to draw our forces down from Iraq and move them to Afghanistan. Try the surge tactic there... If that does not work we call it, and get out.
Posted by Extraneous at 10/07/2009 @ 1:37pm
"Also, you may want to consider that Obama orchestrated the [McChrystal] leak to give him cover - to force him to do what he wanted to do anyway."
Posted by srjenkins
Good point.
I haven't spent much time on these blog spaces of late ripping into Obama in part because so many "progressives" tend to plug their ears when they hear strong criticism of their savior --think Budd Lite...er...."Metteyya" for a prime example, but there are many more like him, if not quite as bone-headed.
I think the time for taking it easy on the "O" is over.
Here's a penetrating and sharply intelligent scrutinizing of the "O" --or perhaps we should just call him "D'oh!":
(5 min) video excerpt of speech
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23281.htm
"The clever young man who recently made it to the White House is a very fine hypnotist, partly because it is indeed extraordinary to see an African American at the pinnacle of power in the land of slavery.
However, this is the 21st Century, and race, together with gender and even class, can be very seductive tools of propaganda. For what is so often overlooked and what matters, I believe, above all, is the class one serves.
George Bush's inner circle from the State Department to the Supreme Court was, perhaps, the most multiracial in presidential history. It was PC par excellence. Think Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell. It was also the most reactionary.
Obama's very presence in the White House appears to reaffirm the moral nation. He's a marketing dream. But like Calvin Klein or Benetton, he is a brand that promises something special, something exciting, almost risqué, as if he might be radical, as if he might enact change. He makes people feel good. He's a post-modern man with no political baggage...."
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:02pm
...and that's all fake."
End quote.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:03pm
If readers here enjoy the intelligence and insight of someone like John Pilger, here's the Book TV interview of Chris Hedges by Ron Suskind:
tinyurl.com/y85dft9
And here's the event that essentially launched Hedges into the public consciousness --replace the Limbo's, Sean Insanity's, and Feckless Beck's with the voice of Hedges, and America would be on an entirely different, and hospitable planet:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAWMgYyAtHU
Wiki excerpt:
....born in St. Johnsbury, Vermont, the son of a Presbyterian minister, the Rev. Thomas Hedges. He graduated from the Loomis Chaffee School in Windsor, Connecticut in 1975. He has a B.A. in English Literature from Colgate University and a Master of Divinity from Harvard Divinity School, where he studied under James Luther Adams...
In 1983, Hedges began his career reporting on the conflict in El Salvador. Following six years in Latin America, he took time off to study Arabic and then went to Jerusalem and later Cairo. He spent seven years in the Middle East, most of them as the Middle East Bureau Chief for The New York Times. He left the Middle East in 1995 for Sarajevo to cover the war in Bosnia followed by the war in Kosovo. Later, he joined the investigative team of The New York Times, based in Paris, and covered terrorism.
He was a Nieman Fellow at Harvard University during the academic year of 1998-1999, and spent a year studying classics. In addition to English, he speaks Arabic, French and Spanish and knows Latin and ancient Greek. He has written for numerous publications including The Nation, Foreign Affairs, Harper's Magazine, The New York Review of Books, Granta, Mother Jones, New Humanist and Robert Scheer's web magazine Truthdig where he publishes a column every Monday...
Peace out.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:29pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Repost for you Kool........ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and 100 years ago, OV's time-frame?, Barack Obama could have been hanged from a tree in many states for "fun"....and nothing been done about it.
Posted by Mask at 10/07/2009 @ 1:33pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Ah....so that is "change you can believe in."
I thought it was going to be something more.
Some argue that BO is our first Jewish president too.
Nice call by David Axelrod. Trot out a black guy.
"Well if we can elect a black president, what is to stop us now."
I think you are underestimating the "black vote." They were expecting substantive change, not just "feel good" change.
I am expecting that we haven't heard the last of Farrakan, and 2012 is going to show us just how far we have come as to racial issues when blacks look at Bama's record rather than his skin color. Jewish "liberals" are going to have "astro-turf" this one very hard (again) to keep the black vote in line. And, I don't think Repubs are going to be runnin a racist 2012.
'Slip sliding away, slip sliding away
You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away'
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 2:10pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 2:34pm
'Sup OV,
When the walls start to cave in --as they've clearly begun to-- we have no choice but to reframe the situation in its best aspect.
The United States will soon be incapable of throwing its weight around. In large part, that's due to a drastic decline in body mass resulting from the malnourishment of constant war.
Maybe there is a God afterall.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:47pm
Maybe there is a God afterall.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 2:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Laws of the Universe Kool.
You are not alone.
Keep the Faith!
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 2:49pm
Reuters Wed Oct.7, 2009 "Afghan Taliban say they pose no threat to the West" by Sayed Salahuddin. There is also a website, www.shahamat.org mentioned. The Taliban spokesman said that the invasion was because the Taliban would not give up al-Qaida to the U.S.
Posted by pjcasey at 10/07/2009 @ 3:14pm
Like LBJ, BO will be on his way home in 2013, wringing his hands for his war-policies.
Posted by goedel at 10/07/2009 @ 11:08am | ignore this person | warn this person
That is very possible.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/07/2009 @ 3:50pm
Granted, Dreyfuss who spent years working for Lyndon LaRaush is something of an expert on lunacy.
Posted by Pirovano at 10/07/2009 @ 11:20am | ignore this person | warn this person
The LaRouche operation, whether one agrees or disagrees with the philosophy of LaRouche himself, has been recognized by many as one of the best private intelligence-gathering operations around.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/07/2009 @ 3:52pm
Posted by pjcasey at 10/07/2009 @ 3:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person
So Reuters reports that Taliban was willing to give up OBL one year before 9/11. A meeting reportedly took place in Frankfurt. Taliban wanted to turn over [EXTRADITE] OBL to a third country (US to choose) or The Hague's Court of Justice, and Taliban apparently made a couple of other offers.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147756/posts
Post 9/11, Taliban stated that they would try OBL in Islamic Courts, provided US provide evidence linking OBL to 9/11. Bush refused to do this, and made outrageous other demands on Taliban that would violate their sovereignty.
Bush refused to negotiate anything with Taliban.
So - what is the evidence against OBL, and where is it?
Your statement is that the invasion was result of direct attack on this country.
I assume you believe OBL did it.
OBL was wanted on other charges prior to 9/11. The FBI has not put forth charges against OBL for 9/11. Why?
Why hasn't Bush come forward with his evidence against OBL?
I am still waiting for your proof that 9/11 was planned and orchestrated from Afghanistan.
Your sure it wasn't planned and orchested from the United States?
What is your proof to the contrary.
Are you aware of what took place in Afghanistan post Soviet departure? I assume you are.
Lots more going on here besides OBL. Lots more.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 4:39pm
What is your proof to the contrary.
Are you aware of what took place in Afghanistan post Soviet departure? I assume you are.
Lots more going on here besides OBL. Lots more.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 4:39pm
Sounding a little crazy there OV. We know that all the hijackers had been training in afghanistan, from their passport records. We know that OBL has claimed responsibility. Unless of course everything the government has said was a vast conspiracy.
I don't believe it. They may be that devious, but they are not that good. There is no way they could keep the conspiracy underwraps.
Posted by Extraneous at 10/07/2009 @ 5:04pm
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 4:39pm
I've debunked your nonsense before and don't mind doing so again.
<Testimony of Dale L. Watson, Executive Assistant Director, Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence Division, FBI Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence February 6, 2002
However, as the events of September 11 demonstrated with horrible clarity, the United States also confronts serious challenges from international terrorists. The transnational Al-Qaeda terrorist network headed by Usama Bin Laden has clearly emerged as the most urgent threat to U.S. interests. The evidence linking Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable. The law enforcement and military response mounted by the United States has done much to weaken the organizational structure and capabilities of Al-Qaeda. Despite the military setbacks suffered by Al-Qaeda, however, it must continue to be viewed as a potent and highly capable terrorist network with cells around the world>
http://tinyurl.com/3nhszx
hang in there OV, I have more to cement this
Posted by antisocialist at 10/07/2009 @ 5:25pm
In order to be listed on the FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitive list, the suspect must have been indicted for the crime. To indict Bin Laden formally for the 9/11 attacks would require presenting evidence in a court of law; such evidence linking Bin Laden to 9/11 would include intelligence sources, and Al-Qaeda detainees. Making such sources (and methods) publicly known, perhaps isn't advised. In the Zacarias Moussaoui case, a big deal was made over access to detainee witnesses and about handling evidence from other intelligence sources.
In all, the 9/11 attacks were viewed as an "act of war", and the U.S. government is responding accordingly. During the Clinton administration, terrorism was handled more as a matter of law enforcement. This change in how terrorism is handled may be yet another reason why the U.S. government has not bothered to formally indict Bin Laden for the 9/11 attacks.
Regarding this matter, FBI officials told the Washington Post:
"There's no mystery here," said FBI spokesman Rex Tomb. "They could add 9/11 on there, but they have not because they don't need to at this point. . . . There is a logic to it."
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Osama_bin_Laden
Posted by antisocialist at 10/07/2009 @ 5:27pm
A video recovered from a home in Jalalabad, in November, and made public on December 13, 2001, shows Bin Laden talking to a group of supporters. Al Qaeda likely did not intend for this tape to be disseminated.
In the tape, he explains:
" "We calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all. (...Inaudible...) Due to my experience in this field, I was thinking that the fire from the gas in the plane would melt the iron structure of the building and collapse the area where the plane hit and all the floors above it only. This is all that we had hoped for." "
The videotape indicates that five days before the attacks, which occurred on a Tuesday, bin Laden knew the date and time they would occur:
" "We had notification since the previous Thursday that the event would take place that day. We had finished our work that day and had the radio on. It was 5:30 p.m. our time [8:00 am in New York and Washington]. ... Immediately, we heard the news that a plane had hit the World Trade Center. We turned the radio station to the news from Washington. The news continued and no mention of the attack until the end. At the end of the newscast, they reported that a plane just hit the World Trade Center. ... After a little while, they announced that another plane had hit the World Trade Center. The brothers who heard the news were overjoyed by it. ..." "
More to come
Posted by antisocialist at 10/07/2009 @ 5:29pm
Bin Laden knew there would be multiple attacks:
" "They were overjoyed when the first plane hit the building, so I said to them: be patient. The difference between the first and the second plane hitting the towers was twenty minutes. And the difference between the first plane and the plane that hit the Pentagon was one hour." "
The video indicates that bin Laden was very familiar with the operational planning for the attacks:
" "Mohammad Atta from the Egyptian family (meaning the Al Qaeda Egyptian group), was in charge of the group. ... The brothers, who conducted the operation, all they knew was that they have a martyrdom operation and we asked each of them to go to America but they didn't know anything about the operation, not even one letter. But they were trained and we did not reveal the operation to them until they are there and just before they boarded the planes. ... Those who were trained to fly didn't know the others. One group of people did not know the other group."
http://www.debunk911myths.org/topics/Osama_bin_Laden
Peter Bergen, who has interviewed Bin Laden and authored several books about him, commented about the video:
" You know, and simple explanations are the best ones. There will always be conspiracy theories about these kinds of things. But they're just conspiracy theories. This was obviously a kind of casual moment. I have seen tapes similar to this during the Afghan war against the Soviet Union, Bin Laden sort of sitting around kibbitzing with his friends. It has all of the hallmarks of authenticity to me
Posted by antisocialist at 10/07/2009 @ 5:30pm
The funny thing is, if bin Laden is such an arch figure of evil, why haven't we made a more aggressive effort to capture or kill him?
Here's a special forces officer on 60 Minutes talking about how Washington shut down the hunt for bin Laden:
www.americanspecialops.com/video/delta-force-dalton-fury.php
The mysteries only deepen the further you dig. You haven't yet scratched the surface, Larry.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/07/2009 @ 5:49pm
Also, you may want to consider that Obama orchestrated the leak to give him cover - to force him to do what he wanted to do anyway.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/07/2009 @ 12:15pm
I wouldn't put it past Obama or any US president for that matter.
Posted by Shingo at 10/07/2009 @ 5:56pm
Obama Cave.....Osama Cave...! Now there are some real paralells to consider for later! Bwahahahahaha!
Posted by BigPasture at 10/07/2009 @ 6:37pm
There is no way they could keep the conspiracy underwraps.
Posted by Extraneous at 10/07/2009 @ 5:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Well sometimes it gets away from you, sometimes it doesn't.
Take Operation Northwoods for instance.
So - OBL isn't linked to 9/11 by FBI. Why?
WTC #7 is slam dunk a controlled demolition.
Bush tells that he watched the first plane hit WTC while waiting outside the grade school on the day of the attack. Goes into some elaboration. Note - video of the first plane wasn't available till the next day.
Bush nailed on lies about WMD in Iraq. (goes to government credibility)
Just too many questions, too many coincidences on that day.
It strains credulity, but hey, Gulf of Tonkin does too doesn't it.
So we got passports. Possible to fake passports?
Here is a website that asks many questions.....if you are interested.
http://www.apfn.org/APFN/WTC_questions.htm
Something tells me though, that you've put it behind you a long time ago.
For me, I am suspicious of pretext for war in both of the wars.
Just common sense, based on all the lies.
Passports huh? Like Ziad Jarrah's passport right...lol? Links him to Mossad actually through relatives and his passport was found with 'just enough' info intact to identify him at the "crash" site of Flight 93. See Ali and Youssef Jarrah - Lebanon - assassination of Hezbollah military leader Imad Mughniyeh in Damascus in February 2008. Oh my.......
And, why did Bush indicate that he wasn't interested in pursuing OBL anymore? Not a priority.
Just doesn't add up Extra.
