The Republican National Committee, which has rarely been accused of using a precise truthmeter is accusing Jamie Rubin of lying when he suggests in a Washington Post oped that presumptive Republican presidential candidate John McCain expressed soft-on-Hamas sentiments in a conversation about the Middle East two years ago.

Rubin served as the State Department's chief spokesman during the Bill Clinton administration, so he too may have some experience bending reality to fit into diplomatic forms.

But it is hard to see how Rubin can be accused of lying when he produces tape of a Sky News interview he did with McCain in which he asks the Arizona senator whether the United States should communicate with Hamas, the radical Palestinian grouping that had recently won elections on the West Bank and the Gaza strip.

Rubin asked: "Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?"

McCain replied: "They're the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it's a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that."

That sounds an awfully lot like Democrat Barack Obama's former view that the United States should engage in diplomacy even with countries and groups it does not agree with -- a position that a history-challenged President Bush equates with appeasement and McCain derides as naive and dangerous.

Indeed, the McCain campaign has gone so far as to suggest that Hamas is rooting for Obama's election.

For the record, Obama and McCain currently express parallel positions with regard to diplomatic discussions with Hamas. They both say "no." In his more reasonable moments, McCain even says that, "It's very obvious to everyone that Senator Obama shares nothing of the values or goals of Hamas, which is a terrorist organization."

Yet, Republican operatives keep suggesting that Obama is some sort of Trogan Candidate-- theorizing wildly that the Democrat won't be able to restrain himself from engaging in the discussions with Hamas that almost two thirds of Israelis say are needed.

And the McCainiacs are furious with Rubin for suggesting that their candidate might once have had a weakness for diplomacy.

Since Rubin revealed McCain's former sentiments, the email in-boxes of political writers have been filling up with "Jamie Rubin's Lies" messages from the RNC and the McCain camp.

But email spam can't change the fact that McCain was for talking to Hamas before he was against talking to Hamas.

The truth, of course, is that neither McCain nor Obama is offering any indication at this point that they intend to engage in the sort of difficult diplomacy that might possibly -- and that possibility grows slimmer by the day -- foster a renewed Middle East peace process.

The differences between McCain and Obama with regard to the Israel-Palestine conflict are unsettling -- not in their breadth but in their narrowness.

But what is truly unsettling is the penchant of the McCain camp to try, solely for the purpose of domestic political positioning, to suggest that there is a genuine debate going on about the Middle East in particular or the use of diplomacy in general.

It is true, as Rubin argues, that, "Even if McCain had not favored doing business with Hamas two years ago, he had no business smearing Barack Obama. But given his stated position then, it is either the height of hypocrisy or a case of political amnesia for McCain to inject Hamas into the American election."

But it is truer still that McCain and Obama are singing from the same hymnal when it comes to the Middle East. And they are both off key.

Comments (67)

1. Flip

   Flop

   The election process in this United States disgusts me to no end. Is this what real "leadership" is? It seems like no candidate can just tell the truth and leave it up to the sheep. Spin, spin, lie, spin.

   Still may vote for Nader. At least the man has more integrity in his toe nails than all the operatives combined.

   Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 10:16am

2. short list of US "appeasement"

   Noriega

   Pinochet

   The Shah of Iran

   Colonel Qhadafi

   Saddam Hussein

   Kim Jung Il

   King Abdulla

   "President" Mushareff

   Kyrgystan

   Tajikistan

   Uzbekistan

   So, give me a frickin break, spin machine.

   Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 10:55am

3. Woops, left out the biggest appeasement

   The communist dictators of our Most Favored Nation

   China,

   producer of wmd's, occupier of nations, threat to neighbors, torturer of democracy advocates, slave holder and violent suppressor of freedom.

   Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 10:59am

4. This country is a goddamed joke. lock down the congress, the white house,throw the keys away and let them rot. last time i will vote.

   Posted by pachonegro at 05/17/2008 @ 11:00am

5. This country is a goddamed joke. lock down the congress, the white house,throw the keys away and let them rot. last time i will vote.

   Posted by pachonegro at 05/17/2008 @ 11:01am

6. John, please clarify...

   --But what is truly unsettling is the penchant of the McCain camp to try, solely for the purpose of domestic political positioning, that there is a genuine debate going on about the Middle East in particular or the use of diplomacy in general.--

   Thanks!

