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RedditPreliminary, mostly leaked, results from the elections in Iraq suggest a tectonic shift away from ultrareligious Shiite parties and separatist Kurds, with nationalists, secular parties, Sunnis, and Prime Minister Maliki all making huge gains.
If so, it's the first step toward a major recalibration of Iraqi politics -- and for the good. Big losers: the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq (ISCI), the Iranian-backed Shiite separatist party, whose militia, the Badr Brigade, was responsible for thousands of assassinations since 2003, and the Kurds, whose hold on Nineveh province in the north, was shattered. The election can also be seen as a setback for Iran, whose chief allies in Iraq -- especially ISCI, but also Jalal Talabani's Kurds -- lost.
Actual election results won't be known for a few days, and complete results may take as long as several weeks. Even more complicated, once the results are known, it will be up to the parties -- province by province -- to create coalitions in each provincial council that can form a majority, name a governor and a chief of police, and start running things. That could take a few weeks longer.
But the initial results, if they hold, mean that Iraq will at least avoid what could have been a disastrous outcome: a rigged election in which the ruling parties, especially the Shiite-Kurdish alliance, held on to power against the rising force of the Sunnis, secular Iraqis, and anti-establishment, disenfranchised Shiites.
The Times highlights the fact that not only Maliki but secular parties won big. It says:
"The relative success of the secular parties may be a sign that a significant number of Iraqis are disillusioned with the religious parties that have been in power but have done little to deliver needed services."
Among the secular parties that apparently did well is that of former Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, whose Iraqiya list made big gains in Baghdad province and may have done well in Basra, too. (See my interview Allawi and an ally here.)
Maliki, according to some reports, swept the vote in all nine Shiite-dominated southern provinces, including Basra, where he won about half the vote, with ISCI getting only 20 percent. Since taking over as prime minister three years ago, Maliki has tried to portray himself as a born-again nationalist, downplaying the ultrareligious underpinnings of his Islamic Dawa party, a cult-like, secretive movement founded by ayatollahs in the 1950s. Few secular Iraqis trust him, but they're willing to make deals with Maliki if he plays fair. And secular and nationalist Iraqis will be happy that Maliki appears to have all but crushed ISCI, widely seen in Iraq as a sectarian party that wants to partition Iraq. ISCI is also criticized as a tool of Iran.
Newsday headlines ISCI's losses, saying:
"The broad message was that the eventual results would punish religious-leaning factions such as the Supreme Council that are blamed for stoking sectarian violence, and reward secular parties seen capable of holding Iraq's relative calm."'There is a backlash from Iraqis against sectarian and religious politics,' said Mustafa al-Ani, an Iraqi political analyst based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates."
In Nineveh, whose capital is Mosul, power had been in the hands of a minority Kurdish bloc, since the Sunni Arabs -- who make up 60 to 80 percent of the province's population -- boycotted the 2005 vote. This time, a Sunni-led party, Al Hadba, reportedly won 40 percent of the vote, putting it in the drivers' seat. It's a party that grew out of the Sunni nationalist movement and the Awakening, and it appealed to members of the old Baath party and to Iraqi resistance fighters. Al Hadba also won support from Maliki, too, who took a stand against the Kurds as part of his ongoing effort to burnish his credentials as a nationalist who favors a unitary Iraq. A US official watching the vote told Reuters:
"If al-Hadba has done as well as we think ... we're probably looking at a provincial council in which al-Hadba can govern alone. The crisis of legitimacy is addressed."
A potential trouble spot could be Anbar province, in the west, where the resistance movement originated. The minority, religious party, the Iraqi Islamic Party, controlled the province after the rigged, 2005 vote, and this time various parties associated with the Sunni Awakening and other, secular and nationalist parties expected big gains. Votes aren't counted yet, but there are some red flags. From the Times:
Ahmed Abu Risha, a powerful tribesman in Anbar Province and the brother of one of the founders of the Awakening councils, which joined the Americans to fight Islamic insurgents, said he believed that the turnout was lower than the 40 percent announced by the election commission and that the numbers were being manipulated by the Iraqi Islamic Party. "If the Islamic Party wins, it will be another Darfur," he said.
Also, no word yet on how the Sadist-linked, independent parties did, in Baghdad or in other provinces. Muqtada al-Sadr, once seen as the most powerful man in Iraq, has plummeted in popularity, and he's squirreled away in Iran now. But his movement, which represents the Shiite poor and less affluent voters, may still have scored important gains. Many Sadr-leaning Shiites, however, may have opted for Maliki this time.
