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RedditThe real crisis in central and south Asia -- the one in Pakistan -- is going from really bad to much, much worse.
Let's review some of the more recent reports from Pakistan.
Earlier this month, in a terrifying analysis of the situation in Pakistan, the New York Times reported:
Some analysts here and in Washington are already putting forward apocalyptic timetables for the country. "We are running out of time to help Pakistan change its present course toward increasing economic and political instability, and even ultimate failure," said a recent report by a task force of the Atlantic Council that was led by former Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts. The report, released in February, gave the Pakistani government 6 to 12 months before things went from bad to dangerous.A specialist in guerrilla warfare, David Kilcullen, who advised Gen. David H. Petraeus when General Petraeus was the American commander in Iraq, offered a more dire assessment. Pakistan could be facing internal collapse within six months, he said.
An even more frightening and graphic description of the spreading Islamist movement there was provided last week by the Wall Street Journal:
Thousands of Islamist militants are pouring into Pakistan's Swat Valley and setting up training camps here, quickly making it one of the main bases for Taliban fighters and raising their threat to the government in the wake of a controversial peace deal.The number of militants in the valley swelled in the months before the deal with the Taliban was struck, and they continue to move in, say Pakistani and U.S. officials. They now estimate there are between 6,000 and 8,000 fighters in Swat, nearly double the number at the end of last year.
The Taliban fighters are spreading from the ungoverned tribal areas (the seven agencies of FATA) to the settled areas, starting with the Swat Valley, a key part of the Northwest Frontier Province of Pakistan proper. And from there, they are spreading into neighboring districts, even as they carry out terrorist attacks in key cities, such as Lahore and Islamabad. They are butchering people, beheading police officers, and terrorizing the citizens, who have no way to fight back. The Journal notes that in Swat, one central plaza "has become known among residents as 'Slaughter Square' because the Taliban have begun using it to dump bodies after executions."
Adds the Journal:
Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan. They have taken control of the local government and the police, who have been ordered to shed their uniforms in favor of the traditional Shalwar Kameez, an outfit comprising a long shirt and loose trousers. They also have seized Swat's emerald mines, which extract millions of dollars a year in gemstones.At barbershops, notices warn men not to shave their beards. Women are no longer allowed to leave their homes without their husbands or male blood relatives. Girls' schools have been reopened after initially being closed but the students must be covered from head to toe, and Taliban officials routinely inspect classrooms for violators.
In an April 14 piece entitled "United Militants Threaten Pakistan's Populous Heart," the Times describes the spreading Taliban cancer in Pakistan thus:
Taliban insurgents are teaming up with local militant groups to make inroads in Punjab, the province that is home to more than half of Pakistanis, reinvigorating an alliance that Pakistani and American authorities say poses a serious risk to the stability of the country. ...Telltale signs of creeping militancy abound in a belt of towns and villages near here that a reporter visited last week. Militants have gained strength considerably in the district of Dera Ghazi Khan, which is a gateway both to Taliban-controlled areas and the heart of Punjab, the police and local residents say. Many were terrified.
Some villages, just north of here, are so deeply infiltrated by militants that they are already considered no-go zones by their neighbors.
In at least five towns in southern and western Punjab, including the midsize hub of Multan, barber shops, music stores and Internet cafes offensive to the militants' strict interpretation of Islam have received threats. Traditional ceremonies that include drumming and dancing have been halted in some areas. Hard-line ideologues have addressed large crowds to push their idea of Islamic revolution. Sectarian attacks, dormant here since the 1990s, have erupted once again.
Yesterday, the Washington Post carried a brilliant piece by Pamela Constable that reported on the results so far of Pakistan's deal to cede power in Swat to the Taliban and its allies:
A potentially troubling era dawned Sunday in Pakistan's Swat Valley, where a top Islamist militant leader, emboldened by a peace agreement with the federal government, laid out an ambitious plan to bring a "complete Islamic system" to the surrounding northwest region and the entire country.Speaking to thousands of followers in an address aired live from Swat on national news channels, cleric Sufi Mohammed bluntly defied the constitution and federal judiciary, saying he would not allow any appeals to state courts under the system of sharia, or Islamic law, that will prevail there as a result of the peace accord signed by the president Tuesday.
