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RedditAnger is boiling over in the Middle East over Gaza, and -- exactly as I predicted -- the result of the war has been to boost radicalism throughout the region, to strengthen the terrorist-inclined fanatics of Hamas, and to enhance the muscle of terrorist-inclined Israelis, including far-right parties such as Avigdor Lieberman's Yisrael Beiteinu and, of course, Likud's bombastic Benjamin Netanyahu.
You probably didn't know that the reason the Bush administration, in its last days, reversed course on Gaza is because they feared that US embassies in the Middle East might be stormed by angry crowds if they did nothing. You'll remember that, after weeks of supporting Israel's invasion of Gaza, the United States suddenly reversed course and allowed the UN Security Council to pass a unanimous resolution demanding a ceasefire. (The United States didn't vote yes, but it abstained -- rather than threatening its oft-used veto.)
Speaking on January 14 at the New America Foundation, the outgoing US ambassador to the UN, Zalmay Khalilizad said explicitly that the United States feared a violent explosion in the region, including the seizure of US embassies by angry mobs, if the United States continued to block action by the UN. A central concern, said Khalilzad, is that mosque leaders all over the Middle East would mobilize the anger and direct it against the United States.
Khalilzad, a snake-like and smarmy neoconservative who served as George Bush's ambassador to both Afghanistan and Iraq, said that the normal procedure at the UN Security Council is for the United States to work patiently, behind the scenes, to neutralize Arab-led efforts to produce a UNSC resolution opposing Israel -- and, he told the NAF gathering, this usually works fine. Grinning and joking about it, and touting his own cleverness, Khalilzad added that this time was different:
"What happened with this particular resolution is that there was a judgment made by our government that, after so many days of fighting, that given the pressure that the moderate Arabs were facing, and given that the Arabs were willing to accept a reasonable resolution, ... [we needed] a reasonable resolution that emphasized a durable ceasefire ..."Given the Friday prayers that were coming -- this was Thursday we are talking about -- the fear was that if there was no resolution by the Security Council ... by the prayer time, in the broader Middle East, that there would be embassies overrun, there would be a huge amount of violence. There was a lot of Egyptian and French diplomacy going on, and perhaps waiting ... might have been a good idea, if the mosque issue was not a factor."
In case you think the anger against Israel and the United States among the Arabs is limited to Hamas and Hezbollah, consider the stunning comments of Saudi Prince Turki al-Faisal, the former head of Saudi Arabia's intelligence service, who also served as the country's ambassador to both Great Britain and the United States:
"In the past weeks, not only have the Israeli Defence Forces murdered more than 1,000 Palestinians, but they have come close to killing the prospect of peace itself. Unless the new US administration takes forceful steps to prevent any further suffering and slaughter of Palestinians, the peace process, the US-Saudi relationship and the stability of the region are at risk. ..."America is not innocent in this calamity. Not only has the Bush administration left a sickening legacy in the region – from the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to the humiliation and torture at Abu Ghraib – but it has also, through an arrogant attitude about the butchery in Gaza, contributed to the slaughter of innocents. If the US wants to continue playing a leadership role in the Middle East and keep its strategic alliances intact – especially its "special relationship" with Saudi Arabia – it will have to drastically revise its policies vis a vis Israel and Palestine."
These sentiments, that sort of anger, are virtually unprecedented coming from a top Saudi leader. He went on to suggest a possible Saudi alliance with Iran -- yes, Iran! -- in support of a jihad against Israel:
"Last week, President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad of Iran wrote a letter to King Abdullah, explicitly recognising Saudi Arabia as the leader of the Arab and Muslim worlds and calling on him to take a more confrontational role over 'this obvious atrocity and killing of your own children' in Gaza. The communiqué is significant because the de facto recognition of the kingdom's primacy from one of its most ardent foes reveals the extent that the war has united an entire region, both Shia and Sunni. Further, Mr Ahmadi-Nejad's call for Saudi Arabia to lead a jihad against Israel would, if pursued, create unprecedented chaos and bloodshed in the region."So far, the kingdom has resisted these calls, but every day this restraint becomes more difficult to maintain."
So: a top US official says that American embassies were on the verge of being "overrun" by mobs, and a top Saudi official warns that his government is finding it hard to resist a "jihad" along with Iran. Heckuva job, Olmerty.
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Robert Dreyfuss
A chronicle of America's adventures in foreign policy and national security.
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(The United States didn't vote yes, but it abstained -- rather than threatening its oft-used veto.)
ms. rice drafts it.
olmert calls.
bush yessirs.
rice looks like idiot.
just one more example........
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 1:38pm
and oil,
let me tell you..........
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 1:55pm
"Anger is boiling over in the Middle East over Gaza, and -- exactly as I predicted -- the result of the war has been to boost radicalism throughout the region, to strengthen the terrorist-inclined fanatics of Hamas, and to enhance the muscle of terrorist-inclined Israelis."
Get ready to be raked over the coals by BOTH sides, Mr Dreyfuss.
Lvlib and SJCHER for your attack on Israel....syfriendly and CripThink for your attack on Hamas.
Which means you probably got it about 99% correct.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2009 @ 1:57pm
Anger is boiling over in the Middle East over Gaza, and -- exactly as I predicted -- the result of the war has been to boost radicalism throughout the region, to strengthen the terrorist-inclined fanatics of Hamas, and .."
Yup, that has been the goal of Hamas all along...
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:31pm
And the BBC reports today that Olmert has publicly promised the Israeli military that the Israeli govt will protect all military active in the Gaza seige & invasion from any war crimes charges.
Haven't seen mention of this in the NYTimes yet.
Or heard any comment from the Obama govt.
Posted by sloper at 01/25/2009 @ 2:35pm
"The United States didn't vote yes, but it abstained -- rather than threatening its oft-used veto.) """
Isn't this the same as voting, "PRESENT", which has been lauded as a viture and an example of independent thinking and leadership?
How about Deyfuss write an article on all the times the UN offered up and passed a resolution dermanding Hamas stop launching rockets into Israel....perhaps during the year of launches BEFORE Israel responded to Hamas?
Maybe we could talk to a snake-like lib in Hamas?
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:39pm
Iran and Saudi Arabia are very concerned about the area in the Mideast, alright,..concered about stability.....
the stability of oil prices as they pass through $34 a barrel.
Now is the time to drill and pump as much as we can from everywhere else and help break the Islamic oil monopoly it has on the world.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:45pm
Now is the time to drill and pump as much as we can from everywhere else and help break the Islamic oil monopoly it has on the world. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009
Jomamma, Hey, I though you are the economic guru on the panel, wait a second, Am I mistaken you with The Happy One with Long Horn?
You should have seen the report on 60 Minutes last Sunday (60 Minutes is not a subsidy of the Saudi Broadcasting Corporation). Any ways, 60 Minutes claimed that all the gouging and illegal fixing of oil prices has nothing to do with supply and demand or the Arabs. It laid the blame fair and square at the feet of your cousins, the oil speculators, on Wall Street. I do appreciate the fact that your handlers demand that you adhere to a strict propaganda; but the propaganda should have a shred of believability.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 3:12pm
Under every rock their is a Palestinian/Israeli Jew.
They are in the process of exonerating the executioners involved in the Gaza Massacre.
Posted by ehross at 01/25/2009 @ 3:20pm
Yup, that has been the goal of Hamas all along... Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:31pm
Jomamma,
It proves to me again that you are either a junior member of the Israeli Propaganda Machine; or a naïve Zionist. The Savagery committed by Israel in Gaza was purposely planned and executed by the shrewd Zionist Leaders of Israel. The enormity of the Israeli war crimes in Gaza have been intended to create so much anger, and thus sabotage any serious efforts toward peace by the incoming Obama Administration. The Israelis are in no mood to relinquish their Jewish settlements or to yield to any serious peace initiative and they will do their damn best abort such initiative before its birth. Just recently, the US joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mullen went to Israel to warn the Zionists not to fake a false flag incident with Iran. General Mullen used the term "there won't by another Liberty incident". He was signaling to the Israelis that the US will not accept a fabricated attack by Israeli agents in the Persian Gulf against a US ship to drag America into a confrontation with Iran. When it comes to propaganda and shrewdness, the Israelis have, undoubtly, taken a page from the Nazis' book.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 3:59pm
The Palestinian issue can easily be resolved by the Arab leaders of the filthy rich countries, such as Saudi Arabia and UAE, by extending an offer to the Palestinians to simply migrate to their countries and start a new life there.
The rich Arab countries can provide many incentives to the Palestinians and help them establish in their countries.
Let Israel take whatever land it needs, Gaza, the West Bank, etc., and if this triggers the coming of the Messiah, as many believe, even better!
This is not ethnic cleansing; rather, a practical resolution to a problem that has cost so many lives and resources, over what? A small piece of land!
Even Israel can chip in and spend money on the relocation that will otherwise be spent on arms, in return for peace and multi-lateral relationships.
With peace and multi-lateral trade, and the Palestinians settled in the Arab countries as an integral part of their societies, the amount of money and human resources, and lives, that are being wasted on this conflict will be enormous!
Why, for example, Jordan not considered a Palestinian state is beyond me! After all, the Queen of Jordan is a Palestinian, as are probably half of Jordanians.
People do migrate to other parts of the planet for better lives. Even that Palestinian doctor who worked in an Israeli hospital and who lost 3 daughters in Gaza, was shown on TV to be relieved and happy that despite all of what he has lost, he is looking forward to migrating to Canada.
The Arab leaders need to stop blaming the others and admit that they themselves have not done enough to help the Palestinians.
... and I have stated the above as a Muslim!
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:04pm
"The communiqué is significant because the de facto recognition of the kingdom's primacy from one of its most ardent foes reveals the extent that the war has united an entire region, both Shia and Sunni."
Iran's recognition of Saudi in this context is very significant. For myriad reasons; neo con attempts to peel off certain parts of the region so as to use them as a wedge against Iran just got harder, if not disappeared into the kool-aid induced smoke from whence it came.
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 4:07pm
the saddest part of Mr. Dreyfuss's article and overall view of the region is the fact he chooses to ignore that Israel is a recognized member of the UN who has been forced to deal with daily terrorist attacks by recognized terrorist groups. The groups primary objective is the destruction of Israel and death to all jews and israelis. They can't be reasoned with, negotiated with or appeased. all they want is death. when they receive it they cry war crimes and Mr. Dreyfuss and his followers root them on.
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:12pm
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:04pm
quagmire,
Attention shall not be paid to Zionist who lose temper and go out of control. Why do Palestinians have to go to Saudi Arabia or Jordan? It would be much convenient for the Jewish settlers to go back to Brooklyn, Warsaw or Russia; these were the places of their birth.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 4:21pm
Cripthink,
before the Israelis bought and developed the land, the palestinians didn't want it. only when they saw what they had given up did they cry foul. YOu were correct though in calling them settlers. They settled the land and made it into a thriving country with the purest democracy in the world with no oppressed groups except for the jewish radicals and terrorists who seek to destroy it.
