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RedditPoor John McCain.
He let the Bush-Cheney operatives who took over his Republican presidential campaign late in the summer talk him into running a scorched-earth campaign attacking Barack Obama.
But, now that the campaign is fully operational, McCain is shocked and unsettled by what he is hearing from his own supporters.
"I don't trust Obama," a woman at a town hall meeting in Minnesota told McCain. "I have read about him. He's an Arab."
McCain silenced her and said, "No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues..."
The crowd booed the Arizona senator's attempt to quiet the hate speech that has become such a major feature of events at which he and his over-the-top running mate, ethically-challenged Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, have appeared in recent days.
When a man in the crowd suggested that he was scared about raising his child in an America led by a President Barack Obama, McCain countered him.
Speaking of Obama, the Republican presidential nominee said: "I have to tell you, he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States."
That may seem rich coming from the man who has "approved this message" of smearing Obama at every turn.
It certainly did not go over well with his backers.
McCain's description of Obama as "decent" drew loud booing from the crowd that had come to hear trash talking -- not the truth.
"If you want a fight, we will fight," McCain continued, trying to calm, his feverish backers. "But we will be respectful. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments."
At that, the mob booed even more loudly.
Here's what it looked like when McCain said he admires Obama.
"He let the Bush-Cheney operatives... talk him into running a scorched-earth campaign attacking Barack Obama. "
Mr. Nichols, it seems reasonable to consider other causal variables, as many Nation articles have. The thirty people on record testifying as to his red faced finger poking volatile temper, for example.
A combinational argument is also stronger when considering the 100 years in Iraq stance and Iran bluster.
And if you know anything about psychoanalysis, aggression & sex travel are the base pair drives. His problems with inhibition therefore show up in gambling and six, possibly helping to explain the choice of under-vetted Palin as a sex object(soul mate.
"Temper Mental"
Posted by winyahn at 10/10/2008 @ 11:03pm
In 1953, the late Oscar Shaftel, Queens College Professor of English literature and Oriental studies refused to tell Senator Joseph McCarthy and the Senate Internal Security Committee whether or not he was or had ever been a communist and refused to name his friends and colleagues. For those refusals--as was the custom at the time--Queens College, where he had taught since its founding in 1937, fired him. But Professor did tell the senators: "I cannot imagine a capable administrator telling Sean O'Casey he could not teach drama, or Picasso that he couldn't teach art."
In 1982, 14 years after the last of the laws used to fire him was ruled unconstitutional, Dr. Shaftel was finally given a city pension. At a news conference, he was asked whether he felt he had regained his honor. He looked out into the lights and said quietly, "I never lost my honor."
You Betcha! Professor Shaftel never lost his honor. But the same cannot be said of John McCain. He has driven himself into the gutter since first abandoning the "Straight Talk Express" four years ago, when, within a few days after stating "you don't question a man's service," he sat on his hands silently while his nemesis, George W., swift-boated by proxy John Kerry--a good, decent and arguably honorable man.
While today's events have turned a few heads, including mine, Senator McCain still has a long way towards recapturing his honor. I wish him well–just not in the election.
Posted by bobforer at 10/10/2008 @ 11:15pm
Like a certain scientist doctor from literature and film...
McCain created his Creature, but it's escaped from the lab and now on a rampage around the countryside.
He thought he could control it...use it....but it was a force on its own and now he's trying to get it back into the basement and chain it up.
But it's too late. The Creature will destroy HIM if he disobeys.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/10/2008 @ 11:15pm
Or less metaphorically...
McCain in a box of his own making-
1. Sound like the Rabid Right in the next weeks or especially at the debate....he loses ALL hope with Moderates and Independents.
2. DON'T sound like them....after Glacial Gidget, Cindy, and himself SHOVELED red meat to the lions...and they'll turn on him as "weak" or even "a sell-out".
3. Split the difference...and he'll satisfy nobody!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/10/2008 @ 11:17pm
I can't find anyone who hates Bush.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/10/2008 @ 11:37pm
Does this mean that the hate monger Palin will stop trying to incite violence at her rallies?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/10/2008 @ 11:43pm
beeding hart - get yr hed out yr arse and look around, there are at least 5 billion on planet
Posted by RocketJ at 10/10/2008 @ 11:43pm
RocketJ,
The left doesn't HATE. Haven't you heard?
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/10/2008 @ 11:52pm
Did it strike anyone else as odd that McCain's answer to the woman who said she couldn't trust Obama and that he was an Arab was "No, ma'am. He's a decent, family man." As if "Arab" was a synonym for "terrorist" or "child molester"?
I guess it would be asking too much to expect this woman to absorb two fundamental facts: 1) Saying someone is an Arab tells us nothing more of a person's character than saying he is Italian or Polish, and 2) Mr. Obama happens not to be of Arab descent. Sheesh! Do we have to tell you EVERYTHING???
Posted by basilissa at 10/11/2008 @ 12:06am
basilissa,
I think people are overly sensitive about the Arab thing becasue of the little world trade center incident. You know how some people are.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/11/2008 @ 12:12am
well written Bobforer. that is an excellent point to make. I've always admired Oscar Shaftel for his strength, when few around him were willing to be strong.
"I will never forget that the only reason that I'm standing here today is because somebody, somewhere stood up for me when it was risky. Stood up when it was hard. Stood up when it wasn't popular. And because that Somebody stood up, a few more stood up. And then a few thousand stood up. And then a few million stood up. And standing up with clear purpose, they somehow managed to change the world." Barack Obama
Posted by quinndiesel at 10/11/2008 @ 12:14am
bleedingheart-No.It's because many of you republicans don't believe in what America stands for.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 12:15am
man - if one needed any more proof than the last 8 years that ignorant, violent evil lurks in the hearts of every hardcore rightwing repugnant ideologue, a perusing of these latest siegheilfests mccain and palin have been running...
what decency is left in flippy make seems to be making him sick and queezy at the thought of having to acept their support...
kinda reminds me of that movie, "the chronicles of riddik", when vin diesel's character realized he's now in charge of the insane, evil necromongers...
necromongers...actually not an innapropriate moniker for these violent, deathwishing p-zombie fanatics.
Posted by dexter666 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:21am
i'm nobody,
I'm not a republican. And what does America stand for?
nationbuilding? genocide? wallstreet bailouts? environmental destruction? racial solidarity? NAFTA?
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/11/2008 @ 12:28am
Do we have to tell you EVERYTHING???
Posted by basilissa at 10/11/2008 @ 12:06am | ignore this person | warn this person
yeah, though you would be wasting your breath. these p-zombies are some combination of ignorant, stupid, deluded, hate filled, detached from reality, paranoid, and bigotted...
they would as soon shoot you as look at you for telling them the truth if they could get away with it...
nothing terribly new here, except this rabid filth is now weakened, discreditted, feeling more cornered and desperate every day, and is therefore percolating toward the violent "turner diaries" climax they have fantasized about along with the rapture for years...
no - stay as far away from them as you can and arm yourself if you live near them and they find out you voted for obama.
seriously - expect more oklahoma style violence after obama is elected as one by one their evil fantasies are discreditted, dinting their prideful egos and discretiding their evil ideology. or perhaps politically motivated shooting spree/suicidal episodes, and definately more martyrdom seeking as they insist on breaking laws by hording dangerous weaponry, daring the awful old federal (or state) gubbamint to enforce the laws of the land, and going down in a blaze of glory...
the next ruby ridge, however, should not be dealt with by surrounding their compound and shooting it out with them. that might result in the death of hard working law enforcement officers...i suggest air strikes called in against the rebelious seccecionist fascist criminals...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:35am
Glacial Gidget
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/10/2008 @ 11:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
oh! you mean palin! LMAO...
for a second i thought palin was sending a couple of her kids out to campaign with the mccains...glacial and gidget...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:40am
While today's events have turned a few heads, including mine, Senator McCain still has a long way towards recapturing his honor. I wish him well–just not in the election.
