Secret Report: Corruption is "Norm" Within Iraqi Government

posted by David Corn on 08/30/2007 @ 3:07pm

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As Congress prepares to receive reports on Iraq from General David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker and readies for a debate on George W. Bush's latest funding request of $50 billion for the Iraq war, the performance of the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has become a central and contentious issue. But according to the working draft of a secret document prepared by the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, the Maliki government has failed in one significant area: corruption. Maliki's government is "not capable of even rudimentary enforcement of anticorruption laws," the report says, and, perhaps worse, the report notes that Maliki's office has impeded investigations of fraud and crime within the government.

The draft--over 70 pages long--was obtained by The Nation, and it reviews the work (or attempted work) of the Commission on Public Integrity (CPI), an independent Iraqi institution, and other anticorruption agencies within the Iraqi government. Labeled "SENSITIVE BUT UNCLASSIFIED/Not for distribution to personnel outside of the US Embassy in Baghdad," the study details a situation in which there is little, if any, prosecution of government theft and sleaze. Moreover, it concludes that corruption is "the norm in many ministries."

The report depicts the Iraqi government as riddled with corruption and criminals--and beyond the reach of anticorruption investigators. It also maintains that the extensive corruption within the Iraqi government has strategic consequences by decreasing public support for the U.S.-backed government and by providing a source of funding for Iraqi insurgents and militias.

The report, which was drafted by a team of U.S. embassy officials, surveys the various Iraqi ministries. "The Ministry of Interior is seen by Iraqis as untouchable by the anticorruption enforcement infrastructure of Iraq," it says. "Corruption investigations in Ministry of Defense are judged to be ineffectual." The study reports that the Ministry of Trade is "widely recognized as a troubled ministry" and that of 196 corruption complaints involving this ministry merely eight have made it to court, with only one person convicted.

The Ministry of Health, according to the report, "is a sore point; corruption is actually affecting its ability to deliver services and threatens the support of the government." Investigations involving the Ministry of Oil have been manipulated, the study says, and the "CPI and the [Inspector General of the ministry] are completely ill-equipped to handle oil theft cases." There is no accurate accounting of oil production and transportation within the ministry, the report explains, because organized crime groups are stealing oil "for the benefit of militias/insurgents, corrupt public officials and foreign buyers."

The list goes on: "Anticorruption cases concerning the Ministry of Education have been particularly ineffective….[T]he Ministry of Water Resources…is effectively out of the anticorruption fight with little to no apparent effort in trying to combat fraud….[T]he Ministry of Labor & Social Affairs is hostile to the prosecution of corruption cases. Militia support from [Shia leader Moqtada al-Sadr] has effectively made corruption in the Ministry of Transportation wholesale according to investigators and immune from prosecution." Several ministries, according to the study, are "so controlled by criminal gangs or militias" that it is impossible for corruption investigators "to operate within [them] absent a tactical [security] force protecting the investigator."

The Ministry of the Interior, which has been a stronghold of Shia militias, stands out in the report. The study's authors say that "groups within MOI function similarly to a Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization (RICO) in the classic sense. MOI is a 'legal enterprise' which has been co-opted by organized criminals who act through the 'legal enterprise' to commit crimes such as kidnapping, extortion, bribery, etc." This is like saying the mob is running the police department. The report notes, "currently 426 investigations are hung up awaiting responses for documents belonging to MOI which routinely are ignored." It cites an episode during which a CPI officer discovered two eyewitnesses to the October 2006 murder of Amer al-Hashima, the brother of the vice president, but the CPI investigator would not identify the eyewitnesses to the Minister of the Interior out of fear he and they would be assassinated. (It seemed that the killers were linked to the Interior Ministry.) The report adds, "CPI investigators assigned to MOI investigations have unanimously expressed their fear of being assassinated should they aggressively pursue their duties at MOI. Thus when the head of MOI intelligence recently personally visited the Commissioner of CPI…to end investigations of [an] MOI contract, there was a clear sense of concern within the agency."

Over at the Defense Ministry, the report notes, there has been a "shocking lack of concern" about the apparent theft of $850 million from the Iraqi military's procurement budget. "In some cases," the report says, "American advisors working for US [Department of Defense] have interceded to remove [Iraqi] suspects from investigations or custody." Of 455 corruption investigations at the Defense Ministry, only 15 have reached the trial stage. A mere four investigators are assigned to investigating corruption in the department. And at the Ministry of Trade, "criminal gangs" divide the spoils, with one handling grain theft, another stealing transportation assets.

Part of the problem, according to the report, is Maliki's office: "The Prime Minister's Office has demonstrated an open hostility" to independent corruption investigations. His government has withheld resources from the CPI, the report says, and "there have been a number of identified cases where government and political pressure has been applied to change the outcome of investigations and prosecutions in favor of members of the Shia Alliance"--which includes Maliki's Dawa party.

The report's authors note that the man Maliki appointed as his anticorruption adviser--Adel Muhsien Abdulla al-Quza'alee--has said that independent agencies, like the CPI, should be under the control of Maliki. According to the report, "Adel has in the presence of American advisors pressed the Commissioner of CPI to withdraw cases referred to court." These cases involved defendants who were members of the Shia Alliance. (Adel has also, according to the report, "steadfastly refused to submit his financial disclosure form.") And Maliki's office, the report says, has tried to "force out the entire leadership of CPI to replace them with political appointees"--which would be tantamount to a death sentence for the CPI officials. They now live in the Green Zone. Were they to lose their CPI jobs, they would have to move out of the protected zone and would be at the mercy of the insurgents, militias, and crime gangs "who are [the] subjects of their investigations."

Maliki has also protected corrupt officials by reinstating a law that prevents the prosecution of a government official without the permission of the minister of the relevant agency. According to a memo drafted in March by the U.S. embassy's anticorruption working group--a memo first disclosed by The Washington Post--between September 2006 and February 2007, ministers used this law to block the prosecutions of 48 corruption cases involving a total of $35 million. Many other cases at this time were in the process of being stalled in the same manner. The stonewalled probes included one case in which Oil Ministry employees rigged bids for $2.5 million in equipment and another in which ministry personnel stole 33 trucks of petroleum.

And in another memo obtained by The Nation--marked "Secret and Confidential"--Maliki's office earlier this year ordered the Commission on Public Integrity not to forward any case to the courts involving the president of Iraq, the prime minister of Iraq, or any current or past ministers without first obtaining Maliki's consent. According to the U.S. embassy report on the anticorruption efforts, the government's hostility to the CPI has gone so far that for a time the CPI link on the official Iraqi government web site directed visitors to a pornographic site.

In assessing the Commission on Public Integrity, the embassy report notes that the CPI lacks sufficient staff and funding to be effective. The watchdog outfit has only 120 investigators to cover 34 ministries and agencies. And these investigators, the report notes, "are closer to clerks processing paperwork rather than investigators solving crimes." The CPI, according to the report, "is currently more of a passive rather than a true investigatory agency. Though legally empowered to conduct investigations, the combined security situation and the violent character of the criminal elements within the ministries make investigation of corruption too hazardous."

CPI staffers have been "accosted by armed gangs within ministry headquarters and denied access to officials and records." They and their families are routinely threatened. Some sleep in their office in the Green Zone. In December 2006, a sniper positioned on top of an Iraqi government building in the Green Zone fired three shots at CPI headquarters. Twelve CPI personnel have been murdered in the line of duty. The CPI, according to the report, "has resorted to arming people hired for janitorial and maintenance duty."

Radhi al-Radhi, a former judge who was tortured and imprisoned during Saddam Hussein's regime and who heads the CPI, has been forced to live in a safe house with one of his chief investigators, according to an associate of Radhi who asked not to be identified. Radhi has worked with Stuart Bowen Jr., the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, who investigates fraud and waste involving U.S. officials and contractors. His targets have included former Defense Minister Hazem Shalaan and former Electricity Minister Aiham Alsammarae. And Radhi himself has become a target of accusations. A year ago, Maliki's office sent a letter to Radhi suggesting that the CPI could not account for hundreds of thousands of dollars in expenses and that Radhi might be corrupt. But, according to the US embassy report, a subsequent audit of the CPI was "glowing." In July, the Iraqi parliament considered a motion of no confidence in Radhi-a move widely interpreted as retaliation for his pursuit of corrupt officials. But the legislators put off a vote on the resolution. In late August, Radhi came to the United States. He is considering remaining here, according to an associate.

Corruption, the report says, is "one of the major hurdles the Iraqi government must overcome if it is to survive as a stable and independent entity." Without a vigorous anticorruption effort, the report's authors assert, the current Iraqi government "is likely to loose [sic] the support of its people." And, they write, continuing corruption "will likely fund the violent groups that our troops are likely to face." Yet, according to the report, the U.S. embassy is providing "uncertain" resources for anticorruption programs. "It's a farce," says a U.S. embassy employee. "There is a budget of zero [within the embassy] to fight corruption. No one ever asked for this report to be written. And it was shit-canned. Who the hell would want to release it? It should infuriate the families of the soldiers and those who are fighting in Iraq supposedly to give Maliki's government a chance."

Beating back corruption is not one of the 18 congressionally mandated benchmarks for Iraq and the Maliki government. But this hard-hitting report--you can practically see the authors pulling out their hair--makes a powerful though implicit case that it ought to be. The study is a damning indictment: widespread corruption within the Iraqi government undermines and discredits the U.S. mission in Iraq. And the Bush administration is doing little to stop it.

******

OUT IN PAPERBACK: HUBRIS: THE INSIDE STORY OF SPIN, SCANDAL, AND THE SELLING OF THE IRAQ WAR by Michael Isikoff and David Corn. The paperback edition of this New York Times bestseller contains a new afterword on George W. Bush's so-called surge in Iraq and the Scooter Libby trial. The Washington Post said of Hubris: "Indispensable....This [book] pulls together with unusually shocking clarity the multiple failures of process and statecraft." The New York Times called it, "The most comprehensive account of the White House's political machinations...fascinating reading." Tom Brokaw praised it as "a bold and provocative book." Hendrik Hertzberg, senior editor of The New Yorker notes, "The selling of Bush's Iraq debacle is one of the most important--and appalling--stories of the last half-century, and Michael Isikoff and David Corn have reported the hell out of it." For highlights from Hubris, click here.

Comments (123)

Secret F.Z. Report: Corruption is "Norm" Within All Governments

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/30/2007 @ 3:09pm
Oh, but Mr Corn (as our right-wing friends will note)....the "good news" is ....truck-bombings are down from 45 a month to "only" 30 a month and Iraq civilian deaths are down from 100 a week to "only" 65 a week.

Which at that rate means Baghdad will be as safe as Detroit in the 1970s in ...oh....20-40 years...tops, depending on the breaks!

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 3:23pm
A new IT guy at my office drives a VW Rabbit, converted to run on Bio Diesel fuel. It's quite amazing really. He gets 50mpg and it smells like food cooking when the engine runs. The real amzing thing is the realization that we don't need oil to drive our cars, and we don't need the middle east. I'm off the fence on this one. We need to get out, let the surrounding nations sort it out. We fucked it all up, let the region handle fixing it since we obviously can't, and let them keep their oil.

Posted by MATTMAN at 08/30/2007 @ 4:02pm
Posted by MATTMAN 08/30/2007 @ 4:02pm

Tough to find a place to refuel on your way to grandmas house ...and in the grocery store for an emegency will cost you $10 a gallon or more..but it does smell good.

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 4:24pm
Maliki's government is "not capable of even rudimentary enforcement of anticorruption laws,"

thank god we got the bushies overseeing this corruption thing...

Which at that rate means Baghdad will be as safe as Detroit in the 1970s in ...oh....20-40 years...tops, depending on the breaks!

Posted by MASK 08/30/2007 @ 3:23pm

hey, they may even get down to new orleans levels soon...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 08/30/2007 @ 4:45pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 08/30/2007 @ 4:45pm

It helps if you empty half the city first. HEY, maybe Petreaus should try that?

BTW, this is the reason we've heard whispering, which I think will eventually be echo'ed by the RIO BRAVO, LVLIB, PONTI, BARRY Crowd soon that..."We need a strong-man in Baghdad, worry about democracy later. Clean up the corruption and improve security!".

Thus the LAST reason for why we went into Iraq will be thrown cavalierly away. We find some Iraqi general version of "Duong Van 'Big' Minh" who's Shiia (but hates Iran) or Sunni (but doesn't hate us)....and we get a "Musharref for Iraq".

