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RedditDoes Dennis Ross believe that Iran is a "demonic" nation? Apparently so, at least according to the latest report from the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute.
Readers of The Nation may already have seen my thumbnail profile of Dennis Ross, Hillary Clinton's special envoy for "the Gulf and Southwest Asia," i.e., Iran. A smooth talking but hawkish diplomat who spent most of the past decade at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a pro-Israel thinktank in Washington, Ross is at best a controversial choice for an administration dedicated to opening a dialogue with Iran. Among other things, during his trenure at WINEP, Ross expressed skepticism about the value of talks with Iran.
Here's an addendum to that profile: until his recent appointment, Ross served as chairman of the board for the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute (JPPPI), an Israel-based organization that, according to its web site, "makes an annual presentation to the Israeli Cabinet as a whole on main developments in the Jewish world, offering its assessments and policy recommendations."
The organization adds:
JPPPI's work serves as the basis for assessments, alerts and strategic policy designs provided to Jewish decision makers, and to opinion leaders and publics at large.
In the latest of those annual presentations, the JPPPI refers to "the international threat posed by nuclear weapons capacity in Iran (and other demonic societies)." Yes, you read that right: demonic.
The JPPPI report adds that Israel has been abandoned to face the threat from Iran alone:
The past year has aggravated the Israeli dilemma of how to act vis-à-vis Tehran, and there is a mounting sense that the international community would rather leave Israel to deal with the problem on its own.
The report goes on to express a concern that an effort by the Obama administation to reach what the JPPPI calls a "regional deal" with Iran might be part and parcel of a "relatively aggressive effort to resolve the Israeli-Arab conflict, and perhaps even to bring about the nuclear disarmament of the Middle East."
As Patrick Lang, a former Defense Intelligence Agency official, reports on his blog, the JPPPI was founded by the Jewish Agency in 2002. The Jewish Agency, formerly known as the Jewish Agency for Palestine, was the provisional government of Israel at its inception, and it receives official support from the government of Israel today. According to its official website, the Jewish Agency was the "de facto government of the state-on-its-way" in the period before Israel's founding in 1948, and in 2008 it had a budget of $314 million.
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Robert Dreyfuss
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My explanation for Dennis Ross's use of the word "demonic" is that hyperbole is often used as a cover for ignorance.
Perhaps our best hope is that Dennis Ross is capable from learning from his diplomatic contacts and from more knowledgeable people around him. Or that his bosses are capable of firing him if he fails to support President Obama's pro-dialogue policy.
Posted by JakobFabian at 04/13/2009 @ 03:54am
My explanation for Dennis Ross's use of the word "demonic" is that hyperbole is often used as a cover for ignorance. Posted by JakobFabian at 04/13/2009 @ 03:54am
I'm gonna go with crazy. Plain old wacko.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/13/2009 @ 04:41am
It is simply amazing that the Jewish Agency is surfacing again in the United States. Back when it had an "American Section" it funneled the equivalent of $35 million through the American Zionist Council to kickstart Israel lobbying in America. Isaiah Kenen, the founder of AIPAC, received at least $38,000 to start the "Near East Report" and fund his lobbying actitivites. The payment vouchers, authorized in Jerusalem, were all included in the Senate record in 1963 when Fulbright investigated them:
http://irmep.org/ILA/Senate/default.asp
Robert F. Kennedy shut down this money laundering ring by ordering the major conduit (AIPAC's parent org) to register as a foreign agent.
http://www.irmep.org/ILA/AZCDOJ/default.asp
So here we are, a half century later. Ross takes it offshore, but expects to run Mideast policy @ State as well. We truly are condemned to repeat history when we ignore it.
Posted by Israel_Lobby_Archive at 04/13/2009 @ 06:41am
the JPPPI refers to "the international threat posed by nuclear weapons capacity in Iran (and other demonic societies)." Yes, you read that right: demonic.
So, when was the last time Israeli leaders advocated "wiping Islamist from the face of the earth" and totally destroying that "national identity" of people? All pro-arabic people arguement don't hold any water when you consider the avowed goals of Islamic countries toward the jewish people!
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 06:49am
One more fact. Rabbi Elmer Berger and a law professor forced the DOJ Foreign Agents Registration Act section to solicit the American Section of the Jewish Agency's 1953 "covenant" document with the Israeli government:
http://irmep.org/ila/JA/covenant/default.asp
Under the covenant the JA has the right to review legislation before it goes to the Knesset and other sovereign powers.
After the DOJ forced the American Section of the Jewish Agency to admit it was an agent of a foreign government power, it shut down. Reemerging, in the same office, performing the same activities, as the World Zionist Organization, claiming no foreign government principal:
http://irmep.org/ila/JA/default.asp
The shells keep moving, but the game is always the same.