Posted by bobforer at 10/10/2008 @ 11:15pm
Bob, it seems to me that McCain cannot recapture honor that, generally speaking, he has spent a lifetime lacking. He now tries to recapture the myth of that honor, but a cursory examination of his life, dating to his youth, shows him to be no more honorable than that other failed scion of a wealthy and/or powerful family, George W. Bush. This campaign has simply reflected what Cliff Schechter called "The Real McCain" from his book of the same name. A campaign of uncontrollable rage, contempt for all of those who dare question him, an ego far outstripping any real accomplishments, lies, innuendos, character assassination, even attacks on Michelle Obama, and before today, a seeming desire on McCain's part to see Obama killed if that would satisfy McCain' s blind ambition and his petulant blood lust. If McCain had the slightest honor, he would withdraw from this race and take his ignorant, corrupt VP candidate with him. The two of them, and their fellow travelers, have further poisoned a process that their miserable excuse for a political party has been poisoning for better than 40 years. It is high time to put an end to this neo-Confederate fascist party as any kind of force in American politics. It is time to return this government to one of laws, not the sick cult of Republican personality that we have had to endure time and again since Nixon. The Republican Party has utterly dishonored America, and apparently will continue to do so. And McCain is simply not credible.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 12:41am
bleedingheart-You are,quite obviously,a republican.Ask me questions when you get honest.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 12:46am
I think people are overly sensitive about the Arab thing becasue of the little world trade center incident. You know how some people are.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/11/2008 @ 12:12am
I watched that bit, and that woman could not have been more ignorant or racist. I was also struck by the "family man" reference, as if Arabs are incapable of such nobility. The truth is, she wouldn't know the difference between an Arab, an Israeli, a Kurd, an Afghani, and, apparently, a native of Hawaii. People like that generally don't need 9/11 as an excuse to hate anyone who's different. It just comes to them pretty naturally, I guess.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 12:48am
"It is high time to put an end to this neo-Confederate fascist party as any kind of force in American politics. It is time to return this government to one of laws, not the sick cult of Republican personality that we have had to endure time and again since Nixon. The Republican Party has utterly dishonored America, and apparently will continue to do so." jm
True, absolutely true.
There's another problem, however, in that too many Dem pols still behave like the GOP. Starting with the House & Senate leadership.
Posted by sloper at 10/11/2008 @ 12:48am
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 12:41am | ignore this person | warn this person
hear hear!
i've known these types personally and although indeed their gun worship is scary, they are, in fact cowards of the lowest form.
but even cowards can eventually snap and do horribly cowardly things to decent folk.
look at oklahoma city...look forward to more oklahoma cities, ruby ridges, wacos, and other such manifestations of their bloodthirsty fantasies...
a menace to our country and all who disagree with/oppose their will to dominance and violence.
Posted by dexter666 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:52am
Oh brother - this doesn't look good - but from what I see it looks like Sen. Obama needs to REALLY watch his back, I'm sure that some of the hate crowd loonies now think they have a open license on Sen Obama and hunting season has opened, courtesy of the Ice Queen and her rapid response mouth... Maybe the Secret Service should be stepping in on this one, folks.
Also - what happens if anything (God forbid!) DOES happen to Barry O by way of hate crime? Do the bastards win AGAIN by default (I can't believe that could happen!), or does good ol' Joe B. step up to the plate (and the bullseye)? Say it ain't so, Joe!
Posted by ucnick at 10/11/2008 @ 12:55am
I think its a shame that the people are filled with hate. But lets look at something closer. 90 years ago the very same people, (poor, lesser educated farmers, blue collars, laborers etc) were just as disaffected with their lot in life. They were just as angry about their lack of control, their corporate masters, and their lack of any real political or economic power. But instead of lashing out (this is a generalization, i realize there was some lashing out) they formed unions, trade organizations, news papers, political machines. There was leadership that brought this organization. Union leadership. Men like W.E.B DuBois, Cesar Chavez, Mother Jones. They created something powerful. They organized under that leadership, and became the progressive movement, galvanized by the Depression. Since then, we, as progressives, have abdicated that position of leadership. We compromised. And in achieving many of our goals, we got lazy. In that vacuum, the through their alliance with corporate media, and the right wing churches, the Republican Party has taken control of the reins. And in the absence of true leadership, has only convinced the masses who they need to fear, and hate. My point, is that we will never reclaim that position of leadership, and reinstill progressive thought and organization, if we continue to marginalize the very people we hope to help. They will never ask us to lead, if we hand them a similar dose of judgment, labeling, marginalizing, and slander. And we will continue to lose. Its frustrating to hear them talk like that. But there is no reason why Texas can not send another who signs the Civil Rights Bill, or the Medicare Act. Its simply a matter of leadership, and a message.
Posted by quinndiesel at 10/11/2008 @ 12:55am
I meant to write,
There is no reason why Texas can not send another President to the White House, who signs the Civil Rights Act, or the Medicare Act, and not another Bush.
Posted by quinndiesel at 10/11/2008 @ 12:59am
jmusolino, point well-taken. Like many progressives, I sometimes have a bleeding heart for the pathetically beaten. John McCain was never much better than the garden-variety scrounging politicians--democrat and republican alike--whom have polluted our democracy for decades. But ocasionally, over the years, he did show a flash or two of courage.
Just today, Christoher Buckley, William F.'s son, endorsed Sentator Obama. see http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/ 2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama/.
Here's, in part, what he had to say:
"McCain rose to power on his personality and biography. He was authentic. He spoke truth to power. He told the media they were "jerks" (a sure sign of authenticity, to say nothing of good taste; we are jerks). He was real. He was unconventional. He embraced former anti-war leaders. He brought resolution to the awful missing-POW business. He brought about normalization with Vietnam--his former torturers! Yes, he erred in accepting plane rides and vacations from Charles Keating, but then, having been cleared on technicalities, groveled in apology before the nation. He told me across a lunch table, "The Keating business was much worse than my five and a half years in Hanoi, because I at least walked away from that with my honor." Your heart went out to the guy. I thought at the time, God, this guy should be president someday."
While Christopher's father was a red-baiting hard-core cold warrior, he was, still an intellectual. And in this regard, today, his son shined brilliantly--perhaps momentarily--with some good old intellectually honesty. For that same reason, and also today, John McCain, wiped away a small schmutz or two of his shame.
Posted by bobforer at 10/11/2008 @ 01:19am
re: Glacial Gidget
She ain't so cool
And her glaciers are disappearing.
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 10/11/2008 @ 01:27am
republicans are so discredited that only the rabid or shamefully stupid can actually support them and attend their rallies. this has been true for some time. but it doesnt really matter because the glaciers are, as noted above, melting. the oil is running out.
Posted by montemerrick at 10/11/2008 @ 01:34am
Thanks for the props, quinndiesel. My father, a Queens College grad and life-long-stand-up-guy and community activist, was mentored by Oscar.
The eloquent words of Obama you quote honors the hundreds of thousands of courageous Americans--before and after Professor Shaftel--who have from time-to-time stood up and revived American Democracy's promise as the last best hope for the human race.
Well chosen!
Here's hoping Obama lives up to his promise.
