White House Whitewash on Katrina?

posted by David Corn on 02/24/2006 @ 10:03am

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I first posted this at www.davidcorn.com....

We all know how much this White House cherishes self-examination and accountability. So it was safe to assume that its just-released report on Hurricane Katrina would be a no-holds-barred, blistering, tell-all account of what went wrong--from the streets of New Orleans all the way to the Oval Office. But--can you believe it?--the report somehow managed to miss the missteps that occurred at the White House. There's no accounting of why George W. Bush, Dick Cheney or Andrew Card didn't move quickly to supervise the federal response to Katrina. Perhaps a chapter was lost on the way to the printer. I've done a word search on the main body of the 228-page report. Looking for the phrase "White House," I found six pages on which the White House is mentioned; four of those are in the recommendation section and describe how the White House can be involved in a better response next time.

Here are the other references to the White House (the bold emphasis is mine):

* p. 36 -- [A]s late as 6:00 PM EDT that day [August 29, the day Katrina made landfall, the DHS Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC) reported to senior DHS and White House officials that, "Preliminary reports indicate the levees in New Orleans have not been breached, however an assessment is still pending."

....At 6 PM EDT aboard a U.S. Coast Guard helicopter, Marty Bahamonde, a FEMA Public Affairs Official, observed the extent of the flooding and was "struck by how accurate" the earlier local reporting was of the levee breaches. He then called FEMA Director Michael Brown and other FEMA officials with his eyewitness account at approximately 8 PM EDT that day. Director Brown has testified that he subsequently called the White House to report the flooding information he received from Bahamonde. Following the calls, Mr. Bahamonde arranged a conference call with State, regional, and FEMA officials to recount what he had seen. An HSOC report marked 10:30 PM EDT, but not received at the White House until 12:02 AM EDT the next day, summarized the conference call and reported Mr. Bahamonde's observations on the extent of flooding throughout New Orleans.

* p. 49 -- These [faith-based groups] groups succeeded in their missions, mitigated suffering and helped victims survive mostly in spite of, not because of, the government. These groups deserve better next time. Jim Towey, Director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, said these folks were the foot soldiers and armies of compassion that victims of Katrina so desperately needed.

Did Bush do anything wrong? Apparently not. Well, to be fair, the report does gently suggest that he apparently failed to act on his vision. The foreword notes,

Hurricane Katrina prompted an extraordinary national response that included all levels of government--Federal, State, and local--the private sector, faith-based and charitable organizations, foreign countries, and individual citizens. People and resources rushed to the Gulf Coast region to aid the emergency response and meet victims' needs. Their actions saved lives and provided critical assistance to Hurricane Katrina survivors. Despite these efforts, the response to Hurricane Katrina fell far short of the seamless, coordinated effort that had been envisioned by President Bush when he ordered the creation of a National Response Plan in February 2003.

So Bush had done the appropriate pre-disaster work. He had "envisioned" a "seamless, coordinated effort." Yet somehow that envisioned response did not happen on its own--while Bush was playing guitar at a Navy base in San Diego the day after Katrina hit. Well, shouldn't Bush have fired whoever was responsible for not putting his vision into practice? I supposed that would not be too compassionate.

And here's an interesting comparison. The House report on Katrina (written by Republicans) was titled, A Failure of Initiative. Bush's report is called Lessons Learned. Its not called Lessons Learned Quickly, for there still is no director of FEMA (to replace Michael Brown)--just an acting director.

Comments (129)

Think your buddy Karl Rove might be at work again, Mr Corn....

nobody going to notice this....as "Dubai-gate" going on!

Posted by Mask at 02/24/2006 @ 10:23am
Haven't you heard? The inept response to hurricane Katrina simply proves that government doesn't work. And besides, since they were underpriveleged anyway, the relief effort worked out well for them, so says Momma Bush.

This is so ugly, I can hardly stand to look. I can't wait until the what-went-wrong-in-Iraq report comes out. Good thing we know that rascal Graener caused all the trouble at Abu Grahib, that part's out of the way. Oh well, at least we have accountability in our public schools now.

Posted by MyParadigm at 02/24/2006 @ 10:35am
i notice how the report says that the faith-based groups deserve better next time. nothing about the other charitable organizations or government agencies or individuals or other nations. let's just give a whole bunch of money to the faith-based groups because they deserve better!

Posted by loveloki at 02/24/2006 @ 11:02am
I think the best lesson to be learned from Katrina is that if you're going to have a hurricane you need to have it in an election year. Check out the FEMA response in the Florida 'canes of 2004. They are just outstanding examples of generosity and efficiency.

I bet that 2006 will be good year too for the victims of hurricanes.

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 11:11am
yeah - maybe the dog ate the white houses paperwork, or someone's grandma died, or all those incompetants other than them screwed things up...what a pack of excuse making liars.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/24/2006 @ 11:46am
Britey Spears:

Ooops they did it again, they've broken the law, again.

----------------------

Eleven Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committe, lead by John Conyers Jr., (D-MI) Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee, joined by eleven other Representatives have mailed a letter to Treasury Secretary John Snow, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales questioning the legality of the now-infamous UAE ports deal.

The letter, advanced to RAW STORY, follows:

# Dear Secretaries Snow, Rumsfeld, Chertoff, and Attorney General Gonzales:

We are writing to inquire regarding the Administration's procedures for allowing Dubai Ports World (DPW), a company based and controlled by the government of the United Arab Emirates, to take control of operations at major American ports.

At a briefing yesterday to staff of the House Armed Services, Intelligence, Homeland Security and Judiciary Committees, representatives from the Administration detailed the process they undergo for reviewing proposed transactions involving foreign investors. In that briefing, representatives from the Departments of Treasury, Homeland Security, Defense, State and others explained that after a 30-day review by the Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States (CFIUS), an inter-agency committee chaired by the Secretary of the Treasury, the members of that Committee exercise their judgment as to whether a subsequent 45-day review and preparation of a report is needed. As with almost all other cases involving foreign investment, in the case of the DPW transaction, the Bush Administration elected to forego such a review.

We have serious concerns about the described process because, as explained by the Administration, the review occurs only if the CFIUS decides in its discretion to do so. This does not appear to be a proper interpretation of the law. Under 50 U.S.C. App. � 2170(b), the CFIUS must conduct the 45-day investigation "in any instance in which an entity controlled by or acting on behalf of a foreign government seeks to engage in any merger, acquisition, or takeover which could result in control of a person engaged in interstate commerce in the United States that could affect the national security of the United States." This amendment, known as the "Byrd Amendment" and enacted in 1993, was intended to mandate that a review occurs if the transaction in any way "could" affect our national security. Prior to the Byrd Amendment, the determination to engage in this 45-day review period was discretionary to the Administration.

If any set of facts would implicate the mandatory language of the amended statute, it would appear to be covered by the case of Dubai Ports World - the company is "controlled" by a foreign government, and the operation of United States ports clearly "could affect the national security of the United States." As a matter of fact, the proposed acquirer of these interests, DPW, is 100% owned by the United Arab Emirates of Dubai. Thus, operation of our ports - already a troubling gap in our homeland security - is being turned over not simply to a foreign company, but to a foreign government. Indeed at yesterday's briefing, your representatives indicated that, at least as an initial matter, the Department of Homeland Security expressed such security concerns. If the Administration truly believed that "this deal wouldn't go forward if we were concerned about the security for the United States of America," as the President stated today, you would work to ensure that transactions of this nature would be subject to the full 45-day review as the law appears to require.

Other aspects of the Administration's review process are also troubling. We understand that little, if any, documentation reflecting the facts surrounding this acquisition and the reasons for its approval was created, including, apparently, any communication to the President informing him of the controversial decision. We are also advised that deliberations of this matter involving the members of CFIUS were scant, confined to a single meeting.

Because of the above concerns, we request answers to the following:

What is your legal authority for failing to conduct mandatory reviews even where security concerns could be implicated? Has this legal interpretation been reviewed and confirmed by anyone in the present Administration - either before or after the September 11, 2001 attacks?

Were memoranda or other materials prepared outlining this legal interpretation by anyone in the present Administration? If so, by whom? Please provide copies of such memoranda or other materials. Were any dissenting memoranda or other materials prepared? If so, by whom? Please provide copies of such memoranda or other materials.

Did the President review the decision to approve the DPW transaction? Did he delegate his mandatory authority to make these decisions to other individuals within the Administration? If so, when and to whom? Please provide a copy of any delegation materials.

How many foreign direct investment transactions have been approved by the Administration? How many of these have been subject to the mandatory 45-day review period required by the Byrd Amendment?

Thank you in advance for your prompt response to this inquiry. Because this transaction is scheduled to be consummated on March 2, we hope you understand this is a matter of urgent and substantial concern. Please provide your responses to 2142 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, D.C. 20515, fax 202-225-4423.

Sincerely,

[Signers were Conyers, Berman, Boucher, Nadler, Jackson Lee, Meehan, Delahunt, Wexler, Weiner, Linda Sanchez, Van Hollen, and Wasserman-Schultz]

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 11:47am
Sorry to change topics again....but a blog on a bogus abortion bill and another on a bogus report about Katrina are not doing it for me!

The above which is clearly a criminal act is much more meaty and now I'm learning that Scooter is apparently running from his graymail defense and is moving to have Fitzy removed as he was "improperly assigned"....it's pretty clear the defense is getting more and more desperate. The real question is.....does Libby trust Bush enough to take the full rap and get the pardon or is Libby scared enough about the prospect of 20+ years that he's considering spilling?

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 12:05pm
Meanwhile, the same sort of indifference is mounting up out here in the northwest, where my state legislator is attempting to cow the rest of the state legislature into bailing out the Seattle Supersonics for two hundred million worth of repairs on their stadium. Ms. Prentice informs critics that she's tired of their "anti-business" and loser attitudes.

Out here in White Center, older people who've never had very good health counsel to begin with are expected to do without needed medicines for diabetes and hypertension, and of late, even the health counseling services that used to come from public health clinics, which are now more strapped for dollars then ever before. But the Sonics need a stadium, so property tax payers are expected to bail them out. I'd rather eat dirt. And by god, if the peculiar notion of entrepreneurialism or free enterprise continues to exist in this country- the idea that the public should assume the costs so that sports team owners can make a profit- I guess I'll be eating dirt soon enough.

The bastards who own this country won't be happy until they've done at every level what they did for New Orleans. And they have the unmitigated gall to ask why people like me detest them as much as we do.

