It was called "the dream ticket" -- a pairing of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton as the Democratic candidates for president and vice president in 2008.

But the dream died around 3 a.m. EST Saturday, when Obama's camp emailed millions of supporters to tell them that the African-American man who made history by securing the party's nomination would not be running with the woman who made history by almost securing the party's nomination.

Or did it?

Delegates to the Democratic National Convention will, of course, have an opportunity to vote for Clinton when the presidential roll-call takes place.

But what if Clinton diehards take advantage of procedures outlined in the convention rules for a vice presidential roll-call vote?

According to party rules for the convention, there is supposed to be a roll call ballot to choose the vice presidential candidate: "After nominations for Vice Presidential candidates have closed, the Convention shall proceed to a roll call vote by states on the selection of the Vice Presidential candidate. The roll call voting procedure shall be conducted in the same manner as that heretofore provided for the selection of the nominee for President of the United States."

The Obama camp, obsessed as it is with managing every detail of the convention, will not be enthusiastic about a vice-presidential roll call vote. There will probably be a call for approval of the Biden nomination by acclamation. But there are no assurances that Clinton backers -- of whom there will be more than 1,500 on the Clinton floor -- will greet such a call with cheers.

For her part, Clinton is officially on board with the O'Biden ticket.

Clinton and Biden are members of the club -- perhaps not political soul mates but Senate allies and, to the extent that it is possible in Washington, friends.

So it comes as no surprise that the woman who might have been president, and who might have been vice president, is speaking well of the Barack Obama's decision to name Biden as his running mate.

"In naming my colleague and friend Senator Joe Biden to be the Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has continued in the best traditions for the Vice Presidency by selecting an exceptionally strong, experienced leader and devoted public servant," read the statement Clinton released Saturday morning. "Senator Biden will be a purposeful and dynamic Vice President who will help Senator Obama both win the Presidency and govern this great country."

That's gracious, and sincere -- Clinton knows that Biden would be her best ally and conduit in an Obama White House.

But it is not going to satisfy the most frustrated of Clinton's supporters, who experienced a brief flurry of -- dare we use the word -- "hope" when Clinton's name surfaced as a prospect in the final days of Obama's veep search.

"It's a big mistake not to choose her," objects Jenny Doggett, a Clinton backer who has urged a floor fight at the convention. "It's sad and it's a sure way to guarantee the Republicans will win."

California Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez has been vocal in her expression of frustrations regarding the treatment of Clinton by the Obama team -- which reportedly made no effort to vet the former first lady as a possible running mate -- but says Clinton will be a team player at the convention.

"She'll go in, she'll wow them and she'll get out of the way," Sanchez says of Clinton's anticipated Tuesday night address to the gathering.

In fact, if Clinton really wants to help her friend Biden, she will have to talk him up at the convention.

Clinton will not allow her name to be placed in nomination for vice president, even if her supporters were to gather the required 300 delegate signatures on a petition seeking to place her in nomination.

But if a vice presidential roll-call vote takes place, the rules are clear: "Delegates may vote for the candidate of their choice whether or not the name of such candidate was placed in nomination. Any vote cast other than a vote for (a candidate who has been formally nominated) shall be considered a vote for 'Present.'"

But a substantial number of "present for Hillary" votes might be the bigger actual news stories of the convention.

So it is that, when the nomination speeches are made for Obama's vice presidential selection on Wednesday, there will have to be some prominent women and Clinton backers speaking up for Biden. And they will have to emphasize Biden's feminist credentials -- especially his leadership role in writing and passing the landmark 1994 Violence Against Women Act. (The Clinton-friendly National Organization for Women was hailing the Biden pick, arguing that, "We know that Sen. Biden will bring the crucial issue of violence prevention to the forefront as he travels the country discussing issues of concern to voters, especially women voters.")

