Protesters are storming Barack Obama's website. But they all support Obama.

A grassroots group of activists has been organizing on MyBo, Obama's official social networking portal, to protest the Senator's recent decision to back controversial legislation granting the President more spying powers. The effort hit a big milestone on Tuesday afternoon: It is now the largest self-organized group on Obama's website, topping networks that were launched over a year ago. The spying protest, "Senator Obama - Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity – Get FISA Right," launched last week. (See Obama Network Organizes and Revolts Over Spying, The Nation.)

Membership spiked to about 8,900 people on Tuesday, edging out a student group with roughly 8,600 members, and one organizer estimated that the growth rate reached a rapid four percent during the daytime. The group initially spread through the Obama network, since the site's platform instantly connects members through a dedicated email listserve. On Monday, for example, over 200 emails shot across the wire, reaching the roughly 2,300 members who opted to receive individual messages. The exchanges ranged from policy debates, like whether immunity was acceptable if the telephone companies acted in good faith, to organizing strategies, such as promoting the group on sharing sites like Digg. Then some activists open-sourced the project, creating a wiki-hub for additional actions -- from calling Obama's office to urging Keith Olbermann to promote the group -- and launched partner groups on other sites like Facebook.

"To reach number one, we're going to need all of us to start talking to - and emailing - their family and friends," wrote blogger Mike Stark in a missive to the group at 3:46am on Monday. "[Obama] said he'd open up government and respond to the people instead of the special interests," he added, "so let's force him to respond." Stark also recruited members at the blog OpenLeft, while the group began drawing traffic from coverage in Wired, The Nation, TPM, Time, and The New York Times.

The effort comes in a pivotal period for Obama, who is tapping his enthusiastic base for fundraising and voter turnout, yet shifting his message to prioritize general election themes. In many Democratic presidential campaigns, this is precisely the time when the base is ignored – or even defied to demonstrate the candidate's independence and "centrism." Obama's base activists, however, are still getting heard. They are reaching each other directly, through the campaign's network, and indirectly, with blogs and reporters covering their argument that Obama should not have backtracked on civil liberties. So far, Obama has not responded substantively, though his campaign was forced to acknowledge the "dialogue" under media prodding. But from the message boards, it looks like most group members want Obama to respond by reaffirming his original opposition to the White House spying bill, not simply acknowledging the conversation.

While Obama's advisers may view this week's activism as inevitable liberal tensions in a general election -- an odd gloss, given the Fourth Amendment's bipartisan credentials -- the key dynamic is the development of a sophisticated network of activists. After all, they're not asking the candidate to be more liberal, they're asking him to hold strong on his own promise to oppose the spying legislation.

Even conservative bloggers are impressed that the Obama Campaign provides an open platform for supporters to organize against the candidate's position. "Rather than react in accordance with the practices of most campaigns by shutting and muffling dissent," observed the GOP blog The Next Right, "Obama is providing dissidents (many of whom are supporters of his) the opportunity to organize on his campaign web-site." The blog contrasted the approach to top-down campaigns on the right. "Can you imagine a Bush campaign reacting like this? I can't."

Netroots activists are imagining -- and demanding -- an even more receptive response from Obama.

Update: A print article in today's New York Times covers the growing impact of this MyBo group, with more reaction from the campaign:

Thousands of [Obama's most ardent supporters] are now using the same grass-roots organizing tools previously mastered by the Obama campaign to organize a protest against his decision. In recent days, more than 7,000 Obama supporters have organized on a social networking site on Mr. Obama's own campaign Web site. They are calling on Mr. Obama to reverse his decision to endorse legislation supported by President Bush to expand the government's domestic spying powers while also providing legal protection to the telecommunication companies that worked with the National Security Agency's domestic wiretapping program after the Sept. 11 attacks... For now, the campaign is trying to put a positive spin on the new FISA fight among its supporters. "The fact that there is an open forum on BarackObama.com where supporters can say whether they agree or disagree speaks to a strength of our campaign," said Bill Burton, a campaign spokesman.