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:12pm
Posted by HAPPYLonghorn at 01/25/2009 @ 4:14pm
Once upon a time, when ships would come in to port, the sailors would put someone on deck so as to help the people on shore to discern that they, the people on board, were in fact living humans and not ghosts...
The tone (read, abject blindness) of the referenced posts show pretty much the same level cognitive acclimation, of those long ago land lovers.
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
You are either lying and or incredibly ignorant, in any case doubtless imbibe information based on emotional support of your prejudices, alone...
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 4:35pm
level of ... and as those. :-)
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 4:37pm
CripThink,
We have tried everything else, except what I have suggested.
The Arabs simply have not done much for the Palestinians, and they have got the money and plenty of land, to at least offer to the Palestinians.
I would be very surprised if the Palestinians were offered an incentive, say $500,000 - $1.5 M, depending on the size of the family, to relocate to a better place, that too many would refuse it.
Imagine a modern colony built in Egypt for the Gazans. Better housing, jobs, security, education, etc., that they wouldn't take it.
This is money better spent than spending it on arms and artificial islands in Dubai.
Is the loss of life, money and energy over such a small piece of land worth it?
Anyway, I thought what I proposed needed to be conveyed.
And again, I am a Muslim, whose brain is supposed to be wired to be anti-Jewish and anti-U.S.
But it is not.
I have reflected on the situation for a few decades and I see no other practical solution.
Many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli, will be saved if my solution were to be adopted.
Take care,
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:42pm
They settled the land and made it into a thriving country with the purest democracy in the world Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
spinless,
If you let me take over your home, I will promise you that I will make it look much better than it does now. If you really care about democracy; than would you kindly ask you friends at AIPAC to stop corrupting our American Democracy by bribing our Congress on behalf of Israel? Of course when you say the Purist Democracy; you are alluding to democracy for Jews only.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 4:49pm
Mr. Dreyfuss - thanks for all this information. I hadn't seen it anywhere else. I agree with what you seem to indicate, that the psychological and political impact of what Israel just did in Gaza is wildly underestimated or simply not understood.
Posted by syfriendly at 01/25/2009 @ 4:49pm
Which means you probably got it about 99% correct. Posted by Mask at 01/25/2009 @ 1:57pm
Yes. I'd say that about sums it up.
Posted by ficheye at 01/25/2009 @ 4:51pm
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2009 @ 1:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Would you shut up about me? You don't know anything about me and you certainly havent read much of anything I wrote. Again, like clockwork, there you are making shitty comments about people while contributing absolutely nothing of your own. Just shut about me. I don't know who you think you are to mischaracterize people who actually have some information about a subject and an actual opinion on it. You're just some desperately needy little weirdo who hangs around on these pages looking for ways to jab at people to get attention you need - again, just shut up about me, and quit your creepy little mischaracterizations. Honestly, I don't know how you can stand yourself, given the "life" you have apparently made for yourself here.
Posted by syfriendly at 01/25/2009 @ 4:55pm
democracy for jews...
cripthink
there was no take over. the land was swamp and desert. it was bought and paid for with money and then blood in many wars. the other arab countries left the palestinians out in the cold to fight Israel and keep their hands relatively clean. Israeli/arabs have a voice in Israel and have never been subjected to threats of death or imprisonment for voicing their opinions. By the way, doesn't take a lot of bribing to get congress to support our only friend in the region. Try to get all the arab 'charities' and countries to stop supporting terrorism world wide in the name of Jihad.
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:58pm
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:42pm
Sure quagmire,
Can you please set up your commission for brokering such a wonderful proposal of mass deportation for the Palestinians, assuming that you are the real benevolent Muslim you claim to be? By the way, it happened that I have just heard similar proposal from your Muslim Sister Tzipi Livni.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 5:02pm
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:58pm
spinless,
I hate to turn this discussion into a classroom for junior Zionists and Israeli propagandists. Your claim was once made by the Zionist Golda Meir; she claimed that Jews didn't have a land and that they came across a land without people in Palestine and took over it. Then Golda Meir and her Terrorist Organizations (The Stern Gang, The Irgun and Haganah) went on slaughtering and terrorizing hundred of thousands of Palestinians for the next 15 years. Your democratic friends in Israel have just banned Arab Parties from the election to the Israeli Knesset. Was the recent Israeli murderous attack on Gaza an example of the Jewish Jihad? The Israelis have murdered 1400 Palestinians and wounded 5400; more than half of them are women and children. Is this part of the democracy and civility that Israel is bragging about introducing to the Middle East?
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 5:27pm
IMHO, it's a better use of the comment section to discuss current events rather than hashing out the long, sordid history of the conflict. My point here, as syfriendly notes, is to provide some news you might not have read elsewhere. It seems vitally important to me that a chief consideration of the Bush team, in allowing the UNSC vote to go forward, was to prevent violence and US embassies being "overrun," as Khalilzad states.
It's equally amazing that Turki al-Faisal said what he said (in an op-ed in the Financial Times, by the way).
As for spinless' comment, in regard to Hamas, that "Mr. Dreyfuss and his followers root them on," well, I guess he missed the part where I called Hamas "fanatical" and "terrorist-inclined."
Posted by dreyfuss at 01/25/2009 @ 5:39pm
Posted by dreyfuss at 01/25/2009 @ 5:39pm
Mr. Dreyfuss,
I do in general agree with the line you are advocating in your posting. One clarification is needed if you may: Can anyone point to a single act of violence committed by Hamas against anyone other than the Israeli occupation?
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 5:51pm
Posted by dreyfuss at 01/25/2009 @ 5:39pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Its shocking to me that you would read these comments. I, for one, think that I am done, my brief career of engaging with these pages lasting about as long as Israel's war on the people of Gaza. I don't envy you your audience, you seem far too professional and serious to be expended this way.
Posted by syfriendly at 01/25/2009 @ 5:58pm
"there was no take over. the land was swamp and desert."
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:58pm
That, along with the resat of your post is simply out and out, a lie... So, unless you actually enjoy coming of as one of the abjectly uninformed, may haps you should rectify that by becoming informed.
The above, giving you the benefit of the doubt that the untruth's (though virulent) you share are not done so willfully.
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 6:21pm
"Khalilzad, a snake-like and smarmy neoconservative who served as George Bush's ambassador..."
Lol, I'm sorry, but I just had to say that's so fitting a description with this guy. Khalilzad, Wolfowitz, Perle, Dubya, Cheney (the Penguin, to add to the animal metaphors here) and others at the Project for a New American Century had a dystopian vision of the region and it involved Pax Americana and Eretz Israel uber alles. Their allies are the aforementioned Netanyahu (another even more smarmy snake if it's possible) and the 'center' to center-right in Israel (basically most of Labor, Likud and Kadima). Their vision is one of domination, intimidation and captive markets. It is also one of forced alliances and oil security/dependence. Of course, the Saudis talk big, but are too closely tied to this country economically to ever do anything. They rely on US arms to maintain their dictatorial monarchy after all.
The Palestinians fight back and we hear in the MSM how they are all terrorists and that Hamas is hiding (of course the IDF hides in tanks and armored carriers and from afar bombards the region, but this is 'brave' apparently) as Hezbollah hid. Maybe the O admin. will change our policy of backing only the Israelis and finally put an end to this conflict we have no business helping to continue. O's mention of the Arab League proposal is a good start (hell, it's the only fair start as you can't ask the Israelis, they'll just say they want everything they can get their hands on). American involvement has clearly made things worse in the region, BUT, again, waiting to see what O's got up his sleeve. His appointment of Mitchell (rather than the odious Dennis Ross) is an okay start, BUT not necessarily a guarantee of significant change.
Posted by nukemind at 01/25/2009 @ 6:24pm
of = off ... sheesh (a tad out of practice)
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 6:25pm
To the ironically named spinless who claims: "the land was swamp and desert. it was bought and paid for with money and then blood in many wars."
Uh no it was not. It was inhabited by Muslim Arabs (the majority), Christians (largest minority) and Levantine Jews (not the imperialists from Europe) and others such as the Druze. Every corner had people and industry. Only a scant 15% of UN-designated Israel was owned by the Zionists. So you're either lying or you are another propagandist who 'reads' Zionist sites and spews their nonsense derived from other liars like Joan Peters (who was revealed to be a fraud and her work is mocked by Israeli academics by the way).
Interesting that land taken through war implies ownership. Shouldn't be a problem if one day in the future when we can't help Israel and foreign armies march in and take it over. Fine civilized world you envision there.
Posted by nukemind at 01/25/2009 @ 6:29pm
The Palestinian issue can easily be resolved by the Arab leaders of the filthy rich countries, such as Saudi Arabia and UAE, by extending an offer to the Palestinians to simply migrate to their countries and start a new life there.
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:04pm |
Well, actually, that is exactly what the Israelis have been hoping would have happened by now. Of course, this isn't just about 'wealth', it is about justice, which will be lost if Israel gets its way. I'm not in any way backing the rich Arab states (who don't share much with their citizens so why would we imagine them doing more for Palestinians?), but how is it their responsibility? Speaking the same language (different dialects and regional history though) does not make them responsible. The perpetrators are responsible, Israel and this just lets them off the hook. They came there and disenfranchised the local population and have been pushing the region to 'accept' Israel on their terms: Israel keeps Jerusalem, large (if not most) of the WB and perhaps parts of Gaza. I didn't even mention Israel's illegal hold on the Shabaa Farms and Golan. I would also argue that time is not on Israel's side. Demographics will change things and they will lose badly if they don't jump at the only fair peace deal on the table, the Arab League proposal that will end this conflict fairly and equitably for both everyone.
Posted by nukemind at 01/25/2009 @ 6:37pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/25/2009 @ 6:44pm
It is over you piece of sh*t lvl, the time for lawless thugs like you arresting people for expressing their views is over. The tyranny of the constitution's violators (Bush, Ashcroft, Cheney, and Chertof) has just ended, if you haven't noticed. So if you have something profound say it, or shut up.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 7:08pm
of = off ... sheesh (a tad out of practice)
Posted by V at 01/25/2009 @ 6:25pm
It doesn't make any difference V. You are still seriously in need of someone to explain what truths you are attempting to convey. Please remember we are earthlings (most of us anyway).
Posted by lrjones4 at 01/25/2009 @ 7:14pm
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 3:12pm
Yes, speculators are the ruse of oil prices this year...not the Arabs..supply and demand has been the issdue as India and China hve quntupuled their demands...however, I do agree that speculators have given us the shaft as opposed to the oil companies...and now the speculators are getting the shaft back to them...
My point is the Iranians and the Saudis prefer distress in the ar43ea to keep prices high...truth is, at $ 35 a barrel they are in big finacial trouble...for the Iranians have no real economy since the Shah was ousted. t6he mullahs have killed off all real economic activity and no refineries.....and the Saudis spend like kids in a candy store...Good, lets drasin them of oil and their cash...when that is gone...and they are broke roight now..jihad will go away too, since the entire region will slip into obscurity...as it has for the last time 6th century man in the area decided to make a world move..
