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Palin's pastor, Larry Kroon, warns God "is gonna strike out his hand against" America
On July 20, 2008, the pastor of Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin's home church, Larry Kroon, delivered a sermon called "Sin Is Personal To God." Kroon, the senior pastor of the non-denominational Wasilla Bible Church in Wasilla, Alaska, used the book of Zephaniah as his reference point for discussing "that great day of the Lord, when God will finally bring closure to human history... a day of wrath." According to Kroon, "all things and all people" are going to bear the brunt of God's "intense anger." "There's anger with God," he proclaimed. "He takes sin personal."
Kroon placed Zephaniah in a modern context, warning that the sinful habits of Americans would invite the wrath of God. "And if Zephaniah were here today," Kroon bellowed, "he'd be saying, ‘Listen, [God] is gonna deal with all the inhabitants of the earth. He is gonna strike out His hand against, yes, Wasilla; and Alaska; and the United States of America. There's no exceptions here -- there's none. It's all.'"
(Kroon's sermon can be heard here; a full transcript is here.)
While Kroon has cautioned his parishioners against the mass marketed End Times prophecies of Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye, he has nonetheless invoked doomsday scenarios that mirror those on the pages of Lindsey and LaHaye's bestselling tracts.
"It's so very possible that God, instead of responding by granting spiritual renewal and sustained prosperity," Kroon said in a sermon on July 13, 2008, "could just as easily...it's conceivable that He could just as easily, for example, raise up a revived, prosperous and powerful Communist Russia with a web of alliances across the Middle East. And our gas pumps would go dry. The dollar would collapse. And the markets would crash. The kayak could go upside down. And it could happen in a matter of weeks. That could happen. It could happen by this fall."
Palin joined Wasilla Bible Church after leaving Wasilla Assembly of God, a Pentecostal church where she delivered a controversial sermon asking her audience to pray that the war in Iraq is "God's plan." When she is working in Alaska's capitol, she worships at the Juneau Christian Center, another Pentecostal church where charismatic displays like speaking in tongues and dancing in the spirit are encouraged. Palin describes herself as a "Bible-believing Christian."
Palin's presence at Wasilla Bible Church has not been confirmed for the days Kroon warned of God "striking out his hand against... the United States of America" and "rais[ing] up" an alliance of nations to ruin America.
Posted by pontificus at 09/05/2008 @ 9:25pm
Why not, PONTI?
What EXACTLY is the difference?
Except he's a white guy End Timer who YOUR candidate might have had some contact with?
BTW, he didn't even mention Ed Kalinin and what he thought a qualifier for getting into Heaven was....i.e. NOT supporting John Kerry!
Just add it to the pile-
www.thedailyshow.com and Search "Palin Gender Card"
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 9:44pm
pontificus, How do you know what was said in Palin's presence? Maybe what she heard is worse than anything Obama ever heard. The difference might just be that it was said by a white evangelical pastor rather than a scary black pastor. But what I find a bit scarier is what Palin herself said. She thinks Iraq is God's plan. I think it's man's screw up. I find it scary when we kill innocent civilians, and say it is God's plan.
BTW, isn't this pastor warning us that the "Chickens are going to come home to roost". Sounds like it to me.
Posted by loria at 09/05/2008 @ 9:45pm
Sorry, here ya go
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 9:45pm
OF COURSE!
she's a christofascist!!!!!!
of course her pastor believes in cult like fantasy scenarios which conveniently strike down all their political and worldly opponants...its what they believe!!!
many beleive the world was created 6000 years ago in 6 days (ooooh! thats kinda kreepy! all i need is one more nebulous six and....) and dont want little girls to get the genital warts vaccine or non abstinance only sex ed because they'd rather their daughters get genital warts and preggers than consider a little controlled sin...
oh yes - listen to about any average christofascist preacher man and you got a reverend wright on the right BINGO!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/05/2008 @ 9:57pm
it's conceivable that He could just as easily, for example, raise up a revived, prosperous and powerful Communist Russia with a web of alliances across the Middle East.
•••• well that is happening sort of. but history has also shown a kind of antirussian sentiment there as well.
And our gas pumps would go dry.
•••• does god hate canada?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:06pm
I was just going to question whether this would get the same level of coverage as Reverend Wright, but Pontificus has already explained that it's totally different. Apples and oranges or, rather, black and white...
Posted by Be Good at 09/05/2008 @ 10:12pm
And our gas pumps would go dry.
BUT WAIT!
THERE'S ENOUGH OIL IN ALASKA TO MAKE AMERICA <B>ENERGY INDEPENDENT</B>
¿¿¿¿¿¿¿RIGHT????????
if god loves christians so much, why did it put all the oil under them people?
THE SUN. IT'S HOT.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:12pm
Good Lord, what the heck is God doing on the political trail?
Posted by midnight04 at 09/05/2008 @ 10:12pm
2 "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD.
3 "I will sweep away both men and animals;
I will sweep away the birds of the air
and the fish of the sea.
The wicked will have only heaps of rubble
when I cut off man from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
<<<<<>>>>>
holy moose patty, HUMANS ARE GOD.
<<<<<>>>>>
hey god, sell the suv. don't eat beef.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:14pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:06pm
Pinko atheists every one of 'yuns...
but thanks again for Elisha Cuthbert, Cobie Smulders, and Evangeline Lilly!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:15pm
Can we get back to issues yet?
Posted by Zero at 09/05/2008 @ 10:11pm
alas........
CLIMATE CHANGE: Arctic Meltdown Signals Long-Term Trend
By Stephen Leahy
Satellite image of Ellesmere Island in 2006.
Credit:NASA
UXBRIDGE, Canada , Sep 5 (IPS) - Soaring temperatures have led to the collapse of several huge ice shelves in the Canadian Arctic over the past few weeks.
One 50 sq km ice shelf on the northern coast of Canada's Ellesmere Island simply "vanished" over three days, exposing a coast that lay buried under ice for at least 4,000 years.
At the same time, the Arctic's thick, year-round sea ice cover has declined to near the 2007 record of 2.6 million square kilometres less ice than the summer average minimum. This year's ice loss is still huge -- an area that's far larger than the states of Alaska and Texas combined.
"My gut feeling is that the sea ice decline won't beat last year's record," said Walter Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Centre at the University of Colorado in Boulder.
This year's sea ice decline is expected to reach its peak in the next few days. "The (2008) decline is already the second largest loss of summer ice on record even though the weather was not as warm as last year," Meier told IPS.
What's significant about this year's is that it means the long-term trend of ice loss is going down much faster than expected, he said.
A summer with an ice-free Arctic is now "inevitable" and less than two decades away, Meier estimates. That doesn't mean there won't be any ice -- on the contrary, the Arctic Ocean will be like shattered crystal on a slate floor, covered by uncountable sharp-edged icebergs and chunks of ice floating around waiting for ships or oil rigs to bump into.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:18pm
that's it!
god's gonna melt us to hell.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:18pm
BTW, the way "it's totally different" to guys like PONTI (or inevitably LVLIB of course) is...
it's "okay" if some wacko preacher (white of course) says that America is "sinful" and "God will punish us"...
for the stuff that the Religious RIGHT thinks is sinful.
Not racism or poverty....but gays being treated as citizens or women not having to go to back alley abortion clinics.
That's fine....but let some inner city black preacher say the EXACT SAME THING and say the sin is something the Right considers "no big deal anymore"...
and it's "dangerous"!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:32pm
Anyone who goes to church, and who is an `average' Christian, have heard pastors or guests deliver sermons that, shall we say, are a bit off the wall and more suitable for an outdoor tent revival.------Posted by 2HAPPY at 09/05/2008 @ 10:41pm
Okay, research time....FROSTY please find all HAPPY posts on Jeremiah Wright and compare.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:45pm
Lets look at the bright side. The Lord's melting the Arctic, but he's spared the United States of America! As for the polar bears,they can get used to eatin' barracuda!