Posted by Legba at 02/24/2006 @ 12:08pm
FREEDOMPLEASE, I'm with ya, the latest Libby news is disgusting. This court is illegal! Isn't that Saddam's defense?

Sorry to all others for going off topic as well ...

Is anyone else as offended as I am about the "boy who cried wolf" article on the home page, saying that the port deal is just the way things get done, but isn't it cool that Bush has to eat his words? As if there weren't serious cronyism problems. From davidcorn.com:

The New York Daily News is reporting that two senior Bush officials--Treasury Secretary John Snow and David Sanborn, who Bush picked last month to run the U.S. Maritime Administration--have business connections to Dubai Ports World, the UAE company.

Didn't we used to call this corruption?

Posted by MyParadigm at 02/24/2006 @ 12:16pm
Legba,

The ridiculous corporate welfare of sports in this country is insane. Does anybody think that the NFL, NBA & MLBB would all go to Japan or something if City governments ALL told pro sports to stand on their own two feet?

I have never, ever understood why an entire community has to chip in so that 50,000 people can have some mindless fun on a Sunday.

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 12:18pm
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 02/24/2006 @ 11:47am | ignore this person

Aren't these the SAME "22 House members" who join up with Conyers...on everything from Downing Street memo impeachment to Bus should meet with Cindy Sheehan to the latest "basement hearing"?

and NEVER any more than them?

Posted by Mask at 02/24/2006 @ 12:44pm
Mask,

You're ALWAYS more concerned with the messenger than the message.

Vary it up, just a bit pal!

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 12:47pm
The bastards who own this country won't be happy until they've done at every level what they did for New Orleans. And they have the unmitigated gall to ask why people like me detest them as much as we do. Posted by LEGBA 02/24/2006 @ 12:08am | ignore this person

(Sorry, off topic here.)

Legba,

As you point out, the powers that be at the state level are ignoring the poor by raising taxes for the benefit of the rich. The beat goes on at the federal level too. Some, by no means all, of the earmarked pork spending our congressional delegation is responsible for include more than $3 million for the benefit of the EMP, Museum of Flight, Wing Luke Asian Museum, and two naval museums. That money could help a lot of seniors and poor people in White Center and elsewhere. Critics will argue that spending priorities reflect election results. They have a point. These are but a few reasons why we need to get involved.

My apologies to all for wondering off topic. Legba struck a nerve here.

Posted by seattlescribe at 02/24/2006 @ 1:46pm
The Bush Administration's response to Katrina is precisely in line with the neocon view that the federal government has no legitimate role to play in anything other than promoting business. We can expect no more from an Administration that believes government is the problem (except when it comes to executive power & giving handouts to cronies, donors & big business). The appointment of Michael Brown was cronyism at its worst and demonstrates that Bush places rewarding big campaign donors before emergency preparedness and the welfare of human beings.

Posted by cholzhauer at 02/24/2006 @ 1:56pm
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 02/24/2006 @ 12:47am | ignore this person

"message" "messenger" not really the analogy, FREE.

More like "message" and number of people who ALWAYS are the "messengers" and who are ALWAYS absent....like the OTHER 200+ Democrats in the House, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, etc.

If the "message" was "Bush rumored to have sneezed on Desmond Tutu at a state dinner"....Conyers and 21 guys from the PC and BC would write a "resolution"....and same number would ignore it!

Oh...and same blogs would report it as "BIG NEWS!!!!".

Posted by Mask at 02/24/2006 @ 2:54pm
In Cajun, "rio bravo" means "river of bullshit." Or so I've heard.

Posted by MyParadigm at 02/24/2006 @ 3:37pm
Rio,

Did FEMA do "a heck of a job" in Florida in 2004? You bet your ass they did.

Swing State in an election year. That's how you get help from the federal government.

But no, I don't expect you to vomit in disgust like the rest of us are doing that non swing state voters were left to fend for themselves in a non election year.

Mask,

You are a complete and utter waste of time as when there is a bandwagon that other Democrats jump on you go into high gear posting that the Democrats are going too far out of what you consider to be the mainstream and thus they should stop it immediately if they ever want to swig at the same trough as the mighty Republicans ever again.

The Law of the United States of America was broken (again) and it doesn't matter if I'm the only one that notices or cares....it still matters to me. It's a shame that you could care less about the heritage of the rule of law that is what this country has been built on and what is crumbling into ruins with each day that passes with King George at the throne.

Let me know when you start caring about something that actually matters.

Posted by freedomplease at 02/24/2006 @ 3:57pm
5.Somehow G.W. Bush and his administrations policies either caused or had God stike New Orleans with the biggest hurricane ever! (again the federal government didn't take care of us because they hate blacks) But now we have the vision of a "Chocolate City" in a SINKHOLE waiting for the next big hurricane. Best of all it will be funded by the American taxpayers! More pure genius that can happen only in America! Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/24/2006 @ 2:56pm | ignore this person

Rio,

Your hyperbole aside (Bush � caused or had God strike New Orleans�.), the days of laisse-faire government went out with the Great Depression. You think the federal government had no role to play in mitigating the effects of this natural disaster on human suffering? You sound like "Brownie" who actually said the federal government "shouldn't be in the ice distribution business."

I am not absolving state and local officials from their respective failures in this tragedy. I don't know when they built the Superdome, but you make a good point in illustrating how locals allocated their public priorities. I too was put-off by the mayor's "chocolate city" remark. However, your apologizing for Bush's incompetence really strains credulity.

It is no longer the 1920s, the public pays more for federal government "services" than it did back then, and it demands the vast resources of our federal government be used to alleviate human suffering in times of disaster. NO exposed incompetence that borders on the criminal on the part of those responsible for public safety. And yes, I would say that no matter who occupied the Oval Office at the time.

After NO, how can anyone feel confident that public safety is in good hands with these incompetents holding power? Since IX XI, there are two indelible images in my memory: people leaping from the windows in a last desperate act from the Twin Towers and the bodies floating in sewage infested waters tethered to posts in NO.

In view of the magnitude of human suffering (some of which could have been prevented or ameliorated by faster and competent action), Rio, please grow beyond petty politics and see these people for what they are, or what they are not.

Posted by seattlescribe at 02/24/2006 @ 4:31pm
If the "message" was "Bush rumored to have sneezed on Desmond Tutu at a state dinner"....Conyers and 21 guys from the PC and BC would write a "resolution"....and same number would ignore it!

Oh...and same blogs would report it as "BIG NEWS!!!!".

Posted by MASK 02/24/2006 @ 2:54pm |

Yeah, whatever Mask. Back on planet earth, people are sickened by an administration being run by guys with a long track record of horrific foreign policy decisions, and announced goals of using military violence to enforce and maintain global American hegemony. They have been true to their word and have made such issues as torture, neocrony capitalism, an illegal and unnecessary war-which has predictably increased terrorism and violence around the globe, executive secrecy (hyper-Nixon style) and abuse the most discussed and and fought over issues on the national level. Who could have predicted torture as being debatable? As opposed to our addressing other serious economic issues requiring our attention, and which had existed before BushCo made such a bloody mess: like job insecurity and stagnant wages, healthcare, reducing the socioeconomic effects/costs of industrial pollution. Instead you tirelessly criticize the few congress members putting forth a responsible effort. Yes, we know the majority of other democrats are spineless. Can you please lay off with "Conyers in the basement" garbage insults?

Posted by Oustbush at 02/24/2006 @ 4:45pm
And consider the fact that John Snow is in line to reap up to 25 million dollars in deferred payments from CSX Corp. when this Dubai deal goes through. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why he tried to slip this scam under the radar.

Posted by Astroboy108 at 02/24/2006 @ 5:35pm
If this wasn't already stated,

Cover-ups within cover-ups, cover-ups next to cover-ups, cover-ups piled on cover-ups, cover-ups' grave yards, cover-ups' medals, cover-ups' monument.

Secret Service agents say Cheney was drunk when he shot lawyer

By DOUG THOMPSON Feb 22, 2006, 07:35

Secret Service agents guarding Vice President Dick Cheney when he shot Texas lawyer Harry Whittington on a hunting outing two weeks ago say Cheney was "clearly inebriated" at the time of the shooting.

Agents observed several members of the hunting party, including the Vice President, consuming alcohol before and during the hunting expedition, the report notes, and Cheney exhibited "visible signs" of impairment, including slurred speech and erratic actions.

According to those who have talked with the agents and others present at the outing, Cheney was drunk when he gunned down his friend and the day-and-a-half delay in allowing Texas law enforcement officials on the ranch where the shooting occurred gave all members of the hunting party time to sober up.

We talked with a number of administration officials who are privy to inside information on the Vice President's shooting "accident" and all admit Secret Service agents and others say they saw Cheney consume far more than the "one beer' he claimed he drank at lunch earlier that day.

"This was a South Texas hunt," says one White House aide. "Of course there was drinking. There's always drinking. Lots of it."

One agent at the scene has been placed on administrative leave and another requested reassignment this week. A memo reportedly written by one agent has been destroyed, sources said Wednesday afternoon.

Cheney has a long history of alcohol abuse, including two convictions of driving under the influence when he was younger. Doctors tell me that someone like Cheney, who is taking blood thinners because of his history of heart attacks, could get legally drunk now after consuming just one drink.

Posted by Bushfools at 02/24/2006 @ 5:39pm
I f*ckin' KNEW it all along. Where's the blood test on Whittington? The hospital would not say whether or not they took samples. What bullshit! Of course they took samples. Aren't there any Bush/Cheney haters at that hospital? Rat those bastards out! I loathe and despise this entire administration!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Astroboy108 at 02/24/2006 @ 6:08pm
Secret Service agents guarding Vice President Dick Cheney when he shot Texas lawyer Harry Whittington on a hunting outing two weeks ago say Cheney was "clearly inebriated" at the time of the shooting.

Posted by BUSHFOOLS 02/24/2006 @ 5:39pm

auwh, they're just good 'ol boys try'n to have some fun. what's a few lies amounst friends?

Posted by zhong at 02/24/2006 @ 6:23pm
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/printer_8184.shtml

"We've known these people for years. They are honest and wouldn't call us, telling us a lie," Salinas said.

Like all elected officials in Kenedy County, Salinas owes his job to the backing and financial support of Katherine Armstrong, owner of the ranch and the county's largest employer.

"The Armstrongs rule Kenedy County like a fiefdom," says a former employee.