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:09pm
Crippled,
The Arabs(Palestinians) seem to have missed the entire key to their desires in Israelwhen it is right in front of them..
Their birth rate...
They can do the same to Israel as the Muslims are doing to Europe and the Mexicans are doing to the US...
enter the country or live there and breed like crazy...Europe is hitting 25% Islamic soon, and US is hitting 35% Hispanic...PLUS..they are draining the social system of cash and resources while putting nothing back in of equal or greater values...plus being illiterate in their own language, the added pressure of the host country to "help" them is over bearing...
..add to this the fact that the liberals in the host country actually sue in court to give the invaders(un resticted and illegal immigrants) more rights than the host citizens, like push 1 for English and native language voting ballots, in state tuition...it won't take long and the Israelis will be voted out of their own country..legaly...
learn from the Muslims in Europe and the Mexicans in the US how to invaded, destroy and take over a more sophisticated and wealthy society using their own wealth, productivity, generosity, and the local liberals against the locals in their own country, combined with the gigantic birth rates...victory with out a shot being fired..
Cheaper than missles, putting up with Mullahas and 6 th century thinking, and it all evoles around...sex....PLUS with multiple wives, concubines, no pesky equal rights for women.....look out..!!!
PRESTO..PARADISE IN THE HOLY LAND..NO MORE BOMBERS!!!
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
Talk, Talk, Talk
To support the Palestinian Jews you are a racist as they are.
Posted by ehross at 01/25/2009 @ 8:28pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:09pm
Jomamma,
I am no defender of the Saudis or Iranians; they don't do much for the Palestinians. I am outraged at your implied deception that Arabs are the manipulators of the prices of oil. This crab has no statistical support. If you want to spread propaganda; do so intelligently.
When are you going to summon enough courage to admit that those Jewish billionaires who send their billions to help the Jihadist Jewish settlers grab more land from the Palestinians are equally guilty?
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 8:28pm
Now is the time to drill and pump as much as we can from everywhere else and help break the Islamic oil monopoly it has on the world. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:45pm
where does the u.s. get it's oil from?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 8:36pm
Jomamma, It proves to me again that you are either a junior member of the Israeli Propaganda Machine; or a naïve Zionist.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 3:59pm
more like an anachronism.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 8:37pm
CripThink,
You ask " Can anyone point to a single act of violence committed by Hamas against anyone other than the Israeli occupation? "
Yes. Against the Palestinian people.
Hamas places rockets in civilian areas, knowing that it would eventually draw Israeli fire back, killing innocents.
Hamas then parades the bodies of the dead innocents before international television crews, and other sympathetic people such as that idiot U.N. Rapporteur mentioned by The Nation a few weeks ago, claiming the Israelis are guilty of murder.
If there is one group that Hamas enjoys killing more than Jews, it is Palestinians.
If there is one group that
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 8:39pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
Jomamma,
An unrepentant racist jerk like you is analogous to a wrapped dog tail; you can stretch it for years, but you can never make it straight. So why don't you use on Arabs and Mexicans the "Final Solution" medicine used by Hitler on your ancestors? would that solve your racist urgency? Isn't this what the Zionists have been using all along to exterminate the Palestinians?
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 8:43pm
quagmire_99 has proposed a reasonable solution, CripThink has thrown cold water on it.
Kind of like what is going on over in the Middle East, anytime one of these peace processes gets started.
For years and years now this situation keeps going on and on and on, with no resolution.
It is my contention that the Arab world wants no resolution other than no Israel. Any public statement otherwise (agreement Israel has a right to exist) does not appear to be a genuine reflection of what they really want.
The only person it seems who acted otherwise in all these years in Anwar Sadat.
There were no other Anwar Sadats back then, except himself, and there are no Anwar Sadats now.
Anwar Sadat himself is of course, dead, killed by people angry at him for trying to promote peace.
Maybe it is time to give up on peace processes and go for the opposite.
Mr. Dreyfuss comments about how " These sentiments, that sort of anger, are virtually unprecedented coming from a top Saudi leader. He went on to suggest a possible Saudi alliance with Iran -- yes, Iran! -- in support of a jihad against Israel: "
With Obama as president it won't happen, but since this whole situation has not resolved itself through peace processes, maybe it is time to say that if the Saudis, Iran, Palestinians, want jihad, then bring it on!
Without the Soviets around to worry about, maybe it is time to get this over once and for all, if jihad comes then we could go over there and kick ass and get this thing done with, before Iran gets their nuke.
This has gone on long enough and nothing is gained by letting it fester any longer.
It would kind of be like when on Walker, Texas Ranger, when Walker and Trivette show up to take on drug lords and they good guys (Walker and Trivette) prevail.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 8:56pm
Even Israel can chip in and spend money on the relocation
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:04pm
or maybe the israelis could get on planes and go home instead.
sheesh.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:01pm
Mr. Dreyfuss got his exposition very wrong: Go now to DEBKA's site and you will see the very rough treatment given the Hamas delegation by Egypt over terms of the cease-fire to be enacted, or not. The anger or lack of it in the world or the UN about Israel's actions and the United States' supposed blank endorsement of them, has to be worked out in Egypt. And Egypt despises Hamas, and what they represent as an Iranian cat's paw in the region. They, the Egyptians passively helped Israel by keeping the Rafah crossing closed during the Gaza operation and apparently, conveyed, just hours before Israel was to rout Hamas' forces that they wanted the op to stop. Israel complied! Far from this being an event that world opinion or the UN has any constructive influence on or conspired to thwart by raising its anti-Semitic voice, the actual participants themselves are dealing with the aftermath just fine. While 5 million people have died in the Congo in the last 10 years and hundreds of thousands in Darfur and nearly 7,000 in Mexico's drug wars last year, one Saudi faction amony many decided to vent itself of the standard anti-Israeli rhetoric about the more than 1,000 Palestinians dead, 3/4 of whom were Hamas foot soldiers and deserved their death, and THIS is the basis for concluding that Arabs have taken all they can bear from Israel. This thing will not play out as another swing at Israel when the primary beneficiaries are the Saudis, Egyptians and Jordanians. More nuance next time, please.
Posted by kgoldfisher at 01/25/2009 @ 9:03pm
before the Israelis bought and developed the land, the palestinians didn't want it.
Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
hmmmm.
you need to talk to ibrahim.
he went back to his "house" after forty years.
he said the people living there were nice, but he really missed it.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:05pm
My last post ought to get sparks flying beyond belief on this thread!
But we go round and round and round on this subject on these threads on The Nation, in the same manner that the world goes round and round and round on this with no resolution, and people continue to suffer and die.
Israel has a right to exist. If you look on a map and if you see how small the area is that is greater Israel (pre-1967 borders) and see that despite public statements otherwise, except for Anwar Sadat the goal is now and always has been no Israel - not a return to pre-1967 borders but no Israel period - with no intention by those who believe this to change their minds - and how obvious it is how WRONG that sentiment is - then you can see how frustrating this whole thing is.
I don't have the solution - somehow people who believe Israel has no right to exist and have basically been unwilling to work out any compromise otherwise - and who have never been required to by world opinion - need to be made to understand that and change their minds and actions.
quagmire_99 proposed a solution. CripThink says no.
Basically the words "CripThink" and "Palestinian leadership, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic jihad, Arab countries and leadership" mean the same thing.
So maybe the solution is to give the people over there that are "CripThinks" a swift kick in the ass, to change their attitude.
And do it before Iran gets their nuke.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 9:07pm
and i state all of this as a human!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:07pm
oh, and where should the palestinian christians go?
i know, disneyworld!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:08pm
oh little town of bethlehem......
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:09pm
We have tried everything else, except what I have suggested.
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:42pm
really.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:10pm
Try to get all the arab 'charities' and countries to stop supporting terrorism world wide in the name of Jihad. Posted by spinless at 01/25/2009 @ 4:58pm
and where was this "jihad" say, sixty years ago?
didn't think so....
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:12pm
Can you please set up your commission for brokering such a wonderful proposal of mass deportation for the Palestinians, assuming that you are the real benevolent Muslim you claim to be? By the way, it happened that I have just heard similar proposal from your Muslim Sister Tzipi Livni.
Posted by CripThink at 01/25/2009 @ 5:02pm
send 'em to alaska!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:13pm
The idea that Israel has a right to exist is no different from saying Charles Manson deserves his freedom.
The sane world wants to vomit at the mere mention of Israel. No person of conscience can muster the slightest sympathy for them.
Posted by rykart at 01/25/2009 @ 9:17pm
And some people might say if we do what I said then they would cut off the oil.
But we should just go and grab it and take it.
That is what some that post on this site proclaim we do anyway (even though we don't).
Claims appear here that America is imperialist. Posters obsess that Europeans do not approve of what we do.
All this even though America is not imperialist and the Europeans are wrong about a lot of things.
So if the claims of imperialism and wrong appear anyway, even though they are unwarranted, then we might as well do what we are accused of to begin with.
Maybe one wild donnybrook over there would fix things where diddling and fiddling with peace processes have not.
Make Chuck Norris(Walker) President, Clarence Gilyard (Trivette) Vice-President and let them direct things and the world will be better off.
And do it before Iran gets their nuke, and kick Iran's ass so they never ever will get a nuke.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 9:18pm
It seems the nation pages have been taken over by terrorist supporters and lovers of jihad against innocent women and children whether they be Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. There is little doubt that Syfriendly and Cripthinks are acting as mouthpieces for terrorist groups or terrorist sympathizers. I wonder how long before one of them is arrested for a plot to commit terror in the US or for their financial support of terrorist organizations. Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/25/2009 @ 6:44pm
larry, you're becoming a tired cliché.
innocent children?
haven't you glowing stated your work on CLUSTERBOMBS!?!?!?!??!?
my god.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:20pm
rykart just proved my point, as to why maybe what I propose is unfortunately, necessary.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 9:21pm
My point is the Iranians and the Saudis prefer distress in the ar43ea to keep prices high...
•• uh, you forgot the THE BOYS OF HOUSTON.
truth is, at $ 35 a barrel they are in big finacial trouble...
•• hey, rubber's rubber.
for the Iranians have no real economy since the Shah was ousted.
•• BRING BACK THE DESPOT!
t6he mullahs have killed off all real economic activity and no refineries.....
•• you should be in charge.
and the Saudis spend like kids in a candy store...
•• yeah, BUYING T-BILLS so you can invade at will.
Good, lets drasin them of oil and their cash...
•• where does u.s. oil come from? where?
when that is gone...and they are broke roight now..jihad will go away too, since the entire region will slip into obscurity...as it has for the last time 6th century man in the area decided to make a world move..
