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RedditDENVER -- And the winner is: Joe Biden.
It did not take a newfangled text message, just an old-fashioned leak, to identify Barack Obama's running mate.
Word of the Biden selection spread late Friday night, barely twelve hours before the event in Springfield, Illinois, at which the presumptive Democratic nominee for president was set to introduce the presumptive Democratic nominee for vice president.
Ultimately, Obama went with the guy who suggested most pointedly during the race for the Democratic nomination that Obama was not quite experienced enough for the presidency.
It was Biden who suggested in an August, 2007, debate that, "I think (Obama) can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training."
Challenged on that statement, the senator said he stood by it.
Expect to see those comments featured in an ad for Republican John McCain. (At 1:22 a.m. EST, the Republican's campaign released a statement that to theeffect that, "There has been no harsher critic of Barack Obama's lack of experience than Joe Biden. Biden has denounced Barack Obama's poor foreign policy judgment and has strongly argued in his own words what Americans are quickly realizing -- that Barack Obama is not ready to be President.")
But don't expect McCain's attempts to use Biden against Obama to do much damage.
Democrats, and ultimately Americans, should be able to reconcile themselves to the fact of a No. 2 who suggested Obama was not ready to be No. 1.
How? By recognizing that in the modern era political-party tickets really do blend into a whole.
For all the silly talk about vice-presidential nominees being irrelevant, the truth is that they have always mattered -- either to party unity or to the broader electorate.
Presidential and vice presidential candidates run as a team, complementing one another and guarding against the vulnerabilities of their running mates.
Obama tried to suggest that the 2008 race was a contest between his judgment and John McCain's experience.
But that sounded a little too much like Democrat Michael Dukakis peddling the notion that his 1988 race with Republican George Herbert Walker Bush was all about assessing the relative competence of the contenders. That line didn't work in 1988 and it wasn't working in 2008.
With a new Cold War in the offering and a host of global conflicts and challenges brewing, Obama really was facing questions about whether he was ready. He needed some foreign-policy muscle. That knocked out contenders who might have complemented Obama's "Change We Can Believe In" campaign theme, such as Virginian Governor Tim Kaine.
It is true that Obama might also have gotten what he needed by adding New York Senator Hillary Clinton to his ticket, just as it is true that Obama might have been able to run with Clinton. But he could not run with Bill Clinton, and that was that.
So Obama was left with Biden. And that made for an acceptable, perhaps even satisfying conclusion to the great veep search.
For all of Biden's imperfections -- a charge of political plagiarism twenty years ago, a reputation for verbosity, a record of gaffes and a wrong vote to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq -- the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee gives Obama what he needs.
And there is the added bonus that Biden loves politics. He enjoys the sport of it. He's good on the stump. He's good in the debates -- indeed, when he was competing for the nomination, Biden won several of the debates. And he's comfortable campaigning in industrial cities and rural regions.
After a weak mid-summer performance by Obama, the scale was tipping McCain's way.
But when Joe Biden takes Barack Obama's side, the scale may well tip back in a Democratic direction.
Biden may not have been the perfect choice.
He may not even have been the preferred choice.
But he was, at least to Obama's view, the necessary choice.
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POLITICAL HURDLES
NEWSWIRE--Barack Obama has selected U.S. Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware as his intended vice-presidential ticket-mate.
Using track as a guide, Judge the running mate's stride As he sprints between north and deep south:
Can he dash down a phrase, Trot it out where it pays, Yet avoid running off at the mouth?
www.newsandverse.com Light verse, ripped from the headlines
Posted by newsandverse at 08/23/2008 @ 02:11am
"The Democratic candidate needed foreign-policy muscle. He found it in a senior senator."
no,
more foreign-policy "muscle" is not needed.
less foreign-policy "muscle" is needed.
(especially between the ears.)
and i can give you ten trillion reasons why.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 02:11am
Biden may not have been the perfect choice.
He may not even have been the preferred choice.
But he was the necessary choice.
posted by John Nichols on 08/23/2008 @ 01:59am
I have a slight feeling there will be some disagreement with his choice here on the blog.
But at least all the speculation and WAGs are over.
Let the griping begin!
Posted by Benchrest at 08/23/2008 @ 02:16am
I love this selection. Biden is as authentic as Obama. He has a lifetime of advocating for "little people" and has been rock solid in the realm of Democratic values. He has articulate "sharp elbows" which I believe will compliment Obama. And that is really my argument, they compliment each other. Obama embraces difference and though Biden came back at Obama during the presidential primaries, he did not sling venom. He played fair. When be bowed out he did not whine and moan and threat and strive to stir up strife. He accepted the judgment of the American people and did not dismiss those people that did not vote for him.
I'm sorry, but Clinton put herself in the position of not being a viable option. She suggested assassination as a reason to stay in the race even though she did not have a chance in hell to win at that point; she suggested McCain was better qualified; she consistently demeaned those good Americans, like myself, who went and caucused for our candidate. To Clinton, Obama supporters were misled, immature, drinking the kool-aid, etc...
Biden fought for the nomination, but was graceful when he knew the odds were against him. Biden did not feel he was entitled to the POTUS.
I'm thrilled and my fingers are primed to fight for our candidates and fight for the integrity of America!