Posted by Sorelish at 09/05/2008 @ 10:49pm
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/05/2008 @ 10:48pm
Including Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, RIO?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:52pm
but thanks again for Elisha Cuthbert, Cobie Smulders, and Evangeline Lilly!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:15pm
and potash, too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:54pm
BTW, I think it's now official...
Sarah Palin has destroyed every right-wing smear against Barack Obama...
"Reverand Wright"?...."Rev. Larry Kroon" and "Rev. Ed Kalinin".
"Bill Ayers, Weather Underground"?...."Alaskan secessionists".
"No experience"?.....ditto.
"Drug use"?.....ditto.
Plus no social conservative can ever push for abstinence-only sex education....without the picture of Sarah holding her grand-baby in a few months being shown to them!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:56pm
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Stocks rallied Monday, with the Dow closing at an all-time high on bets that the big banks are starting to put the worst behind them - AND ON HOPES THAT THE FEDERAL RESERVE WILL CONTINUE CUTTING INTEREST RATES********.
The Dow Jones industrial average (Charts) added nearly 192 points to end at an all-time high of 14,087.55. Earlier in the session, the Dow had hit 14,115.27, a new record intraday high. The previous intraday high was 14,021.95 from July 19.
The tech-fueled Nasdaq composite (Charts) gained 1.5 percent and carved out a new 2007 record, closing at its highest point since Feb. 2001.
The broader S&P 500 (Charts) index climbed 1.3 percent. The Russell 2000 (Charts) small-cap index jumped 2.4 percent....
Posted by Happy at 10/01/2007 @ 5:12pm
********* of course they will. there's an election coming AND THE REPUBLICAN'TS ARE IN POWER.
we'll see what they do in january.
we'll see what they do in january.
we'll see what they do in january.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 11:04pm
From The Times
September 5, 2008
DOW PLUNGES AFTER WARNING OF 'FINANCIAL TSUNAMI'
Tom Bawden in New York
Weary investors in the United States received a further pummelling yesterday as data showed new unemployment claims at a near-five-year high last week, a leading fund manager gave warning that America faced a "financial tsunami" and key retailers released disappointing sales figures.
The mounting nervousness about America's economy dragged down shares. The Dow Jones industrial average fell 344.60 points, or 3 per cent, to 11,188.20, and the S&P 500 closed down by 38.20 points, or 3.3 per cent, at 1,236.80 points.
The Labour Department reported that the number of Americans claiming unemployment benefits for the first time rose by 15,000 to 444,000 in the week to August 30. The disappointing figures came after companies cut staff in the face of a weakening global economy and contrasted with a consensus forecast that new jobless claims would fall to 420,000.
The data, combined with a call by the manager of the world's biggest bond fund for the Government to inject more money into the banking system, spooked US investors already jittery about the outlook for the global economy. Bill Gross, co-chief investment officer of Pimco, said that the US was confronted by "systematic debt liquidation". He added: "Unchecked, it can turn a campfire into a forest fire, a mild asset bear market into a destructive financial tsunami."
Mr Gross said: "If we are to prevent a continuing asset and debt liquidation of near-historic proportions, we will require policies that open up the balance sheet of the US Treasury."
<<<<<<>>>>>>
THE BUBBLES BEEN INFLATED.
UH OH. IT JUST MAY BURST BEFORE NOVEMBER..........
THESE PEOPLE KNOW A RATE HIKE IS INEVITABLE.
THE PARTY'S OVER.........
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 11:06pm
As for the polar bears,they can get used to eatin' barracuda!
Posted by Sorelish at 09/05/2008 @ 10:49pm
Okay, I know it's not funny, but that was funny.
LOL!!
Posted by Benchrest at 09/05/2008 @ 11:19pm
mask.
check here:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaign
matters/298820/the_wright_stuff
only because i feel like watching a duel :={
i agree with zero.
FACTS - TRUTH '08
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 11:30pm
1) Palin never said the war in Iraq is a mission of God. She prayed that it would be a mission from God, i.e. that we would be acting in God's will. No Christian I know would support a war without such prayer.
2) Unlike the black nationalist-ultraracist Wright, pastor Kroon is admonishing, not just America, but all peoples of this earth, to turn from their godless evil and seek God. Wright actually demanded that God damn America -- that's a big difference. In addition,Wright has also stated, not once but many times, that he would never worship a god that did not hate white people. Sounds like ablack version of the KKK, huh?
3) The parallels between the Obamessiah and Hitler become more startling every day ---- Obama was rejected by his father, Obama has worshipped at the feet of racist rabblerousers and radicals just like the young Hitler in Vienna, he has spoken to throngs of worshipful Germans, and he has used street thugs at his opponents' political conventions, a la Hitler's Brownshirts. Obama has even said he will create a civilian "security" force as powerful as the military, not unlike Adolf's SS.
There has never been a more dangerously anti-American demagogue this close to seizing power.
Thank God for McCain and the Sarah-Cuda!
Posted by barryj35967 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:33pm
Lets look at the bright side. The Lord's melting the Arctic, but he's spared the United States of America! As for the polar bears,they can get used to eatin' barracuda!
Posted by Sorelish at 09/05/2008 @ 10:49pm
Pacific species set to invade warmer Arctic, Atlantic water
Randy Boswell, Canwest News Service
Published: Friday, August 08, 2008
A new United States study says Canada should brace for an invasion of Pacific Ocean species along its Arctic and Atlantic coasts as warmer waters and ice-free conditions continue to transform the polar region and reopen a migration route for sea creatures that has been closed for more than three million years.
Just as last year's record melt along the Northwest Passage stoked renewed interest in trans-Arctic shipping, marine animals in the North Pacific are likely to begin moving into and across the unlocked Arctic Ocean to the North Atlantic, say University of California marine ecologist Geerat Vermeij and California Academy of Sciences paleontologist Peter Roopnarine in an article to be published today in the magazine Science.
The study, titled The Coming Arctic Invasion, says that, along with the "poleward expansion" of some southern species -- highlighted recently in Canada by reports of grizzly bears encroaching on polar bear habitat -- "an even more dramatic inter-oceanic invasion will ensue in the Arctic: North Pacific lineages will resume spreading through the Bering Strait into a warmer Arctic Ocean and eventually into the temperate North Atlantic."
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 11:34pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/05/2008 @ 9:25pm
Oh, I see Ponti. It's okay for reverend right wing to say that God is going to drop the sledge hammer on everyone for not voting republican, but if a black minister says that Americans are damned for looking the other way at poverty, it's an abomination?! Nice slight of hand, but it doesn't work.
People saying that God is going to do something one way or the other are full of crap and their own agenda. Are you now trying to tell us that God is an American evangelical southern baptist republican? Who knew that Jesus reasoned exactly the same as southern baptist evangelicals? I always thought he was Jewish and was outcast for not following that religion properly enough. Go figure.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:44pm
does god hate canada?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:06pm Hell yes Frosty. You Canadians dominate the NHL...an American Sport...you, you Canadians aren't Americans...well, you are North Americans, but your Canadians. Please pass the oil!!!!
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:47pm
I don't get it. At the end of the day, she's just a VP candidate. Can we get back to issues yet?
Posted by Zero at 09/05/2008 @ 10:11pm
Good point Zero. Economy, gas prices, health care, Iraq, Afghanistan, now Georgia, Pakistan, the banking industry deregulation, the energy industry deregulation, home value deflation, the wealthy getting wealthier while everyone else gets poorer....no, let's talk about Palin's love for the great outdoors. It's by far more important.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:51pm
Hello Zero,
About what you said above:
------- " I don't understand why in particular "progressive"- aligned media is just so fixated on her. Yes, she has a strong persona, and respectable narrative in the sense that she's personally quite accomplished, having gone from nowhere to somewhere quite fast. But there seems to be something deeper going on, something incomprehensible to me, in the way that, for example Huffington Post is now Sarah Palin News" -------
What is going on, Zero, is that when Sarah Palin was added to the ticket last Friday, the left knew at that point they had lost the Presidential election for 2008.