Crazy? Yeah. Maybe so. But not for the reason you think.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 6:40pm
Best guess...mid-way between McChrystal's 10,000 and 40,000 number request....and a set time-line with "benchmarks" with the key time frame being no later than July next year.
Posted by Mask at 10/07/2009 @ 11:53am
Uh, your "Best guess", if it turns out true on a "mid-way" troop boost.......hmmm, troubling.... Either you now think Magic IS stupid--unlikely, as you're his staunchest defender now--or you think he's willing to sacrifice hundreds of American lives and abandon this Good War just before campaigning gets hot and heavy next summer.
My prediction: even w/the maximum 40k more troops requested by McChrystal, this Good War will head rip-roaring into the 10th year next fall! This isn't Iraq....it's far more complex with less strategic value....a `Good' War indeed!
Posted by Happy at 10/07/2009 @ 6:44pm
Obama Cave.....Osama Cave...! Now there are some real paralells to consider for later! Bwahahahahaha!
Posted by BigPasture at 10/07/2009 @ 6:37pm
I'm sure the parallel's your considering involve primates right BigPasture?
Posted by Shingo at 10/07/2009 @ 6:55pm
"McChrystal needs a muzzle. If he worked for me he would be demoted or fired. Irregardless of the validity of his arguments Obama is CIC and should not allow his subordinates to pressure him using media "leaks". Total crap! Shows a complete lack of respect, and if your staff does not respect you, you can't trust them. Generals should report what they have to their superiors, have the internal discussions and leave the politics to the politicians."
Posted by Extraneous at 10/07/2009 @ 1:37pm
Amen. I am tired of reading crap like this from dreyfuss and others, "Will Obama cave (?)" "If Obama doesn't have the political courage".
He better damn well FIND the courage, and start acting like the CIC. The general works for him, not vice versa. It's time to forget about the polls and act like a leader.
Posted by twillie at 10/07/2009 @ 7:22pm
Even Charlie Wilson says the Afghan war is a lost cause.
Posted by Shingo at 10/07/2009 @ 7:40pm
Even Charlie Wilson says the Afghan war is a lost cause.
Posted by Shingo at 10/07/2009 @ 7:40pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/07/2009 @ 5:30pm
Thanks Larry.
I like the FBI's logic the best...lol
FBI
Who actually decides which fugitives go on the list?
The Criminal Investigative Division (CID) at FBI Headquarters calls upon all 56 Field Offices to submit candidates for the FBI's "Ten Most Wanted Fugitives" list. The nominees received are reviewed by Special Agents in the CID and the Office of Public Affairs. The selection of the "proposed" candidate(s) is forwarded to the Assistant Director of the CID for his/her approval and then to the FBI's Deputy Director for final approval.
On what criteria is that decision made?
First, the individual must have a lengthy record of committing serious crimes and/or be considered a particularly dangerous menace to society due to current criminal charges. Second, it must be believed that the nationwide publicity afforded by the Program can be of assistance in apprehending the fugitive, who, in turn, should not already be notorious due to other publicity.
So Larry - I notice the FBI does have a "wanted on suspicion of" category - which requires no indictment.
And, indictments are made in absentia all the time are they not? Of course, the culprit is most wanted and a fugitive.
What gives? Oh yes....I forgot....must be kept top secret.
So the other charges against OBL - why do you suppose that they were not classified and led to indictable offenses charged?
Funny logic. Prosecutor always wins right.
And after 8 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on.
This isn't debunking - this is baloney - Bush baloney. Taliban wasn't buying it either apparently.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 7:51pm
'The alleged terrorists on this list have been indicted by sitting Federal Grand Juries in various jurisdictions in the United States for the crimes reflected on their wanted posters. Evidence was gathered and presented to the Grand Juries, which led to their being charged. The indictments currently listed on the posters allow them to be arrested and brought to justice. Future indictments may be handed down as various investigations proceed in connection to other terrorist incidents, for example, the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. [2]'
From your cite Larry?
So - where is OBL's indictment?
After 8 frickin years Larry.
We need indictments all right, for: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and Company.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 8:01pm
FBI = Forever Bothering Italians.
(With my apologies to those of Italian descent.)
They're still stuck in their "heyday," looking for JIMMY HOFFA, and headlines, like they were around here A FEW WEEKS AGO!
Seriously. They were tearing up a junkyard here on Tireman Ave. looking for Jimmy Hoffa. That's where the !@$#%% FBI's head is at!
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/07/2009 @ 8:07pm
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/people_jimmy_hoffa/index.htm l
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/07/2009 @ 8:09pm
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/07/2009 @ 8:07pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Like Jimmy Hoffa - that evidence against OBL will never be found.
But, at least under previous administrations, and ostensibly pre 9/11, certain fundamental rules of justice were followed, albeit imperfectly.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 8:19pm
Robert Dreyfuss: "So perhaps the very last people on the planet earth that Obama ought to be listening to on Afghanistan is the government of Pakistan."
I think you have got it absolutely right.
Posted by trueleftist at 10/07/2009 @ 8:31pm
OneVote, seemingly reasonable and intelligent, has revealed himself to be a clinically insane jihadist conspiracy nut.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/07/2009 @ 10:25pm
And Larry,
When you think how a grand jury issues an indictment consider this:
'Before a formal criminal trial may take place, the prosecution must either file a Bill of Information, or have the defendant indicted by a Grand Jury.
The defendant has no right to confront witnesses at the Grand Jury hearing and the standard of proof to indict for trial is by a preponderance of evidence, or "more likely than not".'
Real big threat to "state secrets." Yeah right.
We don't have an indictment because Bush can't even make out a case based on preponderence on evidence. On 9/11, all he would really have to do is show a prima facie case to get an indictment, based on preponderence of evidence.
"Prima facie evidence need not be conclusive or irrefutable: at this stage, evidence rebutting the case is not considered, only whether any party's case has enough merit to take it to a full trial"
Bush's risk is that he can not make out a prima facie case, and that a grand jury might ask for more (prove up your evidence). If he then invokes state secrets, he is out of luck. Judges are very good at limiting disclosure, particularly when there is no defendant to question the evidence, and/or seek to limit the privileged information.
Grand jury proceedings are secret as well.
I am just not buying it. Not at all.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 11:04pm
OneVote, seemingly reasonable and intelligent, has revealed himself to be a clinically insane jihadist conspiracy nut.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/07/2009 @ 10:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Please explain RW.
Because I question?
This is what a Patriot does!
This is what you should do.
Posted by OneVote at 10/07/2009 @ 11:05pm
Please. Your "controlled demolition" theory is lunatic fantasy.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/07/2009 @ 11:24pm
Will Obama cave into McCrystal?
Yes, but he will try to finesse the decision. That won't work because most of his base is not open to being finessed. I know I'm not.
Obama might as well give his LBJ "I won't run again" speech now.
He must either withdraw from Afghanistan now or withdraw from the presidency in 2011. (and P.S. withdraw from Afghanistan is not surrender except for surrendering to common sense.)
We on the left should be preparing now for a Republican presidency after 2012.
Posted by dont_know at 10/08/2009 @ 06:25am
And tomorrow morning when Obama attacks the Moon, he will once again be following in Bush's footsteps; bomb first and look for evidence later.
Posted by dont_know at 10/08/2009 @ 06:33am
Posted by Happy at 10/07/2009 @ 6:44pm
I realize the political aspect of this puts you in a dilemma, HAPP.
Obama does EXACTLY what the Right wants on Afghanistan...gives McChrystal the troops....you can't complain...but HAVE to complain because it's Obama and you have (as Charles Krauthammer first diagnosed it)..."Obama Derangement Syndrome."
Plus, you'll have to scramble for a HOW to attack Obama on it, given he's dissing the Left and embracing your policy....while secretly hoping it gets worse, so that you can use it in 2010 and 2012.
Not that contradicting yourselves is something new to the Right....heheh
Posted by Mask at 10/08/2009 @ 07:35am
Zardari is probably one of the most corrupt politicians on earth. we may think that we are using him to accomplish our objectives. But who is really being used? We will need to expend blood and treasure to keep him in office - the alternative - the Taliban waiting in the wings. So its no longer he needs us, now we need him. Something is really wrong when America needs the support of some of the most corrupt politicians in the world to protect our national security. Why do we have to depend on these crooks for our national security?
Posted by trueleftist at 10/08/2009 @ 08:06am
I am astonished reading some of these responses of the naivety of the posters. The Taliban aided and abetted those who murdered 3,000 Americans on 911. They have tried to overthrow the Pakistani government and that would give Al Queda access to nuclear weapons. They have repeatedly defended their alliance with Osama Bin Ladin and the leaders of the Taliban have refused to break their ties with Al Queda.
Cutting a deal with the Taliban would mean turning our backs on freedom for women who were tortured and had acid thrown on their faces because they dared to want an education and make something of their lives rather than be forced into marriage with a man three times their age before they reached their teens.
I am sick of these posters referring to the war in Afganistan as a war George Bush started. If Bush had not gone to war in Afganistan he should have been impeached. We were attacked by a group of psychopaths on 911 for no reason whatosever. BEFORE 911 Al Queda bombed three of our embassies in Africa and murdered three hundred people, bombed ther U.S.S. Cole and murdered twenty of our soliders and killed our soldiers in Somalia. These people glorify in the murder of innocents, including innocent Moslems who do not agree with their insane views of Islam. If we cut and run now we will most assuredly be hit again in the future, and the next time will be with a weapon of mass destuction.
The posters sicken me. If this were 1938 they would be demanding we not get involved and that we should negotiate with Hitler and his murderous regime. Evil exists and it must be defeated. History has shown that when we look the other way or try and negotiate with murderers all end up doing is making things much, much worse for free people everywhere in the future.
If we are not will
Posted by mjkoch at 10/08/2009 @ 08:33am
He never should have been selected as the Democratic candidate in 2008.
tell us again how terrific Nader is.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 08:39am
If this were 1938 they would be demanding we not get involved and that we should negotiate with Hitler and his murderous regime. Evil exists and it must be defeated. History has shown that when we look the other way or try and negotiate with murderers all end up doing is making things much, much worse for free people everywhere in the future.
If we are not will
Posted by mjkoch at 10/08/2009 @ 08:33am | ignore this person | warn this person
No mjkoch, if this were 1938, many of us opposing this stupid war in Afghanistan would be demanding that those who put Hitler in power be prosecuted for treason, like George Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush. And we would be demanding military action against all the Nazi's like Karl Rove's grandfather who was a Nazi official.
Your comparison of the Taliban hillbillies with the Nazi's is not only fatuous it is insulting to everyone who fought the Nazi's.
Posted by dont_know at 10/08/2009 @ 08:45am
'In successive decisions since 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the president is not above the law even in time of war, that he does not get to deny any prisoner's right to due process (although that process may be duly narrowed to irrelevance by Congress, as it was by the Military Commissions Act), and he does not decide when and where American law is preempted by executive fiat. But at no point did the court rule on the "enemy combatant" designation--the root of the Bush White House's poisoned tree, from which so many nooses hung. Last week, in a 13-page brief filed in federal district court, the Obama administration announced that it would no longer refer to prisoners at Guantanamo as "enemy combatants." It was "refining its position," in the brief's opening line. "Principles derived from law-of-war rules governing international armed conflicts, therefore, must inform the interpretation of the detention authority Congress has authorized for the current armed conflict." It sounds better than it is. Obama is retaining the "right," non-existent in international law, to detain the same prisoners, indefinitely, without charge. He's not replacing the Bush policy. He's re-branding it while cloaking it in language more seductive to the international community, and less singularly belligerent, as it was under Bush. But in the end, the change is deceptive and possibly pernicious, if it codifies, under the guise of more acceptable language, an unacceptable policy.'
Re-branding "Enemy Combatants" Thursday March 19, 2009
Excerpt: Middle East Issues - About.com Pierre Tristam
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 09:35am
I realize the political aspect of this puts you in a dilemma, HAPP.
Obama does EXACTLY what the Right wants on Afghanistan.....
Not that contradicting yourselves is something new to the Right....heheh
Posted by Mask at 10/08/2009 @ 07:35am
"dilemma"? I have a dilemma on Afghanistan? Are you drunk this morning?
Proclaiming "Obama does EXACTLY what the Right wants on Afghanistan" is about as loonie as you can get when Magic campaigned harder on fighting this Good War than anyone else, including McCain! In my book, when you WANT to fight, you up your resources in the theater. Now, the Right may or may not want to UP the ante in Afghanistan....we're HAPPY with the low-level engagement there for 7 years, no?
No sir, it is YOU and the Far Left that have a HUGE DILEMMA......see Jako's seemingly genuine lament on another thread!
Posted by Happy at 10/08/2009 @ 09:52am
Maybe we should listen to military men, or Conservatives, like say, Andrew Bacevich.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 10:21am
WE should not listen to the military, they love war, else they would be in another line of work.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 10:32am
WE should not listen to the military, they love war, else they would be in another line of work.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 10:33am
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 10:32am
Not to be rude, but you've never heard of Andrew Bacevich, have you?
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 10:59am
It sounds better than it is. Obama is retaining the "right," non-existent in international law, to detain the same prisoners, indefinitely, without charge. He's not replacing the Bush policy. He's re-branding it while cloaking it in language more seductive to the international community, and less singularly belligerent, as it was under Bush. But in the end, the change is deceptive and possibly pernicious, if it codifies, under the guise of more acceptable language, an unacceptable policy.'