Posted by Israel_Lobby_Archive at 04/13/2009 @ 06:55am
The use of "demonic" is an obvious appeal to the chief support for "Israel right or wrong" stances in the United States...i.e. the Religious Right.
"Bible Code" for "It's not that they're just wrong...they're inspired by someone...could it be.....SATAN?!?!??!" (Church Lady impersonation).
RRs eat that stuff up...and no doubt Larry will show up to prove my point.
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 07:54am
"demonic" - interesting choice of words.
Funny that Ahmadinejad says that America is "possessed" by Zionists.
Maybe we need an exorcism here at home first.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 08:33am
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 08:33am
And....here we go again....
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 09:13am
And....here we go again....
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 09:13am | ignore this person | warn this person
Mask - stop trying to play the "even-hand" in this debate. The Zionists are hiding behind your apron strings and you are letting them.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 09:34am
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 09:34am
"I can no longer sit back and allow Zionist infiltration, Zionist indoctrination, Zionist subversion and the international Zionist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."---Gen. Jack. D. OneVote, Burpelson Air Force Base
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 10:09am
By Bill Sammon Managing Editor, Washington Bureau, FOX News Channel - 04/07/09
'President Obama has not attended church services on any of the 11 Sundays since he took office, despite his pledge to find a new church after quitting Trinity United nearly a year ago because of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's incendiary rhetoric.
"We probably won't make any firm decision on this until January, when we know what our lives our going to be like," Obama told reporters last May at a press conference that he called to announce his break with Trinity.
By this point in former President George W. Bush's tenure, the president had spent several Sunday mornings attending services at St. John's Episcopal Church, which is located opposite the White House off of Lafayette Park.
But the president made no decision in January, February or March. And now, with Easter just days away, Obama has yet to reveal what church he may have chosen or when he might attend his first Sunday services as president.'
Apr. 8, 2009 HILARY LEILA KRIEGER, The Jerusalem Post, Washington , THE JERUSALEM POST WASHINGTON -
'US President Barack Obama was scheduled to celebrate Pessah on Thursday night with staff and friends in what is believed to be the first White House Seder attended by an American president.
The event was slipped onto the president's public schedule Tuesday night with little fanfare, following a letter signed by Obama earlier in the day wishing Americans who mark the day a "peaceful and relaxing holiday."
While presidential proclamations in honor of Pessah were common throughout the administrations of George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, this year's Seder is believed to be the first of its kind.'
Great message to Muslim world - "you can trust the secular state"
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:11am
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 10:09am | ignore this person | warn this person
Your thoughts on the above?
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:12am
" All pro-arabic people arguement don't hold any water when you consider the avowed goals of Islamic countries toward the jewish people!"
the vast majority of iranians, especially younger iranians, do not share the sentiment of which you speak (at least in terms of an "avowed goal"). most would just like to go about their business without fear, violence and war.
Posted by darladoon at 04/13/2009 @ 10:13am
'In his letter, Obama described the story of Jews' ascent from slavery to freedom in the Land of Israel as being "among the most powerful stories of suffering and redemption in human history," accompanied by rituals and symbols that indicate "the beauty of freedom and the responsibility it entails."
He also said the holiday presented a message for all humankind. "As part of a larger global community, we all must work to ensure that our brothers and sisters of every race, religion, culture and nationality are free from bondage and repression, and are able to live in peace."
He concluded his letter with the traditional Hebrew greeting chag sameach, or happy holiday.'
Apr. 8, 2009 HILARY LEILA KRIEGER, The Jerusalem Post, Washington , THE JERUSALEM POST WASHINGTON -
The righteous are blind to their own hypocrisy - how about a shout out to the Palestinians Obama - or are they all terrorists and demons cause your buddies (staff) at the table say so.
Just repugnant.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:34am
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:12am
My thoughts?
That when a supposed liberal starts using FOX as their news source, just to grab hold of anything that feeds their paranoia?....the bounds of sanity have been slipt loose.
Now, perhaps you should explain to Group Captain Mandrake how you came about this...well...'theory' of yours, General?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 10:56am
"the international threat posed by nuclear weapons capacity in Iran (and other demonic societies)." Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 06:49am
The only country that has "nuclear weapons capacity" in the neighborhood is Israel. Are they a "demonic society" to?
The nation of Israel has been a brutal society since it's earliest inception. When Moses and his barbarian horde moved north out of Eqypt to conquer Canaan they savaged many tribes along the way. Killing women and children and slaughtering entire settlements. After "God" had given Moses the sacred 10. (one of which is, "thou shalt not kill")
For the day that sort of thing was business as usual. And I would not call them "demonic". But now there are people who want to call Iran "demonic". Odd. Just sayin...