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 4:53pm
Great article Mr Corn.

So much for the great success Bushco keeps telling us about in Iraq. Sounds more like they are stealing the American people blind and sitting on their asses over there.

Why exactly are we waiting for September again? So we can be told to be patient for another 6 months of the same crap? It would appear that the U.S. pretty much needs to arm the Sunni's to the teeth to keep Iran out of Iraq, and also keep the Shiites in check. That looks like the only way we can get out of Iraq. Besides, if we make a deal with the Sunni's and put them back in charge, we get our oil which is why we went in there in the first place. The Sunnis get rich and we get to buy their oil.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/30/2007 @ 5:11pm
Posted by MASK 08/30/2007 @ 4:53pm

which, mask, is probably what we will get eventually. funny, seems like the death/suffering rate in that blessed hellhole has not decreased since the last murderous strongman lost his job there.

i'm all fer the democracy stuff, but without the overwhelming support of the populace, we can't force "freedom" on anyone. besides, the religious fanatics over there are even worse than our own, who seem to love the democracy here only as long as it agrees with their version of reality.

iraq - a hellhole into which we should never have lept, and never would have if not for big oily $$$$$. and the funny thing is that with a little nixonian manipulation the oil would have been flowing and the source of misery would have been a known quality...and not an obvious result of our actions...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 08/30/2007 @ 5:18pm
All I can say, besides what the first comment said is.....

IF Iraqi corruptions are among the Libs' main concerns today, a concern NOTnot even listed among the 18 desired Surge `goal', then the Surge must be getting under your skins!

Posted by Happy at 08/30/2007 @ 5:19pm
Conservatives defended US govt reports that the new Iraqi govt TORTURES people. Conservatives said, "See - See! When OUR puppets do something wrong, we REPORT about it". Same situation - zero points for honesty. They know how many eggheads actually pay attention to these reports.

Robert Gates is currently being styled as another Colon Pile, someone with "reservations" about being Bush's dupe.

Robert Gates's so-called reservations, are merely artificial enhancements to his credibility!!!! They "said" Colon Pile had reservations. All the better to make him sound credible when he finally, it comes right down to it and he tell us "We have to go to war".

Robert Gates has reservations about his credibility becoming like that of the Liar Colon Pile. I caution anyone who takes his act seriously. It IS an act. Robert Gates is as ready and capable of telling the critical lie at the critical time.

Robert Gates is a psychopathic, sociopathic, immoral, EVIL man. Not some dissenter who just happens to be in the Bush inner circle.

Posted by conshame at 08/30/2007 @ 5:20pm
When you hear that Robert Gates may not be a loyal Bushie, consider the source. Where is the proof, that Robert Gates is anything other than the new Colon Pile.

Posted by conshame at 08/30/2007 @ 5:23pm
IF Iraqi corruptions are among the Libs' main concerns today, a concern NOTnot even listed among the 18 desired Surge `goal', then the Surge must be getting under your skins!

Posted by HAPPY 08/30/2007 @ 5:19pm

Happy, How do you figure the surge is working? Do you want to keep U.S. troops in Iraq indefinitely? It looks more and more like Maliki is making side deals with Iran behind W's back and yet W keeps supporting him. One of them is lying to us. I'm giving W the benefit of the doubt here (maybe I shouldn't) but Maliki is bad news and has been from the get go.

It doesn't matter a bit whether or not the surge works if the government in charge is just waiting us out until we leave so they can go about things as they please. Basically a Sadam situation in reverse is what we are looking at.

As has been pointed out many times over, we've removed Sadam and Iraq is in the middle of a civil war. So, we pick which side we want to win, arm them to the teeth and let them fight it out. In exchange for us arming them, we get to purchase their oil. From my view point it doesn't matter if it's Sunni or Shiite. Neither one wants us in Iraq and that includes the Iraqi government. Both the Sunnis and Shiites pretty much hate Americans. Getting our soldiers maimed and killed over there is a complete waste.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/30/2007 @ 5:30pm
Tough to find a place to refuel on your way to grandmas house ...and in the grocery store for an emegency will cost you $10 a gallon or more..but it does smell good.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 4:24pm

Gosh, maybe if it was MADE more available, it wouldn't be such an inconvenience on the way to G'ma's. It's made of soy...we could grow our own fuel. We could also grow hemp and other bio products that could be converted to fuel that would go directly into our own economy. But we don't. We'd rather have Iraqi oil.

Posted by MATTMAN at 08/30/2007 @ 5:38pm
Posted by HAPPY 08/30/2007 @ 5:19pm |

the surge does indeed seem to have improved life in hell. more troops = more security...who'd have thunk?!?

plus the operation appears to be led by professional and competant military folks rather than mr. unilateral and his political ideologues. who'd have thunk?!?

yep, a few more years (5, maybe 10) and we may have an almost stable hellhole over there, you and i and all the taxpaying schmuks footing the bill while our own infrastructure falls apart...mr. cheney and his haliburton stockholder cronies laughing all the way to the bank.

but yeah, now that the job is no longer in the hands of self serving incompetant ideologues it is getting a little better.

still should never have gone there.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 08/30/2007 @ 5:43pm
CONSHAME:

I agree 100% about Gates. Iran-Contra, anyone?

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 5:49pm
...still should never have gone there.

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 08/30/2007 @ 5:43pm

But we did, under Bush 41....just didn't finish better; particularly wrt the Shiites we encouraged to rebel and left to die when they did!

This time, the 2003 version, I still don't have a big problem that we went in except that we overstayed....now, it's the central front in battling AQ....something I'm sure the Hubris-laden NeoCons, never anticipated as a by-product.....it seems we are doing a number to AQ........

I don't give a crap about Iraqi corruptions....we got enough right here in the good `ol USA......especially at this point, who are the shadowy foreign financiers of HRC!

Posted by Happy at 08/30/2007 @ 5:55pm
don't give a crap about Iraqi corruptions....we got enough right here in the good `ol USA......especially at this point, who are the shadowy foreign financiers of HRC!

Posted by HAPPY 08/30/2007 @ 5:55pm

Happy, You must have me on ignore. If not, how do you feel about a corrupt Iraqi government basically stealing the money the U.S. is putting up to supposedly get that government on it's feet? If they are just stealing the money, or worse yet, using the money we give them to use to hire folks to fight against us, I would hope you would have a problem with that.

And, what if HRC's campaign finances are completely illegal, why would that be any different than corporations laundering money through the think tanks, right wing talk shows etc. to get their people maximum positive airtime while cutting their opponents off at the knees with lies.

I guess you don't have a problem with corruption since you back one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of this country. The only thing that would bother you is if this administration fessed up to all the crap it has pulled on the American people. It's OK to lie, steal, cheat, do whatever you can to get ahead, as long as you make it look like you are on the up and up right?

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/30/2007 @ 6:07pm
In what universe does one expect an incompetent and corrupt hsuB/cHeney admin to create a competent and honest government? Well what's the saying, 'a dead fish starts stinking from the head first':

"In July, the White House, after fudging its facts a bit, concluded it was on track on eight of the 18 benchmarks, none of them dealing with political progress, which is the point of the "surge" policy. Today, the non-partisan Government Accountability Office will offer a far more discouraging, far more accurate, and a "strikingly negative" assessment.

Iraq has failed to meet all but three of 18 congressionally mandated benchmarks for political and military progress, according to a draft of a Government Accountability Office report. The document questions whether some aspects of a more positive assessment by the White House last month adequately reflected the range of views the GAO found within the administration. […]

The draft provides a stark assessment of the tactical effects of the current U.S.-led counteroffensive to secure Baghdad. "While the Baghdad security plan was intended to reduce sectarian violence, U.S. agencies differ on whether such violence has been reduced," it states. While there have been fewer attacks against U.S. forces, it notes, the number of attacks against Iraqi civilians remains unchanged. It also finds that "the capabilities of Iraqi security forces have not improved."

"Overall," the report concludes, "key legislation has not been passed, violence remains high, and it is unclear whether the Iraqi government will spend $10 billion in reconstruction funds," as promised. While it makes no policy recommendations, the draft suggests that future administration assessments "would be more useful" if they backed up their judgments with more details and "provided data on broader measures of violence from all relevant U.S. agencies."

That last point is particularly noteworthy -- the GAO is effectively conceding in a government report that the White House intends to deceive the Congress and the public. We may have come to expect stunning dishonesty from the Bush administration, but for the GAO to call the White House out like that reflects just how reckless and mendacious the Bush gang has become.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/12710.html

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/30/2007 @ 6:08pm
Tough to find a place to refuel on your way to grandmas house ...and in the grocery store for an emegency will cost you $10 a gallon or more..but it does smell good.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 4:24pm

infrastructure will not be changed.

must maintain status quo.

dude, someone had to make the first gas station, too.

if we don't change how we move and how we power our stuff, the world is going to burst into flames, either because of global-climate f*@k up, or because the middle east explodes, taking us with them.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/30/2007 @ 6:41pm
Posted by HAPPY 08/30/2007 @ 5:55pm

i just think the whole thing has detracted from the hunt for al qaeda. and has been pointless. bush 1 was wise and smart to not have gone to baghdad.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 08/30/2007 @ 6:45pm
HAPPY

But we did, under Bush 41....just didn't finish better; particularly wrt the Shiites we encouraged to rebel and left to die when they did!

Actually, we did finish better, by having the good sense to not try and occupy the whole country. Your point about the Shi'ites is well taken but that could've been amended by not giving permission to the Iraqis to fly helicopters, a march to Baghdad was hardly required.

....now, it's the central front in battling AQ....something I'm sure the Hubris-laden NeoCons, never anticipated as a by-product.....it seems we are doing a number to AQ.......

It is very little of the kind. Most of the insurgents are Iraqi. Regarding those who are foreigners, the occupation has proven a recruiting boon arguably making up in new numbers what they're losing in Iraq, and the veterans are getting invaluable experience in urban insurgency.

Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2007 @ 6:53pm
"Beating back corruption is not one of the 18 congressionally mandated benchmarks for Iraq and the Maliki government. But this hard-hitting report-you can practically see the authors pulling out their hair-makes a powerful though implicit case that it ought to be. The study is a damning indictment: widespread corruption within the Iraqi government undermines and discredits the U.S. mission in Iraq."

WHO GIVES A CRAP??? The last thing we need are more 'benchmarks' to prattle on about. The US needs to leave Iraq. There is no US mission worth 'crediting' in Iraq. Sheesh. Sometimes I wonder what side The Nation is on.

Posted by threehegemons at 08/30/2007 @ 7:02pm
Posted by MATTMAN 08/30/2007 @ 5:38pm

I am just teasing you..in high school my friend made adjustments to his carburater(they had them in the 70s) and ran his car off his fathers septic system on natural methane..it was cool..

We could get a happy meal at MDs and top off the tank with french fry oil..I am all for it..

Also, I don't think we buy Iraqi oil..mostly Canada and Mexico with some from Chavez ..as soon as Castro starts to rot we can buy from the Cubans who will be drilling harder and faster than Bill clinton on a Saturday night, in the gulf of Mexico , where our enviromental groups won't let us..this will provide money to repair Cuban from Castros reign of self imposed poverty and may stop the Chinese from drilling 91 miles from our coast...

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 7:07pm
Doing business on any scale in the middle east involves a bribe of some sort..has for centuies..it is cultural, just like here...Soros, 527s..ect..Moveon.org..Chinese monks..Mr HSU for Hillary...Mark Rich(or his "wife")...Hugh Rodam Roger Clinton and pardon "fees"....Lincoln bedroom rentals...

One mans corruption is another mans commission..but the middle east is always a mess.

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 7:11pm
JOHN MAASCH:

Actually, Cuba's poverty was hardly self-imposed. Unless, of course, you consider their intransigence and refusal to take it up the ass from the US (like it did under Batista) "self-imposed". You need to get your facts straight.

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 7:12pm
Love this anti-war site. It's given just one more reason for the US to stay in Iraq. With all the practice had with Enron etc, etc, etc, cleaning up Iraq's corruption should be a breeze for your mob. So after the guns come home you can send an army of accountants, investigators and bookkeepers. (By the way what chance of the US stealing any Iraqi oil from these sharp operators).

The following, from 2003, shows that Iraqis still have a lot to learn about the corruption game:

New York State Comptroller Calls for New Coalition to Fight Corporate Corruption.