Several activists and bloggers predicted that Mr. Obama's move toward the center on some issues could sharply reduce the intensity of support he has enjoyed from liberal activists. Such enthusiasm helped power his effort to secure the Democratic nomination, and it has been one of his campaign's most important tools for fund-raising and organizing around the country.

Markos Moulitsas, a liberal blogger and founder of the Daily Kos Web site, said he had decided to cut back on the amount of money he would contribute to the Obama campaign because of the FISA reversal. "I will continue to support him," Mr. Moulitsas said in an interview. "But I was going to write him a check, and I decided I would rather put that money with Democrats who will uphold the Constitution."

Comments (47)

1. 8,900 people. 200 e-mails. Woo.

   I'm guessing...not.

   Posted by Benchrest at 07/01/2008 @ 9:28pm

2. I like the demeanor of this article... in that it is not in 'alarmist mode' about Obama's alleged policy 'flip-flops'. Thanks for keeping it calm and civilized. There will be key times when Obama will have to act in ways we 'back seat drivers' don't understand... and since we are so used to Bush's 'style', it is easy for us to slip back into old behaviors.

   Give him some room... but speak out.. not as a tweaked potential ex-pat... but as a concerned citizen that loves this country.

   The main reason, IMHO, that this 'activist group' has only tallied in the low thousands, is because most of us have very little confidence that our voices will be heard, or that a presidential candidate cares about what we are experiencing.

   Expect this to change... by starting with yourself... and tone down the rhetoric. Good ideas need only be mentioned, to be heard...

   Posted by ttr at 07/01/2008 @ 11:17pm

3. Great article. My apologies in not being clearer with the "4%" figure. Here's what I *meant* to say :-)

   We've been tracking both the day-to-day growth, which has been in the 40-100% range, and from time to time the hourly growth, which varies from 1% or lower overnight to 4-6% during the middle of the day. a 4% hourly growth rate roughly corresponds to doubling every day, and the fact that we were seeing that kind of growth rate this afternoon implies that we have the potential to grow a lot larger. [There's a statistics page on the wiki for those who are into the details.]

   Of course it's very difficult to project at this point how quickly things will continue to grow but a lot of times there's a snowballing effect -- the "power law" that Clay Shirky and others talk about. We shall see.

   In any case, remember that the original goal was to be the largest group on myBO by July 8, when the vote is currently schedule. It seems like we're going to get there before the weekend; that shows there's a lot of pent-up energy on this issue -- and so does ActBlue's fundraising success. It's still to be determined what impact we'll have, but despite the dismissive attitudes of the Benchrests of the world, we have a chance to make a difference.

   jon

   PS: ttr, I agree about toning down the rhetoric, and the skepticism that anybody's listening. But, hokey as it sounds, working together, we *do* have a chance to have our voice heard.

   Posted by JonPincus at 07/02/2008 @ 12:54am

4. Look, I won't give this guy one more DIME while he refuses to support the Constitution! Not to mention, the video is out there showing him PROMISING to filibuster (NOT "support" the filibuster, as his Spinmeisters would have you believe) any bill providing Telecom Immunity.

   What this episode shows is that he is nothing more than Clinton/Bush in new wrapping paper. Government by polling has led us to this Constitutional Crisis. Those who don't recognize it, or actively oppose it, are NOT fit to govern, no matter the party.

   At this point, there is not one iota of difference between McCain and Obama on the singular issue of our time in history. I plan to vote NO in November, until one of them defends the Constitution. (And I view it as particularly egregious that Obama turns out to be closer to Yoo on Constitutional issues than Turley... some Constitutional Law scholar!)

   Posted by sjduskin at 07/02/2008 @ 01:31am

5. Oh, and Ari, we don't "all support Obama" in that group. You're not reading all the posts on that blog... Some of us don't want another Usurper in the White House.

   Posted by sjduskin at 07/02/2008 @ 01:34am

6. This issue will amount to nothing more than another slogan for R68s and 9/11 truthers. The majority of Sen. Obama's supporters, the majority of Americans too, support this legislation. The rapid growth of the MyBO group does not reflect a nascent grassroots movement despite what its authors claim. The notorious paranoid fringe of the internet have simply squatted a open access site.