Re-branding "Enemy Combatants" Thursday March 19, 2009
Excerpt: Middle East Issues - About.com Pierre Tristam
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 09:35am
First of all, they still don't meet the definitions in the 3rd Geneva Convention on the Treatment of Prisoners (article 4)
Secondly, Geneva allows indefinite detention without charge
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/geneva03.asp
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 11:03am
Posted by Happy at 10/08/2009 @ 09:52am
So HAPP, you think General McChrystal is wrong and is UNDER-manning his call for forces????
((BTW, you won't be able to answer directly any inquiries like this because sooner or later...you'll prove my point. As one of our admited ditto-heads....you WILL embrace the contradictions that Limbaugh will spew out....attacking Obama for NOT supporting McChrystal a few days back....then attacking him FOR supporting McChrystal now.
Why?....simple-
"Obama Derangement Syndrome"!!!!...heheh))
Posted by Mask at 10/08/2009 @ 11:21am
is that a character flaw?
you've never heard of Liddell Hart, have you?
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 11:34am
nkurland
my statement may have been overly broad.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 11:39am
working hard on your asshole cred, ¿huh larry?
god's watching.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 12:02pm
HEARTS AND MINDS (AND BRAS)
KANDAHAR CITY, Afghanistan -- There's a giant blimp, white with three tail fins, hanging over the city these days and it's causing a stir among Kandaharis who believe the Americans are using it to spy on them.
And it could be they're right.
"Many people believe it's a spy blimp that can see through walls to look at our women," said Ghulam Ghami, a local fixer attuned to the buzz in coffee shops and kebab stands.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 12:03pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 11:03am
You mean the "Guantanamo Convention" Larry?
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 12:23pm
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 11:34am
No, by no means. And no, I hadn't heard of Liddell Hart until I googled him about 10 minutes ago.
That being said, Bacevich is a gem. His book "The Limits of Power" is a masterpiece and he uses his military experience to provide excellent insight on the current Afghan war. He represents the type of principled conservatism the GOP has completely trashed and thrown by the wayside. I couldn't be more serious, we need to be listening to this guy.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 12:33pm
It's not a question of "caving" to McChrystal, Robert, its a question of deciding which of two options he needs to take in light of the Generals request. The President needs to do one of two things:
Send the entire 40,000 troops the general is asking for: In fact send him 50,000, and then expect him to get his job done. He will have no excuses after that.
OR
Get the hell out right now. The worst thing he could do would be to try to molify vacilating libs by sending 12000, and then, when the general complains again, another 12000. Either send overwhelming force and crush the Taliban'a ability to make war, acceptinmg all that that entails, or forget it and get the hell out before half the army eithr become casualties or opium addicts.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/08/2009 @ 1:31pm
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/08/2009 @ 1:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
And therein, McChrystal's call for more troops w/o consultation with the CIC may be a blessing in disguise, and an act of Patriotism.
'Sh_t or get off the pot'
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 1:36pm
nothing personal, larry.
<i>All the world over, so easy to see People everywhere just wanna be free</i>
someone told me jesus wrote that.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 1:37pm
I hadn't heard of fill in the blank until I googled him about 10 minutes ago.
this is one of the great pleasures of this blog.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 2:08pm
if you learn today or twenty years ago, you still have learnt.
MY KNOWLEDGE IS GOOGLEPLEXIAN.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 2:21pm
someone told me jesus wrote that.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 1:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I don't mean to pick on you; everyone else does it also. but regardless of what you think of antisocialists arguments and values, it is inappropriate to ridicule his religious beliefs. I do not share his beliefs, and probably feel about them the same as you do, but everyone's faith should be respected (which doesn't mean it should be accepted as a legitimate political or moral consideration).
Rabbi Hillel taught not to do to someone else what you wouldn't want done to yourself. Jesus allegedly taught that one should do onto others as one would want done to /for oneself. Between them, Rabbi Hillel and Jesus summarized the entire Bible in two sentences.
Posted by gren at 10/08/2009 @ 2:53pm
Not to be rude, but you've never heard of Andrew Bacevich, have you?
~nkurland at 10:59am
is that a character flaw?
you've never heard of Liddell Hart, have you?
~emile duBois at 11:34am
Kinda bizarre since Andrew Bacevich's name has popped up here at the Nation, and its blog spaces not infrequently over the last year or more since he wrote The Limits of Power.
KvH has been a proponent of his eloquent arguments, and I know I certainly was heaping praise on his bold little --180 pages of lean muscular argument-- masterwork as well.
Pay attention, emile.
:D
P.S. The newest gem now in circulation, in my opinion, is Chris Hedges' "Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle".
I started on it last night and I think it's a blockbuster of on target observations, and a powerful indictment of what America has transmogrified into. Too bad such a small number of us will likely read it --not to mention "get it'.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 2:57pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 2:57pm
The Limits of Power took me two days of light reading to finish, it was brilliant. His critique of the national security apparatus is simply damning.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 3:00pm
WE should not listen to the military, they love war, else they would be in another line of work.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 10:32am | ignore this person | warn this per
Emile you clearly don't know anything about history or anything about the hearts & minds of the fine men and women who have and do serve in our military protecting you and your family. The vast majority of people who have served, especially those who have experienced combat, is the exact opposite. They don't love war, they hate it. They are in that line of work to protect this country.
But every once in a while you get someone who is ideologically bent or a traitor like McChrystal who is a neocon in the service of the British oligarchy who started the war in Afghanistan and want to see America continue to get bogged down in this otherwise useless war. McChrystal made his speech (before speaking with our Commander in Chief) before a like minded & receptive audience in London at the International Institute for Strategic Studies which is a leading MI6 front group. McChrystal's chief deputy in Afghanistan is British Lieutenant General Jim Dutton, who is coming to the end of his term and will soon be replaced by another British officer, Lieutenant General Nick Parker. At the conclusion of his speech he even encouraged the Brits to erect a statue to himself and his Brit generals. In recent years, MI6, and the neocons who dominate that spy outfit, have used the IISS to advance and perpetuate anti-American themes blaming us for the wars in Central Asia rather than British skulduggery. McChrystal is a traitor ever bit as much as Benedict Arnold. He in no way represents the fine men and women of our patriotic armed services.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 3:05pm
P.S. The newest gem now in circulation, in my opinion, is Chris Hedges' "Empire of Illusion: The End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle".
I started on it last night and I think it's a blockbuster of on target observations, and a powerful indictment of what America has transmogrified into. Too bad such a small number of us will likely read it --not to mention "get it'.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 2:57pm
Chris Hedges needs to do the country a favor and move to some nice secular socialist nation that is more suited to his animosities.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 3:05pm
Chris Hedges needs to do the country a favor and move to some nice secular socialist nation that is more suited to his animosities.
~"antisocialist"
And by comparison, you are the half-wit criticizing Einstein because E=mc2 makes absolutely no sense. Brilliant, Larry.
Are you capable of attempting to engage an elegant argument, or are you only intellectually equiped to smash things you don't understand?
Of course, I should know better than to respond to you since you've never shown the slightest inkling of shifting your view(s) after considered deliberation. You're a microcosm of why America is slipping into a coma of ignorance and fear.
Good luck with that mentality, "reverend"
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 3:21pm
Posted by nkurland
Nice to see others here enjoy sharply crackling argument and exposition.
Props, Nkurland
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 3:23pm
And, as you regulars to these blogs on The Nation know, I showed you that the person who first convinced Obama that this was a "good war" was the Brit leader of the neocons Tony Blair. Please understand that the neocon movement's leadership is in London not in the American Republican Party. Dick Cheney and his wife and his daughter are MI6 assets. They don't make a move without first getting advice and encouragement from their friends in London. It was MI6 assets who produced all the phony evidence about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The neocon movement is not a naturally developing movement out of American conservatism but a foreign intrigue. It rose out of the Fabian (old term for neocons) swamp controlling the various Trotskyite groups around the world but HQ'd in London. Even Trotsky himself was a Brit asset controlled by the infamous Russian-born British intelligence agent Alexander Helphand who actually invented the concept of "permanent war" pushed by the Trotskyites and the neocons.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 3:28pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 2:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person
oh, THAT Bacevich
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 3:33pm
antisocialist, AMERICA is a secular country, and all the better off for it too.
Hedges is a shockingly cowardly and wimpy and unprincipled and arrogant and over-dramatic and hyperbolic and self-obsessed monomaniac. He has no spine. His endless pseudo-uplifting moralizing tripe and incessant politically correct posturing, coupled with rigid ideological and circular arguments and an unquestioning religious faith in his own moral superiority, make him the most obviously self-deluding and pandering pseudo-intellectual I've yet seen. Hedges in fact holds that seperation of Mosque and state is insensitive, that secularists are the "real" fundamentalists, that Bush should have aplogized to jubilant Afghans after overthrowing the Taliban for having done so, that an imaginary "Christian Taliban" is the true threat, that global jihad is not a true threat and is caused by the cultural intolerance of the West towards Muslims (not the other way around), that there is no moral distinction between the United States and the Taliban, and that the religious beliefs of the Taliban should be respected (and that all non-Christian religions should likewise be shielded from criticism). He is a censor and a would-be dictator. He is more offended by Danish cartoons then genocide against Muslims in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Sudan. He has argued that the only reason Hitchens opposed the regime of Saddam Hussein was because, as a "militant secularist," he wanted to bomb and kill Muslims for fun.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 4:04pm
AP source: Obama focusing on al-Qaida, not Taliban
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091008/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_afghanistan
Hot off the press folks.
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 4:11pm
Well done disection, "rightwingnutcase".
Here's a link for you.
tinyurl.com/ykuzxbx
I think you'll enjoy the book --from your cell.
;-)
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 4:11pm
The title of this piece is, 'Will Obama cave to McChrystal?' Progressives have such a weird way of looking at things. Shouldn't it be, 'Will McChrystal cave to Obama?' McChrystal is the General on the ground with a job to do. Obama is just a politician with zero military experience. Yes, the question should be will McChrystal be the one to cave and in effect resign.
How does a General go back to his troops and tell them that their C.I.C. is more worried about his political ass than in their lives. It should be an easy call for McChrystal.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/08/2009 @ 4:12pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 4:04pm |
Who exactly should we be listening to? Norman Podhoretz? Daniel Pipes?
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 4:15pm
And a footnote to the other debate going on here which has nothing to do with the subject of this blog. Hitchens opposed the regime of Saddam Hussein was NOT SIMPLYbecause, "as a "militant secularist," he wanted to bomb and kill Muslims for fun." Hitchens is a leading anti-American ideological asset of MI6. Most of you think "spies" do things like they do in the movies. You could not be further from the truth. One of the main works of spy agencies, worldwide, is ideological intrigue and cultural war. And no spy agency is more adept at Kulturkampf than MI6 and the neocons and other twists on neoconism such as Hitchens. If you really want to understand anything involved in the various wars America is now waging, and if you really want to understand the neocon take over of the Republican Party (and I am not defending the Republicans or conservatism by no means) you need to understand Kulturkampf, the roots of anti-Americanism, and all the foreign intrigues coloring our domestic politics. If you don't learn and understand how the Brit neocons and their allies are effecting our domestic politics, then you don't understand anything.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 4:16pm
And by comparison, you are the half-wit criticizing Einstein because E=mc2 makes absolutely no sense. Brilliant, Larry.
Are you capable of attempting to engage an elegant argument, or are you only intellectually equiped to smash things you don't understand?
Of course, I should know better than to respond to you since you've never shown the slightest inkling of shifting your view(s) after considered deliberation. You're a microcosm of why America is slipping into a coma of ignorance and fear.
Good luck with that mentality, "reverend"
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 3:21pm
I have read Hedges and I watch him on programs like Democracy Now whenever he is on. I also have listened to him on Pacifica Radio, so I am well acquainted with his views and his hostility to America and to Christians and Jews.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 4:39pm
"I have read Hedges and I watch him on programs.... so I am well acquainted with his views and his hostility to America and to Christians and Jews."
~Anita Socialist
Well, there's no use wasting our time in a reasonable discussion then is there? Thanks for the insightful discussions here, Shadow boxer, nutcase et al. It's been a pleasure.
Peace out, ~B
P.S. "Gunslinger", I don't need my military experience to tell me you're as full of bluster as your huggies are full of shit.
So many of the "military types" who show up here are so obsequious and cowering to our military establishment that they make me nauseous. You're no exception, Nutlicker....I mean ..."gunslinger".
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 4:52pm
"Who exactly should we be listening to? Norman Podhoretz? Daniel Pipes?"
Christopher Hitchens and Mark Steyn.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 4:53pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 4:53pm
So one apologist and another Daniel Pipes offering the same views under a different name. Fantastic.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 4:57pm
I really think that anyone opposed to the war in Afghanistan should automatically lose the right to vote and become ineligible for public office.
To achieve nearly the same result while being more democratic about it, we could also install mandatory IQ tests that must be passed at a certain level of achievement in order to allow one to vote.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:00pm
"So one apologist and another Daniel Pipes offering the same views under a different name. Fantastic."
Podhoretz favors bombing Iran. Like every sane neocon, Hitchens understands this would be a catastrophe (in fact, even Bush did).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:02pm
I really think that anyone opposed to the war in Afghanistan should automatically lose the right to vote and become ineligible for public office.
To achieve nearly the same result while being more democratic about it, we could also install mandatory IQ tests that must be passed at a certain level of achievement in order to allow one to vote.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:00pm
So you're in favor of full frontal attacks on both freedom of speech and universal suffrage?
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 5:03pm
"So you're in favor of full frontal attacks on both freedom of speech and universal suffrage?"
No, I'm all for free speech. Protest in support of the Taliban and in favor of international women's rights all you want, but if you can't pass an IQ test, don't expect to be able to use yourself and your idiot allies to cancel out the votes of the intelligent.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:07pm
Nutcase,
I respect Hitchens greatly as an intellectual and eloquent defender of atheism, but his pro-Iraq war stance was badly misguided.