"The goal of the coalition is to reform corporate governance and restore confidence in the financial markets. NCCR will unite institutional and individual investors, labor leaders, corporate CEOs, elected officials and community leaders in support of a program of corporate governance reforms, regulation and legislation," Hevesi said.

"The wave of corporate corruption scandals imposed a huge cost on every American -- not just the companies involved, their stockholders and employees. Investors lost hard-earned savings, often what they needed to retire. Honest business people faced unfair competition and higher costs of capital. Workers lost jobs, not just in the scandal-ridden companies. Communities lost companies that were critical parts of their economies. State and local governments faced reduced revenues and higher costs. Taxpayers paid more for less service and government workers were laid off," Hevesi said.

A Brookings Institution study estimated the cost of the scandals to the U.S. economy at $35 billion in the first year. Applying the same methodology to the New York State economy, Hevesi's office estimated the cost at $2.9 billion in lost economic activity and $1 billion in lost taxes in State fiscal year 2003. The New York State and City pension funds lost a combined $16 billion during that same time period. The average 50-year-old American with a 401k has $92,000 saved and lost almost $11,000. And the 39.6 million Americans aged 30 or more who have 401k accounts lost an estimated $311 billion."

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2007 @ 7:24pm
who will be drilling harder and faster than Bill clinton on a Saturday night, Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 7:07pm

LOL! Good one.

We may not buy Iraq oil, but oil is a significant reason we are there. Let's not kid ourselves. Oil in the ME, establishing a stronger US presence; it's all about oil ultimately.

Man, if we have the means for alternative fuel, why not exploit the hell out of them? Not profitable enough? Is that it, I don't know? I've said it before, but there has got to be more to achieve than profits.

Posted by MATTMAN at 08/30/2007 @ 7:40pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 08/30/2007 @ 5:18pm

At this point, a "strong-man" who keeps the region from exploding, counter-balances Iran and Syria, and leaves the Kurds alone would be the best of all possible worlds, I think.

Given he doesn't give a crap about Iraqi corruption, do you think HAPPY (or any of the 29% Crowd) would give a crap about throwing out the "We went in there to bring democracy to Iraq and watch it flourish throughout the ME" b.s.?

After all as "the central front in the battle against Al Qaeda" (as opposed to where bin Laden is...Pakistan), as long as "Big Minh" General al-Despoti CLAIMS to be killing AQ (while also taking out his political or military opponents)....HAPP and the Gang will support him.

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 7:43pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 7:12pm

JORCH, you mean that the ONLY thing that keeps a "Worker's Paradise" poor is....

the US, capitalist exploiters that we are, not trading with them???

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 7:45pm
One mans corruption is another mans commission..but the middle east is always a mess.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 7:11pm

The Australian Wheat Board paid $300 million to a Jordanian Trucking Company that went directly to Saddam's favourite charity (himself) during the UN Food for Oil era. There was a Royal Commission (unfettered investigation by an appointed judge) last year into the bribes and the CEO was forced to resign but during that hearing many Australian business men said that's a fact of life in the ME and Asia (corruption or commission).

Incidentally the Australian Tax Office allowed the bribes (the whole $300 Million) to be written off as a business expense.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2007 @ 7:48pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 08/30/2007 @ 5:03pm

BTW, don't you love RIO's "moral equivalencies"? Soros gets fined 750K...Hillary has to donate 23K to charity...and RB is outraged, OUTRAGED I tell you.

Iraq loses ELEVEN BILLION dollars of OUR MONEY....and "So what? Let's talk about 'Demoncrats' and Hillary Rotten Clinton!!!"

(BTW, notice in that FEC fines story....he fails to mention the fine paid by...The Swift Boat Vets for Truth????)

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 7:49pm
At this point, a "strong-man" who keeps the region from exploding, counter-balances Iran and Syria, and leaves the Kurds alone would be the best of all possible worlds, I think.

Given he doesn't give a crap about Iraqi corruption, do you think HAPPY (or any of the 29% Crowd) would give a crap about throwing out the "We went in there to bring democracy to Iraq and watch it flourish throughout the ME" b.s.?

After all as "the central front in the battle against Al Qaeda" (as opposed to where bin Laden is...Pakistan), as long as "Big Minh" General al-Despoti CLAIMS to be killing AQ (while also taking out his political or military opponents)....HAPP and the Gang will support him.

Posted by MASK 08/30/2007 @ 7:43pm

Mask I think you are living in fairyland with your new "strongman" for Iraq. A strong man is only strong when he has the instruments of State to be that. (That may have been the thinking in disbanding the Army and sacking the Baathists i.e. removing the conditions needed for new strong man).

Hans Blix was interviewed on Aussie radio last evening by a lefty commentator (Phillip Adams an Aussie friend of the Nation) and he was trying to get him to say (this listener thought) things weren't so bad under Saddam. Blix said the Iraqis were courteous and generally co-operative with the inspection teams but, he said, Iraq was a police state with layers of secret police and such militias as the Fayedeen enforced Saddam's power. That central control is all gone and the fracturing of the central government by the tribal and sectarian factions is what will make it virtually impossible for a strong man to operate in Iraq, unless there is a movement to consolidate the power of the Central government.

The present fracturing (analogous to federal, state and local council structures that we are familiar with) is probably a better sign for pluralism and some form of democracy than a powerful central government, which is necessary for a dictatorship.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2007 @ 8:22pm
"As Congress prepares to receive reports on Iraq from General David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker..."

Congress is preparing to hear "testimony" from Patraeus and Crocker. Any "Reports" they/we recieve will be written by the Whitehouse. Please ty to keep up David.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there's corruption in the Iraqi government. We started out with these guys by dumping tons of cash on them with no accounting. In one case a Billion in cash was handed over and no one got so much as a signature. Cash + no accounting = Corruption it ain't tough.

Now a days when you see Maliki's name appears in these "Secret" reports keep in mind that his arch rival Allawi has hired a high powered Republican Lobbying firm: Barbour Griffith & Rogers with close ties to the Whitehouse. And let's not forget that he's tied to the CIA-Controlled Iraqi National Intelligence Service. Sure there's coruption there and Allawi wants to it take over. The CIA/BGR want to help him.

Sure there's corruption there, but hold on to your hats folks, its here as well. Nothing with this crowd is what it seems. I have no doubt that this is a legit report, but I suspect that the CIA had a hand in highlighting Maliki's failings. As if he had control of anything anyway.

Posted by Henk at 08/30/2007 @ 8:29pm
Twisted logic is illogical.

Posted by USAPRIDE at 08/30/2007 @ 8:35pm
The present fracturing (analogous to federal, state and local council structures that we are familiar with) is probably a better sign for pluralism and some form of democracy than a powerful central government, which is necessary for a dictatorship. ----Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 8:22pm

"the present fracturing"!??!?

I'm sorry, how many truck bombs, kidnap/murders, and suicide killings occurred during the Articles of Confederation days or after the Constitution? Many during the democratization of Germany and Japan after WW-2? How many BILLIONS lost during the Marshall Plan?

Seriously....can I assume that you want this to go "until we achieve victory"...which means NO end to the amount of money we will dump into Iraq (and lose apparently), NO time-tables, NO benchmarks, and NO end-in-sight for withdrawal?

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 8:44pm
JOR,

"JOHN MAASCH:

Actually, Cuba's poverty was hardly self-imposed. Unless, of course, you consider their intransigence and refusal to take it up the ass from the US (like it did under Batista) "self-imposed". You need to get your facts straight.

Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 7:12pm"

Sure it was volentary...are you telling me that only the US trade could have brought Cuba into the 20th century? They were free to trade with the REST of the world(and did) and made their bones on being tough and NOT trading with the US..they even spent their sugar money on troops in Angola dying instead of the Russians having to die...so, then Russia shits herslf and the bed...and Cuba...collapses even further. The place was never viable under Castro or his "revolution"..wanna see a revolution? Watch how fast the Cuban Americans rush into Cuba once Castro assumes Carribean temperature, and the life style, quality and rights of the individual soars....

You m ight want to get the facts straight...Cubans were fleeing from Cuba, to the US, not to the rest of the world and it wasn't because the US wasn't "trading" with Cuban...it was for individual freedom..and food..

And Castro? He will be a museum like Lennin...a great stop on the tour bus route....

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 9:30pm
"A Brookings Institution study estimated the cost of the scandals to the U.S. economy at $35 billion in the first year."

Thats alot less than all the fraud in the govt programs on any give month, considering a 3 trillion dollar a year budget...

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 9:32pm
First the quick stuff.

JOHN MAASCH:

You said:

"A Brookings Institution study estimated the cost of the scandals to the U.S. economy at $35 billion in the first year."

Thats alot less than all the fraud in the govt programs on any give month, considering a 3 trillion dollar a year budget...

My response:

Yes, and the VAST majority of that graft is in giveaways and bailouts for klepto-capitalist pigs for whom you seem intent to maintain your blinders.

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 9:42pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 9:42pm

The graft has been going on since inception of govt programs with no attention to real success...just more funding...and contrary to your relgion, it didn't start with Bush...

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 9:52pm
JOHN MAASCH:

Now to your prior post.

You said:

Sure it was volentary...are you telling me that only the US trade could have brought Cuba into the 20th century? They were free to trade with the REST of the world(and did) and made their bones on being tough and NOT trading with the US..they even spent their sugar money on troops in Angola dying instead of the Russians having to die...so, then Russia shits herslf and the bed...and Cuba...collapses even further. The place was never viable under Castro or his "revolution"..wanna see a revolution? Watch how fast the Cuban Americans rush into Cuba once Castro assumes Carribean temperature, and the life style, quality and rights of the individual soars....

My response:

First, you might want to invest in spellcheck.

Second, we are their closest trading partner. While you are correct that, in theory, other countries are able to trade with Cuba, the US has literally done everything in its power to limit that trade. And all because Cuba will not cower to US market imperialism. I'm trying to figure out precisely what part of this you don't get. When literally the largest power on the planet tries to strangle your economy, it works. It literally took being propped up by the other largest power on the planet for almost a half-century to prevent what we have seen since 1990... the slow strangulation of their economy. You make it seem like the facts that the US is the largest and strongest economy on the planet AND nearest neighbor are irrelevant, which they clearly are not.

And I would like to add that despite this slow economic strangulation, their health care system is STILL only slightly worse than ours.

I would like to ask you... what is the purpose of maintaining this embargo on Cuba? We trade with China, a country which perpetrates atrocities many magnitudes greater than Cuba ever has (unless you consider expropriation of property owned by corporations like United Fruit Company and the ITT to be atrocities, of course).

You said:

You m ight want to get the facts straight...Cubans were fleeing from Cuba, to the US, not to the rest of the world and it wasn't because the US wasn't "trading" with Cuban...it was for individual freedom..and food..

My response:

Your feeble attempt at making a point, bad spelling aside, made me chuckle. Sorry, but it is you who needs to get his facts straight. And while you're at it, get real. Yes, it is true that some of them come to the US, just as a much larger number come to the US from Mexico, and from Europe, and a host of other places. What, precisely, is your point?

You said:

And Castro? He will be a museum like Lennin...a great stop on the tour bus route....

My response:

At very least, he will be remembered, unlike yourself.

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 9:56pm
JOHN MAASCH:

You said:

The graft has been going on since inception of govt programs with no attention to real success...just more funding...and contrary to your relgion, it didn't start with Bush...

My response:

I never implied that Bush invented graft and corruption. He just raised it up to an art form. And if you are trying to make, again, a feeble point about how government always mishandles money, I would recommend you try checking out a number of European countries, or Canada. I know that you're pretty ignorant regarding facts, but you really should stop spouting off the same tired old Limbaugh-inspired claptrap before your brain rots on that stuff.

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 9:59pm
Mr. Corn,

The Special Inspector General for Iraq's report (http://radamisto.blogspot.com/2007/07/op-ed-ecstasy.html)in July came to the same conclusion:

"The Embassy made progress on several fronts to address the endemic corruption in Iraq, which SIGIR views as a "second insurgency."

Posted by piniella at 08/30/2007 @ 10:05pm
Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 9:56pm

Again, JORCH, have to ask. A socialist state CANNOT thrive economically unless it trades with it's "nearest neighbor", who is a capitalist state?

Is it possible that "something else" is responsible for Cuba's economy being in the toilet...and NOT the fact that they don't get to sell their cigars to us (but can to Canada)...or that Americano turistas have to go through Costa Rica to get to them?

Something...oh...like...they're a Stalinist dictatorship, maybe???