They know it, they can not stand it, and it is driving them nuts. What you see now is the left just thrashing about, and this will continue until the left wears themselves out.
You think it is excessive now? Just wait until the vice-presidential debate, when Vice President-elect Palin mops the floor with Joe Biden. The left is expecting somewhat the opposite, that Biden would normally have the upper hand and make mincemeat of her but will have to hold back lest he be accused of being mean.
But the left and Joe Biden himself will be flummoxed as the debate unfolds. I can only imagine what all the articles and blog postings will be like here on The Nation the day after the debate.
Anyway, that is my opinion, and Maskdelta, Malcontent, srjenkins, Frosty Zoom, crabwalk, Lillian, et.al will now be posting in saying I am ignorant and haven't provided facts and I am not engaging in meaningful dialogue and reasoned intellectual debate that takes into account and analyzes the opposite viewpoint, etc. etc, blah blah blah.
Look below for that, but in the meantime I wanted to tell you why the left is so spun up on this.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
A summer with an ice-free Arctic is now "inevitable" and less than two decades away, Meier estimates. That doesn't mean there won't be any ice -- on the contrary, the Arctic Ocean will be like shattered crystal on a slate floor, covered by uncountable sharp-edged icebergs and chunks of ice floating around waiting for ships or oil rigs to bump into.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/05/2008 @ 10:18pm
Tisk, Tisk Frosty...that's just those libral scientist coming forth with their hogwash science. Now, if you want to see real science, open the old testament to page........
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
MAX, for your own good, sit through a sampling of sermons....your pink slips are showing...hehehehe!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 09/05/2008 @ 10:41pm
Once again happy, go blow yourself. You'll do yourself and the rest of us a favor.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:58pm
I can hear the creationists now. "If there's such a thing as evolution, them marine mammals & furry critters can sprout gills". And since the earth is 6,000 years old, it shoulda happened by now! Proof positive that Evolution doesn't exist. The marriage of science & creationism.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/06/2008 @ 12:02am
Plus no social conservative can ever push for abstinence-only sex education....without the picture of Sarah holding her grand-baby in a few months being shown to them!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:56pm
Mask, You may have hit on something. Perhaps McCain isn't as stupid as we thought. What if, and this a long shot, but what if McCain is pissed off about all the crap they pulled off on him when he was running against W., and he's thinking it's payback time for the GOP?! If that's what he's up to, I'll join Frank in saying that McCain is a far better man than I though. Like I said though, a long shot.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:02am
just imagine the "debates"........
ON FOX.
So, GOVERNOR PALIN, Tell us how your intimate personal relationship with Jesus Christ makes you the perfect candidate for presi, uh, vice president?
.......................
Turning to you MISTER BIDEN. Tell us how your administration will capitulate to the terrorists who want to eat our children.
.......................
Now, let's look at the economy. GOVERNOR PALIN, Tell us how living the life of a hard-working mother of five wonderful, non-aborted children has prepared you to feel the pain of Mrs. Middleamerica?
.......................
MISTER BIDEN, Please give us a detailed policy analysis of how you will raise taxes on Mrs. Middleamerica in order to fund worthless attempts at socialism?
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:05am
Also, on InstaTrade, the Irish betting outfit, McCain's chances to win the WH took a large jump, maybe the largest one-day jump since it was Obama vs. McCain, up almost 3% to 42~43%. Very tempting!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 09/05/2008 @ 11:21pm
How much Guiness Stout, Murphy's and Irish Wiskey were on sale?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:05am
Look below for that, but in the meantime I wanted to tell you why the left is so spun up on this.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
actually, i think it's because they don't won't to see their beautiful country ruined further.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:07am
"...is that when Sarah Palin was added to the ticket last Friday, the left knew at that point they had lost the Presidential election for 2008. "
Posted by sjchermak at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
You cannot know this for certain.
No one has a crystal ball, no man knows the future.
Think of last years Superbowl, and the old saying....
"That's why we play the game."
Posted by Benchrest at 09/06/2008 @ 12:09am
Now, if you want to see real science, open the old testament to page........
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm
"Take wheat and barley, beans and lentils, millet and spelt; put them in a storage jar and use them to make bread for yourself."
who knew? god's a cook.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:17am
Think of last years Superbowl, and the old saying.... "That's why we play the game."
Posted by Benchrest at 09/06/2008 @ 12:09am
i knew the giants would win.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:19am
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:05am
Good stuff Frosty, and I fear that you have nailed the direction of the "debates". Here's a few more.
Governor Palin, Do you believe that American children should say the pledge of allegiance to the flag before school every morning? If yes, then why?
Yo Biden, Mrs Palin has served in a state next to a hostile nation and her state was never forcefully taken over. Have you ever accomplished such a feat? If not, why?
Governor Palin, You stand the chance of being the first female vice president of the United States of America. What do you say to the women of this great country?
Mr Biden, You come from an Irish background do you not sir? If so, how can you belong to a party that believes in offering women choice when it comes to the direct murder of unborn infants?
Governor Palin, While you were hunting in Alaska, did you ever accidentally shoot someone (besides an animal...ha ha ha) with your hand guns or rifles? Do you think every American should have the right to own hardware to hunt and protect their families against all enemies foreign and domestic?
Sen, I mean Mister Biden, Your family was killed in a car wreck, and yet you went ahead and fullfilled your office as a senator. Why? Didn't you feel any remorse at the deaths of your loved ones?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:20am
i knew the giants would win.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:19am
Whyy the hell didn't you tell the rest of us. I figured that the Pats had the Giants playbook recorded from their hidden cameras. I would like to note that every high school team in the United States does the same thing, but I guess if you win too many times, they have to bring you down one way or the other. That being said, the Manning brothers kick ass.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:25am
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 ..the mother of five wonderful, non-aborted children
That's Alaska for ya -A sportsman's paradise! Keepers, one & all.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/06/2008 @ 12:28am
On second thought. my apologies for that last one. Very bad taste.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/06/2008 @ 12:31am
I figured that the Pats had the Giants playbook recorded from their hidden cameras.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:25am
karma had them doomed.
(plus, the giants had almost pulled it off in the final game of the regular season: pats 38 giants 35.)
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 12:49am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/06/2008 @ 12:40am |
Dipshit boy, Your party is the one against all abortions, gay people, and people having children out of wedlock. You'd better search harder. The dems won't lose votes on that crap you idiot. That's your ballpark where your people lose votes.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:53am
Posted by barryj35967 at 09/05/2008 @ 11:33pm
Let's see, where to begin:
1) From the AP - ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin told ministry students at her former church that the United States sent troops to fight in the Iraq war on a "task that is from God."
In an address last June, the Republican vice presidential candidate also urged ministry students to pray for a plan to build a $30 billion natural gas pipeline in the state, calling it "God's will."
Palin asked the students to pray for the troops in Iraq, and noted that her eldest son, Track, was expected to be deployed there.
"Our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," she said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."
2) McCain actively sought the endorsement of John Hagee and Rod Parsley, as well as the other Dominionsits whom he once called "agents of intolerance". Palin is a Dominionist who would toss the Constitution in the trash, so that people would be forced to worship her...excuse me, her version of God. On second thought, don't excuse me - Dominionists absolutely demand that the rest of us worship and obey them.
3) Parallels between the Obam and Hitler? You must be joking. Your own Fuhrer Bush's grandfather helped bankroll the Nazis. Bush, Cheney, McCain, Palin, and most of the GOP are fascists. Corporatists. Sorry, pal, the Hitler analogies reside entirely on your side of the political spectrum. Your side has for years betrayed American ideals, the Constitution, freedom, decency. The anti-Americans are you and your ilk.