This post will be updated later today and during the week. Stay tuned.
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Robert Dreyfuss
A chronicle of America's adventures in foreign policy and national security.
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Well, that's some good news.
Maybe the natural inclination of the Iraqis to secularism (under Saddam and before) will hold up.
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 09:02am
President Barack Obama told Americans on Sunday a substantial number of the 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq would be home within a year, saying Iraqis were now ready to take more responsibility for their own security.
Obama, who inherited two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, pledged during his presidential campaign to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq within 16 months, at a rate of one or two brigades a month.
In an interview with NBC television, Obama praised the provincial elections held in Iraq at the weekend, the most peaceful polls since U.S.-led forces invaded in 2003 to topple Saddam Hussein.
Hmmmm! I must have missed his congradulations to former Pres. the Hon. G.W. Bush on the brilliant success he made of Iraq, but I guess that is too much to ask for?
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/02/2009 @ 09:11am
How do you gauge the success of something that shouldn't have happened in the first place? At the cost of 1 million+ lives? You're also suggesting that foreigners dictate how Iraqi politics go.
Also, Obama never said he would "withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq within 16 months." Only reduce their presence significantly.
Posted by dadixon at 02/02/2009 @ 09:19am
Maybe the natural inclination of the Iraqis to secularism (under Saddam and before) will hold up. Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 09:02am
OPERATION AJAX II
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 09:36am
Maybe the natural inclination of the Iraqis to secularism (under Saddam and before) will hold up. Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 09:02am
that's what i was talking about mask.
people don't care about religion. they want food.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 09:37am
alas,
so many dead never got to vote.
NEWSFLASH!
Equatorial Guinea announces free elections.
oh, wait. they never stopped selling oil to the u.s., so their dictator is o.k.
in fact, he's condi's good friend.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 09:40am
well...apparantly the iraqis are getting sick of the anarchy. with news that the US is indeed going to pull out, perhaps the iraqi people are going to pull it all together after all.
good news all around.
still should never have gone in there to begin with, and not all's well that ends well...but good is better than bad, so...
huzzah!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/02/2009 @ 09:42am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/02/2009 @ 09:11am
It's the "independent" in him that makes him Cut & Paste from himself....LOL
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 09:43am
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 09:37am
al-Maliki degenerates from a "Yeltsin" into a "Putin"...you won't see too many of the "Bush will be redeemed by history" crowd too upset by him having to crush a few opposition parties.
If he becomes "OUR dictator", they'll claim its a success. (the old Cold War paradigm) 4100+ GI families might not think it was worth it though.
If however, he truly does stay democratic and keeps Iraq secular...they may be onto something. Still too early to tell.
I'm still waiting on those "oil revenues that will pay for the war" that Wolfowitz promised us. The Iraqis better shake a leg, they've got $500 BILLION they owe us.
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 09:47am
Let's hear it for the surge! Let's hope the success of W will let Obama keep his promise of getting the troops out of Iraq!
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 09:49am
Also, Obama never said he would "withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq within 16 months." Only reduce their presence significantly.
Posted by dadixon at 02/02/2009 @ 09:19am | ignore this person | warn this person
-----
B. Hussein Obama's campaign promise;
"The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased, directed by military commanders on the ground and done in consultation with the Iraqi government. Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months"
B. Hussein Obama equivocated in July 2008;
"I would be deliberate and careful in how we got out," he said. "I would bring our troops home at a pace of one-to-two brigades per month. And at that pace we would have our combat troops out in 16 months. That position has not changed. I have not equivocated on that position. I am not searching for maneuvering room with respect to that position."
"I said that I would remove our combat troops from Iraq in 16 months, with the understanding that it might be necessary-likely to be necessary-to maintain a residual force to provide potential training, logistical support, to protect our civilians in Iraq.
"I believe 16 months is the right time frame, but, as I've said consistently, I will listen to the recommendations of my commanders"
CLEAN OUT YOUR EARS PLEASE DADIXON!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/02/2009 @ 09:51am
Good news indeed. The liberal secularists appear to have done well in the polls.
barring any fighting over the results, the transfer of power or monies that go with these offices...which WILL NOT occur, as Iraq is just like California or post war Japan...
celebrate the victory of the liberal securlarists with me Commanche!