Posted by bobforer at 10/11/2008 @ 01:37am
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 12:41am
Maybe he had a "brief moment of clarity." Tomorrow (jeez, it IS tomorrow) will be an interesting day. What if he told the leadership to go to hell, that he wouldn't represent such a hateful and ignorant class of Americans, that they could replace him with PowerPalinWoman and he would peacefully retire into one of his (how many, again?) houses to write his memoirs. Again. Maybe, just maybe he would endorse Obama ("I know we have some fundamental disagreements" - in a Nixon tone of voice - "but he is a good and decent family man and an apparently tireless, hardworking Senator from the GREAT STATE OF ILLINOIS and he deserves all of our support."
It's a Harry Potter world, seems like imho
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 10/11/2008 @ 01:38am
Dear bleedingheart, Those responsible for the WTC horror were Saudis. If you are going to be racist can you please be more accurate in your blanket generalisations. People's fear of Obama being an "Arab" is not explained by 911. Stupidity and racism, yes. 911, no. What, for example, do Morocco, Lebanon, Kuwait, Oman and Egypt have to do with 911? P.S. You are forgetting that 911 was planned by the estranged son of George Bush's good friend.
Posted by doginamanger at 10/11/2008 @ 02:09am
Sign this petition if you think McCain should stop talking about Obama and William Ayers...and start talking about the economy instead:
http://www.McCainPetition.com
Gregg
Posted by PrivateCitizen at 10/11/2008 @ 02:31am
I am curious - why are our usual right-wing 'friends' missing from the comments section on this post and the Palin ethics abuse post?
Posted by oneworld at 10/11/2008 @ 02:57am
why are our usual right-wing 'friends' missing from the comments section on this post and the Palin ethics abuse post?
Why?? All three of them, with their many aliases, were just released by the floundering and sinking McCain campaign.
Posted by bobforer at 10/11/2008 @ 03:09am
"He's an arab!" "No, no ma'am. He is a decent person."
How much more racist can we get? What if the woman had said: "He's a jew!" or "He's black!"
McCain would have been lambasted for inferring that jews or blacks are not decent people.
Couple this with David Zucker's new racist/ethnophobic movie the American Carol and the "free" movie Obsession by Clarion Fund and we have an epidemic of belittlement and dehumanization of the Arab and Muslim people like never before.
If this goes unabated, soon we will have to wear an armband with a moon on it... to keep the rest of America feel safe.
Obama should speak out against this hatred as well not hide behind it!
Posted by malmassa at 10/11/2008 @ 04:44am
i'm nobody,
If someone doesn't support Obama they're a republican? Whatever, but I won't be voting for McCain either. What's the difference?
Getting out of Iraq? No
A healthcare bill with any teeth? No
A bailout for wallstreet? Yes
I'm voting NADER/GONZALES '08!!
(And I hope EVERYBODY reading this votes Obama, at least watching the hypocrisy for 4/8 years will be entertaining.)
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/11/2008 @ 07:52am
The real affront is the lack of firm response from either McCain or Palin. Neither has had the moral courage, when taking the stage, to grasp the microphone, turn to the presenter and, right then and there, denounce the use of Obama's middle name as an insult. Instead, they have simply delivered their stump speeches, lacing into Obama as if nothing out-of-bounds had just happened. The McCain-Palin ticket has given toxic speeches accusing Obama of being a friend of terrorists, then released short, meek repudiations of some of the rough stuff, including McCain's call Friday to "be respectful." Back in February, the Arizona senator apologized for the "disparaging remarks" from a talk-radio host who sneered repeatedly about "Barack Hussein Obama" before a McCain rally. "We will have a respectful debate," McCain insisted afterward. But pretending to douse flames that you are busy fanning does not qualify as straight talk.
Posted by throwin at 10/11/2008 @ 08:14am
You can see McCains conscience showing through. A repub with a conscience? Hard to believe.
It looked to me that he has realized that he has lost. And that the decent and good part of him is showing. That is bad news for Repubs. They know that if you do the right thing, you are weak.
He seemed visibly disturbed by the ignorance and rascism of his own constituents.
I almost feel sorry for him. But not quite. It is always sad to see a man defeated by his own blind ambition.
It was like a momentary epiphany that he suddenly realized that he was being supported by a mob of insane, rascist and ignorant space cadets.
I think at the bottom of the morass John McCain is a decent human being, however misguided.
Posted by chaoszen at 10/11/2008 @ 08:36am
You can't feel sorry for him! He IS John McCain and he DID approve those messages!
Posted by throwin at 10/11/2008 @ 09:01am
Poor man just wants to be president and outdo his father and Grandfather before he kicks the bucket.
Posted by Beowolf at 10/11/2008 @ 09:11am
Posted by throwin at 10/11/2008 @ 09:01am
I said "Almost" feel sorry him.
As a side note I would like to bump pee pee's with Cindy McCain.
Sick huh?
Posted by chaoszen at 10/11/2008 @ 09:15am
that is sick. She is really creepy! I bet Sarah Palin smells nice.
Posted by quinndiesel at 10/11/2008 @ 10:27am
McCain was right in correcting that woman's misconceptions about Obama's ancestery. Unfortunately, he also had to be politically correct in adding the ridiculous statement about accomplishments.
Obama is the least qualified candidate from a major party in our country's history.
He trained under and worked for radical organizations like Acorn. He was first elected to office running in the marxist/socialist New Party. He had a leader in the CPUSA (Communist Party USA) running a blog on his campaign website until people started to talk about it. He is the first Democrat to be endorsed by the CPUSA.
His potential election is a threat to the continuation of our nation as a constitutional republic.
This week, I have been in dialogue with hundreds of Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish voters around the country, who share the same fears of this man becoming our next president.
If he is elected, the left may realize their dream of destroying our constitutional republic and it's replacement by a socialist form of govt.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:20am
If Obama is elected, than I share with Rev Wright (although not in his language), that G-d should condemn and cast judgment on this nation for it's all out descent into moral decay.
If Obama is elected, we could see the Federal financing of infanticide
We could see a nation rampant with homsexuality as a "norm". Homosexual marriage being celebrated as equal to what G-d has created.
We will see taxation policies that turn us into a 3rd world nation as corporations flee the country to go where taxes are more equitable (even Europe no longer has the hunger to steal so much from business).
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:30am
If Obama is elected, and the left carries out it's social agenda, Paul's words in Romans 1 may be fully evident
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness;
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:35am
Homosexual marriage being celebrated as equal to what G-d has created. Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:30am
God created homosexuality.
The bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean, that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 11:39am
A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
-- Carl Sagan
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 11:42am
Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life.
-- Eric Hoffer
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 11:42am
Calm down, lvlib. God will not strike us down if Obama wins. Get a grip. While reading your words I picture a headless chicken running in circles. Do you really feel that Obama is so incredibly terrible? Really? Are you that afraid?
Posted by k330k at 10/11/2008 @ 11:55am
I'm sorry, but this all feels a bit too staged to me. I would not be surprised at all, if this were not all part of their campaign strategy. Here's how I think this page looks in the McCain Campaign Play Book: 1. Paint "that one" as a devil/alien in rallies and advertising; hope for some outbursts. (Note: strategically place preprogrammed 'righteously angry voices' in the crowd.) 2. Let it simmer for a little bit in the media and hope for a ruckus. 3. Rile 'em up (see note in 1) then ride to the rescue. (Note: John, you'll be a hero. Imagine it- the lone voice of sanity/moderation against the justifiably angry, fearful mob; a shining beacon of courage, honor, and decency. We can't lose either way we play it. You quell the mob - "What a leader!", we win. The mob rails - "Look at how angry and afraid people are", we win. It's brilliant!)
Posted by joduh at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
God created homosexuality.
The bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean, that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 11:39am
It is an abomination to G-d.
Furthermore, not just those that practice stand condemned, but those who do not approve of it.
Romans 1:31
knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
lvliberty-If McCain is elected people will stop being gay?Having Bush elected did not stop people from being gay or go into the closet.In fact,the opposite happened. .The marriage that your God created was arranged marriages where the wife or wives were little more than slaves both sexually and otherwise.If gays choose to be gay in order to get lots of kinky sex then why would they want to get married when everyone knows that marriage is a sex killer?People on both sides need to get over the idea that the world will end if the other side gets elected.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
lvliberty-According to you lying is as bad as adultery,murder,and being gay so why aren't you condemning Palin's lying and saying that electing her will bring down Gods wrath?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 12:02pm
I don't hate McCain. Hell, I don't the know the man well enough to make that call. I do know I haven't agreed with many of his political decisions over the past five years, especially those concerning the Iraq war. During the 2000 election I was pulling for him to be the Republican nominee. If I had had a choice between McCain or Bush being president, I would have chosen McCain. I don't feel likw that anymore. I think he sold-out to the Republican machine and I lost respect for the man because of it. This McCain is not the McCain I fell in love with.:)
Posted by k330k at 10/11/2008 @ 12:03pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:35am
LOL....strip away the rhetoricc and ...translation?
"Elect Obama and face the Wrath of God!!!!!"
Larry is now officially nuts.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 12:04pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 12:04pm
Hey Mask. I must say I've never read a nuttier post by lvlib before. He has gone to another level.
Posted by k330k at 10/11/2008 @ 12:11pm
It is an abomination to G-d.
Furthermore, not just those that practice stand condemned, but those who do not approve of it.
Romans 1:31
knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
Correction: those who approve of it.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:28pm
LvLiberty-Some of us go with what Jesus said and choose to not judge others or cast the first stone and try to work on ourselves and our behavior rather than concerning ourselves with what gays are doing.I don't even condemn Palin's lying because I've done that one and accept the fact that that is what most people do..The reason that people die has nothing to do with sin,but we die because the world would be rather crowded if we didn't.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 12:35pm
LOL....strip away the rhetoricc and ...translation?
"Elect Obama and face the Wrath of God!!!!!"
Larry is now officially nuts.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 12:04pm
It's not just Obama.
1. It is the fact that he offers the left their opportunity to lead our nation into further moral decay.
That decay is an in your face at G-d. Daring Him to execute judgment. He may well do so. We certainly will deserve it (putting me squarely in agreement with Rev Wright, but for different reasons).
2. It is the fact that he gives the Democratic Congress no check on their push to create a socialist US. Without a balance in the White House, the Dems will destroy what's left of our constitutional republic.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:44pm
lvliberty-You can never show that the right is moral nor can you show that the left is immoral because people on both sides engage in the same actions.God did not stop 9/11 or Katrina from happening on moral Bush's watch,but those things did not happen on immoral Clinton's watch. .Nothing like facts to ruin your argument.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 12:53pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:44pm
No...none of that "is a fact".
What IS a fact is you are a hypocritical nutjob...who thinks he is more "devoted to the troops" because you want more of them to die in a war YOU already admitted is a "losing cause."
Who both embraces a religious dogma that tells you Israel is "protected by God"...and a paranoia that tells you if we don't attack Iran, they'll vaporize Israel.
And who claims to be a Christian and hates homosexuality....but embraces wholesale slaughter of civilians ("Think Dresden") and approves of torture.
And your Vice-Presidential candidate violated an ethics act and abused her office....and yet you, strict moralist that you are, still support her!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 12:53pm
it is unfortunate that christianity can be so easily interpreted as a hate filled doctrine that encourages evil, violence fantasizing, ignorant paranoids to take to the streets and support fascist antidemocratic, unamerican, treasonous traitorous, evil ideology such as that of the republican party.
"KILL HIM!" the p-zombie fascist rapturously screamed from the mccain palin audience!
BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
real christians unite to oppose this ABOMINATION known as the republican party and its two person sleeper cell of fascist terror supporters.
and all real democracy, apple pie and mom loving america loving americans beware your fascist neighbors...
they are ignorant, hate filled, violence pronem unstable, martyrdom seeking, and...
HEAVILY ARMED...
once the cryptofascist alliance known as the republican party is defeated and their 8 year illegal usurpation of power is up, these evil hypocritical fascists in lamb's clothing will resume their terorist campaign against decent, patriotic americans.
remember oklahoma city?
arm yourselves and keep an eye peeled for rightwing christofascist/anarchofascist gunmen on mass murder sprees in search of martyrdom as well as more death dealing cowardly bombbings of any institution they feel threatens/mocks them...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/11/2008 @ 12:57pm
lvliberty-The economic problems that we are facing are happening on moral Bush's watch,but did not happen on immoral Clinton's watch.In fact,the opposite happened and the economy was good under Clinton.Bush was unable to win quickly in Iraq, as he should have.Does not seem that God is with the moral right.Sorry to bring more facts into the discussion.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 1:06pm
What a deplorable human being.-----Posted by madlib at 10/11/2008 @ 12:55pm
Oh go over to "Thirty Years of War in Afghanistan" thread...
Larry himself calls Afghanistan a "losing cause"...but says that if you don't want to keep the troops dying for it, you "hate the troops"!
He also insults a general officer of the British Army who's actually BEEN in Afghanistan AND won victories against the Taliban, while the closest LL has gotten to anything Afghani is a hound one of his parishoners has.
Plus you'll notice that for someone who lectures on morality....he's oddly silent over Sarah Palin violating an ethics act and abusing her office...????
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 1:15pm
lvliberty should probably take a look at exactly what is left of our constitutional republic before he gets into a twist about the Democrats ruining it.
Posted by beeswax at 10/11/2008 @ 1:43pm
If he is elected, the left may realize their dream of destroying our constitutional republic and it's replacement by a socialist form of govt.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:20am
lvliberty should probably take a look at exactly what is left of our constitutional republic before he gets into a twist about the Democrats ruining it.
Posted by beeswax at 10/11/2008 @ 1:43pm
Posted by Malcontent at 10/11/2008 @ 1:47pm
Larry himself calls Afghanistan a "losing cause"...but says that if you don't want to keep the troops dying for it, you "hate the troops"!
He also insults a general officer of the British Army who's actually BEEN in Afghanistan AND won victories against the Taliban, while the closest LL has gotten to anything Afghani is a hound one of his parishoners has.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 1:15pm
Making a truthful representation of what others say is something you have yet to prove any proficiency in.
I did not say Afghanistan is a losing cause. I presented the facts about US warfare. As repeasted below, it said nothing of the kind. It points out that we don't quit, even in those situations where we know we are losing. That is a general statement and not one that was specifically directed towards Afghanistan. But for Mask, the truth is never as important as his persistence in lying about what everyone else has actually said.
"I don't care if a 1000 generals say we can't win.
There have been many battles fought where we knew we would lose. But you fight anyway because defeatism and surrender are not part of our venacular. Secondly, when you consider the ultimate cost of surrender as you would love to see, neither the US nor the world can afford the results this would bring.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/10/2008 @ 3:23p"
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 1:50pm
I did not say Afghanistan is a losing cause.-----Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 1:50pm
What you leave out of the conclusions is that Smith like any good officer will still command his men to engage in a losing fight when there is no alternative. That decision is most often made by the ultimate commanders; in this case Bush, Brown, and NATO itself. And yes, sometimes soldiers understand sacrificing their lives in a losing cause because the alternative is much worse.-----Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/10/2008 @ 5:21pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 1:55pm
So, you mentioned Mark Carleton-Smith, British commander in AFGHANISTAN....you mentioned George W. Bush....you mentioned Gordon Brown....you mentioned NATO...the THREAD was on AFGHANISTAN...
but you were "not saying Afghanistan is a losing cause"....but "it was a general statement not one that was specifically directed towards Afghanistan."