The Post also reported the release of Maulana Abdel Aziz, the fiery, pro-Taliban leader of the Red Mosque in Islamabad that was invaded and shut down last year. He's back home, and preaching to thousands of fanatics. The Post added:
Together, these rallying cries seemed to create an arc of radical religious energy between the turbulent, Taliban-plagued northwest region and the increasingly vulnerable federal capital, less than 100 miles to the east. They also appeared to pose a direct, unprecedented religious challenge to modern state authority in the Muslim nation of 176 million.
So President Obama is beefing up US forces next door in Afghanistan. By doing so, he's pushing some Taliban militants back across the border into Pakistan. (Unlike Afghanistan, which has no strategic value to anyone except some pipeline builders, Pakistan is a vastly important nation with nuclear weapons.) By catapulting drone attacks on FATA villages, he's pushing militants further east into Pakistan proper, and the US escalation has so far had the effect of uniting the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistan Taliban, and various pro-Taliban militias into a unified fighting force. We're also providing recruiting posters for Pakistani fundamentalists.
A year ago, I would have said that the idea that Muslim fundamentalists could seize control of Pakistan, a relatively modern and urbane country, was laughable. No more. I'm not sure that I agree with Kilcullen that Pakistan could collapse in six months, but it's not impossible.
Make no mistake, though: this is the most dangerous problem in the world.
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And a number of leftists will post to this thread telling us that the solution is for the US to get out of the region.
Yeah, the best way for a doctor to treat cancer is to simply allow it to run it's course.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/21/2009 @ 09:27am
ah, the religion of peace...
or "rest in peace".
oops. did i "insult religion", as some muslim countries defined racism at the recent south african conference on "racism"? hmmm...to speak unflatteringly of another's religon is "racism" yet threatening death to those who offend by their objectionable free speech is not "racism"...
that doesnt make much sense but making sense and fundamentalist islam don't exactly go together like peas and carrots, do they?
my oh my oh my...BUT for the stupid bloody black hole of baghdad, what might we have accomplished in this area? but then why ask why?
well here we are, who knows how close to atomic weaponry in the hands of autoexploding medievalist bigots. nice, as mr. borat would say...
Posted by dexter666 at 04/21/2009 @ 10:34am
DREYFUSS: Make no mistake, though: this is the most dangerous problem in the world.
Uh, no!
To me, the far more dangerous is the days-old ruling by our EPA that normal, gaseous products of our very existence, are "dangerous"!
Plus, got a load of today's screamer by "Scientists": "Fatties cause Global Warming!"
The nukes of Pakistan, in the wrong hands, could do some harm in a few places.....but, Fatties are everywhere, along with the gaseous wastes of We, The People!
Posted by Happy at 04/21/2009 @ 10:46am
PS: My previous post was a double-shot of sarcasm!
Posted by Happy at 04/21/2009 @ 10:48am
I doubt that the U.S. government can or would do anything worthwhile in this situation. What I would rather see is the Pakistani people, led by its working class, take on the Taliban, et al, gun to gun, man AND woman to man. Sometimes, a civil war cannot be avoided, nor should it be. Of course, I can guarentee that if the working class did rise up to fight the radial Islamists, the U.S. government would support the latter.
Maybe its time to bring back the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.
Posted by cka2nd at 04/21/2009 @ 10:53am
'and the US escalation has so far had the effect of uniting the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistan Taliban, and various pro-Taliban militias into a unified fighting force. We're also providing recruiting posters for Pakistani fundamentalists.'
This is how a pack of wolves takes down a 2,000 pound bison.
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 11:13am
This is the game the true ruling classes play in every corner of the world. Keep the masses at each others' throats fighting over the leftovers, while they take the remainder (which is everything).