   Posted by michaeln at 07/02/2008 @ 03:04am

7. Obama is revealing himself to be another Bill Clinton without the private circus.

   Even before he's in the WH, he's already promising to hand out more federal money to religious groups. Pandering, bribery, flaunting the Constitution, again, this is centrist? this is carefully considered policy?

   Doubt it.

   The country needs serious change, Obama tells us, and then promises more of the same bad programs & halfwit policies that got us into our current fiascos at home & abroad.

   Not very promising.

   Posted by sloper at 07/02/2008 @ 03:53am

8. Dear Sloper:

   yup

   Posted by julien38 at 07/02/2008 @ 05:23am

9. Look, I won't give this guy one more DIME while he refuses to support the Constitution!

   Posted by sjduskin at 07/02/2008 @ 01:31am | warn this person

   Maybe Obama is looking to "other sources" for the general?

   Posted by OneVote at 07/02/2008 @ 08:07am

10. Bill Clinton says Barack Obama must 'kiss my ass' for his support By Tim Shipman in Washington and Philip Sherwell in New York Last updated: 8:16 AM BST 30/06/2008

    Telegraph.co.uk

    'Bill Clinton is so bitter about Barack Obama's victory over his wife Hillary that he has told friends the Democratic nominee will have to beg for his wholehearted support.

    Hillary Clinton has put on a united front with Barack ObamaMr Obama is expected to speak to Mr Clinton for the first time since he won the nomination in the next few days, but campaign insiders say that the former president's future campaign role is a "sticking point" in peace talks with Mrs Clinton's aides.

    The Telegraph has learned that the former president's rage is still so great that even loyal allies are shocked by his patronising attitude to Mr Obama, and believe that he risks damaging his own reputation by his intransigence.

    A senior Democrat who worked for Mr Clinton has revealed that he recently told friends Mr Obama could "kiss my ass" in return for his support.'

    Well...maybe Obama has completely sold out as yet.....lol.....

    Posted by OneVote at 07/02/2008 @ 08:20am

11. you weren't listening to Obama's speeches. he sold himself as an accommodating, inclusive figure.

    he's not toeing the imaginary line you have drawn for him, and you are lead to pout.

    Posted by emile duBois at 07/02/2008 @ 09:31am

12. Jeremiah Wright -- National Press Club -- 28 April, 2008

    'We both know that, if Senator Obama did not say what he said, he would never get elected.'

    Posted by HonestLiberal at 07/02/2008 @ 09:48am

13. The only part that isn't in adherence to the 'law' is the civil pass to the telecom's. There is still criminal law that the the telecom's aren't given a pass to as is the hsuB/cHeney admin. However with the current GOP gestapo DoJ created by the petty dic'tatorship that is the hsuB/cHeney admin, little will be done to address this crime and Barack knows it.

    A very simple balancing act to preform for dems. Get elected and then take care of business.

    Another reason Barack needs someone that will adhere to our constitution and has from the very start:

    http://tinyurl.com/6a8beh

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/02/2008 @ 09:50am

14. you weren't listening to Obama's speeches. he sold himself as an accommodating, inclusive figure.

    Posted by emile duBois at 07/02/2008 @ 09:31am | ignore this person | warn this person

    You mean all his campaign promises contained the caveat "I stand for this but I am willing to compromise, and I am willing to compromise before I am even elected President and what I stand for is put to the test"?

    I think "Yes We Can" has been replaced by "No We Can't" quite frankly. Obama's idea of compromise before he is even elected guarantees that his preelection centrist move will result in change that more appropriately should be characterized as status quo. A reading of the Audacity of Hope, however, would lead to the conclusion that he is the compromise candidate big time. I like the passage where he touts Ted Stevens as a role model of venerable bi-partisanship. Lookout!

    Obama represented himself in this campaign as cheerleader for the people, not his Party. That is why he defeated Clinton. Folks have a right to feel deceived.