Posted by jmusolino at 09/06/2008 @ 12:54am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/06/2008 @ 12:50am Go post where someone will believe your crap Red.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 12:54am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/06/2008 @ 12:50am
Awwww, poor Rio not so Bravo from days gone by! The author of posts that were nothing but ad hominem attacks, and now he whines about people picking on the poor right wingers. Considering what can actually be said about the cowards, thieves, and traitors who've sold this country out to the corporations, the Saudis, the Chines, and everyone who would further enrich them, I'd say the right wing has been treated in a far kinder manner than they actually deserve.
Posted by jmusolino at 09/06/2008 @ 12:59am
Posted by jmusolino at 09/06/2008 @ 12:54am
Well done.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 01:13am
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:32pm
The problem with you mask, as an unreconstructed old atheist, who is one of another class of weirdos who believes Jesus never existed, is that you fail to recognise that ultimate judgment aka "The day of the Lord" (the great cosmic assize if you like), is rumbling away all the time in the Old as well as the NT. Don't know if you know this but the Christian church, what ever it calls itself or where ever it is found bases it doctrines on those two books. Let me help you. Here is the Nicene Creed, which may be new to you:
The Nicene Creed is an ecumenical CHRISTIAN statement of faith accepted universally in the Christian churches, RC, Protestant and Orthodox. Here is the relevant bit that makes that Palin pastor "mainstream orthodox" and sound as a bell:
We believe in one God…….. And in one Lord Jesus Christ….. And he shall come again with glory to JUDGE (emphasis mine) both the quick and the dead, …..
Now I notice there are about 230 to 250 million Christians in the US which makes yours the most Christian nation on earth in front of Brazil with about 140 million of those "weirdos". So Mask you are certainly doing Obama's cause a lot of good rubbishing the official doctrine of about 80% of the voting public. But wait there is more.
Here's what Obama believes (given he is not a hypocrite):
United Church of Christ
Statement of Faith
He (God, in case you were thinking Obama) judges men and nations by his righteous will declared through prophets and apostles.
Now you are sure to lose your position as an Obama cheerleader if we dob you into his headquarters, not only for insulting lovely Christians (who vote) but also for heresy. He doesn't like trouble makers as you may have noticed and he believes in judgment.
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/06/2008 @ 01:41am
Now nothing was said about the Carter and Clinton administrations so lets leave them out of this!
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/06/2008 @ 01:27am
Jimmy Carter was many things but you can't call the guy a coward, unlike der fuher W. Carter did his time in the Navy. As an ex-president, he's gone to hostile countries in attempts to try to make sure fair elections take place which none of our other ex-presidents have done and we won't mention habitat for humanity. What's Bush Senior been up too?
Then there's Bill Clinton. I don't know, maybe he's a coward in your book. Why don't you call him up to see if he'll fight you. If he's not a taker, you win, your the tough guy of the school yard. Still doesn't prove much now does it.
Bill Clinton was a republican lite president. He passed NAFTA which was a rethug thing. He passed welfare reform which was a rethug thing. He didn't do much else besides tax across the board and the economy did a hell of a lot better under his helm the W's. So, I'm giving ground that a conservative democrat or liberal republican didn't do a half bad job as president. YOu idiots couldn't get him out of office fast enough. Why, because he wasn't your boy. It didn't matter that he was on your side 85% of the time. Your party is like a bunch of spoiled children who won't play unless everything goes exactly their way.
Grow up asshole.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 01:53am
The one-time energy boost was proposed by Gov. Sarah Palin in May and approved by state lawmakers last month.
Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/06/2008 @ 01:39am
That's complete crap. Alaska has had that program a very long time dating back to at least the 80's and probably longer than that. Palin had nothing to do with that. Get a clue.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/06/2008 @ 01:57am
for hsubfools:
the ultimately pollwonk site:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 02:39am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/05/2008 @ 11:56pm |
SJ, what is it about Palin that gets you so excited?
What do you really know about her?
What is her position on Georgia/Russia? How would she deal with Taiwan/China? Does she know the difference between Shia/Sunni/Pashtun/Tajik? How do the goals of these groups effect the long term plans of our military?
What has she said in the past about monetary policy? Does she support the guvt bailout of Freddie Mac? Has she or MCCain even mentioned the economy in any of their recent speeches?
What major legislation has she passed and implemented? What makes her ready to be CIC, her command of the AK NAtional Guard or her neighborliness with Russia?
You guys got all worked up over a nothing issue, Rev Wright. Now, like every other Palin flip flop (experience, Family Values except hers,) HER pastor is off limits?
Like the other sheep, we can see RIOKORESH adopting the "media is out to get Palin" cry, because they are doing their jobs and trying to dig up information on who she is, what she has done. YOU guys made pastors in play, YOU guys made her family in play. Now you want to whine bout how hard the media is on the Tough Girl? Waaaahhaa, wahhh.
The pick of Palin has turned the cons into the laughing stock of the World. Everything you attacked Obama for has been shown to be just so much smoke and mirrors. Now you don't want those same criteria used on your neophyte Bible thumping Anti-American nobody.
I think the posts above mocking the VP debates will not be far from the truth. When it comes to recent GOP picks, low expectations has been the mantra.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/06/2008 @ 06:41am
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 9:44pm
"Why not, PONTI?
What EXACTLY is the difference?"
MASK, do you know what the term 'willful ignorance' means? I ask this because the term seems to apply to pretty much any information processing of yours that has to do with politics.
The difference is, you see, that God is a supernatural being. Telling people that God is going to punish you for your sinful ways has been practiced by every preacher since time immemorial.
In contrast, telling people that the government, which consists of people, who are NOT supernatural, is out to kill you, is a different thing. This tells people that they need not take responsibility for themselves, because the government has launched a comprehensive conspiracy to either kill them, or at the least keep them from succeeding at anything. At the same time, telling them to sing 'God Damn America' preaches mindless hate. All this adds up to is an excuse for irresponsible behavior and the breeding of hatred in its purest form. It is hate speech in its purest form, and Obama has condoned it for 20 years. And this is the guy you support.
Of course, anyone rational would know this difference, but clearly, when it comes to politics, or any type of moral judgment for that matter, your partisanship overrides any sensiblities you might have.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 06:50am
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 9:44pm
Oh, and by the way, MASK? Obama's spiritual mentor for the last 20 years appears to be insane. Or maybe you think the government REALLY DID create AIDS and drugs to kill black people. In which case, I suggest you check yourself into the nearest mental health facility.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 06:53am
I mean jeeeezzzuss! Now RIOKORESH is HAPPY that his girl taxed oil companies (!)and instead of using that revenue to fix infrastructure she gave it back to people (socialism) and then went to the federal congress and got RIO's money from Texas to help build roads for the oil companies. AK gets as many or more earmarks per capita than most other states.
flip, flop, fippity floppity, da flip and da flop, hip hop dippity dop.
LOOK WHAT A FINE FAMILY SHE HAS (family is off limits)
LOOK! SHE IS A FINE CHRISTIAN (pastors words are off limits or mean something other than what he said)
WE NEED EXPERIENCE! (mayor of wasilla, appointed to the oil board with zero experience on energy issues, got 114,697 votes to be governor, been out of America once)
THE LEFT HATES AMERICA! (secession is different than hating, also see above pastors comments)
WE ARE ON A MORAL CRUSADE! ( pregnant teen daughter, McCain courted Cindy while still married)
WE ARE FOR CLEAN COAL AND RENEWABLE ENERGY (As governor, Palin vetoed wind power and clean coal projects, including a 50-megawatt wind farm on Fire Island and a clean coal facility in Healy)
Posted by crabwalk at 09/06/2008 @ 06:59am
I see Ponti...
God "damning" America...
is different than
God "punishing" America.
Got it.
Hey, do you know what Oct 13 is? It's coming up...
oooh, before we forget.., Sandy berger...SLAVES!!...peanut Carter....