You too LUVVY and JOMAMMA. I will rejoice for the Iraqi people as they usher in the liberal secularists and even some unions.
Now can the troops come home?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 09:57am
Why in hell is anyone treating these reports as definitive? The results of the election won't be known for days. But, if true, for anyone to consider these results as being "good", as does Dreyfus, they simply reflect the power the United States exerts over its puppet Malaki regime and that regime over the Iraqi people. Malaki has all the freedom that Albrecht had in the GDR and the people of Iraq all the freedom that the people of the GDR had under Albrecht.
Posted by john lowell at 02/02/2009 @ 11:06am
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 09:57am
Yikes, Crab. Did RIO consider that???
That the Iraqis might elect LIBERAL SECULARLISTS?!??!?!?!?
LOL
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 11:23am
I would also like to see Iraq become a secular peaceful society for a change...
but my guess is our troops will be for some time...Many are still waiting for our troops to come home from..Germany, Korea,Bosnia....
and it appears we are going into Afganistan deeper...
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 11:46am
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 11:46am
How many Americans troops were killed in Bosnia last week?
Let's combine all JOMMAS listed deployments and add up the number of American troops killed by enemy fire/bombs etc last month, and then compare that to last month in our succesful campaign in Iraq.
Iraq = (only) 16 killed in Iraq.
Bosnia = 0
Japan = 0
Germany = 0
S. Korea = 0
Why look at that, they are exactly the same!
Five years after Japan surrendered, the US was being flooded with "Occuppied Japan" goods.
John, how many "Occupied Iraq" goods do you have floating around your sales inventory?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 12:11pm
Also, John, would you join me in rejoicing that after Saddams removal, trade/labor unions are allowed to form in Iraq?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 12:13pm
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 11:23am
Well, Dear Leader did say he wanted to promote "liberal democracies" in the ME.
so far we have -0.
The most common example of liberal democracy we have in the region is Israel, and they hold 1.2 million people at gunpoint and hold them ALL responsible for the actions of any among them, nor does Israel allow most of those 1.2 million to vote, nor do they want to give them the right to vote lest they lose the Jewish State according to democratic voting results.
I guess we need to invade some more. Let' start with UN resolution violators...oops, that would put the liberal democracy of Israel at the top of the list.
OK, how about undeclared wmd's in storage or under production? Oops, Israel again.
OK, how about those countries that have not invaded other countries...oops, Israel gets left off that list.
I must be an anti-semite.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 12:25pm
Yes, such a success in Iraq!!!
Tell me again how 6 months and 50 billion dollars turned into 6 YEARS and hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars? My, how easily the twisted neo-con slime let themselves forget oh so much!
The delusional Bush dick-lickers are more precious with each passing day.
If we only knew then, what we know now! LOLOL
Posted by TexasFlood at 02/02/2009 @ 12:27pm
"Let's combine all JOMMAS listed deployments and add up the number of American troops killed by enemy fire/bombs etc last month, and then compare that to last month in our succesful campaign in Iraq.
Iraq = (only) 16 killed in Iraq"
Crab,
To count apples and apples, factor in total times we are in a country...
Lets add up their total time there and then compare the numbers..
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 12:30pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 11:46am
Uh, MAASCH...how dangerous was it to walk around Bavaria in 1950? Given a choice would you rather go to Munich 5 years after the Nazi capital fell...
or Anbar 5 years after Baghdad fell?
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 1:05pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 12:30pm
OK, list the number of Americans killed by insurgents in Japan and Germany post 1944.
I'll wait while you look it up.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:06pm
Uh, MAASCH...how dangerous was it to walk around Bavaria in 1950? Given a choice would you rather go to Munich 5 years after the Nazi capital fell...
or Anbar 5 years after Baghdad fell?
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 1:05pm
Neither
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:08pm
Japan and Germany post 1944.
I'll wait while you look it up.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:06pm |
Don't know and don't care.
Also, John, would you join me in rejoicing that after Saddams removal, trade/labor unions are allowed to form in Iraq?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 12:13pm |
sure..why not?
They should be free to choose in a secret ballot.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:11pm
And, while you are at it, list the number of candidates killed in California during their last election. I understand from "your side" that Iraq is no more dangerous than California.