    Posted by OneVote at 07/02/2008 @ 10:45am

15. I am happy to see so many involved in their own Democracy. It is important for each of us not to get lost in our feelings when we are disappointed in our Candidate, Obama for going back on his word.

    He has repeatedly said he wants us to challenge him. This people are doing now. This is democracy.

    In the end though we EACH need to remember who the two candidates are. There is no choice here. Regardless of whether he disappoints us by looking less of a CHANGE agent than we'd initially thought, he is a far better choice than the alternative. He will disappoint us. He has asked us to participate in his Presidency and this is a great example of full participation.

    My concern is that the huge grassroots support by so many will be thwarted by the dissent being felt now. If those who came out to support him during the Primaries decide he is "just another politician" which is not true, then we risk a lower than expected turn out in November.

    This we cannot risk. No matter what compromises he makes between now and November he is still our best choice, hands down.

    Remember the old saying "do not throw the baby out with the bath water."

    Dissent is great, pouting and threatening to not support him any more is childish. You win some and you lose some. It's life. We cannot miss this great opportunity to begin a new chapter for America. Obama is still a remarkable, once in a lifetime candidate and we must be careful not to allow our dissent to turn into bitterness.

    Posted by jaquelinp at 07/02/2008 @ 11:32am

16. METTEYYA:

    I like Obama so don't take this the wrong way, but is it too early for me to say, "I told you so?"

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 11:42am

17. "Protesters are storming Barack Obama's website. But they all support Obama."

    Ah, yes, the imbecilically enthusiastic. Do they drool as well?

    Could there be any outcome more predictable that that which is likely to emerge from this jackassity. Do they really think their energies will mean anything to someone who's already rung them out and hung them up to dry? What possible motive would he now have for altering his stance? He already has their votes and their money. All of this was calculated well in advance; Obama knew that there would be wailing and knashing of teeth but he simply doesn't care. For goodness sake, fool, get off the phone and vote for Nader!

    Posted by john lowell at 07/02/2008 @ 12:03pm

18. Nobody should listen to Mr. Lowell.

    He is a fraud. As has been revealed on other threads, for all his talk, he has admitted that he will not cast a vote for Nader this Autumn.

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 12:45pm

19. Nobody should listen to Mr. Lowell.

    He is a fraud. As has been revealed on other threads, for all his talk, he has admitted that he will not cast a vote for Nader this Autumn.

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 12:46pm

20. All the threads have time warps for posting new comments.

    This new site is fast becoming a joke.

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 1:06pm

21. vvvvrrrrrrrroooooooooooommmmmm!!!!!!!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/02/2008 @ 1:15pm

22. i'm actually a tad relieved. until quite recently i have had no problems with anything the guy di or said. now i find myself a tad dissapointed and in some disagreement with barry o.

    the realization that he was too good to be true is perversely comforting to me. humanizing...

    oh well. nobody's perfect indeed...still voting for the guy.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/02/2008 @ 1:19pm

23. To the Obama enablers, I say this - Obama is not Ronald Reagan. Which means he is not condecending to his evangelical supporters. This sh#t is for REAL. Obama's connection to preachers are going to blow it for him since many of them lean way too far-right on many issues. It's bigotry in a pastor's cloak.

    Posted by jimijazz at 07/02/2008 @ 1:30pm

24. To the Obama enablers, I say this - Obama is not Ronald Reagan. Which means he is not condesending to his evangelical supporters. This stuff is for REAL. Obama's connection to preachers are going to blow it for him since many of them lean way too far-right on many issues. It's bigotry in a pastor's cloak.

    Posted by jimijazz at 07/02/2008 @ 1:34pm

25. Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 11:42am

    Bashing Obama at this stage of the game is wrongheaded, and the progressives who are responsible for this need to get a clue.

    If some progressives feel they need to FORCE Obama to "always sound" like a progressive to get their support, they simply do not understand the political climate in America.

    AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO PROGRESSIVE CAN OPENLY SOUND LIKE A PROGRESSIVE AND GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!

    Did you get that?