•• john, i appreciate your trying, but you are truly clueless.\
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:09pm |
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:26pm
john maasch,
you are lost:
European Muslim Population
General Source Country Total Population in 2006 Muslim Percentage Muslim Population in 2006 Northern Europe Denmark 5.40 3.02 0.16 Estonia 1.3 0.70 0.01 Finland 5.20 0.18 0.01 Iceland 0.30 0.04 Ireland 4.1 0.01 Latvia 2.30 0.38 0.01 Lithunia 3.4 0.14 Norway 4.60 1.04 0.05 Sweden 9.00 3.10 0.28 United Kingdom 60.1 2.50 1.51 Western Europe Austria 8.20 2.23 0.19 Belgium 10.5 3.60 0.38 France 60.7 10.00 6.12 Germany 82.5 3.70 3.05 Leichtenstein 0.04 3.43 0.00 Luxembourg 0.50 1.10 0.01 Monaco 0.03 0.50 0.00 Netherlands 16.3 5.40 0.89 Switzerland 7.4 3.10 0.23 Eastern Europe Belarus 9.8 0.10 0.01 Bulgaria 7.7 11.87 0.91 Czech Rep. 10.20 0.20 0.02 Hungary 10.10 0.10 0.01 Moldova 4.2 0.20 0.01 Poland 38.2 0.10 0.04 Romania 21.60 1.00 0.22 Russia 143.0 19.00 27.04 Slovakia 5.40 0.02 Ukraine 47.1 0.45 0.21 Southern Europe Albenia 3.2 70.00 2.24 Andora 0.10 0.63 0.00 Bosnia Herzegovenia 3.9 60.06 2.34 Croatia 4.4 3.00 0.13 Greece 11.1 1.50 0.17 Italy 59 2.40 1.42 Macedonia 2.0 30.00 0.60 Malta 0.40 1.10 Portugal 10.6 0.50 0.05 San Marino 0.03 Slovenia 2.00 1.55 0.03 Spain 45.5 1.20 0.55 Yugoslavia(Serbia & Montenegro 10.1 19.00 2
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:31pm
Why am I frustrated?
It is as I said above:
quagmire_99 proposed a solution. CripThink says no.
Someone may ask, so what, those are just blog posts?
But as I said also, these blog posts reflect the same thing that is going on over there (the Middle East)
And the "CripThinks" over there behave the same way the CripThink over here behaves.
And the "CripThinks" over there have no more interest in peace than the CripThink over here does.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 9:33pm
They can do the same to Israel as the Muslims are doing to Europe and the Mexicans are doing to the US...
•• go on.....
enter the country or live there and breed like crazy...
•• how many brothers and sisters do you have?
Europe is hitting 25% Islamic soon,
•• AND THEY EAT CHILDREN.
and US is hitting 35% Hispanic...
•• do you know who santa ana was?
PLUS..they are draining the social system of cash and resources while putting nothing back in of equal or greater values...
•• fuckin' spics.
plus being illiterate in their own language,
•• coming from captain typo, that is insulting.
the added pressure of the host country to "help" them is over bearing...
•• EAT THEM.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:33pm
We have a very curious situation. On the one hand, there is the conflict on the ground..a conflict in which the Israelis hold all the cards and lord their omnipotent power over caged, terrified and defenseless people.
On the other hand, we have the debate about this catastrophe, and here, the situation is precisely reversed..it is Israel (and her nauseating spokespeople) who are totally defenseless, lacking any ammunition whatsoever, (apart from transparent lies and infantile accusations of anti-Semitism).
Posted by rykart at 01/25/2009 @ 9:38pm
I am not surprised that so called "Moderate" Arab states would feel a good deal of pressure from the Arab street. Even the most repressive regime needs to pay attention to ordinary people and their opinions. I think we need to get use to the idea that organizations like Hamas may be running many Middle Eastern countries. Saudi Arabia is not run by screaming liberals, and we still got along with them for a very long time. Saudi Arabia is our oldest Middle Eastern ally and not Israel. Our relationship with the Saudis preceded the foundation of Israel.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 01/25/2009 @ 9:41pm
..add to this the fact that the liberals in the host country actually sue in court to give the invaders(un resticted and illegal immigrants) more rights than the host citizens,
•• WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF-EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL, THAT THEY ARE ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN UNALIENABLE RIGHTS, THAT AMONG THESE ARE LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
like push 1 for English and native language voting ballots,
•• i think sioux would be a much better choice.
in state tuition...
•• wouldn't want to educate the spics........
it won't take long and the Israelis will be voted out of their own country..
•• how ironic that will be.
legaly...
•• illiterate.
learn from the Muslims in Europe and the Mexicans in the US how to invaded,
•• how to invadeD? tell us howD
destroy and take over a more sophisticated and wealthy society using their own wealth,
•• POMPOUS ASS.
productivity, generosity, and the local liberals against the locals in their own country,
•• the locals?!?!??!?? so liberals attack the sioux in the u.s. and arabs in israel????????????
combined with the gigantic birth rates...
•• how many brothers and sisters do you have?
victory with out a shot being fired..
•• fucking for jihad
Cheaper than missles,
•• cheaper than measles. that worked in the americas.
putting up with Mullahas
•• or putting up with bombastic gringos.
and 6 th century thinking,
•• no way! only 0th century thinking for us.
and it all evoles around...sex....
•• voles do like sex.
PLUS with multiple wives,
•• sounds positively salt lake.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:42pm
oh, and where should the palestinian christians go?
i know, disneyworld!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:08pm
Here FZ is a Saudi commentator dismayed at the mass migration of Arab Christians from Arab lands:
Expulsion of Christians from Arab Countries
Al-Sharq Al-Awsat, Saudi columnist Hussein Shubakshi discussed the phenomenon of Christian emigration from Arab countries. He criticized the fact that this trend was being ignored, and warned of its serious and far-reaching ramifications for Arab society as a whole. The following are excerpts from Shubakshi's article:
"It is obvious that, today another wave of emigration is underway, and that the Arab world is being drained of its Christian residents. The rate of Christian emigration from Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Palestine, Sudan, and Syria has reached astonishing proportions. Palestine in particular is facing a plan to eradicate the entire deeply-rooted Christian presence from all its territories. Christian Palestinian emigrants settle primarily in Chile, especially the capital Santiago, where the Palestinian Christian [community] now numbers 70,000. There is also a process of Christian migration from other Arab regions to Europe, Australia, the U.S., and Canada."
Today, Extremism "Has Become the Most Powerful Means of Expelling Christians from Their Arab Motherland"
More, including Jewish Expulsion from Arab lands at:
http://tinyurl.com/cm57aw
Posted by lrjones4 at 01/25/2009 @ 9:43pm
concubines,
•• you wish. ever pick up a prostitute on your worldly adventures?
no pesky equal rights for women.....
•• WOMEN'S SUFFRAGE, 1920 -- we are SO better.
look out..!!!
PRESTO..PARADISE IN THE HOLY LAND..NO MORE BOMBERS!!!
•• except for larry.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
BIGOT
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:44pm
Fd
You become more simustic and child like with every post.
You are a court jester here
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 9:46pm
john maasch,
what you have written is truly disappointing.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:54pm
Simplistic is the word, FZ
Crippled thinker,
Read again, I never said Arabs or Iranians are responsible for oil prices. I did say higher prices are in their interests and nothing raises prices more than trouble in the ME .... So........
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 9:55pm
i'm simustic and proud!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:56pm
http://tinyurl.com/cm57aw Posted by lrjones4 at 01/25/2009 @ 9:43pm | ignore this person | warn this person
source: MEMRI, aka the Israeli government.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/12/worlddispatch.brianwhitaker
larry is a blind clown.
Posted by rykart at 01/25/2009 @ 9:58pm
quagmire_99 has proposed a reasonable solution,
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009
kinda like sending the seminole to oklahoma, doncha think?
gonna make 'em walk?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:00pm
better simustic than racist.
i better get my mexican wife to tie her tubes.
we've already had our quota of 17 kids.
hey honey, pass me the quran.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:01pm
Without the Soviets around to worry about, maybe it is time to get this over once and for all, if jihad comes then we could go over there and kick ass and get this thing done with, before Iran gets their nuke.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/25/2009 @ 8:56pm
who's gonna pay for it?
doubt the saudi's will lend it. the chinese card is maxed out.
shouldn't you be pulling the wings off flies.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:05pm
Saudi Arabia is our oldest Middle Eastern ally and not Israel. Our relationship with the Saudis preceded the foundation of Israel. Posted by P. J. Casey at 01/25/2009 @ 9:41pm
check out this newsflash:
In August of 1920, the United States Secretary of State dispatched a letter to the ambassador of the United States in Iran John Caldwell:
The Persian Minister at Washington has stated orally that British companies are working to acquire oil concessions in the northern provinces, but that his government would prefer to grant these concessions to American rather than to other foreign interests.
••••••••••••••••
Iranian Minister in Washington, Hossein Ali, expressed his gratitude to the American government in his letter addressed to the Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes:
THE PERSIAN GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS RECOGNIZED THE ALTRUISM AND IMPARTIALITY WHICH DISTINGUISH THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT AND PEOPLE. THEY PARTICULARLY APPRECIATE THE CONCERN OF THE UNITED STATES FOR FAIR PLAY, FOR THE RESPECT OF THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE SMALLER NATIONS, FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF THE ECONOMIC OPEN DOOR.
http://www.fravahr.org/spip.php?article210
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:09pm
He hasn't told us why Iran SHOULDN'T have a nuke.
For the record, Iran has always responded favorably to the proposition of a nuclear-free Middle East and has said they have no problem undergoing rigorous international inspections to ensure their compliance. (This common-sense solution is flatly rejected by the US and Israel). What Iran is NOT keen on, is to remain sitting ducks for the next US-Israel mass murder campaign.
..tough to blame them.
Posted by rykart at 01/25/2009 @ 10:09pm
damn!
i've been had.
frikkin' mexicans.
i feel so used.
HOW MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS DO YOU HAVE, JM?
HOW MANY UNCLES AND AUNTS?
DID YOUR GRANDMOTHER EVER GET TO VOTE?
so sophisticated and wealthy you be.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:12pm
i'm simustic and proud!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:56pm
Its a cross beween simplistic and autistic...
The fact you do not get it is so evident in your multiple childish posts as if you analysing something deep then proudly refuting it with your wisdom....is embarassing..
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 10:42pm
HOW MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS DO YOU HAVE, JOHN MAASCH?
fuckin' spics.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:50pm
i'm simustic and proud!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:56pm
A cross between simplistic and autistic...
You so do not get it...your childish posts ramble on as if you have refuted something deep proudly...it is embarassing for you.
you need to read slower and think about what you read....or maybe mnot comment at all until you are sure you understand the point of some of these posts...
Ask you wife. She has got to be a litle more awake than you.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 10:52pm
oh, and john,
please say some more racist things about my family.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:54pm
HOW MANY BROTHERS AND SISTERS DO YOU HAVE, JOHN MAASCH?
please, tell us.
ATTENTION STEPHEN HARPER!
PLEASE LOCK UP MY WIFE. SHE'S PART OF A PLOT TO TURN US INTO SPICS.
actually, john the racist, she writes much better in english than you do.
imagine that, writing better in a second language after years of third world public school education.
you could be so lucky as to have the mexicans take over.
at least there'd be fewer wars.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 10:58pm
RABBITS, ALL OF "THEM".