Even if you believed the Iraq invasion was justifiable --it categorically was not-- to trust Dubya and Co. to carry it out was pretty close to the pinacle of insanity. Same criticism goes to Tom Friedman who was an Iraq invasion proponent.
If America was a sane nation, we'd be drastically reducing the size and scope of our military establishment. Since that is not going to happen we will die by our own sword, ultimately.
By the way, here's an outstanding video that should be viewed by all those who love America and genuinely wish it well:
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17525.htm
The American political scene today is so psychotic we should expect nothing good to occur until something truly terrible happens first.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 5:08pm
"... but if you can't pass an IQ test..."
~Nutcase
IQ is hardly a sufficient requirement for the viability of an individual's views. Plenty of nutjobs who regularly stain these threads with bombast and assorted intellectual feces are not unintelligent --just poorly raised, uncivil and possessing ill disposition.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 5:16pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:07pm
I'm failing to see the justification, which seems to be a naive assumption that since someone disagrees with you on your pro-war stance, they must have a lower IQ. Nor do I see how its remotely justifiable to strip anyone opposed to the war of their right to vote or run for office. If, as your side claims, we're fighting to preserve freedom, how exactly are we going to do that while simultaneously rolling back constitutional rights in the name of winning the war. Logical inconsistency much?
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 5:16pm
Another footnote, since his name was mentioned above.
Daniel Pipes is not only an MI6 asset he is a member of a long-existing secret society involved with British Kulturkampf against America since before the Revolutionary War called the Hellsfire Club which later morphed into the Fabians which later morphed into the neocons. The Hellsfire Club crew are active in just about every anglophile organization of the so called American "establishment". As to Podhoritz and the other prominent neocons, simply look at their Trotskyite roots and especially their involvement with the Project For A New American Century where they laid out their program for permanent war by the U.S. acting as surrogate for the British imperialists, and taking all the blame (anti-Americanism). Podhoritz's magazine Commentary has been a major publication for Kulturkampf by MI6 for many years. Many traditional conservative's know that the neocons are not a "natural" American political phenomenon; it is past time that the left woke up to foreign intrigue.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 5:19pm
"I'm failing to see the justification, which seems to be a naive assumption that since someone disagrees with you on your pro-war stance, they must have a lower IQ. Nor do I see how its remotely justifiable to strip anyone opposed to the war of their right to vote or run for office. If, as your side claims, we're fighting to preserve freedom, how exactly are we going to do that while simultaneously rolling back constitutional rights in the name of winning the war. Logical inconsistency much?"
I was joking when I said they shouldn't be allowed to hold office. You're right, an IQ test could hypothetically impact my side as much as yours, so there is nothing undemocratic about it, except that you are the only one worried about how it might affect your movement's ability to affect change.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:25pm
And if an IQ test weeds out the sex-hating drug-outlawing right-wing misogynists, racists, religious fundamentalists and Nixonions as well, then all the better.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:32pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:25pm
It doesn't matter whether or not it affects one side more than the other, it matters that it would unjustifiably restrict the influence of public opinion. It would instantly reverse God knows how many years of progress. And statements such as "you are the only one worried about how it might affect your movement's ability to affect change," are all too obvious attempts to patronize and play politics. Its pretty pathetic.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 5:35pm
"...an IQ test could hypothetically impact my side as much as yours..."
~Nutcase
There's the crux of the biscuit. This isn't really about "sides". The sides are mostly a made up concoction by the perveyors of propaganda housed in "think tanks" and ultimately funded by corporate juggernauts to keep us all in the dark and at each others throats while the super wealthy and politically well-connected loll on beaches at their fifth homes.
Instead of "right" versus "left" a more meaningful and accurate alignment based on reality would have the masses versus the power brokers, and mega thieves.
It's an old, old story and too many --sadly-- remain badly bamboozled.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 5:35pm
"It would instantly reverse God knows how many years of progress."
What's wrong with only letting intelligent people vote?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:39pm
"Instead of "right" versus "left" a more meaningful and accurate alignment based on reality would have the masses versus the power brokers, and mega thieves."
Marxist.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:43pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:39pm
What's wrong with giving everyone an equal say in choosing their government? Answer that and then we'll talk.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 5:43pm
"What's wrong with giving everyone an equal say in choosing their government? Answer that and then we'll talk."
I think at the very least you should have to get an average score on an IQ test to vote. Idiots should not cancel out the votes of the intelligent.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:47pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:47pm
What you call IQ I call formal education. Besides, there's this thing called the 14th Amendment, perhaps you've heard of it.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 5:52pm
Rabbi Hillel taught not to do to someone else what you wouldn't want done to yourself. Jesus allegedly taught that one should do onto others as one would want done to /for oneself. Between them, Rabbi Hillel and Jesus summarized the entire Bible in two sentences.
Posted by gren at 10/08/2009 @ 2:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person
This one is for you Gren.
http://www.8fun8.com/video_3dSHl3C9kgY.html
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 5:52pm
By the way, here's an outstanding video that should be viewed by all those who love America and genuinely wish it well:
www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17525.htm
The American political scene today is so psychotic we should expect nothing good to occur until something truly terrible happens first.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/08/2009 @ 5:08pm
It wouldn't be the Nation website without our daily dose of anti-semitism
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 5:54pm
"What you call IQ I call formal education."
Are you suggesting everyone is naturally equally academically and intellectually gifted and has the same intellectual capacity?
I'm sure you're not the only naive leftist who believes that if that happens to be your intent.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:55pm
Will Obama cave?
I certainly hope not! Obama is commander in chief. He's not supposed to cave to anyone in his command.
I trust he listens. But he's the president, not McChrystal.
I just hope Obama is capable of making an actual decision.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/08/2009 @ 5:59pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:55pm
I'm saying there are plenty of people who come off as unintelligent due to a lack of formal education. Not everyone, or nearly everyone. Besides, the 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law.
Posted by nkurland at 10/08/2009 @ 6:00pm
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 5:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Shadow - Ms. V knows too. Take solace.
She rails against Fabian Socialists, and warns against EU, which is a stepping stone to New World Order.
Pretty scary stuff on both sides of the Atlantic.
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 6:11pm
"It wouldn't be the Nation website without our daily dose of anti-semitism"
Well, we usually are treated to more than one dose a day. Just wait until the virulently Jew-hating Shingo signs on. If today's a good day, maybe we'll even get hysterical cries of explicit "I wear the label of anti-semitism as a badge of honor" from excalibur or perhaps some more Mein Kampf imitations from IlyaKuryakin.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 6:12pm
I think at the very least you should have to get an average score on an IQ test to vote. Idiots should not cancel out the votes of the intelligent.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Naturalized citizen tests for instance. Have a basic literacy requirement and a test on civics and American government.
Like a driver's test.
Hmmmmm......maybe not a bad idea.
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 6:19pm
but if you can't pass an IQ test, don't expect to be able to use yourself and your idiot allies to cancel out the votes of the intelligent.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 5:07pm
It didn't stop Bush from trying,
Posted by Shingo at 10/08/2009 @ 6:23pm
It didn't stop Bush from trying,
Posted by Shingo at 10/08/2009 @ 6:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Is RightWingNut the alter ego of Shingo? - lol.....
Welcome Shingo!
Posted by OneVote at 10/08/2009 @ 6:25pm
I'm saying there are plenty of people who come off as unintelligent due to a lack of formal education.
it is often a matter of speech, accents and such, which is a separate issue from education.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/08/2009 @ 8:46pm
As I mentioned Daniel Pipes above, I thought, before I leave this blog, that I would give you a few more pointers on this fine fellow. The Hellsfire faction of Anglo/Dutch intelligence has been responsible for nearly 200 years in teh spread of pornography around the world and the subversion of other nations (as well as their countries) laws against pornography as a method of kulturkampf. Just after the victory at Yorktown, Lord Conwallis (a leader of Hellsfire at the time) threatened G. Washington with war by subversion, with kulturkamph, including pornography. And in the years just after the British defeat in the War of 1912, it was Hellsfire that encouraged and coordinated the rise of organized crime including the consolidation of the Sicilian gangs into the Mafia. This faction of British intelligence has always had the portfolio of running world wide organized crime. It was they who started the Opium Wars to destroy China, and who were behind the forming of Skull & Bones in this country and with their opium dealing allies in American shipping, at the time, formed the backbone of what is now called the American Establishment.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 9:58pm
Shadowknows is utterly crazy.
"The Hellsfire faction of Anglo/Dutch intelligence has been responsible for nearly 200 years in teh spread of pornography around the world and the subversion of other nations (as well as their countries) laws against pornography as a method of kulturkampf."
Even if true, what's wrong with that? Pornography has a very healthy role to play in society, given that masturbation does prolong life expectancy, improve concentration, better performance on tests, relieve people of stress and tension, and help them focus. We should be more like the Japanese, who are much more open about sexuality. You are less likely to be raped in Japan than any other country in the world.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 10:09pm
And, now one last remark on Mr. Pipes. Investigate his involvement with the Scottish Rite & particularly with Montifiore Lodge 78 in Israel which was formed at the end of the War of 1912 as an offshoot of the Hellsfire factions Moira & Emulation lodges in London which served Hellsfire's Jewish members. It was these lodges (run at the time by Nathan Meyer Rothschild) that continued with Lord Conwallis's threat. And it was they, with the support of Hellsfire's leader Lord Palmerston (head of Brit Intelligence under Q. Victoria), that first spread the idea of "zionism" (an invention of Palmerston not any Jew) among European Jews. As Hellsfire morphed into the Fabians, it was these secret zionist lodges & the Scottish Rite that spread the idea of zionism, sent their agents to America in the form of the Scottish Rite and B'nai Brith to instigate the Civil War, and afterwords organized the KKK to spread terror in America. I am sure that bloggers like antisocialist will now declare me an anti-semitic, but I am not. I have great respect and sympathy for all Jews who survived the Nazi Holocaust and great respect for their religion. But I will not turn a blind eye to how zionism was formed and how it took over the Jewish population. And don't call me a "conspiracy theorist" either. This is just history. Go to your library and read.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 10:12pm
"And don't call me a "conspiracy theorist" either."
But you're practically asking for it!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 10:15pm
And don't call me a "conspiracy theorist" either. This is just history. Go to your library and read.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 10:12pm
we don't need to. you're doing fine on your own.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/08/2009 @ 10:18pm
And now my final point on pornography, as it exists today. Investigate the Scottish Rite support for young Hugh Hefner who started the modern spread of pornography in America. Who do you think actually wrote his "Playboy Philosophy" Go back and look at interviews he has given over the years and you will know this man does not have the capacity to write what he has written. But some faceless committee in London surely did. Hefner is just a pimp they found to front for their kulturkampf subversion.
Pornography, organized crime, zionism, many forms of socialism esp. Trotskyism, and now the neocons are all just a few of the many tentacles of the Anglo/Dutch oligarchy and its intelligence services. Their combined purpose: the enslavement of mankind.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 10:19pm
"Go back and look at interviews he has given over the years and you will know this man does not have the capacity to write what he has written"
Duh.
"But some faceless committee in London surely did."
Whatever you say...
"Pornography, organized crime, zionism, many forms of socialism esp. Trotskyism, and now the neocons are all just a few of the many tentacles of the Anglo/Dutch oligarchy and its intelligence services. Their combined purpose: the enslavement of mankind."
WTF????????????
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 10:23pm
By the way, you don't think porn and crime are universal in human societies and have been through all history?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 10:28pm
Posted by gren at 10/08/2009 @ 2:53pm
i don't ridicule larry's beliefs.
jesus rocks!
just tryin' to get larry to see past the hype and find the lord that is trying to find him.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 10:31pm
Jesus allegedly taught that one should do onto others as one would want done to /for oneself.
Posted by gren at 10/08/2009 @ 2:53pm
i doubt larry wants to be cluseter-bombed.
but, hey, thanks for your consideration.
god bless.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2009 @ 10:33pm
WTF????????????
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 10:23pm
Typical response from any ignoramus who doesn't visit the library, doesn't read, and knows absolutely nothing about history, and until, my blogs here, probably never heard of the word kulturkampf. Ignorance is why the Anglo/Dutch oligarchy is able to get away with what they get away with all these years - subversion, crime and the organizing of wars.
And once last point (I promise), the leading kulturkamph outfit of British intelligence today in America (besides all those right-wing outfits funded by Wall St. investment banking/espionage outfits) is Vanity Fair magazine and its writers. Magazines are a great way to engage in kulturkampf. (I won't get started on certain newspapers). But suffice it to be known, that the Anglo/Dutch oligarchy's kulturkampf warriors are active on both the right and the left and throughout the publishing world.
Their strategy, today, is similar to that of just before the Civil War; get the factions fighting each other and tear the country apart. Its called Divide & Concour.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 10:58pm
Actually, I have heard the word kulturkampf before and love to learn about history.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 11:04pm
Oops, typo. Divide and Conquer. But you know what I mean since your investigating my points. (You are researching aren't you? You do have a library card don't you? You are investigating history aren't you? You do have an open mind don't you? You don't just have knee-jerk reactions or do you?)
You can't understand the neocons such as McChrystal unless you understand who birthed the neocons.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 11:05pm
Again, you don't think porn and crime are universal in human societies and have been through all history? You think a Dutch/British conspiracy has exported it with the help of crafty Jews all around the entire world?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 11:08pm
Again, you don't think porn and crime are universal in human societies and have been through all history? You think a Dutch/British conspiracy has exported it with the help of crafty Jews all around the entire world?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/08/2009 @ 11:08pm
Not simply crafty Jews, but crafty assets in every nation and every culture and every religion and every political tendency. Remember the old saying "The Sun Never Sets on the British Empire". MI6 and its allies, and the oligarchs in control, are nothing if not thorough. Recently, Gore Vidal, who wrote that brilliant book on the traitor Aaron Burr, said that we have the most clever ruling class in history. He was only half right.