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 10:56am
<i>Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:12am </i>
I know this wasn't addressed to me, but how about...
Completely Inconsequential.
<i>Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 10:34am </i>
Are you kidding me? He celebrates Passover, makes a broader statement about bondage and repression, and this constitutes hypocrisy? Could it be he celebrated Passover because it actually links into the Christian tradition he considers himself a part of? Could that POSSIBLY have anything to do with it? And moreover, I understand that he did venture slightly into the political when he made his "peace thumbs-up" statement, but is your argument actually "he didn't mention the Palestinians, so he's not concerned about them"???
Posted by Thrawn at 04/13/2009 @ 11:02am
Now, perhaps you should explain to Group Captain Mandrake how you came about this...well...'theory' of yours, General?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 10:56am | ignore this person | warn this person
'I took neoconservatism seriously for a long time, because it offered an interesting critique of what's wrong with the Middle East, and seemed to have the only coherent strategic answer to the savagery of 9/11. I now realize that the answer - the permanent occupation of Iraq - was absurdly utopian and only made feasible by exploiting the psychic trauma of that dreadful day. The closer you examine it, the clearer it is that neoconservatism, in large part, is simply about enabling the most irredentist elements in Israel and sustaining a permanent war against anyone or any country who disagrees with the Israeli right. That's the conclusion I've been forced to these last few years. And to insist that America adopt exactly the same constant-war-as-survival that Israelis have been slowly forced into. Cheney saw America as Netanyahu sees Israel: a country built for permanent war and the "tough, mean, dirty, nasty business" of waging it (with a few war crimes to keep the enemy on their toes).
But America is not Israel. America might support Israel, might have a special relationship with Israel. But America is not Israel. And once that distinction is made, much of the neoconservative ideology collapses.'
A False Premise - Andrew Sullivan - 02/05/09 - The Daily Dish
Others have come to this conclusion as well. So far, all that I have heard from you is 'Hear No Evil - See No Evil.' You are a classic establishment toadie - make the truth "the fringe" in order to marginalize it - a classic strategy to insure the status quo.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 11:10am
Could it be he celebrated Passover because it actually links into the Christian tradition he considers himself a part of?
Posted by Thrawn at 04/13/2009 @ 11:02am | ignore this person | warn this person
Geez.....I missed the invitation to the Good Friday/Easter dinner at the White House....did you get an invitation?
Well maybe he could have mentioned 2006 Lebanon while he was at it.
Man....choke on your food toasts to the betterment of mankind....in the company of those who work against it.
A monster's ball if there ever was one.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 11:25am
'Today's soldiers seem to prefer more explicit images on their T-shirts. Recent popular prints include, to name just a few, an illustration of a pregnant Muslim woman in the cross-hairs of a sniper's rifle, with a text reading, "1 Shot 2 Kills"; a sketch of a dead Palestinian baby lying on the ground next to his grieving mother, again in the cross-hairs, with text that alludes to a popular brand of condoms and reads, "Better Use Durex"; and catchy slogans like "We won't chill 'til we confirm the kill!" and "Let every Arab mother know that her son's fate is in my hands."
This last one is particularly distasteful for most Israelis, being a gruesome spin on a famous saying by David Ben-Gurion, the nation's founding father. "Let every Jewish mother know," goes the original saying, "that the fate of her sons is in the hands of worthy commanders." That slogan was painted on a board at the entrance to Bahad Arba, the military base where I underwent my basic training. At the time, it was understood as a statement of responsibility: a commander must bear the awesome burden of life and death, and must use his judgment, mercy and constraint for the best. Today, however, the hallowed aura of a moral Israeli military has been replaced by a drunken sense of might and a maliciously mirthful carelessness for pain, suffering and human life.'
Excerpt - IDF Morality Play; Liel Liebovitz; 04/09/09 - The Nation
"As part of a larger global community, we all must work to ensure that our brothers and sisters of every race, religion, culture and nationality are free from bondage and repression, and are able to live in peace."
Barack Obama - in celebration of Passover 2009 -
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 11:34am
I'm 1/4 Jewish and I'm sick and tired of watching the DEMONIC zionists make the Nazis and the Mafia look like amateurs. If decent people, Jewish and otherwise, don't step up and stop these monsters, ya' know who's gonna get blamed? You got it. Assuming we live, that is.