If Hillary Clinton were to return to the stage Wednesday as one of those nominating Biden, it would be a powerful statement -- although asking her to take such a role might be seen as demanding too much of defeated contender who, as she recently noted, has already done plenty of heavy lifting for the presumptive nominee.

The fundamental fact with regard to Barack Obama's vice presidential selection is this: The selection of Biden has created a new, and important, convention test for the Obama team. They need not just to present Biden to the convention and the nation but also to do so in the manner that is satisfying, respectful and, ultimately, appealing to Clinton's most committed supporters -- not just on the convention floor but nationally.

Comments (47)

1. Well, beyond the VP row call, if there's enough Billary revolutionary convert types, can't a floor fight still go either way as far as even the presidential nominee row call balloting too? Not likely, but a possibility? Not like Obama had a blow-out and non-pledged delegates can un-pledge... But that would be a very public Billary political suicide. As she's towing the line now, it'd be too much excitement to even wish for.

   Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 11:31am

2. Isn't Billary already in nomination?

   Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 11:43am

3. Hey, uh, HSUB......?????

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 11:56am

4. Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 11:57am

   MAASCH, do you realize you're like the anti-matter to FRANK's matter..."anti-FRANK".

   By which, like he thinks the Clintons are not only "all good, but also all powerful"...you think they're "all bad, but ALSO also all powerful!"

   Hillary causes or by lack of action SEEMS to cause an Obama loss...her careeer and REPUTATION is finished.

   Get Obama elected and get Reid to retire and become Majority Leader...THAT's her "fiendish plan" now.

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 12:07pm

5. Hey, uh, HSUB......?????

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 11:56am

   What?

   Asking about the convention catharsis roll call where Hillary gets votes called out too?

   Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:19pm

6. An Obama/Clinton team would be a dream team, if you are a republican.Hillary endorsed McCain during the primaries.

   Posted by i'm nobody at 08/23/2008 @ 12:40pm

7. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:19pm

   So NOW it's "Gore wins a brokered Convention" again????

   heheh

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 1:21pm

8. Is it?

   Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:27pm

9. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:27pm

   Come on, HSUBBY.

   Give a good ol' "You know, with Hillary's folks riled up, they could call for a roll call...it could deadlock...and then they'd be forced to turn to a 'third disinterested party' to be the nominee to settle things down....Wonder who THAT would be?....here's a link to a T-shirt on tinyurl.com and an article from this guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who thinks Gore would take it for the good of the party and the country and the world!!!"

   heheh

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 1:36pm

10. One just never knows... does one.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:56pm

11. Kinda like chess or is it dice?

    Maybe checkers!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:57pm

12. Isn't the word 'delegate' both a noun and a verb?

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 2:00pm

13. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:56pm

    Seriously, man....

    FRANK---Hillary

    METTEYYA---Obama

    John Nichols---Russ Feingold

    You?----guess?

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:18pm

14. Seriously, man....

    FRANK---Hillary

    METTEYYA---Obama

    John Nichols---Russ Feingold

    You?----guess?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:18pm

    (And per your anti-impeachment protection for the constitutional crimes of hsuB/cHeney admin:

    MkDelta--- hsuB/cHeney)

    LOL

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 2:38pm

15. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 2:38pm

    No, just a fan of reality...

    you should try it sometime!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:52pm

16. a fan of reality...

    you should try it sometime!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:52pm

    And thanks to people like you-- it's a petty dic'tatorship with 100's of thousands more killed and maimed, trillions of $ down the corporate sink-hole, higher debt for our kids and theirs and theirs...

    Thanks to your pro-tective reality.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 3:02pm

17. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 3:02pm

    It never was going to happen.

    I knew it...you couldn't accept it.

    Same for the fact... Al Gore will NEVER return to the White House!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:07pm

18. FRANK---Hillary

    METTEYYA---Obama

    John Nichols---Russ Feingold

    You?----guess?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:18pm

    (And per your anti-impeachment protection for the constitutional crimes of hsuB/cHeney admin:

    MkDelta--- hsuB/cHeney)

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 2:38pm

    It never was going to happen.