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 11:02pm
sorry, mr. dreyfuss.
you write an excellent column.
if only there were 6,785,432,891 more of you.
have you seen this:
"Al-Sharq al-Awsat reports in Arabic that Shaikh Najih Ibrahim, the leader of the fundamentalist group al-Gama'a al-Islamiya in Egypt, said Friday that his organization fears that al-Qaeda will launch an attack on the United States shortly, in revenge for Israel's assault on Gaza, with the aim of turning Barack Obama into "another George W. Bush."
Ibrahim's group called on al-Qaeda instead to observe a 4-month ceasefire toward the United States, so as to give Obama a chance to show he is really different."
at juan cole....
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 11:09pm
UNICEF says economic losses in Gaza at 1.9 bln USD
25.01.09 01:00
The direct economic losses from damage to infrastructure and building in the Gaza Strip, along with harm to various economic activities, amounted to over 1.9 billion U.S. dollars, Xinhua reported on Saturday, referring to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF).
A statement released by the UNICEF Middle-East and North Africa region based in Amman, Jordan, said extensive destruction was caused to homes and public infrastructure throughout the Gaza Strip, with many families losing their entire possessions.
The UNICEF quoted preliminary findings from the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS) as saying that massive Israeli offensive on Gaza caused the complete destruction of over 4,000 residences and partial destruction of 17,000 buildings and housing units.
The PCBS also reported damage or destruction to 23 mosques, 25 schools, hospitals and universities, 31 security headquarters, 16 ministry buildings and 1,500 factories, workshops and other commercial establishments.
The United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) reported that an estimated 90,000 people have been displaced, including up to 50,000 children, said the UNICEF.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 11:10pm
What a misnomer this thread is titled. Leftist apologetics for Islamic Terrorism is a disgusting display of anti-Americanism and a stain of dishonor for the dead of 9-11 and our servicemen conducting the war on Islamic terrorism!
The Arab or Islamic world cheers the missles of Hamas and Hezbollah and any Islamic Terrorist group that succeeds in KILLING Jews, Christians, and American supporters as the west is percieved.
What they really despise is that Israel finally ran out of patience and when blockades won't stop the rockets and suicide attacks and Israel took decisive action for self preservation! This is what they truely despise!
Lucky for them they have sympathetic fools world wide unable to discern that the women children and other innocents who have died are used daily as sheilds for their terrorist murders! They treat them ONLY as useful tools with NO value for their lives! Where else in the world do people stockpile weapons of war in schools and place of worship?
Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
The Arab or Islamic world cheers the missles of Hamas and Hezbollah and any Islamic Terrorist group that succeeds in KILLING Jews, Christians, and American supporters as the west is percieved.-------Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
Would that include...Iraqis, RIO?
(Wonder if he'll figure out what my NEXT question is????...heheh)
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 07:19am
Anger is boiling over in the Middle East over Gaza, and -- exactly as I predicted -- the result of the war has been to boost radicalism throughout the region, to strengthen the terrorist-inclined fanatics of Hamas, and .."
Yup, that has been the goal of Hamas all along...
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 2:31pm
That has been the result of JOMMAMAs and the neo-cons golas and ambitions. Along with strengthening Al Qaida and killing American soldiers. .
---
Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
Blame the victims, Commanche, it is what Jesus would do.
Posted by crabwalk at 01/26/2009 @ 07:22am
People do migrate to other parts of the planet for better lives. Even that Palestinian doctor who worked in an Israeli hospital and who lost 3 daughters in Gaza, was shown on TV to be relieved and happy that despite all of what he has lost, he is looking forward to migrating to Canada.
....................
... and I have stated the above as a Muslim!
Posted by quagmire_99 at 01/25/2009 @ 4:04pm
Absolutely repulsive. One would think that the Palestinian doctor should be thanking Israel for his "migration" to Canada. May Allah return your favor.
Posted by OneVote at 01/26/2009 @ 10:04am
Frosty head,
note the word legal immigrants...
Secondly my post is about the possibility oif Arabs eventualy become the dominat population through ther natural higher birth rates..
The same goes for hispanics in thre US It is a fact and not a racist stance...fact.... THINK....
all one has to do is watch population trends and shifts..LOOK at Europe from an Islamic point of view.
Ever been there?
Latest constuction project in London? Mosque larger than a football stadium...
Europe has more Mosques now than churches? and the represent what GROWING % of population? And this from a religion who has promised to over take the world?
I write because I want people to think about another point of view out there, not a shoot from the hit statements to demonstrate knee jerk responses thinking from idiots...and you seem to run as fast as you can in that direction.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/26/2009 @ 10:05am
>>>Unless the new US administration takes forceful steps to prevent any further suffering and slaughter of Palestinians, the peace process, the US-Saudi relationship and the stability of the region are at risk. ... <<<
Great reporting, ROBERT DREYFUSS!
An unimaginable alliance for Jihad between Sunni and Shia because of Israeli aggression demonstrates the inability of the Israeli government to think through the second and third order effects of their actions, and once again calls into question whether they can be trusted with nuclear weapons in the region.
One of the serious issues Obama will have to face if he is to make good on enforcing the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT) is to make NO exception - including Israel - to the enforcement mechanisms of this treaty, and indicate to Israel that they MUST sign this treaty and subject themselves to IAEA inspectors if we are to have any credibility in enforcing it against others in the the region like Iran.
Conditioning any future Israeli foreign aid or military purchases from the US on Israel signing the NPT will give Obama all the leverage he needs to get this done.
Posted by Metteyya at 01/26/2009 @ 11:15am
The Arab or Islamic world cheers the missles of Hamas and Hezbollah and any Islamic Terrorist group that succeeds in KILLING Jews, Christians, and American supporters as the west is percieved. Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
comanche,
It seems that you are indignant as the world has come to discover the true color of Israel and Zionists like you. Human right organizations are coming in drove after your Israeli war criminals, the murderers of Palestinian and Lebanese children. The world has witnessed first hand the killing orgy in Gaza, while the Israeli crowed standing across the Gaza borders cheering. Not since the collapse of the Third Reich there has been such hysteria for more blood as it is with the chauvinistic Israeli public. The Israeli public is out in mass for more blood of Palestinian kid's, like midnight vampires.
The world could not lie for and hide more of the Israeli crimes against humanity, even the traditionally pro-Israel 60 Minutes was out yesterday exposing the Jewish fundamentalist settlers in the West Bank. The world is tired of War Criminal Israel; exactly as it once got tired of racist South Africa. The Fallacy of Zionism is being exposed to the world one murder at a time.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 11:32am
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 11:32am
Always find this interesting to ask...
Okay, Crip, give us a few details on YOUR solution to the Israeli/Palestinian situation?
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 11:37am
home grown nazi cops arrest you for demanding somebody returning your wife's passport, cop took own initiative to throw you against ticket counter in full view of family, then charge you w/additional resisting arrest, threaten to throw you in jail if you say anything, not allow any rights, do not get read any miranda or other rights, after getting arrested, mug shots, fingerprinted,
most embarassing thing is every white person standing and looking at you....even when you are white...not wanting to get involved...
go to court not to sue since lawyer wants to plead...to dismiss charge, when actually should have sued the police...with CEO of airline apology in hand, but cop armed with legal team gets off...
you get nothing, no lawyer will take your case, ACLU not want to get involved, since you are not minority...that is discrimination....
THIS is the end of democracy...WE ARE ALL GUILTY WITHOUT PROOF...unless you have enough money to provide "innocence"....by threatening lawsuit....
muslim guy wearing arabic shirt who got $$$ from airline an anomaly...not the rule....
people need to wake up....
now they have full body scans....
btw: since the incident totally avoid all airports..will drive everywhere, only domestic, will refuse to go international now until they dismantle this "homeland security" bs which does not good and violates everybody's rights.....by people who have GEDs in charge...once military pulled out of airports...cops became even more bullies, which is their nature evidently.
I don't care now what happens to anybody else, I have no empathy whatsoever...if you can sue and win, good luck....maybe with Obama...who knows??? otherwise, the next time you see somebody's rights being violated you should say something for a CHANGE!
Posted by jrs112 at 01/26/2009 @ 11:56am
The so called arab leaders are nothing.they have not been elected by their people and actually are working with the zionists against any progressive and democratic movement in the region.soon or later these moth eaten rulers will be gone and replaced by a more progressive leaders.israel is not afraid of the so called hamas missiles .it is afraid of leaders who can unite the arabs.a true unity amongst the arabs is a death sentence for zionism.
Posted by excalibur999 at 01/26/2009 @ 12:03pm
Okay, Crip, give us a few details on YOUR solution to the Israeli/Palestinian situation? Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 11:37am
Mask,
Part of the solution was outlined in the 60 Minutes segment yesterday. The one state solution requires Israel to divest from so-called Jewish State model and admit Palestinians as equal citizens in a participatory democracy for all. The second would be the two-state solution and requires Israel to pull back to the pre-1967 borders and give Palestinians a geographically viable state. Unfortunately, both models are rejected by the Zionist manifesto. The Israelis instead are working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel while allowing their religious settlements to creep and multiply over Palestinian land. While fellows like you will be up in arm for any infringement on the wall separating religion and state in America; you seem to be cheerleaders for the Pure Jewish state model which exists in Israel today.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 12:07pm
'Early on Thursday morning, January 15, Jewish activists in a historic first in Los Angeles, chained themselves to the entrance of the Israeli Consulate and blocked the driveway to the parking structure, blocking all traffic in and out of the building. "We sent a clear message to the world that LA Jews are part of the global majority in opposition to the Israeli siege of Gaza," said Lenny Potash a 72-year old protester who was cuffed to eight other activists, blocking the driveway to the consulate. The activists were joined by 50 other supporters and who chanted "LA Jews say, End the Siege of Gaza" and "Not in Our Name! We will Not be Silent!" Protesters also held up signs reading "Israeli Consulate: Closed for War Crimes."
"We succeeded today in letting Jews and other Americans of conscience know that it is safe to speak out against the policies of the Israeli government and that the Israeli lobby does not speak for everyone," said Robin Ellis, a registered nurse who also risked arrest to block the consulate entrance. "We are committed to escalating non-violent activities in the future to end the siege and win justice for Palestinians," Ellis said.'
Jews Protest Zionism in LA and Toronto; 01/20/09, Excerpt
http://jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=158
Posted by OneVote at 01/26/2009 @ 12:36pm
It would seem that many Jews have been pushed to brink as well.
Posted by OneVote at 01/26/2009 @ 12:37pm
The Israelis instead are working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel while allowing their religious settlements to creep and multiply over Palestinian land.---Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 12:07pm
No, I'm a cheerleader for peace....not issueing blanket bigoted statements (like your friend syfriend's determination that "97% of Israelis are dumb, brutish savages"...or even the Islamophobic remarks from the Hard Right)...
and for TRUTH. For instance, how EXACTLY is Israel "working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel"?
How many? By what means? When?