Posted by DejaVu at 04/13/2009 @ 12:09pm
If Iran had nuclear weapons, and if they wanted to use them against Israel, they would have to take out the Palestinians, part, if not all of the neighboring Arab countries, and Jerusalem, which is also a holy city in Islam. There is no such thing as a surgical strike with nuclear weapons. This is nonsense!
Posted by pjcasey at 04/13/2009 @ 12:22pm
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 11:10am
Deny the Zionists your "essence", OV.
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 12:28pm
While I would not use "demonic" to characterize Iran, even in an off-hand sort of way, nevertheless Iran is a country that demonically held innocent American hostages for almost 2 years, provides military and financial assistance to demonic terrorist groups like Hezballah and Hamas, still refers to America as the 'great Satan', and demonically trumpets its desire to see israel wiped off of the face of the globe/map (to Israelis, it's a distinction without a difference). This is an article about nothing, a Seinfeldian ruse to take a cheap shot at Ross because he tells the truth about the Israeli peace offer at Camp David and Arafat's refusal to negotiate in good faith. Tragic.
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 12:34pm
Deny the Zionists your "essence", OV.
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 12:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Words to the wise Mask to be sure. 'God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.'
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 12:40pm
'There is no greater contrast from the point of view of costs-benefit in comparing Saudi Arabia to Israel. The latter is subsidized by the US, which has given over $120 billion dollars over the last 30 years while it competes, as the second largest arms exporter, with the US-military industrial complex thus costing American jobs and supplies absolutely no strategic materials to the US economy. Indeed Israel has direct access to the most up-to-date US funded military technology, which it then sells to its clients. This is in stark contrast to Saudi Arabia's servile relation with the US. Israel has constantly demanded and received US support and financing for its wars, its illegal colonization of Palestinian land and has unwavering US support for its repudiation of international law and numerous violations of United Nations mandates. While Saudi Arabia supports the US economy and is a strategic supplier of petroleum, Israel drains the US economy and secures its petroleum from it. Beginning in early 2007, the entire Zionist power configuration (ZPC) mobilized to block the US arms and military technology sales to Saudi Arabia. Zionist pressure was so intense and its control over Congress was so evident to the White House and Pentagon that Defense Secretary Gates did not even try to counter the ZPC's campaign in the US Congress. Instead he went straight to the ZPC's control center in Israel and not with empty hands. He pleaded with Israel to call of its American attack dogs in exchange for a ‘donation' of over $30 billion dollars in US military handouts to Israel over the next ten years. Olmert accepted Gates offer: The US had paid the price but still the ZPC did not turn over their hostage Congress....
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 1:24pm
President Bush and Secretary Gates were convinced that Israel would muzzle the Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations to allow the Saudi sale to go through. This did not happen. Why should it? President Bush could not withdraw the well-publicized pay-off to Israel; it was already in the legislative books. He could not retaliate – the ZPC-controlled Congress would oppose any and all counter measures.
So Bush and Gates went ahead and sent the bill to Congress authorizing the $20 billion sales to Saudi Arabia, a trillion dollar economy with a two-bit military wholly dependent on its US military protector.
Immediately the ZPC rounded up its automatic 190 members of the House of Representatives to sign a letter opposing the sale. The ZPC formulated the position embodied in the letter and oversaw its draft with the collaboration of its co-religionists in Congress. Zionist Congress members Shelley Berkeley and Anthony Weiner teamed up with Michael Ferguson. The Zion-Cons claimed justifiably that they could mobilize over three quarters of the Congress on any issue affecting Israel's ‘security'. Zionist lawmakers claimed, "the sale would undermine Israel's superiority in the region". Every major independent military think tank would dispute this argument since Israel is the only nuclear power in the region, has the biggest and most technologically sophisticated air force and missile system, while Saudi Arabia and all the Gulf States have trouble even controlling local ground level bomb throwers.
There are two likely outcomes both demonstrating categorically that it is the ZPC that dictates US policies in the Middle East:
The military sales will not fly.
The military sale will be approved on conditions that Israel is privy to all its details'
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 1:25pm
cite to above:
Bush's Twenty-Billion Dollar Arms Sale to Saudi Arabia
The Zionist Power Configuration Defeats Big Oil, the Military Industrial Complex, the White House and the Pentagon
by James Petras
Global Research, November 25, 2007
......................................
BAE in new £20bn Saudi arms deal Contract for more warplanes to follow Lords' support for closure of bribery inquiry
From The Sunday TimesAugust 10, 2008; Dominic O'Connell
'BAE Systems is in talks to sell dozens more Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft to Saudi Arabia in a deal that will reawaken bribery allegations made over earlier arms sales to the Gulf kingdom.
Senior defence-industry sources said last week the negotiations, which have been under way for some months, have been given added impetus by a controversial House of Lords decision last month.