    I knew it...you couldn't accept it.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:07pm

    Actually, people like you created hsuB/cHeney by pushing apathy and acceptance.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 3:42pm

19. And for you to accept that would be reality.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 3:43pm

20. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 3:42pm

    I did nothing, HSUB. Pelosi, Reid, et al did.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:48pm

21. I did nothing, HSUB. Pelosi, Reid, et al did.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:48pm

    Your push and approval for nothing to be done is what motivates our reps to do nothing. It used to be 'by and for' the people. Thanks for the petty dic'tatorship and the gestapo DoJ. I'm sure all our maimed, dead, and want to be dead soldiers are thankful your inspirational patriotism too.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 5:54pm

22. er, are thankful for your inspirational patriotism too.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 5:56pm

23. although i'm not one for patriotism,

    it is good to see that someone still cares about justice.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 6:17pm

24. "This boat is going to be the Toyota Prius of the houseboat business," Austin proclaims. "It is the most eco-friendly houseboat anywhere in the country." Austin claims that the "Bio-Solar One" will create 40-50 percent less carbon emission and use half the fuel of other similar houseboats. "Gore will consume a lot more fuel driving to and from the lake than he will ever use cruising on this houseboat," Austin [boat maker] asserts.

    <<<<<>>>>>

    well, that's still 50% more than zero. plus, all the hydrocarbons used to refine the raw materials that make up this 100 foot beast.

    plus, the construction.

    plus, the towing to the lake.

    etc.,

    shameful.

    the man makes environmentally concerned citizens look like fools.

    i watch his movie. great, thanks mr. gore. but what also sticks in my head is that the man is interviewed in a limo.

    can't he afford a honda?!?!?!?!?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 6:21pm

25. ...for Obama to win he can't run on your beliefs.

    .there was and is no impeachable offence and no support broad enought to risk political capital...IE..you are on the fringe..

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 6:09p

    We have a unitary executive. Same thing as a petty dic'tatorship.

    Proof we're in a petty dic'taorship: our DoJ will not enforce congressional subpoenas.

    12 years of a corrupt and pervert tolerant new con repub congressional majority along with an uneducated dumbed-down following, spurred on by a cowardly MSM, an army of bloggers, to do nothing-- gave us this.

    Yeah, bet that one Chinese student standing in front of that tank in Tiananmen Square-- sure did look silly to you and MkDelta.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 6:32pm

26. gave us this.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 6:32pm

    actually, most of its borrowed.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 6:40pm

27. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 5:54pm

    No....just faced facts.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 6:48pm

28. Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 6:21pm

    Know how much carbon a single person puts out just breathing-- a lot more than 0%.

    Should we all just hold our breath?

    Ha, you first, as the saying goes.

    Kidding aside, I believe what we're looking for is 'balance' since we do not ever really create more carbon, we displace it from where it is into the atmosphere temporarily. There is actually a necessary level that 'needs' to be in the atmosphere.

    But it is also true that we can all do more to help put less into the atmosphere than needs to be there.

    Given that people aren't going to stop making boats, isn't better that the ones that are built utilize the most current and best technology for the least carbon emission. And if that continues will it not evolve to the best built and least carbon emissions?

    I do not think comparing apples and tennis balls is fair however.

    So lets compare Al Gore to somebody approaching the same socio-economical standing: McPOWhowmanyMANSIONS, for instance...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 7:02pm

29. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 5:54pm

    No....just faced facts.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 6:48pm

    I'm sure you'll be proud to put something to that affect on your gravestone...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 7:15pm

30. hsuBfools

    but you, as an artíst, must know that reality matters little.

    it is the perception of the reality that counts.

    <<<<<>>>>>

    Utility records show the Gore family paid an average monthly electric bill of about $1,200 last year at the 10,000-square-foot home. The Gores used about 191,000 kilowatt hours in 2006 -- far more than the typical Nashville household, which uses about 15,600 kilowatt-hours per year.

