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RedditThe hawks, neoconservatives, and Israeli hardliners are squealing, but the US and Iran are set to talk. The talks will begin October 1, among Iran and the P5 + 1, the permanent members of the UN Security Council and Germany.
Mohammed ElBaradei, the outgoing head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), was ebullient, even as he urged Iran to "engage substantively with the agency," saying:
"Addressing the concerns of the international community about Iran's future intentions is primarily a matter of confidence-building, which can only be achieved through dialogue. I therefore welcome the offer of the US to initiate a dialogue with Iran, without preconditions and on the basis of mutual respect."
That's exactly the right tone and message, and it underscores that President Obama is doing precisely what he campaigned on, namely, to open a dialogue with Iran. It's an effort that began with his comments on Iran during his inaugural address, his videotaped Nowruz message to Iran last winter, a pair of quiet messages to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's Leader, and Obama's careful and balanced response to the post-election crisis over the summer. Once started, the talks aren't likely to have a swift conclusion, but the very fact that they're taking place will make it impossible for hawks to argue successfully either for harsh, "crippling" sanctions on Iran or for a military attack.
That didn't stop Bibi Netanyahu, for one, from trying. Speaking to Israel's foreign affairs and defense committee today, the Israeli leader said:
"I believe that now is the time to start harsh sanctions against Iran -- if not now then when? These harsh sanctions can be effective. I believe that the international community can act effectively. The Iranian regime is weak, the Iranian people would not rally around the regime if they felt for the first time that there was a danger to their regime -- and this would be a new situation."
Netanyahu's belief in sanctions, harsh measures, and regime change was echoed by John Hannah, the former top aide to Vice President Cheney, who wrote an op-ed criticizing Obama for taking regime change off the table in dealing with Iran. Hannah utterly ignored the fact that eight years of anti-Iran, pro-regime change bombast from the Bush-Cheney administration did nothing but strengthen Iran's hawks, while Obama's softer, dialogue-centered approach to Iran helped boost the power of the reformists and their allies in Iranian politics. Indeed, it was precisely Obama's less belligerent tone that confused the Iranian hardliners, emboldened the liberals, reformists and pragmatists in Iran, and therefore did more to create the conditions for "regime change" than anything that Bush, Cheney, and Hannah did.
Nevertheless, here's Hannah:
"It is ironic, of course, that just as the Obama administration seemed prepared to write off regime change forever, the Iranian people have made it a distinct possibility. It would be tragic indeed if the United States took steps to bolster the staying power of Iran's dictatorship at precisely the moment when so many Iranians appear prepared to risk everything to be rid of it. It would also seem strategically shortsighted to risk throwing this regime a lifeline."
Hannah adds that whatever happens in the talks, Obama had better be careful not to undermine the possibility that the regime might collapse. "However engagement now unfolds, Obama should do nothing to undermine this historic opportunity."
Other, less temperate hawks have forthrightly condemned Iran's offer to negotiate. The Weekly Standard ridiculed Iran's five-page statement on opening negotiations:
"The Iranian response is a bad joke. It makes a complete mockery of the situation."
And the churlish Washington Post, in an editorial written before the US agreed to start talks with Iran, huffed that Iran's offer to talk was a "non-response" and complained that so far Obama has had no results:
"President Obama's offer of direct diplomacy evidently has produced no change in the stance taken by Iran during the George W. Bush administration, when Tehran proposed discussing everything from stability in the Balkans to the development of Latin America with the United States and its allies -- but refused to consider even a temporary shutdown of its centrifuges."
And the Post again brought up the importance of getting "tough" with Iran and pushing for sanctions, a la Netanyahu, even though neither Russia nor China will have anything to do with more sanctions. (The Europeans don't really want more sanctions either, though they say they do. And Venezuela has offered to export whatever gasoline Iran needs if, in fact, the United States tries to impose a cut-off of refined petroleum products imported by Iran.)
We can only hope, now, that the United States and the rest of the P5 + 1 will table an offer to Iran to allow Tehran to maintain its uranium enrichment program, on its own soil, combined with a system of stronger international inspections. That's the end game: not regime change, not Big Bad Wolf threats of military action, not Hillary Clinton-style "crippling sanctions," not an Iran without uranium enrichment -- but an Iran that is ushered into the age of peaceful use of nuclear energy, including enrichment, in exchange for a comprehensive settlement.
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Robert Dreyfuss
A chronicle of America's adventures in foreign policy and national security.
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we're trying to help people to use MORE nuclear energy?!?
why doesn't the u.s. just give them the super-efficient solar panels they have developed?
oh, yeah.....
nevermind.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2009 @ 12:24pm
Well, Netanyahu wlll naturally be ignored on this...just as he'll ignore calls to stop building settlements.
And we'll get into another round of neo-cons "hinting" that we should attack Iran.
And another round of Israel-bashing. With another round of "Israel Right or Wrong!" And everybody calling each other bigots.
But basic facts won't change... Bush and Rice tried diplomacy...so is Obama.
Posted by Mask at 09/14/2009 @ 12:43pm
bush and rice twiddled their thumbs.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2009 @ 12:52pm
DREYFUSS: "It's an effort that began with his comments on Iran during his inaugural address, his videotaped Nowruz message to Iran last winter, a pair of quiet messages to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Iran's Leader, and Obama's careful and balanced response to the post-election crisis over the summer."
Sounds like Iran has got BHO right where it wants him......having successfully played hard-to-get....and managed our expectations DOWN....damn smart Persians!
Posted by Happy at 09/14/2009 @ 1:03pm
As usual, the real dialogue will take place behind the scenes, so we'll probably never know what is said, to either Iran and / or the zionists, but at least Obama hasn't completely buckled under pressure from the Tel Aviv crime syndicate. Yet.
Posted by DejaVu at 09/14/2009 @ 1:29pm
It is mind-boggling that groups such as the Obama administration and various editorialists on The Nation can allow themselves to be duped by the Iranians.
Obama and/or editorialists on The Nation REALLY believe some kind of agreement with Iran is possible that will stop them from making their nuclear weapon.
They REALLY believe this!
How foolish can people be? How ignorant can people be? How far in the sand or up their rear ends have they stuck their heads?
Posted by sjchermak at 09/14/2009 @ 1:56pm
how can we trust what The Nation writes (or any American media)?
....
right chaoszen?
heheh
Posted by urmygyro at 09/14/2009 @ 2:22pm
"Obama and/or editorialists on The Nation REALLY believe some kind of agreement with Iran is possible that will stop them from making their nuclear weapon."----Posted by sjchermak at 09/14/2009 @ 1:56pm
Okay, SJCHER....what WILL "stop Iran"?
And please...don't be specific. Just hint.
Posted by Mask at 09/14/2009 @ 2:46pm
Okay, SJCHER....what WILL "stop Iran"?
And please...don't be specific. Just hint.
Posted by Mask at 09/14/2009 @ 2:46pm
sara palin in a helicopter!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2009 @ 2:55pm
Mask,
You don't want me to be specific on what will stop Iran. You just want me to hint.
Ok, so I will hint.
And the answer/hint would be.....I do not know what specifically would stop Iran, but I would be willing to bet Bibi Netanyahu knows!
Posted by sjchermak at 09/14/2009 @ 3:07pm
"Obama and/or editorialists on The Nation REALLY believe some kind of agreement with Iran is possible that will stop them from making their nuclear weapon."-
Posted by sjchermak at 09/14/2009 @ 1:56pm
Okay, SJCHER....what WILL "stop Iran"? And please...don't be specific. Just hint.
Posted by Mask at 09/14/2009 @ 2:46pm | ignore this person |
--north korea just needs a good talkin' to! and bin laden just needed a better mommy...
Posted by urmygyro at 09/14/2009 @ 3:08pm
"Do as I say, don't do as I do." - The American Message to the rest of the world.
Posted by Extraneous at 09/14/2009 @ 3:21pm
"Do as I say, don't do as I do." - The American Message to the rest of the world.
Posted by Extraneous at 09/14/2009 @ 3:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--from the Indians to the slaves to the lack of civil rights for 1/2 the citizenry...
Posted by urmygyro at 09/14/2009 @ 3:31pm
Since it seems unlikely that there will be many more troops being sent to Afghanistan, we will need Iran's help in bringing that war to a reasonable conclusion. After our confrontation with the Soviet Union, I am not easily impressed by a smaller country with nuclear weapons. Since we have nuclear weapons coming out of our ears, it would be suicidal for any country to use these weapons against us. However, the preemptive use of nuclear weapons by any country in the region could cause suicidal collateral damage to the attacking country. There are good reasons not to have such weapons, and nonproliferation talks might be possible. Any attack on an active nuclear power plants could have worldwide collateral damage. The attack on Iraq's nuclear power plant by Israel occurred before it had nuclear material.
Posted by pjcasey at 09/14/2009 @ 3:35pm
Since it seems unlikely that there will be many more troops being sent to Afghanistan, we will need Iran's help in bringing that war to a reasonable conclusion. After our confrontation with the Soviet Union, I am not easily impressed by a smaller country with nuclear weapons. Since we have nuclear weapons coming out of our ears, it would be suicidal for any country to use these weapons against us. However, the preemptive use of nuclear weapons by any country in the region could cause suicidal collateral damage to the attacking country. There are good reasons not to have such weapons, and nonproliferation talks might be possible. Any attack on an active nuclear power plants could have worldwide collateral damage. The attack on Iraq's nuclear power plant by Israel occurred before it had nuclear material.
Posted by pjcasey at 09/14/2009 @ 3:36pm
posted by ROBERT DREYFUSS on 09/14/2009 @ 11:38am
It seems on one hand we have the Iranians as signatories to the NPE have an internationally regarded legal right to nuclear power on their own soil, on their own terms. On the other hand, the loudest voice calling for sanctions and military attacks on Iran is a nation famously in violation of international law in different ways, that is not a signatory to the NPE, and maintains as an open secret an advanced arsenal of nuclear weapons. The basic problem is that we are apparently joined at the hip with the second party.
That hip joint is the crux of the problem: do you think Obama will be able to do anything real in terms of building stability with Iran, given that the congress won't go along with much of it due to the famous lobbying by Israel and its American supporters?
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 4:34pm
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 4:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person
well, he's willing to talk instead of bomb, bomb, Iran.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/14/2009 @ 4:46pm
I love that picture of the Iranian woman accompanying this article. Are those Iranian babes hot or what!? Covering them up is a crime against humanity!
Posted by Marco22 at 09/14/2009 @ 4:53pm
If it weren't for the anti-Israel aspect to the regime, how many progressives do you think would be out there professing their support for a theologically based, women/gay opressing regime that recently suppressed a democratic outpouring coming from students and intellectuals?
Come on people, call it based on facts, not based on anti-semetic beliefs. Iran's leaders have openly called for the destruction via atomic weapons ("Israel is a one-bomb state") and are, by everyone's definition, one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism, who's side should we take in this dispute.
Posted by ProudLibertarian at 09/14/2009 @ 4:55pm
That hip joint is the crux of the problem: do you think Obama will be able to do anything real in terms of building stability with Iran, given that the congress won't go along with much of it due to the famous lobbying by Israel and its American supporters?
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 4:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I know Israel is a convenient scapegoat for everything, but how do you explain the European opposition to the Iranian nuclear program and its threat of sanctions. Or do you think that AIPAC controls those countries also. LOL Just because the american government doesn't follow the policies you favor, why blame it on the Jews. there used to be a name for that, but I can't remember what it is...
Posted by gren at 09/14/2009 @ 5:03pm
What Bibi means to say:
I believe that now is the time to start harsh sanctions against Israel -- if not now then when? These harsh sanctions can be effective. I believe that the international community can act effectively, as they have already but for US veto. The Israeli right wing regime is weak and propped up by US Zionist support. The Israeli people would will rally around regime change and a lasting two state solution. This would be a new situation, an unprecedented situation.