   From 2 Israels through two Americas towards 2 Palestines too...

   I can't imagine why there is so much confusion on this... ;^}

   Posted by ttr at 05/17/2008 @ 11:06am

7. Posted by pachonegro at 05/17/2008 | ignore this person

   what a bold plan.

   Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 @ 11:17am

8. producer of wmd's, occupier of nations, threat to neighbors, torturer of democracy advocates, slave holder and violent suppressor of freedom.

   Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 | ignore this person

   this is US.

   Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 @ 11:19am

9. Here's the video....and "Weather Vane" McCain really steps in his own doo-doo-

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaSS1JawR78

   Posted by Mask at 05/17/2008 @ 11:58am

10. Posted by ibbleblibble at 05/17/2008

    McCain doing the She-Hag from "Army of Darkness"...

    "I'll swallow your soul!"

    Obama doing Ash...

    "Come get some!"

    Posted by Mask at 05/17/2008 @ 1:04pm

11. You neocon re-pukes need to read Larisa Alexandrovna`s letter to your Facist leader The Shrub.She tells it like it is and all of you that voted for this corrupt man should be jailed along side him for War crimes and other crimes committed under his regime.This man is a piece of garbage who does not have a heart or a soul.He should be impeached ASAP.As for his trying to derail the Democrats about being soft and naieve on terror, let me tell you that talking and diplomatic relations do work and the re-pukes and the old man are going to lose in November to Brack Obama and his team.As for me i am sick and tired of the warmongering and fearmongering that the re-pukes are still using and it is not working anymore on anyone in this country.

    Posted by ams@50 at 05/17/2008 @ 1:42pm

12. The isolationist to whom the Shrub is talking about was a re-puke......

    Posted by ams@50 at 05/17/2008 @ 1:44pm

13. At least once a month, Nichols posts an outright lie about a conservative. Here is the topper for May.

    I read your article 3 times and I still can't find the quote where McCain denies he was ever reasonble on the ME.

    Then when you get into the body of his argument, you find that he finds both McCain and Obama distasteful to his liking on the ME. One would think that a different article header such as:

    "No difference between Obama and McCain on resolving ME issues".

    But journalism 101 which the Nation writers deny profusely, but practice with great regularity states that the headline should be sizzle-even if the article doesn't reflect the headline.

    And the bottom line is that this is another attempt by the Israel hating left at the Nation to push for the destruction of Israel.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008 @ 1:46pm

14. LUVVY, Barr is your man.

    Eschew the liberal elitist McCain, he is not your kind.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 1:59pm

15. And the bottom line is that this is another attempt by the Israel hating left at the Nation to push for the destruction of Israel.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008

    Fine journalistic reporting. It is the only conclusion to reach. Israel-haters, 'Merica-haters.

    [Rapture Index

    The prophetic speedometer of end-time activity

    Updated May 12, 2008]

    Fasten your seat belts Jews/Goim and other non-Beleivers!!

    [Rapture Index 170!!!]

    They have not added in Gods wrath at the Chinese homosexuals yet. That could send it into Nascar speeds.

    Sounds like some librool hogwash, but it is The Truth and The Word

    04 Unemployment: The latest figures show a deteriorating job market. 05 Inflation: Consumer prices continue to soar. 06 Interest Rates: The Federal Reserve lowers rates by 1/2 of a percent. 07 The Economy A number economic reports point to the risk of recession. 08 Oil Supply/Price Oil surges on news of lower inventories. 09 Debt and Trade: The U.S. federal debt reaches the $9 trillion mark. 10 Financial unrest The U.S. stock market has has a sharp declined.

    and this Gem: 33 Beast Government The EU pens a new treaty.

    Keep your eyes out for colored flying horseys.

    ["Tribulation" is the term for the general era of God's judgment on a rebellious world of earth-dwellers. It is a time that will begin with Antichrist signing a seven-year covenant guaranteeing Israel's peace and security (Dan. 9:27). This era is kicked off, symbolically, beginning with the first horseman of the Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1).]

    could Condi Rice be the Anti-Christ? Could the Roadmap be from Satan's glovebox?