Secret Service officials also took possession of all tests on Whittington's blood at the hospitals where he was treated for his wounds. When asked if a blood alcohol test had been performed on Whittington, the doctors who treated him at Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial in Corpus Christi or the hospital in Kingsville refused to answer. One admits privately he was ordered by the Secret Service to "never discuss the case with the press."

It's a sure bet that is a private doctor who treated the victim of Cheney's reckless and drunken actions can't talk to the public then any evidence that shows the Vice President drunk as a skunk will never see the light of day.

Posted by Bushfools at 02/24/2006 @ 6:26pm
its all going to happen again...more hurricanes, more mass destruction. buy some property a little inland now - should be beachfront soon...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/24/2006 @ 6:56pm
I am so sick of Mask. He has his little peeves, and he keeps bringing them up (Feingold, Conyers and the people who support/work with him). He offers nothing. He reminds me of the black-clad grad students at a local bar in Chapel Hill (it's called "Henri's--but those of us who are used to the black-clad negatron nay-sayers, who pretend they don't have an agenda while cleverly mocking anyone who deeply cares about anything--anyway, the rest of us started calling it "Ennui's.") Mask has a corner table reserved.

But he's also a liar. He pretends to wisdom beyond mortal ken, and to perfect political neutrality. What nonsense. This guy wastes more space on this thread than "Libsuck" and his 27 aliases combined. Rio Bravo, NACL, LoveLiberty, and OKSportguy (of the misogynist rant on the SD abortion decision thread--remember that classic phrase, "whore of a mother?") combined.

I'm ready to read the posts of every slavering wingnut here, and reserve "ignore-listing" for that special piece of amoral, self-aggrandizing, bit of insidious propaganda-peddlar, Mask.

But that would only make him more self-satisfied and smug. So I won't ignore-list him. I'll just ignore him.

Posted by LisaJo at 02/24/2006 @ 7:13pm
Lisa, nothing to say on the abortion issue? you are presumably a woman, and that point of view has been in short supply.

Posted by johannesrolf at 02/24/2006 @ 7:43pm
Lisa, sorry wrong thread. but I would be interested in your views on that thread

Posted by johannesrolf at 02/24/2006 @ 7:49pm
LISAJO,

What did you ever decide to teach your students about President's Day?

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/24/2006 @ 8:49pm
"its all going to happen again...more hurricanes"

I saw a report on global warming on 60 Minutes. (Maybe some of you saw it.) Yes, scientists are saying that it is responsible for the screwy weather patterns we are witnessing, for the tsunami out near Singapore last year, for Khatrina, and many other things. The polar ice cap is melting at an alarming rate. They are saying that the polar bear may become extinct by the end of the century.

We (the human race) MUST do something about global warming. We are running out of time. The rest of humanity is willing to make sacrifices; why aren't we?

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/24/2006 @ 9:00pm
Someone please respond to me, I need some intellectual feedback.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/24/2006 @ 9:06pm
We (the human race) MUST do something about global warming. We are running out of time. The rest of humanity is willing to make sacrifices; why aren't we?

Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/24/2006 @ 9:00pm |

Because we're number 1!! We are superior to the world in everthing, and rather than look outside the narrow confines of our own smug ethnocentricsm, we continue to slog forward, fulfilling our assigned roles as American consumers. Don't question the government when they appear suspiciously incompetent and corrupt--just continue to live within the societal parameters so graciously crafted and laid forth by the imperial class; themselves living under the conviction that they are entitled to privilege and power, and should be the ones making the crucial decisions which affect us all. We are to remain overworked, underpaid, overstressed, overburdened with debt, islolated, outperformed by our more intelligent-more attentive to long term goals competitors, and out the way of the important people, like Cheney and Bush. The decisions which impact our society and world are made by those financial lords who decide where the capital produced by industry, and the resources of government are to be invested and allocated. A small fraction of our society makes the economic and political choices which determine why we do not follow the rest of the world in making such sacrifices. However, the recently acquired knowledge of the consequences of fossil fuel use and other destructive industrial behaviors are forcing us to sign up with the others attentive to logic and rational thinking. The selfishness and stupid obstruction to change is showing signs of weakness. The awful realities of our lifestyles are encouraging many of us to wake up and take responsibility for our actions. The momentum for change is building. It will happen, Frank. It has to.

Posted by Oustbush at 02/24/2006 @ 10:16pm
Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/24/2006 @ 9:00pm

Frank,

Did that show actually mention "for the tsunami out near Singapore last year"? I had thought it was caused by an earthquake.

Eric

Posted by malcontent3 at 02/25/2006 @ 12:00am
"The rest of humanity is willing to make sacrifices; "

What, exactly,are they doing that we are not? And who are they(rest of humanity)? China, India, ..who as I would like to know and what it is that they are doing...

Posted by john maasch at 02/25/2006 @ 10:30am
Malcontent/Eric,

No, that was my own twisted syntax speaking there.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 12:29pm
"The rest of humanity is willing to make sacrifices; "

What, exactly,are they doing that we are not? And who are they(rest of humanity)? China, India, ..who as I would like to know and what it is that they are doing...

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 02/25/2006 @ 10:30am |

Hey John,

I actually didn't mean to categorize so broadly; I was thinking more of the industrialized nations, who, like the U.S., have postions of wealth and privilege and are better positioned to make the necessary tecnological changes so as to more efficiently utilize limited resources and reduce harmful polluting behaviors. The European countries are promoting a more cautious approach to the introduction of chemicals into our environment and diets. This is referred to as the Precautionary Principle(U.S. industry is frightened that this will become official policy): where the burden of proof should be placed on the industries introducing chemicals, as opposed to waiting until negative health or ecological effects are proven later, which is much more difficult to isolate and determine(you can imagine the data: cancer, illness) as the variables can be enormous once the chemical is released into the environment.

Their populations tend to be more educated as to the effects of lifestyles and make the effort to understand the consequences, thereby forcing their governments to respond. I don't have to point out that the Green Party originated in Germany. Sweden is currently attempting to reducue their dependence on fossil fuels to zero. Obviously, the Europeans are struggling to emphasize the need to address Climate Change, now rather than later. Besides, these changes can actually be thought of as less of a sacrifice and more as responsible planning. How long do we need to continue along with same inefficient resouces and industrial methodologies because some are benefitting disproportionatly and have the power and influence to impede the political leadership from facing the problem responsibly? Remember, governments influence and can even create markets. We can sacrifice for terrorism prevention but not for preserving a healthy planet?

I am not sure about the affairs of India, though there are many things about their leadership that are frightening. This also applies to China, but as far as sacrifice: that is culturally indoctrinated in the culture. I know that you're aware of this because you referenced Asian society with regard to your own family this past week. The individual is placed below the larger society in most Asian cultures, so they all sacrifice to some degree. China proclaims a desire to avoid the whole western style of industrialization; intending to commit to cleaner technologies. When and if this happens, who knows, but at least they are saying and thinking about such strategies. Freheit, I believe, is currently in China for work, so perhaps he can illuminate when he returns, on the Chinese developments or nondevelopments.

Posted by Oustbush at 02/25/2006 @ 12:37pm
very nice, OUSTBUSH, you have succeeded in elevating the discussion, something definitely in short supply here

Posted by johannesrolf at 02/25/2006 @ 12:49pm
Bush appointed Chertoff to follow the 9/11 money trail in heading up Operation Greenquest. What Bush was really doing was tasking Chertoff with covering up the money trail.

The money trail apparently led to among other players, the UAE. Hush money and payback comes in many forms. UAE provided Chertoff's Department of Homeland Security with $100 million in the aftermath of Katrina. CNN openly questioned if this may have been a bribe to approve the port transaction.

Bush ordered Operation Greenquest shut down before a final report could be provided. Chertoff's claim that he was unaware of this transaction until the last couple weeks is a FANTASTIC LIE.

Who does Chertoff really work for? Not the American people. Who has the ability to fire Chertoff? Apparently no one.

Bush works for Chertoff.

Who does Chertoff represent?

FOLLOW THE BUSH / CHERTOFF PROTECTION RACKET�

Speaking of connecting the 9/11 dots�guess who was in charge ot retracing the money trail on "Operation Greenquest?"

Well, that would be Michael Chertoff�

http://www.usatoday.com/ news/ washington/ 2005-01-11-chertoff-side_x.htm

Chertoff played key role on 9/11 By Kevin Johnson and Mimi Hall, USA TODAY WASHINGTON -- In the minutes after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, while Attorney General John Ashcroft was rushing back from Milwaukee, Michael Chertoff was calling the shots.

Chertoff, then chief of the Justice Department's criminal division, breached the prickly territorial lines that have long divided the Justice Department from the FBI. From a fifth-floor office at FBI headquarters, above the streams of panicked people who flooded Pennsylvania Avenue, he set up shop in the bureau's crisis center. For the next 20 hours, he directed the government's initial response to the most lethal terrorist attack in U.S. history.

Chertoff would spend the next two years serving as a central figure in formulating U.S. anti-terrorism policy -- from the effort to secretly detain hundreds of Middle Easterners in the USA, to increasing the FBI's authority to conduct domestic surveillance at religious gatherings and other public events.

Civil rights advocates say Chertoff's record raises serious questions about his fitness for the job. Gregory Nojeim, associate director of the ACLU's Washington legislative office, said Chertoff's tenure at Justice is the most troubling. Chertoff was one of the architects of the USA Patriot Act, which provided law enforcement broader surveillance authority.

"Michael Chertoff's record suggests that he sees the Bill of Rights as an obstacle to national security," Nojeim said. The nomination "should spur a search of his entire record on civil liberties."

http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department, may have shielded from criminal prosecution a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden while in charge of the U.S. Government's 9.11 investigation.