Posted by OneVote at 09/14/2009 @ 5:08pm
how do you explain the European opposition to the Iranian nuclear program and its threat of sanctions.
Posted by gren at 09/14/2009 @ 5:03pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Gren - Bibi negotiating in Europe early September. His offer - stop building in occupied territories and work on 2 state solution in exchange for tougher stance on Iran by Europeans.
Makes alot of sense. A quid pro quo.
Iran's nuclear program in exchange of Jewish settlements of Israel 29.08.2009
http://en.trend.az/news/viewpoint/1530709.html
Posted by OneVote at 09/14/2009 @ 5:18pm
"If it weren't for the anti-Israel aspect to the regime, how many progressives do you think would be out there professing their support for a theologically based, women/gay opressing regime that recently suppressed a democratic outpouring coming from students and intellectuals?
Come on people, call it based on facts, not based on anti-semetic beliefs. Iran's leaders have openly called for the destruction via atomic weapons ("Israel is a one-bomb state") and are, by everyone's definition, one of the leading state sponsors of terrorism, who's side should we take in this dispute."
I agree, but would add that all hatred of a tiny country founded by Jews (many of whom survived the Holocaust) on 1/5 of 1% of the Middle East in an arid desert wasteland that fought off three conventional wars by numerous Arab dictatorships that each individually were many times the size of Israel and which survived and prospered and turned a desert wasteland into an advanced society that contributes more to the world in science and technology and medicine thany any other nation and that gives Arabs more rights than any Arab country and that saved tens of thousands of Ethiopians and is a completely secular and tolerant democracy DESPITE its constant assualt by jihadists and war at the hands of huge dictatorial regimes and DESPITE its tiny size and complete lack of natural resourses is inherently anti-semitic.
I will repeat, if you hate Israel, you hate Jews. There is no rational reason to hate Israel, only the irrational hatred of Jews that leads one to despise a Jewish nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:23pm
BTW, there is also no rational reason to hate democracy, or America, or capitalism, or Jews, or Israel, or "the West," or Western values, or freedom. Liberals simply irrationally hate everything that their is no rational reason to dislike due to a collective mental delusion.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:27pm
"I know Israel is a convenient scapegoat for everything, but how do you explain the European opposition to the Iranian nuclear program and its threat of sanctions. Or do you think that AIPAC controls those countries also."
AIPAC controls every country EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's a MASSIVE globalized WORLDWIDE CONSPIRACY lead by the evil JEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The JEWS run EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:34pm
Under the Obamanation that makes desolation we now see Iran and N. Korea as the axis of "Oh, please don't do that" according to his "Oh we're sorry we hurt your feelings" diplomacy style! It is really going to be funny to see these playground bullies give him a nuclear wedgie!!!
Nothing like having a naive fool in charge of military preparedness and national security!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/14/2009 @ 7:30pm
Haha, ya'll think the talks are about democracy, or nuclear weapons. There are more pressing situations in the middle east; such as the mountain of natural gas and oil Iran is sitting on, and all those energy deals it's making with Russia, China, and India and not the US/Europe. Talks with between the members of the security council and Iran have the potential to stabilize the middle east (and at least start Iraq on the path), and draw down tensions between the US/Europe and Russia/China. Iran is the linchpin for Eurasia, and so far the US has been trying to win over that linchpin by force, in an effective cold war with Russia/China. Now were talking, and the worlds greatest powers are meeting to discuss the worlds energy policy.
Posted by shink at 09/14/2009 @ 7:35pm
Islam is an evil religion (though all religion is superstitious and absurd)! More than anything else in the world today, it encourages hatred and abuse and torure and rape and enslavement of women. Look at what that hatred has wrought:
http://www.slate.com/id/2227598?nav=wp
"They start with an extraordinary fact that shows how deep this abuse runs. Today, now, more than 100 million women are missing. They have vanished. In normal circumstances, women live longer than men--but China has 107 males for every 100 females in its overall population, India has 108, and Pakistan has 111. Where have these women gone? They have been killed or allowed to die. Medical treatment is often reserved for boys, while violence against women is routine. More girls are killed in this "gendercide" each decade than in all the genocides of the 20th century. This year, another 2 million girls will "disappear."
Or how about the enslavement of women in brothels, which is now far larger than the trans-Atlantic slave trade at its height? Some 3.5 million women are being jailed, drugged, and raped for cash today. This brutalization of women doesn't have to happen any more than the enslavement of Africans did in the 18th century. "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 8:03pm
I will repeat, if you hate Israel, you hate Jews. There is no rational reason to hate Israel, only the irrational hatred of Jews that leads one to despise a Jewish nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:23pm
this is absolute nonsense.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2009 @ 9:00pm
Frosty Zoom has it just about right - Absolute nonsense...Since Netanyaya is in fact powerless to move except to start another war and his lunatic Foreign Minister Lierbermann is about to be put in jail, this seems like an issue they should just shut up about since if they spout off too much - NO MO MONEY !!
If no US money, no Israel...wwwhhhaaaa...... These folks seem only interested in killing folks and more apartheid...time to shut that down...
Posted by Winski at 09/14/2009 @ 9:12pm
Actually, the leaders of Israel are not lunatics. They are quite intelligent. Netanyahu has an IQ of 160.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:15pm
It is mind-boggling that groups such as the Obama administration and various editorialists on The Nation can allow themselves to be duped by the Iranians.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/14/2009 @ 1:56pm
The very squealing the Dreyfyus was referring to.
Tell us sjchermak, seeing as you're so sure we're all being duped, where is your evidence that Iran are making nukes?
Posted by Shingo at 09/14/2009 @ 9:35pm
I know Israel is a convenient scapegoat for everything, but how do you explain the European opposition to the Iranian nuclear program and its threat of sanctions. Or do you think that AIPAC controls those countries also. LOL Just because the american government doesn't follow the policies you favor, why blame it on the Jews. there used to be a name for that, but I can't remember what it is...
Posted by gren at 09/14/2009 @ 5:03pm
Are you suggesting there is no AIPAC equivalent in Europe?
Posted by Shingo at 09/14/2009 @ 9:37pm
I will repeat, if you hate Israel, you hate Jews. There is no rational reason to hate Israel, only the irrational hatred of Jews that leads one to despise a Jewish nation.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:23pm
this is absolute nonsense.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/14/2009 @ 9:00pm
No, it is the truth. It's just that most of you anti-semites refuse to be honest about it.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/14/2009 @ 9:40pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:23pm |
"Iran's leaders have openly called for the destruction via atomic weapons"
Amazing that you demand that others make statements based on facts, not on anti-semetic beliefs, then come out with a statement that has no factual basis but is based on Islamophobia.
Iran has never called for Israel's destruction and has never made any reference to nukes.
The size of Israel's land mass is irrelevant. Israle has the 4thmost poweful mitary in the world and over 200 nukes.
Then rightwingnutcase suggests that becasue Israel has contributed to the world, that it is more legitimate than the Arab states. Of course, all those inventions and scientific achievements were made by Jews not living in Israel.
Anyway, Israel is not the the Jews. Israel is a racist, apartheid state that was founded on terrorism and ethnic cleansing.
The reason rightwingnutcase loves Israel so much is becasue it has bashed Arabs and Muslism, which appeals to xenophobes and neo Nazis.
Which one are you rightwingnutcase?
http://tinyurl.com/l8o576
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 6:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Posted by Shingo at 09/14/2009 @ 9:45pm
"where is your evidence that Iran are making nukes?"
As I've said already:
First, Iran has WMD. This is a reason not to attack it (I don't favor attacking Iran. But your comment is ridiculous wishful thinking).
Second, Iran has been caught lying to the IAEA multiple times again and again.
Third, Iran has been offered all of the nuclear fuel it could possibly need for civilian energy from Europe free of charge, but has boldly refused to accept any of it. Hence, they are lying when they say their nuclear program is for civilian energy only.
Fourth, propaganda posters in several Middle Eastern countries put out by Hezbollah openly advertise and state explicitly that Iran is going to acquire a nuclear bomb sometime soon.
Fifth, in an interview, an Iranian official told an interviewer, "We emphasise the peaceful nature of our nuclear weapons programs". He then flinched and said: "...I mean of our civilian energy programs".
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:47pm
what elections?
Posted by bleedingheart at 09/14/2009 @ 9:50pm
"The size of Israel's land mass is irrelevant."
Its damned impressive that liberals can find some way to hate a tiny country of Holocaust survivors built on a desolate desert wasteland on 1/5 of 1% of the Middle East that had no Muslims until the Arab conquests of the 7th century that has contributed more to the world in science, technology, and civilization than any other nation despite being attacked by numerous dictatorships each individually many times the size of it in three wars and through unrelenting jihad and despite its lack of natural resources.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:54pm
"has bashed Arabs and Muslism, which appeals to xenophobes and neo Nazis."
On the other hand, the Palestinians were pro-Hitler during the Holocaust.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:56pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:56pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You have to be one of silliest people to have found this web site in months.
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 10:09pm
On the other hand, the Palestinians were pro-Hitler during the Holocaust.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:56pm
So was most of the Republican party (and many Dems) prior to Hitler's declaration of war a few days following Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. (Just check the demographics on Hitler's support in Germany and you'll find a fascinating correlation between the right in Germany up to and after the Nazi seizure of power, and the rightwingers that support the Repubs in modern day America.)
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/14/2009 @ 10:11pm
Almost everyone who posts on this website is silly, and many Nation writers, like Cockburn, Dreyfuss, Younge, Klein, and Chomsky are criminally insane.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:18pm
Almost everyone who posts on this website is silly, and many Nation writers, like Cockburn, Dreyfuss, Younge, Klein, and Chomsky are criminally insane.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:18pm
Sounds like somebody wants to burn some books, build a concentration camp...
Posted by mtspence05 at 09/14/2009 @ 10:20pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:47pm
Iran's WMD are relics from WWII.
Iran has NOT been caught lying to the IAEA ever.
Third, as a signatory to the NPT, Iran has the inaliable right to enrich uranium for fuel. The Europeans and the US have denied Iran it's legitimate access to equipment, so there is no reason for Iran to trust other countries to supply fuel, when that empowers them to cut off supplies any time they wanted
Hence, they would be foos to give up their rigths under the NPT and risk suplpies being witheld.
Propaganda posters in several Middle Eastern countries put out by Hezbollah are about a relevant as the claims by the birthers here in the US
If a splip of the tongue during an an interview is evidence, then Rumsfeld's slip of the tongue woudl prove that 911 was an inside job.
Posted by Shingo at 09/14/2009 @ 10:33pm
Its damned impressive that liberals can find some way to hate a tiny country of Holocaust survivors built on a desolate desert wasteland on 1/5 of 1% of the Middle East
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:54pm
It might be impressive if it were true, but Palestine was NOT desolate desert wasteland in 1948 and was a land filled with a thriving population that had a very productive agricultural industry.
Posted by Shingo at 09/14/2009 @ 10:36pm
"Sounds like somebody wants to burn some books, build a concentration camp..."
Why would you say that? Cockburn has in recent essays called Gaza a genocide and compared it to Darfur, argued that the US is far more of a rouge nation than North Korea, and said that Obama's "handling" of the "coup" in Honduras "suggests a sinister strategy of counterattack on the leftist trends of the past few years". Maybe criminally insane is too harsh, but he clearly suffers from mental delusion (though he's always entertaining, at least).
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:41pm
LOL!
Disliking and even hating the state of Israel makes you an anti-Semite?
Is that like hating wasteful foreign wars makes you a terrorist lover?