Ah-ha
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 1:58pm
Posted by madlib at 10/11/2008 @ 1:36pm
No...he us what he says he is.
Which is good cuz he's a dying breed!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 2:00pm
I wonder how much of LVLIBERTY's online persona is just a total and complete lie?
What are the odds he's 34, and living in his mom and dad's basement, playing world of warcraft?
LOL
Even better, since he seems to have so many issues with the sexuality of others, my guess is he's either a child molester, or a flaming homosexual having lots of anonymous sex in rest stops on the side of the highway.
What a disturbing person.
Posted by madlib at 10/11/2008 @ 1:36pm
I told you before, to make sure you have your mommy's permission before you start trying to interact with adults. Your juvenile mind is betraying your age once again.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 2:03pm
those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also those who approve of those who practice them. Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
So...kill all the fags and those who approve of them.
You are not a man of God. You are, in fact, one twisted piece of shit.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 2:03pm
Just minutes ago I left the home of a neighbor who has never seen eye to eye with me on much but we were friends.
Her minister and right wing Christian radio have convinced her that Barack Obama is a Muslim, that Muslims hate and wish to kill all Christians. They convinced her that Universal Health Care is a government plot that can be replaced by a coalition of Christians paying into a system like Medishare. She is also convinced that Medishare would never, ever ask what you believe so apparently they would be happy to medishare with Muslims-if and when Hell freezes over.
She is 150% pro-Palin because Christians need to have more children and hold more powerful jobs.(So much for the importance of parenting). She is lukewarm on John McCain and I suspect that if he is elected, she-and a lot of other "christians"-will endanger their immortal souls by praying he dies so Saint Sarah may rule.
I told her the people she trusts the most are lying, because they've been lied to or because they think the end justifies the means, that these lies are a matter of public record and it makes more sense to take a trip to the library than it does to be angry with me. Within a millisecond she was in my face practically shouting that she damn sure would not vote for Obama, as if I ever asked or expected that. I left and I am pretty sure I will never go back. That kind of raw hate is just not part of my world, certainly not part of my faith. I am just sick about it.
John McCain will go down in history as the man who could have led and instead chose to follow Atwater, Rove, Bush, Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, Hagee, Dobson, Falwell, Reed...corrupt, foul unrepentant liars all.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 2:04pm
I see that luvvy is still ignoring Palin's lying and abuse of power and just pointing the finger at the left and gays while he excuses everything his side does and ignores facts presented to him..
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 2:04pm
I read all 263 exhausting pages of the Branchflower report. The "First Dude " certainly is a piece of work. I wonder what the righties who objected to Hillary sitting in on meetings think about Saint Sarah's hubby setting up shop in her office.
And again, who the heck is raising those kids?
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 2:11pm
"I'm not a republican. And what does America stand for?
nationbuilding? genocide? wallstreet bailouts? environmental destruction? racial solidarity? NAFTA?"
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/11/2008 @ 12:28am
Do you really classify racial solidarity with all the rest of those things?
Apparently, you are not a republican.
Apparently, you are a racist.
Obviously, you could understand the underlying assumption that you were republican.
Thanks for setting us straght.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 10/11/2008 @ 2:14pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:35am
LL ..as you seem to think the "end of days" is nigh - have you considered Alaska? I hear they're gonna be the waiting room for that event. (And as we now have a 3rd state allowing gay marriage - the lightning bolts and earthquakes outa be starting anytime now!)
Balrog - you're on a roll today. Keep up the good work!
As to this entire thread .... all I can say is OMG - I knew the hard right were the torch and pitchfork crowd but this is getting ridiculous. "Hey Rove - be careful when you open a can of worms cause, well, there's probably worms inside!" Geez
Posted by leftofcenter at 10/11/2008 @ 2:16pm
Posted by Malcontent at 10/11/2008 @ 2:14pm
Eric, bleeding is a GOP poser. He slips up though and let's his REAL ideology slip through between the "You know, real progressives should vote for Nader!" b.s.
He'll be gone in 25 days.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 2:33pm
lefty! how odd that you should mention the wingers fleeing to Alaska. My hubby and I were just saying that unlike the poor Jews being plonked down in a desert surrounded by enemies the right wingies could all move to Alaska-a state with many natural resources and mostly mellow Canadian neighbors-thereby removing them from our sinful presence and getting them out of our hair at the same time! What a great plan!
Bad news for the true Conservatives of Alaska, but after watching them handle their own party re: Branchflower I believe maybe they could straighten their loony political cousins out.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 2:35pm
those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also those who approve of those who practice them. Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
So...kill all the fags and those who approve of them.
You are not a man of God. You are, in fact, one twisted piece of shit.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 2:03pm
The passage speaks of spiritual death, not putting Christians putting someone to death. Don't be ignorant.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 2:51pm
Liver, spiritual death is a lot more serious than physical death. That is just a terrible, ignorant defense.
I am unwilling to judge good people ill just because of thirty words or so in Leviticus and Deuteronomy...and pretty ambiguous words at that.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 3:04pm
That kind of raw hate is just not part of my world, certainly not part of my faith. I am just sick about it.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 2:04pm
Unfortunately, that kind of raw hate - by so-called "Christians" who use religion as an excuse for their most unChristian bigotry, hatred, and intolerance - IS part of our world. I am sorry you lost a friend today, but it seems to me that, because of her screaming intolerance, SHE lost YOU as a friend.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 3:05pm
Thanks Bal, the real tragedy is she has these beautiful children who will grow up believing the world would be a beautiful place if it weren't for the people who want to preserve it and make it safe for them.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 3:08pm
You leftists are really going out on a limb here with your distorted one-sided portrayal of those who dare oppose Obama.
1. You completely leave out how Obama's far left ideology and his lack of any meaningful experience explains why many people oppose him.
2. It seems that there are many unhinged, wacked out and angry elements on your side of the political fence, people who are in no way reasonable or who are willing to engage in polite discourse or who are in any way willing to accept the governance of someone they violently disagree with. Some even are at the very top of the political spectrum. Read some descriptions below:
===============
Anger on the Left *UPDATED* Apr 30 2008 at 11:12 am http://www.bookwormroom.com /2008/04/30/ anger-on-the-left/
The Left, Online and Outraged Liberal Blogger Finds an Outlet and a Community By David Finkel Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, April 15, 2006; Page A01 http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/content/article/ 2006/04/14/ AR2006041401648.html
Monday, September 01, 2008 Leftist Protesters Attack, Throw Poison & Spit On RNC Delegates!... 80 Year-Old Connecticut Delegate Injured!!! http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com /2008/09/ leftist-protesters-attack -rnc-delegates.html
Left Are Intolerant, Angry Monday, October 6, 2008 8:52 AM By: Richard Grenell http://www.newsmax.com/ politics/intolerant_angry_left/ 2008/10/06/ 137659.html?utm_medium=RSS
Leftist Protesters Curse Fox News Live on Fox News Channel, Reporter Griff Jenkins Roughed Up Sunday, August 24, 2008 | Kristinn http://www.freerepublic.com /focus/news/ 2067213/posts
Leftist Protestors Unplugged Posted in Leaning to the Right by News Busters on March 26, 2008 http://moreaboutpolitics.info /moreaboutpolitics/ ?p=7773
==================
Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 3:21pm
Liver, spiritual death is a lot more serious than physical death. That is just a terrible, ignorant defense.