Obama/Biden '08
Posted by PrairieDeb at 08/23/2008 @ 03:45am
"less foreign-policy "muscle" is needed.
(especially between the ears.)"
and i can give you ten trillion reasons why.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 02:11am
We could sure use that muscle in the mouth though. Biden's got it going on there.
I can't wait to say Bye-Bye to the Clintons.
Posted by PrairieDeb at 08/23/2008 @ 03:52am
"and i can give you ten trillion reasons why."
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 02:11am
Ten trillion is quite a few FZ.
I prefer a little cynicism, like this choice is an admission by Obama that he does lack not only foreign policy experience but "old" as well.
One thing about this sort of change Americans (who else would) can believe in is that young Biden at 65 might cark it before Grandpa does. I suppose that could be called an irrevocable change we could all believe in.
Posted by lrjones4 at 08/23/2008 @ 04:09am
A good choice considering the alternatives floated.....and past mistakes like Edwards and Lieberman.
Biden's a fighter, maybe more so than Obama and certainly more than John Edwards who made a ass of himself kissing up to Dick Cheney. Some attorney, I didn't think it was possible to make Cheney look intelligent but both Lieberman and Edwards lost the debate with ol' Dick, imo. I don't think Biden would have.
Posted by datadave at 08/23/2008 @ 04:27am
I just hope Biden can someday put a period at the end of a sentence.
Posted by skeletonman at 08/23/2008 @ 06:11am
How many votes/EC delegates will Biden attract that Obama wouldn't otherwise get?
The bigot bloc?
Hardly.
That vast number of votes & EC delegates resident in Delaware?
A weak choice. A poor start.
Posted by sloper at 08/23/2008 @ 06:57am
The editors best go back and purge all negative comments posted on this site in the past few months!
Posted by bleedingheart at 08/23/2008 @ 07:00am
(to clarify)
negative comments about BIDEN
Posted by bleedingheart at 08/23/2008 @ 07:02am
Not to mention the TV ads McC is now running in the battleground states ... Biden saying Obama is unprepared & that he, Biden, would be willing to run as McC's VP, that's how highly he thinks of McC.
The GOP gods are roaring with delight.
Romney may be getting out his checkbook at this moment, preparing to write that $20 million check to cover his VP campaign expenses. And dreaming, with at least fair to good reason, of his turn in the Oval Office.
Biden may be Obama's fatal mistake ... & one is only allowed one deadly error.
As the rest of US pay dearly.
Posted by sloper at 08/23/2008 @ 07:12am
It took Michael Moore to acknowledge that this campaign is an historic first not just for African-amercians, but for women. And that a sure way to lose this election is for democrats to ignore this phenomena.
It feels like the abolitionists who turned their back on woman's suffrage in the 19th century history repeating itself. Or the '60's radicals who let women do all the hoof work, but couldn't share the stage with one.
John Nichols, too, has missed the significance of how women feel/felt in this race in his analysis of the veep stakes. And, apparently, so did Obama. I'm no Hillary supporter, but this isn't a ticket that's generates excitement.
Posted by Kafwood at 08/23/2008 @ 07:26am
One of the largest reasons for not voting Hillary in the primary was that she voted to give Bush war in Iraq. It was the biggest symbol we were shown as to her "bad judgement", that she wasn't the right change, she was old politics. We could never vote for someone who had been silly enough to give that authorization!
So here we are.
Posted by davefoley0 at 08/23/2008 @ 08:35am
Oh, and it only takes rese's posts for me to tell I am not logged in. Log in, and poof!, threads shrink to 10% the size.
Posted by davefoley0 at 08/23/2008 @ 08:37am
Nobody really cares about the vice-president in terms of electing someone for president. The key thing with Biden, for good or ill (I say good as far as entertainment goes) is that he can go on the offensive while Obama remains in above-it-all mode. Who cares if he talks too much? What he'll talk about, mostly that McCain is a fool, is what will make the news. And there isn't much that he need talk about as McCain with all his houses and not remembering how many not only has another strike against him as being on the downside of having a working brain, but has lost the whole elitism argument. All he has left is that like Bush he can make lots of threats about blowing shit up, but not doing anything beyond that. American know-how at work.
Posted by onthehelm at 08/23/2008 @ 09:33am
I think that at this point, Obama has to feel pretty good today but there is a lot of work to be done to get Hillary's suporters. It remains to be seen whether or not the Clinton speeches at the convention can meet that end. if they don't, we'll be saying President McCain.----Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 09:59am
That's the most ODDLY objective analysis you've made in months.
Could it be FRANK that you're getting a bit tired of being on the Dark Side of the Force and willing to "just let HER go" and come back to the Light???
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:05am
BTW, here's what you'll hear from the Right now...
"Biden-plagiarism"
and
"Biden called Obama 'clean'"
Both are lame...so be prepared to hear them over and over and over and over and over.
heheh
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:06am
Ohhhhhh, I get it now.
"Obama didn't pick Biden, Caroline Kennedy did!"????
cute!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:13am
Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 10:14am
Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 10:16am
Yeah, starting to form up now, FRANK.