Such old and tired bullshit my friend. You need to try a little harder.
Posted by TexasFlood at 09/14/2009 @ 10:43pm
"It might be impressive if it were true, but Palestine was NOT desolate desert wasteland in 1948 and was a land filled with a thriving population that had a very productive agricultural industry."
The land of Israel itself was mostly (around 80%) a desolate wasteland.
During the 20-year period of 1967-1987 under Israeli rule, some 250,000 Israelis settled in the Territories. These were the supposedly predatory settlers. They supplied the infrastructure of power, water, education, and medical care that attracted nearly ten Arab settlers for every one Israeli. During this period, the economy in the territories grew some 25 percent per year, nearly the fastest in the world, and far faster than that of Israel itself, which was still bogged down in socialism. Arab life expectancy rose from 40 to around 70. Their incomes tripled while their population soared. Seven universities and 2,500 factories were established. It was the golden age for Palestinian Arabs.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:50pm
"Third, as a signatory to the NPT, Iran has the inaliable right to enrich uranium for fuel."
That it has been offered but refused to accept.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:52pm
I am a LIBERAL. I also support Israel. Something very crazy happened over the years that my friends tied Israel to rebublican crazies. Very sad. If any of you took the time to educate yourselves about the history of Israel, then maybe you would support them. They don't randomly kill Arabs as you say. They defend themselves. It is sickening that my enemy, the right, supports Israel, and that makes me tied to them on that one issue. Israel has ever right to defend themselves against the millions of people surrounding them that want to kill them. Israel and a great deal of Jewish intellect, created the atomic bomb, and anyone that thinks Israel should not have nuclear power is insane. They made it, they can own it!!!
Posted by Tiger2Lover at 09/14/2009 @ 11:32pm
All the bullshit from these two racist anti-Arab clowns aside, here is a fantastic photo of an abusive, racist prick referred to as a "settler" hurling wine at a Palestinian woman on the street. In a racist apartheid nation, you see, he can get away this shit.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/09/13/wor ld/20090913SETTLERS_6.html
All you need to see is that photo, and you understand: Israel is a nation of savages armed with the best weaponry the US has to offer. The result? An utterly brutal people who think they are God's Chosen People and who treat the natives of the land they live in like human garbage.
It would par for the course for the Western world ... in the 15th and 16th centuries.
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 11:56pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:52pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You call people racist, but then you just authored 30 posts in a row spewing this hatred of Arab people out. Whoever you are, you have some very serious personal problems. I hope you work them out before you lose control and hurt someone -
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 11:58pm
Here is another great photo from the Times: an armed religious maniac with an automatic rifle practicing pointing it at children:
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2009/09/13/wor ld/20090913SETTLERS_7.html
It's just amazing: in front of the whole world, these maniacs are being allowed to practice ethnic cleansing and de facto land theft, and to treat people brutally ...
Posted by syfriendly at 09/15/2009 @ 12:01am
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:50pm
"The land of Israel itself was mostly (around 80%) a desolate wasteland."
Absolute rubbish. Ben Gurion states the exact opposite in his diaries.
In 1948, Israel drove 800,000 Palestinians from their land, and did so to achieve a Jewish majority, so if 80% was desolate wasteland, there would have been no need.
The was known as a Nakba, teh great catstrophe and the beginig foa 60 year genocide.
No one has ever described what happened to the Palestinians as the golden age for Palestinian Arabs. 5 million are refugees and those in Gaza and eh west Bank are on the bring of starvation.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:03am
That it has been offered but refused to accept.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:52pm
Given that Iran has been forced to accept all the liabilities of the NPT, but denied all of the benefits, it's little wonder that Iran woudl place the security of it's power industry in foreign hands.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:04am
Almost everyone who posts on this website is silly, and many Nation writers, like Cockburn, Dreyfuss, Younge, Klein, and Chomsky are criminally insane.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 10:18pm
Is this why you are so addicted to the web site?
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:06am
Or how about the enslavement of women in brothels, which is now far larger than the trans-Atlantic slave trade at its height? Some 3.5 million women are being jailed, drugged, and raped for cash today. This brutalization of women doesn't have to happen any more than the enslavement of Africans did in the 18th century. "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 8:03pm
The epicenter of the world sex slave trade is Israel.
Israel has also been exposed as trafficking in stolen human organs.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:08am
Nothing like having a naive fool in charge of military preparedness and national security!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/14/2009 @ 7:30pm
We're used to it, having had 8 years of it.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:15am
Looks like Irans good friends are stepping up for Huey C.!
The United States voiced alarm Monday that Venezuela's weapons purchases may be fueling a Latin American arms race after a deal between Caracas and Moscow to buy tanks and anti-aircraft rockets.
"We have concerns in general about Venezuela's stated desire to increase its arms build-up, which we think poses a serious challenge to stability in the Western Hemisphere," State Department spokesman Ian Kelly told reporters.
"What they are looking to purchase and what they are purchasing outpaces all other countries in South America," he said.
In Caracas on Sunday, Venezuela said it had obtained a 2.2-billion-dollar credit from Russia to purchase nearly 100 T72 tanks and a series of anti-aircraft rocket systems from its strategic ally.
Kelly was responding to questions over reports that Venezuela's anti-US President Hugo Chavez also wanted Russia's help to pursue a peaceful nuclear program and about possible fears Caracas would import nuclear or other technology from Iran.
"We urge Venezuela to be transparent in its purchases, and very clear about the purposes of these purchases," Kelly said at the daily press briefing.
"And we're also very concerned that they put in place very clear procedures and safeguards that these arms are not diverted to any irregular or illegal organizations," he added.
Posted by BigPasture at 09/15/2009 @ 12:33am
Posted by BigPasture at 09/15/2009 @ 12:33am
Just listen to the wingnuts like BigPasture paniking. The US spends half a trillion dollars every year on defense, but is alarmed that Venezuela spends 2 billion.
The sky is falling.
Are we that helpless and defenseless?
So Venezuela buys a few tanks. Big deal. Tanks are no concern unless we invade. Anti-aircraft rocket systems are no threat unless we attack.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 01:12am
On the other hand, the Palestinians were pro-Hitler during the Holocaust.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/14/2009 @ 9:56pm
Absolute rubbish.
The Palestinians ejected Husseini's call for Jihad and fought on the allies because Britain had promised them independence.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 01:13am
No, it is the truth. It's just that most of you anti-semites refuse to be honest about it.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/14/2009 @ 9:40pm
Like you are a facist ,xenophobic, evangelical dispensationist nutjob, but refuse to be honest about it?
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 01:16am
an Iran that is ushered into the age of peaceful use of nuclear energy, including enrichment, in exchange for a comprehensive settlement.
This is where I think Dreyfuss injects a little bit of fantasy into the article. The US doesn't want Iran to be "ushered into the age of peaceful use of nuclear energy." Iran is an independent country that doesn't take orders, US imperial interests are to contain and domisticate Iran, if dialogue fails, force will follow.
Posted by Communard115 at 09/15/2009 @ 02:06am
Posted by Communard115 at 09/15/2009 @ 02:06am
While I understand your sentiments, I think the painful lessons of Iraq have demonstrated that the US has no option. This is also confirmed by the fact that even Bush realized this when he denied the Israeli's permission to bomb Iran last year.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 02:12am
If the figures and parties who hold power are as abysmally stupid, rotten, and outright silly as a number of people commenting on this web site, then there is no hope for an improved situation on this or any other issue.
For my part I have tried and tried now to get something out of the "interactive" part of this web site. For the most part, you have about 90% moronic and/or demented geeks with too much time on their hands regurgitating what they read on some other web site as if it is sacred fact they personally know to be true. The people who staff The Nation are generally professional journalists, or editors, or interns, and they normally face insults and attacks on their credibilities from people who haven't left their living rooms and television sets for 40 years.
I'll probably continue to poke in a bit - I like to get the insights that the journalists have because they actually go places and talk to people who know things and see real things themselves - but basically I think I am through with the "comments" as these are normally dominated by absolute clowns whose ignorance is normally in great proportion to their arrogance. Throw in leisure and there is toxic combination. They say that "idle hands are the devils workshop" but the devil was never this stupid.
Posted by syfriendly at 09/15/2009 @ 02:51am
Iran is making Obamanation look like the fool he is and as impotent as the U.N. in world influence!
President Obama and other world leaders agreed in June to give Iran until the end of September to take up an offer of nuclear talks and suspend uranium enrichment. But just this month, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country will neither halt uranium enrichment nor negotiate over its nuclear rights. But he is ready to talk with world powers about "global challenges."
Last week, Ahmadinejad issued a five-page proposal announcing his readiness in principle to conduct negotiations on disarmament, trade, fighting terrorism and protecting human dignity. But because the proposal sidesteps the request for a nuclear enrichment freeze, the document might not be accepted as the basis for starting talks.
Geoffrey Kemp, director of regional strategic programs at the Nixon Center, warns that Iran's proposal "… is so huge that the talks will go on forever and meanwhile the clock is ticking on their nuclear program." Understandably Israel, which faces what it characterizes as an "existential threat" from an atomic Iran, is running out of patience with international efforts to stop Tehran.
Experts monitoring Iran share the belief that Tehran is on a track to develop an atomic weapon perhaps within a year. In February, Dennis Blair, U.S. director of National Intelligence, told Congress "Iran is clearly developing all the components of a deliverable nuclear weapons program -- fissionable material, nuclear weaponizing capability and the means to deliver it." He believes Iran "… could have a weapon as early as 2010."
Posted by BigPasture at 09/15/2009 @ 06:53am
Glyn Davies, the U.S. ambassador to the UN's nuclear watchdog group the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), said Iran already has enough material for one bomb, should it decide to further process its uranium. Davies admits Washington is concerned that Tehran might already have a "dangerous and destabilizing possible breakout capacity" to quickly make a bomb.
A "breakout capacity" would be hard to detect because, according to Blair, "Iran probably would use military-run covert facilities … to produce HEU [highly enriched uranium]" for atomic weapons. Iran could already have covert atomic facilities. After all, it kept its atomic program secret from the West for 18 years until a dissident group revealed the existence of enrichment efforts.
Even the normally Iran-sympathetic Mohamed El-Baradei, the outgoing IAEA director, said "there is a high probability" that Iran has worked on nuclear weapons. He claims Iranian documents reviewed by the IAEA outline a study on the modification of the model of a missile to carry a nuclear warhead. IAEA inspectors also believe the same Iranian group that runs warhead-design programs, Project 110 and Project 111, may be working on nuclear triggers, trajectories for missiles and above ground -- read atomic -- warhead detonations.
Posted by BigPasture at 09/15/2009 @ 06:54am
Israel and a great deal of Jewish intellect, created the atomic bomb,
whattabunchofnonsense.
Israel did NOT "create" the atomic bomb. there was no Israel at the time of the building of the bomb.
yes, there were jews involved, German jews, Italian jews and American jews, etc.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 07:05am
Posted by syfriendly at 09/14/2009 @ 11:56pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I too was revolted by that picture of the Israeli punk abusing the Palestinian woman, but I am equally revolted by your sliming an entire nation for the act of a few.
I remember quite well seeing the dogs set upon people, murder committed by southern Americans during the 60s.
not once did I believe that all Americans were guilty of these crimes.
your self serving good bye note is appreciated. in fact I'll beat you to it, using my cherished ignore button.
good riddance.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 07:09am
Well, Netanyahu wlll naturally be ignored on this...just as he'll ignore calls to stop building settlements.
And we'll get into another round of neo-cons "hinting" that we should attack Iran.
And another round of Israel-bashing. With another round of "Israel Right or Wrong!" And everybody calling each other bigots.