Or post war Germany/Japan.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:11pm
They should be free to choose in a secret ballot.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:11pm
Really? You think that all people have the RIGHT to join a union, and you will stand up and welcome that RIGHT?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:12pm
Don't know and don't care
---
So, you made a statement, but you cannot back it up, but you don't care to back up your pronouncements with any facts? Nor do you care to prove your point?
Would that be anything like claiming that one cannot buy a US made ladder for under $900, because unions have made it IMPOSSIBLE to buy such a ladder. Then when someone shows you a US made ladder that sells for $245, you "don't know and don't care", nor will you change your statement that unions are killing the US ladder industry.
And you can make a statement that MOST Asians vote republican, but when shown that they don't, again, you "don't know and don't care", but will continue to claim that MOST asians vote republican, based on your internal polling, I guess.
do I have this right?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:17pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:08pm
YOU're the one who mentioned Germany, MAASCH. (For Korea, I could also throw in "Would you like to walk around Pusan City, SK in 1957...or Mosul today?")
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 1:21pm
Really? You think that all people have the RIGHT to join a union, and you will stand up and welcome that RIGHT?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:12pm
You really miss read me alot...I am against unions on the principle that they stick people into jobs where they only earn what someone says they get regardless of quality or quantity of work..and one can't fire or make on the fly changes...they are the antithesis of efficiency and productivity and therefore, wealth creating for all as far as I am concerned. They have become political hacks of the dem party.
I have been in a labor union...they are a joke, corrupt, and told me to work slower..and if I didn't join, would destroy my car.
What I have NEVER said is that one should not be allowed to join one if that is what one wants to do. I also said unions destroy incentive for excellence as an individual and the unions have destroyed the public school system.
This differs from you believing I would not allow one to join one...
but I would do everything in my power to keep unions out of any factory I owned.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:30pm
And, while you are at it, list the number of candidates killed in California during their last election. I understand from "your side" that Iraq is no more dangerous than California.
Or post war Germany/Japan.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:11pm
I would say more people killed of the general public in California than in Iraq last week...
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
but I would do everything in my power to keep unions out of any factory I owned.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:30pm
Like Saddam.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
The delusional Bush dick-lickers are more precious with each passing day. If we only knew then, what we know now! LOLOL Posted by TexasFlood
Well at least we now know you are a hate monger!
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 1:44pm
I would say more people killed of the general public in California than in Iraq last week...
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
Got stats?
Last I checked, the Iraqi govt did not keep those stats, so where do you get them.
If Ahnold get's gunned down, do you think that it will get no more notice, or police involvment than the general populace?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:53pm
Abel!!'
Join us, we are celebrating the wins of the liberals, secularists and unions in Iraq!!
Bush done good, eh?
Now, if only we could squash these groups here in the USA!!!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:55pm
Woo Hoo!!
Just had my hours cut by 30%!!!
Must be a mental recession!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:56pm
but I would do everything in my power to keep unions out of any factory I owned.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:30pm
Like Saddam.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
Like German and Japanese companies here..are still in business....
and not like your beloved models...at GM.
A little different than Saddam..don't you think?
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:57pm
Just had my hours cut by 30%!!! Must be a mental recession! Posted by crabwalk
Either that or you are not very good at what you do.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:02pm
Just had my hours cut by 30%!!! Must be a mental recession! Posted by crabwalk
Either that or you are not very good at what you do.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:03pm
Now, if only we could squash these groups here in the USA!!! Posted by crabwalk
Economics and the strength of their ideas will determine their fate.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:12pm
Either that or you are not very good at what you do.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:03pm
I will put this in the column with "no US made ladders for under $900".
I met or exceeded all sales and budgetary goals for 2008, producing revenue of just under $1,000,000. Last week our CEO gave me an "atta boy!", seeking me out on the factory floor to do it (where I was helping people do their job, not mine) . My bosses boss applauded me in a company newsletter two weeks ago, alluding to above sales figures.
This is all after my old boss got canned and he did not get replaced, moving most of his work onto me.
Yep, ABEL, I must SUCK at my job!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:15pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:15pm
You need to have a "come to Jesus" meeting with your boss and renegoiate. You are being taken advantage of if what you say is true..
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 2:20pm
Today the CEO will not return emails asking for a simple confirmation that my hours have been cut. I don't need reasons, excuses, just confirmation.