Your "plan", that is. Claim that Obama is "not about change" (what best helps him against McCain)....claim "Biden will be running the show, not Obama...just like Cheney tells Bush what to do"...
and claim that Obama "didn't pick Biden, his 'committee' did" (another ref to Bush).
Nice try, but it ain't going to work. First, unlike Cheneny, Biden won't be basically directing foreign policy.
Second, the President sets the tone of his Administration, and no matter how you cut it, it WILL be "change"...from "four more years" with McCain.
Third, so "the committee picks the Veep and the Candidate says 'okay'"? Yes in the sense that the Candidate can ALSO say "Nope, pick again". YOU try to make it seem as if they come forwards with their selection and Obama says "Oh, okay..whatever you say!"
Again, won't fly.
BTW, next up is McCain. Question is, how will he FOLLOW Obama's lead on Veeps? A blatent attempt at wooing women? (Palin?) or somebody "young and inexperienced" (and cut into his own argument against Obama)
or please, please, please...let it be Romney!!!!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:24am
Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 10:21am
Yesssssss, FRANK, sure.
Obama "being led around by the Kennedys"....we get it now!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:24am
Let the griping begin! Posted by Benchrest at 08/23/2008 @ 02:16am
UGH!
Biden: Pro-war
Member : Subcommittee on Antitrust Competition Policy and Consumer Rights, have we seen ANY Anti-Trust work in the last 15 years? Do consumers have rights anymore?
Subcommittee on Crime and Drugs, (Chairman): We have more drug offenders in jail than any other criminals. Has this solved crime or drug issues?
tied at the hip to credit card companies, voted for Bush's bankruptcy bill.
"Change"?
Bad choice.
Uncle Ralph looks even better today than he did yesterday.
(Bench, where do you live, I want to steer you to some real beers from your local. Sam Adams.... you can do better. Much like O and his VP pick!)
Posted by crabwalk at 08/23/2008 @ 10:36am
1995
RECOUPMENT FEES
The subsidy in question is the elimination of a program that requires defense contractors to repay the government for some of the money taxpayers have invested in these corporations. The "recoupment fee" is intended to "recoup" some of the $30 billion annually the federal government has paid these defense contractors just for the research and development of major weapons systems to be used by the U.S. military. Because these companies are able to make additional profits by selling the weapons abroad, the U.S. government has -- until now -- argued that these merchants should return some of the government's investment to the taxpayer. The fee averages about 3-5% of the gross price of the contract.
In addition to the elimination of recoupment fees, industry has also been pushing to consolidate its control over the research and development packages of weapons systems even further. According to industry lawyers, there are currently high-level meetings taking place in the Pentagon, where policy-makers are considering giving industry complete control of the weapons' "technical data packages", even when the government has fully subsidized the cost of research and development. This is forbidden in most other sectors of the federal government.
Initial efforts to repeal the recoupment fee in the Senate have stalled. Senator Biden (D-DE) is leading the charge to block efforts when they return, as expected, in late 1995.
Source:http://www.pogo.org/p/defense/da-950901-arms.html
Posted by crabwalk at 08/23/2008 @ 10:43am
"But when Joe Biden takes Barack Obama's side, the scale may well tip back in a Democratic direction."
posted by JOHN NICHOLS on 08/23/2008 @ 01:59am
Speaking of a scale, the ticket is actually a lot lighter now; in lots of ways.
As stated-- no Bill Clinton muddying it all up for one.
Biden removes the burden of a VP pick for another.
BUT ok, so I would have much preferred an Al Gore pick, but I like Joe Biden too.
Although Biden's a lot lighter 'political' pick than a Gore would have been, I see where Obama would consider the advantage of not going the co-presidency route; no loss to his own power via sweetening the pot to snag Gore. And more importantly-- our constitution is, after all, in tatters and Biden can help there. Not that Gore wouldn't have helped too but adding the complexity of codifying a co-presidency to the constitution when it's been broken, is like adding a brand new and improved transmission to a car that's in need of a new battery, spark plugs, oil,... Ok, I get that.
And there are lots of positives. Joe Biden is a better speaker than Bill, er, that's Bill Richardson, who also has a great resume. But could Richardson have helped Obama as much with fixing our constitution? Foreign policy sure, our constitution, not as much.
Sure each of the prospective VP's had their qualifiers, but Biden does add a well liked and laid back quality too, that fits well with Obama's.
Finally, given a choice, would Al Gore as a co-president, put his energy into reviving/revising our constitution, cleaning up the DoJ, prosecuting 'the most flagrant constitutional criminal violations or on global warming? Yeah ok, so I'm sure Al and Barack saw that coming a mile away too.
So Obama/Biden '08 it is.
Still can't wait to see how Al Gore fits into all this.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:45am
CRABWALK '08
-- Trust a Crustacean to Keep America Safe! --
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 10:46am
eureka!
riddled solved.
hsubfools IS al gore.
that explains everything.
(hey, mr. gore, did you really buy a mega-houseboat, the s.s. bacon?)
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 10:54am
hey crabs,
<<<<<>>>>>
Missile defense backers now cite Russia threat
By DESMOND BUTLER – 6 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. outrage over Russia's invasion of Georgia could prompt Congress to speed up plans for a missile defense system in eastern Europe.