So how do you tell the bad guys from the good guys? The only way I know is to trace their history and the history of the ideas they proffer. And you must have a world view not a provincial viewpoint. And you must try and understand and expose the covert side of history as well as the overt.
And you can continue your ridicule if you want (and others can call me names attack me ad hominem if they want) but wouldn't it help your position better if you were to actually try and prove me wrong? Go for it.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 05:21am
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 05:21am
In a way, I feel sorry for these Conspiracy Theorists.
It's not just a "hobby" with many of them, and so they live their lives in fear and dread of "Jews"..."the British Royalty"..."the Bildebergers"..."the Reptilians"....with only the slim (and of course never-to-be-realized) hope that "the sheeple will WAKE UP!"
Every day..every week...every month...every year...year after year after year...until they keel over at 90 at the keyboard, with "Them" still running the world and only a handful of new recruits "realizing the Truth!!!!"
Honestly, it's really one of the saddest ways for a human being to live out their life.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 07:33am
Honestly, it's really one of the saddest ways for a human being to live out their life.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 07:33am
I agree. Good thing I am not a conspiracy theorist and have only been doing this blogging thing for a while to practice my rhetoric and to see how the attacks come for my opinions which will be backed up by numerous footnotes in my new book which will be out soon. You will learn even more when you read it about the neocons and the neolibs (Mask, my friend). You will probably know it and who I am by the title. Thanks a lot Mask for all your help. Hope you like the read. (Hope you pay for it and don't shoplift it from your nearest bookstore. Ha, Ha) And again it isn't MY truth, simply the facts of history. And as for people waking up, many already have. As for the rest I gave up a long, long time ago hoping that the rest of the world would come to realize all the things that you know but don't want to admit knowing. I am sure you are quite an educated fellow, Mask, despite your displays of ignorance and fits of juvenile ridicule. And as for me, I'm content and I live my life quite happy, thank you.
But for now I am done with you guys who live to blog. This is way too tiresome. And besides none of you can actually refute my opinions with any facts. Only thing I really learned from this experience is that some of you guys are ideologically hidebound and that many of you have the education of a third grader. And of course, there are some of you who are adult & open-minded, but you are few and far between on the blogs. And of course, there are the staffers at The Nation who blog here under several screennames to stir controversy to help sell the magazine. Good luck to all of you, good luck to The Nation, and happy blogging.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 08:50am
Honestly, it's really one of the saddest ways for a human being to live out their life.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 07:33am | ignore this person | warn this person
Drink deep the Kool-Aid.
Apple, Berry Blue, Black Cherry, Bunch Berry, Blastin' Berry Cherry, Cherry, Cherry Cracker, Chocolate, Cola, Eerie Orange, Frutas, Frutas Vermelhas, Golden Nectar, Grape, Grape Blackberry, Grapeberry Splash, Great Bluedini, Groselha, Guaraná,Ice Blue Raspberry Lemonade, Incrediberry, Kickin-Kiwi-Lime, Kolita, Lemon, Lemonade, Lemonade Sparkle, Lemon-Lime, Man-o-Mangoberry, Mango, Mountainberry Punch, Oh-Yeah Orange-Pineapple, Orange, Orange Enerjooz, Pina-Pineapple, Pink Lemonade, Pink Swimmingo, Purplesaurus Rex, Rainbow Punch, Raspberry, Roarin' Raspberry Cranberry, Rock-a-Dile Red, Root Beer, Scary Black Cherry, Scary Blackberry, Sharkleberry Fin, Slammin' Strawberry-Kiwi, Soarin' Strawberry-Lemonade, Strawberry, Strawberry Falls Punch, Strawberry Split, Strawberry-Raspberry, Sunshine Punch, Surfin' Berry Punch, Tangerine, Tropical Punch, Watermelon-Cherry, Shakin' Starfruit.
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 10:37am
'Bradley Birkenfeld, a 44-year-old U.S. citizen, has been hailed by his attorneys and prosecutors alike as pivotal to the tax case against UBS (VTX:UBSN.VX - News; NYSE:UBS - News), his former employer.
The case centered on UBS's private banking business and on wealthy Americans who used their Swiss accounts to hide money overseas to evade taxes. In August, UBS agreed to turn over 4,450 names of American clients with undisclosed offshore accounts to settle a civil suit by the U.S. government.
By coming forward in the summer of 2007 and volunteering insider information to the Justice Department, Birkenfeld exposed a "massive fraud scheme" that probably never would have been discovered otherwise, said Kevin Downing, a senior Justice Department trial lawyer who spoke at his sentencing in Fort Lauderdale on August 21 Justice Department officials, in a claim disputed by Birkenfeld's supporters, said the punishment was meted out because Birkenfeld had initially sought to conceal his personal involvement in tax fraud.
Lawyers and whistle-blower advocates have expressed outrage over the sentence. They said they had expected Birkenfeld to get off with just a fine and probation, given that his voluntary disclosure of UBS practices led the company to settle criminal charges by paying $780 million and promising to name thousands of suspected American tax cheats and exit the U.S. tax-shelter business............
"By prosecuting Brad, it is going to greatly harm IRS efforts to encourage future whistle-blowers," said Birkenfeld lawyer Dean Zerbe, former tax counsel for the Senate Finance Committee.'
Prosecution of UBS informant seen backfiring on U.S. On 9:49 am EDT, Friday October 9, 2009 Tom Brown - Excerpts - Yahoo Finance
"Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 10:43am
Now, see the saga of Charles Rangel.
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 10:45am
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 08:50am
I believe absolutely none of what you wrote in that post....is true. None. Not one sentence.
Weird, huh?
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 10:53am
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 10:45am
Speaking of weird...again odd, how a "independent progressive" such as yourself is also onboard for a key RIGHT-wing talking point, one that I've seen mentioned numerous times by conservative bloggers on other sites and endless mentioned on Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc....i.e. the Rangel scandal.
Just.....odd.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 10:56am
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 08:50am
I believe absolutely none of what you wrote in that post....is true. None. Not one sentence.
Weird, huh?
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 10:53am | ignore this person | warn this person
Yes, since some people believe we are the same guy trying to build up subscriptions to The Nation. But we know that isn't true, don't we?
Posted by dont_know at 10/09/2009 @ 11:32am
I am neither of you guys and this is nonsense. You guys are truly demented and refuse to look at facts. Next you will accuse me of being Happy or BigPasture or OneVote. Fact is that I am an academic historian at a major university, have written several books that have been well received, and from the lack of true knowledge by bloggers on The Nation I think my next book will do very well. What nonsense. If I blog again it won't be on The Nation but on Huffington Post where there are only adults. Dont_know and Mask please stay here.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 11:37am
I am neither of you guys and this is nonsense. You guys are truly demented and refuse to look at facts. Next you will accuse me of being Happy or BigPasture or OneVote. Fact is that I am an academic historian at a major university, have written several books that have been well received, and from the lack of true knowledge by bloggers on The Nation I think my next book will do very well. What nonsense. If I blog again it won't be on The Nation but on Huffington Post where there are only adults. Dont_know and Mask please stay here.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 11:37am
If you are an academic historian as you claim, you represent the very reason I left that field of study.
I would not be surprised if you are actually a leftist historian. I met a number of them who were just as insane as you are when I was working towards my degree.
there was a time when historians held a position of honor and prestige. Because of radical revisionists like yourself, that is no longer the case.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/09/2009 @ 11:54am
Just.....odd.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 10:56am | ignore this person | warn this person
Clearly discrimination against a black man, and Bama Justice Department is going to a stop to it.
Hehehehe...........
And Jack Ruby had ties to the Crown family, your boy's benefactor. See General Dynamics, LBJ, McNamara......
Now does a Chicago mobster end up killing Oswald again Maskie....hmmmmmmm?
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 11:55am
there was a time when historians held a position of honor and prestige. Because of radical revisionists like yourself, that is no longer the case.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/09/2009 @ 11:54am
Revisionism is in the eye of the beholder. And where Mask just stirs the pot to sell magazines, you are one of the hidebound ideologues. And for both of you, you don't have to believe a word I write, just investigate for yourselves. Oh, heck, why am I even suggesting that? You won't seek knowledge or the truth as you both are not interested. For those with an open mind, meet you on the HP.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 12:20pm
For those with an open mind, meet you on the HP.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 12:20pm
Now that is laughable. The HP would be one of the last places that someone with an open mind goes to find truth or objectivity.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/09/2009 @ 12:42pm
And wonders of wonders, Charlie Rangel is a big supporter of aid to Israel.
'Rangel was instrumental in securing American materiel support for Israel during the Yom Kippur War of 1973. According to fellow Congressman Jerrold Nadler D-NY, who worked on Rangel's first campaign in 1970 and who credited Rangel with helping to support Israel in 1973'
Wiki
My goodness. Maybe that money could actually go to help black folks here at home................
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 12:45pm
But at least on the HP and some other blogs I am debating educated adults. I expected more from The Nation. But as I said trying to educate you morons has been useful.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 2:12pm
But at least on the HP and some other blogs I am debating educated adults. I expected more from The Nation. But as I said trying to educate you morons has been useful.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 2:12pm
No elitism with you is there?
So, you think you are the only one here that is educated?
I think you are better off at the HP with the rest of the elitist snobs who all pat themselves on the back for being so superior in their own minds.
You are becoming cartoonish.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/09/2009 @ 2:47pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/09/2009 @ 2:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Thank you again for all the help you have been in formulating the arguments for my book. I think you, and your alter ego Mask, have actually have made me some money.
Posted by dont_know at 10/09/2009 @ 3:05pm
"But at least on the HP and some other blogs I am debating educated adults. I expected more from The Nation. But as I said trying to educate you morons has been useful."
~shadowknows at 2:12pm
I find your stuff intriguing, Shadow boxer, but only as a case study in the absurdity of the human condition.
None of us here has to "prove you wrong". On the contrary, the onus is on you to make a case that is compelling. In the immortal words of the late great Carl Sagan, "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".
Saying that such and such is so --especially the massive amounts of astonishing assertions you make-- doesn't make it so. Most of us here understand that small conspiracies are not uncommon, and we should all agree that the actions of governments and big corporations often appear conspiratorial, but that is a far cry from a proven conspiracy.
For every "proven" conspiracy there are probably hundreds of accusations of conspiracy. If you wish to even pique my attention, you've got a long way to go from what I've seen on this thread.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/09/2009 @ 3:06pm
Posted by dont_know at 10/09/2009 @ 11:32am
See and SNOBBY conspiracy theorists are even worse....LOL
Though most of them do take on an air of "I'm better than you poor dopes who don't believe what I believe about the Cabal"...it's inherent to the condition.
Plus you have to created "auxilliary conspiracies", like "Nation writers posing as 'civilian' posters" to try to under cut them.
Also expect endless "Ha! I'm leaving this blog and going somewhere I'm appreciated for the genius I am"....when mocked and laughed at.
It's pretty routine stuff now on the Internet.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 3:11pm
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 12:20pm
BTW, how many issues of "The Nation" do you think their BLOG POSTS sell?!?!?!?!?
LOL
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 3:13pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 10/09/2009 @ 3:06pm | ignore this person | warn this person
There is no room in these blogs to make a case that is compelling and that was not my purpose in putting all my "assertions" out there. I will leave that to my book. For some of you, those with open minds or who actually know some of what I have written, I gave you pointers for your own research. Most of which is easily verifiable if you do some discovery work and don't just complain that I have not verified it for you. For those of you who only see what I presented as "conspiracy theory", you, I could never convince nor be compelling as you do not believe there is such a thing as the covert side of history and most of you are wedded to your ideologies. As Mask said, he doesn't believe one thing I wrote. And he never will. His worldview is the plain vanilla world of the status quo and any information that varies from that bourgeois worldview must be wrong, crazy or conspiracy theory. And any warning you receive from us "conspiracy theorists" you dismiss as just fear mongering. For your sake, I hope the bad guys I see out there are not creeping up on you. You all remind me of children who don't know they are in a combat zone.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 3:55pm
how many issues of "The Nation" do you think their BLOG POSTS sell?!?!?!?!?
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 3:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You tell me, Mask. I am sure your accounting department can give you the stats.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 3:58pm
Also expect endless "Ha! I'm leaving this blog and going somewhere I'm appreciated for the genius I am"....when mocked and laughed at.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 3:11pm | ignore this person | warn this person
And again, dear Mask, I did not join this blog to be appreciated. I joined precisely to elicit the mocking and the LOLs so that I could judge the range of your firepower. If along the way I helped someone, anyone, reading these blogs to do their own discovery work about history, well that is gravy and I am humbled to have been of help. And I doubt that I am a genius or have any special powers of perception. I just read a lot. Something I have encouraged you all to do. But clearly, most of you prefer your ideologies to learning anything new from me, other bloggers, or your own scholarship. I will leave this blog, after today, only because I am tired and I have what I came to get, not because of your LOLs. Besides, I may be back someday. Just for the fun of it. But don't worry, I know you guys will either keep bickering among yourselves like old married couples or find someone else to LOL at. Blogging is your life not mine. You have served my purposes and I thank you.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 4:23pm
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 4:23pm
Well, goodbye shadowknows. You've done a good service here. I've learned that batshit crazy is out there and, perhaps, I should be a little more tolerant of the garden variety loons that frequent this forum.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/09/2009 @ 4:57pm
Posted by shadowknows at 10/08/2009 @ 10:19pm
Um, I used to work for Hugh Hefner directly, and you're oh so very wrong. The man is incredibly intelligent and hangs out (or has hung out) with some of the 20th century's greatest minds and thinkers.