They add gasoline to the fire whenever things appear to simmer down too. Same thing in this country, just not to the extremes as in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc.
Most of the wealthiest people are also the most morally bankrupt folks walking the face of the earth. Death, destruction and starvation are their play things and favorite tools to keep the rest of the population in check. We don't need a God, we already have the wrath of the well to do to drive us into the dirt from where we came.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 04/21/2009 @ 11:18am
Posted by Happy at 04/21/2009 @ 10:46am
HAPP got his barking orders from Drudge, I see.
Posted by Mask at 04/21/2009 @ 11:20am
The US is the cancer. The ultimate goal of the US is to dismantle Pakistan enabling India to become the new hedgemon in the region. India with its BJP fundamentalists will then wreak mayhem. A part of the planning involves strengthening the Taliban. The way the US is going about making Pakistan a failed state (make no mistake that is the ultimate intent) is to keep firing drones which bring more recruits. So, yes, US needs to get out and let the Pakistani government take care of this problem. As long as the US is there Pak gov's hands are tied. Also, the current guy in power in Pakistan was put there by US. He is not popular. Right now, Chief Justice Iftekhar should be president.
Posted by saba at 04/21/2009 @ 12:02pm
The ultimate goal of the US is to dismantle Pakistan enabling India to become the new hedgemon in the region.
Posted by saba at 04/21/2009 @ 12:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Check this seminar out. Israel's trading partner India is buying lots of arms and military hardware from Israel. We give to Israel and Israel sells to India. Bush's nuke deal and strategic agreement with India also spells trouble for Pakistan - who resented it big time. Folks in Pakistan understand the big picture.
'Israel Today - Promising Partnership: Israel's Deepening Ties to India
New Delhi has emerged as a leading trading partner for Israel, and the two nations have embarked on a new era of military and intelligence cooperation. What does the future hold for Israel's relationship with one of the world's largest and most important democracies? This session is also offered on Monday from 4:00 - 5:15 p.m.
Featuring Mr. David Adams* Staff Director, Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Middle East and Southeast Asia Ambassador Arun Singh Deputy Chief of Mission, U.S. Embassy of India Mr. Jeffrey Colman Deputy Director, Policy and Government Affairs, AIPAC'
AIPAC 2009 Policy Conference
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 12:20pm
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 12:20pm
For later notice, is there anything Israel ISN'T behind on the international scene, OV?
Posted by Mask at 04/21/2009 @ 12:22pm
For later notice, is there anything Israel ISN'T behind on the international scene, OV?
Posted by Mask at 04/21/2009 @ 12:22pm | ignore this person | warn this person
World Peace?
Ask the common folk in Mumbai, not those in the invory office towers and condos along the waterfront.
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 12:37pm
Ask the common folk in Mumbai, not those in the invory office towers and condos along the waterfront.
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 12:37pm
Of course; how did we get it wrong? It was the Jews who carried out Mumbai, not Pakistani Jihadists.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/21/2009 @ 1:00pm
Of course; how did we get it wrong? It was the Jews who carried out Mumbai, not Pakistani Jihadists.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/21/2009 @ 1:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person
So why do you suppose Israeli's were targeted by Pakistani Jihadist? Sympathy for Palestinians? Nope. Israel's "partnership" with India, and how that is subverting the balance of power between Pakistan and India is the answer. Money laundering Mumbai is also a great place for Israeli arms dealers and mafia to park their money away from the prying eyes of informants and journalists in NY, London, & Tel Aviv.
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 1:25pm
It's not likely that U.S. forces would become directly involved in Pakistan without the permission of the government and the Pakistan Army. The civilian government seems a little bit shaky, and another general may end up running the country. We will have to wait until the dust has settled to get a clear picture!
Posted by pjcasey at 04/21/2009 @ 3:22pm
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 1:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
so...the jihadist murderers who attacked mumbai...attacked the jews, not because of the general hostility against jews and israelis in particular withing the community of jihadist islamists worldwide?
they don't just sort of latch on to the israel palestine humiliation and use it to fuel their anger at any who oppose them, thereby justifying the acts of horrendous violence they perpetrate?
not that jewish israel and hindu india don't have damned good reason to buddy up...they have some 200 million + scary, violence prone, fanatic followers of a religion that preaches violent conquest against all others...
hell...the BETTER get together. they'd be stupid not to. and they arent stupid...