As missile defense proponents push congressional Democrats to drop funding restrictions, however, they appear to be bolstering an argument made repeatedly by Moscow and rejected by Washington: that the true target of the system is Russia.
<<<<<>>>>>
ta da!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 10:57am
If elected, this will be the second Presidency that will by-and-large be run by the Vice president.
Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 10:14am
No Obama made it perfectly clear when he said that he would never 'not' know what his VP was up too and let 'him' do whatever with the 'energy' or was that the 'environment' policy... like cHeney does.
I can see Obama with lots of advisors and then with just his VP to come up with the correct judgement. And that is what we're needing in a pres-- judgement.
Oh and well adherence to the rule of law would be new and extremely helpful...
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 11:03am
(hey, mr. gore, did you really buy a mega-houseboat, the s.s. bacon?)
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 10:54am
(Nope.)
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 11:13am
wrinkly old dude
Posted by edward full at 08/23/2008 @ 11:41am
wrinkly old dude
Posted by edward full at 08/23/2008 @ 11:41am
Well, he could'a had an Al Gore...
Life's never a sure thing.
A lot of corporations never pay taxes.
And the new con repub dic'tatorship followers won't die out no matter what disaster the hsuB/cHeney/McPOW admin continue to bring to our nation...
Weird huh!?!?!
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 11:42am
Still can't wait to see how Al Gore fits into all this.---Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:45am
He doesn't.
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 11:57am
This is a great day!
Obama on the one hand chose someone who at least knows what they are doing in case he is elected. That is good for all of us.
On the other hand, we conservatives and Republicans are excited about this choice.
Now we know that Obama, the "change candidate" who said that he wanted to change the status quo in Washington from those who have been entrenched there in partisan politics for too long; simply meant he wants to be in charge of the status quo partisan politics with this pick.
I love it and we will have a field day with Biden and this obvious contradiction from Obama.
And for Mask. I think this increases the chances for Huckabee. He would be a very good counter to Biden. He can go toe to toe in debate with Biden. He can cement Evangelical support. He keeps Blue Collar workers in play against the Biden angle.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:02pm
Still can't wait to see how Al Gore fits into all this.---Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 10:45am
He doesn't.
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 11:57am
Are you saying Obama has no pull?
Obama has stated he wanted Al in a very senior position in his admin.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:24pm
McPOW is sooo flawed, Obama is still more worried about Billary at the convention.
Bet after the convention McPOW gets hit so many times from every direction that McPOW will look like a very old punch drunk fighter, documented just muttering more nonsense constantly-- rather than just frequently.
Thousands of Utubes will sub McPOW's words onto Simpson's Gramps.
He'll be a running joke-- literally.
Poor old guy.
McPOW should bow out now gracefully to his or her multiple mansions where he can make up more conversations with Mother Teresa.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:37pm
I don't think McPOW could even find his own multiple mansions if left alone.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:41pm
hey Bushfools,
other than Mask, does anybody here ever respond anymore to your nonsense?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:42pm
other than Mask, does anybody here ever respond anymore to your nonsense?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:42pm
Yeah. And to my non-nonsense too.
And obviously I touched a nerve as you just did.
But what I post isn't meant to be responded to necessarily; it's my opinion at the time.
You know, the whole free speech thing.
Besides sometimes I'm way too busy to post or reply again if someone does happen to reply to me; so it's not expected.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 12:57pm
Maybe he should give a walking tour of ALGORES many enviromental mansions,...buy himself a carbon indulgence from ALGORE..
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 12:49pm
Unfortunately, last I heard Al wasn't on the ticket.
And I do continue to find it weird how dic'tator love'n new con repub follower types act as though Al Gore is/was always on the licket...
Just like seeing that continue.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:03pm
The last thing this country and the world need is a new cold war. My fear is that Biden is of the "realist" school of foreign policy that sees rivals as adversaries. In turn, adversaries frequently come to be seen as enemies, especially by those who think it is a good idea to pour our nation's wealth down the drain that is the war machine. Biden's past support for the Iraq War suggests that he may have those tendencies. I hope that I am wrong and that Obama will chart a course away from adversarial confrontation.
Posted by robgo2 at 08/23/2008 @ 1:20pm
my dictator?
...so when McCain enters, Bush win leave.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 1:18pm
Gestapo DoJ,
unitary exec,
no-bid corporate big oil/MIC take over of our gov,
middle class, health, infrastructure and education eroded for corporate and wealthy profit,
and McPOWdon'tknowhowmanyMANSIONS to continue the process.
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 1:26pm
And for Mask. I think this increases the chances for Huckabee. He would be a very good counter to Biden. He can go toe to toe in debate with Biden. He can cement Evangelical support. He keeps Blue Collar workers in play against the Biden angle.-----Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:02pm
The Incredible Huck?
Who said "I may not be the expert as some people on foreign policy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night."-----Associated Press. Retrieved on 2007-12-15???????????
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 1:32pm
Obama's Got Mo' Joe!
Posted by HunterGatherer at 08/23/2008 @ 1:33pm
We rejected Sen. Clinton because of her vote to authorize the war, but Biden's yes vote is somehow okay? Not only did he vote for the iraq war, he also voted for the infamous bankruptcy bill. Why is a good thing that Obama selected him?