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 12:41pm
next time you see somebody's rights being violated you should say something for a CHANGE! Posted by jrs112 at 01/26/2009 @ 11:56am
jrs112,
Part if the problem you outlined is the American Mainstream Media. These major media outlets are run by Jews with extreme views or by Israeli sympathizers. The Israeli sympathizers are normally placed at the sensitive spots of News Editor Desks. These News Editors work hard to filter what Americans hear or see, unless the story is favorable to Israel, then it won't be aired. Thus, Arab Americans and American Muslims' racial profiling is never fully exposed. The same scheme is implemented in the motion picture industry; as Jews with extreme views dominate movie production and distribution in Hollywood. It is nearly impossible to show a movie that reflects the Palestinian point of view at a major theater in America; no theater will agree to show such movie. Theater Owners who violate such unwritten understanding will face eventual bankruptcy; the full wrath of Hollywood boycott will fall upon them.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 12:43pm
CripThink,
I guess, according to you, there can be no "Pure Jewish state model".
What say you about all of these "Islamic republics", then?
Such as Iran, and there are plenty others that are almost entirely Islamic in nature now.
Is it OK to have those? Why can there be a primarily Islamic state in places in the world, and yet you have issues with having a Jewish state?
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 12:44pm
Antwerp Jews Disassociate from Zionist Activities
Jan 23, 2009
After some Belgian Zionist leaders held a demonstration in Antwerps Albert Park, to demonstrate solidarity with the Zionist State and with the IDF's operations in Gaza, the Orthodox Jewish community of Antwerp felt the need to protest. The rabbis of four major Chassidic communities in Antwerp Bobov, Satmar, Pshevorsk and Khal Chassidim, representing more that 600 Jewish families signed a statement indicating their disassociation from the Zionists and desire to live at peace with all nations.
Excerpt from:
http://jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=159
Posted by OneVote at 01/26/2009 @ 12:45pm
and for TRUTH. For instance, how EXACTLY is Israel "working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel"? How many? By what means? When? Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 12:41pm
Mask,
These are good questions, I will respond to them shortly
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 12:48pm
Iranian Jews Protest Against Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZZhwHTUuS8&feature=related
Posted by OneVote at 01/26/2009 @ 12:54pm
when; Mosques, Synagogues and Cathedrals, become more important than human life and condition we will always considers violence in the name of our group god the solution. There will always be those of the gluttony Wall street types interested only in; money, oil, gold, precious metals etc... willing to take advantage of those of us gullible enough to listen to them. This is especially true if they speak the coded language of religion. My special worry is that there is a very large umbilical cord from Washington D.C. to Wall Street.
Posted by julien38 at 01/26/2009 @ 1:00pm
What I don't want is for this to become another war that sucks the US dry. Hell, I agree with quagmire. I know it's not the most ethical move but something's got to give. The US has Israel's dick up its ass, so the US is not gonna go against Israel. I know it's wrong for Israel to kill innocent women and children but it's also wrong for Hamas to put it's own people in danger as it has. Thank God for melting pots and science. I don't have all this ancient, religious, tribal crap to deal with in the present-day.
Posted by k330k at 01/26/2009 @ 1:09pm
What say you about all of these "Islamic republics", then? Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 12:44pm
chermak,
There is a hypocritical double standard here which favors Israel. While the entire so-called free world is condemning the Iranian religious model; it is conspicuously silent and rather cheerleads the Israeli religious model. Does the world have the right to tell Israel to change its Jewish-only theocratic model?
The religious state paradigm is remnant of Middle Ages Europe; it has a questionable viability for the 21st century. It caused chaos and bloodshed when it was implemented in Europe and today the Palestinians are paying heavy price by the Jewish-Only Israel. It is your job to convince the extremist fringe of American Jews, who still support this narrow religious vision, to abandon it.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 1:46pm
All of this over the disagreements about three mythological religions.
Seems people just like a reason to kill other people.
sad
Posted by bleedingheart at 01/26/2009 @ 2:20pm
and for TRUTH. For instance, how EXACTLY is Israel "working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel"? How many? By what means? When? Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 12:41pm
Mask,
The Jewish-only policy implemented by Israel has caused calls to expel non-Jews from the Biblical land of Israel. These calls varied from the "Expel all Arab Dogs Out of Israel" by Rabbi Meir Kahana and Knesset member Avigdor Lieberman to the, slightly most civilized call of Gush Emunim and Tzipi Livni to "Transfer" all Arabs out of the Biblical land of Israel. On Dec 11, 2008 Tzipi Livni went public with this sentiment when she stated that "Arab citizens of Israel can only fulfill their national aspiration outside Israel". These calls are deeply enshrined in the notion that Israel is Jewish-Only state, therefore and ultimately non-Jews don't belong there. The Israeli law practically dedicates this racism. The Israeli Land Authority administers 92% of Israeli's state land, and denies residency right, the right to work and the right of ownership on this land to non Jews. This discriminatory restriction is an immense burden on non- Jews in Israel. When it comes to the occupied territories, the Israelis can do what they please in land confiscation and Arab expulsion. As mentioned in 60 minutes segment yesterday about that Palestinian doctor who was born in Jerusalem, but lost the right to ever enter the city because he stared a clinic in a neighboring town.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 2:55pm
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 2:55pm
"Calls" by radical Zionists is not the same thing as your GENERIC charge that "The Israelis instead are working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel while allowing their religious settlements to creep and multiply over Palestinian land".
Give us some proof of that happening. Where's the "expelling"? How many Arab-Israelis have been "expelled"?...and when? How is Israel "working to reduce their numbers"? Arab-Israelis not allowed but one child? Herod on the march again?
You made the charge...back it up.
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 3:15pm
What else would you expect to arise from this situation in the Middle East. America and its Military Imperialism has been raping the region of its OIL for a many long years. And lets not forget the amount of people, innocent civilians, children, that our Military has killed over there. We have been demonizing them and calling them terrorists, why, because they try to defend themselves from the Western Military Monster otherwise known as United States and its Military Industrial Complex.
Then we fully and blindly support the Zionist state of Israel, no matter what. We give them Billions upon Billions of dollars, we supply them with Military weapons and we give them out thumbs up and say they have a right to (KILL & DESTROY) "defend" themselves.
How come only America and its chosen friends have the RIGHT to "defend" ourselves from those we demonize as Terrorists, but they do NOT have the right to defend themselves from Super Power Terrorists, from Colonialism and Imperialism. Any time some nation tries to, they get deemed "Rogue" or "Terrorists".
Then there is the whole thing on Nukes. America has over TEN THOUSAND nuclear Weapons and Israel, the FOURTH LARGEST has over 400 nukes - yet here we are, both USA and Israel telling Iran they cannot develop nuclear power. It is so hypocritical. Only the BULLIES of the World Are allowed NUKES. That way we can hold our power over other nations.
Well Americas reckless behavior and ideology combined with its unbridled support of Israel is going to end up getting us in a MASSIVE WAR in the Middle East, quite possibly a Third World War, or maybe even A Nuclear WAR!
Great! Thanks Israel, Thanks United States Leaders. Just what we need.
I say, cut off support with Israel and Apologize to the people of the Middle East.
Posted by kristofeR! at 01/26/2009 @ 3:24pm
I wonder how long before one of them is arrested for a plot to commit terror in the US or for their financial support of terrorist organizations. Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/25/2009
Larry,
Here we go you jerk, coming back to talk again, you priest of hate. I thought that you were about to send you agents to intern me. you ex member of the Stern Gang.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 3:44pm
I say, cut off support with Israel and Apologize to the people of the Middle East. Posted by kristofeR! at 01/26/2009 @ 3:24pm
Great Line kristofeR!
We fair-minded Americans ought to work hard to liberate our Israeli-occupied Congress.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 3:51pm
CripThink
Except that it isn't purely a religious model. Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. I would point out that the early Zionists were largely secular Jews. You can't say the same about Islam.
"These major media outlets are run by Jews with extreme views or by Israeli sympathizers. The Israeli sympathizers are normally placed at the sensitive spots of News Editor Desks. These News Editors work hard to filter what Americans hear or see, unless the story is favorable to Israel, then it won't be aired. Thus, Arab Americans and American Muslims' racial profiling is never fully exposed. The same scheme is implemented in the motion picture industry; as Jews with extreme views dominate movie production and distribution in Hollywood."
Ah okay, you get your views of the US media from the Klan then, that explains a great deal.
SJChermak "Make Chuck Norris(Walker) President, Clarence Gilyard (Trivette) Vice-President and let them direct things and the world will be better off. "
Your use of a Chuck Norris TV series as a template for foreign policy says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues.
Posted by brunowe at 01/26/2009 @ 4:01pm
Give us some proof of that happening. Where's the "expelling"? How many Arab-Israelis have been "expelled"?...and when? How is Israel "working to reduce their numbers"? Arab-Israelis not allowed but one child? Herod on the march again? You made the charge...back it up. Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 3:15pm
Mask,
I have outlined the general Israeli policy of transferring and forcing Arabs out of Israel and the occupied territories. Israel's ongoing confiscation of Palestinian land on the West Bank, restricting the freedom of movement of Palestinians by Israel through the establishment of over 620 military check points, denying the right of employment and land ownership of the Palestinians on 92% of land inside the Green Line have forced Arabs to move out of Israel by hundred of thousands. This, in essence, worked to realize the desired Israeli goal of Israel that is free of non-Jews. This posting does not permit giving you demographic details and statistics, but such details are plentiful. You can start with an excellent book by Professor Israel Shahak: Jewish History and Jewish Religion Pluto Press London. Sterling, VA You will find few chapters on this very topic.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 4:18pm
Your use of a Chuck Norris TV series as a template for foreign policy says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues. Posted by brunowe at 01/26/2009 @ 4:01pm
Ok, brunowe,
I understand your sensitivity to this topic; however, I did not quote Chuck Norris, or the other craps you mentioned. But again I don't blame you this is proprietary information and should be kept strictly outside the daily discourse of the Gentile's world; this what made you so upset. Ok, let me quote a credible source this time, how about:
The Israel Lobby By Professor John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 4:45pm
Well Americas reckless behavior and ideology combined with its unbridled support of Israel is going to end up getting us in a MASSIVE WAR in the Middle East, quite possibly a Third World War, or maybe even A Nuclear WAR!
Great! Thanks Israel, Thanks United States Leaders. Just what we need.
I say, cut off support with Israel and Apologize to the people of the Middle East.
Posted by kristofeR! at 01/26/2009 @ 3:24pm
I agree with this sentiment.
Posted by k330k at 01/26/2009 @ 4:46pm
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 4:18pm
I'm glad you have a GENERAL OUTLINE, Crip....now how about some specifics?
And I notice you've started conflating "Arabs in Israel" with Arabs in the West Bank. Stick to one group, please.
Please show how Arab-ISRAELIS are being "expelled" or "reduced in numbers" in Israel.
This reminds me of another post once-
"Israel sunk a US Navy ship with all US sailors on board killed. -----Posted by SLOPER 03/24/2008 @ 09:32am - OBAMA, CHRIS WALLACE... AND RUPERT MURDOCH...Posted by John Nichols at 03/22/2008 @ 5:37pm
Problem was...it wasn't true. "all US sailors" were NOT killed. 34 were. But turning it into "all US sailors" met the desired EFFECT...while apparently the facts alone did not.