"But in a hint of the gravity of his legal predicament, he was represented in court by Michael Chertoff, the former U.S. attorney in Newark and counsel to U.S. Sen. Alfonse D'Amato's Whitewater investigation." Link

Yes, the soon-to-be Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff represented a known bin Laden operative. Perhaps more troubling, Chertoff also headed the U.S.'s investigation into the September 11th attack. From the New Jersey Law Journal, August 4, 2003:

"The Sept. 11 investigation was supervised by Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff, head of the U.S. Criminal Justice Division, who is now a Third Circuit judge." Link

More on Chertoff from the New Yorker, November 5, 2001:

"Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, Chertoff's office has become the funnel for what is probably the most important criminal investigation in American history, as prosecutors and F.B.I. investigators pour in to seek the boss's approval. What leads can we use from the search of a hijacker's car in Portland, Maine? Where do the hijackers' credit-card records lead?� For day-to-day decisions, Chertoff has the last word"�

WOW, what a coincidence�

And why has there never been a final report filed by Chertoff on Operation Greenquest that reveals the money trail behind 9/11?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ content/ article/ 2005/ 12/ 21/ AR2005122102327_5.html

The White House and the FBI Killed Operation Greenquest, Michael Chertoff's Faux Search To Track The Funding For 9/11

The strongest pushback came from the Justice Department, where the mention of DHS inspired jokes about duct tape and chartreuse threat levels. Justice officials believed DHS had "too much focus on marketing and not enough on substantive delivery," in the words of one aide to then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft. "They were consumed with their public perception," said Mark Corallo, an Ashcroft spokesman.

Indeed, one of the new department's biggest intramural furors was a branding fight with the FBI. It began when the director of a new DHS agency known as Immigration and Customs Enforcement -- or ICE -- decided to keep the catchy acronym but change the name to Investigation and Criminal Enforcement. The FBI, it turned out, had some proprietary feelings about the word "investigation."

At the FBI's insistence, the White House had already forced ICE to give up its Operation Greenquest program investigating terrorism financing -- and forced Ridge to sign a memo pledging to keep his department away from similar investigations. But Ridge thought this spat was just silly; nobody was going to mistake ICE for the FBI.

Nevertheless, the White House told Ridge to back off.

BUSH KILLED OPERATION GREENQUEST.

CHERTOFF'S JOB WAS TO HIDE THE 9/11 MONEY TRAIL.

HE WAS REWARDED WITH HIS NEW JOB.

GOT IT?

And now Chertoff claims not to have been involved with the approval of the UAE Port Deal? It was UAE who provided Chertoff's department with $100 mil. in the aftermath of Katrina. CNN asks...was it a bribe to approve the Port deal?

Was it part of the payback from the Greenquest coverup?

What percentage of the deal goes to Chertoff and Bush?

Posted by plunger at 02/25/2006 @ 1:18pm
very nice, OUSTBUSH, you have succeeded in elevating the discussion, something definitely in short supply here

Posted by JOHANNESROLF 02/25/2006 @ 12:49am |

Thanks, Johannesrolf. It seems as though conversation can elevate when the slogans and politically cheapened labels/stereotypes are lessened or abandoned in favor of the actual realities and details. I still recall reading about the Appollo Alliance people, who traveled around to middle America locations to speak to average people about the details of implementing alternative energy-based development and the potential jobs which would result. The people listened and responded very positively, also reacting with some passion and excitement over such possiblilites. The project members were careful to stick to the details, avoiding politically charged terms like "environmental." These terms can distract from meaningful discussion and focus.

Posted by Oustbush at 02/25/2006 @ 1:23pm
"The rest of humanity is willing to make sacrifices; "

What, exactly,are they doing that we are not? And who are they(rest of humanity)? China, India, ..who as I would like to know and what it is that they are doing...

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 02/25/2006 @ 10:30am |

Obviously (isn't it obvious?) I was referring to things like the Kyoto accords, the willingness of the Europeans (and others) to make cutbacks in greenhouse emissions (even at the risk of slower productivity and smaller profits), etc. In short, much of the rest of humanity seems willing and able to make certain sacrifices in order to actually DO SOMETHING (which is the point) about the global warming problem which is threatening us all. My question was (and is) WHY are WE here in America so seemingly unwilling to make some of those sacrifices that others are willing to make? Why do we want to be part of the problem and not part of the solution? Why don't we get on the bandwagon already, and act? I am still waiting for an answer.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 2:21pm
And yes, for you right-wingers, my question was somewhat rhetorical. As you suspect of me, I believe that a big part of the reason we don't act is because this current administration represents the interests of those who's profits might very well be threatened if we make the necessary adjustments in greenhouse gas emissions.

But don't be too upset with me, I'm only stating the truth.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 2:26pm
profits good, gargantuan profits at the expense of the common weal not so good. Maasch who always sings the praises of big business, ignores the many giant corporations who have put profits ahead of their responsibilty to society, which makes their existence possible in the first place. I am thinking specifically of the recent revelations that the chromium industry hid damaging health reports, in other words lied to be able to continue policies which harm their workers

Posted by johannesrolf at 02/25/2006 @ 2:31pm
It seems as though conversation can elevate when the slogans and politically cheapened labels/stereotypes are lessened or abandoned in favor of the actual realities and details.

Posted by OUSTBUSH 02/25/2006 @ 1:23pm

Realist.

;o)

Eric

Posted by malcontent3 at 02/25/2006 @ 4:11pm
LISAJO and LEGBA are teachers? very disturbing news, I weep for their students.

Posted by CPT at 02/25/2006 @ 6:02pm
And yes, for you right-wingers, my question was somewhat rhetorical. As you suspect of me, I believe that a big part of the reason we don't act is because this current administration represents the interests of those who's profits might very well be threatened if we make the necessary adjustments in greenhouse gas emissions.

But don't be too upset with me, I'm only stating the truth.

Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/25/2006 @ 2:26pm | ignore this person

Frank, I agree, although I would add that the democrats are not free from such interests. There are distinctions, though, as the republicans have no qualms to appointing industry lobbyists and hacks to the regulatory agencies designed to protect the public commons from the ravages of those very same industries, and their one dimensional goals.

As Johannesrolf pointed out above, it is not a problem that American businesses are seeking and making profits, the problem is with their methods: how those profits are utilized, the unaccounted for costs which are transferred from the corporation to the public (also suppressing crucial information concerning their products and associated health risks to humans and environment), treating the most essential component of the business: labor, as if it is expendable and superfluous to the interests of investors and upper management (who retain all power and privileges-as corporations are extremely antidemocratic), prioritizing the demands of the short term investors over research and development and long term strategies. It doesn't have to be this way, as one can easily observe the methods of Japanese corporations, who do not treat their workers as cheap commodities, and are willing to take short term cuts and sacrifices so as to benefit long term goals. That is why it makes sense and remains more efficient for business to function more in tune with the Asian model, which are increasingly squeezing our poorly-run American corporations and dominating more markets.

Frank, I mention these details because I believe them to be relevent as to why our industries are unresponsive to such pressing issues as Climate Change. American style capitalism has become dangerous not only to its domestic constituents, but to the entire world.

Posted by Oustbush at 02/25/2006 @ 9:49pm
LISAJO and LEGBA are teachers? very disturbing news, I weep for their students.

Posted by CPT 02/25/2006 @ 6:02pm | ignore this person

Cpt,

Why don't you elaborate specifically on why you believe Legba and Lisajo's students would suffer. They strike me as being two individuals who appear to be very educated and very thougthful concerning their postions. It is within your field of work, that one must qualify the fact that the military is primarily an instrument of violence--but "you can also acquire other valuable skills too."

Posted by Oustbush at 02/25/2006 @ 10:06pm
Posted by OUSTBUSH 02/25/2006 @ 9:49pm | ignore this person

Good post Oust. The only thing I would add is that, there was a time when the Democrats were considerably LESS (to whatever extent they are now) representing the interests of the wealthy and corportions at the expense of the common good. It was a time when a now forgotten and largely discredited economic theory/philosophy called "liberalism" (basically invented by FDR) was generally the norm in this country. That liberalism produced the largest, most prosperous middle class in the history of humanity. An incredible amount of wealth was produced, and it generally benefitted a fairly large swath of the entire American citizenry (unlike in recent years). LIBERALISM proiduced that; not laissez-faire, libertarian, trickle-down right-wing radical free market capitalism, but FDR/Truman/LBJ liberalism. Liberalism was capitalism at its best. Capitalism with a human face. What we so DESPERATELY need to return to. What the Democrats (at their best)once stood for.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 10:35pm
Sorry to continually burst FREEDOMPLEASE and OUSTBUSH's bubble...

but Conyers AT MOST gets 38 signators to his constant "impeachment resolution"...and lately has no more than 25.

He holds silly "Hey, kids, let's put on a hearing in my Dad's barn" "hearings"...has 1-2 guests show up to "testify"...and the same 20-25 guys from "Move on" who live the Washington-Baltimore corridor as the enthralled audience.

No Pelosi....No Steny Hoyer...no Dem outside of the Progressive Caucus or Black Caucus...no help from Reid in the Senate.

And NOBODY covering it on anything "larger" than CSPAN-III.

Posted by Mask at 02/25/2006 @ 10:44pm
HA HA HA AMERICA

http://festival.sundance.org/2006/watch/film.aspx?which=400

watch this, u morose bastards...har har

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2006 @ 11:13pm
My wish is that radical leftists would put their energy into resuscitating (economic) liberalism. Forget socialism, which is a pipe dream, never works and never will, and is never going to happen anyway. Forget social democracy; only in Europe is that conceivable and politically possible. The only alternative to the right-wing, libertarian, radical free-market trickle-down plutocrartic juggernaut is old fashioned FDR/LBJ type liberalism. So I invite leftists of various stripes to join in the fight to revive economic liberalism.

Listen to these stirring words, from the mouth of the greatest liberal, and greatest President this country has ever had, who understood the importance of controlling economic forces and subordinating them to the common good:

"Rulers of the exchange of mankind's goods have failed, through their stubbornness and incompetence...they know only the rules of a generation of self-seekers....there must be an end to a conduct in banking and in business which too often has given to a sacred trust the likeness of a callous and selfish wrongdoing...we now realize as we have never before our independence on each other; that we cannot merely take but we must give as well; that if we are to go forward, we must move as a trained and loyal army willing to sacrifice for the good of a common discipline, because without such discipline no progress is made, no leadership becomes effective."

"we must find practical controls over blind economic forces and blindly selfish men...We refused to leave the problems of our common welfare to be solved by the winds of chance and hurricanes of disaster...we have begun to bring private autocratic powers in to their proper subordination to the public's government...We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics...in the long run economic morality pays...This new understanding undermines the old admiration of worldly success as such. We're beginning to abandon our tolerance of the abuse of power by those who betray the elementary decencies of life."

--President Franklin D. Roosevelt, Inaugural Addresses of 1933, and 1937, respectively.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 11:28pm
If a politician spoke those words today, I have no doubt but that Rush Limbaugh and his army of sycophants, Bill O'Lielly and others, would be all over this blog and all over tv calling the speaker a "socialist," saying that he was advocating the end of capitalism and so on.