Posted by penguins1 at 08/23/2008 @ 1:42pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:02pm
LVL I think Huck carries too much baggage that loses the center. Huckabee SPOKE at the CofCC once and almost twice. He cements the evangelicals but scares the moderates. He's too religious for moderates.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 1:59pm
Why is a good thing that Obama selected him? Posted by penguins1 at 08/23/2008 @ 1:42pm |
It isn't.
The "thinking" is that Biden will attract working class Catholics, in battleground states like PA, who otherwise wouldn't vote for "a colored."
They still won't.
But Hispanics would have, if Obama had chosen Richardson.
Go on. A niggah & a spic? Surely, you're not serious.
Si, a stronger chance.
So now we have to rely, not on Dem strengths, but on McC's weaknesses.
Start praying, all you progressives.
Because US may get screwed again.
Posted by sloper at 08/23/2008 @ 2:04pm
other than Mask, does anybody here ever respond anymore to your nonsense?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:42pm
besides the waiting for goredot,
mr. hsubfools is WAY more lucid than you.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:12pm
other than Mask, does anybody here ever respond anymore to your nonsense?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:42pm
wait a second,
you're waiting for godot, too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:13pm
other than Mask, does anybody here ever respond anymore to your nonsense?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:42pm
wait a second,
you're waiting for godot, too.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:14pm
Dumb, dumb, dumb move!
Talk about taking the bait?
You can't run a "change we can believe in" campaign with the status quo on the ticket.
Obama fell for the mainstream press narrative that "Obama needs a VP with foreign policy muscle" to shore up his "weakness" in this area, when upon closer examination, this was all orchestrated by the Georgia invasion of South Ossetia by a Georgia president who is controlled by right-wing Israeli Jews. Israel, like American and British oil companies, have a financial interest in having the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia protected by NATO forces.
Big oil and the Israeli lobby essentially forced Obama to pick Biden through the timing of the Georgia invasion.
The problem is despite Biden's foreign policy "experience", he doesn't seem to have a clue as to how to avoid a new Cold War and bring Russia into our sphere as a partner as opposed to a re-constituted foe.
If Obama needed an experienced LBJ-type in the White House, he should have tapped such a person as his Chief of Staff, like Clinton did with Leon Panetta or Reagan with Howard Baker.
Now Obama runs the risk of having to change his "change we can believe in" message, jeopardizing the youth vote and new voters that thought they were voting for change from Washington politics as usual. And with a close race, he can NOT afford to lose these voters.
And women voters are left with nothing with the Biden choice, and they are also critical to Obama's success in November.
Obama simply got faked out of his first choice (Kathleen Sebelius) by political forces that oppose his rise to the presidency. He should have been smart enough to see who was behind the Georgia invasion and whether those interests coincide with his own.
This may be the end for an Obama presidency.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:14pm
hiccup!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:15pm
I feel bad for McCain. Obama has stayed above the fray to keep his hands clean. Now Obama has an attack dog. Now he can slap McCain across the face repeatedly and still stay above the fray himself.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 2:15pm
I think this increases the chances for Huckabee. He would be a very good counter to Biden. He can go toe to toe in debate with Biden. He can cement Evangelical support. He keeps Blue Collar workers in play against the Biden angle.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:02pm
mike huckabee is an very uninformed, to put it nicely.
he thinks canada has a national igloo.
you're right, he's the perfect choice.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:17pm
I think this increases the chances for Huckabee. He would be a very good counter to Biden. He can go toe to toe in debate with Biden. He can cement Evangelical support. He keeps Blue Collar workers in play against the Biden angle.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/23/2008 @ 12:02pm
larry,
you're violent and troubling, yet i can see that you aren't dumb either.
how you can want someone so troublingly troubling in your government (which is my and almost everybody else's de facto government) is incongruent.
you want church, go to church.
you want "leadership", find smart people.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:20pm
This may be the end for an Obama presidency.-----Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:14pm
Just because he didn't pick who YOU said "definitely would be it"???
ROFLMAO!
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:21pm
You must not read my post
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 1:18pm
thank god.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/23/2008 @ 2:22pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 2:21pm
Biden just doesn't make sense politically.
The blue-collar white male in Appalachia is NOT going to vote for Obama regardless of who he puts on the ticket because they are RACISTS!
A smart politician just writes these voters off, and builds a winning coalition without them.
Non-racist white men + 50% hispanics + blacks + youth + women = Democratic victory.
Obama has undermined this formula for victory by picking Joe Biden as his running mate.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:28pm
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:28pm
No he hasn't. He picked someone with foreign chops. He picked exactly the RIGHT person. It was only ever going to be Biden or Clinton. Clinton carries a lot more baggage than Biden.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 2:38pm
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:28pm
Sebelius wasn't a choice. Sebelius would have PISSED off Clinton supporters. He would have lost votes with her not gained them.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 2:40pm
I am a little leery of him on foreign policy. He voted for the Iraq war, and he seems to think we can do a better job of fixing Iraq than the Iraqis. I do not like "missionary" foreign policies. they have too many unforeseen consequences.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 08/23/2008 @ 2:48pm
Obama has undermined this formula for victory by picking Joe Biden as his running mate.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:28pm |
Now now, even I-- that really wanted Al Gore in that spot, and am of multi-racial background, is willing to see this play out.