I am unwilling to judge good people ill just because of thirty words or so in Leviticus and Deuteronomy...and pretty ambiguous words at that.
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 3:04pm
I never quote Leviticus or Deuteronomy on the subject of Homosexuality. there is sufficient authority in the NT.
Yes, spiritual death is more serious. All the more reason why as a Pastor I have a responsibility before G-d to encourage people to follow truth rather than the lies of this world.
As Paul notes in Colossians 1:28
"Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ"
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 3:24pm
The passage speaks of spiritual death, not putting Christians putting someone to death. Don't be ignorant.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 2:51pm
I am not going to split semantic or theologic hairs with you. I have seen you advocate death to liberals (traitors), death to gays, and death to those who approve of gays. True to form, you are trying to weasel out of it. Soon, you will squeal about how you are "persecuted" for your hate-faith.
It is people like you - not Christians, but the despicable shit weasel perverters of Christianity who use religious freedom as a shield for their prejudice and hatred - that are the real threat to this country, it's people, and their freedoms.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 3:35pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 3:24pm
Who else specifically mentioned homosexuality in the NT but Paul?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 3:41pm
there is sufficient authority in the NT Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 3:24pm
Pretty damn arrogant of you to impose your mythology on the rest of us - this is a Democracy, not a theocracy. The Constitution, not your book of fables, has authority in this country. Since you neither recognize nor respect that, you must be an America-hating traitor plotting the overthrow of our form of government.
And we all know what the penalty for treason during wartime is...
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 3:46pm
2. It seems that there are many unhinged, wacked out and angry elements on your side of the political fence, people who are in no way reasonable or who are willing to engage in polite discourse or who are in any way willing to accept the governance of someone they violently disagree with.----Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 3:21pm
You mean like THIS guy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgwiFOid0gA
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 3:54pm
I bring you my love.
Every moment I try to remember the light af an hidden report, when my memory outshines, when your love disappears....
Francesco Sinibaldi
Posted by Sinibaldi at 10/11/2008 @ 4:04pm
Lvliberty-You can't teach people to follow the truth since you don't know what it is.You should not be telling others to act like an adult since you are refusing to act like one and are ignoring facts presented to you in favor of having a FrankGrits tantrum where you damn America if they don't vote for your candidate.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 4:14pm
If it were just only to give a lesson of decency and anti-bigotry ( "Muslim, anti-Christian, Black, un-American, Mixed, Ellitist, un-Patriotic, etc, etc") to that kind of people (the booers) I would love a big victory of Obama.
We are America, this is 2008 of the Christian era. How come, are they citizens of this great nation that don't value democracy, inclusiveness and truth?
Oh Republicans, as in those Greek tragedies, the monsters you created as sons of thee, have come to devour you. And the monsters are hatred, bigotry, racism, militarism, imperialism and all of their brothers and sisters.
Posted by Frank42 at 10/11/2008 @ 4:24pm
Posted by Pogge at 10/11/2008 @ 2:04pm
Ouch! Sorry to hear it, Pogge. I had a heated response to a discussion two co-workers were having today regarding race in America. It's really discouraging that so many people have lost all empathy. I got on my soapbox and told of my grand jury experience watching the sad felonies stream by. I said there was no monopoly on stupidity, violence, or predation, at least in my county of residence, and it was a realization born of one of the ass't DA's informal comments: Youth may be wasted on the young but not stupidity, which I took to it's logical extension to mean there is more than enough stupidity to go around in ALL age (or race or class or whatever) groups. But I don't think they cared.
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 10/11/2008 @ 4:40pm
so let's see here, the united states of america is on the brink of total collapse, and there are STILL americans who support mccain, a man who has voted with president bush over 90% of the time.
Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2008 @ 5:30pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 3:24pm
Ha! There you are. Here are the questions you ignored should you care to do so once more.
1- About how long ago did the earliest human go to bad and/or good Hades? 80,000 or 4000?
2- Best estimate on whether Obama is lighter or darker skinned than Jesus (when on earth)?
3- Back to #1, do you consider any of the following relevant when deciding whether someone has had fair opportunity to decide on whether or not to be saved?
A- childhood neglect / abuse
B- closed head injury resulting in memory impairment
C- dementia?
4- If someone where saved, then kidnapped and brainwashed by a pagan cult at which point they rejected Christ, would they go to hell?
If you don't answer you're a Marxist!
Posted by winyahn at 10/11/2008 @ 5:40pm
Hello Balrog,
Up above you said:
"........ this is a Democracy, not a theocracy......"
Oh? Is that so?
In the last 7 1/2 years that seems to be one of the complaints the angry Left has made against George W. Bush.... that he is turning America into a state theocracy.
So you admit, and agree, that America is not turning into a state theocracy? That the left has been wrong about this?
Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 5:43pm
Obama's accomplishments:
General Election: McCain vs. Obama
Poll_Date_Sample_Obama (D)_McCain(R)_Spread
Newsweek 10/08 - 10/09 1035 RV 52 41 Obama +11
Hotline/FD Tracking 10/08 - 10/10 808 LV 50 40 Obama +10
Gallup Tracking 10/08 - 10/10 2773 RV 51 42 Obama +9
GW/Battleground Tracking 10/06 - 10/09 800 LV 51 43 Obama +8
Rasmussen Tracking 10/08 - 10/10 3000 LV 52 45 Obama +7
FOX News 10/08 - 10/09 900 RV 46 39 Obama +7
Time 10/03 - 10/06 1053 LV 50 44 Obama +6
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/04 - 10/05 658 RV 49 43 Obama +6
Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2008 @ 5:44pm
sjchermak-When did "the left" say that Bush was turning us into a theocracy?Many on the left believe that Bush was conning the "religious" conservatives into making them believe that he was one of them in order to get votes.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 5:52pm
Obama's accomplishments:
Association with the Stroger Machine in Cook County (Obama silent about machine corruption, machine helpful in Obama ascension to U.S. Senate)
Association with the Daley Machine in Chicago (same as above)
Connections with slumlords in Chicago, who managed apartment buildings where some residents did not even have adequate heat.
Connection with Tony Rezko
Finishing up and getting credit for legislation in the Illinois Senate that others did 90% of the work on
Association with Rev. Jeremiah Wright
Association with Bill Ayers
Opposition to the "Born Alive" bill in Illinois that would have given legal protection to babies born alive during a botched abortion.
Willingness to go talk to the president of Iran (while his country works on developing nuclear weapons to destroy Israel)
Statement in last week's debate that "tax cuts for the wealthy" take "money from the system" thus displaying complete ignorance of economics - tax cuts increase revenue, not decrease it... this is true every time taxes have been cut.. such as when President Kennedy cut taxes...... in 1988 Sen Lloyd Bentsen told Sen Dan Quayle he was "no Jack Kennedy".... same could be said of Barack Obama.
Some record, huh?
Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 6:14pm
In the last 7 1/2 years that seems to be one of the complaints the angry Left has made against George W. Bush.... that he is turning America into a state theocracy.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 5:43pm
False premise. Bush, along with many others, would LIKE TO and are in fact TRYING to turn America into a state theocracy, but thankfully, while they have made some progress, they have not succeeded.
So you admit, and agree, that America is not turning into a state theocracy?
Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2008 @ 5:43pm
I admit and agree to no such thing.