He is hiding in his office, I checked. I also checked with our controller, the CEO's pay has not been cut. Business is bad, just not bad enough that the CEO needs to notice it in his take home pay.
Funny, that.
The good news is that I have work coming in from own business. Hopefully this will alow me time to grow that portion of my income. Alas, unemployment in MI is above 10%, removing a good chnk of my customers disposable income.
I will be looking for some good galleries if anybody has any ideas.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:22pm
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:02pm
Like a LOT of folks, abell, I may need to know...
what IS your "recession-proof" job? I might need to get one.
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 2:24pm
You are being taken advantage of if what you say is true..
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 2:20
Gee, do you think so?
Tough titties, I work "at will" of the company. Life ain't fair, remember?
BTW, my direct boss took the next two days off. I tracked him down after I heard the rumor and had him verify, but I still wanted to bring it to the attention of the guy that gave me such a solid performance review in front of everyone last week.
Silence.
woe is me.
Life continues. My cup runneth over.
Enough personnal info for now.
Peace all. I am going to go have an expensive glass of beer with last weeks check, enjoy it while I can. I will be canceling orders for some durable goods though.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:28pm
what IS your "recession-proof" job? I might need to get one.
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 2:24pm
So far:
Repo man
Bankruptcy lawyer
Foreclosure expert
Closing up and securing foreclosed toxic assets (formerly called homes)
CEO seems to be pretty recession proof, as does Investment firm executive.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:31pm
Posted by Mask: Maybe the natural inclination of the Iraqis to secularism (under Saddam and before) will hold up.
Oh yes, Saddam was such a sweet guy... Could it be you forgot "free elections" as the main difference?
It is very probable a residual US force of 5-10 thousand will remain long after 16 months for training and support. That would be well within Obama's thinking. It all depends on what the Iraqi military wants and what our military recommends, all based on the situation at the time.
Posted by pyeatte at 02/02/2009 @ 2:32pm
Oh
bomb maker seems to be a good business to be in.
I could work for Bill Ayers or Todd Palin.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:33pm
Posted by pyeatte at 02/02/2009 @ 2:32pm
Reagan was happy with Saddams elections, why can't you be too?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:34pm
CEO seems to be pretty recession proof, as does Investment firm executive.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 2:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Crab - declare yourself a "bank holding company" and apply for TARP money. Hey, American Express did it, why can't you.
Posted by OneVote at 02/02/2009 @ 2:52pm
I would say more people killed of the general public in California than in Iraq last week... Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 1:33pm
so fix your own country.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:54pm
Economics and the strength of their ideas will determine their fate. Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 2:12pm
woo hoo!
noeliberalism is dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:56pm
what IS your "recession-proof" job? I might need to get one. Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 2:24pm
blues musician. works everytime.
(toes crossed).
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:59pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:59pm
Are you willing to wait until you're in your 50s (like BB King) or 70s!!! like Hooker to finally make a living at it?
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 3:01pm
A TARP may be what I am living under soon.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 3:07pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:59pm
COOL!
One thing I can do is lay down some 12 bar low end!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 3:13pm
A TARP may be what I am living under soon.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 3:07pm
Perhaps you are in the stimulus pckage...
What kind of copmpany do you work for that the CEO can hide in his office.
My jewerly job may be tanked too..we are in the middle of a second half buy out by amn Indian comopany..and they are notorious for low pay...
Life ain't fair...I really do not want to see my job evaporate and I do notm think it will, but I do understand the economics behind it and why it may fade away...
I have my export business that is growing but I can not take out money at this point...however, 6 more months and you too, can ask for Edwardo in the islands.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 3:36pm
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 3:01pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cray
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 4:08pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 2:59pm
Are you willing to wait until you're in your 50s (like BB King) or 70s!!! like Hooker to finally make a living at it?
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 3:01pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Serves him right to suffer...heheheh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BtUQbblCWo
Posted by OneVote at 02/02/2009 @ 4:10pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/02/2009 @ 4:08pm
Come on, FROSTY...you know I only want you to be a success.
In fact, I want you and your band to become SO hot and SO rich...
that guys like you will hate you!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 4:54pm
that guys like you will hate you!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 4:54pm
Kid Rock plays some great Blues music on his latest album.
Posted by Benchrest at 02/02/2009 @ 4:57pm
"Indian comopany..and they are notorious for low pay... "
Wondering if you see the irony ....
----
The CEO can hide because my office is miles from his.