Unfortunately, it may take another Great Depression for our nation to wise up and rediscover economic liberalism.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/25/2006 @ 11:31pm
HA HA HA AMERICA

THE CORRECT URL

http://festival.sundance.org/2006/watch/index.aspx?guide=all

i hope...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2006 @ 01:48am
The source of the "intelligence" about Iraq's WMD program was Israel. Bush claims that French Intelligence believed it and the Germans believed it and the British believed it, but it was Israel that manufactured the purported evidence that they believed. This is also why the Libby / Plame fiasco is just the tip of the iceberg. They got sloppy.

Everything you want to know about the selling of the war, and for whom it was sold, is right here:

The Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission states the following:

"Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel," Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of 9/11 and the future of the war on the al-Qaeda terrorist organization.

"And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell," said Zelikow.

The statements are the first to surface from a source closely linked to the Bush administration acknowledging that the war, which has so far cost the lives of nearly 600 U.S. troops and thousands of Iraqis, was motivated by Washington's desire to defend the Jewish state.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0329-11.htm

Karen Kwiatkowski saw the comings and goings of Israeli Generals to Cheney's "Office Of Special Plans." She noted that they came and went frequently without signing the visitor log.

Scroll through the following and see what Karen Kwiatkowski has to say about David Wumser and others:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=david_wurmser

Israeli Intelligence was not only responsible for planting the fake evidence to justify the invasion of Iraq, but for enabling the 9/11 attacks through their network of over 200 spies within the US in the months preceding 9/11. They created the pretext for the invasion of the Middle East by their pawns (our troops), and planted the evidence to sell it to the American Sheeple - directly following the plan that they themselves had written years before.

FOX Investigative Series:

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information," a U.S. official told Fox News at the time.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

ABC 20/20 Investigation:

http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/ABCNEWS_com_Were_Israel is_Detained_Sept_11_Spies.htm

Here is a copy of the full DEA Report on the 200 Israeli Art Students caught spying within the United States:

http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm

They did it all under Cheney's direction.

Foreign Agent Chertoff's job was the coverup (Operation Greenquest).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/21/AR200512 2102327_5.html

http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66175

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=86989

THE UAE Ports deal is either a result of blackmail, bribery, or more likely - both.

You want to know about foreign government owned companies in in charge of security at sensitive US facilites?

ICTS International are an Israeli-owned firm which is registered in the Netherlands, and is the world's premier aviation security company. ICTS International were the company who ran the security arrangements at ALL the airports from where the hijacked airliners departed from on the morning of September 11th, 2001.

American supporters of Israel were delighted to learn that an Israeli company, Magal Security Systems - owned in part by the government of Israel - is in charge of security for the most sensitive nuclear power and weapons storage facilities in the United States.

The largest perimeter security company in the world, Magal started out as a division of Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI) - which was owned in part by the government of Israel. In recent years, however, Magal evolved into a publicly-traded company, although IAI (and thus the government of Israel) still holds a substantial share in the highly successful firm.

At the moment, Magal has four US-based subsidiaries: two in California, Stellar Security Products, Inc. and Perimeter Products Inc., as well as the New York-based Smart Interactive Systems, Inc., and the Virginia-based Dominion Wireless, Inc.

http://planetquo.com/Bad-Company

And remember those NSA wiretaps and how freaked out people were about it?

Comverse Infosys, a subsidiary of an Israeli-run private telecommunications firm, with offices throughout the U.S. It provides wiretapping equipment for law enforcement.

Comverse works closely with the Israeli government, and under special programs, gets reimbursed for up to 50 percent of its research and development costs by the Israeli Ministry of Industry and Trade. But investigators within the DEA, INS and FBI have all told Fox News that to pursue or even suggest Israeli spying through Comverse is considered career suicide.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6480.htm

On the day of the September 11, 2001 attacks, former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked how they could affect Israeli-U.S. relations. His quick reply was: "It's very good��.Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)".

Israeli Prime Minister ARIEL SHARON reportedly said: "Now we and the Americans are in the same fight."

Less than one month after the Twin Towers fell...this:

On October 3, 2001, I.A.P. News reported that according to Israel Radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael an acrimonious argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his foreign Minister Shimon Peres. Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed incessant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and "turn the US against us. "Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying "don't worry about American pressure, we the Jewish people control America."

http://www.mediamonitors.net/khodr49.html

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 06:28am
PLUNGER

Maybe you'll answer this...since RESE can't.

How do 500 bloggers at www.forbiddenknowledge.net....

stop a "world-spanning conspiracy of the most powerful and wealthy who control ALL the media, the military, law enforcement and can blow up levees with only Louis Farrakhan knowing the 'the Truth"?

If these guys are THAT power ....is the 2006/2008 election cycle going to stop them?

Posted by Mask at 02/26/2006 @ 08:45am
I don't believe that elections are relevant any more.

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 08:59am
OUSTBUSH

Judgin by their posts(LISAJO and LEGBA), which are particularly infantile and prententious, their characterization of differeing viewpoints is an intolerant one, not conducive toward a suppossedly enlightened education.

Those who cannot tolerate those with whom they disagree with unless to foolishly and non-sensically attack them. This is the best evidence of narrow-minded thinking.

Posted by CPT at 02/26/2006 @ 09:41am
PLUNGER

How did you get like this? Was JFK (the movie) your epiphany?

Posted by CPT at 02/26/2006 @ 09:44am
FRANK

FDR spoke those words in a different time. Economic liberalism fails in the long run. It inhibits intiative.

FDR was not the Greatest, that disctintion belongs to Washington or LINCOLN, all others fall BEHIND them.

Posted by CPT at 02/26/2006 @ 09:50am
Plunger,

Is there ANYTHING wrong and bad in America and the world that CANNOT be traced back to Israel?

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/26/2006 @ 10:42am
Plunger,

Is there ANYTHING wrong and bad in America and the world that CANNOT be traced back to Israel?

Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/26/2006 @ 10:42am | ignore this person

Frank:

That is a ridiculous question. I'm mentioning these issues only because they are exceptionally relevant in understanding what has brought us to this point and because YOU WON'T LEARN ANY OF THIS IN THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

According to the US media, what has Israel done wrong in the last five years?

Is AIPAC good for America?

Is foreign spying in America good for America?

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 11:12am
PLUNGER

How did you get like this? Was JFK (the movie) your epiphany?

Posted by CPT 02/26/2006 @ 09:44am | ignore this person

CPT:

Were you affected by 9/11? In what lasting way?

I hate being lied to. We were lied to. Bin Laden didn't do it.

What are you doing about it? I'm exposing it...if only for the purpose of allowing my fellow countrymen to know where the truth lies.

There is no plausible explanation for the story of the Dancing Israelis - or their subsequent release without charges after having failed SEVEN polygraph tests.

Doesn't that PISS YOU OFF?

There is a video tape of these foreign spies laughing and celebrating as the planes struck the towers. They filmed it themselves. Don't you feel like that tape is something that you should have the right to view? Why is our own government keeping the truth from us?

What would it take to piss you off? Are you content with AIPAC spying on us and drumming up a war against Iran?

Are you willing to act? What are you personally willing to do?

"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 11:21am
A division of Cheney's Haliburton was recently awarded over $300 million to build DETENTION CAMPS within the United States Of America.

Does anyone here favor that? If so, why?

Is anyone here opposed to that? If so, what are you willing to do about it?

Carl Rove's new strategy from this point forward is on display in the headlines and the talking head news shows as of today:

PROTEST = DANGEROUS

The FALSE CHOICE perpetuated by Warner on Meet The Press was that we either approve the UAE Ports deal or they will prevent us from supporting our troops by making their own port facilites available to support our war against every Arab nation in the middle east with oil under its sand.

This is implied blackmail by a US Senator on behalf of a foreign government during a time of war.

PROTEST = DANGER

This is the strategy from Rove going forward.

Get used to it.

Better yet...FIGHT IT!

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 11:31am
Why did the Administration lie about the number of ports involved in the deal?

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20060223-051657-49 81r

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 11:32am
i hope...

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 02/26/2006 @ 01:49am | ignore this person

if not, expend effort to find it,lazy americans - ha ha ha

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2006 @ 1:05pm
Plunger,

Were the 9/11 terrorist attacks orchestrated by Israel?

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/26/2006 @ 1:07pm
Plunger,

Is it true that the Mossad told Jewish employees of the World Trade towers the day before 9/11/01 NOT to go to work the next day?

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/26/2006 @ 1:08pm
Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/26/2006 @ 1:08pm | ignore this person

HA HA HA - INTELLIGENT AMERICANS TALK ABOUT HILLBILLY CEO'S OIL GRAB MONEY WASTING DISASTER - COMMUNIST CHINA LEARN HOW TO MAKE MONEY BETTER THAN AMERICA - BUSY MAKING ALL OF FASCIST HILLBILLY STUFF - BUYING UP HILLBILLY EMPIRE - DONT WORRY THOUGH - CHINA COMMUNIST - PROVIDE MINIMAL SOCIAL SERVICES ONE DAY FOR HILLBILLIE EMPIRE'S LAZY, IGNORANT CITIZENS - U UNDERSTAND, FRANK - WE MAKE U ADMINISTRATOR - HA HA HA

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2006 @ 2:01pm
IBBLEBLIBBLE on permanent ignore

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/26/2006 @ 3:00pm
IBBLEBLIBBLE on permanent ignore

Posted by FRANK THOMAS 02/26/2006 @ 3:00pm | ignore this person

i wonder if he watched the movie?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2006 @ 8:01pm
Frank:

Rather than ask me, why not explain 9/11 and the relationship that Israel had to these events from your own perspective.

My opinion isn't important to you.

Posted by plunger at 02/26/2006 @ 9:25pm
frank, u gotta see the movie to see what ibble was referencing. it was no affront to u.

Posted by loveloki at 02/26/2006 @ 9:50pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 02/26/2006 @ 9:50pm | ignore this person

i might have ignored me too if i had not seen the movie...or if i had no sense of humor...HA HA HA!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2006 @ 11:07pm
ibble, i watched the movie again. sick huh? and the 8000 billion was a little joke. they said was it a rounding error--will it be next month? so we owe them about 800 billion is all. so u can relax now. cuz that's pocket change, right?

Posted by loveloki at 02/26/2006 @ 11:59pm
Sun Feb 26, 5:07 PM ET

Fran Townsend, Homeland Security Advisor to President Bush, was on Fox News Sunday this morning and proudly stated something about as preposterous as anything to come out of the White House this week.