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 2:19pm

16. LUVVY, Barr is your man.

    Eschew the liberal elitist McCain, he is not your kind.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008

    Barr is a Buchannon style isolationist. I wouldn't vote for him and I doubt he gets the Liberatarian party nomination.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008 @ 2:26pm

17. [well, this idiotic notion that upon assuming office obama would without careful preparation, without sending out feelers, without consulting with our allies,] ...

    is what the neo-cons did. So they expect others to operate in a similar fashion. Guns a-blazin', hubris a-flyin', body parts smolderin'

    Have any of the mongers shown their face around the Pimps of the Pentagon page yet?

    .....

    Well, just our good friend from Bellvue, Frank-the-over-continent

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 2:30pm

18. Then who does that leave you, Larry?

    It seems "the mainstream" has left you paddle-less.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 2:31pm

19. Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008

    Actually there was no lie then. It's true it's just Obama has the same stance.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/17/2008 @ 2:39pm

20. And the bottom line is that this is another attempt by the Israel hating left at the Nation to push for the destruction of Israel.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008

    People who seek to find a peaceful solution are not anti-Israel they are pro-peace. Unlike the warhawks you support. Maybe you should stop spouting bullshit LV lying is a sin.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/17/2008 @ 2:43pm

21. What if the world Caliphate is actually the result desired from The Rapture?

    woof! The neo-cons will be have some 'splainin to do then!

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 2:45pm

22. Maybe you should stop spouting bullshit LV lying is a sin.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/17/2008

    so are

    Pride

    Gluttony

    Murder

    but I think it is like a buffet, you can pick and choose, leaving the green Jell-O/durian salad untouched.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 2:47pm

23. Then who does that leave you, Larry?

    It seems "the mainstream" has left you paddle-less.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008

    I plan to vote for McCain. but I have voted 3rd party before without hesitation.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008 @ 4:03pm

24. Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008

    Might that have been the American Independent Party?

    Posted by Sorelish at 05/17/2008 @ 4:27pm

25. [I have voted 3rd party before without hesitation.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008 ]

    good for you!!

    We need more of that.

    [I plan to vote for McCain. ]

    ooohh. Voting for a flip-flopping liberal! A guy that would work with Hamas, believes in Global Warming and surrounds himself with lobbyists that have been employed by dictators and slave shop owners.

    Man, that's gotta sting just a little, no?

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 5:24pm

26. [producer of wmd's, occupier of nations, threat to neighbors, torturer of democracy advocates, slave holder and violent suppressor of freedom.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 | ignore this person

    this is US.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008]

    As much as some would like that, we are not close to Chinas' capacity to cheapen life. We have moved in that direction for 7 years, though. Let us hope that things will change for the better.

    eeww, I used hope and change in the same sentence. Must be a 'Merica-hater Borg.

    " If 6 turned out to be nine, I don't mind, I don't mind. "-Jimi

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 5:28pm

27. McCain replied: "They're the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it's a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that."

    ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    THAT! guy (whoever he is) should be president!

    Saturday, May 17, 2008 5:46:23 PM

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 5:40pm

28. And the bottom line is that this is another attempt by the Israel hating left at the Nation to push for the destruction of Israel.

    Posted by lvliberty1

    kill the jews!

    kill the jews!

    (just kidding, nsa - jews rock!)

    Saturday, May 17, 2008 5:51:35 PM

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 5:45pm

29. What if the world Caliphate is actually the result desired from The Rapture?

    Posted by crabwalk

    i'm sure gonna miss beer........

    nothing personal, god.

    Saturday, May 17, 2008 5:54:46 PM

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 5:48pm

30. green Jell-O/durian salad

    ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    mmmmm.

    pig skin and cows hooves.......

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 5:50pm

31. pig skin and cows hooves.......

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 | ignore this person

    skin of roast suckling pig, yum. Patchah, (cow's feet) a jewish delicacy

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 @ 7:10pm

32. Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/17/2008

    LVLIB, is it fair, since you say "the Left wants to destroy Israel"...

    to say you on the Right want to nuke the other Arab countries and destroy them once and for all...to PROTECT Israel?

    If not...why not? Seems YOU say more of "Dresdenizing" places and "total war"...than the Left says anything about doing ANYTHING to Israel, except return it to borders it had before 1968.