But basic facts won't change... Bush and Rice tried diplomacy...so is Obama.
Posted by Mask at 09/14/2009 @ 12:43pm
"I love it when a plan comes together"---"Hannibal" Smith--"The A-Team"
Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 07:30am
Posted by syfriendly at 09/15/2009 @ 02:51am | ignore this person | warn this person
I do not necessarily disagree with your characterization about the comments posted here. But you shouldn't be looking for erudition in a comic book. It's an ideological food fight here.
Moreover, I am sure that you consider your own posts top be in the esteemed 10% category. But I bet that many here think of you as a one note wonder whose comments are predictable and pedestrian. You're very much a part of the mass 90%. You just don't realize it.
Posted by gren at 09/15/2009 @ 09:25am
"I love it when a plan comes together"---"Hannibal" Smith--"The A-Team" Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 07:30am | ignore this person |
--patting himself on the back for "predicting" something that's happened on these boards over the past decade literally dozens (if not hundreds) of times...
next: Mask predicts the sun will come back up! (Mask, referring to a previous post of his "predicting" the sun would rise: "I nailed it!")...heheh
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:00am
syfriendly
you think your shit don't stink?
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 11:18am
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:00am
You're right...I forgot to include...
"and urmy will focus on ME, because I own his ass on this blog!"
heheh
Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 11:35am
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:00am You're right...I forgot to include... "and urmy will focus on ME, because I own his ass on this blog!" heheh Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 11:35am | ignore this person |
Mask is OWNED by the right-wing media!...baited, and hook, line, and sinker---next!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:53am
September 9, 2009 Israel-Europe Relations Strained Under Netanyahu By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 4:35 a.m. ET
JERUSALEM (AP) -- A nasty diplomatic row with Sweden, Norway's decision to divest from an Israeli defense contractor and rising European condemnation of Israeli settlements point to growing friction in the Jewish state's already tricky relationship with Europe.
European countries are taking a notably sharper tone at a time when a new U.S. administration is more willing to take Israel to task. Last winter's Gaza war and the advent of a right-wing government in Israel have fueled increasingly vociferous criticism of Israel on a continent that is home to some of its most important allies and trading partners.
Israel's request for an upgrade in its trade relationship with the European Union has been put on hold. Calls for boycotts of Israel and divestment from Israeli companies have been gaining steam. And tens of thousands of Europeans have taken to the streets in recent months to protest Israeli actions, especially the high civilian toll in its bruising war against Hamas militants in Gaza.
Western Europe, with its sizable Muslim minorities and influential leftist movements, has long been less buoyant about Israel than the United States, with its large Jewish population and conservative political base. Yet the European Union is Israel's biggest trading partner, accounting for about one third of imports and exports.
That could give Europe significant leverage in pushing Israel to stop expanding settlements on lands the Palestinians claim for a future state -- the main U.S. and Palestinian demand before resuming Mideast peace talks.
Israel is seeking upgraded trade ties that would give it tax breaks and better access to EU markets....
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 11:57am
Well, Bibi's gambit right now looks pretty pathetic. And no doubt, it is ruffling a few feathers here back at home. Europe's likely response is going to be 2 state solution or sanctions. Bibi's got nothing to offer.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 12:01pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:53am
Nope...just own you. Or as the kids say..."pwned".
Like I said, you couldn't go a DAY without responding to me. Kinda fun having my own "Annie Wilkes".
Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 2:01pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 11:53am Nope...just own you. Or as the kids say..."pwned". Like I said, you couldn't go a DAY without responding to me. Kinda fun having my own "Annie Wilkes". Posted by Mask at 09/15/2009 @ 2:01pm | ignore this person |
--like I said, you're OWNED by the right-wing media...I'll be sure to be there next time you're focusing on Beck, Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly...I'm sure they enjoy having you as their own "Annie Wilkes"...heheh
SUPER-PWNED!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 2:38pm
Nuclear weapons technology is 64 years old, older than color television, the laser, the pocket calculator and the microwave oven. Iraq was building the Osirak reactor almost thirty years ago.
Considering the ease with which nuclear weapons (not to mention chemical, biological and radiological) can be produced, how long do you think it will be before somebody, state or terrorist organization, builds and uses one of these weapons against Israel?
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 3:18pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 2:38pm
You've been put in a bind.
If you don't respond, you've let your opponent have the last word and your opponent can claim you don't have an answer to the last argument.
If you do respond, you are accused of being an "Annie Wilkes."
Safest to put such people on "ignore" since their arguments try to make up for a lack of rigor with ad-hominem.
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 3:24pm
Yet the European Union is Israel's biggest trading partner, accounting for about one third of imports and exports.
That could give Europe significant leverage in pushing Israel
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 11:57am
Europe has lots of trade with Turkey, but they'll never get Constantinople back.
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 3:27pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 2:38pm
You've been put in a bind.
If you don't respond, you've let your opponent have the last word and your opponent can claim you don't have an answer to the last argument.
If you do respond, you are accused of being an "Annie Wilkes."
Safest to put such people on "ignore" since their arguments try to make up for a lack of rigor with ad-hominem.
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 3:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--no bind at all! you see, I trapped Mask into the position that he's OWNED by right-wing media. The only way he could get out of that is to admit his logic is not impermeable and that I am right. Of course, he is incapable of such, so I continue to make fun of him. Now, he's just trying to save face. It's see-through and ineffective; he can call me any name he wants; it's irrelevant. He has been OWNED! heheh!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 3:28pm
He has been OWNED! heheh!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/15/2009 @ 3:28pm
You have manipulated Mask to completion of the journey to the Dark Side. Mask is now ready to strike down Vader and take a place at the Emperor's side.
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 4:05pm
I believe it was Albert Einstein who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.
We've been talking to Iran indirectly and directly for YEARS. Yet you think this time things will be different.
(See Albert Einstein's defininition of insanity.)
Posted by JackDavis1 at 09/15/2009 @ 4:11pm
JackDavis1
can we apply this standard to our two goddamn wars?
what is the alternative to negotiations?
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 4:12pm
Europe has lots of trade with Turkey, but they'll never get Constantinople back.
Posted by Mistral at 09/15/2009 @ 3:27pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Well as long as the US backstops Israel's economy and military, I guess European leverage may be overstated.
Perhaps I am overly optimistic. Perhaps Bibi is too.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 4:40pm
Israel has also been exposed as trafficking in stolen human organs.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:08am | ignore this person | warn this person
Israelis also kill Palestinian children and use their blood to bake matzoh.
Posted by gren at 09/15/2009 @ 4:57pm
Israel has also been exposed as trafficking in stolen human organs.
exposed by whom? you? c'mon now. why don't you shove this crap up your keister.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 5:07pm
Who is squealing? Russia is helping Venezuela with Nuclear Technology. How is that Hillary RESET button working? European Union wasted 3 years talking with Iran. Its a waste of time same as talks with Arafat during the Clinton Administration.
Posted by Dencal26 at 09/15/2009 @ 5:11pm
<Israel has also been exposed as trafficking in stolen human organs.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:08am
Israelis also kill Palestinian children and use their blood to bake matzoh.
Posted by gren at 09/15/2009 @ 4:57pm>
Gren, there is no limit to the desire to spread these anti-semitic stories that come out of Muslim countries by people like Shingo. They are willing pawns in this hatred of Jews.
<The anti-Semitic blogosphere and many Arab and Muslim media outlets are aflutter in recent days over accusations of an international Jewish conspiracy to kidnap Algerian children and harvest their organs.
Unlike the multiple conspiracy theories about Jews circulating among radical fringe organizations online, this one seems to be gaining momentum on mainstream Arab and Muslim Web sites.
According to the story, first reported by Algeria's Al-Khabar daily, bands of Moroccans and Algerians have allegedly been roaming the streets of Algeria's cities kidnapping young children, who are then transported across the border into Morocco. From the Moroccan city of Oujda, the children are then purportedly sold to Israelis and American Jews, who then harvest their organs for sale in Israel and the United States. The organs are said to fetch anywhere from $20,000 to $100,000.
The source for the Al-Khabar report seems to be a Dr. Mustafa Khayatti, head of the Algerian National Committee for the Development of Health Research. Khayatti reportedly claimed that several Jews were arrested in New York in connection with the trade. He claimed Interpol knew of the situation and was leading the investigation into the abductions.
continued
Posted by antisocialist at 09/15/2009 @ 5:14pm
Continued on the Arab press lie about Jews harvesting the organs of Muslim children
<The report "sounds as [though] Dr. Khayatti is well connected within the FBI and has access to Interpol documents," but this was not the case, wrote Hassan Masiky, a reporter for the American Moroccan news service MoroccoBoard.com.
"Needless to say, neither Al-Khabar nor PressTV provided a source for their story, other than an obscure low-level Algerian bureaucrat," Masiky complained. The Iranian PressTV noted in its coverage that the report followed claims made in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet last month of an IDF conspiracy to harvest organs from kidnapped Palestinians.
The connection indicated "a possible link between the Israeli military and the mafia of human organs detected in the US," the Iranian report said. Aftonbladet, too, did not offer evidence in its article, relying on claims by a handful of Palestinians who spoke to the reporter.>
http://tinyurl.com/p3gh3f
Posted by antisocialist at 09/15/2009 @ 5:16pm
Appeasers never learn. Iran is closer and closer to having a nuclear arsenal, and if nobody noticed Iran's good friend just finished a visit. Iran is going to run out the clock having tea with Obama. Then we are going to wake up to a nuclear bomb test followed by the announcement that they have 20 of the things in stock and and have shared 5 of them with President for Life Chavez! A Radical, Alarmist, Crazy scennario? Remeber that while PM Chamberlain was pursing "Peace in our Time" with Chancellor Hitler, Winston Churchill was being denounced and villified as a crazy war monger! Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it! We are in the time of "The Gathering Storm"!
Posted by valwayne at 09/15/2009 @ 6:31pm
Continued on the Arab press lie about Jews harvesting the organs of Muslim children
Posted by antisocialist at 09/15/2009 @ 5:16pm
This was exposed by the Swedish press, no the Arab press, whatever the Arab press might be.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 6:36pm
This was exposed by the Swedish press, no the Arab press, whatever the Arab press might be.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 6:36pm
Further to this, an Israeli doctor admitted that theft of organs was taking place and was state sanctioned by eh Olmert government.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 6:39pm
Iran is closer and closer to having a nuclear arsenal, and if nobody noticed Iran's good friend just finished a visit
Posted by valwayne at 09/15/2009 @ 6:31pm
Please link to a US intelligence report that back this statement.
I take it you're not intentionally lying, just ill informed.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 6:41pm
Israelis also kill Palestinian children and use their blood to bake matzoh.
Posted by gren at 09/15/2009 @ 4:57pm
When all else fails, there's always the straw man right Gren?
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 6:59pm
Gren, there is no limit to the desire to spread these anti-semitic stories that come out of Muslim countries by people like Shingo. They are willing pawns in this hatred of Jews.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/15/2009 @ 5:14pm
There is no limit to the lengths the religious evangelical end of timers will go to insist that any negative comments about Israel are an attack on all Jews.
BTW Larry, I am Jewish you putz.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 7:03pm
Who is squealing? Russia is helping Venezuela with Nuclear Technology. How is that Hillary RESET button working? European Union wasted 3 years talking with Iran. Its a waste of time same as talks with Arafat during the Clinton Administration.
Posted by Dencal26 at 09/15/2009 @ 5:11pm
Russia is selling Venezuela weapons who's only application would be to defend itself against an attack. Oh the outrage!! Didn't anyone tell then that only Israel as the US has that right?
"European Union wasted 3 years talking with Iran."