Posted by crabwalk at 09/06/2008 @ 07:03am
and secessionism is just another form of love of country.
Got it
See ya, off to work.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/06/2008 @ 07:05am
"What's Bush Senior been up too?"
Well, soon after he was defeated by Bill Clinton, Bush Sr "earned"a $5 million fee plus another million in expenses for himself & entourage, all for the hard work of attending a Moonie mass wedding in Japan as "honorable guest."
Otherwise Poppy is making tens of millions with his cronies selling arms to Saudi Arabia (home of all but one of the 9/11 perps).
The Bush family has a long history of growing rich on perps.
Posted by sloper at 09/06/2008 @ 07:07am
There were some comments about the last Super Bowl:
========================
Think of last years Superbowl, and the old saying....
"That's why we play the game."
Posted by Benchrest
That being said, the Manning brothers kick ass.
Posted by Wolfgang1
========================
I am not a New England Patriot fan, but to say I was not happy with the outcome of the last Super Bowl would be the mother of all understatements. I do not like the team of morons that won the last Super Bowl only because the game went 30 seconds too long.
1. Somebody needs to tell the idiot on that team who, during the trophy presentation after the game, said "We did this for the State of New York", that there is only ONE NFL team in the State of New York, the BUFFALO BILLS.
2. It is good that Brett Favre will be quarterbacking the New York Jets. I am hoping at the end of the year they end up being the better of the two teams that play in their stadium.
3. There needs to be a NFL rule started that NO team that has a player on it's roster with the last name of Manning is allowed into the Super Bowl UNLESS the player's first name is PEYTON.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/06/2008 @ 07:24am
FZ....nice site. Thanks
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/06/2008 @ 07:57am
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 06:50am
No, sorry, PONTI, it's not "rational"...
it's a RATIONALIZATION.
Some white right-wing fundy preacher says "God will punish America for its sins of homosexuality and abortion"....you got no problem with it nor any problem with YOUR political candidate hanging out with them.
A black left-wing preacher says "God will damn America for its sins of racism and poverty"....you got a problem with it and a problem with a political candidate hanging out with them.
and THAT is the only difference.
BTW, you think those white right-wing fundy preachers don't have THEIR conspiracy theories? Like how the UPC code is the "Mark of the Beast"? or how the Proctor & Gamble sign is "devilish"? or how the European Union is the "10 headed beast that the Antichrist will lead in his war on Israel"? or that "homosexuals want to teach our kids to be gay so they can recruit them"??????
You're a hypocrite...just like Karl Rove was on Tim Kaine....Sean Hannity and Dick Morris are on "sexism"...and the rest.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 08:34am
I'm watching C Span, "Washington Journal". There is a character named Cliff Kinkade that has stated that Obama is a Muslim Communist with all kinds of documentation, he says, and that Sarah Palin is a saint and is going to be cononized by the pope any day now. Cliff doesn't think that Sarah should appear on any program except Sean Hannity's. This person, Mr. Kinkade apparently has a following, because of the number of call ins he got. My wife has a friend in Florida that thinks this way. Now I' m watching Col. Danny Bubp. Claims that Al Qaeda was the only ones murdering innocent people, while we are totally innocent. Why isn't there independent press reporting. Burp sounds so stupid that I'm beginning to understand why we are in so much trouble internationally. He says that we are winning. How can we win a war built on a lie? What do we win? A new Toyota? What happened to Lara Logan
Posted by lachatte at 09/06/2008 @ 08:52am
Posted by lachatte at 09/06/2008 @ 08:52am
Kincaid is editor of "Accuracy in Media"....hard right "media watch dog" made up of conspiracy theorists who thought Walter Cronkite was a "Soviet dupe" and that there was a "cover-up of Clinton's murders and the Alma, Arkansas drug cartel".
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 08:56am
FZ....nice site. Thanks
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/06/2008 @ 07:57am
no problemoo.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 09:20am
Some white right-wing fundy preacher says "God will punish America for its sins of homosexuality and abortion"....you got no problem with it nor any problem with YOUR political candidate hanging out with them.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 08:34am
"A black left-wing preacher says "God will damn America for its sins of racism and poverty"....you got a problem with it and a problem with a political candidate hanging out with them."
Uh, no, MASK, that's not exactly what Wright said. He said that his parisioners should sing 'God Damn America'. His premise was because there was racisim and poverty in America, true. But the parallel fails because regardless of what faults the preachers you mentioned found with America, they did not preach that the parishioners should chant hate-filled slogans. Do you see the difference yet?
"and THAT is the only difference."
Disproved above.
"BTW, you think those white right-wing fundy preachers don't have THEIR conspiracy theories? Like how the UPC code is the "Mark of the Beast"? or how the Proctor & Gamble sign is "devilish"? or how the European Union is the "10 headed beast that the Antichrist will lead in his war on Israel"a? or that "homosexuals want to teach our kids to be gay so they can recruit them"??????"
Another false parallel. Obviously, McCain has not condoned the works crazy preachers who say the UPC code are the mark of the devil by calling them his 'spiritual mentors' or attending their churches for 20 years.
Your rationalizations are as flimsy as wet newspaper, MASK. It is you who are the hypocrite, not I.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:09am
This is where things break down in these blogs:
Above, lachatte said
".......... How can we win a war built on a lie? ......."
Recently, some lefties have been harping on me as to the quality of my discourse, the support for my points, substantiation of my opinions, etc, or that I should only be providing some kind of weighty intellectual analysis and not opinion or "feelings", etc.
But lachatte's comment is lachatte's opinion, not substantiated with any discussion, discourse, information or facts.
And lachatte's opinion is an opinion that many, including me do not share.
And this is a topic which has been ground around and around until kingdom come on these blogs and elsewhere, with liberals promoting their viewpoint and conservatives promoting theirs.
Each side offering "proof" that their opinion is the right opinion.
Obviously, I believe the arguments supporting what we did in Iraq trump those against.
But the point here is, will the firestorm of criticism fall down upon lachatte for providing an unsubstantiated, unsupported opinion?
Of course not, because from what I have seen in these blogs, when a leftie makes a comment, they feel it is blatantly obvious, and self-proving in and of itself, with other lefties nodding their heads in agreement to the "obvious"
So the contortions here by arrogant, obnoxious, hyper-intellectual lefties about the quality of "discourse" when Conservatives comment on these blogs is just those on the left expressing their opinion publicly about how they possess superior intellect.
This has been mentioned by some conservatives, such as Rush Limbaugh, that those on the left are condescending elitists. Barack Obama has acted that way during this election season.
Just proof, provided by you on the left, that Rush is right.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/06/2008 @ 10:12am
USA TODAY cites a Huffington Post source:
"Kalnins [pastor of the Wasilla Assemblies of God church] has preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell;
questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted into heaven; and preached that the Sept. 11 attacks and the war in Iraq were part of a world war over Christianity."
Palin speaking at the Wasilla church in June 2008:
http://www.chron.com/channel/ houstonbelief/commons/persona.html? newspaperUserId=kengurley&plck Controller=PersonaBlog&plckScript= personaScript&plckElementId=perso naDest&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost &plckPostId=Blog%3AkengurleyPost%3 A12162c31-9c19-4cde-950e-7ad2feac5379
Posted by tskinner at 09/06/2008 @ 10:24am
The right has complained endlessly about Obama's pastor but this one will be "business as usual."
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/06/2008 @ 10:37am
Note to Masdelta: "Kincaid" right. Thanks for the spell check. I checked Google and found the web site. Holy SH#$. He sounds like the characters that I have on my ignore list. I thought that these characters had disappeared during the last ice age. I think that they found evidence that existed in a cave in France. I saw one of these ladies recently being interviewed by Chris Mathews during the Democratic Convention. Rude, obnoxious, and absolutely certain that her lies were fact. That Obama was a Muslim. She had documentation.