    <<<<<>>>>>

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 7:23pm

31. it is the perception of the reality that counts.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 7:23pm

    Well I prefer to utilize all of my senses and not just one.

    And does that calculation of the Gore home include the housing of his security detail, assistants, visiting political and business associates?

    Kinda like the new con repubs trying to compare it to only 'part' of the hsuB compound in Crawford...

    Want to play fair, compare it to a similar size home and family or business usage; otherwise it's a false comparison.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 7:33pm

32. Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 6:09pm

    And the alternative is....?

    Voting for Nader who we blame for Bush winning in 2000

    Voting for McCain who has decided it's better to be Bush than be savaged by him (SC 2000)

    Not voting because Reid and Pelosi didn't impeach Bush

    Voting for Obama

    Oh yeah, that's a tough choice

    Posted by Pogge at 08/23/2008 @ 7:52pm

33. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 7:15pm

    HSUB, tell me, with all honesty, that my "one more" signature on some "impeachment petition website" would have caused Pelosi to switch "off the table" back "on the table"?

    Tell me that 100,000 and 1 (100,001) signatures would have convinced her...and I'll apologize for not being a CONTINUAL (even to today and dreamd for Al Gore in some Executive office) fantasist as you are.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 8:36pm

34. Interesting...a thread tailor-made for H.T.O.T.D.s and yet no sign of them? How interesting...

    Posted by yutsano at 08/23/2008 @ 8:40pm

35. Posted by yutsano at 08/23/2008 @ 8:40pm

    She's still in debt...maybe they finally cut out the position???

    heheh

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 9:28pm

36. Tell me that 100,000 and 1 (100,001) signatures would have convinced her...and I'll apologize...

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 8:36pm

    A billionaire would never have become a billionaire without having earned that very first dollar.

    It is an illogical argument to make that anyone of those individual billion could not have been the 1st or the last to make the total as they 'all' added up to create the sum.

    Similarly it is an amoral argument to make that the right action becomes the right thing to do only if 'enough others' also act. One can only guess that such a vacuous circular logic was created solely in order to negate clarity and action; suggesting the correct action as valueless."

    And the acceptance of that logic creates the weakest link of us all.

    It would be presumptive to say 'all that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing', as one may assume wrongly that there still exists one good man...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:11pm

37. H.T.O.T.D.s ?

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:16pm

38. Hillary Troll of the Day. s plural

    A specific species of paid political operative, now extinct.

    Posted by Benchrest at 08/23/2008 @ 10:24pm

39. Apparently.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:28pm

40. Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:11pm

    HSUB, at first, I said what David Corn said...that impeachment would be a distraction and would HURT the Democrats once they took Congress in 2006.

    Later, seeing little cojones to take the fight to Bush on the war, etc. I saw that they didn't NEED a "distraction" they were doing it themselves.

    But by THAT time, it was also apparent (to all but those who live in a political fantasy world) that MORE SO than how Pelosi failed to de-fund Iraq ...she sure as hell was not going to impeach the son-of-a-biach.

    Proving YOU wrong time after time, you naturally took my objections to your predictinos as "supporting HSUB"....a stance TOTALLY unfounded by the other posts I've made here.

    I merely meant it as a statement of fact and reality. YOU took it personally and started this notion that I "wanted to protect Hsub and Cheney", when the simple fact is, I was merely relating how things were going to be and not playing along with your little comic book world of "cosmic justice will out...Bush will be impeached and Gore will take up his rightful place as President".

    Want to live that way? Fine. But I don't live in a Dungeons & Dragons world of politics where "the good guys ALWAYS win" and saying they won't makes you a "minion of the Dark Side".

    It is simple acceptance that, less than 150 days from now, Bush will leave office un-impeached...and never suffer any true legal reprocussions.

    I don't like it...but I don't like a lot of things in the real world, from Darfur to Russian resurgence...but little is being done to change THOSE either.