    The most us progressives can hope for at this point in time is someone like Barack who ACTUALLY IS a progressive, but engages in centrist rhetoric on occasion to not alienate others who may agree with us on particular progressive issues, even though they disagree with us on other progressive issues.

    Republicans are trying to put Barack in the "He won't keep America safe" box, and allowing suspected terrorists' communication to go unmonitored would allow them to put Barack in that box.

    Obama realizes this, and is therefore "talking" forcefully about the need to re-authorize FISA to deal with the terrorist threat, but behind the scenes he is the KEY leader in the senate negotiating a deal to strip telecom immunity and ensure judicial oversight over ALL wiretaps of suspected terrorists.

    Simply doing a Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich maneuver of shouting down the Republicans on FISA will not keep Barack out of the "he won't keep us safe" box.

    Progressives need to be smarter and more sophisticated in understanding this reality, and use all of our energy to bash McCain, not Obama.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 2:00pm

26. All of this was calculated well in advance; Obama knew that there would be wailing and knashing of teeth but he simply doesn't care. For goodness sake, fool, get off the phone and vote for Nader!

    Posted by john lowell at 07/02/2008 @ 12:03pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    A vote consistent with your conscience and beliefs is certainly worthy of exploring and not to be disparaged. I don't see this election as the "no option" but the lesser of two evils, and that Nader is to be viewed as the spoiler. If Obama can't maintain at least a 15% spread going into the general, he doesn't deserve to win. The Democratic Party would sure like us to believe in the "no option" but to vote Obama. I think a strong showing for a candidate outside the political monopoly would be a plus for our so called "democracy."

    Posted by OneVote at 07/02/2008 @ 2:04pm

27. Intellectual property and trade secret thefts are real risks with FISA!

    Do you want Bush Buddies viewing your trade secrets, your bid details, your R & D plans, your intellectual property development or your confidential communications? That's what's happening with FISA.

    Private contractors monitor U.S. Telephone and Internet communications for the government. They operate without any independent oversight, accountability or control.

    Some of these private contractors are corrupt, others have weak internal controls, they ALL have their own profit goals and agendas.

    60-70% of the CIA's National Clandestine budget goes to private contractors. See http://HappinessHacker.com for links to respected resources.

    Security of intellectual property and trade secrets is just as vital to our competitive success in the future as is defeating potential terrorists.

    We need to worry about the Monitors as much as the Terrorists.

    STOP Unlawful Monitoring of U.S. Telephone and Internet Communications NOW!

    ~ Happiness Hacker - HappinessHacker dot com

    Posted by HappinessHacker at 07/02/2008 @ 2:25pm

28. Y'know the awesome part about Obama's candidacy? Without him, no one would have rallied progressives to do anything, they'd be side lined just like every election. However, since he was forced to appear to run to the left of Clinton in the general to beat her, he inspired progressives to get up and take notice. Now that they have taken notice, and now that he's actually made them a meaningful part of his coalition, progressives now feel like they deserve a slice of the pie, and are organizing to fight for it. He still has the progressive support now, how many more betrayals you think he'll get away with? John Kerry could win the progressive vote because he wasn't GW Bush. Obama's "I'm not McBush" rhetoric will fall hollow with an electorate expecting someone who was going to renege on many of Bush's failed policies. His primary supporters could stick him in a bind much like McBush was/is in a bind with evangelical voters. His primary supporters represent over 36 million votes, you can't turn your back on that and expect to win.

    Posted by shadow master at 07/02/2008 @ 2:57pm

29. Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 11:42am

    Bashing Obama at this stage of the game is wrongheaded, and the progressives who are responsible for this need to get a clue.

    If some progressives feel they need to FORCE Obama to "always sound" like a progressive to get their support, they simply do not understand the political climate in America.

    AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO PROGRESSIVE CAN OPENLY SOUND LIKE A PROGRESSIVE ALL THE TIME AND GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!

    Did you get that?

    The most us progressives can hope for at this point in time is someone like Barack who ACTUALLY IS a progressive, but engages in centrist rhetoric on occasion to not alienate others who may agree with us on particular progressive issues, even though they disagree with us on other progressive issues.