That's because, having rejected Iran's offer to meet all off Washington's demands re nuclear programs and ties to Hamas/Hezbollah, the Bush Administration tied the EU's hands and refused to allow them to arrive at any agreements with Iran.
" Its a waste of time same as talks with Arafat during the Clinton Administration."
That's because by Dennis Ross' own admission, the US acted like Israel's lawyers, when they were supposed to be a neutral mediators.
BTW. As a wingnut, you're probably unaware that at Taba, both Barak and Arafat stated they were on the verge of an agreement. Barak called off the talks early becasue of the impending election, whcih he lost to Sharon, the patron saint of settlers.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 7:19pm
shingo-Name the Israeli doctor and tell us what facts were presented to back up the claim.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:20pm
"Is this why you are so addicted to the web site?"
I'm always open to other points of view.
Besides, as I said already: "Cockburn has in recent essays called Gaza a genocide and compared it to Darfur, argued that the US is far more of a rouge nation than North Korea, and said that Obama's "handling" of the "coup" in Honduras "suggests a sinister strategy of counterattack on the leftist trends of the past few years". Maybe criminally insane is too harsh, but he clearly suffers from mental delusion (though he's always entertaining, at least)."
He IS certainly always entertaining. Besides, I actually like Patricia J. Williams and JoAnn Wypejewski.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:29pm
"BTW Larry, I am Jewish you putz."
You are a Jew who has said that American involvement in WW2 used inordinate force and was unnessessary, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and is spreading around an updated version of the blood libel myth.
You clearly are a self-hating Jew.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:33pm
"Nothing like having a naive fool in charge of military preparedness and national security!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/14/2009 @ 7:30pm
We're used to it, having had 8 years of it."
I thought that Bush is a cynical realist anti-idealistic amoral war criminal who brutally attacked Iraq for NO REASON except to steal its oil?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:37pm
shingo-Name the Israeli doctor and tell us what facts were presented to back up the claim.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person
See Jewish Bioethics, Edward Simon, page 376.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 7:43pm
"You call people racist, but then you just authored 30 posts in a row spewing this hatred of Arab people out."
You are a racist. You wish the 51,000 Ethiopians Israel saved were all dead. You wish the Taliban genocide of the Afghans was still going on and you no doubt support the government of Sudan.
"All Israelis are racist because of a crime committed by one of them that we know of only because Israel has a free press"? Collectivist.
Why did Israel save 51,000 Ethiopians and give 1 million Arabs more rights than they have in any Arab country if they are so racist?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:43pm
"The epicenter of the world sex slave trade is Israel."
You're crazy with anti-Jewish sentiment.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:45pm
"During the 20-year period of 1967-1987 under Israeli rule, some 250,000 Israelis settled in the Territories. These were the supposedly predatory settlers. They supplied the infrastructure of power, water, education, and medical care that attracted nearly ten Arab settlers for every one Israeli. During this period, the economy in the territories grew some 25 percent per year, nearly the fastest in the world, and far faster than that of Israel itself, which was still bogged down in socialism. Arab life expectancy rose from 40 to around 70. Their incomes tripled while their population soared. Seven universities and 2,500 factories were established. It was the golden age for Palestinian Arabs."
How racist!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:46pm
exposed by whom? you? c'mon now. why don't you shove this crap up your keister.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 5:07pm | ignore this person | warn this person
JR - you don't read the news? What a DF you are. You've got Rabbis in NY trading in human parts and money laundering.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 7:49pm
"Israel has every right to defend themselves against the millions of people surrounding them that want to kill them."
You may not share the sentiment as a sane liberal, but the far left radical lunatics that post here do not believe in self-defense. They believe in a complete government ban on all handguns, so that only those who break the law can use them.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:50pm
valwayne
Iran is not Germany, and this is not 1938. Iran is not asking for any territorial concession, nor has it done so in the past.
I suggest you stick to watching old movies on TV.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/15/2009 @ 7:50pm
You're crazy with anti-Jewish sentiment.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Sure you aren't a crazed Zionist LibertyfortheOppressed?
Glad you changed your moniker - its a better fit.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 7:52pm
"Sure you aren't a crazed Zionist"
What's wrong with being a Zionist?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:53pm
onevote-So,what you are saying is that if a few people from a particular group do something bad,like sell organs,then that means that all from that group are bad.I disagree and believe that such a view is the view of a scared child.What does Edward Simon have to do with naming the Israeli doctor and providing facts to back up the Swedish story claim?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:54pm
"So,what you are saying is that if a few people from a particular group do something bad,like sell organs,then that means that all from that group are bad.I disagree and believe that such a view is the view of a scared child."
Liberals think this way because they are collectivists and racists and tribalists.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:56pm
Too many of the posters have strayed off message. The issue was whether we should talk to the Iranians about various issues. If all of you "Bomb the Bastards for Jesus" would read a couple articles from Haaretz (June 17)you might just be willing to suggest to the Uber Zionists that their claims that the Iranians will have a Nuke next week is all hot air. "Mossad: Iran Will Have Nuclear Bomb by 2014" and "Israel Can't Make up it's Mind About Iran Nuclear Timetable". Only one publication, a newsletter for Army officers, printed that story in the US. It was censored in the US and Europe. Apparently the Likkudniks were embarrassed that Meir Dagan of the Mossad would tell the truth and mess up their wet dream of bombing Iran based on constant lies. In the US we have different government officials that have been influenced to parrot the AIPAC and other Israeli BS about how close Iran is to building a Nuke. Obama is one of those parrots and Biden is even worse. Our own CIA predicts Iran could build a nuke by 2015 "IF" they decide to. The only evidence that the Iranians were ever working on bomb design is based on information from a laptop computer that wound up at the CIA. A number of people say it was created by the Mossad. Remember the yellow cake from Niger,biological weapons trailers, Hussein helped blow up the world trade center. They were all damnable lies and many of them were created by Uber Zionists in the Office of Special Plans under Douglas Feith. Smart people will not believe this newest pack of lies.
Posted by Aarky at 09/15/2009 @ 7:57pm
rightwingnutcase-Actually,many humans think that way including many conservatives,as you just proved with your stereotypical response..You just did what onevote did.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:58pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:54pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Autopsy (taking of body parts) is authorized under Israeli law. For Jews in Israel, authorities tend to back off due to resentment by many groups, but for non-Jews (such as Palestinians), authorities are free to dissect and take body parts at will. Looks like the Doctor is right.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 7:59pm
What's wrong with being a Zionist?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 7:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person
A "crazed" Zionist is a liar, terrorist and a criminal. Ask Israel!
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:02pm
"Remember the yellow cake from Niger"
That was a true story. Saddam also would have gotten WMD from North Korea if not for the invasion. Saddam was involved in the 1993 WTC attack. He attempted to carry out at least one terror attack against an American target in 1998. Clinton also caught him reaching out to Osama and working with Sudan to give Osama WMD. Saddam tried to kill one of our Presidents. His jihadist media called 9/11 "just the beginning of a larger revenge". He harbored numerous AQ terrorists, was involved in worldwide assassinations, and killed many Israeli civilians through suicide bombings. Saddam had plans in place to construct a nuclear arsenal after the sanctions were lifted. He would have gotten an atom bomb if not for the 1991 war. He repeatedly threatened America and vowed to wipe Israel off the map.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:06pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:20pm
Dr. Yehuda Hiss is the name.
For a number of years there were allegations that Israel's leading pathologist was stealing body parts. In 2001 the Israeli national news service reported:
"… the parents of soldier Ze'ev Buzgallo who was killed in a Golan Heights military training accident, are filing a petition with the High Court of Justice calling for the immediate suspension of Dr. Yehuda Hiss and that criminal charges be filed against him. Hiss serves as the director of the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute….According to the parents, the body of their son was used for medical experimentation without their consent, experiments authorized by Hiss."
In 2002 the service reported:
"The revelation of illegally stored body parts in the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute has prompted MK Anat Maor, chairman of the Knesset Science Committee, to demand the immediate suspension of the director, Prof. Yehuda Hiss."
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:07pm
You just did what onevote did.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 7:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person
What I did was point you to a source that might educate an ignorant ass like yourself. But, you opinions are preformed, and you are not interested in educating yourself. Don't be a poser Nobody. You are obvious to everyone.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:07pm
onevote-Because it is legal under Jewish law then it automatically means that the doctor you guys have yet to name is correct?Good thing that breathing is automatic.If it required thought you two would die.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:09pm
onevote-I see from your juvenile response that you have nothing to say.I'm a poser who is obvious to everybody?Was that supposed to make sense?Are you posting from a psychiatric facility?By the way,I have studied Jewish law.You have nothing to teach.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:12pm
That was a true story.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:06pm
Rubbish. This allegation was base don forged documents and later admitted to being a false statement by the Bush Administration.
Saddam had no involvement in the 1993 WTC attack.
The story that he attempted to carry out at least one terror attack against an American target in 1998 has been debunked by the 2006 Senate report.
The 2006 Senate Report also debunked any sugegstion that he was invovement with OBL.
The story that Saddam tried to kill one of our Presidents was also debunked.
Saddam was not a jihadist, and tehre is no evidecne that Iraqi media called 9/11 "just the beginning of a larger revenge".
The 2006 Senate Report debunked any suggestion he harbored numerous AQ terrorists.
Saddam was not involved in any worldwide assassinations, or killing of Israeli civilians through suicide bombings.
Saddam never managed to build a single nuclear bombs and as such, the suggestion that he had plans in place to construct a nuclear arsenal after the sanctions were lifted is false.
Saddam had given up trying to make a bomb by 1991 war.
He NEVER threatened America and NEVER vowed to wipe Israel off the map.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:13pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:09pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Stealing of body parts has been going on in Israel for years. This is not an isolated incident. Are you really this stupid?
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:13pm
shingo-You guys are worried about dead peoples body parts?Why?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:14pm
,I have studied Jewish law.You have nothing to teach.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:12pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Ah....so we have established that you are Jewish. Maybe you are stupid and defensive - double whammy to truth.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:16pm
onevote-Stealing body parts has been going on everywhere since time began.Borrowing your statement-Are you really that stupid?Who am I supposed to be pretending to be or not be?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:16pm
Autopsy (taking of body parts) is authorized under Israeli law. For Jews in Israel, authorities tend to back off due to resentment by many groups, but for non-Jews (such as Palestinians), authorities are free to dissect and take body parts at will. Looks like the Doctor is right.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 7:59pm
That depends on what you mean by autopsy, which is not the taking of body parts, but the study of the cause of death. What you're saying is that so long as Israeli law allows the theft of body parts (aginst teh wishes on the family) that it's perfectly acceptable.
Also, Israel has a track record of stealing body parts.
In 1998, Israeli medical authorities stole body organs from a Scottish tourist, Alistair Sinclair, who died under mysterious circumstances inside Ben Gurion Airport. Sinclair's family sued Israeli authorities upon finding that their son's heart and other organs were missing. According to one report, a replacement heart and organs were sent to his mother, who didn't believe that these were her son's.
Israel's very first, historic heart transplant used a heart removed from a living patient without consent or consulting his family.
The hospital at first denied that Sadegat's heart had been used in the headline-making transplant, but the family raised a media storm and eventually applied to three cabinet ministers. Finally, weeks later and after the family had signed a document promising not to sue, the hospital admitted to taking Sadagat's heart and using it.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:17pm
"He NEVER threatened America" Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:13pm
"Saddam's threats to US, Britain, Syria, France etc was just hot air and grand standing for local political consumption. During the debates of Republican primaries, all the candidates were frequently engaging is upping the war rhetoric to prove who had the biggest cajones. Then when the Presidential race began, the tone came down significantly."
Posted by Shingo at 07/19/2009 @ 6:58pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:17pm
"Ah....so we have established that you are Jewish."