    Posted by Mask at 05/17/2008 @ 7:43pm

33. This is US, this is China ... US, well, we can blame AIPAC, at least since '92 or so . What's our banker's excuse for behaving so badly?

    Hamas can always say it's defending its people & shrinking land that are under direct attack ... who in Iraq attacked the US? who in Tibet attacked China?

    Empires fall, be they large or small. Peoples persevere.

    As for Nov in US ... voting a 3rd candidate? there you go GOPers, Ron Paul awaits you.

    Posted by sloper at 05/17/2008 @ 8:17pm

34. Irony of Israel not wanting to give Palestinians citizenship, to be turned into an "apartheid state" ?

    Deep irony.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/17/2008 @ 8:17pm

35. Posted by Mask at 05/17/2008

    He doesn't realize if you nuke everything around Israel you will destroy Israel too in the process. Those desert winds move fast and strong and radiation moves well.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/17/2008 @ 8:22pm

36. neutron bomb.

    it's clean.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 8:44pm

37. China occupied Tibet over 50 years ago. it's a little late to start making a fuss now.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 @ 9:18pm

38. <i>A front page editorial in Al-Gomhouria, another Egyptian state-owned daily, described Bush as "a failed president who delivers nothing but a lousy speech."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 10:30pm

39. the Whigs try to make engagement the same as appeasement. of course that's a lie. Nixon engaged China, and Reagan in his second term engaged the Soviet Union. and that is how the cold war was ended.

    the absurdity of their position is striking. because someone somewhere appeased someone, any kind of negotiation is branded appeasement. it's just another big lie, soon to be relegated to thetrash heap of history, along with the Republican party. the next election will be a bloodbath for the Whigs. and rightly so.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 @ 11:24pm

40. Great title Mr. Nichols.

    Posted by winyahn at 05/17/2008 @ 11:36pm

41. Nixon engaged China

    Posted by emile duBois

    but it was bill who married them!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/17/2008 @ 11:39pm

42. "... if you nuke everything around Israel you will destroy Israel too in the process. Those desert winds move fast and strong and radiation moves well." Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/17/2008 |

    Every Israeli military recruit, male as well as female, swears an oath at Masada, the scene of a vast suicide of Hebrew insurgents battling a Roman occupation nearly 2000 years ago. If Israel uses enough of its nukes, and Israel suffers accordingly, this is the message Israel wants its people and all others to know: suicide is preferable to defeat. We are prepared to kill almost all of you, even if it means killing almost all of us.

    An approach to modern diplomacy that fits well with US Christian evangelicals' hopes for the end of the world & their rapture up into eternal bliss.

    John McCain's pastor is in agreement.

    Posted by sloper at 05/18/2008 @ 05:09am

43. [China occupied Tibet over 50 years ago. it's a little late to start making a fuss now.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/17/2008 ]

    I could not disagree more. Do you now how Tibetans are treated if they speak their minds?

    Now is the perfect time to fuss. China wants to show it's economic might during the Olympics. Lets make them show the whole deal, torture, environmental degradation on a massive scale and virtual slave conditions for those that are building the Olympic stadiums.

    [This report evaluates China's compliance with the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (Torture Convention)[1] with respect to Tibet. It concludes that China continues to engage in widespread and systematic violations of the Torture Convention in Tibet. China has also failed to make genuine progress in the areas of concern noted by this Committee in its 1996 Concluding Observations

    The widespread use of torture in Tibet is corroborated by numerous reports based on interviews with Tibetan refugees who suffered torture.

    TGIE urges the Committee to consider the widespread and systematic use of torture in Tibet in the context of China's illegal invasion of Tibet in 1949, its division of historical Tibetan territory, and its failure to accord Tibetans their right to self-determination.Extensive studies by the International Commission of Jurists (ICJ), and a number of preeminent international legal scholars affirm that Tibet was a sovereign nation when the People's Liberation Army of China invaded in 1949.[6] This act of aggression therefore violated international law, and Tibet currently remains a de jure state under illegal foreign occupation.]