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 4:53pm
CripThink,
What is this nonsense?
" It is your job to convince the extremist fringe of American Jews, who still support this narrow religious vision, to abandon it. " Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 1:46pm
Hey, CripThink.... last I knew I do not work for you, you are not my boss or supervisor!
You do not assign work to me.... I reject your job assignment!
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 5:10pm
brunowe,
In a spasm of utter brilliance, you posted the following while commenting about my recommendations:
" Your use of a Chuck Norris TV series as a template for foreign policy says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues. "
1. It is possible that Walker and Trivette busting things up and fixing things would be just what the Middle East needs.
2. Your inablility to see that my suggestions are driven by my frustrations at people like CripThink (who hates Jews) says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 5:15pm
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 4:53pm
Mask,
I do appreciate your urgent curiosity, but please I am not submitting my term paper here. I do think that the topic of discussion become abundantly clear; why don't you do the research to dispute me statistically as you just did in the US Liberty incident? At least consider reviewing the book I recommended. That does not imply that I won't give you statistics; I will definitely. By the way, there is no difference between the expulsion of Palestinians by Israel, whether, inside or outside the green line, so long as Israel is still occupying the West Bank and part of Gaza.
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 5:17pm
Hey, CripThink.... last I knew I do not work for you, you are not my boss or supervisor! You do not assign work to me.... I reject your job assignment!
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 people like CripThink (who hates Jews) says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues. Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 5:15pm
Chermak,
I am definitely not your boss, nor do I aspire to have Zionist like you working for me; I don't hire racists. I definitely don't subscribe to your bigotry. I don't hate Jews, but let's say that I do dislike thugs like you; those who lie on purpose because they refuse to feel human misery, unless it is inflicted upon them.
I am surprised that you have refrained from calling me Anti-Semites. Is it because the term becomes an over-consumed commodity tha is gone out of fashion?
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 5:33pm
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 5:15pm
LoL
"1. It is possible that Walker and Trivette busting things up and fixing things would be just what the Middle East needs."
Only if you are a child ... ... ...
"2. Your inablility to see that my suggestions are driven by my frustrations at people like CripThink (who hates Jews) says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues."
That is no excuse, brunowe beat me to it (lost a post or two on the way home from work); as what you said was and is inherently fascist, you must really be frustrated.
Posted by V at 01/26/2009 @ 6:26pm
You made the charge...back it up. Posted by Mask at 01/26/2009 @ 3:15pm
Mask,
An excellent article focuses on the Israeli expulsion of Palestinians to maintain Jewish purity in Israel. Can you dispute my references statically without just using the traditional line of rejecting the authors out of hand without commenting on the content? Do you have access to Shahak's book?
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0798/9807014.html
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 6:35pm
Not bad, but why the surprise. Doesn't take much to imagine this would be the response. But then if Arabs and Palestinians spoke for themselves it would have come as less of a surprise. If we got the view from Doha and not only from Tel Aviv the splits among Arab nations over this Israel/Palestine war would have been known. But nothing from Doha. So no background for the Saudi comment. Nor what that may say about the practicality of the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative, or any negotiation instead of any highly unlikely shared Arab Iranian jihad.
Democracy Now could easily find Rashid Khalidi, PBS Newshour managed to find Rami Khouri twice, Mouin Rabbani, who has been published here before is somehow missing now. Mustafa Barghouthi who as a non Fatah, non Hamas member of the Palestinanian PLC, a non violent activist, easily found and would be informative over what is happening in the West Bank, and the view on Hamas, Fatah and Gaza from there, but is nowhere to be found here. None apparently are as important to Dreyfuss as Khalilzad who actually didn't say anything that wasn't reported elsewhere.
In the end, leaving the Palestinians voiceless leaves US progressives sharing the same assumptions of what is legitimate and what isn't with the usual US and EU policymakers, misunderstands what militant and moderate means in that region, and worse still misses the changes taking place.
Charlie M
Posted by cmsandia at 01/26/2009 @ 7:11pm
(on Hama and Hezbollah)
Lucky for them they have sympathetic fools world wide unable to discern that the women children and other innocents who have died are used daily as sheilds for their terrorist murders! They treat them ONLY as useful tools with NO value for their lives! Where else in the world do people stockpile weapons of war in schools and place of worship!
Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
Blame the victims, Commanche, it is what Jesus would do.
Posted by crabwalk at 01/26/2009 @ 07:22am | ignore this person | warn this person
YOU are saying that HAMAS is the victim? They are the ones using women children and innocents as shields, and schools and mosques as munitions depots! That is just perverted thinking!
Name the other civilized nations that does the same as Islamic terrorist?
Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 7:27pm
Isreali terrorism should not be rewarded with any concessions by Hamas or the Arab states - the only concessions must come from the white phosphorus abusers , burning civilians to a crisp to forward their vile agenda of regional hegemony on the basis of fear - Israel is no democracy but an ideologically fascist state for Jews which oppresses and discriminates against its Arab/Christian/Muslim/any other religions but Judaism population - Israeli state terrorism brought to you by US arms and chemical manufacturers
Posted by nonukes at 01/26/2009 @ 9:13pm
Where else in the world do people stockpile weapons of war in schools and place of worship? Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 04:18am
Waco?
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 01/26/2009 @ 9:14pm
and you seem to run as fast as you can in that direction. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/26/2009 @ 10:05am
racist buffoon.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2009 @ 9:45pm
How can she both be advocating the explusion of the Arabs and the Jews? Who would that leave? Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/26/2009 @ 3:25pm
berbers.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2009 @ 9:47pm
You will end up doing to yourself. We will hear about you on the 6 o'clock news right after you attack a synogogue Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/26/2009 @ 7:56pm
,
Your Zionist Nazis buddies have just bombed 23 mosques, 3 UN Schools and one hospital in Gaza. The Israelis have bombed a Muslim grave yard then turned it to parking lot for their tanks. They pillaged 60% of farm land in Gaza, destroyed 60 irrigation wells and number of chicken and other animal farms. So don't you point your fingers at others, you have lost your moral justification, you new-Nazi sympathizer. By the way, the Israeli soldiers could not find any weapons in the destroyed Mosques and hospital as they always bragged about. And as sign of their racist attitude, the soldiers inscribed obscenities and racist remarks on the walls of destroyed Mosques. Aren't these the same atrocities which the Zionists always complained that the Nazis did to them? What is your say, minister of Propaganda?
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 9:51pm
berbers. Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2009 @ 9:47pm
Yah. They all need haircuts anyways
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 01/26/2009 @ 9:59pm
Crip
Mask has some food in his mouth. Could you please chew and digest it for him?
Posted by rykart at 01/26/2009 @ 10:06pm
YOU are saying that HAMAS is the victim? They are the ones using women children and innocents as shields, and schools and mosques as munitions depots! That is just perverted thinking! Name the other civilized nations that does the same as Islamic terrorist? Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 7:27pm | ignore this person | warn this person'''
shitty liar!
Human shields (including children) have ONLY been used by Israel and they have been used by israel repeatedly. That is the conclusion of the human rights community, including Israel's human rights bureau Bt'selem.
Posted by rykart at 01/26/2009 @ 10:13pm
Hey Israelo-scum
This is what a human shield looks like:
http://ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/child-shield.html
quit throwing around tems you don't understand, Nazi filth.
Posted by rykart at 01/26/2009 @ 10:34pm
Lvlliverty1,
In you I see the reincarnation of Rasputin the " Mad Monk" . Your holiness has a smell!
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 11:51pm
"Kill the Jews - kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth - this is well pleasing to Allah." ~some loco
Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/26/2009 @ 10:56pm
and you've made clusterbombs that little kids "play" with.
what's your point?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/27/2009 @ 08:28am
Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 6:35pm
Crip, AGAIN, some quotes from the Hard Right in Israel and going back to 1948....don't prove your point.
YOU SAID- "The Israelis instead are working to expel and reduce the number of Arabs in Israel..."---Posted by CripThink at 01/26/2009 @ 12:07pm
"are working"...present tense. Not 1948 and not future tense as to what some radical Zionists WANT to happen.
Now...for the 3rd time, do you have any evidence to support that Arab-ISRAELIS are being "expelled" or SOMEHOW "reduced in number" by the Israeli government????
Or are you ready to admit that was hyperbole (a kind word of "bullshit")?
Posted by Mask at 01/27/2009 @ 08:48am
They not only are trying to expel Palestinians from the OT but from Israel as well. They are trying to legislate it and have widespread support in Israel among the Nazi population. Read ha'aretz! Read the statements of filth like Avigdor Leiberman..Olmert's right hand man.
http://imeu.net/news/article003471.shtml
Moshe Dayan said 'the Palestinians will live like dogs and who ever will leave will leave.'
I think the onus is on Israel's vile apologists to show when that longstanding zionist policy CHANGED.
It has not changed... merely intensified.
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 09:34am
I'm thinking from his "exactly as I predicted" comment that Dreyfuss is a bit of a legend in his own mind.
Sorry, old boy, but "predicting" that Arabs will get angry over an Israeli preemptive strike is like predicting the content of Jessica Valenti's critique of an anti feminist article:
It's so easy a cave man could do it
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 01/27/2009 @ 10:18am
Just have to "fine tune" the Reverand's high fidelity version of The Sermon on The Mount:
"We will hear about you on the 6 o'clock news right after you attack A FAMILY PLANNING OR FERTILITY CLINIC WHERE STEM CELL PEOPLE ARE SLAUGHTERED, AS YOU MOW DOWN SECRETERIES, DOCTORS AND CLIENTS ALIKE with a "I'M PRO-LIFE!" BUTTON over your TIT and (we) figure out that it was probably A SUPPORTER OF SAINT SARAH AND "ALASKA FIRST" AYATOLLAH TODD.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/26/2009 @ 7:56pm
Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 01/27/2009 @ 10:43am
Recent polls indicate that Likud, Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing opposition party, has retained and even increased its lead. The other party that appears to have gained the most ground is the nationalist Yisrael Beiteinu, led by Avigdor Lieberman.
A hawkish legislator and former minister, Mr. Lieberman pulled his party out of the governing coalition a year ago when Israel began negotiations over Palestinian statehood with the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank, which is viewed as more moderate and pragmatic than Hamas.
..from today's NT Times.
http://tiny.cc/X2eqs
More on the current favorite--Israeli Nazi Avigdor Leiberman:
http://tiny.cc/pvjeS
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 11:09am
Name the other civilized nations that does the same as Islamic terrorist?
Posted by comancheamerican at 01/26/2009 @ 7:27pm
Israel for starters.
Posted by OneVote at 01/27/2009 @ 11:44am
Name the other civilized nations that does the same as Islamic terrorist?
does firing missiles from 30,000 feet into apartment blocks count?
Posted by emile duBois at 01/27/2009 @ 12:17pm
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 09:34am
Okay, same challenge. Present evidence that Israel is expelling Arab-ISRAELIS from Israel.