    Republicans are trying to put Barack in the "He won't keep America safe" box, and allowing suspected terrorists' communication to go unmonitored would allow them to put Barack in that box.

    Obama realizes this, and is therefore "talking" forcefully about the need to re-authorize FISA to deal with the terrorist threat, but behind the scenes he is the KEY leader in the senate negotiating a deal to strip telecom immunity and ensure judicial oversight over ALL wiretaps of suspected terrorists.

    Simply doing a Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich maneuver of shouting down the Republicans on FISA will not keep Barack out of the "he won't keep us safe" box.

    Progressives need to be smarter and more sophisticated in understanding this reality, and use all of our energy to bash McCain, not Obama.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 4:04pm

30. Ah, yes, the imbecilically enthusiastic. Do they drool as well?

    Posted by john lowell at 07/02/2008 @ 12:03pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    dude's trying to win an election. unlike those who stand no chance to actually win or do anything beyond throw a close contest one way or another as a result of our poorly thought out electoral system, whoever wins will most likely at some point either...

    A) do/say/vote for/opinine openly about some issue that shows he stands more to the center than the average poster at the nation such as myself. so what? i find myself disagreeing with the man on a number of issues (3 or 4) in fact, now that he is indeed running not for the nomination but for the presidency. (on all but one, drilling for new oil, i'm to his left...i guess)

    or he will...

    B) take the obligatory tiptoe on the darkside that all politicians, no matter how decent they are must take because they gotta deal with getting enough of us crazy retarded geniuses of a fairly wide variety of opinions on how things should be done and what "we" even want done to vote for him in november so that he can become president and perhaps, who knows, sometimes good things DO happen...

    eventually more or less move us in the direction we need to go, which without getting too bogged down in messy details and specifics basically means moving as far leftward/competantwise from that goddamned mushmouthed incompetant dimly evil manchurian candidate bad joke of a "president" and anyone remotely positively associated with him and that evil political philosophy of his handlers'...

    bear with me while i repeat a story...

    my much older brother was a public defendant in a smallish southern city for years. the last guy had been a good attorney but terrible accountant/politician. every year brotherman would routinely whine for twice what he thought he really needed to run the office and when he got half of what he whined for went home happy...

    neither you nor i are going to get half of what we REALLY want policywise in four or even eight years if obama is elected. that i guarantee you. not something to boohoo over...

    i'm a pretty good judge of character and i honestly believe obama is a decent and virtuous a chameleonic sociopath can be, because rare indeed is there a great politician who is not some kind of chameleonic sociopath, my friend. Great politicians, i might add, stand a MUCH better chance of getting elected and passing legislation if elected...you understand...

    but maybe i'm wrong, and maybe he's really an indecent chameleonic sociopath, one of the greatest ever...and maybe he's secretly an establishment cad...and perhaps he too is incompetant at anything beyond getting elected...and gosh gee golly maybe he's really a SECRET MUSSELMAN!

    but i don't think so and i'm working for him and voting for him come november and i'm encouraging everyone i meet to do the same and engaging folks in conversations and even trying not to insult them (except online under my pseudonym, of course - thank god for the internet!)...

    and this is the world we live in. incredibly imperfect and populated by all you silly imperfect shaved apes wanting this and that and thinking they know something and thinking they deserve this and that and that if just them damned lying politicians would quit lying to us all the time and promising all the crap we demand them to promise in order to vote for them that somehow we'd all wake up to a happy shiney future of elves and eskimos and be as happy as if we were having sex on a roller coaster forever...

    but that shit just aint happenin guy and i'm ok with that. just as long as the good outweighs the bad by as significant a lead as we can sustain and we shaved apes are moving ourselves in a positive PROGRESSIVE direction...i'll take it.

    GROW UP AND VOTE OBAMA

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/02/2008 @ 4:15pm

31. I am amazed at the amount of trolls on this website. Don't you folks have enough of your own websites to post on? No one cares what you have to say - you are all venal despicable losers.

    I guess the conversation on liberal websites is far more interesting huh???