Masdelta thanks
Posted by lachatte at 09/06/2008 @ 11:29am
I noticed that that some of the" ameners" are all riled up about Saint Sarah. They all know exactly what Jesus looked like, six feet tall, blond and blue eyed. They know this because they have a Polaroid portrait of the man on their mantel. No, No they don't have a fireplace just a plastic mantel.
Posted by lachatte at 09/06/2008 @ 11:35am
There,certainly,is more than one way to say G-D America and there is more than one way to express your paranoia than to say that America created AIDs.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 12:53pm
Maybe he should visit Africa and see where some of the desensents of those who weren't sold into slavery to the Europeans by the other black tribes are doing to determine if the my are damned by God for their part inslavery and the resulting poverty...see how the life is going on there and see if that place might be Goddamned for it's past sins. Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/06/2008 @ 11:16am
What's funny is the things you heard in sunday school. I heard growing up in black churches. We like to think that we are so far away from the years of segregation but we aren't. It is still common for some people in the black community to carry this anger and because of that it is not uncommon in the black community and baptist churches to hear exactly what Wright said.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/06/2008 @ 1:04pm
OF COURSE!
she's a christofascist!!!!!!
of course her pastor believes in cult like fantasy scenarios which conveniently strike down all their political and worldly opponants...its what they believe!!!
many beleive the world was created 6000 years ago in 6 days (ooooh! thats kinda kreepy! all i need is one more nebulous six and....) and dont want little girls to get the genital warts vaccine or non abstinance only sex ed because they'd rather their daughters get genital warts and preggers than consider a little controlled sin...
oh yes - listen to about any average christofascist preacher man and you got a reverend wright on the right BINGO!!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 09/06/2008 @ 2:30pm
I don't think the visual matters.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/06/2008 @ 2:31pm
Why? He wasn't a real man?
Posted by Malcontent at 09/06/2008 @ 2:43pm
If your goal is winning the majority of votes, I think "pastorwars" is a very bad strategy for those supporting Obama.
I suggest that the left stick to its strong suits. Class envy, victimization, blame, etc.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/06/2008 @ 2:54pm
This is what democrats need to push because moderates and most independents are quite fearful when it comes to far right wing religious extremists.The stuff about Wright got played to death and it hasn't scared moderates or most independents,but end times people scare most everyone.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 3:01pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/06/2008 @ 2:54pm
"I suggest that the left stick to its strong suits. Class envy, victimization, blame, etc."
You forgot resentment and paranoia.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 3:17pm
Ponti-Resentment and paranoia are human things that unrelated to political views.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 3:19pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:09am
McCain not only condoned...he SOUGHT OUT the endorsement of John Hagee.
Give it up, PONTI....the ONLY difference between Wright and Kroon....is skin color and politics.
Same reason you'll excuse one and focus on the other.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 3:27pm
The typos are the least of your problems jomamma. A spell checker doesn't help a windbag.
Posted by Steve C. at 09/06/2008 @ 4:49pm
BTW, the way "it's totally different" to guys like PONTI (or inevitably LVLIB of course) is...
it's "okay" if some wacko preacher (white of course) says that America is "sinful" and "God will punish us"...
That's fine....but let some inner city black preacher say the EXACT SAME THING and say the sin is something the Right considers "no big deal anymore"...
and it's "dangerous"!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/05/2008 @ 10:32pm
This will be a common theme among the atheists, but not much play elsewhere. the beliefs of about 40% of the nation are attacked by those who do not respect the right of others to practice their faith as accorded by the first amendment.
And Mask, I have repeatedly confronted this lie that I spoke against Rev Wright. If you go back you will see that I defended those remarks. I just said I would have phrased it differently.
The Westminster Confession is the most widely used doctrine by most Protestant denominations.
"Of the Last Judgment I. God hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world in righteousness by Jesus Christ, to whom all power and judgment is given of the Father. In which day, not only the apostate angels shall be judged; but likewise all persons, that have lived upon earth, shall appear before the tribunal of Christ, to give an account of their thoughts, words, and deeds; and to receive according to what they have done in the body, whether good or evil. "
balance of text to follow
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/06/2008 @ 5:06pm
rest of text of Westminster Confession on Judgment
"II. The end of God's appointing this day, is for the manifestation of the glory of his mercy in the eternal salvation of the elect; and of his justice in the damnation of the reprobate, who are wicked and disobedient. For then shall the righteous go into everlasting life, and receive that fullness of joy and refreshing which shall come from the presence of the Lord: but the wicked, who know not God, and obey not the gospel of Jesus Christ, shall be cast into eternal torments, and punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.
III. As Christ would have us to be certainly persuaded that there shall be a day of judgment, both to deter all men from sin, and for the greater consolation of the godly in their adversity: so will he have that day unknown to men, that they may shake off all carnal security, and be always watchful, because they know not at what hour the Lord will come; and may be ever prepared to say, Come, Lord Jesus, come quickly. Amen."
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/06/2008 @ 5:08pm
lvliberty-Can't be a day of judgment because a creator can't judge it's creation.A creator can only judge itself and it's ability to create.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 5:13pm
All that Reverend Wright and this preacher are saying is that, from the Christian point of view, there is consequence to sin whether sin is committed by a nation or a person. Jeremiah Wright was using God Damn America in a religious sense just as the bible uses the workd damned to describe a fallen person. Yes, some of Wrights asertions were very wrong especiall on AIDS and such, but that issue should have never gotten the attention it got. What this shows is a tremendous double standard. A white evangelical is not as scary as a raspy black man so it is not as focused on. The right wing talk shows will not keep it going either. Sean Hannity beat the Wright story to death and then some. Don't expect that here.
Posted by jlw771 at 09/06/2008 @ 5:40pm
zero,
Liberal Media???!!!
How many crackers did it take to teach you to say that?
Posted by chakrakhan at 09/06/2008 @ 6:23pm
"All that Reverend Wright and this preacher are saying is that, from the Christian point of view, there is consequence to sin whether sin is committed by a nation or a person. Jeremiah Wright was using God Damn America in a religious sense just as the bible uses the workd damned to describe a fallen person. Yes, some of Wrights asertions were very wrong especiall on AIDS and such, but that issue should have never gotten the attention it got. What this shows is a tremendous double standard. A white evangelical is not as scary as a raspy black man so it is not as focused on. The right wing talk shows will not keep it going either. Sean Hannity beat the Wright story to death and then some. Don't expect that here."
Posted by jlw771 at 09/06/2008 @ 5:40pm
It's not quite as simple as that. Those who are likely to vote for candidates like or who are supported by Palin (as in the present situation) are those in the main who share similar convictions, even if they may think some interpretations are open to question, and are certainly unlikely to be put off or offended by a candidate like Palin and in fact still be fully in tune with most of her social positions.
Obama on the other hand has a more liberal view of Christianity, is an academic by background and is supported by those who in the main are likely to be more secular and less likely to be orthodoxly religious.
In that context those sorts of Obama supporters should be very concerned about the crassness of Wright's mythologies and if they were thoughtful people should want to know why a person with Obama's intellectual abilities and academic background could sit under that sort of intellectual garbage for so long. That is the issue and it raises a question about his discernment.
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/06/2008 @ 8:16pm
Palin's selection says more about McCain's judgement than it does about Palin. Palin is a willing pawn being used by the GOP as their last ditch effort to once again secure the Executive Branch of the Country.
Palin is to be a distraction away from the current state of the country, which was brought to us by those who are currently running the country and mcCain's campaign.
Intuitively, we all know that Palin is not really qualified for this job and NONE of us would be comfortable putting her in the seat of the President (should anything happen to McCain) without knowing a little more about her.
She was not vetted by the McCain camp, so what we are witnessing is a vetting by the media. Once again McCain's fault. Now they feel the need to hid her because she is woefully unprepared to "go it alone" on the campaign trail.