Posted by dexter666 at 04/21/2009 @ 3:32pm
Posted by saba at 04/21/2009 @ 12:02pm
Sorry Saba, but Pakistan was already starting to show signs of failure. First Musharraf and now this guy. Bhutto's widower was not somebody who the US wanted to see in power.
Just like US citizens are responsible for the Presidents we elect, so must your people take responsibilty for electing your own leaders.
Posted by ACook at 04/21/2009 @ 3:32pm
hey have some 200 million + scary, violence prone, fanatic followers of a religion that preaches violent conquest against all others...in between them.
Posted by dexter666 at 04/21/2009 @ 3:34pm
Plus, got a load of today's screamer by "Scientists": "Fatties cause Global Warming!"
Posted by Happy at 04/21/2009 @ 10:46am
I thought that they 'Contribute to global warming', not that they cause it. The amount of fuel that could be saved, according to the article, is pretty impressive.
Industrialization and carbon emissions combined with a global warming trend are the causes; humans are exacerbating the problem by their actions, thusly speeding up the process.
Everyone knows that, but it's difficult to accept. Could it be that you're just looking for a way to put off that diet? ; )
Posted by ficheye at 04/21/2009 @ 4:36pm
hey have some 200 million + scary, violence prone, fanatic followers of a religion that preaches violent conquest against all others...in between them.
Posted by dexter666 at 04/21/2009 @ 3:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person
A match made in heaven. Note Israel sucking up to a nuclear nation as well. Very nice. I'll bet Israel would warm up to Iran real quickly too if Iran had the bomb. They are already selling Iran arms via China, and had a history of directly selling them to Iran.
Posted by OneVote at 04/21/2009 @ 4:59pm
Now we get to the true legacy of the neo-con eight year rule.
This is Bush's legacy...
Posted by V at 04/21/2009 @ 5:46pm
A cautionary tale for the willingly handled.
Posted by V at 04/21/2009 @ 5:48pm
Industrialization and carbon emissions combined with a global warming trend are the causes; humans are exacerbating the problem by their actions, thusly speeding up the process. Everyone knows that, but it's difficult to accept. Could it be that you're just looking for a way to put off that diet? ; ) Posted by ficheye
You have been conned into thinking that way. The GE-NBC-Obama conglomerate are brainwashing you. Now go watch Heroes.
Posted by abell12ct at 04/21/2009 @ 6:20pm
Now go watch Heroes. Posted by abell12ct at 04/21/2009 @ 6:20pm
Never have.
That was a pretty mild support message, on my part, for global climate change. There are almost daily revelations about the subject which are supported by scientists all over the world.
And your statement about brainwashing just reveals your discomfiture at having to even think about the problem.
You have been conned into thinking that way by the conservative post- Bush 'what me worry ' conglomerate that worships Anne coulter and shrieks loudly in the night. Now go watch 'The Unit'.
Posted by ficheye at 04/21/2009 @ 8:33pm
"and the US escalation has so far had the effect of uniting the Afghan Taliban, the Pakistan Taliban, and various pro-Taliban militias into a unified fighting force."
Short-term memory is as dangerous on a blogger's page as it is for policy makers. Our start and stop, short-term goal policies at the expense of long-term world peace has created this most dangerous place in the world. Reagan turned a blind eye, and perjured himself in front of Congress, in allowing Pakistan to become a nuclear state in order to wage his proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan from Pakistan territory. He gave billions to the Pakistan military which funneled to the Nuclear program. He openly formed Al Qaeda and partnered with them, as a show of uniting Islamic fighters against the unholy Soviets. When the Reds went home, Reagan, followed by Bush, and carried on by Clinton, left the region and went home too--left a devastated ruin, with the NWFP having three and a half million (of the five million) Afghan refugees. The U.S. gave no aid, and paid no attention to the civil war among the tribal warlords that continued the devastation, then came the Taliban. And let's not forget the poppy agricultural boom that we brought to the region to help fund our war(transplanted from Laos, Cambodia, and Myrammar that helped support our war in that region.