And now we've established that you hate Jews.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:18pm
Stealing body parts has been going on everywhere since time began.Borrowing your statement-Are you really that stupid?Who am I supposed to be pretending to be or not be?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:16pm
So at first you deny Israel is doing it, but when confronted with evidence that they are, your response is that everyone does it.
Pathetic.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:18pm
onevote-As I have stated on here multitudes of times-I studied for several years to become Jewish,but never did.I have stated numerous times that I study several different beliefs systems.You are paranoid.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:19pm
Pathetic.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:18pm | ignore this person | warn this person
G-d help us.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:20pm
shingo-You guys are worried about dead peoples body parts?Why?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:14pm
Perhaps becasue taking body parts opens the door to killing people in order to take their body parts.
Taking body parts is a violation of the human rights of the victims and their families.
If this was of no concern, then desecrating graves should be no big deal either right?
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:20pm
shingo-Can you show me where I denied that some Israelis may do that?It is your lack of reading comprehension skills that are pathetic and explain much.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:21pm
shingo-There are plenty of body parts.No need to kill just to get them.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:22pm
"Saddam's threats to US, Britain, Syria, France etc was just hot air and grand standing for local political consumption. During the debates of Republican primaries, all the candidates were frequently engaging is upping the war rhetoric to prove who had the biggest cajones. Then when the Presidential race began, the tone came down significantly."
Posted by Shingo at 07/19/2009 @ 6:58pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Those threats were based on the likelihood of an attack on Iraq. he never threatened to attack these countries otherwise.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:23pm
shiongo-If someone wants to desecrate my grave I can assure you that I will not care.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:24pm
shingo-There are plenty of body parts.No need to kill just to get them.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:22pm
You're still not allow to take them without permission of the prospective donor or the prospective donor's family.
This is especially true if that person happens to be aliive.
Your desperate back peddling is rather sad.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:25pm
shingo-I have not back peddled.It is just that you do not understand what you read.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:26pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Paranoid???????????
The Feds just busted a NY/Israel ILLEGAL body parts ring and you think I am paranoid?
People are frickin killed for body parts everyday. The victims are generally the dispossessed - like the Palestinians.
This is the most heinous evil.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:26pm
hingo-Can you show me where I denied that some Israelis may do that?It is your lack of reading comprehension skills that are pathetic and explain much.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:21pm
If you had no reason to deny it, then why did you ask for the name of the doctor involved?
Face it, you've been exposed as an Israeli propagandist.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:26pm
This is the most heinous evil.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:26pm
Not when Israel does it.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:28pm
Shingo-I admit to being pro Israel making your claim that I have been exposed rather ignorant.So,I had a super secret plot reason to ask for the doctors name?Are you a patient at a psychiatric facility?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:29pm
"He NEVER threatened America and NEVER vowed to wipe Israel off the map."
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/956084.stm
"Wednesday, 4 October, 2000, 13:35 GMT 14:35 UK
Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein has said his country could destroy Israel if it was given access to land next to the Jewish state.
On Wednesday, Iraq's state controlled newspapers carried the president's threat, which he made following the recent bloody clashes between Israelis and Palestinians.
Iraqis are calling the threat one of the strongest statements by Saddam Hussein in years.
An idle boast or a serious threat to Israel? With Iraq's unpredictable leader, it is hard to tell.
The government controlled press quoted the president as saying Iraq could put an end to Zionism in a very short time if only it was given a piece of land next to Israel.
That is highly unlikely to happen, but Iraq did physically attack Israel during the Gulf War nine years ago by firing 39 Scud missiles at the Jewish state."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:29pm
onevote-Your claim that I'm a secret Jewish poser which proves you are paranoid.You have some Jews here doing some bad things and claim that means that all do bad things.You sound like the KKK and how they talk about blacks and Jews.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:32pm
Are you a patient at a psychiatric facility?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:29pm
Translation: I've just lost the debate so I'll resort to personal abuse and denial.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:33pm
Aarky,
You say the Iranians could build a nuclear bomb by 2015 if they want to.
It seems like any article you see on the internet has a different prediction as to the date they can have a nuclear weapon.
I saw one today (I don't remember where now) that said 2010.
Uh, 2010 is next year!
I have a suggestion. Bomb the Iranians now, and then we don't have to worry about "timetables" any more.
You mentioned the yell0w cake from Niger. (with regard to Saddam). You do know, don't you, that the Brits stand by that story to this very day?
You are fixated on Saddam and nuclear weapons. You seem to have overlooked chemical and biological weapons.
You do know, don't you, that Saddam was going to re-start his WMD program once he had been let off of the hook, which is eventually where Hans Blix's inspections would have led if George W. Bush and Tony Blair had let it.
But they did not let Saddam jerk us around. They stopped Saddam. So now we don't have to worry about Saddam developing chemical or biological weapons anymore, do we?
On a much smaller scale, and only symbolic but no less important, you probably remember that Moammar Gadhafi was going to stay at a house in New Jersey and pitch a Bedouin tent in the yard during his upcoming visit to the U.N. later this month.
The citizens of New Jersey said no, he was not welcome there. As a result, the terrorist criminal Gadhafi will not be visiting or staying in New Jersey.
The people of New Jersey forced the terrorist animal Gadhafi to back off.
The message here is standing up to thugs and dictators does work. Capitulation, discussion, dialogue, negotiation, etc. only enables them.
So stand up to Iran, bomb their asses, and stop any possibility of them developing a nuke. They have jerked the world around enough.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/15/2009 @ 8:33pm
shingo-I see you are another who declares yourself to be the winner of a debate that never took place.You are quite paranoid,as you proved,making it impossible for you to win any debate based upon reason.All you and onevote have stated is that I'm plotting and other loony claims and then declare yourself to be the winner.But I'm real and not part of this plot that exists only in your minds.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:38pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:29pm
"news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/956084.stm"
There is no vow to wipe Israel off the map.
From your link: "An idle boast or a serious threat to Israel? With Iraq's unpredictable leader, it is hard to tell."
No evidence of Saddam's On Wednesday, Iraq's state controlled newspapers carried the president's threat, which he made following the recent bloody clashes between Israelis and Palestinians.
Iraqis are calling the threat one of the strongest statements by Saddam Hussein in years.
An idle boast or a serious threat to Israel? With Iraq's unpredictable leader, it is hard to tell.
As for your other points.
No link to Niger uranium.
No evidence of Saddam's involvement in the 1993 WTC attack.
No evidence of Saddam's terror attack against an American target in 1998.
No evidence of Saddam's involvement with OBL.
No evidence of Saddam's Saddam tried to kill one of our Presidents.
No evidence of Saddam's media called 9/11 "just the beginning of a larger revenge".
No evidence of Saddam harbored numerous AQ terrorists.
No evidence of Saddam was involved in any worldwide assassinations, or killing of Israeli civilians through suicide bombings.
No evidence of Saddam's had plans in place to construct a nuclear arsenal.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:38pm
http://www.slate.com/id/2211267/
"It remains the case that a thermonuclear weapon detonated on the Zionist foe would also annihilate the Palestinians and destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. (Even Saddam Hussein at his craziest recognized this fact, promising with uncharacteristic modesty only to "burn up half of Israel" with the weapons of mass destruction that he then boasted of possessing.)"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:39pm
shingo-Just because I do not care about dead people parts does not mean I'm part of a plot,Jewish,lost a debate,or any of this other crazy stuff you two come up with.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:41pm
"No evidence of Saddam's terror attack against an American target in 1998."
Saddam's PLANNED, but prevented, terror attack. Remember, Clinton stopped it and vowed that a military confrontation with Saddam could not be avoided?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:42pm
Not when Israel does it.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person
The same inexplicable denial found in NAZI Germany. A highly educated and intelligent culture known for its contributions to arts, science, literature, medicine, music, philosophy, etc......
We have a long road to travel yet.
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 8:46pm
sted by sjchermak at 09/15/2009 @ 8:33pm
"It seems like any article you see on the internet has a different prediction as to the date they can have a nuclear weapon."
None of which are based ion intelligence or evidence,. but by those itching for a fight with Iran.
"I have a suggestion. Bomb the Iranians now, and then we don't have to worry about "timetables" any more."
I have a suggestion. Why don't you enlist in the milatry and show us how it's done?
"You do know, don't you, that the Brits stand by that story to this very day?"
You do knwo that the CIA looked at this evidence and said it was not credible don't you?
"You seem to have overlooked chemical and biological weapons."
He had none of those either. Did you notice that we didn't find any?
"You do know, don't you, that Saddam was going to re-start his WMD program once he had been let off of the hook"
No evidence of that. In any case, the WMD's he did make were circa WWII and posed no threat to anyone bu thiow own people.
"But they did not let Saddam jerk us around. They stopped Saddam."
Stopepd Saddam from what? Having what he never had?
"The people of New Jersey forced the terrorist animal Gadhafi to back off."
Yeah, big victory that one. sadly, he's best frid with Britain now.
"The message here is standing up to thugs and dictators does work."
It might if we didn't keep supporting them. The message we're sending is that you can be a thug so long as you're OUR thug.
Bombing Iran now would only convince Iran that they need nukes after all.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:46pm
wiki:
"The Iraqi Intelligence Service (Jihaz Al-Mukhabarat Al-A'ma), also known as the Mukhabarat, General Directorate of Intelligence, or Party Intelligence, was the main state intelligence organization in Iraq under Saddam Hussein. The IIS was primarily concerned with international intelligence collection and analysis but also performed many activities inside Iraq.
IIS is alleged to be responsible for a number of assassinations and attempted assassinations abroad. These include the assassinations of Sheikh Talib al-Suhail al-Tamimi in Beirut (April 1994), Ayatollah Mehdi al-Hakim in Sudan (January 1988), and Dr. Ayad Habashi in Rome (October 1986), as well as the nearly successful assassinations of President George H.W. Bush, former Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and the Emir of Kuwait."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:48pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:38pm
You are fixated with paranoia.
You challenged me to produce a source to back up my argument. Having been faced with strong evidence, your response has been to pretend like there no nothign to the story because it happens all the time, meanwhile, Israel's spokespeople are claiming this is a blood libel.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:49pm
"Stopepd Saddam from what? Having what he never had?"
What did he use to kill 100,000-182,000 Iraqi Kurds?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:50pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:48pm
"IIS is alleged to be responsible for a number of assassinations and attempted assassinations abroad. "
Says nothing. Alleged by who?
The assassination plot against President George H.W. Bush, was debunked.
I will grant that there was an assassination attempt against Ayad Allawi, though that was long before he became Iraq's interim leader.
Allawi BTW, did kill on Saddam's behalf before he turned against him.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 8:59pm
What did he use to kill 100,000-182,000 Iraqi Kurds?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:50pm
Whatever it was, he didn't have any of it in 2003, and the Kurds were killed with the stuff we gave him.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:01pm
To the sjchermak's and all others of the idiot base who still believe the BS lies that got us into Iraq and the new ones that will get us into Iran. The Brits realized that those mobile biological weapons trailers were really hydrogen generator trucks for weather ballons. The Iraqis had plenty of yellow cake and it had been stored in steel drums after Hussein scrapped all his weapons programs after the first gulf war. The looters dumped all the yellow cake on the ground and stole the barrels after the second war against Iraq. It was eventually scraped up and shipped to Canada to be processed into nuclear fuel for electrical generation. I could go on and on with the real facts, but too many of the posters are Uber Zionists that will continue to spin and BS any of the truth.
Posted by Aarky at 09/15/2009 @ 9:01pm
Saddam's PLANNED, but prevented, terror attack. Remember, Clinton stopped it and vowed that a military confrontation with Saddam could not be avoided?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 8:42pm
Clinton stopped nothing, because there was nothing to stop.