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 6:16pm
sjchermak-In the real world Obama went from a broken home,to Harvard,to being a constitutional lawyer,to a state rep.to the senate,and could be the next POTUS and did so as a half black man with a funny name.Like Bush,McCain, had and has family connections to get him where he is.. You may not like his views,but he has accomplished much with a poor beginning.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 6:26pm
sjchermak-McCain has been associated with former nazis,neo nazis,and white racist South Africans.Palin has connections to people in the AIP who wish to overthrow the US govt or,at least,become their own country.Some of those people are her friends.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 6:30pm
Oddly I see some hopeful signs in the rigidity and fanaticism of the rabid right wing. For years they have been imposing increasingly narrow tests of ideological purity; they are self-isolating and will become increasingly marginalized within the larger political discourse of the nation.
Put it terms that they will surely find detestable, but which I find amusing: They are evolving into an increasingly narrow niche of the political environment; becoming a fringe species adapted to the hateful mindset portrayed by such intellects as lvliberty. Their rage, paranoia, intolerance and hyperbole--and above all their insistence on ideological purity and conformity--will isolate them into a proto-fascist echo chamber of their own delusions.
They don't persuade; they merely declaim in simplistic and self-righteous slogans. Their idea of argument to repeat the same thing over and over and get angrier and shout louder. They must be terrified to discover that its not working anymore.
Posted by IceNine at 10/11/2008 @ 6:48pm
We will never "Win" in Afghanistan just like we will never "Win" in Iraq. There is no winning. Only losing things like American lives and American treasure (if there is any left after the cons get done) Strike that, there is none left now.
Many ignorant morons look at these insane occupations of other countries in terms of winning and losing. It is not a football game. It is a zero sum game where nobody wins but everybody loses. Except for coporations that make enormous profits playing these deadly games.
Until we wake up to the fact that the only thing that America exports anymore is Terror. Terror in the form of weapons sales and economic disater. Terror upon it's own people as well as Terror upon others. We are the Terrorists! We are the Terrorists! I had to repeat that twice.
Wake up America! Wake up America!
Posted by chaoszen at 10/11/2008 @ 8:06pm
FOX News 10/08 - 10/09 900 RV 46 39 Obama +7----Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2008 @ 5:44pm
Well, obviously "FOX News" is another Marxist liberal Media in the bag for Obama so-called news outlet that hates America and God and wants the terrorists to win!!!!!
Uh...
ooop!
(snicker)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/11/2008 @ 8:24pm
And we all know what the penalty for treason during wartime is...
Posted by Balrog at 10/11/2008 @ 3:46pm
profit?
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2008 @ 8:51pm
It is an abomination to G-d.
...blah, blah, blah...
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 11:56am
You know, Larry, your brand of hatred for those who do not worship and obey you, that hatred is the true abomination here. You and your fellow righties have supported the mass murder of 1.2 million BORN human beings, those about whom there is NO controversy over whether or not their lives have begun. And you revel in their deaths. You support a serial adulterer for president and a likely adulterer for vice president, both of whom acquiesced in their silence to a call for the assassination of their opponent. You support torture. You support the destruction of the poor for the benefit of the rich. And you have the utter arrogance to demand that you be worshipped and obeyed. That, Larry, is an abomination to all of creation.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 9:18pm
Ha! There you are. Here are the questions you ignored should you care to do so once more.
1- About how long ago did the earliest human go to bad and/or good Hades? 80,000 or 4000?
Answer-no one knows. But somewhere between 10 and 50 thousand years ago.
2- Best estimate on whether Obama is lighter or darker skinned than Jesus (when on earth)?
Answer: who cares? But as a middle eastern Jew, Jesus was of olive skinned complexion, neither black nor white.
3- Back to #1, do you consider any of the following relevant when deciding whether someone has had fair opportunity to decide on whether or not to be saved?
A- childhood neglect / abuse
B- closed head injury resulting in memory impairment
C- dementia?
Answers-A is not relevant; B&C I leave to G-d
4- If someone where saved, then kidnapped and brainwashed by a pagan cult at which point they rejected Christ, would they go to hell?
Answer-again left to G-d
If you don't answer you're a Marxist!
Posted by winyahn at 10/11/2008 @ 5:40pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 9:34pm
Sitting here this evening and mulling this over in my mind after dinner I reread this several times. I don't like going here but I feel I have to say something. These segregationist remarks start blood boiling! A lot of these folks screaming bomb, kill, terrorist, etc have a way of whipping up the fringe elements. I am 70 years old and a disabled vet, I know what I'm hearing here, As a student of history I can very well connect the dots to a certain German Leader in the 20th century who could whip up the folks.. This campaign has just gone too far in my opinion!! I am hoping with all my heart the folks especially in South Florida pay attention to the words of congressman Lewis, This whole thing borders on mass hate, I will say it now, I am wondering when the Republican Party will adopt the "Cross of Topsy Turvey" for their symbol!! I am mad as hell at the Republican Party and I am ASHAMED of saying I was in the same navy as Sen. John Mc Cain. A 20 year sailor
Posted by jetphixer at 10/11/2008 @ 9:35pm
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 9:18pm
You have some serious delusions; add your hatred of Christians and you are dangerous.
Please tell me you don't live in CA.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 9:39pm
Posted by jetphixer at 10/11/2008 @ 9:35pm
I'm sorry for what ever sources have twisted you to give you such false impressions.
I don't believe though that either of us fought and served to see socialism take over our country. That however is what we will get if Obama and the Dems take over control of the White House and Congress.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 9:53pm
lvliberty-There was nothing in his post that showed hate for Christians.Please,go to the VA and use their free psychiatric services.Just show them your posts.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 10:01pm
lvliberty-Why do you assume that someone twisted the veteran?Why do you believe that he can't think for himself?You may,now,like a coward,run from another question and post.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 10:05pm
LVL: define socialism. (Maybe it's a matter of definitions, but it seems like the socialist canard always comes out when a Dem gets close to winning the Presidency.)
Posted by yutsano at 10/11/2008 @ 10:19pm
jetphixer-I,too am a disabled veteran who wasn't going to vote since I could not get behind either candidate,but the hatred being spewed and encouraged at these rallies put me in a position where I have no choice,but to go for Obama and I'm not paranoid and not concerned that he will turn us into a socialist country.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 10:20pm
jetphixer-Let me clarify.There is nothing that says that Obama and the democrats are socialists so I'm not concerned that they will do anything,but promote America.If they don't work out then I'll check out the GOP in 2012.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 10:24pm
LVL: define socialism. (Maybe it's a matter of definitions, but it seems like the socialist canard always comes out when a Dem gets close to winning the Presidency.)
Posted by yutsano at 10/11/2008 @ 10:19pm
Let's start with Obama running for the Illinois Senate from the New Party. A party formed by a coalition of Acorn, the Democratic Socialists of America, and communist members.
Let's then go to Nationalized Health Care. Add to that, you have the Democrat plans to fund abortions.
Cong Maxine Waters calling this year for nationalizing the Oil companies during Congressional testimony.
Bush playing right along with this socialist bailout which the Democrats eargerly supported. Why? Because they believe they will be the ones to spend it and take over control of AIG, and a number of banks and investment banks.
Then you have Obama's redistribution of wealth in his supposed tax cut plan. How do you give 95% of Americans a tax cut when 40% already don't pay income taxes (according to both the IRS and the CBO)? You redistribute wealth from others with tax credits that provide additional money from the govt even if you owed no taxes.
And the list goes on and on.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 10:34pm
Will the grand ol' party ever ever extract themselves from the heartless unAmerican polluting, monopolistic, anti-trade, fake capitalists? Will we ever see a real conservative again? Nixon was way closer to this than any of these neocons! Ron Paul is the mannnn.