Smart men enjoy sex too, ya know.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/09/2009 @ 5:08pm
....I may be back someday. Just for the fun of it...
Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 4:23pm
Interesting and perhaps.....too revealing?
An academic snob who "just read a lot" for pay....finds sparring with sub-adults at The Nation to be, fun?
You, sir, is a pedophile!
Posted by Happy at 10/09/2009 @ 5:09pm
<i>Posted by shadowknows at 10/09/2009 @ 4:23pm </i>
How about we start from square one. You've made a vast claim...now back it up. If you can't do that, you have no business mocking anyone who rejects your position.
Posted by Thrawn at 10/09/2009 @ 5:17pm
Word has it that McCrystal is claiming 40,000 troops is the minmimum necessary to win. This, after word got out that his report contained a possible 60,000 troop increase
Posted by nkurland at 10/09/2009 @ 9:47pm
Oh Droopy you just wanted him to say he was going to manage his real estate interests in Dallas. They were more fun for him and some of his investments were also making him money. You know the market tanked under Bush but it was coming back under Obama. Oh you can't do that,you have totear our President down. I have a solution. Send all of your profits to the Republican party and tell them how much the market crash helped you to see the light.
Posted by whatozz at 10/10/2009 @ 09:35am
Posted by OneVote at 10/09/2009 @ 10:45am
Speaking of weird...again odd, how a "independent progressive" such as yourself is also onboard for a key RIGHT-wing talking point, one that I've seen mentioned numerous times by conservative bloggers on other sites and endless mentioned on Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc....i.e. the Rangel scandal.
Just.....odd.
Posted by Mask at 10/09/2009 @ 10:56am | ignore this person | warn this person
'Daily Kos
Rangel needs to step down by kos
Rangel needs to step down Fri Oct 09, 2009 at 08:42:02 AM PDT'
Odd indeed Mask.
Posted by OneVote at 10/10/2009 @ 11:53am
Ya Mask, even Alterman was calling for the resignation of Rangel in 08, really a let down, but you have to weed um out where ever they are. Makes me really sad, but me thinks he's got to go.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 12:10pm
Eisenhower warned, Kennedy warned.
When government's account is presumed to be true, and a citizen's account is presumed to be false, and the burden of proof is on the ordinary citizen to prove his case irrefutably against the vast resources of government and a media that are essentially the same entity, you know you have arrived to the place which Eisenhower and Kennedy warned us of.
The branding of 'Conspiracy Theorists' as lunatic fringe to be disregarded is part of the process that has been underway for some time. This process is hand maiden to death of investigative journalism. When 'Conspiracy Theory' automatically evokes the image of lunatic fringe in the mass media market, you know you have arrived to the place which Eisenhower and Kennedy warned us of.
Posted by OneVote at 10/10/2009 @ 12:45pm
Theories on JFK assassination still abound
Deseret News (Salt Lake City), Nov 22, 2003 | by Penny Cockerell Associated Press - Excerpts
'DALLAS -- Forty years after John F. Kennedy's assassination, an overwhelming majority of Americans do not believe the official conclusion that a loser named Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed the president with a cheap mail-order rifle fired from the Texas School Book Depository........................
Yet, today only 32 percent of American adults accept that finding, according to an ABC News poll. The poll, conducted earlier this month, found that 70 percent think the assassination was part of a broader plot; 51 percent believe there was a second gunman; and more than two-thirds believe there was a government cover-up.
In 1966, three years after Kennedy's death, 46 percent of people surveyed in a Harris poll believed the assassination was part of a broader plot. By 1983, that number had reached 80 percent in an ABC poll..............'
The majority of Americans don't believe in the government's account of 9/11. Google it.
The Warren Commission and the 9/11 Commission.....hahaha.....vanguard of truth. This is the "conspiracy theory" that we should worry about.
Posted by OneVote at 10/10/2009 @ 2:18pm
So, OneVote, if the government pulled off 9/11, why do you want it to control your healthcare?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/10/2009 @ 8:07pm
Um, I used to work for Hugh Hefner directly, and you're oh so very wrong. The man is incredibly intelligent and hangs out (or has hung out) with some of the 20th century's greatest minds and thinkers.
Smart men enjoy sex too, ya know.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/09/2009 @ 5:08pm
Had a couple of minutes to kill, so thought I would check back in and read the ridicule, name calling and ad hominem and sure enough it is here.
But what caused me to post this quickly, and then to move on to more "snobby" activities is the posting above of Stephen Carver1 who admits to DIRECTLY working with the pimp and pornograpner Hugh Hefner who hangs out with some of the 20th centuries greatest minds and thinkers". This of course was my point of why Hugh Hefner has been such a dangerous figure in the oligarchy's cultural war to degenerate and dumb down Americans. Now I praise Playboy magazine for the support it gave all these years to the civil rights movement. Right on! But that support and any other "good deeds" by the pornographers at Playboy (which seem to include Stephen_Carver1) has just been a fig leaf ov cover for their pornography. And, yes "smart men enjoy sex", but enjoing healthy sex with your spouse is not anywhere near the same thing as promoting pornography to undermine the morals of a country as Hefner has done. Oh, and I know there are also many, many pornographers who are far worse than anything HH has done, but it was Hefner and his "Playboy Philosophy" that opened the door for all the worse pornographers to flood our nation with their wares. Also, in recent years HH has been a major funder of the black anarchist movements displays of temper at G8/G20 meetings, channeling his pornography billions into anarchy & chaos. See you later, much later.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/11/2009 @ 05:18am
Oh, one thing before I go, One_Vote if you want to know who attacked us on 9/11, as I have mentioned on other blogs here, examine the papers discovered by the 9/11 families lawsuit. In them you will see that clearly the "magnificent 19" were being paid and organized by Saudi Prince Turki al-Faisa's intelligence service with funding from the British BAE, a front for MI6 skulduggery.
In this "batshit crazy" writers opinion, we were attacked on 9/11 so that the MI6 asset/collaborator Dick Cheney (and others) could implement all that they did under Bush/Cheney. I do not believe the U.S. government attacked us, but I do believe that assets of the international oligarchy working within our intelligence, military and press helped cover the truth up.
P.S., just to drive you guys crazy who don't like "conspiracy theories" . Dick & Lynn Cheney's controller at Thames House is Baroness Symons who is also an official of BAE.
Oops, there I go being batshit crazy again. Got to go now and make love to my wife before I resume serious writing to make some money and pay my bills.
Once, again, been fun.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/11/2009 @ 05:31am
So, OneVote, if the government pulled off 9/11, why do you want it to control your healthcare?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/10/2009 @ 8:07pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Lesser of two evils.
Posted by OneVote at 10/11/2009 @ 10:29am
I do not believe the U.S. government attacked us, but I do believe that assets of the international oligarchy working within our intelligence, military and press helped cover the truth up.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/11/2009 @ 05:31am | ignore this person | warn this person
Well, this makes them at the very least accessory to crime. Go directly to jail in "monopoly" parlance.
Aside from the first two towers that went down, go to YouTube and watch WTC 7 come down over and over again.
This is a controlled demolition. The report on WTC 7 did not come out till 2008. Why didn't the 9/11 commission consider it? Reports of on the ground explosions (demo charges) completely dismissed. Listen to the video tapes of the explosions. These are demo charges-sharp blasts characteristic of plastique explosive:
'Common plastic explosives include Semtex and C-4. Plastic explosives are especially suited for explosive demolition as they can be easily formed into the best shapes for cutting structural members, and have a high enough velocity of detonation and density for metal cutting work.'
Wiki
Navy Seals will agree.
The vast resources necessary to pull off 9/11 and to cover it up reveal to me a "working partners" relationship.
I would like to have some answers, preferably credible ones.
And, as best I can tell, MI6 has been involved with our military adventures for a long time. "Mutual Interests"
MI6 helped us train Taliban - MI6 along with CIA and Mossad tried to overthrow Iranian government in recent elections.
The interrelationships obviously point to an "oligarchy" pulling the strings. The Anglo-Dutch likely is too simplistic, although historically likely very accurate.
Deep digging. Keep questioning.
Posted by OneVote at 10/11/2009 @ 11:00am
Posted by shadowknows at 10/11/2009 @ 05:31am | ignore this person | warn this person
BTw - you are already onto this connection.............
'Nearly 900 people perished when the Estonia ferry sank in 1994. In this exclusive investigation, Stephen Davis reveals that the ship was carrying a secret cargo of military equipment smuggled from the Russians by the British.....
The Swedish government at first promised to raise the wreck and to spare no cost in finding the cause of the disaster. But then it changed its mind, refusing all pleas from the bereaved relatives to bring the Estonia to the surface, even though it lay in shallow waters. The subsequent Estonia Agreement 1995 sought to prevent any exploration of the wreck, which lies in international waters. The agreement was signed by Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Denmark, Russia and, strangely, Britain, which has no obvious connection to the Baltic. One Briton, John Manning, died in the disaster; a second, Paul Barney of Pangbourne, Berkshire, survived after swimming to an upturned raft and clinging on in stormy seas until he was rescued
The Swedish government, moreover, had hired divers from Rockwater, a British-based division of the American Halliburton group, run between 1995 and 2000 by Dick Cheney, now US vice-president. They produced 13 videotapes showing the wreck, they said, from every angle. But one angle was missing and some Swedish politicians argued that the videos had been edited. As Lennart Berglund, chairman of the Foundation of Estonia Victims and Relatives, said after Bemis's expedition: "There's still a lot of evidence down there. Their major argument was that there was nothing new - now there is something new."
Posted by OneVote at 10/11/2009 @ 11:34am
The Baltic nations, however, remained firm in saying there would be no new inquiry.
See:
Death in the Baltic - the MI6 Connection Stephen Davis Monday 23rd May 2005
Rockwater - British based division of Halliburton....Dick Cheney.....MI6
Good work Shaddow....
The sinking of this ferry was a 9/11 for Estonians, and Baltic peoples. 852 deaths - the biggest "maritime disaster" of the 20th Century.
Posted by OneVote at 10/11/2009 @ 11:41am
Ok,...you want a simple truth to a simple question. Obama will either 'cave' to General McChrystal Or to the Taliban and AQL wing of the democratic party.
Posted by pyeatte at 10/11/2009 @ 1:29pm
We should either pull out of Afghanistan today, or send in an overwhelming force of well over the 60,000 more needed for victory. Obama is a coward, refusing to admit his intention of defeat and failure while refusing to actually commit the troops needed to win the war. He'll just leave our troops to bleed out there without any possibility for victory, and he wants them to keep "losing" the war for a few more years in order to sway public opinion behind him when he finally declares that defeat is inevitable.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 3:12pm
Obama is a coward, refusing to admit his intention of defeat and failure while refusing to actually commit the troops needed to win the war.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 3:12pm
I thought Bush said the war was won? I guess he lied about that too hey?
In any case, the reason Afghanistan is in such a mess is because Bush took left the job undone and was too eager to start an illegal and necessary war in Iraq. I guess that makes Bush a coward with intentions of defeat and failure too huh?
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 5:25pm
From mjkoch
"We were attacked by a group of psychopaths on 911 for no reason whatosever. "
mj....you might want to rethink your statement. Do you really believe these 19 people did this for no reason? Flight trained and ready to lose their lives for no reason? You are the delusional one. Read Peter Bergens book and his interview with OBL.
Get some facts
Posted by notsleepy at 10/11/2009 @ 5:26pm
Cutting a deal with the Taliban would mean turning our backs on freedom for women who were tortured and had acid thrown on their faces because they dared to want an education and make something of their lives rather than be forced into marriage with a man three times their age before they reached their teens.
Posted by mjkoch at 10/08/2009 @ 08:33am
Umm, you might have forgotten the part about Reagan referring to these guys as freedom fighters who represented American values, while they were throwing acid in the faces on women.
You might also want to consider that Bush was prepared to leave them in power if they handed OBL over to us, so freedom for the women was the last thing on his mind.
Bush told us in 2004 that the war there was already won.
"We were attacked by a group of psychopaths on 911 for no reason whatosever."
Correction: We were attacked for reason s you are to ignorant to comprehend. and BTW. seeing as you are a fan of Hitler, he used the same excuse to attack Poland.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 5:51pm
No, Bush never said the war was won, or he would have withdrawn. Afghanistan is a mess because Bush was mind-bogglingly and extraordinarily incompetant in his management of the war. He had no intention of failure, though. That is an absurd charge. He failed on accident due to mistakes, and if he did so on purpose he was competant after all.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 5:57pm
Shingo: opposition to the Taliban equals support for Hitler and the Nazi party?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 6:00pm
The point is that hatred of America is irrational and the hijackers on 9/11 had no legitimate grievences against us.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 6:04pm
No, Bush never said the war was won, or he would have withdrawn.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 5:57pm
Yes he did say the war was won, but since when ahs the US withdrawn from any place without being forces to leave? We defeated Germany and Japan, but we are still there 60 years on.
If accusing Bush of intending to fail is an absurd charge, then what would Obama hope top achieve by failing? is that not equally absurd?
"Shingo: opposition to the Taliban equals support for Hitler and the Nazi party?"
According to Reagan, opposition to the Taliban equals support for communism. Are you a communist?
"The point is that hatred of America is irrational and the hijackers on 9/11 had no legitimate grievences against us."