Posted by Mask at 08/30/2007 @ 10:24pm
"First, you might want to invest in spellcheck. "

My Response:

I am a victim of the public school system...good thing I have instincts in making a living.

Please, please, don't tell me you are a teacher..in a public school...it would explain so much, but I hope you are anything but that.

"..Yes, it is true that some of them come to the US, just as a much larger number come to the US from Mexico, and from Europe, and a host of other places. What, precisely, is your point? ."

My Response;

Yes, they come from Europe as a visitor and a tourist for the most part, and from Mexico for a better life in a broken system..but from Cuba, they come for opportunity to have a life, freedom, food, electricity,may be the fear of being imprisoned and shot was a difference in leaving Cuba, but, hey, you would have to sneak out, especially if you are a sports team member, then again,.....whats your point..right?

Please, again, you are not a public school teacher,..please

"At very least, he will be remembered, unlike yourself. "

Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 9:56pm

My Response:

You should ask my neighbors...from Cuba, I think they would help you get your facts straight..or maybe not..you seem pretty solid in your doctrines.

Yes, he will be remembered ..like Hitler, Stalin, Lennin, Pol Pot, others despots who imprisoned his own people, for the revolution of course, funny how he wanted those nasty capitalists dollars, tho,..for the people, of course.. who never had to bother with those pesky elections, but hey...your doctor was free...and unemployment wasn't a problem either...could you ride in the peoples truck? On Tuesday?

Enjoy, comrade.

It is my hope the govt and guys like you will not remember me or my money at tax time..

Please, tell me you are not a teacher...Comrade...and I wonder...how will you be received down there in Cuba when the Cubans enter the 21st century and YOU remind them how good they had it when Castro was there and free heath care....

I can see your ass strapped to a dingy and pushed out to Miami....and the Cubans waving good bye to you...your Castro and revolution posters duct taped to your back for a sail..

Good night comrade...

Please...no teacher, right?..As I understand it, today in public schools there is no correct spelling..just that we try and feel good about it..

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 10:29pm
"the present fracturing"!??!?

I'm sorry, how many truck bombs, kidnap/murders, and suicide killings occurred during the Articles of Confederation days or after the Constitution? Many during the democratization of Germany and Japan after WW-2? How many BILLIONS lost during the Marshall Plan?

Seriously....can I assume that you want this to go "until we achieve victory"...which means NO end to the amount of money we will dump into Iraq (and lose apparently), NO time-tables, NO benchmarks, and NO end-in-sight for withdrawal?

Posted by MASK 08/30/2007 @ 8:44pm

That is not really relevant to the point about a strong man but more a comment on the way Iraqis at present handle their differences. It is further confirmation that the power of the central government is weak which in the end may mean that real change is possible .

One way to look at the ethnic and sectarian conflicts is that once true reconciliation occurs then a real, rather than a legislated and hence artificial, pluralism exists.

As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm
Mask,

I have been in Tampa all week..are yolu near here?

Posted by john maasch at 08/30/2007 @ 10:46pm
JOHN MAASCH:

The "comrade" bit was funny... the first time. After that, it just became clear that you have precisely zero wit. I'm sure the whole time you had that same shit-eating smirk that your cheerleader in chief has when he actually manages to read his Teleprompter correctly and not make too great a fool of himself.

You said:

I am a victim of the public school system...good thing I have instincts in making a living.

My response:

Don't blame your ignorance on the public school system. First, I am a product of one of the worst in the nation (North Carolina) yet I turned out pretty well.

You said:

Please, please, don't tell me you are a teacher..in a public school...it would explain so much, but I hope you are anything but that.

My response:

Nope. Not a teacher. But good lord, you need a teacher to sort you out. And you could do a hell of a lot worse than having me teach you.

You said:

Yes, they come from Europe as a visitor and a tourist for the most part, and from Mexico for a better life in a broken system..but from Cuba, they come for opportunity to have a life, freedom, food, electricity,may be the fear of being imprisoned and shot was a difference in leaving Cuba, but, hey, you would have to sneak out, especially if you are a sports team member, then again,.....whats your point..right?

My response:

Have you ever actually spoken with anyone from Cuba, or anyone who has actually visited there (someone who wasn't promoting their own agenda trying to tell you how crappy it is and how great free-market capitalism would be for that nation)? Well, I have. And you really don't have a very accurate view of the country. Do they have problems? Yes. Are they authoritarian? Absolutely. Would I rather live there than Iraq? Without a doubt. Do I support authoritarianism or totalitarianism? Absolutely not. Not in any way, shape, or form. And I am honest enough with myself to admit that Cuba is no where near the socialist paradise that Castro's state-run propaganda ministry proclaims. But here's what you have to ask yourself. Is the vast majority of Cubanos better off under Castro than they were under Batista? Oh my God yes. And any HONEST Cubano would admit as much.

And moreover, were the US not so antagonistic against Cuba, and didn't actively work against Cuba's success (not even saying we should help it, just don't hurt it) the country would be MUCH better off. And this goes to MASK's question/comment prior to MAASCH's post. We have done literally everything we can to unseat Castro, making him more, rather than less, likely to crack down and limit freedom. Why? Because we were trying to kill him. And if you don't admit that has had a great deal to do with his authoritarianism (not all, just a lot) then you really are a waste of time, and not at all honest about the facts that you so sanctimoniously proclaim to be all-important.

You said:

Please, again, you are not a public school teacher,..please

My response:

You need to dig a little deeper into your repertoire. Do you usually recycle bad jokes so often? Geez, I think I have discovered why you did so poorly in school. You're dumber than a bag of hammers.

You said:

You should ask my neighbors...from Cuba, I think they would help you get your facts straight..or maybe not..you seem pretty solid in your doctrines.

My response:

Yes, I am, but not nearly so hidebound as yourself as to shut down my mind to new ideas and new knowledge that would help me expand my understanding of the world around me. Your lack of intellectual curiosity reminds me of someone else... our crook-in-chief. If you spent as much time reading as you do spouting off nonsense that you hear on talk radio, you might actually know something about... well, something.

You said:

Yes, he will be remembered ..like Hitler, Stalin, Lennin, Pol Pot, others despots who imprisoned his own people, for the revolution of course, funny how he wanted those nasty capitalists dollars, tho,..for the people, of course.. who never had to bother with those pesky elections, but hey...your doctor was free...and unemployment wasn't a problem either...could you ride in the peoples truck? On Tuesday?

My response:

It's funny that two of the four despots you named were supported by the US. Obviously we don't have a problem lending help to a totalitarian leader when his position and politics coincide with the interests of the cabal of klepto-capitalists who determine our foreign policy.

The rest of your post was... well, hard to follow. Did you forget your meds this evening?

You said:

Enjoy, comrade.

My response:

Barely funny the first time.

You said:

It is my hope the govt and guys like you will not remember me or my money at tax time..

My response:

If we had a fair system of taxation, we wouldn't need to. You would just mail in a check.

You said:

Please, tell me you are not a teacher...Comrade...and I wonder...how will you be received down there in Cuba when the Cubans enter the 21st century and YOU remind them how good they had it when Castro was there and free heath care....

My response:

More dimwitted humor from a shining example of intellectually stunted development. And to respond directly to the free health care comment, I pray you aren't right. Ask an average Russian whether it was better under the USSR or now. I have. And you know what they say?

Capitalism did in 7 years (this was in 97 when I first heard this little anecdote originally) what Communism couldn't do in 70... make Communism look good.

Now, while that certainly isn't the case for all Russians, the transition has not been kind to the average Russian in the least.

You said:

I can see your ass strapped to a dingy and pushed out to Miami....and the Cubans waving good bye to you...your Castro and revolution posters duct taped to your back for a sail..

My response:

You probably would love to see that. As much as I would love to see you make it in Moscow for a winter, or in Iraq for a day, or anywhere else the US and/or capitalism has gone in a taken a big huge steamy shit on the population.

You said:

Good night comrade...

My response:

I could buy you a joke book for a few bucks. They aren't that expensive. Now the wit, that might be a little more expensive.

You said:

Please...no teacher, right?..As I understand it, today in public schools there is no correct spelling..just that we try and feel good about it..

My response:

You must be talking about those home schools, run by right-wing-nut creationists who still believe the earth is only 4000 years old. Right?

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 11:30pm
US$ billionns have been spent to support a corrupted regime in Iraq? Sad, but if that's Dubya's will then you take some more. Tell Dubya to withraw and fight poverty and corruption at home.

Posted by Helen DAO at 08/30/2007 @ 11:32pm
I have been in Tampa all week.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 10:46pm

Two guys are talking and one says "I'm going to Florida with my wife next week". The second guy says "You gone'a Tampa with her?" The first guy says "Yeah, but it's none of your damn business."

So, the US Embassy has finally figured out there is corruption in Iraq. What a revelation considering the administration that taught them all they knew about corruption.

The guys at the Oil Ministry are trying to steal all they can now before the Iraq Oil Law is passed because then the professional thieves will be coming in to steal the Iraqis oil (all legal of cause).

We've lost 12 thousand million dollars in Iraq in the beginning of the war thanks to Bremmer tossing blocks of $100 bills out the window into the street. I wonder how many millionaires we made in Iraq? Could be as many as 12 thousand. I guess it all in who you know there.

Then there's the military contractors. The guys with the no-bit contracts that have gotten very good at sending bills to the US treasury for payment, but don't do half of what their suppose to do.

If you can look past all the killing, violence and overall chaos what you'll find is a cesspool with money floating on top. It your sleazy enough and don't mind the stink, there's lots of money to scoop up.

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power." - P. J. O'Rourke

Posted by COProgressive at 08/30/2007 @ 11:35pm
COPROGRESSIVE:

That's one of the few things I have ever read by O'Rourke that wasn't steeped in smarmy self-importance. But hey, he's absolutely right. Good post.

Posted by jorcheim at 08/30/2007 @ 11:37pm
JOR,

"Have you ever actually spoken with anyone from Cuba, or anyone who has actually visited there (someone who wasn't promoting their own agenda trying to tell you how crappy it is and how great free-market capitalism would be for that nation)? "

My neighbors...and their extended family..they LIVED there and have visited there since..OK for you?

" But here's what you have to ask yourself. "

No I don't...I asked Cubans who used to live there and risked their LIVES to leave.

"Is the vast majority of Cubanos better off under Castro than they were under Batista? Oh my God yes. "

How would you know this? The Cuban restaurant I ate in yesterday differ from your views, as will my neighbors..Why?

You need to read a book called "Useful Idiots" It has you in mind.

" You're dumber than a bag of hammers."

Plagerizer(SP)..O Brother Where Art Thou? ...So much for your humor.

" Ask an average Russian whether it was better under the USSR or now. I have. And you know what they say? "

I already know..from one of my Russian co workers..we have 18 in our NY office.

"You must be talking about those home schools, run by right-wing-nut creationists who still believe the earth is only 4000 years old. Right?

Posted by JORCHEIM 08/30/2007 @ 11:30pm

The ones who win all the spelling and history bees?

God Bless my capitalistic ass.

Good night comrade..

Next to Frank, your posts are the most boring..

Socialistic paradise? Oxymoron...unless you are not a player...which seems to be the case.

Put me on ignore ..you will be happier in your world. Do you have a nice uniform like Castro to celebrate the happiness of the CUBANOS??? Bring it down here to Florida and tell them how you believe the Cubans are better off....tell them publicly here..I will give you cover if you can run fast.

Good night comrade, Jor.

Posted by john maasch at 08/31/2007 @ 12:12am
Posted by COPROGRESSIVE 08/30/2007 @ 11:35pm

Don't worry about it..just tax the millionares and the billionares out of their money here..no problem.

Posted by john maasch at 08/31/2007 @ 12:15am
Mr. Corn,

Can someone at the Nation website post the report on your page, as a pdf? That would be killer.

Posted by antiPartisa at 08/31/2007 @ 01:26am
How can we pretend that Iraq will control corruption if they have had the immense example of the American company of Halliburton charging millions of dollars in excess and building mostly garbage?

In government because of the intervention of so many people, it is probable there will be some corruption. The goal will be always to identify it and contain it. But most big companies, especially oil companies, distill corruption from everywhere. Halliburton, Adelphia, Enron, etc, are more than a exception, a representative sample of how most companies do business. Maybe if we get out from Iraq, the government won't have the bill payer anymore and will straighten itself.

The people that offer the money, the right wing corruptors, are finally always the responsible of some government corruption. Who is to blame then?