The Lords said the Serious Fraud Office had been right to suspend a probe into alleged bribery, reversing an earlier Court of Appeal decision.'
See also Black Money - Frontline documentary last week.
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 1:31pm
Lest Mr. Dreyfuss' fishing confuse, it should be understood -- and easily seen from the Web site linked to -- that Amb. Ross wrote the English-language preface to this report; that the report itself was written in Hebrew, by other authors; and that the translation of that Hebrew-language report rather awkwardly -- and sillily -- renders the term "hevrot merousha'ot aheirot" as "other demonic societies". Unless Amb. Ross was the report's translator, Mr. Dreyfuss' article reads very much like a trumped-up canard.
Posted by Disparishun at 04/13/2009 @ 1:50pm
So, when was the last time Israeli leaders advocated "wiping Islamist from the face of the earth" and totally destroying that "national identity" of people? All pro-arabic people arguement don't hold any water when you consider the avowed goals of Islamic countries toward the jewish people!
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 06:49am | ignore this person | warn this person
Curious NONE will answer that question which conversely many Islamic states have proposed now and in times past?
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 1:52pm
commanceamerican-It would be a bit idiotic for Israeli leaders to call for the destruction of Islam since there are about 1.5 billion Muslims,but only around 14 million Jews.That would make as much sense as having a black person go to a KKK rally in 1930s Mississippi and yelling death to white people.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/13/2009 @ 2:06pm
held innocent American hostages for almost 2 years, Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 12:34pm
Innocent American Hostages? Do you mean the "Diplomats", that were responsible in part for the coup d'etat by the British and U.S. Governments that were a result of "Operation Ajax"? That deposed Mohammad Mosaddeq? A secular leader. Hmmm, and then to replace him with a despot? Like the Shah?
Are you mentally disabled? It is amazing how many people ignore true history in order to further their diseased religio-political nonsense.
I was in Iran when the Shah was in power. I talked to many people, average Iranians. And how they felt about a puppet like the Shaw. And what he had done to them. Disgusting..
Interference in the affairs of another soverign nation by the war mongers and profiteers of the West is what has created the problems we now face.
I remember crossing the border from Turkey to Iran and entering the customs office. There was a huge picture of the "Shaw", standing atop the Earth in full military regalia. Medals covering his uniform. And I thought.. Something is wrong here.
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 2:21pm
Disparishun, I'm more than happy to be corrected about the JPPPI report and its reference to "demonic" societies, but as chairman of JPPPI Ross gave his imprimatur to whatever the organization published. It's their translation, not mine. I never suggested that Ross actually wrote the report. Meanwhile, you cited the original Hebrew, "hevrot merousha'ot aheirot." Translation, please?
Posted by RobertDreyfuss at 04/13/2009 @ 2:42pm
Innocent American Hostages? Do you mean the "Diplomats", that were responsible in part for the coup d'etat by the British and U.S. Governments that were a result of "Operation Ajax"? That deposed Mohammad Mosaddeq?-----Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 2:21pm
All the people taken hostage in 1979 were involved in the overthrow of Mosaddeq??!??!?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 2:43pm
"Does Dennis Ross believe that Iran is a "demonic" nation? "
I do not think him truly capable of believing in anything. Not a rational beings cynicism, at all.
One continuing, I think at least, missed point of relevancy core to humans as a rule last I checked is the propensity to become what you see, imbibe, immerse yourself etc. etc. in.
Ergo:
The continued mental focus on (pardon moi french) dip-shit machinations for people you at best hold in extreme contempt, will in time and at some point render one, doubtless irreversibly, a dip-shit.
Simply more "flight forward" excreta, from someone who once could care less, and now, no longer knows better... Probably thought it a brilliant piece.
Posted by V at 04/13/2009 @ 2:52pm
'Israel arms exports go to other hot spots in the world. A partial list includes South Africa, Argentina, China, Singapore, Turkey, India and Ethiopia. It is a nice trade for Israel with $3 billion plus coming in each year to help them defend themselves and over $4 billion going out as they on-sell the military arms and technology to others. The US is by proxy selling arms to China and others countries it distrusts . There is an irony here, as the US often finds itself facing its own armaments in countries where it moves to intercede, such as Afghanistan. Israel, in addition to the government aid, also gets $1.5 billion a year in private donations from individuals or foundations in the US. All this for a country with a population of less than 8 million. On a per head basis, a great deal of Israeli wealth relies on the transfer in and out of military technology.....