Clinton lied too.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:03pm
shingo-Just because I do not care about dead people parts does not mean I'm part of a plot,Jewish,lost a debate,or any of this other crazy stuff you two come up with.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:41pm
I'm sure you'd care about dead people parts if they weren't Arab body parts.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:05pm
"http://www.slate.com/id/2211267/
"It remains the case that a thermonuclear weapon detonated on the Zionist foe would also annihilate the Palestinians and destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. (Even Saddam Hussein at his craziest recognized this fact, promising with uncharacteristic modesty only to "burn up half of Israel" with the weapons of mass destruction that he then boasted of possessing.)""
Shingo, have you given up saying Iraq never threatened Israel?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:08pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:08pm
When are you gong to give up quoting Hitchens, who pulls quotes out of his ass without ever providing links or referencing his claims?
Hitchens is a propagandist who has been wrong about everything to do with Iraq.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:21pm
onevote-Your claim that I'm a secret Jewish poser which proves you are paranoid.You have some Jews here doing some bad things and claim that means that all do bad things.You sound like the KKK and how they talk about blacks and Jews.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2009 @ 8:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person
In other words you believe that I am anti-semetic because I expose you for what you are?
Your pretend to be stupid costume has a tear in it.
Don't be a weasel. Come out of your hole.
"golly - why do you and Shingo care about dead body parts"
Hilarious...................
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 9:31pm
Hitchens has been right every step of the way on Iraq.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:31pm
"In other words you believe that I am anti-semetic because I expose you for what you are?"
In other words, you are convinced he secretly is Jewish (even though he isn't) due to a gut feeling and you feel you must "expose" him for "what he is," namely a sub-human non-Ayran inferior.
You are a bigoted racist!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:34pm
Hitchens has been right every step of the way on Iraq.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:31pm
Thank for the laugh.
Among Hitchens best hits was his claim that Saddam had nukes and that Saddam was involve with Al Qaeda and 911.
All have been proven false.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:35pm
Between you and Shingo the self-hating Jew who has said that American involvement in WW2 used inordinate force and was unnessessary, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and is spreading around an updated version of the blood libel myth, lots of Israel-haters are coming out of the closet on this thread as openly hating Jews.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:36pm
"Among Hitchens best hits was his claim that Saddam had nukes and that Saddam was involve with Al Qaeda and 911."
Actually his argument was that we wouldn't attack him if he had nukes.
He did say that Saddam was about to get WMD from North Korea and he predicted that Saddam had plans ready to build a nuclear arsenal when the sanctions were lifted. The David Kay and Duelfer Reports proved him correct.
Hitchens, like Bush, never said Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. He said that Saddam harbored almost every Sunni terrorist group in the Middle East except AQ, who he did meet with and reach out to for a fact that Hitchens himself has rarely put emphasis on.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:42pm
Between you and Shingo the self-hating Jew who has said that American involvement in WW2 used inordinate force and was unnessessary, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and is spreading around an updated version of the blood libel myth, lots of Israel-haters are coming out of the closet on this thread as openly hating Jews.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:36pm
You are a liar and a bottom feeder rightwingnutcase.
I can count at least 4 lies in the one paragraph. That's what we've come to expect from wingnut teabaggers like yourself.
It must be hard to belong to an irrelevant fringe of society.
BTW. You obviously are a big supporter of crimes against human rights and war crimes. The UN report reveals that Israel violated both during their raid on Gaza, but you argue there is no valid reason to criticism Israel.
That can only mean that you support crimes against humanity and violations of international la.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:44pm
"I'm always open to other points of view.
Besides, as I said already: "Cockburn has in recent essays called Gaza a genocide and compared it to Darfur, argued that the US is far more of a rouge nation than North Korea, and said that Obama's "handling" of the "coup" in Honduras "suggests a sinister strategy of counterattack on the leftist trends of the past few years". Maybe criminally insane is too harsh, but he clearly suffers from mental delusion (though he's always entertaining, at least)."
He IS certainly always entertaining."
I have to add that even a nutcase like Cockburn gets it right some of the time, like when he wrote: "Line up some of the more notorious Nobel Peace Prize recipients, such as Kissinger, and if you had to identify the biggest killer of all it was probably Norman Borlaug, one of the architects of the Green Revolution, which unleashed displacement, malnutrition and death across the Third World. If the Kyoto Accords were ever implemented, and they never will be, the net impact on greenhouse gases would be imperceptible, but the devastation to Third World economies and life expectancies would rival that caused by Borlaug's seed strains. "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:46pm
"I can count at least 4 lies in the one paragraph."
Where? Point them out and I'll back them up.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:49pm
I'm not a teabagger, though I am a wingnut.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:50pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:42pm
"Actually his argument was that we wouldn't attack him if he had nukes."
Wrong. Hitchens argued that Iraq had a nuclear program in 2003, based on a book by a nuclear scientist. What Hitch left out, was that the evidence dated back to 1991.
"The David Kay and Duelfer Reports proved him correct."
Rubbish. Neither report claims Iraq were obtaining WMD from NK.
"Hitchens, like Bush, never said Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. "
Both linked Saddam to 911. Bush did repeatedly in speeches.
"He said that Saddam harbored almost every Sunni terrorist group in the Middle East except AQ"
Wrong. Both accused Saddam of harboring Zarqawi and AQ. Bush was quotes as saying the reason he keeps repeating that there was a link between Saddam and AQ is becasue there was a link between Saddam and AQ.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:51pm
"Rubbish. Neither report claims Iraq were obtaining WMD from NK."
Obviously you didn't read the Kay Report.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:53pm
I'm not a teabagger, though I am a wingnut.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:50pm
Same thing.
"Where? Point them out and I'll back them up."
1. That I said that American involvement in WW2 used inordinate force and was unnessessary.
Truth: I never said American involvement in WW2 was unnessessary.
2. Compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust
Truth: Never have I compared them.
3. Spreading around an updated version of the blood libel myth
Truth: They weren't myths. I'm nobody agrees with the evidence I provided.
4. That I'm a self hating Jew
Truth: I don't hate Jews and I don't hate myself eitehr.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 9:55pm
In other words, you are convinced he secretly is Jewish (even though he isn't) due to a gut feeling and you feel you must "expose" him for "what he is," namely a sub-human non-Ayran inferior.
You are a bigoted racist!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:34pm
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......
Posted by OneVote at 09/15/2009 @ 9:59pm
If you are a self-hating Jew is subjective.
Here's an excerpt from the conversation in which Shingo compares the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust:
""Hitler killed more than 100 times as many Jews in a4-5 years. And you're saying that a war in the 21st century could not kill 1 million over 6 years? Posted by Shingo at 09/09/2009 @ 11:57pm He killed 6 million Jews. Your view is that the Iraq war killed more than 1/6 of that many people in a similiar length of time and that almost all of it was completely covered up. By the way, to compare systematically rounding up millions and putting them into gas chambers after systematically starving, beating, raping, torturing, and forcing them to perform slave labor with almost no food or water to a low-tech counter-insurgency run by the volunteer military of a vanguard democracy is facile. It is actually very difficult to kill 6 million people. Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/10/2009 @ 12:15am "By the way, to compare systematically rounding up millions and putting them into gas chambers after systematically starving, beating, raping, torturing, and forcing them to perform slave labor with almost no food or water to a low-tech counter-insurgency run by the volunteer military of a vanguard democracy is facile." I don't think it makes any difference to those who died, whether it was by Saddam or by the US. "It is actually very difficult to kill 6 million people."" If Hitler could do it in the 1940's then the Us can easily do it in 2003-2009. Posted by Shingo at 09/10/2009 @ 12:22am"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:01pm
"Spreading around an updated version of the blood libel myth"
"The epicenter of the world sex slave trade is Israel.
Israel has also been exposed as trafficking in stolen human organs.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 12:08am"
Antisocialist has debunked your lies.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:04pm
"I never said American involvement in WW2 was unnessessary."
"Pearl Harbor caused damager to Pearl harbor. It did not threaten America.
Your losing it LFTO.
Posted by Shingo at 08/26/2009 @ 11:49pm"
"shingo-The attack on Pearl Harbor only caused damage to the harbor?
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/27/2009 @ 12:08am
My point being that it never came close to threatening America's existence.
Posted by Shingo at 08/27/2009 @ 12:15am"
"I was debating the fact that neither 911 nor Peral Harbor were a threat to our existence.
Posted by Shingo at 08/27/2009 @ 12:31am"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:11pm
Looks like Shingo is silent now that I've exposed him as a liar.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:16pm
"Pearl Harbor caused damager to Pearl harbor. It did not threaten America."
Which states that the attack on Pearl Harbor was no a threat to Ameica's existence, but I never denied it was an act of war that deserved a response.
None of these statements even suggest that America's involvement in WWI was unnecessary.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:19pm
Antisocialist has debunked your lies.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:04pm
On the contrary.
Antisocialist didn't even address the fact that the report came from Sweden and no Arab News sources.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:20pm
"Here's an excerpt from the conversation in which Shingo compares the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust"
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:01pm
As the conversation reveals, I never compared the Iraq war to the Holocaust.
You were claiming that it was impossible for 1 million to have died over 6 years. I merely pointed out that 6 times that many were killed in a shorter time frame in WWII, when machines of war were nowhere as lethal as they are today.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:23pm
"The epicenter of the world sex slave trade is Israel.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:04pm
That's because it is.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:24pm
Here's more wisdom from Shingo:
Iran is "essentially" a democracy "Galloway says Iran has been a democracy since 1979" He said it's the Democracy that the Iranian constitution provides for, which is true. It could be argued that the US is not a democracy because strictly speaking, it is a Constitutional republic. Posted by Shingo at 08/10/2009 @ 01:57am"
"Perhaps the number of bodies we've found buried in mass graves migh have been highers than 300,000, but seeing as no forensic analysis was conducted, they cannot be attributed to Saddam, whcih is why he was only ever charged with teh deaths of 145 people. Clearly, none of the NYT's, INDICT's, or HRW's claims were considered credible enough to introduce into a court of law. Posted by Shingo at 08/26/2009 @ 01:16am" "Shingo, the number of CONFIRMED deaths (like over 600,000 CONFIRMED executions under Saddam) for the Iraq war is 92,000-101,000. Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/24/2009 @ 11:05pm Wrong. Saddam was only charged with the deaths of a few hundred. If he'd killed as many as you suggest, he would have been charged with those crimes. He wasn't. On 5 November 2006, Saddam Hussein was sentenced to death by hanging, for the killing of 148 Shiites from Dujail, in retaliation for the assassination attempt of 8 July 1982. End of story. Posted by Shingo at 08/24/2009 @ 11:46pm"
"That's a lie and you will never be able to produce a quote from me that said Saddam was innocent of everything he was not tried for." Posted by Shingo at 09/10/2009 @ 8:55pm
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:25pm
"None of these statements even suggest that America's involvement in WWI was unnecessary."
We aren't taking about WW1.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:26pm
"That's because it is."
Lunacy!
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:26pm
"Which states that the attack on Pearl Harbor was no a threat to Ameica's existence, but I never denied it was an act of war that deserved a response."
Right, but you implied a proper response would have been to do the same to a harbor in Japan and then go home. You implied America's response was inordinate. You also have accused America of genocide against Japan in WW2.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:29pm
" That I said that American involvement in WW2 used inordinate force and was unnessessary."
I was not misrepresenting you.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:30pm
Here's MORE wisdom from Shingo:
""When I wrote this about the findings of mass graves in Iraq: "the number of corpses does indeed suggest a figure of around 300,000 killed in April 1991." You said: "Southern Iraq was the corridor the Coalition used to enter Iraq while they were driving Iraq out of Kuwait. Thousands weer buried alive in their trenches as coalition bulldozers covered them." You argued America killed the Iraqis and planted them there to frame Saddam.