The most I can tell about Joe Biden, all things considered, that I can consider and have, is that he's a pretty 'neutral' choice.
And may even bring in some geriatric-types from McPOWhowmanyMANSIONS...
Posted by hsuBfools at 08/23/2008 @ 2:55pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 2:40pm
He would NOT have lost votes with Sebelius once women voters got to know her.
She has 10 times the political skill as Hillary, and would have been much more effective at bringing moderate Republican women into the fold.
Picking Biden clearly was a mistake by Obama, and the Repubs are wasting no time exploiting this mistake.
You just can't run a "change we can believe in" campaign and put a Washington insider on your ticket. It undercuts your ability to criticize McCain and you lose the youth vote and new voters that really thought you were going to change things.
A VERY dumb and potentially fatal mistake by Obama!
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:58pm
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 2:28pm |
METTE the Conspiracy Nut returns. "Big Oil and Jews made Obama pick Biden"!??!??
You aren't going to go FRANK on us are you???
heheh
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:00pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 3:00pm
Israel's Dog in the fight in the Georgian War By MEL FRYKBERG (Middle East Times) Published: August 18, 2008 A Georgian government minister has claimed that a small group of Georgian troops was able to wipe-out an entire Russian military division, thanks to their Israeli military training. The image shows Georgians looting a burnt Russian tank on the outskirts of Gory in Georgia. (Newscom)
JERUSALEM -- Israel was considering last weekend to suspend all further military shipments to embattled Georgia, fearing possible retaliation with Russia which is on good terms with two of the Jewish state's arch enemies in the region, Syria and Iran.
At the same time, approximately 200 Israeli-Georgians protested outside the American Embassy in Tel Aviv urging the United States to take stronger action against Russia's military intervention in Georgia and the breakaway enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
But the large Jewish-Georgian community in Israel was not the only group with a dog in the fight as the war between Georgia and Russia appeared to be intensifying, despite intensive diplomatic mediation by U.S. and European diplomats, urging both the Russian and Georgian leadership to implement a ceasefire.
Israel has been involved in both training and arming the Georgian military for a number of years and the fears within Israel's military establishment was that Russia, which already supplies arms to both Syria and Iran, could well decide to increase the quantity and quality of these supplies.
Israel's immediate concern is that Russia will proceed with the sale of the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system to Iran, which would help Iran defend its nuclear installations from aerial attack.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 3:10pm
This would be particularly problematic if Israel decides to carry out a preemptive raid on Iran's nuclear facilities as it has been threatening to do for months now.
Israel's military complex has supplied Georgia with some $200 million worth of equipment since 2000. This has comprised rockets, night-vision communications and intelligence surveillance equipment, including Skylark mini-drones and Hermes 450 unmanned aerial vehicles. Israel also upgraded Georgia's Su-25 ground attack fighters.
A Russian jet shot down an Israeli-made drone being operated by the Georgians earlier this year.
The mayor of Tel Aviv, Ronnie Milo and his brother Shlomo (a former director-general of Israel Military Industries), were key players in the Georgian arms sales while senior IDF officers, including Maj. Gen. Israel Ziv and Brig. Gen. Gal Hirsch, were directly involved in training Georgian army infantry battalions.
Hirsch, who was a senior commander in the 2006 Lebanon war, served in an advisory capacity.
One of the Israeli advisers to the Georgian military, who wished to remain anonymous, had befriended some of the Georgian soldiers during his time there and was invited to some of their homes for dinner. He told the Israeli daily Haaretz: "We have their phone numbers, but we haven't been able to reach them. These are people we know and we are all hoping for their success,"
Meanwhile, other Israeli trainers are trying to glean from news reports on the movements of the Georgian army whether their trainees succeeded in internalizing Israeli military techniques.
Two key Georgian ministers are Jewish and fluent in Hebrew. The Georgian Defense Minister Davit Kezerashvili, 30, once lived in Israel after he immigrated to the country as a boy before eventually returning to Georgia.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 3:12pm
Georgian Minister of Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili praised the Israel Defense Forces for its role in training Georgian troops and said Israel should be pleased with its military might, during an interview with Israeli Army Radio.
"Israel should be proud of its military which trained Georgian soldiers," Yakobashvili stated in fluent Hebrew.
He added that this training provided Georgia with the know-how needed to defend itself against Russian forces as he explained how a small group of Georgian soldiers had been able to wipe out an entire Russian military division due to the training, despite the inferiority of Georgia's defense forces when compared to Russia's.
"We killed 60 Russian soldiers," said Yakobashvili last week. "The Russians have lost more than 50 tanks, and we have shot down 11 of their planes. They have sustained enormous damage in terms of manpower."
However, Israeli ties to Georgia go further than the arms trade and military training business. Another Israeli interest in Georgia has revolved around the rich oil and gas deposits in the region.
Jerusalem is keen to see the Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network after Russia turned down a previous Israeli request.
To this end intense negotiations are currently underway between Israel, Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and onward to Israel's oil terminal at Ashkelon and to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.