So who are the Taliban? And where did they come from? They are those young male children, many who were orphans,left to survive without proper food, water, shelter, and least of all, education. The Islamic Madrassas increased from 2,500 to 35,000 during the 1990s,and filled these 'student's minds with their ideas. A long-term commitment of development is the only way out.
Posted by wise42j at 04/21/2009 @ 9:21pm
The GE-NBC-Obama conglomerate are brainwashing you
Posted by abell12ct at 04/21/2009 @ 6:20pm
Hmmmm, let's see who else is in the club:
Lynn Cheney was on Board of NBC's war profiteering division (Lockheed).
Lynne Cheney served on Lockheed Corporation's board of directors from 1994 to 2001, a $120,000-a-year post she gave up shortly before her husband's inauguration;
Larry's hero: DICK Cheney served on the board's Finance, and Nominating and Corporate Governance committees.
USA Today: Lynne Cheney earned more than $300000 last year in retainers and stock compensation as a director at defense contractor Lockheed-Martin
GW Bush donations... Lockheed Martin $1.5m
Posted by winyahn at 04/21/2009 @ 10:16pm
And a number of leftists will post to this thread telling us that the solution is for the US to get out of the region.
Yeah, the best way for a doctor to treat cancer is to simply allow it to run it's course.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/21/2009 @ 09:27am
People can change, cancer cannot. If yo find the heart of a problem you can solve it without fighting. The biggest reason people in the Middle East hate us is because we exert our will over them. I'm an indifferent to this fact. However maybe an intelligent person would stop and think, maybe if we stopped exerting our will over THEM, they would leave us alone too.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/22/2009 @ 12:58am
Only a fanatic thinks that that many people hate us because we are free.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/22/2009 @ 12:58am
All of this is, of course, a direct result of past US policies devised by foreign policy intellectuals who know little or nothing, other than what they've read from others of their ilk, about the people and countries of their purported expertise. The more we meddle, the worse a mess we make of things.
We kindled the fire of religious extremism, which spread out of our control. We let salafis from Afghanistan escape into Pakistan. We're slaughtering innocent villagers with bombing and drone attacks, further radicalizing the population.
And yet Obama, for all of his apparent intelligence, is a slow learner. He's listening to the same kinds of experts giving the same kinds of counterproductive advice that got us here to begin with.
If we got the troops out and used mutually acceptable, transparent NGOs to deliver humanitarian and development assistance we'd be a lot better off, and so would the Afghans and Pakistanis.
Posted by DrBrian at 04/22/2009 @ 01:52am
Leave them people alone!
They are of no danger to us...
damn
Posted by bleedingheart at 04/22/2009 @ 04:18am
It was US cold war policy which helped to create the Taliban monster. It was US foreign policy of neglect in Afghanistan once the Soviets pulled out which helped the Taliban monster grow.
Sorry, but sometimes the only rational way to deal with religious fundamentalists is to give them what they want: martyrdom.
Of course once enough martyrs are moldering in the cold, cold ground then we, the United States and NATO, must mount massive aid programs aimed at addressing the issues which fostered the rise of destructive religious fundamentalism in the first place.
Ironically, we in the U.S. have much to do in the way of redressing the imagined grievances of our own homegrown destructive religious fundamentalists.
Posted by ETSpoon at 04/22/2009 @ 08:55am
Posted by wise42j at 04/21/2009 @ 9:21pm
Another leftist brainwashed by propaganda instead of history and fact.
The US had nothing to do with the formation of Al Qaeda. they received their funding elsewhere. They have stated so themselves and this myth has been thoroughly debunked. It remains the reality only for far left radicals who never are interested in facts.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/22/2009 @ 10:31am
8000 taliband militia in the Swat valley? Pakistan has 650,000 in their armed forces, I think we might address this problem without sending more soldiers.