    Posted by biglover at 07/02/2008 @ 5:00pm

32. Posted by Hman23 at 07/02/2008 @ 11:42am

    Bashing Obama at this stage of the game is wrongheaded, and the progressives who are responsible for this need to get a clue.

    If some progressives feel they need to FORCE Obama to "always sound" like a progressive to get their support, they simply do not understand the political climate in America.

    AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO PROGRESSIVE CAN OPENLY SOUND LIKE A PROGRESSIVE ALL THE TIME AND GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!

    Did you get that?

    The most us progressives can hope for at this point in time is someone like Barack who ACTUALLY IS a progressive, but engages in centrist rhetoric on occasion to not alienate others who may agree with us on particular progressive issues, even though they disagree with us on other progressive issues.

    Republicans are trying to put Barack in the "He won't keep America safe" box, and allowing suspected terrorists' communication to go unmonitored would allow them to put Barack in that box.

    Obama realizes this, and is therefore "talking" forcefully about the need to re-authorize FISA to deal with the terrorist threat, but behind the scenes he is the KEY leader in the senate negotiating a deal to strip telecom immunity and ensure judicial oversight over ALL wiretaps of suspected terrorists.

    Simply doing a Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich maneuver of shouting down the Republicans on FISA will not keep Barack out of the "he won't keep us safe" box.

    Progressives need to be smarter and more sophisticated in understanding this reality, and use all of our energy to bash McCain, not Obama.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/02/2008 @ 7:34pm

33. And they gripe, and they kvetch, and they fume and Obama's advisors nod knowingly. And they gripe, and they kvetch, and they fume and Obama's advisors nod knowingly, And they ....

    Progressives need turn mother's picture to the wall if there is to be anything left of their self respect. Progressives need to vote for Nader.

    Posted by john lowell at 07/02/2008 @ 8:03pm

34. Posted by Maskbeta at 07/02/2008 @ 10:04pm

    Who is it that you'll be voting for Maskbeta? Want to tell us or do you concern yourself only with everyone else's preferences? Something tells me you haven't got the confidence or self-assurance to speak of your choices publically, am I right about that, little man? I mean you have a hard enough time reading, don't you? Tell us again who YOU are voting for, maskbeta? We didn't hear you the first time.

    Posted by john lowell at 07/02/2008 @ 11:17pm

35. My goodness, Obama moving to the center, who would have ever thought that would happen? Only those who saw through all his rhetoric and constant use of the words "change and hope" that's all. The media helped all of you drink the Kool Aid. You all jumped on the band wagon. Dehumanizing Senator Clinton, calling her a politican who panders, a centrist, and most of all the bashing of President Clinton and Clinton supporters. Supporters of Obama, progressives and liberals, democrats as a whole, have once again made a huge error in annointing Obama. Clinton was right on target, she had been there, done that, and knows politics, she tried her best to win the nomination, but the media, and Obama lovers would not allow her the opportunity. Now we dems will pay a heavy price. Obama fans have declared him the nominee, now see him for what he really is..."a politican" pandering and flip flopping all over the place. It's "audacity" all right, but not of hope. Oh you stupid stupid people.

    Posted by books at 07/03/2008 @ 09:27am

36. "someone like Barack who ACTUALLY IS a progressive, but engages in centrist rhetoric on occasion to not alienate others who may agree with us on particular progressive issues, even though they disagree with us on other progressive issues."

    Of course that begs the questions--since it is Obama's actions during the campaign that allow us to determine if he is actually a progressive or just another Bill Clinton with a more disciplined personal life.

    But you just keep repeating-- "I must work harder! Obama is always right!" "I must work harder! Obama is always right!"

    Posted by brunowe at 07/03/2008 @ 09:46am

37. METTEYYA -

    Rhoetoric, huh? I guess we will see how he VOTES on the bill.

    Tell us then, when is it ok to criticize Obama?

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 12:35pm

38. Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 12:35pm

    Posted by brunowe at 07/03/2008 @ 09:46am

    AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO PROGRESSIVE CAN OPENLY SOUND LIKE A PROGRESSIVE ALL THE TIME AND GET ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!

    Did you get that?