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 08:09am

44. [The absurdity, the irony, is sometimes too much for me to consider. We are an island and a people with a history firmly rooted in the inhumanity and horror of slavery - yet we ignore the world's largest system of slave labour camps and get down on our hands and knees in gratitude when the Chinese Communists throw some inflatable boats at our Coast Guard.

    for filthy money we are willing to ignore the largest slave-labour organisation on the planet: the Laogai slave labour camps of Communist China.

    Meet Pastor Cai Zhuohua, who spent the last three years in a slave labour camp making official footballs for the 2008 Olympics. His crime? Unauthorized possession of bibles.

    It is outrageous that of this country named Barbados continues to fawn over the Chinese Communists.]

    http://barbadosfreepress.wordpress.com/2008/04/07/chinas-olympic-soccer- balls-made-by-slave-labour-but-barbados-doesnt-care/

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 08:14am

45. [The Chinese Ministry of Labor admitted that the child labor situation was very serious throughout the country. It stated that exploiting child laborers has become a common occurrence. In some coastal areas and particular economic zones, such as Fujian and Guangdong, as well as Zhejiang, Sichuan, and Hubei, there are reported to be approximately four to five million-child laborers under the age of 16. Child laborers under 12 years of age are also found in Whenzhou and in some areas of Guangdong and Hainan. The children usually work 10 to 14 hours a day with half the wages of an adult.

    The United States imports of pyrotechnics and explosives from China is approaching $1 billion. Children are working in the fireworks industry. A recent report described an explosion at a fireworks factory in Hebei that killed one child and injured 34 schoolgirls ranging from 11 to 13 years of age. Investigators found that the school children had been forced by their teachers to work for slave wages making firecrackers. The children were promised 20 fen, 2 cents, for making one long braid of firecrackers, but in reality were paid three fen, 0.3 cents. In March 2001, 42 people, most of them third and fourth-graders, were killed in an explosion at a school. The school blow up because the Chinese use young students to make fireworks in order to keep the price lower than their competitors. The younger students are required to assemble at least 1,000 fireworks a day while the older children, fifth-graders, are required to make ten times that many

    Imports of apparel and textiles from China to the U.S. market are reaching beyond $4.5 billion each year. It was reported that China's number one textile firm at Qingpu employs children aged 12 to 15 years old that recruited were from the neighboring province of Anhui. In Chungsan City, a foreign textile enterprise employed about 160 child laborers and a 14 year old was killed after her hair became tangled in her machine. Journalists also found 12 year-old children sleeping two to three in a bed in dorms and working 15 hours a day for $10 per month ]

    http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

    APPEASEMENT for cheap crap.

    Sickening, if you have any morals at all.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 08:22am

46. [The Chinese Ministry of Labor admitted that the child labor situation was very serious throughout the country. It stated that exploiting child laborers has become a common occurrence. In some coastal areas and particular economic zones, such as Fujian and Guangdong, as well as Zhejiang, Sichuan, and Hubei, there are reported to be approximately four to five million-child laborers under the age of 16. Child laborers under 12 years of age are also found in Whenzhou and in some areas of Guangdong and Hainan. The children usually work 10 to 14 hours a day with half the wages of an adult.

    The United States imports of pyrotechnics and explosives from China is approaching $1 billion. Children are working in the fireworks industry. A recent report described an explosion at a fireworks factory in Hebei that killed one child and injured 34 schoolgirls ranging from 11 to 13 years of age. Investigators found that the school children had been forced by their teachers to work for slave wages making firecrackers. The children were promised 20 fen, 2 cents, for making one long braid of firecrackers, but in reality were paid three fen, 0.3 cents. In March 2001, 42 people, most of them third and fourth-graders, were killed in an explosion at a school. The school blow up because the Chinese use young students to make fireworks in order to keep the price lower than their competitors. The younger students are required to assemble at least 1,000 fireworks a day while the older children, fifth-graders, are required to make ten times that many

    Imports of apparel and textiles from China to the U.S. market are reaching beyond $4.5 billion each year. It was reported that China's number one textile firm at Qingpu employs children aged 12 to 15 years old that recruited were from the neighboring province of Anhui. In Chungsan City, a foreign textile enterprise employed about 160 child laborers and a 14 year old was killed after her hair became tangled in her machine. Journalists also found 12 year-old children sleeping two to three in a bed in dorms and working 15 hours a day for $10 per month

    Slave labor exists in our world today. It is not some far off problem that the people of America can do nothing about. Americans must education themselves on the issue and learn how to make a difference. These children are in need of help.]

    http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57

    APPEASEMENT for cheap crap.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 08:24am

47. and Tibet currently remains a de jure state under illegal foreign occupation.]