If you follow the circle - the US sells to Israel, who export to China, who then sell to Iran. By proxy, whether intentional or not, the US just assisted Iran to escalate its military capacity. This is the soft underbelly of foreign policy and one that any four year term US President will have difficulty in affecting. So though the US people voted for "Change", how much change they will get in terms of foreign arms contracts, is questionable.'
Arms contracts - the underbelly of Foreign Policy
By Clarity Staff Reporter on March 29th, 2009
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 2:53pm
'Israel arms exports go to other hot spots in the world. A partial list includes South Africa, Argentina, China, Singapore, Turkey, India and Ethiopia. It is a nice trade for Israel with $3 billion plus coming in each year to help them defend themselves and over $4 billion going out as they on-sell the military arms and technology to others. The US is by proxy selling arms to China and others countries it distrusts . There is an irony here, as the US often finds itself facing its own armaments in countries where it moves to intercede, such as Afghanistan. Israel, in addition to the government aid, also gets $1.5 billion a year in private donations from individuals or foundations in the US. All this for a country with a population of less than 8 million. On a per head basis, a great deal of Israeli wealth relies on the transfer in and out of military technology.....
If you follow the circle - the US sells to Israel, who export to China, who then sell to Iran. By proxy, whether intentional or not, the US just assisted Iran to escalate its military capacity. This is the soft underbelly of foreign policy and one that any four year term US President will have difficulty in affecting. So though the US people voted for "Change", how much change they will get in terms of foreign arms contracts, is questionable.'
Arms contracts - the underbelly of Foreign Policy
By Clarity Staff Reporter on March 29th, 2009
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 2:53pm
I'm willing to bet, without actually knowing, that none of the hostages were involved in anything remotely involving Mosaddeq, but no matter. "Diseased religio-political nonsense", like being "mentally disabled", is immune from facts and rational discourse.
Richard Dreyfuss -- assuming the Hebrew term is not "demonic", I assume that in the interests of truth and fact, and to avoid misinformation of a libelous nature, you will utilize your publishing privileges to provide a correction as visible as the original accusation.
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 2:58pm
correction -- Robert Dreyfuss
My bad. Nothing intended.
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 3:09pm
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 2:43pm
I don't believe I said that. Please don't put your words in my mouth. They taste nasty..
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 3:14pm
tell chaoszen -- actually, yes you did say that. If you meant no association between the hostages and the diplomats involved with Mossadeq's coup, then your post is gibberish.
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 3:38pm
I've got a crisp C-note for the first poster to ride on Crown Heights kike. Send a message, get paid. The shtreimel for the cash.
Posted by gangpapist at 04/13/2009 @ 3:53pm
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 3:38pm
Morons, the policies were the same. The actual diplomats make little difference. It's the policies.
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 4:10pm
I remember crossing the border from Turkey to Iran and entering the customs office. There was a huge picture of the "Shaw", standing atop the Earth in full military regalia. Medals covering his uniform. And I thought.. Something is wrong here.
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 2:21pm
Ah yes....The Shah...darling of the Barbara Walter's and progeny Sunday TV show talk circuits, and preeminent authority on the Middle East.
'Before 1979, when Shah Muhammad Reza Pahlavi held power, Iran was the world's biggest buyer of Israeli arms. The Islamic fundamentalist government which succeeded the Shah militantly damned Zionism up and down and hung a prominent Iranian Jew for "spying for Israel." In 1980, however, when the Iraq-Iran war began, Iranian representatives met in Paris with Israel's deputy defense minister and worked out a "Jews for arms" deal. Iran permitted Jews to emigrate and Israel sold Iran ammunition and spare parts for Chieftain tanks and US-made F-4 Phantom aircraft. Channeled through a private Israeli arms dealer, this particular agreement appropriately ended in 1984, when Iran was slow in paying its bills'
Washington Report, November 1986, Page 2
Special Report
Israeli Arms Sales to Iran By Jane Hunter
And wasn't the US backing Iraq (Saddam) during the Iraq-Iran war? Our good friend and recipient of US taxpayer support selling arms (our arms) to the bad guys?
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 4:14pm
RobertDreyfuss, you talk about correction. However, as I stated: Amb. Ross wrote the English-language preface to this report; the report itself was written in Hebrew, by other authors; and the translation of that Hebrew-language report rather oddly renders the term "hevrot merousha'ot aheirot" as "other demonic societies". Your article simply fails to address any of these facts, and therefore gives the impression -- for instance, among many of the commenters here, starting with the first -- that Amb. Ross refers to Iran as a "demonic society". If, as you now state, you never intended to give the impression that Ross actually called Iran a demonic society, then consider clearly saying so.