    I will be the fiercest critic of Obama if he actually governs as a middle-of-the-road centrist, and I am not the only one. I think Maya, his sister, will give him a mouthful since it was he who convinced her that she could make a difference bringing about "progressive" change!

    Maya was in Santa Cruz a week or so ago, and if you heard some of her stories about how deeply her big brother is committed to the progressive cause you would be ashamed to have been so critical of Obama before he has had a chance to govern.

    I think if you guys understood Barack's history, you would be less concerned with his occasional centrist rhetoric; but for you, he has come from nowhere so it is difficult to get past the rhetoric.

    The plain fact is that progressives are NOT the majority in America, so the ONLY way a progressive can elected president of the United States is to do exactly what Obama is doing.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 12:52pm

39. Progressive politics is in Barack's DNA, so let's unite behind him and save our bashing for McCain!

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 12:53pm

40. The plain fact is that progressives are NOT the majority in America . . .

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 12:52pm

    OK. SO what makes you so sure that Obama will go against the will of the majority once elected? He will run for re-election in 2012, right?

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 2:19pm

41. I will be the fiercest critic of Obama if he actually governs as a middle-of-the-road centrist. . . .

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 12:52pm

    One for your archives, MASK!!

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 2:19pm

42. For Pete's sake, METTEYA. You really think Obama is going to all of a sudden govern like a "true progressive" after centrist rhetoric, and most importantly any promises made along those lines?

    Come Jan. 2009 -- "Surpirse everyone! I'm really as progressive as Dennis Kucinich!!!"

    Reality check.

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 2:23pm

43. Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 2:23pm

    He will continue to use moderate "language" as president, which allows him to build consensus across the aisle on "progressive" issues like climate change, universal healthcare, and publicly financed elections.

    But progressives should not be fooled by this moderate sounding language, and this is all I am saying.

    Just go back and look at how he governed as a state senator from Illinois. There, he passed "progressive" legislation and got many Republicans to back this legislation as well.

    Obama is not going to change his stripes, but progressives need to understand how Obama has been effective in the past at getting progressive polices enacted.

    He may not "sound" like Kucinich, but even Kucinich will look at what is actually passed and grin.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/03/2008 @ 2:48pm

44. OK METT.

    I guess we will see.

    Posted by Hman23 at 07/03/2008 @ 3:00pm

45. Obama is now reported to have broken his promise on instituting a scheduled withdrawal of troops from Iraq! What other indignity can inflict on his supporters before the weekend? This guy is making Bush look like St. Francis of Assisi. Had enough? Progressives should vote for Nader!

    Posted by john lowell at 07/03/2008 @ 4:59pm

46. Posted by Maskbeta at 07/03/2008 @ 12:43pm

    "I'm voting for Obama...because we can't afford "four more years" under McCain."

    Obama just welshed on his solemn promise to extricate the troops from Iraq according to his announced timetable, Maskbeta. Is there any other issue on which this liar hasn't turned tail since the primaries? He IS McCain for all intents and purposes at this point, for goodness sake. Four years of Obama will be just like four years of McCain! They're now the same on NAFTA, the same on Iraq, the same on Iran and the Middle East, the same on FISA, I could go on and on. You're voting for McCain, silly man, only the most brain dead schlub wouldn't understand that at this juncture. Every progressive on this board needs to vote for Nadar simply to preserve their self respect. Vote Nader, Maskbeta.

    Posted by john lowell at 07/03/2008 @ 5:55pm

47. "I think if you guys understood Barack's history, you would be less concerned with his occasional centrist rhetoric; but for you, he has come from nowhere so it is difficult to get past the rhetoric."

    The point is that how he votes on FISA is part of how he governs. Furthermore, there is nothing particularly progressive on insisting on constitutional government and on the accountability of those who do an end-run around it.

    Frankly, I don't believe for a moment that you won't continue to make excuses for him if he gets elected. It will be something like "He doesn't have a progressive majority in Congress!", "He has to deal with issues differently now that he's President!", etc.

    Posted by brunowe at 07/03/2008 @ 7:07pm