Posted by Frank42 at 08/31/2007 @ 02:43am
Hmmmmm, now this is on topic ...

Associated Press Whistleblowers on Fraud Facing Penalties By DEBORAH HASTINGS 08.24.07, 3:16 PM ET

"One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to rebuild Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted.

Or worse.

For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance says he was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods.

There were times, huddled on the floor in solitary confinement with that head-banging music blaring dawn to dusk and interrogators yelling the same questions over and over, that Vance began to wish he had just kept his mouth shut."

Full story

Posted by V at 08/31/2007 @ 07:43am
Posted by HAPPY 08/30/2007 @ 5:19pm

The Coward reacts with a RIOtheCoward type post. Too bad the corruption does not "get under" your skin.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 08:11am
Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 7:48pm

All of Masch's statements regarding corruption

Is there anything you guys won't excuse? You want to go into Iraq because (reason #42) the Oil for Food program was corrupt. Now corruption is juts par, so it is ok.

nutjobs. delusional.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 08:21am
I am a victim of the public school system...good thing I have instincts in making a living.maasch

what a crock of shit. What a lame excuse for a grown man to use.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 08:25am
One way to look at the ethnic and sectarian conflicts is that once true reconciliation occurs then a real, rather than a legislated and hence artificial, pluralism exists.

As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term.

Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

what do you base this fantasy on LeeRoy? The recent 4 year history of Iraq?

you neo-cons have been telling us for 4 years that success is juussst around the corner, things are not really that bad.

But they are. Even IF your fantasy reconciliation were to take place over night, just the corruption alone would doom the guvt.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 08:29am
Why would the Law and Order conservatives be so accepting of corruption with THEIR tax dollars? Could it be because it is the way THEIR politicians work day in and day out? I would think any real patriot would be outraged at corruption within their own guvt, and any guvt using US tax dollars to enrich themselves, but alas, to admit that Iraqis are corrupt would bring the whole mission into question. There shall be NO questioning of a policy that has killed 4,000 Americans, 700,000 Iraqis, displaced over 2,000,000, brought instability to the ME, increased jihadism and failed to locate any wmd's.

what do we expect from a crowd that applauded Achmed Chalibi, a wanted felon, at the SOTU speech?

Criminals and Scoundrels: The 25 Most Corrupt Officials of the Bush Administration--http://www.citizensforethics.org/execcorruption

Claude Allen White House

Margaret Burnette Food and Drug Administration

Lurita Doan General Services Administration

Darleen Druyun U.S. Air Force

Kyle "Dusty" Foggo Central Intelligence Agency

Andrea Grimsley U.S. Department of Homeland Security

John Korsmo Federal Housing Finance Board

Jose Miranda Broadcasting Board of Governors

Janet Rehnquist U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Robert Schofield U.S. Department of Homeland Security

David Smith Department of Interior

Robert Stein Coalition Provisional Authority

Kenneth TomlinsonCorporation for Public Broadcasting

Eric AndellU.S. Department of Education

Lester CrawfordFood and Drug Administration

Brian DoyleU.S. Department of Homeland Security

Frank FigueroaU.S. Department of Homeland Security

J. Steven GrilesU.S. Department of the Interior

Donald KeyserU.S. Department of State

Kevin MarloweU.S. Department of Defense

William MyersU.S. Department of Interior

David SafavianWhite House and General Services Administration

Thomas ScullyU.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Jeffrey StaytonU.S. Department of the Army

Roger StillwellU.S. Department of the Interior

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 08:49am
Tuesday, September 20, 2005

Missing Iraqi Defense Funds According to news reports, Iraqi defense officials have embezzled $1.27 billion from their country's defense budget, supposedly rendering it totally defenseless against the insurgency. Now the current Iraqi army is obviously fighting with something. So what was stolen and what was not stolen? Apparently the thefts took place over an 8 month period covering late 2004 and early 2005. According to the Independent:

The fraud took place between 28 June 2004 and 28 February this year under the government of Iyad Allawi, who was interim prime minister. His ministers were appointed by the US envoy Robert Blackwell and his UN counterpart, Lakhdar Brahimi.

The man accused as the principal embezzler was a certain Ziyad Cattan, who as the further excerpt below shows, was unlikely to have been acting without the knowledge of the Iraqi Defense Minister, a Mr. Hazem Shalan.

Mr Shalaan says that Paul Bremer, then US viceroy in Iraq, signed off the appointment of Ziyad Cattan as the defence ministry's procurement chief. Mr Cattan, of joint Polish-Iraqi nationality, spent 27 years in Europe, returning to Iraq two days before the war in 2003. He was hired by the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority and became a district councillor before moving to the defence ministry.

For eight months the ministry spent money without restraint. Contracts worth more than $5m should have been reviewed by a cabinet committee, but Mr Shalaan asked for and received from the cabinet an exemption for the defence ministry. Missions abroad to acquire arms were generally led by Mr Cattan. Contracts for large sums were short scribbles on a single piece of paper. Auditors have had difficulty working out with whom Iraq has a contract in Pakistan.

...Authorities in Baghdad have issued an arrest warrant for Mr Cattan. Neither he nor Mr Shalaan, both believed to be in Jordan, could be reached for further comment. Mr Bremer says he has never heard of Mr Cattan.

Now, if all of that money, and the weapons that should have been purchased, were in the hands of the Iraqi police/military, maybe they could stand up while we (not Maasch/happy/LR) could stand down. That was The Plan, right?

But, according to our neo-con friends, this corruption is nothing to be concerned about.

delusional.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 09:02am
There are a couple of definitons of "delusional posters" here at "The Nation"....my bud HSUB and impeachment....and now this--

"It is further confirmation that the power of the central government is weak which in the end may mean that real change is possible .

One way to look at the ethnic and sectarian conflicts is that once true reconciliation occurs then a real, rather than a legislated and hence artificial, pluralism exists.

As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term."-----Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

LR thinks that a "weak central government" means that "real change is possible." That "sectarian conflicts", i.e. Sunnis and Shiia KILLING each other will lead to "true reconcilliation" and "pluralism". And that if we continue to spend MORE than a HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS....that we'll reap "real dividends" for it "in the long term".

The question has to be asked at this point. Is this a RELIGIOUS faith at this point? It flies in the face of ALL evidence to the contrary. And is that faith in the "idea" ("we'll bring democracy and peace to Iraq...uh...any day now") or in the Leader (Bush and this is some modern American version of a cult of personality)?!?!?

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 09:33am
LRJones-The money we're spending in Iraq is just peanuts?Nice of you to hide in Australia and spend our troops lives and our money for a cause many of you believe in.No wonder you admire Bush.He,too,believes that others should sacrifice for his beliefs.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/31/2007 @ 10:49am
One way to look at the ethnic and sectarian conflicts is that once true reconciliation occurs then a real, rather than a legislated and hence artificial, pluralism exists.

Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

you neo-cons have been telling us for 4 years that success is juussst around the corner, things are not really that bad.

Posted by CRABWALK 08/31/2007 @ 08:29am

Crabs that has nothing to do with prognosis but is simply a statement of the obvious. viz if those groups that hold different views on religion and politics etc are reconciled then voila! Plurality.

The implicit suggestion is that prior reconciliation between the parties, on say common Iraqi identity or how it once was in many Iraq communities or just plain self interest, should then lead to wider community acceptance of " benchmark" legislation. Funny you fellas who imagine you invented democracy don't seem to have a clue about the part human psychology plays in its implementation. Anyway Crabs I didn't realise you were around or I would have broken it down a bit and more fully explained what getting it arse up means..... Bloody musos.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/31/2007 @ 12:16pm
Funny you fellas who imagine you invented democracy don't seem to have a clue about the part human psychology plays in its implementation. ----Posted by LRJONES4 08/31/2007 @ 12:16pm

Again, lotta kidnap/murders while we were hashing out the US Constitution? Washington, Adams, Jefferson face weekly bombings in New York, Philadelphia, then Washington, DC? Did they lose BILLIONS (or even millions if you want to adjust for inflation) to corruption? Was the US Army of 1795 made up of "Baptist" militias who were killing "Episcopalians"?

Or go modern....tell us how 4 years after Berlin fell to the Allies, we were still fighting Nazis and Italian fascists?

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 12:49pm
Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term.

I think it is a bad investment. We have a national debt created by similarly bad investments (Honduras, El Salvador, Vietnam) that even when the interest expense is off-set by the Social Security Trust Funds, still consumes 7% of the budget. It's not peanuts. We spend half that on education at the federal level.

Anytime you want to start sending more of your peanuts to me and be like my Social Security Trust fund to pay off these debts I didn't want in the first place, let me know and I'll tell you where to send the checks.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/31/2007 @ 1:07pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 08/31/2007 @ 1:07pm

There's a FASCINATING dichotomy, SRJ. Many conservatives (and a few of us libertarians) argue that the money spent on the "War on Poverty" was a waste, ate up resources, and when the programs failed the liberals said "Give it more time! Give it more money! And it WILL work eventually!"

No doubt LRJONES would agree with that criticism.

Yet here he is making the IDENTICAL argument for continued spending of BILLIONS in Iraq. "Give it more time! Give it more money! And it WILL work eventually!"

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 1:22pm
Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 09:33am

The context for peanuts was the corruption money. Trillions may take us into a macadamia category but in terms of GDP it is still relatively small bickies (cookies?) you spend on an annual basis.

That really is not the point I was taking up (some are generous, some are mean by nature; nothing much can be done about that). It was my comment on your suggestion that what Iraq needs is a strongman leader to bring the nation into line, one assumes, by restoring security. As mentioned before, apart from circus performers, a national strongman leader is only as strong as the instruments of state that back them. The central Baghdad government has been effectively weakened, in that sense, by the style of democracy that the US has helped Iraq put in place.

However, perhaps paradoxically, the weakness that I referred to gives a better opportunity, in the longer term, to establish federalism by devolving power across provinces and even down to local communities.

If the "Mask strongman" solution were possible then it would be predicated on a strong central government with the implication of the state apparatus once again leading to the fascist state that was Iraq pre-2003. It is too recent an Iraq phenomenon to imagine it would be otherwise. A "weak" central government in that context means there is the possibility of a proper pluralistic and democratic government to be established. (It is the present Iraq governance/electoral system that makes the central government relatively weak and not so much who the leader is eg Maliki or Allawi or others)

The anti-war crowd, which includes you, have dealt yourself out of the Iraq/ US military/nation building, suggestions game as it presently exists (with it unlikely that a fascist state solution will be on the table).

And who knows, with any certainty, whether there will be a significant troop withdrawal when Bush is gone or what the policy of a new administration, whether Democratic or (shock, horror) GOP, towards Iraq will be or just how long it will take to get around Crab's "corner".

When the time comes for the troops to come home the anti-war cohort may be able to make itself useful by coming up with some innovative logistics solutions.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/31/2007 @ 1:28pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/31/2007 @ 12:12am

Cubans in Miami aren't exactly impartial on this matter, are they John? Many families of wealthy elites came to Miami penniless, fleeing Castro. Were not many of these immigrants supported by the U.S. Federal government as part of its attempt to show that flight equals Communist failure? Are not details like the early support for Republicans for this group, the $100 million spent by the CIA in the 1960s and the over $50 million pumped into the community by the SBA during the 1970s significant?

The fact that they are Cuban is irrelevant. Most of whom either never knew life under Castro or it was so long ago as to be unable to judge his significance.

I'm not making an argument for Castro here. I'm just pointing out that Miami Cubans are not a particularly useful source for objective consideration of the man.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/31/2007 @ 1:31pm
Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 1:22pm

Let's see. Traditional poverty rates in the U.S. were in the ~20% range. It was 19% after LBJ's address and moved to 11.1% in 1973. It then followed the economy - rarely getting above 15%. Failure?

Wasn't Medicare started at this time? And doesn't Medicare account for 40% of all medical payments in this country. Take that out and what does the poverty rate look like, especially among the elderly that used to have poverty rates above 30% and are now around 10%?

Contrast with Iraq. What exactly is the return to the nation on Iraq? Vietnam? There isn't one.

I'm willing to invest to bring down human suffering. I'm not willing to invest to increase it - as we have done in Iraq.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/31/2007 @ 1:45pm
Again, LEEROYjones, your theory is not bad, the federalization of Iraq. Where the rubber hits the road, reality, is the problem. In order to achieve that state, moving along the current civil war route, will take decades and cost billions of OUR dollars, leaving out the human suffering that ya'll seem pretty blase' about.