She reasoned that we weren't alarmed about the British company managing our major ports after the London bombings, so why should we be alarmed about the Dubai Ports deal. Thanks, Fran, for making me spew Cheerios through my nose.

First, until this past week many of us had no idea our government was in the business of routinely selling management of our sea ports to foreign companies.

Second, I don't recall anything in the 9/11 Commission Report about British royals meeting with Osama Bin Laden for weenie roasts in Afghanistan. The UAE emirs did. Never mind that Dubai was a conduit for the 9/11 plot. The UAE didn't break ties with the Taliban until September 22 -- 11 days after 9/11. As recently as September 2004, USA Today reported that Dubai continued to be a haven for terrorist plotters.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20060226/cm_huffpost/016382;_ylt=A86.I1 TQPQJEvfQAFQ79wxIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

Now in context, I have a theory that says that some within The Bush Administration conspired with Israel and other significant global players to pull off 9/11.

Even the 9/11 Commission Report stated that UAE played some role.

If my theory of 9/11 is accurate, then what was to be UAE's reward for playing its part?

Why is it that Israel conducted its first-ever mission to Dubai in the months preceding this attempted acquisition? Why was UAE desparate to keep its contacts with Israel out of the press?

Should we just assume that these contacts in this time frame were coincidental? Or should we explore the possibility that Israel is somehow involved in this port deal?

If Israel is involved in this deal, what conclusions can be drawn? What questions should be asked? Why would Israel send a mission to a country that purportedly aided in the 9/11 attacks - AND denies Israel's very right to exist?

That doesn't make sense, now does it?

What does make sense?

Michael Chertoff was put in charge of Operation Greenquest, an effort purported to track down the funding behind 9/11.

Ever seen the Operation Greenquest Final Report?

No you haven't. Why? Chertoff's real job was to coverup the money trail.

Chertoff is an Israeli national.

Considering AIPAC's power and control over the US Government, and their purported distain for everything Arab, where is the outrage on this port deal?

That fact alone should raise eyebrows.

When things just don't add up, I think it's wise to consider...why?

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 07:39am
I don't believe that elections are relevant any more.

Posted by PLUNGER 02/26/2006 @ 08:59am | ignore this person

Then what the HELL good is all this posting on blogs going to do?

I mean, I realize you're a paranoid...but does that preclude any LOGIC? If elections don't matter, and it's you and RESE and maybe 500-1000 people cut & pasting articles from "www.israelcontrolsyourminds.org"...so what?

Posted by Mask at 02/27/2006 @ 09:07am
For starters, exposing the Diebold election fraud conspiracy requires that the MAINSTREAM MEDIA actually report on it.

Exposing the truth of 9/11 also requires that the MAINSTREAM MEDIA actually report on it.

Forcing the MAINSTREAM MEDIA TO OPERATE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST is the reason to continue to keep these stories in the public eye, and generate enough angst among the general public and any Media executives with one ounce of moral fiber to start insiting that the "news" actually include NEWS.

Free and fair elections would make all the difference - provided that an informed citizenry is given the knowledge upon which to base their decisions, and the tools to make their preferences known at the ballot box.

http://theunjustmedia.com/Jewish%20Zionists/Israel's%20Sacred%20Terroris m.htm

http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/zionist_plan_for_the_m iddle_east.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHI20050 920&articleId=982

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=242

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring2.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315296.shtml

http://www.counterpunch.com/rajiva02252006.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476913/posts

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/184FCB4A-39BD-4A0A-B38B-81FCFBD95 1BE.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2006/260206mosquebombing.ht m

http://www.middleeast.org/read.cgi?category=Magazine&num=1342&standalone =0&month=2&year=2006&function=text

http://www.alternet.org/module/printversion/32647

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 09:55am
One of the other primary reasons to invade Iraq:

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS Before the U.S. House of Representatives

February 15, 2006

The End of Dollar Hegemony

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 11:36am
PLUNGER

Lay out in small, easily understandable steps....how your "revolution that will bring down Bush/Cheney/Jewish bankers/AIPAC/the Illuminati/Secret Masters of Tibet" will happen?

Right now, you've got the "Underpants Gnomes" Plan....."Step 1---steal underpants.....Step 2----..........Step 3----Profits!"

So....how long will it take for your cut & pastes on blogs like "The Nation" for...say....any news source NOT on a website to report it....and then it become a majority view in the American electorate....and then Bush and Co to be impeached, AIPAC to be run out of the country, and "those who know The Truth" to save us?.....simple time-table would be helpful to start?

Or is it that you're just ....well, let's just say....you haven't thought it out that far?

Posted by Mask at 02/27/2006 @ 12:31pm
Mask:

Do recognize the problems?

Do you have ANY solutions?

What steps are you taking?

What are you willing to risk for our Republic?

When the Whole White House is Criminal, How Do You Impeach an Entire Administration?

by James Charles www.dissidentvoice.org February 27, 2006

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Feb06/Charles27.htm

excerpt:

FBI Director Robert Mueller violates his oath of office by allowing agents to illegally spy on citizens only exercising their constitutional right of protest. Michael Chertoff, who is so incompetent running Homeland Security his behavior borders on criminal, is quietly spending $387 million with a Halliburton subsidiary to construct detention camps at secret locations across America to house up to several hundred thousand people for the undefined "rapid development of new programs." And don't forget Karl Rove, who orchestrated the theft not just one but two presidential elections, new evidence dribbling out now reveals.

What are you willing to risk?

"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 12:47pm
John McLaughlin on his show, the McLaughlin Report, last Sunday in a discussion with Mort Zuckerman of US News stated:

"I was personally in Dubai 8 months ago and encountered a mission from Israel in Dubai...what do you suppose that was about?"

What are the odds it was about the Port Deal?

Considering the lengths to which the UAE has sought to kill the story of Israelis doing business in Dubai, it seems there is a lot at stake.

Not everyone is a criminal. Some in the mainstream media will be compelled to ask tougher questions. If it is learned that Israel has a hand in this Dubai Port deal, all bets are off where the media blackout is concerned.

How do you explain that Israel and Dubai are business partners on the Port Deal?

If that were proven to be true, what would that do to people's perceptions of what the hell is REALLY going on?

WHAT IS CHERTOFF UP TO?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/184FCB4A-39BD-4A0A-B38B-81FCFBD95 1BE.htm

This link is an excerpt from a Haaretz News Story, which has subsequently been spiked...why?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476913/posts

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 12:55pm
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13945827.htm

Where does a US soldier get...

A: The idea to torment a prisoner by wrapping him in an Israeli flag, and,

B: The flag to wrap him in?

What's the term for this one in Rummy's L'il Torture Handbook?

"Muslim Burrito?"

Last May Cheney appeared on Larry King. He stepped in it big time, but few people caught it. I alerted Rude Pundit and he wrote about it.

an excerpt:

Then Cheney made this statement: "In a sense, when you're at war, you keep prisoners of war until the war is over with." So, like, if, in a sense, the Gitmo campers are "prisoners of war," then, in a sense, don't they get Geneva Conventions protections?

Cheney and Gonzales have been playing a semantics game to justify torture, since "war" was never formally declared. It's pretty obvious why they chose to embark upon the path of war without ever formally declaring it - so they could not be held accountable for the War Crimes they knew they'd be committing.

Bush tells us every day that we're at war. Cheney and Gonzales tell us that we're not REALLY at war.

Problem is, Cheney is on tape stating not only that we are at war, but that we are holding "prisoners of war."

The Geneva Conventions DO APPLY, and Cheney is guilty of war Crimes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0505/30/lkl.01.html

KING: They specifically said, though, it was Guantanamo. They compared it to a gulag.

D. CHENEY: Not true. Guantanamo's been operated, I think, in a very sane and sound fashion by the U.S. military. Remember who's down there. These are people that were picked up off the battlefield in Afghanistan and other places in the global war on terror. These are individuals who have been actively involved as the enemy, if you will, trying to kill Americans. That we need to have a place where we can keep them. In a sense, when you're at war, you keep prisoners of war until the war is over with."

So this is the war without end, and these prisoners will be held forever?

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 2:30pm
PLUNGER

What the heck are YOU "risking"?.....what are you even DOING....besides cut & pasting the latest from "www.whatreallyhappened.com"?

My dead grandmother could do THAT? "I'm getting the Truth out!!!!"---PLUNGER/RESE

What a load of crap! You merely bouncing from 'link' to 'link' on the conspiracy theory web-ring, finding stuff, using the Control-C and Control-V buttons, to post how "Barbara Olson is still alive in Poland" story....and then calling yourself a "revolutionary!!!"

What ELSE are you doing?....anything OUTSIDE of your room?

Posted by Mask at 02/27/2006 @ 2:37pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 02/26/2006 @ 11:59pm | ignore this person

u keep asking that question and i keep not answering it - or even commenting...sorry...i am quitting smoking...cold turkey...what?

will watch it again, try to focus...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/27/2006 @ 2:39pm
Answering a question - with a question, is not the same as answering the question.

How does slamming me serve the cause of promoting the truth - if you post no links to refute mine?

What are YOU doing?

Posted by plunger at 02/27/2006 @ 2:46pm
Ibble

Ha Ha Ha America ws a very distubing movie.

It was the first time I saw what i've been thinking for the last year in motion picture form

Posted by Will C. at 02/27/2006 @ 3:35pm
liberty recommended the other day that all we liberals go out a hug a commie. So i took him up on it but to my suprise all the commies were in bed with all the conservatives.

And the way Long Duck Dong was checking out my ass as he was banging liberty's, I figured I'd just leave those lovebirds alone and go hug my sweety instead

Posted by Will C. at 02/27/2006 @ 3:39pm
I owe an apology to those on Mr Corn's thread here....

should have just left PLUNGER on my Ignore List with RESE, both are nuts...lazy nuts at that, given that their idea of "revolution" doesnt even involve TYPING...just some mouse clicks.

Back to "Ignore Oblivion" with him!

Posted by Mask at 02/27/2006 @ 3:53pm
lazy nuts at that, given that their idea of "revolution" doesnt even involve TYPING...just some mouse clicks.

Posted by MASK 02/27/2006 @ 3:53pm

and not being able to actually answer Plungers challange, Mask ignores him...

What did that take, one mouse click... or was it two?