Posted by libertyfortheoppressed at 08/13/2009 @ 12:05am"
"I argued that the Americans killed tens of thousands during Gulf War and buried many Iraqis alive as they bulldozed their trenches. This was not a program to frame Saddam, but the tactic the US military used against Iraqi soldiers that weer dug in. Posted by Shingo at 08/13/2009 @ 12:24am"
You claimed the mass graves were planted by Americans, but not as part of a delibrate plan to frame Saddam.
So, I was not misrepresenting you when I wrote:
"I might add that Shingo has argued Iran is "essentially" a democracy, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and claimed mass graves in Iraq were planted by Americans.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/10/2009 @ 8:19pm "
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:33pm
We aren't taking about WW1.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:26pm
In which case, it was.
"Lunacy!"
You'd know all about that.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:33pm
You claimed the mass graves were planted by Americans, but not as part of a delibrate plan to frame Saddam.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:33pm
I never claimed the mass graves were planted by Americans either.
Are you running out of lies?
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:34pm
I was not misrepresenting you.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:30pm
So you admit that you are simply lying? Good for you.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:35pm
So, I was not misrepresenting you when I wrote:
"I might add that Shingo has argued Iran is "essentially" a democracy, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and claimed mass graves in Iraq were planted by Americans.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:33pm
You were lying yes. I never compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust.
As for Iran being "essentially" a democracy, that was Galloway's statement, not mine.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:37pm
"I was not misrepresenting you.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:30pm
So you admit that you are simply lying? Good for you."
Can you read English?
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:37pm
Right, but you implied a proper response would have been to do the same to a harbor in Japan and then go home. You implied America's response was inordinate. You also have accused America of genocide against Japan in WW2.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:29pm
Where did imply that the proper response would have been to do the same to a harbor in Japan and then go home? Germany declared war on the US so the US had no choice anyway.
Dropping the bombs on Japan was an act of mass murder yes.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:39pm
"You were claiming that it was impossible for 1 million to have died over 6 years."
Straw man. I never said this.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:40pm
Obviously you didn't read the Kay Report.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 9:53pm
Yes I did. Nothing about NK WMD's in it.
BTW. David Kay also lied about Iraq WMD.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 10:42pm
Here's all you need to know about the Lancet:
"The Iraqi mortality estimates published in the Lancet in October 2006 imply, among other things, that:
On average, a thousand Iraqis have been violently killed every single day in the first half of 2006, with less than a tenth of them being noticed by any public surveillance mechanisms; Some 800,000 or more Iraqis suffered blast wounds and other serious conflict-related injuries in the past two years, but less than a tenth of them received any kind of hospital treatment; Over 7% of the entire adult male population of Iraq has already been killed in violence, with no less than 10% in the worst affected areas covering most of central Iraq; Half a million death certificates were received by families which were never officially recorded as having been issued; The Coalition has killed far more Iraqis in the last year than in earlier years containing the initial massive "Shock and Awe" invasion and the major assaults on Falluja. If these assertions are true, they further imply:
incompetence and/or fraud on a truly massive scale by Iraqi officials in hospitals and ministries, on a local, regional and national level, perfectly coordinated from the moment the occupation began
bizarre and self-destructive behaviour on the part of all but a small minority of 800,000 injured, mostly non-combatant, Iraqis;
the utter failure of local or external agencies to notice and respond to a decimation of the adult male population in key urban areas;
an abject failure of the media, Iraqi as well as international, to observe that Coalition-caused events of the scale they reported during the three-week invasion in 2003 have been occurring every month for over a year."
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:43pm
If the Lancet estimate of 650,000 is correct then it follows that either (a) 500,000 documented violent deaths, for which certificates were issued, have somehow managed to completely disappear without a trace to Iraqi officials or the international media or (b) there is a vast, elaborate, and very successful, cover up of this massive number of bodies and their associated paper trail being carried out in Iraq.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:45pm
"Yes I did. Nothing about NK WMD's in it."
Lie.
"BTW. David Kay also lied about Iraq WMD."
As we see, Shingo is well aware that he is lying.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:46pm
Here's all you need to know about the Lancet:
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:43pm
The leading scientist of the British Government verified the Lancet was sound.
That's all anyone needs to know.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:01pm
As we see, Shingo is well aware that he is lying.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:46pm
Fine.
Quote the passage that supports the claim that Iraq were trying to obtain WMD from NK.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:02pm
If the Lancet estimate of 650,000 is correct then it follows that either (a) 500,000 documented violent deaths, for which certificates were issued, have somehow managed to completely disappear without a trace to Iraqi officials or the international media or (b) there is a vast, elaborate, and very successful, cover up of this massive number of bodies and their associated paper trail being carried out in Iraq.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:45pm
Wrong.
The international media have no involvement is tracking the number of deaths in Iraq.
Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that Iraq, an occupied country under siege, would be able to issue certificates for every death.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:05pm
To all of you racist jews who are so proud of your racist paradise called yosrael.the united nation has already concluded that your dumpster of gangsters and racists deliberately targetted the entire palestinian population and thus should be charged with war crimes.this report is published in the independent.co.uk.and of course the center of zionist propaganda CNN and the other whorehouse of lies the fucks news channel will not even mention that.
Certainly nobody expects the right wing fascists to deplore the zionist regime.after all the fascists and the zionist right wingers are like family members and are pursuing the same agenda which is to engage the US in long and costly wars on behalf of the racist dump.
but what about the liberals?whatever happened to the issue of human rights?where is samantha paowers and her liberal interventionists who want to free the women of afganistan from the taliban gangs?are these liberals that are controlled by jewish money blind or deaf?how come they can still here the cries of jews from the days of genocide during the world war 2 and pay no attention to the screams of women and children of gaza that were murdered by the jews?
fucking liberal hypocrites.
Posted by excalibur999 at 09/15/2009 @ 11:06pm
"You were claiming that it was impossible for 1 million to have died over 6 years."
Straw man. I never said this.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/15/2009 @ 10:40pm
You said it was very hard to kill a million people, which might be true, but is clearly possible in the 21st century.
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:07pm
fucking liberal hypocrites.
Posted by excalibur999 at 09/15/2009 @ 11:06pm
Amen to that!
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:10pm
Posted by Shingo at 09/15/2009 @ 11:10pm
Shingo, at what point do you see actual, real anti-Semitism....and when could somebody like excalibur reach it?
Posted by Mask at 09/16/2009 @ 09:14am
Given the depravity that affects human nature, it should come as no surprise that there are so many Hitlerites here supporting the conclusion of Hitler's final solution.
I would suggest to anyone who has been engaging these cretans, that you simply put them on ignore. They will go off to find another website where they can promote their hatred of the Jews and their desire to see Hitler's final solution completed.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 09:34am
Posted by Mask at 09/16/2009 @ 09:14am | ignore this person | warn this person
Are you and Larry birds of a feather?
Explain how your closet Zionism differs from Larry's Evangelical Zionism.
Posted by OneVote at 09/16/2009 @ 10:04am
Shingo and OneVote
I'm curious why each of you are so vitriolic in your criticism of Israel, especially since you are each apparently jewish. I know it's none of my business, but will you be making an appearance in a shul either this weekend or next Monday. Do you have a sedar. Please feel free to flip me the bird for asking a personal question.
Posted by gren at 09/16/2009 @ 11:12am
Posted by gren at 09/16/2009 @ 11:12am | ignore this person | warn this person
Zionist extremism fuels anti-semitism. Not only do I find Israel's actions repulsive from the standpoint of exploitation and oppression of non-Jews, I find them repulsive from the standpoint of harm to Jews in general.
Did Hitler differentiate? Or, did he pretty much conclude that all Jews were the same, even those Jews who were anti-Bolshevik and hated communism. There were Jews that resented Treaty of Versailles and its economic impact on Germany - did they get a special star?
You know this. You need to get on the "right" side of this issue. I see you leaning back and forth.
Posted by OneVote at 09/16/2009 @ 11:36am
You know this. You need to get on the "right" side of this issue. I see you leaning back and forth.
Posted by OneVote at 09/16/2009 @ 11:36am | ignore this person | warn this person
I think that where you and i disagree / diverge is that from my perspective the I/P conflict is not so black and white that Israel deserves all the blame and the Palestinians are innocent victims. Israel had a 20 year hsitory of fighting for survival against enemies which were devoted to its destruction, and then subjected to terrorism by PLO militants. Israel made a mistake being seduced by the vision of a Greater Israel and allowing settlements throughout the West Bank, and taking way too long to recognize the national aspirations of the Palestinians as legitimate, but I do not believe that Israel is any more prejudiced or "colonialistic" than any other country -- including how the Palestinian state will be. Human nature is pretty similar throughout the world -- both for better and worse.
That said, the Likud resistance to the compromises necessary for peace is indefensible. Yet the Palestinians have brought Netanyahu upon themselves by refusing to make peace, or even make good faith counteroffers, with Barak in 2000 and Olmert last year.
There is an article today in the JPost the Bellieni (spelling ?) is undertaking a new campaign in Israel and with the PA to promote the Geneva Initiative as the basis for a peace treaty. I hope the US and the EU get behind it and pressure both Israel and the PA to negotiate on the basis of that proposal.
Posted by gren at 09/16/2009 @ 12:15pm
There is an article today in the JPost the Bellieni (spelling ?) is undertaking a new campaign in Israel and with the PA to promote the Geneva Initiative as the basis for a peace treaty. I hope the US and the EU get behind it and pressure both Israel and the PA to negotiate on the basis of that proposal.
Posted by gren at 09/16/2009 @ 12:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I do as well.
Gren, perception is generally more important than reality.
The "right" side of the issue is in quotes for a reason.
Posted by OneVote at 09/16/2009 @ 3:30pm
"Shingo, at what point do you see actual, real anti-Semitism....and when could somebody like excalibur reach it?"
I really think Shingo is a self-hating Jew. He has said that all Israelis are barbaric and should be hated worldwide, compared the Iraq war to the Nazi Holocaust, and is spreading around an updated blood libel myth. Now, he's said "Amen!" to a post describing all Jews as racist and arguing that liberals who don't condemn "all of you racist jews who are so proud of your racist paradise called yosrael" are in the pay of Jewish money. Shingo also believes that Jews run the media in America and throughout the world and that Iran is a democracy.
I'm of course only half-serious when I call him a self-hating Jew, but he obviously is sympathetic to and soft on anti-semitism and global jihad.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/16/2009 @ 3:46pm
"Quote the passage that supports the claim that Iraq were trying to obtain WMD from NK."
"Documents found by ISG describe a high-level dialogue between Iraq and North Korea that began in December 1999 and included an October 2000 meeting in Baghdad. These documents indicate Iraqi interest in the transfer of technology for surface-to-surface missiles with a range of 1,300 kilometers (probably No Dong) and land-to-sea missiles with a range of 300 kilometers. The document quotes the North Koreans as understanding the limitations imposed by the U.N., but being prepared "to cooperate with Iraq on the items it specified."
At the time of OIF, these discussions had not led to any missiles being transferred to Iraq. A high-level cooperating source has reported that in late 2002 at Saddam's behest a delegation of Iraqi officials was sent to meet with foreign export companies, including one that dealt with missiles. Iraq was interested in buying an advanced ballistic missile with 270-kilometer and 500-kilometer ranges."
It has also been reported that Kim met with Saddam in Syria again in the spring of 2003 in a secret meeting, and that Saddam had paid for the missiles and was promised them, but Kim got cold feet due to US hawkishness.
Posted by rightwingnutcase at 09/16/2009 @ 4:02pm