I understand the economics of our industry too, not good. However, the company has been offering fairly generous buy out packages rather than quick firings. They have ignored entreaties for some good cost saving measures. They have been pushing more work onto part timers at significant cost savings. And I am running my end of the show, with little help from others.
I mistakenly read that to mean that I was relatively safe.
Silly Human.
I just got done reading a missive from our labor attorney, I can tell he hates unions as much as JOMAMAMA. I think I will float the idea of unionizing, see if the squeaky wheel gets greased, or unbolted and left by the side of the road. hehe.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 5:40pm
"Indian comopany..and they are notorious for low pay... "
Wondering if you see the irony ....
Not much irony here in this case...I sell a commodity and it is proced only so much before sales die....the last few years jewelry had no sales regardless of the economy since the consumer moved on to electronics..
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 5:47pm
Edwardo in the islands.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 3:36pm
Eduardo, mucho stress...lower
Lower...
Lower...
Loowwerrr....
"On top of O'l Smokeee......"
(see "fast times at buddy cianci junior high" if you miss the ref..)
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 5:53pm
I just got done reading a missive from our labor attorney, I can tell he hates unions as much as JOMAMAMA. I think I will float the idea of unionizing, see if the squeaky wheel gets greased, or unbolted and left by the side of the road. hehe.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 5:40pm
In tough times I would suggest to avoid the union issuem since cost would increase immediately to the business when as you say the industry is trying to survive...and my guess your recommendation would be the fastest way to unemployment...
My industry, as is yours is looking to cut costs..not listen to demands to increase them..but hey, if the workers unionise, and the company goes for it...then you know they had a mountauin of cash somewhere...my guess is the don't. will look at the union as the straw that breaks the camels back and take early retirement or close completely defeating everyones interests.
I am highly paid, but also bring in multi millions from goods they were going to melt anyway...so I might survive...but I am sure I am being examined as the buy out completes. I may no longer be viable.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 5:53pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 5:47pm
Didn't you move work over to India a few years ago, from Jersey I thought. Ring polishers?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 5:58pm
Actually, we pay union wages or higher...to keep out unions. For those still working at full time/wage/salary, they are doing fine. All the things you blame on unions, except the violence, we have had in this place. Laziness, inefficiency, removal of incentive..
That is why I laugh when you blame that shit on unions. Now, apparently, even those of us that don't "look like union guys" are going to pay the price for managements ability to overlook those sins for the past 50 years. The layoffs and buyouts have zero to do with competence. Actually we are getting rid of some of our best people, they don't play office politics, they do their job. So, they get to go bye bye.
But, I still love reading about the theories of the free mkt.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 6:04pm
then you know they had a mountauin of cash somewhere.."
The owners have a net worth of BILLIONS...each. I am sure they have a mountain somewhere in that globe of assets.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 6:13pm
The layoffs and buyouts have zero to do with competence. Actually we are getting rid of some of our best people, they don't play office politics, they do their job. So, they get to go bye bye.
But, I still love reading about the theories of the free mkt.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 6:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Like the news that our welfare baby financial institutions applied for 21,800 foreign worker visas, and continued offshoring of jobs by domiciled corporations. Nothing to do with competence - everything thing to do with bottom line morality and a little help from their friends in high places. US workers are supposed to compete with much cheaper foreign labor. You can't win - no way no how till the rules are changed to protect American workers. Not holding my breath.
Posted by OneVote at 02/02/2009 @ 6:17pm
Like a LOT of folks, abell, I may need to know... what IS your "recession-proof" job? I might need to get one. Posted by Mask
Why..... I work for the government just like we all will soon
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 6:37pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 5:47pm
Didn't you move work over to India a few years ago, from Jersey I thought. Ring polishers?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/02/2009 @ 5:58pm
One of the companys I worked for at the time moved the work to India about 10 years ago...before that most jewelery was made in NY and Providence,RI...now almost nothing is..the labor and cost of doing business in NYC plus all the taxes made the entire enterprise void. Couldn't pass on the costs to consumers and importers were getting all the business.
Crab, it is not free market theories..it is real economic life and the reality of the markets, costs, and bottom lines.