This is something that Joe biden, an evil dem, has been onto for some time. Unfortunately the time to do it was 2 years ago.

Also amazing to me that you think that wasting on known corruption billions is "peanuts". My ethical foundation says that ANY corruption is very bad. Perhaps the neo-con agenda has much more wiggle room, hence the willingness to deal with Nigeria, China etc.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 1:57pm
LRJones-When are you going to support this war with more than just talk?

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/31/2007 @ 1:57pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 08/31/2007 @ 1:57pm

Careful I'm, asking that question gets you ignored by the open minded, brave neo-con war mongers. They don't like being called out in public, I guess.

See the Young Republican convention video where the studly, tough guy young republicsans gave evry excuse they could think of why they don't have to go fight in Iraq. It is sickening.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 2:00pm
Crab-The only time you can get a war supporter to really think is when they're thinking up an excuse for not fighting.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/31/2007 @ 2:04pm
Posted by LRJONES4 08/31/2007 @ 1:28pm

You still think Iraq is post-colonial America? Working out the rejection of George Washington as an "American monarch" and the fight between the Federalists and Anti-Federalists?!?!? Or Nouri al-Maliki is some "John Adams", and that a "Jefferson" will emerge "later on, as long as we don't end the Surge"?

Madison and Hamilton didn't have militias and death squads going after each other. Nor did either man have a view of the other as a religious heretic or at the least totally untrustworthy. Was Washington a Tory, threatening an alliance with Great Britain if his opponents pushed for State's Rights?

Iraq is not 1790s America. It's not even late 1940s Japan or Germany. It's not even early 1990s RUSSIA or Eastern Europe!

As impure as the analogy is...Vietnam works as analogy. It's a civil war amongst a nationality, with our troops supporting an weak and corrupt government. In fact, it's worse than Vietnam!

Did you hear that the Pentagon may have to "start over" with the 28,000 National police force in Iraq, because they are still wracked with sectarianism? The ARVN of Diem and Minh weren't THAT bad....you didn't have Viet Cong openly serving in the SV army.

And the pull-out? April 2008, minimum, if not sooner. The Army is breaking and "the Surge" troop levels CANNOT be maintained. Look for Bush to "cut a deal" with the Dems next before Christmas.

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 2:05pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 08/31/2007 @ 1:45pm

SRJ, solid Democrats like Daniel Patrick Moynihan criticized the welfare system set up in Johnson's Great Society...were they wrong?

Why did welfare need to be reformed if it was working so well? And why was Bill Clinton and a good number of Democrats onboard for doing so in 1994? Instead of rising as they had been for decades, did welfare rolls drop after reform?

Yet the traditional liberal view of it was "We aren't spending enough. More money will fix the problesm. We WILL end poverty soon. Look here is SOME progress!" Which sounds IDENTICAL to the neo-con arguments about Iraq....THEIR ideological crusade.

Ideologues rarely admit mistakes and only when forced, alter their plans to fit reality. In 40 years we've seen that on the Right AND Left. We're not going to "bring democracy to Iraq" in the 2000s anymore than we were going to eliminate poverty in the 60s.

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 2:14pm
Or go modern....tell us how 4 years after Berlin fell to the Allies, we were still fighting Nazis and Italian fascists?

Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 12:49pm

Mask I did mention that word fundamentalist, didn't I. Do all wars have to to be exactly the same? You may not have noticed but the Germans and the Italians sort of shared the same cultural and intellectual roots as you Americans. Apart from English being Iraq's primary European language (for obvious historical reasons), its cultural roots and influences aren't exactly American kosher, so to speak, so why on earth should anyone but a cultural fundamentalist want to compare the war in Iraq with one in Europe, which was against your cultural brothers and cousins and expect to come up with the same outcomes?

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/31/2007 @ 2:15pm
Wednsday 01 September 2004

NEW YORK - Young Republicans gathered here for their party's national convention are united in applauding the war in Iraq, supporting the U.S. troops there and calling the U.S. mission a noble cause.

"Frankly, I want to be a politician. I'd like to survive to see that," said Vivian Lee, 17, a war supporter visiting the convention from Los Angeles,

Lee said she supports the war but would volunteer only if the United States faced a dire troop shortage or "if there's another Sept. 11."

"As long as there's a steady stream of volunteers, I don't see why I necessarily should volunteer," said Lee, who has a cousin deployed in the Middle East.

In an election season overwhelmed by memories of the Vietnam War, the U.S. military's newest war ranks supreme among the worries confronting much of Generation Y'ers. Iraq is their war.

"If there was a need presented, I would go," said Chris Cusmano, a 21-year-old member of the College Republicans organization from Rocky Point, N.Y. But he said he hasn't really considered volunteering.

At age 16, Chase Carpenter has.

"It's always in the back of my mind - to enlist," Carpenter, a self-described moderate Republican visiting Manhattan this week from Santa Monica, Calif., said Wednesday on the convention floor. He said he's torn over whether he'd join the military if he were 18.

Others said they could contribute on the home front.

"I physically probably couldn't do a whole lot" in Iraq, said Tiffanee Hokel, 18, of Webster City, Iowa, who called the war a moral imperative. She knows people posted in Iraq, but she didn't flinch when asked why she wouldn't go.

"I think I could do more here," Hokel said, adding that she's focusing on political action that supports the war and the troops.

"We don't have to be there physically to fight it," she said.

Similarly, 20-year-old Jeff Shafer, a University of Pennsylvania student, said vital work needs to be done in the United States. There are Republican policies to maintain and protect and an economy to sustain, Shafer said.

Then there's Paula Villescaz, a 15-year-old from Carmichael, Calif. who supports Bush and was all ears Wednesday afternoon at the GOP's Youth Convention in Madison Square Garden. She doesn't support the war, but she supports the troops and thinks the United States "needs to stay the course" now that it's immersed.

If Iraq is still a U.S. issue when she's 18, Villescaz added, she'll give serious thought to volunteering.

"I'm in college right now, but who knows?" said Matthew Vail, a 25-year-old from Huntsville, Ala., who works with Students for Bush. He said he might consider enlisting after he finishes his degree at the University of North Carolina, but not until then.

"The bug may get me after college," he said.

******************

On July 13, 2007, I visited Section 60 of Arlington National Cemetery, where the bodies of American soldiers killed in Iraq were freshly interred. Afterwards, I headed across the street to the Sheraton National Hotel, owned by right-wing Korean cult leader Sun Myung-Moon, to meet some of the war's most fervent supporters at the College Republican National Convention.

In conversations with at least twenty College Republicans about the war in Iraq, I listened as they lip-synched discredited cant about "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." Many of the young GOP cadres I met described the so-called "war on terror" as nothing less than the cause of their time.

Yet when I asked these College Repulicans why they were not participating in this historical cause, they immediately went into contortions. Asthma. Bad knees from playing catcher in high school. "Medical reasons." "It's not for me." These were some of the excuses College Republicans offered for why they could not fight them "over there." Like the current Republican leaders who skipped out on Vietnam, the GOP's next generation would rather cheerlead from the sidelines for the war in Iraq while other, less privileged young men and women fight and die.

Along with videographer Thomas Shomaker, I captured a vivid portrait of the hypocritical mentality of the next generation of Republican leaders. See for yourself.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/generation-chickenhawk-t _b_56676.html

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 2:16pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 08/31/2007 @ 2:04pm

Chuckle. good one:)

so why on earth should anyone but a cultural fundamentalist want to compare the war in Iraq with one in Europe, which was against your cultural brothers and cousins and expect to come up with the same outcomes?

Posted by LRJONES4 08/31/2007 @ 2:15pm

A question better put to ChimpCo and it's sycophants that have been attempting to make WW2 analogous to OIF since before the war started.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 2:28pm
Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 2:14pm

I'm more interested in facts. Not what Daniel Patrick Moynihan might think about a particular topic. Nor what solid Democrats may or may not believe. I don't particularly like the Democratic party, and I don't outsource my thinking to them - especially given they likely have other motivations factored into their assessment.

But that's all besides the point. I questioned how YOU can call it a failure. I pointed to statistics that suggest, at least according to poverty rates, it looks like a success.

How are you judging it? Do you think these poverty rates would have just dropped without these programs - particularly Medicare and Medicaid? If so, why do you think so? What makes you say it is a failure other than some people say it is?

Why did welfare need to be reformed if it was working so well? And why was Bill Clinton and a good number of Democrats onboard for doing so in 1994? Instead of rising as they had been for decades, did welfare rolls drop after reform?

You are aware that welfare was administered under the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program that began in 1935 - under the New Deal? It wasn't a War on Poverty program?

War on Poverty had two major acts: Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 and the Social Security Act of 1965. The first focused on building job skills and the second on health.

While it is true that welfare roles increased when War on Poverty programs went into place, I think you need to do a bit of work before you can say there is causation.

I don't think anyone would argue that things could not have been done better or that the goal is to completely end poverty. But, I also don't think that cutting poverty rates in half and doing it for a sizable portion of 40 years constitutes failure.

And your argument about why welfare had to be reformed? Hmm, I don't know ,a program put in place in 1935 might need updating every now and then. Kind of like the constitution. We fail because it needs to be amended? I don't think so.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/31/2007 @ 3:03pm
the better question should have been

"What, chimpy McFlightsuit, do you see in Iraq that makes you think an invasion by a western Christian nation into the heart of the Muslim ME is going to produce a liberal democracy without major upheaval and violence? Why should we start there and not in Saudi Arabia, or Yemen or the UAE?"

Answer: " uh, wmd's?"

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 3:06pm
Posted by LRJONES4 08/31/2007 @ 2:15pm

If they are that different from us....then why do you expect "victory" as we had in post-war Europe?

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 3:23pm
SRJ, two interesting admissions from your post----

"While it is true that welfare roles increased when War on Poverty programs went into place, I think you need to do a bit of work before you can say there is causation.

I don't think anyone would argue that things could not have been done better or that the goal is to completely end poverty. But, I also don't think that cutting poverty rates in half and doing it for a sizable portion of 40 years constitutes failure."----Posted by SRJENKINS 08/31/2007 @ 3:03pm

Again, "While it is true that welfare roles increased when War on Poverty programs went into place..."into....

"While it is true that sectarian violence increased when 'the Surge' went into place..."

and "I don't think anyone would argue that things could not have been done better or that the goal is to completely end poverty. But, I also don't think that cutting poverty rates in half and doing it for a sizable portion of 40 years constitutes failure" into...

"I don't think anyone would argue that things could not have been done better or that the goal is to completely end violence in Iraq. But, I also don't think that cutting truck bombings in half and doing it for a sizable portion of 4 weeks constitutes failure"

Something similar to what we'll hear from General Petreaus in a few weeks maybe???

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 3:29pm
The anti-war crowd, which includes you, have dealt yourself out of the Iraq/ US military/nation building, suggestions game as it presently exists (with it unlikely that a fascist state solution will be on the table)-Quagmirejones

How is that? "We" were never allowed at the tale to begin with. Your side owns this mess. You have ignored or ridiculed every suggestion from the anti-war crowd. Maybe if you had listened a little some of the chaos could have ben avoided. But no, you are so cocksure that eventually, some day unknown in the way off future, something resembling a pseudo democracy might happen, that you charged in guns a-blazin, brain a-sleepin.

Great plan there , jocko.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 5:16pm
tale=table.

you all had the "big blind" covered at the table. Really big blind.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 5:19pm
Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 3:23pm

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."

"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on.

LRJONES-

"The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding

"The character of our military through history -- the daring of Normandy, the fierce courage of Iwo Jima, the decency and idealism that turned enemies into allies -- is fully present in this generation. "

"In defeating Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Allied forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation."

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people.

President George W. Bush USS Abraham Lincoln At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California May 1, 2003

Isn't he so cute? With his sock stuffed McFlightsuit, he looked like Dukakis riding in the tank. And the mongers ate it up.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 5:28pm
Aww, it would have been better had I prefaced that last post with this:

so why on earth should anyone but a cultural fundamentalist want to compare the war in Iraq with one in Europe, which was against your cultural brothers and cousins and expect to come up with the same outcomes?

Posted by LRJONES4 08/31/2007 @ 2:15pm

Posted by crabwalk at 08/31/2007 @ 5:31pm
Consider the deception of the hsuB/cHeney admin and their reinterpretion of the Iraqi war funding benchmarks as another frat brat stunt; a deadly one.