Posted by winyahn at 10/11/2008 @ 10:34pm
Will we ever see a real conservative again? Nixon was way closer to this than any of these neocons! Ron Paul is the mannnn.
Posted by winyahn at 10/11/2008 @ 10:34pm
Nixon was never a conservative. He fooled conservatives so they would elect him and then served as a Rockefeller liberal.
A conservative would not have implemented the EPA, OSHA, imposed wage and price controls, or gone to China. A conservative would have actually tried to win in Vietnam instead of trying to see what kind of surrender deal you can negotiate.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 10:37pm
All the folks who think Obama is a socilaist should talk to some folks on the left. They think he's a capitalist stooge who is way too moderate.
Funny how Republicans moan about socialism when it comes to health care or education, or commonsense regulation of business--but as soon as investments are threatened they're all over Government assistance.
And how come companies doing business with the Government (that is the taxpayer) tend to charge more, not less for their products and services (you could look it up, I'm not wrong here)? Seems unpatriotic to me. Just asking.
Posted by ohsotired at 10/11/2008 @ 10:42pm
To bleeding heart: hating any group of people because of the actions of a few is foolish and is an act of self-hatred. We're all human. Arabs are a diverse group of people. Kind of like Christians.
I believe in Jesus Christ, but I don't recognize the hatred and judgement shown by many who claim to love him as having anything to do with what he preached. The way I figure it if you hate, you are not a follower of Christ. And I know many disagree and think their righteous anger is Godly.
The WTC bombers' major shared characteristic was their belief in a very narrow Wahabist reading of the Koran, not their ethnicity. Logically, it might be reasonable to have feelings about Wahabism and Al Quaeda, but Arabs in general?
Posted by ohsotired at 10/11/2008 @ 11:00pm
Every four years we have to hear nonsense about socialists/Marxists.Never bought into that even in those years that I voted GOP.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/11/2008 @ 11:00pm
A conservative would not have implemented the EPA, OSHA, imposed wage and price controls, or gone to China.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 10:37pm
Are you defining a conservative as a fundamentally morally deficient human being, Larry? Because, when dealing with the rape of the planet and the imposition of substandard working conditions, a refusal to act when one can do something is utterly immoral. And, what a surprise, Larry - you, to this day, feel that not enough blood was spilled in Nam. A couple of million deaths not enough for you, Larry? Whom would Jesus napalm, Larry? Whose village would Jesus destroy in order to save it, Larry? I have to say that, with all the trolls that come out to play here, you may well be the most amoral and immoral. Most of your murderous rants remind me of a line from Dylan's "Masters of War" that could well be applied to you and your ilk - "Even Jesus would never forgive what you do".
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 11:18pm
It seems to me, that McCain can possibly salvage his honor and be a true Maverick (what ever that really is or means or belongs in a campaign) if they take down all the ads with terrorists implications and announces he fired the campaign manager who suggested this road (hopefully it isn't his VP selection but wouldn't care or be surprised) and says he would like to focus on the issues and people of America and that would bring back his base and his party. He could even shock everyone further by saying Mrs Palin has stepped down and he hopes that Liberman accepts as VP. Now, That might give him a shot at the whitehouse not necessarily my vote but just pointing out how I could run a campaign. What do you think? Because whoever is running his campaign is STUPID. Hence, look at who is in office now. What do you think?
Posted by psahome at 10/11/2008 @ 11:22pm
More Dylan:
The king of the philistines his soldiers to save Puts jawbones on their tombstones and flatters their graves, Puts the pied pipers in prison and fattens the slaves Then sends them out to the jungle.
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 10/11/2008 @ 11:30pm
<i>Posted by ohsotired at 10/11/2008 @ 11:00pm </i>
Hear hear.
Posted by Thrawn at 10/11/2008 @ 11:35pm
Posted by psahome at 10/11/2008 @ 11:22pm
Unfortunately, psa, you can't salvage what you never had. All McCain can try to do is to salvage the myth of his honor. If he had any honor, after implicitly calling for the assassination of his opponent, he'd withdraw and take Palin and the rest of the slimeballs with whom he's been "palling around" with him. But Johnny Mac has no honor, no courage, and no decency. And this campaign has provided immense proof of that.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 11:43pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 9:39pm
Really, Larry? Delusions? About what? I'm expressing the gist of your positions, Larry, over a pretty long period of time. And, no, Larry, I don't hate Christians or even dislike them. In fact, a lot of people I know are the real genuine article Christians - they walk the walk, Larry. They don't glory in the deaths of millions. Or in the further crushing of the poor. You whine that anyone who doesn't buy your modern-day Sadducee bullshit hates Christians, yet you couldn't give a rat's ass about anything ever uttered by Jesus of Nazareth. What is it, a way for you to earn a living? An ego rush? A method by which you can convince yourself that you exercise power and control over others? Because it sure isn't any basis on which you live your life. You worship death, and are delusional enough to see yourself as one to be obeyed, and you are precisely the sort of whitened sepulchre about whom Jesus spoke. And I have no doubt, Larry, that, were he alive today, you would do all you could to see him executed.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/11/2008 @ 11:59pm
Hello jmusolino,
You put your foot in your mouth big time with your statement above:
".............But Johnny Mac has no honor, no courage, and no decency................"
Read the following book:
Faith of My Fathers, by John McCain with Mark Salter, ISBN 978-1-4000-6792-3
John McCain has exhibited all three of those - over and over again. Read that book and open your mind.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/12/2008 @ 12:17am
sjchermak-What McCain showed many years ago is irrelevant to what he is showing now.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/12/2008 @ 12:24am
Hello i'm nobody,
Regarding Barack Obama, you said ".......You may not like his views,but he has accomplished much with a poor beginning......"
Enlighten us. What would those accomplishments be?
I listed some of his accomplishments above. Do you have more to add to THAT list? Those are the only things Senator Obama seems to have ever accomplished.
Obama started out as a "Soldier for Stroger". That is the beginning voters need to concern themselves with when they make their choice November 4.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/12/2008 @ 12:29am
sjchermak-I gave you a list of his accomplishments,but all you posted was right wing talking points that was quite irrelevant to the subject of accomplishments.Go back and read what he accomplished from my short list and then do some more research and learn something rather than just repeating talking points.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/12/2008 @ 12:35am
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/11/2008 @ 10:37pm
Wrong. Conservative = conserve blood and treasure, incl our natural resources, air, water - environmental protection.
Posted by winyahn at 10/12/2008 @ 12:36am
winyahn-Any time a conservative screws up,like Nixon,luvvy claims that they don't count as being a conservative and refers to them as a liberal.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/12/2008 @ 12:39am
Posted by sjchermak at 10/12/2008 @ 12:17am
Which parts, sj? The parts in which he admits that 70 years ago, his rages were so severe that he threw tantrums in which he'd hold his breath until he passed out? The parts in which this so-called man of honor, courage and decency serially screwed around on his first wife after she had an horrendous accident requiring multiple surgeries? The parts in which he dumped her for a sugar mommy in her 20s with the added benefit of $100 million? And of course, he doesn't mention the bit about calling his current wife a c**t in front of 3 reporters and a couple of his staffers, does he? How about his utterly asshole behavior to staffers, colleagues, and anyone else that remotely disturbs him? The fact that, like Bush, he was a legacy admission to a prestigious school, in which, again like Bush, he was an utter screw-up? The fact that, like Bush, he has spent a lifetime in the narcissistic view that rules are for everyone but him? Why don't you read Cliff Schechter's book "The Real McCain", or the recent Rolling Stone piece on McCain and open your own mind a bit. And, sj,like it or not, McCain's campaign, as I said earlier, proves him to be utterly lacking in honor,