No one will risk investement or expand business if returns are not worth the risk...taxes, union labors, materials..everything is boiled down to bottom line...when one worries more about the return OF the investment instead of return ON investment,then you have down turns...
look out the window...here is one for your free market theory...what happens when all the costs and numbers do not add up enough to take a risk for investment...and then you add the fact that the govt is spending money it has yet to print...now you have to find a place for your investment just so it doesn't lose value by dilution of the currency your are holding it in...the last thing you will do is invest in the market since it is worth less today than last week...so you sit it out an wait.
Investors invest....govt spend..when govt talks about "investing" in things..yopu are being lied to..they are spending.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 6:42pm
The delusional Bush dick-lickers are more precious with each passing day. If we only knew then, what we know now! LOLOL Posted by TexasFlood
Well at least we now know you are a hate monger!
Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 1:44pm
Hate?
There's no hate here my boy, just tired of willfully ignorant fools!
"Hate" would mean that I care whether these people live or die!
Posted by TexasFlood at 02/02/2009 @ 6:47pm
Why..... I work for the government just like we all will soon---Posted by abell12ct at 02/02/2009 @ 6:37pm
So you're a hypocritical conservative?
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 10:48pm
Posted by Mask at 02/02/2009 @ 10:48pm
No no no.
He's hypocritical when he's getting paid, just like a conservative.
You almost had it.
Posted by TexasFlood at 02/02/2009 @ 11:12pm
Reagan was happy with Saddams elections, why can't you be too? Posted by crabwalk
Of course, that was during the cold war - East vs West - I am sure you just forgot... When the East fell, a lot of things changed. There were many we supported during that time that quickly fell out of favor. The Ruskies did the same thing - they dropped Castro like a hot rock.
Posted by pyeatte at 02/03/2009 @ 12:23am
I would say more people killed of the general public in California than in Iraq last week...
Posted by YourJomamma
Why no Surge for CA?
Why do we accept the deaths of our own citizens in CA but are concerned with the Iraqi civil war?
Posted by koroviev at 02/03/2009 @ 02:25am
what IS your "recession-proof" job? I might need to get one.
Posted by Mask
Chimney sweep
Nit picker
Bone grubber
Canival geek
Scavenger
Rural child laborer
Mudlark
Posted by koroviev at 02/03/2009 @ 03:14am
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/02/2009 @ 6:42pm
Well, now that you guys have moved so many jobs overseas, where do you expect your customers to get money to buy your cheaper goods? The service industry?
HA!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/03/2009 @ 07:50am
So you're a hypocritical conservative? Posted by Mask
It was a joke.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/03/2009 @ 09:27am
Posted by abell12ct at 02/03/2009 @ 09:27am
Okay...what's the truth?
Again, MANY of us may need a recession-proof job like yours....what is it?
Posted by Mask at 02/03/2009 @ 12:19pm
It was a joke.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/03/2009 @ 09:27am
Oh okay. Whew! I was about to chime in that a government job is far from safe. I work for local government and we are dropping like flies. State workers in CA were either fired or had their income reduced to minimum wage. The reality is that most businesses are getting hit, private & public.
On topic: I'll reserve praise for when the vote-counting is over and verified. No surprise, however, that secular parties were elected.
Posted by k330k at 02/03/2009 @ 12:51pm
Will be good, if it results in national unity and assertion of national right right over Iraq's foreign relations, domestic development, independence, and quick exit of US presence. But then couldn't care less if those were the results of combination any political parties and constituencies, secular or religious or both.
After a generation and more of wars and interventions, time to leave the Iraqi's to work out for themselves what they want their society to be like.
There is something still colonialist Orientalist about Dreyfuss. It is the history and cultural sensibilities of Iraq and that region that matters, not ours. Secular may be progressive, but not necessarily. Religion may be negative, but then maybe not too. Its all about the people there and not us. They are free to find their own way.
Charlie M.
Posted by cmsandia at 02/03/2009 @ 2:27pm
From accounts I have read, both Maliki and Sadr were the big winners. There is a debate over which is the bigger Iranian stooge. Note that Maliki has promised to back Iran in any conflict, including with the US. With both the government and the only real opposition in their pocket, Iran is pretty much in control of Iraq.
The victory of Maliki's party and those others who support his coalition is no surprise. Remember a year ago, polls showed Maliki supporters trailing badly. Soon pro-government goon squads struck out against the opposition, and Maliki proclaimed a security crises illegally postponing the elections. Some democracy!
Posted by MFPhoto at 02/03/2009 @ 6:31pm