The reason for setting a benchmark and a deadline is contingent on how, why and where one places the point of success.

Lets consider the 'where'-- as we already know the how and the why of the congressional funding bill and its conditions agreed to by hsuB (sans writing statement), of the Iraqi war funding benchmarks. I believe understanding whether the benchmark setting is either a success or failure lies in a clear visual interpretation of 'where' the point 'is' that's needing to be crossed.

The way I can see it being definitive and perfectly clear for most, is to imagine 'the benchmark point' in question as being 'on' a 'number line'. Remember what that is? It's a line with progressive positive and negative numbers (integers) on either side of a zero. Well, couple that with a rhubric grading system. If one were to place the benchmark point squarely on zero and say-- that is the point that needs to be crossed to start measuring success, it helps to conceptualize the definition of a benchmark tremendously. Ergo one can imagine that the Iraqi were at about -120 and moved to -110 in one of the areas being measured, but still haven't crossed zero, where the benchmark is, and where they may not cross for another 20 years at their rate of movement. So consider the ludicrousness of someone saying that success is being made since movement from -120 to -110 is making progress when one has to at 'least' cross '0' to make a grade of 'D'. Yes, there are measurements of success, but then again there are also measurements of failure. If one does not even make it to '0', one is merely measuring degrees of failure and not degrees of success. Doesn't it help to see benchmark movement in both positive and negative?

Perhaps this is easier to understand now-- One of my students wanted me to 'give' him extra points for improving from a 32 to a 38, when he had to 'earn' at least 60 points to make even a low 'D', 70 for a 'C', 80 for a 'B'... Yes, sad. He did learn enough to drop my class eventually.

You get the idea.

I hope.

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/31/2007 @ 7:28pm
Posted by CRABWALK 08/31/2007 @ 5:28pm

Well Crabs no one has claimed, as far as I know, that young George was not a bit naive about how the world works. I was just trying to get Mask to see that he is on the same wavelength that W was once on but of course without appropriating the power of the steep learning curve, as the pressie has, since mission accomplished days.

As far as predicting the future of Iraqi/America relations I've got a feeling that you blokes might still get dudded on Iraq even if the less than statuesque lady gets the nod.

Apart from fools brilliant venture into the mathematical confirmation of met/unmet benchmarks I did suggest sometime ago that young George had already accomplished a lot. That by seriously, if not mortally wounding al Qaeda and certainly ringing the curtain down on its universalist pretensions by giving it a good thumping in both Afghanistan and Iraq and by enlisting most of the rest of the civilised world in policing it through his clarion call (our side or see ya) to the WOT.

Further the removal of the fascist Baathist regime of Saddam ushered in the possibility of a real pluralism in terms of ethnicity, religion and culture. Despite what many claim pluralism and secularism did not prosper under Saddam. One only has to see how he treated the Shiites and Kurds and his ethnic resettlement programs to be confronted with the inaccuracy of that claim.

So Mr. Preacher man, George the younger has already achieved much of what he set out to do. Without the surge it was probably time to close up shop in 2006 or earlier with a good grade for the pressie and let the Iraqis take their time in finishing the job.

If the surge is doing the job, as even the more moderate reports coming out of Iraq indicate at this time, then it is likely that a bit more of the same or some prolonged surging, in terms of the apparent (until we get the true word next month) positive steps along the Dubya victory path for Iraq, wont go astray.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/31/2007 @ 8:47pm
Mask,

I have been in Tampa all week..are yolu near here?

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 08/30/2007 @ 10:46pm

go to tarpon springs--coolest place in florida (if you like baklava)

check out the salvador dali museum in st. pete

check out honeymoon island state park--beautiful

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/31/2007 @ 10:11pm
As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term.

Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

huh? these folks are in massive debt because of this mess. if the chinese were ever to say "pay me back"................

or come back in 100 years and ask their great-grandkids who will still be paying interest on interest if it was a great idea.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/31/2007 @ 10:22pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 08/31/2007 @ 10:11pm

I missed that ....no, sorry JOHN MAASCH...nowhere near Tampa.

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 10:32pm
BTW....LRJONES is Australian?!?!?!?

I guess I forgot that. Well, good to know that the neo-cons have an "outpost" Down Under of folks willing to let US (U.S.) spend BILLIONS upon BILLIONS and thousands of lives to fulfill their political agenda.

So...how much has Australia poneyed up for Operation Iraqi Freedom? How many troops? Oh, right, they're a big country with small chump-change armed forces and budgets....they get off light!

Posted by Mask at 08/31/2007 @ 10:35pm
Again, lotta kidnap/murders while we were hashing out the US Constitution? Washington, Adams, Jefferson face weekly bombings in New York, Philadelphia, then Washington, DC? Did they lose BILLIONS (or even millions if you want to adjust for inflation) to corruption? Was the US Army of 1795 made up of "Baptist" militias who were killing "Episcopalians"?

Posted by MASK 08/31/2007 @ 12:49pm

what about the war of 1812? that had its roots in your revolutionary war (basically a continuation of it).

America's leaders had assumed that Canada could be easily overrun. Former President Jefferson optimistically referred to the conquest of Canada as "a matter of marching."

sorry folks, didn't happen ;+]

not that i agree with mr EL-ARJOANZFORE.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/31/2007 @ 10:56pm
As far as the money goes it is peanuts for the US and may pay real dividends, many times over, for it in the longer term.

Posted by LRJONES4 08/30/2007 @ 10:31pm

huh? these folks are in massive debt because of this mess. if the chinese were ever to say "pay me back"................

or come back in 100 years and ask their great-grandkids who will still be paying interest on interest if it was a great idea.

Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 08/31/2007 @ 10:22pm | ignore this person

i hate when a new post gets sent back three days in time, so i posted it again

wouldn't want you to miss the wisdom of frosty. :+}

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/31/2007 @ 11:05pm
the thing that bugs me about this is that it's another opportunity to blame iraqis for a mess they never started.

the british invented iraq, combining three distinct cultures into a new "nation".

they knew they'd be back.

bush et. al. opened pandora's box and now innocent people are forced to live inside it (but at least they have freedom--they can't go outside, but they're "free").

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2007 @ 12:30am
bush et. al. opened pandora's box and now innocent people are forced to live inside it (but at least they have freedom--they can't go outside, but they're "free").

Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/01/2007 @ 12:30am

Wrong on multi-levels!

You are forgetting the millions that relocated out of Iraq and within Iraq....you can't say these "people are forced to live inside" Iraq....if anything, you could say they are "forced" to leave to seek greater security......another thing, when the time comes, many will return!

Politically, Iraqis today are free to associate with lord knows how many political or sectarian parties. It will take some time for the dust to settle down into the few that can actually `win something for their followers. Hell, even Al Sadr has to sort out his own Mahdi Army that by all accounts, have splintered! Growing pains....not pretty but probably unavoidable even if we have half-a-million troops in Iraq....less killings, sure, political in-fighting, I think not!

Posted by Happy at 09/01/2007 @ 12:55pm
Posted by HAPPY 09/01/2007 @ 12:55pm

indifferent on multi-levels

iraq is the worst place to live on earth.

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2007 @ 1:20pm
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ! THE IRAQI GOV'T HAS FOUND CAPITOLISM. We can not give them Democracy- they must earn it themselves constantly ! Plus we don't have enough of our own to spare. they need to seize the riens to their own institutions, we currently have are hands full with our own run away leaders. Democracy requires diligence.

Posted by Kimmy B at 09/01/2007 @ 5:06pm
It is a typical "vision" of neo-cons to impose a US type of democracy and political system into other countries. And their arrogance makes them miss the whole point.

Historically, there has been for example colonialism with political dominance of the metropolis to the colonies. And even though some of these have been in place for centuries and changed several aspects of the dominated society, they have failed in the following: 1) The dominated society never felt "as part" of the metropolis, they always felt they were different and rightly so. 2) By the way of being different, the colonies thought they had the right to be independent and selected different types of democracies or others. 3) While many societies established republics, the road to some type of real democracies were very difficult including here in the US with the Civil War, the conflicts between federalism and state rights, the civil rights of minorities and so on that have been shaping ever since our democracy.

What I am trying to say is that Iraq will not be a democracy when the US wants it to be, but when it is fully and majority prepared. That takes time and a lot of social maturity. Nobody can impose on the people, if the process of maturity is slow then they will pay the prize in blood and civil wars. Who in Europe for example, did not? French revolution, Spain's civil war, Italy's facist movements, England's constitutional monarchy, and of course again the US with what said.

Iraqis by themselves will need to get convinced not to fight. If they choose to continue fighting the bill will be enormous. There is not too much the US can do about it, except that the US unleashed these libertarian forces by interrupting a fierce and autocratic regime and now can't do much about it. But on the other side imposing on the people of Iraq will only cause much more rejection to America. Let's face it, no country in the world likes to be dominated and occupied, less an Arab country by the US with all its political connotations of Western dominance, Christian dominance,etc

A political shape must emerge with force out of a decision by the Iraqi people, Whether it be a unitarian republic, a monarchy, a federal republic, or three different states. A decision - very hard though, just evoke our lingering religion discussions, especially separation of it from state, more than 200 years after our independence - will need to be made about the role of religion in the state and secularism. Finally, they will need to define the Iraqi nationality as being different from the Irani, Kurd perhaps, etc.

All this process will take time. At the very least 10 to 20 years I guess. And the US has nothing to do in it but to maybe help technically and materially the un-political armed forces and police, not ever judging about the issues that are playing in the political chess game.

I just have to smile when I hear these neocons talking that they have a democracy down there. Please skip us from their childish and reckless behavior towards the rest of the world. Honestly, even if finally Iraq decides to be a friend and ally to Iran, there is nothing that the US can do.

If the road to the final socio political shape of Irak passes through a transient and strong (not very much democratic govenrnment), then let it be it. Many states in history achieved social stability and some sort of political maturity in this sort of "stabilizing periods" and the blood cup will be shorter and lesser that way. And this is not about morals other than the people's will. The US's only way today is to retreat, keep some technical support to the official/profesional army, and hope for the best. After all, we don't need to shed blood in this war.

Finally, the other side will say yes we got an Al Qaeda to beat and desarticulate down there. Not necessarily, the people of Iraq will do the job. Shiites don't like it, Kurds don't either and even Saddam did not like it because it taked away his nationalistic and secular vision of Iraq. I don't think they will have a possibility at all today. Our "help" will only make them more "heroes and martyrs" in the view of some people there.

Stop the US intervention now!

Posted by Frank42 at 09/02/2007 @ 05:42am
Posted earlier on the Sheehan thread:

Looks like our troops are experiencing a 60% increase in fatalities from last year. I'd say the surge is an obviously flawed strategy all round-- unless that's one of the hsuB/cHeney admin's intentions. Or the hsuB/cHeney admin simply don't care.

US fatalities in Iraq by month:

___2006________________2007

Jan-06 ___62_________Jan-07 ___83

Feb-06 ___55_________Feb-07 ___81

Mar-06 ___31_________Mar-07 __ 81

Apr-06 ___76_________Apr-07 _ 104

May-06 __ 69_________May-07 _126

Jun-06 ___61_________Jun-07 _ 101

Jul-06 ___ 43_________Jul-07 ___79

Aug-06 __ 65_________Aug-07 __81

Totals __ 462________________ 736

http://www.icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx

Want to see that go from 60% to 6000% increase-- bomb Iran.

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 03:28am

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:34pm
If one were to say that the increase in fatalities has a greater purpose, is one then implying that the previous 3000 did not... unless again, that 'is' the purpose, to increase our troop's fatalities.

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 03:46am

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:34pm
More Than 1,800 Iraqis Killed in August

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070901/iraq/

And only 1%, if that, were al-Qaida created in Iraq...

How successful was this stratedy of going into Iraq ever, when al-Qaeda in Afghanistan/Pakistan has been getting stronger as our troops and equipment, economy are being depleated, exhausted, maimed and killed. Clearly the hsuB/cHeney admin-- are not our nation's freinds. hsuB/cHeney are only frieinds of big corporate bud war profiteers .

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 12:11pm

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:36pm
er, strategy

musta mixed up with tragedy

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 12:14pm

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:36pm
If Bush was president during the Cuban Missile Crisis. . . we would all be dead.

Diplomacy is much more useful and effective than war, but you can't tell the GOP that anymore. They apparently only know half of Teddy Roosevelt's famous quote "Speak softly and carry a big stick" (I'm sure you can guess which half).