Finally, Israel works hard to increase the number of Jews immigrating to the country in an effort to lessen the "threat" of a demographic time-bomb which sees Israeli-Arabs and Palestinians in East Jerusalem
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 3:13pm
with their higher birth rate as a possible threat to Jewish majority.
To this end the Jewish Agency, which arranges immigration, has organized flights into Georgia to evacuate Jews trapped in the cities as fighting intensifies. Indeed, Israel's national airline El Al was practically the only airline to fly into Georgia's capital Tbilisi after other flights were suspended or grounded.
Several hundred Jews were subsequently evacuated to Israel as new immigrants.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 3:13pm
Conspiracy theory or POLITICS AS USUAL?
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 3:15pm
Yay! More competent management of a rapacious and bloodthirsty empire! (to paraphrase Alexander Cockburn)
Posted by masussman at 08/23/2008 @ 3:27pm
METTEY, are you saying "even Obama" can't overcome the "International Jewish Conspiracy" and they have forced him to take a Veep that's going to cost him the election?
or that he's too stupid to realize it?
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 9:29pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 9:29pm
MASK,
We are talking about a VERY small number of right-wing Jews that have asserted direct control of the Israeli government and indirect control of the US government through AIPAC and their operatives.
The point of the story in my above post from the Mideast Times is to show this same group of right-wing Jewish characters have influence over Georgia's government as well, and have a financial interest in the oil pipeline that runs through Georgia.
It appears that NATO membership for Georgia is being pushed by these right-wing Jews to secure this source of oil for their country.
Is Obama smart enough to realize that this small influential group could have influenced Georgia to invade South Ossetia to change the focus of the US presidential election to "foreign policy" rather than the economy?
I think he may well be smart enough, but has decided he can do nothing about it.
And that is the sad part, because it means "NO change we can believe in", and more of the same politics as usual in which small influential group of right-wing Jews continue to hijack US foreign policy for their own selfish pursuits.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 10:36pm
Posted by Metteyya at 08/23/2008 @ 10:36pm
So Obama...once your greatest idol, going to change everything, "Reaganize" the country to the Left...is now a "powerless pawn of the International Jewish Conspiracy"?
All because he didn't pick the Veep YOU wanted (or is it that he didn't pick the one you ASSSURED us it would be...and he embarassed you into this George Lincoln Rockwell return of "Jews, man, it's those 'few' JEWS who got Arsenio fired, that are going to kill Obama's chances!!!")?
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:47pm
alexander cockburn, in CounterPunch Diary: http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn08232008.html
. . . Senator Biden - ripely symbolic of everything . . . unchanging and hopeless about our political system . . .
The first duty of any senator from Delaware is-- do the bidding of the banks and large corporations which use the tiny state as a drop box and legal sanctuary. Biden has never failed his masters in this primary task. Find any bill that sticks it to the ordinary folk on behalf of the Money Power and you'll likely detect Biden's hand at work. The bankruptcy act of 2005 was just one sample. In concert with his fellow corporate serf, Senator Tom Carper, Biden blocked all efforts to hinder bankrupt corporations from fleeing from their real locations to the legal sanctuary of Delaware. Since Obama is himself a corporate serf and from day one in the US senate has been attentive to the same masters that employ Biden, the ticket is well balanced, the seesaw with Obama at one end and Biden at the other dead-level on the fulcrum of corporate capital.
Another shining moment - Biden's - conduct in the hearings on Judge Alito's nomination to the US Supreme Court. From the opening moments of the Judiciary Committee's sessions in January, 2006-- Biden blathered out a self-serving and inane monologue lasting a full twenty minutes before he even asked Alito one question [he] rambled for 4,000 words, leaving Alito time only to put together less than 1,000-- [this] revealing confession from Biden . . . "I made a mistake. I should have gone straight to my question. I was trying to put him at ease."
Biden is a notorious flapjaw. His vanity deludes him into believing that every word that drops from his mouth is minted in the golden currency of Pericles.
but- there's more!
Posted by camarada at 08/24/2008 @ 2:19pm
here's more: boffo, bam BIFF! the post just preceding is entirely my abridgement of Cockburn's facts, entire on the cited URL.
here's one more volley from the CounterPunch Diary article, to chasten Nichols for his tiringly mistaken praise, in place of political facts. Just what the "electorate" needs at the moment. I am snide--see in the present Nation feature: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080901/hayden2/print for Tom Hayden's assessment of the urgent political action that is needed just now.
Back to the Cockburn' article, again: "His "experience" in foreign affairs consists in absolute fidelity to the conventions of cold war liberalism, the efficient elder brother of raffish "neo-conservatism". Here again the ticket is well balanced, since Senator Obama has, within a very brief time-frame, exhibited great fidelity to the same creed.
Obama opposed the launching of the US attack on Iraq in 2003. He was not yet in the US Senate, but having arrived there in 2005 he has since voted unhesitatingly for all appropriations of the vast sums required for the war's prosecution. Biden himself voted enthusiastically for the attack, declaring in the Senate debate in October, 2002, in a speech excavated and sent to us by Sam Husseini:
I do not believe this is a rush to war. I believe it is a march to peace and security. I believe that failure to overwhelmingly support this resolution is likely to enhance the prospects that war will occur. ... [Saddam Hussein] possesses chemical and biological weapons and is seeking nuclear weapons. ... For four years now, he has prevented United Nations inspectors from uncovering those weapons... "
thus is Biden reported, via Cockburn's records.
nichols . . . . puh l-e-e-ez-z-e-go away, or say something militant, for crissakes!