Posted by Will C. at 02/27/2006 @ 4:00pm
ibble, wow, good job quitting smoking and good luck!!!

Posted by loveloki at 02/27/2006 @ 4:22pm
FBI Director Robert Mueller violates his oath of office by allowing agents to illegally spy on citizens only exercising their constitutional right of protest. Michael Chertoff, who is so incompetent running Homeland Security his behavior borders on criminal, is quietly spending $387 million with a Halliburton subsidiary to construct detention camps at secret locations across America to house up to several hundred thousand people for the undefined "rapid development of new programs." And don't forget Karl Rove, who orchestrated the theft not just one but two presidential elections, new evidence dribbling out now reveals.

Posted by PLUNGER 02/27/2006 @ 12:47am

Plunger, it helps when you cut things down to readable proportions, and responding directly to mask, who does not respond in kind, is also a good tactic. I know this Haliburton contract is valid, because I went to their website and read it myself. They are designing these facilities for immigrants, apparently. Large numbers of immigrants. Why such such detention camps will be needed is the unknown.

Posted by Oustbush at 02/27/2006 @ 11:28pm
FRANK

FDR spoke those words in a different time. Economic liberalism fails in the long run. It inhibits intiative.

FDR was not the Greatest, that disctintion belongs to Washington or LINCOLN, all others fall BEHIND them.

Posted by CPT 02/26/2006 @ 09:50am |

Cpt,

Your phony conservative economic policies have yet to match the 25 year post second world war period of economic liberalism...but they have delivered stagnant wages for the majority of American workers, and increased poverty.

Yes, FDR was speaking in a different time...a time of hope. FDR delivered victory and prosperity. Nixon-Reagan-Bush-Bush have delivered fear, hatred, and insecurity. Thanks for ruining our nation!

Posted by Oustbush at 02/27/2006 @ 11:53pm
The Port Deal Must Be Stopped.

In Bush's own words..."MY GOVERNMENT" has examined this and there are no security concerns.

Last evening in a closed and confidential session, that statement was proven to be a lie.

ANY TIME a government controlled foreign enterprise seeks to acquire any assets which COULD have an adverse effect on US SECURITY, the LAW states that in the event ANY concern is raised with respect to national security - IT AUTOMATICALLY TRIGGERS A FULL 45 DAY INVESTIGATION BY CONGRESS.

When the Coast Guard raised a security concern, the conditions were met to trigger an investigation - period.

The law does not allow for the concerns to be overcome in smoke-filled secret meetings. The law requires instant transparency and sunlight. PERIOD

That is the law.

When Bush claims he learned of this deal after it was approved, he is lying.

Rumsfeld knew and Snow knew too.

When they claim not to have known, they are lying. Period.

Once they did claim to know of the deal, their first obligation SHOULD have been to ensure that the process followed the law. Clearly the process violated the law. They know the process violated the law. They have come down on the side of violating the law and are actively promoting an illegal process.

In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation or state. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor.

This is just one more example of the Treason of this administration.

What is Israel's role in this? Why the secret missions to Dubai in the months preceding the deal?

The American People have EVERY RIGHT TO KNOW.

Posted by plunger at 02/28/2006 @ 07:13am
Oustbush:

Chertoff has contracted with a unit of Cheney's Haliburton to build detention camps in the United States

The language used in the Detention Camp matter is intentionally vague. The Rovian Headline leads the reader to believe that the entire matter is about detaining illegal aliens. Any good lawyer would tell you that the language used intentionally leaves open the possibility that these camps can be used for ANY PURPOSE DEEMED APPROPRIATED BY ZIONIST AGENT MICHAEL CHERTOFF.

Roves most recent strategy is to use the words PROTEST and DANGER in the same headline. The implication is that our national security will somehow be harmed if we protest. Senator Warner went so far as to articulate precisely that in his interview this past Sunday on Meet The Press. "If we prevent this DPW deal from going forward, the UAE will block us from using their ports to support our troops in the war on terror."

SAYS WHO?

A US Senator is blackmailing the American Public into doing a deal with a foreign government, with the threat of terror as the device?

ASSHOLE! TREASONOUS ASSHOLE!

this is not America.

Posted by plunger at 02/28/2006 @ 07:24am
Posted by WILL C. 02/27/2006 @ 4:00pm | ignore this person

Sorry, WILL....what part of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" challenge from PLUNGER should I "answer"?

Posted by Mask at 02/28/2006 @ 11:51am
Posted by MASK 02/28/2006 @ 11:51am

Start at the top... work your way down

Posted by Will C. at 02/28/2006 @ 12:02pm
WILL

Like I said, just to make it simpler.....I'm sure we could find some book that an Austrian revolutionary wrote in Landsberg prison in 1924....that would accurately sum up PLUNGER's views on "Israelis"!

Posted by Mask at 02/28/2006 @ 12:35pm
CPT can't hide anymore. The truth is out.

A first-ever survey [tinyurl.com] of U.S. troops on the ground fighting a war overseas has revealed surprising findings, not the least of which is that an overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year.

Further, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows that more than one in four (29%) thought the U.S. should pull its troops immediately.

The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College's Center for Peace and Global Studies, also showed that another 22% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq in the next six months. One in every five troops - 21% - said troops should be out between six and 12 months. Nearly a quarter - 23% - said they should stay "as long as they are needed."

This, even though the administration's propaganda has been wildly successful in duping them:

Nearly nine of every 10 - 85% - said the U.S. mission is "to retaliate for Saddam's role in the 9-11 attacks," while 77% said they believe the main or a major reason for the war was "to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq."

Hitler's propagandists were right- a lie repeated incessantly becomes the truth. But it still hasn't been able to justify to any but the most ignorant that it is anything but the worst policy disater in American history.

Posted by fromredbird at 02/28/2006 @ 12:47pm
Posted by MASK 02/28/2006 @ 12:35am

First of all "we" aren't going to do anything because Plungers challange was to you. And wasting all this time bantering with me doesn't get you off the hook.

If starting at the top and working your way down isn't your thing, start at the bottom and work your way up, start in the middle and work your way out, start at the edges and work your way in...

Plunger did his research. Now you do yours.

Posted by Will C. at 02/28/2006 @ 3:16pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 02/28/2006 @ 12:47am | ignore this person

FROMREDBIRD,

There is an article about that poll in today's NY Times Op-Ed page. The numbers are quite astounding; the right-wing is always going on and on about "supporting the troops" and so on, with the implication that what THEY (the troops) thinks really matters a lot, really counts for a lot. That being the case, one wonders how they (the right-wing) will spin those poll results.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 02/28/2006 @ 3:49pm
Plunger did his research. Now you do yours.

Posted by WILL C. 02/28/2006 @ 3:16pm | ignore this person

Gee, where do I start?....The NY Times?...Washington Post?...9/11 Commission Report?....CIA Briefing Book-2001?.....or....

At www.antichristconspiracy.com!

Posted by Mask at 02/28/2006 @ 4:31pm
Posted by MASK 02/28/2006 @ 4:31pm

Your debate is with Plunger, not with me

Posted by Will C. at 02/28/2006 @ 4:50pm
Sorry WILL

RESE and PLUNGER don't "debate"....they're religious zealots ("Church of the New Kristallnacht") and wouldn't believe ANYTHING that contradicted the Dogma.

Posted by Mask at 02/28/2006 @ 10:46pm
Posted by MASK 02/28/2006 @ 10:46pm

You don't debate either. You create hypotheticals. You give non answers to questions. You worship at the church of frivolous inanities.

You twirl in circles that go nowhere.

Posted by Will C. at 03/01/2006 @ 01:01am
Any body catch GW's interview last night on ABC national news ?

GW stated again on how the head of HSA was doing such a good job...Just as he quoted awhile back saying "Browny was doing a hell of a good job" regarding Katrina. This guy GW doesn't have a clue !!!!! Its not that I don't trust Dubi taking over the ports, its the present administration I'm worried about. Doing nothing just as they did regarding 9/11. If any body has read the 9/11 comissioners report, the signs where all there...Which reminds me...Anybody ever here that stand up comedian saying "Here's your sign" ?

Posted by djmarch at 03/01/2006 @ 12:58pm
ALL...

From MSNBC...a video exists of Bush, Brown & Chertoff discussing the things they said they "didn't know" regarding Katrina. Three Stooges episode basically. Anyone else notice that this crew has so many fuck-ups going on simultaneously that it is hard to focus on any given one. Must be part of Dubya's strategery.

Posted by leftofcenter at 03/01/2006 @ 10:28pm
Strange page breaks...Rese must be posting a whopper again.

Posted by seattlescribe at 03/02/2006 @ 02:02am
Posted by LEFTOFCENTER 03/01/2006 @ 10:28pm

So now we see where Bush was, not in the report, but on tape-- telling more lies, naturally.

Posted by Bushfools at 03/02/2006 @ 08:56am
I wonder if David Corn wonders....why HIS posts seem to attract RESE and PLUNGER more than the other guys?

Posted by Mask at 03/02/2006 @ 10:09am
LOC I heard about the videotape on the Tom Joyner Morning Show and was not surprised in the least. From what's on the tape, it seems that Michael Brown was th eleast incompetent. So, of course, he was made the scapegoat. Michael Chertoff is the incompetent who should be let go. Man, how many times are Americans gonna allow Bush to lie to them before they realize how terrible a leader he is. Leaders hold themselves accountable, they admit their mistakes, and keep their word. Bush and co. has done neither. And people want to be mad at Kanye West for what he said. I realized it's not that he doesn't like black people just people who aren't in his rich circle of friends. Hell, his mother even stated " they were poor before" so Katrina isn't so bad for them. Obviously, the apple does not fall from the tree. God, please make the hurting ( Bush administration) stop.

Posted by k330k at 03/02/2006 @ 11:18am
Bush isn't the anti-Christ, he's the anti-American people.

Posted by k330k at 03/02/2006 @ 11:19am
K33OK,

I'm sure you are familiar with the song by the Who, "Won't Get Fooled Again." Well, they were wrong. The people DO get fooled, again and again and again.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 03/02/2006 @ 12:21pm
Rese, get some sleep!

why can't you all get it through your heads? EVERYONE made mistakes. The biggest mistake was before the hurricane hit. That is the State and City responsibility. Everything else is after the fact. Buses that were supposed to pick people up never showed. Others tried riding the storm out even though they KNEW about the levey's and where they lived.

Why is NO getting all the attention? Other places and other states were hit just as bad or worse. It is a feeding frenzy because N.O. is a Democrat run city and state. Everyone else is republican...GET IT?