Posted by Disparishun at 04/13/2009 @ 4:54pm
Posted by gren at 04/13/2009 @ 3:38pm
Speaking of accuracy and other vagaries of intellectual honesty, you made mention some time ago, of your belief that certain policies, would not ... have resulted in Palestinian flavoured bantustans?
You would not mind repeating them, would you?
Posted by V at 04/13/2009 @ 5:05pm
As to translation itself, by the way, the proper rendering of demonic would surely be shedi (demonish) or daymoni (except that I am not sure that daymon in Hebrew has the some connotations as in English) or miflatzti (monstrous).
The term "hevrot merousha'ot aheirot" is surely an interesting one to translate. "Society" is correct, except that it must be understood in terms of an organized political society (hevra is closer to the French société than the English society, hence the term's availability in both French and Hebrew to mean, roughly, "corporation"). Merousha is harder to translate -- a quick Google News search (google.co.il) illustrates why, as the word is used roughly to mean "malicious" (as in malicious gossip), "mean" (as in mean SMSes), and so forth. I suppose I would translate it here as "very harmful", or something of the sort. It does render particularly well in English -- a regular pitfall of translation, as anyone who has worked in the field knows.
Which is why "gotcha" journalism that bases itself on translations of documents is, in my opinion, rather silly. Perhaps Mr. Dreyfuss would be interested in covering more substantive matters.
Posted by Disparishun at 04/13/2009 @ 5:11pm
Yes, Mr. Dreyfuss, please cover how the purposeful mistranslation of "wipe Israel off the map" has been ginned up into near hysteria.
Posted by Israel_Lobby_Archive at 04/13/2009 @ 5:24pm
Posted by Israel_Lobby_Archive at 04/13/2009 @ 5:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
The "Wipe Israel Off The Map" Hoax What Ahmadinejad really said and why this broken record is just another ad slogan for war
Paul Joseph Watson Prison Planet Friday, January 26, 2007
'Whenever Bush administration officials and others used Halabja as a pretext for war, the mass media routinely failed to mention the DIA report, just as they have failed to provide any balance on the real meaning of Ahmadinejad's statement, despite the fact that it is completely distorted almost every day and used as a call to arms as well as a propagandistic ploy to convince western populations that dark skinned invaders are hell-bent on their wholesale destruction.'
Posted by OneVote at 04/13/2009 @ 6:43pm
Posted by chaoszen at 04/13/2009 @ 3:14pm
Then what DID you mean, chaos with that specific reference? And the phrase "Innocent American Hostages?"?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 6:58pm
Posted by Disparishun at 04/13/2009 @ 5:11pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I think Dreyfuss' writing today made the point that Ross is at the top of an organization with a history and current agenda completely at odds with the stated intent of the Obama administration to begin to engage with Iran. Ross is famously part of an overall political machine in the US that places Israel's agenda at a higher priority than any other, and that has helped create a long period of badly dysfunctional US government in the context of the Middle East.
I do not know why you are personally fixating on this one (possibly) bad translation; Ross has an openly visible history as a public figure as does the organization Dreyfuss is writing about. Finally, Dreyfuss' response to you - that Ross gives his authority to organizations that are effectively running PR and political railroading operations that run counter to the agenda of the Obama government and what many people consider to be basically sane policy for the Middle East, translation or no - is sound.
Posted by syfriendly at 04/13/2009 @ 7:01pm
It would certainly be incorrect to say that Iran is demonic since a nation is not a person nor a spirit being.
However, as a pastor and theologian, it is not a outlandish suggestion to say that with the Mullahs at the least there is very much so, a demonic influence.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/13/2009 @ 7:14pm
Posted by antisocialist at 04/13/2009 @ 7:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I think you've managed to confuse reality with that old film, "The Exorcist".
Posted by syfriendly at 04/13/2009 @ 7:48pm
Posted by antisocialist at 04/13/2009 @ 7:14pm
Because they "want to kill people to impose their ideology"?
No...can't be that....if it's the RIGHT kind of people, even Jesus supports that!
Right, Larry?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 9:06pm
Right, Larry?
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 9:06pm
Jesus supports the use of tactical nuclear weapons if it's all about spreading democracy!
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/13/2009 @ 9:53pm
talking to atheists and agnostics about the spiritual realm is like trying to explain nuclear fission to a cockroach.
Posted by antisocialist at 04/13/2009 @ 11:27pm
If they are right about "evolution" it is possible that at least the cockroach might reach a level of intelligence able to comprehend such arguements even though still unable to possess a soul with which to act upon the information!
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 11:48pm
Sorry, I have a mean spirited sense of humor!
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/13/2009 @ 11:49pm
Just curious, does any nation that stones women for adultery and hangs gays for gayness get an automatic adjective upgrade once it starts hosting Holocaust denial conferences and threatening Israel?