The military part of what needs to be done can be done by the democratically elected government of the country. The political part of what needs to de done cannot be done with american military involvement in the region.
Posted by redleb at 04/22/2009 @ 11:33am
There's no question that, historically, the United States bears a great deal of responsibility for the rise of the Islamist movement in Afghanistan and Pakistan, going back mandy decades. I've written a whole book about this: "Devil's Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam."
As for Al Qaeda: The US didn't create AQ. But we did create the conditions under which it was created. We did so explicitly, and we supported -- along with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and others -- the transfer of Arab jihadist volunteers to the war in the 1980s. These were the people who created, staffed, and became bin Laden's foot soldiers.
The United States also knew, full well, that Pakistan was funneling the bulk of US aid to extremists in Afghanistan, including Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who is now a key ally of the Taliban and AQ.
Posted by RobertDreyfuss at 04/22/2009 @ 11:34am
Yup, another spot on analysis rev clusterbomb- every red blooded christian american knows that it is just absurd leftist propaganda penned by lucifer with noam chomsky ghostwriting! I mean our saintly country would never intervene in the internal affairs of another- pure blasphemy! Just ignore the fact that the CIA trained and funded the mujahideen in their fight against the soviets. Never mind that the plan was to make Afghanistan into their vietnam. Ignore the fact that many of AQ's terrorists learned how to wage war against a more powerful enemy in this war... facts are just leftist propaganda after all. Everyone knows an invisible bearded man who lives in the sky and grants wishes and will make you live forever if you kiss his insecure arse is the only real truth.
Posted by entropy at 04/22/2009 @ 11:37am
Another Vietnam in the works. Scare people to death and they do stoopid things like fight back.
The russians were in Afganistan for 10 years and lost. Did the Afganis go into russia in retaliation....hell no.
We withdrew from vietnam and did the cong come to america? ...hell no.
See a pattern there? They don't want us in their part of the world...they want to be left alone ( as we, america, wants to be left alone)
The Taliban want to set up the same type government and rules that are already in effect in Saudi. Do we complain about Saudi culture? Hell no!
We need to get out now before turns into another Iraq style civil war...no winners there....a million dead and 4 million refugees.
GET OUT NOW!!!!
Posted by notsleepy at 04/22/2009 @ 11:38am
"The US had nothing to do with the formation of Al Qaeda. they received their funding elsewhere. They have stated so themselves" The Rev. Clusterbomb
Wow, what an epiphany! Up until this moment I never viewed AQ as a trustworthy, reliable source of information. In fact, they ranked somewhere between Dianetics and the Bible in the catacomb of my believability scale. Sure glad you cleared that up for me- In Al Qaeda We Trust! Super.
Posted by entropy at 04/22/2009 @ 11:47am
No one can win there. Withdrawal is paramount. But I suspect they won't learn. I hope the right-wing conservatives are willing to take responsibility when it fails. But I suspect that they won't. Instead, they will blame someone else.
Posted by parrotuya at 04/22/2009 @ 12:09pm
"If we got the troops out and used mutually acceptable, transparent NGOs to deliver humanitarian and development assistance we'd be a lot better off, and so would the Afghans and Pakistanis."
Posted by DrBrian at 04/22/2009 @ 01:52am
Say, how are those NGO's working for Darfur and Myanmar anyway?
Posted by ACook at 04/22/2009 @ 12:23pm
GET OUT NOW!!!!
Posted by notsleepy at 04/22/2009 @ 11:38am
Ditto. Good post.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 04/22/2009 @ 2:50pm
and the greed never ends....
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/22/2009 @ 5:56pm
Another leftist brainwashed by propaganda instead of history and fact.