Posted by camarada at 08/24/2008 @ 2:34pm
Frankgritz:
I think that the PUMA divide is manufactured by the MSM--period. They could only raise $52,000 dollars. COME ON! All we hear is Clinton's 18 million voters here and 18 million voters there. Hey, if she still had 18 million voters who would each donate 1 dollar, then she would have at least 18 million dollars.
Biden is an awesome choice and a better choice because:
he did not think he was entitled to the nomination
he admitted that voting for the war in Iraq was wrong
he fought fair and did not say that McCain would be a better choice for President
there is NOT A BITTER FORMER PRESIDENT IN THE BACK GROUND!
He is a better choice because when he saw that the VOTERS were headed in a different direction, he did not demean them.
How many times did we have to hear Clinton demean the voters of various states and demographics?
Her whole schpeal was to dis the voters of this country--the voters that voted for Obama. Then she wanted to change the rules she had agreed to.
Biden bowed out gracefully, and I believe he has proven that he would not be a back-stabber.
Clinton did not care how she damaged the Democratic Party. She was not gracious or loyal, Biden was both.
She is backpedaling now; however she basked too long in the attention she gained from these PUMA Posers.
In addition, Biden is an excellent choice, not because he fills some perceived Obama void, but because he has been consistently fighting for the AMERICAN TAX PAYER. His ethos has been one of steadfast commitment to the middleclass while having the audacity to reach across the aisle. This selection typifies Obama's confidence to do the right thing. I am thrilled and I feel that TRUE Democrats will come along.
Posted by PrairieDeb at 08/25/2008 @ 02:49am
prairie deb, you exemplify just what i worry about. you're ignorant of Biden's legislative behavior, i think. It's not that you ignore it; you're truly ignorant--to say, as you do, that he's "fighting for the Merkian Tax Payer! look this very day, NYTimes, Krugman cites the same legislation record i mention in post above, giving you the URL for the details.
with your kind of preparedness and "beliefs" whatever may we hope for from elected legislators!
Biden, as cockburn's article points out, has stuck it to the merkian tax payer, and it needs to be known for the record, and to hold as a predictor of what to expect in futchah! i will grant than senile dementia is not a better kind of puppetry to hope for nodding in the Oval Realm.
Posted by camarada at 08/25/2008 @ 08:34am
Congratulations, John! You've made the Pro-War cheerleading squad for the Demotard Party. Report to Denver and pick up your uniform.
Posted by AlanSmithee at 08/25/2008 @ 10:03am
camarada: "prairie deb, you exemplify just what i worry about."
Yea, I bet you are. When you juxtapose these two candidates you would absolutely worry your corporate-welfare, self-serving interests to death.
What you do not realize is that though I might not know every single vote of Joe Biden, I know that overall this man represents my party and the votes I know came from John McSame not only tells me that he votes against the interests of our beloved veterans, but that he also votes against alternative energy sources, affordable health care, 21st century infrastructure for America, and not only that, he joked about bombing another country.
This is on top of his top economic advisor calling Americans whiners, the fact that he voted against the new and improved GI Bill, the fact that he offered his wife (our potential first lady) to the leering jeers of a bunch of buzzed bikers and exploited women for political gain by connecting them to Obama in an unsavory way, only compounds my assertion that he is utterly unqualified to be POTUS. Period!!
Pleeeeeeeeeze. Whatever. If I believed like you do, I'd be worried to.
Obama/Biden '08
Posted by PrairieDeb at 08/26/2008 @ 03:04am
do you 'willfully' mis-read? my very last sentence was the remark: "i will grant [that] senile dementia is not a better kind of puppetry to hope for nodding in the Oval Realm." Kloo: senile = mcCain, get it?
it is the press, i presume, from whom you get your "belief" stack; however, i suggested two articles with their URLs noted, sources of facts--Tom Hayden and Alexndr Cockburn--on several points, that pretain to Biden congressional legislation, examined for its "representation" of the common man and in Hayden's article, a caution to get the record STRAIGHT, e.g., the record of McCain's complicity in cooking up the conveniently breaking Georgia theme--a conniving that has been months or years in the works-- may serve Republicans, if it's popularly "believed". it may perhaps be their best shot to lob thru the MSM tube, to edify all who are their captive audience, who bow to this influential corporate legitimator--the press, not ever questioning if the 'grist' they're being fed had ever a kernel related to actual facts.
with such an ignorant electorate entertained, it becomes the more frightfully possible that McCain the madcap warrior may crawl straight in to the Oval Realm, surrounded by a retinue of acolytes who've bowed to the schpinne-Meisters--that are the MSM, the organ from whence your "well-meaning and impassioned" beliefs, do come forth, as i suppose--
and i say this because i do genuinely share the fear of the prospect, as Hayden's article speaks of it. He suggests how we may make a popular action to resist these dangers, too.
Posted by camarada at 08/26/2008 @ 09:24am