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 | ignore this person

    so does Iraq. we have no moral high ground from which to lecture the Chinese. perhaps we can solve that riddle before we turn our attention to the Chinese.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008 @ 09:49am

48. crabwalk

    why don't you boycott Chinese made goods? and convince all your friends and neighbors to do the same?

    and while you're at it, American goods could be boycotted as well, as long as certain corporations are reaping war profits.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008 @ 10:01am

49. but there's nothing we can do........

    (well, SOMEONE will come along and say that)

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/18/2008 @ 10:12am

50. well, for one thing, you can make sure that no republican is ever again elected. that would be a fine start.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008 @ 11:05am

51. it is a fine impulse for an American to want to right every injustice in the world. or is it?

    it has led to the insane notion that America is the world's police man.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008 @ 11:09am

52. Only the Israeli Conservatives(Likud Party) and the re-pukes here don`t want to Parlay with Hamas because they would rather perpetuate this Illegal occupation of Palestine. It seems to me that the non-Likud party jews want to sit and work this out with a mojrity of non-Hamas Palestinians, but the Likud Party keeps opening up more and more illegal settlements so nothing will get resolved until the conservatives let go of power and get non-agessive party to discuss the problems that have left mllions of Palestinians in refugee camps that have deploreable living conditions.Until a peace process and reconciliatory means are on the table and actually determined, nothing will happen and everything will be status quo.The The Balfour Declaration of 1917 (dated November 2, 1917) was a classified formal statement of policy by the British government stating that the British government "view with favour" the establishment in Palestine of "a national home for the Jewish people" on the conditions that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" or "the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".This is what should have happened,one year later in a celebration parade the flag of Israel was hoisted up against a joint christian-Muslim organization that was protesting because they knew what was in the works for the future.

    Posted by ams@50 at 05/18/2008 @ 11:14am

53. Posted by ams@50 at 05/18/2008 | ignore this person

    the entire region is STILL in the death throes of 1917, give or take a year or two.

    there was never a state called Palestine. never.

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008 @ 11:39am

54. "it is a fine impulse for an American to want to right every injustice in the world. or is it"?

    "it has led to the insane notion that America is the world's police man".

    Posted by emile duBois at 05/18/2008

    It is called NEOCOSERVATIVE and it is a deplorable DOGMA that has infiltrated America`s political arena and it`s sole purpose is to perpetuate WAR without ever having to bother with DIPLOMATIC RELATIONS because they are WARMONGERS. It`s a shame the people of Israel can`t see BUSH for what he really is. Please read Larisa Alexandrovna`s article in Huffinton post in a letter she sent to Bush.

    Posted by ams@50 at 05/18/2008 @ 11:41am

55. there was never a state called Palestine. never.

    Posted by emile duBois

    perhaps not, but people still lived there.

    and now, some of the "lucky ones" make pizza in canada (for example) instead of harvesting olives.

    ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    A granfalloon is "a false karass, [...] a seeming team that [is] meaningless in terms of the ways God gets things done." Examples of granfalloons are "the Communist party, the Daughters of the American Revolution, the General Electric Company, the International Order of Odd Fellows -- and any nation, anytime, anywhere.

    ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

    A karass is a "team [of people] that do[es] God's Will without ever discovering what they are doing". [ 1 ] Humanity is organized into many such teams. One can try to discover "the limits of [one's] karass and the nature of the work God Almighty has had it do ... but such investigations are bound to be incomplete."

    -- bokonon

    Posted by frosty zoom at 05/18/2008 @ 1:34pm

56. [ why don't you boycott Chinese made goods? and convince all your friends and neighbors to do the same?] emile dubois

    I try the best I can to do both. It can be quite a challenge to totally boycott Chinese goods, they are beyond ubiquitous. I also try to buy as local as possible. I think we ought to boycott the Olympics. It is really about nationalism more than athletics.