Palin was never picked to help McCain govern, she was picked as a gimmick to help him win. For that alone, John McCain is not fit to serve as president of this nation. That is my opinion.
At some point, Americans will reach a level of maturity and sophistication the is required to wade through the gimmicks and confront the issues. Until that time, parties like the GOP will continue to pull the wool over your eyes and you will continue be blinded. Good Luck with that as the nation spirals downward.
We have the POWER to change things but do we have the GUTS?
Posted by Julescator at 09/06/2008 @ 8:34pm
Posted by jlw771 at 09/06/2008 @ 5:40pm
"Sean Hannity beat the Wright story to death and then some. Don't expect that here."
So, do you sing 'God Damn America'? Also, do you think the government (white people, I guess?) invented drugs and AIDS to kill black people? Do you think people who think so are insane, or is that a plausible theory to you?
Until those questions are answered, by Obama and by those who, like yourself, support him, I don't think the subject can be considered 'beaten to death', merely because you find it inconvenient to talk about.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 8:52pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 3:27pm
"Give it up, PONTI....the ONLY difference between Wright and Kroon....is skin color and politics."
Well, MASK, if you're comfortable voting for a guy who attended a church like Wrights for 20 years, if you think it's okay for Obama, your best hope for President, to condone the kind of hate that Wright spews, then I think you ought to think very carefully before condemning hate speech from others, because you're supporting it yourself.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:00pm
Ponti-Voting for Obama would,of course,not be condoning hate speech unless it's Obama that says it.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 9:05pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:00pm
YOU're comfortable with somebody that hung out with Kalinin and Kroon....so hardly in a mood to hear lectures from you.
Again, you're just pissed because your "Sweeheart of the Right" is now undercutting EVERY attack on Obama...."experience"...."wacky preachers"...."links to extremists" (although Obama was just on a board with Bill Ayers....Palin is MARRIED to a guy who wanted Alaska to secede!!!!!)
And on a level playing field...with no attacks like those....just "the economy" and "do you want 4 more years of Bush"...
you lose...and you know it!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 9:08pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 9:05pm
"Ponti-Voting for Obama would,of course,not be condoning hate speech unless it's Obama that says it."
Hmmm really. So, since I assume you wish to be consistent and intellectually honest, if McCain had sat in on Ku Klux Klan meetings for the last 20 years, you would be okay with that as long as he didn't actually call for lynching of blacks himself? Boy, you liberals sure are broadminded!
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:11pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 9:08pm
"Palin is MARRIED to a guy who wanted Alaska to secede!!!!!)"
I heard he was a Democrat...seriously! A union type Democrat.
"Again, you're just pissed because your "Sweeheart of the Right" is now undercutting EVERY attack on Obama...."experience"...."wacky preachers""
Pissed? Because you've constructed a fantasy world where that is true? Gimme a break. All this 'preacher wars' stuff doesn't cut any ice with anybody, you lefties here at the Nation are, as usual, disconnected with reality, believing your own propaganda. Nobody for a minute confuses whatever preacher you dig up with 'God Damn America' Wright and his spiritual devotee. You're not fooling anybody, my friend, except yourself.
you lose...and you know it!
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:15pm
Pontificus: I you can draw a connection between Rev. Wright and the current economic conditions brought to us by the GOP AND the record number of home foreclosures AND the unemployment figure of 6.1% AND the devastatingly high costs for healthcare AND the Occupation in Iraq AND the credit crisis AND the spiraling values of our homes AND our stained reputation in the world, then perhaps I would entertain you idea that we should put THIS GOP BACK INTO OFFICE. I am open to persuasion! Seriously!
Posted by Julescator at 09/06/2008 @ 9:17pm
I meant "IF" not I as the first word. Sorry
Posted by Julescator at 09/06/2008 @ 9:18pm
Ponti-The KKK is a white racist terrorist organization that can't be compared to attending a black church,for obvious reasons.You are a white guy trying to pass judgment on a black church based on a couple of out takes making your view based on your ignorance of the subject.However,I'm finding your obsession with the church and your need to constantly write G-D America to be quite interesting since you never shorten,like everyone else.You write it all out.Most telling.By the way,Wright is old gossip and we Americans get bored quickly with old gossip.Thanks to McCain we now have a VP candidate that is providing us with tons of new gossip.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 9:31pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 9:31pm
"Ponti-The KKK is a white racist terrorist organization that can't be compared to attending a black church,for obvious reasons."
Those reasons are not obvious to me. Do all black churches preach that the government (i.e., white people) invented AIDS and drugs in order to kill black people? And how is that different from the worst hate spewed by the KKK? I mean, if I were black, and I believed the hate that people like Wright spewed, would I not be justified in starting a race war, if it was true that white people were trying to kill me? How is this not the same as the hate spewed by the KKK?
Tell me, do all black churches encourage their parishioners to sing 'God Damn America'? And if you're so uncomfortable with me spelling that out, why would you be so comfortable defending it? Your thought processes are, to me, to say the least, bizarre and twisted.
"You are a white guy trying to pass judgment on a black church based on a couple of out takes making your view based on your ignorance of the subject."
Bullshit. The word is, they guys who took over after Wright are not better in tone or content. You're either lying, or just plain ignorant in making that statement.
"By the way,Wright is old gossip and we Americans get bored quickly with old gossip.Thanks to McCain we now have a VP candidate that is providing us with tons of new gossip."
No, what you would like to do is MAKE it old gossip by avoiding the questions. Very Clintonesque of you, apparently you learned something from those two scoundrels.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:41pm
Posted by Julescator at 09/06/2008 @ 9:17pm
Hey, you'll have to connect the dots yourself. If you want to vote for a guy like Obama, who thinks he's going to a) make health care better by putting the Post Office in charge b) improve our standing in the world by apologizing to everybody for our existence c) save jobs by instituting disastrous protectionist policies disproved long ago...
If you're foolish enough to think that instituting disastrous policies like these are going to solve the problems you mentioned...well, then you're foolish. To me, Obama looks like the second coming of Jimmy Carter, where stupid policies like these made a bad situation almost a catastrophe back in the late 70's - a scenario I would prefer not to relive.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:46pm
Ponti-It isn't obvious to you that there is a difference between a terrorist organization and one that isn't a terrorist organization?That is quite sad,but you were able to write out your favorite saying,again.G-D America..It's hardly bs to point out that you are a white guy judging something that you know nothing about.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 10:05pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 10:05pm
"It's hardly bs to point out that you are a white guy judging something that you know nothing about."
You're right - I don't understand it at all. Maybe you can explain why it's okay to tell people that the government is conspiring to kill black people, and how black people should sing 'God Damn America', and how if people like me only understood it, we'd realize it's a good thing. So go right ahead and explain it.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:12pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:15pm
From 1995 to 2002, Todd Palin was registered to vote as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party, which advocates making Alaska an independent territory or even nation.
And if Michelle Obama belonged to such a group.....you'd be all over over it 24/7.
Again, thanks to SARAH PALIN (or more to the point McCain for picking her)....
you are now forced to say "It's TOTALLY different when it's OUR crazy preachers and wild-eyed radicals....TOTALLY!"
ROFL!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 10:15pm
kitty knows where all this is headed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKUHprCYyak&fmt=18
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 10:29pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 9:46pm
...and apparently you think 4 more years of what hasn't worked for the past eight will make it all better. Seems you are a member of the "Fool me twice...shame on me" club
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/06/2008 @ 10:33pm
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/06/2008 @ 10:33pm
"...and apparently you think 4 more years of what hasn't worked for the past eight will make it all better. Seems you are a member of the "Fool me twice...shame on me" club"
Things didn't look like they could get worse in '76 when Carter was elected, either. But they could get worse...a lot worse. And Obama is promising the same sorts of policies that Carter offered. No thanks from this voter.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:37pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/06/2008 @ 10:15pm
"you are now forced to say "It's TOTALLY different when it's OUR crazy preachers and wild-eyed radicals....TOTALLY!""