Aside from quotes from the Nutty Zionist contingent...and DEAD PEOPLE...you can't.
Posted by Mask at 01/27/2009 @ 12:39pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/27/2009 @ 10:04am
What's the difference to the child's parents, Larry?
Posted by Mask at 01/27/2009 @ 12:40pm
Wasn't Hamas elected democratically? Are the only nations calling Hamas terrorist Israel, the US, Canada and a plurality of the Eurpean Union(15 of 29 countries)? That means that 174 of the 192 UN countries do not think Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hmm, could the US be wrong again?
Proven on DemocracyNow, on November 4th, the IDF entered Gaza illegally and killed 6 Hamas members in an attempt to destroy a Gazan tunnel to Egypt. They broke international law and are now being investigated for it. Hamas are freedom fighters 'by any means necessary', and unfortunately that means the loss of innocent lives on both sides.
The Arab world needs to step up more before the region implodes, and take the lead - don't wait for the self admiring US.
Posted by LarryB at 01/27/2009 @ 1:22pm
"Nutty Zionist contingent."
...better known as the Israeli leadership and a majority of the Israeli public.
http://tiny.cc/Jixrg
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 1:49pm
Or are you ready to admit that was hyperbole (a kind word of "bullshit")? Posted by Mask at 01/27/2009 @ 08:48am
Mask,
If you were an Arab, this is too much honor to bestow on you, living in Israel today; you are automatically excluded from owning, living or working on 92% of the Israeli proper. It is obvious that your Israelis buddies never get tired of making Ghettos; they have learned this trade from the Germans. If you were an Arab living in Israel and you marry a women from the occupied Palestinian territories, then you are given one choice; leave Israel if you want to be with your wife, because you simply can't bring your wife to Israel to live with you. However, if you're a Jew who was born in Brooklyn and never set a foot in Israel before, then you are automatically and Israeli citizen the minute you step out of the plane at Ben-Gurion airport. An Arab doctor, who was born in Jerusalem can't enter Jerusalem anymore because he started a clinic in neighboring town. The Ovious purpose of this despicable exclusion policy of Arabs in Israel is to make their lives so miserable and force them to leave.
Posted by CripThink at 01/27/2009 @ 3:14pm
oops...posted on the wrong thread Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/27/2009
Wow.
An atrocity denier AND a climate change denier!
What a surprise.
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 3:15pm
Sigh ... The Red Cross take;
"The world has reeled in horror at revelations of Israeli atrocities as the Palestinian death toll has climbed toward 800. The International Red Cross was so outraged it broke its usual silence over an attack in which the Israeli army herded a Palestinian family into a building and then shelled it, killing 30 people and leaving the surviving children clinging to the bodies of their dead mothers. The army prevented rescuers from reaching the survivors for four days.
Israel's shelling of a UN school that had been turned into a refugee centre near Gaza city, killing 42 people who had fled the fighting, drew further accusations of indifference to civilian lives. And Israel has struggled to justify the eradication of entire families, including small children, in pursuit of Hamas officials."
Linked from; "Exchange Between Bill Moyers and Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League"
http://tinyurl.com/8bdu46
Posted by V at 01/27/2009 @ 4:09pm
Light unto nations:
http://www.truthout.org/011209C
Posted by rykart at 01/27/2009 @ 5:30pm
great article, thanks..its time for America to be librated from the zionist lobby
Posted by adam777 at 01/27/2009 @ 7:16pm
would you prefer that the police have no weapons that we have no military to defend ourselves? that is the choice that Frosty wants; how about you?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/27/2009 @ 12:52pm
actually, frosty's dad was a cop. good man, i love him dearly (pbuh)
i'd like everybody to calm down.
a world of frosty's would be a lot of fun and really cheap.
but alas......
stupid humans.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/28/2009 @ 12:43am
you are a sick soul then Frosty. Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/27/2009 @ 10:04am
and who's deaths have i caused, mr. liberty?
call it jihad or call it war, it is still killing.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/28/2009 @ 12:45am
plus being illiterate in their own language,
•• coming from captain typo, that is insulting.
Posted by YourJomamma at 01/25/2009 @ 8:21pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2009 @ 9:33pm
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Priceless, frosty, priceless!
Posted by cka2nd at 01/28/2009 @ 02:10am
1. It is possible that Walker and Trivette busting things up and fixing things would be just what the Middle East needs.
2. Your inablility to see that my suggestions are driven by my frustrations at people like CripThink (who hates Jews) says all that needs to be said about your intellectual capacity and grasp of the issues.
Posted by sjchermak at 01/26/2009 @ 5:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person
1--The idea that this can be solved by just busting heads is typical of your simple-mindedness.
2--Your track record speaks for itself. Your suggestion is driven by the aforementioned simple-mindedness.
Posted by brunowe at 01/28/2009 @ 07:42am
Posted by CripThink at 01/27/2009 @ 3:14pm
Direct question...no direct answer.
But in that, your position is made clear. Basically that like the Hard Right, you take hyperbole, even falsehood, and treat it like fact.
And the two Fringes together (you, rykart, syfriend on one side) (lvliberty, sjcher, etc.) on the other...
underlie the main problem for peace. Obviously, given your views, how can you "negotiate with evil", unless it's crushed (either under "victory over Hamas" or "embargo Israel until they give Hamas what it wants")?
Again, same coin, two sides. Both of which I hope Pres. Obama ignores.
Posted by Mask at 01/28/2009 @ 09:19am
brunowe,
the man has a coconut were his head should be.
bonk!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/28/2009 @ 09:36am
Posted by Mask at 01/28/2009 @ 09:19am | ignore this person | warn this person
mask..if you have any genuine interest (which I sincerely doubt) in the facts surrounding Israel's policies of ethnic cleansing, from 1948 to the present, you should read "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" by the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. It's a superb and highly sobering study. If you can continue to claim that ridding greater Israel of it's Arab populace is NOT an ongoing preoccupation of Israel, fine. But inform yourself a little, first. That would be swell, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
You just seem to pride yourself on being uninformed, yet representing so-called "moderation" when your position offers no remedy whatsoever, because it refuses to establish blame for the situation.
Guess what? Someone IS overwhelmingly to blame for this ongoing catastrophe and it is not Hamas and it is not Hezbollah and it is not the Palestinians.
Posted by rykart at 01/28/2009 @ 11:13am
underlie the main problem for peace. Obviously, given your views, how can you "negotiate with evil", unless it's crushed (either under "victory over Hamas" or "embargo Israel until they give Hamas what it wants")? Posted by Mask at 01/28/2009 @ 09:19am
Mask,
No, wait a second, don't distort my position; I want to negotiate with evil. It is evil that doesn't want to seriously negotiate with me. Mahmud Abbas, the Palestinian President, gave in to all Israeli conditions and negotiated Peace with them since Oslo in 1993. What did Abbas get in return? The Jewish settlements on the West Bank grew four folds, the Israeli military check points increased to 620. The Israelis have annexed 10% of the West Bank by the Wall. Just in 2008, the Israeli Jewish Settlements on the occupied Palestinian territories grew 68% from the year before. Just go back and read this article by the Israeli Newspaper Haaretz about an Israeli Poly, which you prefer to call Peace Negotiations: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041747.html
I am confident that I am not telling you anything that you don't know, except that you are a fellow who prefers to chart a moderate road to deception.
Posted by CripThink at 01/28/2009 @ 12:15pm
In my humble opinion, the Israeli actions in Gaza should win the stupidity award of the century, and probably that of the millennium. I personally in no way would put myself physically or monetarily into this conflict, but when a suitcase atom bomb explodes in the heart of an Israeli city (and I think the question is not "If?", but "When?"), I, like many of my fellow Americans, will comment, "Well, they certainly had it coming".
First of all, they are jeopardizing their American support, especialy with the new US administration.. I will not vote for any American politician who supports military or monetary aid to the rogue Israel state that killed with my tax money a large number of innocent women and children, and I'm sure that there are many, many other Americans who share my sentiments.
Secondly, Israel has made a lasting peace in the area impossible, and their actions and the resulting ongoing hostilities could well result in the destruction of the Israeli state itself.
While probably not of overall importance in the long run, it is not very intelligent to increase in your neighborhood the number of your sworn lifelong enemies and the the intensity of their emotional hatred of you. If the long term of the goal of Israel is peace, they have surely pushed that goal far off into the distant future.
However, those of Gaza don't have much money, very little military (the Israeli actions were like kicking a weak opponent while he is on the ground after you have knocked him down, and were directed against the civil population, and not HAMS), and no access to nuclear technology. The united Arab world (with Iran, for completeness) suffer none of these shortcomings. Personally, I think that the danger and effectiveness of a unified Arab threat to Israeli existence is pro
Posted by gAnton at 01/28/2009 @ 4:35pm
Already, there is talk in the region of an Arab region wide jihad against Israel, but there is a better way--a secret autonomous organization that is not located in or that can be otherwise linked to any particular Arab state.
In addition to money and motivation, there are three capabilities that the Arab world needs to badly damage or destroy Israel:
1: Israeli intelligence is very good, so they have to develop an excellent counter-intelligence capability and much better security.
2. The Arab intelligence is not very good, and they must rectify this shortcoming.
3. The Arabs need a "stealth" nuclear technology (e.g. a "suitcase" nuclear bomb or very short range delivery capability) so they can detonate nuclear devices on Israeli territory without Israel having any idea as to the nation or nations that were ultimately responsible for the attacks. The technology is probably not here yet, but the money and facilities to develop it certainly are.
This whole episode highlights the sillyness of the current protocal for a nation to have nuclear weapons. All nations are equal, but some can have trillions of dollars of nuclear weapons, and others none; and if a nation that doesn't have nuclear weapons attempts to aqcuire tham, this is considered an an act of war by those that do. All nuclear weapons regardless of ownership should be registered and under control of the UN, and the keys to use them should be controlled by the UN and turned over to the user nation only by nearly unananmous vote of the general assembly. This measure may be viewed by current holders of nuclear weapons as a restriction of their rights, but in fact it may protect their society from annihilation. **
Posted by gAnton at 01/28/2009 @ 4:38pm
Our planet cannot move forward any more in a one-pole direction and with the rule of having a double standard. Without justice, our planet will become a jungle. The most extreme and blind forces of extremism, terrorism and nationalism, will be released and will be accentuated. Israel commits war crimes in Gaza and both US and the international community are just watching. They persist to pretend that it doesn't see. If "our friend" commits a crime, then the crime doesn't exist. If Israel or the Georgian regime of Saakashvili, are the criminals (to refer to the two most newly examples), then we pretend that we see nothing. In August, there has been a genocide: the Saakashvili regime has committed an unprovoked assault against both peace Keeping forces and civilians in South Ossetia. (If you want to see what has happened last year in Caucasus, visit the web www.whitebook2008.com.) After that, Israel murders thousands of civilians in Gaza. That «double standard policy» must end immediately! President Barrack Obama carries in his shoulders the weight of a big hope: to radically change the way within which Washington understands its leading role in the world.
Posted by ilias at 01/30/2009 @ 12:23pm