    My other tact is to hound my reps constantly about the triple standards being applied by our foreign policy.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 2:21pm

57. So, Emile, I would like to encourage you to be aware of where your goods are coming from and who is being paid to produce them. If they are being made by child labor I would expect you to make the right decision.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/18/2008 @ 2:28pm

58. Might that have been the American Independent Party?

    Posted by Sorelish at 05/17/2008

    No, the US Taxpayers Party, now known as the Constitution Party.

    A typical leftist bigoted assumption that I must be racist because I'm conservative.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/18/2008 @ 4:24pm

59. not racist... just scared and ignorant.. stay on topic for this thread.. Mcaain flip flopped... its not a lie... its for all to see ... you tube..msm...

    1 yr ago there eouldnt be a 'true' conservative that would have voted for mccain.. now they rally around him as he sucks up and 'appeases' his right wing overlords and religious nutjobs on the fringe of a rational society ... sad...

    if any of you 'conservatives' had any scruples, you would boycott the polls on election day... sit home in your bunkers with your houses wrapped in the Home depot 'cbrd kit' (69.95 plus tax) and read your bibles...

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 05/18/2008 @ 6:05pm

60. A typical leftist bigoted assumption that I must be racist because I'm conservative.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/18/2008

    Does anyone else find it funny that LV just made a bigoted statement in order to insult someone for making a bigoted assumption. I guess his hypocrisy has no ends.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/18/2008 @ 9:43pm

61. Does anyone else find it funny that LV just made a bigoted statement in order to insult someone for making a bigoted assumption. I guess his hypocrisy has no ends.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/18/2008

    What nonsense. Tell me what was bigoted about my response.

    You have a leftist blogger asking if I voted for a racist candidate just because I am conservative and said I have voted 3rd party the past. Somehow I didn't think of you as supporting bigotry on either end of the political spectrum

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/18/2008 @ 11:10pm

62. Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/18/2008

    On the contrary. I wasn't necessarily inferring that any motivation to vote AIP was based on race. Perhaps you were receiving a subliminal message from that party to "seal the borders". Not our national borders. A message to seal the borders of your mind.

    Posted by Sorelish at 05/19/2008 @ 12:46am

63. [What nonsense. Tell me what was bigoted about my response.]

    "typical leftist"?

    Remember that ass-u-mption thing.

    Posted by crabwalk at 05/19/2008 @ 07:19am

64. Curious why the Right doesn't think McCain, who has "sold them out" on global warming, immigration, campaign finance reform, Gitmo, etc....

    wouldn't do it on Iraq????

    Posted by Mask at 05/19/2008 @ 11:55am

65. "One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. "

    "A typical leftist bigoted assumption that I must be racist because I'm conservative."

    That is a broad generalization of a group of people you don't like. you are basically saying all or most of the left is bigoted. Therefor THAT is a bigoted statement. Argue it all you want but when you generalize and entire group then you are making a bigoted statement.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/19/2008 @ 12:02pm

66. Somehow I didn't think of you as supporting bigotry on either end of the political spectrum

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 05/18/2008

    I don't support bigotry. That's why I called his assumption bigoted also. However I can't decide if he meant it because of the racist candidate or because of what they stand for ie. taxes and other things. I still called him out on his bigoted assumption. Don't try to turn everything into a moral battle of you being morally better than me LV. Don't be deceived into thinking because you are pastor that makes you superior to me. After all priests used their power to molest children just like any other disgusting person could. So you are not morally superior because of the robe you wear on Sundays.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 05/19/2008 @ 12:06pm

67. It's rather curious to me how so many present day rightists disavow their nefarious pasts. The indiscriminate branding of people as commies & fellow travelers, the vicious jokes, etc. I happened to be present at the Republican National Convention in 1964. Somebody in the crowd screamed out, "bomb the poverty pocket" & a great roar of approval was returned. Of course the speaker urged moderation on hearing this, but with a smile. All these present day references by repubs to JFK, MLK & others in a positive light are pure bunk. Ask people who were there. Any questions as to the reasons for my presence at this event can be answered as follows. It was purely anthropological. Oh yes, I forgot the liberal republicans, My, my.

    Posted by Sorelish at 05/19/2008 @ 10:08pm