When it comes to light McCain's pastor and spiritual mentor for the last 20 years has been preaching that black people are conspiring to kill white people - and that people should sing 'God Damn America' - you'll have a point, MASK. Until then, you're just a nut.
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:40pm
Ponti-There are tons of white churches that say G-D America,too,but just say it in a different way and who say paranoid things,but you did get to,once again,write out your favorite saying G-D America.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/06/2008 @ 10:46pm
All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution.
Draft Constitution for Virginia (June 1776).
common guys.
FACTS - TRUTH '08
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 10:53pm
the father of a half'n'half freak said this a ways back:
that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; and therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust or emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religions opinion, is depriving him injudiciously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow-citizens, he has a natural right; that it tends also to corrupt the principles of that very religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing with a monopoly of worldly honours and emolumerits, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminals who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, … and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself; that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate ; errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them.
FACTS - TRUTH '08
Please. Rice is Getting Expensive.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 10:54pm
God Damn, America!
FACTS - TRUTH '08
Please, The Earth Can Only Spin So Fast.
(please note comma!)
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 10:58pm
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:37pm
So then you admit to wanting 4 more years of loonies driving the bus of surreality towards the great white temple of Christian Theocracy.
whack-job
Afraid of things that are new, that are different. We understand your trepidation, your inherent fear of the unknown ... buts its OK ponti. BO is a bright guy, and I should think you'd want someone capable of a 3.9+ at Harvard versus a "I damned near failed" to come up with new and workable ideas. A man who is used to thinking on his feet?
You know in the recent McCain bio thing on CNN they refer to a time he crashed a plane at sea. He knew that there was a canopy release latch, but he hadn't read the book so he assumed he would die of that inaction. It was sheer dumb luck that he made it out. Don't you, this time, want a President who'll take time to read the owner's manual for critical info rather than someone who blunders through and figures it out as he goes (if he can.) Because that IS what we've had for 8 years and most of us are sick to death of being lead to perdition by the freaking village idiot.
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/07/2008 @ 12:11am
Posted by man00ver at 09/06/2008 @ 11:18pm
Scientists and researchers can also continue work to make renewables productive for commercial viability.
••••• yeah, and the wisest path to take is to pool community resources (the TAXMAN! -- no, borrowing isn't the answer.) to fund such. and fast. way cheaper than war.
••••• if america's economy is to thrive, it must begin to work it's butt off on energy tech.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/07/2008 @ 02:58am
Why, as one reader wrote, do all ministers occasionally preach a sermon that is "off the wall"? Could it be that there is something unbalanced in all of them that, from time to time, breaks through the more normal personality? Something like a mental patient who skipped his meds for a day or two?
Posted by goedel at 09/07/2008 @ 03:47am
Posted by pontificus at 09/06/2008 @ 10:40pm
What about Palin?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/07/2008 @ 09:09am
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/06/2008 @ 10:54pm
Nice try, FROSTY, and as much as I enjoy your's and IM's mental contortionism, inciting hatred and paranoia is NOT religion. If I was black, and my preacher was telling me that my government was trying to kill me, I'd be pretty pissed off, especially if I was encouraged to sing mindless slogans of hatred like 'God Damn America'. In fact, I might even feel justified in picking up a gun or knife and doing some violence. If this is not hate speech, what is? And all of this is based on some kind of insane paranoid fantasy that you folks are protecting. You're pathetic.
Posted by pontificus at 09/07/2008 @ 09:35am
2 "I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," declares the LORD.
3 "I will sweep away both men and animals;
I will sweep away the birds of the air
and the fish of the sea.
The wicked will have only heaps of rubble
when I cut off man from the face of the earth,"
declares the LORD.
Wouldn't you just love to have a beer with this guy?
Posted by boing007 at 09/07/2008 @ 10:37am
Ponti-You have been unable to show that there is any mental contortionism on our parts.You showed that you don't know the difference between a terrorist group(KKK) and one that isn't.And you have shown that you love to write G-d America.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/07/2008 @ 11:12am
And you have shown that you love to write G-d America.----Posted by i'm nobody at 09/07/2008 @ 11:12am
Maybe HIS minister sounds like Larry Kroon or Ed Kalinin too???
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/07/2008 @ 12:05pm
Mask-Ponti has said it far more times than Wright.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/07/2008 @ 12:15pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/07/2008 @ 12:15pm
Yes, oddly...he seems to LIKE to say it?!??!??
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/07/2008 @ 1:43pm
"I suggest that the left stick to its strong suits. Class envy, victimization, blame, etc."
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/06/2008
How about following the word of Jesus: "No servant shall have two masters because he will not see with good eyes the first and will love the second. You can not serve both: God and money."
This is what Reps like you do, pretend to serve God without loving the ones that suffer. But people like you really serve money, power, and differences and unjustice that "claim to God". Just read it, they are all over the Scriptures.
Why did these "God-loving" Reps mocked on Obama's community service? Because they belittle anyone that works for the people, even when it is after a personal decision rejecting highly paid jobs in Wall Street to go for the forgotten. Reps are just enamored of power and will not ever release it to where it belongs: the people.
You talk about victimization and blame. I only will respond with this, people of the stature of Martin Luther King or Robert Kennedy, were not they victimized because of their ideas? If you are not able to see in a white poor kid, or an African-American, or an Hispanic kid barely able to attend school, without or with very limited access to a computer, and in an environment not culturally friendly as a person that is heavily handicapped to compete in the future, then not only you are blind, but deaf and stupid...you are Rep.
Posted by Frank42 at 09/07/2008 @ 2:08pm
Posted by librulfreaks at 09/07/2008 @ 2:19pm
1/2 racist and all moron....
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/07/2008 @ 2:25pm
What I never understand about the readiness of so many Americans to get into this is the lack of a real Christian message. I've heard so far from Palin a lot of hate, intolerance, nastiness, boasting and outright lies. If she wanted her daughter and boyfriend left alone, why did she parade both of them at the convention? I found her attacks on Obama thoroughly mean-spirited and offensive re the community organizing...Palin's actual record in Alaska is far from inspiring...She has in common with Clinton her gender and elective office, plus a certain odious quality of ruthlessness...her nomination is dangerous because of the continued willingness of too many Americans to listen to distractions while ignoring real issues. I have yet to hear either SP or JM talk about doing a Fannie Mae for the millions of ordinary Americans suffering in the bad economy...they're all for government action, but only to benefit corporations. Voters need to see the double standard, but they don't.
Posted by mimsky at 09/07/2008 @ 2:29pm
LibZ ...
try some Vicks 44. Take a 44 mag, write "vicks" on it, slip into the revolver. Spin once and then apply directly to the forehead. Repeat until the voices disappear.
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/07/2008 @ 5:48pm
My observation is that Red River is another right wing motor mouth.
Posted by Steve C. at 09/07/2008 @ 6:24pm
Posted by mimsky at 09/07/2008 @ 2:29pm
Nicely worded. After a while, one must ask how it is that this sort of pseudo Christian, pseudo civility, pseudo logic, pseudo humor, pseudo patriotism has such power and momentum.
Ineptitude, high crimes, traitorous behaviors -- nothing penetrates the hard right node.
Still the struggle against the scourge of the 'mythic membership' limitations brings results - the end of slavery, the 15th Amendment, civil rights, etc.
When mega-corporate media is so uniformly aggressive at pumping out neocon distortions, it's reasonable to expect another win for them.
Palin shoots moose, has a Downs baby and international military expertise protecting Alaska against it's evil neighbor Canada... put it through the alphabet media distortinator, and... it's another 'win' for the Happy's of the world.
Posted by winyahn at 09/07/2008 @ 9:39pm
Perhaps this country won't ever be restored, perhaps the corporatocracy will mark it's peak.
Posted by winyahn at 09/07/2008 @ 9:43pm