The US had nothing to do with the formation of Al Qaeda. they received their funding elsewhere. They have stated so themselves and this myth has been thoroughly debunked. It remains the reality only for far left radicals who never are interested in facts.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/22/2009 @ 10:31am
So you're saying we didn't help them to fight the Russians?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/22/2009 @ 6:34pm
"The origins of the group can be traced to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The United States viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahedeen on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. The U.S. channelled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the native Afghan mujahedeen fighting the Soviet occupation in a CIA program called Operation Cyclone.[41][42]"
Weird LVL, because this disagrees with you. I guess your grasp of history is a little shakey.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a86operationcyclone
So does that. Maybe you should go check your history books again.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/22/2009 @ 6:37pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
Looks like it became a centerpiece for Reagan to fund the Mujahideen
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/22/2009 @ 10:01pm
and the real CANCER is americans there because diagnosis says the symptoms were bot present before the americans went there
Posted by khalidmunir96 at 04/23/2009 @ 05:18am
Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan. They have taken control of the local government and the police, who have been ordered to shed their uniforms in favor of the traditional Shalwar Kameez, an outfit comprising a long shirt and loose trousers. They also have seized Swat's emerald mines, which extract millions of dollars a year in gemstones.
SO NO problem when Americans take control of Afghanistan and Iraq, took control of local govts. and police and had ordered their uniforms to the whole countries and have seized Afhganistan's gem mines. WOW, American do good whatever they do even kill and maim hundreds of thousands. Americans politically forced countries to change their education curriculum, but the problem is only when you want your education to be given to your kids. Do not write this bullshits while sitting 1000's miles away from the actual land.
Posted by khalidmunir96 at 04/23/2009 @ 05:24am
And a number of leftists will post to this thread telling us that the solution is for the US to get out of the region. Yeah, the best way for a doctor to treat cancer is to simply allow it to run it's course.
Total bull shit. i think to solve this problem, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq should send their armies to America to kill and maim as many they could. Nevertheless that is the what americans are doing to save americaaaaaans, asians should learn from americaaaaaaans.
Posted by khalidmunir96 at 04/23/2009 @ 05:28am
As long as the Americans and their western allies keep on supporting the "FEUDAL" elite of Pakistan such as the Bhutto family and their feudal dynastic political party the PPP and their feudal cohorts,this will only add more fodder to the Taliban propoganda.If Pakistan were to iniate land reforms and withdraw support of these FEUDAL LORDS,the situation will take a turn for the better.This Taliban campaign is not of a religious nature,but this is a social rebellion against the injustice and inequitable land ownership that has haunted Pakistan since its birth and was further worsened when the FEUDAL LORD Z.A.BHUTTO made a fool out of the Pakistani nation when he sacrifised the secular and non-feudal East Pakistan to keep the FEUDAL status quo in Pakistan in the early seventies. There is still time for the world powers to demand immediate land reforms and make sure that the aid offered to the Pakistani government has definite transparency and accountability attached as a prerequisite. They must make sure that the aid is used for opening up schools,vocational training centers,hospitals and other social services for the poor oppressed masses of Pakistan and not for buying TOYOTA LAND CRUISERS AND FANCY CARS FOR THE ELITE AND USELESS GOVERNMENT OFFICERS.This show of oppulence by the governing elite has been the main cause of the popularity of the Taliban.
Posted by PAKIBOY100 at 04/23/2009 @ 06:35am
"Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan", how true.
Frontline has a very telling and sad interview with two 9 year old girls from the region. When the correspondent Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy asked one of girls about school, which was destroyed by the Taliban this was her answer, breaks my heart.
"Because education is like a ray of light and I want that light," she replied.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/pakistan802/
The other thing that is not being mentioned is India. Do people really think that if the Taliban take control of Pakistan that India will just wait and see what will happen. I don't think so, I think India's reaction will be swift and preemptive.
Posted by jeffe at 04/23/2009 @ 07:36am
I'm not quite sure why Dreyfuss thinks he's theonly one who knows what's going onover there. Exclusion of his view does not necessarily imply everyone else's ignorance.
Perhaps it's a self-esteem thing with him.
Posted by william.harry13 at 04/23/2009 @ 1:31pm