Submitted by ilyich on August 31, 2007 - 1:58pm

http://www.airamerica.com/node/5018#comment-237707

And hsuB says, "Speak sophly and carry a big Dick"

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 3:15pm

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:37pm
Global Research, August 30, 2007

International Atomic Energy Agency - 2007-08-21

Global Research Editorial Note

The mainstream media has failed to report the agreement reached between the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the Iranian government in regards to the Iranian nuclear energy program. An understanding has been reached between the two. The IAEA has given Iran's nuclear program a clean bill of health.

Why is the U.S. media not reporting on this matter? Why do the U.S. and its Western allies continue to threaten Iran with punitive bombings for its alleged non-compliance, when everything indicates that Iran has a bona fide nuclear energy program and does not have the capabilities of developing nuclear weapons?

The following are highlights from the document:

Article IV (1): These modalities cover all remaining issues and the Agency [meaning IAEA] confirmed that there are no other remaining issues and ambiguities regarding Iran's past nuclear program and activities.

Article IV (3): The Agency's delegation is of the view that the agreement on the above issues shall further promote the efficiency of the implementation of safeguards in Iran and its ability to conclude the exclusive peaceful nature of the Iran's nuclear activities.

Article IV (4): The Agency has been able to verify the non-diversion of the declared nuclear materials at the enrichment facilities in Iran and has therefore concluded that it remains in peaceful use.

Emphasis added

The Director-General of the IAEA has also confirmed in an interview published by Profil, an Austrian magazine that it is highly unlikely that Iran would pursue the development of a nuclear weapons program.

The document is a slap in the face for the Bush Administration. In light of these developments, it is no surprise that the Washington is now seeking to justify military action on the grounds that Iran is allegedly behind the killings of American troops in Iraq.

The fact of the matter is that the U.S. and its Coaltion partners, as confirmed by several reports, are in an "advanced state of readiness" to wage a military operation directed against Iran. What they now require is a new fabricated pretext which portrays Iran, in the eyes of public opinion, as a threat to world peace.

The Western media bears a heavy burden of responsibility in the current wave of disinformation regarding Iran.

Global Research, 30 August 2007

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6655

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/01/2007 @ 3:35pm

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 5:37pm
Ok, bottom line--- hsuB/cHeney never learn. They're all crony, all profiteering off others death and misery, all the time.

If hsuB had even learned his dry-drunk's prayer right, we'd all be in better shape: "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

We fund and use hospitals even though people continue to get sick and die from medical concerns, because we know the difference between what we can fix and what we can't.

We stopped slavery, increased rights for women, repealed prohibition, left Vietnam, didn't go to 'real/hot' war against Russia or China or Cuba, ... They all required wisdom to make the right choice.

Can anyone not doubt the lack of most, if not all levels, of what one can define as wisdom-- and this lack of wisdom has been proven over and over again by the hsuB/cHeney admin.

Drunks without this wisdom continue to lie to themselves and to others in order to continue drinking. Enablers ignore, conflate truth with lies or apologize to others for the lies of the addicts they're supporting.

In what universe can one believe any information by way of the hsuB/cHeney admin allowing them to continue their addiction(s)-- obtaining yet another hit of Iraq?

What's the wisest first step to stopping hsuB/cHeney from their addiction(s)?

Intervention.

Congressional intervention-- the people's house.

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/02/2007 @ 6:28pm
Accepting the information in Mr. Corn's piece at face value, is the Iraqi government mocking its American steward, or just doing an embarrassingly astute job of following our lead? Is this 'imitation as the sincerest form of floutery', or are they guilty only of emulating the governmental (ab)norms they find regularly chronicled in reports from the U.S. GAO? Let's face it, America -- we might be better placed to throw stones if we didn't live in a glass house.

Posted by mpwilliams at 09/03/2007 @ 10:55am
....is the Iraqi government mocking its American steward, or just doing an embarrassingly astute job of following our lead?....

Posted by MPWILLIAMS 09/03/2007 @ 10:55am

I don't think you are giving humanity enough credit! The desire to obtain illicit gains don't need teaching in any culture or during any time frame throughout human history! It's what makes us human!

One of TN blogger's (who shall be UNnamed) philosophy is in fact, that the criminal class is quite necessary to create jobs......UNnamed could probably make some good arguments that for each criminal, more than one job is created.....of course, he won't mention how many victims each career criminal will create and how much economic damages such criminal `job-creator' cause AND how many other jobs might have been created if said criminal WASN'T a criminal.......too complicated for "who shall be UNnamed"!

Some Idiot said at one time: "From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs"......think how to rephrase this to fit human realities!

Posted by Happy at 09/03/2007 @ 11:57am
Some Idiot said at one time: "From each according to his ability and to each according to his needs"......think how to rephrase this to fit human realities!

Posted by HAPPY 09/03/2007 @ 11:57am

The 'Idiot' was Karl Marx, the high concept was Socialism, and the direct relevance to my earlier remark rather escapes me, but I'll take a stab at rephrasing your Marx passage to suit a more contemporary -- if less high-minded -- political and social sensibility: "From each according to their vulnerability and to each according to their avarice." Or, in the political vernacular of 2000, 'Compassionate Conservatism'.

Posted by mpwilliams at 09/03/2007 @ 1:27pm
"From each according to his hut and to each according to his hummer"

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/03/2007 @ 1:52pm
What should one expect?? We taught them how to do it. Remember those shrink-wrapped "bricks" of $100 bills that Bushie sent to Iraq where they ... just disappeared, with no record, no accounting. Wonder how many Bremer got -- or Rumsfeld

Posted by AbnerS at 09/03/2007 @ 10:41pm
rink-wrapped "bricks" of $100 bills that Bushie sent to Iraq where they ... just disappeared, with no record, no accounting. Wonder how many Bremer got -- or Rumsfeld

Posted by ABNERS 09/03/2007 @ 10:41pm

well, toilet paper is hard to come by in the green zone (aptly named)

hey folks google "sailboat fuel" with iraq

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/04/2007 @ 12:33am
if anything, you could say they are "forced" to leave to seek greater security......another thing, when the time comes, many will return!

Posted by HAPPY 09/01/2007 @ 12:55pm | ignore this person

You make it sound like a vacation. You're such a douchebag. Three years after "Mission Accomplished" much of the upper class and half of the middle class has fled Iraq because they want to live not die... because they have so little security. Somewhere between 100,000 and 600,000 Iraqi civilians have died becuase of Bush's pre-emptive war on Iraq. Iraqis leave their homes, their jobs and many of their posessions and flee with their lives. It's not a weekend camping trip. The financial and logistical burden this has put on neighboring countries like Jordan, Saudi Arabi and Libya is a huge financial burden-maybe that's something you can relate to. You are an ugly american. You cannot see past your own inflated sense of self.

What if war came to your neighborhood and you had to flee your home, leave your job, and take your family to a foriegn country to keep them alive? Would you be so flip about the nature of the inconvenience and suggest that all is well that ends well? I doubt it. We'd all here about the great injustice done to Happy horseshit the do-gooder scout leader.

Posted by NeilSagan at 09/04/2007 @ 01:49am
Corruption is a major defining characteristic of the Bush regime, should it be any surprise that its puppet government in Iraq is the same: incapable of meeting even the needs of the country's citizens outside the privileged class?

Posted by ARCHANGEL_M at 09/04/2007 @ 07:58am
please read [tinyurl.com]

corruption at the most base level. corruption of the heart.

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/04/2007 @ 08:09am
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/02/2007 @ 5:37pm

Actually, HSUB....the Cuban Missile Crises might have gone down like this [en.wikipedia.org].

Posted by Mask at 09/04/2007 @ 09:27am
Posted by MASK 09/04/2007 @ 09:27am | ignore this person

LOL

the best part is when canadian troops occupy the u.s., possibly with ulterior motives.

they're gonna change "baseball, hot dogs, and apple pie" to "lacrosse (the REAL national sport), poutine (google it) , and nanaimo bars (yum-google it)"

best think that could happen to y'all ::::::::::::::::o}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/04/2007 @ 09:43am
The real question is how did you obtain this "secret" document? Who leaked this info to you?

Posted by abell12ct at 09/04/2007 @ 12:22pm
Stae polls where hsuB is still with a job approval in the 20's and one below that... So in a month when congressional investigations turn up and put out into the media more dirt on the hsuB/cHeney admin, how low will these polls go?

Pennsylvania President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Strategic Vision Date: 7-7-07 N=1200 LV

Approve: 23

Disapprove: 68

Unsure: 9

California President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Public Policy Institute of California Statewide Survey Date: 7-7-07 N=2500 AA

Approve: 26

Disapprove: 68

Unsure: 6

Connecticut President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Quinnipiac University Poll Date: 5-5-07 N=1427 RV

Approve: 24

Disapprove: 72

Unsure: 4

Maine President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Critical Insights Date: 4-24-07 N=600 AA

Favorable: 20

Unfavorable: 66

Unsure: 13

Maryland President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Gonzales Research & Marketing Strategies Date: 1-25-07 N=809 AV

Approve: 25

Disapprove: 68

Unsure: 7

Michigan President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Strategic Vision Date: 7-7-07 N=1200 LV

Approve: 22

Disapprove: 71

Unsure: 7

Minnesota President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Mason Dixon Polling & Research for Minnesota Public Radio Date: 5-8-07 N=625 LV

Excellent: 9

Good: 20

Fair: 23

Poor: 48

New Hampshire President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: CNN/WMUR/University of New Hampshire Granite State Poll Date: 7-13-07 N=523 AA

Approve: 24

Disapprove: 72

Unsure: 4

New Jersey President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Fairleigh Dickinson University PublicMind Poll Date: 5-4-07 N=648 RV

Excellent: 4

Good: 18

Fair: 27

Poor: 50

Unsure: 1

New York President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Siena College Poll Date: 4-18-07 N=980 RV

Approve: 29

Disapprove: 65

Unsure: 6

Ohio President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Quinnipiac University Poll Date: 7-6-07 N=1447 RV

Approve: 29

Disapprove: 66

Unsure: 5

Pennsylvania President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Strategic Vision Date: 7-7-07 N=1200 LV

Approve: 23

Disapprove: 68

Unsure: 9

Vermont President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Research 2000 for WCAX Date: 5-6-06 N=400 LV

Excellent: 2

Good: 24

Fair: 53

Poor: 21

Wisconsin President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Strategic Vision Date: 7-14-07 N=800 LV

Approve: 19

Disapprove: 73

Unsure: 8

Posted by hsuBfools at 09/04/2007 @ 7:01pm
Wisconsin President Bush Approval Rating Polls

Title: Strategic Vision Date: 7-14-07 N=800 LV

Approve: 19

Disapprove: 73

Unsure: 8

Posted by HSUBFOOLS 09/04/2007 @ 7:01pm

i guess bush won't be invited to any packer's games this season!!!

Posted by frosty zoom at 09/04/2007 @ 11:12pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/04/2007 @ 09:43am |

Yeah, you sneaky Canucks were just looking for your chance to jump us and replace our good, decent American "Canadian bacon" with "back bacon" and our Roosevelt dimes with those pennies!

heheh

Posted by Mask at 09/05/2007 @ 08:42am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/04/2007 @ 11:12pm

i guess bush won't be invited to any packer's games this season!!!

Or Congress either - their approval ratings are even lower.

Posted by pontificus at 09/05/2007 @ 3:05pm

David Corn

Washington--a city of denials, spin, and political calculations. They may speak English there, but most citizens still need an interpreter to understand its ways and meanings. DAVID CORN, the Washington editor of The Nation magazine, has spent years analyzing the policies and pursuing the lies that spew out of the nation's capital. He is a novelist, biographer, and television and radio commentator who is able to both decipher and scrutinize Washington.

In his dispatches, he takes on the day-by-day political and policy battles under way in the Capitol, the White House, the think tanks, and the television studios. With an informed, unconventional perspective, he holds the politicians, policymakers and pundits accountable and reports the important facts and views that go uncovered elsewhere.

Check out David Corn's latest book, (co-written with Michael Isikoff and now available in paperback), Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War (Crown Publishers). For information, visit his personal blog at davidcorn.com.

Photo Credit: Michael Lorenzini

Secret Report: Corruption is "Norm" Within Iraqi Government

posted by David Corn on 08/30/2007 @ 3:07pm

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Secret Report: Corruption is "Norm" Within Iraqi Government

posted by David Corn on 08/30/2007 @ 3:07pm

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