There's nothing irrational about hating someone who has killed your family or your countrymen. The 911 hijackers have entirely legitimate grievances, though they were by no means justified in carrying out 911.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 6:14pm
What were their legitimate reasons?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 6:17pm
What were their legitimate reasons?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 6:17pm
As Michael Scheuer, the former head of the CIA Bin Laden unit for 8 years, explained:
1. The presence of US military bases in the Middle East. 2. One sided support for Israel in the Israel/Palestine conflict. 3. US support for dictators in the Arab world.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 6:35pm
"1. The presence of US military bases in the Middle East. 2. One sided support for Israel in the Israel/Palestine conflict. 3. US support for dictators in the Arab world."
This is a non-response. Regurgitating Islamist propaganda does not explain why you believe its criticisms of America are morally correct.
What's wrong with American military bases in the Middle East? We are the freest country in the world. No region of the world minds our bases except the Middle East. The countries we have the bases in have requested and support our presense there. Our bases protect Kuwait from conquest and slavery.
As Alex Epstein wrote:
"Consider "Muslim opinion" over the US handling of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, in which the United States is accused of not being "hard enough" on Israel--a free nation with laws that protect all citizens, Jew and Arab alike--for Israel's supposed mistreatment of Palestinians. Yet "Muslim opinion" reveres the Palestinian Authority, a brutal dictatorship that deprives Palestinians of every basic freedom, keeps them in unspeakable poverty, and routinely tortures and executes peaceful dissenters."
Most Palestinians (80%) are on the record as favoring rule by an Islamic theocratic dictatorship based on Sharia law. A majority favor escalating war against Israel if they get their own state. They are evil, wicked, primitive, would-be gennocidares who have pledged as their goal the extermination of all the Jews in Palestine. The Palestinians supported Hitler and the Mufti helped develop the plan to systematically exterminate all the Jews in Europe. Who is America supposed to support? Them or Israel? It's commom sense! ....
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 7:38pm
...Israel is the only free country in the Middle East. It has contributed more to the world in terms of science and technology and medicine than any other nation despite being a tiny barren desert wasteland founded by desperate Holocaust survivors that has been attacked by many huge Arab dictatorships far, far, far larger than it individually and despite the attempts of the Arabs to perpetrate a second Holocaust in 1947 and 1967. Hatred of Israel is irrational and evil. Muslims opinion is deluded, delusional, brainwashed, propagandized, and wildly misinformed. Muslims only hate Israel because they hate Jews. They only hate our bases because they hate Christians. They are irrational, bigoted racist sociopaths. You encourage the jihad with your comments, Shingo.
America supported the Shah, who killed 10,000 people over 30 years. It opposed the Islamists who overthrew him, who killed more than 100,000 people in their first 25. It opposed Saddam Hussein, who killed millions; overthrew the Taliban; gave Iraq democracy; saved Kuwait; liberated Muslims in Bosnia; and condemned genocide against Muslims in Sudan. America supports relatively advanced and free Arab monarchies in Egypt and Jordan. Why do we support these dictatorships? Because, we need diplomatic relations with some Arab countries, so we make friends with the most moral and sophisticated and liberal and kind Arab regimes there are. Its not our fault that every Muslim or Arab country is a backwards, third-world, primitive dictatorship.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 7:53pm
Glenn Woiceshyn wrote beautifully the following, from an essay called Multiculturalism Breeds Terrorism:
"Multiculturalism--a creation of leftist, Western, nihilistic, post-modern philosophy professors--begins by promoting "cultural relativism," which holds that all cultures are of equal value; no culture is better or worse than any other. Logically, this serves to de-value Western values, such as reason, science, productiveness, and each individual's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, by equating them with the most irrational and destructive practices of primitive, mystical cultures such as voodoo medicine, the subjugation of women by men, genital mutilation, and even cannibalism. As essentialized by Peter Schwartz, "Multiculturalism is the debased attempt to obliterate values by claiming that they are indistinguishable from non-values."...
....The final step in constructing multiculturalism involved blending cultural relativism with "egalitarianism," which holds that no one (or no tribe) should benefit from a value, such as wealth, success, pride, etc., unless all do equally. Hence, if one culture appears to be ahead in terms of wealth creation, technology and the enjoyment of life, then this would imply "oppression" because all cultures have equal value and thus deserve equal results. This helps explain why militant Muslims in the East are murdering innocent people while claiming to be victims of Western oppression. "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 8:00pm
Shingo, how's the internet connection in the cave you're apparently posting from?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 8:04pm
I love this battle,a Muslim hater arguing with a Jew hating Jew. Maybe that is too harsh ,a Jew that hates Israel because they are pounding on Palestinians. I wish the two could compromise and solve the Middle East's problems.
Posted by whatozz at 10/11/2009 @ 9:02pm
I don't hate Muslims; I pity them. Islam is what I despise, and it destroys every country it touches.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:31pm
"This is a non-response. Regurgitating Islamist propaganda does not explain why you believe its criticisms of America are morally correct. "
We wouldn't accept Chinese or Russian military bases in the Amercias, so why should they accept ours?
"Most Palestinians (80%) are on the record as favoring rule by an Islamic theocratic dictatorship based on Sharia law. "
So what? The Palestinians are entitled to their own state and their own choices.
Are you a fascist? Israel is the only free country in the Middle East. It is an occupying, apartheid state that is in violation of the Geneva Conventions, international law and 100 UN Resolutions.
"Glenn Woiceshyn wrote beautifully the following, from an essay called Multiculturalism Breeds Terrorism"
We have multiculturalism in the US and Great Britain. Are you arguing that the US and Great Britain breeds terrorism or are you just longing for an all white state?
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:43pm
I don't hate Muslims; I pity them. Islam is what I despise, and it destroys every country it touches.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:31pm
Of course you hate Muslisms. Muslims follow Islam, thus you despise Muslims.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:44pm
Shingo, how's the internet connection in the cave you're apparently posting from?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 8:04pm
At least as good as the one from the trailer park you're posting from.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:45pm
Hence, if one culture appears to be ahead in terms of wealth creation, technology and the enjoyment of life, then this would imply "oppression" because all cultures have equal value and thus deserve equal results. This helps explain why militant Muslims in the East are murdering innocent people while claiming to be victims of Western oppression. "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 8:00pm
1930's Germany was head in terms of wealth creation, technology and the enjoyment of life also, which goes to prove that wealth creation, technology and the enjoyment of life is no guarantee for enlightenment.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:48pm
America supports relatively advanced and free Arab monarchies in Egypt and Jordan.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 7:53pm
Like I said, the US supports tyrants and opposed democratically governments.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:55pm
"We wouldn't accept Chinese or Russian military bases in the Amercias, so why should they accept ours?"
America is morally superior to China and Russia.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:57pm
"Most Palestinians (80%) are on the record as favoring rule by an Islamic theocratic dictatorship based on Sharia law. "
So what? The Palestinians are entitled to their own state and their own choices."
Beyond stupid. A majority of Palestinians favor escalating war against Israel if they get their own state; are you saying that they have some kind of "right" to brutalize and torture and assault and harrass and attack Israelis due to their "right-to-self-determination"? What about Israel's right to self-determination?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:01pm
"We have multiculturalism in the US and Great Britain. Are you arguing that the US and Great Britain breeds terrorism or are you just longing for an all white state?"
Britain in particular breeds terrorism. America does not very much because it encourages cultural integration.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:03pm
"I don't hate Muslims; I pity them. Islam is what I despise, and it destroys every country it touches.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:31pm
Of course you hate Muslisms. Muslims follow Islam, thus you despise Muslims."
Circular reasoning.
I've told you many times I also hate Judaism and Christianity and Buddhism and Hinduism, if not quite as much as I hate Islam. You never responded by blurting out, "you're Christianaphobic and want to bomb Chritian children to steal Christian natural resources in imperial wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:06pm
A majority of Palestinians favor escalating war against Israel if they get their own state; are you saying that they have some kind of "right" to brutalize and torture and assault and harrass and attack Israelis due to their "right-to-self-determination"? What about Israel's right to self-determination?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:01pm
Yes, a majority to favor escalating war against Israel in order to regain the land that was taken from them. Were they to have their state, they would leave Israel alone.
Israel was founded on war, violence, terrorism and ethnic cleansing, which is how they achieved a Jewish majority. Without this violence, Israel would never have come into existence as a Jewish state.
What about Palestine right to self determination? After all, the US and Israel voted against Palestinian self determination last November.
And please, don't bore us with you slogan about how Israel wants peace. Everyone wants peace, but they want it on their own terms. Even Hitler would have opted for peace if he could achieved his goals without violence.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:07pm
America is morally superior to China and Russia.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:57pm
That's what we like to believe yes, which is why we are regarded as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:08pm
Britain in particular breeds terrorism. America does not very much because it encourages cultural integration.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:03pm
Same thing. By the definition of terrorism, both are terrorist states who breed terrorism locally and abroad.
Even the founders of America would have been considered terrorists, especially the partisans.
Terrorism is a meaningless propaganda term.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:10pm
"That's what we like to believe yes, which is why we are regarded as a bigger threat to world peace than Iran."
Regarded by who? Jihadists like yourself?
Actually, America may well be, if going to war with, say, Sudan, is considered worse than "giving peace a chance".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:11pm
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 9:55pm
Not to mentain its insane to praise Egypt for its freedom.
Posted by nkurland at 10/11/2009 @ 10:12pm
You never responded by blurting out, "you're Christianaphobic and want to bomb Chritian children to steal Christian natural resources in imperial wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:06pm
I never responded because it was a juvenile and retarded comment that didn't deserve a response. i could say you're a pedophile who desecrates graves and has sex with cadavers, but would that warrant a response?
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:13pm
"Even Hitler would have opted for peace if he could achieved his goals without violence."
How could he have achieved his goal of conquering the whole world and killing all the Jews, blacks, Poles, Russians, gays, Slavs,ect in it through nonviolent means?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:14pm
Regarded by who? Jihadists like yourself?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:11pm
Do you consider Mandela a jihadist? He was considered a terrorist too.
Mind you, I'm sure you have a soft spot for apartheid. Reagan did too.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:16pm
"You never responded by blurting out, "you're Christianaphobic and want to bomb Chritian children to steal Christian natural resources in imperial wars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:06pm
I never responded because it was a juvenile and retarded comment that didn't deserve a response."
I said "I hate Christianity and Judaism as well"....
That's "juvenile and retarded"?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:16pm
"Do you consider Mandela a jihadist?"
No, but he is madly in love with Saddam Hussein.
"Mind you, I'm sure you have a soft spot for apartheid. Reagan did too."
You're the one who doesn't believe in integration.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:19pm
That's "juvenile and retarded"?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:16pm
Saying I want to bomb anyone is retarded. in case you hadn't noticed, I am opposed to war.
BTW. Here is pprof that Europeans see the US as a threat to peace http://tinyurl.com/2nermr
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:20pm
"By the definition of terrorism, both [America and Britain]are terrorist states who breed terrorism locally and abroad.
Even the founders of America would have been considered terrorists, especially the partisans. "
WTF????????
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:21pm
"Saying I want to bomb anyone is retarded. in case you hadn't noticed, I am opposed to war"
I never said you wanted to bomb anyone. YOU have said that because I hate Islam, I therefore am Islamaphobic and want to bomb Muslim children for fun. I pointed out that you never said I was a Christianaphobe when I said I hated Christianity as well.
Your poor reading skills and breathtaking lack of cognitive ability are showing once again.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:25pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:19pm
"No, but he is madly in love with Saddam Hussein."
Fine. Link to an article that proves he admired Saddam.
"You're the one who doesn't believe in integration."
Really? When did I say that?
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:28pm
Mandela believes the Iraq war is "a holocaust".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:33pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:21pm
This is absolutely true. Our forces hid and sniped at the British as opposed to firing from formation. This was described as a form of terror.
Posted by nkurland at 10/11/2009 @ 10:40pm
"Really? When did I say that?"
You believe in multiculturalism.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:41pm
Mandela believes the Iraq war is "a holocaust".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:33pm
a) That doesn't mean he loved Saddam. b) 1.2 million deaths is a holocaust.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:51pm
You believe in multiculturalism.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:41pm
Yes, because I don't believe in cultural or ethnic superiority.
Opponents of multiculturalism as simply racists and xenophobes.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 10:56pm
Shingo, if you were magically able to assassinate GWBush and everyone in his adminstration without any other casualties in 2002 to prevent the Iraq war, would you have done it and would it have been morally justified?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:57pm
"Yes, because I don't believe in cultural or ethnic superiority."
You think all cultural values are equal? All belief systems are as good as the next?
That is evil and nihilistic and perverse and pathetic and debased and naive and deluded and depraved and strongly unprincipled.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:59pm
Shingo, if you were magically able to assassinate GWBush and everyone in his adminstration without any other casualties in 2002 to prevent the Iraq war, would you have done it and would it have been morally justified?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:57pm
Stupid question.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 11:05pm
"Stupid question."
I'll take that as a "yes, since Bush is worse than Hitler after all".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 11:06pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 10:59pm
"You think all cultural values are equal? All belief systems are as good as the next?"
Too general a question. The Nazis thought they were culturally superior also.
"That is evil and nihilistic and perverse and pathetic and debased and naive and deluded and depraved and strongly unprincipled."
Yes, The Nazis thought that too.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 11:13pm
I'll take that as a "yes, since Bush is worse than Hitler after all".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 11:06pm
Lie I said, stupid question.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 11:15pm
I'll take that as a "yes, since Bush is worse than Hitler after all".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 11:06pm
Lie I said, stupid question.