Posted by dancall at 03/03/2006 @ 10:10am
Yes, the Feds messed up after the hurrican hit...just to make it clear for you thick headed haters out there...

Posted by dancall at 03/03/2006 @ 10:11am
Where was W?

Posted by RESE 03/03/2006 @ 04:36am | ignore this person

BOY, if only 70% of RESE's posts were this succinct....Mr Corn's thread wouldn't be 4 pages deep...on ONE poster's posts!

Posted by Mask at 03/03/2006 @ 10:11am
I have to agree with Mask about Rese's posts. Damn, Rese can you shorten it up a bit. N ow the reason that NO gets most of the coverage is because the place was a money-maker for a lot of people(good and bad), a very hot tourist spot, and more populous than other places that were hit. It's not right but that's the way it is. And everyone needs to take the blame. State and local for not providing enough transportation for those who had none as wellas the inept government for not stepping up to the plate after Katrina hit the Gulf Coast. I also believe that Mr. Brown was the official scapegoat and that of everybody invovlved he was the least incompetent. Mr. Chertoff, on the other hand, has got to go. Red state, blue state, who gives a fuck. People were in need and their needs were not tended to in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, for them 2005 was not an election year. Both parties suck and they severely sucked during Hurricane season.

Posted by k330k at 03/03/2006 @ 2:39pm
RESE, do you work nights? Or are you unemployed? Where do you find the time. I like your enthusiasm but you are making my head hurt.

Posted by k330k at 03/03/2006 @ 2:45pm
"Economic liberalism fails in the long run. It inhibits initiative."

this is the biggest load of crap, propounded not just by this poster. what really inhibits initiative is working two or three jobs and still being in poverty.

it's called social justice, also known as protecting the weak from the strong. I don't think that most rich or super rich people want to keep others in poverty, but rather that they don't care, like many posters here, even some otherwise rational ones, you know whom I mean.

Posted by johannesrolf at 03/04/2006 @ 12:25am
one of the reasons labor was treated well during the second half of the 20th century was the threat of communism. our workers might get ideas. now that communism, at least the soviet kind is gone, the workers be damned, we'll just call it globalization and they're out of luck.

a closer look at communists rather than ism reveals all kinds of surprises. in China for instance it was the communists who resisted the japanese most fiercely, same in vietnam. in France the heaviest resistance to the german occupation, commies again. it was the communists in Russia who paid the heaviest price and deserve most of the credit in defeating Hitler, Normandy would not have been possible without Stalingrad or Kursk.

in our country as in Europe and elsewhere, the communists and the socialists were the idealists, the union members, who fought the strike breakers and the Pimkerton goons who opened fire on them. I am not making apologies for Stalin, Lenin, Mao and the rest of the totalitarians, but I am suggesting that capitalism can also feature totalitarianism, which is a specter haunting the america of OUR time

Posted by johannesrolf at 03/04/2006 @ 12:37am
"Is it true that the Mossad told Jewish employees of the World Trade towers the day before 9/11/01 NOT to go to work the next day?"

no it's not true. it is a filthy lie that dishonors the many jewish workers who perished in the world trade center.

did the mossaad agents also warn the Pentagon workers or any of the jews on the planes that perished?

Posted by johannesrolf at 03/04/2006 @ 12:50am
Everything you ever wanted to know about Michael Chertoff...scroll through this page:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/03/03/conservative-mag-admin-_n_16734 .html

Posted by plunger at 03/04/2006 @ 07:29am
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 03/04/2006 @ 12:37am

Speaking of economic justice, I just came up with some interesting parallels between low unemployment and higher wages that singled out Florida as an anomaly, over on Katrina VH's Sweet blog. Apparently 'big brother' helps not only for cronies but especially if there's a relative involved.

Posted by Bushfools at 03/04/2006 @ 09:58am
"In an important sense, it's plausible to envision Bush as a lover of peace and even an apostle of nonviolence--but, in context, those sterling invocations of virtues are plated with sadism in the service of empire. The president of the United States is urging "peace" as a synonym for getting his way in Iraq. From Washington, the most exalted vision of peace is a scenario where the occupied no longer resist the American occupiers or their allies."

http://www.guerrillanews.com/articles/2147/Mahatma_Bush

I think it is an important observation to hold as one evaluates this administration's response to disasters and it's agenda.

Posted by Bushfools at 03/04/2006 @ 10:03am
Bushfools,

That reminds me of when the Marxist-Leninists would say they believed in "peace." It was constantly "peace" this, and "peace" that. (Remember "you are casting aspersions on Soviet peace-loving activities")? But what it meant was a peace in which the world (or significant portions therof) were under Marxist-Leninist totalitarianism!

I guess the moral is, while peace is a desirable goal, it should not come at any and all costs.

Posted by Frank Thomas at 03/04/2006 @ 1:36pm
A little off topic, but speaking of 'at all costs':

"The emails from Cheney's office that were turned over to Fitzgerald earlier this month were written by senior aides and sent to various officials at the State Department, the National Security Council, and the Office of the President. The emails were written as early as March 2003 -- four months before Plame Wilson's cover was blown in a report written by conservative columnist Robert Novak. The contents of the emails are said to be damning, according to sources close to the investigation who are familiar with their substance. The emails are said to implicate Cheney in a months-long effort to discredit Wilson -- a fact that Cheney did not disclose when he was interviewed by federal investigators in early 2004, these sources said.

The emails also show I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Cheney's former chief of staff who was indicted in October on five counts of perjury, obstruction of justice, and lying to investigators related to his role in the leak, Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove, and then-Deputy National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, as well as former Under Secretary of State for Arms Control John Bolton and other top officials in the vice president's office also took part in discussions about ways in which the administration could respond to Wilson's public criticism about the Bush administration's use of intelligence that claimed Iraq tried to purchase uranium from Niger."

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_561.shtml

Posted by Bushfools at 03/04/2006 @ 10:20pm
Has RESE gotten to the part where Hitler and the Nazi Inner Circle arrange for the "immenitization of the eschaton" at Lake Totenkopf and will be stopped by Hagbard Celine?

(any Robert Anton Wilson fans out there?...hehe)

Posted by Mask at 03/04/2006 @ 11:12pm
GOP Worried?

About losing an election?

What election is that?

Didn't you get the memo?

Haven't you been listening?

There is going to be Bird Flu (or at least the Wag The Dog Version thereof).

Stay in your homes and listen to Dear Leader for further instructions.

Then there is going to be a dirty bomb attack.

Then they are going to impose Martial Law.

Then they are going to activate the Camps which Haliburton is building throughout the United States right now.

Elections?

How quaint.

Just as quaint as the Geneva Conventions.

KBR Awarded Homeland Security contract worth up to $385M. (HAL) (By Katherine Hunt)

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- KBR, the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton Co, (HAL), said Tuesday it has been awarded a contingency contract from the Department of Homeland Security to supports its Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities in the event of an emergency. The maximum total value of the contract is $385 million and consists of a 1-year base period with four 1-year options. KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005. The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs, KBR said. The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster, the company said.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=eed74d9d44 c30493706fe03f4c9b3a77

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/halliburton_dention_camps_for_politi cal_subversives.htm

http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Concentration_Camps/index.html

General Ralph Eberhart, who was in charge of air defense on 9-11, was the first commander of "Northern Command," the domestic unified military command established in October 2002. If the domestic use of the U.S. military escalates into full-scale martial law, the Northern Command would essentially manage it. If 9/11 had been an "intelligence failure," it is likely that General Eberhart would have been court-martialed instead of promoted.

http://www.oilempire.us/redalert.html

"Recent pronouncements from the Bush Administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States." -- The Sydney Morning Herald, July 27, 2002

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/06/02/far06003.html

Ron Suskind quoting a Bush aide in an interview: ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'

http://www.mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=276398&sid=422e73980b137 17c5d6bb53b791a4de0

http://p211.ezboard.com/fchemtrailschemtrails.showMessage?topicID=8174.t opic

"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

Michael Rivera

Posted by plunger at 03/05/2006 @ 08:41am
Holy Crap!

TWO AND A HALF PAGES of Mr Corn's blog here....taken up with cut & pastes from "www.hitlerkilledJFK.org", etc.

Again, I wonder if he wonders why he attracts RESE and PLUNGER to his stuff?

Posted by Mask at 03/05/2006 @ 10:43pm
Why is the Department of Homeland Security spending hundreds of millions of dollars to construct Concentration Camps in the United States?

Did you vote for that?

Why is the Department of Homeland Security assembling a totally separate National Police Force (ICE)?

Did you vote for that?

Why was our National Guard sent under-prepared into the kill zone with no way home other than a body bag?

Did you vote for that?

Why has our treasury been looted, leaving us vulnerable and exposed to the blackmail of our bankers?

Did you vote for that?

"Somethin's happenin' here, what it is ain't exactly clear, there's a man with a gun over there, tellin' me, I've got to beware."

STOP.

THINK.

Posted by plunger at 03/06/2006 @ 06:13am
PLUNGER

Given you've all ready given up on elections....know the "bankers" (all of the same religious/ethnicity eh?) control everything....and the "concentration camps" are going up out in Arizona....

Shouldn't you be holing up somewhere in Montana?.....after all, cut & pasting from www.larouchewasright.org isn't going to CHANGE anything....is it?

Posted by Mask at 03/06/2006 @ 07:43am

David Corn

Washington--a city of denials, spin, and political calculations. They may speak English there, but most citizens still need an interpreter to understand its ways and meanings. DAVID CORN, the Washington editor of The Nation magazine, has spent years analyzing the policies and pursuing the lies that spew out of the nation's capital. He is a novelist, biographer, and television and radio commentator who is able to both decipher and scrutinize Washington.

In his dispatches, he takes on the day-by-day political and policy battles under way in the Capitol, the White House, the think tanks, and the television studios. With an informed, unconventional perspective, he holds the politicians, policymakers and pundits accountable and reports the important facts and views that go uncovered elsewhere.

Check out David Corn's latest book, (co-written with Michael Isikoff and now available in paperback), Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War (Crown Publishers). For information, visit his personal blog at davidcorn.com.

Photo Credit: Michael Lorenzini

White House Whitewash on Katrina?

posted by David Corn on 02/24/2006 @ 10:03am

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White House Whitewash on Katrina?

posted by David Corn on 02/24/2006 @ 10:03am

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David Corn

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