Memo to the Christian Right, start hatin' Jews!
Posted by gangpapist at 04/13/2009 @ 11:49pm
To hate the Jews would be to hate God's "chosen people", which of course those who accept Christ as the personal savior become (chosen people). You know the new branch grafted into the tree. To hate the Jews would mean "selfhate" which is to close to being a leftist for me, so I must decline!
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/14/2009 @ 12:13am
Posted by Mask at 04/13/2009 @ 6:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I am guessing that what he is trying to say is that although the hostages themselves may not have been responsible, they worked or were linked to the US Government whose policies kept the Shah in power.
Brief history lesson to put this into context; 1951 Iranian parliament pass legislation to nationalize the British owned oil industry 1953 Military coup heavily backed by CIA and MI6 overthrows democratically elected Iranian Govt, reinstates Shah. 1961 Shah's White Revolution - land reform 1964 Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini exiled 1965 Premier Hassan Ali Mansur assassinated. Internal security service (SAVAK) become more active. 13000 - 15000 people killed, thousands more arrested and tortured. 1965 People's Mujahedin of Iran (MEK founded, opposed rule of Shah Early 1970's MEK assassinated Tehran-based US military personnel and US civilians involved in military contracts January 1978 - December 1979 Islamic Revolution November 4 1979 Shah admitted to US for cancer treatment, Iranian students seize US Embassy personnel, labeling the embassy a "den of spies". Embassy staff denounced as CIA agents plotting overthrow of revolutionary government - as they had done in 1953. September 22 1980 Iraq invades Iran, from 1983 backed by US. More than 100000 Iranians victims of chemical weapons. US provides satellite imagery to help Iraqi targeting. July 1985 to November 1986 Iran Contra, US Government selling drugs in Nicaragua to finance arms to Iran via Israel 1997 Reformist Mohammad Khatami elected 2001 Khatami re-elected. Reforms blocked by religious Guardian Council Jan 29 2002 Iran branded as part of Axis of Evil by Bush 2005 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad elected
Posted by audacity at 04/14/2009 @ 07:39am
apologies for the lack of spacing in previous post, makes it difficult to read. Check out the wikipedia page for a more complete history of Iran
Posted by audacity at 04/14/2009 @ 07:44am
Posted by comancheamerican at 04/14/2009 @ 12:13am
Do Jews go to Heaven, RIO? I thought ONLY by accepting Christ as your personal saviour did that...and Jews don't do that?
Posted by Mask at 04/14/2009 @ 08:07am
Posted by audacity at 04/14/2009 @ 07:39am
No, I'm thinking what chaos meant to say...was what he said. A knee-jerk defense of the hostage taking, just as dopey as a knee-jerk defense of the 1953 coup from some Rightie.
Posted by Mask at 04/14/2009 @ 08:09am
In response to syfriendly, it is not I that is fixated on this one (clearly) bad translation. Rather, it is the subject of Mr. Dreyfuss' article ("Is Iran 'Demonic'? Ask Dennis Ross").
Whatever Ross' involvement what you believe to be "PR and political railroading operations", it is rather a stretch to assert that the JPPPI -- the organization that this particular article is about -- is such an operation.
Israel_Lobby_Archive asks that, rather than play games of gotcha journalism on ginned-up quotes, Mr. Dreyfuss devote his space to addressing how that kind of journalism misleads. I do not know much about the specific episode that I_L_A is talking about -- unlike I_L_A, I do not read Farsi -- but, in general, I agree with him.
Posted by Disparishun at 04/14/2009 @ 2:41pm
tell V (4/13/ 5:09)
kind of an odd query, and I'm not really sure to what you are referring, but I'm guessing it relates to a trail re: a different dreyfuss diary, in which I referenced the Camp David negotiations.
See http://www.mideastweb.org/lastmaps.htm , which distinquishes between Israel's opening gambit in the negotiations and Israel's ultimate, real offer. The bantustans canard is the refuge of partisan propgandists and ignorant fellow travelers.
Posted by gren at 04/14/2009 @ 4:00pm
So during his time working with the JPPPI, did Denis Ross register as an agent of a foreign country as required by law? My guess is no. This rule seems to not apply to those working for the state of Israel.
Is this change we can believe in?
Posted by rory_88 at 04/14/2009 @ 6:17pm
wonder if he was talking about the government of Iran and hopefully not the entire nation? As I would like to separate the Jewish nation from Zionist organisation/government. Why ordinary people should get bad names for the actions or comments of a bunch of others?!
Posted by AJEngland at 04/15/2009 @ 01:26am