Posted by Shingo at 10/11/2009 @ 11:15pm
I don't hate Muslims; I pity them. Islam is what I despise, and it destroys every country it touches. Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:31pm Jihadist Islam did not originate naturally inside the Moslem religion. Throughout the 20th century till today the Islamic nation has been a prime target of the globalist oligarchy's kulturkampf spies. Saudi Arabia itself and the wahhabist organizations were originally organized by British intelligence chiefly by the British homosexual intelligence agent & pedophile T.W. Lawrence. And as is common knowledge in the "Middle East", homosexual pedophilia is common among the Saudi & Gulf State royals. Inside the wahhabist madrasas, homosexual pedophilia is one of the practices used to produce suicidal jihadists. In resent times, every, repeat, EVERY jihadist organization that has appeared in the Moslem world has been organized and has had its headquarters in London. That is where Ben Laden was trained. That is where Al Qaeda was originally organized by MI6's Oriental Bureau. This outfit also organized the Islamic Brotherhood which constitute the organizational base of Al Qaeda. It was the Islamic Brotherhood with support from the Oriental Bureau that murdered Sadat after he sought peace with Arafat (the Palestinian leader who was also supported throughout his career by MI6 and the CIA). This peace was organized by Pres. Carter who continues to be vilified by the British-dominated neocon movement as part of the globalist oligarchy's kulturkampf war against the United States.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/12/2009 @ 12:33am
And it is the intellectual leader of the Oriental Bureau, Bernard Lewis, a homosexual neocon, who most promoted a new "crusade" against Islam and the very jihadists he helped create, and who is often quoted by the neocons, today, whenever they write about Islam. Don't blame Islam as a whole for the jihadists, blame what birthed them. Unfortunately, jihadism and its wahhabist promoters are so entrenched in Islamic societies, Islamic terrorism will not be stopped until Moslems of a moderate nature rise up, organize and fight the jihadist tendencies. And simultaneously, if this terror is to be stopped, we in the West will have to rise up, admit there is a globalist oligarchy, that this oligarchy engages in kulturkamph via its intelligence agencies, multinational corporations, investment banks, and wealthy foundations and political assets on both the left and the right, and that this oligarchy is Malthusian in outlook and its goals, i.e., it wants to reduce the numbers of the human population and enslave what it left. Please go back and read Al Gore's speeches where he often praises Malthus. More importantly read the works of the great anti-Malthusian writer Jonathan Swift, especially his A Modest Proposal. Also read his Gulliver's Travels and learn to understand who the Lilliputians were and are. In Swift's days it was the English people who were growing small minded and just beginning to accept oligarchy. Today it is those, such as many of the hermetically sealed, bourgeois minded bloggers here on The Nation, rightwingnutcase, Mask, et al, who don't want to admit the oligarchy exists, that it is organized, that it is active on both the left and the right, and that it interferes with American (and other nations) political, religious and cultural life ALL THE TIME.
Posted by shadowknows at 10/12/2009 @ 12:37am
Why don't the Jordanians absorb the Pals. How about Egypt. It is the solidifier of Arab anger versus Israel. They have their own whipping boy which they in turn put down. What a bad situation.
Posted by whatozz at 10/12/2009 @ 05:26am
"Islam is what I despise, and it destroys every country it touches. "-----Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/11/2009 @ 9:31pm
Isn't this the SAME poster who claims to love the Iraqi people and believes in "democracy-creation in the Middle East" per the Bush Doctrine?!??!?!
Who does he think live in Iraq and Afghanistan.....Lutherans?!?!??!?
Posted by Mask at 10/12/2009 @ 10:05am
Halliburton subsidiaries The following is a list of subsidiaries, affiliates, branches, brands and divisions of Halliburton Co.
Adute Pty Ltd. (Australia) AOC Services Limited - (Jersey, tax haven) Antilles Dresser-Rand (tax haven) Avalon Financial Services, Ltd. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Axelson Baroid Caribbean Limited Brown & Root (Overseas) Limited - (Jersey, tax haven) Baroid CIMBAR Baroid Drilling Inc Baroid Drilling Fluids Baroid Drilling Fluids/Plant Baroid Filtration Baroid Halliburton Offshore Services Inc. Baroid IDP Baroid of Nigeria Limited Baroid Pigmina Industrial E Comercial Ltda Baroid Plant Baroid Solids Control Baroid Tesoro Coastwide Svcs Baroid Warehouse Beheersmaatschappij Van Aandelen In Textielverwerkende O (Netherlands) Bentonite Performance Minerals Bitc (Us) Llc Bitc Holdings (Us) Llc Bredero Price Holding Bv (Netherlands) Breswater Marine Contracting Bv (Netherlands) Brown & Root Building Co Cayman Holdings, Inc. Condor Spa (Algeria) Construction Pty Ltd. (Australia) Environmental FWENC Government Services Industrial Services Log Jamss Skoda s.r.o. Caspian Transco Inc. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Cebar Sdn Bhd (Brunei Darussalam) C.I. Limited (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Cimbar Performance Mnrl Division CNOOC-Otis Well Comp Services Ltd Consorcio Contrina Snc (France) Corporacion Mexicana De Mantenimiento Integral Sde Rl De Cv (Mexico) Db Stratabit Gmbh (Germany) Deveron Facility Devonport Management Limited DII Industries Dorhold Ltd. (United Kingdom) Downhole Motor Services Dresser Inc Dresser Flow Control BPETM (Becker Precision Equipment) Consolidated Grove Masoneilan Nil-Cor Texsteam TK Valve Wheatley Ledeen Dr
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 10:19am
Dresser Measurement Ashcroft Dresser couplings Ebro Flo Systems Heise H-Multistage IGC/OIB Mooney RAM/RCS RAS/RASJ ROOTS U-RAI Weksler Willy XACTA Dresser-Rand Clark Dresser-Rand A.S. (Norway) Dresser-Rand Brazil Dresser-Rand BV (The Netherlands) Dresser-Rand Canada Inc. Dresser-Rand Compr. (Suzhou) Ltd. (China) Dresser-Rand GmBH (Germany) Dresser-Rand S.A. (England) Dresser-Rand S.A. (France) Dresser-Rand Italia Srl Dresser-Rand & Enserv Svcs. Sdn Bhd (Malaysia) Dresser-Rand Nigeria Ltd. Dresser-Rand S.A. (Venezuela) Dresser-Rand U.K. (Scotland) Moore Paragon Engineering Services Pele-Sol Engineered Solutions PT Dresser-Rand Services Indonesia Terry Turbodyne UZ Dresser-Rand (Uzbekistan) Worthington Ingersoll-Rand Dresser Wayne Ingersoll Dresser Pump Co Waukesha Engine Energy Services Group Falcon AFB Contract Mgmt Logistics Inc Fann Instrument G&H Management Llc (United States) Georgetown Finance Ltd. (Caymans Islands) Goddard SFC JOC Granherne Limited Granherne Pty Limited Grove Foreign Sales Corp. (Barbados, tax haven) Grove-Tk Ltd. (United Kingdom) Guiberson AVA Guiberson Oil Tools GVA Consultants AB Halliburton Acquisition Company Halliburton Afrique S.N.C. Halliburton Argentina S. A. Halliburton Australia Halliburton Aviation Division Halliburton Baroid Halliburton Baroid Singapore Halliburton Benefits Center Halliburton Brunei Halliburton BV Halliburton Camp Facility Halliburton Canada Inc. Halliburton Canada/Guiberson Halliburton Company Austria G.m.b.H. Halliburton Company Germany GmbH Halliburton Company, Saudi Arabia Branch Halliburton Company/Tax Department Halliburton del Peru SA Halliburton de Venezuela SA H
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 10:20am
Halliburton Limited Halliburton Landmark Halliburton Logging Services Halliburton Logging Svcs Do Brazil-Servicos Halliburton Machine Shops Halliburton Manufacturing & Services Limited Halliburton Measurement Systems Halliburton Mfg de Venezuela Halliburton National Institutes of Health Halliburton Nigeria Limited Halliburton Oilfield Services India Limited Halliburton Oil Services Vietnam Ltd Halliburton Overseas Limited Halliburton Papua New Guinea Halliburton Reservoir Services Halliburton SAS - Paris Halliburton SAS - Pau Halliburton SAS/PES - Pau Halliburton Security DBS Halliburton Shell Project Halliburton Sperry-Sun Tunis Halliburton Subsea Halliburton Travel Division Halliburton Trinidad Limited Halliburton Jet Research Center Halliburton West Africa Ltd. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Halliburton Westport Tech Ctr Hall/William Mercer Ltd-Pension Halson Financial Svcs. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Hanson Division Harbison - Walker Rfctories Division Hbr Energy, Inc. Hbr Nl Holdings, Llc Hed (Indonesia), Inc. Hellenic Shipyards Hes Corp. Hes Holding, Inc. Hes Mexico Holdings, Llc Hes Oilfield Operations (Nigeria), Inc. Hewitt Associates HGS enterprises Inc. (Panama, tax haven) HLS Asia Limited Hobbymarkt Capelle Bv (Netherlands) Hobbymarkt Capelle De Mexico, Sa De Cv (Mexico) Howard Humphreys (T) Ltd Industrial Instrument Division International Admin. Svcs. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) International Oil Field Engr. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Ipem Developments Ltd. (United Kingdom) Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR) Americas (BRES) Amoco Atco Balden Bonney Island Braun Caldwell Cardinal Caledonia Ltd. Celanese Chatman Ciba Collins Contrina Contri
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 10:21am
Laut OAC Sdn Bhd Magic Earth, Inc. Mashhor Well Services Sdn Bhd (Brunei Darussalam) Masoneilan International, Llc Measurement & Controls Metro Fast Track II M I Drilling Fluids MW Kellogg Limited MWKL Field Services (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Monoflo Inc. Mono Pumps (Australia) Ltd. (Australia) Mono Pumps Ltd. (United Kingdom) New Iberia Threading Machining NUMAR Corporation -Sales NUS Laboratory Oilfield Innovations, Cv (Netherlands) Oilfield Services Receivable Corp. Omega Pump Otis Marine Maintenance Division Overseas Administration Servcs (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Paragon Engineering Svcs Inc Petrodata As (Norway) Petroleum Engineering Services Norge As (Norway) Petroleum and Industrial Maintenance Co. Ltd (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Professional Resources Ltd. (Bermuda, tax haven) Promzona 40, UPTOK Usinskstroi Property and Casualty Insurance P.T. Baroid Indonesia P.T. Halliburton Indonesia P.T. Indokor Sperry-Sun Pump Division Rockwater Holdings Ltd. (United Kingdom) Rockwater Ltd. (United Kingdom) Rotary Brown & Root Saudi Halliburton Logging Llc (Saudi Arabia) Seaforth Maritime Ltd. (United Kingdom) Security DBS Security DBS (MEM) E.C. (Bahrain, tax haven) Security Rock Bits & Drlg Tls Service Employees Int'l Inc. (Cayman Islands, tax haven) Servicios Halliburton de Venezuela SA Shaw International Ltd. (Barbados, tax haven) Sperry-Sun Sperry Sun Saudi Company Ltd. (Saudi Arabia) Studebaker Worthington (U.K.) Ltd. (United Kingdom) Subsahara Serivces Inc. Sub Sea Offshore (Holdings) Ltd. (United Kingdom) Subsea 7 - www.subsea7.com Swaco Geolograph Waterloo Plant & Sales Office Waukesha Engine Division Wayne Division Wellstream Inc. Wellstream Ltd. (United
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 10:21am
Wellstream Ltd. (United Kingdom) Western Geophysical Services Westport Technology Center Intl Wheatley Valve Division Vann Systems Zone Industrial Halliburton EDF
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 10:22am
'Even as U.S. troops surge to new highs in Afghanistan they are outnumbered by military contractors working alongside them, according to a Defense Department census due to be distributed to Congress -- illustrating how hard it is for the U.S. to wean itself from the large numbers of war-zone contractors that proved controversial in Iraq.
The number of military contractors in Afghanistan rose to almost 74,000 by June 30, far outnumbering the roughly 58,000 U.S. soldiers on the ground at that point. As the military force in Afghanistan grows further, to a planned 68,000 by the end of the year, the Defense Department expects the ranks of contractors to increase more.'
Afghanistan Contractors Outnumber Troops Despite Surge in U.S. Deployments, More Civilians Are Posted in War Zone; Reliance Echoes the Controversy in Iraq
August Cole - WSJ August 22, 2009 - Wall Street Journal - Excerpts
Posted by OneVote at 10/12/2009 @ 11:06am
"Isn't this the SAME poster who claims to love the Iraqi people and believes in "democracy-creation in the Middle East" per the Bush Doctrine?!??!?!
Who does he think live in Iraq and Afghanistan.....Lutherans?!?!??!?"
Iraq and Afghanistan are perfect examples of my point that Islam destroys every country it touches. If France was taken over by an evil genocidal dictator like Saddam Hussein who killed upwards of 800,000 people and waged aggressive wars that slaughtered well over a million while bringing about total economic collapse, malnutrition, starvation, disease, and lack of clean water through his manipulation of sanctions put on his regime by the international community, and President Bush invaded France to oust him, when he declared "mission accomplished," the mission would really have been accomplished.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/12/2009 @ 1:13pm
"Jihadist Islam did not originate naturally inside the Moslem religion."
As I've said before, Mohammed was a terrorist and a jihadist and a mass murderer and a Jew killer and a rapist and a sadist and a woman-beater and a slave owner AND a child molester.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/12/2009 @ 1:18pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/12/2009 @ 1:13pm
Okay, RWN...in that case, isn't democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan IMPOSSIBLE...
unless they all convert to another religion?!?!?!?!?
Posted by Mask at 10/12/2009 @ 1:52pm
No, as long as they have a secular constitution. I'm optimistic about Iraq. Afghanistan is hopeless and is no democracy by any stretch of the imagination.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 10/12/2009 @ 5:16pm