    So? Am I "pro-Russia" or "pro-genocide" too???

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:42pm

41. I said what David Corn said...that impeachment would be a distraction

    (Corn too was wrong then wrong now.)

    Later, seeing little cojones ...

    (No cojones of a feather.)

    how Pelosi failed to de-fund Iraq ...she sure as hell was not going to impeach the son-of-a-biach.

    (Yes by all means-- blame the troops.)

    ....a stance TOTALLY unfounded by the other posts I've made here.

    (Your obscure micro-pro-impeachment posts were lost underneath the weight of your anti-impeachment avalanche.)

    I was merely relating how things were going to be and not playing along with your little comic book world of "cosmic justice ...

    (We are all going to die, yet few of us live in coffins or light ourselves of fire for no greater reason than it is inevitable. More disingenuous devaluing of free will via vacuous circular logic.)

    I don't live in a Dungeons & Dragons world of politics where "the good guys ALWAYS win" and saying they won't makes you a "minion of the Dark Side".

    (That's your classic straw dildo fantasy. How arguing 'not' to pursue prosecuting major criminals was/is never a question of inevitability, but one of supporting ethics and action.)

    Bush will leave office un-impeached...and never suffer any true legal reprocussions.

    (No, that is obviously worded, on your part, as a hope.)

    I don't like it...but I don't like a lot of things in the real world,

    (Then act on it. But your actions are to support non-activity. That totally decimates your argument that you are for the opposite activity. Like being for impeachment before your were/are/will forever be against it. But only for the hsuB/cHeney admin...)

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:42pm

    Good luck with that. Hope you wake up some day.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/24/2008 @ 11:57am

42. Will Clinton voters vote for Obama/Biden? Those that believe that life begins at conception and that the earth is flat are not. They were never going to vote for Clinton in any case.

    Posted by lachatte at 08/24/2008 @ 7:31pm

43. ZERO,

    I disagree with you in this respect, Joe Biden registered the same level of support that Mike Gravel had, a 70s Senator from Alaska. Arguably, Obama and Clinton had the most votes and that reflects the choices of the Democratic Electorate during the primary. Clinton supporters have every right to be upset that a candidate that they voted for en masse did not secure a place on the ticket. They also have the right to not vote for Obama as a consequence of that. Will they, maybe not. But the point is no one is OBLIGATED to vote for a specific candidate. They can vote for a candidate of their choosing. For me, that means Cynthia McKinney of the Green Party all the way.

    Posted by POSEIDON at 08/25/2008 @ 02:56am

44. Your holier-than-thou pretentiousness regarding your political purity is more than a little grating.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/24/2008 @ 4:40pm

    No purity here-- just know that if you convince enough people with a lie, it doesn't make it a truth. Motivating people to do nothing about prosecuting a crime and succeeding is worse than motivating people to take action against a crime and losing.

    Very simple truths. No pretending.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/25/2008 @ 09:26am

45. BTW, great offense at attacking holier-than-thou pretentiousness by sounding holier-than-thou pretentious.

    Went over real well.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/25/2008 @ 09:29am

46. Before you get to impeachment you have to know you can convince the American People that he lied.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/24/2008 @ 8:47pm

    Polls showed more people believed that hsuB/cHeney should've been impeach if evidence showed he did than believed Nixon should've been before the Watergate hearings. Problem was that a corrupt perv infested new con repub congress was in the majority (remember for 12 long pervy sick years) and they were all lock step with the petty dic'tatorship we currently have. Now the gestapo DoJ is firmly there too.

    Your logic and cherry picked history has holes big enough for a mack truck fleet to drive through.

    It does however work on dumbed-down new con repub dic'tatorship followers.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/25/2008 @ 09:41am

47. er, Polls showed more people believed that hsuB/cHeney 'should be impeached' if evidence showed he did - than believed Nixon should've been before the Watergate hearings.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/25/2008 @ 09:43am